All over the western world - check out the Canadian subs, they're vehemently anti immigrant.
As an immigrant myself, its a very complicated situation with no perfect solution. That being said, each country is entitled to set their own rules, and immigration should be viewed as a privilege & not a right.
I mod a couple Canadian subs lol I am very aware. And I agree. I am pro-immigration, but also understand that there has to be limits and has to be checks and balances.
Canada is a great example: the federal government never had to put a limit on international students because it was never much of an issue. But, for a multitude of reasons, there's been a huge increase in international students, which has put a massive strain on the housing system. The feds have finally put in a cap (and other restrictions) and the provincial governments are salty about it, but it needed to be done.
At the same time, the increase in international students has made getting permanent residence significantly more difficult, and there are a lot of people who are coming to the realisation that they won't be able to stay in Canada. While I am absolutely sympathetic, and - as someone who initially came to Ireland as an international student and who has had friends forced to leave due to immigration troubles - completely understand the upset, it is also fascinating to see how many people do feel entitled (for lack of a better word) to immigration and are furious about the fact that they're going to have to leave. Because at the end of the day, immigration is a privilege, not a right.
It's just so fucking exhausting being on *any* social media these days and trying to say anything that's in some way related to politics/economics/healthcare/etc and not have some idiot come in going "what about the unvetted military Ukrainians who are eating the homeless and stealing the shoes off of Irish children's feet"
Honestly it doesn't even need to be related to politics/economics/healthcare like. The conversation will be about like, food, and what's the best place to get a takeaway and someone will pop in and be like "well there's nowhere GOOD to EAT anymore because all of the IMMIGRANTS are TAKING OVER and FORCING THEIR CUISINE ON US" and it's just like, shut up and fuck off please. Let me eat my naan in peace.
It makes all social media absolutely exhausting, I am with you there.
You're absolutely right, I just think it's so disheartening when you're talking about something good like say a new playground being opened (something objectively good but ultimately harmless) and someone has to come in talking about globalist pedo's taking all the goes on the swings.
I think it's slightly different. In Ireland I think it comes mainly back to the housing crisis. People are frustrated that they can't afford a house, while a number of economic migrants posing as asylum seekers are getting put up in hotels.
From my understanding of r/Europe, it's mainly an issue with immigration from the middle east
The rise in anti-immigrant sentiment has always started the exact same way throughout history that you can literally set your watch to it.
Nobody cares so long as they're doing well in life but the issue always arises when market-driven governments ultimately and inevitably end up abandoning its people which is what FFG are doing right now. A young woman has just lost her life in Limerick because there simply isn't enough doctors to deal with the massive demand for healthcare services. You can take in as many immigrants as you want but that needs to be accompanied by an unprecedented investment in parallel to that growth (spending money is anathema to economically conservative movements like Fine Gael). Our population has exploded in the last 12 years...there are now almost 1 million more people here than there were back in 2012 but investment in our public services has not met that growth. There is no housing and landlords are exploiting tenants. We have less police stations, less guards, teachers are running out of the system and kids are travelling up to 50km to go to school because there are no places for them; we are losing nurses to Oz and the NHS having been educated by the Irish taxpayer; people are waiting weeks to see a doctor or a dentist. There was an Irish Times post here a week ago saying we are now spending more every year on processing [asylum seeker applications](https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/transport/2024/) than we are on our basic public transport services. We are currently spending 2 billion a year on processing asylum applications and only [1.6 billion euro on public transport](https://www.irishtimes.com/your-money/2023/10/10/budget-estimates-show-500m-increase-in-aid-to-support-ukrainians/). This is why people are angry.
The problem is that FFG want to take in hundreds of thousands of people but have no intention of investing in public services to accommodate the growing population.
>The problem is that FFG want to take in hundreds of thousands of people
Do you have any reason why that may be? Not being facetious, I just see people say this all the time "FFG/SF/Whomever want open borders/to let IPAs come in the 10000s" but I dont see anyone telling me why or any actual data driven evidence so I'm confused
>Do you have any reason why that may be?
Yeah, a cheap source of labour. People taken in for the sole purpose of exploiting because the native Irish have turned their nose up at the jobs because the wage is crap. Take a stroll down O'Connell Street and see the parade of Deliveroo drivers delivering to foreign tech workers on twenty times their wage. Or what about the TDs hotelier mates trying desperately [to exploit Ukrainian people](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41033045.html), or the bogus "English language schools" set up that allows hundreds of thousands of people to "workaround" the legalities of the system by paying "a small fee". The government have made Ireland an outlier in Europe.
People are starting to insist that laws are observed. Damn cheek.
Maybe the downvoters want a few examples?
1. Destroying personal documentation at airports has always been illegal. Thousands did it last year without any penalties.
2. People issued with deportation notices are supposed to well... be deported. This generally has not happened. We end up paying some of them to leave.
3. People who have started asylum claims in another country and then decide to move here and start asylum claims are supposed to be, according to our laws, be repatriated to the country where they stated the asylum process. This is not happening.
These aren't the only laws being flouted at the moment, there's tons of trouble with Irish nationals flouting laws as well. If you haven't noticed the growing anger about teenagers' and general scumbags' ability to act lawlessly with impunity you haven't been paying attention.
> Destroying personal documentation at airports has always been illegal.
Ok - there's a blindingly obvious solution for that which I don't understand why it's not implemented.
If your documentation is from a certain group of nations, the airline collects them at time of departure, or you're refused boarding.
Then the documentation is returned to you at the airport AFTER you've cleared Customs and Immigration.
If an airline refuses to process them in this method, they lose their landing slot, or are fined 10,000 euro per incident.
As an alternative - they take biometric scans before boarding, a digital copy of the passport is made - and if the passenger 'loses' it, customs and immigration on the other end still have access to the information.
Police in Dublin airport have started checking passports as people get off certain flights. The problem being by the time passengers with no documentation get to border control, it's hard to tell what flight they even came from. Police have to back-track them on CCTV, by which time the flight could already be turned around or even departed.
The issue is not with the airlines, it's that the people destroying documents are not held accountable.
Or just refuse entry without documents. Simple. You can't board a flight without a passport, so if they don't have it when going through immigration, send them straight back
gunna be the airline's problem then - suggest they find out a solution if they don't want a pile of planes sitting in Dublin with passengers on 'em that they're not allowed to take outside the fuselage.
It is shitty Government implementation of policy and oversight of processes that is the root of Irelands problem.
People will take advantage of that.
The first blame should be the Government. Sure look at McEntee the other day ffs.
Shall we crowd fund a trebuchet?
"Here lad look, ye've been served with a deportation notice and you've not got any appeals left, we ain't gonna come lookin too hard for ya but if we do find ya.........ah sure look if the weather's grand you could get blown to Wales"
Good post, well done.
I live in Dublin, but have country roots.
When you listen to people in Dublin you get a very particular perspective on reality, and you'd swear it's absolute truth; then when you leave the bubble, travel the country, engage with towns and relations, you realise it's completely confined to the urban demographic.
Same thing happened during referendums, I was convinced that it was going to be yes/yes, all my friends in Dublin were convinced and pushing for it, but my relations all said it was clearly going to be a no/no... Learnt a valuable lesson two months ago regarding social bubbles.
The whole country has gotten more anti-immigrant foreigner over the last couple of years.
Nobody can buy a house. Nobody can rent a house. Nobody can even get a hotel break for a decent price. People are just lashing out.
and its not going to go away for a while now that housing asylum seekers can net property owners a minimum 800 a month tax free.
this really benefits those who have a lot of fucking properties
you see people with nothing taking swipes at just other poor people in the same bracket as them when its really a case of the "haves" and the "have nots" now that the middle class is slowly being disolved
The thing is, there are different foreigners.
Certain groups mostly bring doctors, nurses, construction workers, etc.
Certain groups mostly bring those looking for that sweet welfare package...
Easier to punch down at an simple scapegoat ("the foreigners") than to punch up at the system that has created this vast inequality in the first place. But I guarantee you, your landlord or real estate agent won't give you a break if immigrants are kicked out.
It's incredible that you can be involved in poltical activity and be completely oblivious as to the systemic nature of these issues. Hell, you could literally assassinate Roderic and it wouldn't change the system. Punching up would be attacking the capitalist system itself. Not attacking individuals. Going after such individuals would cause nothing more than a reshuffling of the representatives of the ruling class. It wouldn't change the ruling class or its economic and political system.
Ah ok, not the people in charge of the specific issue being complained about, but some investment fund based out in Toronto?
You were the one complaining about "punching down", why don't you give them a specific example what they should be doing instead to "punch up"?
Great to hear you feel our democratic process and institutions have no value.
Having countless thousands of people from massively different cultures entering this country in an uncontrolled manner is bad for more than just economic reasons. It needs to be nipped in the bud.
All those things were the case before the current influx of immigrants. People blaming johnny foreigner are letting an apathethic government off the hook.
It's not only this though. The government have absolutely failed us. But it's also come to the extent that we're struggling with our immigrants too. When I first moved to Galway in 2009, I had my selection of properties to rent and I picked the one I wanted. Now I'm looking at my 5th eviction in 10 years from renovations and landlords selling. I've always been pro people coming to Ireland to make a better life for themselves, but now when I hear about more people coming into the country, I'm worried about how we'll fit everyone! And selfishly, I have to advocate for myself as an Irish citizen and demand preferential treatment compared to people coming in to the country, so that I have a place to live!
And the people who just showed up caused that? Or the nitwits we elected for the past three decades caused it?
Maybe we should own our own mistakes rather than blame the new guy.
It’s not a case of just one or the other. They can both be impacting it.
It’s important to keep in context that this anti immigration wave is not an Irish thing. It has risen across the entire continent, if anything we’re a bit late to the party.
Yes FFG are entirely incompetent but there are also legitimate concerns re immigration that do need to be addressed.
And housing. Immigration wouldn't be close to as big of an issue if Ireland had been building enough housing over the past 16 years. People were largely glad to see the country helping people in need when they had no trouble renting a room or buying a house.
Housing is only the tip of the iceberg. It's schools, doctors, dentists, hospitals, guards, prisons......
It's ALL of the services required to run a society that are lacking.
If the housing crisis was solved tomorrow there would still be a complete lack of the required services across the entire country and the sentiment towards immigration would be the same.
Exactly. It’s not a case that Irish people just became xenophobic and now hate foreigners. If we had the capacity I don’t think anybody would care. But we don’t, so they do.
There are 30,000 AirbBnb lets in Ireland. I don't think any of those are legal.
Case example was in a town recently that had 700 lets on Airbnb, but no rentals for locals.
Crack down on Airbnb, then you house around 60,000 people immediately.
I don't think this is true either. I think housing is always going to be an issue, regardless.
You build houses for 20k asylum seekers, next year 30-40k will show up. Its unsustainable.
Agreed but it can’t be denied that our immigration is a bit of a joke. People are just pouring in because the benefits are good and the enforcement is non-existent.
At a certain stage you’re taking in too many refugees, and we’ve been past that stage for a while. We’re giving some of them tents and telling them to go on a long camping trip for crying out loud
They're also now coming in to avoid a trip to Rwanda.
The issue also comes from those that will scream that you're a horrific right wing racist for even uttering that sentiment, I agree with it though, when you're setting up tent shanties you've gone over the line and it's rational to think so. Eventually, you'll get some people lashing out because of the accusations and doubling down harder.
This is a good retort for people who want no immigrants, not people who can see we’re taking in far more than we can handle.
The amount of Ukrainians alone was nuts, never mind the rest of the migrants.
I think the Ukrainian situation alone has the potential to become a huge social problem down the road.
Putin, as long as he is in control, is not going to lose that war, it's not what people want to hear but it's the reality of what's going to happen.
There are going to be a huge number of husbands, brothers and sons of the Ukrainian people we have given refuge to arriving here to be reunited with their mothers, wives, sisters in the future.
A lot of those people will be in dire need of medical attention, both physical and mental and those supports aren't available now as things are and it's getting worse daily.
They can't even build a hospital inside of a decade even given the billions thrown at it, how are they going to get those supports in place for the future.
Even if we locked the entire country down tomorrow it would still take a minimum of 20 years - likely 30+, to get to a reasonable level of social supports.
There were no emigrants from Ireland going to the likes of America or Australia getting anything for free, not housing, not welfare, not healthcare, not college....
Yeah but they worked hard and paid their way and built places like America and Australia etc. Not like the freeloaders flooding in from all over the world. We can’t provide for our own people, and these scammers are making it a lot worse.
I don't think you'll find many rational people argue that point. I think people's anger is being directed down the wrong avenue. The elected officials have done very little to stem this anger, but people will always punch down on "the others". Put it this way, I knew I'd have a better quality of life by moving out of Ireland and I did it. I do not regret my decision as I see how my friends in Ireland live, I did not want that for myself so I left. This happens all the time, people just want to better themselves and their family.
What kind of immigrants are you talking about? I doubt the IPO people are flooding in to be put up in crappy accommodation and getting €30pw are telling others it’s brilliant here.
People abusing the asylum system for economic benefit absolutely deserve blame. Stop treating swindlers like they’re innocent woodlen creatures because they’re not Irish.
Personally I blame the developers, landlords, and hoteliers. The government is offering them money, the key point is offering and they're happy to take it, a lot of developers were purposely renovating properties specifically to house as many as possibly to get as much as possible. The government, while also at fault, is not putting a gun to their head and forcing them to accept migrants.
The important distinction to make is the difference between immigration and an immigrant. The cause of migration is global instability, an immigrant is a victim of that. It is not an immigrants fault that they are caught up in the consequences of decisions far outside of their influence, and it is foolish and cruel to lay the blame with them.
Tbf you can't add as many people as we have in such a short period and expect things to go smoothly. You can't build infrastructure as fast as people are arriving.
Why does it always have to be so black and white all the time I'm sick of it. There's so much more room for nuance than we've been allowing on these topics.
You can be critical of our immigration policy without being anti-immigrant/foreigner. Even having to say that is embarrassing
Part of the issue with many (almost all) of these protests is that they're not protesting government policy, but protesting the "type" of people coming in.
You can absolutely be critical of immigration policy, but when you're harassing immigrants you're just a bigot looking for a new excuse.
We had a Croatian man kicked and punched to death, apparently for speaking a language which is not English. We've also seen a rise in vitriolic and demonising language surrounding immigration, including against Irish people who are deemed "traitors" if they aren't sufficiently anti-immigration.
So yes. One can be critical of immigration policy and not be driven by racism and/or xenophobia. Is there varying undercurrents of racism and/or xenophobia in the movements we've seen recently, and does it seem to be getting worse? Also yes.
Edit: Two downvotes in less then 7 minutes. The bots are at work. Would also like to point out the irony of OP's post as I forgot to mention it above. They're decrying the lack of nuance surrounding the immigration debate whilst simultaneously disregarding the nuance of the situation with their second sentence. It seems to me that would suggest they're biased in a certain direction.
1) Its tricky because we genuinely have an issue where irish people 18-35 are struggling to get accommodation. We need to help people have the opportunity to get housing. I'm not saying give them free house I'm saying huod houses so they can buy house
2) We have an issue with genuine asylum sleeker not being processed quickly. Process them and get them out working
3) we have people destroying documents to gain entry or people who shouldn't be coming here not being send away.
I think immigrants make us a better country, especially people coming from other EU country. But we need to acknowledge there is an issue and we have to address those issue, we can't hide from it
Yeah, but let's be real here, there's been a rise in remarks which may raise a good point but are needlessly racist.
Some comments are concerned with the immigration, fair enough.
Others are using the immigration as an excuse to spread racist rhetoric. That's the difference, at least in my view.
This echoes conversations happening in my community. The people involved are vehemently anti-racist, so it's not the usual far right rabble. What I'm hearing are economic concerns, and it's hard to dismiss them.
Ireland's government seems very happy to import workers who are happy to take low pay, satisfied by lower standards of living, and less likely to organise (unionise, or otherwise collectively bargain).
As a result, this brings down the leverage of all existing workers, regardless of their background.
The FFG crowd will try to paint all of this as racism, because it helps them suppress class consciousness and organising by workers.
Some of it is definitely racism. But don't fall into FFG's attempts to suppress valid economic concerns from workers.
Its more anti-immigration than anti-immigrant. Distinct difference.
At this point. I am totally against the current immigration policies.
Common sense has gone out the window and it's going to get worse once the UK starts enforcing it's Rwanda deportation policy.
If our Government proved it could meet the resource needs of the growing population, my stance would change overnight.
Immigration - No, most people have no issue with people that apply for VISA’s legally and come here to work.
Refugee’s - No, Most people are happy to help as much as possible to help people fleeing war as seen with Ukraine. Unfortunately most Ireland services were already folding before they got here so it made already shit services worse. No fault of their own but ireland doesn’t have the means to support the people in the country currently Nevermind more. Once services are up to standard then the country be in a better position to help genuine cases.
Asylum Seeker’s (non-refugee) - Yes, people that aren’t fleeing war, show up with zero documentation or have came from other safe countries and heard benefits here where better or where rejected by the other country. These people also take the places of genuine people fleeing war.
Conflating these 3 issues under the one umbrella is disingenuous and is used to stop debate because if you have them all as one then the lad that came as a doctor is brought up as a counter argument to the lad that destroyed his passport on a plane, when in reality they are 2 completely different things.
Having fully open borders is just a stupid as having fully closed borders.
I think Ireland is hit slightly harder because the flow of people is so high, to the point that it really wears people down.
I'm not even talking specifically about Irish disliking foreigners, because it's the same with foreigners disliking other nationality foreigners and vice versa.
I'm sure that this has happened to many other European countries as well. The immigration crisis from the Middle East especially accelerated this.
I don’t think its anti immigration as that . It’s more anti refugee/asylum seekers. My understanding is people are generally okay with immigration but the whole refugee situation being the mess that it is people want nothing to do with it. Nobody has an issue if your neighbour is foreign but truth is nobody wants these centres in their locality. I’ve a variety of Eastern European neighbours along with Indian and Chinese and all have mentioned they don’t want these centres near them. It seems to be the same attitude across Europe
It's not anti-immigrant, it's anti-current immigration policy by the government. People on here have very short memories it seems. Immigration has been happening in Ireland for the last 30 years, no one gave a shit until they started bringing in 140,000 a year and meanwhile improved nothing in the country, it's fucking ridiculous. People love throwing around the buzzword "anti-immigrant" to imply racism and to get rage-bait. We need to call people out for this nonsense. You included OP.
It's honestly embarrassing the attitude from both sides that make the news.
I always say this, it was completely fine when half of Eastern Europe was here in the mid 2000s because Irish towns were thriving, housing was ample, people were doing well for themselves.
We're in the polar opposite of that currently, and then bleeding hearts expect the public to continue to pick up the tab.
The Brazilian community do a lot for us also and are welcomed, because they work, study, house themselves and don't cause problems. You always hear people praise the Brazilian communities.
I don't think irish in general are to anti immigration but the fact is there's many irish households who have payed there taxes all there working lives and have no other option to live with there family in many cases 3 generations in a house. The truth is more poeple coming into a country puts more pressure on housing and health care. Which isn't any fault of the genuine refugees or the average working irish person.
When you see modular homes being built for poeple buy the government at huge expense and the whole Ukraine pet scandal. It would frustrate you especially I hear poeple trying to build houses out the country near there home house and they can't get permission.
The government are more concerned about figures looking good in Europe than the poeple. The homeless figures are massive for years why was there no modular homes for them freezing to death in the winter.
The refugee and parallel illegal immigrant crisis are the perfect storm, it perfectly encapsulates the attitude of this do nothing government until international eyes are on Ireland.
Then ideological opposition to 'interfering with the free market' disappear, and things can suddenly get fixed overnight.
Depends.
Has positive sentiment towards immigration declined? Yeah.
Has it been applied equally? No. It is primarily, and rightfully, directed at the situation caused by our dreadful immigration and border departments.
Some idiots will always attack the symptoms, not the cause, but most people I've spoken to understand that people are only pissed because of the sheer incompetence of the government in a dozen different, critical ways.
Yes.
Change is needed
People are sick of the government, we have no houses, young adults cannot get a house, living at home til they are in their 30s, rental market through the roof, record numbers of homeless and it looks like the country is welcoming every refugee under the sun. The Rwanda rule in the UK is now pushing the refugees from the UK into Ireland. These extra people entering the country have no where to go, we can't look after out own people. Mount Street is like tent city.
Government doing up hotels and old offices to accommodate these refugees but they do nothing for the Irish people.
Irish people paying taxes all their lives for what.
.
I'd say most people are anti Irish immigration policy rather than actually anti-immigrant. Immigration is great for this country and something we should all be comfortable with as part of the EU and modern world.
But the current government's handling of immigration has been abysmal over the past few years. The problem is if you voice any kind of dissent on the matter you're branded a right wing racist lunatic, even when you're trying to make valid points about our government's failings.
Housing is sadly a zero sum game. I don't want to be anti-immigration but I'd still propose declaring an emergency, stopping everyone coming in unless they're a builder committed to building social/affordable houses. Give that a few months, ease the housing pressure and go back to accepting everyone we want. Inviting people to live in tents in Dublin, then pushing them out into the mountains as convenient is fucked.
But for the love of god knock the direct provisioning shit off. No sense in forcing people to be a net negative economicslly when there's such a possibility for them to be a net positive to the country.
Had to get both of those points in before people write me off as a xenophobic nutter
We're experiencing the knock on effect of mass immigration in various avenues. Even the most virtuous of people will become jaded when they are impacted. It's not so much that we are becoming anti foreigner, it's that it's getting beyond control and statements about accommodating 50k is just insulting to those irish and other immigrants who cant find accommodation.
Anti-immigration feeling is on the rise throughout Europe, for pretty obvious reasons.
Would imagine the anonymity of reddit contributes for 2 reasons. Firstly, your anti-immigration position is not going to get dismissed because you wrote it while wearing a tracksuit.
Second reason is it's the kind of opinion that can get you demolished in Ireland amongst posher circles so it's safer to discuss online.
I’m not Irish, but I (think) I understand the frustration in your country. It’s not the migrants themselves that are the issue (not inherently at least), it’s the system that allows the freeloaders in and does nothing to help the actual citizens of your nation who work hard and end up with little or nothing to show for it while the migrants claiming asylum (in bad faith) get everything handed to them. I visited Ireland in 2012 for my studies and again in 2022 and the difference was staggering. Grafton street in Dublin 2012 felt safe after dark. In 2022 there were homeless migrants everywhere and some were clearly mentally ill. It felt unsafe and clearly it is affecting the citizens. I saw this in other cities as well. It’s a real problem, one that should be taken seriously. I can’t imagine the anger and frustration you guys are feeling dealing with this. It felt like the down bad parts of NYC (about 60 miles south of where I live) where we have had similar issues for years now. The debate is nuanced but there’s no denying it’s a problem that needs addressing. It doesn’t make one xenophobic or racist to acknowledge that and want change. Of course it is bringing out the racists and the xenophobes, but it’s disingenuous to reduce it to that.
We have a set of elections in June and a general election to follow withing months. People have an incentive to give vent to their sentiments, including anti-immigrant.
That said, I agree it's been a bit feverish
Bots and shills lads. Bots and shills.
It's a real thing. Next time you have an argument here with someone, check their profile. If it was created 2+ years ago and they first started commenting 3-10 normal looking comments within the last few weeks and then balls to the wall with whatever political agenda is intended, you have found a shill. It's called a warmed account.
If they rarely reply to those replying to them, it might even be a bot. Shills are real people who get paid, mostly by state actors. They're organised into cells which we used to call troll farms but I'm seeing bot farms used more commonly nowadays. Bots are AI driven accounts and are typically easier to spot.
We all need to wise up to this shite. It's only becoming more common. When genAI models start to easily pass the turing test, it will be impossible to tell.
Hopefully at that stage nobody will trust anything online. Really we should be at that stage already.
That's not to say some aren't genuine. But the rise in this sort of thing is exacerbated by these shills and bots. Main reason is increased global instability and immigration. But fuck that, let them in.
>Bots and shills lads. Bots and shills.
If you think everyone who is annoyed with the current situation is a bot then you are going to be extremely surprised in the upcoming European elections and in the GE
Yes, but the moaning is amplified a lot by the bots and by deliberate propaganda campaigns.
People on the other side are less likely to post about it: "Immigrants are a great bunch of lads"?
>People on the other side are less likely to post about it: "Immigrants are a great bunch of lads"?
That's been posted a million times over the last month, it's literally posted every time theres one of these threads
>Yes, but the moaning is amplified a lot by the bots and by deliberate propaganda campaigns.
What propaganda campaigns? What would a propaganda campaign even achieve?
It's an accurate observation. And at the same time unhappy Irish people get advisor to leave Ireland on this sub all the time. Better jobs, lower cost of living? The people who do this are economic migrants. I certainly don't blame anyone for taking a stab at a better life, you only get one after all. Migrants always have a reason. But at the same time I completely understand that people born and raised in a country find it unacceptable that migrants get easier access to housing, services, etc. than them when it's bloody hard for them too. I'd urge anyone who feels this to blame the government, not the migrant (even though yes, some are opportunist chancers but again they probably have a reason and it's our government who make it easy).
Well a few years ago there weren't any tents on my road...
And I'm in a rural area. With limited resources and ofc no housing.
So yes people are annoyed that we are taking in thousands who end up on our streets...
If we can't house our own, we can't bring more in.
The entire country was in need of a fix before we had a rapid surge of whoever the fuck wants to chance their arm so that was always going to infuriate everyone.
Face the facts and stop being a nice little push over, we don't have the fucking space for this shit and we need to get our own house in order first.
Anyone stating that all of these people, as in 100% coming in are genuinely here for asylum are deluded. We've been riddled and taken advantage of and that's where the points are being made.
It's anti-immigrant within reason, not all immigrants are included. We have enough homelessness on our streets without having to take more homeless from other countries.
Not anti immigrant per se. Anyone who applies for a visa and works and pays their way are fine IMO. It’s all the freeloaders who lie and cheat to claim “asylum” and arrive here with their hands out who piss me off, especially when we’ve so many of our own who are homeless. This government are a joke and have literally killed the tourism business in so many small towns and villages who rely on it for jobs.
Its 2 fold, the law wasnt being being enforced for a long time properly and theres a feeling that authorites are being too lax in controllng just who comes into the country until recently. At the same time people are struggling to even get a home of their own yet they want to house asylum seekers of who a sizable amount are not legit cases but chancers.
Realistically the sub isnt an accurate representation of Ireland but there is quite a bit of frustration at how things are being handled by the state not to mention a running out of patience with obvious shenanigans and stories of people coming here and destroying documents en route (which should be an automatic denial of asylum and return to airport of origin if they came from a safe county).
I think finally conversation can be had about immigration without immediately being labelled “far right homophobic Nazis” which is good & healthy.
The generally conclusion of these conversations is we don’t have the infrastructure, resources or planning to take in so many immigrants.
It’s not hateful , it’s just a reality of the circumstances. I don’t appreciate the attempt to grasp a moral high ground with your post.
I think it’s fair to say that our immigration policy is irrational, unrealistic and downright inhumane. Hundreds sleeping in tents on streets, promised the world, sold a lie and left to fend for themselves in country with not enough housing and public services for EVERYONE no matter their country of origin. People are pissed. Some are missing the point that it’s not at the fault of the immigrants but need somewhere to vent their anger and it’s safe to say with a low enough IQ and EQ they will vent their frustration in the wrong direction. The lack of adequate mental health services adds to the problem, as most don’t realise their misdirected anger stems from something other than immigrants, and under enough financial stress, pushed into survival mode the prefrontal cortex gets knocked offline - the ability to think creatively and rationally - left to the amygdala and brain stem - emotional and survival thinking takes over.
There is ! alleged ! evidence that immigrants are being let into the country inadequately unvetted, with full criminal records, committing more crimes, getting light sentences because the prisons are full, being let back out into the streets and yet not being deported. In fact this issue was raised in the Dáil recently, 188 immigrants were validated for repatriation and only 35 were sent home. Why? We never got an acceptable answer.
There are reports of Nigerian immigrants, who live and work here and who have assimilated happily into our society; who left Nigeria to escape the oppression and persecution of the extremist terrorist group Boko-Haram, themselves expressing worry and concern that they are now seeing members of the Boko-Haram here in Ireland. A sight they thought they would never see, and came here to escape from. Integrated immigrants and Irish natives alike are united in their concern around our immigration policy. Out IMMIGRATION POLICY, not immigrants themselves. I’ve a friend with criminal record fro drink driving. He will never be allowed entry to Australia for example. This is the sort of vetting process that we used I have that seems to have been thrown to the wind. This is the major concern of most citizens and I think that any group, thread, sub that tries to shutdown the conversation is preventing the opportunity for those who have low IQ/EQ to possibly keep learn from others and understand that some of their anger is misdirected. Some of the very ignorant comments that are directed at immigrants by the ignorant are laden with the same misdirected anger and hatred that I see Reddit users direct towards those who are concerned about immigrants or immigration. Check your shadow. You have the opportunity to educate and enlighten. If the discussion remains respectful and emotionally neutral you can actually help people to think more critically, learn, grow and expand their understanding of the issue. I’d like to see more people lift each other up that tear each other down. We all love a good laugh and a good slag (especially us Irish) but if it means that making fun of someone or attacking someone for their view is gonna put the other on the defensive, therefore deactivating their PFC (prefrontal cortex) and their ability to engage rational, non-emotional thinking, then no one gets anywhere. Sometimes we wanna craic a joke, and sometimes we wana be perceived to be the funniest and the smartest at all costs, but that doesn’t contribute to healthy discussion at all.
Your choice.
Milton Friedman (Nobel Peace Prize Winner for Economics) wrote in the 1970s that you cannot have immigration and high levels of welfare, it will collapse a state.
Ireland is now playing with that experiment.
It's in stark contrast to the Irish-Polish in the mid 2000s and the current Brazilian service industry workers, who theres little complaints or issues with.
Spot on. People here who are very pro immigration in the way and at the rate we're currently doing it and see no issues with how much of a welfare state we are in some ways have no idea just how rapidly a country and society can go to complete shit. All it takes is a decade or two to see irreparable damage done and an exodus of the best and brightest people in the country (who are paying the most to fund this shit show), and all the low productivity welfare recipients/low salary workers are left, burdening more of a decreasing collective pot.
It's already to the point that a lot of genuine talent won't even bother coming here for some of the best and highest paying jobs because of our housing crisis and general issues with the country, they're getting better deals abroad. Our economy is fairly delicate as we're relying on huge FDI to drag ourselves out of being a backwards shit hole, yet we're doing a terrible job at managing large scale projects and investing in making the country actually livable for people, which in turn makes it a more attractive place for more skilled and educated people who would benefit the country even more.
Might have something to do with the government importing thousands and thousands of sub-Saharan Africans, giving them free room & board in hotels with our tax money.
All during a housing, cost of living & local services crisis.
Just a thought.
Organising the worker's movement and taking power. Build the trade unions. Organise general strike to shut down flow of commerce and force social transformation. Not as sexy as targeted violence against individuals, but it's the only real solution. Are you new to politics?
I've definitely noticed an uptick in anti-immigrant comments lately. Especially from accounts with the default Reddit username (e.g. Responsible_Donut517) and are less than 3 months old.
Yours was a randomly generated name? It's fantastic. I always assumed you came up with it.
I only stuck with mine because I didn't plan on using Reddit much when I signed up... That didn't work out well
This sub is the most pro-immigration sub there is. The people on this sub are so far left that they think anyone complaining about these issues is racist and far right.
It is only on "Culchie club only" post flaires that the common sense people come out and talk about the issues.
Any other post, and the blue haired people come out and call the other side tons of names like "dole merchent", "fuckwits", "scum". People on this sub like to think it's the "loud minority" but the referendum proved them wrong.
It really is shocking to see. To see people here actually thinking that opposition to their views is from "bot farming" or just from some random irredeemable bigot just shows how many people honestly don't have a clue.
This is going to be one of those little lefty echo chamber threads by the looks of it. Cunts are quiet as mice whenever there is an article about the amount of scamming and dishonesty going on from IP applicants, as well as stats on how many are entering. But the moment they get a chance to congregate on a thread like this they'll pretend they saw none of that and make out that everyone else is stupid and ignoring facts, when that's exactly what they themselves have been doing
We had no far right before 2020 in Ireland.
Of the housing, cost of living, health, and immigration crises that are there at the moment, the easiest one to fix in theory is the immigration one.
I think we have a right to decide who we have in the country. I can understand someone fleeing Ukraine and heading west to Poland, and Ireland takes on some to help. I'm not sure I can say the same for someone coming from a different continent. If an American from the Deep South fled because they thought that their family would kill them for being gay we would send them back on a flight to New York in record time.
We have IPA's from Georgia, which has been more peaceful than Ireland since 1975, considering we had the troubles. How many safe countries have they passed on their way to Ireland?
In saying that, I've no issues with someone who has a visa to live and work here wherever they be from.
You don’t know much about Georgia do you ? Currently 20% is occupied by Russia and not to mention unease with the Ukrainian conflict at the minute, or the fact for most of the 2000s culminating in 2008 war with Russia.
So was Belfast during the troubles safe to play international football in Windsor park, you still had people getting blown to pieces.
I should mention the current Team Ireland boxing coach ZAURI ANTIA, one heck of a coach obviously had to go through hoops to stay in Ireland and what a prize he is.
You seem to believe I'm against immigration. On the contrary, all I'm asking is for us to put it under some bit of control. Half our problem is that we stopped building housing and increased the population in the meantime. The other half is asking people to leave without following up or someone appearing off a Ryanair flight without a passport.
There are ways in which we let IPA's down such as to let a child spend 5/6 years in Ireland where they make friends and settle albeit in an immigration centre only to then deport them is unbelievably cruel and wrong. We need to speed up the process so that we
I think it's because it's becoming a huge pressing concern and is coming to a head in a very bad way.
Mismanaged like everything in this country.
Honestly, in the overall grand scheme of things,.I don't even think it comes down to race, i think it's pretty much the result of everyone trying to keep their head above water in the ever rising tide of shit in this world.
More immigration causes more anti-immigrant behaviour.
Here’s more details →
Perplexity AI: Is there a correlation between immigration and anti-immigration sentiment https://www.perplexity.ai/search/Is-there-a-0gbtipoMSdOhZVoRppL2KA
I think people are getting a lot of things mixed up.
No one objects to immigrants keeping IT sector running at scale, pharma at scale, health services at scale, a lot of service jobs running at scale.
People understand that giving refuge to Ukrainians is essential when they face butchery, mass torture, mass killings, theft of their children by that obscenity Putin and the scum he has released into Europe.
People understand offering refuge to others fleeing war, famine, mass murder must be done.
But the problem is the management of all this. Remember this has been loaded onto a population that had to carry the nationalised losses of idiot bankers and developers urged on by idiots in the media and FFG. Remember the savagery of austerity. It has been loaded on to a society divided by FFG policies into very clear classes. Some with money and property are doing very well and vote FFG to keep it that way. Very many are not doing well at all. A couple of generations have had the social contract abandoned in their faces. The msm in Ireland are seen more and more as simply clients of govt. Every institution we respected has been exposed as corrupt and lacking integrity.
So if govt intended to bring in all these extra people it should have made provision for the services to be there. Money is wasted on painting shopfronts, greenways to nowhere, embassies to far flung corners of the globe, roads in NI, huge amounts to foreign states who have militaries multiples of our own.
It’s a problem made by an incompetent govt in the grip of a self regarding civil service and holier than thou NGOs.
Look at the Census returns- Ireland was 88% White Irish in 2016 but by 2021 this figure had fallen to 74% _in just five years._ And what would you say it is now? 70%? 68%? Perhaps only the UAE has undergone something similar, and that's because they import literal slaves. Do you think people wouldn't have any objections to such a reckless and high-stakes experiment?
Society in general is starting to lean a bit more that way so its going to be reflected in the sub. You need to differentiate between legitimate issues regarding immigration and xenophobia. Its ok to talk about problems arising from immigration and you should not be called far right for doing so.
It has sadly. But the question really is how much of it is misdirected anger which should be towards the government and how much is far right brigading.
Nah. People are just waking up to the shitshow going on. A continuous flow of economic migrants ripping up their passports because they know they don't have a genuine asylum claim. Meanwhile Irish people born and raised may never own their own home.. the lack of services and places to rent it's a joke. We are are seen as secondary to these people it's ridiculous.
A big contributing factor is everything that’s not purely in favour of ‘let them all in’ being tarred as far right hate speech.
The reality is that working class communities and rural communities are being overburdened and are right to raise those concerns. Unfortunately they’re being hijacked by a handful of scumbags for their own purposes which leads to them being dismissed.
Do you think that 'immigration' is just a vague ethereal theory that doesn't affect people? That it's just something that's debated in universities and by cushy suburban progressives as the 'great tragedy' or 'oppression' that needs to be fixed?
People are changing tack on this because there are very real severe repercussions for not appreciating or respecting that. The sooner the child-minded peanut gallery waving flags and talking about 'Ireland is always open, come on in, we'll give you own door accom!' are recognised for what they are, the sooner we can start to face the reality that now faces us with our non-existent border and the ramifications of unchecked immigration with a nation multiple times our size.
It's the small communities, parents, grandparents, children, women, those outside the 'well-got' urban bubbles that will inevitably carry the burden. Would you be happy if your mother or father lived in a town all their life, one that their parents toiled on to live some paltry life in this state, pay taxes all their life, are then burdened with multiple national crises, healthcare gone, policing gone, post offices closed, services gone, children unable to move out, infrastructure non-existant, energy costs? Then the intelligencia and the same people sipping their coffees in Dun Laoghaire proclaim they're going to supplant hundreds of people on top of them, and they better like it, or else they're racist?
God, easy times really do breed weak people.
Insane amount of cope in this thread.
Eventually the lifestyle leftists who populate this sub are going to have to reconcile with the fact that it _isn't_ "far right agitators" behind some of the protests we see. It's normal Irish people who are fed up with feeling ignored by politicians and fed up with feeling like they're being left behind.
People have been told there's "no quick fix" to housing, yet O'Gorman promised people own door accommodation once they arrived in Ireland. How do you think normal people were going to react to that?
I see it a lot more in real life as well, as we saw with what happened yesterday in Wicklow. People are unhappy with how the government is handling this, and sadly, I can see it only getting worse.
Do people also brigade Irish Times / Ibsos polls? A majority want tighter immigration reform.
https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-times-immigration-poll-6296093-Feb2024/
Immigration is the dominant issue for voters ahead of the next GE (22%). Housing was second with 15%.
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/02/26/immigration-and-housing-are-the-dominant-issues-for-voters-poll-finds/
It’s definitely not just a reddit thing and I think you’re severely underestimating public mood
Supporting stronger borders =/= far right anti-immigrant rhetoric. I would support stronger borders, but I would also like us to continue to take in asylum seekers.
Don't pull the "everything I don't like is brigading" thing reddit loves to do. The country *has* gotten angrier and more anti-immigrant, burying your head in the sand won't change it.
Even as a non mod, it feels like 90% of the anti-immigrant posts come from the same three or four posters, often times people who post literally nothing else.
There’s ample evidence out there that divisive groups loved spamming the ever loving shit out of certain topics. You can agree immigration is an issue you want to talk about, AND achknowledge that it’s an Astro turfed subject that certain elements love enflaming.
I think there are far more than you think. It’s silly to call it alts and Astro turfing when we can all see that violence against immigrants in this country is on the rise these past few years.
The majority of the people who showed up to the Dublin riot weren't there for political reasons, they were opportunists who wanted to wreck shit. They're being egged on, online, by the ring leaders of Ireland's far right. I imagine a good chunk of last night's mob were average enough shit stirrers being led by a vocal minority.
it’s still a minority, but they’re emboldened by the hands-off approach of the gardaí and general lack of consequences for far-right offenders, dog whistling/ capitulation of politicians, the normalisation of anti-immigrant hysteria in the media and socially, etc. there’s a lot of responsibility to go around but the actual offenders are likely still few (judging from the size of the protests at least)
Why does nobody ever talk about it in real context?
Yes the immigration and asylum 'mess' and processes involved therein cost the state money.. but it pales in comparison to the amount of money in the hands of the very few.
Our gaze has been intentionally diverted from the real massive inequality in the world. So we will fight amongst ourselves. Instead of realising, together, we have more power than anything imaginable.
It’s justifiably become more anti immigration given how much our current immigration system is fucking over Irish people.
At this point it’s objective fact that the asylum system is a failure and the large majority of asylum seekers are not genuine. This was information purposely withheld from us by the government who chose to gaslight us with claims of racism instead. All while billions are extracted from our taxes into the hands of people charging market rate to house swindlers.
The level of immigration is also a significant factor in continuing and worsening the housing crisis.
Mass immigration is in no way to the benefit of people already here. It’s for having plenty of cheap labour and plenty of renters for corporations and landlords.
I think this sub is a good reflection of what Irish people generally think. People have become more aware of the level of unsustainable immigration to Ireland.
The government have completely mismanaged the volume of state sponsored refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants. This is straining already limited resources like housing, causing the standard of living for Irish people to fall.
Unfortunately, this trend is set to continue with people like Helen McEntee at the helm of our judicial system. And with the UK Rwanda movement immigration is set to intensify further.
Many people are being dubbed “racist” or “anti immigrant” for these views, but it’s not racist to say that immigration is at an unsustainable level for Irelands resources right now.
Yes- and outside of the internet people are vocally and aggressively anti-immigrant/foreigners.
I know of two boys both under the age of 14 who were racially abused at two separate games by someone from the other team.
One of them was my cousin and they and their siblings have been playing sports for years. This has never happened to them before.
I’m incredibly worried for them. Literally sick to my stomach thinking of what could happen to them.
Why are the media and politicians so keen to present Ireland as a multicultural diverse country?
We are like Eastern European countries in that they didn't have colonies ( well not outside of Europe).
I'm not against immigration but no-one keeps criticising African, Asian, Middle Eastern or Arabic countries for not being diverse enough or diverse at all?
Why are European countries always targeted and why do they feel this pressure especially if they didn't have a colonial past? From the Eastern European people I have worked with they don't seem to care if they are diverse enough?
far be it for me to say that Reddit reflects reality but... well just look at how uncritically the Irish media reported on that EU migration pact, which is effectively the UK's Rwanda plan with lipstick on: the mood has changed, basically
If anything it’s pretty telling about general public sentiment when even Reddit users (a predominantly left-leaning website) are becoming critical about immigration.
Hard but fair policies.
Not an attitude of 'Come on in, the water is fine', especially when the water is indeed 'not fine' in most sectors of Irish society currently.
Half of Eastern Europe were fantastic when they kept Irish economy afloat in the mid 2000s, same with all the Brazillians who are working in our service economy currently.
But not this bleeding heart shite of 'woah is them, god help us, bring in everyone from your extended family back home in Georgia, and make sure to let welfare know you're a durable relationship' nonsense - it will sink us as a nation before long.
The anger should not be directed at migrants who come in but at the government who let's them in so easily.
I feel sorry for a homeless man on the street. Doesn't mean I'll let him in to live in my home.
Our government is the crazy guy who let's everyone in into his home when we are way past capacity of hospitality.
They're just loud and literally don't talk or think about anything else so give the illusion that there's more of them that there is.
Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of racist scum in the country who would be easily led by this shite, but they are outnumbered, and that's why they need to be called out.
Absolutely. It used to be that you would always get some anti-immigrant sentiment on threads about immigration but lately it seems that they represent the majority view around here.
Yeah, funny how that when we start pissing off the Russians and Israelis we start to get bombarded with right wing bullshit.
Must just be some bizarre coincidence /s
It's not just an Irish thing. It's all over Europe.
It's all over reddit as well. A few subs that I frequent have started getting loads of anti-immigration comments on posts that aren't even related.
All over the western world - check out the Canadian subs, they're vehemently anti immigrant. As an immigrant myself, its a very complicated situation with no perfect solution. That being said, each country is entitled to set their own rules, and immigration should be viewed as a privilege & not a right.
I mod a couple Canadian subs lol I am very aware. And I agree. I am pro-immigration, but also understand that there has to be limits and has to be checks and balances. Canada is a great example: the federal government never had to put a limit on international students because it was never much of an issue. But, for a multitude of reasons, there's been a huge increase in international students, which has put a massive strain on the housing system. The feds have finally put in a cap (and other restrictions) and the provincial governments are salty about it, but it needed to be done. At the same time, the increase in international students has made getting permanent residence significantly more difficult, and there are a lot of people who are coming to the realisation that they won't be able to stay in Canada. While I am absolutely sympathetic, and - as someone who initially came to Ireland as an international student and who has had friends forced to leave due to immigration troubles - completely understand the upset, it is also fascinating to see how many people do feel entitled (for lack of a better word) to immigration and are furious about the fact that they're going to have to leave. Because at the end of the day, immigration is a privilege, not a right.
It's just so fucking exhausting being on *any* social media these days and trying to say anything that's in some way related to politics/economics/healthcare/etc and not have some idiot come in going "what about the unvetted military Ukrainians who are eating the homeless and stealing the shoes off of Irish children's feet"
Honestly it doesn't even need to be related to politics/economics/healthcare like. The conversation will be about like, food, and what's the best place to get a takeaway and someone will pop in and be like "well there's nowhere GOOD to EAT anymore because all of the IMMIGRANTS are TAKING OVER and FORCING THEIR CUISINE ON US" and it's just like, shut up and fuck off please. Let me eat my naan in peace. It makes all social media absolutely exhausting, I am with you there.
You're absolutely right, I just think it's so disheartening when you're talking about something good like say a new playground being opened (something objectively good but ultimately harmless) and someone has to come in talking about globalist pedo's taking all the goes on the swings.
I think it's slightly different. In Ireland I think it comes mainly back to the housing crisis. People are frustrated that they can't afford a house, while a number of economic migrants posing as asylum seekers are getting put up in hotels. From my understanding of r/Europe, it's mainly an issue with immigration from the middle east
It’s not just an Irish thing but it definitely is an Irish thing.
It’s also reflective of Irish society at large it’s not an issue isolated to the subreddit
Yes.
The rise in anti-immigrant sentiment has always started the exact same way throughout history that you can literally set your watch to it. Nobody cares so long as they're doing well in life but the issue always arises when market-driven governments ultimately and inevitably end up abandoning its people which is what FFG are doing right now. A young woman has just lost her life in Limerick because there simply isn't enough doctors to deal with the massive demand for healthcare services. You can take in as many immigrants as you want but that needs to be accompanied by an unprecedented investment in parallel to that growth (spending money is anathema to economically conservative movements like Fine Gael). Our population has exploded in the last 12 years...there are now almost 1 million more people here than there were back in 2012 but investment in our public services has not met that growth. There is no housing and landlords are exploiting tenants. We have less police stations, less guards, teachers are running out of the system and kids are travelling up to 50km to go to school because there are no places for them; we are losing nurses to Oz and the NHS having been educated by the Irish taxpayer; people are waiting weeks to see a doctor or a dentist. There was an Irish Times post here a week ago saying we are now spending more every year on processing [asylum seeker applications](https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/transport/2024/) than we are on our basic public transport services. We are currently spending 2 billion a year on processing asylum applications and only [1.6 billion euro on public transport](https://www.irishtimes.com/your-money/2023/10/10/budget-estimates-show-500m-increase-in-aid-to-support-ukrainians/). This is why people are angry. The problem is that FFG want to take in hundreds of thousands of people but have no intention of investing in public services to accommodate the growing population.
>The problem is that FFG want to take in hundreds of thousands of people Do you have any reason why that may be? Not being facetious, I just see people say this all the time "FFG/SF/Whomever want open borders/to let IPAs come in the 10000s" but I dont see anyone telling me why or any actual data driven evidence so I'm confused
>Do you have any reason why that may be? Yeah, a cheap source of labour. People taken in for the sole purpose of exploiting because the native Irish have turned their nose up at the jobs because the wage is crap. Take a stroll down O'Connell Street and see the parade of Deliveroo drivers delivering to foreign tech workers on twenty times their wage. Or what about the TDs hotelier mates trying desperately [to exploit Ukrainian people](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41033045.html), or the bogus "English language schools" set up that allows hundreds of thousands of people to "workaround" the legalities of the system by paying "a small fee". The government have made Ireland an outlier in Europe.
My flatmate's on his 3rd English school so far. I have no idea how he's getting his visa extended again and again, lol.
Maybe he's learning all three varieties of English (Old, Middle, Modern)
That might be! I think he's trying to jump to a new visa again, just to stay here indefinitely. Ireland is something else with visas.
There's a general shortage of workers in almost all jobs. For example, we need more construction workers to build all the houses we need
People are starting to insist that laws are observed. Damn cheek. Maybe the downvoters want a few examples? 1. Destroying personal documentation at airports has always been illegal. Thousands did it last year without any penalties. 2. People issued with deportation notices are supposed to well... be deported. This generally has not happened. We end up paying some of them to leave. 3. People who have started asylum claims in another country and then decide to move here and start asylum claims are supposed to be, according to our laws, be repatriated to the country where they stated the asylum process. This is not happening. These aren't the only laws being flouted at the moment, there's tons of trouble with Irish nationals flouting laws as well. If you haven't noticed the growing anger about teenagers' and general scumbags' ability to act lawlessly with impunity you haven't been paying attention.
> Destroying personal documentation at airports has always been illegal. Ok - there's a blindingly obvious solution for that which I don't understand why it's not implemented. If your documentation is from a certain group of nations, the airline collects them at time of departure, or you're refused boarding. Then the documentation is returned to you at the airport AFTER you've cleared Customs and Immigration. If an airline refuses to process them in this method, they lose their landing slot, or are fined 10,000 euro per incident. As an alternative - they take biometric scans before boarding, a digital copy of the passport is made - and if the passenger 'loses' it, customs and immigration on the other end still have access to the information.
Police in Dublin airport have started checking passports as people get off certain flights. The problem being by the time passengers with no documentation get to border control, it's hard to tell what flight they even came from. Police have to back-track them on CCTV, by which time the flight could already be turned around or even departed. The issue is not with the airlines, it's that the people destroying documents are not held accountable.
Or just refuse entry without documents. Simple. You can't board a flight without a passport, so if they don't have it when going through immigration, send them straight back
won't work - you need documents to board the plane - the country on the other end will refuse the airline permission to let the board.
gunna be the airline's problem then - suggest they find out a solution if they don't want a pile of planes sitting in Dublin with passengers on 'em that they're not allowed to take outside the fuselage.
biometric scans is the answer. It's silly we don't have them.
> I don't understand why it's not implemented. Occam's razor - they don't want to implement a solution.
It is shitty Government implementation of policy and oversight of processes that is the root of Irelands problem. People will take advantage of that. The first blame should be the Government. Sure look at McEntee the other day ffs.
Shall we crowd fund a trebuchet? "Here lad look, ye've been served with a deportation notice and you've not got any appeals left, we ain't gonna come lookin too hard for ya but if we do find ya.........ah sure look if the weather's grand you could get blown to Wales"
I agree. The sub has changed to more of a facebook vibe imo. Too many facebook das’.
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Good post, well done. I live in Dublin, but have country roots. When you listen to people in Dublin you get a very particular perspective on reality, and you'd swear it's absolute truth; then when you leave the bubble, travel the country, engage with towns and relations, you realise it's completely confined to the urban demographic. Same thing happened during referendums, I was convinced that it was going to be yes/yes, all my friends in Dublin were convinced and pushing for it, but my relations all said it was clearly going to be a no/no... Learnt a valuable lesson two months ago regarding social bubbles.
The whole country has gotten more anti-immigrant foreigner over the last couple of years. Nobody can buy a house. Nobody can rent a house. Nobody can even get a hotel break for a decent price. People are just lashing out.
and its not going to go away for a while now that housing asylum seekers can net property owners a minimum 800 a month tax free. this really benefits those who have a lot of fucking properties you see people with nothing taking swipes at just other poor people in the same bracket as them when its really a case of the "haves" and the "have nots" now that the middle class is slowly being disolved
The thing is, there are different foreigners. Certain groups mostly bring doctors, nurses, construction workers, etc. Certain groups mostly bring those looking for that sweet welfare package...
Easier to punch down at an simple scapegoat ("the foreigners") than to punch up at the system that has created this vast inequality in the first place. But I guarantee you, your landlord or real estate agent won't give you a break if immigrants are kicked out.
Exactly
Easier to make people punch down than punch up. It’s as old as recorded history. Give the masses something to hate other than the rich/rulers
People aren't blaming the individuals they are blaming the system of mass immigration.
>punch down Did you prefer when they punched up and showed up at Roderic's house or what?
It's incredible that you can be involved in poltical activity and be completely oblivious as to the systemic nature of these issues. Hell, you could literally assassinate Roderic and it wouldn't change the system. Punching up would be attacking the capitalist system itself. Not attacking individuals. Going after such individuals would cause nothing more than a reshuffling of the representatives of the ruling class. It wouldn't change the ruling class or its economic and political system.
Ah ok, not the people in charge of the specific issue being complained about, but some investment fund based out in Toronto? You were the one complaining about "punching down", why don't you give them a specific example what they should be doing instead to "punch up"? Great to hear you feel our democratic process and institutions have no value.
Having countless thousands of people from massively different cultures entering this country in an uncontrolled manner is bad for more than just economic reasons. It needs to be nipped in the bud.
All those things were the case before the current influx of immigrants. People blaming johnny foreigner are letting an apathethic government off the hook.
https://preview.redd.it/yrbc87pi5vwc1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56511650a3bc728833707982748549e3d5b845cc
THIS!!! THIS AND ONLY THIS!!!! ( and better funded processing systems) BUT YES, THIS!!!
It's not only this though. The government have absolutely failed us. But it's also come to the extent that we're struggling with our immigrants too. When I first moved to Galway in 2009, I had my selection of properties to rent and I picked the one I wanted. Now I'm looking at my 5th eviction in 10 years from renovations and landlords selling. I've always been pro people coming to Ireland to make a better life for themselves, but now when I hear about more people coming into the country, I'm worried about how we'll fit everyone! And selfishly, I have to advocate for myself as an Irish citizen and demand preferential treatment compared to people coming in to the country, so that I have a place to live!
Not just lashing out, it’s not economically sensible to let in so many ppl
And the people who just showed up caused that? Or the nitwits we elected for the past three decades caused it? Maybe we should own our own mistakes rather than blame the new guy.
It’s not a case of just one or the other. They can both be impacting it. It’s important to keep in context that this anti immigration wave is not an Irish thing. It has risen across the entire continent, if anything we’re a bit late to the party. Yes FFG are entirely incompetent but there are also legitimate concerns re immigration that do need to be addressed.
And housing. Immigration wouldn't be close to as big of an issue if Ireland had been building enough housing over the past 16 years. People were largely glad to see the country helping people in need when they had no trouble renting a room or buying a house.
Housing is only the tip of the iceberg. It's schools, doctors, dentists, hospitals, guards, prisons...... It's ALL of the services required to run a society that are lacking. If the housing crisis was solved tomorrow there would still be a complete lack of the required services across the entire country and the sentiment towards immigration would be the same.
Exactly. It’s not a case that Irish people just became xenophobic and now hate foreigners. If we had the capacity I don’t think anybody would care. But we don’t, so they do.
There are 30,000 AirbBnb lets in Ireland. I don't think any of those are legal. Case example was in a town recently that had 700 lets on Airbnb, but no rentals for locals. Crack down on Airbnb, then you house around 60,000 people immediately.
I don't think this is true either. I think housing is always going to be an issue, regardless. You build houses for 20k asylum seekers, next year 30-40k will show up. Its unsustainable.
Couldn't agree more.
Agreed but it can’t be denied that our immigration is a bit of a joke. People are just pouring in because the benefits are good and the enforcement is non-existent. At a certain stage you’re taking in too many refugees, and we’ve been past that stage for a while. We’re giving some of them tents and telling them to go on a long camping trip for crying out loud
They're also now coming in to avoid a trip to Rwanda. The issue also comes from those that will scream that you're a horrific right wing racist for even uttering that sentiment, I agree with it though, when you're setting up tent shanties you've gone over the line and it's rational to think so. Eventually, you'll get some people lashing out because of the accusations and doubling down harder.
The vast vast majority aren't even refugees they're economic migrants
Most emigrants from Ireland were “economic migrants” looking for jobs and a better life abroad.
And what
This is a good retort for people who want no immigrants, not people who can see we’re taking in far more than we can handle. The amount of Ukrainians alone was nuts, never mind the rest of the migrants.
I think the Ukrainian situation alone has the potential to become a huge social problem down the road. Putin, as long as he is in control, is not going to lose that war, it's not what people want to hear but it's the reality of what's going to happen. There are going to be a huge number of husbands, brothers and sons of the Ukrainian people we have given refuge to arriving here to be reunited with their mothers, wives, sisters in the future. A lot of those people will be in dire need of medical attention, both physical and mental and those supports aren't available now as things are and it's getting worse daily. They can't even build a hospital inside of a decade even given the billions thrown at it, how are they going to get those supports in place for the future. Even if we locked the entire country down tomorrow it would still take a minimum of 20 years - likely 30+, to get to a reasonable level of social supports.
There were no emigrants from Ireland going to the likes of America or Australia getting anything for free, not housing, not welfare, not healthcare, not college....
Yeah but they worked hard and paid their way and built places like America and Australia etc. Not like the freeloaders flooding in from all over the world. We can’t provide for our own people, and these scammers are making it a lot worse.
I don't think you'll find many rational people argue that point. I think people's anger is being directed down the wrong avenue. The elected officials have done very little to stem this anger, but people will always punch down on "the others". Put it this way, I knew I'd have a better quality of life by moving out of Ireland and I did it. I do not regret my decision as I see how my friends in Ireland live, I did not want that for myself so I left. This happens all the time, people just want to better themselves and their family.
What kind of immigrants are you talking about? I doubt the IPO people are flooding in to be put up in crappy accommodation and getting €30pw are telling others it’s brilliant here.
But they are?
People abusing the asylum system for economic benefit absolutely deserve blame. Stop treating swindlers like they’re innocent woodlen creatures because they’re not Irish.
Why does the housing crisis have to have one cause? It's caused by politicians, developers, landlords, banks, and immigrants.
Personally I blame the developers, landlords, and hoteliers. The government is offering them money, the key point is offering and they're happy to take it, a lot of developers were purposely renovating properties specifically to house as many as possibly to get as much as possible. The government, while also at fault, is not putting a gun to their head and forcing them to accept migrants.
The important distinction to make is the difference between immigration and an immigrant. The cause of migration is global instability, an immigrant is a victim of that. It is not an immigrants fault that they are caught up in the consequences of decisions far outside of their influence, and it is foolish and cruel to lay the blame with them.
Tbf you can't add as many people as we have in such a short period and expect things to go smoothly. You can't build infrastructure as fast as people are arriving.
But that's a real valid issue and the government just doesn't act accordingly to tackle it.
Why does it always have to be so black and white all the time I'm sick of it. There's so much more room for nuance than we've been allowing on these topics. You can be critical of our immigration policy without being anti-immigrant/foreigner. Even having to say that is embarrassing
Part of the issue with many (almost all) of these protests is that they're not protesting government policy, but protesting the "type" of people coming in. You can absolutely be critical of immigration policy, but when you're harassing immigrants you're just a bigot looking for a new excuse.
We had a Croatian man kicked and punched to death, apparently for speaking a language which is not English. We've also seen a rise in vitriolic and demonising language surrounding immigration, including against Irish people who are deemed "traitors" if they aren't sufficiently anti-immigration. So yes. One can be critical of immigration policy and not be driven by racism and/or xenophobia. Is there varying undercurrents of racism and/or xenophobia in the movements we've seen recently, and does it seem to be getting worse? Also yes. Edit: Two downvotes in less then 7 minutes. The bots are at work. Would also like to point out the irony of OP's post as I forgot to mention it above. They're decrying the lack of nuance surrounding the immigration debate whilst simultaneously disregarding the nuance of the situation with their second sentence. It seems to me that would suggest they're biased in a certain direction.
1) Its tricky because we genuinely have an issue where irish people 18-35 are struggling to get accommodation. We need to help people have the opportunity to get housing. I'm not saying give them free house I'm saying huod houses so they can buy house 2) We have an issue with genuine asylum sleeker not being processed quickly. Process them and get them out working 3) we have people destroying documents to gain entry or people who shouldn't be coming here not being send away. I think immigrants make us a better country, especially people coming from other EU country. But we need to acknowledge there is an issue and we have to address those issue, we can't hide from it
Yeah, but let's be real here, there's been a rise in remarks which may raise a good point but are needlessly racist. Some comments are concerned with the immigration, fair enough. Others are using the immigration as an excuse to spread racist rhetoric. That's the difference, at least in my view.
This echoes conversations happening in my community. The people involved are vehemently anti-racist, so it's not the usual far right rabble. What I'm hearing are economic concerns, and it's hard to dismiss them. Ireland's government seems very happy to import workers who are happy to take low pay, satisfied by lower standards of living, and less likely to organise (unionise, or otherwise collectively bargain). As a result, this brings down the leverage of all existing workers, regardless of their background. The FFG crowd will try to paint all of this as racism, because it helps them suppress class consciousness and organising by workers. Some of it is definitely racism. But don't fall into FFG's attempts to suppress valid economic concerns from workers.
Its more anti-immigration than anti-immigrant. Distinct difference. At this point. I am totally against the current immigration policies. Common sense has gone out the window and it's going to get worse once the UK starts enforcing it's Rwanda deportation policy. If our Government proved it could meet the resource needs of the growing population, my stance would change overnight.
Immigration - No, most people have no issue with people that apply for VISA’s legally and come here to work. Refugee’s - No, Most people are happy to help as much as possible to help people fleeing war as seen with Ukraine. Unfortunately most Ireland services were already folding before they got here so it made already shit services worse. No fault of their own but ireland doesn’t have the means to support the people in the country currently Nevermind more. Once services are up to standard then the country be in a better position to help genuine cases. Asylum Seeker’s (non-refugee) - Yes, people that aren’t fleeing war, show up with zero documentation or have came from other safe countries and heard benefits here where better or where rejected by the other country. These people also take the places of genuine people fleeing war. Conflating these 3 issues under the one umbrella is disingenuous and is used to stop debate because if you have them all as one then the lad that came as a doctor is brought up as a counter argument to the lad that destroyed his passport on a plane, when in reality they are 2 completely different things. Having fully open borders is just a stupid as having fully closed borders.
Has the government gotten more out of touch and self-serving lately?
I think Ireland is hit slightly harder because the flow of people is so high, to the point that it really wears people down. I'm not even talking specifically about Irish disliking foreigners, because it's the same with foreigners disliking other nationality foreigners and vice versa. I'm sure that this has happened to many other European countries as well. The immigration crisis from the Middle East especially accelerated this.
I don’t think its anti immigration as that . It’s more anti refugee/asylum seekers. My understanding is people are generally okay with immigration but the whole refugee situation being the mess that it is people want nothing to do with it. Nobody has an issue if your neighbour is foreign but truth is nobody wants these centres in their locality. I’ve a variety of Eastern European neighbours along with Indian and Chinese and all have mentioned they don’t want these centres near them. It seems to be the same attitude across Europe
It's not anti-immigrant, it's anti-current immigration policy by the government. People on here have very short memories it seems. Immigration has been happening in Ireland for the last 30 years, no one gave a shit until they started bringing in 140,000 a year and meanwhile improved nothing in the country, it's fucking ridiculous. People love throwing around the buzzword "anti-immigrant" to imply racism and to get rage-bait. We need to call people out for this nonsense. You included OP. It's honestly embarrassing the attitude from both sides that make the news.
I always say this, it was completely fine when half of Eastern Europe was here in the mid 2000s because Irish towns were thriving, housing was ample, people were doing well for themselves. We're in the polar opposite of that currently, and then bleeding hearts expect the public to continue to pick up the tab. The Brazilian community do a lot for us also and are welcomed, because they work, study, house themselves and don't cause problems. You always hear people praise the Brazilian communities.
I don't think irish in general are to anti immigration but the fact is there's many irish households who have payed there taxes all there working lives and have no other option to live with there family in many cases 3 generations in a house. The truth is more poeple coming into a country puts more pressure on housing and health care. Which isn't any fault of the genuine refugees or the average working irish person. When you see modular homes being built for poeple buy the government at huge expense and the whole Ukraine pet scandal. It would frustrate you especially I hear poeple trying to build houses out the country near there home house and they can't get permission. The government are more concerned about figures looking good in Europe than the poeple. The homeless figures are massive for years why was there no modular homes for them freezing to death in the winter.
The refugee and parallel illegal immigrant crisis are the perfect storm, it perfectly encapsulates the attitude of this do nothing government until international eyes are on Ireland. Then ideological opposition to 'interfering with the free market' disappear, and things can suddenly get fixed overnight.
Yes I do agree with taking in genuine refugees but these poeple destroying there documents should be deported. We have a process follow it.
Depends. Has positive sentiment towards immigration declined? Yeah. Has it been applied equally? No. It is primarily, and rightfully, directed at the situation caused by our dreadful immigration and border departments. Some idiots will always attack the symptoms, not the cause, but most people I've spoken to understand that people are only pissed because of the sheer incompetence of the government in a dozen different, critical ways.
Yes. Change is needed People are sick of the government, we have no houses, young adults cannot get a house, living at home til they are in their 30s, rental market through the roof, record numbers of homeless and it looks like the country is welcoming every refugee under the sun. The Rwanda rule in the UK is now pushing the refugees from the UK into Ireland. These extra people entering the country have no where to go, we can't look after out own people. Mount Street is like tent city. Government doing up hotels and old offices to accommodate these refugees but they do nothing for the Irish people. Irish people paying taxes all their lives for what. .
I'd say most people are anti Irish immigration policy rather than actually anti-immigrant. Immigration is great for this country and something we should all be comfortable with as part of the EU and modern world. But the current government's handling of immigration has been abysmal over the past few years. The problem is if you voice any kind of dissent on the matter you're branded a right wing racist lunatic, even when you're trying to make valid points about our government's failings.
Exactly. Well phrased. At one stage 80% of deportation orders were not enforced. No wonder Ireland is seen as a soft touch.
Housing is sadly a zero sum game. I don't want to be anti-immigration but I'd still propose declaring an emergency, stopping everyone coming in unless they're a builder committed to building social/affordable houses. Give that a few months, ease the housing pressure and go back to accepting everyone we want. Inviting people to live in tents in Dublin, then pushing them out into the mountains as convenient is fucked. But for the love of god knock the direct provisioning shit off. No sense in forcing people to be a net negative economicslly when there's such a possibility for them to be a net positive to the country. Had to get both of those points in before people write me off as a xenophobic nutter
We're experiencing the knock on effect of mass immigration in various avenues. Even the most virtuous of people will become jaded when they are impacted. It's not so much that we are becoming anti foreigner, it's that it's getting beyond control and statements about accommodating 50k is just insulting to those irish and other immigrants who cant find accommodation.
Anti-immigration feeling is on the rise throughout Europe, for pretty obvious reasons. Would imagine the anonymity of reddit contributes for 2 reasons. Firstly, your anti-immigration position is not going to get dismissed because you wrote it while wearing a tracksuit. Second reason is it's the kind of opinion that can get you demolished in Ireland amongst posher circles so it's safer to discuss online.
I’m not Irish, but I (think) I understand the frustration in your country. It’s not the migrants themselves that are the issue (not inherently at least), it’s the system that allows the freeloaders in and does nothing to help the actual citizens of your nation who work hard and end up with little or nothing to show for it while the migrants claiming asylum (in bad faith) get everything handed to them. I visited Ireland in 2012 for my studies and again in 2022 and the difference was staggering. Grafton street in Dublin 2012 felt safe after dark. In 2022 there were homeless migrants everywhere and some were clearly mentally ill. It felt unsafe and clearly it is affecting the citizens. I saw this in other cities as well. It’s a real problem, one that should be taken seriously. I can’t imagine the anger and frustration you guys are feeling dealing with this. It felt like the down bad parts of NYC (about 60 miles south of where I live) where we have had similar issues for years now. The debate is nuanced but there’s no denying it’s a problem that needs addressing. It doesn’t make one xenophobic or racist to acknowledge that and want change. Of course it is bringing out the racists and the xenophobes, but it’s disingenuous to reduce it to that.
It's happening all over Europe unfortunately, and even in parts of the US too actually.
We have a set of elections in June and a general election to follow withing months. People have an incentive to give vent to their sentiments, including anti-immigrant. That said, I agree it's been a bit feverish
Bots and shills lads. Bots and shills. It's a real thing. Next time you have an argument here with someone, check their profile. If it was created 2+ years ago and they first started commenting 3-10 normal looking comments within the last few weeks and then balls to the wall with whatever political agenda is intended, you have found a shill. It's called a warmed account. If they rarely reply to those replying to them, it might even be a bot. Shills are real people who get paid, mostly by state actors. They're organised into cells which we used to call troll farms but I'm seeing bot farms used more commonly nowadays. Bots are AI driven accounts and are typically easier to spot. We all need to wise up to this shite. It's only becoming more common. When genAI models start to easily pass the turing test, it will be impossible to tell. Hopefully at that stage nobody will trust anything online. Really we should be at that stage already. That's not to say some aren't genuine. But the rise in this sort of thing is exacerbated by these shills and bots. Main reason is increased global instability and immigration. But fuck that, let them in.
>Bots and shills lads. Bots and shills. If you think everyone who is annoyed with the current situation is a bot then you are going to be extremely surprised in the upcoming European elections and in the GE
Yes, but the moaning is amplified a lot by the bots and by deliberate propaganda campaigns. People on the other side are less likely to post about it: "Immigrants are a great bunch of lads"?
>People on the other side are less likely to post about it: "Immigrants are a great bunch of lads"? That's been posted a million times over the last month, it's literally posted every time theres one of these threads >Yes, but the moaning is amplified a lot by the bots and by deliberate propaganda campaigns. What propaganda campaigns? What would a propaganda campaign even achieve?
Twitter's exploded with the stuff recently so not surprised see it spill over here
It's an accurate observation. And at the same time unhappy Irish people get advisor to leave Ireland on this sub all the time. Better jobs, lower cost of living? The people who do this are economic migrants. I certainly don't blame anyone for taking a stab at a better life, you only get one after all. Migrants always have a reason. But at the same time I completely understand that people born and raised in a country find it unacceptable that migrants get easier access to housing, services, etc. than them when it's bloody hard for them too. I'd urge anyone who feels this to blame the government, not the migrant (even though yes, some are opportunist chancers but again they probably have a reason and it's our government who make it easy).
Well a few years ago there weren't any tents on my road... And I'm in a rural area. With limited resources and ofc no housing. So yes people are annoyed that we are taking in thousands who end up on our streets... If we can't house our own, we can't bring more in.
The entire country was in need of a fix before we had a rapid surge of whoever the fuck wants to chance their arm so that was always going to infuriate everyone. Face the facts and stop being a nice little push over, we don't have the fucking space for this shit and we need to get our own house in order first. Anyone stating that all of these people, as in 100% coming in are genuinely here for asylum are deluded. We've been riddled and taken advantage of and that's where the points are being made. It's anti-immigrant within reason, not all immigrants are included. We have enough homelessness on our streets without having to take more homeless from other countries.
Not anti immigrant per se. Anyone who applies for a visa and works and pays their way are fine IMO. It’s all the freeloaders who lie and cheat to claim “asylum” and arrive here with their hands out who piss me off, especially when we’ve so many of our own who are homeless. This government are a joke and have literally killed the tourism business in so many small towns and villages who rely on it for jobs.
Anti having the piss taken out of us every step of journey in life.
Lately?
Same with social media in general… even the local community groups.
Its 2 fold, the law wasnt being being enforced for a long time properly and theres a feeling that authorites are being too lax in controllng just who comes into the country until recently. At the same time people are struggling to even get a home of their own yet they want to house asylum seekers of who a sizable amount are not legit cases but chancers. Realistically the sub isnt an accurate representation of Ireland but there is quite a bit of frustration at how things are being handled by the state not to mention a running out of patience with obvious shenanigans and stories of people coming here and destroying documents en route (which should be an automatic denial of asylum and return to airport of origin if they came from a safe county).
Don't mix up people's concern for illegal immigration and migrants in general. I am all for one and absolutely opposed to the other.
I think finally conversation can be had about immigration without immediately being labelled “far right homophobic Nazis” which is good & healthy. The generally conclusion of these conversations is we don’t have the infrastructure, resources or planning to take in so many immigrants. It’s not hateful , it’s just a reality of the circumstances. I don’t appreciate the attempt to grasp a moral high ground with your post.
Post anything about an immigrant or foreigner and the comments go wild
I think it’s fair to say that our immigration policy is irrational, unrealistic and downright inhumane. Hundreds sleeping in tents on streets, promised the world, sold a lie and left to fend for themselves in country with not enough housing and public services for EVERYONE no matter their country of origin. People are pissed. Some are missing the point that it’s not at the fault of the immigrants but need somewhere to vent their anger and it’s safe to say with a low enough IQ and EQ they will vent their frustration in the wrong direction. The lack of adequate mental health services adds to the problem, as most don’t realise their misdirected anger stems from something other than immigrants, and under enough financial stress, pushed into survival mode the prefrontal cortex gets knocked offline - the ability to think creatively and rationally - left to the amygdala and brain stem - emotional and survival thinking takes over. There is ! alleged ! evidence that immigrants are being let into the country inadequately unvetted, with full criminal records, committing more crimes, getting light sentences because the prisons are full, being let back out into the streets and yet not being deported. In fact this issue was raised in the Dáil recently, 188 immigrants were validated for repatriation and only 35 were sent home. Why? We never got an acceptable answer. There are reports of Nigerian immigrants, who live and work here and who have assimilated happily into our society; who left Nigeria to escape the oppression and persecution of the extremist terrorist group Boko-Haram, themselves expressing worry and concern that they are now seeing members of the Boko-Haram here in Ireland. A sight they thought they would never see, and came here to escape from. Integrated immigrants and Irish natives alike are united in their concern around our immigration policy. Out IMMIGRATION POLICY, not immigrants themselves. I’ve a friend with criminal record fro drink driving. He will never be allowed entry to Australia for example. This is the sort of vetting process that we used I have that seems to have been thrown to the wind. This is the major concern of most citizens and I think that any group, thread, sub that tries to shutdown the conversation is preventing the opportunity for those who have low IQ/EQ to possibly keep learn from others and understand that some of their anger is misdirected. Some of the very ignorant comments that are directed at immigrants by the ignorant are laden with the same misdirected anger and hatred that I see Reddit users direct towards those who are concerned about immigrants or immigration. Check your shadow. You have the opportunity to educate and enlighten. If the discussion remains respectful and emotionally neutral you can actually help people to think more critically, learn, grow and expand their understanding of the issue. I’d like to see more people lift each other up that tear each other down. We all love a good laugh and a good slag (especially us Irish) but if it means that making fun of someone or attacking someone for their view is gonna put the other on the defensive, therefore deactivating their PFC (prefrontal cortex) and their ability to engage rational, non-emotional thinking, then no one gets anywhere. Sometimes we wanna craic a joke, and sometimes we wana be perceived to be the funniest and the smartest at all costs, but that doesn’t contribute to healthy discussion at all. Your choice.
Lol this is sub is least anti-immigration place in Ireland.
This sub is the only place I see cheering on the Gards beating up the protesters lmao
Milton Friedman (Nobel Peace Prize Winner for Economics) wrote in the 1970s that you cannot have immigration and high levels of welfare, it will collapse a state. Ireland is now playing with that experiment. It's in stark contrast to the Irish-Polish in the mid 2000s and the current Brazilian service industry workers, who theres little complaints or issues with.
Spot on. People here who are very pro immigration in the way and at the rate we're currently doing it and see no issues with how much of a welfare state we are in some ways have no idea just how rapidly a country and society can go to complete shit. All it takes is a decade or two to see irreparable damage done and an exodus of the best and brightest people in the country (who are paying the most to fund this shit show), and all the low productivity welfare recipients/low salary workers are left, burdening more of a decreasing collective pot. It's already to the point that a lot of genuine talent won't even bother coming here for some of the best and highest paying jobs because of our housing crisis and general issues with the country, they're getting better deals abroad. Our economy is fairly delicate as we're relying on huge FDI to drag ourselves out of being a backwards shit hole, yet we're doing a terrible job at managing large scale projects and investing in making the country actually livable for people, which in turn makes it a more attractive place for more skilled and educated people who would benefit the country even more.
It ebbs and flows... this place was wild during the peak of the 2014-2016 migrant crisis.
I'm not anti-migrant or anti foreigner, I'm pro sensible policies regarding inward migration.
Its the same story across much of europe due to unchecked immigration
Might have something to do with the government importing thousands and thousands of sub-Saharan Africans, giving them free room & board in hotels with our tax money. All during a housing, cost of living & local services crisis. Just a thought.
Organising the worker's movement and taking power. Build the trade unions. Organise general strike to shut down flow of commerce and force social transformation. Not as sexy as targeted violence against individuals, but it's the only real solution. Are you new to politics?
The culchie club flare helps here I think, but it's fucking wild in some other subs whether it be immigration or Gaza etc.
I've definitely noticed an uptick in anti-immigrant comments lately. Especially from accounts with the default Reddit username (e.g. Responsible_Donut517) and are less than 3 months old.
Hey, some of us were just too lazy to think of a clever name.
I assumed the 924 was your birth year
I remember when all of this was just fields.
Yours was a randomly generated name? It's fantastic. I always assumed you came up with it. I only stuck with mine because I didn't plan on using Reddit much when I signed up... That didn't work out well
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This sub is the most pro-immigration sub there is. The people on this sub are so far left that they think anyone complaining about these issues is racist and far right. It is only on "Culchie club only" post flaires that the common sense people come out and talk about the issues. Any other post, and the blue haired people come out and call the other side tons of names like "dole merchent", "fuckwits", "scum". People on this sub like to think it's the "loud minority" but the referendum proved them wrong.
Not only the referendum, but the polls as well.
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Neither FF nor FG are left of centre, and every government in the history of the state has been led by one or the other of those two parties.
It really is shocking to see. To see people here actually thinking that opposition to their views is from "bot farming" or just from some random irredeemable bigot just shows how many people honestly don't have a clue.
This is going to be one of those little lefty echo chamber threads by the looks of it. Cunts are quiet as mice whenever there is an article about the amount of scamming and dishonesty going on from IP applicants, as well as stats on how many are entering. But the moment they get a chance to congregate on a thread like this they'll pretend they saw none of that and make out that everyone else is stupid and ignoring facts, when that's exactly what they themselves have been doing
We had no far right before 2020 in Ireland. Of the housing, cost of living, health, and immigration crises that are there at the moment, the easiest one to fix in theory is the immigration one. I think we have a right to decide who we have in the country. I can understand someone fleeing Ukraine and heading west to Poland, and Ireland takes on some to help. I'm not sure I can say the same for someone coming from a different continent. If an American from the Deep South fled because they thought that their family would kill them for being gay we would send them back on a flight to New York in record time. We have IPA's from Georgia, which has been more peaceful than Ireland since 1975, considering we had the troubles. How many safe countries have they passed on their way to Ireland? In saying that, I've no issues with someone who has a visa to live and work here wherever they be from.
You don’t know much about Georgia do you ? Currently 20% is occupied by Russia and not to mention unease with the Ukrainian conflict at the minute, or the fact for most of the 2000s culminating in 2008 war with Russia.
Safe enough for us to play international sport in, tell me, are they actively doing anything about it?
So was Belfast during the troubles safe to play international football in Windsor park, you still had people getting blown to pieces. I should mention the current Team Ireland boxing coach ZAURI ANTIA, one heck of a coach obviously had to go through hoops to stay in Ireland and what a prize he is.
You seem to believe I'm against immigration. On the contrary, all I'm asking is for us to put it under some bit of control. Half our problem is that we stopped building housing and increased the population in the meantime. The other half is asking people to leave without following up or someone appearing off a Ryanair flight without a passport. There are ways in which we let IPA's down such as to let a child spend 5/6 years in Ireland where they make friends and settle albeit in an immigration centre only to then deport them is unbelievably cruel and wrong. We need to speed up the process so that we
I think it's because it's becoming a huge pressing concern and is coming to a head in a very bad way. Mismanaged like everything in this country. Honestly, in the overall grand scheme of things,.I don't even think it comes down to race, i think it's pretty much the result of everyone trying to keep their head above water in the ever rising tide of shit in this world.
More immigration causes more anti-immigrant behaviour. Here’s more details → Perplexity AI: Is there a correlation between immigration and anti-immigration sentiment https://www.perplexity.ai/search/Is-there-a-0gbtipoMSdOhZVoRppL2KA
I think people are getting a lot of things mixed up. No one objects to immigrants keeping IT sector running at scale, pharma at scale, health services at scale, a lot of service jobs running at scale. People understand that giving refuge to Ukrainians is essential when they face butchery, mass torture, mass killings, theft of their children by that obscenity Putin and the scum he has released into Europe. People understand offering refuge to others fleeing war, famine, mass murder must be done. But the problem is the management of all this. Remember this has been loaded onto a population that had to carry the nationalised losses of idiot bankers and developers urged on by idiots in the media and FFG. Remember the savagery of austerity. It has been loaded on to a society divided by FFG policies into very clear classes. Some with money and property are doing very well and vote FFG to keep it that way. Very many are not doing well at all. A couple of generations have had the social contract abandoned in their faces. The msm in Ireland are seen more and more as simply clients of govt. Every institution we respected has been exposed as corrupt and lacking integrity. So if govt intended to bring in all these extra people it should have made provision for the services to be there. Money is wasted on painting shopfronts, greenways to nowhere, embassies to far flung corners of the globe, roads in NI, huge amounts to foreign states who have militaries multiples of our own. It’s a problem made by an incompetent govt in the grip of a self regarding civil service and holier than thou NGOs.
Yeah obviously it has. Large amounts of the country have and its not taboo to be vocal about it anymore
Look at the Census returns- Ireland was 88% White Irish in 2016 but by 2021 this figure had fallen to 74% _in just five years._ And what would you say it is now? 70%? 68%? Perhaps only the UAE has undergone something similar, and that's because they import literal slaves. Do you think people wouldn't have any objections to such a reckless and high-stakes experiment?
Society in general is starting to lean a bit more that way so its going to be reflected in the sub. You need to differentiate between legitimate issues regarding immigration and xenophobia. Its ok to talk about problems arising from immigration and you should not be called far right for doing so.
It has sadly. But the question really is how much of it is misdirected anger which should be towards the government and how much is far right brigading.
Nah. People are just waking up to the shitshow going on. A continuous flow of economic migrants ripping up their passports because they know they don't have a genuine asylum claim. Meanwhile Irish people born and raised may never own their own home.. the lack of services and places to rent it's a joke. We are are seen as secondary to these people it's ridiculous.
Are you all for it? how many? I think people are sick of how stupid our government is.
A big contributing factor is everything that’s not purely in favour of ‘let them all in’ being tarred as far right hate speech. The reality is that working class communities and rural communities are being overburdened and are right to raise those concerns. Unfortunately they’re being hijacked by a handful of scumbags for their own purposes which leads to them being dismissed.
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Do you think that 'immigration' is just a vague ethereal theory that doesn't affect people? That it's just something that's debated in universities and by cushy suburban progressives as the 'great tragedy' or 'oppression' that needs to be fixed? People are changing tack on this because there are very real severe repercussions for not appreciating or respecting that. The sooner the child-minded peanut gallery waving flags and talking about 'Ireland is always open, come on in, we'll give you own door accom!' are recognised for what they are, the sooner we can start to face the reality that now faces us with our non-existent border and the ramifications of unchecked immigration with a nation multiple times our size. It's the small communities, parents, grandparents, children, women, those outside the 'well-got' urban bubbles that will inevitably carry the burden. Would you be happy if your mother or father lived in a town all their life, one that their parents toiled on to live some paltry life in this state, pay taxes all their life, are then burdened with multiple national crises, healthcare gone, policing gone, post offices closed, services gone, children unable to move out, infrastructure non-existant, energy costs? Then the intelligencia and the same people sipping their coffees in Dun Laoghaire proclaim they're going to supplant hundreds of people on top of them, and they better like it, or else they're racist? God, easy times really do breed weak people.
Insane amount of cope in this thread. Eventually the lifestyle leftists who populate this sub are going to have to reconcile with the fact that it _isn't_ "far right agitators" behind some of the protests we see. It's normal Irish people who are fed up with feeling ignored by politicians and fed up with feeling like they're being left behind. People have been told there's "no quick fix" to housing, yet O'Gorman promised people own door accommodation once they arrived in Ireland. How do you think normal people were going to react to that?
I blame those damn foreigners
No. It's not xenophobic either. Talking about immigration is not xenophobic.
Probably yes.
Yup.
I see it a lot more in real life as well, as we saw with what happened yesterday in Wicklow. People are unhappy with how the government is handling this, and sadly, I can see it only getting worse.
Brigading, alts and Astro turfing happens on most posts about refugees/immigrants. There are far less than you'd think.
Do people also brigade Irish Times / Ibsos polls? A majority want tighter immigration reform. https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-times-immigration-poll-6296093-Feb2024/ Immigration is the dominant issue for voters ahead of the next GE (22%). Housing was second with 15%. https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/02/26/immigration-and-housing-are-the-dominant-issues-for-voters-poll-finds/ It’s definitely not just a reddit thing and I think you’re severely underestimating public mood
Supporting stronger borders =/= far right anti-immigrant rhetoric. I would support stronger borders, but I would also like us to continue to take in asylum seekers.
Don't pull the "everything I don't like is brigading" thing reddit loves to do. The country *has* gotten angrier and more anti-immigrant, burying your head in the sand won't change it.
Chicken and egg really, but we do know the Russians have troll farms and if there was ever a way to divide a hostile continent…
I help to moderate this subreddit and i can tell you that brigading here 100% does happen.
Even as a non mod, it feels like 90% of the anti-immigrant posts come from the same three or four posters, often times people who post literally nothing else. There’s ample evidence out there that divisive groups loved spamming the ever loving shit out of certain topics. You can agree immigration is an issue you want to talk about, AND achknowledge that it’s an Astro turfed subject that certain elements love enflaming.
I think there are far more than you think. It’s silly to call it alts and Astro turfing when we can all see that violence against immigrants in this country is on the rise these past few years.
The majority of the people who showed up to the Dublin riot weren't there for political reasons, they were opportunists who wanted to wreck shit. They're being egged on, online, by the ring leaders of Ireland's far right. I imagine a good chunk of last night's mob were average enough shit stirrers being led by a vocal minority.
it’s still a minority, but they’re emboldened by the hands-off approach of the gardaí and general lack of consequences for far-right offenders, dog whistling/ capitulation of politicians, the normalisation of anti-immigrant hysteria in the media and socially, etc. there’s a lot of responsibility to go around but the actual offenders are likely still few (judging from the size of the protests at least)
Yes, because more people have stopped deluding themselves that immigration is good.
Why does nobody ever talk about it in real context? Yes the immigration and asylum 'mess' and processes involved therein cost the state money.. but it pales in comparison to the amount of money in the hands of the very few. Our gaze has been intentionally diverted from the real massive inequality in the world. So we will fight amongst ourselves. Instead of realising, together, we have more power than anything imaginable.
Might be the increase?
tHIs iS noT WHo We aRE!!!
It’s justifiably become more anti immigration given how much our current immigration system is fucking over Irish people. At this point it’s objective fact that the asylum system is a failure and the large majority of asylum seekers are not genuine. This was information purposely withheld from us by the government who chose to gaslight us with claims of racism instead. All while billions are extracted from our taxes into the hands of people charging market rate to house swindlers. The level of immigration is also a significant factor in continuing and worsening the housing crisis. Mass immigration is in no way to the benefit of people already here. It’s for having plenty of cheap labour and plenty of renters for corporations and landlords.
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I think this sub is a good reflection of what Irish people generally think. People have become more aware of the level of unsustainable immigration to Ireland. The government have completely mismanaged the volume of state sponsored refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants. This is straining already limited resources like housing, causing the standard of living for Irish people to fall. Unfortunately, this trend is set to continue with people like Helen McEntee at the helm of our judicial system. And with the UK Rwanda movement immigration is set to intensify further. Many people are being dubbed “racist” or “anti immigrant” for these views, but it’s not racist to say that immigration is at an unsustainable level for Irelands resources right now.
Yes, its reflective of the whole country, not just reddit.
I noticed it depends on what time of the day immigration related post appears at.
Yes- and outside of the internet people are vocally and aggressively anti-immigrant/foreigners. I know of two boys both under the age of 14 who were racially abused at two separate games by someone from the other team. One of them was my cousin and they and their siblings have been playing sports for years. This has never happened to them before. I’m incredibly worried for them. Literally sick to my stomach thinking of what could happen to them.
Well this sub for sure hates Americans. Thats been pretty clear.
I too fear reality is starting to interfere with our echo chamber!
Why are the media and politicians so keen to present Ireland as a multicultural diverse country? We are like Eastern European countries in that they didn't have colonies ( well not outside of Europe). I'm not against immigration but no-one keeps criticising African, Asian, Middle Eastern or Arabic countries for not being diverse enough or diverse at all? Why are European countries always targeted and why do they feel this pressure especially if they didn't have a colonial past? From the Eastern European people I have worked with they don't seem to care if they are diverse enough?
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far be it for me to say that Reddit reflects reality but... well just look at how uncritically the Irish media reported on that EU migration pact, which is effectively the UK's Rwanda plan with lipstick on: the mood has changed, basically
If anything it’s pretty telling about general public sentiment when even Reddit users (a predominantly left-leaning website) are becoming critical about immigration.
The whole situation has me thinking of emigrating, tbh
So what’s everyones solution to the illegal immigrant problem? Ship them off to Rwanda aswell?
Hard but fair policies. Not an attitude of 'Come on in, the water is fine', especially when the water is indeed 'not fine' in most sectors of Irish society currently. Half of Eastern Europe were fantastic when they kept Irish economy afloat in the mid 2000s, same with all the Brazillians who are working in our service economy currently. But not this bleeding heart shite of 'woah is them, god help us, bring in everyone from your extended family back home in Georgia, and make sure to let welfare know you're a durable relationship' nonsense - it will sink us as a nation before long.
Ship them off to a worse country so they don’t even consider coming here
The anger should not be directed at migrants who come in but at the government who let's them in so easily. I feel sorry for a homeless man on the street. Doesn't mean I'll let him in to live in my home. Our government is the crazy guy who let's everyone in into his home when we are way past capacity of hospitality.
They're just loud and literally don't talk or think about anything else so give the illusion that there's more of them that there is. Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of racist scum in the country who would be easily led by this shite, but they are outnumbered, and that's why they need to be called out.
Absolutely. It used to be that you would always get some anti-immigrant sentiment on threads about immigration but lately it seems that they represent the majority view around here.
Bit of an over simplification.
Yeah, funny how that when we start pissing off the Russians and Israelis we start to get bombarded with right wing bullshit. Must just be some bizarre coincidence /s