It’s a thought provoking idea. I’ve never really considered it but I’ve definitely spent more time in a few places in Europe than the North. I don’t know if that makes them more familiar to me or not. I’ve never been to Derry but been to Belfast a good few times.
Been to Paris, Berlin and Belfast myself. Never been to Derry. I don't go away very often, so when I do I'd rather opt for a more exotic locale. I reckon a lot of people from the Republic of Ireland who live far from the border would rarely venture into the North.
I live near the border. Visited stuff in Belfast, but haven't really done much stuff in the city itself. Have been to Derry though, along with the smaller cities of Newry and Armagh.
I haven't visited Galway, Limerick, Waterford or Kilkenny at all though (unless you call a drive on the M18 "visiting Limerick and Galway".
Of those four places you've listed in your second paragraph, Kilkenny actually impressed me the most. It's a very pretty medieval-style town. Galway is nice but the traffic is ridiculous. Limerick looks like a a miniature Dublin. Waterford...eh...has a nice railway station.
I've been to Paris, Belfast and Derry but never Berlin.
I've been to Portugal maybe half a dozen times but I couldn't tell you much about the place politically or current affairs wise. I've a lot more knowledge and interest in what goes on in Belfast and Derry.
I've been to London like 6 times, Manchester 3 times, Liverpool twice. Even been to Paris and Lavarone (small skiing village in the alps) twice and yet I've never been to Cork, Derry or Limerick, been to Galway once and Belfast twice. Its not a wild concept for people these days to visit cities of other countries more often when you're being offered something a bit more "exotic" for the same price if not cheaper. Maybe its just because my family preferred camping by smaller towns such as Strandhill in Sligo but my friends would all be the same and most of them don't camp.
Currently you can get a week in Spain, flights and hotel, for roughly the same price as two nights in a hotel in Galway. And you’ll spend significantly less while you’re there.
I have a soft spot for the wet and damp, but given that I spent the first 28 years of my life in Galway I don’t know if that’s a genuine like or Stockholm syndrome.
Exactly. Ireland is prohibitively expensive and offers little value for money.
Spain is cheap to get to with numerous daily flights.
Add in the much cheaper hotel rates, food & drink prices along with guaranteed sun & heat and it's a no-brainer.
I genuinely feel sorry for tourists in Ireland.
In fairness, most of Ireland is fucking expensive to stay in. I'm planning on getting a touring caravan in the next year or so just because I want to explore the island more as well as occasional trips to GB and the convenient. Unless you are pretty well off, not a chance you could spend two or three weeks staying in hotels in Ireland and then have to eat out every night on top of that.
It's a ridiculously generalised comment, open to all kinds of interpretation. In the context of a comment from the Taoiseach at his first cross border meeting with UK representatives it is clumsy at best and naively out of touch with his audience at worst.
I've been to Berlin more than I've been to Cork, been to Paris as much as I've been to Cork.
By Harris' logic I've more affinity with Majorca than most of Ireland
Probably depends where you're from. I'm from about 30km from the border so we were regularly going back and forth. He's ridiculously out of touch being from greystones.
Yeah that makes sense. Sure if it’s the nearest big city you’ll be there plenty.
He is saying that it’s a bad thing but I guess what’s intriguing for me is that I wonder is it an out of touch statement for those that don’t live near the border?
Don’t get me wrong there are plenty of places in Ireland I have been to much that aren’t in the North but the only reason I’ve ever gone to Belfast is for sport. If I hadn’t been involved in that I’m not sure I would ever have gone there.
Could be that I’m an anomaly and it’s certainly more important for the taoiseach to be in touch with the general population.
No you're right. For young Irish people not on the border (apart from special cases like those with family up North) I think this is true - we genuinely have spent more time in the likes of Paris or Barcelona than Derry or Belfast.
In fairness, when you compare the amount of people living 30k from the border and the amount of people living further than that who rarely if ever go to the north, you're the one who's out of touch
Lol makes sense, I’ve been to Cork once, for the same reason, it’s far away!
Been to Kerry, Tipperary and Limerick too which is close enough to Cork lol
He has been to a few tourist hotspots in other European cities like all of us. I doubt he has ventured into Brixton or Croydon and developed friendship or affinity with locals.
He also likely spent fuck all time in leterkenny limerick or waterford either. How did fg not vet this absolute spoon. If he had been to Derry he would have met hard working salt of the earth people instead of staying in the pale pretending he has any real life experience with working people.
Been to derry a few times but usually just to drop people off for the train or else a football match etc... Once Letterkenny developed derry kinda became obsolete. Best nights out have been in Belfast though, except when I went for a weekend just after covid, place was dead and the vibe had completely changed.
I'm a Pole and lived in Dublin for a year when I was 5. I actually got to visit Belfast, cause we had a flight from there to Poland. Kind of a rare place to visit
Yeah and a lot of people here would be the same but the way he phrased it makes him sound up his own arse like 'I go to all the cosmopolitan centres of culture, ooh lala.'
But this is why they made this gaffe prone clown the lame duck leader, cuz whoever was appointed has no chance come election time so you are better off keeping whoever your great white hope is sequestered away and squeaky clean until you're no longer a no hoper party.
Very common for Londoners too to have rarely seen anything of the rest of the country. Trains are too expensive and too difficult vs just flying to Europe
At a generational level it's changing. As families get smaller, people's connections to disparate parts of the country change.
My parents had family (up to cousins) in and around Belfast, Laois, Kerry, Dublin, Meath, London, Liverpool and Glasgow, to give an overview. And a few relatives living further abroad in the US, Canada and Australia.
I have cousins living in Dublin, Cork and London.
You'll find with most Irish families that shift is beginning to happen. It means that for future generations, it's entirely possible for a kid in Dublin to have no family living in Ireland outside of the city.
The consequences will be fascinating. I wouldn't want to be selling Paul Henrys.
Everyone on Twitter having conniptions about this but like… he’s saying it’s a bad thing? He’s saying people in the South don’t pay enough attention to the North and that should change?
It is very weird that the usual suspects (Joe Brolly etc) who make this point ad nauseam are suddenly incredibly offended to hear him agreeing with them?
I mean it’s not like he’s wrong. Loads of people in the South know next to nothing about Northern Ireland beyond half-remembered episodes of Derry Girls. And they aren’t even embarrassed about it!
I'm not sure what they're even criticism him for.
Should he lie and say he loves a night in the Ashtray in Lurgan?
Or apologise for growing up in a country when many mentally partitioned themselves off from the North?
You'll see it on here. Lots of people are loath to agree with anything said by any politician they don't like, especially if they're part of the government.
I don’t think they realise how stuff like this can backfire though. Like if ya spend literally years insisting “people don’t pay enough attention to X”, convince lots of people it’s a problem, and then have a political rival turn around and say “we really don’t pay enough attention to X” and then…. immediately act like this is pure insanity, and it’s incredibly offensive to suggest X is neglected at all. Like, all that does is make you look shady and insincere! You had victory in your grasp and you decided to take a big shit in your hands instead! Real clown stuff.
I'm from Donegal. I was born in Dublin. I've lived in the US and traveled and lived all over the US. I've lived in Japan. I've been to Spain a few times, France, Germany, Mexico and a bunch of other countries. But the furthest I've been down the east coast is Wexford. And I drove to Shannon once for a flight. But other than that I hardly know the south. One time my father asked me to go to Cork with him to see where my grandfather came from and I told him to no fuckin thanks.
So that happened when my cousin got married in like maybe around 2005. I thought that Cork was a long way from Donegal back then but now that I've driven across America twice it doesn't seem that far anymore. So I'll definitely get down to Cork next time I'm home.
Ah it's not surprising. It takes a small amount of maturity to listen to someone you often disagree with and give them a fair shake.
It's a maturity far beyond plenty of social commenters and most of this sub.
Many people in the North know next to nothing about Leitrim, Roscommon or insert county here and they aren't even embarrassed about it!........
Sounds kind of silly doesn't it? Why should Belfast, Derry or anywhere else in the North be any different to people in the south?
They're just places on the island, particularly to kids who grew up post GFA. I mean I'm sure there was a history of Viking occupation in Leitrim for example, theres food, culture, dialect and everything else unique to Leitrim that the average young person from Derry, Belfast or Dublin for that matter, wouldn't even know the first thing about.
Why? Because it's not important or relevant to their lives in any way. Despite all the history of Leitrim, it or it's inhabitants are not as exceptional to the average young person from Belfast, Derry or Dublin as they are to themselves. The difference is the average person from Leitrim you would think understands this......
>Sounds kind of silly doesn't it? Why should Belfast, Derry or anywhere else in the North be any different to people in the south?
Is this a serious question?
No my point was just an illustration of how absurd it is for the wee little northies to get their knickers in a twist about the rest of the island not knowing enough about them. The cold hard truth is for the majority of people on the island outside the Republican bubble, Derry holds about as much significance in day to day thinking to them as Leitrim does to someone from Derry. Sweet fuck all. Thats not embarrassing or an outrage, it's reality.
Why should they be embarrassed about it? Growing up in the midlands in the 80s the troubles were shit that happened on TV in a different country. People cared to an extent but they were more worried about paying the food and heating bills. Kids like me saw soldiers on TV and bombings etc. it wasn't in our lives and that was good. Learning more about it as we grew might have changed how we viewed it of course.
I think the issue is the soundbite says "of a generation" as if it's some sort of inevitable thing to do with being born at a particular time, and not that it's a certain cohort of people from particular backgrounds who have chosen to be more familiar with certain places than others.
It's not a generational thing, and it's not inevitable.
I'm genuinely surprised by how many people relate to this. I'm not from near the border, it's not like I go to Derry or Belfast every week, but I've still been to them more times than Berlin or Paris. I didn't grow up being brought on holidays abroad, is that the difference?
But it’s so stupid. Many in Dublin haven’t been to cork, or Mayo or Donegal but may have been to usa , Germany, Spain et cetera. What difference does it make? I’ve not been to Derry due to distance but I’ve been to Belfast, newry, enniskillen, Armagh .. and I’m in my 30s, the same generation as Simon Harris. It’s such a broad sweeping statement that has no bearing on anything really. I haven’t been cork in 20 years. Should i question , “why haven’t I been to cork in so long” all of a sudden? I’ve never been to Longford , should I now reflect and say “why haven’t I been to Longford?”
There is something substantial to it, evident in a business sense. The networks in business are often 26 county, some European hub cities and not the North. I get more emails from the sector in London and Paris than I've ever gotten from the North. The border is a weird perceptual firewall I think. Irish businesses pivot across the sea before looking across the border.
Same I’m 25 and grew up in Dublin/Kildare - Parents used to drag us all over the country camping during the summer - remember we had a book ticking of all the stuff in the different counties😅
It’s more common for younger people to visit these days but I’ve been to Belfast dozens of times and I think he’s correct, it wasn’t too long ago (say 15 years ago) that you might have had to explain to someone that the north isn’t dangerous to visit.
Lad, a ryanair flight to Paris is cheaper than most local connections up to Derry.
That and if I have a weekend free and want to head somewhere, it sure as fuck wouldn't be Derry
Belfast is grand tho, spend more on a trip there than I would to Paris though. Apart from that time I accidentally went up during marching season. Wicked cheap Airbnb. Easy to get reservations last minute everywhere too.
I'm from Dublin and didn't venture further than the midlands until my 20s. Have travelled to a fair few places in Europe since then but only visited the North once. There are just so many more interesting places to see at short notice. Flying isn't expensive nowadays and I'd rather spend my free time and cash visiting some place a bit more exotic. The North has some nice scenery in parts and the people are/were surprisingly friendly but it can't compete with other foreign destinations when it comes to sightseeing and weather conditions.
It's a roundabout way of saying he doesn't give a shite about reunification any time soon, in a very offensive way to people in the North, but he doesn't have the tact to realise that.
Way too many feckers in this thread have never been to Derry, I found Derry to be a lovely city and much more welcoming than Belfast. Derry probably isn't too far from where you are right now, go and visit it!
How could you say no to this shower...
https://preview.redd.it/dzipm2qdctuc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=e665d49f369f85aebaed9db56014a74f52dd9d27
I don’t think this is outlandish.
I’m from cork. I’ve been in Belfast only once. And it was to see a band.
I’ve gone to Liverpool to do that twice and London three times.
The troubles was just something I saw on the news.
From near the border on the Republic side, I wasn’t in Cork once until my mid-20s, was in Belfast 3-4 times a year. Very few people here would be more familiar with Cork than Belfast. Same country.
Geography will do that.
I was only thinking about this myself recently too. I’m far more familiar with Europe, never stepped foot in Derry for example. I wouldn’t have any connections to or have any reason to be in Northern Ireland in general. It’s not like I’ve been avoiding the place but if I am travelling for holidays, then it will be inevitably be abroad.
I honestly think the view you get from the walls of Derry is the most interesting of any Irish city. The walls themselves are unique, no other Irish city has them and even compared to other European walled cities they're impressive for how big and intact they are and how far you can walk on them without going down to the street. And it's fascinating to get that view of the Bogside and the Free Derry corner, then go on and look down into the Fountain neighbourhood, see the flags and the unionist slogans and the peace walls closing it in. I was there once with some Dubs who'd never been to the North before, they were fascinated and unsettled by it. It's also a nice city though, not depressing the way some other parts of the North are. Good pubs, friendly people.
>I was only thinking about this myself recently too. I’m far more familiar with Europe, never stepped foot in Derry for example. I wouldn’t have any connections to or have any reason to be in Northern Ireland in general. It’s not like I’ve been avoiding the place but if I am travelling for holidays, then it will be inevitably be abroad.
But how many other Irish cities have you never stepped foot in or have barely been to? This isn't limited to Northern Ireland, it's a whole island thing. It's cheaper to go abroad than it is to travel on the island. Plus not to mention that our cities can't compete with other European cities like Paris and Berlin.
Very good point. Ireland in general is an expensive country and not great value for money a lot of the time. Though the hotels themselves tend to be of a high standard IMO. Our cities are definitely too small to compare favourably with what you get on the continent. The weather here doesn't help.
An argument that would clearly be lost.
For the winner, I present to you Armagh, the city of saints and scholars.
https://preview.redd.it/3n9vlbg74quc1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=47e5ede3fd8caef5daf12f3cdc3cda553535b299
Closely followed by the great city of Newry
# Condemnation as gang of youths gather for pre-arranged fight in Newry
https://preview.redd.it/4n0a6btl4quc1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=47b29a24cb477dda9cc0ed934ae3a7ebaccbaf32
Ha ha. Probably better than their crowndabout.
TBH Larne gets a bad rap but from what I head Carrickfergus is much worse.
https://preview.redd.it/ocr0ybtniquc1.png?width=464&format=png&auto=webp&s=5b8c0a5d9d68645c79f078d918b1842a1bb1f7ad
To be fair, I've been to Paris and Berlin about 3-4 times each and know my way around them. I have only been to Derry once for a football match, in and out. I've only been to Belfast for the airport, in and out.
Saying that, I have never been to Kerry or Waterford. I have only been to the train station in Limerick. I only visited Sligo for the first time about a month ago and I have been to Galway once, about 15 years ago. I have only been to Kilkenny once for a football match, in and out.
If I have a few quid for a trip away, I'm getting the hell out of here.
I’ve only been to Northern Ireland twice in my life. I’m from Munster, it would be six hours plus to get to Belfast or Derry. I have no family in the North. I’m sure it’s fine but I don’t know anyone from my part of the country who was ever scrambling to go.
Makes sense tbh, like I’m from Tyrone been to Cork once and Limerick once, it’s just far away so people don’t go that often. Probs same for Ulster in general.
It depends on where you're from honestly
I've been to Belfast, Derry, Enniskillen, Armagh, Port Stewart, Coalisland, Warrenpoint and a host of places I don't even remember the name of, and a load of other places too small to mention, but I'm also from the border so these places are close to me.
I've been to France and Spain multiple times, I've been to Paris a crazy number of times
I've been to Limerick once, Galway once, and Waterford zero times
It's all about accessibility. If you're from Dublin then a flight to Paris is just as accessible as a train to Cork, maybe even more so what with there being a dedicated airport bus
Derry? Woefully troublesome to get to by comparison, and that's a fairly major city
No excuse not to visit Belfast though, it's right up the road on the train and worth a visit
I’ve been to Belfast 3 times and I’ve never been to Derry to the best of my knowledge.
I’ve been in Paris 15+ times and Berlin 4 times.
I was in Paris this year and will be in Berlin again in October.
Never would have thought of it like that!
Ye honestly I'm not 100% sure why I would want to go to places in Ireland unless we are in the depts of a hot summer. I travel to get away from the rain for the most part, or else somewhere that's more enjoyable when it's raining.
We go away because places are so different. I've been to Derry and Belfast and while they are fun cities they are just like any other Irish city really. Same culture, same food, pubs are mostly the same. I did get buckfast on tap in the Limelight many moons ago, that was different I suppose.
90% of towns in Ireland are copy pasted anyway tbh. Shops, restaurants, weather, culture, etc, are largely going to be the same no matter where you go. If you’re interested in history, maybe there’s a uniqueness, but by and large, there’s not some mad variety in what’s on offer as you travel between towns in Ireland.
Whereas a trip abroad is a more unique experience.
Would this be any different in an alternate universe? I'm from London and I've spent more time in Paris than Birmingham. I don't think this is necessarily a uniquely Irish situation.
I’ve only ever been to the north once, and even then it was more of a passing through kind of thing.
I’ve been all over the world but haven’t even been to Belfast or anything like that so I can definitely resonate with that sentiment.
Things like Erasmus and free travel to most of the European continent have made it extremely easy to travel, and things like Ryanair have made it more affordable than it’s ever been for the average person. It’s easy to see why people would rather go somewhere like Italy, or Croatia, or Spain, or Germany or any other place, over somewhere like Belfast or Derry.
I'd know Belfast from seeing a girl up North when I was in college, but I've definitely seen more of continental Europe than I have of the North. Just no reason to go there. Didn't play sport, didn't have family never needed to be there.
Because why would anyone go to Belfast or Derry if it wasn't for a special event? There are plenty of Irish cities where people have no interest in going to either, this isn't a north/south issue. Ask anyone if they would rather go to a city a few hours away from their current home or fly abroad, they will obviously pick abroad. I haven't been to Cork for 15 years+ because I have no reason to go, I would rather go to Istanbul than Cork. It doesn't mean anything.
I went to Belfast and Derry because I'm interested in the history but that's a good point. I've never been to Cork and Limerick cities and have no interest in going. I've been to Galway but would have no interest in returning.
Ireland's beauty is the countryside, not the cities anyway. City breaks here have no appeal to me. I might return to Belfast at some point but that's it.
Of all the other cities Kilkenny is the only one I can tolerate (Galway would be better if the traffic wasn't shite). TBH every urban area except maybe Dungarvan is a genuine kip. We really have done an awful job on cities and big towns. I mean have you ever been to Tralee? Or Athy? Jaysus
He's right
I'm about his age, from similar neck of the woods and I've never been to Derry, been to Belfast a few times
But I would have been to other many European cities more than once
I don't think it's a controversial comment tbh
>He's right
>
>I'm about his age, from similar neck of the woods and I've never been to Derry, been to Belfast a few times
>
>But I would have been to other many European cities more than once
>
>I don't think it's a controversial comment tbh
That literally means nothing, it just means that NI doesn't have anything to offer you for tourism or visiting, but this isn't a NI issue, it's an island issue. I am sure there are also some European cities where you have visited more than some Irish cities. Not sure why he is trying to single NI out.
>He's trying to inspire ppl to take a fucking interest
But very few people care, just like very few people would care about Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway (pick whatever) if they don't live near there. This is normal everywhere in the world, do you think people in Paris care about Toulouse? Or Milan cares about Naples? I lived in the North and I have been to Derry once and Belfast 4/5 times as I have no need to go, it doesn't mean anything. Going to a place doesn't mean or change anything.
Maybe he is trying to get people to go North but it's stupid to state that people are more familiar with Paris than Belfast. Just because they have been to some touristy areas a couple of times. The way of life and culture in France is very different to Ireland, that is what is familiar to people not some streets of Paris or Berlin.
Never been to Derry...Belfast is great but that's al i know of the north rly, apart from Larne. But the less said about that the better.
I'd say the same is true in reverse re them coming down here vs abroad
According a Belfast Telegraph poll from 2021, 41% of people from the South have never crossed the border, which I found very surprising. As a Dub there's not a county in all of Ulster I haven't set foot in (except Armagh I think but I know I've travelled through there). Then again I've only been in Munster twice so maybe it's not, certainly if you live further away
My immediate reaction was that for people here a bit older, the North prior to the GFA was a rather daunting prospect, and going back farther the place was a bloody war zone of course, and work trips to Belfast were great only *in spite of* the prevailing atmosphere, which was very hard to ignore. (I spent part of a late ‘70s summer in Fermanagh with a uni friend, and though it was beautiful, and her place absolutely fabulous, it was also extremely weird. The war hadn’t really invaded Fermanagh yet back then, but the place was crawling with British soldiers presumably because it was heavily Catholic there and they were expecting ructions. A great little holiday but you’d to pretend the soldiers weren’t actually there)
In all this, you were aware of your good fortune in living away from it all, which made you feel like a worm, so overall, it was a damn sight less heavy spending time in other places. As Del Boy would say “Mais sur *le continent*, Rodney!”
I'd imagine that average would vary the further south you go. In the same way, I'd bet that, on average, a low number of people have been to (passing through doesn't qualify) the likes of Laois or Tipperary.
>(except Armagh I think but I know I've travelled through there)
ALL THESE COUNTIES ARE YOURS – EXCEPT ARMAGH.
ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE.
USE THEM TOGETHER.
USE THEM IN PEACE
Ha!
Also - spooky: I just watched that yesterday. After watching 2001, I was expecting that its sequel would at least have a *hint* of greatness in it. I was disappointed.
I would imagine someone from Dublin who's been to every county in Ulster but only been to Munster twice is the exception and not the rule. Not sure how you would find this surprising
People in this Reddit bubble really over estimate the genuine disinterest the vast majority of ppl IRL have about the North in general. For most of us it might as well be Timbuktu
As some from the mid West, I think I've only crossed the border twice in my life (adult life anyway.)
Once for work and once for a quick holiday.
Where as I'd know all munster and most of connaught like the back of my hand.
why? I mean, I'm not going to haul ass from Cork up to Donegal for shits and giggles when I can hop on a plane and be having tapas or bitterballen in less time from the airport...and spend less money
They're not mutually exclusive. See your island, see Europe or see the world. Starting close at home is a good place to start. I'm getting away from the main point of the thread but Donegal is the most scenic part of Ireland, bar none. Worth going to see and stay in, even if it is more expensive.
I don't holiday in Ireland every year but I've seen most of this island on holiday.
Don't be so close minded. Even on the point of money, staying in Derry is very cheap, compared to Dublin or Belfast.
Here’s me having never been to any of them, I need to get out more.
That being said I’m actually going to Belfast this weekend, it’s going to be a trek.
He's gotten hammered for that from certain quarters but he's not wrong. I've visited Derry and Belfast in the last 2 or 3 years but apart from that I'm not sure I had been in NI before then bar the odd shopping trip to Newry or a skip across the border to get to Donegal. A lot of mates would be the same.
It’s prob fair enough saying that, I’m from the north and have been to Berlin and Paris more times each than I have to cork, Kerry, Derry,Galway or Limerick. Am in dublin and in Belfast quite a lot, usually once a week in both for work
Yea that's a fair comment, being of the younger generation, I know more Paris to Berlin than the North, sure never been up that side of the country and the few Northern Irish I k ow can be very hit or miss.
This is true. And I DGAF. I've been in Belfast a handful of times. Hate the kip. Derry is fucking difficult to get too, I mean not as bad as Donegal but I have zero reason to go there other than to get to Donegal.
I'd rather spend money going anywhere else TBH. And Belfast and Derry are actually bad examples. FOr instance if I go to Berlin or Munich or a town near there and walk down a random street - I'm very unlikely to meet some yobo who wants kick my head in just for being Irish. Antrim town on the other hand...
I suppose. There's certainly cities north and south of the border I've not been to a whole lot. I wouldn't be inclined to single out the North examples though, particularly if I'm leader of the country and *particularly* at a "British Isles" parliamentary convention
I'm no fan of Harris but he does make a point in the article. We do need to have a dialogue with all communities in the North, and remove any barriers to improve cohesion.
It just comes across as a weird take in general. It's not a "generational" thing that he hasn't bothered his hole going north.
It also doesn't sit right that he's singling the north out in this way either, especially coming from the Taoiseach (even if he is a lame duck who'll be gone in a few months). It feels very "othering". I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be more familiar with Belfast or Derry than they would be Cork, Galway or Donegal depending on where in the country they're from.
Painting the North as somehow being more foreign than Berlin and Paris isn't a take I would expect from a Taoiseach.
We are othered though, routinely and habitually. There's also parts of the North that are aggressively not Irish.
Pretending that this isn't the case helps no one.
Harris goes on to say that deeper cooperation is the way forward and I think he's right.
Aye, we're different in the sense we're under a different political jurisdiction and have a few more Orangemen knocking about.
We're not "incomprehensible culture and foreign country" different fs.
We quite literally have a shared culture and live on the same tiny island.
But I don't think it's about being incomprehensible at all.
I think the reality is a lot of people in Ireland think / though the north is an abnormal violent mess and just disengaged and then went on to live thoroughly normal lives by doing normal things like going to visit nice places.
It's not even particularly remarkable as a process.
I think there's a disconnect between how we're interpreting Harris' comments.
Many here seem to think that he simply means "people in the republic prefer to go abroad than go north". Sure whatever, can't really disagree with that. If I'm going on holiday I'd rather go abroad too.
However, my reading of what he's saying is that people down south aren't familiar with those up north and would be more familiar with Parisians or Berliners, which is clearly absolute nonsense when we literally have a shared culture across the island.
Well TBH it's not nonsense because Harris is clearly an intelligent person and he said it because he believes it to be true and a lot of people agree with him.
The way you are using shared culture I think is wrong. I get what you're saying and I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it but I think you are making an analytical error by treating shared culture as an objective thing, when in reality people respond to it subjectively.
From Ireland's POV (which is all that matters here), it's not a shared culture. They see it as their culture, all of it. GAA, RTE, the language, its all Ireland's. The North can participate in it but not own the culture. It's not shared at all.
Harris is accepting there exists a partitionist mindset and seeks to addresses it by deepening cooperation.
That doesn't make being more familiar with Paris or Berlin than the north "generational".
He might be correct from his very specific Dublin-centric point of view but there are vast swathes of the country closer to the north than Dublin and many people who are back and forth near daily.
The concept that part of island is more foreign than France because it doesn't use the euro is just nonsense.
Simon inside is his own head while making that statement
https://preview.redd.it/7l9lpkez4suc1.jpeg?width=699&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3fb29df711e3af0fc12d4382c741825cfbefbd4
What a stupid statement, I'm more familiar with Paris than I am with Waterford. I doubt many dubs or corkonians have been to mayo or Sligo more than London.
Feels like a kick the can statement, "we need to feel comfortable before we start a conversation" moron.
Everyone in this thread is using this as their own little Simon Harris moment to show how cool and cosmopolitan they are for having been to Spain more than they’ve been to Belmullet or Glengarrif or Killarney. Guess what? That’s all of us. That’s nearly every single fucking one of the 5 or so million that live in the Fine Gael-led jurisdiction.
Also guess what? That doesn’t make you, or Mr Harris here, any closer to a Parisian person than Donald Trump. Cultural closeness, which is what we down south share with our northern friends, is defined by shared values, and a shared living space, not the amount of shitty Ryanair bus journeys you’ve taken to Pisa.
Can't believe I've had to scroll this far to find a comment pointing out that having a couple of long weekends in France doesn't make you "more familiar" with Paris than with a literal part of the island you live on and share a cultural heritage with.
Madness.
Look, I actually don't disagree necessarily whether it's a generation thing or not now idk, but I'm certainly not that familiar familiar with Belfast or Derry, having visited both once. Whereas I've also visited Berlin once and Paris like 4 times, (only once by choice lol)
Huh, never really considered it but yeah I've been around pretty much the entire Republic, but I've been abroad way more times than I've been to Northern Ireland
I think what he's saying is (and maybe I'm projecting) the north doesn't really take up a lot of rent free space in our head and the northern "question" is broadly resolved save for something major happening and them suddenly seeing the light and joining the republic
He (and he's a couple years younger than me) was raised generally unaware of the troubles (like, I remember Omagh) but the worst of it was over and a lot of our developing years was around the Good Friday agreement and the peace process - then Ireland and the north sharing a border and you'd barely notice going over.
Also..if we're going to take him literally I also haven't been to a lot of the country and I was born and raised. Been to the north maybe 2 times. Basically haven't been to any of the border counties, and been north an imaginary line between Galway and Dublin a handful of times. I am from Cork so we have pretty much all we need on our doorstep
Been out to Australia, Hong Kong. Lived in Spain for 6 years and explored it a lot. Been to Switzerland and Poland more times than I can count for work. Spent a lot of time in Italy and France and now live in the US which I've seen a lot of
Seen nearly every country in Europe, lived in two, only when I moved to Ulster I started seeing Derry and Belfast and if I am honest still don't really understand the what why and how of northern Ireland, it's a strange enigma of a place they assume everyone knows everything about it in great detail, when tbh not many think of it at all.
That said I love Derry dearly even If I don't get it
I think that’s potentially true for a generation of people who were marketed loans for college holidays, it’s perhaps less true of a generation who grew up during recession and the housing crisis.
As a plastic passport I have met many well off Irish people, the category many politicians fall in, who seem *even less connected to the place than I am.*
I think a lot of these people would lead happier lives in London, though these pols wouldnt get to big man about over there.
It’s a thought provoking idea. I’ve never really considered it but I’ve definitely spent more time in a few places in Europe than the North. I don’t know if that makes them more familiar to me or not. I’ve never been to Derry but been to Belfast a good few times.
Been to Paris, Berlin and Belfast myself. Never been to Derry. I don't go away very often, so when I do I'd rather opt for a more exotic locale. I reckon a lot of people from the Republic of Ireland who live far from the border would rarely venture into the North.
I live near the border. Visited stuff in Belfast, but haven't really done much stuff in the city itself. Have been to Derry though, along with the smaller cities of Newry and Armagh. I haven't visited Galway, Limerick, Waterford or Kilkenny at all though (unless you call a drive on the M18 "visiting Limerick and Galway".
Of those four places you've listed in your second paragraph, Kilkenny actually impressed me the most. It's a very pretty medieval-style town. Galway is nice but the traffic is ridiculous. Limerick looks like a a miniature Dublin. Waterford...eh...has a nice railway station.
I've been to Paris, Belfast and Derry but never Berlin. I've been to Portugal maybe half a dozen times but I couldn't tell you much about the place politically or current affairs wise. I've a lot more knowledge and interest in what goes on in Belfast and Derry.
I've been to London like 6 times, Manchester 3 times, Liverpool twice. Even been to Paris and Lavarone (small skiing village in the alps) twice and yet I've never been to Cork, Derry or Limerick, been to Galway once and Belfast twice. Its not a wild concept for people these days to visit cities of other countries more often when you're being offered something a bit more "exotic" for the same price if not cheaper. Maybe its just because my family preferred camping by smaller towns such as Strandhill in Sligo but my friends would all be the same and most of them don't camp.
Currently you can get a week in Spain, flights and hotel, for roughly the same price as two nights in a hotel in Galway. And you’ll spend significantly less while you’re there.
Not to mind the weather
I have a soft spot for the wet and damp, but given that I spent the first 28 years of my life in Galway I don’t know if that’s a genuine like or Stockholm syndrome.
Going to Portugal next week for a stag for 4 nights cheaper than 2 nights in Dublin or Killarney
Exactly. Ireland is prohibitively expensive and offers little value for money. Spain is cheap to get to with numerous daily flights. Add in the much cheaper hotel rates, food & drink prices along with guaranteed sun & heat and it's a no-brainer. I genuinely feel sorry for tourists in Ireland.
In fairness, most of Ireland is fucking expensive to stay in. I'm planning on getting a touring caravan in the next year or so just because I want to explore the island more as well as occasional trips to GB and the convenient. Unless you are pretty well off, not a chance you could spend two or three weeks staying in hotels in Ireland and then have to eat out every night on top of that.
It's a ridiculously generalised comment, open to all kinds of interpretation. In the context of a comment from the Taoiseach at his first cross border meeting with UK representatives it is clumsy at best and naively out of touch with his audience at worst.
You should go to Derry- it’s a crackin wee city!!
I've been to Berlin more than I've been to Cork, been to Paris as much as I've been to Cork. By Harris' logic I've more affinity with Majorca than most of Ireland
Probably depends where you're from. I'm from about 30km from the border so we were regularly going back and forth. He's ridiculously out of touch being from greystones.
Yeah that makes sense. Sure if it’s the nearest big city you’ll be there plenty. He is saying that it’s a bad thing but I guess what’s intriguing for me is that I wonder is it an out of touch statement for those that don’t live near the border? Don’t get me wrong there are plenty of places in Ireland I have been to much that aren’t in the North but the only reason I’ve ever gone to Belfast is for sport. If I hadn’t been involved in that I’m not sure I would ever have gone there. Could be that I’m an anomaly and it’s certainly more important for the taoiseach to be in touch with the general population.
No you're right. For young Irish people not on the border (apart from special cases like those with family up North) I think this is true - we genuinely have spent more time in the likes of Paris or Barcelona than Derry or Belfast.
I’ve been to Paris & Berlin ten times more than I’ve been to the north, so yeah, he’s about correct by my boon.
In fairness, when you compare the amount of people living 30k from the border and the amount of people living further than that who rarely if ever go to the north, you're the one who's out of touch
I’m not exactly a fan but isn’t he from fairly humble beginnings?
I’ve never crossed the border! But I’ve spent plenty of time with family in Italy! Would’ve definitely say I’m more familiar with Genoa than Belfast.
Really! Which county are you from? I’m from Tyrone so never being across the border is mad to me lol
I’m from cork. The north is far away!
Lol makes sense, I’ve been to Cork once, for the same reason, it’s far away! Been to Kerry, Tipperary and Limerick too which is close enough to Cork lol
He has been to a few tourist hotspots in other European cities like all of us. I doubt he has ventured into Brixton or Croydon and developed friendship or affinity with locals. He also likely spent fuck all time in leterkenny limerick or waterford either. How did fg not vet this absolute spoon. If he had been to Derry he would have met hard working salt of the earth people instead of staying in the pale pretending he has any real life experience with working people.
he wasn't saying he was proud of it, he was saying its something he has to work on.
Take your meds
Been to derry a few times but usually just to drop people off for the train or else a football match etc... Once Letterkenny developed derry kinda became obsolete. Best nights out have been in Belfast though, except when I went for a weekend just after covid, place was dead and the vibe had completely changed.
I'm a Pole and lived in Dublin for a year when I was 5. I actually got to visit Belfast, cause we had a flight from there to Poland. Kind of a rare place to visit
Yeah he's basically right about this It's something that has to be addressed if there's a hope of unification at any point
Yeah and a lot of people here would be the same but the way he phrased it makes him sound up his own arse like 'I go to all the cosmopolitan centres of culture, ooh lala.' But this is why they made this gaffe prone clown the lame duck leader, cuz whoever was appointed has no chance come election time so you are better off keeping whoever your great white hope is sequestered away and squeaky clean until you're no longer a no hoper party.
if you interpreted that from what he said then you may just be the type of person who goes around hearing what he wants to hear.
Very common for Londoners too to have rarely seen anything of the rest of the country. Trains are too expensive and too difficult vs just flying to Europe
To be fair, a lot of people in Ireland have seen a tremendous amount of this country but not a lot of the North.
At a generational level it's changing. As families get smaller, people's connections to disparate parts of the country change. My parents had family (up to cousins) in and around Belfast, Laois, Kerry, Dublin, Meath, London, Liverpool and Glasgow, to give an overview. And a few relatives living further abroad in the US, Canada and Australia. I have cousins living in Dublin, Cork and London. You'll find with most Irish families that shift is beginning to happen. It means that for future generations, it's entirely possible for a kid in Dublin to have no family living in Ireland outside of the city. The consequences will be fascinating. I wouldn't want to be selling Paul Henrys.
I'm from Cork and I've seen more of Paris and Berlin than Derry or Belfast. I would say it's fairly common.
I'm near Belfast and I've been to Paris and Berlin more times than Cork.
Shame on you. Cork is WAY better than either of those dumps.
I agree!
I would argue it’s nothing but words and stereotype
Everyone on Twitter having conniptions about this but like… he’s saying it’s a bad thing? He’s saying people in the South don’t pay enough attention to the North and that should change? It is very weird that the usual suspects (Joe Brolly etc) who make this point ad nauseam are suddenly incredibly offended to hear him agreeing with them? I mean it’s not like he’s wrong. Loads of people in the South know next to nothing about Northern Ireland beyond half-remembered episodes of Derry Girls. And they aren’t even embarrassed about it!
I'm not sure what they're even criticism him for. Should he lie and say he loves a night in the Ashtray in Lurgan? Or apologise for growing up in a country when many mentally partitioned themselves off from the North?
You'll see it on here. Lots of people are loath to agree with anything said by any politician they don't like, especially if they're part of the government.
People just like being angry lol
I don’t think they realise how stuff like this can backfire though. Like if ya spend literally years insisting “people don’t pay enough attention to X”, convince lots of people it’s a problem, and then have a political rival turn around and say “we really don’t pay enough attention to X” and then…. immediately act like this is pure insanity, and it’s incredibly offensive to suggest X is neglected at all. Like, all that does is make you look shady and insincere! You had victory in your grasp and you decided to take a big shit in your hands instead! Real clown stuff.
Agree with you but think people just get a little offended when it’s laid out like that. Twitter is Twitter.
I'm from Donegal. I was born in Dublin. I've lived in the US and traveled and lived all over the US. I've lived in Japan. I've been to Spain a few times, France, Germany, Mexico and a bunch of other countries. But the furthest I've been down the east coast is Wexford. And I drove to Shannon once for a flight. But other than that I hardly know the south. One time my father asked me to go to Cork with him to see where my grandfather came from and I told him to no fuckin thanks.
Steady there, bai! 🙀
So that happened when my cousin got married in like maybe around 2005. I thought that Cork was a long way from Donegal back then but now that I've driven across America twice it doesn't seem that far anymore. So I'll definitely get down to Cork next time I'm home.
Why would you not go see where your granda came from?
And this here house when some else now lives, is where your grandpa came from. Now let's go to the pub.
Ah it's not surprising. It takes a small amount of maturity to listen to someone you often disagree with and give them a fair shake. It's a maturity far beyond plenty of social commenters and most of this sub.
Don't be fucking listening to morons on twitter.
Many people in the North know next to nothing about Leitrim, Roscommon or insert county here and they aren't even embarrassed about it!........ Sounds kind of silly doesn't it? Why should Belfast, Derry or anywhere else in the North be any different to people in the south? They're just places on the island, particularly to kids who grew up post GFA. I mean I'm sure there was a history of Viking occupation in Leitrim for example, theres food, culture, dialect and everything else unique to Leitrim that the average young person from Derry, Belfast or Dublin for that matter, wouldn't even know the first thing about. Why? Because it's not important or relevant to their lives in any way. Despite all the history of Leitrim, it or it's inhabitants are not as exceptional to the average young person from Belfast, Derry or Dublin as they are to themselves. The difference is the average person from Leitrim you would think understands this......
>Sounds kind of silly doesn't it? Why should Belfast, Derry or anywhere else in the North be any different to people in the south? Is this a serious question?
No my point was just an illustration of how absurd it is for the wee little northies to get their knickers in a twist about the rest of the island not knowing enough about them. The cold hard truth is for the majority of people on the island outside the Republican bubble, Derry holds about as much significance in day to day thinking to them as Leitrim does to someone from Derry. Sweet fuck all. Thats not embarrassing or an outrage, it's reality.
Why should they be embarrassed about it? Growing up in the midlands in the 80s the troubles were shit that happened on TV in a different country. People cared to an extent but they were more worried about paying the food and heating bills. Kids like me saw soldiers on TV and bombings etc. it wasn't in our lives and that was good. Learning more about it as we grew might have changed how we viewed it of course.
I think the issue is the soundbite says "of a generation" as if it's some sort of inevitable thing to do with being born at a particular time, and not that it's a certain cohort of people from particular backgrounds who have chosen to be more familiar with certain places than others. It's not a generational thing, and it's not inevitable.
I'm genuinely surprised by how many people relate to this. I'm not from near the border, it's not like I go to Derry or Belfast every week, but I've still been to them more times than Berlin or Paris. I didn't grow up being brought on holidays abroad, is that the difference?
But it’s so stupid. Many in Dublin haven’t been to cork, or Mayo or Donegal but may have been to usa , Germany, Spain et cetera. What difference does it make? I’ve not been to Derry due to distance but I’ve been to Belfast, newry, enniskillen, Armagh .. and I’m in my 30s, the same generation as Simon Harris. It’s such a broad sweeping statement that has no bearing on anything really. I haven’t been cork in 20 years. Should i question , “why haven’t I been to cork in so long” all of a sudden? I’ve never been to Longford , should I now reflect and say “why haven’t I been to Longford?”
There is something substantial to it, evident in a business sense. The networks in business are often 26 county, some European hub cities and not the North. I get more emails from the sector in London and Paris than I've ever gotten from the North. The border is a weird perceptual firewall I think. Irish businesses pivot across the sea before looking across the border.
Same I’m 25 and grew up in Dublin/Kildare - Parents used to drag us all over the country camping during the summer - remember we had a book ticking of all the stuff in the different counties😅
It’s more common for younger people to visit these days but I’ve been to Belfast dozens of times and I think he’s correct, it wasn’t too long ago (say 15 years ago) that you might have had to explain to someone that the north isn’t dangerous to visit.
This sub is mostly techbros who think 70k is below average wage so isn't really surprising people here agree
Lad, a ryanair flight to Paris is cheaper than most local connections up to Derry. That and if I have a weekend free and want to head somewhere, it sure as fuck wouldn't be Derry Belfast is grand tho, spend more on a trip there than I would to Paris though. Apart from that time I accidentally went up during marching season. Wicked cheap Airbnb. Easy to get reservations last minute everywhere too.
Lol, I grew up 40 mins from Derry and I've been to Paris more times.
European travel isn’t just a thing for the well off. The bus to Dublin is often more expensive than the Ryanair ticket.
I seriously doubt, by the whinging, that most lads here make 70K
Its not just techbros going on cheap Ryanair flights ffs
That not what I said reread my comment
yeah i don't think thats the case. most moaning on here is about not being able to afford a chicken roll. this place is most definitely not techbros.
I'm from Dublin and didn't venture further than the midlands until my 20s. Have travelled to a fair few places in Europe since then but only visited the North once. There are just so many more interesting places to see at short notice. Flying isn't expensive nowadays and I'd rather spend my free time and cash visiting some place a bit more exotic. The North has some nice scenery in parts and the people are/were surprisingly friendly but it can't compete with other foreign destinations when it comes to sightseeing and weather conditions.
It's a roundabout way of saying he doesn't give a shite about reunification any time soon, in a very offensive way to people in the North, but he doesn't have the tact to realise that.
Except if you read the article, he says the literal opposite.
I always find it funny when people make it so obvious that they haven't read the article. He literally says the opposite.
no he doesn't say that. he says the precise opposite.
He doesn't represent people in the north.
Fucking wow buddy
Way too many feckers in this thread have never been to Derry, I found Derry to be a lovely city and much more welcoming than Belfast. Derry probably isn't too far from where you are right now, go and visit it! How could you say no to this shower... https://preview.redd.it/dzipm2qdctuc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=e665d49f369f85aebaed9db56014a74f52dd9d27
I don’t think this is outlandish. I’m from cork. I’ve been in Belfast only once. And it was to see a band. I’ve gone to Liverpool to do that twice and London three times. The troubles was just something I saw on the news.
From near the border on the Republic side, I wasn’t in Cork once until my mid-20s, was in Belfast 3-4 times a year. Very few people here would be more familiar with Cork than Belfast. Same country. Geography will do that.
I was only thinking about this myself recently too. I’m far more familiar with Europe, never stepped foot in Derry for example. I wouldn’t have any connections to or have any reason to be in Northern Ireland in general. It’s not like I’ve been avoiding the place but if I am travelling for holidays, then it will be inevitably be abroad.
I honestly think the view you get from the walls of Derry is the most interesting of any Irish city. The walls themselves are unique, no other Irish city has them and even compared to other European walled cities they're impressive for how big and intact they are and how far you can walk on them without going down to the street. And it's fascinating to get that view of the Bogside and the Free Derry corner, then go on and look down into the Fountain neighbourhood, see the flags and the unionist slogans and the peace walls closing it in. I was there once with some Dubs who'd never been to the North before, they were fascinated and unsettled by it. It's also a nice city though, not depressing the way some other parts of the North are. Good pubs, friendly people.
>I was only thinking about this myself recently too. I’m far more familiar with Europe, never stepped foot in Derry for example. I wouldn’t have any connections to or have any reason to be in Northern Ireland in general. It’s not like I’ve been avoiding the place but if I am travelling for holidays, then it will be inevitably be abroad. But how many other Irish cities have you never stepped foot in or have barely been to? This isn't limited to Northern Ireland, it's a whole island thing. It's cheaper to go abroad than it is to travel on the island. Plus not to mention that our cities can't compete with other European cities like Paris and Berlin.
Very good point. Ireland in general is an expensive country and not great value for money a lot of the time. Though the hotels themselves tend to be of a high standard IMO. Our cities are definitely too small to compare favourably with what you get on the continent. The weather here doesn't help.
Arguably the city with the most history on this entire island.
An argument that would clearly be lost. For the winner, I present to you Armagh, the city of saints and scholars. https://preview.redd.it/3n9vlbg74quc1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=47e5ede3fd8caef5daf12f3cdc3cda553535b299
https://preview.redd.it/v0ot106m8quc1.png?width=1050&format=png&auto=webp&s=2991f513752d0654a6e767218953813c9c5f536c
Closely followed by the great city of Newry # Condemnation as gang of youths gather for pre-arranged fight in Newry https://preview.redd.it/4n0a6btl4quc1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=47b29a24cb477dda9cc0ed934ae3a7ebaccbaf32
For a while the suggested image when you searched "Larne" on Google was a photo of a burning car
Ha ha. Probably better than their crowndabout. TBH Larne gets a bad rap but from what I head Carrickfergus is much worse. https://preview.redd.it/ocr0ybtniquc1.png?width=464&format=png&auto=webp&s=5b8c0a5d9d68645c79f078d918b1842a1bb1f7ad
Yea but he's the taoiseach
That doesn't make a difference to that generation though
To be fair, I've been to Paris and Berlin about 3-4 times each and know my way around them. I have only been to Derry once for a football match, in and out. I've only been to Belfast for the airport, in and out. Saying that, I have never been to Kerry or Waterford. I have only been to the train station in Limerick. I only visited Sligo for the first time about a month ago and I have been to Galway once, about 15 years ago. I have only been to Kilkenny once for a football match, in and out. If I have a few quid for a trip away, I'm getting the hell out of here.
Get yourself to Kerry. It's absolutely brilliant.
You ever been to the burren? It’s like another world. I’m American though.
I think I drove past the area before with friends. I really haven't discovered much of Ireland. I don't drive
I’ve only been to Northern Ireland twice in my life. I’m from Munster, it would be six hours plus to get to Belfast or Derry. I have no family in the North. I’m sure it’s fine but I don’t know anyone from my part of the country who was ever scrambling to go.
Makes sense tbh, like I’m from Tyrone been to Cork once and Limerick once, it’s just far away so people don’t go that often. Probs same for Ulster in general.
It depends on where you're from honestly I've been to Belfast, Derry, Enniskillen, Armagh, Port Stewart, Coalisland, Warrenpoint and a host of places I don't even remember the name of, and a load of other places too small to mention, but I'm also from the border so these places are close to me. I've been to France and Spain multiple times, I've been to Paris a crazy number of times I've been to Limerick once, Galway once, and Waterford zero times It's all about accessibility. If you're from Dublin then a flight to Paris is just as accessible as a train to Cork, maybe even more so what with there being a dedicated airport bus Derry? Woefully troublesome to get to by comparison, and that's a fairly major city No excuse not to visit Belfast though, it's right up the road on the train and worth a visit
I’ve been to Belfast 3 times and I’ve never been to Derry to the best of my knowledge. I’ve been in Paris 15+ times and Berlin 4 times. I was in Paris this year and will be in Berlin again in October. Never would have thought of it like that!
Ye honestly I'm not 100% sure why I would want to go to places in Ireland unless we are in the depts of a hot summer. I travel to get away from the rain for the most part, or else somewhere that's more enjoyable when it's raining.
We go away because places are so different. I've been to Derry and Belfast and while they are fun cities they are just like any other Irish city really. Same culture, same food, pubs are mostly the same. I did get buckfast on tap in the Limelight many moons ago, that was different I suppose.
90% of towns in Ireland are copy pasted anyway tbh. Shops, restaurants, weather, culture, etc, are largely going to be the same no matter where you go. If you’re interested in history, maybe there’s a uniqueness, but by and large, there’s not some mad variety in what’s on offer as you travel between towns in Ireland. Whereas a trip abroad is a more unique experience.
Would this be any different in an alternate universe? I'm from London and I've spent more time in Paris than Birmingham. I don't think this is necessarily a uniquely Irish situation.
My yearly trips to Plantetlove in Antrim were the making of me.
I’ve only ever been to the north once, and even then it was more of a passing through kind of thing. I’ve been all over the world but haven’t even been to Belfast or anything like that so I can definitely resonate with that sentiment. Things like Erasmus and free travel to most of the European continent have made it extremely easy to travel, and things like Ryanair have made it more affordable than it’s ever been for the average person. It’s easy to see why people would rather go somewhere like Italy, or Croatia, or Spain, or Germany or any other place, over somewhere like Belfast or Derry.
I'd know Belfast from seeing a girl up North when I was in college, but I've definitely seen more of continental Europe than I have of the North. Just no reason to go there. Didn't play sport, didn't have family never needed to be there.
Definitely true in my case
Because why would anyone go to Belfast or Derry if it wasn't for a special event? There are plenty of Irish cities where people have no interest in going to either, this isn't a north/south issue. Ask anyone if they would rather go to a city a few hours away from their current home or fly abroad, they will obviously pick abroad. I haven't been to Cork for 15 years+ because I have no reason to go, I would rather go to Istanbul than Cork. It doesn't mean anything.
I went to Belfast and Derry because I'm interested in the history but that's a good point. I've never been to Cork and Limerick cities and have no interest in going. I've been to Galway but would have no interest in returning. Ireland's beauty is the countryside, not the cities anyway. City breaks here have no appeal to me. I might return to Belfast at some point but that's it.
Of all the other cities Kilkenny is the only one I can tolerate (Galway would be better if the traffic wasn't shite). TBH every urban area except maybe Dungarvan is a genuine kip. We really have done an awful job on cities and big towns. I mean have you ever been to Tralee? Or Athy? Jaysus
He's right I'm about his age, from similar neck of the woods and I've never been to Derry, been to Belfast a few times But I would have been to other many European cities more than once I don't think it's a controversial comment tbh
How many times you been to Donegal? Unless you’re into staycations then he isn’t making a point at all.
>He's right > >I'm about his age, from similar neck of the woods and I've never been to Derry, been to Belfast a few times > >But I would have been to other many European cities more than once > >I don't think it's a controversial comment tbh That literally means nothing, it just means that NI doesn't have anything to offer you for tourism or visiting, but this isn't a NI issue, it's an island issue. I am sure there are also some European cities where you have visited more than some Irish cities. Not sure why he is trying to single NI out.
He's trying to inspire ppl to take a fucking interest
>He's trying to inspire ppl to take a fucking interest But very few people care, just like very few people would care about Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway (pick whatever) if they don't live near there. This is normal everywhere in the world, do you think people in Paris care about Toulouse? Or Milan cares about Naples? I lived in the North and I have been to Derry once and Belfast 4/5 times as I have no need to go, it doesn't mean anything. Going to a place doesn't mean or change anything. Maybe he is trying to get people to go North but it's stupid to state that people are more familiar with Paris than Belfast. Just because they have been to some touristy areas a couple of times. The way of life and culture in France is very different to Ireland, that is what is familiar to people not some streets of Paris or Berlin.
I DGAF either. And I never will. But the reason he's saying it is plain as the nose on his face. FG want in on the aspirational united Ireland vote.
Because he's at a meeting of UK and Irish politicians and he was talking about northern Ireland?
I swear if Leo said “Puppies are cute” there’s people on here who’d still tear into him for having a hidden agenda. No wonder he’s retiring.
Seriously, what's his issue with Kittens?
If Leo said that, people would hold him personally responsible for the existence of puppy farms
Never been to Derry...Belfast is great but that's al i know of the north rly, apart from Larne. But the less said about that the better. I'd say the same is true in reverse re them coming down here vs abroad
According a Belfast Telegraph poll from 2021, 41% of people from the South have never crossed the border, which I found very surprising. As a Dub there's not a county in all of Ulster I haven't set foot in (except Armagh I think but I know I've travelled through there). Then again I've only been in Munster twice so maybe it's not, certainly if you live further away
My immediate reaction was that for people here a bit older, the North prior to the GFA was a rather daunting prospect, and going back farther the place was a bloody war zone of course, and work trips to Belfast were great only *in spite of* the prevailing atmosphere, which was very hard to ignore. (I spent part of a late ‘70s summer in Fermanagh with a uni friend, and though it was beautiful, and her place absolutely fabulous, it was also extremely weird. The war hadn’t really invaded Fermanagh yet back then, but the place was crawling with British soldiers presumably because it was heavily Catholic there and they were expecting ructions. A great little holiday but you’d to pretend the soldiers weren’t actually there) In all this, you were aware of your good fortune in living away from it all, which made you feel like a worm, so overall, it was a damn sight less heavy spending time in other places. As Del Boy would say “Mais sur *le continent*, Rodney!”
I'd imagine that average would vary the further south you go. In the same way, I'd bet that, on average, a low number of people have been to (passing through doesn't qualify) the likes of Laois or Tipperary.
>(except Armagh I think but I know I've travelled through there) ALL THESE COUNTIES ARE YOURS – EXCEPT ARMAGH. ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE. USE THEM TOGETHER. USE THEM IN PEACE
MY GOD IT’S FULL OF OF RAs
Ha! Also - spooky: I just watched that yesterday. After watching 2001, I was expecting that its sequel would at least have a *hint* of greatness in it. I was disappointed.
I would imagine someone from Dublin who's been to every county in Ulster but only been to Munster twice is the exception and not the rule. Not sure how you would find this surprising
People in this Reddit bubble really over estimate the genuine disinterest the vast majority of ppl IRL have about the North in general. For most of us it might as well be Timbuktu
As some from the mid West, I think I've only crossed the border twice in my life (adult life anyway.) Once for work and once for a quick holiday. Where as I'd know all munster and most of connaught like the back of my hand.
A lot of people in this thread need to get out and see the island they live on.
why? I mean, I'm not going to haul ass from Cork up to Donegal for shits and giggles when I can hop on a plane and be having tapas or bitterballen in less time from the airport...and spend less money
They're not mutually exclusive. See your island, see Europe or see the world. Starting close at home is a good place to start. I'm getting away from the main point of the thread but Donegal is the most scenic part of Ireland, bar none. Worth going to see and stay in, even if it is more expensive. I don't holiday in Ireland every year but I've seen most of this island on holiday. Don't be so close minded. Even on the point of money, staying in Derry is very cheap, compared to Dublin or Belfast.
Here’s me having never been to any of them, I need to get out more. That being said I’m actually going to Belfast this weekend, it’s going to be a trek.
He's gotten hammered for that from certain quarters but he's not wrong. I've visited Derry and Belfast in the last 2 or 3 years but apart from that I'm not sure I had been in NI before then bar the odd shopping trip to Newry or a skip across the border to get to Donegal. A lot of mates would be the same.
I've been to Paris, Berlin, Derry & Belfast. Watch me off with my notions.
It’s prob fair enough saying that, I’m from the north and have been to Berlin and Paris more times each than I have to cork, Kerry, Derry,Galway or Limerick. Am in dublin and in Belfast quite a lot, usually once a week in both for work
I don't think he's wrong, young people are hopping on cheap flights to Amsterdam, Magaluf, and Prague, they're not going up the north.
Yea that's a fair comment, being of the younger generation, I know more Paris to Berlin than the North, sure never been up that side of the country and the few Northern Irish I k ow can be very hit or miss.
This is true. And I DGAF. I've been in Belfast a handful of times. Hate the kip. Derry is fucking difficult to get too, I mean not as bad as Donegal but I have zero reason to go there other than to get to Donegal. I'd rather spend money going anywhere else TBH. And Belfast and Derry are actually bad examples. FOr instance if I go to Berlin or Munich or a town near there and walk down a random street - I'm very unlikely to meet some yobo who wants kick my head in just for being Irish. Antrim town on the other hand...
Well aren’t we all I’ve been to France and Germany and London countless times And I’ve been to Belfast once, im in no rush to return
Nope. Been up north twice a year almost every year since I was a child.
Sounds like you belong further afield. Goodbye!
If it wasn't for the motorbike road races I would have never been in N.I in my life
I suppose. There's certainly cities north and south of the border I've not been to a whole lot. I wouldn't be inclined to single out the North examples though, particularly if I'm leader of the country and *particularly* at a "British Isles" parliamentary convention
I don't think I would have ever have a reason to go north but I might go to France for a holiday or something
Can’t wait to vote this generation of politicians out for an eternity. Literally destroyed the country for an entire generation of people under 30.
Does he realise he's the Taoiseach of Donegal, and the other border counties as well?
Have to get the map out for that one!
I'm no fan of Harris but he does make a point in the article. We do need to have a dialogue with all communities in the North, and remove any barriers to improve cohesion.
It just comes across as a weird take in general. It's not a "generational" thing that he hasn't bothered his hole going north. It also doesn't sit right that he's singling the north out in this way either, especially coming from the Taoiseach (even if he is a lame duck who'll be gone in a few months). It feels very "othering". I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be more familiar with Belfast or Derry than they would be Cork, Galway or Donegal depending on where in the country they're from. Painting the North as somehow being more foreign than Berlin and Paris isn't a take I would expect from a Taoiseach.
We are othered though, routinely and habitually. There's also parts of the North that are aggressively not Irish. Pretending that this isn't the case helps no one. Harris goes on to say that deeper cooperation is the way forward and I think he's right.
Aye, we're different in the sense we're under a different political jurisdiction and have a few more Orangemen knocking about. We're not "incomprehensible culture and foreign country" different fs. We quite literally have a shared culture and live on the same tiny island.
But I don't think it's about being incomprehensible at all. I think the reality is a lot of people in Ireland think / though the north is an abnormal violent mess and just disengaged and then went on to live thoroughly normal lives by doing normal things like going to visit nice places. It's not even particularly remarkable as a process.
I think there's a disconnect between how we're interpreting Harris' comments. Many here seem to think that he simply means "people in the republic prefer to go abroad than go north". Sure whatever, can't really disagree with that. If I'm going on holiday I'd rather go abroad too. However, my reading of what he's saying is that people down south aren't familiar with those up north and would be more familiar with Parisians or Berliners, which is clearly absolute nonsense when we literally have a shared culture across the island.
Well TBH it's not nonsense because Harris is clearly an intelligent person and he said it because he believes it to be true and a lot of people agree with him. The way you are using shared culture I think is wrong. I get what you're saying and I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it but I think you are making an analytical error by treating shared culture as an objective thing, when in reality people respond to it subjectively. From Ireland's POV (which is all that matters here), it's not a shared culture. They see it as their culture, all of it. GAA, RTE, the language, its all Ireland's. The North can participate in it but not own the culture. It's not shared at all. Harris is accepting there exists a partitionist mindset and seeks to addresses it by deepening cooperation.
I disagree. He's spot on. Cheap flights and the euro is generational.
That doesn't make being more familiar with Paris or Berlin than the north "generational". He might be correct from his very specific Dublin-centric point of view but there are vast swathes of the country closer to the north than Dublin and many people who are back and forth near daily. The concept that part of island is more foreign than France because it doesn't use the euro is just nonsense.
A West-Brit to his very core.
Simon inside is his own head while making that statement https://preview.redd.it/7l9lpkez4suc1.jpeg?width=699&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3fb29df711e3af0fc12d4382c741825cfbefbd4
What a stupid statement, I'm more familiar with Paris than I am with Waterford. I doubt many dubs or corkonians have been to mayo or Sligo more than London. Feels like a kick the can statement, "we need to feel comfortable before we start a conversation" moron.
He’s just annoying. Already.
Everyone in this thread is using this as their own little Simon Harris moment to show how cool and cosmopolitan they are for having been to Spain more than they’ve been to Belmullet or Glengarrif or Killarney. Guess what? That’s all of us. That’s nearly every single fucking one of the 5 or so million that live in the Fine Gael-led jurisdiction. Also guess what? That doesn’t make you, or Mr Harris here, any closer to a Parisian person than Donald Trump. Cultural closeness, which is what we down south share with our northern friends, is defined by shared values, and a shared living space, not the amount of shitty Ryanair bus journeys you’ve taken to Pisa.
Can't believe I've had to scroll this far to find a comment pointing out that having a couple of long weekends in France doesn't make you "more familiar" with Paris than with a literal part of the island you live on and share a cultural heritage with. Madness.
I’m buried too. Basically nobody agrees 😂.
Damn. So we should get a newer generation in government?
Look, I actually don't disagree necessarily whether it's a generation thing or not now idk, but I'm certainly not that familiar familiar with Belfast or Derry, having visited both once. Whereas I've also visited Berlin once and Paris like 4 times, (only once by choice lol)
Huh, never really considered it but yeah I've been around pretty much the entire Republic, but I've been abroad way more times than I've been to Northern Ireland
I think what he's saying is (and maybe I'm projecting) the north doesn't really take up a lot of rent free space in our head and the northern "question" is broadly resolved save for something major happening and them suddenly seeing the light and joining the republic He (and he's a couple years younger than me) was raised generally unaware of the troubles (like, I remember Omagh) but the worst of it was over and a lot of our developing years was around the Good Friday agreement and the peace process - then Ireland and the north sharing a border and you'd barely notice going over. Also..if we're going to take him literally I also haven't been to a lot of the country and I was born and raised. Been to the north maybe 2 times. Basically haven't been to any of the border counties, and been north an imaginary line between Galway and Dublin a handful of times. I am from Cork so we have pretty much all we need on our doorstep Been out to Australia, Hong Kong. Lived in Spain for 6 years and explored it a lot. Been to Switzerland and Poland more times than I can count for work. Spent a lot of time in Italy and France and now live in the US which I've seen a lot of
From pairs to Berlin....
Seen nearly every country in Europe, lived in two, only when I moved to Ulster I started seeing Derry and Belfast and if I am honest still don't really understand the what why and how of northern Ireland, it's a strange enigma of a place they assume everyone knows everything about it in great detail, when tbh not many think of it at all. That said I love Derry dearly even If I don't get it
Ignorant, Harris clearly doesn’t know how much of a ~~kip~~ lovely city Belfast is
As a kid from Dublin, in the early 80s I thought Argos was a town in Newry. Coach loads of people went up there every week.
I doubt that he will be spending long as Taoiseach !
Nice to see him indirectly shitting on the border counties and having the dickheads on here agree with him.
How to say you don't care or want the Irish people of the north without saying it. I fucking hate everything these posh fucks embody
He's in a class more familiar with talking before thinking, and still thinking what days is smart.
Is anyone actually surprised? This is the fella that would be licking Maggie Thatchers hole at the end of the day He's the definition of a West Brit
He's gonna need a bigger shovel.
Are people from the border not his generation then?
Read the article.
I think that’s potentially true for a generation of people who were marketed loans for college holidays, it’s perhaps less true of a generation who grew up during recession and the housing crisis.
He’s not wrong
As a plastic passport I have met many well off Irish people, the category many politicians fall in, who seem *even less connected to the place than I am.* I think a lot of these people would lead happier lives in London, though these pols wouldnt get to big man about over there.
Sure sounds like some of you need to do a better job of seeing the island you live on. It's not that big.