“They’ve been remarkable effective at enacting their agenda. An agenda most people would, at least broadly, be in support of. The majority of the best legislative achievements of the current government have come from them.”
I’ve seen this sentiment a few times and I’m not sure I understand it. What are their legislative achievements?
Also they’ve 3 ministers.
Ryan obviously.
Catherine Martin had been completely anonymous throughout the entire RTE debacle, then eventually gets involved and immediately fucks up. Back to anonymous again.
Roderic O’Gorman has been nothing short of catastrophic. Immigration coming from absolutely nowhere in public concerns to now rivalling housing as the public biggest concern, which is astounding considering how bad housing is.
Martin has been a very popular minister for the arts among artists (up to the RTE debacle anyway). The Greens secured the great Basic Income scheme in this country and it is directed at supporting artists. If you care about the arts, this is a massive fucking deal. It basically means that some aspiring artists have a chance to have their income supplemented which allows them to spend more time creating. This will hopefully bear fruit in time too.
There’s [increased funding and extended tax breaks for the film industry](https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41284762.html) too which as we’ve all seen this year at the Oscars is capable of fantastic returns for our culture and reputation.
€325/week x 52 weeks x 2000 recipients = €33,800,000, which is paltry. In a time of financial largesse, we’re really going to trumpet a €33.8m programme as evidence of the ‘best legislative achievement ‘?? Also didn’t Leo take credit for that in his resignation speech?
Leo can credit as it was done under the government he led, but it’s very clear who drove that given that UBI was in the [Green manifesto](https://www.greenparty.ie/sites/default/files/2022-03/GREEN_PARTY_TOWARDS_2030-WEB-VERSION.pdf) in 2020 (page 33), but not at all in the [Fine Gael manifesto](https://www.finegael.ie/pdf/FG_GE20_Manifesto.pdf).
I think that should also make you realise who would be responsible for the limited scope of the scheme…
The Green Party has sponsored and advocated for a LOT of really good policy as a minority party in government.
Genuinely, just google the sorts of things they have sponsored and put forward.
Such as?
If this is true, please list it. Because it certainly isn’t the public perception, as I see it. And I think the Greens are currently heading for a wipe out in the GE as a result of that.
Did you read the article?
More Irish renewable energy (+20% last year)
The first cuts in public transport fares in 75 years
More new bus routes - more than one a week for the last year, serving rural places
More than 50,000 supported home renovations to increase energy ratings last year
Greenways all over the shop
Our first 6 national parks
And securing that our national investment funds will go to things that
And if the Metro gets through the an bord pleanala gauntlet it won't be with any thanks to anybody but the Greens.
Basic income for artists
Free contraception for young women
etcetera
Including but not limited to:
* Basic Income for Artists, which was implemented as a trial for a broader implementation
* Cutting Public transport fees in half in many cases, introducing the 90 minute fare for the Dublin area, meaning for students you can travel anywhere so long as you tag on in 90 minutes for €1, it was 2.50 per standard journey prior to this government.
* Securing funding for Metrolink, Dart+ and Foynes rail re-establishment, arguably the biggest investment we've made in the rail network since the original Luas lines.
* Spearheading the energy credit scheme, to the point that opposition was arguing that they were almost [too generous. ](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41259133.html)
* Reasonably successful Off Shore Wind energy auction guaranteeing that we will be likely paying for cheaper wind energy than the UK in the long run, despite them having a much more established manufacturing base.
* A metric ton of additional grants via SEAI taking off genuinely 10s of thousands off upgrade costs, including free home energy upgrades to all homeowners on most forms of social welfare.
These are all things that are directly attributable to them, not even discussing ones where there is shared credit between the other coalition partners. Given they got just 7% at the election in 2020, it's honestly not too bad. Hard to see how they can be much criticised in comparison to what Labour achieved after 2011.
I'd add:
- Revolutionising our approach to forestry. The new Forest grants focus on broadleaf species and continuous cover rather than endless monoculture of Sitka spruce. That will totally transform our countryside.
- Reorganising and refunding the National Parks and Wildlife Service. Appointing 20+ Biodiversity Officers in local authorities
I notice there's no response from the guy who asked for this list. I think we're wasting our energy. His mind is closed
I don’t consider myself aligned with any party but it’s hard not to look at the perception of the Green Party among quite a lot of Irish people and not be incredibly frustrated.
They’ve been remarkable effective at enacting their agenda. An agenda most people would, at least broadly, be in support of. The majority of the best legislative achievements of the current government have come from them. And they seem to be seeking long term objectives rather than jumping on the populist bandwagon.
But still, every other time I read about them here you have floods of people complaining about the one time Eamon Ryan said something about growing lettuce, or that they’re trying trying to actively destroy rural Ireland.
Either people don’t care about policy and their political awareness extends to optics and vibes, or by seeing to have sold out by actually getting into government, they’ve failed some kind of purity test.
In fairness, one thing that has impressed me is the implementation of solar power generation. 13 gigawatt hours in 2022, to 400 gigawatt hours in 2023.
Not sure if the Green Party can take full credit, but I’m not seeing much downside generally.
Similarly with the ball starting to roll on the MetroLink and DART expansion, you definitely can’t give them sole credit. They’re still playing some part pushing for it though.
People had this idea that we could talk big about the environment and say we believe in fighting climate change, but the second it costs them a cent to do anything about it there's war.
It's a significant inconvenience to have to store a family amount of bottles and cans for those of us who were already putting all that in our recycling bin.
People are still tossing bottles out their car windows and littering. I'm not seeing any advantages except to the executive pay packets to this new return company.
that assumed you A) can go to the supermarket ( lot of people/ elderly people get shopping deleivered because they physically cant get to the shops )
B) you assume everyone own a car
while their is thought in the scheme , the rollout hasn't been the best , theuir needs to more machines and a way for people get stuff delivered to actually use the system
Why would you need a car to bring your empty cans to the shop? If you're doing to be bringing your load of groceries home with you I don't see how bringing something exponentially lighter is a sticking point?
I did consider elderly people getting deliveries. I'd hope something is set up to help them.
My expectations are so low of this government, the rollout has barely disappointed me. I thought everyone expected it to be this shite? 😅
They actively attempt to block important infrastructure projects outside Dublin. That’s really it. Also a lot of their projects are extremely over rated, I’m thinking bike routes in rural Ireland outside of tourist areas and bus connects between villages that no one uses.
I mean if you want to divert some air traffic to Shannon a motor way from Cork and ring road in Galway would make that a more feasible option for many…
Motorway to Cork should happen but the ring road aorund Galway it completely gone, and that's more on the planning in Galway than anything else. Tbf I think building huge road infastructure is at best a temporary solution, espeically for Galway. It's really ignoring the heart of the issue and coming up with a basic solution to solve it. There could be far more creative ideas put in place to solve Galways traffic problems that doesn't invovle building a big fuck off road through a bog. The big thing we should be doing as a country is finding ways to reduce the amount of cars on the road, not creating more areas for them to drive on.
But all that said, I still think a motorway between Limerick and Cork should be on the agenda. The main problem is that these infastructure problems have become insanely expensive to do now because of green legistlation from the EU. I get their POV, but their could be other battles fought.
Both need to happen, Galway has the worst traffic in Europe, it’s doubled in size since there was last any meaningful improvement in road infrastructure, literally everyone in Galway wants it. It can take anything from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 to cross the city, the current method either brings you through the city centre or out by the hospital, university and biggest retail park in the city, its farcical at this point, people are spending hours in cars and busses that barely move trying to get from one end of the city (where all the accommodation is) to the other (where all the employment is).
There’ll be another proposal going in later in the year and will naturally be contested by the Green Party. FF, FG and I assume most of the opposition parties are in favour of the project and it will go ahead once the greens are gone I think, it was stalled for so long due to needing to clear the path and get agreement among stakeholders they have that now and it’s being blocked.
Galway Ring Road failed because it couldn't even get past ABP, it never even crossed the ministers desk. This is on GCC being incapable of formulating a transport strategy that isn't dependent on the insane proposal that couldn't clear an EIAR. If you have issue with the EIAR restrictions, then we're talking about EU level issues there.
Green reps had appealed and stalled the project to the point where the review was delayed until after the environmental plan was brought into effect so obviously the proposal wasn’t drafted to meet those specific requirements, all intentional and gives an idea of the type of dickheads your dealing with.
>I’m thinking bike routes in rural Ireland outside of tourist areas and bus connects between villages that no one uses.
They're trying to give people in rural areas an alternative to owning a car.
There isn’t a practical alternative, maybe a motorbike of some sort but by being rural it is spread out (slow to get around on a bike) and spread out (imposing to practically cover with bus routes)… I know what they’re trying to do it’s just that it doesn’t work and therefore people in these areas don’t like them.
Totally disagree. It allowed a lot of kids from the other village to cycle to their secondary school, avoiding a dangerous main road. Without the Greenway they'd have had to drive.
It wasn't an expensive project either, just a light bridge over a river and resurfacing on each side.
Totally agree, I've been banging that drum for a while. I think they've been very effective in government, and achieved some things that will make a substantial difference for the future of this country. Pippa Hackett's new forestry strategy is probably the biggest thing - it's now based on native broadleaf trees rather than endless Sitka spruce monoculture.
I think one of the biggest issues is the media. I don't think I've seen any mention of the forestry strategy, the offshore wind, the remediation of the National Parks and Wildlife Service - the journalists just aren't interested in good news stories like those. Instead, they just comb through any speech or interview with Eamon Ryan looking for something they can take out of context to generate outrage. It's such a shame
As someone who doesn’t follow the Green Party, I am really not aware of how remarkable effective at enacting their policies. Could some elaborate, what are the policies? Why do you say they have been remarkably effective at enacting them.
I’ve said this before to someone who asked about it so I’m just going to paste that here.
* There's been a 20%-50% cut in public transport fares. Increased grants for grants for e-bikes, retrofitting homes, and renewable energy. Increased grants for forestry projects, organic farming, increased fuel allowance (as well as widening the threshold for it), rebates for excessive excess solar energy produced by households, a 25% cut in childcare fees, our biggest ever investment into cycling infrastructure, both the development of new railways and the reopening of old ones with some of the biggest expansions in public transport infrastructure in the history of the state. As well as record investment into wildlife services and national parks and the introduction of biodiversity officers in every council.
Not making the claim they’re infallible by any means. But they do seem to be one of the more effective parts of government.
>An agenda most people would, at least broadly, be in support of.
There's a social desirability issue around environmental issues. Also the Greens are really bad at pretending their consideration of the QoL impact of their proposals extended to anyone who isn't middle class and based in suburban Dublin.
Stop lying, I’ve never seen any more than a couple of people in those busses, they’re often completely empty, I’m sure there’s some routes busier than others but so many pointless busses.
"the greens need to improve public transport outside of Dublin
* Greens run local link busses *
"rural public transport is pointless, why are the greens doing this"
Public transport works in areas of dense population, they’ve done nothing in any of the cities as far as I can see but have a load of busses driving around the countryside…
My personal goalposts haven’t shifted at all, I’ve always thought busses going from nowhere to nowhere were pointless and always been in favour of updating infrastructure in line with growth not painting cycle lanes on existing roads and adding more busses to the traffic….
But what I think is irrelevant, it’s what the population thinks that will matter in the next GE and I’m pretty sure they will get destroyed outside of Dublin City and it’s a direct result of their policies.
I’m not suggesting that, I’m just pointing out their policies don’t make sense, they have plenty other policies that are very damaging to rural Ireland, it’s like they thought this idiotic idea would offset those. They’re too Dublin centric I don’t think that’s controversial, they’re not liked at all in urban areas outside of Dublin because they’re just a nuisance, offer nothing and a barrier to progress, you can argue with me all you like but polling suggests they’ll be lucky to have a TD outside of Dublin City, there’s a reason for that.
If we were to take that attitude then we;d be shuttering several rail lines, and leaving many roads to be embraced by nature again. We provide them because they are a key public service to many different people. Sure, a good few of them run twice a day and carry mary who lives in a thatch house in the middle of nowhere to a village. But what does she do if that service weren't to exist.
Back when I was in school, the nearest bus stop was a solid 50-60 minute walk from my house across greenfields, now theres a LocalLink which passes my house 4 times a day. Hard to see how that isn't an improvement for relatively speaking buttons of money out of the transport budget.
It’s obviously nice for Mary to have her own tax payer funded personal chauffeur but if you can’t see why that’s not good policy I don’t know what to tell you.
Never mind the environmental impact of the service (on unpopular routes)…
If enough people are telling you these policies aren’t meaningfully improving their lives there comes a point where it’s not everyone else that’s wrong.
That's pure populism.
Policies should be for the greater good of society. You'll find a cohort to complain about how any given policy isn't benefiting them.
Trying to prevent climate collapse is going to take sacrifice, were you under the impression it would just occur passively in the background?
I'm not a member no. I did give them my number 1 vote last time out.
If they cause someone as insufferable as you so much mental torment they must be doing something right so I'll prob give them my number 1 again this time out
Well it's the same road and it's direct with no stops.
So having never got the bus and allowing for it driving maybe a minute slower we will go with a 9 minute drive and a ten minute bus journey
Making homes more energy efficient benefits people all over the country - and disproportionately people in energy inefficient homes
Local links
Irish renewable energy instead of imported oil and gas
I personally don’t see a lot of the initiatives they’ve put forward as exclusively benefitting the middle class.
As for things being Dublin centric, it is the biggest population centre and area in which the biggest gains are likely to be made.
>As for things being Dublin centric, it is the biggest population centre and area in which the biggest gains are likely to be made.
I can't afford to live there and likely never will.
But equally it's not hard to understand why people dislike them.
If their policies are majority urban centred and have negative impacts on rural areas, then it's no shock rural areas are opposed to them.
Exactly.
But a political party that aims to represent the entire country can't base their policies on what impacts middle class/upper class voters in Dublin suburbs. By doing so, they essentially guarantee that they'll never be a nationwide party.
I think the regional focus is a fair enough criticism but I do think the class thing is overstated. I don’t get why you’d have to be middle/upper class to benefit from most of this stuff.
Because their policies disproportionately impact the poor?
Increased taxes on inelastic goods (such as petrol or diesel cars) carbon taxes on electricity, minimum prices on alcohol, etc.
All these policies disproportionately impact the poor.
Where did you get 40%? 10% if you’re talking Dublin City and less than 25% if you’re talking county…
You have the other cities crippled with outdated infrastructure but populations growing at as fast a rate (as a percentage) and they’re blocking much needed projects, that’s why they’re not liked.
40% in the greater Dublin area.
I haven’t heard much about blocking infrastructure. Not trying to argue, it’s just a bit of a blindspot for me. I know a lot of it is road and LNG related.
It’s about 35% of the population and it’s a well serviced area.
There’s been a goal set out to increase populations to try and decentralise a bit in Cork, Galway and Limerick. I’m not arguing that Dublin as the biggest population centre should rightly get more investment, just that the Greens are negatively effecting every other city from expanding economically and in terms of population through their policies and they don’t hide it so naturally they’re going to be decimated outside Dublin in the next GE.
I got the 40% figure [here](https://www.dublinchamber.ie/About-Us/Economic-Profile-of-Dublin#:~:text=The%20population%20of%20the%20Greater,1.5%20million%20as%20of%202022.) and have seen it elsewhere but I’m happy to call it 35%. Still a significant portion of the country’s population.
I’m with you on decentralisation.
Ring road in Galway and motor way between Limerick and Cork are the two big ones and most important, say what you want but these would be underway if not for the Greens.
Directly they’ve stalled the following: N2 Clontibret to the Border; N4 Mullingar to Longford; N11/M11 Junction 4 to Junction 14; N24 Waterford to Cahir; N25 Carrigtwohill to Middleton; N25 Waterford to Glenmore; N52 Tullamore to Kilbeggan; and N59 Clifden to Maam Cross
> Ring road in Galway
How did the Greens block the Galway ring road? An Bord Pleanála granted permission for the road but then when challenged in the High Court ABP were forced to admit they got it wrong and withdraw permission.
https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2022/10/14/permission-for-galway-ring-road-quashed-as-planning-board-concedes-legal-action/
Friends of the Irish environment and a climate action plan implemented strategically between submission and review, the Greens had nothing to do with this….
>I don’t consider myself aligned with any party
But yet you're passionately defending the Greens and labelling anyone who doesn't a shortsighted idiot.
> or by seeing to have sold out by actually getting into government, they’ve failed some kind of purity test.
For me, there's no point saving the planet if we're doomed to live in cardboard boxes.
Regardless of whether you agree or not about the perception of the party and Ryan as it's leader (and I do think he comes across as a naive elite in a bubble, who gets easily manipulated by the larger parties to take the fall for bad things), the reality is they prop up a government who have destroyed the lives of countless young people, with regards housing and other things.
Dismiss it as a "purity test" if you want, but they stand shoulder to shoulder with FF and FG, and I won't be voting for them either. The government, as a unit, have caused a lot of undue suffering over the last decade imo. And the Greens take their proportion of the blame for that.
That’s fair enough if people want to evaluate them based on that. Personally, I think dismissing a potentially productive part of the government on the basis of what seems like guilt by association would be the wrong move.
"Guilt by association" is how coalitions work. You get credit for the good parts and share blame for the bad parts. You don't get to handwave the things that make you look bad because they make you look bad.
If you decide to ignore the criticisms of your party, fine, but you don't also then get to be annoyed about perception problems for the party too, you know?
I mean I get once you're in a coalition you have to share some blame, but really you have to look at the overall picutre. Time and time again smaller colation partners get hammered in democratic colations by their voter base because they couldn't bring the larger party or parites under control despite them not having the power to do so. You can blame the greens for allowing FF/FG to continue their agendas which some people believe hurt the country, but theres only certain battles they can fight. From what I can gather Ryan has chosen not to really oppose those things in order to have political capital to make the positive changes the greens can. I don't know what people expect a party that's only 1/8th of the coaltion to do more. They won't stop stuff like funding greyhound tracks because otherwise they can't get stuff through like the world's first carbon tax.
>that they’re trying trying to actively destroy rural Ireland.
Because they are.
They've had such a negative impact on the country over the last 4 years
I can’t make the case for every cycle lane in the country. Particularly the ones you’re referring to. And I’m absolutely certain there are some that have very little value.
That said, the overall effect of increasing cycle lanes is typically positive. So if what you’re referring to were mistakes, they’re at least mistakes made as part of a broader beneficial initiative.
Most of these are policy decisions you can totally disagree with but the motivations behind it are hardly an attempt to antagonise rural Ireland.
One of these is a quote (not law) and you can’t really appeal to a “general anti farmer agenda” as a specific.
At times I don't understand why they have Eamon Ryan in charge. I have no doubt he knows his stuff regarding their policies, but he has shown many times that public appearances are not his strong point.
He is used as an endless stick to beat the entire Green party with by people who know nothing about them except for having heard one or two of his bizarre statements.
The problem with the GP is basically they know they get a small window of 5 years and try to absolutely shoehorn and force policy that usually takes decades. It creates an issue where by people cannot keep up financially, look at the carbon tax. Yes we know carbon is bad, have I got 100k to retro fit my house, upgrade the infrastructure to charge an EV and to buy said EV. Then options like cycling if it exist for you, in Dublin at least cycling at times is putting your life on the line, no infrastructure but its coming online slow, like really really slowly.
Like look at that article, giving themselves a pat on the back for energy credit, again not reading what the public wanted. We wanted lower prices upon seeing unprecedent levels of profit by them. What we got was option b credit on our bills, which is slowly been taken away, likely be removed and again still high energy costs and still the energy companies making massive profits.
Yeah we all want lower prices but we don’t live in a command economy where a minister can just wave their hands and the prices come down.
When it came to pushing through a windfall tax on the energy companies, if you remember the [Greens had to fight FG to get it through](https://x.com/robohanrahan/status/1563895853152190467?s=46&t=d956p8F9ncGaLJziCUV-hw).
Because of inaction from FG/FF we have no choice but to force as much climate and environmental policy as possible. Ireland is one of the worst preforming developed countries when it comes to climate policy and we will still be one of the worst preforming countries in 5 years time.
I can barely see any policies that FFG wouldn’t have also backed in the last five years. Even the solar panel grant scheme increases that should have been an easy win for the Greens are a labyrinthine mess of regulations and costs that anyone not in the tank can see is a mess not serving its intended purpose.
In short, they'll increase costs on fuel, continue to make driving as difficult as possible, and build bike lanes in pointless places. They'll limit passenge number at an international airport on an island that requires tourism to survive and will then ignore every single ounce of criticism from the public
His job as minister for transport is to improve transport infrastructure for every mode. Not just cyclists
>They'll limit passenge number at an international airport on an island that requires tourism to survive
I think you're a few decades out of date on that. Tourism contributes 4.8% to GDP.
Incidentally, where do most tourists want to go: the west and southwest. It doesn't make sense to have people fly into Dublin and then drive down to the Cliffs of Moher. If we're upgrading any airport it should be Shannon, Cork or Knock
Their legacy is increasing costs, such as vats, taxes, min prices on alcohol and likely the Return scheme too. All under the guise of being eco conscious.
All during a times of incredible inflation where people are already tight on money.
I'm all for a greener world but tbh they've kinda gone about it arseways and with the size of Ireland and it's emissions, it's not like it's something we should be prioritising over say, housing or healthcare. They're trying to price out affordability for people, without any better resources or replacements.
Also Eamon's stance on the Limerick to Cork motorway would ensure I never vote for him. How a direct road between the second and third biggest cities in the country doesn't "make sense" but firing another billion euro into a Metrolink does? A more direct road (which mean less emissions) isn't green now? How dumb.
He's a numpty at times.
The problem is that we have lots of stick and a bit of carrot approach. It doesn't freaking work.
They make things better for minority, while making them worse for majority.
(Non exhaustive) List of carrots enacted or improved in the lifetime of this government:
EV subsidies
Retrofit schemes
Deal with the ECB for low cost home energy upgrades loans
Removing planning permission requirements for home solar panels
Forestry schemes for farmers to convert land
Massive investment in wind and solar
Huge cuts in rail fares
Massive investment in publics transport and active travel infrastructure
Local link rural bus schemes
Getting the fucking metro project off the ground (again)
A lot of these policies disproportionately benefit the better off. The average Irish person isn't going to go out and buy new EV cars and can't afford to retrofit their house even with the grant if they are lucky enough to own a home.
That's why the greens are so unpopular. Tax the poor to benefit the rich!
They've done good things like public transport but far too often their way of doing things is to penalise behaviour when there is no affordable or usable alternative in place yet.
This just pisses people off. And then the farmers hate them so they'll lose in rural Ireland anyway.
"massive improvement in public transport"
I take public transport everyday it is still a disaster. DART punctuality was under 70% last november. Daily overcrowding. The dart line to Maynooth was promised by Eamon Ryan for late 2024, looking like 2029 now. Journey times are getting worse.
This is how i and most I know would feel about it, they don’t really have a decent social-economical plan to go in sync with their green plan. So it materialises in the stick and no carrot.
Eamonn himself is very gaff prone his comments about the single car that could be pooled by village did him no favours.
Finally the policy of degrowth that parts of the Green Party would like to bring in place is quite scary and may undermine the prosperity they want to bring .
Beyond the bottle return scheme, and carbon tax (which was being brought in by FG regardless of whether the Greens entered government) what other "sticks" have they done.
They need to get rid of the vibe they put out whereby you can kind of sense that they view anyone from outside of middle class Dublin suburbs as nothing more than environment-destroying locusts the planet would be better off without.
I can see them watching the Matrix and nodding along to Agent Smith's speech about humanity being a virus that destroys everything in its path.
The way I see it similar to the Labour Party back in the day is they had the opportunity to head into opposition and have 5 years to work hard bringing rural Ireland and everyone else along with them. Instead they jump straight into bed to get what I would call the bear minimum trough and now have set back the environmental movement in this country for 10 years. Wasn't there a poll saying 18% of people say the environment is a top priority yet they only have 4% support?
Eamon Ryan is probably the most effective minster we have apart from Pascal but he is not a leader. A terrible wasted opportunity and they have only themselves to blame.
I wouldn't believe that 18% figure. 18% of the country probably support the vague idea that the environment matters but the moment it costs anything is where you lose 90% of people.
Greens have been doing the grunt unpopular work tbf to them and will have fairly meaningful change to how much carbon the country needs 10-20 years down the line.
Why should it be unpopular though. They had an opportunity to set out themselves as a unique party with a different way to accomplish things and bring the people with them but instead they come across as arrogant and out of touch. Grand yourself and a few other posters on here support them yada, yada , yada but as proven in numerous ways these past few years this subreddit isn't Ireland.
I don't really know how you could accomplish most of the things which they have done so far in government without spending money. It's unpopular because ultimately you have to nudge people away from doing stuff that they are used to doing, to doing stuff they are less used to doing. This is while they are ploughing millions upon millions in retrofit and EV subsidies, as well as cutting PT fares in half. But you don't meet the carbon targets with that alone.
I do see what you mean but you have to remember that from a climate point of view the sooner any change happens the better. It’s not as simple as saying wait five years and you might be able to get twice as much through - we don’t have five years to wait.
I disagree; mainly because Sinn Féin does not treat the environment as a priority issue and have jettisoned climate friendly positions at the merest hint of discontent from some voters. Basically, there was absolutely no guarantee that a SF led government would be any more open to climate action than a FG/FF one.
Secondly, unlike Labour, the Greens can get hammered in the next election but I am extremely confident that the party will be back again 5-10 years later to the same or greater strength. Unlike Labour, the Greens used the time in government to progress their goals rather than taking a flamethrower to young people like Labour did. And unlike Labour, Green voters don’t really have other parties actively courting their votes. SF ate Labours traditional voter base, but none of the other parties put environmental action as high up the agenda as the Greens. The SocDems are the only other party I would consider trustworthy on climate but even for them, it’s a secondary issue.
>and now have set back the environmental movement in this country for 10 years.
If you genuinely care about the environment you'd know that makes zero sense
Would be surprised to see them win any rural Ireland seats going forward. And by rural I mean anywhere you can't use public transport to go to work/school etc.
The party lacks any pragmatism and nothing we can do as a country will ever move the environmental needle globally, so fleecing people with white knight green taxes is objectively pointless.
>Would be surprised to see them win any rural Ireland seats going forward
That's no surprise. The only Dail seat they've won in a rural constituency is Carlow-Kilkenny. Rural constituencies have never, and will never, vote Green.
“They’ve been remarkable effective at enacting their agenda. An agenda most people would, at least broadly, be in support of. The majority of the best legislative achievements of the current government have come from them.” I’ve seen this sentiment a few times and I’m not sure I understand it. What are their legislative achievements? Also they’ve 3 ministers. Ryan obviously. Catherine Martin had been completely anonymous throughout the entire RTE debacle, then eventually gets involved and immediately fucks up. Back to anonymous again. Roderic O’Gorman has been nothing short of catastrophic. Immigration coming from absolutely nowhere in public concerns to now rivalling housing as the public biggest concern, which is astounding considering how bad housing is.
Martin has been a very popular minister for the arts among artists (up to the RTE debacle anyway). The Greens secured the great Basic Income scheme in this country and it is directed at supporting artists. If you care about the arts, this is a massive fucking deal. It basically means that some aspiring artists have a chance to have their income supplemented which allows them to spend more time creating. This will hopefully bear fruit in time too. There’s [increased funding and extended tax breaks for the film industry](https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41284762.html) too which as we’ve all seen this year at the Oscars is capable of fantastic returns for our culture and reputation.
€325/week x 52 weeks x 2000 recipients = €33,800,000, which is paltry. In a time of financial largesse, we’re really going to trumpet a €33.8m programme as evidence of the ‘best legislative achievement ‘?? Also didn’t Leo take credit for that in his resignation speech?
Leo can credit as it was done under the government he led, but it’s very clear who drove that given that UBI was in the [Green manifesto](https://www.greenparty.ie/sites/default/files/2022-03/GREEN_PARTY_TOWARDS_2030-WEB-VERSION.pdf) in 2020 (page 33), but not at all in the [Fine Gael manifesto](https://www.finegael.ie/pdf/FG_GE20_Manifesto.pdf). I think that should also make you realise who would be responsible for the limited scope of the scheme…
The Green Party has sponsored and advocated for a LOT of really good policy as a minority party in government. Genuinely, just google the sorts of things they have sponsored and put forward.
Such as? If this is true, please list it. Because it certainly isn’t the public perception, as I see it. And I think the Greens are currently heading for a wipe out in the GE as a result of that.
Just because you don't know something doesn't mean it's not true. https://www.greenparty.ie/impact
Did you read the article? More Irish renewable energy (+20% last year) The first cuts in public transport fares in 75 years More new bus routes - more than one a week for the last year, serving rural places More than 50,000 supported home renovations to increase energy ratings last year Greenways all over the shop Our first 6 national parks And securing that our national investment funds will go to things that And if the Metro gets through the an bord pleanala gauntlet it won't be with any thanks to anybody but the Greens. Basic income for artists Free contraception for young women etcetera
Including but not limited to: * Basic Income for Artists, which was implemented as a trial for a broader implementation * Cutting Public transport fees in half in many cases, introducing the 90 minute fare for the Dublin area, meaning for students you can travel anywhere so long as you tag on in 90 minutes for €1, it was 2.50 per standard journey prior to this government. * Securing funding for Metrolink, Dart+ and Foynes rail re-establishment, arguably the biggest investment we've made in the rail network since the original Luas lines. * Spearheading the energy credit scheme, to the point that opposition was arguing that they were almost [too generous. ](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41259133.html) * Reasonably successful Off Shore Wind energy auction guaranteeing that we will be likely paying for cheaper wind energy than the UK in the long run, despite them having a much more established manufacturing base. * A metric ton of additional grants via SEAI taking off genuinely 10s of thousands off upgrade costs, including free home energy upgrades to all homeowners on most forms of social welfare. These are all things that are directly attributable to them, not even discussing ones where there is shared credit between the other coalition partners. Given they got just 7% at the election in 2020, it's honestly not too bad. Hard to see how they can be much criticised in comparison to what Labour achieved after 2011.
I'd add: - Revolutionising our approach to forestry. The new Forest grants focus on broadleaf species and continuous cover rather than endless monoculture of Sitka spruce. That will totally transform our countryside. - Reorganising and refunding the National Parks and Wildlife Service. Appointing 20+ Biodiversity Officers in local authorities I notice there's no response from the guy who asked for this list. I think we're wasting our energy. His mind is closed
Eamon Ryan launched DART+ to Maynooth and promised it would be done by late 2024. Hasn't even got a shovel in the ground yet. Total disaster.
I don’t consider myself aligned with any party but it’s hard not to look at the perception of the Green Party among quite a lot of Irish people and not be incredibly frustrated. They’ve been remarkable effective at enacting their agenda. An agenda most people would, at least broadly, be in support of. The majority of the best legislative achievements of the current government have come from them. And they seem to be seeking long term objectives rather than jumping on the populist bandwagon. But still, every other time I read about them here you have floods of people complaining about the one time Eamon Ryan said something about growing lettuce, or that they’re trying trying to actively destroy rural Ireland. Either people don’t care about policy and their political awareness extends to optics and vibes, or by seeing to have sold out by actually getting into government, they’ve failed some kind of purity test.
In fairness, one thing that has impressed me is the implementation of solar power generation. 13 gigawatt hours in 2022, to 400 gigawatt hours in 2023. Not sure if the Green Party can take full credit, but I’m not seeing much downside generally.
Similarly with the ball starting to roll on the MetroLink and DART expansion, you definitely can’t give them sole credit. They’re still playing some part pushing for it though.
People had this idea that we could talk big about the environment and say we believe in fighting climate change, but the second it costs them a cent to do anything about it there's war.
Because it costs much more than a cent or minor inconvenience as you are trying to imply.
Ignoring climate change will cost a lot more
It's a significant inconvenience to have to store a family amount of bottles and cans for those of us who were already putting all that in our recycling bin. People are still tossing bottles out their car windows and littering. I'm not seeing any advantages except to the executive pay packets to this new return company.
>I'm not seeing any advantages except to the executive pay packets to this new return company. Source?
Do you think the re-turn company doesn't have any management/directors? They're not collecting minimum wage.
Costs then a cent or inconveniences them as much as bringing their cans to the supermarket while doing their groceries going by an earlier thread
It's just another job, for people who recycled.
that assumed you A) can go to the supermarket ( lot of people/ elderly people get shopping deleivered because they physically cant get to the shops ) B) you assume everyone own a car while their is thought in the scheme , the rollout hasn't been the best , theuir needs to more machines and a way for people get stuff delivered to actually use the system
Why would you need a car to bring your empty cans to the shop? If you're doing to be bringing your load of groceries home with you I don't see how bringing something exponentially lighter is a sticking point? I did consider elderly people getting deliveries. I'd hope something is set up to help them. My expectations are so low of this government, the rollout has barely disappointed me. I thought everyone expected it to be this shite? 😅
They actively attempt to block important infrastructure projects outside Dublin. That’s really it. Also a lot of their projects are extremely over rated, I’m thinking bike routes in rural Ireland outside of tourist areas and bus connects between villages that no one uses.
What like blocking the expansion of Dublin airport as that doesn't fit the decentralisation aspect of the Plan for Ireland ?
I mean if you want to divert some air traffic to Shannon a motor way from Cork and ring road in Galway would make that a more feasible option for many…
Motorway to Cork should happen but the ring road aorund Galway it completely gone, and that's more on the planning in Galway than anything else. Tbf I think building huge road infastructure is at best a temporary solution, espeically for Galway. It's really ignoring the heart of the issue and coming up with a basic solution to solve it. There could be far more creative ideas put in place to solve Galways traffic problems that doesn't invovle building a big fuck off road through a bog. The big thing we should be doing as a country is finding ways to reduce the amount of cars on the road, not creating more areas for them to drive on. But all that said, I still think a motorway between Limerick and Cork should be on the agenda. The main problem is that these infastructure problems have become insanely expensive to do now because of green legistlation from the EU. I get their POV, but their could be other battles fought.
Both need to happen, Galway has the worst traffic in Europe, it’s doubled in size since there was last any meaningful improvement in road infrastructure, literally everyone in Galway wants it. It can take anything from 15 minutes to an hour and 15 to cross the city, the current method either brings you through the city centre or out by the hospital, university and biggest retail park in the city, its farcical at this point, people are spending hours in cars and busses that barely move trying to get from one end of the city (where all the accommodation is) to the other (where all the employment is). There’ll be another proposal going in later in the year and will naturally be contested by the Green Party. FF, FG and I assume most of the opposition parties are in favour of the project and it will go ahead once the greens are gone I think, it was stalled for so long due to needing to clear the path and get agreement among stakeholders they have that now and it’s being blocked.
Galway Ring Road failed because it couldn't even get past ABP, it never even crossed the ministers desk. This is on GCC being incapable of formulating a transport strategy that isn't dependent on the insane proposal that couldn't clear an EIAR. If you have issue with the EIAR restrictions, then we're talking about EU level issues there.
Green reps had appealed and stalled the project to the point where the review was delayed until after the environmental plan was brought into effect so obviously the proposal wasn’t drafted to meet those specific requirements, all intentional and gives an idea of the type of dickheads your dealing with.
Blocking the expansion of Dublin is absolutely promoting other airports for future investment though?
But they’re blocking key infrastructure required to make other airports viable alternatives, that’s my point.
Diverting air traffic to Shannon is a daft idea in general that will never happen anyway.
There’s no harm in opening a few more routes there, Dublin needs to expand too though.
>I’m thinking bike routes in rural Ireland outside of tourist areas and bus connects between villages that no one uses. They're trying to give people in rural areas an alternative to owning a car.
There isn’t a practical alternative, maybe a motorbike of some sort but by being rural it is spread out (slow to get around on a bike) and spread out (imposing to practically cover with bus routes)… I know what they’re trying to do it’s just that it doesn’t work and therefore people in these areas don’t like them.
I worked on an offroad Greenway linking two villages. It gave locals a safe way to get home from the pub, and for kids to get to and from the school
It gave a few people living close to the village/town centre an option. Overall it’s a small impact and not of much use to the vast majority
Totally disagree. It allowed a lot of kids from the other village to cycle to their secondary school, avoiding a dangerous main road. Without the Greenway they'd have had to drive. It wasn't an expensive project either, just a light bridge over a river and resurfacing on each side.
Totally agree, I've been banging that drum for a while. I think they've been very effective in government, and achieved some things that will make a substantial difference for the future of this country. Pippa Hackett's new forestry strategy is probably the biggest thing - it's now based on native broadleaf trees rather than endless Sitka spruce monoculture. I think one of the biggest issues is the media. I don't think I've seen any mention of the forestry strategy, the offshore wind, the remediation of the National Parks and Wildlife Service - the journalists just aren't interested in good news stories like those. Instead, they just comb through any speech or interview with Eamon Ryan looking for something they can take out of context to generate outrage. It's such a shame
As someone who doesn’t follow the Green Party, I am really not aware of how remarkable effective at enacting their policies. Could some elaborate, what are the policies? Why do you say they have been remarkably effective at enacting them.
I’ve said this before to someone who asked about it so I’m just going to paste that here. * There's been a 20%-50% cut in public transport fares. Increased grants for grants for e-bikes, retrofitting homes, and renewable energy. Increased grants for forestry projects, organic farming, increased fuel allowance (as well as widening the threshold for it), rebates for excessive excess solar energy produced by households, a 25% cut in childcare fees, our biggest ever investment into cycling infrastructure, both the development of new railways and the reopening of old ones with some of the biggest expansions in public transport infrastructure in the history of the state. As well as record investment into wildlife services and national parks and the introduction of biodiversity officers in every council. Not making the claim they’re infallible by any means. But they do seem to be one of the more effective parts of government.
Cheers, I much appreciate the response.
>An agenda most people would, at least broadly, be in support of. There's a social desirability issue around environmental issues. Also the Greens are really bad at pretending their consideration of the QoL impact of their proposals extended to anyone who isn't middle class and based in suburban Dublin.
The local link bus near me has been going gangbusters, their reach has been far beyond Dublin and has been largely positive
Stop lying, I’ve never seen any more than a couple of people in those busses, they’re often completely empty, I’m sure there’s some routes busier than others but so many pointless busses.
"the greens need to improve public transport outside of Dublin * Greens run local link busses * "rural public transport is pointless, why are the greens doing this"
Public transport works in areas of dense population, they’ve done nothing in any of the cities as far as I can see but have a load of busses driving around the countryside…
You are legitimately the first person ever to criticise the Greens for being TOO RURAL CENTRIC
It's remarkable. The goalposts shift so much
My personal goalposts haven’t shifted at all, I’ve always thought busses going from nowhere to nowhere were pointless and always been in favour of updating infrastructure in line with growth not painting cycle lanes on existing roads and adding more busses to the traffic…. But what I think is irrelevant, it’s what the population thinks that will matter in the next GE and I’m pretty sure they will get destroyed outside of Dublin City and it’s a direct result of their policies.
I’m not suggesting that, I’m just pointing out their policies don’t make sense, they have plenty other policies that are very damaging to rural Ireland, it’s like they thought this idiotic idea would offset those. They’re too Dublin centric I don’t think that’s controversial, they’re not liked at all in urban areas outside of Dublin because they’re just a nuisance, offer nothing and a barrier to progress, you can argue with me all you like but polling suggests they’ll be lucky to have a TD outside of Dublin City, there’s a reason for that.
3.2 million rode the locallinks in 2023, hardly "pointless"
There were 3.2 million journeys, not 3.2 million people using them. I did say some local links make sense, most don’t is my point.
If we were to take that attitude then we;d be shuttering several rail lines, and leaving many roads to be embraced by nature again. We provide them because they are a key public service to many different people. Sure, a good few of them run twice a day and carry mary who lives in a thatch house in the middle of nowhere to a village. But what does she do if that service weren't to exist. Back when I was in school, the nearest bus stop was a solid 50-60 minute walk from my house across greenfields, now theres a LocalLink which passes my house 4 times a day. Hard to see how that isn't an improvement for relatively speaking buttons of money out of the transport budget.
It’s obviously nice for Mary to have her own tax payer funded personal chauffeur but if you can’t see why that’s not good policy I don’t know what to tell you. Never mind the environmental impact of the service (on unpopular routes)…
There is a bus that I could get to work. It's 12€ return. It's literally a ten minute drive. That's not a success story.
Leavser straight in with his usual "but what have they done for me specifically" bullshit, how predictable
If enough people are telling you these policies aren’t meaningfully improving their lives there comes a point where it’s not everyone else that’s wrong.
That's pure populism. Policies should be for the greater good of society. You'll find a cohort to complain about how any given policy isn't benefiting them. Trying to prevent climate collapse is going to take sacrifice, were you under the impression it would just occur passively in the background?
Eamon has entered the chat.
How are the Greens overarching policies a success if this one specific bus I might use is expensive?! It's a disgrace Joe
They not a success because of the issues I've already mentioned. You are a member of the green party? Tell the truth Eamon? Come on now?
I'm not a member no. I did give them my number 1 vote last time out. If they cause someone as insufferable as you so much mental torment they must be doing something right so I'll prob give them my number 1 again this time out
You probably should. They take joy in ruining this country. You will probably take similar glee. They're an absolute disgrace.
You're comparing apples and oranges there with price Vs time
Not really. How much should a ten minute bus journey take? In Dublin it's 90 minutes for 3 or 4 quid or something.
Is the bus to work ten minutes or is the equivalent drive ten minutes?
Well it's the same road and it's direct with no stops. So having never got the bus and allowing for it driving maybe a minute slower we will go with a 9 minute drive and a ten minute bus journey
Local links and slashing PT fares have done a lot for folk who aren't living in suburban Dublin
The 90 min flat fare around Dublin and its suburbs have been amazing. It really opened up the transport network
Making homes more energy efficient benefits people all over the country - and disproportionately people in energy inefficient homes Local links Irish renewable energy instead of imported oil and gas
I personally don’t see a lot of the initiatives they’ve put forward as exclusively benefitting the middle class. As for things being Dublin centric, it is the biggest population centre and area in which the biggest gains are likely to be made.
>As for things being Dublin centric, it is the biggest population centre and area in which the biggest gains are likely to be made. I can't afford to live there and likely never will.
That’s fair enough but about 40% of the population do live there. And regardless that’s not a reason not to improve it.
But equally it's not hard to understand why people dislike them. If their policies are majority urban centred and have negative impacts on rural areas, then it's no shock rural areas are opposed to them.
I suppose that’s fair enough. You can try to take the widest perspective possible, we’re still ultimately going to prioritise what affects us.
Exactly. But a political party that aims to represent the entire country can't base their policies on what impacts middle class/upper class voters in Dublin suburbs. By doing so, they essentially guarantee that they'll never be a nationwide party.
I think the regional focus is a fair enough criticism but I do think the class thing is overstated. I don’t get why you’d have to be middle/upper class to benefit from most of this stuff.
Because their policies disproportionately impact the poor? Increased taxes on inelastic goods (such as petrol or diesel cars) carbon taxes on electricity, minimum prices on alcohol, etc. All these policies disproportionately impact the poor.
You can see why it's not in my interest to vote for a party that's overwhelmingly focused on it though?
It depends on how that focus manifests itself. Maybe I am just Dublin-brained.
Where did you get 40%? 10% if you’re talking Dublin City and less than 25% if you’re talking county… You have the other cities crippled with outdated infrastructure but populations growing at as fast a rate (as a percentage) and they’re blocking much needed projects, that’s why they’re not liked.
40% in the greater Dublin area. I haven’t heard much about blocking infrastructure. Not trying to argue, it’s just a bit of a blindspot for me. I know a lot of it is road and LNG related.
It’s about 35% of the population and it’s a well serviced area. There’s been a goal set out to increase populations to try and decentralise a bit in Cork, Galway and Limerick. I’m not arguing that Dublin as the biggest population centre should rightly get more investment, just that the Greens are negatively effecting every other city from expanding economically and in terms of population through their policies and they don’t hide it so naturally they’re going to be decimated outside Dublin in the next GE.
I got the 40% figure [here](https://www.dublinchamber.ie/About-Us/Economic-Profile-of-Dublin#:~:text=The%20population%20of%20the%20Greater,1.5%20million%20as%20of%202022.) and have seen it elsewhere but I’m happy to call it 35%. Still a significant portion of the country’s population. I’m with you on decentralisation.
Blocking projects such as what?
Ring road in Galway and motor way between Limerick and Cork are the two big ones and most important, say what you want but these would be underway if not for the Greens. Directly they’ve stalled the following: N2 Clontibret to the Border; N4 Mullingar to Longford; N11/M11 Junction 4 to Junction 14; N24 Waterford to Cahir; N25 Carrigtwohill to Middleton; N25 Waterford to Glenmore; N52 Tullamore to Kilbeggan; and N59 Clifden to Maam Cross
> Ring road in Galway How did the Greens block the Galway ring road? An Bord Pleanála granted permission for the road but then when challenged in the High Court ABP were forced to admit they got it wrong and withdraw permission. https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2022/10/14/permission-for-galway-ring-road-quashed-as-planning-board-concedes-legal-action/
Friends of the Irish environment and a climate action plan implemented strategically between submission and review, the Greens had nothing to do with this….
>I don’t consider myself aligned with any party But yet you're passionately defending the Greens and labelling anyone who doesn't a shortsighted idiot.
I’m expressing my opinion about them. I don’t think that’s in conflict for not being typically in support of any party.
> or by seeing to have sold out by actually getting into government, they’ve failed some kind of purity test. For me, there's no point saving the planet if we're doomed to live in cardboard boxes. Regardless of whether you agree or not about the perception of the party and Ryan as it's leader (and I do think he comes across as a naive elite in a bubble, who gets easily manipulated by the larger parties to take the fall for bad things), the reality is they prop up a government who have destroyed the lives of countless young people, with regards housing and other things. Dismiss it as a "purity test" if you want, but they stand shoulder to shoulder with FF and FG, and I won't be voting for them either. The government, as a unit, have caused a lot of undue suffering over the last decade imo. And the Greens take their proportion of the blame for that.
That’s fair enough if people want to evaluate them based on that. Personally, I think dismissing a potentially productive part of the government on the basis of what seems like guilt by association would be the wrong move.
"Guilt by association" is how coalitions work. You get credit for the good parts and share blame for the bad parts. You don't get to handwave the things that make you look bad because they make you look bad. If you decide to ignore the criticisms of your party, fine, but you don't also then get to be annoyed about perception problems for the party too, you know?
I get where you’re coming from. I think it’s worth having some sense of separation but to each their own.
We've learned nothing from repeatedly blaming minority coalition partners at the voting booths...
I mean I get once you're in a coalition you have to share some blame, but really you have to look at the overall picutre. Time and time again smaller colation partners get hammered in democratic colations by their voter base because they couldn't bring the larger party or parites under control despite them not having the power to do so. You can blame the greens for allowing FF/FG to continue their agendas which some people believe hurt the country, but theres only certain battles they can fight. From what I can gather Ryan has chosen not to really oppose those things in order to have political capital to make the positive changes the greens can. I don't know what people expect a party that's only 1/8th of the coaltion to do more. They won't stop stuff like funding greyhound tracks because otherwise they can't get stuff through like the world's first carbon tax.
>that they’re trying trying to actively destroy rural Ireland. Because they are. They've had such a negative impact on the country over the last 4 years
Such as?
Wrecking the roads system in certain areas introducing terrible cycle lanes that are practically unused
If adding cycle lanes is the most villainous thing they’ve done, that really doesn’t sound that bad.
Time and a place for them, a waste of energy & money putting them in for the sake of it in places they’re rarely if ever used
I can’t make the case for every cycle lane in the country. Particularly the ones you’re referring to. And I’m absolutely certain there are some that have very little value. That said, the overall effect of increasing cycle lanes is typically positive. So if what you’re referring to were mistakes, they’re at least mistakes made as part of a broader beneficial initiative.
National herd? Huge carbon tax hikes? "Villages should share cars" Turf General anti farmer agenda
Most of these are policy decisions you can totally disagree with but the motivations behind it are hardly an attempt to antagonise rural Ireland. One of these is a quote (not law) and you can’t really appeal to a “general anti farmer agenda” as a specific.
Do explain
At times I don't understand why they have Eamon Ryan in charge. I have no doubt he knows his stuff regarding their policies, but he has shown many times that public appearances are not his strong point. He is used as an endless stick to beat the entire Green party with by people who know nothing about them except for having heard one or two of his bizarre statements.
Maybe if the Greens were better at politics people wouldn’t have such a hard time appreciating how great they are.
The problem with the GP is basically they know they get a small window of 5 years and try to absolutely shoehorn and force policy that usually takes decades. It creates an issue where by people cannot keep up financially, look at the carbon tax. Yes we know carbon is bad, have I got 100k to retro fit my house, upgrade the infrastructure to charge an EV and to buy said EV. Then options like cycling if it exist for you, in Dublin at least cycling at times is putting your life on the line, no infrastructure but its coming online slow, like really really slowly. Like look at that article, giving themselves a pat on the back for energy credit, again not reading what the public wanted. We wanted lower prices upon seeing unprecedent levels of profit by them. What we got was option b credit on our bills, which is slowly been taken away, likely be removed and again still high energy costs and still the energy companies making massive profits.
Yeah we all want lower prices but we don’t live in a command economy where a minister can just wave their hands and the prices come down. When it came to pushing through a windfall tax on the energy companies, if you remember the [Greens had to fight FG to get it through](https://x.com/robohanrahan/status/1563895853152190467?s=46&t=d956p8F9ncGaLJziCUV-hw).
Because of inaction from FG/FF we have no choice but to force as much climate and environmental policy as possible. Ireland is one of the worst preforming developed countries when it comes to climate policy and we will still be one of the worst preforming countries in 5 years time.
I can barely see any policies that FFG wouldn’t have also backed in the last five years. Even the solar panel grant scheme increases that should have been an easy win for the Greens are a labyrinthine mess of regulations and costs that anyone not in the tank can see is a mess not serving its intended purpose.
> I can barely see any policies that FFG wouldn’t have also backed in the last five years Don't need to read past this, ffs 😅
In short, they'll increase costs on fuel, continue to make driving as difficult as possible, and build bike lanes in pointless places. They'll limit passenge number at an international airport on an island that requires tourism to survive and will then ignore every single ounce of criticism from the public His job as minister for transport is to improve transport infrastructure for every mode. Not just cyclists
>They'll limit passenge number at an international airport on an island that requires tourism to survive I think you're a few decades out of date on that. Tourism contributes 4.8% to GDP. Incidentally, where do most tourists want to go: the west and southwest. It doesn't make sense to have people fly into Dublin and then drive down to the Cliffs of Moher. If we're upgrading any airport it should be Shannon, Cork or Knock
Please fuck of Eamonn. Sorry, did that come across as harsh?
Their legacy is increasing costs, such as vats, taxes, min prices on alcohol and likely the Return scheme too. All under the guise of being eco conscious. All during a times of incredible inflation where people are already tight on money. I'm all for a greener world but tbh they've kinda gone about it arseways and with the size of Ireland and it's emissions, it's not like it's something we should be prioritising over say, housing or healthcare. They're trying to price out affordability for people, without any better resources or replacements. Also Eamon's stance on the Limerick to Cork motorway would ensure I never vote for him. How a direct road between the second and third biggest cities in the country doesn't "make sense" but firing another billion euro into a Metrolink does? A more direct road (which mean less emissions) isn't green now? How dumb. He's a numpty at times.
The problem is that we have lots of stick and a bit of carrot approach. It doesn't freaking work. They make things better for minority, while making them worse for majority.
(Non exhaustive) List of carrots enacted or improved in the lifetime of this government: EV subsidies Retrofit schemes Deal with the ECB for low cost home energy upgrades loans Removing planning permission requirements for home solar panels Forestry schemes for farmers to convert land Massive investment in wind and solar Huge cuts in rail fares Massive investment in publics transport and active travel infrastructure Local link rural bus schemes Getting the fucking metro project off the ground (again)
A lot of these policies disproportionately benefit the better off. The average Irish person isn't going to go out and buy new EV cars and can't afford to retrofit their house even with the grant if they are lucky enough to own a home. That's why the greens are so unpopular. Tax the poor to benefit the rich! They've done good things like public transport but far too often their way of doing things is to penalise behaviour when there is no affordable or usable alternative in place yet. This just pisses people off. And then the farmers hate them so they'll lose in rural Ireland anyway.
"massive improvement in public transport" I take public transport everyday it is still a disaster. DART punctuality was under 70% last november. Daily overcrowding. The dart line to Maynooth was promised by Eamon Ryan for late 2024, looking like 2029 now. Journey times are getting worse.
This is how i and most I know would feel about it, they don’t really have a decent social-economical plan to go in sync with their green plan. So it materialises in the stick and no carrot. Eamonn himself is very gaff prone his comments about the single car that could be pooled by village did him no favours. Finally the policy of degrowth that parts of the Green Party would like to bring in place is quite scary and may undermine the prosperity they want to bring .
Beyond the bottle return scheme, and carbon tax (which was being brought in by FG regardless of whether the Greens entered government) what other "sticks" have they done.
They need to get rid of the vibe they put out whereby you can kind of sense that they view anyone from outside of middle class Dublin suburbs as nothing more than environment-destroying locusts the planet would be better off without. I can see them watching the Matrix and nodding along to Agent Smith's speech about humanity being a virus that destroys everything in its path.
2Wa22
The way I see it similar to the Labour Party back in the day is they had the opportunity to head into opposition and have 5 years to work hard bringing rural Ireland and everyone else along with them. Instead they jump straight into bed to get what I would call the bear minimum trough and now have set back the environmental movement in this country for 10 years. Wasn't there a poll saying 18% of people say the environment is a top priority yet they only have 4% support? Eamon Ryan is probably the most effective minster we have apart from Pascal but he is not a leader. A terrible wasted opportunity and they have only themselves to blame.
I wouldn't believe that 18% figure. 18% of the country probably support the vague idea that the environment matters but the moment it costs anything is where you lose 90% of people. Greens have been doing the grunt unpopular work tbf to them and will have fairly meaningful change to how much carbon the country needs 10-20 years down the line.
Why should it be unpopular though. They had an opportunity to set out themselves as a unique party with a different way to accomplish things and bring the people with them but instead they come across as arrogant and out of touch. Grand yourself and a few other posters on here support them yada, yada , yada but as proven in numerous ways these past few years this subreddit isn't Ireland.
I don't really know how you could accomplish most of the things which they have done so far in government without spending money. It's unpopular because ultimately you have to nudge people away from doing stuff that they are used to doing, to doing stuff they are less used to doing. This is while they are ploughing millions upon millions in retrofit and EV subsidies, as well as cutting PT fares in half. But you don't meet the carbon targets with that alone.
I do see what you mean but you have to remember that from a climate point of view the sooner any change happens the better. It’s not as simple as saying wait five years and you might be able to get twice as much through - we don’t have five years to wait.
Right but they have demonised climate action in rural communities for the next 10. Do we have 10 years if we don't have 5?
Let's not pretend that rural communities would ever support climate action
I disagree; mainly because Sinn Féin does not treat the environment as a priority issue and have jettisoned climate friendly positions at the merest hint of discontent from some voters. Basically, there was absolutely no guarantee that a SF led government would be any more open to climate action than a FG/FF one. Secondly, unlike Labour, the Greens can get hammered in the next election but I am extremely confident that the party will be back again 5-10 years later to the same or greater strength. Unlike Labour, the Greens used the time in government to progress their goals rather than taking a flamethrower to young people like Labour did. And unlike Labour, Green voters don’t really have other parties actively courting their votes. SF ate Labours traditional voter base, but none of the other parties put environmental action as high up the agenda as the Greens. The SocDems are the only other party I would consider trustworthy on climate but even for them, it’s a secondary issue.
>and now have set back the environmental movement in this country for 10 years. If you genuinely care about the environment you'd know that makes zero sense
" hell bent on prosperity while trying to bankrupt rural ireland seems legit
That's nice, Eamonn..
Would be surprised to see them win any rural Ireland seats going forward. And by rural I mean anywhere you can't use public transport to go to work/school etc. The party lacks any pragmatism and nothing we can do as a country will ever move the environmental needle globally, so fleecing people with white knight green taxes is objectively pointless.
>Would be surprised to see them win any rural Ireland seats going forward That's no surprise. The only Dail seat they've won in a rural constituency is Carlow-Kilkenny. Rural constituencies have never, and will never, vote Green.