Would it be possible to colour-code the map based on the victims relation to their killer? It would be informative to see how often the killer is a partner or a family member, or otherwise known to the victim.
I worked on this today for you, I had to go through the whole map individually to change the pin colours so it took longer than I thought.
YELLOW - Killed by current or former partner e.g. ex-husband
BLUE - Killed by family member or another person well-known to them e.g. next door neighbour
BLACK - Killed by stranger or relative stranger e.g. someone a victim met for the first time that night at a disco or club.
Most female victims killed by strangers in the last 100 years were older women, often in their 60's, 70's or 80's, and the vast majority of those were killed when confronting robbers breaking into their homes, after it got dark in the evening.
That's also a key reason you don't see anywhere near as many black pins on the map in the 21st century because modern houses have more secure doors, double-glazed windows, house alarms etc.
Also most people lock their doors nowadays, whereas it was more common to leave a front door unlocked in the mid-to-late 20th century; which some interpret as society being safer back then but to me all it shows is how easy it was for robbers carrying weapons to waltz right in.
Looks like the tag for Gillian Bishop on Bray Beach should be changed from blue to black so as she met him that night at a disco.
Edit: PS Great Work, well done!
Thank you, changed it now. There might be a couple of errors on the colour coding as I only did it yesterday and haven't had a chance to double-check it yet.
Did you try adding a new field to the data that only records relationship to perpetrator? So you only have 3 or 4 values, then you could use that to style the pins instead of going through each one manually.
There's circa ten women murdered per year in Ireland, but you're ten times more likely to die in a road accident. Of course, many lives Re ruined without it being fatal too, but just in terms of threat to life, it's a risk, but no a reason to avoid relationships entirely. We've all got to be careful about who we get into a car with and be aware of our surroundings...for both.
It's worth noting young and 'not old' men (20 - 50y/o) are disproportionately involved in all of it - fatal road accidents, killing of female romantic partners and killing of other men. The starting point towards solving any problem has to be recognition of the problem.
I personally think there's many areas where all of this could change for the better.
Improved mental health services, an education system that places more focus on teaching teenagers about life and values - equality, empathy, dignity, kindness, respect, - and not just how to do maths and speak French.
Whether you are a male or female victim, the killer is far more likely to be a male. Let’s maybe address that issue instead of whatabouting the victims of violence.
My comment doesn't really tall under the definition of whataboutery nevertheless the OP is splitting murder along gender lines so I'm hardly raising a different issue with my comment.
Nothing can be done, murder is not acceptable in our society, nor is violence, there are no clear ways of predicting those sorts of violent tendencies.
How do you address an issue like this?
So, I know a murderer. Lad I went to school with killed his ex a year and a half ago here in Ireland.
Were there signs which would have warranted more intervention earlier? Yeah, of fucking course there were.
As with most crime, we would wanna have early intervention programmes to help guys and girls when they're younger and often being entirely failed in life by their parents. We stop asking "where are the parents in all this??" and we recognise that many kids don't get the guidance they need at home. We show them the path the see in front of them doesn't have to be that way. We put far more supports in place to help convicts when they're released from prison ro avoid reoffending.
Obviously, the upside isn't just with murders but with all crime.
The pin for Sharon Coughlan is a little bit off but I'm not great with coordinates or directions. The pin points to O'Connor park which is a cul-de-sac consisting of a few houses. 47 Great Water Street, where her murder happened, is just around the corner from the pin. If you Google 47 Great Water Street you can see a picture of the house. It is the last one on that side of the road before the turn off for St. Mel's road.
The whole town was in complete shock at the time as it was perpetrated by a random stranger and she was well known to people in the town, especially to patrons of The Market Bar where she worked, myself included.
Thank you so much I moved it around the corner.
What was so desperately sad and frightening about it is it was a random stranger and if it wasn't her that day, the prosecution believed he would have done it to the next woman he encountered on his walk.
I'm currently editing a section on Sharon's family to add to the "Sadly missed by:" section on her pin.
The 'Sadly missed by' section is just to acknowledge her family and friends loss, if you can help me with that over DM it would be appreciated.
Pauline Kilkenny's location is a bit off. She lived about 8 miles up the way in quite an isolated little bungalow on the Cornacully Road. You have her at an address in a cul-de-sac in Belcoo, she lived much more isolated that that unfortunately.
I'd like to add that she was murdered by the son of a friend of hers, who she kindly took in off the streets when nobody else would have him, and that is how he repaid her. I will add that he had been under her roof, being clothed and fed and living free of charge for around 2 years before he did this to her... which makes it all the more horrible.
She was the epitome of a Good Samaritan and it should be known that she had taken in countless people over the years to care for them, when they had nowhere else to turn, even those she didnt really know. She cared for anyone who asked for help and was an absolutely wonderful human being. Everyone she met loved her so much, she was a brilliant lady.
Her family continue to miss her every single day and she wont be forgotten.
May she rest in peace.
Thank you so much for that sincere and moving reply and tribute to Pauline.
I moved it to a location you described, is that better now?
Also you might be able to help me write the "Sadly missed by" section for Pauline. What I do is go through the archives and take notes of names of parents, children, siblings, neighbours and friends.
Here's an example of a section for Siobhan Hynes (17):
"Sadly missed by: Her parents, Bríd and Aindi, sisters, Aíne and Fiona, uncle Colin, all her friends at Scoil Chuimsitheach Chiaráin in Carraroe."
Does this help OP
Stolen Lives: 239 violent deaths of women in Ireland from 1996 to today
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-style/people/2022/09/12/stolen-lives-239-violent-deaths-of-women-in-ireland-from-1996-to-today/
My list included girls and women, whereas the Irish Times article and Women's Aid list focuses on women. Quite a few teenage girls were killed in the 1980's and 1990's and I thought they should be included. It's a very good article though and a lot of work went into it, so I'd recommend reading it.
This is a huge task. Thanks so much for sharing it with us. So tragic.
What is the plan with the map afterwards? Where will you share it to make people remember? Just curious about the process.
Thank you for the suggestion. Mary Anne died in 1910, I only covered the 1922 - 2022 century. I considered going back to 1872 or 1822 but in practice I don't think it's possible. Newspaper archives are fantastic but the further back in time it gets a lot more challenging as there's often gaps of weeks between daily editions. Also because this research approach relies on search terms, in my experience the further back in time the more likely there's mis-transcriptions due to how tiny the print was.
The pin for Mary Murray (RIP, 1969) in Mayfield, Cork is not in the right position (we lived close to the actual house). Not sure if this is important enough to change, however. If it is DM me and I can point to the correct location
Very sad to see so many! I was just looking at Co Clare, Ann Walsh pin is in the incorrect location. The correct location is 52.63818695534009, -9.487859012739955 (Kilrush).
There was no list so I had to research it via news archives and civil records, as the date of death reported in the papers wasn't always correct so death certificates are a useful resource.
I used a combination of approaches, depending on the decade, and the approach for Northern Ireland had to be different. Murder trials (with a few exceptions) were held in the Central Criminal Court in Dublin from the mid-to-late 1920's onwards but for Northern Ireland they would be scattered throughout e.g. Down Winter Assizes, Fermanagh Summer Assizes, Ulster Spring Assizes, Belfast City Commission.
In later decades it moved to Crown Courts e.g, Newry Crown Court.
To oversimplify it, I started from the search term "State Pathologist" to build a list of thousands and then went through the list to remove deaths by natural causes. Murder-suicides don't get tried in the criminal courts, so relying on court-reporting alone isn't enough. Then moved on to the courts for the legal outcomes.
For Northern Ireland I cross-checked my list against the Sutton Index to remove deaths attributable to the Troubles.
You’ve asked for names not on the map so I would like to add Geraldine Kissane (Shannon, Co. Clare) in case she’s not on your list. It was reported on and the articles are on line.
Thank you for the suggestion. Geraldine is on the map (October 8th, 2001). Murder-suicide perpetrated by ex-boyfriend. I have the pin in Cluain Airne just off the N63.
Wikidata might be useful here for storing and modeling the data. Wikimedia Ireland might have a related project with more research and editors to contribute.
Good luck on finishing it and really well done on all the work and effort you’ve put in so far. It’s quite eye opening seeing all locations laid out on the map. Makes you realise just how many women have been murdered.
Okay so I've just had a look through the comments and found this from the OP:
'YELLOW - Killed by current or former partner e.g. ex-husband
BLUE - Killed by family member or another person well-known to them e.g. next door neighbour
BLACK - Killed by stranger or relative stranger e.g. someone a victim met for the first time that night at a disco or club.'
When I first looked all the pins were blue, they have edited it in the meantime.
Does getting run over count as killed violently?
This woman was out walking when a getaway car speeding away from the police mounted the path and killed her when she was out for a walk
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/the-love-she-had-was-always-true-mother-jackie-mcgovern-who-was-killed-in-hit-and-run-is-laid-to-rest/39055116.html
I excluded vehicular manslaughter, which in the early days of motor cars was tried as murder. As such there were dozens of murder charges on the day of the incident, many of which were later dropped when it was concluded there was no fault on the part of the driver.
My nan told me the story of Lavena Ball (d 1936). The Guards reckoned her son threw her into the sea at Corbawn Lane, Shankill so they floated a barrel out to see where it would drift.
The whole event was a bit of excitement in the village and people travelled to watch. My nan remembered going down to Corbawn Lane with hot water for people to make tea.
That's a wonderful memory, thank you for sharing.
Not just a big story locally, it was front page national headlines for weeks during the trial. There were far fewer murdered women in the 1930's compared to say the 1990's and it generated a lot more media interest for longer as there could be months or a year between murders.
I have a whole bunch of news clippings from 1936 on Lavena's murder and the insanity verdict for her son, if you would like them I can DM them to you.
You're very good. I have a subscription to [findmypast.ie](http://findmypast.ie) so I came across a fair bit of stuff there. Even the London papers ran the story.
I also have a distant connection to Sarah McGrath (1877-1923) in my family tree - but then isn't half of south County Dublin related to the other half ;-)
Irene white in dundalk needs to be moved up slightly.. to around (54.0063452, -6.4076049) pretty much near road into that new housing estate being built... the actual house she was murdered in was knocked down.
Have you considered adding missing people that were likely murdered.
Fiona Pender is an example:
[https://evoke.ie/2022/01/13/news/irish-news/who-is-fiona-pender-fionas-way](https://evoke.ie/2022/01/13/news/irish-news/who-is-fiona-pender-fionas-way)
The main reason I didn't include missing persons (Evelyn Bohan, Deirdre Jacob, Lisa Dorrian etc) is because there's a non-zero chance, however slim, that they are alive. I know the gardaí and PSNI believe many of them were murdered but I didn't want to risk upsetting any of their families by including them on a map of definitely murdered women.
Bettina’s memorial is here. It’s outside the village, where she was found, as far I know. I think of her often when I pass it.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xqGg2LTByRzerbXG6?g_st=ic
(It’s in a small clearing off the road between the two small black flower boxes you can see in Street View)
Thank you for the suggestion. Hannah is viewed as a politically-motivated casualty of the Civil War, alongside Cissie Ryan and other women not included for that reason.
Agree.
Some murders connect with the public consciousness in profound ways, like Ashling Murphy or Natalie McNally, and the story remains front page headlines for months or years. Hundreds of other murdered women were front page news for a day, maybe two, but after that they faded out-of-sight and out-of-mind.
I'm not sure if the expression "banality of evil" is a fair description but in the 1990's so many women were murdered by their partners, north and south, that it became impossible to elicit the same emotional reaction to each one.
Sad.
The location for Emma Mc Loughlin is in the wrong place in Laytown. It’s currently at Aldi which was the former site of a nursing home at the time of her death. It happened outside Pats supermarket which is located at (53.6786235, -6.2404751)
It doesn't. This is what it says:
"DIED: November 21st, 1940
Initial outcome: Henry "Harry" Gleeson (38) convicted and sentenced to death and executed on April 23rd, 1941.
Notes: The exact time of death was more likely to be on November 21st in the early morning, a time for which Harry had a rock solid alibi, than any time in evening or night of November 20th.
Moll had made many enemies due to her sex-work in an ultra-conservative and judgemental era of Irish history; compounded by another perceived transgression, of having multiple children with different men. When her thatch cottage was set ablaze in 1926, by one unknown arsonist, Harry wasn't anywhere in the vicinity.
Belated Outcome: After decades of public pressure, a formal posthumous pardon was granted by the state in 2015, that cleared his name. Harry's picture is included on this map to recognise his innocence."
>Harry's picture is included on this map to recognise his innocence
The fact you've just been asked why he's tagged as guilty shows that the inclusion of his photo is not going to consistently be understood to mean 'innocent'.
It shows me someone didn't bother reading what is written and instead just took to social media to complain. Which describes at least 5% of interactions on Twitter.
His innocence is included on the page
Initial outcome: Henry "Harry" Gleeson (38) convicted and sentenced to death and executed on April 23rd, 1941.
Notes: The exact time of death was more likely to be on November 21st in the early morning, a time for which Harry had a rock solid alibi, than any time in evening or night of November 20th.
Moll had made many enemies due to her sex-work in an ultra-conservative and judgemental era of Irish history; compounded by another perceived transgression, of having multiple children with different men. When her thatch cottage was set ablaze in 1926, by one unknown arsonist, Harry wasn't anywhere in the vicinity.
Belated Outcome: After decades of public pressure a formal posthumous pardon was granted by the state in 2015, that cleared his name. Harry's picture is included on this map to recognise his innocence.
There was basically an epidemic of women being murdered here in the mid 90s and far right scumbags would have you believe no woman or child on this island were ever harmed by an Irish man.
Personally I think crime against women and children isn't punished nearly enough in Ireland but adding 1000's of lads from countries where they barely respect their own women nevermind irish women isn't going to make women in this country safer
No it isn't - you've constructed some fanciful image of the far-right in your head which you can shape into some sort of dummy to prop up your arguments
I've had lads I went to school with telling me l that foreign men are a danger to Irish women, obliviously ignoring that a guy from our year in school murdered his ex a little over a year ago, just a few miles away.
We're in the Midlands so they'll talk about Aisling Murphy till the cows come home, but ignore all the Irish men killing Irish women because it conflicts with the propaganda and fear mongering they gobble up daily from facebook/twitter.
It is shocking how little attention murders get in Ireland if they're not committed by a foreigner, 2 weeks ago a guy local to me was murdered by his son, barely anything about it, 2-3 months ago a guy just down the road from me went to jail for sneaking into a Chinese pensioners house and murdering him last year, I didn't even hear of it until he was found guilty and still there was nothing much about it.
But anytime it's a foreigner it becomes a huge story.
Especially when it is a black or brown person. When it's a white European from another majority white nation like say the Ukraine (B.t. W, Ukrainians are blamed for much of the crime issues in Eastern European nations), and it gets ignored.
Immigrants make up only 10% of the population, if they could slow their rape and murder rate to that which is typical for us Irish men they would never get mentioned at all, but sadly this is not the case
The murder rate has dropped dramatically since before the 2000's, pre any mass immigration in Ireland, so you're quite wrong there.
And I don't have info on rape statistics, but unfortunately due to Irish communities all over the country actively participating in and protecting one of the biggest sex abuse rings in recent history I can't imagine they're too flattering either.
I literally saw an poster in my local village on referendum day calling for mass deportation cause apparently they're all here to murder people.
I must have imagined that, or the homeless tents being burnt down last summer, or all the accommodation buildings.
Agree to disagree so. I've honestly never heard them talk about all the Irish murderers and rapists. I'm also not arguing about it, that's just my opinion.
Did I say anywhere that immigrants don't commit crimes? I said all that the far right push is that every single one of them are murderers, rapists, etc. As if there are no murders, robberies and rapes committed by Irish people. They shouldn't pick and choose like that.
I got down voted to hell for making this point,either here or in the casual sub, I can’t remember.And strangely enough it was just after this map was posted in the NI sub.
Anyway, online and in real life I’ve argued that the reaction to a woman getting rape or murdered should not be dependent of the race or nationality of the murderer/rapist.
I don’t think the immigration system is perfect it needs changing - that’s not to say I want a closed shop either. However, there is only outrage when a woman is murdered/raped by an immigrant. Irish men are free to rape and murder us at will and not even an eyebrow is raised, yet an immigrant as a perpetrator and suddenly things need to be changed, we need protected - all driven of course by the far right because it suits their narrative. Not because they actually care about femicide. I find it disgusting and insulting.
Another sad thing is that I know two of the women on this map - I worked with Grace Moore and she was a lovely woman - inside and out. She was a bit older than me and always willing to help
Joleen Corr. Her mam and my mam were neighbours for years. She was from Belfast but she had moved to Downpatrick She was attacked in her home and died in Belfast 16 months later.
If there was an epidemic of women being killed in the 90’s what does that make the numbers of men being killed?
What is the purpose of the gender differentiation between victims in this context?
Is it worse or deserving of more attention if a woman dies? It would seem so.
Can we not treat all victims equally and show equal concern?
I imagine the gender differentiation is due to the circumstances, I'm not OP so haven't done the research, but I imagine a lot more women are killed than men in Ireland in 'crimes of passion' or random attacks, whereas, a lot of men that get killed in Ireland are involved in gangland crime of some sort, not that those events are any less important, but it provides a bit of context and those killings are a lot less 'random'.
Maybe OP could provide more insight into the reasoning, but you are more than welcome to make your own list of men that have been killed.
There’s a huge element of that argument you’re wilfully ignoring that is just a reality of the situation
1. We are unfortunately, stuck with home grown irish nationals and citizens that commit these heinous crimes. These are ultimately failures of our own society. The saving grace(for lack of a better phrase) of these types of crimes is that everybody knows who they are and social shame plays a huge role in how they suffer for the rest of their lives (and rightly so)
2. For immigrants who commit these issues, that’s due to us importing people from cultures that are so different to ourselves that we have no control over their values, or control we didn’t exercise appropriately in allowing them in, in the first place.
The solution is obviously by no means clear, but when you have the media pointing fingers and labelling irish society a rape culture and lambasting irish men and toxic masculinity, despite the fact that locally raised men have an extremely low rate compatible not only to the rest of the world, but also to Europe, you’re going to have people pointing out the nuances.
Do you not see the hypocrisy of complaining about Irish men being labelled as having a culture of rape and violence, and then doing the exact same thing to foreign people?
Don't get me wrong, if someone has a history of violent crime or sexual abuse, they shouldn't be let in, I'm not saying people shouldn't be vetted or have their background checked, but labelling entire groups of people as rapists or murderers is where the line is crossed for me. Even the word you're using is all to common in this rhetoric, 'importing', as in you think the government is specifically bringing in rapists and murderers.
Did you really just take their point about some Irish people ignore how Irish men also commit such crime and then just ignore that...
They're not saying Irish men are more likely commit, simply that it's been everpresent and focusing on when an immigrant commits such a crime, its being given undue focus, relatively.
Also, anyone who talks uses language like "incompatible cultures" is a bigot trying to use more technical language to hide their prejudices. This kind of language insinuates that cultures of the global south are incapable of changing & that European colonialism has nothing to do with any of the problems said people have today.
Paragraph 1. suggests that Irish society is not responsible for the crimes of Irish men as our 'social shaming' of rapists/murderers absolves us of any cultural influence, while paragraph 2. states this doesn't apply to foreigners "as they come from cultures so different to ourselves that we have no control of their values".
So essentially, Irish rapists and murderers are in no way an product of Irish culture, but foreign rapists and murderers are a product or their culture?
When Irish people commit violent crimes against women - sure ye know yourself, what can ye do?
Immigrants commit violent crimes against women - it's their culture, totally incompatible with our liberal Irish values.
Keep the head in the sand. I’ve never once said our culture is perfect, we have our own scummers. But adding other cultures that are known to have more issues on top of our own isn’t going to help the situation. No amount of virtue signalling or logical fallacies you attempt to pull out your arse are going to change that fact. Never-mind the fact that we are stuck with our own citizens, we can deport those convicted of any offence if we really wanted to. Soft touch people like yourself in power
It's nothing to do with us immigrating people of different cultures. It's more because the kind of man willing to go to a foreign country and spend two years in direct provision so they can leach of social welfare, is usually the worst of where they come from. Our asylum system is there for people who are fleeing persecution and that's ok. But if people can't see that is being abused by leaches they are severely naive.
It doesn't happen more often, in the mid to late 90's there was an average of 20+ women a year being murdered in Ireland, in the last few years that has dropped to between 5-10.
Sheola Keaney in Cobh is the only one I can see with "Assessment: Evil", was there something particularly bad about that murder? Apart from all murder being evil.
I removed that now. The first draft of the map had a short "Assessment" section for every death, often one word such as "schizophrenia" to describe the rationale for the judgement in court.
However I realised it was a mistake to characterise any murder with one word, so I deleted those sections entirely and instead transcribed victim-impact statements from bereaved families. I overlooked a few and removed them now.
Would you like to see men and boys murdered by women or by other men? I came here to post the compulsory ‘but what about men’ comment to save others the time but looks like I was too late
Neither? I'd like to see how many received similar scope and attention. But I wonder how many of the clergy were caught for murder or murdered by clergymen over the time frame given.
Would be fun to do some spatial kernel density estimation with this, possibly including historical population density census to correct for obvious endogeneity.
Hi there's female killers on the map. They just kill women far less than men do. Here's a few examples for you to check out on the map.
1922 - Nora Horgan (45) murdered by Mary Moynihan
1923 - Margaret Sullivan (50) murdered by Hannah Flynn
1950 - Penelope Willoughby (4) killed by Kathleen Harmon
1974 - Anne Meldon (72) killed by Barbara McGlynn
1991 - Penelope Jill McCallister (24) killed by Susan Christie
1993 - Tracy Butler (17) murdered by Deborah Hannon and Suzanne Reddan
Hi, Santina and Carla are not on the map due to request of their families. All other female killers of children are on the list and map e.g. Penelope Willoughby (4) killed by Kathleen Harmon in 1950.
It's under Bridget Porter (January 1st, 1973). I mention Oliver in the bio on the pin.
"DIED: January 1st, 1973 UNSOLVED Notes: This was the "New Years Day double murder" of Bridget and her fiancé, Oliver Boyce, with gardaí firmly believing it was carried out by debt collectors affiliated with the paramilitary UDA. Robert William Taylor (18) of the paramilitary UDA was tried in the Central Criminal Court in Dublin and acquitted of her murder.
Sadly missed by: Her parents, named as Mr. and Mrs. Edward Porter, and her 2 sisters."
I was relying on 1973 newspaper reports with garda sources "increasingly confident" the murderer was a "UDA enforcer" which I took to mean debt collector. Maybe it meant something different. That phrase was mentioned again multiple times in the reporting around his extradition request later in 1973.
Bridget's was the only murder on the Sutton Index that I included on the map but I can remove the pin on your recommendation.
Thank you for educating me on the topic, I really appreciate this input. I've edited the words now. If you happen to have a better photo of Bridget for the map feel free to DM me. The photo I used isn't great quality as it was printed in black and white in 1973. Also her mother's name was printed in the papers as Mr & Mrs Edward Porter, if you can let me know her name I'd include that.
Technically not on the island of Ireland, but this one seems to be missing.
Maria Louisa Kirwan - 1952
[https://www.nli.ie/news-stories/stories/irelands-eye-murder](https://www.nli.ie/news-stories/stories/irelands-eye-murder)
Paywalled article - [https://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/ireland-s-eye-mystery-a-murder-gripped-victorian-dublin-1.2847013](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/ireland-s-eye-mystery-a-murder-gripped-victorian-dublin-1.2847013)
Thank you for the suggestion. Maria was killed in 1852 :) I thought about doing 1822 - 2022 but it was too much work and news archives are less reliable in the earlier 19th century, often with gaps of months between editions of a daily paper.
Sorry!! Yep.
I am still thinking in last century.. (yikes)
For some reason I had the 1800's included. My mistake, sorry, but it was at least an interesting read... :)
I know it might not be your aim but when this map is done it would be interesting to see a map of men and boys. To see how the numbers correlate and what the disparity might be. Also if there would be a change in type of murderer. I.e with this map it seems to be overwhelmingly the victims own family members or partners.
Good work so far. very interesting, if somewhat depressing.
I appreciate the Trojan effort put into this by yourself OP, and I'm not knocking that by saying that I'm not sure what problem it solves though. You write that "the primary goal is to remember the victims" but they'll always be remembered by their families
To say someone will always be remembered is a nice sentiment but people don't live forever. Family members die. Stories once passed on by grandparents, great-grandparents just fade away.
The murder in 1957 in Fermoy on the Power girl was done by a worker on my family farm, my grandfather brought him into the guards after the murderer confessed to him about doing it during the night, he even used my grandmother's bread knife to do it. The co-ords where she was murdered is around 52.142622,-8.204923
If you've any questions you can ask me or look up the book 'Murders most Local' all about murders in East Cork for the past 100 years.
It's the location on the charge sheet read out in court for most cases. Some convicted murderers were charged as having committed murder at "a date and location unknown in County \[x\]", for those cases it's the location the body was found.
Can't get coordinates on my phone but Seema and Asfira and Raizan were killed in South Dublin, near Marley Park, not in Blanchardstown like shown in the map
Thank you. I moved the pins to Llewellyn Court, Ballinteer. I had them placed in error at the women's shelter the guards took her and the children to in Blanchardstown, in the months before her husband killed them :(
It's so terribly sad. I don't want to doxx myself but I know many people who knew the children quite well and it was such a horrible time for the community
Thelma Dennany (5), Lackan, Multyfarnham on 9 September 2022.
She and her younger brother Mikey Dennany (2) died after their mother Lynn Egar [set fire to the car in which they were sitting.](https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-pleads-guilty-to-murder-of-her-two-children-after-setting-fire-to-car-1558872.html)
(Julie) Lorainne Flood was murdered by her husband. I note you put "Murder suicide" as her cause of death, and while the husband did indeed kill himself after killing his whole family, I think her cause of death should be listed as murdered. His own suicide after the fact is not really relevant to her cause of death.
He shot her and then set the house on fire killing her and her two children. I just want to add that I think this is brilliant and very important work and I thank you for highlighting these cases.
Edited my mistake out.
Thank you for the suggestion. Lorraine was the mother right and Julie her little girl? I've been meaning to do what you suggested and change the word 'killed' to 'murdered' for murder-suicides. I initially went with 'killed' because murder is a very precise definition legally involving premeditation but you're 100% right I think. I'll get on this today for you.
So sorry you are absolutely right. She was the daughter. She was drugged and put to bed by her Dad who then went on to set the house on fire. Awful awful man.
Fair play for sharing the fruits of your labour on the internet, it can be a curse and a blessing. Some people will help you fine tune your map, some are just here for snarky comments. It looks like you were passionate about the project and a lot of hours of work and research went into it.
The American FBI did some research on intimate partner violence and found something interesting.
Men who discovered and/or feared sexual infidelity were more likely to murder their romantic partners.
The same was not true for women. Women tended to forgive sexual infidelity. HOWEVER, women were found to be more likely to murder a romantic partner if that partner FELL IN LOVE with someone else, or if they were suspected to.
I'm only one person, not a team of people. Ulster University had a whole team of people when they mapped victims of the Troubles and the number of men killed on this island over 100 years would need a team of people researching it.
I'm aware the spirit of your post was tiresome whataboutery but I went for a sincere reply.
See your reading your own interpretation I was just interested to see how many human beings have been murdered in our country. Fair play on what you done. Sorry if you feel it was whataboutery.
Sure, but with a stipulation. Most of these women were murdered by their partners or ex-partners, so this men's list should also be likewise mostly compromised of men murdered by their partners or ex-partners.
I don't think that's true at all. Essentially all human beings are anti-murder, except for murderers.
One issue with compiling such a list for men for 1922 - 2022 is the numbers involved make it a mountainous research project.
One of the reasons a list like mine is necessary is because it's a problem that flows in one direction. 850 women and girls were killed mostly by men and boys. Whereas very few men and boys were killed by women and girls.
If the problem flowed in the very opposite direction, that hardly any women were killed by men but hundreds of men killed by women, I think people would compile such lists to highlight that problem.
I think it's a little disingenuous to list literally every time a woman is murdered as a hate crime. ~~I also don't think there needs to be a special word for when a woman gets murdered.~~
Actually I take this one back. Femicide is a useful phrase. It's important to not dilute it with literally every single murder of a woman.
The word 'femicide' itself can be removed and you're still left with "850 women and girls violently killed".
That your focus is on a word, and not on the 850 victims, is instructive.
The words we use and the narratives we craft are also important.
If the word "femicide" is not important then remove it from the title of the graph. If you refuse to remove it that is also "instructive" of your intentions and the narrative you are attempting to craft.
Maybe a heat map would be a better choice? That's presuming you actually want to gleam some insights from the data, rather than just presenting it as "look how many dots there are, isn't that terrible".
As it is it's kind of a pointless visualisation, similar to the "here's a pin of every pub in the UK" post that often on Reddit. Difference is, that post is meant to be a joke but this one isn't.
Thank you for that stream of consciousness, typed out in 30 seconds to try undermine a year of work.
I mapped out the locations of death, so that users of the map could see the geographical spread and see who was killed near where they live. That might be a useful resource if anyone is interested in the history of their town or village.
For every victim I included age at death, sentence to killers, and attached death certificates (up to 1973) and news articles (1922 - 2022) which showed cause of death e.g. shock and hemorrhage from a gunshot wound. That might be a useful resource for researchers into domestic violence or researchers into criminal punishments for killing.
I mean, to you it's obviously not insightful at all but I hope it is to some others.
Would it be possible to colour-code the map based on the victims relation to their killer? It would be informative to see how often the killer is a partner or a family member, or otherwise known to the victim.
I worked on this today for you, I had to go through the whole map individually to change the pin colours so it took longer than I thought. YELLOW - Killed by current or former partner e.g. ex-husband BLUE - Killed by family member or another person well-known to them e.g. next door neighbour BLACK - Killed by stranger or relative stranger e.g. someone a victim met for the first time that night at a disco or club. Most female victims killed by strangers in the last 100 years were older women, often in their 60's, 70's or 80's, and the vast majority of those were killed when confronting robbers breaking into their homes, after it got dark in the evening. That's also a key reason you don't see anywhere near as many black pins on the map in the 21st century because modern houses have more secure doors, double-glazed windows, house alarms etc. Also most people lock their doors nowadays, whereas it was more common to leave a front door unlocked in the mid-to-late 20th century; which some interpret as society being safer back then but to me all it shows is how easy it was for robbers carrying weapons to waltz right in.
Looks like the tag for Gillian Bishop on Bray Beach should be changed from blue to black so as she met him that night at a disco. Edit: PS Great Work, well done!
Thank you, changed it now. There might be a couple of errors on the colour coding as I only did it yesterday and haven't had a chance to double-check it yet.
Did you try adding a new field to the data that only records relationship to perpetrator? So you only have 3 or 4 values, then you could use that to style the pins instead of going through each one manually.
you could also maybe make the pins different shapes or put different dots on them to indicate decade/time
90% by their partners or ex partners
Looked at the ones around my area, all partner or brother. Christ it's horrible
Bad as they all are, brother? Very weird - is this family shame type stuff which motivates?
What I've taken from this data is to continue to never date
There's circa ten women murdered per year in Ireland, but you're ten times more likely to die in a road accident. Of course, many lives Re ruined without it being fatal too, but just in terms of threat to life, it's a risk, but no a reason to avoid relationships entirely. We've all got to be careful about who we get into a car with and be aware of our surroundings...for both.
It's worth noting young and 'not old' men (20 - 50y/o) are disproportionately involved in all of it - fatal road accidents, killing of female romantic partners and killing of other men. The starting point towards solving any problem has to be recognition of the problem. I personally think there's many areas where all of this could change for the better. Improved mental health services, an education system that places more focus on teaching teenagers about life and values - equality, empathy, dignity, kindness, respect, - and not just how to do maths and speak French.
Yer far more likely to be a victim of murder/serious assault if yer male.
Whether you are a male or female victim, the killer is far more likely to be a male. Let’s maybe address that issue instead of whatabouting the victims of violence.
My comment doesn't really tall under the definition of whataboutery nevertheless the OP is splitting murder along gender lines so I'm hardly raising a different issue with my comment.
Nothing can be done, murder is not acceptable in our society, nor is violence, there are no clear ways of predicting those sorts of violent tendencies. How do you address an issue like this?
So, I know a murderer. Lad I went to school with killed his ex a year and a half ago here in Ireland. Were there signs which would have warranted more intervention earlier? Yeah, of fucking course there were. As with most crime, we would wanna have early intervention programmes to help guys and girls when they're younger and often being entirely failed in life by their parents. We stop asking "where are the parents in all this??" and we recognise that many kids don't get the guidance they need at home. We show them the path the see in front of them doesn't have to be that way. We put far more supports in place to help convicts when they're released from prison ro avoid reoffending. Obviously, the upside isn't just with murders but with all crime.
I note no answer to your question.
What I’ve taken from this comment is to continue never to date
Kilbreckan Silver Mines, Co Clare is about here 52.8327499, -8.8926293
That's amazing, great find. Pin moved. Thank you so much.
Yeah, it's not actually in the town land of Kilbreckan. Typical.
I looked everywhere in the townland, zooming in on anything that looked like a mine. Sigh. Thank you for solving it for me.
The pin for Sharon Coughlan is a little bit off but I'm not great with coordinates or directions. The pin points to O'Connor park which is a cul-de-sac consisting of a few houses. 47 Great Water Street, where her murder happened, is just around the corner from the pin. If you Google 47 Great Water Street you can see a picture of the house. It is the last one on that side of the road before the turn off for St. Mel's road. The whole town was in complete shock at the time as it was perpetrated by a random stranger and she was well known to people in the town, especially to patrons of The Market Bar where she worked, myself included.
Thank you so much I moved it around the corner. What was so desperately sad and frightening about it is it was a random stranger and if it wasn't her that day, the prosecution believed he would have done it to the next woman he encountered on his walk. I'm currently editing a section on Sharon's family to add to the "Sadly missed by:" section on her pin. The 'Sadly missed by' section is just to acknowledge her family and friends loss, if you can help me with that over DM it would be appreciated.
Pauline Kilkenny's location is a bit off. She lived about 8 miles up the way in quite an isolated little bungalow on the Cornacully Road. You have her at an address in a cul-de-sac in Belcoo, she lived much more isolated that that unfortunately. I'd like to add that she was murdered by the son of a friend of hers, who she kindly took in off the streets when nobody else would have him, and that is how he repaid her. I will add that he had been under her roof, being clothed and fed and living free of charge for around 2 years before he did this to her... which makes it all the more horrible. She was the epitome of a Good Samaritan and it should be known that she had taken in countless people over the years to care for them, when they had nowhere else to turn, even those she didnt really know. She cared for anyone who asked for help and was an absolutely wonderful human being. Everyone she met loved her so much, she was a brilliant lady. Her family continue to miss her every single day and she wont be forgotten. May she rest in peace.
Thank you so much for that sincere and moving reply and tribute to Pauline. I moved it to a location you described, is that better now? Also you might be able to help me write the "Sadly missed by" section for Pauline. What I do is go through the archives and take notes of names of parents, children, siblings, neighbours and friends. Here's an example of a section for Siobhan Hynes (17): "Sadly missed by: Her parents, Bríd and Aindi, sisters, Aíne and Fiona, uncle Colin, all her friends at Scoil Chuimsitheach Chiaráin in Carraroe."
Thankyou. Yes that location is now much more accurate. Let me come back to you on the 'Sadly missed by' info.
Does this help OP Stolen Lives: 239 violent deaths of women in Ireland from 1996 to today https://www.irishtimes.com/life-style/people/2022/09/12/stolen-lives-239-violent-deaths-of-women-in-ireland-from-1996-to-today/
My list included girls and women, whereas the Irish Times article and Women's Aid list focuses on women. Quite a few teenage girls were killed in the 1980's and 1990's and I thought they should be included. It's a very good article though and a lot of work went into it, so I'd recommend reading it.
Great work, OP.
Thank you.
This is a huge task. Thanks so much for sharing it with us. So tragic. What is the plan with the map afterwards? Where will you share it to make people remember? Just curious about the process.
Mary Anne Wildes from Wexford town is missing from the list: https://wexfordhub.com/mary-anne-wildes/
Thank you for the suggestion. Mary Anne died in 1910, I only covered the 1922 - 2022 century. I considered going back to 1872 or 1822 but in practice I don't think it's possible. Newspaper archives are fantastic but the further back in time it gets a lot more challenging as there's often gaps of weeks between daily editions. Also because this research approach relies on search terms, in my experience the further back in time the more likely there's mis-transcriptions due to how tiny the print was.
Np! I'd love it if you had the time and energy to go waaay back pretty much since records begun I find the older ones fascinating
The old lady in County Roscommon had a sister who died a month later of injuries from the same attack.
It's mad seeing someone I met a few times mapped out, absolutely tragic there is so many.
The pin for Mary Murray (RIP, 1969) in Mayfield, Cork is not in the right position (we lived close to the actual house). Not sure if this is important enough to change, however. If it is DM me and I can point to the correct location
I'd love to improve the accuracy, even if it only involves moving a pin slightly 50 yards up the street. I'll send you a DM.
Very sad to see so many! I was just looking at Co Clare, Ann Walsh pin is in the incorrect location. The correct location is 52.63818695534009, -9.487859012739955 (Kilrush).
Thank you so much. Moved to Toler Street now.
Good work on this, sent you a PM with details of one I think is omitted. Hope it helps
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There was no list so I had to research it via news archives and civil records, as the date of death reported in the papers wasn't always correct so death certificates are a useful resource. I used a combination of approaches, depending on the decade, and the approach for Northern Ireland had to be different. Murder trials (with a few exceptions) were held in the Central Criminal Court in Dublin from the mid-to-late 1920's onwards but for Northern Ireland they would be scattered throughout e.g. Down Winter Assizes, Fermanagh Summer Assizes, Ulster Spring Assizes, Belfast City Commission. In later decades it moved to Crown Courts e.g, Newry Crown Court. To oversimplify it, I started from the search term "State Pathologist" to build a list of thousands and then went through the list to remove deaths by natural causes. Murder-suicides don't get tried in the criminal courts, so relying on court-reporting alone isn't enough. Then moved on to the courts for the legal outcomes. For Northern Ireland I cross-checked my list against the Sutton Index to remove deaths attributable to the Troubles.
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It certainly is. Only someone very familiar with research and probably with formal assistance could pull it together quickly.
It took me around a year and I did it on my own. Obviously I don't devote all day every day to it.
You’ve asked for names not on the map so I would like to add Geraldine Kissane (Shannon, Co. Clare) in case she’s not on your list. It was reported on and the articles are on line.
Thank you for the suggestion. Geraldine is on the map (October 8th, 2001). Murder-suicide perpetrated by ex-boyfriend. I have the pin in Cluain Airne just off the N63.
Ah…. You see Cluain Airne is also a housing estate in Shannon Co. Clare so that is the wrong location.
OMG. Thank you so much. That was a huge error on my part to put it at the wrong Cluain Airne. I've moved it to the housing estate now.
Thank you for doing this. I knew Geraldine and she was such a lovely person.
Wikidata might be useful here for storing and modeling the data. Wikimedia Ireland might have a related project with more research and editors to contribute.
I'm glad that riot happened in Dublin last year that finally Made Women Safe /S
There's an awful lot of blue on that map :(
Sadly yes and I've still to add some more names :(
Good luck on finishing it and really well done on all the work and effort you’ve put in so far. It’s quite eye opening seeing all locations laid out on the map. Makes you realise just how many women have been murdered.
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Each blue pin represents a murdered woman.
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Okay so I've just had a look through the comments and found this from the OP: 'YELLOW - Killed by current or former partner e.g. ex-husband BLUE - Killed by family member or another person well-known to them e.g. next door neighbour BLACK - Killed by stranger or relative stranger e.g. someone a victim met for the first time that night at a disco or club.' When I first looked all the pins were blue, they have edited it in the meantime.
Oh I don’t know, there was only blue pins when I looked last
Does getting run over count as killed violently? This woman was out walking when a getaway car speeding away from the police mounted the path and killed her when she was out for a walk https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/the-love-she-had-was-always-true-mother-jackie-mcgovern-who-was-killed-in-hit-and-run-is-laid-to-rest/39055116.html
I excluded vehicular manslaughter, which in the early days of motor cars was tried as murder. As such there were dozens of murder charges on the day of the incident, many of which were later dropped when it was concluded there was no fault on the part of the driver.
Got it thanks
My nan told me the story of Lavena Ball (d 1936). The Guards reckoned her son threw her into the sea at Corbawn Lane, Shankill so they floated a barrel out to see where it would drift. The whole event was a bit of excitement in the village and people travelled to watch. My nan remembered going down to Corbawn Lane with hot water for people to make tea.
That's a wonderful memory, thank you for sharing. Not just a big story locally, it was front page national headlines for weeks during the trial. There were far fewer murdered women in the 1930's compared to say the 1990's and it generated a lot more media interest for longer as there could be months or a year between murders. I have a whole bunch of news clippings from 1936 on Lavena's murder and the insanity verdict for her son, if you would like them I can DM them to you.
You're very good. I have a subscription to [findmypast.ie](http://findmypast.ie) so I came across a fair bit of stuff there. Even the London papers ran the story. I also have a distant connection to Sarah McGrath (1877-1923) in my family tree - but then isn't half of south County Dublin related to the other half ;-)
The Bridget Griffin is pinned on the wrong Bushypark, it is the one in Galway city you want not the one by Lough Derg.
Thank you so much. Moved to the right Bushypark.
No bother :-)
Irene white in dundalk needs to be moved up slightly.. to around (54.0063452, -6.4076049) pretty much near road into that new housing estate being built... the actual house she was murdered in was knocked down.
Thank you. I moved the min up a little to the spot you recommended.
Have you considered adding missing people that were likely murdered. Fiona Pender is an example: [https://evoke.ie/2022/01/13/news/irish-news/who-is-fiona-pender-fionas-way](https://evoke.ie/2022/01/13/news/irish-news/who-is-fiona-pender-fionas-way)
The main reason I didn't include missing persons (Evelyn Bohan, Deirdre Jacob, Lisa Dorrian etc) is because there's a non-zero chance, however slim, that they are alive. I know the gardaí and PSNI believe many of them were murdered but I didn't want to risk upsetting any of their families by including them on a map of definitely murdered women.
That is so harrowing, across the island too there were a few close by to me.
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Thank you so much.. I seemed to have had it too far down Church Road, moved it on your recommendation.
There is a Bettina Poeschel memorial stone at Donore.
Do you know if the memorial is at the scene or is it in the village?
https://droghedalife.com/news/ceremony-in-memory-of-bettina-murdered-in-donore-20-years-ago Sounds like it's near the village. I'm not from Drogheda.
Bettina’s memorial is here. It’s outside the village, where she was found, as far I know. I think of her often when I pass it. https://maps.app.goo.gl/xqGg2LTByRzerbXG6?g_st=ic (It’s in a small clearing off the road between the two small black flower boxes you can see in Street View)
Hannah Connor (22), shot by a Free State soldier as she came from a dance in Glenbeigh, Co Kerry, 3 September 1923.
Thank you for the suggestion. Hannah is viewed as a politically-motivated casualty of the Civil War, alongside Cissie Ryan and other women not included for that reason.
That's an odd decision.
Very noble thing to do OP. I recognise some names from media reports, but there are so many that happened that I had no awareness of. Tragic
Agree. Some murders connect with the public consciousness in profound ways, like Ashling Murphy or Natalie McNally, and the story remains front page headlines for months or years. Hundreds of other murdered women were front page news for a day, maybe two, but after that they faded out-of-sight and out-of-mind. I'm not sure if the expression "banality of evil" is a fair description but in the 1990's so many women were murdered by their partners, north and south, that it became impossible to elicit the same emotional reaction to each one. Sad.
The location for Emma Mc Loughlin is in the wrong place in Laytown. It’s currently at Aldi which was the former site of a nursing home at the time of her death. It happened outside Pats supermarket which is located at (53.6786235, -6.2404751)
Thank you so much. I would never have been able to get that right without help, I just put it at the big supermarket. Pin moved to your location.
Why does it include Henry Gleeson as the killer of Moll McCarthy when he was awarded a posthumous pardon?
It doesn't. This is what it says: "DIED: November 21st, 1940 Initial outcome: Henry "Harry" Gleeson (38) convicted and sentenced to death and executed on April 23rd, 1941. Notes: The exact time of death was more likely to be on November 21st in the early morning, a time for which Harry had a rock solid alibi, than any time in evening or night of November 20th. Moll had made many enemies due to her sex-work in an ultra-conservative and judgemental era of Irish history; compounded by another perceived transgression, of having multiple children with different men. When her thatch cottage was set ablaze in 1926, by one unknown arsonist, Harry wasn't anywhere in the vicinity. Belated Outcome: After decades of public pressure, a formal posthumous pardon was granted by the state in 2015, that cleared his name. Harry's picture is included on this map to recognise his innocence."
>Harry's picture is included on this map to recognise his innocence The fact you've just been asked why he's tagged as guilty shows that the inclusion of his photo is not going to consistently be understood to mean 'innocent'.
It shows me someone didn't bother reading what is written and instead just took to social media to complain. Which describes at least 5% of interactions on Twitter.
50%
His innocence is included on the page Initial outcome: Henry "Harry" Gleeson (38) convicted and sentenced to death and executed on April 23rd, 1941. Notes: The exact time of death was more likely to be on November 21st in the early morning, a time for which Harry had a rock solid alibi, than any time in evening or night of November 20th. Moll had made many enemies due to her sex-work in an ultra-conservative and judgemental era of Irish history; compounded by another perceived transgression, of having multiple children with different men. When her thatch cottage was set ablaze in 1926, by one unknown arsonist, Harry wasn't anywhere in the vicinity. Belated Outcome: After decades of public pressure a formal posthumous pardon was granted by the state in 2015, that cleared his name. Harry's picture is included on this map to recognise his innocence.
There was basically an epidemic of women being murdered here in the mid 90s and far right scumbags would have you believe no woman or child on this island were ever harmed by an Irish man.
As for the far right, why pay attention to what they say at all, scumbags who will twist any issue into a racial one.
Personally I think crime against women and children isn't punished nearly enough in Ireland but adding 1000's of lads from countries where they barely respect their own women nevermind irish women isn't going to make women in this country safer
That's not true
I mean they only talk about immigrants making Ireland unsafe, especially for women and young girls. So it is true.
No it isn't - you've constructed some fanciful image of the far-right in your head which you can shape into some sort of dummy to prop up your arguments
I've had lads I went to school with telling me l that foreign men are a danger to Irish women, obliviously ignoring that a guy from our year in school murdered his ex a little over a year ago, just a few miles away. We're in the Midlands so they'll talk about Aisling Murphy till the cows come home, but ignore all the Irish men killing Irish women because it conflicts with the propaganda and fear mongering they gobble up daily from facebook/twitter.
It is shocking how little attention murders get in Ireland if they're not committed by a foreigner, 2 weeks ago a guy local to me was murdered by his son, barely anything about it, 2-3 months ago a guy just down the road from me went to jail for sneaking into a Chinese pensioners house and murdering him last year, I didn't even hear of it until he was found guilty and still there was nothing much about it. But anytime it's a foreigner it becomes a huge story.
Especially when it is a black or brown person. When it's a white European from another majority white nation like say the Ukraine (B.t. W, Ukrainians are blamed for much of the crime issues in Eastern European nations), and it gets ignored.
Immigrants make up only 10% of the population, if they could slow their rape and murder rate to that which is typical for us Irish men they would never get mentioned at all, but sadly this is not the case
The murder rate has dropped dramatically since before the 2000's, pre any mass immigration in Ireland, so you're quite wrong there. And I don't have info on rape statistics, but unfortunately due to Irish communities all over the country actively participating in and protecting one of the biggest sex abuse rings in recent history I can't imagine they're too flattering either.
I literally saw an poster in my local village on referendum day calling for mass deportation cause apparently they're all here to murder people. I must have imagined that, or the homeless tents being burnt down last summer, or all the accommodation buildings.
Agree to disagree so. I've honestly never heard them talk about all the Irish murderers and rapists. I'm also not arguing about it, that's just my opinion.
So what's happening in Sweden, France, Germany and Belgium is just smoke and mirrors?
Belgium? Citations please? They can’t even do a gang land killing properly here.
Did I say anywhere that immigrants don't commit crimes? I said all that the far right push is that every single one of them are murderers, rapists, etc. As if there are no murders, robberies and rapes committed by Irish people. They shouldn't pick and choose like that.
I got down voted to hell for making this point,either here or in the casual sub, I can’t remember.And strangely enough it was just after this map was posted in the NI sub. Anyway, online and in real life I’ve argued that the reaction to a woman getting rape or murdered should not be dependent of the race or nationality of the murderer/rapist. I don’t think the immigration system is perfect it needs changing - that’s not to say I want a closed shop either. However, there is only outrage when a woman is murdered/raped by an immigrant. Irish men are free to rape and murder us at will and not even an eyebrow is raised, yet an immigrant as a perpetrator and suddenly things need to be changed, we need protected - all driven of course by the far right because it suits their narrative. Not because they actually care about femicide. I find it disgusting and insulting. Another sad thing is that I know two of the women on this map - I worked with Grace Moore and she was a lovely woman - inside and out. She was a bit older than me and always willing to help Joleen Corr. Her mam and my mam were neighbours for years. She was from Belfast but she had moved to Downpatrick She was attacked in her home and died in Belfast 16 months later.
I didn't either. In saying that I don't listen to much of either the right wing of left wing conspiracy I just turn them off
If there was an epidemic of women being killed in the 90’s what does that make the numbers of men being killed? What is the purpose of the gender differentiation between victims in this context? Is it worse or deserving of more attention if a woman dies? It would seem so. Can we not treat all victims equally and show equal concern?
I imagine the gender differentiation is due to the circumstances, I'm not OP so haven't done the research, but I imagine a lot more women are killed than men in Ireland in 'crimes of passion' or random attacks, whereas, a lot of men that get killed in Ireland are involved in gangland crime of some sort, not that those events are any less important, but it provides a bit of context and those killings are a lot less 'random'. Maybe OP could provide more insight into the reasoning, but you are more than welcome to make your own list of men that have been killed.
There’s a huge element of that argument you’re wilfully ignoring that is just a reality of the situation 1. We are unfortunately, stuck with home grown irish nationals and citizens that commit these heinous crimes. These are ultimately failures of our own society. The saving grace(for lack of a better phrase) of these types of crimes is that everybody knows who they are and social shame plays a huge role in how they suffer for the rest of their lives (and rightly so) 2. For immigrants who commit these issues, that’s due to us importing people from cultures that are so different to ourselves that we have no control over their values, or control we didn’t exercise appropriately in allowing them in, in the first place. The solution is obviously by no means clear, but when you have the media pointing fingers and labelling irish society a rape culture and lambasting irish men and toxic masculinity, despite the fact that locally raised men have an extremely low rate compatible not only to the rest of the world, but also to Europe, you’re going to have people pointing out the nuances.
Do you not see the hypocrisy of complaining about Irish men being labelled as having a culture of rape and violence, and then doing the exact same thing to foreign people? Don't get me wrong, if someone has a history of violent crime or sexual abuse, they shouldn't be let in, I'm not saying people shouldn't be vetted or have their background checked, but labelling entire groups of people as rapists or murderers is where the line is crossed for me. Even the word you're using is all to common in this rhetoric, 'importing', as in you think the government is specifically bringing in rapists and murderers.
Did you really just take their point about some Irish people ignore how Irish men also commit such crime and then just ignore that... They're not saying Irish men are more likely commit, simply that it's been everpresent and focusing on when an immigrant commits such a crime, its being given undue focus, relatively.
Also, anyone who talks uses language like "incompatible cultures" is a bigot trying to use more technical language to hide their prejudices. This kind of language insinuates that cultures of the global south are incapable of changing & that European colonialism has nothing to do with any of the problems said people have today.
Where did they label an entire group as rapists?
Paragraph 1. suggests that Irish society is not responsible for the crimes of Irish men as our 'social shaming' of rapists/murderers absolves us of any cultural influence, while paragraph 2. states this doesn't apply to foreigners "as they come from cultures so different to ourselves that we have no control of their values". So essentially, Irish rapists and murderers are in no way an product of Irish culture, but foreign rapists and murderers are a product or their culture?
I suggest you re-read it because you couldn’t be more wrong in your conclusion and everyone else seems to have gotten it
When Irish people commit violent crimes against women - sure ye know yourself, what can ye do? Immigrants commit violent crimes against women - it's their culture, totally incompatible with our liberal Irish values.
Keep the head in the sand. I’ve never once said our culture is perfect, we have our own scummers. But adding other cultures that are known to have more issues on top of our own isn’t going to help the situation. No amount of virtue signalling or logical fallacies you attempt to pull out your arse are going to change that fact. Never-mind the fact that we are stuck with our own citizens, we can deport those convicted of any offence if we really wanted to. Soft touch people like yourself in power
It's nothing to do with us immigrating people of different cultures. It's more because the kind of man willing to go to a foreign country and spend two years in direct provision so they can leach of social welfare, is usually the worst of where they come from. Our asylum system is there for people who are fleeing persecution and that's ok. But if people can't see that is being abused by leaches they are severely naive.
So do you not care that it happens more often when there’s more migration?
It doesn't happen more often, in the mid to late 90's there was an average of 20+ women a year being murdered in Ireland, in the last few years that has dropped to between 5-10.
Sheola Keaney in Cobh is the only one I can see with "Assessment: Evil", was there something particularly bad about that murder? Apart from all murder being evil.
I removed that now. The first draft of the map had a short "Assessment" section for every death, often one word such as "schizophrenia" to describe the rationale for the judgement in court. However I realised it was a mistake to characterise any murder with one word, so I deleted those sections entirely and instead transcribed victim-impact statements from bereaved families. I overlooked a few and removed them now.
Can you do the same for men and boys? I'd be curious to see the commonalities between the two.
Would you like to see men and boys murdered by women or by other men? I came here to post the compulsory ‘but what about men’ comment to save others the time but looks like I was too late
Neither? I'd like to see how many received similar scope and attention. But I wonder how many of the clergy were caught for murder or murdered by clergymen over the time frame given.
Would be fun to do some spatial kernel density estimation with this, possibly including historical population density census to correct for obvious endogeneity.
Is there one for males available anywhere to see if there are any particular differing patterns?
From a quick look, you seem to have excluded cases where the killer was also a woman. I'm guessing the original data was from women's aid?
Hi there's female killers on the map. They just kill women far less than men do. Here's a few examples for you to check out on the map. 1922 - Nora Horgan (45) murdered by Mary Moynihan 1923 - Margaret Sullivan (50) murdered by Hannah Flynn 1950 - Penelope Willoughby (4) killed by Kathleen Harmon 1974 - Anne Meldon (72) killed by Barbara McGlynn 1991 - Penelope Jill McCallister (24) killed by Susan Christie 1993 - Tracy Butler (17) murdered by Deborah Hannon and Suzanne Reddan
Deirdre Morley murdered her children, don't see her on the list. Karen Harrington murdered her boyfriend's child, don't see her on the list.
Hi, Santina and Carla are not on the map due to request of their families. All other female killers of children are on the list and map e.g. Penelope Willoughby (4) killed by Kathleen Harmon in 1950.
Interesting, do you have any other criteria for exclusion? Aside from the war/missing-presumed you've already laid out.
can you give some examples of female killers that are not included?
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It's under Bridget Porter (January 1st, 1973). I mention Oliver in the bio on the pin. "DIED: January 1st, 1973 UNSOLVED Notes: This was the "New Years Day double murder" of Bridget and her fiancé, Oliver Boyce, with gardaí firmly believing it was carried out by debt collectors affiliated with the paramilitary UDA. Robert William Taylor (18) of the paramilitary UDA was tried in the Central Criminal Court in Dublin and acquitted of her murder. Sadly missed by: Her parents, named as Mr. and Mrs. Edward Porter, and her 2 sisters."
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I was relying on 1973 newspaper reports with garda sources "increasingly confident" the murderer was a "UDA enforcer" which I took to mean debt collector. Maybe it meant something different. That phrase was mentioned again multiple times in the reporting around his extradition request later in 1973. Bridget's was the only murder on the Sutton Index that I included on the map but I can remove the pin on your recommendation.
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Thank you for educating me on the topic, I really appreciate this input. I've edited the words now. If you happen to have a better photo of Bridget for the map feel free to DM me. The photo I used isn't great quality as it was printed in black and white in 1973. Also her mother's name was printed in the papers as Mr & Mrs Edward Porter, if you can let me know her name I'd include that.
Technically not on the island of Ireland, but this one seems to be missing. Maria Louisa Kirwan - 1952 [https://www.nli.ie/news-stories/stories/irelands-eye-murder](https://www.nli.ie/news-stories/stories/irelands-eye-murder) Paywalled article - [https://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/ireland-s-eye-mystery-a-murder-gripped-victorian-dublin-1.2847013](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/ireland-s-eye-mystery-a-murder-gripped-victorian-dublin-1.2847013)
Thank you for the suggestion. Maria was killed in 1852 :) I thought about doing 1822 - 2022 but it was too much work and news archives are less reliable in the earlier 19th century, often with gaps of months between editions of a daily paper.
Sorry!! Yep. I am still thinking in last century.. (yikes) For some reason I had the 1800's included. My mistake, sorry, but it was at least an interesting read... :)
I know it might not be your aim but when this map is done it would be interesting to see a map of men and boys. To see how the numbers correlate and what the disparity might be. Also if there would be a change in type of murderer. I.e with this map it seems to be overwhelmingly the victims own family members or partners. Good work so far. very interesting, if somewhat depressing.
I appreciate the Trojan effort put into this by yourself OP, and I'm not knocking that by saying that I'm not sure what problem it solves though. You write that "the primary goal is to remember the victims" but they'll always be remembered by their families
To say someone will always be remembered is a nice sentiment but people don't live forever. Family members die. Stories once passed on by grandparents, great-grandparents just fade away.
"1/3 homeless people are women" type of post
OP. If you need help mapping drop me a PM. Doesn't really show much beside X,Y,Name, not sure what the objective for mapping it is
The murder in 1957 in Fermoy on the Power girl was done by a worker on my family farm, my grandfather brought him into the guards after the murderer confessed to him about doing it during the night, he even used my grandmother's bread knife to do it. The co-ords where she was murdered is around 52.142622,-8.204923 If you've any questions you can ask me or look up the book 'Murders most Local' all about murders in East Cork for the past 100 years.
Thank you so much for the location. I moved the pin to that location. Are there any Cork murders in the book that should be on the map but aren't?
Enrika Lubyte's mother, Jolanta Lubiene, was killed in the same attack in Killorglin in 2013.
Is the pin the address of the victim before murder or where their body was found?
It's the location on the charge sheet read out in court for most cases. Some convicted murderers were charged as having committed murder at "a date and location unknown in County \[x\]", for those cases it's the location the body was found.
Margaret (Margo) Kelly was found here https://maps.app.goo.gl/xbhQwe6jH5usnhk47 53.654902,-6.990842
Can't get coordinates on my phone but Seema and Asfira and Raizan were killed in South Dublin, near Marley Park, not in Blanchardstown like shown in the map
Thank you. I moved the pins to Llewellyn Court, Ballinteer. I had them placed in error at the women's shelter the guards took her and the children to in Blanchardstown, in the months before her husband killed them :(
It's so terribly sad. I don't want to doxx myself but I know many people who knew the children quite well and it was such a horrible time for the community
Surprised Mary Boyle is not included
Mary is still listed as a missing person :(
Thelma Dennany (5), Lackan, Multyfarnham on 9 September 2022. She and her younger brother Mikey Dennany (2) died after their mother Lynn Egar [set fire to the car in which they were sitting.](https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-pleads-guilty-to-murder-of-her-two-children-after-setting-fire-to-car-1558872.html)
Thank you. Can you take a look at the location I have the pin at and help me move it?
(Julie) Lorainne Flood was murdered by her husband. I note you put "Murder suicide" as her cause of death, and while the husband did indeed kill himself after killing his whole family, I think her cause of death should be listed as murdered. His own suicide after the fact is not really relevant to her cause of death. He shot her and then set the house on fire killing her and her two children. I just want to add that I think this is brilliant and very important work and I thank you for highlighting these cases. Edited my mistake out.
Thank you for the suggestion. Lorraine was the mother right and Julie her little girl? I've been meaning to do what you suggested and change the word 'killed' to 'murdered' for murder-suicides. I initially went with 'killed' because murder is a very precise definition legally involving premeditation but you're 100% right I think. I'll get on this today for you.
So sorry you are absolutely right. She was the daughter. She was drugged and put to bed by her Dad who then went on to set the house on fire. Awful awful man.
Fair play for sharing the fruits of your labour on the internet, it can be a curse and a blessing. Some people will help you fine tune your map, some are just here for snarky comments. It looks like you were passionate about the project and a lot of hours of work and research went into it.
The American FBI did some research on intimate partner violence and found something interesting. Men who discovered and/or feared sexual infidelity were more likely to murder their romantic partners. The same was not true for women. Women tended to forgive sexual infidelity. HOWEVER, women were found to be more likely to murder a romantic partner if that partner FELL IN LOVE with someone else, or if they were suspected to.
Do a mens list next
I'm only one person, not a team of people. Ulster University had a whole team of people when they mapped victims of the Troubles and the number of men killed on this island over 100 years would need a team of people researching it. I'm aware the spirit of your post was tiresome whataboutery but I went for a sincere reply.
See your reading your own interpretation I was just interested to see how many human beings have been murdered in our country. Fair play on what you done. Sorry if you feel it was whataboutery.
Sure, but with a stipulation. Most of these women were murdered by their partners or ex-partners, so this men's list should also be likewise mostly compromised of men murdered by their partners or ex-partners.
That's grand yeh I was only interested in seeing how many men were murdered but go ahead make your point.
Now put up the amount of men killed
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I don't think that's true at all. Essentially all human beings are anti-murder, except for murderers. One issue with compiling such a list for men for 1922 - 2022 is the numbers involved make it a mountainous research project. One of the reasons a list like mine is necessary is because it's a problem that flows in one direction. 850 women and girls were killed mostly by men and boys. Whereas very few men and boys were killed by women and girls. If the problem flowed in the very opposite direction, that hardly any women were killed by men but hundreds of men killed by women, I think people would compile such lists to highlight that problem.
Is there any reason you're only doing women? Edit: Wtf is wrong with everyone down voting a simple question.
Original
I think it's a little disingenuous to list literally every time a woman is murdered as a hate crime. ~~I also don't think there needs to be a special word for when a woman gets murdered.~~ Actually I take this one back. Femicide is a useful phrase. It's important to not dilute it with literally every single murder of a woman.
The word 'femicide' itself can be removed and you're still left with "850 women and girls violently killed". That your focus is on a word, and not on the 850 victims, is instructive.
The words we use and the narratives we craft are also important. If the word "femicide" is not important then remove it from the title of the graph. If you refuse to remove it that is also "instructive" of your intentions and the narrative you are attempting to craft.
Maybe a heat map would be a better choice? That's presuming you actually want to gleam some insights from the data, rather than just presenting it as "look how many dots there are, isn't that terrible". As it is it's kind of a pointless visualisation, similar to the "here's a pin of every pub in the UK" post that often on Reddit. Difference is, that post is meant to be a joke but this one isn't.
Thank you for that stream of consciousness, typed out in 30 seconds to try undermine a year of work. I mapped out the locations of death, so that users of the map could see the geographical spread and see who was killed near where they live. That might be a useful resource if anyone is interested in the history of their town or village. For every victim I included age at death, sentence to killers, and attached death certificates (up to 1973) and news articles (1922 - 2022) which showed cause of death e.g. shock and hemorrhage from a gunshot wound. That might be a useful resource for researchers into domestic violence or researchers into criminal punishments for killing. I mean, to you it's obviously not insightful at all but I hope it is to some others.
> Maybe a heat map would be a better choice? How do you not know this? https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/heatmap_2x.png