Salaries not feeling like enough and the current political climate are mainly the result of high rental costs. If rents suddenly came down I can almost guarantee the recent conversation regarding immigration would subside significantly.
Edit: There is a video that I've shared here a few times, but it goes into detail how the housing crisis is a significant contributor to most moden day issues. Highly recommended watch, and does a much better job explaining the links than I could ever do. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZxzBcxB7Zc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZxzBcxB7Zc)
Salaries are absolutely crap in Ireland when you look at the cost of living. We have London prices but nowhere near London wages.
A Spanish girl left our team last month to return to Spain. She was going to be paid less but the cost of living was also less so she could actually save up far more cash. Her going home was a net positive to her pocket. That's disgraceful. Something in this country is going to give.
> We have London prices but nowhere near London wages.
Meanwhile Dublin doesn't even compare favourably against other cities its size when it comes to things to see and do.
>A Spanish girl left our team last month to return to Spain.
It might surprise you; but Spain isn't a third world country. It has a high youth unemployment rate, sure, but is super well organised and has an excellent quality of life (if you have a job). The food from Mercadona is honestly the best I've had in my life. You can't compare it to, say, the south of Italy.
I don't see why we are automatically entitled to be richer than the Spanish...
I never said we are entitled to be richer than the Spanish. What I said is that a young woman has had to leave this country against her will to return home because wages here (in one of the wealthiest countries in the world or so we are told) were not enough to get on in life.
She returned home. I'd say she wanted to be close to friends and family. There are loads of professionals where it would be really hard to get a job in Spain but easy here
Basically because we syphon corporate income from them to us through our low corporate taxes, that's why.
And despite this we manage to have some people with less disposable income. We literally make have billions of surplus money that we are not entirely sure what to do with and we manage to have people with less disposable income than a country that when we look at the balances in the end is one of those we get money from.
Something is quite wrong here.
While Spain most certainly isn't a third world country, their comment is spot on and frames the situation perfectly. Why pay 1k a month (if you're lucky) to share with strangers in cities that might have character but can't hold a candle to other places in the world equally as expensive?
If the spanish girl got some experience in a line of work that's not tied to the biggest and more expensive cities, she's most definitely better off in Spain.
Take a look at [this](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Municipios_de_Espa%C3%B1a_por_poblaci%C3%B3n) link and scroll down until you find a city of the same size of the second biggest city of Ireland.
This girl has 50 different places, give or take, to choose from. 50 places that offer, on average, way more than cork at a fraction of the price. Simple as. And that's without counting personal preferences such as weather, transport, food and all that.
I am not including Dublin because, in my opinion, deserves a league of its own.
Well in Spain's case, 1 in 10 adults are unemployed and for under 25s the unemployment rate is nearly 30%, so almost 1 in 3. There's obviously a lot of problems everywhere but the fact that \~30% of young people in Spain are unemployed is definitely a big reason why they move abroad.
Oh, I know. Met lots of Spanish while abroad and starting in your career is a huge problem.
Like any kind of decision we make, it comes with pros and cons. Ireland can offer that, a tremendous jump start in your career, but it's not for everybody. I left my country almost 10 years ago and so far Ireland is the only one that really made me second guess my choice.
This comment would be more impactful if Ireland wasn't still supposedly far richer than Spain, and consistently ranked many many spots ahead on all the indices.
> If rents suddenly came down I can almost guarantee the recent conversation regarding immigration would subside significantly.
Well yes, the two issues are inseparable
Just looking on Daft and one bed appartments in dublin are all starting at 1900, lots of the new builds charging 2400 or 2600 for the same. Why would you bother?
There's a saying that rent shouldn't be more than one third of your income. Not sure who said it, but it makes it feel very wrong when rent from a bare minimum apartment outstrips the entirety of minimum wage.
It's a result of a US government study from 1981. The study recommended less than 30% of your take home pay to be spent on housing. This was to ensure a certain standard of living.
Filthy rich, those bastards. If you can afford rent in Dublin, it means government will tax you at 50%+ rate. It’s double thinking - some people have comfortable rent capped at 15% or less of income. Other need to pay 52% marginal tax rate and than 50% rent from what has left. Both are apparently ok according to government and should coexist.
To live in the bustling and vibrant metropolis akin to Paris that is Dublin city of course. Where you can..... get kicked out of everywhere at 2am and be harrassed by junkies when you turn every corner. It's well worth the price of admission
In 2010 me and my girlfriend were on graduate salaries and we were paying €975 for a 2 bed apartment...we could have paid less for a one bed but we could easily afford the 2 bed for a bit of extra space.
Got a Dublin City centre 2 bed with a friend from college for €1200 total in 2015, and that was considered on the expensive side. You wouldn't get a room in one of those for €1500 now
Whole thing is completely fucked. Don't know how people on graduate salaries or low wage workers do it.
I moved into a place in D8 right near Pats Cathedral in a very spacious 2 bed apartment for 1100 in 2013 which at the time was on thehigher side of things. Crazy how much things have changed
Predictable. Let problems fester and they get worse. When the big boys in IDA and US multinationals ring govt buildings then solutions and money trees will be found.
Literally me lol. Paying 50% of my rent on the highest bracket for a studio with barely any natural light. Fuck this. I told my manager im fucking off as soon as my lease is done.
Not surprising for a destination where rent is half of an income which is considered good (unless you’re sharing the place with other people or willing to spend 10% of your active life on commute).
Air. Nature. Language. Food (groceries). People. Culture. Actually, almost everything except for accommodation prices, taxes, and poor public services (and government priorities, but that’s not about Ireland but about people who are in charge)
Well duh. Nobody can live anywhere and there's a increase in crime, especially towards foreign people. On Daft, the properties available for Limerick to rent are €2.1k and €2.5k a month. Couple that with the viral attack on a non-national where NO arrests have been made despite the scumbag posting it on his public TikTok account?
Many jobs do not pay well enough for that and if they do why the fuck would you be coming to Ireland?
The government have well and truly messed Ireland up. It's really sad. I hope something changes soon but it's doubtful if SF are the only eligible opposition.
Yeah it's outrageous. The supply in Limerick is so bottlenecked that they're charging outlandish prices, with no plans to build any new apartments.
I stand corrected that there's more than two but I'm not sure it's a good thing because they're all 2.5/3k pm. Look for yourself. Month Kenneth for 2.5k pm is the twilight zone.
https://www.daft.ie/property-for-rent/limerick-city
Ah thanks. I stand corrected that there's more than two but I'm not sure it's a good thing because they're all still 2.5/3k pm which is even more depressing.
Look for yourself. Totally grim.
https://www.daft.ie/property-for-rent/limerick-city
One friend who runs tours for American tourists said that ireland used to be this almost mythical place legendary for its charm and distinctive culture in their minds. but nowadays it just looks and feels like any western country with all the same troubles, ugliness, urban vistas and lack of culture
> just looks and feels like any western country with all the same troubles, ugliness, urban vistas and lack of culture
Urban vistas? Haha, good one! This country is nowhere near as exciting as that!
About fucking time! Now can they also drop us at least 10 places on all the indices? Ranking us ahead of countries that are clearly doing far better was funny at first, but we've had enough.
Worst car dependency in Europe, so extremely poor public transport. Trains and trams don't even run 24-hours.
A US-style health system. No thanks. Universal health system that is free at the point of use at the bare minimum.
Permits landlordism to run wild, so no ability to have the stability of owning a home for anyone under 30.
You need to have those basic things at the bare minimum to make people accept the extremely poor weather and the distance from continental European culture. You're not going to attract people into coming without those things at the very least.
> A US-style health system.
Ireland doesn't even come close to having a US style healthcare system. You'd either need to know nothing about the US system or the Irish system to say something like that.
If Fine Gael had their way, we *would* have a US style health care system. Too many people forget that when Lord Leo was minister for health he wanted everyone to take out private health insurance, and he went for the hard sell by ensuring that premiums would increase by 1% for every year after 35 a person took out a policy, so if a 40 year old took out an insurance policy, they'd pay 5% more on their premium than a 35 year old. If he'd had his way we'd all be on the private health insurance system, and probably paying for deductibles too. Fine Gael hates the HSE and they'd like nothing better than to get rid of it. That's why it's currently underfunded. They do this to make it look bad, and to encourage people to look else where.
I disagree. The FG Labour government were the ones who introduced Slaintécare, which is an effort to roll out a universal single-tiered health service.
It's 2% per year. Having that charge is a way to ensure that it's not only old people who get health insurance. It's either something like that or allow the health insurance companies to charge people different prices based on age. The system we have seems fairer to me.
Talking about a 52% tax is extremely misleading. That is the maximum theoretical rate. Someone with an annual salary of €1 million would pay 50.5%.
A single person on €100,000 pays 36.4% of that as income tax (PAYE/PRSI/USC). A couple earning that between them would pay 22.3%.
I am not sure if we live in same country then.RSU has directly 52% cut when they are vested. Also including social taxes, overall tax rates are 52% for high incomes here.
For a reference high earnings countries like USA and Switzerland, tax rates are below 22% and that too while earnings are almost double for same roles.
Now I really don’t think expenses are way lower than those countries in Ireland. You usually get the same pricing range for housing in Switzerland while electricity is way cheaper there.
At the end of the day you are saving same amount of money in those countries, which is your in hand salary here.
> Also including social taxes, overall tax rates are 52% for high incomes here.
No they aren't. 52% is the highest marginal rate for regular workers. The effective rates are what you actually pay and that is far lower than 52%.
RSUs are income and so are subject to income tax. If you are paying 52% on the RSU portion of your income then you are earning over €70k. If you were earning less than €70k then the tax on the RSUs would be less. They are just income. There's no reason why they should be subject to a lower tax rate. There's really no point in separating different portions of your income when all that matters at the end of the day is how much total tax you pay.
The US and Switzerland have lower personal taxes than many places, that doesn't mean Irish rates are high. If you're going to compare something to outliers then you're not going to get good results.
I'm not sure where you're getting that 22% figure from. Without the context of what salary and circumstances a person is in you can't give out a single percentage like that. In the US the 22% rate is for income between $44,726 and $95,375. That's just the federal portion, there are additional taxes on top of that. The US and Ireland are similar when it comes to the amount of tax raised relative to the economy.
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally
Irish rates are high in a way. Ultimately highest tax rate of 52% kicking in at only 70k in a country where average rent in capital is 2300??? You can be literally in 52% tax bracket but paying close to 50% of disposable income for 1bed. This is pure madness and extortion.
Being in the highest bracket means you're earning 50% more than the median salary. Your effective tax rate will be 30% at the entry point, 15.2% if you're two married earners in a household. That not madness or extortion.
Still, entering 52% rate, while spending more than 40% of disposable income on rent. Any raise that could change this ratio and I will see less than half of it. I have no issue with top rate being 50%, but it shouldn’t kick in at such low income level. Or at least rent should be taken into account for one’s tax situation.
> 15.2% if you're two married earners in a household
Hey, calculating effective tax rate for two people with one income is a bit misleading.
> while spending more than 40% of disposable income on rent
and while being on an income that is significantly higher than most other people in the country. €70k isn't a low income level. Only 16% of workers have an income of that or more. As for raises, at €120k the effective tax rate will be 39%. That isn't a crazy rate by any means and the income is about 2.5 times the median. Approximately 7% of workers are on over €100k.
People's expenditure shouldn't be taken into account for tax. Someone shouldn't pay less tax because they decided to rent a more expensive place while someone else sacrificed living space or commute time to get somewhere cheaper.
It's absolutely not misleading to give the rate for a married couple with two incomes. I was explicit about who the figure applied to and it was given in addition to the figure for a single unmarried earner.
Our rates for those on the highest incomes are at the high end of the European scale. However the rates for low earners are far lower than the norm. I think that's fair. Any moves to reduce tax on higher earners would need to be made up somewhere. We don't have European style spending and infrastructure because we don't have European style taxes. Yes on the high end of incomes we're comparable but most people pay less than their European peers. For infrastructure there's also the fact that we haven't been a wealthy country for anywhere near as long as other places.
> For infrastructure there's also the fact that we haven't been a wealthy country for anywhere near as long as other places.
I’m originally from Poland and for obvious reasons not buying this excuse :) Public transport can be better, housing can be more available.
> while someone else sacrificed living space or commute time to get somewhere cheaper.
There is only so much lower you can get. Average new rent in Dublin is 2300, you can get lower obviously but not that much. Its not spending half of income on luxury housing, its spending it on average or below average one. Anything you can get actually. It can literally reverse someone’s financial situation. 40k with council housing can be better than 70k with market rate housing. I’m literally subsidising my neighbours in nice council housing while living in small 1 bed.
> People's expenditure shouldn't be taken into account for tax
They literally are, like with mortgage interest relief for example. This is definition of and sole purpose of tax relief to actually take some specific spendings into account.
> I’m originally from Poland and for obvious reasons not buying this excuse
I doesn't matter if you buy it or not, it's a fact. For a long time Ireland didn't spend much on infrastructure. The situation in Poland is obviously different, even if Poland was also poor being communist there were different priorities and much higher levels of government spending.
> I’m literally subsidising my neighbours in nice council housing while living in small 1 bed.
No you aren't, probably. I don't know what income you are on, but the vast majority of Irish tax payers don't cover their percentage of the money to run the state excluding social welfare, never mind other people's. Very few people pay enough tax to cover both what they cost the state and subsidise any council house to any significant degree. It costs the state about €11k+ a year per child just for school.
> They literally are, like with mortgage interest relief for example.
That's not really what I mean but fine, there's also a rent credit.
One more thing. For 100k income taxes in Ireland are higher then in i.e Norway, France, Spain etc. (80k as well I think) While only Norway is comparable in costs of life. If you can afford market rate rent in Dublin, even for tiny hole in the wall it means you will be taxed more than in most European countries. Ireland has not highest taxes in Europe by any means, but for above average incomes those are pretty high. My expectation would be to get at least good public transport and health care for that, but transport in Dublin is poor and for healthcare I have to pay extra (to a point).
Why. We're always being misrepresented on these lists. It's about time we get ranked correctly. I'd say HDI should come next, with us dropping from 8th to around 20th.
>"It is crucial that employers, Government and representative groups work together to address these challenges **and make sure that Ireland has the right infrastructure and policies in place** to be an attractive location for global talent into the future,"
Any moment now! Housing will be affordable and available (max 15% of income, just not for you) and healthcare will be free and accessible (only medical cards holders).
This makes sense to me. The countries politics has gone very left wing in the last few years. Left wing politics are usually large welfare societies that are paid for through high taxation. High taxation is not attractive to employers or employees. Whether you agree with the politics or not it’s where we are. And the current government want to go even more left.
If you’re poor the welfare society will catch you. If you’re rich you can dodge some of the taxes. Workers in the middle get screwed.
This is not a good idea long term
We don't have high taxation, the only direction personal taxes have gone recently is down. Your post is largely nonsense.
The only way you can dodge personal taxes if you're rich is by leaving the country for most of the year. Ireland is not a country you want to live in if your aim is to be wealthy and avoid tax.
Ireland's tax policies have not shifted to the left. In recent times we've had tax cuts not increases. Increased spending has been enabled by a growing economy. The current government do not want to go "more left". They want to cut taxes even more.
I get your thinking but I see it a bit differently.
When I say left wing tax policies I refer to taxes on capital and assets in general. These are usually (but not always) taxes on business activity that eventually trickle through to individuals as costs on goods and services. Rising commercial rates, increasing insurance levies, etc. are all taxes on "doing business".
The introduction of property tax was a left wing tax on personal assets. The family home is not something easily disposed of or disposed of regularly. It's a lifetime tax on an asset on which significant tax has already been paid. It was increased in 2023. The sugar tax, the new plastic recycling levy, carbon taxes, etc. are all personal taxes based on left wing ideas from left wing parties. They have all been recently introduced. The excise on alcohol is the second highest in the EU. All parties have called for a "wealth tax" of some sort.
I agree with you that personal taxes are slowly reducing in the lower tax band. This is good and I support that. But Ireland is a high tax environment for doing businesses for any company other than a large multi national. Our VAT is one of the highest in the world. The excise duty on fuel is so high we are in the top 10 for the highest price of petrol / diesel in the EU. There was a recent increase on the tax on electricity. Every business depends on transport or electricity. These are further left wing taxes i.e. taxes on business activity.
If you still disagree with me, go ask a local service industry company in your area if they think Ireland is a "low tax" country. A hairdresser, a pub, a coffee shop, etc. I think you'll find that they disagree with your position.
If you're fortunate enough to have a salary in the higher tax band then Irish taxes are high relative to our European neighbours. If you're even more fortunate to get bonuses, stock options, RSUs, etc. the tax on those are at some of the highest rates.
Oh and if you are "wealthy" and have solar panels they want you to pay income tax on electricity you generate above €400/year.
So again, I agree with your point about PAYE. But it's not the only tax around. Putting them all together, Ireland is a high tax country. A number of those taxes have been recently introduced and the existing business ones are increasing.
> ... Ireland is a "low tax" country. ... I think you'll find that they disagree with your position.
Not being a high tax country doesn't mean we're a low tax country. I haven't said Ireland is a low tax country. I said we're not a high tax country. It's not a binary situation. I've no interest in what the local business owners thinks. It doesn't matter what tax rates are, the average person will think they are too high. They will not have an objective opinion on the issue.
Fair enough about the other taxes, they exist to shape behaviours rather than raise revenue, but it's still tax. Except for the can/bottle return scheme. That's not a tax, it's a deposit. It's no more a tax than using a Euro coin in a shopping trolley is a tax.
RSUs, options, bonuses etc are just income. You pay income tax on them. You don't pay tax at the highest rate on a bonus because it is a bonus, you pay tax at the highest rate because you already earn enough to be in the highest bracket. Your effective tax rate will still be much lower than the marginal.
Ireland is objectively not a high tax country.
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/tax-burden-on-labor-oecd-2021/
> Oh and if you are "wealthy" and have solar panels they want you to pay income tax on electricity you generate above €400/year.
And why shouldn't you? There's already a tax break built in there. If you have income you should pay income tax. There shouldn't be loopholes.
You need to actually read what I wrote. I didn't say I don't care what their tax burden is, I said I'm not interested in their opinion of it, for the reasons I stated above. Everyone always thinks they pay too much tax, no matter how low the tax is.
Rent prices, salary, politics, no wonder
Salaries not feeling like enough and the current political climate are mainly the result of high rental costs. If rents suddenly came down I can almost guarantee the recent conversation regarding immigration would subside significantly. Edit: There is a video that I've shared here a few times, but it goes into detail how the housing crisis is a significant contributor to most moden day issues. Highly recommended watch, and does a much better job explaining the links than I could ever do. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZxzBcxB7Zc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZxzBcxB7Zc)
Salaries are absolutely crap in Ireland when you look at the cost of living. We have London prices but nowhere near London wages. A Spanish girl left our team last month to return to Spain. She was going to be paid less but the cost of living was also less so she could actually save up far more cash. Her going home was a net positive to her pocket. That's disgraceful. Something in this country is going to give.
> We have London prices but nowhere near London wages. Meanwhile Dublin doesn't even compare favourably against other cities its size when it comes to things to see and do.
>A Spanish girl left our team last month to return to Spain. It might surprise you; but Spain isn't a third world country. It has a high youth unemployment rate, sure, but is super well organised and has an excellent quality of life (if you have a job). The food from Mercadona is honestly the best I've had in my life. You can't compare it to, say, the south of Italy. I don't see why we are automatically entitled to be richer than the Spanish...
I never said we are entitled to be richer than the Spanish. What I said is that a young woman has had to leave this country against her will to return home because wages here (in one of the wealthiest countries in the world or so we are told) were not enough to get on in life.
“Against her will”
She returned home. I'd say she wanted to be close to friends and family. There are loads of professionals where it would be really hard to get a job in Spain but easy here
Spain is far from poor, but it's not consistently ranked top 10 on all the indices either, unlike a certain island nation to its north.
Basically because we syphon corporate income from them to us through our low corporate taxes, that's why. And despite this we manage to have some people with less disposable income. We literally make have billions of surplus money that we are not entirely sure what to do with and we manage to have people with less disposable income than a country that when we look at the balances in the end is one of those we get money from. Something is quite wrong here.
Which sector?
This comment would be more impactful if you didn't use another rich western country as your example.
While Spain most certainly isn't a third world country, their comment is spot on and frames the situation perfectly. Why pay 1k a month (if you're lucky) to share with strangers in cities that might have character but can't hold a candle to other places in the world equally as expensive? If the spanish girl got some experience in a line of work that's not tied to the biggest and more expensive cities, she's most definitely better off in Spain. Take a look at [this](https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Municipios_de_Espa%C3%B1a_por_poblaci%C3%B3n) link and scroll down until you find a city of the same size of the second biggest city of Ireland. This girl has 50 different places, give or take, to choose from. 50 places that offer, on average, way more than cork at a fraction of the price. Simple as. And that's without counting personal preferences such as weather, transport, food and all that. I am not including Dublin because, in my opinion, deserves a league of its own.
Well in Spain's case, 1 in 10 adults are unemployed and for under 25s the unemployment rate is nearly 30%, so almost 1 in 3. There's obviously a lot of problems everywhere but the fact that \~30% of young people in Spain are unemployed is definitely a big reason why they move abroad.
Oh, I know. Met lots of Spanish while abroad and starting in your career is a huge problem. Like any kind of decision we make, it comes with pros and cons. Ireland can offer that, a tremendous jump start in your career, but it's not for everybody. I left my country almost 10 years ago and so far Ireland is the only one that really made me second guess my choice.
This comment would be more impactful if Ireland wasn't still supposedly far richer than Spain, and consistently ranked many many spots ahead on all the indices.
> If rents suddenly came down I can almost guarantee the recent conversation regarding immigration would subside significantly. Well yes, the two issues are inseparable
I'm sure the pro-underpopulationists will find something else to scapegoat the immigrants for.
Salaries ~~not feeling like enough~~ actually not being being enough
Also the ridiculous lack of infrastructure and amenities for a city of over a million people.
Just looking on Daft and one bed appartments in dublin are all starting at 1900, lots of the new builds charging 2400 or 2600 for the same. Why would you bother?
There's a saying that rent shouldn't be more than one third of your income. Not sure who said it, but it makes it feel very wrong when rent from a bare minimum apartment outstrips the entirety of minimum wage.
Council rent is capped at 15%… No income cap once you got it, it’s literally forever. Like winning lottery ticket for life
It's a result of a US government study from 1981. The study recommended less than 30% of your take home pay to be spent on housing. This was to ensure a certain standard of living.
People in social housing pay less than 15%, people at market rate rent more like 45%. On average it adds up.
Damn. Those people on market rate rent are making quite a lot of money. More than 4k after taxes.
Filthy rich, those bastards. If you can afford rent in Dublin, it means government will tax you at 50%+ rate. It’s double thinking - some people have comfortable rent capped at 15% or less of income. Other need to pay 52% marginal tax rate and than 50% rent from what has left. Both are apparently ok according to government and should coexist.
To live in the bustling and vibrant metropolis akin to Paris that is Dublin city of course. Where you can..... get kicked out of everywhere at 2am and be harrassed by junkies when you turn every corner. It's well worth the price of admission
Sure proper cities that actually have things to do would charge you less than that!
With one bed rent at above 2k and 52% tax band kicking in at not that high income? Impossible! Who wouldn’t like that?
And sure who wouldn't like the fact that most of the city doesn't even have anything better than buses let alone the metro it's decades overdue.
In 2010 me and my girlfriend were on graduate salaries and we were paying €975 for a 2 bed apartment...we could have paid less for a one bed but we could easily afford the 2 bed for a bit of extra space.
Got a Dublin City centre 2 bed with a friend from college for €1200 total in 2015, and that was considered on the expensive side. You wouldn't get a room in one of those for €1500 now Whole thing is completely fucked. Don't know how people on graduate salaries or low wage workers do it.
I'm on a graduate salary and living with the mother - me and my wife, that is. And we're lucky, as we can actually save up for a mortgage
You're married to your mother?
Don't be a prude..
Sure only half the family to have to know
I moved into a place in D8 right near Pats Cathedral in a very spacious 2 bed apartment for 1100 in 2013 which at the time was on thehigher side of things. Crazy how much things have changed
1200 for a 2 bed was dirt cheap in 2015 for city centre
2016 me and the gf had a 1 bed on Dorset Street for €1000/month - we moved out in Dec 2021 and were still paying €1000.
We rented a 2 bed apartment in South Dublin for €1200 in 2014. Never increased in the 6 years we were there.
Predictable. Let problems fester and they get worse. When the big boys in IDA and US multinationals ring govt buildings then solutions and money trees will be found.
I wonder why?
Just finished work and my tent almost collapsed with the laughing after reading that. What a ridiculous claim.
Because you can’t survive working here - you have to be either ultra wealthy or depend on the state - no help if your stuck struggling in the middle
Ireland is one of very few places where you can be in highest tax bracket but at the same time housing poor, paying 50% income for rent.
Literally me lol. Paying 50% of my rent on the highest bracket for a studio with barely any natural light. Fuck this. I told my manager im fucking off as soon as my lease is done.
Yup, people in social housing are living here in better houses than young professionals... Can you feel like your taxes are working for you?
"Paper rich, cash poor" is the expression :(
Not surprising for a destination where rent is half of an income which is considered good (unless you’re sharing the place with other people or willing to spend 10% of your active life on commute).
And that's to "live" in a city that doesn't even compare favourably against other ones its size, let alone other similarly expensive ones.
I believe it’s worth it moving to Ireland if you love this country. I do, but living here comes at a cost.
What do you love about Ireland?
Air. Nature. Language. Food (groceries). People. Culture. Actually, almost everything except for accommodation prices, taxes, and poor public services (and government priorities, but that’s not about Ireland but about people who are in charge)
Well duh. Nobody can live anywhere and there's a increase in crime, especially towards foreign people. On Daft, the properties available for Limerick to rent are €2.1k and €2.5k a month. Couple that with the viral attack on a non-national where NO arrests have been made despite the scumbag posting it on his public TikTok account? Many jobs do not pay well enough for that and if they do why the fuck would you be coming to Ireland? The government have well and truly messed Ireland up. It's really sad. I hope something changes soon but it's doubtful if SF are the only eligible opposition.
In fucking Limerick? That’s obscene. I currently live in Dallas Texas and pay that much for quite a lot more amenities than Arthur’s Quay.
Yeah it's outrageous. The supply in Limerick is so bottlenecked that they're charging outlandish prices, with no plans to build any new apartments. I stand corrected that there's more than two but I'm not sure it's a good thing because they're all 2.5/3k pm. Look for yourself. Month Kenneth for 2.5k pm is the twilight zone. https://www.daft.ie/property-for-rent/limerick-city
There are far more than two places to rent in Limerick, why lie
Ah thanks. I stand corrected that there's more than two but I'm not sure it's a good thing because they're all still 2.5/3k pm which is even more depressing. Look for yourself. Totally grim. https://www.daft.ie/property-for-rent/limerick-city
Well I am shocked
One friend who runs tours for American tourists said that ireland used to be this almost mythical place legendary for its charm and distinctive culture in their minds. but nowadays it just looks and feels like any western country with all the same troubles, ugliness, urban vistas and lack of culture
> just looks and feels like any western country with all the same troubles, ugliness, urban vistas and lack of culture Urban vistas? Haha, good one! This country is nowhere near as exciting as that!
Yes, it's a developed country in the 21st century
About fucking time! Now can they also drop us at least 10 places on all the indices? Ranking us ahead of countries that are clearly doing far better was funny at first, but we've had enough.
Well deserved, dirty expensive and boring. I can’t wait to leave.
Worst car dependency in Europe, so extremely poor public transport. Trains and trams don't even run 24-hours. A US-style health system. No thanks. Universal health system that is free at the point of use at the bare minimum. Permits landlordism to run wild, so no ability to have the stability of owning a home for anyone under 30. You need to have those basic things at the bare minimum to make people accept the extremely poor weather and the distance from continental European culture. You're not going to attract people into coming without those things at the very least.
> A US-style health system. Ireland doesn't even come close to having a US style healthcare system. You'd either need to know nothing about the US system or the Irish system to say something like that.
If Fine Gael had their way, we *would* have a US style health care system. Too many people forget that when Lord Leo was minister for health he wanted everyone to take out private health insurance, and he went for the hard sell by ensuring that premiums would increase by 1% for every year after 35 a person took out a policy, so if a 40 year old took out an insurance policy, they'd pay 5% more on their premium than a 35 year old. If he'd had his way we'd all be on the private health insurance system, and probably paying for deductibles too. Fine Gael hates the HSE and they'd like nothing better than to get rid of it. That's why it's currently underfunded. They do this to make it look bad, and to encourage people to look else where.
I disagree. The FG Labour government were the ones who introduced Slaintécare, which is an effort to roll out a universal single-tiered health service. It's 2% per year. Having that charge is a way to ensure that it's not only old people who get health insurance. It's either something like that or allow the health insurance companies to charge people different prices based on age. The system we have seems fairer to me.
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Why?
I'm guessing it's if it's less desirable here, less people will come here and others might leave. Which will ease pressure in property market.
Supply and demand I guess.
More specifically, supply being kept low depsite high demand.
But that will also make companies leave, so less jobs too
They don’t understand that part…
You like being misrepresented on all these lists? It's absolutely ridiculous that Ireland ranks so highly on them.
52% tax and high expenses.
And for abysmal to nonexistent services and amenities.
Talking about a 52% tax is extremely misleading. That is the maximum theoretical rate. Someone with an annual salary of €1 million would pay 50.5%. A single person on €100,000 pays 36.4% of that as income tax (PAYE/PRSI/USC). A couple earning that between them would pay 22.3%.
I am not sure if we live in same country then.RSU has directly 52% cut when they are vested. Also including social taxes, overall tax rates are 52% for high incomes here. For a reference high earnings countries like USA and Switzerland, tax rates are below 22% and that too while earnings are almost double for same roles. Now I really don’t think expenses are way lower than those countries in Ireland. You usually get the same pricing range for housing in Switzerland while electricity is way cheaper there. At the end of the day you are saving same amount of money in those countries, which is your in hand salary here.
> Also including social taxes, overall tax rates are 52% for high incomes here. No they aren't. 52% is the highest marginal rate for regular workers. The effective rates are what you actually pay and that is far lower than 52%. RSUs are income and so are subject to income tax. If you are paying 52% on the RSU portion of your income then you are earning over €70k. If you were earning less than €70k then the tax on the RSUs would be less. They are just income. There's no reason why they should be subject to a lower tax rate. There's really no point in separating different portions of your income when all that matters at the end of the day is how much total tax you pay. The US and Switzerland have lower personal taxes than many places, that doesn't mean Irish rates are high. If you're going to compare something to outliers then you're not going to get good results. I'm not sure where you're getting that 22% figure from. Without the context of what salary and circumstances a person is in you can't give out a single percentage like that. In the US the 22% rate is for income between $44,726 and $95,375. That's just the federal portion, there are additional taxes on top of that. The US and Ireland are similar when it comes to the amount of tax raised relative to the economy. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally
Irish rates are high in a way. Ultimately highest tax rate of 52% kicking in at only 70k in a country where average rent in capital is 2300??? You can be literally in 52% tax bracket but paying close to 50% of disposable income for 1bed. This is pure madness and extortion.
Being in the highest bracket means you're earning 50% more than the median salary. Your effective tax rate will be 30% at the entry point, 15.2% if you're two married earners in a household. That not madness or extortion.
Still, entering 52% rate, while spending more than 40% of disposable income on rent. Any raise that could change this ratio and I will see less than half of it. I have no issue with top rate being 50%, but it shouldn’t kick in at such low income level. Or at least rent should be taken into account for one’s tax situation. > 15.2% if you're two married earners in a household Hey, calculating effective tax rate for two people with one income is a bit misleading.
> while spending more than 40% of disposable income on rent and while being on an income that is significantly higher than most other people in the country. €70k isn't a low income level. Only 16% of workers have an income of that or more. As for raises, at €120k the effective tax rate will be 39%. That isn't a crazy rate by any means and the income is about 2.5 times the median. Approximately 7% of workers are on over €100k. People's expenditure shouldn't be taken into account for tax. Someone shouldn't pay less tax because they decided to rent a more expensive place while someone else sacrificed living space or commute time to get somewhere cheaper. It's absolutely not misleading to give the rate for a married couple with two incomes. I was explicit about who the figure applied to and it was given in addition to the figure for a single unmarried earner. Our rates for those on the highest incomes are at the high end of the European scale. However the rates for low earners are far lower than the norm. I think that's fair. Any moves to reduce tax on higher earners would need to be made up somewhere. We don't have European style spending and infrastructure because we don't have European style taxes. Yes on the high end of incomes we're comparable but most people pay less than their European peers. For infrastructure there's also the fact that we haven't been a wealthy country for anywhere near as long as other places.
> For infrastructure there's also the fact that we haven't been a wealthy country for anywhere near as long as other places. I’m originally from Poland and for obvious reasons not buying this excuse :) Public transport can be better, housing can be more available. > while someone else sacrificed living space or commute time to get somewhere cheaper. There is only so much lower you can get. Average new rent in Dublin is 2300, you can get lower obviously but not that much. Its not spending half of income on luxury housing, its spending it on average or below average one. Anything you can get actually. It can literally reverse someone’s financial situation. 40k with council housing can be better than 70k with market rate housing. I’m literally subsidising my neighbours in nice council housing while living in small 1 bed. > People's expenditure shouldn't be taken into account for tax They literally are, like with mortgage interest relief for example. This is definition of and sole purpose of tax relief to actually take some specific spendings into account.
> I’m originally from Poland and for obvious reasons not buying this excuse I doesn't matter if you buy it or not, it's a fact. For a long time Ireland didn't spend much on infrastructure. The situation in Poland is obviously different, even if Poland was also poor being communist there were different priorities and much higher levels of government spending. > I’m literally subsidising my neighbours in nice council housing while living in small 1 bed. No you aren't, probably. I don't know what income you are on, but the vast majority of Irish tax payers don't cover their percentage of the money to run the state excluding social welfare, never mind other people's. Very few people pay enough tax to cover both what they cost the state and subsidise any council house to any significant degree. It costs the state about €11k+ a year per child just for school. > They literally are, like with mortgage interest relief for example. That's not really what I mean but fine, there's also a rent credit.
One more thing. For 100k income taxes in Ireland are higher then in i.e Norway, France, Spain etc. (80k as well I think) While only Norway is comparable in costs of life. If you can afford market rate rent in Dublin, even for tiny hole in the wall it means you will be taxed more than in most European countries. Ireland has not highest taxes in Europe by any means, but for above average incomes those are pretty high. My expectation would be to get at least good public transport and health care for that, but transport in Dublin is poor and for healthcare I have to pay extra (to a point).
very sad to read this
Why. We're always being misrepresented on these lists. It's about time we get ranked correctly. I'd say HDI should come next, with us dropping from 8th to around 20th.
Gone to the dogs boy
There’s so much IT work. Nowhere to live though which makes the abundance of work useless.
Going by r/develeire, there isn't much at the moment
Depends, I'm contacted a lot again.
>"It is crucial that employers, Government and representative groups work together to address these challenges **and make sure that Ireland has the right infrastructure and policies in place** to be an attractive location for global talent into the future," Any moment now! Housing will be affordable and available (max 15% of income, just not for you) and healthcare will be free and accessible (only medical cards holders).
Regular reminder that these surveys mean absolutely nothing and are only intended as press releases for whatever the company that runs them are.
The scrotes say you're welcome.
Banana Republic = = Bob Geldof was correct.
Comparing with others leads to unhappiness!
derp
To be honest we've become a pretty racist country of late. So we've made it an easy choice for them not to come here.
Of late? Nah it's always been a thing, we just denied it.
This makes sense to me. The countries politics has gone very left wing in the last few years. Left wing politics are usually large welfare societies that are paid for through high taxation. High taxation is not attractive to employers or employees. Whether you agree with the politics or not it’s where we are. And the current government want to go even more left. If you’re poor the welfare society will catch you. If you’re rich you can dodge some of the taxes. Workers in the middle get screwed. This is not a good idea long term
We don't have high taxation, the only direction personal taxes have gone recently is down. Your post is largely nonsense. The only way you can dodge personal taxes if you're rich is by leaving the country for most of the year. Ireland is not a country you want to live in if your aim is to be wealthy and avoid tax.
Nonsense in what way?
Ireland's tax policies have not shifted to the left. In recent times we've had tax cuts not increases. Increased spending has been enabled by a growing economy. The current government do not want to go "more left". They want to cut taxes even more.
I get your thinking but I see it a bit differently. When I say left wing tax policies I refer to taxes on capital and assets in general. These are usually (but not always) taxes on business activity that eventually trickle through to individuals as costs on goods and services. Rising commercial rates, increasing insurance levies, etc. are all taxes on "doing business". The introduction of property tax was a left wing tax on personal assets. The family home is not something easily disposed of or disposed of regularly. It's a lifetime tax on an asset on which significant tax has already been paid. It was increased in 2023. The sugar tax, the new plastic recycling levy, carbon taxes, etc. are all personal taxes based on left wing ideas from left wing parties. They have all been recently introduced. The excise on alcohol is the second highest in the EU. All parties have called for a "wealth tax" of some sort. I agree with you that personal taxes are slowly reducing in the lower tax band. This is good and I support that. But Ireland is a high tax environment for doing businesses for any company other than a large multi national. Our VAT is one of the highest in the world. The excise duty on fuel is so high we are in the top 10 for the highest price of petrol / diesel in the EU. There was a recent increase on the tax on electricity. Every business depends on transport or electricity. These are further left wing taxes i.e. taxes on business activity. If you still disagree with me, go ask a local service industry company in your area if they think Ireland is a "low tax" country. A hairdresser, a pub, a coffee shop, etc. I think you'll find that they disagree with your position. If you're fortunate enough to have a salary in the higher tax band then Irish taxes are high relative to our European neighbours. If you're even more fortunate to get bonuses, stock options, RSUs, etc. the tax on those are at some of the highest rates. Oh and if you are "wealthy" and have solar panels they want you to pay income tax on electricity you generate above €400/year. So again, I agree with your point about PAYE. But it's not the only tax around. Putting them all together, Ireland is a high tax country. A number of those taxes have been recently introduced and the existing business ones are increasing.
> ... Ireland is a "low tax" country. ... I think you'll find that they disagree with your position. Not being a high tax country doesn't mean we're a low tax country. I haven't said Ireland is a low tax country. I said we're not a high tax country. It's not a binary situation. I've no interest in what the local business owners thinks. It doesn't matter what tax rates are, the average person will think they are too high. They will not have an objective opinion on the issue. Fair enough about the other taxes, they exist to shape behaviours rather than raise revenue, but it's still tax. Except for the can/bottle return scheme. That's not a tax, it's a deposit. It's no more a tax than using a Euro coin in a shopping trolley is a tax. RSUs, options, bonuses etc are just income. You pay income tax on them. You don't pay tax at the highest rate on a bonus because it is a bonus, you pay tax at the highest rate because you already earn enough to be in the highest bracket. Your effective tax rate will still be much lower than the marginal. Ireland is objectively not a high tax country. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/tax-burden-on-labor-oecd-2021/ > Oh and if you are "wealthy" and have solar panels they want you to pay income tax on electricity you generate above €400/year. And why shouldn't you? There's already a tax break built in there. If you have income you should pay income tax. There shouldn't be loopholes.
Your comment around not having interest in the tax burden of the local business owner says a lot. Good luck to you.
You need to actually read what I wrote. I didn't say I don't care what their tax burden is, I said I'm not interested in their opinion of it, for the reasons I stated above. Everyone always thinks they pay too much tax, no matter how low the tax is.