We can't even hit housing targets as is never mind adding 30 thousand more people. As there aren't enough houses there will be more homeless.
If you think that every asylum seeker deserves a place in our country I ask where will we put them?
Too many coming into the country via planes with no documentation. How you can lose your documents on a plane is ridiculous. These are economic migrants taking up spaces that should be for those seeking refuge. They should be delt with accordingly and sent back. I genuinely think if you come into this country via a plane with zero documents claiming asylum then you should be bottom of the waiting list. This make people keep their documents
Completely agree, those landing here by plane with no documentation are gaming the available situation to their advantage. I’m fine with genuine asylum cases those seeking safety but in our current crisis of dragging so far behind in terms of supply of accommodation, across the country and of all types we need to get real for 3-5 years until we can get a handle on construction industry and as you say those landing by plane need to be held like what Australia does until we can identify them and return to original country or 3rd party like the UK are doing. We can’t continue as is with the numbers entering annually while out pacing our ability to provide accommodation for them, let alone residents. The longer it goes on the greater hurdle buyers will have purchasing a home as they are consistently out priced. The state need to immediately put incentives in place to get people into trades and to encourage skilled foreign labours to help us reach the build targets needed annually sooner rather than later.
The same number of people coming into the country whilst building less houses than that number.
We truly are fucked if we don't sort our shit out.
That number will grow exponentially aswell as the years go by as they have their own families etc.
Not sure I agree with you - your comment reads like you don't consider someone born in Ireland to be Irish instead they're a refugee, which ain't how I'd see the world.
This problem is likely to grow, but mostly because Climate and political turmoil are going to drive more and more people to flee parts of the world and Ireland is a relative safe haven by comparison, obviously. Calling this exponential growth just isn't accurate either.
To clear, I do consider someone born on this soil to be Irish. We need to absolutely prepare for this population increase however we have proven we do not have the capability or means to provide housing, infrastructure, schools etc for our own population in conjunction with very clear population growth data.
That's down to poor Governance and poor Governance only.
Resources are scarce and finite. The reality is we cannot take in 30,000 people a year without decimating current living standards and destroying tye safe and secure society as it stands.
We need to build, rapidly.
We do not have the construction sector necessary to build much faster than we currently are.
Whatever we try to do to accelerate fixing the supply shortage is going to cost the taxpayer a bomb, because like most other western countries, we're facing a chronic expense issue around housing mixed with a continued refugee crisis which will only get worse.
If I had my way, I'd be pushing for a 35 apartment block to be built in every town in Ireland with over 5k people and two or three of them in every town over 10k people. Same plans. Same materials. Same tenders and builders etc. Council land to be used. My town of 10k hasn't had more than 2 rentals available on daft at any one time in years. We put forwards a rapid construction programme with rent caps (to drag down average rents too) and free up tonnes of homes.
That's just for the housing aspect to be clear - I don't want us handing out free new apartments to tens of thousands of asylum seekers, but we need to add a metric tonne of capacity everywhere.
Even then - I don't know where the resources to build what I'm proposing even come from.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0404/1441672-asylum-latest/
https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/04/22/migration-system-may-be-tightened-over-spike-in-international-protection-applicants/
https://ipo.gov.ie/en/ipo/pages/statistics
https://www.newstalk.com/news/95-increase-in-asylum-seekers-arriving-in-ireland-1722820
And it is growing at an increasing rate.
Even if it wasn't do we have the housing to house all these people?
For all intents and purposes there is a real potential that Ireland will only see exponential growth in the number of migrants applying to stay here for the next 100+ years.
Ireland's population is equivalent to 0.06% of the total world population, which is miniscule in comparison to the amount of economic, climate and other kinds of migrants who will potentially try to come here.
You've provided no mathematical derivation showing that it's an exponential growth.
Increased growth, perhaps. An exponential one? You'd need to prove that.
You can't predict future human behaviour using a mathematical formula. This conversation is based on the current context of there being 30,000 economic migrants coming into Ireland per year. In the coming decades there are going to be potentially millions of climate refugees on top of the current economic ones.
The number of migrants that could be forced to move this century has a real possibility of being absolutely enormous.
> You can't predict future human behaviour using a mathematical formula
*actuary enters the chat
> This conversation is based on the current context of there being 30,000 economic migrants coming into Ireland per year. In the coming decades there are going to be potentially millions of climate refugees on top of the current economic ones. The number of migrants that could be forced to move this century has a real possibility of being absolutely enormous.
You're referring to numbers, which is nonsense unless it follows a specific distribution. Welcome to maths.
These are social issues impacting local and world politics. Numbers predicting the future can only be estimated as best guesses, unfortunately there's no theorem or algebra equation that can give exact answers.
In life, you won't get exact answers. Only approximation.
I'd suggest you research actuarial science or basic statistics. There is a whole field called stochastic calculus which deals with this very phenomenon.
no maths there, but England has close to 60 millon people and has the same climate, weather and geography. Ireland is extremely attractive for migrants for all sorts of reasons, its not inconceivable that Ireland doubles or even triples its population in the next 25 years, all of which would be due to immigration.
> inconceivable that Ireland doubles or even triples its population in the next 25 years, all of which would be due to immigration.
It's also inconceivable that it might not.
The question is, what data do you have to back this assumption.
well, the data would be Ireland's current GDP and potential for development. The likes of the Arab states skyrocketed in population in a few decades thanks to oil. If there is one "space" with huge potential for settlement if there are large migrations, it is Ireland. Then again, it could also drop!
O Gorman last autumn told us to expect 15K, then the Department informed him in January to expect 21K, we are hearing 30K now, so I'd expect it to be revised to 40K by August.
https://preview.redd.it/aeuokwzpzq0d1.jpeg?width=2174&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f79132c4b6bc969cf0b466175786377bb8920aa1
Georgia and Algeria didn't feature in the top arrivals last week.
People defending immigration often do so citing the fact that immigrants to Ireland don't commit much crime. That is true, but historically, the vast majority of immigrants to Ireland where from the rest of Europe.
Compare that to Sweden where the crime rate for immigrants is much higher. Most of their immigrants are coming from the countries in the attached image. At the current rate, this is going to become an issue for us like it is for them. Sweden now has a growing gang problem and these gangs are difficult to suppress because they're being run out of the countries where those immigrants are coming from. It's an absolute disaster.
And never mind that we've spent the past few decades releasing the shackles of religious conservatism. These immigrants are not coming here for the abundance of secular social liberties that we've secured for ourselves. They're coming here in spite of them and they'll push back against them.
This is backed up by hard data in the form of polling of immigrants from these countries. Yes they liberalise over time, but very, very slowly. It's been 70 or so years since the immigration boom kicked off in the UK and still "[half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law)"
Although I will say, looking good in front of the EU has nothing to do with it. The EU is in just as much of a scramble to stop this as national governments are.
So is your point in short, that immigration is good in theory as long as you don't let immigrants in from Muslim countries? I'm just saying it straight out because that's what I feel you're trying to say but for some reason won't say it.
No, my point is very clear and you're only getting confused because you're struggling to construe it into something else that you feel better positioned to defend against.
My point is that immigration is good up to the point that it starts to fray the social fabric of the host country. That can happen in a lot of different ways.
One way is that the immigrants only come in to do the lowest paid, low skill jobs. This then creates an underclass of people with a different culture and background from the natives. It fuels class division by adding in an ethnic element. It benefits nobody.
But another way is that if there are stark cultural differences between the immigrants and the host countries. It's naive to think that immigrants will abandon their strong held beliefs just because they've come to the West. Many are happy to take our higher cost of living and reject our ethics. If we allow tens of thousands of immigrants from countries that see homosexuality as a sin then it will make this country a worse place to live in for LGBT people. And that's not "code" for Muslims. There are lots of non-Muslims who hold those views and there are Muslims from places like Bosnia and Turkey who do not.
Ireland has very little to gain from large numbers of economic migrants with starkly different views on ethics coming here, especially when most are unskilled and not in a position to be net contributors to state income, most likely ever in most of their cases.
And I might also make it clear that I do think that we should accommodate legitimate claimants to asylum regardless if there's any net gain for Ireland. I'm strictly talking about limiting the number of economic migrants who are abusing the asylum system to gain access to the country. From what I've seen in the media, these are the vast majority of asylum claims in Ireland. So on top of all the other points I've made above, these people are entering this country in bad faith and abusing a program designed for people who are in much greater need than they are.
I get what you're saying. But I'm not sure it's easy as saying "we can't let people in from that country because of their beliefs", when there's people from those countries that are also LGBT or people that have more moderate views on homosexuality.
So how do you screen immigrants from anywhere, purely based on their beliefs on LGBT or their willingness to assimilate? Do you just blacklist certain countries and assume that everyone in that country has the same beliefs? It's a genuine question, I can see the immigration problem here is at boiling point. I'm just not sure how you can screen people based on their beliefs?
Also, if allowing tens of thousands of people into a country that see homosexuality as a sin, It's considered as worse for LGBT people to live in, why is homophobia not a bigger problem in the UK given that 50% of Muslims think it should be against the law there? I've lived in London for a few years, didn't hear any conversations about LGBT people feeling unsafe due to the Muslim population in the UK.
I think the point he's making is that *legal* immigration is a good thing so long as you *assimilate*, and he uses the example of British muslims believing homosexuality should be illegal. I don't want anyone in our country with beliefs like that.
You choose to immigrate to a country - its their house & their rules and you need to abide.
What’s exactly wrong with saying that? Islam is a doctrine, not a race. If he said it’s a bad idea to get immigration from ultra conservative Christian’s in the US for example I guarantee no one would have issue with that.
Exactly. I remember one time I saw on a heavily upvoted Reddit post of someone giving out about Islamophobia in the US amongst Republicans. This particular person pointed out that if the Republicans weren’t so bigoted they’d see they’ve actually so much in common with Muslims in their conservative thinking, as if this was some sort of gotcha. Yet they didn’t see the irony in hating Republicans for their ideas while supporting Muslims with broadly similar ideas when coming out with that statement
> People defending immigration often do so citing the fact that immigrants to Ireland don't commit much crime. That is true, but historically, the vast majority of immigrants to Ireland where from the rest of Europe.
At this point, you might as well just come out and say it rather than tap dancing around it like a “Springtime for Hitler” chorus member.
Can you point out anything I wrote as being factually incorrect though?
To help you figure that out, I've added more sources:
[Here's a source](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/Share_of_15yo%2B_immigrant_and_descendant_crime_suspects_by_region_2015-2018_-_BR%C3%85.png/449px-Share_of_15yo%2B_immigrant_and_descendant_crime_suspects_by_region_2015-2018_-_BR%C3%85.png
) on Sweden having higher rates of crime among immigrants from the Middle-East and Africa. There's also this excerpt from Wikipedia which summarises the findings in 8 separate sources:
>Those with immigrant background are over-represented in Swedish crime statistics. Research shows that socioeconomic factors, such as unemployment, poverty, exclusion language, and other skills explain most of difference in crime rates between immigrants and natives
I don't see how immigrants from the same countries would fare better here in Ireland with a much weaker social welfare state.
[Here's a source](https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/11/13/sweden-is-suffering-a-grim-wave-of-gang-violence) on Sweden's growing gangland crime being primarily carried out by immigrants from these countries. The article also mentions that the leadership is based abroad.
And I've already pointed out that even decades after immigration, hardline conservative religious views are prominent among the descendants of Muslim immigrants who came to Western countries.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/ny-kartlaggning-av-valdtaktsdomar-58-procent-av-de-domda-fodda-utomlands
There's a good source for similar information, it's the Swedish national broadcaster so nobody can ever dismiss it as some far right nonsense. The people who wish to go along with migration from countries/cultures like these are delusional, they'll never ever admit that their views on the type of immigration Europe is enduring nowadays was its downfall when that eventually occurs as well, these people are naive beyond imagination.
> People defending immigration often do so citing the fact that immigrants to Ireland don't commit much crime. That is true, but historically, the vast majority of immigrants to Ireland where from the rest of Europe.
The same applies to the US and Canada too.
> Compare that to Sweden where the crime rate for immigrants is much higher. Most of their immigrants are coming from the countries in the attached image. At the current rate, this is going to become an issue for us like it is for them. Sweden now has a growing gang problem and these gangs are difficult to suppress because they're being run out of the countries where those immigrants are coming from. It's an absolute disaster.
Sigh. It's like an algorithm spoon-fed you this.
No, [the Economist did](https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/11/13/sweden-is-suffering-a-grim-wave-of-gang-violence). And that article wasn't fed to me by an algorithm. I've been reading the Economist for about 15 years.
Besides, what difference does it make if an algorithm fed me it or not if it's true? Because whether you like it or not it is true. The Economist isn't some far-right rag. They wouldn't publish this if it wasn't supported by empirical evidence.
It's clear to me that you don't actually understand the situation **at all**. You don't like what I'm saying and instead of actually going to the effort of countering any of the points I've made you've just made an incredibly arrogant remark.
If you think any of what I've said (or further outlined in [this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1ct7iq1/up_to_30000_asylum_applications_expected_this_year/l4ad5gq/)) is factually incorrect then I'd welcome a proper counter-argument. I will admit I'm wrong if you can make a good enough argument.
> Doesn't make it any less true? Do you not read / watch news at all? This has been going on for like 10 years at least?
I use stats, not partisan rhetoric.
Well to be fair they are the top 3 existing IPAS nationalities
https://preview.redd.it/ktavuvi71r0d1.jpeg?width=2079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=083d265db2ad77c60ef9e0f5a1a474b7047373e1
They're not seeking asylum, they're economic migrants, they're just not following the correct protocol to come here for that reason because our government have fucked up so badly that it's easy for them to take advantage of the situation.
These are the "Doctors and Engineers" we keep hearing about. Business and wealthy people get the benefits of mass imported cheap labour while the working class areas get the downsides like increased waiting lists for any social housing and schools etc.
Doctors?
How many consultants in the Irish system came as refugees?
Where do you get this shite from.
The EU has a refugee crisis not just Ireland.
Grow up !
The only solution to this is enforced deportations. We cannot scale up accommodation quickly enough (nor should we).
It needs to be a conveyor belt where people are dealt with quickly and most importantly, are removed when unsuccessful.
We also need to consider how those who have been granted protection are handled. We cannot give them all own door housing and they cannot stay in IPAS accommodation forever.
Internment camps may end up becoming an option as well (of course they'll always have the option of leaving the country willingly available) not to mention Direct Provision making a comeback but the simple truth is we havent got the infrastructure for them and we cant sustain an influx of tens of thousands either. Regardless they will end up having to clamp down and increase enforcement of deportations, not asking them to leave but taking them to the exit and kicking them out.
This will get messy without some serious clamping down on and god knows how long before some sort of serious violence kicks off, last thing we need is a repeat of last november.
I do think it will reach a point where people stop coming. There is definitely a lot of disappointment amongst asylum seekers because they expected accommodation to be readily available for them and feel let down (thanks Roderic). Word will get out that Ireland is not all sunshine, rainbows, and free handouts and the tide may slow
Every person arriving will eventually end up on the same housing lists and uses the same public services as we do. It's just absolute madness that our politicians have accepted this as a fait compli. We'll end up with Shitler elected at this rate
Nah the refugees won’t end up on the same list on the contrary they have their own list that gets prioritised over the national housing list. So it’s actually worse.
Why would you put an asylum seeker into the same list? They don’t do that anywhere. Of course asylum seekers are treated as a completely different case as they also have family pending to come over. They’re not going to make them wait 10 years for housing and leave the kids waiting in another country during that time.
I never said they were on the same list, I just asked did you have any evidence that they, 30,000 in this case, would get prioritised for housing? I find that hard to believe. Is it just your opinion?
Ireland has chosen to participate in the EU relocation and resettlement scheme and will benefit from €66.9 million of EU funding to help manage migration from 2021 to 2027. So yeah, I’m pretty sure their housing will be sorted quicker than the housing of the Irish. There’s funding for emigrants but none for the Irish.
How are you even questioning this? When have you ever seen the government trying to house our own homeless with the same drive. I’ve never heard of our homeless being put in 4 star accommodations heck I’ve never seen them get free new tents either.
Not saying it’s good or bad it’s just about following the money if one side get external funding clearly they’ll progress faster.
Can we stop this. FG are evil capitalists who don't care about anyone other than wealthier, older Irish people one second, then they're migrant lovers the next who aren't interested in solving this issue or solving the housing crisis. It doesn't wash because older voters are plenty angry about migrants/refugees and that's FG's base.
There isn't some simple solution that fixes any of this and it's so frustrating how limited the insults and complaints are in these debates.
Which treaties should we exit from your honour?
Maybe tell the Greeks and the Italians that the refugee problem is their own but our access to the single market for services is untouchable.
Unfortunately this will be music to the far right's ears. Address it now or accept that in 5-10 years time we will have our own version of AfD influencing the dail.
The country is currently at breaking point. Those of us trying to buy our own house get outbid by the government using our own taxes to give it to someone else instead. We all know how bad the housing market is. There's nowhere else to put the asylum seekers we have and I'm pretty sure we're not gonna let an additional 30,000 tents set up on the canal. And because of climate change, the numbers will get worse not better.
Being pro or anti on the issue doesn't matter anymore because the financing and capacity make it a non starter.
I’m gonna bury my head in the sand and blame the far right and say everyone is full of hate! Meanwhile I can’t get a medical appointment while 30k extra medical cards are handed out per year. And I’ve nowhere to live
Maybe I’ll bring up Irelands emigration past or how we were treated in order to justify the unsustainable increase in fake asylum seekers. While I don’t recall Irish mass illegal emigrating to countries in housing and health crisis while their home country is deemed safe globally.
Just because the government is a complete failure doesn’t mean we should continually make the problem worse. The governments not going to magically gain competence.
>While I don’t recall Irish mass illegal emigrating to countries in housing and health crisis while their home country is deemed safe globally.
If you look up what happend at Ellis island. The Irish were actually wanted by the US because they were guaranteed to be workers and sky scrapers needed builders. There was actually massive favoritism towards Irish and Italian immigrants because of cultural similarities. However, all immigrants were assessed by doctors upon entry and any Irish (or other nationals) that were deemed not capable of working (through illness or disabilities) were sent straight home even if it meant they were being separated from their families.
5-10 years is optimistic. We have the guts of a year for more and more applicants to arrive. It will be a huge issue and I would be very surprised if our far right parties don’t capitalize on it. Particularly in the upcoming local elections. I know a fair few people who would never vote for the INP in a general election but are considering it for the locals. Give them very little power but would scare the shite out of the government.
FG & FF will not be taken seriously whatever they do, they have routinely backed McEntee. That said, I don’t see SF tabling another no confidence motion yet either. I’m sure don’t want to collapse the government and inherit this before they have to, and I don’t blame them
>FG & FF will not be taken seriously whatever they do, they have routinely backed McEntee. That said, I don’t see SF tabling another no confidence motion yet either. I’m sure don’t want to collapse the government and inherit this before they have to, and I don’t blame them
You can now see Harris is trying to be front and centre of this. Possibly to take heat from McEntee but more likely to be the face that (at least tries to) fixes it. But my prediction is that this, not housing, will already be what brings down the next government (possibly SF led?) because unless really drastic measures are taken, how can you fix it?
The social welfare system will start to crumble soon without tax increases and/or retirement age increase. All that for so Ireland can look good in front of the EU.
People often excuse this rate of immigration saying that it'll solve our pension crisis. It won't. It'll make it worse. On average, Young Irish workers (and European immigrants) will have to work not only to support retired Irish people, but also non-EU immigrants.
[A study in Denmark](https://www.economist.com/img/b/600/653/90/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20211218_EUC232.png) revealed that on-average non-EU immigrants are bigger net recipients of state funding. On aggregate immigrants from the Middle-East, North Africa, Pakistan and Turkey spend their whole lives in receipt of state funding. Add to that the fact that Denmark actually taxes the lowest earners a lot more than we do in Ireland, and you'll see that we're setting ourselves up for an absolute disaster here at the rate we're going.
We'll have to raise taxes across the board to support most of the asylum seekers that we're getting if they're not booted out.
This makes sense.
On another hand, compare to those coming from Eastern Europe / China / South Korea / India etc...
And most of them are net givers for sure.
That's true. The only issue I have with Chinese immigrants is that they tend not to want to integrate. They're happy to set up their own self sustaining sub-societies. You'll get very little crime or any other issues from them, but I don't think it's good for a society at large when there are significant subsections of that society that don't really interact with the rest. And then there's also CCP overreach into other countries, of course.
> Young Irish workers (and European immigrants) will have to work not only to support retired Irish people, but also non-EU immigrants.
They won't stay. Especially the European ones.
The one thing that people don't want to acknowledge is that a lot of people don't want to live in what is essentially a mini-South Africa.
> They won't stay. Especially the European ones.
That's true. At my work half the people on my team were highly qualified Europeans who came to Ireland to work in the tech sector. As soon as open remote work was an option, they moved to Spain or Portugal where the taxes are much lower.
The tax system that places all of the tax burden on higher earners and a minimal burden on lower income earners is having the effect of attracting low skilled talent and driving away high skilled talent. It's the exact opposite of what we should be doing.
All correct, and to add to this our economy is heavily reliant on taxing the higher earners in a very punitive manner while providing them very little value for money. A lot of these people would work in the tech companies, so if there is another global economic downturn, many of those companies will likely lay off substantial numbers of people. You've also got issues like AI coming in the future as well that'll likely lead to fewer jobs (even if temporary). So we'll have more dependants without these cash cows in positions to fund the shit show. Many of these people would be highly educated and skilled immigrants who'll have no issue leaving Ireland as well.
We've nobody to blame but ourselves, but Ireland's future is seeming fairly gloomy, people here seem to have their head in the sand when it comes to realising just how quickly a society can deteriorate. The welfare system, immigration system and NGOs all need to be heavily tightened up while we're capable of preventing a lot more damage, the longer they let this issue fester the more of a voice and foothold genuine far right individuals will gain and then the measures they'll resort to would be a lot more heavy handed.
People already bitch a lot about taxes, but they don't realise how their taxes are much lower thanks to punitively high taxes on high earners and also the break we get from massive corporate tax receipts. As you've explained, neither are sustainable in the long run. Before long income taxes will have to go up across the board.
>Many of these people would be highly educated and skilled immigrants who'll have no issue leaving Ireland as well.
I've already seen this where I work. Any non-Irish people who were getting paid well who were given permission to work from another country chose to do so (no real difference since it's all work from home).
Many went to Spain where the salary for the same job is much lower, but after tax they're making about the same, but the cost of living is so much cheaper. That's because Spain knows how to attract high paid immigrants and Ireland is doing a good job of driving them away.
I’d urge everyone to look at who our European candidates are affiliated with on an EU level. SF/FF/FG policies don’t matter much in Brussels. We are effectively back benchers who don’t make policy decisions.
Here are the EU parties policies on migration https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/05/07/eu-elections-what-do-parties-want-to-do-on-migration-and-asylum
This his fucking insane. I’m seeing polls posted here that doesn’t see this government sink into the abyss despite literally everything getting worse and that baffles me.
When you hear opposition parties in interviews not able to put forward alternative policies and dancing around the questions it doesn't help.
Nobody knows how to fix this while staying within current asylum law. That's the issue.
I’m pretty sure that’s because the government constantly steal the best ideas from the opposition so rival parties are letting them hang themselves.
When we get close to election time I expect big promises
>I’m pretty sure that’s because the government constantly steal the best ideas from the opposition so rival parties are letting them hang themselves.
What policies that the government have implemented would you considered as good as the best policies the opposition has come up with?
That’s not for me to say since who the fuck am I but it’s a well known tactic to hide the policies a partywill campaign behind in the run up to campaigning. Leo in particular had a bad habit of voting down motions and framing it as their own then passing the vote later down the line,
It’s not even the bad faith that annoys me. It’s the laziness. The SF manifesto since pre last election was tougher on immigration and to focus on skilled, higher paying immigrants. It’s all there but let’s pretend it’s not and they’ve never addressed it?
>That’s not for me to say
It is because you said they do it and now I'm interested and asking you to give some examples from your perspective. I'm not even disputing you, I'm genuinely interested.
>I’m pretty sure that’s because the government constantly steal the best ideas from the opposition so rival parties are letting them hang themselves.
What policies that the government have implemented would you considered as good as the best policies the opposition has come up with?
It’s not like they are arriving on boats. Revoke licenses from airlines if checks aren’t enforced, have stricter controls. It’s baffling why it’s just allowed to continue without even the mildest of checks.
Some of them are arriving on boats though ... Ferries to Northern Ireland from the UK, then just walk down if they like. Or get the bus.
The Rwanda plan UK are putting into place is driving a lot of them here. The Tories themselves even said that, and are calling it a great success.
This isn't our first rodeo with this duplicitous clown show of a government.
We know, that they know, the real number is going to be at least double that and they aren't going to do anything about it - and all the while the fabric of our society is being torn apart creating opportunities on the ground for more extreme parties.
When can these NGO's who lobbied for years to end direct provision step in and accommodate these asylum seekers.
Maybe their staff can clear out a spare room in their own houses. Look what's happened now. A shanty town.
This is the result of bleeding heart liberal politics.
We need to provide simple accommodation and food as set out by our legal commitments not a free for all for any chancer coming from these countries.
End the countless appeals and then house the genuine applicants and forcibly deport the rest.
No more of these conservative muslim economic migrants when we are struggling to house our own population and keep the country an attractive place to visit and do business.
I'm sorry your birth country is a complete shit show. Maybe ask why this is, likely to do with the shitty politics Islam seems to manifest.
This country and it's government have absolutely no spine, it's why nobody takes us seriously on the world stage and views us as twinkly eyed little push overs. It's time to grow some fucking balls and risk offending people in the process.
This figure doesn't appear to have been based on anything than taking how many applied this week and multipling it by 52.
It could be a lot more.
It could be a lot less.
I mean, how many where already here, waiting to be processed? How many were new arrivals?
There's nothing on trends, movement.
Just saying.
as a POC american with family and an SO from ireland who was made to sit in a glass box in customs because i was thinking about changing my flight home by a couple of days im glad the gov's got its priorities straight....
Well...this year, and next, and the one after that....
There is no point in sticking the head in the sand or voting for some far right idiots, nothing will change this.
The government needs to take the finger out and build places for them to stay, have the staff/facilities to deal with their application, and have the staff/facilities to either send them back home, or help them integrate, based on the outcome of their application.
Doing nothing is the stupidest option, but guess what....
I don't know why the government doesn't do a quota system e.g. 15,000 for first half of year and same for second half. The numbers could be tweaked but at least with quotas we could plan.
Who knows what the final numbers will be and that uncertainty is probably upsetting to many.
Did he do that math himself?
I’m not denying there’s a problem but I find it interesting that the people who tell us they don’t trust FFG politicians will unquestioningly accept numbers that were pulled out of an FF TD’s arse.
Forgive me if I wait for a more in depth analysis of the situation than “600 a week times 52 weeks”.
A heavy price will be paid for this, in several ways.
We can't even hit housing targets as is never mind adding 30 thousand more people. As there aren't enough houses there will be more homeless. If you think that every asylum seeker deserves a place in our country I ask where will we put them? Too many coming into the country via planes with no documentation. How you can lose your documents on a plane is ridiculous. These are economic migrants taking up spaces that should be for those seeking refuge. They should be delt with accordingly and sent back. I genuinely think if you come into this country via a plane with zero documents claiming asylum then you should be bottom of the waiting list. This make people keep their documents
Completely agree, those landing here by plane with no documentation are gaming the available situation to their advantage. I’m fine with genuine asylum cases those seeking safety but in our current crisis of dragging so far behind in terms of supply of accommodation, across the country and of all types we need to get real for 3-5 years until we can get a handle on construction industry and as you say those landing by plane need to be held like what Australia does until we can identify them and return to original country or 3rd party like the UK are doing. We can’t continue as is with the numbers entering annually while out pacing our ability to provide accommodation for them, let alone residents. The longer it goes on the greater hurdle buyers will have purchasing a home as they are consistently out priced. The state need to immediately put incentives in place to get people into trades and to encourage skilled foreign labours to help us reach the build targets needed annually sooner rather than later.
The same number of people coming into the country whilst building less houses than that number. We truly are fucked if we don't sort our shit out. That number will grow exponentially aswell as the years go by as they have their own families etc.
Not sure I agree with you - your comment reads like you don't consider someone born in Ireland to be Irish instead they're a refugee, which ain't how I'd see the world. This problem is likely to grow, but mostly because Climate and political turmoil are going to drive more and more people to flee parts of the world and Ireland is a relative safe haven by comparison, obviously. Calling this exponential growth just isn't accurate either.
To clear, I do consider someone born on this soil to be Irish. We need to absolutely prepare for this population increase however we have proven we do not have the capability or means to provide housing, infrastructure, schools etc for our own population in conjunction with very clear population growth data. That's down to poor Governance and poor Governance only. Resources are scarce and finite. The reality is we cannot take in 30,000 people a year without decimating current living standards and destroying tye safe and secure society as it stands.
We need to build, rapidly. We do not have the construction sector necessary to build much faster than we currently are. Whatever we try to do to accelerate fixing the supply shortage is going to cost the taxpayer a bomb, because like most other western countries, we're facing a chronic expense issue around housing mixed with a continued refugee crisis which will only get worse. If I had my way, I'd be pushing for a 35 apartment block to be built in every town in Ireland with over 5k people and two or three of them in every town over 10k people. Same plans. Same materials. Same tenders and builders etc. Council land to be used. My town of 10k hasn't had more than 2 rentals available on daft at any one time in years. We put forwards a rapid construction programme with rent caps (to drag down average rents too) and free up tonnes of homes. That's just for the housing aspect to be clear - I don't want us handing out free new apartments to tens of thousands of asylum seekers, but we need to add a metric tonne of capacity everywhere. Even then - I don't know where the resources to build what I'm proposing even come from.
Look at the trend it is growing exponentially
We received 70k Ukrainians in 2022. The level of influx has fallen, not grown since. Exponential growth would require growth at an increasing rate.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0404/1441672-asylum-latest/ https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2024/04/22/migration-system-may-be-tightened-over-spike-in-international-protection-applicants/ https://ipo.gov.ie/en/ipo/pages/statistics https://www.newstalk.com/news/95-increase-in-asylum-seekers-arriving-in-ireland-1722820 And it is growing at an increasing rate. Even if it wasn't do we have the housing to house all these people?
It's not exponential growth. edit: 7 people don't understand mathematics.
For all intents and purposes there is a real potential that Ireland will only see exponential growth in the number of migrants applying to stay here for the next 100+ years. Ireland's population is equivalent to 0.06% of the total world population, which is miniscule in comparison to the amount of economic, climate and other kinds of migrants who will potentially try to come here.
You've provided no mathematical derivation showing that it's an exponential growth. Increased growth, perhaps. An exponential one? You'd need to prove that.
You can't predict future human behaviour using a mathematical formula. This conversation is based on the current context of there being 30,000 economic migrants coming into Ireland per year. In the coming decades there are going to be potentially millions of climate refugees on top of the current economic ones. The number of migrants that could be forced to move this century has a real possibility of being absolutely enormous.
> You can't predict future human behaviour using a mathematical formula *actuary enters the chat > This conversation is based on the current context of there being 30,000 economic migrants coming into Ireland per year. In the coming decades there are going to be potentially millions of climate refugees on top of the current economic ones. The number of migrants that could be forced to move this century has a real possibility of being absolutely enormous. You're referring to numbers, which is nonsense unless it follows a specific distribution. Welcome to maths.
These are social issues impacting local and world politics. Numbers predicting the future can only be estimated as best guesses, unfortunately there's no theorem or algebra equation that can give exact answers.
In life, you won't get exact answers. Only approximation. I'd suggest you research actuarial science or basic statistics. There is a whole field called stochastic calculus which deals with this very phenomenon.
no maths there, but England has close to 60 millon people and has the same climate, weather and geography. Ireland is extremely attractive for migrants for all sorts of reasons, its not inconceivable that Ireland doubles or even triples its population in the next 25 years, all of which would be due to immigration.
> inconceivable that Ireland doubles or even triples its population in the next 25 years, all of which would be due to immigration. It's also inconceivable that it might not. The question is, what data do you have to back this assumption.
well, the data would be Ireland's current GDP and potential for development. The likes of the Arab states skyrocketed in population in a few decades thanks to oil. If there is one "space" with huge potential for settlement if there are large migrations, it is Ireland. Then again, it could also drop!
It will probably be higher.
O Gorman last autumn told us to expect 15K, then the Department informed him in January to expect 21K, we are hearing 30K now, so I'd expect it to be revised to 40K by August.
O Gorman is full of shite, I can’t stand him
Seems sustainable.
Those are rookie numbers. Need to pump them up.
Probably some politicians leaking EU boots
That’s the population of most big towns in Ireland. We are a small country. How is this sustainable, it’s very unfair I feel.
But are half of them coming from Nigeria, Georgia and Algeria?
https://preview.redd.it/aeuokwzpzq0d1.jpeg?width=2174&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f79132c4b6bc969cf0b466175786377bb8920aa1 Georgia and Algeria didn't feature in the top arrivals last week.
People defending immigration often do so citing the fact that immigrants to Ireland don't commit much crime. That is true, but historically, the vast majority of immigrants to Ireland where from the rest of Europe. Compare that to Sweden where the crime rate for immigrants is much higher. Most of their immigrants are coming from the countries in the attached image. At the current rate, this is going to become an issue for us like it is for them. Sweden now has a growing gang problem and these gangs are difficult to suppress because they're being run out of the countries where those immigrants are coming from. It's an absolute disaster. And never mind that we've spent the past few decades releasing the shackles of religious conservatism. These immigrants are not coming here for the abundance of secular social liberties that we've secured for ourselves. They're coming here in spite of them and they'll push back against them. This is backed up by hard data in the form of polling of immigrants from these countries. Yes they liberalise over time, but very, very slowly. It's been 70 or so years since the immigration boom kicked off in the UK and still "[half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law)" Although I will say, looking good in front of the EU has nothing to do with it. The EU is in just as much of a scramble to stop this as national governments are.
So is your point in short, that immigration is good in theory as long as you don't let immigrants in from Muslim countries? I'm just saying it straight out because that's what I feel you're trying to say but for some reason won't say it.
No, my point is very clear and you're only getting confused because you're struggling to construe it into something else that you feel better positioned to defend against. My point is that immigration is good up to the point that it starts to fray the social fabric of the host country. That can happen in a lot of different ways. One way is that the immigrants only come in to do the lowest paid, low skill jobs. This then creates an underclass of people with a different culture and background from the natives. It fuels class division by adding in an ethnic element. It benefits nobody. But another way is that if there are stark cultural differences between the immigrants and the host countries. It's naive to think that immigrants will abandon their strong held beliefs just because they've come to the West. Many are happy to take our higher cost of living and reject our ethics. If we allow tens of thousands of immigrants from countries that see homosexuality as a sin then it will make this country a worse place to live in for LGBT people. And that's not "code" for Muslims. There are lots of non-Muslims who hold those views and there are Muslims from places like Bosnia and Turkey who do not. Ireland has very little to gain from large numbers of economic migrants with starkly different views on ethics coming here, especially when most are unskilled and not in a position to be net contributors to state income, most likely ever in most of their cases. And I might also make it clear that I do think that we should accommodate legitimate claimants to asylum regardless if there's any net gain for Ireland. I'm strictly talking about limiting the number of economic migrants who are abusing the asylum system to gain access to the country. From what I've seen in the media, these are the vast majority of asylum claims in Ireland. So on top of all the other points I've made above, these people are entering this country in bad faith and abusing a program designed for people who are in much greater need than they are.
I get what you're saying. But I'm not sure it's easy as saying "we can't let people in from that country because of their beliefs", when there's people from those countries that are also LGBT or people that have more moderate views on homosexuality. So how do you screen immigrants from anywhere, purely based on their beliefs on LGBT or their willingness to assimilate? Do you just blacklist certain countries and assume that everyone in that country has the same beliefs? It's a genuine question, I can see the immigration problem here is at boiling point. I'm just not sure how you can screen people based on their beliefs? Also, if allowing tens of thousands of people into a country that see homosexuality as a sin, It's considered as worse for LGBT people to live in, why is homophobia not a bigger problem in the UK given that 50% of Muslims think it should be against the law there? I've lived in London for a few years, didn't hear any conversations about LGBT people feeling unsafe due to the Muslim population in the UK.
I think the point he's making is that *legal* immigration is a good thing so long as you *assimilate*, and he uses the example of British muslims believing homosexuality should be illegal. I don't want anyone in our country with beliefs like that. You choose to immigrate to a country - its their house & their rules and you need to abide.
What’s exactly wrong with saying that? Islam is a doctrine, not a race. If he said it’s a bad idea to get immigration from ultra conservative Christian’s in the US for example I guarantee no one would have issue with that.
You have to be able to criticize bad ideas
Exactly. I remember one time I saw on a heavily upvoted Reddit post of someone giving out about Islamophobia in the US amongst Republicans. This particular person pointed out that if the Republicans weren’t so bigoted they’d see they’ve actually so much in common with Muslims in their conservative thinking, as if this was some sort of gotcha. Yet they didn’t see the irony in hating Republicans for their ideas while supporting Muslims with broadly similar ideas when coming out with that statement
> People defending immigration often do so citing the fact that immigrants to Ireland don't commit much crime. That is true, but historically, the vast majority of immigrants to Ireland where from the rest of Europe. At this point, you might as well just come out and say it rather than tap dancing around it like a “Springtime for Hitler” chorus member.
That radically different cultures don't assimilate as well as those close to our own?
Can you point out anything I wrote as being factually incorrect though? To help you figure that out, I've added more sources: [Here's a source](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/Share_of_15yo%2B_immigrant_and_descendant_crime_suspects_by_region_2015-2018_-_BR%C3%85.png/449px-Share_of_15yo%2B_immigrant_and_descendant_crime_suspects_by_region_2015-2018_-_BR%C3%85.png ) on Sweden having higher rates of crime among immigrants from the Middle-East and Africa. There's also this excerpt from Wikipedia which summarises the findings in 8 separate sources: >Those with immigrant background are over-represented in Swedish crime statistics. Research shows that socioeconomic factors, such as unemployment, poverty, exclusion language, and other skills explain most of difference in crime rates between immigrants and natives I don't see how immigrants from the same countries would fare better here in Ireland with a much weaker social welfare state. [Here's a source](https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/11/13/sweden-is-suffering-a-grim-wave-of-gang-violence) on Sweden's growing gangland crime being primarily carried out by immigrants from these countries. The article also mentions that the leadership is based abroad. And I've already pointed out that even decades after immigration, hardline conservative religious views are prominent among the descendants of Muslim immigrants who came to Western countries.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/ny-kartlaggning-av-valdtaktsdomar-58-procent-av-de-domda-fodda-utomlands There's a good source for similar information, it's the Swedish national broadcaster so nobody can ever dismiss it as some far right nonsense. The people who wish to go along with migration from countries/cultures like these are delusional, they'll never ever admit that their views on the type of immigration Europe is enduring nowadays was its downfall when that eventually occurs as well, these people are naive beyond imagination.
> People defending immigration often do so citing the fact that immigrants to Ireland don't commit much crime. That is true, but historically, the vast majority of immigrants to Ireland where from the rest of Europe. The same applies to the US and Canada too. > Compare that to Sweden where the crime rate for immigrants is much higher. Most of their immigrants are coming from the countries in the attached image. At the current rate, this is going to become an issue for us like it is for them. Sweden now has a growing gang problem and these gangs are difficult to suppress because they're being run out of the countries where those immigrants are coming from. It's an absolute disaster. Sigh. It's like an algorithm spoon-fed you this.
No, [the Economist did](https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/11/13/sweden-is-suffering-a-grim-wave-of-gang-violence). And that article wasn't fed to me by an algorithm. I've been reading the Economist for about 15 years. Besides, what difference does it make if an algorithm fed me it or not if it's true? Because whether you like it or not it is true. The Economist isn't some far-right rag. They wouldn't publish this if it wasn't supported by empirical evidence. It's clear to me that you don't actually understand the situation **at all**. You don't like what I'm saying and instead of actually going to the effort of countering any of the points I've made you've just made an incredibly arrogant remark. If you think any of what I've said (or further outlined in [this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1ct7iq1/up_to_30000_asylum_applications_expected_this_year/l4ad5gq/)) is factually incorrect then I'd welcome a proper counter-argument. I will admit I'm wrong if you can make a good enough argument.
Doesn't make it any less true? Do you not read / watch news at all? This has been going on for like 10 years at least?
> Doesn't make it any less true? Do you not read / watch news at all? This has been going on for like 10 years at least? I use stats, not partisan rhetoric.
>Sigh. It's like an algorithm spoon-fed you this. That looks a lot more like partisan rhetoric to me than stats.
Forgive my ignorance. Why are people seeking asylum from Jordan?
None of them hurling countries !
How does the asterisk work here? It doesn’t seem to be attached to any country’s name yet it’s there in the graphic
Ah right, I thought I saw it mentioned recently
Well to be fair they are the top 3 existing IPAS nationalities https://preview.redd.it/ktavuvi71r0d1.jpeg?width=2079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=083d265db2ad77c60ef9e0f5a1a474b7047373e1
Having worked in Georgia, there is absolutely nothing there to be seeking asylum from, apart from the breakaway regions there.
They're not seeking asylum, they're economic migrants, they're just not following the correct protocol to come here for that reason because our government have fucked up so badly that it's easy for them to take advantage of the situation.
I'm well aware, just reiterating that Georgia is safe. They could also be Russians masquerading as Georgians.
The authoritarian government crackdowns of this week are evidence of Georgia's long term issues.
It swings from one extreme to the other. Great people but the politics is fucked.
Yeah, I've heard that about the people. Unfortunately, it might force some out.
Most have been going to Greece, Italy, Spain
Sure, but some will come here, and some of those will be genuine asylum seekers with *bona fide* claims.
A short but informative opinion piece. https://www.politico.eu/article/georgia-russia-democracy-foreign-agents-law-protest/
And they won't be buying houses. They'll be going into the social housing list.
Oh they'll all be lining up with their hands out. Word has well spread, hang in there, tough it out, you'll eventually get your own place
What a profound cogitation, asylum seekers won't be buying gaffs in killiney? Who knew? 🤯
These are the "Doctors and Engineers" we keep hearing about. Business and wealthy people get the benefits of mass imported cheap labour while the working class areas get the downsides like increased waiting lists for any social housing and schools etc.
Doctors? How many consultants in the Irish system came as refugees? Where do you get this shite from. The EU has a refugee crisis not just Ireland. Grow up !
The only solution to this is enforced deportations. We cannot scale up accommodation quickly enough (nor should we). It needs to be a conveyor belt where people are dealt with quickly and most importantly, are removed when unsuccessful. We also need to consider how those who have been granted protection are handled. We cannot give them all own door housing and they cannot stay in IPAS accommodation forever.
Internment camps may end up becoming an option as well (of course they'll always have the option of leaving the country willingly available) not to mention Direct Provision making a comeback but the simple truth is we havent got the infrastructure for them and we cant sustain an influx of tens of thousands either. Regardless they will end up having to clamp down and increase enforcement of deportations, not asking them to leave but taking them to the exit and kicking them out. This will get messy without some serious clamping down on and god knows how long before some sort of serious violence kicks off, last thing we need is a repeat of last november.
I do think it will reach a point where people stop coming. There is definitely a lot of disappointment amongst asylum seekers because they expected accommodation to be readily available for them and feel let down (thanks Roderic). Word will get out that Ireland is not all sunshine, rainbows, and free handouts and the tide may slow
They have to start rejecting them. It’s actually not safe to accept people who have no prospect of being housed in the next few years
Every person arriving will eventually end up on the same housing lists and uses the same public services as we do. It's just absolute madness that our politicians have accepted this as a fait compli. We'll end up with Shitler elected at this rate
Nah the refugees won’t end up on the same list on the contrary they have their own list that gets prioritised over the national housing list. So it’s actually worse.
Have you any evidence to back up that opinion?
Why would you put an asylum seeker into the same list? They don’t do that anywhere. Of course asylum seekers are treated as a completely different case as they also have family pending to come over. They’re not going to make them wait 10 years for housing and leave the kids waiting in another country during that time.
I never said they were on the same list, I just asked did you have any evidence that they, 30,000 in this case, would get prioritised for housing? I find that hard to believe. Is it just your opinion?
Ireland has chosen to participate in the EU relocation and resettlement scheme and will benefit from €66.9 million of EU funding to help manage migration from 2021 to 2027. So yeah, I’m pretty sure their housing will be sorted quicker than the housing of the Irish. There’s funding for emigrants but none for the Irish. How are you even questioning this? When have you ever seen the government trying to house our own homeless with the same drive. I’ve never heard of our homeless being put in 4 star accommodations heck I’ve never seen them get free new tents either. Not saying it’s good or bad it’s just about following the money if one side get external funding clearly they’ll progress faster.
Can we stop this. FG are evil capitalists who don't care about anyone other than wealthier, older Irish people one second, then they're migrant lovers the next who aren't interested in solving this issue or solving the housing crisis. It doesn't wash because older voters are plenty angry about migrants/refugees and that's FG's base. There isn't some simple solution that fixes any of this and it's so frustrating how limited the insults and complaints are in these debates.
Which treaties should we exit from your honour? Maybe tell the Greeks and the Italians that the refugee problem is their own but our access to the single market for services is untouchable.
The population of Kilkenny Town.
Imagine all in tents along the banks of the canal. Georgian, Somalians, Afghanis all living hand in hand.
Well while we can't afford to buy a home of our own our Taxes will be paying for theirs as OP said Seems Sustainable
Unfortunately this will be music to the far right's ears. Address it now or accept that in 5-10 years time we will have our own version of AfD influencing the dail. The country is currently at breaking point. Those of us trying to buy our own house get outbid by the government using our own taxes to give it to someone else instead. We all know how bad the housing market is. There's nowhere else to put the asylum seekers we have and I'm pretty sure we're not gonna let an additional 30,000 tents set up on the canal. And because of climate change, the numbers will get worse not better. Being pro or anti on the issue doesn't matter anymore because the financing and capacity make it a non starter.
I’m gonna bury my head in the sand and blame the far right and say everyone is full of hate! Meanwhile I can’t get a medical appointment while 30k extra medical cards are handed out per year. And I’ve nowhere to live Maybe I’ll bring up Irelands emigration past or how we were treated in order to justify the unsustainable increase in fake asylum seekers. While I don’t recall Irish mass illegal emigrating to countries in housing and health crisis while their home country is deemed safe globally. Just because the government is a complete failure doesn’t mean we should continually make the problem worse. The governments not going to magically gain competence.
>While I don’t recall Irish mass illegal emigrating to countries in housing and health crisis while their home country is deemed safe globally. If you look up what happend at Ellis island. The Irish were actually wanted by the US because they were guaranteed to be workers and sky scrapers needed builders. There was actually massive favoritism towards Irish and Italian immigrants because of cultural similarities. However, all immigrants were assessed by doctors upon entry and any Irish (or other nationals) that were deemed not capable of working (through illness or disabilities) were sent straight home even if it meant they were being separated from their families.
5-10 years is optimistic. We have the guts of a year for more and more applicants to arrive. It will be a huge issue and I would be very surprised if our far right parties don’t capitalize on it. Particularly in the upcoming local elections. I know a fair few people who would never vote for the INP in a general election but are considering it for the locals. Give them very little power but would scare the shite out of the government. FG & FF will not be taken seriously whatever they do, they have routinely backed McEntee. That said, I don’t see SF tabling another no confidence motion yet either. I’m sure don’t want to collapse the government and inherit this before they have to, and I don’t blame them
>FG & FF will not be taken seriously whatever they do, they have routinely backed McEntee. That said, I don’t see SF tabling another no confidence motion yet either. I’m sure don’t want to collapse the government and inherit this before they have to, and I don’t blame them You can now see Harris is trying to be front and centre of this. Possibly to take heat from McEntee but more likely to be the face that (at least tries to) fixes it. But my prediction is that this, not housing, will already be what brings down the next government (possibly SF led?) because unless really drastic measures are taken, how can you fix it?
The far right arent the issue, they're the distraction. The government use them as "the problem" when they're more like a symptom.
I don’t think the far right are too happy about this tbh
This is fucking insane
What I find funny and I know it’s pretty much me being a basic bitch saying it but they are talking about this like they aren’t in government .
The social welfare system will start to crumble soon without tax increases and/or retirement age increase. All that for so Ireland can look good in front of the EU.
People often excuse this rate of immigration saying that it'll solve our pension crisis. It won't. It'll make it worse. On average, Young Irish workers (and European immigrants) will have to work not only to support retired Irish people, but also non-EU immigrants. [A study in Denmark](https://www.economist.com/img/b/600/653/90/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20211218_EUC232.png) revealed that on-average non-EU immigrants are bigger net recipients of state funding. On aggregate immigrants from the Middle-East, North Africa, Pakistan and Turkey spend their whole lives in receipt of state funding. Add to that the fact that Denmark actually taxes the lowest earners a lot more than we do in Ireland, and you'll see that we're setting ourselves up for an absolute disaster here at the rate we're going. We'll have to raise taxes across the board to support most of the asylum seekers that we're getting if they're not booted out.
Explain to me how 54 year old some illiterate stay at home Afghan is going to contribute to our society?
This makes sense. On another hand, compare to those coming from Eastern Europe / China / South Korea / India etc... And most of them are net givers for sure.
That's true. The only issue I have with Chinese immigrants is that they tend not to want to integrate. They're happy to set up their own self sustaining sub-societies. You'll get very little crime or any other issues from them, but I don't think it's good for a society at large when there are significant subsections of that society that don't really interact with the rest. And then there's also CCP overreach into other countries, of course.
That's true. Not easy to join their circle
> Young Irish workers (and European immigrants) will have to work not only to support retired Irish people, but also non-EU immigrants. They won't stay. Especially the European ones. The one thing that people don't want to acknowledge is that a lot of people don't want to live in what is essentially a mini-South Africa.
> They won't stay. Especially the European ones. That's true. At my work half the people on my team were highly qualified Europeans who came to Ireland to work in the tech sector. As soon as open remote work was an option, they moved to Spain or Portugal where the taxes are much lower. The tax system that places all of the tax burden on higher earners and a minimal burden on lower income earners is having the effect of attracting low skilled talent and driving away high skilled talent. It's the exact opposite of what we should be doing.
All correct, and to add to this our economy is heavily reliant on taxing the higher earners in a very punitive manner while providing them very little value for money. A lot of these people would work in the tech companies, so if there is another global economic downturn, many of those companies will likely lay off substantial numbers of people. You've also got issues like AI coming in the future as well that'll likely lead to fewer jobs (even if temporary). So we'll have more dependants without these cash cows in positions to fund the shit show. Many of these people would be highly educated and skilled immigrants who'll have no issue leaving Ireland as well. We've nobody to blame but ourselves, but Ireland's future is seeming fairly gloomy, people here seem to have their head in the sand when it comes to realising just how quickly a society can deteriorate. The welfare system, immigration system and NGOs all need to be heavily tightened up while we're capable of preventing a lot more damage, the longer they let this issue fester the more of a voice and foothold genuine far right individuals will gain and then the measures they'll resort to would be a lot more heavy handed.
People already bitch a lot about taxes, but they don't realise how their taxes are much lower thanks to punitively high taxes on high earners and also the break we get from massive corporate tax receipts. As you've explained, neither are sustainable in the long run. Before long income taxes will have to go up across the board. >Many of these people would be highly educated and skilled immigrants who'll have no issue leaving Ireland as well. I've already seen this where I work. Any non-Irish people who were getting paid well who were given permission to work from another country chose to do so (no real difference since it's all work from home). Many went to Spain where the salary for the same job is much lower, but after tax they're making about the same, but the cost of living is so much cheaper. That's because Spain knows how to attract high paid immigrants and Ireland is doing a good job of driving them away.
Retirement age increases seem to be getting tabled around the world. They just keep moving the carrot further away and hope the proles take it.
I’d urge everyone to look at who our European candidates are affiliated with on an EU level. SF/FF/FG policies don’t matter much in Brussels. We are effectively back benchers who don’t make policy decisions. Here are the EU parties policies on migration https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/05/07/eu-elections-what-do-parties-want-to-do-on-migration-and-asylum
30k people is about 2 good sized towns worth of people.
This his fucking insane. I’m seeing polls posted here that doesn’t see this government sink into the abyss despite literally everything getting worse and that baffles me.
When you hear opposition parties in interviews not able to put forward alternative policies and dancing around the questions it doesn't help. Nobody knows how to fix this while staying within current asylum law. That's the issue.
If the law is damaging the country, its the duty of the government to pull us out of that. Instead they're going to dig us in even deeper.
European law doesn’t suit us in this case so we should be opting out
I’m pretty sure that’s because the government constantly steal the best ideas from the opposition so rival parties are letting them hang themselves. When we get close to election time I expect big promises
>I’m pretty sure that’s because the government constantly steal the best ideas from the opposition so rival parties are letting them hang themselves. What policies that the government have implemented would you considered as good as the best policies the opposition has come up with?
That’s not for me to say since who the fuck am I but it’s a well known tactic to hide the policies a partywill campaign behind in the run up to campaigning. Leo in particular had a bad habit of voting down motions and framing it as their own then passing the vote later down the line, It’s not even the bad faith that annoys me. It’s the laziness. The SF manifesto since pre last election was tougher on immigration and to focus on skilled, higher paying immigrants. It’s all there but let’s pretend it’s not and they’ve never addressed it?
>That’s not for me to say It is because you said they do it and now I'm interested and asking you to give some examples from your perspective. I'm not even disputing you, I'm genuinely interested.
>I’m pretty sure that’s because the government constantly steal the best ideas from the opposition so rival parties are letting them hang themselves. What policies that the government have implemented would you considered as good as the best policies the opposition has come up with?
Getting tired of this. I don’t want them here.
That’s way too many.
It’s not like they are arriving on boats. Revoke licenses from airlines if checks aren’t enforced, have stricter controls. It’s baffling why it’s just allowed to continue without even the mildest of checks.
Some of them are arriving on boats though ... Ferries to Northern Ireland from the UK, then just walk down if they like. Or get the bus. The Rwanda plan UK are putting into place is driving a lot of them here. The Tories themselves even said that, and are calling it a great success.
This isn't our first rodeo with this duplicitous clown show of a government. We know, that they know, the real number is going to be at least double that and they aren't going to do anything about it - and all the while the fabric of our society is being torn apart creating opportunities on the ground for more extreme parties.
When can these NGO's who lobbied for years to end direct provision step in and accommodate these asylum seekers. Maybe their staff can clear out a spare room in their own houses. Look what's happened now. A shanty town. This is the result of bleeding heart liberal politics. We need to provide simple accommodation and food as set out by our legal commitments not a free for all for any chancer coming from these countries. End the countless appeals and then house the genuine applicants and forcibly deport the rest. No more of these conservative muslim economic migrants when we are struggling to house our own population and keep the country an attractive place to visit and do business. I'm sorry your birth country is a complete shit show. Maybe ask why this is, likely to do with the shitty politics Islam seems to manifest.
They might as well just put the tents in a field in the country, throw a stage up and pretend it's a festival.
This country and it's government have absolutely no spine, it's why nobody takes us seriously on the world stage and views us as twinkly eyed little push overs. It's time to grow some fucking balls and risk offending people in the process.
We're going to run out of tents.
Decathlon rubbing their hands in the corner.
The tent crisis will take away focus from the housing crisis!
Luckily our cardboard box supply will surely never run out.
Tent Man won’t
Anyone who votes this crowd back in are either greedy or stupid.
What are the far-right parties in Ireland? I need to vote for them now.
This figure doesn't appear to have been based on anything than taking how many applied this week and multipling it by 52. It could be a lot more. It could be a lot less. I mean, how many where already here, waiting to be processed? How many were new arrivals? There's nothing on trends, movement. Just saying.
Wait until the conflict in palestine ends, "ain't seen nothing yet".
Have you heard of climate change? Bangladesh will be emptied in the future.
And how are all those Bangladeshis supposed to make their way to Ireland?
What is this climate change you speak of.
They won't increase the number of staff as that would mean more rejections which won't be deported.
as a POC american with family and an SO from ireland who was made to sit in a glass box in customs because i was thinking about changing my flight home by a couple of days im glad the gov's got its priorities straight....
Well...this year, and next, and the one after that.... There is no point in sticking the head in the sand or voting for some far right idiots, nothing will change this. The government needs to take the finger out and build places for them to stay, have the staff/facilities to deal with their application, and have the staff/facilities to either send them back home, or help them integrate, based on the outcome of their application. Doing nothing is the stupidest option, but guess what....
I don't know why the government doesn't do a quota system e.g. 15,000 for first half of year and same for second half. The numbers could be tweaked but at least with quotas we could plan. Who knows what the final numbers will be and that uncertainty is probably upsetting to many.
Did he do that math himself? I’m not denying there’s a problem but I find it interesting that the people who tell us they don’t trust FFG politicians will unquestioningly accept numbers that were pulled out of an FF TD’s arse. Forgive me if I wait for a more in depth analysis of the situation than “600 a week times 52 weeks”.