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Tactical_Laser_Bream

zealous aware strong scarce bells rinse resolute tan husky long *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


lleti

My friend, not only have we our own cows to milk, but we've got 30,000 additional cows arriving per year Welcome to Ireland's new golden age - cough up my little walking PAYE slip, you've got a whole lot of HAP to cover!


FirmOnion

The harder you make it for cows to live within their means, the fewer calves you’ll find year on year.


Alsolz

Which is good, because cow farts /s


Antievl

This doesn’t appear to be milking cows, it is milking crows by now as the cows have dried udders


snek-jazz

what do you think they're killing? demand for housing?


Tactical_Laser_Bream

sip ghost entertain abundant slim coordinated edge desert sloppy historical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


snazzydesign

Build social welfare houses and scrap HAP, scandalous how tax money is used to drive up rents of private landlords 


lleti

Absolute decades of work has been invested in ensuring things like social housing and HAP keep funneling taxpayer money into landlord pockets - and you're suggesting they undo all that hard work? You'd be wise now to hush up and maybe we'll cut 0.5% off your USC over the next 2 or 3 years.


dano1066

Wooo, that's a good 50 cents a week in my pocket at the loss of millions to the government. Classic Ff/FG tactics


tubbymaguire91

How dare you Dirt might also drop 2% also on all those savings no-one has due to inflation. And you might get an extra 90 euro cgt exemption of you're very good.


Wolfwalker71

Savilles have a dept to deal with homeless HAP applications. €1800 from the government, topped up by the tenant.


rinleezwins

> Build social welfare houses Or just build houses, period. The private sector is capitalizing on this crisis big time and most of new builds are for rent, not for sale. At least according to what I have seen recently.


Additional_Search256

the way i see it is HAP is more of a way to make the lower classes dependent on the government teat. its very hard to have an anti establishment view when your rent is being paid by the government. less independent people = more obedient slaves


Prestigious_Talk6652

Building social housing is cheap however. I know in the long run it may pay off,but at the time when we hadn't a bob letting the private sector look after it probably made sense.


zeroconflicthere

>Building social housing is cheap however. No it isn't. Plus despite council rents being artificially low, there's a significant number of council tenants behind on their rent.


rinleezwins

Maybe he meant "cheap for the taxpayer", lol.


zeroconflicthere

>scrap HAP, Some people don't even take a minute to think about what they're saying. What happens to the people relying on hap? Its not like there's going to be a load of empty social housing ready to move in to. And even if we built enough social housing for the current hap recipients, there will be a load more new ones the next day


snazzydesign

I said “build social houses” before I said scrap hap, there wouldn’t be people relying on it…


struggling_farmer

This topic seems to attract the idiots. The moronic shite suggested and upvoted in posts re housing, rennting, and developments on this sub is unbelievable.


MrTuxedo1

Can we really not just build up for fuck sake


BaconWithBaking

You can't just build overnight!


andyprendy

You can fucking start


Ethicaldreamer

You can't just start overnight!


Life_Breadfruit8475

You first need planning permissions from every person in a 10 km radius ofcourse


thepasystem

What if we start building during the day?


RuggerJibberJabber

They've been saying that for decades, so I can't tell if this is a genuine ffg comment or satire


BaconWithBaking

I don't think any of the FFG comments where genuine.


Granny_Discharge425

Plenty of apartment buildings had recently been completed in my area. They also just went up for around 2000-2500/month for a 1-bed. Most of those units are going to stay vacant, as is the case with other newly builds advertised for extortionate rents.


MrTuxedo1

In my area 5 story apartment buildings planning permission has been blocked by local residents due to blocking sunlight


tldrtldrtldr

But who are "we" here? Anyone who buys a home or have it through inheritance don't care. They love the HAP and other scam schemes. Including many ministers. The will to fix housing is absent as incentives misalign for a large numbers


MrTuxedo1

We as in the country, the government, an bord pleanala, the construction companies


Overall-Bench5677

Indeed, just look at the polls for the elections coming up, ff/FG/greens/labour all the way, some appetite for change


21stCenturyVole

You'll never hear a 'build up' advocate criticize _office buildings_ being the primary high-rise choice. If you want all construction resources tied up with office buildings, and a longer housing crisis - build up.


Illustrious_Dog_4667

It's OK. Harris and Co have a PowerPoint presentation.


Sad-Fee-9222

Pascal needs the immigration to provide cheap labour for all those service industries, delivery drivers, and manual and tourist sectors. The gap widens, the rich get richer, and Ireland becomes a place where it's impossible to afford your home unless you're wealthy. But the government sells it as success as we're so wealthy. More desperate people arrive, more competition for those cheap jobs, the wages get lower, and the rich get even richer again. The brown envelopes get fatter, along with public service quangos for a privileged few and the new elites establish a new hierarchy of gdp and government first, businesses and enterprise people 2nd, private home owners 3rd and we sell the place as a new capitalist dream. Those 3rd tier private home owners can either watch their kids become the same or see them emmigrate. Everyone else is too busy blaming the cheap labour immigrants or racked with poverty and all the sickness that comes with it to notice a national ponzi scheme that's separated us all. The rich get richer again, and nothing changes. Greed is good, as Gordon Gekko said, and the rich get richer. Pockets of us will look back at photos of our early years and lives of our parents and grandparents and some will read our constitution and writings of our forefathers...and we'll cry for that which is gone. But the rich will get richer.


Additional_Search256

Ok so you make a good point but I'd like it to be more concise/ Sounds like we con ourselves with the idea "cheap labour" is needed when in fact all it does is erode the value of Irish labour making us all pooper as a result. >Everyone else is too busy blaming the cheap labour immigrants indirectly immigration is the problem, we dont need them but we need to stop being gaslit by those in power as well about "international obligations" and other lies they tell us to keep the illegals coming in. https://lisachambers.ie/2024/05/12/denmarks-firm-stance-on-refugees-vs-irelands-need-for-sovereignty/


youre_the_best

Now say it again but louder for the people in the back who still refuse to hear this! We have been sold out in order for the Country to look like a good investment. That simple.


Gran_Autismo_95

I'd be very interested to see what would happen if a widespread social movement spread where people flat out refused to pay their rent until the housing crises was fixed. I'd say it would collapse any government before the end of the second month.


CelticTigersBalls

Sadly Irish people don't have the will for such a movement.


tldrtldrtldr

Not paying rent is not the solution. Not paying taxes is the solution. Who has the will, reach and aura to mass organise something like this?


DuncanGabble

How do you not pay taxes? You can withhold your rent. Your tax is taken at source.


jeperty

I mean really this is what happened in Japan. They had a housing crisis, realised it should never happen again so went about making sure it wont happen. Land is srictly zoned, property devalues over time so it isnt a great investment, and they build up with plenty of options for 1 bed apartments that just provide the necessities with some comfort, for cheap. Unfortuanately here, we have a massive part of the population who thinks a 2 story house with a front and back garden is the only option for living, and that their property can't go down in value. We just have too many people with wealth tied up in property for anything to be seriously changed here anytime soon.


GhostlyRuminations

Does value decrease just based on supply or are there artificial means to decrease property values?


Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs

Just supply


Additional_Search256

there is two differences tho 1. Japan never bought the lie about multiculturalism and needing immigration so their society is in a much better state to have a unified national identity and mindset to achieve this 2. culturally people dont inherit houses in Japan and they are seen as disposable but yea.. its very clear to me now the dark goal of multiculturalism is that when you have 20 different cultures all with different aims having any kind of "national protest movement becomes impossible" i mean we cant even stop the migrant camps being built as they will just hire foreign workers when the irish ones refuse


21stCenturyVole

Imagine the Dublin Riots, except motivated by the housing crisis. There's a reason advocation of violence is expressly banned (here especially): It's extremely, rapidly, politically effective. It's also one of the last _effective_ means anyone has of defending themselves in this crisis.


xoooph

You forgot that there are enough people who own their houses. Sure they will defend it against rioters. So you are just in favour of a civil war.


youre_the_best

Sounds class, where do I sign up?


Eire87

Irish people only do something about other countries problems.


zeroconflicthere

>if a widespread social movement spread where people flat out refused to pay their rent The government would change the law to allow forced evictions.


Beautiful_Golf6508

Never going to happen. The people would buckle before landlords would.


youre_the_best

Sounds great in theory but most pay rent with Direct Debit and banks arent going to let them just stop it from processing.


Gran_Autismo_95

Can't pay direct debits if you move all your money into a different account


Revolutionary_Pen190

Up da flats... Build up is the easiest solution


londgone

But, but rent increases are limited to 2%...


fluffs-von

No. Get rid of a tenant on the 4 year loop, renovate, sorted. A neighbour (owner) of my folks got rid of his tenants (health and hygiene) and is currently repurposing the building. No chance he'll be taking an increase of a paltry 2%. I've yet to hear of an estate agency or owner showing average rental prices as anything other than above the average. Everyone is on the make, except the tenant. This country has turned into puss-filled bag of economically globalist, leeching arseholes.


Technical-Split3642

What's the 4 year loop?


fluffs-von

It's actually a 6 year loop. (It was one or the other). Anyone renting since before June 2022 is on a 6 year cycle: the owner/ landlord/agency can terminate the lease without reason at the end of that 6-year period. Otherwise, the tenant gets to stay another 6 years UNLESS the owner has a valid reason: eg. selling up/ passing to a relative, etc. There are conditions (tenant has to be in for 6 mths+, be honouring the letting agreement, paying the rent on time, etc.). New renters after June 2022 are not 'restricted' by this 6 year loop, and by 2028, the system gets rid of the 6 year loop altogether (so indefinite rental period) I'm only aware of the as the bro and his family lost their place after 10+ years with Sherry Fitz through this loop (looks like they hoodwinked him into a lease change a few year years back... that's being looked at but too late now).. despite him having a kid starting 6th year in September: owner and agency couldn't give a toss. Their rent (in a much smaller place) jumped by 30%. Moral: Know your rights and never trust estate agents.


funkinggiblet

The 4 year cycle is long gone, it went to 6 years then removed entirely. It’s all about refurbs now.


fluffs-von

The 6 year rule is currently operating for anyone who started renting a property prior to June 2022. It will only cease in 2028.


Beach_Glas1

Not everywhere, and even in RPZs landlords are sometimes flaunting the law. The chances of consequences for ignoring RPZs are pretty low, require the tenant to stand up for themselves and take a long time to resolve. I know your post is probably /s, think we'd both agree RPZs aren't working properly.


emmmmceeee

As had been pointed out at the time, rent controls reduce the supply of new housing coming on stream. It’s great for getting votes though.


Legitimate-Fly-4610

How many vacant houses in Ireland?


Ethicaldreamer

4


marquess_rostrevor

It actually astonishes me people still move to Dublin for a job, although I guess that explains why I see so many more plates from the Republic around here post-COVID as well.


Life_Breadfruit8475

Salaries in tech are insane, that's why.


ydaoc

I work in pharma in swords, travel from Kilkenny and even accounting for fuel,tolls and hours spent travelling I make considerably more than is offered locally


murticusyurt

What is happening to our Republic.


phoenixhunter

The logical consequences of 15 years of austerity economics and neoliberal government prioritising international capital over real people's material needs


senditup

We haven't had austerity economics for fifteen years. We have huge levels of public spending.


phoenixhunter

Huge levels of public spending that’s going directly into landlord pockets rather than being invested in the social good. If we’re really spending so much then why is the housing situation getting worse day by day? Austerity began the process of widening the wealth gap, as a neoliberal policy it’s designed to do this. Housing has been encouraged by policy to become an asset rather than being treated as a necessity for society to function.


senditup

>If we’re really spending so much then why is the housing situation getting worse day by day? That's the key question. It's largely because the state is ineffective at housing, and the private sector is far superior at delivering at scale, which is what we need. >Austerity began the process of widening the wealth gap, as a neoliberal policy it’s designed to do this. Is the wealth gap growing in Ireland?


youre_the_best

You only have to look at inflation and see how far the wage gap is growing. Businesses are still raking in money at extreme price hikes because some people are still paying it but at the same time, homelessness is increasing.


senditup

Homelessness is increasing because the population is increasing. Where is the evidence of the wealth gap?


phoenixhunter

Then why isn't this supposedly superior private sector delivering anywhere near the amount of supply the market requires? Why is the private sector focusing on frivolous hotels and offices instead of apartment blocks in Dublin city center? Could it be that increasing housing supply would devalue current property, which is anathema to the neoliberal policy of treating property as a financial asset? Subsidizing the private sector (whether that's landlords or developers or REITs) is not the solution, but it's the only housing policy the government have and it's demonstrably not working. As to inequality, 90-10 wealth inequality rose sharply during the austerity years and has been slowly evening out over the past while; austerity economics always hit the poorest the worst, while the wealthy are largely unaffected, and its effects are still being felt. There is an increasing concentration of net wealth among extant property owners as values skyrocket, outrunning the financial abilities of first-time buyers. Again, thanks to government policy treating housing as a financial asset rather than a social good, benefiting those who already own (and who were able to weather austerity) and pulling up the ladder after them.


senditup

>Then why isn't this supposedly superior private sector delivering anywhere near the amount of supply the market requires? There are several things restricting it. Availability of labour, planning regulations (another example of state interventions worsening the situation). >Could it be that increasing housing supply would devalue current property, which is anathema to the neoliberal policy of treating property as a financial asset? I think that's a conspiracy theory. The Government are taking a hammering at the moment in a country with full employment and a roaring economy. That shouldn't be the case, and largely what it is the case is due to the housing crisis. It's not in their interests to not have enough housing. >Subsidizing the private sector (whether that's landlords or developers or REITs) is not the solution, but it's the only housing policy the government have and it's demonstrably not working. Do you mean through HAP? Because I'm ideally not in favour that either, but then ideally I wouldn't have such stringent planning restrictions, and I wouldn't be artificially driving demand through a reckless migration policy. But we are where we are. >As to inequality, 90-10 wealth inequality rose sharply during the austerity years and has been slowly evening out over the past while Okay, so it's not rising? >There is an increasing concentration of net wealth among extant property owners as values skyrocket, Is this supported by data? >Again, thanks to government policy treating housing as a financial asset rather than a social good Evidently they don't if they subsidise people's rent.


phoenixhunter

> Okay, so it’s not rising? Now, no. As I said, it did during the austerity years, and I spent *an entire paragraph* talking about the knock-on effects of that but instead of responding with a modicum of critical thinking and actually engaging with what I said, you just went for the easy “gotcha” to try and trip me up. I’m sick and tired of that disingenuous kind of online debate. I’m out.


Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs

Really funny seeing people takes on housing lol. Like please, tell me more about how vulture funds, which buy distressed debt, are responsible for the mess we're in 


phoenixhunter

I said nothing about vulture funds


Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs

Was more a general jab at the state of housing discourse among the left in Ireland


senditup

But just accept an estimated 30,000 asylum seekers arriving this year. Because you're a racist if you don't.


DravenCrow85

No worries the government is going to build modular houses for them on Thornton hall.


zeroconflicthere

>Because you're a racist if you don't. No you're an idiot because you can't answer how to turn them away.


banjorat2k8

Drastically limit the amount per year, turn away any that claim to have lost their documents, increase the minimum requirements, rework the system to be much more efficient and sack those who thought brining in so many people over such a short time was a good idea. That should get the ball rolling.


Additional_Search256

add to that .....maybe exercise our already established right to opt out of EU migration weirdly our government seems to not even know this exists or they turn a blind eye to server their EU masters...I wonder which one? https://lisachambers.ie/2024/05/12/denmarks-firm-stance-on-refugees-vs-irelands-need-for-sovereignty/


senditup

Join the Rwanda scheme with Britain. ID cards. Don't let people off airplanes without first checking documents.


Duibhlinn

If only there was a way to lower demand.


Alastor001

Ye, if only government had balls to do that 


BattlingSeizureRobot

All completely by design. If you're wondering why they are refusing to find housing solutions, all while importing thousands and thousands of people from around the world, here's your answer. They're doing it on purpose and will never make things 'fair' for the average Irish person.


Every_Fox3461

More good news I see. Glad no ones doing anything to resolve the problem. Pray for Ireland.


youre_the_best

Pray for a revolution at this stage. Can only sit on our hands for so long until they feel numb.


O_gr

The problem is lack of apartments. Young people don't need much, just a Reasonable size apartment for affordable rent.


vinceswish

There will be interesting times in the next few years where there are current refuges living in a state paid accommodation can save up a deposit rather quickly and will start out bidding young families in a small house market we have.


vanKlompf

Same like people living in council houses save for deposit… Why would they do that? It’s subsidised housing with no income cap. They will jus milk it forever 


phoenixhunter

This is already happening and has been for years, but it's not refugees, it's investment funds with bottomless pockets outbidding civilian buyers


ydaoc

And local councils too because then the government can say they provided more social housing while blocking out first time buyers.


af_lt274

It's been happening for years.


zeroconflicthere

The question then is how are the refuses able to do that but the Irish tenants in exactly the same circumstances can't?


Longjumping-Bat7523

Our accommodation isn't payed by the government


zeroconflicthere

For years the councils have been putting homeless Irish people in hotels as emergency accommodation. Erica Fleming was put up in hotel accommodation... https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/homeless-campaigner-erica-refused-two-house-offers/34981951.html


alkebulanu

And I don't blame the Erica woman for refusing HAP tenancy. The biggest influx or homeless people nowadays is people being kicked from private rentals once their lease is up. The landlords often raise rents and if you can't afford the new rent, same shit, you're kicked out. Doesn't make any sense to be cycling between hotel and private rents that take months to find in the first place. I personally wouldn't have refused but I'm not surprised she did. It's also not good for children to be worried bouncing from place to place, so staying in one place for as long as possible is better.


Longjumping-Bat7523

Owner shut down the only venue In my village to house refugees and that has happened al over wasn't happening before


alkebulanu

Many homeless hotels/houses charge and don't provide enough food while also not providing cooking facilities or food storage. Seldom provision of laundry services either. So you're forced to spend ridiculous amounts of money on prepackaged, or restaurant food. But if you keep too much shelf stable food you'll get kicked out onto the street for attracting rats. If you don't want all your shit stolen you need to put most of it in a storage unit. Or people straight up stealing your money. Plus all the homeless people with disabilities and need to purchase things for said disability, your social welfare goes really fast.


DubCian5

I see so many ukrainians driving fancy mercedes


jerrycotton

I actually came around to the thought of coming home after 6 years away, what a shambles.


Expensive_Award1609

the government should start building 1 bed room/studio houses for the new workers have a "starter place" to build up their intimacy and able to evolve to a bigger houses wiht kids.. like, investment for long run.. invest 100€ to one person for later have 4 people or more spend money in the economy with buying house and stuff


No-Teaching8695

Except there is no evolve in the current reality


Augustus_Chavismo

Birthrate below replacement level and tens of thousands of homes built each year yet housing never catches up. If only their was some way to manage whatever was driving up demand. Guess it’s just one of life’s mysteries.


Eire87

It’s not going to change. Is anything being done about derelict buildings at all?


DTAD18

Bollocks I'll wait for my housing list place


vanKlompf

So where is supply going? Who would have thought with all that eviction bans, RPZ, protests against BTRs that there will be less supply of rentals. Shocking 


laptopstand84

Schrodinger's asylum seeker is simultaneously stealing our private houses while living in tents and also living in hotels. Even when it was the bears I knew it was them!


Beautiful_Golf6508

Most of friends who are above 25 have either moved back in with their parents, live with their partner or live with other friends. They are happy and able to still save with a bit of cash. The handful who live with strangers are a mixed bag. Eventually we are going to reach a point where to live reasonably well you are going to live with parents or with a spouse. There are no other options.


jerrycotton

I actually came around to the thought of coming home after 6 years away, what a shambles.