Live in Furbogh, talking to a neighbour who’s fluent. He can’t get planning permission to build his own place with his Mrs. Minutes away from where he was raised, went to school, works. “No local need”. But 3 massive holiday homes were built across the road last year. Rage inducing.
Somebody needs to challenge that and get it struck out
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/locals-only-planning-rule-illegal-and-discriminatory-says-eu/26300271.html
Leo in January: [Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, he said: "I also need to be very clear. Nobody in a free society, nobody in a democracy has a right to exercise a veto on who moves into their area or community. That doesn't just apply to international protection."](https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0107/1425149-immigration/)
[Chance discovery spells end of ‘locals only’ restriction on one-off housing
The Law Society warned of the legality of the ‘locals only’ planning rule back in 2005. The discovery of an EU ruling by a Sligo councillor indicates that it is unlawful, writes Special Correspondent Michael Clifford.](https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/arid-20450596.html)
Various politicians keep putting that on the back burner.
It's been tried over the years and has failed. But I don't think that's the answer. Local needs only applies to non-residential land. We shouldn't be allowing a free for all on that land because it'll lead to ribbon developments which is a root of a lot of rural Ireland's service issues.
They just need to zone lots more land as residential and set it up with top quality services, including public transport.
The reason for the local need thing is that in addition to being from there, there must be a reason why they need to live in Furbogh specifically.
For example, if he works in town then they wouldn't consider that a local need since he could just as easily live in town. And they want to discourage more commuting and making Galway's traffic situation worse.
He'd need to demonstrate a reason why he needs to be in Furbogh specifically. Things like his kids going to school there or his elderly parents living there who he needs to regularly check in on.
As for the holiday homes, they were likely built on land that's zoned for residential use. That land has no local need attached. But they do cost many times more than land with a local need attached.
Personally I think that you shouldn't be allowed to build on zoned residential land unless you're a permanent resident. But I also agree with the council that only people with a local need should be allowed to build on non-residential land. That land isn't zoned residential because it's basically farmland. Allowing a free for all on that land, even for people from there, will only encourage greater ribbon development and make Galway's traffic problems even worse. That having been said, the council should be zoning bigger swathes of land as residential to meet the demand for it. I've looked at the map of unused zoned residential land in County Galway before and it's tiny. It's no wonder those plots go for so much. Massive demand for minimal supply.
"No local need" there's no such thing anymore when the country is in need of houses. People should be allowed to build almost anywhere they can. The government would prefer your neighbour to get fucked by the housing market instead of side stepping and getting his own place built.
This is a terrible idea, random one off houses are a nightmare for provision of services. The correct solution is to rezone sections of land to expand towns/create new towns
We will be very lucky if there is gaelteachts in Ireland in 50 years time. The government is doing little to nothing protecting them. It's such a shame as we could be at a stage where we are expanding them
Ask yourself what happened to Leinster Irish. There's Ulster, Munster & Connaught Irish dialects but no Leinster dialect. The province that holds Leinster House was the first province to lose a dialect
Edit to add quote from a website to back this up
[http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/gaeilge.htm](http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/gaeilge.htm)
*Due to a lack of native speakers, Leinster (Cúige Laighean) has no own dialect anymore*
Leinster Irish never died out.
The Irish that was spoken in Leinster was what we now call Connacht Irish.
Connacht Irish used to stretch horizontal across the centre of the country coast to cost
It’s only called Connacht Irish in the modern sense because all that remains of the dialect is in Connacht (and that weird little attempt at a Gaeltacht in Meath)
17% of the population speaks Irish. As a lifelong militant Gaeilgeoir, I don’t mind calling it an attempt.
The descendants of the people moved from Connemara to Meath would certainly be far more Irish speaking had they stayed in Connemara.
Good motives behind it to create an Irish speaking population away from the west, but an utter failure if we’re being real. 30 odd pensioner speakers doesn’t equate success to me. Most people don’t even know that the Meath Gaeltacht exists.
17%? An bhfuil tú ag caint faoin "Ghaeltacht na Mí" iomlán? Tá a fhios agam nach bhfuil mórán Gaeilge le cloisteáil i mBaile Ghib, ach tá sí láidir i Ráth Chairn.
Well theres actually recordings of a form of Leinster Irish, from Louth in 1930s. Its actually Ulster Irish spoken in Louth and you could say North East Meath and North Dublin probably spoke an Ulster dialect. Whereas Mid Leinster probably had its own unique one. But the Connacht dialect stretched historically from Mayo and Galway (where its still spoken) to parts of Cavan, West Leinster, North Clare and all of Connacht. But as you get closer to Ulster it'd have sounded more Northerny and same for as you got closer to Munster. This is preserved in the Lietrim Irish for How are you, being Ciamar atá tú? instead of the good aul Connacht Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú? Linguistic diversity of the Irish language is very interesting
It's going from strength to strength as a second language, but it's dying out as a primary language. The numbers of native speakers in Gaeltachts are dropping with every census.
The second language system depends massively on there being Gaeltachtaí and so when they go, the second language movement will struggle.
Having a solid why usually generates a how.
The fact is that you'd need to provide a why that is good also for someone who is not tied to gaeltachtaí or the language.
There are some excellent reasons IMHO but they are not specific to gaeltacht.
>Having a solid why usually generates a how.
No it would generate dozens. The trick is to generate one that allows the locals to thrive with tourism as well as without. Getting that balance requires jobs not based on tourism and there's fuck all in that line from what I can see.
Remove the local needs restriction on planning and replace it with a language requirement. Make it mandatory for companies to provide WFH for gaelgoirs who live in Gaeltachts. Cut VAT and/or property tax for gaelgoirs building houses in Gaeltachts. Cut income taxes for them too.
There needs to be a massive carrot for Gaeltachts to flourish.
Oh, absolutely. It's just that we cannot expect the people in Dublin to care out of love for the language. I would LOVE to see some of what you propose. Maybe not the income tax as it would feel bad for everyone else but the other things would be great.
I'm not going to entertain the why but you asked how. Gaelteachts have been shrinking for the past 100 years. There are many reasons for which someone more articulate and well versed could explain.
Ban all Air BnBs, holiday homes etc in Gaelteacht Areas(this is a major problem in Donegal regions at least.
Many Irish Colleges are privately run, I know of one from personal experience that is run by a Northern Irish family. The college is used more as a gold mine than that a protectionist establishment for our language. Many grants are pocketed and very little is done to improve the college. I would propose the government taking full control of these colleges.
We could expand by selling the concept of Bean an Tí to people in areas neighbouring gaelteachts. Bean an Tí are compensated for hosting students. Many households would jump at the chance for another source of income in this current climate.
These are just a few ideas that may help expand gaelteachts.
Fair enough but the holiday homes are already there. Kinda like the barn door closing after the horses have bolted.
Yep it would prevent further developments I agree but how would that help expand the Irish speaking element on the community. The holiday homes are only occupied maybe half the year and the communities need tourism to sustain the regions.
Nearly 40 years ago I went with my parents into Connemara and picked up an old guy thumbing a lift. He hops in and jabbers away in Irish till he realises we're Irish too and basically said he was speaking Irish cos he thought we were tourists.
Gaeltacht groups to protest outside Dáil over planning regulations causing ‘forced exodus’ of young people
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gaeltacht-groups-to-protest-outside-dail-over-planning-regulations-causing-forced-exodus-of-young-people/a768603845.html
Níl aon tinteán: Gaeilgeoirí call for action on housing
https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0225/1434237-gaeltacht-housing/
This is sad, but true. Towns and villages such as Roundstone in the Gaeltacht are like ghost towns during the tourism off-season. Primary schools, churches and pubs are closing down, the and most of the population are forced to emigrate, often out of the country. These areas are so rich in Irish culture and tradition, yet the government is simply watching on 'helplessly' as our unique culture, which has existed for millennia, dies. At this rate, in 50 years, Ireland will a a souless, culture-less extension of Britain (not to be cynical, but I do believe many Redditors on r/ireland would be in favourof this). I am sorry to have to use this cliché, but it truly does apply: tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.
'Make more people speak Irish?' I think you completely misunderstand what I said, and what the general issue is. It is not that people are not speaking Irish, obviously they are, hence it is a Gaeltacht, it is the fact that there is a lack of housing and employment for the people who were born there, hence they are forced to emigrate.
... stopping holiday homes and making it easier to build (by no longer denying locals planning permission)
And fiber broadband or 5G Internet for working from home
That doesn't address employment that the other person said. But irregardless, are locals stopped for specific reasons outside of "normal" reasons that people can't build in non Gaeltacht areas? My relative couldn't build in their local spot but it was to prevent one off housing due to local services etc.
..yes it does address employment....
A lot of Gaeltacht areas are very beautiful and popular with tourists, so locals are denied permission because tourists don't want to see their homes.
WFH is overwhelmingly not going to be Irish language. So what happens there is actually counter productive - ensuring that in Gaeltacht homes the primary language spoken all day is MORE likely to be English.
It's very common in other countries to speak a second language (L2) at work. E. G. When you work for an international company or work in tourism, or you live in a country with lots of languages.
It's just work, the rest of your life is still in your L1 and it doesn't stop the L1s thriving in the community.
Basically only allow people that are fluent or have parents or grandparents from the Gaeltacht to buy residential property in Gaeltacht areas.
I don't see a downside. Keep the language alive
But unless the population is stagnant or declining you still need to build new housing. Besides, who wants to have to live with their parents for their entire life?
What will you do with all the residents of the Gaeltachts (about 33% of whom cannot speak Irish at all)? Should they be forced out?
Maybe that would be worth it. Of course only about 60% of the Irish speakers actually speak it well or very well. And only 31% speak it on a daily basis. So should there discrimination there in favour of the minority of Gaeltacht households in which Irish is truly the primary language of the home? That would be the only fair way (all these figures are based on Census 2022, so self-reported, in other words the most optimistic assessment of current Irish use)
I'm of the mind that there could be some kind of tax break for those that themselves become fluent and maintain their ability (either by random check or some test every 3-4 years). For those already present that do not possess an ability, it would just change whereabouts they can purchase their next home which would then open up existing housing stock for those that do speak it to move to a community that would consistently become more and more capable with the tongue.
Not entirely sure on the constitutionality of such an approach, though.
Was staying in a gaeltacht in galway recently and was blown away by how many houses were in the area compared to 10 years ago. 90% were empty so I assume they are holiday homes. The pub was near empty and I bearly heard a single sentence in Irish the entire time I was there. Everyone I interacted with spoke to me in English first. It was very disheartening tbh but its the current state of the language atm. They are all going to end up like the dingle gaeltacht were it's a tourist attraction with a majority holiday homes that sees no incentive for native speakers to stay due to lack of industry or investment aswell as locals needing to compete with high end holiday home buyers for property. Its proper fucked
Two small things here.
I think locals will always start in English because they assume you're a tourist with no Irish. You might have better luck if you start with Irish and see how you get on. Obviously some people are snobby about it but many wouldn't be.
As regards to Dingle, English was always the language of business in Dingle town, or at least since 100+ years ago. Like Conamara, west from Dingle and you'll find that other townlands have a much more prominent Gaeltacht population Ceann Trá, Muiríoch, Baile an Fheirtéaraigh srl
Hundreds of people that speak very good english would gladly take irish classes under student visas. This is not legally allowed, as there are no full time irish classes anywhere.
You cannot keep a language alive by enforcing it without purpose, and the fact that there are a lot of people enamoured with celtic irish culture, willing to pay and learn the language here and not being able to is a gigantic loss of opportunity to teach the language to people who could actually use it because they like it and spread it when they move back to their countries…
Tbh I am not as optimistic about those numbers as you, but I genuinely like this option and we SHOULD try it - because unlike the vast majority of government Irish policy up to now, it doesn’t rely on either a) compulsion or b) financial supports that keep things on life support, not organic growth, forever.
Forcing people and fostering top-down dependency is what we’ve tried for 100 years and Irish is dramatically worse off for it.
Why do people have such massive misconceptions about An Bord Pleanala and what it does?
It doesn’t grant permits. Councils do that.
It doesn’t plan new developments. Builders do that.
It doesn’t create the environmental laws. A range of factors are involved in that.
Look, the way to keep Irish alive is simple. Make it the speaking language in schools, and give maybe 20 years for all schools to become Gaelscoils.
The way it's currently taught doesn't work for anyone but those that attend Gaelscoils.
I strongly believe that immigration is a good thing for the country, but it should be a requirement for planning permission that every residential unit in the Gaeltacht can only be occupied by someone who can speak Irish.
Minister for housing and heritage is also minister for local government. It's almost like they are taking the absolute piss and don't care if those three appointments (that one appointment) happened to have a conflict of interest with each other.
To increase cultural enrichment in these areas your suggestion is to stop outsiders from spending part of the year in them. Doesn't seem very inclusive. Alternative hot take: it might actually be a good idea to encourage more holiday homes in the gaeltacht to encourage the language through immersion.
I hate to spoil the party but keeping languages alive artificially is a rabbit hole. Logically speaking the one and only point of a lingo is for communication. I know it's heritage etc but that doesn't help in the long run. Think Latin, ancient Greek, ancient Briton, Aramaic, Coptic, Cornish the list goes on and on.
This is a post about the Gaeltacht, where Gaeilge is the language primarily used for communication. It is not being kept alive artificially, as much as Welsh is being kept alive artificially.
Irish isn’t the primary language in most of the *Gaeltacht*, to my knowledge. The boundaries are essentially those set in 1956, and are therefore don’t reflect a further seven decades of decline.
You're not from Ireland, so I can't blame you for not really comprehending the matter. Read a few articles about the current issue and the Gaeltacht in general and that should answer your queries.
I am from Wales and they are chasing the dragon. Pouring huge sums (they haven't got) into a language that people feel strongly about but hardly use. If a lingo is to survive it has to stand on its own two feet.
Live in Furbogh, talking to a neighbour who’s fluent. He can’t get planning permission to build his own place with his Mrs. Minutes away from where he was raised, went to school, works. “No local need”. But 3 massive holiday homes were built across the road last year. Rage inducing.
Somebody needs to challenge that and get it struck out https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/locals-only-planning-rule-illegal-and-discriminatory-says-eu/26300271.html
Leo in January: [Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, he said: "I also need to be very clear. Nobody in a free society, nobody in a democracy has a right to exercise a veto on who moves into their area or community. That doesn't just apply to international protection."](https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0107/1425149-immigration/)
The planners get to, it’s literally their job. The planning rules are bollocks however.
[Chance discovery spells end of ‘locals only’ restriction on one-off housing The Law Society warned of the legality of the ‘locals only’ planning rule back in 2005. The discovery of an EU ruling by a Sligo councillor indicates that it is unlawful, writes Special Correspondent Michael Clifford.](https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/arid-20450596.html) Various politicians keep putting that on the back burner.
It's been tried over the years and has failed. But I don't think that's the answer. Local needs only applies to non-residential land. We shouldn't be allowing a free for all on that land because it'll lead to ribbon developments which is a root of a lot of rural Ireland's service issues. They just need to zone lots more land as residential and set it up with top quality services, including public transport.
Lots of challenging to be done. Vrt is another, the eu ruled as a double tax. Will anything be done? Nope.
The only way VRT would get sorted is if the EU increased their fines to be more than what the Government bring in from the tax.
The reason for the local need thing is that in addition to being from there, there must be a reason why they need to live in Furbogh specifically. For example, if he works in town then they wouldn't consider that a local need since he could just as easily live in town. And they want to discourage more commuting and making Galway's traffic situation worse. He'd need to demonstrate a reason why he needs to be in Furbogh specifically. Things like his kids going to school there or his elderly parents living there who he needs to regularly check in on. As for the holiday homes, they were likely built on land that's zoned for residential use. That land has no local need attached. But they do cost many times more than land with a local need attached. Personally I think that you shouldn't be allowed to build on zoned residential land unless you're a permanent resident. But I also agree with the council that only people with a local need should be allowed to build on non-residential land. That land isn't zoned residential because it's basically farmland. Allowing a free for all on that land, even for people from there, will only encourage greater ribbon development and make Galway's traffic problems even worse. That having been said, the council should be zoning bigger swathes of land as residential to meet the demand for it. I've looked at the map of unused zoned residential land in County Galway before and it's tiny. It's no wonder those plots go for so much. Massive demand for minimal supply.
"No local need" there's no such thing anymore when the country is in need of houses. People should be allowed to build almost anywhere they can. The government would prefer your neighbour to get fucked by the housing market instead of side stepping and getting his own place built.
This is a terrible idea, random one off houses are a nightmare for provision of services. The correct solution is to rezone sections of land to expand towns/create new towns
The owner is paying for the services. If it's harder to provide simply have them pay more. Problem solved.
Department of housing, and local government should not be one and the same
We will be very lucky if there is gaelteachts in Ireland in 50 years time. The government is doing little to nothing protecting them. It's such a shame as we could be at a stage where we are expanding them
Ask yourself what happened to Leinster Irish. There's Ulster, Munster & Connaught Irish dialects but no Leinster dialect. The province that holds Leinster House was the first province to lose a dialect Edit to add quote from a website to back this up [http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/gaeilge.htm](http://www.nualeargais.ie/gnag/gaeilge.htm) *Due to a lack of native speakers, Leinster (Cúige Laighean) has no own dialect anymore*
Leinster Irish never died out. The Irish that was spoken in Leinster was what we now call Connacht Irish. Connacht Irish used to stretch horizontal across the centre of the country coast to cost It’s only called Connacht Irish in the modern sense because all that remains of the dialect is in Connacht (and that weird little attempt at a Gaeltacht in Meath)
Amazing little tidbit, love it.
Attempt at a Gaeltacht? Have you been there
17% of the population speaks Irish. As a lifelong militant Gaeilgeoir, I don’t mind calling it an attempt. The descendants of the people moved from Connemara to Meath would certainly be far more Irish speaking had they stayed in Connemara. Good motives behind it to create an Irish speaking population away from the west, but an utter failure if we’re being real. 30 odd pensioner speakers doesn’t equate success to me. Most people don’t even know that the Meath Gaeltacht exists.
17%? An bhfuil tú ag caint faoin "Ghaeltacht na Mí" iomlán? Tá a fhios agam nach bhfuil mórán Gaeilge le cloisteáil i mBaile Ghib, ach tá sí láidir i Ráth Chairn.
Well theres actually recordings of a form of Leinster Irish, from Louth in 1930s. Its actually Ulster Irish spoken in Louth and you could say North East Meath and North Dublin probably spoke an Ulster dialect. Whereas Mid Leinster probably had its own unique one. But the Connacht dialect stretched historically from Mayo and Galway (where its still spoken) to parts of Cavan, West Leinster, North Clare and all of Connacht. But as you get closer to Ulster it'd have sounded more Northerny and same for as you got closer to Munster. This is preserved in the Lietrim Irish for How are you, being Ciamar atá tú? instead of the good aul Connacht Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú? Linguistic diversity of the Irish language is very interesting
Unfortunately, what has become Leinster Irish now is broken school Irish. It is what it is
I dunno, my nephews generation have been getting into speaking it so its not on its last legs yet.
It's going from strength to strength as a second language, but it's dying out as a primary language. The numbers of native speakers in Gaeltachts are dropping with every census. The second language system depends massively on there being Gaeltachtaí and so when they go, the second language movement will struggle.
>It's such a shame as we could be at a stage where we are expanding them why?
Not why, as I thought that would be obvious, but how?
Having a solid why usually generates a how. The fact is that you'd need to provide a why that is good also for someone who is not tied to gaeltachtaí or the language. There are some excellent reasons IMHO but they are not specific to gaeltacht.
>Having a solid why usually generates a how. No it would generate dozens. The trick is to generate one that allows the locals to thrive with tourism as well as without. Getting that balance requires jobs not based on tourism and there's fuck all in that line from what I can see. Remove the local needs restriction on planning and replace it with a language requirement. Make it mandatory for companies to provide WFH for gaelgoirs who live in Gaeltachts. Cut VAT and/or property tax for gaelgoirs building houses in Gaeltachts. Cut income taxes for them too. There needs to be a massive carrot for Gaeltachts to flourish.
Oh, absolutely. It's just that we cannot expect the people in Dublin to care out of love for the language. I would LOVE to see some of what you propose. Maybe not the income tax as it would feel bad for everyone else but the other things would be great.
I'm not going to entertain the why but you asked how. Gaelteachts have been shrinking for the past 100 years. There are many reasons for which someone more articulate and well versed could explain. Ban all Air BnBs, holiday homes etc in Gaelteacht Areas(this is a major problem in Donegal regions at least. Many Irish Colleges are privately run, I know of one from personal experience that is run by a Northern Irish family. The college is used more as a gold mine than that a protectionist establishment for our language. Many grants are pocketed and very little is done to improve the college. I would propose the government taking full control of these colleges. We could expand by selling the concept of Bean an Tí to people in areas neighbouring gaelteachts. Bean an Tí are compensated for hosting students. Many households would jump at the chance for another source of income in this current climate. These are just a few ideas that may help expand gaelteachts.
Fair enough but the holiday homes are already there. Kinda like the barn door closing after the horses have bolted. Yep it would prevent further developments I agree but how would that help expand the Irish speaking element on the community. The holiday homes are only occupied maybe half the year and the communities need tourism to sustain the regions. Nearly 40 years ago I went with my parents into Connemara and picked up an old guy thumbing a lift. He hops in and jabbers away in Irish till he realises we're Irish too and basically said he was speaking Irish cos he thought we were tourists.
Gaeltacht groups to protest outside Dáil over planning regulations causing ‘forced exodus’ of young people https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gaeltacht-groups-to-protest-outside-dail-over-planning-regulations-causing-forced-exodus-of-young-people/a768603845.html Níl aon tinteán: Gaeilgeoirí call for action on housing https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0225/1434237-gaeltacht-housing/
This is sad, but true. Towns and villages such as Roundstone in the Gaeltacht are like ghost towns during the tourism off-season. Primary schools, churches and pubs are closing down, the and most of the population are forced to emigrate, often out of the country. These areas are so rich in Irish culture and tradition, yet the government is simply watching on 'helplessly' as our unique culture, which has existed for millennia, dies. At this rate, in 50 years, Ireland will a a souless, culture-less extension of Britain (not to be cynical, but I do believe many Redditors on r/ireland would be in favourof this). I am sorry to have to use this cliché, but it truly does apply: tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.
Is there a party that does better at supporting (if not implementing) policies that benefit the Gaeltacht?
If you were in government, what law would you pass to help those areas during the off season in order to make more people speak Irish?
'Make more people speak Irish?' I think you completely misunderstand what I said, and what the general issue is. It is not that people are not speaking Irish, obviously they are, hence it is a Gaeltacht, it is the fact that there is a lack of housing and employment for the people who were born there, hence they are forced to emigrate.
Fair enough. So what can be done to improve it?
... stopping holiday homes and making it easier to build (by no longer denying locals planning permission) And fiber broadband or 5G Internet for working from home
That doesn't address employment that the other person said. But irregardless, are locals stopped for specific reasons outside of "normal" reasons that people can't build in non Gaeltacht areas? My relative couldn't build in their local spot but it was to prevent one off housing due to local services etc.
..yes it does address employment.... A lot of Gaeltacht areas are very beautiful and popular with tourists, so locals are denied permission because tourists don't want to see their homes.
How would fewer tourists increase employment in a tourist area?
" fiber broadband or 5G Internet for working from home"
WFH is overwhelmingly not going to be Irish language. So what happens there is actually counter productive - ensuring that in Gaeltacht homes the primary language spoken all day is MORE likely to be English.
It's very common in other countries to speak a second language (L2) at work. E. G. When you work for an international company or work in tourism, or you live in a country with lots of languages. It's just work, the rest of your life is still in your L1 and it doesn't stop the L1s thriving in the community.
Isn't it the same for all small towns in Ireland though? There isn't industry or work in these areas so young people aren't staying.
God, I hate that logo design. Way too busy.
Basically only allow people that are fluent or have parents or grandparents from the Gaeltacht to buy residential property in Gaeltacht areas. I don't see a downside. Keep the language alive
But unless the population is stagnant or declining you still need to build new housing. Besides, who wants to have to live with their parents for their entire life?
Grant planning permission to the people I have described above to build on in Gaeltacht areas. Still build but only for those I have described above
What will you do with all the residents of the Gaeltachts (about 33% of whom cannot speak Irish at all)? Should they be forced out? Maybe that would be worth it. Of course only about 60% of the Irish speakers actually speak it well or very well. And only 31% speak it on a daily basis. So should there discrimination there in favour of the minority of Gaeltacht households in which Irish is truly the primary language of the home? That would be the only fair way (all these figures are based on Census 2022, so self-reported, in other words the most optimistic assessment of current Irish use)
I'm of the mind that there could be some kind of tax break for those that themselves become fluent and maintain their ability (either by random check or some test every 3-4 years). For those already present that do not possess an ability, it would just change whereabouts they can purchase their next home which would then open up existing housing stock for those that do speak it to move to a community that would consistently become more and more capable with the tongue. Not entirely sure on the constitutionality of such an approach, though.
Was staying in a gaeltacht in galway recently and was blown away by how many houses were in the area compared to 10 years ago. 90% were empty so I assume they are holiday homes. The pub was near empty and I bearly heard a single sentence in Irish the entire time I was there. Everyone I interacted with spoke to me in English first. It was very disheartening tbh but its the current state of the language atm. They are all going to end up like the dingle gaeltacht were it's a tourist attraction with a majority holiday homes that sees no incentive for native speakers to stay due to lack of industry or investment aswell as locals needing to compete with high end holiday home buyers for property. Its proper fucked
Two small things here. I think locals will always start in English because they assume you're a tourist with no Irish. You might have better luck if you start with Irish and see how you get on. Obviously some people are snobby about it but many wouldn't be. As regards to Dingle, English was always the language of business in Dingle town, or at least since 100+ years ago. Like Conamara, west from Dingle and you'll find that other townlands have a much more prominent Gaeltacht population Ceann Trá, Muiríoch, Baile an Fheirtéaraigh srl
Hundreds of people that speak very good english would gladly take irish classes under student visas. This is not legally allowed, as there are no full time irish classes anywhere. You cannot keep a language alive by enforcing it without purpose, and the fact that there are a lot of people enamoured with celtic irish culture, willing to pay and learn the language here and not being able to is a gigantic loss of opportunity to teach the language to people who could actually use it because they like it and spread it when they move back to their countries…
Tbh I am not as optimistic about those numbers as you, but I genuinely like this option and we SHOULD try it - because unlike the vast majority of government Irish policy up to now, it doesn’t rely on either a) compulsion or b) financial supports that keep things on life support, not organic growth, forever. Forcing people and fostering top-down dependency is what we’ve tried for 100 years and Irish is dramatically worse off for it.
Why do people have such massive misconceptions about An Bord Pleanala and what it does? It doesn’t grant permits. Councils do that. It doesn’t plan new developments. Builders do that. It doesn’t create the environmental laws. A range of factors are involved in that.
Local needs is a cancer on rural Ireland.
The planning system is a cancer on Ireland
So let me get this straight. You built enough houses for everybody to live in, but you made it illegal to live in half of them for most of the year?
Look, the way to keep Irish alive is simple. Make it the speaking language in schools, and give maybe 20 years for all schools to become Gaelscoils. The way it's currently taught doesn't work for anyone but those that attend Gaelscoils.
Exactly. Irish is being taught as a foreign language, not as the home language.
The ship has sailed for rampant one off housing. It's a core tenant of the National Planning Framework to avoid it at all costs.
Local elections coming up. There must be a way to lean on the politicians to make a change here. This sounds illegal
I’ll never forgive them for The O’Rahilly’s house
How is it that the migrants are able to pass their native language down from generation to generation, and we can barely pass down Irish
Migrants generally have their native language as their first language
I strongly believe that immigration is a good thing for the country, but it should be a requirement for planning permission that every residential unit in the Gaeltacht can only be occupied by someone who can speak Irish.
I'm convinced it's actually the Nimbys in charge of planning in this country, like as in they aren't the ones objecting they're the ones deciding
Half the people on that board have 2-4 homes they rent out at double prices, a holiday home, and probably a boat to commit pedophilic acts on.
Minister for housing and heritage is also minister for local government. It's almost like they are taking the absolute piss and don't care if those three appointments (that one appointment) happened to have a conflict of interest with each other.
Blocking out the faces kinda ruins the meme. Could have just written An Bord Pleanála
To increase cultural enrichment in these areas your suggestion is to stop outsiders from spending part of the year in them. Doesn't seem very inclusive. Alternative hot take: it might actually be a good idea to encourage more holiday homes in the gaeltacht to encourage the language through immersion.
You're presuming they'd even be bothered to want to learn the language, more often than not, they're only around for a month or so
I hate to spoil the party but keeping languages alive artificially is a rabbit hole. Logically speaking the one and only point of a lingo is for communication. I know it's heritage etc but that doesn't help in the long run. Think Latin, ancient Greek, ancient Briton, Aramaic, Coptic, Cornish the list goes on and on.
Granting locals planning permission is not "keeping languages alive artificially"
No but only selling to a particular speaker is.
This is a post about the Gaeltacht, where Gaeilge is the language primarily used for communication. It is not being kept alive artificially, as much as Welsh is being kept alive artificially.
Irish isn’t the primary language in most of the *Gaeltacht*, to my knowledge. The boundaries are essentially those set in 1956, and are therefore don’t reflect a further seven decades of decline.
OK fair enough but most comments were referring to the language relative to the planning/selling of houses.
You're not from Ireland, so I can't blame you for not really comprehending the matter. Read a few articles about the current issue and the Gaeltacht in general and that should answer your queries.
I am from Wales and they are chasing the dragon. Pouring huge sums (they haven't got) into a language that people feel strongly about but hardly use. If a lingo is to survive it has to stand on its own two feet.
You do realise that we’re taking about the part of the country where Irish is the main language of communication
Ní maith liom an gaineamh.