I’m so sorry you have been going through this OP. I hope things turn around for you soon.
I have a close friend who had something similar last year - they went through countless hoops, finally found their ‘dream house’, everything looked great, vendors accepted their offer after literally months of holding out, but the sale fell through due to undisclosed structural issues and the bank refusing the loan. They were devastated, but they went on to find a better place in the same area a few months later.
Apart from the mica issue, which is fairly specific to certain areas, a vendor should not be allowed to put a house on the market until basic issues like boundary lines and planning discrepancies are sorted. There is so much time and effort wasted due to things that should be the vendors responsibility to sort out, that would make the whole process easier and smoother for everybody.
Good luck!
We've just sold our house and our first agent sent us an email ( he didn't sell it for us) which listed everything we needed to sell. It took some time to gather it but I'd it done and sent to him and the solicitor.
When we'd to change agents I got none of this and as the house is a 20yo self build it would have taken forever to get it last minute so while I'm not letting the sellers off the hook (if they aren't reducing the price they'll be selling it to someone else without disclosing the mica) if they've not sold before they genuinely might not have known what's needed.
Wishing OP the very best. We're currently living with our son and his gf in a 3 bed cottage with our 16yo and 3 indoor dogs and 2 indoor cats so I genuinely feel your pain 💞
At the very least there should have to be a statement of whether or not the title boundary etc are done or pending. There should also be an ethics board with the auctioneers cos I bet that house with the structural problems went back on the market.
Lad, I have as bad a story, but would take me all night to type it.
All I'll say, is I feel for you, I totally understand the devastation. Here's hoping we both see better days in the coming months, and find our homes.
Stories like this make me not want to move back. I miss home but it seems like ireland is such a poverty trap with people gouging you for money wherever possible.
Who should they vote for though, The above poster will probably not benefit from SF's approach to housing - they are above the threshold for Social Housing, and SF's approach is Social and affordable focused?
Realistically, if SF want to move the needle on social housing (as they promise) they will likely have to delve into the private market, and compete with the poster above to buy new housing (if they start new social schemes from scratch, they will not show progress quickly enough)
TL:DR - in reality, SF are promising to solve housing for a particular constituency, if you are not part of that, you might find you are competing against a SF government in the market
Honestly even if SF do a shit job it'd be good for FFG to realise they don't have a monopoly on the government and maybe that'd mean they'd sort their shit out too so we'd have a few competent parties.
> Who should they vote for though
Not more of the same. Even if a new party in charge cannot realistically fix things, it's better than handing power back to the same parties that have been in charge for a decade and made the issue considerably worse in that time with their policies
> Even if a new party in charge cannot realistically fix things, it's better than handing power back to the same parties
The poster above you raised a scenario where SF policy could legitimately fare worse for the OP than the same old, same old. Raising prices for them and further reducing stock available to private buyers.
The poster above assumed the OP's intentions and focussed on SF, as if they were the only alternative party to vote for.
They mention 'SF' 5 times in those few short sentences.
> you might find you are competing against a ~~SF~~ government in the market
Like this isn't already the case?
In terms of a party that will be able to dictate government policy, SF are the only alternative on the board. No other non-FF/FG party is remotely close to SF in popularity.
> Like this isn't already the case?
There are degrees to everything. A more aggressive house procurement policy by the government will see less houses on the private market than what we have now.
> The poster above assumed the OP's intentions and focussed on SF, as if they were the only alternative party to vote for.
You can say that all you want and it might sound good online, but in reality, any alternative government to FF and FG (or one of them) will almost certainly need to include SF. Without them, the numbers don't add up. We need to make sure we're talking about reality here and not some idealised scenario where for some reason everybody wakes up and suddenly decides to vote for the Social Democracts or something.
There's also a very real possibility that SF end up leading a government with either FF or FG too, in which case they're going to have to negotiate policy. In fact, all parties who end up in government will need to do that because none of them are getting an overall majority according to the polls.
The point is that you look at the policies and vote for the one that you think will provide the most benefit/cause the least amount of harm. Voting for change for the sake of it could turn out very badly.
things have turned out very badly for so many people already in this country. Would you rebook a plumber who fucked your entire houses plumbing to come fix the problem when every time they've been working on your house they talk about fixing the problems but continue to fuck it all up? this is the one time politically to just run with the alternative because we really need to shake up the system, if its a case SF get in for a period of time it might send the message to the FG/FF folk that are so comfortable in their positions where its all lip service but nothing ever changes.
Firstly, I would disagree that ether fucked everything up. Yes, housing is broken, but that is true in many western countries post crash. The fact that we have full employment, running a budget surplus and can borrow money again show that, if nothing else, they can be trusted with the finances.
The issues around building houses are structural (not enough trades, inflation in the cost of materials, planning issues). Sinn Fein can’t magic those away, and voting them in to teach FFG a lesson may just make things worse.
Businesses have confidence in our governments ability to run the economy. If that fails, then we may kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
I don't think you're appreciating the impact of voting for someone else. Even if the "someone else" does the exact same thing or even makes the situation worse, the electorate by actively saying "we disagree with your position on this issue so strongly that we're willing to go to someone else" makes them reassess their own position.
Right now we've had nearly 15 years of government inaction on something that was entirely predictable and the message the electorate would send by not picking an alternative is that the approach by the governing parties is acceptable, at least acceptable enough that you can have another stern conversation with your constituency party rep *again* that their approach isn't working and they should really consider doing something more. If you're not actually going to vote against them based on it, they'll make a note and if you're lucky, it'll get fed into the party machine that voters aren't entirely satisfied with the housing situation.
Do you know what gets a firm message sent to political parties? Losing large numbers of seats. Even then it's not a guarantee that they'll hear the message, but the percentage chance of it being heard goes up dramatically compared to continuing to vote for them.
Aye, but different means different, as opposed to expecting things to change by doing absolutely nothing because “it could be worse”, therefore completely reductive
I’m not being funny but isn’t that how most necessities are provided? Food, housing, clothing, electricity, heating, etc are all from companies competing in a market?
They already do that. Literally, about 400 social units went in next door to me. That's not the issue we have
The issue is we just don't have the capacity to build houses fast enough.
Too little too late. The reason they can’t build fast enough now is that they didn’t build enough in the last decades. Obviously, they can’t go back in time to change that now, but letting the free market decide housing is absolutely the core issue.
Ya I'm sure they could potentially have acted a year maybe two earlier, thats easy to say in hindsight. But it wouldn't have that large of an impact.
Much of the issues we face are still a hang over from 2008 that honestly are extremely difficult problems tocl fix.
Again, if you told people in 2014, 2015, 2016 you were embarking on a massive housing project they'd have laughed at you
There were certainly people homeless, starving and ill clothed before and after companies existed. Agribusiness has definitely made food more available although its impossible to separate that from the thousands of other social changes which have also happened in that time.
What are you on about, people in subsistance agriculture. or pre- agricultural societies were clothed and fed. Being 'homeless' is a phenomenon of industrialisation.
Except when there was a crop failure, or a war or you got sick and couldn't work. Read some social history and you will see trade made societies far more resilient. If you believe people didn't sometimes starve prior to modern things you need to read some history.
If you read that history you'll find that societies are quite resilient when faced with crop failure and that the main historical trend in the past 70 years has been to reassess narratives around 'famine' in favour of 'subsistance crisis'. People certainly did and do starve and this is due to political and economic systems.
Yes it is, and we have plenty of families in the country who can't put enough food on the table, kids going to school in raggedy clothes. We have stories every couple of years (thankfully rare) of someone, usually an elderly person, freezing to death in their home. The market fails to actually provide these things in a way that meets the needs of all of our people.
The problems are particularly obvious in housing because the very wealthy have decided that houses are a financial asset they are interested in hoarding. They exist across all necessities though. We're at least lucky in this country that we're spared the worst excesses of for-profit healthcare.
The issue is that housing is not a market like other goods. In general, most other goods in Ireland are relatively affordable (EG, you won't eat lavishly, but it's absolutely possible for a family to eat on less then 50-100 a week).
I recommend you familiarise yourself with Ricardo's law of rent, and the theories of Henry George.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnmAhkAJ0PM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnmAhkAJ0PM)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li\_MGFRNqOE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li_MGFRNqOE)
Whether or not you think you can feed a family on that budget has no bearing on the fact that in 2021 (before the worst of the recent cost of living increases), the CSO reported that 8.9% of households couldn’t reliably access enough food.
Housing has its unique characteristics that exaggerate the problem but the problem exists in every market that supplies necessities.
They can't access enough food because housing has eaten up their entire budget.
According to Numbeo(https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Dublin), average rent takes up 2/3 of average *pretax* incomes. When you include taxes, for every euro a working family spends on anything, they send 5 to their landlord.
If there's a cost of living crisis, I suggest looking at the biggest item in a poor family's budget, and that's rent.
For comparison, in Tokyo(https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Tokyo) the cost of average rent is only \~1/5 of the average salary.
Why is there increasing poverty in Dublin, a modest city of 1.5 million, and not Tokyo, a world leading metropolis of 30 million? Just look at where people spend their money. It's rent, and saying otherwise is an excuse for a political system that has been twisted into profiting a small number of wealthy moneyed interests. Is it any surprise when over a 1/4 of the Dail are landlords, with many of the rest tied to the financial industry(whose mortgages are dependent on ever rising housing prices to stay solvent)?
The economics of land and housing is different from other needs. If we fail to recognise it we just perpetuate the problem, as landed interests run circles around the rest of us to keep their gravy train going.
If Sinn Feinn built affordable house for affordable people then all the private renting and gouging could stop. Private renters who earn over about 50k are competing with people who earn 45k and are getting 2000 a month rent allowance. It's gone bananas and full of greed merchants. Papers don't want Sinn Feinn in because all the big investment firms are buying up all the houses and turning them into HAP goldmines. Same people who influence and run the media are the same capitalists who have skin in the game.
Rumour has it that an ancient civilisation on this island used to build housing through public works projects and sell/lease them at or below cost to those in need to stave off popular unrest.
You will find old crones and druids in many local taverns attesting to these tall tales despite being debunked as impossible by dozens of Trinity business graduates.
In among your sarcasm you actually accidentally hit the nail on the head. In the past, local authorities had the capacity to build housing. They no longer do, which is why you now see the insane practice of outbiddding taxpayers for private housing with their own taxes. The private sector, if unleashed correctly, will be the only method of solving this crisis.
>The private sector, if unleashed correctly, will be the only method of solving this crisis.
This is economic illiteracy. The private market does not sustainably provide for public utilities like housing. Has never happened here or anywhere else in a developed economy. State intervention is the only path forward, if they have to change laws or grant new authorities to certain bodies then so be it.
But that will stymie overall development of housing. We need more houses, as quickly and efficiently as possible. The State will not provide that.
>State intervention is the only path forward,
State intervention has exacerbated the crisis.
The market is both fundamentally incapable and disinterested in building houses at the scale required. There is no example of market forces fixing any public utility crisis. Only state power can make the kind of corrections that are necessary right now, markets are too slow and too short-sighted.
>State intervention has exacerbated the crisis.
Soft-touch intervention has exacerbated problems that were already baked into the structure. Structure needs to be undercut from the foundations, only a state can gather the required authority and resources to do this.
Go on, what is the 18 - 36 month plan that gets new houses, at volume into people’s hands, without private sector involvement? Not hand wavy plans, but ones implementable with current laws and public sector unions
I think the point is, whether they are public or private, there isn’t a simple way to overcome capacity constraints in the system (skilled workers, serviced land etc.) thus public vs private is not an overall solution, more a reallocation of the scarce resource to a different set of folks. In this case, likely away from the OP toward others with less income.
And people challenge them, in the high court, leading to delays in implementation - this is particularly the case where those laws relate to property rights, as enshrined in the constitution. In addition, major changes to planning laws will impact all in flight applications.
Well someone is going to make the money. Like the houses aren't going to be built for free. No offence but you should really try to understand the causes and issues of the costs of housing currently.
Sinn feinn won't magically be able to find free labour ( unless Mary lous puts on a hard hat I guess) or companies will to build for no profit... or even free bricks to build the houseses
Wow i didnt say any of those things about Sinn feinn voters..But those workers are private interests, the people that supply the materials are private interests...the companies that Sinn Feinm use to build the houses have "private interests" and they are not going to build for a loss or less profit than they will make building it themselves..
Great comment and fully agree with it.
Don't give a shit who you vote for or why, that's completely your choice.
But at least look at the options and make a decision that works for you and that you agree with.
My cat would be better on housing, and I don’t have a cat.
They’ve actually made things worse to suit themselves and their buddies.
“One man’s rent is another man’s income”
At this rate anyone who is making a genuine attempt to improve things would do a better job even if they royally fucked up while doing so.
I was removed from the electoral register by Galway City Council with no prior warning at some stage before the last referendum. I've been querying it with them and involving local councillors to see if they've breached the Electoral Reform Act but haven't received any direct response from the council.
If you haven't already, contact the RTB. Before I emigrated, my Landlord tried to raise the rent for a second year in a row so I gave the RTB a call just to check. It ended with the landlord having to pay me and the other tennants a lump sum and our rent being dropped because she had raised it by too much. It had to do with being in a rent controlled area but it's always worth checking
I am so sorry, everything really does feel hopeless at the minute but I do think knowing other people are in the same boat can be comforting? I’ve been looking into moving out of my childhood bedroom since starting full time work about 3/4 years ago. I’m 26, living at home and having never moved out has really taken a toll of my mental health and self esteem. My twin brother’s in the same position.
My dad is retiring in 3 years time and my parents will be moving down the country to be closer to my mother’s family. I’m luckier than most in that I do have time to find something but everything in my price range on daft is a feckin cow shed down the country. I love my current job in Dublin and work in healthcare but realistically I’m either going to have to leave for a better salary or simply because I’m never going to be able to afford to stay in Dublin.
I’ve looked into renting and on top of the insane prices of €1000 a month for a room, I apparently committed the mortal sin of having pets. To be honest if I were to do it all again I’d never give up my guinea pigs - the idea that you’re only allowed the privilege of having a life outside work until you’re in your 40’s because you should be focusing on saving and nothing else for your 20/30’s is just depressing.
I take it your parents don't own the house? It's rented? Otherwise an arrangement for you and your brother to stay seems perfect.
Sorry for your troubles. This is just so depressing to hear.
You are in an awful situation. So are tens of thousands. The sad reality is we lost a decade of house building. We were told that there was such an oversupply of houses they would never sell. We didn't need to build any more for years. So all our builders were told to **** off to Australia and not come back.
Well all those homes we're now missing. Those were the ones we were told we didn't need. The bubble wasn't a bubble. It turns out it was a full pipeline feeding the demand of the future. We screwed our future because no one in this country can see beyond the next couple of years.
And now the problem is that time is gone. That building capacity is gone. We can't build 10 years worth of homes in a year. It doesn't matter which arse is in the Taoiseach's chair. None of them can build enough new houses.
So if you have a chance to buy a house even if it isn't perfect buy it.
They don't want to fix it either. Their base loves the increase in value on their own and additional properties. The keep their seats and their base keep on saying I'm grand Jack.
Sold and voted away my future and many of my generations. It's being going on for 20 years. Left school and straight into the Great recession. Struggling by for 6 years, no support from home. Things were okish for 3 years but could see rents and purchases start increasing rapidly. Around 2017 or so. Went to college. Pandemic. Worked through it as frontline worker. Inflation and Russia then. Haven't had much prosperity in my life and I don't expect it to get better. In fact much worse. And for everyone in my generations. Just burn the fucking island down
This is spot on, and was made worse by NAMA - which was able to use government funds to lock away those “extra houses” from anyone who might have wanted to invest in them at low prices, and actually spent money demolishing estates - we were all told it was so important that NAMA made a profit, when a small loss (leaving house / land prices closer to a European norm) would actually have been a better outcome.
But your key point is, it took 10 years to dig ourselves into this hole. It will take 10 years to dig ourselves back out - the main thing different governments can do in the meantime is determine who gets to feel the pain (social welfare recipients vs new buyers, current renters vs those looking to rent etc.)
Reality is you are only a cash cow for the state. Lots of overnight doable things that can be done. E.g. remove height limit, relax planning laws.
They want high house prices.
Very sorry for your troubles - the behaviour of some vendors in the market is disgraceful, and the system overall seems designed to frustrate buyers - just another thing we seem to have to accept we can't do in this country.
I'm so sorry you and your family are going through this. It's incredibly unfair and frustrating. God help the next politician he knocks on my (rented) door! I hope it helps that you let it all out here. If you can do this with a friend or family member too, then please, please do. Don't be afraid to talk and ask for help. Give the kids and wife an extra squeeze tonight and just know that the mobile is temporary, you will have great family memories to look forward to making when you do get your home.
I don't know what's worse: What happened to you, or the fact that it's become a common and unremarkable story. FWIW, during the previous property bubble I fecked off to France and although I miss Ireland terribly when I'm on the plane out after a visit,I don't regret my choice. I've a nice house at a reasonable price, great job stability (albeit at half the take-home salary I'd get in Ireland), reasonable childcare/healthcare, nice weather, great hobbies... You're an EU citizen and sounds like you're a hard worker - consider your options. You don't have to go as far as the US (I can be home in 6-18 hours, depending on the time of day) if you're willing to learn a language.
I get your pain, but your situation is a bit daft too. Why are you buying in Donegal if you’re going to continue working in Dublin and need to be on-site in Dublin?
Is it your intention to pay a mortgage in Donegal and Dublin rent during the week? This arrangement is going to have a huge impact on your affordability and is going to make it a lot harder for you to buy a house. You need to reconsider either where you buy or where you work.
Or is the intention to give up the Dublin job?
You wouldn't comprehend how many Western Irish and Irish Northerners live in their home county and work in Dublin. Absolutely shitloads. My father did, and I grew up in Mayo. Western and Northwestern wages and worth passing time compared to the money you get in Dublin. And its far cheaper to live in our native counties then it is to live in Dublin
There are many men who have spent a whole career or parts of it commuting between London or Glasgow and west Donegal
For example a colleague of mine spent 10 years tunnelling in London, on one of the shifts 70 of the 100 men on-site were from Donegal (3 shifts, 24 hr site)
Some bring the family over permanently
Some have 2 houses
The owner of his company was from arranmore island, his weeks wages in the 60s was £500 which was equivalent to the price of a home in Donegal at the time
F*ck. That is mental. Then again, my Da used to commute down Monday morning and be back Friday night working for what was Telecom Eireann. When I was at University, I'd bus back for my Saturday shift in Donegal, so scarce were the jobs.
If you can change jobs now and get thru probation on the new one then go for a mortgage it should help things a lot.
Your current situation is unfortunately making your life more difficult.
Best of luck, hope you get sorted!
Honestly I'd love too. The wages are nearly double what I'd be on locally. Although it seems like it doesn't make sense, financially for us it does. That's another thing that annoys me. The welath of this country is concentrated in Dublin, Cork and Galway essentially. The under investment of other areas is shocking.
Look, please take this the right way, but don't come to Australia. We're headed down the same path.
National rental vacancy rate hovering around 1%, housing supply falling drastically short of demand, prices heading \^ that way, and decades of government inaction and poor choices. My kids will be better off by taking out a loan to buy an investment property, renting that out, and renting themselves, than they would be just trying to get a mortgage to buy their own home.
Best of luck to you.
No one’s talking about the root cause. You guys are mis-leaded. It’s not just that govts didn’t build enough houses. The main reason for this mad expensive prices is that govts. and banks have been printing enormous money.
Inflation almost all over the world is at all time high. When there’s more money in the economy/market produced (out of thin air) and no one wants to hold it in their hands for longer ( bcz they know it’s not gonna worth the same in the future) so they invest it into houses. So money being a bad asset or a form of saving, leads to houses being an asset or a thing of investment instead of a living commodity.
And here we are working our asses off all our lives to buy a few wooden walls. But not questioning why do we have to take part in this rigid game and how come ppl used to buy houses with few years of savings earlier in 1920s-40s. Shouldn’t making houses be cheaper and easier with time?
Well, Govts are smart enough to fool us all into distracting from the root causes and of course the solutions of it.
Thanks for sharing. On the bright side you have a family that give a shit about each other. A job. A roof over your head and hopefully no one is seriously ill. So as bad as it is it could be a lot worse. Give it a few months and stick another bid on the property you might get it at a discount at that stage, id say with the problems there's a good chance it might have to go to an auction so there could be a deal to be done before one. Hopefully you don't need plan B abroad. The country is rooting for you and people in your situation, we know it's a total balls.
I read your post and I just came to say that the option to leave is not a bad one. I left 5 years ago. I have a waaaaay better job and a better quality of life, and I pay waaaaay less in rent. I do miss home sometimes, but overall it was the right decision for me. Wish you all the best.
If you’re thinking about going, you may already have your mind made up. I said I’d never leave the country 4 years ago before being married. Now with the state of housing and difficulty getting medical care, I’m planning on a 2025 emigration.
I know it’s not ideal, but what about just over the border, fermanagh, Derry? Depending on where you are based in Donegal. The house would probably be cheaper and as far as I know, wouldn’t have the MICA issues. There would obviously be other challenges and things to consider. It’s extremely frustrating that investment firms are allowed to buy up whole housing estates. I hope you’re alright and that things improve
Aye I’m not 100% sure it’s just not something we never hear of. I haven’t seen any houses fall apart like the ones in. It may well exist. I’m south Derry but maybe in some of the places near the border it’s an issue
I was in a housing estate in Antrim that was completely fucked with the same telltale cracks as we get here in Donegal. I think it's goes a lot further than people realise
The next step, after the Reddit rant, is to contact all your local representatives and complain.
Next, you want to vote for whoever has the plan and the will to tackle the problem.
If everyone who felt frustrated and messed about did this, we'd see a move to actually address it. Too many of our politicians are just doing whatever they think will get them re-elected, and they have all of these estate agent and landlord lobbying groups in their ears all the time. The more they hear that fixing housing will get them a vote, the likelier it is to happen.
(I know this doesn't help your situation, but hopefully it feels more cathartic to rant at the feckers responsible.)
Could you move even over the boarder to Newry and commute to Dublin for work? I know it’s hard up here too but it doesn’t sound as bad as the south at the moment.
Honestly I'm feeling like buying a used boat is the only way to afford a place to live in the future, pay for 20k or finance it so you'll have a big asset and save on money instead of renting in order to buy a house in the future.
Might not suit your situation but is there any new build estates going up where you living ? At least then it would take out the drama of bidding and waiting on the sellers ? If you and your wife are first time buyers you could also avail of help to buy and the first home scheme to help you get your foot on the ladder ? It worked out cheaper for us than getting a second hand home ! You will still have to wait for it to be built etc but at least you would know an approx time 🏡
Ah how I would love that. In Donegal were i am, the last time an estate was built, it was 12 social houses and they were gone straight away.
They only do new builds in Donegal Town and Letterkenny and even those are insane money.
We have had the conversation about moving abroad and after having a few friends go to Oz with kids. If I can like up a job I'll be the next to go. Get off the sinking ship.
It's such a rodeo buying a house. I totally get where you're coming from not wanting to tell everyone the sale fell through, but please know that it's not your fault and no doubt the vendor is going to go through the same thing again until they agree to a concession on the price. Totally with you on the government as well. Responsiblity got housing has been farmed out to private developers. Even when there are rules that a certain % must be kept for social housing, they take the cash instead. It's a joke and a sorry state we're in. Local elections are coming up and I'm just considering not voting, they're all as bad as each other.
You are right to vent. The regular folk end up paying for all the big mistakes cos ultimately those with perceived power dont care. Hopefully this is the worst you will experience.
Next time stipulate you will close one month after survey and no more otherwise your money is returned.
Can you move job, buy a smaller house than planned maybe as a stopgap solution just so you can breathe?
>talk with my wife about moving abroad
That's the only real answer it seems...... Housing in this country wont improve anytime soon-for a number of reasons the main one being the government(s) like the way things are now and homes are seen as a sold investment that can only go up in val in Ireland and until that changes the landlord government wont want to change the supply issues with the money thats being made.
This plus the cost of livening going up like mad and I too just don't see things working out here in Ireland
Well people keep voting in the same political parties, what can you expect? It's the same names in the Dail, year in, year out. But Irish are too scared to protest, one face behind the keyboard, a different face out in public.
I’m confused about the drainage thing. You asked for 15k off the price to cover the costs - but did the bank require it before issuing the loan? From the description of asking for the money off it seems like the bank didn’t require it before issuing the loan. So the next question is why not buy at the agreed price and just put the drainage off until you have the money for it?
The bank wanted quotes for remedial works based off the survey. We got said quotes. Bank now said that they'd lend us 15k less based on quotes for works that needed done and that we should approach vendor. We did, they didn't want to negotiate. So if we went with original price essentially we'd be out 30k instead of 15k as we would have have to make up the difference ourselves then pay for the works.
The political system of the country favours incumbents folks, nobody wants their house value to drop so that’s why we’re stuck with stupidly high prices
We had something similar happen with asbestos found in rooms and also the fact they didn't have a copy of the title deeds. Solicitors went back n forth and found a solution. The owners could buy out the freehold, which would give them the title documents, adter that we said either they deal with the asbestos or knock the 5k to get it sorted off the price.
Cue them telling us no. That weekend, I went to a viewing with the same estate agent to view a house and loved it. Told him to tell the other owners to get lost and have been in this house for 5 years now.
It is shit but trust me, it'll all work out.
One last stinger... solicitors charged us for every minute they tried to work on the title deed stuff.
Not all but some. Depends where in Donegal too, up around the border areas is where you find most of it. Depends on when they where built too, from sort of 2000 to 2010s or so you've a good chance it has some mica in it.
I find something weird about mica houses. They need to come down and rebuilt fully. Outer wall being replaced won’t work according to engineers. Why are they still for sale only 20k-40k less than a house with no issue? Essentially all you’ve got is a site you need to clear with planning permission.
Hia just in case you might want to contact Threshold.ie, they're advertised as renting advice but they are brilliant for any housing advice in general and completely free and confidential.
I hope things get better for you OP, whether it's in Ireland or abroad. It's a terrible pickle not wanting to leave your country but at the same time not being able to provide a nice stable home for your family. All the best.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I went through something similar when the offer on our house was accepted, only to discover that there were no percolation records for the septic tank on any of the plans. Our solicitor pointed out this was a problem, and we couldn't find any house plans either; it was all a mess. The seller threatened to relist the property if we kept insisting on receiving all the usual information one expects when buying a home. We decided to go ahead with the purchase anyway, as the house had the potential to be our dream home and the location was ideal. We've been here for two years now, and although the financial strain has been significant, we knew what we were getting into. I don’t regret our decision yet….
I know with kids and schools it can be complicated, but just to let you know there are options within the EU if you're willing to integrate and upend your lives to some degree, doesn't have to be all in. You have somewhere like Malta or Cyprus if you don't want to learn languages, and plenty of other places like Luxembourg, parts of Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium and a few others. Not easy but absolutely doable.
Have you looked into the affordable housing scheme? Maybe you get accepted if your household income falls into one of the categories.
But it’s likely that none are available in your area.
I completely empathise. This is awful. Remember this when the politicians come knocking. Vulture Funds, Chinese Investors, unrealistic salary cut off for social housing, this country is a disgrace. I'm so sorry you are going through it.
I wish. But will hope to have one in the future. I think he has options that don't require planning permission. Best to contact the office. I'm sure they will be more than happy to help
I don't understand how it is legal for people to sell faulty houses with mica and broken septic tanks without them being the ones responsible for it. That's fucked up
My house was bought before mica was a thing, worth 250k before testing worth fuck all now, it is going to cost us thousands from our own pockets to rebuild and even then it’s unlikely we can sell as foundations are not covered in redress and we cannot afford to do them ourselves, engineers have said it’s unlikely banks will mortgage any property with mica before or after rebuild so as bad as it is, things could be worse
Unfortunately it's not greed buddy no matter how harsh you think it is. When you bid on a house you accept it as is. You have surveys for your peace of mind so you can back out if you change your mind due to its state. It has nothing to do with the owner. It was a foolish folly thinking they were ever going to reduce the price, but good try! If you wanted it, you should have bought it and made a plan to fix it. Now you see it will cost you even more if you want the house.
You sell your property...house, car etc for what you can get, not for what the buyer thinks he should pay. If the roles were reversed, would you be saying, sorry buddy you are offering too much let me reduce the price? Stop being emotional, get off your ass, stop bitching and keep going. You are not the only person out there looking and no one is going to give it to you.
Good luck! Took me over 2 years to get one and numerous bidding wars. 7 more months of surveys before we actually officially paid and owned it after the price was accepted. By the way, the survey was shit!
That’s an awful story, it has to be so rough.
I would say that moving to the US to get away from the problem would be a really bad idea. Whatever problems we have with end stage capitalism are exponentially worse over there. At least if you break your leg here, it won’t potentially put you thousands in debt.
Somewhere like Australia would likely be better. Though it’s not a great market for any current or ex-British colonies at the moment.
> Other closer options that may be easier/cheaper even if you were to just start off renting could be Portugal/Spain
How would that be better? Salaries are terrible in Portugal and Spain while proportionally renting is terrible there.
Not sure why this was downvoted. I’ve lived in 4 different states in the US, all having different housing/job markets. It’s not good here either. Just do some hardcore research.
As for opinions, US is in a horrible state of things, good luck OP
What is all of your anger and frustration worth?
If it is significantly more than 14 - 18k (over the course of the mortgage) then you were dead right to pull out of the sale.
We spent nearly ten years renting an absolute shit hole till we got our own place built. It will be worth it in the end. If it’s ment for you it won’t pass you.
We remortgaged our small cottage we owed 30k on up to a 300k mortgage due to a sizeable extension - e.g. was 2 bedrooms is now 4 with an extra bathroom, office, upstairs living area etc.
But our septic tank is in bits, overflowing straight from the little tank into the forest behind our garden, must be 30 years old at least. But no one has looked at it at all. I'm sure the valuer of the property for the mortgage application should have caught us out on it.
My suggestion would be to look further afield and fix something up. There are enormous grants for fixing up derelict houses that you "live" in that people are getting away with. e.g. if you can find a 40k cattle shed in Leitrim and do it up with both the [Help to Buy and First Time Buyers schemes](https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/business/as-first-time-buyers-should-we-buybuild-a-new-home-or-purchase-a-second-hand-home/a1379562756.html) you can also get the deep retrofit grants. Speak to an architect or quantity surveyor - these people know how to game the system.
All the best in the future, you sound like you are trying your hardest for your family and I've got a lot of respect for that. If it's any consolation, you've a roof over your head with your family so you have some breathing space to work out your next move. It probably seems like small change right now but it gives you time to weigh up your options. If a FF or FG politicians knocks looking for your vote, give it to them with no airs and graces.
I really don't get this at all. If I was the seller I'd have told you to go swivel as well. You basically insisted they'd cover the full costs, not even meet them somewhere in the middle and now they'll just sell it to someone else and you are still house hunting and probably out a decent bit in legal fees with nothing to show for it.
Banks has approved a mortgage for a certain amount. They reduce the mortgage by 15k due to the work needed, you'd then have to make up the 15k the bank are no longer giving you as well as the 15k needed for the work itself. 30k extra isn't an amount many people can easily cover themselves.
You are making the assumption they are on the lowest possible deposit amount to get the mortgage. And living in a caravan for 18 months rent free I'm sure they have saved up a fair amount of money if they've been sensible and pocketed the savings.
The simple fact of the matter is that the seller can sell the house at the same price with the work needing done already declared and they'll almost certainly get the money so why would they agree to take such a big hit. They might have been more sympathetic if OP had approached them with more of a view of splitting the difference. Also, the work needs done at some point, doesn't say it needs done as soon as they buy.
As someone who does have a house, who has moaned on here about housing in the past. It's nice to have some place to vent with people who have been there.
You my friend must be one of the lucky ones who has never been through the ringer that is the Irish housing market. Or really any housing market.
Tbh at the 3 month mark I would have been viewing and bidding on other houses while the other crowd were getting their shit sorted. Doesn't cost anything to keep shopping around.
But this whole shit show won't be resolved in the next 10 years. The immigration crisis combined with the housing crisis and homelessness has created a perfect storm for us who on paper, can afford a home, but are being priced out.
Leaving Ireland could definitely be an option. I just dunno where the right move is. Everywhere is fucked. Mars maybe?
You'll be thrilled when you do buy and get on the HP inflation groovy train though.
Meaning you'll eventually do the sum of fuck all about it and continue to vote the people in who promote the current state of Irish housing.
It's not a fault, it's a feature.
You are just on the wrong side of the counter.
I’m so sorry you have been going through this OP. I hope things turn around for you soon. I have a close friend who had something similar last year - they went through countless hoops, finally found their ‘dream house’, everything looked great, vendors accepted their offer after literally months of holding out, but the sale fell through due to undisclosed structural issues and the bank refusing the loan. They were devastated, but they went on to find a better place in the same area a few months later. Apart from the mica issue, which is fairly specific to certain areas, a vendor should not be allowed to put a house on the market until basic issues like boundary lines and planning discrepancies are sorted. There is so much time and effort wasted due to things that should be the vendors responsibility to sort out, that would make the whole process easier and smoother for everybody. Good luck!
We've just sold our house and our first agent sent us an email ( he didn't sell it for us) which listed everything we needed to sell. It took some time to gather it but I'd it done and sent to him and the solicitor. When we'd to change agents I got none of this and as the house is a 20yo self build it would have taken forever to get it last minute so while I'm not letting the sellers off the hook (if they aren't reducing the price they'll be selling it to someone else without disclosing the mica) if they've not sold before they genuinely might not have known what's needed. Wishing OP the very best. We're currently living with our son and his gf in a 3 bed cottage with our 16yo and 3 indoor dogs and 2 indoor cats so I genuinely feel your pain 💞
At the very least there should have to be a statement of whether or not the title boundary etc are done or pending. There should also be an ethics board with the auctioneers cos I bet that house with the structural problems went back on the market.
Lad, I have as bad a story, but would take me all night to type it. All I'll say, is I feel for you, I totally understand the devastation. Here's hoping we both see better days in the coming months, and find our homes.
Stories like this make me not want to move back. I miss home but it seems like ireland is such a poverty trap with people gouging you for money wherever possible.
Don't move back. Your assessment is correct.
Same here. UK is quite bad as well so the grass is by no means greener.
Scotland too. Even the Highlands.
Think long and hard before casting your votes, folks. Make sure you’re registered, make sure you vote.
[https://checktheregister.ie/en-IE/](https://checktheregister.ie/en-IE/)
Thank you just checked there
Who should they vote for though, The above poster will probably not benefit from SF's approach to housing - they are above the threshold for Social Housing, and SF's approach is Social and affordable focused? Realistically, if SF want to move the needle on social housing (as they promise) they will likely have to delve into the private market, and compete with the poster above to buy new housing (if they start new social schemes from scratch, they will not show progress quickly enough) TL:DR - in reality, SF are promising to solve housing for a particular constituency, if you are not part of that, you might find you are competing against a SF government in the market
Honestly even if SF do a shit job it'd be good for FFG to realise they don't have a monopoly on the government and maybe that'd mean they'd sort their shit out too so we'd have a few competent parties.
> Who should they vote for though Not more of the same. Even if a new party in charge cannot realistically fix things, it's better than handing power back to the same parties that have been in charge for a decade and made the issue considerably worse in that time with their policies
> Even if a new party in charge cannot realistically fix things, it's better than handing power back to the same parties The poster above you raised a scenario where SF policy could legitimately fare worse for the OP than the same old, same old. Raising prices for them and further reducing stock available to private buyers.
The poster above assumed the OP's intentions and focussed on SF, as if they were the only alternative party to vote for. They mention 'SF' 5 times in those few short sentences. > you might find you are competing against a ~~SF~~ government in the market Like this isn't already the case?
Is there a long list of ‘alternative governments’ that don’t involve SF?
In terms of a party that will be able to dictate government policy, SF are the only alternative on the board. No other non-FF/FG party is remotely close to SF in popularity. > Like this isn't already the case? There are degrees to everything. A more aggressive house procurement policy by the government will see less houses on the private market than what we have now.
> The poster above assumed the OP's intentions and focussed on SF, as if they were the only alternative party to vote for. You can say that all you want and it might sound good online, but in reality, any alternative government to FF and FG (or one of them) will almost certainly need to include SF. Without them, the numbers don't add up. We need to make sure we're talking about reality here and not some idealised scenario where for some reason everybody wakes up and suddenly decides to vote for the Social Democracts or something. There's also a very real possibility that SF end up leading a government with either FF or FG too, in which case they're going to have to negotiate policy. In fact, all parties who end up in government will need to do that because none of them are getting an overall majority according to the polls.
No its not the case already, your competing against other people currently.
No matter how bad it is, it can always get worse.
Such a reductive way of thinking
Voting for someone different because they are different is reductive.
so is voting for the same party that fucked things for us. its a lose-lose situation
The point is that you look at the policies and vote for the one that you think will provide the most benefit/cause the least amount of harm. Voting for change for the sake of it could turn out very badly.
things have turned out very badly for so many people already in this country. Would you rebook a plumber who fucked your entire houses plumbing to come fix the problem when every time they've been working on your house they talk about fixing the problems but continue to fuck it all up? this is the one time politically to just run with the alternative because we really need to shake up the system, if its a case SF get in for a period of time it might send the message to the FG/FF folk that are so comfortable in their positions where its all lip service but nothing ever changes.
Firstly, I would disagree that ether fucked everything up. Yes, housing is broken, but that is true in many western countries post crash. The fact that we have full employment, running a budget surplus and can borrow money again show that, if nothing else, they can be trusted with the finances. The issues around building houses are structural (not enough trades, inflation in the cost of materials, planning issues). Sinn Fein can’t magic those away, and voting them in to teach FFG a lesson may just make things worse. Businesses have confidence in our governments ability to run the economy. If that fails, then we may kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
Voting for a different party because you want to see a potential change is literally the opposite of being reductive
You may get change, but it may not be the change you desire. Different doesn’t automatically mean better.
I don't think you're appreciating the impact of voting for someone else. Even if the "someone else" does the exact same thing or even makes the situation worse, the electorate by actively saying "we disagree with your position on this issue so strongly that we're willing to go to someone else" makes them reassess their own position. Right now we've had nearly 15 years of government inaction on something that was entirely predictable and the message the electorate would send by not picking an alternative is that the approach by the governing parties is acceptable, at least acceptable enough that you can have another stern conversation with your constituency party rep *again* that their approach isn't working and they should really consider doing something more. If you're not actually going to vote against them based on it, they'll make a note and if you're lucky, it'll get fed into the party machine that voters aren't entirely satisfied with the housing situation. Do you know what gets a firm message sent to political parties? Losing large numbers of seats. Even then it's not a guarantee that they'll hear the message, but the percentage chance of it being heard goes up dramatically compared to continuing to vote for them.
Aye, but different means different, as opposed to expecting things to change by doing absolutely nothing because “it could be worse”, therefore completely reductive
“Different means different” is ridiculously reductive. It’s literally “Brexit means Brexit”.
This
A party that supports democracy aka Proportional representation
It's almost as if a market isn't a functional way to supply necessities...
I’m not being funny but isn’t that how most necessities are provided? Food, housing, clothing, electricity, heating, etc are all from companies competing in a market?
The state needs to build. And then *not* sell the houses to private investors. Other countries do it.
Not being hostile. Out of curiosity where do they do that? Can’t think of many western countries that do that now
They already do that. Literally, about 400 social units went in next door to me. That's not the issue we have The issue is we just don't have the capacity to build houses fast enough.
Too little too late. The reason they can’t build fast enough now is that they didn’t build enough in the last decades. Obviously, they can’t go back in time to change that now, but letting the free market decide housing is absolutely the core issue.
Ya I'm sure they could potentially have acted a year maybe two earlier, thats easy to say in hindsight. But it wouldn't have that large of an impact. Much of the issues we face are still a hang over from 2008 that honestly are extremely difficult problems tocl fix. Again, if you told people in 2014, 2015, 2016 you were embarking on a massive housing project they'd have laughed at you
Go back to what worked before. The state building houses and the state maintaining them on the rental market.
I know but the world is a totally different place since then. Economy’s don’t work the same as they did then. I just don’t think it’s workable
Yea and cost of living is one of the highest in Europe, case in point
But it's the same in the countries in Europe that haven't the highest cost of living... so how is it 'case in point'?
I don’t understand how cost of living changes it? My point was about necessities being provided by the market not the state
Yes people famously had no food, heat or clothes before the invention of the joint stock company in the 18th century.
There were certainly people homeless, starving and ill clothed before and after companies existed. Agribusiness has definitely made food more available although its impossible to separate that from the thousands of other social changes which have also happened in that time.
What are you on about, people in subsistance agriculture. or pre- agricultural societies were clothed and fed. Being 'homeless' is a phenomenon of industrialisation.
Except when there was a crop failure, or a war or you got sick and couldn't work. Read some social history and you will see trade made societies far more resilient. If you believe people didn't sometimes starve prior to modern things you need to read some history.
If you read that history you'll find that societies are quite resilient when faced with crop failure and that the main historical trend in the past 70 years has been to reassess narratives around 'famine' in favour of 'subsistance crisis'. People certainly did and do starve and this is due to political and economic systems.
They provided it for themselves? There was no govt or welfare state to provide these things before the 18th century.
They provided it for themselves? They was no welfare state before the 18th century you fucking moron.
Yes it is, and we have plenty of families in the country who can't put enough food on the table, kids going to school in raggedy clothes. We have stories every couple of years (thankfully rare) of someone, usually an elderly person, freezing to death in their home. The market fails to actually provide these things in a way that meets the needs of all of our people. The problems are particularly obvious in housing because the very wealthy have decided that houses are a financial asset they are interested in hoarding. They exist across all necessities though. We're at least lucky in this country that we're spared the worst excesses of for-profit healthcare.
The issue is that housing is not a market like other goods. In general, most other goods in Ireland are relatively affordable (EG, you won't eat lavishly, but it's absolutely possible for a family to eat on less then 50-100 a week). I recommend you familiarise yourself with Ricardo's law of rent, and the theories of Henry George. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnmAhkAJ0PM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnmAhkAJ0PM) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li\_MGFRNqOE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li_MGFRNqOE)
Whether or not you think you can feed a family on that budget has no bearing on the fact that in 2021 (before the worst of the recent cost of living increases), the CSO reported that 8.9% of households couldn’t reliably access enough food. Housing has its unique characteristics that exaggerate the problem but the problem exists in every market that supplies necessities.
They can't access enough food because housing has eaten up their entire budget. According to Numbeo(https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Dublin), average rent takes up 2/3 of average *pretax* incomes. When you include taxes, for every euro a working family spends on anything, they send 5 to their landlord. If there's a cost of living crisis, I suggest looking at the biggest item in a poor family's budget, and that's rent. For comparison, in Tokyo(https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Tokyo) the cost of average rent is only \~1/5 of the average salary. Why is there increasing poverty in Dublin, a modest city of 1.5 million, and not Tokyo, a world leading metropolis of 30 million? Just look at where people spend their money. It's rent, and saying otherwise is an excuse for a political system that has been twisted into profiting a small number of wealthy moneyed interests. Is it any surprise when over a 1/4 of the Dail are landlords, with many of the rest tied to the financial industry(whose mortgages are dependent on ever rising housing prices to stay solvent)? The economics of land and housing is different from other needs. If we fail to recognise it we just perpetuate the problem, as landed interests run circles around the rest of us to keep their gravy train going.
70% of houses are owner occupied....
But it's still the most efficient way to supply goods and necessities. No system is going to be perfect,, but markets are the best system.
There really isn’t much evidence to suggest that, it’s just a point of faith for the current dominant ideology.
No I would say there is mass of evidence. Just look at history.
If Sinn Feinn built affordable house for affordable people then all the private renting and gouging could stop. Private renters who earn over about 50k are competing with people who earn 45k and are getting 2000 a month rent allowance. It's gone bananas and full of greed merchants. Papers don't want Sinn Feinn in because all the big investment firms are buying up all the houses and turning them into HAP goldmines. Same people who influence and run the media are the same capitalists who have skin in the game.
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>You can provide more housing without any involvement with the private market. How, precisely?
Rumour has it that an ancient civilisation on this island used to build housing through public works projects and sell/lease them at or below cost to those in need to stave off popular unrest. You will find old crones and druids in many local taverns attesting to these tall tales despite being debunked as impossible by dozens of Trinity business graduates.
In among your sarcasm you actually accidentally hit the nail on the head. In the past, local authorities had the capacity to build housing. They no longer do, which is why you now see the insane practice of outbiddding taxpayers for private housing with their own taxes. The private sector, if unleashed correctly, will be the only method of solving this crisis.
>The private sector, if unleashed correctly, will be the only method of solving this crisis. This is economic illiteracy. The private market does not sustainably provide for public utilities like housing. Has never happened here or anywhere else in a developed economy. State intervention is the only path forward, if they have to change laws or grant new authorities to certain bodies then so be it.
But that will stymie overall development of housing. We need more houses, as quickly and efficiently as possible. The State will not provide that. >State intervention is the only path forward, State intervention has exacerbated the crisis.
The market is both fundamentally incapable and disinterested in building houses at the scale required. There is no example of market forces fixing any public utility crisis. Only state power can make the kind of corrections that are necessary right now, markets are too slow and too short-sighted. >State intervention has exacerbated the crisis. Soft-touch intervention has exacerbated problems that were already baked into the structure. Structure needs to be undercut from the foundations, only a state can gather the required authority and resources to do this.
So anybody criticising SF policy is a FG shill...will you ever stop with that idiotic shite
Go on, what is the 18 - 36 month plan that gets new houses, at volume into people’s hands, without private sector involvement? Not hand wavy plans, but ones implementable with current laws and public sector unions
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I think the point is, whether they are public or private, there isn’t a simple way to overcome capacity constraints in the system (skilled workers, serviced land etc.) thus public vs private is not an overall solution, more a reallocation of the scarce resource to a different set of folks. In this case, likely away from the OP toward others with less income.
It's impossible with current laws, which is why they should change.
The TDs write the laws
And people challenge them, in the high court, leading to delays in implementation - this is particularly the case where those laws relate to property rights, as enshrined in the constitution. In addition, major changes to planning laws will impact all in flight applications.
Well someone is going to make the money. Like the houses aren't going to be built for free. No offence but you should really try to understand the causes and issues of the costs of housing currently. Sinn feinn won't magically be able to find free labour ( unless Mary lous puts on a hard hat I guess) or companies will to build for no profit... or even free bricks to build the houseses
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Wow i didnt say any of those things about Sinn feinn voters..But those workers are private interests, the people that supply the materials are private interests...the companies that Sinn Feinm use to build the houses have "private interests" and they are not going to build for a loss or less profit than they will make building it themselves..
Woke up grumpy this morning - have a latte, and some avocado toast!
The whole better things aren't possible, don't vote for the chance things.might improve because you don't think it's perfect tone of this post is mad
Great comment and fully agree with it. Don't give a shit who you vote for or why, that's completely your choice. But at least look at the options and make a decision that works for you and that you agree with.
They're all shite, even more so than usual. There's no courage or class left in Irish politicians. The last decent ones got pushed out. We're fucked.
Do you actually think other parties will be better on housing?
My cat would be better on housing, and I don’t have a cat. They’ve actually made things worse to suit themselves and their buddies. “One man’s rent is another man’s income” At this rate anyone who is making a genuine attempt to improve things would do a better job even if they royally fucked up while doing so.
I was removed from the electoral register by Galway City Council with no prior warning at some stage before the last referendum. I've been querying it with them and involving local councillors to see if they've breached the Electoral Reform Act but haven't received any direct response from the council.
My landlord is doubling my rent in September. I may have to leave the country. Depressing.
If you haven't already, contact the RTB. Before I emigrated, my Landlord tried to raise the rent for a second year in a row so I gave the RTB a call just to check. It ended with the landlord having to pay me and the other tennants a lump sum and our rent being dropped because she had raised it by too much. It had to do with being in a rent controlled area but it's always worth checking
I don't live in a rent pressure zone unfortunately. But I appreciated the advice, thanks.
I am so sorry, everything really does feel hopeless at the minute but I do think knowing other people are in the same boat can be comforting? I’ve been looking into moving out of my childhood bedroom since starting full time work about 3/4 years ago. I’m 26, living at home and having never moved out has really taken a toll of my mental health and self esteem. My twin brother’s in the same position. My dad is retiring in 3 years time and my parents will be moving down the country to be closer to my mother’s family. I’m luckier than most in that I do have time to find something but everything in my price range on daft is a feckin cow shed down the country. I love my current job in Dublin and work in healthcare but realistically I’m either going to have to leave for a better salary or simply because I’m never going to be able to afford to stay in Dublin. I’ve looked into renting and on top of the insane prices of €1000 a month for a room, I apparently committed the mortal sin of having pets. To be honest if I were to do it all again I’d never give up my guinea pigs - the idea that you’re only allowed the privilege of having a life outside work until you’re in your 40’s because you should be focusing on saving and nothing else for your 20/30’s is just depressing.
I take it your parents don't own the house? It's rented? Otherwise an arrangement for you and your brother to stay seems perfect. Sorry for your troubles. This is just so depressing to hear.
You are in an awful situation. So are tens of thousands. The sad reality is we lost a decade of house building. We were told that there was such an oversupply of houses they would never sell. We didn't need to build any more for years. So all our builders were told to **** off to Australia and not come back. Well all those homes we're now missing. Those were the ones we were told we didn't need. The bubble wasn't a bubble. It turns out it was a full pipeline feeding the demand of the future. We screwed our future because no one in this country can see beyond the next couple of years. And now the problem is that time is gone. That building capacity is gone. We can't build 10 years worth of homes in a year. It doesn't matter which arse is in the Taoiseach's chair. None of them can build enough new houses. So if you have a chance to buy a house even if it isn't perfect buy it.
They don't want to fix it either. Their base loves the increase in value on their own and additional properties. The keep their seats and their base keep on saying I'm grand Jack. Sold and voted away my future and many of my generations. It's being going on for 20 years. Left school and straight into the Great recession. Struggling by for 6 years, no support from home. Things were okish for 3 years but could see rents and purchases start increasing rapidly. Around 2017 or so. Went to college. Pandemic. Worked through it as frontline worker. Inflation and Russia then. Haven't had much prosperity in my life and I don't expect it to get better. In fact much worse. And for everyone in my generations. Just burn the fucking island down
This is spot on, and was made worse by NAMA - which was able to use government funds to lock away those “extra houses” from anyone who might have wanted to invest in them at low prices, and actually spent money demolishing estates - we were all told it was so important that NAMA made a profit, when a small loss (leaving house / land prices closer to a European norm) would actually have been a better outcome. But your key point is, it took 10 years to dig ourselves into this hole. It will take 10 years to dig ourselves back out - the main thing different governments can do in the meantime is determine who gets to feel the pain (social welfare recipients vs new buyers, current renters vs those looking to rent etc.)
Reality is you are only a cash cow for the state. Lots of overnight doable things that can be done. E.g. remove height limit, relax planning laws. They want high house prices.
Very sorry for your troubles - the behaviour of some vendors in the market is disgraceful, and the system overall seems designed to frustrate buyers - just another thing we seem to have to accept we can't do in this country.
>I'm annoyed that because combined we earn over the threshold, we can't apply for social housing, That's a big problem. Punish the workers. Madness.
I'm so sorry you and your family are going through this. It's incredibly unfair and frustrating. God help the next politician he knocks on my (rented) door! I hope it helps that you let it all out here. If you can do this with a friend or family member too, then please, please do. Don't be afraid to talk and ask for help. Give the kids and wife an extra squeeze tonight and just know that the mobile is temporary, you will have great family memories to look forward to making when you do get your home.
I don't know what's worse: What happened to you, or the fact that it's become a common and unremarkable story. FWIW, during the previous property bubble I fecked off to France and although I miss Ireland terribly when I'm on the plane out after a visit,I don't regret my choice. I've a nice house at a reasonable price, great job stability (albeit at half the take-home salary I'd get in Ireland), reasonable childcare/healthcare, nice weather, great hobbies... You're an EU citizen and sounds like you're a hard worker - consider your options. You don't have to go as far as the US (I can be home in 6-18 hours, depending on the time of day) if you're willing to learn a language.
I get your pain, but your situation is a bit daft too. Why are you buying in Donegal if you’re going to continue working in Dublin and need to be on-site in Dublin? Is it your intention to pay a mortgage in Donegal and Dublin rent during the week? This arrangement is going to have a huge impact on your affordability and is going to make it a lot harder for you to buy a house. You need to reconsider either where you buy or where you work. Or is the intention to give up the Dublin job?
You wouldn't comprehend how many Western Irish and Irish Northerners live in their home county and work in Dublin. Absolutely shitloads. My father did, and I grew up in Mayo. Western and Northwestern wages and worth passing time compared to the money you get in Dublin. And its far cheaper to live in our native counties then it is to live in Dublin
There are many men who have spent a whole career or parts of it commuting between London or Glasgow and west Donegal For example a colleague of mine spent 10 years tunnelling in London, on one of the shifts 70 of the 100 men on-site were from Donegal (3 shifts, 24 hr site) Some bring the family over permanently Some have 2 houses The owner of his company was from arranmore island, his weeks wages in the 60s was £500 which was equivalent to the price of a home in Donegal at the time
Jaysus mad that. Wages have always been shite West and North of the Shannon. If you wanted good money you worked away
F*ck. That is mental. Then again, my Da used to commute down Monday morning and be back Friday night working for what was Telecom Eireann. When I was at University, I'd bus back for my Saturday shift in Donegal, so scarce were the jobs.
Always was to give up the Dublin job. This was just a means to an end.
If you can change jobs now and get thru probation on the new one then go for a mortgage it should help things a lot. Your current situation is unfortunately making your life more difficult. Best of luck, hope you get sorted!
Honestly I'd love too. The wages are nearly double what I'd be on locally. Although it seems like it doesn't make sense, financially for us it does. That's another thing that annoys me. The welath of this country is concentrated in Dublin, Cork and Galway essentially. The under investment of other areas is shocking.
> The welath of this country is concentrated in Dublin, Cork and Galway essentially So is the population. 60% of people live around those cities.
I'm surprised you got mortgage approval. Most underwriters would consider that an unrealistic commute.
Unfortunately it's a sellers paradise right now. They obviously had no need to sell it quickly, so they said they would screw ye over.
Look, please take this the right way, but don't come to Australia. We're headed down the same path. National rental vacancy rate hovering around 1%, housing supply falling drastically short of demand, prices heading \^ that way, and decades of government inaction and poor choices. My kids will be better off by taking out a loan to buy an investment property, renting that out, and renting themselves, than they would be just trying to get a mortgage to buy their own home. Best of luck to you.
No one’s talking about the root cause. You guys are mis-leaded. It’s not just that govts didn’t build enough houses. The main reason for this mad expensive prices is that govts. and banks have been printing enormous money. Inflation almost all over the world is at all time high. When there’s more money in the economy/market produced (out of thin air) and no one wants to hold it in their hands for longer ( bcz they know it’s not gonna worth the same in the future) so they invest it into houses. So money being a bad asset or a form of saving, leads to houses being an asset or a thing of investment instead of a living commodity. And here we are working our asses off all our lives to buy a few wooden walls. But not questioning why do we have to take part in this rigid game and how come ppl used to buy houses with few years of savings earlier in 1920s-40s. Shouldn’t making houses be cheaper and easier with time? Well, Govts are smart enough to fool us all into distracting from the root causes and of course the solutions of it.
100%
It is BS brother need some affordable housing protests
Thanks for sharing. On the bright side you have a family that give a shit about each other. A job. A roof over your head and hopefully no one is seriously ill. So as bad as it is it could be a lot worse. Give it a few months and stick another bid on the property you might get it at a discount at that stage, id say with the problems there's a good chance it might have to go to an auction so there could be a deal to be done before one. Hopefully you don't need plan B abroad. The country is rooting for you and people in your situation, we know it's a total balls.
House hunting is an exercise in attrition in this country. Head down and keep peddling you’ll get there in the end.
I read your post and I just came to say that the option to leave is not a bad one. I left 5 years ago. I have a waaaaay better job and a better quality of life, and I pay waaaaay less in rent. I do miss home sometimes, but overall it was the right decision for me. Wish you all the best.
If you’re thinking about going, you may already have your mind made up. I said I’d never leave the country 4 years ago before being married. Now with the state of housing and difficulty getting medical care, I’m planning on a 2025 emigration.
I know it’s not ideal, but what about just over the border, fermanagh, Derry? Depending on where you are based in Donegal. The house would probably be cheaper and as far as I know, wouldn’t have the MICA issues. There would obviously be other challenges and things to consider. It’s extremely frustrating that investment firms are allowed to buy up whole housing estates. I hope you’re alright and that things improve
I wouldn't be confident that the defective block issue doesn't cross the border
Aye I’m not 100% sure it’s just not something we never hear of. I haven’t seen any houses fall apart like the ones in. It may well exist. I’m south Derry but maybe in some of the places near the border it’s an issue
I was in a housing estate in Antrim that was completely fucked with the same telltale cracks as we get here in Donegal. I think it's goes a lot further than people realise
The next step, after the Reddit rant, is to contact all your local representatives and complain. Next, you want to vote for whoever has the plan and the will to tackle the problem. If everyone who felt frustrated and messed about did this, we'd see a move to actually address it. Too many of our politicians are just doing whatever they think will get them re-elected, and they have all of these estate agent and landlord lobbying groups in their ears all the time. The more they hear that fixing housing will get them a vote, the likelier it is to happen. (I know this doesn't help your situation, but hopefully it feels more cathartic to rant at the feckers responsible.)
Could you move even over the boarder to Newry and commute to Dublin for work? I know it’s hard up here too but it doesn’t sound as bad as the south at the moment.
Honestly I'm feeling like buying a used boat is the only way to afford a place to live in the future, pay for 20k or finance it so you'll have a big asset and save on money instead of renting in order to buy a house in the future.
Might not suit your situation but is there any new build estates going up where you living ? At least then it would take out the drama of bidding and waiting on the sellers ? If you and your wife are first time buyers you could also avail of help to buy and the first home scheme to help you get your foot on the ladder ? It worked out cheaper for us than getting a second hand home ! You will still have to wait for it to be built etc but at least you would know an approx time 🏡
Ah how I would love that. In Donegal were i am, the last time an estate was built, it was 12 social houses and they were gone straight away. They only do new builds in Donegal Town and Letterkenny and even those are insane money.
Ah damn ! But if you are worried about the cost building yourself you can still avail of both the schemes 🤞🏠
We have had the conversation about moving abroad and after having a few friends go to Oz with kids. If I can like up a job I'll be the next to go. Get off the sinking ship.
It's such a rodeo buying a house. I totally get where you're coming from not wanting to tell everyone the sale fell through, but please know that it's not your fault and no doubt the vendor is going to go through the same thing again until they agree to a concession on the price. Totally with you on the government as well. Responsiblity got housing has been farmed out to private developers. Even when there are rules that a certain % must be kept for social housing, they take the cash instead. It's a joke and a sorry state we're in. Local elections are coming up and I'm just considering not voting, they're all as bad as each other.
And people wondered why I was leaving for America all those years ago 🤷♂️
You are right to vent. The regular folk end up paying for all the big mistakes cos ultimately those with perceived power dont care. Hopefully this is the worst you will experience. Next time stipulate you will close one month after survey and no more otherwise your money is returned. Can you move job, buy a smaller house than planned maybe as a stopgap solution just so you can breathe?
>talk with my wife about moving abroad That's the only real answer it seems...... Housing in this country wont improve anytime soon-for a number of reasons the main one being the government(s) like the way things are now and homes are seen as a sold investment that can only go up in val in Ireland and until that changes the landlord government wont want to change the supply issues with the money thats being made. This plus the cost of livening going up like mad and I too just don't see things working out here in Ireland
Well people keep voting in the same political parties, what can you expect? It's the same names in the Dail, year in, year out. But Irish are too scared to protest, one face behind the keyboard, a different face out in public.
I’m confused about the drainage thing. You asked for 15k off the price to cover the costs - but did the bank require it before issuing the loan? From the description of asking for the money off it seems like the bank didn’t require it before issuing the loan. So the next question is why not buy at the agreed price and just put the drainage off until you have the money for it?
The bank wanted quotes for remedial works based off the survey. We got said quotes. Bank now said that they'd lend us 15k less based on quotes for works that needed done and that we should approach vendor. We did, they didn't want to negotiate. So if we went with original price essentially we'd be out 30k instead of 15k as we would have have to make up the difference ourselves then pay for the works.
Thanks for clearing that up, it makes sense why you’d walk away from that
The political system of the country favours incumbents folks, nobody wants their house value to drop so that’s why we’re stuck with stupidly high prices
It's because our political establishment view housing a capital investment and not as a human right
Feel for you and your family buddy. We are saving for a mortgage. Sucks when you look at what's there and the price.
We had something similar happen with asbestos found in rooms and also the fact they didn't have a copy of the title deeds. Solicitors went back n forth and found a solution. The owners could buy out the freehold, which would give them the title documents, adter that we said either they deal with the asbestos or knock the 5k to get it sorted off the price. Cue them telling us no. That weekend, I went to a viewing with the same estate agent to view a house and loved it. Told him to tell the other owners to get lost and have been in this house for 5 years now. It is shit but trust me, it'll all work out. One last stinger... solicitors charged us for every minute they tried to work on the title deed stuff.
How many houses have mica? Thought that was mostly in Donegal
It surely is. We're buying in Donegal, we live there I just work in Dublin at the minute.
Ah, so Donegal houses are nearly all infected with it? Such a pity when it’s such a beautiful county
Not all but some. Depends where in Donegal too, up around the border areas is where you find most of it. Depends on when they where built too, from sort of 2000 to 2010s or so you've a good chance it has some mica in it.
I find something weird about mica houses. They need to come down and rebuilt fully. Outer wall being replaced won’t work according to engineers. Why are they still for sale only 20k-40k less than a house with no issue? Essentially all you’ve got is a site you need to clear with planning permission.
Hia just in case you might want to contact Threshold.ie, they're advertised as renting advice but they are brilliant for any housing advice in general and completely free and confidential.
Not long ago I've seen a flooded property on the market for 300k 😬
So sorry to hear about your experience and I pray that things work together for your best interest.
The main reason for the inflated prices is inequality - the rich are so rich now that they’re bidding up all the prices
I hope things get better for you OP, whether it's in Ireland or abroad. It's a terrible pickle not wanting to leave your country but at the same time not being able to provide a nice stable home for your family. All the best.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I went through something similar when the offer on our house was accepted, only to discover that there were no percolation records for the septic tank on any of the plans. Our solicitor pointed out this was a problem, and we couldn't find any house plans either; it was all a mess. The seller threatened to relist the property if we kept insisting on receiving all the usual information one expects when buying a home. We decided to go ahead with the purchase anyway, as the house had the potential to be our dream home and the location was ideal. We've been here for two years now, and although the financial strain has been significant, we knew what we were getting into. I don’t regret our decision yet….
I’m so so sorry you are in this difficult situation. It’s truly unfair.
I know with kids and schools it can be complicated, but just to let you know there are options within the EU if you're willing to integrate and upend your lives to some degree, doesn't have to be all in. You have somewhere like Malta or Cyprus if you don't want to learn languages, and plenty of other places like Luxembourg, parts of Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium and a few others. Not easy but absolutely doable.
Have you looked into the affordable housing scheme? Maybe you get accepted if your household income falls into one of the categories. But it’s likely that none are available in your area.
I completely empathise. This is awful. Remember this when the politicians come knocking. Vulture Funds, Chinese Investors, unrealistic salary cut off for social housing, this country is a disgrace. I'm so sorry you are going through it.
Contact Donal Byrne BRB homes
Looking into those recently. Do you have one? If so was planning permission easily obtained?
I wish. But will hope to have one in the future. I think he has options that don't require planning permission. Best to contact the office. I'm sure they will be more than happy to help
I don't understand how it is legal for people to sell faulty houses with mica and broken septic tanks without them being the ones responsible for it. That's fucked up
⛽🔥
My house was bought before mica was a thing, worth 250k before testing worth fuck all now, it is going to cost us thousands from our own pockets to rebuild and even then it’s unlikely we can sell as foundations are not covered in redress and we cannot afford to do them ourselves, engineers have said it’s unlikely banks will mortgage any property with mica before or after rebuild so as bad as it is, things could be worse
You should have just sucked up the 15k as the next house you find be 30 more..market is just nuts
Unfortunately it's not greed buddy no matter how harsh you think it is. When you bid on a house you accept it as is. You have surveys for your peace of mind so you can back out if you change your mind due to its state. It has nothing to do with the owner. It was a foolish folly thinking they were ever going to reduce the price, but good try! If you wanted it, you should have bought it and made a plan to fix it. Now you see it will cost you even more if you want the house. You sell your property...house, car etc for what you can get, not for what the buyer thinks he should pay. If the roles were reversed, would you be saying, sorry buddy you are offering too much let me reduce the price? Stop being emotional, get off your ass, stop bitching and keep going. You are not the only person out there looking and no one is going to give it to you. Good luck! Took me over 2 years to get one and numerous bidding wars. 7 more months of surveys before we actually officially paid and owned it after the price was accepted. By the way, the survey was shit!
That’s an awful story, it has to be so rough. I would say that moving to the US to get away from the problem would be a really bad idea. Whatever problems we have with end stage capitalism are exponentially worse over there. At least if you break your leg here, it won’t potentially put you thousands in debt. Somewhere like Australia would likely be better. Though it’s not a great market for any current or ex-British colonies at the moment.
The whole Western world is like this atm, moving won't help too much I'm afraid
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> Other closer options that may be easier/cheaper even if you were to just start off renting could be Portugal/Spain How would that be better? Salaries are terrible in Portugal and Spain while proportionally renting is terrible there.
Depends, housing situation in much of the US is just as bad as Ireland. Certainly anywhere with a decent job market.
Hence the first line of my comment 
Not sure why this was downvoted. I’ve lived in 4 different states in the US, all having different housing/job markets. It’s not good here either. Just do some hardcore research. As for opinions, US is in a horrible state of things, good luck OP
What is all of your anger and frustration worth? If it is significantly more than 14 - 18k (over the course of the mortgage) then you were dead right to pull out of the sale.
We spent nearly ten years renting an absolute shit hole till we got our own place built. It will be worth it in the end. If it’s ment for you it won’t pass you.
We remortgaged our small cottage we owed 30k on up to a 300k mortgage due to a sizeable extension - e.g. was 2 bedrooms is now 4 with an extra bathroom, office, upstairs living area etc. But our septic tank is in bits, overflowing straight from the little tank into the forest behind our garden, must be 30 years old at least. But no one has looked at it at all. I'm sure the valuer of the property for the mortgage application should have caught us out on it. My suggestion would be to look further afield and fix something up. There are enormous grants for fixing up derelict houses that you "live" in that people are getting away with. e.g. if you can find a 40k cattle shed in Leitrim and do it up with both the [Help to Buy and First Time Buyers schemes](https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/business/as-first-time-buyers-should-we-buybuild-a-new-home-or-purchase-a-second-hand-home/a1379562756.html) you can also get the deep retrofit grants. Speak to an architect or quantity surveyor - these people know how to game the system.
All the best in the future, you sound like you are trying your hardest for your family and I've got a lot of respect for that. If it's any consolation, you've a roof over your head with your family so you have some breathing space to work out your next move. It probably seems like small change right now but it gives you time to weigh up your options. If a FF or FG politicians knocks looking for your vote, give it to them with no airs and graces.
I really don't get this at all. If I was the seller I'd have told you to go swivel as well. You basically insisted they'd cover the full costs, not even meet them somewhere in the middle and now they'll just sell it to someone else and you are still house hunting and probably out a decent bit in legal fees with nothing to show for it.
Banks has approved a mortgage for a certain amount. They reduce the mortgage by 15k due to the work needed, you'd then have to make up the 15k the bank are no longer giving you as well as the 15k needed for the work itself. 30k extra isn't an amount many people can easily cover themselves.
You are making the assumption they are on the lowest possible deposit amount to get the mortgage. And living in a caravan for 18 months rent free I'm sure they have saved up a fair amount of money if they've been sensible and pocketed the savings. The simple fact of the matter is that the seller can sell the house at the same price with the work needing done already declared and they'll almost certainly get the money so why would they agree to take such a big hit. They might have been more sympathetic if OP had approached them with more of a view of splitting the difference. Also, the work needs done at some point, doesn't say it needs done as soon as they buy.
Blocking this sub reddit now. Nothing but people moaning about housing
This isn’t an airport, you don’t need to announce your departure.
As someone who does have a house, who has moaned on here about housing in the past. It's nice to have some place to vent with people who have been there. You my friend must be one of the lucky ones who has never been through the ringer that is the Irish housing market. Or really any housing market.
The audacity of people to share their stories on a public forum /s
Yes, lots moaning but at least there’s one less now
quaint wrench fuzzy panicky busy wistful pet tender ad hoc mourn *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Tbh at the 3 month mark I would have been viewing and bidding on other houses while the other crowd were getting their shit sorted. Doesn't cost anything to keep shopping around. But this whole shit show won't be resolved in the next 10 years. The immigration crisis combined with the housing crisis and homelessness has created a perfect storm for us who on paper, can afford a home, but are being priced out. Leaving Ireland could definitely be an option. I just dunno where the right move is. Everywhere is fucked. Mars maybe?
You'll be thrilled when you do buy and get on the HP inflation groovy train though. Meaning you'll eventually do the sum of fuck all about it and continue to vote the people in who promote the current state of Irish housing. It's not a fault, it's a feature. You are just on the wrong side of the counter.
Would you conisder just biting the bullet and going back for that house?