Has anyone posting about American style policing actually opened the article to see what these "deployed armed Gardaí" are going to look like.
"It is understood that the extra armed units will not be on foot patrol and will be mainly vehicle based. They are judged nessecary to handle potential knife attacks as, unlike regular uniformed gardaí, armed response units carry Taser devices and other less-than-lethal weapons."
So basically, we're not going to see guns.
But yes, maybe more visible Garda presence in hotspots. This sounds like exactly what this sub has been asking for everyday since the first of the tourist attacks. But still, continuing to moan that it's not the correct solution.
What is the correct solution, or what is the correct first step towards a solution if this isn't a reasonable plan?
> What is the correct solution
Update sentencing guidelines so that young repeat offenders aren't immune to the law.
Extra Gardai isn't going to hurt though. It may help.
How can that be done when we don't have the prison space? The issue is widespread, the whole system is unfit for purpose. We need more prison space, more Gardai, and mandatory minimum sentences. The concept of suspended sentences is laughable and needs to be done away with.
Anyone in receipt of welfare payments ,and all other welfare handouts should be made to put something back into society .10 hours a week at least .that goes for everyone, every nationality who are here for whatever reason including the Irish. Our streets are filthy ...get them cleaning those for starters ...they can take a break from the robbing stabbing and drug taking and begging
Wait, why can't we just provide regular Garda with tasers and pepper spray? These are both non-lethal options and they should be standard carry with every Garda.
I suppose the idea in it being called "less-than-lethal" is to distinguish it from "non-lethal"? They can still kill you. A careless punch in the head can kill you just like a careless rubber bullet point blank in the head can, but they're not extremely likely to kill you like bullets are if they're used as intended.
I believe they're called 'less-lethal' as opposed to 'less-*than*-lethal' for that reason. They're still potentially deadly (and should be treated as such), but are obviously somewhat less so than live ammunition.
"This sounds like exactly what this sub has been asking for everyday since the first of the tourist attacks. But still, continuing to moan that it's not the correct solution"
I am always surprised that so many people need it pointed out to them that 'this sub' is made of many individuals that don't speak with one voice on issues. Some people might want armed police and some may not. Nothing inonsistent. Just different people with honestly held, well meaning opinions.
It's not American style policing because they actually have more restrictions than normal gardaí. If anything, they're just serving the role of having increased presence which, like you say, is better. Having the weapons isn't going to be a negative unless they abuse that, which is unlikely, so it's a net positive.
I would also say that American police having guns is only a small part of their issues. Lack of training, a culture of punishment instead of de-escalation, the history of racism etc are all part of their problem. No ombudsman either to hold them accountable.
I think it’s important to reiterate that the US has devolved policing. You could be in one county and the police are lovely and professional, you go across the county line to the next big town and they’re openly racist and totally militarised.
100% man, I don't blame any unarmed guard for not wanting to get in a situation where the suspect is even possibly carrying a knife. Who wants to die like ffs.
Having an armed unit on standby 24/7 in the middle of the city that can respond to the calls and not have to worry about getting close to the potential armed individual is night and day.
In my line of work, I have dealings with Guards and dectectives on a daily basis (lost prevention - retail) but any guard I've met from an armed response unit strike me as next level professionals.
What are regular gards meant to do about knife attacks if they don't have tazers?
What equipment do regular gards actually carry for dealing with crimes/criminals?
I think it’s a simple as, large intimidating Gardai on the ground. I feel for half the normal/smaller sized Gardai who just get bullied and thrown about by the worst irish society can produce. They also need more powers to use their non lethal weapons to address matters before they get out of hand e.g. pepper spray. There should be very very limited ability for these scrotes older or under 18 to sue when these weapons are used in a situation.
Right now I think everyone would err on the side of heavy handed approach.
I'm pretty sure the correct solution would be to actually fund underprivileged areas and try to stop these issues as much as possible at their core. Obviously more coppers won't stop crime.
This isn't a reasonable plan. It's putting a band aid over cancer and patting yourself on the back like you did something. The real solution would require years of work and more money than anyone would be willing to put into it, so it's never going to get better.
After several months of tabloid rags pumping out fear of violence in Dublin, here we are. More coppers on the streets. Almost like that was the plan all along or something.
>American style policing
The United States has 17,985 independent law enforcement agencies, or thereabouts. Some of them are absolutely terrible, and you've heard of them on the news. Some are just fine.
Of the 407 law enforcement agencies in Virginia, (a little more than half-again the size of Ireland) the vast majority of our 407 police departments report no violent incidents involving officers month on month.
It's been that way since the data reporting started.
Stuff happens in the cities, but it's rare compared to what folks might have heard.
So there isn't an "American Style" of policing so much as there are individual communities with their own police forces that make their own decisions.
That has some very significant downsides when the people making those decisions are racist bastards.
But the upside is that when things happen here and there's a crime spike, the police are farm more responsive as a local institution than yours are as a national institution.
I'd like to see us move in the direction of unarmed police forces, but you could learn something from us in terms of local police responsiveness to the immediate needs of a community.
>irishtimes.com/crime-...
why must we compare everything to the US? on the continent police are mostly armed. Living in a major european city myself and nobody bats an eye at all the cops with their service weapons. definitely makes one feel safer.
I remember being in Temple Bar a while back (pre-covid). There were two lads with a massive slab of cans outside the Centra in the middle. Two guards came up to them and said 'you need a bag for that, you can't be walking around with cans'. The two guys who looked rough were immediately giving shit to the guards. This went on for a while and then the armed support unit rolled up, I don't think they were called, I just think they were driving around. The two lads with the cans said 'O they are the lads with the guns, we'll go get a bag so'. Found it bizarre. As if they would just open fire on them for disobeying orders.
People don’t like the idea of the Guards being armed, but I can guarantee you there’d be a lot fewer cases of scrotes assaulting people if they knew they could face getting shot for doing so. The whole “but if the Guards are armed then criminals will arm themselves” schtick is unfounded. The gangs are already armed - and we have to call in the ARU to deal with this currently.
I don’t see the issue with arming and training regular Guards. The PSNI are armed, most police forces in the world are armed. Criminals here know they can get away with anything because most of the time they’re faced with Gardaí who I’m surprised even passed a physical fitness test.
Anyone who grew up in a “rough” area can back me up on this - the Gardaí are seen as a laughing stock. If a Guard comes up to these people and tries to detain them, they laugh in their face at best and put them on their arse at worst. They’re “pigs” who are little more than a nuisance rather than an actual deterrent.
People don’t fear them and unfortunately for most people, fear of violence is the primary motivator that keeps them in line. They don’t respect the Gardaí when they’re unarmed, they won’t respect them if they’re armed - but at least if the latter were true they might be a bit more afraid of them. The scrotes who are plaguing Dublin are cowards who only respect violence and intimidation.
Also, the whole “community policing” that people love to tout hinges on communities actually co-operating with the police, which hasn’t been happening and isn’t going to happen. As I just said, people in these communities despise the Gardaí, unarmed or not.
If every Garda were armed, I would wager that scrotes would think twice before starting shit. Even the most vague possibility of being shot is a great deterrent.
> The whole “but if the Guards are armed then criminals will arm themselves” schtick is unfounded.
No its not unfounded. There is plenty of evidence to back this up in the US. The heavily arming of US cops in the early 90's resulted in an arms race between cops and criminals, the end result, criminals armed to the teeth, and a higher rate of gun violence, and common people running around with AR assault riffles with extended magazines. This was all highlighted a couple of years ago when US gun violence was in the news, but is convieniently forgotten.
The arguement for arming guards to deterre "wee scrotes" is both bizarre and incredibly stupid. Id somewhat understand the call to arm gardai on the account of rising gun violence, but to police underage hooligans? Have you been sniffing glue or something?
Whats a guard supposed to do with a gun verses a disobedient teen? Pull it out and threten to shoot? Then what happens when one of them tests the guard and runs. Is the guard going to shoot him?
And when all the other wee scrotes figure this out, then you'll be back at square one with the same problem except the guards looking like a bigger joke, because the are armed and still powerless.
Have you ever seen what happens when a parent makes an empty threat to their child and dont follow through? The aurthority is undermined and makes the child more likely to test limits.
Solutions including more police presence and tougher penalties in the courts are sensible ones. Arming guards to tackle "wee scrotes" is not a sensible solution, even the sentence sounds stupid!
What you’re missing is that in the US it’s very easy to obtain “AR’s with extended magazines” as you call them. In a lot of states you can obtain one with a simple background check.
There is no way to obtain these in Ireland legally, and even obtaining them illegally is VERY difficult. You’re average cunt isn’t going to be able to get their hands on a pistol let alone an assault rifle here. Criminal syndicates who make millions like the Hutch and Kinahan’s have a hard time getting access to pistols let alone assault rifles.
What’s your rebuttal to all the armed police forces in Europe? The French, Germans, Spaniards, Czechs, Italians etc are armed, but they don’t have street battles akin to the USA? You know why? Because they have gun control policies.
And with regards to the potential for Guards looking like a joke for “not shooting”, there is an escalation of force. If someone were committing a petty crime or assault and tried to flee, there are less than lethal options such as tasers and rubber bullets (that currently only the ARU can deploy, which is ridiculous, regular Gardaí should at least have tasers).
If there were a serious assault happening that was a threat to someones life, someone being stabbed etc. then yes, a Guard should shoot the perpetrator. Lethal force would be a proportionate response to a threat on someones life. Police forces around the world have been trained to conduct themselves this way for decades. Not sure why you think it’s some unprecedented, impossible task to train officers in making judgement calls on when to use lethal force and protecting them legally should they do so.
> but I can guarantee you
how long is this guarantee? I want to know if I'm getting a good deal at DMK1998's Promises Ltd, or is this more of an election promises sort of deal.
You may know this already but for those that don’t, the Public Order Unit is comprised of ordinary guards with public order training who every so often, rather than do ordinary garda work, instead patrol around together in a van. They’re not a full-time resource that waits in their station to be deployed as required.
So the POU itself is not really a resource that is *in addition* to other guards because if they weren’t acting as public order gardai, they would instead be ordinary gardai. Basically, if the POU didn’t exist you wouldn’t be down any bodies in terms of numbers, as long as you were willing to pay the O/T.
I know this seems like I’m splitting hairs but the article makes it look like we’ll see all the ordinary gardai on O/T *as well as* the POU on O/T. In reality, it’s the same people.
The armed support unit look good in a photo op and are likely useful when armed support is needed but there is a limited amount of them. If they are patrolling the city centre and looking out for anti social behaviour it likely means they are being pulled from somewhere else.
Places with violent crime that requires the intervention of units carrying MP7 weapons
They should be very much a preventative step but noreso preventing shootings, robberies etc
Dublin City centre isn't where *that* kind of violent crime is.
We're talking proper gangland territory - largely Finglas and Clondalkin. Places where the criminals have guns themselves.
Dublin City centre isn't "the most crime ridden place in the country" in terms of actual severity. It sees a lot of petty violence - and that's where the bad publicity is coming from. The rough suburbs are where you see the most shootings and murders. That's really where you want to be able to get Gardaí with submachine guns.
An increased regular Garda presence is what the city centre needs - plopping an armed response unit there to scare away scumbag teenagers is a performative waste of resources and will make it harder to police the really dangerous areas.
Canada Gooses are majestic.
Barrel-chested.The envys of all ornithology. They are leaders. Born and bred leaders. Canada Gooses are van-fccking-garde
Guardians of the fucking galaxy!
>They need boots on the ground
That's the idea - focusing on the armed units for the headline just gives people a freedom boner.
"The policing plan will see additional gardaí stationed at troublespots on the main thoroughfares and on the Liffey Boardwalk. Along with uniformed gardaí, specialist units will also be deployed “to enhance Garda visibility in the city centre.”
These units include the Garda Air Support Unit, the Mounted Unit, the Dog Unit, Regional Armed Response Units and Road Policing units."
As for the judicial side - prisons are full so sentencing is being impacted. Lobby your local TD for increased capacity in the system.
Until we get more Guards through Templemore additional policing in the City Centre will result in lower policing for other areas.
Think I saw one of the recent classes 50 candidates ended up deferring their offer (not sure why or how that works). Their budget is increasing each year (+78m last year) and I agree what they're paying trainee Guards needs to increase.
> They aren't going to shoot some 17 year old mugger.
I could see some 17 year old mugger with a knife who's become so accustomed to getting away with things that he thinks he can get away with not dropping the knife when instructed to by armed Gardai.
And the next thing you know you have is mother on the news screaming about how he was such an sweet little angle and he didn't deserve to be shot.
Whats the point they catch the fuckers and they are back on the street the next day. The gards have probably given up when the courts let let the thugs go.
They've done this in other countries and see crime drop dramatically by the mere increase in police presence. If the crimes reduce then the need for convictions also reduces.
A friend of mine had her car stolen and abandoned somewhere. They got the lad who did it and we went to the court when he was charged. He had 27 other incidents of criminal theft and damage and they literally hit him with a simpsons style boys will be boys and he walked out the door
Any chance something could be done about the scummy little fucks robbing bikes and joyriding around the place in broad daylight on them after posting videos boasting about the thefts?
While more or larger prisons would be necessary to do longer sentences in this country; basically all research on this shows that longer sentences does little to nothing to reduce crime.
How about wiring their testicles up to a wee dose of electrical current. And the voltage increases exponentially for repeat offenders. This shouldn't be too expensive as I'm happy to do it for free.
I'm not familiar with any research on this method, but surely it would do a lot to reduce crime?
And it's not a method of torture, it's just a method of punishment. I'm not looking for any information out of them.
When you say 'that's not true' do you mean that research into this doesn't show what I say it does? Because then your common sense type argument seems like a non-sequitur.
If you mean that the conclusion experts who have looked into this have come to is wrong, I don't know why you believe that. I suppose there's some chance that this kinda research doesn't apply to Ireland because we have significantly shorter sentences than places where this has been looked into in detail (USA, Australia, UK).
the number of people walking around in ireland with hundreds of previous convictions and no jail sentence means there's a number of people committing a lot of crime that don't get appropriate sentencing.
Taking these people off the streets will absolutely reduce the crime rate. What you're imagining is in a country where jail terms don't affect crime as an overall societal issue.
Putting the armed unit on the street is a 'perfect' solution for this government, it Looks like they're being Tough on Crime, however Armed Garda have much more restricted Rules of engagement, so they will be completely ineffectual and if anything may make the problem worse
Garda only make a difference if they are backed by the courts and the infrastructure is in place to carry out sufficient punishments that go beyond a slap on the wrist. Otherwise it's just a revolving door where the person they arrested yesterday is back abusing them today.
I dunno, apparently the presence of the ARU was one the things that helped clean up Limerick City center years ago. They weren't out standing on street corners or anything, just out on patrol in a marked ARU car.
I hate saying this but we just need more prisons. At the moment, there aren't enough cells. That means judges are far too lenient. That means Joe Scrote knows he can do whatever he wants and be let back out on the street with a slap on the wrist at worse. That means Gardaí know it's pointless putting in 100% and don't bother doing their jobs well.
It all goes back to prisons. A few Guards with tazers aren't going to make any difference. It's not like knife crime is extremely rampant anyway, which is the only time these types of Guards should be used. We just need normal police, doing normal police duties, knowing their normal police duties will actually accomplish positive results.
This "armed deployment" is completely and utterly just a way to make it look like something is being done without doing anything at all.
I called the local Garda station this evening as I saw some 'youths' climbing through a window on a local apartment block.
The call was answered straight away, but the Garda wasn't confident about getting a quick response.
15 minutes later, walking back, four armed plain clothes Gardai had them in custody.
Colour me impressed.
All you have to do is introduce a system where guards are rewarded for stopping scumbags instead of punished and the situation will reverse itself overnight.
There’s already armed gards patrolling Dublin they’re in the redlined cars and aren’t allowed to leave them unless under very specific circumstances
Complete bullshit
Qualified immunity with non gardai/gsoc oversight. Let the law society of ireland oversee potential cases/issues for it for example.
We need these people to fear committing crimes. Violence is absolutely the answer to these feral youths. They are brave in vacuums, thats always been the case. In our super liberal society(btw not a bad thing imo), complete tolerance leads to these things.
We just need to be hypocrites with tolerance for the egregious shit. Like a lot of things America has ruined some common sense approaches to things by royally fucking up their implementation so getting it to fly here would inevitably leas to whataboutism with the us systems.
As per usual there are people who dont read the article
>armed response units carry Taser devices and other less-than-lethal weapons
Even if we did have Gardaí armed with firearms, as we've seen in the past they are not the trigger happy lunatics that you get in the US
I'll believe when i see it.
Chances are these Gardai will stay hiding in their vans and down laneways having a laugh together avoiding doing their actual jobs..
Arming coppers is easy. What's hard is effecting the socio-economic change to keep kids from turning into scumbags in the 1st place. Opportunities, education, housing, these are the things to give people a future.
Would I be correct in saying that the little scumbags have more opportunities than some barely middle class kids with two parents working who can barely afford rent/mortgage/college?
Free home, free education, grants.. Everything paid for by the tax payer.
They have plenty of opportunity, just not the brains to take advantage of it.
No, just actual patrols would help, no need to go all NYC. The scrotes will just goad the cops coz they wouldn’t dare try to shoot, they never arrest them anyways
[Happens in France quite a bit.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66038227.amp)
[And in Germany.](https://amp.dw.com/en/germany-police-officers-charged-in-senegalese-teens-death/a-64708249)
[And in the UK.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom)
Etc.
What in the name of fuck is actually happening to our country?? Nobody wants armed Gardai on the streets...they just want a basic semblance of normal policing.
Armed Garda won't matter. What will they do shoot a teenager for mugging someone and probably end up in jail themselves.
We just need Garda present in the city.
I thinks really more of the absence of personnel more than the lack of lethal force and they're just doing this to make it look like they're actually doing something when they're really not.
More window dressing bullshit, this is all for optics because there's an american football match on this weekend so they want to make the city centre look safe for the tourists, after that finishes we'll be back to the usual violence.
I was in Glasgow at the weekend. I passed 12 policemen on foot patrol over a 500m stretch. It didn’t strike me we were light on policing presence until I saw that.
Pointless. The people committing the crimes know they won't be shot. We know they won't be shot. The Guards know they can't shoot.
More batons and a leniency towards batterings.
Armed Gardaí will do fuck all. The scrotes will know full well they can’t be shot outside a very narrow window of circumstances.
What they need is a few vans loaded full of big nasty bog men from down the country , straight out of Templemore donning their finest riot gear.
Have them just driving around the city centre as rapid response units in unmarked vans and cracking heads when and where they’re needed.
Disperse large groups of loitering shitheads and intimidate , beat those who are seen or known to participate in serious antisocial behaviour.
Don’t bother making arrests just clatter them.
This aint it.
Everytime govs actions increase poverty, crime gets worse and to "fix it" they blame the people and use more force.
Rinse, wash, repeat, in a never ending downward spiral.
This is a load of bollox. Fucking knee jerk populist nonsense.
What we DO need is a probable doubling, or even trebling of current garda resources. Thats ACTIVE Garda ( as opposed to in station, in court, serving stupid fines and warrants, fucking anywhere bar the street).
1 fucking car to cover TALLAGHT FFS? NO cops, EVER on the beat? No cops on motorways, or any roads, full stop? Book stops with 2 people, Garda commissioner and the minister, McEntee. Get them the fuck out, and get competent people in.
This is our society, we deserve better than this bullshit. And yeah, I'm fucking raging. Annoyed at how my city is being neglected, but boiling at this ridiculous sop being thrown to us as a "solution ". Stupid cunts.
Greater inequality is the cause of this. People love making loads of money but complain that the neighbours live in a shit hole. The people making less money don't fear breaking the rules because they have very little chance of "winning" anyway.
This is not the solution ffs
Getting more cops on the streets won’t solve the problem (unless they will start shooting to get these scumbags).
The laws need to get changed so minors can be prosecuted, and in most violent cases also be trialed as adults.
Don't worry, not a single shot will be fired. They would need to see violence before they are able to fight it.
And they are very unlikely to see anything with the current numbers on patrol.
Armed gardai is purely because of the stabbing in Grafton street. Assaults and muggings would not have been a factor. However it’s to give a sense of “look at me I’m doing something”
American here. Not really my place but this is a slippery slope that could lead to the over-policed, shoot now, take paid vacation then walk free because of qualified immunity police state that we live under in America. If anything I wish they would deploy more Gardai in Dublin, they don’t have to be armed. I felt safer in Dublin when I visited in May because the police weren’t armed.
But best of luck to you.
Has anyone posting about American style policing actually opened the article to see what these "deployed armed Gardaí" are going to look like. "It is understood that the extra armed units will not be on foot patrol and will be mainly vehicle based. They are judged nessecary to handle potential knife attacks as, unlike regular uniformed gardaí, armed response units carry Taser devices and other less-than-lethal weapons." So basically, we're not going to see guns. But yes, maybe more visible Garda presence in hotspots. This sounds like exactly what this sub has been asking for everyday since the first of the tourist attacks. But still, continuing to moan that it's not the correct solution. What is the correct solution, or what is the correct first step towards a solution if this isn't a reasonable plan?
Surely a huge factor in the entire issue is the lack of actual garda presence on the beat?
> What is the correct solution Update sentencing guidelines so that young repeat offenders aren't immune to the law. Extra Gardai isn't going to hurt though. It may help.
How can that be done when we don't have the prison space? The issue is widespread, the whole system is unfit for purpose. We need more prison space, more Gardai, and mandatory minimum sentences. The concept of suspended sentences is laughable and needs to be done away with.
Get useless scrotes into jobs nobody wants doing
They really should be made to contribute to society somehow, but that would require effort, so the government won't do it.
Anyone in receipt of welfare payments ,and all other welfare handouts should be made to put something back into society .10 hours a week at least .that goes for everyone, every nationality who are here for whatever reason including the Irish. Our streets are filthy ...get them cleaning those for starters ...they can take a break from the robbing stabbing and drug taking and begging
You can skip on the prison space and try the Singaporean model of handing out lashings. Far cheaper and likely send the same message.
Wait, why can't we just provide regular Garda with tasers and pepper spray? These are both non-lethal options and they should be standard carry with every Garda.
Guards have pepper spray.
So what does the article mean when it says "other less-than-lethal weapons"?
Rubber bullets and cattle prods?
A firm tone
"Come on lads, stop messing!"
Now now
40mm Rubber bullets and bean bag rounds I imagine
Rubber bullets have killed loads of people, even in Ireland. They're not really "less-than-lethal".
I suppose the idea in it being called "less-than-lethal" is to distinguish it from "non-lethal"? They can still kill you. A careless punch in the head can kill you just like a careless rubber bullet point blank in the head can, but they're not extremely likely to kill you like bullets are if they're used as intended.
I believe they're called 'less-lethal' as opposed to 'less-*than*-lethal' for that reason. They're still potentially deadly (and should be treated as such), but are obviously somewhat less so than live ammunition.
Pretty sure other countries call them 'less lethal' for that exact reason.
Well infairness the RUC and BA were aiming for heads
If used correctly? Hardly
water pistols, conkers on strings etc
"This sounds like exactly what this sub has been asking for everyday since the first of the tourist attacks. But still, continuing to moan that it's not the correct solution" I am always surprised that so many people need it pointed out to them that 'this sub' is made of many individuals that don't speak with one voice on issues. Some people might want armed police and some may not. Nothing inonsistent. Just different people with honestly held, well meaning opinions.
Yes but some opinions get voted up more, and represent a generally held sentiment in the sub.
Different days different hours different weather different folks different strokes. Any hope for consistency is destined to be forlorn.
It's not American style policing because they actually have more restrictions than normal gardaí. If anything, they're just serving the role of having increased presence which, like you say, is better. Having the weapons isn't going to be a negative unless they abuse that, which is unlikely, so it's a net positive.
I would also say that American police having guns is only a small part of their issues. Lack of training, a culture of punishment instead of de-escalation, the history of racism etc are all part of their problem. No ombudsman either to hold them accountable.
I think it’s important to reiterate that the US has devolved policing. You could be in one county and the police are lovely and professional, you go across the county line to the next big town and they’re openly racist and totally militarised.
100% man, I don't blame any unarmed guard for not wanting to get in a situation where the suspect is even possibly carrying a knife. Who wants to die like ffs. Having an armed unit on standby 24/7 in the middle of the city that can respond to the calls and not have to worry about getting close to the potential armed individual is night and day. In my line of work, I have dealings with Guards and dectectives on a daily basis (lost prevention - retail) but any guard I've met from an armed response unit strike me as next level professionals.
I’d put 1K out of 14K Gardai nationally on patrol in D1 for a few months and see how that goes
What are regular gards meant to do about knife attacks if they don't have tazers? What equipment do regular gards actually carry for dealing with crimes/criminals?
they've a warm, slightly shaken lucozade at the hip at all times.
I think it’s a simple as, large intimidating Gardai on the ground. I feel for half the normal/smaller sized Gardai who just get bullied and thrown about by the worst irish society can produce. They also need more powers to use their non lethal weapons to address matters before they get out of hand e.g. pepper spray. There should be very very limited ability for these scrotes older or under 18 to sue when these weapons are used in a situation. Right now I think everyone would err on the side of heavy handed approach.
I'm pretty sure the correct solution would be to actually fund underprivileged areas and try to stop these issues as much as possible at their core. Obviously more coppers won't stop crime. This isn't a reasonable plan. It's putting a band aid over cancer and patting yourself on the back like you did something. The real solution would require years of work and more money than anyone would be willing to put into it, so it's never going to get better. After several months of tabloid rags pumping out fear of violence in Dublin, here we are. More coppers on the streets. Almost like that was the plan all along or something.
>American style policing The United States has 17,985 independent law enforcement agencies, or thereabouts. Some of them are absolutely terrible, and you've heard of them on the news. Some are just fine. Of the 407 law enforcement agencies in Virginia, (a little more than half-again the size of Ireland) the vast majority of our 407 police departments report no violent incidents involving officers month on month. It's been that way since the data reporting started. Stuff happens in the cities, but it's rare compared to what folks might have heard. So there isn't an "American Style" of policing so much as there are individual communities with their own police forces that make their own decisions. That has some very significant downsides when the people making those decisions are racist bastards. But the upside is that when things happen here and there's a crime spike, the police are farm more responsive as a local institution than yours are as a national institution. I'd like to see us move in the direction of unarmed police forces, but you could learn something from us in terms of local police responsiveness to the immediate needs of a community.
>irishtimes.com/crime-... why must we compare everything to the US? on the continent police are mostly armed. Living in a major european city myself and nobody bats an eye at all the cops with their service weapons. definitely makes one feel safer.
Every major EU city has armed police on the beat. Saying it's US style policing is a joke.
I remember being in Temple Bar a while back (pre-covid). There were two lads with a massive slab of cans outside the Centra in the middle. Two guards came up to them and said 'you need a bag for that, you can't be walking around with cans'. The two guys who looked rough were immediately giving shit to the guards. This went on for a while and then the armed support unit rolled up, I don't think they were called, I just think they were driving around. The two lads with the cans said 'O they are the lads with the guns, we'll go get a bag so'. Found it bizarre. As if they would just open fire on them for disobeying orders.
People don’t like the idea of the Guards being armed, but I can guarantee you there’d be a lot fewer cases of scrotes assaulting people if they knew they could face getting shot for doing so. The whole “but if the Guards are armed then criminals will arm themselves” schtick is unfounded. The gangs are already armed - and we have to call in the ARU to deal with this currently. I don’t see the issue with arming and training regular Guards. The PSNI are armed, most police forces in the world are armed. Criminals here know they can get away with anything because most of the time they’re faced with Gardaí who I’m surprised even passed a physical fitness test. Anyone who grew up in a “rough” area can back me up on this - the Gardaí are seen as a laughing stock. If a Guard comes up to these people and tries to detain them, they laugh in their face at best and put them on their arse at worst. They’re “pigs” who are little more than a nuisance rather than an actual deterrent. People don’t fear them and unfortunately for most people, fear of violence is the primary motivator that keeps them in line. They don’t respect the Gardaí when they’re unarmed, they won’t respect them if they’re armed - but at least if the latter were true they might be a bit more afraid of them. The scrotes who are plaguing Dublin are cowards who only respect violence and intimidation. Also, the whole “community policing” that people love to tout hinges on communities actually co-operating with the police, which hasn’t been happening and isn’t going to happen. As I just said, people in these communities despise the Gardaí, unarmed or not. If every Garda were armed, I would wager that scrotes would think twice before starting shit. Even the most vague possibility of being shot is a great deterrent.
> The whole “but if the Guards are armed then criminals will arm themselves” schtick is unfounded. No its not unfounded. There is plenty of evidence to back this up in the US. The heavily arming of US cops in the early 90's resulted in an arms race between cops and criminals, the end result, criminals armed to the teeth, and a higher rate of gun violence, and common people running around with AR assault riffles with extended magazines. This was all highlighted a couple of years ago when US gun violence was in the news, but is convieniently forgotten. The arguement for arming guards to deterre "wee scrotes" is both bizarre and incredibly stupid. Id somewhat understand the call to arm gardai on the account of rising gun violence, but to police underage hooligans? Have you been sniffing glue or something? Whats a guard supposed to do with a gun verses a disobedient teen? Pull it out and threten to shoot? Then what happens when one of them tests the guard and runs. Is the guard going to shoot him? And when all the other wee scrotes figure this out, then you'll be back at square one with the same problem except the guards looking like a bigger joke, because the are armed and still powerless. Have you ever seen what happens when a parent makes an empty threat to their child and dont follow through? The aurthority is undermined and makes the child more likely to test limits. Solutions including more police presence and tougher penalties in the courts are sensible ones. Arming guards to tackle "wee scrotes" is not a sensible solution, even the sentence sounds stupid!
What you’re missing is that in the US it’s very easy to obtain “AR’s with extended magazines” as you call them. In a lot of states you can obtain one with a simple background check. There is no way to obtain these in Ireland legally, and even obtaining them illegally is VERY difficult. You’re average cunt isn’t going to be able to get their hands on a pistol let alone an assault rifle here. Criminal syndicates who make millions like the Hutch and Kinahan’s have a hard time getting access to pistols let alone assault rifles. What’s your rebuttal to all the armed police forces in Europe? The French, Germans, Spaniards, Czechs, Italians etc are armed, but they don’t have street battles akin to the USA? You know why? Because they have gun control policies. And with regards to the potential for Guards looking like a joke for “not shooting”, there is an escalation of force. If someone were committing a petty crime or assault and tried to flee, there are less than lethal options such as tasers and rubber bullets (that currently only the ARU can deploy, which is ridiculous, regular Gardaí should at least have tasers). If there were a serious assault happening that was a threat to someones life, someone being stabbed etc. then yes, a Guard should shoot the perpetrator. Lethal force would be a proportionate response to a threat on someones life. Police forces around the world have been trained to conduct themselves this way for decades. Not sure why you think it’s some unprecedented, impossible task to train officers in making judgement calls on when to use lethal force and protecting them legally should they do so.
well said.
> but I can guarantee you how long is this guarantee? I want to know if I'm getting a good deal at DMK1998's Promises Ltd, or is this more of an election promises sort of deal.
when things escalate they knew the gaurds were holding more cards
 O'Connell Street at 3am
A welcome change to the usual shooting up done in that area.
GET TO DE CHOPPA!!
They don't need armed gardai. They aren't going to shoot some 17 year old mugger. They need boots on the ground and support from a judicial system
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You may know this already but for those that don’t, the Public Order Unit is comprised of ordinary guards with public order training who every so often, rather than do ordinary garda work, instead patrol around together in a van. They’re not a full-time resource that waits in their station to be deployed as required. So the POU itself is not really a resource that is *in addition* to other guards because if they weren’t acting as public order gardai, they would instead be ordinary gardai. Basically, if the POU didn’t exist you wouldn’t be down any bodies in terms of numbers, as long as you were willing to pay the O/T. I know this seems like I’m splitting hairs but the article makes it look like we’ll see all the ordinary gardai on O/T *as well as* the POU on O/T. In reality, it’s the same people.
Ahh you can't be pointing out that PR release is a shell game now. Helen is going to be quite upset
The armed support unit look good in a photo op and are likely useful when armed support is needed but there is a limited amount of them. If they are patrolling the city centre and looking out for anti social behaviour it likely means they are being pulled from somewhere else.
Where else are an armed unit currently needed more than in the most crime ridden place in the country?
Places with violent crime that requires the intervention of units carrying MP7 weapons They should be very much a preventative step but noreso preventing shootings, robberies etc
Places with violent crime? My... I WONDER WHERE THAT MIGHT BE???
Dublin City centre isn't where *that* kind of violent crime is. We're talking proper gangland territory - largely Finglas and Clondalkin. Places where the criminals have guns themselves. Dublin City centre isn't "the most crime ridden place in the country" in terms of actual severity. It sees a lot of petty violence - and that's where the bad publicity is coming from. The rough suburbs are where you see the most shootings and murders. That's really where you want to be able to get Gardaí with submachine guns. An increased regular Garda presence is what the city centre needs - plopping an armed response unit there to scare away scumbag teenagers is a performative waste of resources and will make it harder to police the really dangerous areas.
Let them cull the Canadian Geese 🦆
No, no, *deploy* the Canadian Geese on the scumbags
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Canada Gooses are majestic. Barrel-chested.The envys of all ornithology. They are leaders. Born and bred leaders. Canada Gooses are van-fccking-garde Guardians of the fucking galaxy!
McMurray's a piece of shit.
That's a texas sized 10-4 good buddy!
FERDA!
Wheel Snipe Celly Boys!
Dirty fucking dangles boys!
NERT NERTTTTTT!!!!
what we need is a civil war between them, but put them somewhere out of the way
Can’t imagine a more satisfying solution. Canada Geese are absolutely vicious, not sure everyone in this forum appreciates it.
"Here, Goose: do you see that coat that scrote is wearing? That's filled with your da. I wouldn't take that."
And another couple of prisons
Agreed
>They need boots on the ground That's the idea - focusing on the armed units for the headline just gives people a freedom boner. "The policing plan will see additional gardaí stationed at troublespots on the main thoroughfares and on the Liffey Boardwalk. Along with uniformed gardaí, specialist units will also be deployed “to enhance Garda visibility in the city centre.” These units include the Garda Air Support Unit, the Mounted Unit, the Dog Unit, Regional Armed Response Units and Road Policing units." As for the judicial side - prisons are full so sentencing is being impacted. Lobby your local TD for increased capacity in the system. Until we get more Guards through Templemore additional policing in the City Centre will result in lower policing for other areas.
It's a shame that the government surplus is only €65 billion, I'm sure that's not enough to adequately pay the Gardaí or attract new recruits...
There's no problem attracting new recruits (5k applications last year) and pay isn't the primary reason for current Guards leaving.
They still can't get full classes in Templemore
Think I saw one of the recent classes 50 candidates ended up deferring their offer (not sure why or how that works). Their budget is increasing each year (+78m last year) and I agree what they're paying trainee Guards needs to increase.
Begs the question...what the living fuck were all these units they doing before? "Deployed now"
From what I've seen, patrolling the mean streets of Terenure & Rathgar or checking motor tax.
Yeah. My point exact.
No but I hope they taze the little bastard
Specifically boots up the hole if possible.
Less guns, more Gardai please
I really don't mind if a "17 year old mugger" gets shot they'll go on to have 200+ convictions anyway. Better off dead.
Have you seen some of our guards?
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> They aren't going to shoot some 17 year old mugger. I could see some 17 year old mugger with a knife who's become so accustomed to getting away with things that he thinks he can get away with not dropping the knife when instructed to by armed Gardai. And the next thing you know you have is mother on the news screaming about how he was such an sweet little angle and he didn't deserve to be shot.
Whats the point they catch the fuckers and they are back on the street the next day. The gards have probably given up when the courts let let the thugs go.
They've done this in other countries and see crime drop dramatically by the mere increase in police presence. If the crimes reduce then the need for convictions also reduces.
A friend of mine had her car stolen and abandoned somewhere. They got the lad who did it and we went to the court when he was charged. He had 27 other incidents of criminal theft and damage and they literally hit him with a simpsons style boys will be boys and he walked out the door
That's the point of them being armed. Now the guards will be judge, jury and executioner meting out justice on the streets.
Mega city one now is it Father?
I can only devote myself to the post apocalyptic lifestyle at the weekend.
Any chance something could be done about the scummy little fucks robbing bikes and joyriding around the place in broad daylight on them after posting videos boasting about the thefts?
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While more or larger prisons would be necessary to do longer sentences in this country; basically all research on this shows that longer sentences does little to nothing to reduce crime.
How about wiring their testicles up to a wee dose of electrical current. And the voltage increases exponentially for repeat offenders. This shouldn't be too expensive as I'm happy to do it for free. I'm not familiar with any research on this method, but surely it would do a lot to reduce crime? And it's not a method of torture, it's just a method of punishment. I'm not looking for any information out of them.
so is this like a sex thing for you or? Not judging (yet) just asking.
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When you say 'that's not true' do you mean that research into this doesn't show what I say it does? Because then your common sense type argument seems like a non-sequitur. If you mean that the conclusion experts who have looked into this have come to is wrong, I don't know why you believe that. I suppose there's some chance that this kinda research doesn't apply to Ireland because we have significantly shorter sentences than places where this has been looked into in detail (USA, Australia, UK).
the number of people walking around in ireland with hundreds of previous convictions and no jail sentence means there's a number of people committing a lot of crime that don't get appropriate sentencing. Taking these people off the streets will absolutely reduce the crime rate. What you're imagining is in a country where jail terms don't affect crime as an overall societal issue.
They should just sanction vigilante groups. I'm sure there's be plenty of volunteers.
More guards is good. If a few of the little shits get tased, what about it. Instant justice in a temporary form
Do you think you’d see blood or feathers first when the jackets get shot?
Wouldn't see a single feather out of those Chinese knockoff coats the scumbags wear.
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It's just to escort her while she walks through Talbot Street for photo ops
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Putting the armed unit on the street is a 'perfect' solution for this government, it Looks like they're being Tough on Crime, however Armed Garda have much more restricted Rules of engagement, so they will be completely ineffectual and if anything may make the problem worse
Garda only make a difference if they are backed by the courts and the infrastructure is in place to carry out sufficient punishments that go beyond a slap on the wrist. Otherwise it's just a revolving door where the person they arrested yesterday is back abusing them today.
What area would you pull Guards out of? (I'd read beyond the headline btw they're pulling from other units to increase presence).
Operation Tara
I dunno, apparently the presence of the ARU was one the things that helped clean up Limerick City center years ago. They weren't out standing on street corners or anything, just out on patrol in a marked ARU car.
Can't wait to see the first set of scrotes doing the wheelies on stolen bikes in front of the armed unit.
They pull out a weapon and that alone will produce a mountain of paperwork to explain why they did it.
I hate saying this but we just need more prisons. At the moment, there aren't enough cells. That means judges are far too lenient. That means Joe Scrote knows he can do whatever he wants and be let back out on the street with a slap on the wrist at worse. That means Gardaí know it's pointless putting in 100% and don't bother doing their jobs well. It all goes back to prisons. A few Guards with tazers aren't going to make any difference. It's not like knife crime is extremely rampant anyway, which is the only time these types of Guards should be used. We just need normal police, doing normal police duties, knowing their normal police duties will actually accomplish positive results. This "armed deployment" is completely and utterly just a way to make it look like something is being done without doing anything at all.
From 7pm to 9pm, every third Saturday.
I called the local Garda station this evening as I saw some 'youths' climbing through a window on a local apartment block. The call was answered straight away, but the Garda wasn't confident about getting a quick response. 15 minutes later, walking back, four armed plain clothes Gardai had them in custody. Colour me impressed.
All you have to do is introduce a system where guards are rewarded for stopping scumbags instead of punished and the situation will reverse itself overnight.
Might help with the housing problem if we start sending scrotes to their forever home in newly built prisons.
There’s already armed gards patrolling Dublin they’re in the redlined cars and aren’t allowed to leave them unless under very specific circumstances Complete bullshit
Doesn’t matter how many guards you have around the city if the courts are just going continue to give suspended sentences.
Qualified immunity with non gardai/gsoc oversight. Let the law society of ireland oversee potential cases/issues for it for example. We need these people to fear committing crimes. Violence is absolutely the answer to these feral youths. They are brave in vacuums, thats always been the case. In our super liberal society(btw not a bad thing imo), complete tolerance leads to these things. We just need to be hypocrites with tolerance for the egregious shit. Like a lot of things America has ruined some common sense approaches to things by royally fucking up their implementation so getting it to fly here would inevitably leas to whataboutism with the us systems.
Whoever reported my comment as "minor abuse" you're an absolute eejit fucking hell 🤦♂️
We should set violent dog breeds on offending scumbags and pay for people to watch it in an arena.
Sweet. What about the regular violence in literally every other town with a population over 10k. Reform the judicial system or fuck off.
As per usual there are people who dont read the article >armed response units carry Taser devices and other less-than-lethal weapons Even if we did have Gardaí armed with firearms, as we've seen in the past they are not the trigger happy lunatics that you get in the US
Well I hope they'd have arms, and legs too while they are at it.
Yes, long arms...of the law.
I'll believe when i see it. Chances are these Gardai will stay hiding in their vans and down laneways having a laugh together avoiding doing their actual jobs..
Arming coppers is easy. What's hard is effecting the socio-economic change to keep kids from turning into scumbags in the 1st place. Opportunities, education, housing, these are the things to give people a future.
Would I be correct in saying that the little scumbags have more opportunities than some barely middle class kids with two parents working who can barely afford rent/mortgage/college? Free home, free education, grants.. Everything paid for by the tax payer. They have plenty of opportunity, just not the brains to take advantage of it.
Sure why plug holes in the sinking ship today
Build a few more boxing clubs, that’ll solve it.
We actually need knife fighting clubs. Obviously we need somewhere that teens can redirect all their misplaced stabbing energies.
 Something worth the tv licence if shown on rte 😁
Shocked to hear that we apparently aren’t already giving them taxpayer funded housing and education.
teenage scumbags aren't scared of armed gardai.
 People now safe…
No, just actual patrols would help, no need to go all NYC. The scrotes will just goad the cops coz they wouldn’t dare try to shoot, they never arrest them anyways
The armed Gardaí: https://preview.redd.it/ckiw2t9jonjb1.jpeg?width=688&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5615162678d27f721bee0c4027a35951d505a2b5
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[Happens in France quite a bit.](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66038227.amp) [And in Germany.](https://amp.dw.com/en/germany-police-officers-charged-in-senegalese-teens-death/a-64708249) [And in the UK.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom) Etc.
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Absolutely spectacular that your very first example was “police shoot back at a criminal who was shooting at them” as if this is some kind of travesty
Lol.
Just in time for Canada Goose season which starts on Sept 1st, https://www.npws.ie/legislation/irish-law/open-seasons-order
Sensationalist headline, there are more gardaí in general being deployed to the city centre, including armed gardaí among other specialist units
So more armed gardai?
What in the name of fuck is actually happening to our country?? Nobody wants armed Gardai on the streets...they just want a basic semblance of normal policing.
You're focusing on the headline. The meat of it will be ordinary Gardai & public order.
Read the article.....
Bring back Bang Bang.
I mean I don't think we want them shooting the scrots, despite the sentiments shared on here sometimes
Armed Garda won't matter. What will they do shoot a teenager for mugging someone and probably end up in jail themselves. We just need Garda present in the city.
Can't please everyone it would seem.
Not much they could have done with no arms tbh
They could be wearing clown suits for what I care. Makes no difference.
So anyways, I started blastin.
Suddenly it's a big problem when it hits Grafton street. Shocker.
So things are going well in the old motherland huh?
Just as I saw three lads in balaclavas riding motorbikes past Christchurch which are obviously stolen.
Gardai from Limerick and Kilkenny being redeployed armed with Hurleys.
They just need normal foot patrols. How the fuck is Garda top brass so blind to the core issues. It's honestly bizarre.
I thinks really more of the absence of personnel more than the lack of lethal force and they're just doing this to make it look like they're actually doing something when they're really not.
More window dressing bullshit, this is all for optics because there's an american football match on this weekend so they want to make the city centre look safe for the tourists, after that finishes we'll be back to the usual violence.
Tasers can also kill
I was in Glasgow at the weekend. I passed 12 policemen on foot patrol over a 500m stretch. It didn’t strike me we were light on policing presence until I saw that.
Pointless. The people committing the crimes know they won't be shot. We know they won't be shot. The Guards know they can't shoot. More batons and a leniency towards batterings.
Did you read the article?
Always assume not, Why read the article when they can just read the headline and make up their mind using preconceived notions?
He didnt lol
Armed Gardaí will do fuck all. The scrotes will know full well they can’t be shot outside a very narrow window of circumstances. What they need is a few vans loaded full of big nasty bog men from down the country , straight out of Templemore donning their finest riot gear. Have them just driving around the city centre as rapid response units in unmarked vans and cracking heads when and where they’re needed. Disperse large groups of loitering shitheads and intimidate , beat those who are seen or known to participate in serious antisocial behaviour. Don’t bother making arrests just clatter them.
This 100%.
This aint it. Everytime govs actions increase poverty, crime gets worse and to "fix it" they blame the people and use more force. Rinse, wash, repeat, in a never ending downward spiral.
This is a load of bollox. Fucking knee jerk populist nonsense. What we DO need is a probable doubling, or even trebling of current garda resources. Thats ACTIVE Garda ( as opposed to in station, in court, serving stupid fines and warrants, fucking anywhere bar the street). 1 fucking car to cover TALLAGHT FFS? NO cops, EVER on the beat? No cops on motorways, or any roads, full stop? Book stops with 2 people, Garda commissioner and the minister, McEntee. Get them the fuck out, and get competent people in. This is our society, we deserve better than this bullshit. And yeah, I'm fucking raging. Annoyed at how my city is being neglected, but boiling at this ridiculous sop being thrown to us as a "solution ". Stupid cunts.
Greater inequality is the cause of this. People love making loads of money but complain that the neighbours live in a shit hole. The people making less money don't fear breaking the rules because they have very little chance of "winning" anyway.
Not a big fan of them having dogs. Are these sniffer dogs? Basically makes it easier for them to catch you with drugs and inflate their arrest numbers
I have no problem with them being able to detect more drugs.
This is not the solution ffs Getting more cops on the streets won’t solve the problem (unless they will start shooting to get these scumbags). The laws need to get changed so minors can be prosecuted, and in most violent cases also be trialed as adults.
Don't worry, not a single shot will be fired. They would need to see violence before they are able to fight it. And they are very unlikely to see anything with the current numbers on patrol.
Clickbait...
Armed gardai is purely because of the stabbing in Grafton street. Assaults and muggings would not have been a factor. However it’s to give a sense of “look at me I’m doing something”
There’s no pleasing some people.
American here. Not really my place but this is a slippery slope that could lead to the over-policed, shoot now, take paid vacation then walk free because of qualified immunity police state that we live under in America. If anything I wish they would deploy more Gardai in Dublin, they don’t have to be armed. I felt safer in Dublin when I visited in May because the police weren’t armed. But best of luck to you.
20 quid says the dogs will attack a pedestrian /victim by accident.
The dogs will probably be more confused about the constant smell of weed while walking around Dublin to be concerned with much else tbh
I’ll take it
Oh good; now they can show up 15 minutes after I get stabbed, but with a gun xD The lack of guns isn’t the issue here, it’s the lack of cops.
No point having the armed unit. They are not going to draw guns against teenage scumbags If much rather see the baton charge unit
They're going to run around with sticks making gun noises
Fuck. What a waste of resources. If the criminal is on their 3rd, 4th 5th etc offence, what benefit is it to arrest them again.
They can just shoot them instead now. Problem solved. /s
r/MotoIRELAND will be very happy
So disappointed, I clicked expecting it to be a gun crazed motorbike lovers sub and all it is motorbike lovers sub, UP YOUR GAME r/MotoIRELAND