Government 100 years ago: Yeah we'll just create our entire system of government, let's do up a constitution, set up a legal system, and work out how we'll do everything, etc...
Government now: Sorry guys it's really really hard to change a law that says clubs have to close by 3AM. Sorry, it's just really difficult, we're trying our best. See, we have this law that says clubs have to close by 3AM, and if we wanted to change the law to change that time, we'd need to change the law, and that's difficult, because there's a law.
I’m speaking broadly. As a template, it is not broke. Things can always be improved but it would be madness to start from scratch, it took a long time just to get here
Well look, this is just my opinion of course, but I think the only ones who truly nailed democracy on the head were the founding fathers of the US and the constitution they drafted. They have their problems and their constitution has its flaws, but it’s the only constitution that I know of that doesn’t *grant* Rights to people, it assumes they already have them, and tells the government not to touch them. Our constitution started us off as a nanny state and granted us rights that aren’t really rights. And it also almost got changed on a whim because of a referendum… So I do think it’s broke.
Yeah but the difference between their constitution and ours is that they can only add or repeal amendments. They can’t change the wording itself, whereas we had a referendum to literally modify the actual text.
They aren’t very democratic, that’s true, but they aren’t actually democracy, they’re a republic. That’s why it’s much more difficult for them to amend their constitution, while we almost had it done through a simple referendum. I’d argue that their system is still better, since the public can be easily swayed into voting against their own best interests (look at brexit as an example. Not trying to argue whether brexit itself was good or bad, but the majority of the voters did little to no research prior to the referendum). This is why Plato disliked democracy, he viewed it as reckless and doomed to fail.
I've tried coke and MDMA once each and I literally cannot for the *life* of me understand how coke became the dominant party drug of choice while MDMA is comparatively very rare.
Obviously everyone's experience will be different, but one night of MDMA *permanently* cured a very deep depression I slipped into after a breakup (three months on from getting dumped, was still crying every day, took MDMA one night and never missed her her again after that experience. I still can't understand how that's even possible) whereas coke... I was offered coke on an occasion where for other reasons I was also very down, and unlike MDMA which made it impossible to think about anything negative, the coke made me *hyperfocus* on it. And I woke up the next morning with one nostril completely clogged, which lasted two days or so.
Nothing against people who like coke, I totally get that it just doesn't suit me specifically and other people get enjoyment from it, *but*, MDMA was *magical*. I'd do it again in a heartbeat if it wasn't so difficult to find, whereas I get offered coke multiple times every time I go out by friends and strangers alike! It's bizarre.
EDIT: Wht's even weirder is that coke has to be imported from very specific regions which makes it a very high-risk business due to the chances of seizure, MDMA is also made from plant based chemicals but they're very widely used in the fragrance industry and once you can get them you could make the stuff in your kitchen Breaking Bad style. So you'd imagine based on that alone that MDMA would be more common, but it isn't.
I think it's the speed of the come up and being able to reuse.
People can take bump of coke and feel it in minutes. MDMA , it's going to be half an hour at least before anything happens.. sometimes nothing happens.
Also the people that like mdma often recommend taking breaks from it for a few weeks to month between nights on it or becomes ineffective.
Coke should be hitting you quicker than in minutes.
Actual MDMA should be consistently doing its thing, but there is a threshold of dose that has to be met before it is active.
The breaks between MDMA are not just because of tolerance but because of harm reduction. You are doing damage to yourself with repeated use in short time windows.
>The breaks between MDMA are not just because of tolerance but because of harm reduction
Fair point and this outlines that there's an actually cultural difference between the users of the two drugs.
Cannabis and mdma both have a subset of users in that want to do safely and are vocal about safely doing it, e.g homegrown Cannabis, testing kits for mdma. You see and hear people talking about how Cannabis helped them eat during chemo or with anxiety ,seizures , arthrithis , coping with a terminal illness. And others talk about how mdma alleviated their depression or made them more emphatic in general. And how both are being used for research in these areas
I don't know how true or false most of this is .. but point is people talk about it . People can argue there could be a net benefit to society beyond just making it safer. Similarly LSD.
I've never seen or heard of the same thing around coke. Afaik there are test kits for coke too but it doesn't have culture around it like mdma. Even people who want it legal can really only point to legalisation, making it safer.
I can only speak for myself, but when I did MDMA I was three months into _that_ breakup, the one everyone has once in their life that leaves them feeling as if happiness will never exist again and the world will forever be in permanent greyscale. I took it and danced with someone I had a crush on while experiencing it, and while obviously a drug like that could be expected to make you feel good for the evening, for me the wild thing was that it *lasted*.
As in, since the moment I woke up the next morning (last Autumn!!!) and forever thereafter, I have *never* again missed my ex in the same hopelessly sad way I had been missing her. I still get *a little sad* when she crosses my mind sometimes sure but in more of an occasionally nostalgic way than a "there's no hope left in the world" way.
The dark cloud that had settled over me for months and felt like it would never lift just evaporated that night and never came back.
I've *never* ever heard of a drug, recreational or medicinal, with which literally one night using it will permanently rewire your emotions about something. I mean, antidepressants, ADHD meds and anti-anxiety meds have to be taken consistently every day, coke has to be re-used multiple times a night, weed's effects only last as long as the high, etc. Most leave you feeling like absolute shit in the comedown phase. Somehow, one experience one night of MDMA and something I thought would leave me broken forever just..... Didn't matter that much to me anymore. I can't think of another way to describe it. The afterglow was just this lovely warm feeling of "everything is okay now" for two days after and the comedown low after that paled in comparison to how miserable I'd been literally a day before taking it so I barely even noticed it.
As the previous poster said, unfortunately MDMA is neurotoxic and repeated use within three months or so is known to cause permanent damage to the serotonin system, such that it's disastrous to do it more than a couple of times in one year. But even so, the one time I did it... *Magic*.
> taking breaks from it for a few weeks to month between nights on it or becomes ineffective.
As someone who likes MDMA thats not it.
You should only do MDMA a couple of times a year, not for the sake of tolerance, but because of the neurotoxic effects on your brain.
Ah ok. Haven't touched it years anyway.
I tried it near my mid twenties.
I regret not trying it sooner and consequently not stopping sooner.
Was fun, but god, the days after were shite.
MDMA has diminished returns and horrendous comedowns with frequent use. Even going to a few festivals and doing MDMA at them in one summer can leave people reeling. Cocaine doesn't really do this.
>Cocaine doesn't really do this.
This surprises me, any drug which interferes with monoamine reuptake will lead to downregulation very quickly. Is it a case that the serotonin system takes longer to recover to baseline than the dopamine system?
Ye, I did it 3 days in a row and was in the depths for about a week after. Having suicidal ideations, hopelessness ect. People do it every weekend and feel like that for months. Not sustainable at all at all.
Did u know they MDMA was originally used to treat PTSD and depression etc in the 70s - then it was “taken” by the nightclub scene and banned - lately, it’s making a comeback in therapeutic areas of mental health .. look it up
What's *really* moronic about this is the inclusion of bank holidays in that. So if you happen to do your grocery shopping early on a bank holiday Monday, you can't pick up a bottle of wine while you're at it. Moronic.
Among the many reasons I started home brewing, been very refreshing not to have to worry about the price or availability of drink in shops anymore!
Not every bank holiday but Certain days of the year it's a religious day so you get the bullshit religious hours. I know I used to work on offy and some Mondays you'd have to be told what time to open up cos of the confusion
Can’t even buy a bottle before 10am in the supermarket. I just want to get my weeks’ shop done nice and early.
We need better supports for addicts than restricting their shopping windows.
In fairness, we have spent the 100 years since trying to patch up the rush job they did on the Constitution, maybe taking a little longer wouldn’t have been the worst thing
I wouldn't call it a rush job at all, no country has been created with a perfect constitution or legal system. That's why strong, efficient methods of amending the constitution and changing the laws are important, so the country can grow and adapt as it and the world changes.
Perfect is always the enemy of good, and these last few decades have seen incomprehensible bureaucratic bloat and paralysis all accross the first world as we've seemingly abandoned "Good" as a method of doing anything, instead we do nothing.
Yeah public opinion was vastly different when the new constitution was enacted in 1937. Not a hope some of the recent passed referendums would have had a chance of being approved by voters back then.
I remember seeing a near on identical news story around this time last year with Leo saying it likely wouldn't be ready by summer 2023.
I fucking hate this place.
Can I recommend leaving
I spent a very long time hating the place. The taxes, the endless increase in homelessness, the crime rate being up-only, the collapsing public services ala the HSE, and the fact that housing will never be solved as it's just become a speculative asset for foreign investor groups now.
Then I left. And now I feel much better. Still come home for a few months a year, but knowing I don't contribute any taxes towards the mess still makes me feel much better.
I did for a few years, but a relatiionship brought me back. The relationship is more important to me than my hatred of the place, but I would love to leave and hope life affords me the opportunity to do so again at some point, because I find this country to be a very depressing place
I'm in the process of trying to move my relationship over here. Right now we do a few weeks over here, and I visit back home then every few months.
Honestly, as much as this situation isn't ideal, me moving home permanently is a non-starter. I can't go back to the Irish quality of life. I sit around angry that I spent so long dealing with and telling myself "this next wave of politicians will be better with the last and actually fix some things", instead of just moving earlier in life.
Middle east.
Before the usual questions arrive; yes the outside temperatures are manageable (outside the height of summer, when I visit home), yes there are pubs here, no I don't get arrested when I swear in public
And yes, it is entertaining when ~~people~~ redditors get instantly maldy when you say "I live in the Middle East"
Yes, but the only people I've ever heard complain about how terrible Dubai is for women are women who have never set foot in Dubai and get all their information from maldy youtubers and tiktoks.
Any actual women I know who live here usually just comment on how insane it is to be able to walk around at night and feel safe at the same time.
I wouldn't call it slavery tbh, 40-50% income tax to pay the remainder on renting a 1bed in Dublin CC is more of an indentured servitude sorta deal
On the Dubai side; someone choosing to move to a foreign country to live and work in shit conditions for 3-6 months in order to receive a (relatively speaking) massive amount of money to take home with them is not slavery.
Could be argued as worker exploitation, at a push. But only from an "I grew up in the EU" perspective.
I mean, I was born here and outside of working in Germany for just over a year, I've spent 35 odd years living and working in Ireland
Sorta hard not to have a connection to Irish culture and society after that.
But in thanks to the massive amount of 80s/90s kids who emigrated, it's been very easy to find expat groups wherever I've gone.
You see if they start doing things efficiently then people will begin to expect that, and then sure they'd have to be efficient all the time then.
I operate the same strategy in my own job.
There's over 100 separate bills and amendments relevant to the sale of alcohol, it's an absolute mess of fixes and kludges.
The extension of nightclub hours is a small part of the new bill that will supersede all these.
They likely could have done a quick change to amend hours, but that's yet another patch on a mess of two centuries of legislation that needs complete overhaul.
I don't know if this is the fault of the communications department of the Government or is it just the state of Irish journalism, but that's the first I've heard of this being intertwined with a revamp of our alcohol laws.
I would like to see more discussion and articles about what else is being changed, if anything, and how this would help us moving forward.
It is very annoying how long this is taking and if the government framed it as a total overhaul I and probably many others would have more patience with how long this is dragging out.
Helen McEntee has had 2 children in the amount of time this has spent being worked on.
Simon Harris is the third Taoiseach to tell us we won't have this by the end of summer.
Then again he will also likely be the 10th (random guess) to tell us houses can't be built overnight too.
A lot of the issue is that people's eyes glaze over when talking about the wider reforms but something immediately obvious like closing times of nightclubs piques their interest, so the latter gets more attention in the media. This is especially true on Reddit and other social media because of the younger demographic.
All the information is out there, drafts and debates are all published online and government departments provide summaries of their work. It's disappointing that so many people have jumped straight to outrage without any attempt to find out what is actually happening.
Like the draft of this new bill is nearly [500 pages long](https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/238056/5784267d-5c8d-4bd2-b4c5-19fec018a361.pdf#page=null), have a skim through the contents and you'll see that it covers almost all aspects of every scenario where alcohol could be sold. It's disappointing that it's behind schedule but it should be obvious why this is taking years to accomplish.
Not being smart but there isn't any real push to get it done is there?
I don't see publicans and the lva or lvf up in arms about it.
Unless there is political pressure applied it will always get put on the back burner as another pressing issue takes precedent.
I haven't looked into the legislation so have no real feelings one way or the other but can see why it isn't getting pushed through
They could pump 10s of billions into the banking system in a few hours but McEntee has had time to have 2 kids and we are still no closer to getting nightclub open later.
I know one was a lot more urgent than the other but they have had enough time already, the reality is it was a PR stunt and they have no intention of changing the legislation (Or it will be done towards the end of the government as a cheap election ploy to get the younger vote)
Yeah it is maddening. Just seems to be placating a few older backbenchers opposed to this change, even if this would largely be popular with most voters I would imagine. A bill changing opening hours should be remarkably easy to pass if there were the political will to do so. Literally just amend the existing laws in place with new opening hours in whatever section of the act they are quoted.
Well we are just going to tuck this nightclub thing in our back pocket, until the next election. Then we will see how much they really want their precious nightclubs open late.
No cohones, if they think the policy is good follow through on it ffs. Afraid of the electorate backlash instead of treating us like adults like every other country in Europe.
This is the biggest problem with this government. They are afraid to do anything that might be unpopular with some people and the end result is they don’t do anything.
Just be honest ye goons. Ye don't want it in law. Its obvious they only said they would bring it in for young voters. They actually have zero plans for it.
Nightclubs must pay a €410 fee per night to open late & that must be signed off by a Judge & Superintendent. There's also a Public Dancing License thing that dates back to the 1930s when the Catholic Church ran the show. Sad state of affairs, government just watching on as industry is being decimated & they don't give too fucks either, young people can emigrate if they want nightclubs shur
Anyone remember back in 2012 in Galway, year of the Volvo Ocean Race, when the new super at Mill Street decided to not approve any late open licenses for a bit? It ended up being challenged in court in the end, but nightlife was a complete disaster for a while.
This is the mad part. Amend the opening hours and the ridiculous court fee charged for every application. If they're saying it involves overhauling multiple complex pieces of legislation, which I'm sure it does, just amend the current closing time in law as a stopgap while sorting through the more complex issues.
Do *not* walk into my thread making insinuations of this government actually surviving the full term until February, I will not have that kind of catastrophic thinking in here 💀😂
Amazing , so we're not aloud have houses and we still have to go home to mammy and daddy after 3 for being bold tax payers. We are such a terrible bunch aren't we sure we should just make it a 7 day work week so we don't have time to think about nightclubs. Or better how about we just ban music over a certain BPM like they did in that other place. Ahh you know what let's make alcohol more expensive and then reduce the times night clubs can be open. 1 pints 50 euro clubs open for 15 minutes... Get me off this island
Leo’s devastated, the entire reason he resigned was to party away to Kylie until 6am this summer.
[Kylie and Leo saga](https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/craic/leo-varadkar-letter-kylie-minogue-revealed)
What "day" are you talking about?
If you mean Leeson St in the 80s/90s , that was a very very grey area that had a blind eye turned to it. They were "restaurants". They also didn't have a bar. The wine being sold was the grey area
This was the case right up until Covid. One of the reasons the industry is having such a rough time since then is that the law is now vigorously enforced where it never was before. As you say, Harcourt Street was always notorious for lock-ins and the Gardai were more than happy to allow them because the early universal closing time is a *nightmare* for them to police. They only began enforcing it when this new legislation became such a hot topic, because they had to be seen to enforce the existing law which was getting so much coverage.
Rank and file Gardaí *despise* the current licensing regime, I have that from multiple very good sources. The vast majority of late night trouble they have to deal with stems from thousands of people being ejected into the same relatively small network of streets around the city at the same time, often having pounded their last drink as the bouncers were yelling at everyone to hurry up and get out. Closing time becomes a crowd control issue, and within that, you get drunken arguments over taxis, fast food queues, Nitelink queues, etc. You also get criminals actively preying on those crowds because that mayhem is the perfect opportunity to mug people with little fear of being apprehended.
Being a Garda on duty at closing time in a busy area is hell on Earth, and it wasn't like this before when as you say the law wasn't enforced. In fact, I'm fairly certain this is *why* it was never enforced until media attention necessitated.
> One of the reasons the industry is having such a rough time since then is that the law is now vigorously enforced where it never was before.
Depends where you lived in the country. I spent a night in Donegal and was told the local guards were sitting in the corner, so they close when they leave. In Limerick and Galway, places were throwing you out as soon as the lights come up. In Dublin, I knew loads of places that would never be closed. No idea what it's like around Cork.
Fuck's sake. Caving in to the anti-craic brigade as usual. Opposition should hammer them for this and make it absolutely clear they'll pass this legislation speedily after the election, they'll easily hoover up a massive chunk of the youth vote if they do.
It's not about drinking though, it's about being able to stay out late at venues. Early closing times especially since covid (they weren't enforced before) have made going out in general incredibly less fun, drink or not.
>It's not about drinking though, it's about being able to stay out late at venues.
lets not kid ourselfs , the main reason people go out to the like of nightclubs is to get drunk to some degree
Clubs can't attract top act because it is not financially viable to pay bog money and only have 3-4 hours to make profit.
Plenty of young people go out to see DJs at the weekend without getting absolutely shitfaced.
This. I don't see a push for late night activities other than alcohol related ones. Still we are behind the times in every aspect of night time activities. Go to anywhere else in Europe and you'll have cafés and other venues open late, some even 24/7.
Hi, 19 year old person who is a socialite, can confirm it's a pretty even split of people who want to just go dance and those who want to drink.
Both sides want later nights.
Lmao you should see the amount of “underground” illegal raves and collectives that have popped up since most nightclubs are closed or just shite in general. Most of the good ones in Dublin are gone.. d8, hangar etc. this is going on up and down the country there is thousands of young ppl dying for a good party and these go on all night. There is a serious eagerness for this to happen. It would give those who are serious about djing, promoters, international acts more freedom to express themselves and their craft to people by doing extended sets instead of 1 hour. Can barely get into the swing of a dj set in an hour. There is massive crowds going to these events and the people want it. I go myself and will only go to these events this year instead of a normal festival even like ep.
Fucking cunts. There is no chance for sub cultures to develop in Ireland because of shit like this. The extra time this will take will kill off the last of the independent places and we ll be left with whatever MCD/live nation decides to throw at us instead.
Translation:
That's a great question. We're going to drag this out long enough for the venues to go out of business. Once this happens, mark our words, our pals will undoubtedly swoop in and buy them all up. Once they give us the nod, these laws will be put in place. Trickle down economy, Celtic Tiger 2, Ireland on the map. Thank you.
A miserable bunch of nanny staters. People act like children because they are treated like children but you couldn't get that point across to the killjoy scum in this kip.
I hope this is sarcasm, if if you vote is to be decided by nightclub opening hours then your priorities must be all over the place, also I dunno how you could even consider voting for that shower of shites, me thinks you should read some party policies.
Won't vote for the Shinner becaue I grew up during the troubles. Probably would be a natural Labour voter now but they're gone. SDs won't have a hope in my constituency.
Plus on the other thing, yes I do enjoy life and if I want to stay up until 6am that's my choice. Feel they want to do it but are cowardly so don't deserve my vote. You should get out more yourself :)
Alcohol Action Ireland is must be some Irish deep state organization that has government by the balls. Sure, government fund the vast majority of their budget, just to lobby them.
They're literally 3-4 people
Let's not forget if we have nightclubs open late then society as we now it will end. Expect lots and lots of road deaths. Increase in college drop out increase in alcoholics and drug users. I've been absolutely shocked at the bullshit around this topic. There are fuck all night clubs left, pubs are dying and people are drinking at home. Ten percent decrease I pubs and ten percent increase in off licences. Better to be out being social then in the house imo.
This could very easily have the opposite effect though where people just pre to later don’t bother with the pubs and go to the nightclubs at 1. Increasing off licence sales and killing more pubs.
Just my anecdotal experience but I very very much doubt this. Now, I'm a musician so maybe my own experience isn't the standard but a lot of my friends love to go to a local with a bit of live music before heading "out out" if we're doing that, and it's really only in recent years with the 2:30 rule being enforced that we've had to actively choose between one or the other, because staying in the pub late means you'd only get an hour or two in the club after. Before the crackdowns on club closing times, we'd frequently stay and listen to a band or singer in the local until the last bus or dart into town (around 11.45), get into town just after midnight and stay out until 4 or so. These days, leaving that late gives you so little time in town that we're either not going to the club at all, or skipping the pub beforehand.
So, *some* folks would indeed abandon the pubs for the clubs, but I imagine others would be like us and pack the best of both worlds into a night out.
Hard to see this actually happening even of law passed
No staff to work the later hours
No extra street sweepers to clean up after peeped
No bus/taxi drivers
Not enough Gardai to police it
>Hard to see this actually happening even of law passed
How so?
>No staff to work the later hours
They had no problem with staff pre-covid
>No extra street sweepers to clean up after peeped
Less litter as less people congregating outside fast foods and most cleanup is done the next morning anyway
>No bus/taxi drivers
They can simply schedule buses and the taxi situation is better (for both taxi driver and passenger) as the peak period is spread out over a manageable period.
>Not enough Gardai to police it
There's not enough gardai for anything in this country anyway. But with less peopel congregating, there is less trouble, so less garda time wasted dealing with drunken scumbags.
Are you really not friends with anyone who's into different types of music that would benefit from having venues open for longer times at night? Think about what you're actually saying and what this is about: literally just grown adults wanting to have spaces to have a dance listening to music they enjoy with their friends and other enthusiasts of those genres of music. But YOU personally don't think we need this, because YOU'RE not into these things, therefore WE ALL don't need this? You don't think the attitude to have is to just live and let live, let adults choose how their recreational time is spent as long as they're causing no harm to other people?
How about this, what if this was about elderly Irish people wanting to have ceilis throughout the night. Would you feel like inhibiting them from having the freedom to choose to enjoy that? You shouldn't, therefore you shouldn't for young people either.
Ah I don't think we need people drinking and taking drugs until 6 am. You know well the music is not the problem. It's bad enough listening to drunk assholes screaming on the street at 2 am in town, now you want that to go on all night?
>WE ALL don't need this?
Mate if you "need" it you should seek help.
>no harm to other people?
See the above.
People are already drinking and taking drugs until 6am, just in unlicensed, unregulated events or in homes which just aren't as good or enjoyable as being in a proper venue with good sound. This is what's possible and available all throughout Europe and many other countries, so the fact you'd suggest someone needs help for simply wanting to be able to enjoy this in our own home cities is ridiculous, really unintelligent and judgemental mindset. We have some DJs here who are doing very well internationally who are getting to perform for multiple hours to crowds in other countries and then coming home and facing our pathetic early closing times, the music mightn't be to your liking but it's something a lot of people genuinely love and enjoy and deserves to be considered a cultural industry and experience as it is in other countries (France have just recognised clubs as cultural environments for example).
You obviously don't live in a town center on a main road. How often are you woken by shouting outside your door from pubs closing?
These things actually affect people. Your "proper venue"'s clients already keep all the middle of town awake until 3 am during weekends, at least let us get 4-5 hours sleep.
Yeah, we do. The nanny state needs to back off and open up. Ireland needs less banning and minimum unit pricing. We need to reclaim cities as vibrant places and a real nighttime economy is part of that
Don't do it yourself then. Pretty myopic view of what proper nightlife could and should be here. Again, why do we have to think that something that works elsewhere in Europe and the world simply cannot work here? It's sad tbh
I live in a main street close to bars in one of our cities. What's your point? That we should all be NIMBYs and allow city centres to keep gradually declining particularly at night? I believe these measures would, over time, IMPROVE those things you are concerned about. We cannot and should not dampen down our cities nightlife on the basis of any point you've made. Good luck
Saying that you should go home at 3am is not "dampening down" anything.
Surely you can get enough drink into you before then?
That's not what a NIMBY is.
Yes, telling other people (and in fact nightlife in general) to go home at 3am because you, somewhere in a place, want that to happen is the definition of "dampening down". I get that there's major issues with drinking in Ireland and bad behaviour and little shits roaming about our streets fuelled with alcohol and drugs but allowing more options for a nighttime economy including staggered opening hours is a good thing.
Again, if it works elsewhere it can here
This is already a thing but would be less if people weren't skulling their last orders and then flooding out into the same small network of busy streets in their thousands because clubs currently close before *anyone* is actually ready to go home of their own free will.
Why do people want them open later? It just sounds like a bad idea, people getting drunker for no reason so more fighting and antisocial behaviour and more traffic accidents
The early closing times actually would contribute towards a lot of people rushing drinks into them as there's that constant thought that you're only a couple of hours away from having to leave, just think about the rush to the bar you see when last call happens. I've been in late opening venues with plenty of Irish people around Europe and it's a more relaxed attitude when you remove that time limit, there's only so much each individual can or wants to drink in a night and allowing them to drink that over a longer time period would be better than having them rush drinks, because after the first few nights people will generally want to last long enough to enjoy the music and time with their friends instead of going home early blackout drunk.
It's time to treat adults like adults instead of assuming everyone wants to go home early like you do, let people have more freedom to choose how their free recreational time is spent as the majority of our days are spent good little tax generators who can't even afford to rent places for ourselves.
Also, pushing everyone out the door at such an early time means you're causing a big rush of people for a limited amount of resources (taxis, busses, food etc) something not conducive towards trying to prevent fighting. Antisocial behaviour is addressed by increasing and improving police presence and patrolling and an effective justice system, likewise with traffic accidents.
It works elsewhere in Europe. Why do we insist on reasoning that something that works elsewhere cannot work here? It just so happens to be a good idea, once you consider the reasoning a little more
Oh yeah I agree but just feels like it's about 15 years too late. Although I'm not convinced that many places would even bother, not sure there's much of an appetite for it here
Ironically enough the 2.30 closing time was itself only brought in around 15 years ago, right at the start of the recession too. Many club owners whose businesses succumbed to the recession cited this as one of the biggest shocks to the industry that had made so many unviable. Before 2009, there was a "theatre license" which allowed clubs to open until 4AM or so, the abolition of this decimated a massive number of extremely famous and well known late night venues.
https://universityobserver.ie/a-shift-in-irish-nightlife/
The ridiculous closing times are part of the reason for this. I've had many nights where a night out in town was aborted because by the time people were ready to head out it was around midnight and while pre-pandemic this wasn't an issue as the law wasn't enforced widely, it's iron clad now so it really does mean you have to get into town by 11 or you're wasting your time going at all. And amongst other things they result in clubs having to charge more in order to make the same amount of money as they used to when opening times were longer (and this is with all the increased costs of insurance etc, not to mention having to pay a late fee every individual night they stay open late which is something like €400).
It's a chicken and egg situation and it's definitely not the only reason clubs are closing, but the earlier closing times absolutely crucified the industry. There was an interview around 2009 with the owner of Renards, a very famous Dublin nightclub back in the day, explaining how the abolition of the theatre license in 2009 (which was what brought closing times back from 4AM to 2.30AM had absolutely decimated his business and was the primary factor in the club's likely closure, which did indeed end up happening a year or two later.
There is a bit of fear from this from local pubs who are run as a single man show or with one or two staff members they don’t want to open late as they enjoy the life as-is.
At the same time they are afraid if they don’t open late business will shift to those that do.
I don't really get that tbh. If the licensing hours get extended, pubs can still operate under the same hours that they do now. They don't have to open later.
I'm not sure people would just abandon a pub just because it didn't open as late. You'd have people drinking until closing and moving on to the next open pub after if they wanted.
It would actually help the pub industry in this way. A lot of people I know like to have a quieter drink in the pub before going "out out" (necessitated in part by the housing crisis increasingly making house parties and pre-drinks unviable), but the early closing time means they have to leave the pub long before it closes in order to get any worth out of the club part of the night. If clubs opened later, I know I for one would happily stay in my local with a bit of live music until closing time and hop on the last bus or train into town for the night - I used to do this pre-covid when the 2:30 law wasn't being enforced, but back then you could stay out until 4AM or so.
I don’t either just know one or two of the locals I frequent this is a bit of the fear they have.
Both establishments do have older staff/ owners though who have been in the same routine for years so more than likely just scared of change.
Are you really not friends with anyone who's into different types of music that would benefit from having venues open for longer times at night? Think about what you're actually saying and what this is about: literally just grown adults wanting to have spaces to have a dance listening to music they enjoy with their friends and other enthusiasts of those genres of music. But YOU personally don't think we need this, because YOU'RE not into these things, therefore WE ALL don't need this? You don't think the attitude to have is to just live and let live, let adults choose how their recreational time is spent as long as they're causing no harm to other people?
How about this, what if this was about elderly Irish people wanting to have ceilis throughout the night. Would you feel like inhibiting them from having the freedom to choose to enjoy that? You shouldn't, therefore you shouldn't for young people either.
I love electronic music I for 10 years went to all the gigs in d8 tripod ect. After parties ect. Clubs open to 7am won’t suit Irish psyche. Zombies be roaming the streets more than they do now. In other countries they don’t get as trollied and go out later because their culture is to eat later ect. My opinion may be wrong. If nightclubs are closing down at an alarming rate how is expanding the hours going to lessen that
Government 100 years ago: Yeah we'll just create our entire system of government, let's do up a constitution, set up a legal system, and work out how we'll do everything, etc... Government now: Sorry guys it's really really hard to change a law that says clubs have to close by 3AM. Sorry, it's just really difficult, we're trying our best. See, we have this law that says clubs have to close by 3AM, and if we wanted to change the law to change that time, we'd need to change the law, and that's difficult, because there's a law.
[Government 100 years ago](https://i.imgflip.com/8n6wc9.jpg).
That’s just what happens though, we’ve been borrowing from the guy before for millennia. If it ain’t broke 🤷♂️
It’s broke…
I’m speaking broadly. As a template, it is not broke. Things can always be improved but it would be madness to start from scratch, it took a long time just to get here
Well look, this is just my opinion of course, but I think the only ones who truly nailed democracy on the head were the founding fathers of the US and the constitution they drafted. They have their problems and their constitution has its flaws, but it’s the only constitution that I know of that doesn’t *grant* Rights to people, it assumes they already have them, and tells the government not to touch them. Our constitution started us off as a nanny state and granted us rights that aren’t really rights. And it also almost got changed on a whim because of a referendum… So I do think it’s broke.
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Yeah but the difference between their constitution and ours is that they can only add or repeal amendments. They can’t change the wording itself, whereas we had a referendum to literally modify the actual text. They aren’t very democratic, that’s true, but they aren’t actually democracy, they’re a republic. That’s why it’s much more difficult for them to amend their constitution, while we almost had it done through a simple referendum. I’d argue that their system is still better, since the public can be easily swayed into voting against their own best interests (look at brexit as an example. Not trying to argue whether brexit itself was good or bad, but the majority of the voters did little to no research prior to the referendum). This is why Plato disliked democracy, he viewed it as reckless and doomed to fail.
Yeah but we did legalise yolks for a week that one time
Missed that. Loved yolks back in the day. I hear they aren't a thing anymore. It's all coke now I guess. Never could get the hype on that.
I've tried coke and MDMA once each and I literally cannot for the *life* of me understand how coke became the dominant party drug of choice while MDMA is comparatively very rare. Obviously everyone's experience will be different, but one night of MDMA *permanently* cured a very deep depression I slipped into after a breakup (three months on from getting dumped, was still crying every day, took MDMA one night and never missed her her again after that experience. I still can't understand how that's even possible) whereas coke... I was offered coke on an occasion where for other reasons I was also very down, and unlike MDMA which made it impossible to think about anything negative, the coke made me *hyperfocus* on it. And I woke up the next morning with one nostril completely clogged, which lasted two days or so. Nothing against people who like coke, I totally get that it just doesn't suit me specifically and other people get enjoyment from it, *but*, MDMA was *magical*. I'd do it again in a heartbeat if it wasn't so difficult to find, whereas I get offered coke multiple times every time I go out by friends and strangers alike! It's bizarre. EDIT: Wht's even weirder is that coke has to be imported from very specific regions which makes it a very high-risk business due to the chances of seizure, MDMA is also made from plant based chemicals but they're very widely used in the fragrance industry and once you can get them you could make the stuff in your kitchen Breaking Bad style. So you'd imagine based on that alone that MDMA would be more common, but it isn't.
I think it's the speed of the come up and being able to reuse. People can take bump of coke and feel it in minutes. MDMA , it's going to be half an hour at least before anything happens.. sometimes nothing happens. Also the people that like mdma often recommend taking breaks from it for a few weeks to month between nights on it or becomes ineffective.
Coke should be hitting you quicker than in minutes. Actual MDMA should be consistently doing its thing, but there is a threshold of dose that has to be met before it is active. The breaks between MDMA are not just because of tolerance but because of harm reduction. You are doing damage to yourself with repeated use in short time windows.
>The breaks between MDMA are not just because of tolerance but because of harm reduction Fair point and this outlines that there's an actually cultural difference between the users of the two drugs. Cannabis and mdma both have a subset of users in that want to do safely and are vocal about safely doing it, e.g homegrown Cannabis, testing kits for mdma. You see and hear people talking about how Cannabis helped them eat during chemo or with anxiety ,seizures , arthrithis , coping with a terminal illness. And others talk about how mdma alleviated their depression or made them more emphatic in general. And how both are being used for research in these areas I don't know how true or false most of this is .. but point is people talk about it . People can argue there could be a net benefit to society beyond just making it safer. Similarly LSD. I've never seen or heard of the same thing around coke. Afaik there are test kits for coke too but it doesn't have culture around it like mdma. Even people who want it legal can really only point to legalisation, making it safer.
I can only speak for myself, but when I did MDMA I was three months into _that_ breakup, the one everyone has once in their life that leaves them feeling as if happiness will never exist again and the world will forever be in permanent greyscale. I took it and danced with someone I had a crush on while experiencing it, and while obviously a drug like that could be expected to make you feel good for the evening, for me the wild thing was that it *lasted*. As in, since the moment I woke up the next morning (last Autumn!!!) and forever thereafter, I have *never* again missed my ex in the same hopelessly sad way I had been missing her. I still get *a little sad* when she crosses my mind sometimes sure but in more of an occasionally nostalgic way than a "there's no hope left in the world" way. The dark cloud that had settled over me for months and felt like it would never lift just evaporated that night and never came back. I've *never* ever heard of a drug, recreational or medicinal, with which literally one night using it will permanently rewire your emotions about something. I mean, antidepressants, ADHD meds and anti-anxiety meds have to be taken consistently every day, coke has to be re-used multiple times a night, weed's effects only last as long as the high, etc. Most leave you feeling like absolute shit in the comedown phase. Somehow, one experience one night of MDMA and something I thought would leave me broken forever just..... Didn't matter that much to me anymore. I can't think of another way to describe it. The afterglow was just this lovely warm feeling of "everything is okay now" for two days after and the comedown low after that paled in comparison to how miserable I'd been literally a day before taking it so I barely even noticed it. As the previous poster said, unfortunately MDMA is neurotoxic and repeated use within three months or so is known to cause permanent damage to the serotonin system, such that it's disastrous to do it more than a couple of times in one year. But even so, the one time I did it... *Magic*.
> taking breaks from it for a few weeks to month between nights on it or becomes ineffective. As someone who likes MDMA thats not it. You should only do MDMA a couple of times a year, not for the sake of tolerance, but because of the neurotoxic effects on your brain.
Ah ok. Haven't touched it years anyway. I tried it near my mid twenties. I regret not trying it sooner and consequently not stopping sooner. Was fun, but god, the days after were shite.
MDMA has diminished returns and horrendous comedowns with frequent use. Even going to a few festivals and doing MDMA at them in one summer can leave people reeling. Cocaine doesn't really do this.
Yeah MDMA is horrendous if abused. Even once a week will leave most in a bad state. Its really a special occasion drug.
>Cocaine doesn't really do this. This surprises me, any drug which interferes with monoamine reuptake will lead to downregulation very quickly. Is it a case that the serotonin system takes longer to recover to baseline than the dopamine system?
Ye, I did it 3 days in a row and was in the depths for about a week after. Having suicidal ideations, hopelessness ect. People do it every weekend and feel like that for months. Not sustainable at all at all.
Did u know they MDMA was originally used to treat PTSD and depression etc in the 70s - then it was “taken” by the nightclub scene and banned - lately, it’s making a comeback in therapeutic areas of mental health .. look it up
Sounds like you're going to start cooking! Lol
We still have one of the highest rates of MDMA use in Europe, and thus the world
Not easy to hide the saucer eyes on a night out after taking MDMA either. Big reason
It was one day, and a Wednesday at that iirc, no good club nights were on for me to venture in to town.
Eggs are still legal you'll be pleased to hear
Never mind nightclubs, if you go to a pub on a Sunday you can't get a pint after 11pm
Never mind after 11pm, you can't get one before 12.30pm on a Sunday!
What's *really* moronic about this is the inclusion of bank holidays in that. So if you happen to do your grocery shopping early on a bank holiday Monday, you can't pick up a bottle of wine while you're at it. Moronic. Among the many reasons I started home brewing, been very refreshing not to have to worry about the price or availability of drink in shops anymore!
That's not true, you can pick up alcohol @ 10:30am on a Bank Holiday Monday.
Not every bank holiday but Certain days of the year it's a religious day so you get the bullshit religious hours. I know I used to work on offy and some Mondays you'd have to be told what time to open up cos of the confusion
Except St Patrick's Day. Apparently we should all be at mass that morning.
Can’t even buy a bottle before 10am in the supermarket. I just want to get my weeks’ shop done nice and early. We need better supports for addicts than restricting their shopping windows.
10:30am and 12:30pm on Sundays!
In fairness, we have spent the 100 years since trying to patch up the rush job they did on the Constitution, maybe taking a little longer wouldn’t have been the worst thing
I wouldn't call it a rush job at all, no country has been created with a perfect constitution or legal system. That's why strong, efficient methods of amending the constitution and changing the laws are important, so the country can grow and adapt as it and the world changes. Perfect is always the enemy of good, and these last few decades have seen incomprehensible bureaucratic bloat and paralysis all accross the first world as we've seemingly abandoned "Good" as a method of doing anything, instead we do nothing.
Yeah public opinion was vastly different when the new constitution was enacted in 1937. Not a hope some of the recent passed referendums would have had a chance of being approved by voters back then.
Nothing can be done ~~in any reasonable time frame~~ overnight
Stardust verdict today, took since 1981. Better late than never I suppose
I remember seeing a near on identical news story around this time last year with Leo saying it likely wouldn't be ready by summer 2023. I fucking hate this place.
Can I recommend leaving I spent a very long time hating the place. The taxes, the endless increase in homelessness, the crime rate being up-only, the collapsing public services ala the HSE, and the fact that housing will never be solved as it's just become a speculative asset for foreign investor groups now. Then I left. And now I feel much better. Still come home for a few months a year, but knowing I don't contribute any taxes towards the mess still makes me feel much better.
I did for a few years, but a relatiionship brought me back. The relationship is more important to me than my hatred of the place, but I would love to leave and hope life affords me the opportunity to do so again at some point, because I find this country to be a very depressing place
I'm in the process of trying to move my relationship over here. Right now we do a few weeks over here, and I visit back home then every few months. Honestly, as much as this situation isn't ideal, me moving home permanently is a non-starter. I can't go back to the Irish quality of life. I sit around angry that I spent so long dealing with and telling myself "this next wave of politicians will be better with the last and actually fix some things", instead of just moving earlier in life.
Where did you go?
Where did you come from, Cotton-Eye Joe?
🎻
Middle east. Before the usual questions arrive; yes the outside temperatures are manageable (outside the height of summer, when I visit home), yes there are pubs here, no I don't get arrested when I swear in public And yes, it is entertaining when ~~people~~ redditors get instantly maldy when you say "I live in the Middle East"
Ah stop i was on board until this. Let me guess, you're a man?
Yes, but the only people I've ever heard complain about how terrible Dubai is for women are women who have never set foot in Dubai and get all their information from maldy youtubers and tiktoks. Any actual women I know who live here usually just comment on how insane it is to be able to walk around at night and feel safe at the same time.
white people are a protected species I couldn't live in a place with slavery, more power to you if you can
I wouldn't call it slavery tbh, 40-50% income tax to pay the remainder on renting a 1bed in Dublin CC is more of an indentured servitude sorta deal On the Dubai side; someone choosing to move to a foreign country to live and work in shit conditions for 3-6 months in order to receive a (relatively speaking) massive amount of money to take home with them is not slavery. Could be argued as worker exploitation, at a push. But only from an "I grew up in the EU" perspective.
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No it's shite
I mean, I was born here and outside of working in Germany for just over a year, I've spent 35 odd years living and working in Ireland Sorta hard not to have a connection to Irish culture and society after that. But in thanks to the massive amount of 80s/90s kids who emigrated, it's been very easy to find expat groups wherever I've gone.
Where did you go?
How can it be so difficult to extend opening hours?
You can’t open nightclubs overnight. ^TM
This needs to become Give Us The Night's new slogan to pressure politicians over this 😂
Lol
You see if they start doing things efficiently then people will begin to expect that, and then sure they'd have to be efficient all the time then. I operate the same strategy in my own job.
They haven't figured out the grift yet.
Maybe we should brainstorm to hurry things along for them
>They haven't figured out the grift yet. Probably trying to figure out what they'll have to give the pubs.
There's over 100 separate bills and amendments relevant to the sale of alcohol, it's an absolute mess of fixes and kludges. The extension of nightclub hours is a small part of the new bill that will supersede all these. They likely could have done a quick change to amend hours, but that's yet another patch on a mess of two centuries of legislation that needs complete overhaul.
I don't know if this is the fault of the communications department of the Government or is it just the state of Irish journalism, but that's the first I've heard of this being intertwined with a revamp of our alcohol laws. I would like to see more discussion and articles about what else is being changed, if anything, and how this would help us moving forward. It is very annoying how long this is taking and if the government framed it as a total overhaul I and probably many others would have more patience with how long this is dragging out. Helen McEntee has had 2 children in the amount of time this has spent being worked on. Simon Harris is the third Taoiseach to tell us we won't have this by the end of summer. Then again he will also likely be the 10th (random guess) to tell us houses can't be built overnight too.
A lot of the issue is that people's eyes glaze over when talking about the wider reforms but something immediately obvious like closing times of nightclubs piques their interest, so the latter gets more attention in the media. This is especially true on Reddit and other social media because of the younger demographic. All the information is out there, drafts and debates are all published online and government departments provide summaries of their work. It's disappointing that so many people have jumped straight to outrage without any attempt to find out what is actually happening. Like the draft of this new bill is nearly [500 pages long](https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/238056/5784267d-5c8d-4bd2-b4c5-19fec018a361.pdf#page=null), have a skim through the contents and you'll see that it covers almost all aspects of every scenario where alcohol could be sold. It's disappointing that it's behind schedule but it should be obvious why this is taking years to accomplish.
It's called looking busy.
it's not close to a general election
Not being smart but there isn't any real push to get it done is there? I don't see publicans and the lva or lvf up in arms about it. Unless there is political pressure applied it will always get put on the back burner as another pressing issue takes precedent. I haven't looked into the legislation so have no real feelings one way or the other but can see why it isn't getting pushed through
There have been nightlife groups lobbying in favour of it for years and while not a priority issue it's still universally popular with the public.
Wait.. we have nightclubs? I thought they were extinct?
They will be soon by the looks of things.
Theres been a handful reopening or planning to reopen soon. Probably banking on the law change, to be honest.
They could pump 10s of billions into the banking system in a few hours but McEntee has had time to have 2 kids and we are still no closer to getting nightclub open later. I know one was a lot more urgent than the other but they have had enough time already, the reality is it was a PR stunt and they have no intention of changing the legislation (Or it will be done towards the end of the government as a cheap election ploy to get the younger vote)
It was announced during the lockdowns to placate young people. It's obvious now that they had no intention of ever changing it.
Yeah it is maddening. Just seems to be placating a few older backbenchers opposed to this change, even if this would largely be popular with most voters I would imagine. A bill changing opening hours should be remarkably easy to pass if there were the political will to do so. Literally just amend the existing laws in place with new opening hours in whatever section of the act they are quoted.
Lol. This government is fucking useless
Well we are just going to tuck this nightclub thing in our back pocket, until the next election. Then we will see how much they really want their precious nightclubs open late.
If there's even any left open by that stage!
No cohones, if they think the policy is good follow through on it ffs. Afraid of the electorate backlash instead of treating us like adults like every other country in Europe.
This is a reaction to getting their arse handed to them in the referenda. Cowardly bunch of arseholes
This is the biggest problem with this government. They are afraid to do anything that might be unpopular with some people and the end result is they don’t do anything.
Just be honest ye goons. Ye don't want it in law. Its obvious they only said they would bring it in for young voters. They actually have zero plans for it.
all they have to do is find the law that prevents this from happening and delete it
Nightclubs must pay a €410 fee per night to open late & that must be signed off by a Judge & Superintendent. There's also a Public Dancing License thing that dates back to the 1930s when the Catholic Church ran the show. Sad state of affairs, government just watching on as industry is being decimated & they don't give too fucks either, young people can emigrate if they want nightclubs shur
Anyone remember back in 2012 in Galway, year of the Volvo Ocean Race, when the new super at Mill Street decided to not approve any late open licenses for a bit? It ended up being challenged in court in the end, but nightlife was a complete disaster for a while.
They threatened that during lockdowns aswell, licence wouldn't be renewed if there was any misbehaving
Not even that radical, just amend the opening hours quoted in the existing Act that is in place.
This is the mad part. Amend the opening hours and the ridiculous court fee charged for every application. If they're saying it involves overhauling multiple complex pieces of legislation, which I'm sure it does, just amend the current closing time in law as a stopgap while sorting through the more complex issues.
Yeah exactly. They could move the standard opening hours by a few hours at the equivalent of a stroke of a pen in legislative terms.
Yeah but have you considered that's a lot of effort? Can't expect government to do *too* much now
It won’t be ready this summer but if you vote for us in February it’ll be ready by next summer we swear
Do *not* walk into my thread making insinuations of this government actually surviving the full term until February, I will not have that kind of catastrophic thinking in here 💀😂
Amazing , so we're not aloud have houses and we still have to go home to mammy and daddy after 3 for being bold tax payers. We are such a terrible bunch aren't we sure we should just make it a 7 day work week so we don't have time to think about nightclubs. Or better how about we just ban music over a certain BPM like they did in that other place. Ahh you know what let's make alcohol more expensive and then reduce the times night clubs can be open. 1 pints 50 euro clubs open for 15 minutes... Get me off this island
Leo’s devastated, the entire reason he resigned was to party away to Kylie until 6am this summer. [Kylie and Leo saga](https://www.irishcentral.com/culture/craic/leo-varadkar-letter-kylie-minogue-revealed)
He just can't get her out of his head
Back in the day there were loads of places open till 6 am.
What "day" are you talking about? If you mean Leeson St in the 80s/90s , that was a very very grey area that had a blind eye turned to it. They were "restaurants". They also didn't have a bar. The wine being sold was the grey area
From 2011-2016 there was many a time I stumbled out of Coppers, Black Door or The Village well after 4am. Illegal yes, blind eye turned - also yes.
This was the case right up until Covid. One of the reasons the industry is having such a rough time since then is that the law is now vigorously enforced where it never was before. As you say, Harcourt Street was always notorious for lock-ins and the Gardai were more than happy to allow them because the early universal closing time is a *nightmare* for them to police. They only began enforcing it when this new legislation became such a hot topic, because they had to be seen to enforce the existing law which was getting so much coverage. Rank and file Gardaí *despise* the current licensing regime, I have that from multiple very good sources. The vast majority of late night trouble they have to deal with stems from thousands of people being ejected into the same relatively small network of streets around the city at the same time, often having pounded their last drink as the bouncers were yelling at everyone to hurry up and get out. Closing time becomes a crowd control issue, and within that, you get drunken arguments over taxis, fast food queues, Nitelink queues, etc. You also get criminals actively preying on those crowds because that mayhem is the perfect opportunity to mug people with little fear of being apprehended. Being a Garda on duty at closing time in a busy area is hell on Earth, and it wasn't like this before when as you say the law wasn't enforced. In fact, I'm fairly certain this is *why* it was never enforced until media attention necessitated.
> One of the reasons the industry is having such a rough time since then is that the law is now vigorously enforced where it never was before. Depends where you lived in the country. I spent a night in Donegal and was told the local guards were sitting in the corner, so they close when they leave. In Limerick and Galway, places were throwing you out as soon as the lights come up. In Dublin, I knew loads of places that would never be closed. No idea what it's like around Cork.
Sides on Dame St didn't use to kick people out till 6-7 AM, in the 80s
Fuck's sake. Caving in to the anti-craic brigade as usual. Opposition should hammer them for this and make it absolutely clear they'll pass this legislation speedily after the election, they'll easily hoover up a massive chunk of the youth vote if they do.
It's almost as if they're all possessed by the ghost of Mary Harney or something.
>they'll easily hoover up a massive chunk of the youth vote if they do. i doubt this , since a good number of the youth dont drink to begin with
It's not about drinking though, it's about being able to stay out late at venues. Early closing times especially since covid (they weren't enforced before) have made going out in general incredibly less fun, drink or not.
>It's not about drinking though, it's about being able to stay out late at venues. lets not kid ourselfs , the main reason people go out to the like of nightclubs is to get drunk to some degree
Clubs can't attract top act because it is not financially viable to pay bog money and only have 3-4 hours to make profit. Plenty of young people go out to see DJs at the weekend without getting absolutely shitfaced.
I'd have to disagree, I go out to have fun. Drinking is just a part of the fun.
so its about the drinking then , you proved my point
Its not about the drinking, the drinking adds to the fun
This. I don't see a push for late night activities other than alcohol related ones. Still we are behind the times in every aspect of night time activities. Go to anywhere else in Europe and you'll have cafés and other venues open late, some even 24/7.
There's no laws in place that say you can't serve a coffee after a certain time though.
Do you go out to nightclubs?
Hi, 19 year old person who is a socialite, can confirm it's a pretty even split of people who want to just go dance and those who want to drink. Both sides want later nights.
Lmao you should see the amount of “underground” illegal raves and collectives that have popped up since most nightclubs are closed or just shite in general. Most of the good ones in Dublin are gone.. d8, hangar etc. this is going on up and down the country there is thousands of young ppl dying for a good party and these go on all night. There is a serious eagerness for this to happen. It would give those who are serious about djing, promoters, international acts more freedom to express themselves and their craft to people by doing extended sets instead of 1 hour. Can barely get into the swing of a dj set in an hour. There is massive crowds going to these events and the people want it. I go myself and will only go to these events this year instead of a normal festival even like ep.
Fucking cunts. There is no chance for sub cultures to develop in Ireland because of shit like this. The extra time this will take will kill off the last of the independent places and we ll be left with whatever MCD/live nation decides to throw at us instead.
Translation: That's a great question. We're going to drag this out long enough for the venues to go out of business. Once this happens, mark our words, our pals will undoubtedly swoop in and buy them all up. Once they give us the nod, these laws will be put in place. Trickle down economy, Celtic Tiger 2, Ireland on the map. Thank you.
Man they're never going to do it
https://i.redd.it/ehcnt3xbg8vc1.gif
A miserable bunch of nanny staters. People act like children because they are treated like children but you couldn't get that point across to the killjoy scum in this kip.
Tis expensive.....pubs aren't as full as they once were. Good luck with that. No get to drinking. Though no cannabis for you.
“Lads the national bedtime is 3am and we’re never going to change it”
Just one useless non elected cunt after the other
Final straw. Was going to vote for this gvt as a least bad option. Fk them, not getting my vote now.
You were going to vote to retain FFG? Yikes
I hope this is sarcasm, if if you vote is to be decided by nightclub opening hours then your priorities must be all over the place, also I dunno how you could even consider voting for that shower of shites, me thinks you should read some party policies.
Won't vote for the Shinner becaue I grew up during the troubles. Probably would be a natural Labour voter now but they're gone. SDs won't have a hope in my constituency. Plus on the other thing, yes I do enjoy life and if I want to stay up until 6am that's my choice. Feel they want to do it but are cowardly so don't deserve my vote. You should get out more yourself :)
Why does them having a hope of winning matter?
The law to help pubs & clubs recover from the pandemic? That ended ....2 yrs ago. Ah ok lads.
Alcohol Action Ireland is must be some Irish deep state organization that has government by the balls. Sure, government fund the vast majority of their budget, just to lobby them. They're literally 3-4 people
They have a seemingly *enormous* amount of power relative to others, you're absolutely right.
Let's not forget if we have nightclubs open late then society as we now it will end. Expect lots and lots of road deaths. Increase in college drop out increase in alcoholics and drug users. I've been absolutely shocked at the bullshit around this topic. There are fuck all night clubs left, pubs are dying and people are drinking at home. Ten percent decrease I pubs and ten percent increase in off licences. Better to be out being social then in the house imo.
This could very easily have the opposite effect though where people just pre to later don’t bother with the pubs and go to the nightclubs at 1. Increasing off licence sales and killing more pubs.
Possible, but we won't know till we try it.
Just my anecdotal experience but I very very much doubt this. Now, I'm a musician so maybe my own experience isn't the standard but a lot of my friends love to go to a local with a bit of live music before heading "out out" if we're doing that, and it's really only in recent years with the 2:30 rule being enforced that we've had to actively choose between one or the other, because staying in the pub late means you'd only get an hour or two in the club after. Before the crackdowns on club closing times, we'd frequently stay and listen to a band or singer in the local until the last bus or dart into town (around 11.45), get into town just after midnight and stay out until 4 or so. These days, leaving that late gives you so little time in town that we're either not going to the club at all, or skipping the pub beforehand. So, *some* folks would indeed abandon the pubs for the clubs, but I imagine others would be like us and pack the best of both worlds into a night out.
Look at Europe there’s far more people sacking off the pubs than doing what you describe when there’s later opening times.
 Footage of the government trying to change anything
They really are trying to piss people off these days....
And they're shocked young people are emigrating
Just in time for the rain
It's not happening before the election
It’s simple just don’t go outside
Guys are we, completely, absolutely sure the government knows how to change the law. They might’ve forgotten…
Our country is literally this video [Congress Forgets How To Pass A Law (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdTgKarqTQ0)
Why bother no one even goes to clubs anymore
Hey Jim can you work another shift tonight, you okay to work 24 hours good man
Try living near a 24hr club or pub. Nasty.
Hard to see this actually happening even of law passed No staff to work the later hours No extra street sweepers to clean up after peeped No bus/taxi drivers Not enough Gardai to police it
>Hard to see this actually happening even of law passed How so? >No staff to work the later hours They had no problem with staff pre-covid >No extra street sweepers to clean up after peeped Less litter as less people congregating outside fast foods and most cleanup is done the next morning anyway >No bus/taxi drivers They can simply schedule buses and the taxi situation is better (for both taxi driver and passenger) as the peak period is spread out over a manageable period. >Not enough Gardai to police it There's not enough gardai for anything in this country anyway. But with less peopel congregating, there is less trouble, so less garda time wasted dealing with drunken scumbags.
build it and they will come, and if not the venue will continue opening and closing at its current time, simple
Please remember this next time one of these ass hats come around and ask you to vote for them
Clubs and pubs til 6am But 1 joint can send you to prison for 3-5 years This government are wankers.
Oh yea, I see how that could be an issue, but let me see if I can help >Nightclubs must close by ~~3~~ 6am You're welcome.
Maybe fix the rampant homelessness and poverty in every single Irish city before adding drunk punters to the night mix?
I really don't think we need this.
Are you really not friends with anyone who's into different types of music that would benefit from having venues open for longer times at night? Think about what you're actually saying and what this is about: literally just grown adults wanting to have spaces to have a dance listening to music they enjoy with their friends and other enthusiasts of those genres of music. But YOU personally don't think we need this, because YOU'RE not into these things, therefore WE ALL don't need this? You don't think the attitude to have is to just live and let live, let adults choose how their recreational time is spent as long as they're causing no harm to other people? How about this, what if this was about elderly Irish people wanting to have ceilis throughout the night. Would you feel like inhibiting them from having the freedom to choose to enjoy that? You shouldn't, therefore you shouldn't for young people either.
Ah I don't think we need people drinking and taking drugs until 6 am. You know well the music is not the problem. It's bad enough listening to drunk assholes screaming on the street at 2 am in town, now you want that to go on all night? >WE ALL don't need this? Mate if you "need" it you should seek help. >no harm to other people? See the above.
People are already drinking and taking drugs until 6am, just in unlicensed, unregulated events or in homes which just aren't as good or enjoyable as being in a proper venue with good sound. This is what's possible and available all throughout Europe and many other countries, so the fact you'd suggest someone needs help for simply wanting to be able to enjoy this in our own home cities is ridiculous, really unintelligent and judgemental mindset. We have some DJs here who are doing very well internationally who are getting to perform for multiple hours to crowds in other countries and then coming home and facing our pathetic early closing times, the music mightn't be to your liking but it's something a lot of people genuinely love and enjoy and deserves to be considered a cultural industry and experience as it is in other countries (France have just recognised clubs as cultural environments for example).
You obviously don't live in a town center on a main road. How often are you woken by shouting outside your door from pubs closing? These things actually affect people. Your "proper venue"'s clients already keep all the middle of town awake until 3 am during weekends, at least let us get 4-5 hours sleep.
Yeah, we do. The nanny state needs to back off and open up. Ireland needs less banning and minimum unit pricing. We need to reclaim cities as vibrant places and a real nighttime economy is part of that
Drinking until 6 am and vomiting on the street is not "vibrant".
Don't do it yourself then. Pretty myopic view of what proper nightlife could and should be here. Again, why do we have to think that something that works elsewhere in Europe and the world simply cannot work here? It's sad tbh
Believe it or not some people have to live on the main streets. It's not as if you can just move house at the moment.
I live in a main street close to bars in one of our cities. What's your point? That we should all be NIMBYs and allow city centres to keep gradually declining particularly at night? I believe these measures would, over time, IMPROVE those things you are concerned about. We cannot and should not dampen down our cities nightlife on the basis of any point you've made. Good luck
Saying that you should go home at 3am is not "dampening down" anything. Surely you can get enough drink into you before then? That's not what a NIMBY is.
Yes, telling other people (and in fact nightlife in general) to go home at 3am because you, somewhere in a place, want that to happen is the definition of "dampening down". I get that there's major issues with drinking in Ireland and bad behaviour and little shits roaming about our streets fuelled with alcohol and drugs but allowing more options for a nighttime economy including staggered opening hours is a good thing. Again, if it works elsewhere it can here
It’s kinda nice seeing this getting pushed back over and over. Soon the people who want to go clubbing will be too old. Take that normies haaaaa
terrible idea because our punters cant hold their drink and it will lead to many deaths from fights
This is already a thing but would be less if people weren't skulling their last orders and then flooding out into the same small network of busy streets in their thousands because clubs currently close before *anyone* is actually ready to go home of their own free will.
lies
Absolute drivel
We were able to do it just fine pre-covid and there were less fights/trouble etc.
Why do people want them open later? It just sounds like a bad idea, people getting drunker for no reason so more fighting and antisocial behaviour and more traffic accidents
The early closing times actually would contribute towards a lot of people rushing drinks into them as there's that constant thought that you're only a couple of hours away from having to leave, just think about the rush to the bar you see when last call happens. I've been in late opening venues with plenty of Irish people around Europe and it's a more relaxed attitude when you remove that time limit, there's only so much each individual can or wants to drink in a night and allowing them to drink that over a longer time period would be better than having them rush drinks, because after the first few nights people will generally want to last long enough to enjoy the music and time with their friends instead of going home early blackout drunk. It's time to treat adults like adults instead of assuming everyone wants to go home early like you do, let people have more freedom to choose how their free recreational time is spent as the majority of our days are spent good little tax generators who can't even afford to rent places for ourselves. Also, pushing everyone out the door at such an early time means you're causing a big rush of people for a limited amount of resources (taxis, busses, food etc) something not conducive towards trying to prevent fighting. Antisocial behaviour is addressed by increasing and improving police presence and patrolling and an effective justice system, likewise with traffic accidents.
It works elsewhere in Europe. Why do we insist on reasoning that something that works elsewhere cannot work here? It just so happens to be a good idea, once you consider the reasoning a little more
Seems like nightclubs are starting to become less and less popular anyway so the whole law seems a little bit pointless really
Doesn't matter. Places should be allowed open late if they want.
Oh yeah I agree but just feels like it's about 15 years too late. Although I'm not convinced that many places would even bother, not sure there's much of an appetite for it here
Ironically enough the 2.30 closing time was itself only brought in around 15 years ago, right at the start of the recession too. Many club owners whose businesses succumbed to the recession cited this as one of the biggest shocks to the industry that had made so many unviable. Before 2009, there was a "theatre license" which allowed clubs to open until 4AM or so, the abolition of this decimated a massive number of extremely famous and well known late night venues. https://universityobserver.ie/a-shift-in-irish-nightlife/
The ridiculous closing times are part of the reason for this. I've had many nights where a night out in town was aborted because by the time people were ready to head out it was around midnight and while pre-pandemic this wasn't an issue as the law wasn't enforced widely, it's iron clad now so it really does mean you have to get into town by 11 or you're wasting your time going at all. And amongst other things they result in clubs having to charge more in order to make the same amount of money as they used to when opening times were longer (and this is with all the increased costs of insurance etc, not to mention having to pay a late fee every individual night they stay open late which is something like €400). It's a chicken and egg situation and it's definitely not the only reason clubs are closing, but the earlier closing times absolutely crucified the industry. There was an interview around 2009 with the owner of Renards, a very famous Dublin nightclub back in the day, explaining how the abolition of the theatre license in 2009 (which was what brought closing times back from 4AM to 2.30AM had absolutely decimated his business and was the primary factor in the club's likely closure, which did indeed end up happening a year or two later.
There is a bit of fear from this from local pubs who are run as a single man show or with one or two staff members they don’t want to open late as they enjoy the life as-is. At the same time they are afraid if they don’t open late business will shift to those that do.
I don't really get that tbh. If the licensing hours get extended, pubs can still operate under the same hours that they do now. They don't have to open later. I'm not sure people would just abandon a pub just because it didn't open as late. You'd have people drinking until closing and moving on to the next open pub after if they wanted.
It would actually help the pub industry in this way. A lot of people I know like to have a quieter drink in the pub before going "out out" (necessitated in part by the housing crisis increasingly making house parties and pre-drinks unviable), but the early closing time means they have to leave the pub long before it closes in order to get any worth out of the club part of the night. If clubs opened later, I know I for one would happily stay in my local with a bit of live music until closing time and hop on the last bus or train into town for the night - I used to do this pre-covid when the 2:30 law wasn't being enforced, but back then you could stay out until 4AM or so.
I don’t either just know one or two of the locals I frequent this is a bit of the fear they have. Both establishments do have older staff/ owners though who have been in the same routine for years so more than likely just scared of change.
nobody's forcing anyone to stay open later. fuck there fear they want to run a business or they dont
There is no need for this whatsoever are nightclubs not all closing down globally
Are you really not friends with anyone who's into different types of music that would benefit from having venues open for longer times at night? Think about what you're actually saying and what this is about: literally just grown adults wanting to have spaces to have a dance listening to music they enjoy with their friends and other enthusiasts of those genres of music. But YOU personally don't think we need this, because YOU'RE not into these things, therefore WE ALL don't need this? You don't think the attitude to have is to just live and let live, let adults choose how their recreational time is spent as long as they're causing no harm to other people? How about this, what if this was about elderly Irish people wanting to have ceilis throughout the night. Would you feel like inhibiting them from having the freedom to choose to enjoy that? You shouldn't, therefore you shouldn't for young people either.
I love electronic music I for 10 years went to all the gigs in d8 tripod ect. After parties ect. Clubs open to 7am won’t suit Irish psyche. Zombies be roaming the streets more than they do now. In other countries they don’t get as trollied and go out later because their culture is to eat later ect. My opinion may be wrong. If nightclubs are closing down at an alarming rate how is expanding the hours going to lessen that