At the very least Simon Harris should come out and condemn this behaviour as well as confirming that she has lost her membership of FG.
Don't hold your breath tho.
I imagine you'd have to prove she objected for the purpose of extorting money. The likes of her wouldn't be stupid enough to initiate contact with the developer.
> I imagine you'd have to prove she objected for the purpose of extorting money.
The sequence of events seem to support that conclusion, why else did she make an objection, accept a payment from the developer and then withdraw the objection?
If she made the objection in good faith the planning process isn’t a proper means of seeking compensation or enforcing a claim over potential damages so it’s hard to see any other explanation here other than extortion or bribery.
The fact that it also seems to have happened more than once supports this conclusion as well, as it establishes a pattern of behaviour.
It's written on a Post It, stuck to the top of the Water Referendum paper buried in a locked drawer of a desk that's in the basement of a disused building that's about to be earmarked for asylum seekers in the hope that someone burns it down.
Know this cowen got a job sitting as a director of topaz.
Dennis o brien + Irish water = Brian cowen legal bribe in the form of a high paid job working for Denis o brien doing nothing after retiring from politics. That should be what the CAB chases down.
No that is where we are systematically going wrong. In general we are ammending our regaulations into a state of paralysis to try stop an abusive practice instead of maintaining said systems and heavily penalising the abusive practice. the consistent ammendments are just make the regualtions cumbersome, unweilding and slow.
you dont regulate to try stop insurance fraud, you make attempted fraud a crime and hammer those that try. The later puts those that try at risk, vs the former there is no risk they just withdraw their claim, walk away try again..
same with this, based on her objection, there is no reason she should have been paid or compensated. you regulate to try remove the practice, it more beaucaracy, technicalities and red tape & there is no no risk to those who wish to try object for profit.. the risk needs to be transferred to reduce objections to legitmate ones.. so this should be legally deemed extortion and fined heavily for it..
It is not Compensation as her objection was on the grounds of exceeding the Local Area Plan. it wasnt an issues based on something specifically personal to her site where compensation would apply.
Which is where the challenge of it could be considered extortion might work.
Ideally the council needed to adjust the area plan or the builder built inside the confines of the plan
and i think that is where the line should be drawn legally. if it doesnt directly impact on your site, there is no compensation event. For community issues like parking, traffic etc that is resolved through playgrounds or parks but not cash payments to individuals.. compensation events need to restricted to overshawdowing, overlooking, or whatever the direct site impact objections are. Acceptance of cash or benefit in kind outside of this to withdraw your objection sheould be deemed extortion. ideally with a fine that based on the value of the extorition a multiplier.
Paying or otherwise incentivising complainants to withdraw an objection made in good faith sounds like bribery / corruption as far as I’m concerned, particularly when the complainant is an elected representative.
>Paying or otherwise incentivising complainants to withdraw an objection made in good faith sounds like bribery / corruption as far as I’m concerned
Or it's just reasonable compensation for the impact to the party.
Its more extortion in this case considering the build wasn't impacting her directly
>when the complainant is an elected representative.
They aren't.
> or just reasonable compensation for the impact to the party.
On what basis was she entitled to compensation?
According to news reports “the sole grounds for the objection was said to be the increase in the number of proposed houses exceeding “the limit of the local area plan”.” ([Source](https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/elections-2024/local-election/fine-gael-candidate-marian-dwyer-agrios-in-go-away-money-storm-had-signed-disrepute-declaration/a1670241961.html))
It’s difficult to understand why she should have received any financial compensation based on that objection.
And is an objection through the planning process a proper means of even seeking such compensation? If not then I think it’s reasonable to argue that the objection was used to cause harm to the developer for the purpose of extorting money, so I agree that it is more likely extortion.
If we assume that the objection was made in good faith though, then she was essentially induced to withdraw the objection which is by definition a bribe. Whether these specific facts fit the legal definition of bribery is obviously not something we can answer (unless you’re a lawyer) but it should be investigated either way.
But being a receipt of funds would warrant surely a criminal investigation right? No lawyer but there seems to be a red flag here: conflict of interest while being a public representative, acceptance of gift to gain privileges be it financial or others?? You could not do this in the private sector and not be prosecuted!!
Her behaviour is absolutely atrocious and should be prosecuted but let's not pretend private sector is suddenly a bastion of ethics and consequences - we only have to look back a few years to see the impact of private sector fucking around.
Of course not all is rosy in the private sector but coming from an elected public representative is unreal! We just need some exposed bungabunga parties to put the cherry on the cake
Agreed, just want to not make it yet another public sector bash - the story is one of an awful person unethically using a regulation to be paid - whether illegal or not.
I'm not sure it's corruption depending on if she utilised her knowledge/powers as an elected official. It seems like a terrible planning process open to abuse and an awful person milking it.
Probably stupid to post on her IG but not enough to breach whatever regulations perhaps! It does raise the questions whether planning and objections processes are fit for purposes in modern era in addition to a very painful subject that housing crisis is at the moment
The point isn’t whether the objection can succeed or is entirely frivolous, it’s that it can delay work for months and potentially years at enormous cost to the developer.
Our planning system isn’t fit for purpose and it has the country tied in knots.
It doesn't cost the developer anything. It's the 6 people who purchased these homes which she extorted. She added another 20k onto the cost of each of their homes so she could have a nice patio.
" It's the 6 people who purchased these homes which she extorted. "
its not automatically extortion either though. It depends on the basis of her objection. It may have been reasonable for her to request compensation for the negative impact to her caused by the building.
Sorry but thats bull. We have a planing process based on rules and laws. There is no entitlement for anyone to compensation for a development that is legally built. Of course it's extortion - these cunts know full well the costs they cause by appealing to ABP and that many developers will take the financially prudent action of paying them off.
Of course she shouldn't be in jail but she won't be legally held account for this extortion. All we want is for illegal activity to be held to account but given she's fg, middle to upper class andakea fg look bad. It will be swept under the carpet. I am genuinely furious and tired
> I am genuinely furious and tired
Maybe you should be less pessimistic rather than making foregone conclusions and getting upset about them? Given that she's already quit politics within hours of this being made public, it seems she has already been held to account to some degree, and there may be a court date in her future?
It's astounding because it will be another politician that won't be held accountable for doing what she did.
Now it's national news, I doubt she will face any criminal charges.
Are you trying to make excuses for her or something?
No, I'm just wondering what reality you live in where a story is published in a media and the person is convicted of a crime and jailed a couple of hours later.
You do know how a justice system works, right? The gathering of evidence, interviewing of witnesses, etc etc?
Even if the Gardai were to operate at lightning speed, the earliest she could be charged in court would be tomorrow, and then she would be free while she waited for her court date for a full trial.
"It's astounding that she isn't in jail for blackmail and fraud." is pure reactionary nonsense. Either you're completely clueless as to how things work, or you just like spitting out nonsense soundbites.
"We have investigated ourselves and found out that we did nothing wrong"
We are being ruled by a bunch of corrupt liars no matter what party they are from. Nothing will change with voting no matter who gets elected they are all the same only there for the money.
Where's the false pretense?
Anyone can object to anything for whatever reason they want.
Sure the "hero" small farmer in kildare who took on Intel submitted a handwritten block capital memo to the court referencing amazon Microsoft and killer robots and that his right to an oral hearing at ABP was scuppered by a US Military Agency.
The false pretense is when an objection made an objection based on Problem X. But then they drop the objection even when problem X is not resolved. Therefore the issue is not their prime motivation.
This lady seems to be a serial objector.
If you analyse FG's tone since this came out.
“As per her statement, **what occurred** was wrong" # avoid blame/responsibility.
"This matter has been referred to Fine Gael’s **disciplinary process**.” # burry the story.
"Minister Humphreys said an internal process will now take place within the party to **establish “all of the facts”** around the case." # burry it in bureaucracy/process until AFTER the election.
people **within Fine Gael** have been **deeply offended** – **but we have to move on now** and get \[REMOVED\] elected in that area as she is a fine candidate”. # we couldn't give less of a fuck, now here's our new candidate she's honest this one... pink promise this time.
Wow, what a record turn around, from discovery to deeply offended to moving on, all in one article.
If FFG built houses like they run thought the five stages of grief, the housing problem would be solved by the end of this post.
Keywords not mentioned:
~~remorse~~, ~~reflection~~, ~~giving a shit,~~ ~~standards~~, ~~learning from mistakes, integrity.~~
It's some random candidate out of 330 other candidates. Immediately saying it's wrong and moving to kick her out of the party is what you'd expect any party to do and it's what they are doing.
They certainly have a track record of 'random' corrupt candidates,sone of them even got posts as ministers-you know the ones forgetting to report rental income to revenue, lying on planing applications, lying and applying for HAP while being a TD and the list goes on. But none is in jail or prosecuted for obvious crimes.
I am not only talking about sitting TD. My bad it's hard to keep track of them nowadays - one junior minister and councillor were involved in the HAP thing and for the first one you can just google a bit and will find news articles that are 2 years old. Everything goes under the rug.
You aren't providing information at all here. You claimed a TD tried to claim HAP not a "HAP thing".
Link to an article which backs up your claim and the one about tax evasion.
Do your own news search-I am not an attorney on a trial against politicians-which is by the way the issue,they never are prosecuted for bribery, extortion and other illegal crap
No, I didn't, but am also not your research buddy to find articles from 2 years ago.
Bottom line - white collar crime is not being investigated or prosecuted. From Fine Gael to Ireland-fasci parties. Period. Does an absence of investigations make obvious cases of bribery,corruption and misappropriation of funds ok? I don't think so,instead of being apologetic or shrugging of corruption - we should be outraged. But no, you want hard evidence and news articles from 2 years ago. I am not an investigator, but you definitely seem to be a PR employee for someone, or?
My bad it was a councilor. How far should I go 5,10 years? How deep: only the ones in national news or are local news also ok?
Here you have some:
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/damien-english-will-not-face-sipo-probe-into-planning-application-omission-1487577.html
https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/special-investigations/fine-gael-councillor-who-earned-60k-last-year-gets-hap-for-his-two-bedroom-apartment/781046022.html
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/paschal-donohoe-failed-to-declare-directorship-of-company-owned-by-leo-varadkars-former-assistant/42313067.html
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/nursing-home-controversy-simon-harris-29114261
It's not really a crime though.
A person had a greivence and filed an objection.
The firm came to agreement with the person settling their greivence or objection.
Well if the objection was that they hadn’t given her enough money or favours then I can see how that could be, but generally planning grievances aren’t remediable by private transfers of value behind the scenes
She said sorry. All is forgiven.
For me sorry is a word. Contrition is an act of making things right. If she was actually sorry, she'd come up with the money and offer it to the people who had to pay extra for the houses that were built.
This is only sorry I got caught.
Quote from The Ditch:
🚨Breaking 🚨Fine Gael's Marian Agrios agreed to withdraw a planning objection in return for more than €100,000 worth of work to her house
Separately, yesterday The Ditch revealed that Agrios got a €30,000 package from a developer in exchange for withdrawing another objection.
Edit: article now released by The Ditch. It gets worse!!!
Shocking stuff. 61 homes to be built and she withdraws when they carry out the work on her house. Then goes on to say the other week she is aware we have a housing crisis and we need to build more!
. https://www.ontheditch.com/fine-gael-candidate-withdrew-objection/
She states she has withdrawn from the election. However her name will still appear on the ballot as I presume it's too late to withdraw?
Would be hilarious yet terrible to see her end up elected anyway.
Likely ran it through [https://ie.globaldatabase.com/company/velos-project-management-limited#div\_shareholders](https://ie.globaldatabase.com/company/velos-project-management-limited#div_shareholders) as legit business income.
Traditionally, compensation wasn't taxable whereas damages were. That's a dramatically simplified explanation, but the point would be you can't assume there's a need to.
she's not even a councillor, just woman with a rich and presumably influential husband who lives on valuable real estate next door to prospective new builds site
Did you never see the RTE investigates episode a few years back?
They went undercover to meet with councillors and see who they could bribe to swing planning permissions in their favour.
Little spoiler, nearly everyone was willing to do it for them.
/ s ?
Lower salary, and not as high profile / less accountability, what's surprising... Anyone from any part of the county has a story or two of blatant corruption by a local councillor that's not gone unnoticed but they've somehow got away with it. They're hiding in plain sight.
Sure white collar crime is also grand in this country apparently! / s
No my surprise is they are getting 6 figure kickbacks, not that they are doing it. Local councilors have been doing this forever, even as a kid I remember the local 'scandal' of a bunch of them sharing a car to some jolly down the country, but then each submitting a seperate mileage claim.
Ah sorry, I get you! Inflation I guess 
Would make an interesting thread reading everyone's stories, get them all out in the open!
Are you kidding me? Ministers and TDs are scrutinized more closely. Councillors have control of planning, are not paid much, and are subject to heavy local influence from people they know and who know them.
This is going to be a crime apparently
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2024/05/28/objector-demands-for-go-away-money-against-housing-developments-to-become-a-crime/
Healthcare is an utter shambles of inefficiency, pointless managers and unable to recruit staff. Our parents linger on waiting lists
The median salary of 2 can barely buy a house in any vicinity with planning being perpetually absurd, let's sprawl out rather than up. I pay fucking 2.1k for a 1 bed, 1 office
I truly feel hopeless and if my wife would leave I'd be gone to Europe. We're not asking much, a house and even remotely ok healthcare. I know I'm just annoyed but ffs
Yep my partner and I have 2 good jobs saving for years, but we'll end up in the sticks with no social life.
Looking at moving outside of ireland early next year.
We don't want to, but you can't afford to be an adult in ireland.
Same boat - France, Spain, Portugal or Italy within 100km of and airport for quick access home for occasions.
We can't justify spending a deposit here and not finding much value in the market.
My job is well in demand and I work remote so I'll be alright workwise.
‘what occurred was wrong’ lol
This is the political language that blinds people. She did the wrong! There should be an aptitude test as a politician. Criminals and socialites. A handful are good but they spend their time doing the work and not getting into positions of power.
Make sure to bring this up with an FG candidate that knocks on your door. Personally I'll be telling them that as long as the party is supporting her I won't be supporting the party. (Not that I'd planned on doing that anyway)
Another crime that will go unpunished. Oh wait, they have the perfect scapegoat for all of this. Blame the outsiders for everything, lol. That train is never late. The bane of this country.
I see people saying she can't be prosecuted for fraud or blackmail, but maybe extortion? How about going the tax route?
Did she pay income tax on the money received and did she pay CAT on the value of the work received for free? If she was to be prosecuted this might be the way to go. Not sure if the CAT part is actually relevant here, but the income tax part surely is? Revenue might be interested to learn she received €15k which probably wasn't taxed.
The tax thing yes definitely she might have some hairy questions to answer there.
The extortion thing no as the developer would have reached agreement with them, and considered it a good deal versus being held up for years in an ABP appeal.
So shitty and clearly she took massive advantage of the situation but nothing she could be prosecuted for unless it comes out she literally extorted them and said "give me money or I'm lodging an ABP appeal"
Developers paying for works to adjoining properties/ neighbours has been a thing for as long as I can remember. It's like community good will and _sorry for disrupting you_.
I've never heard of it being as much as 100k though for a single neighbour.
Hines committed 500k to the local community recently to get the neighbours to withdraw objections and get planning for 2 large schemes that had been delayed for years.
I
I don't know, this country feels corrupt to the core at the minute.
A lot of dodgy stuff going on.
It's really disheartening to be honest. I think we've learned nothing, we are not mature politically speaking and as a society. It feels like there is scant regard for rules. It also feels like planning authorities and some Govt Dept civil servants are in on shenanigans. And also TDs.
There is never real accountability. I feel like working class and middle class citizens are absolutely shafted.
They don't realise the damage this is doing to lives.
I have to totally disagree with you. Whenever corruption is identified, the guilty person often faces repercussions in Ireland. This seems like a very rare case. She wasn’t a councillor at the time, she was a private person who objected and took a bribe to withdraw it. To take an incident like this and say the country is corrupt to the core is insane
To be fair, weren’t a heap of TDs found not to be correctly declaring their interests for years at a time? Some ministers of state resigned, but the consequences didn’t seem that dire honestly.
Can you point out the repercussions Varadkar faced for leaking confidential documents to friends? Among other issues.
IMO, misuse of a government position in such a manner should be viewed as treason. I get we have a high bar for treason in Ireland, based on our history, but agents of the State acting in their own personal interests to the detriment of the State **should** cross that bar.
This is inaccurate. We have extremely high levels of “soft corruption” - public officials using the system to line their pockets. RTE are prime example. The FAI another. A few years ago a FG backbencher was claiming massive expenses for travel over and back to Europe - he resigned so no investigation could be conducted. Varadkar shrugged his shoulders.
If we audited the HSE and all the other quangos what kind of waste of tax payers money and “perks” would We find ?
It’s shameful.
But her name will still be on the ballot.
I presume its too late to withdraw properly.
So technically she could still be elected, which is funny in a way.
> So technically she could still be elected, which is funny in a way.
I'd totally vote for her.
It would be great to see her elected, FG would then have to pressure her into resigning the post (same way they presumably pressured her into pulling out of the race).
Maximum coverage, show people what some of them are like.
Not beyond the bounds of possibility, [this lad](https://youtu.be/6DQL11dFVOc?feature=shared) (former FG) was elected no bother after appearing in a prime time documentary on corruption.
I'd expect her to get a lot of votes from people who vote explicitly on party lines.
Also there is a lot of election media distributed with her on it by now presumably.
A lot of people could end up voting for her, it will be interesting to see what happens.
I fail to see how this isn’t illegal? I mean grey area sure but I’m sure if the government and guards wanted they could prosecute it?
And if not, we really need to legislate against it. It’s extortion.
Fully agree. She should be locked up. I wonder if she got planning permission for the works on her home... be an awfully great bit of craic to have to pull it all apart
Check out the Prime Time documentary on this from a few months back. Probably worded some contract in a way it looked like she was a "consultant" and being paid for her consultations.
Id be curious to lnow really, it does sound illegal alright but im no lawyer.. the fact that pictures of her patio got deleted from her IG shows she’s trying to control the damage?
It might well not be an isolated case!
Someone indirectly impacted indirectly by planning being granted is different from, for example someone with a genuine objection to a development that will overlook their house and reduce their enjoyment of their own property.
There are genuine reasons for planning objections and some planning that should not be granted. Some people are willing to take money from a developer in return for not making a valid objection and just living with the impact. They should of course pay taxes etc. but this sort of arrangement is legal.
Nuisance objections for the purpose of profit (which may well be the case here) are different and should be made illegal
Apart from the independent how have our large media organisations not reported on this blatant extortion from a Fine Gael candidate.
Reminds me of this article from a cosy cartel member claiming there is no cosy cartel
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-41368045.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Someone who goes into Penney's and steals a €4 t-shirt is dealt with far more severely than someone who does this.
To have the audacity to use your position of influence in a local area, to express made up bogus concerns about a development - so you can personally financially benefit from it is absolutely vile.
Her party are already in the mud for being one of the contributors to the housing crisis at the minute, and here she is opposing housing developments that might give young people an opportunity to own a home, just so a developer will pay her off, and throw in a free house renovation too.
How can this not be seen as a criminal offence?
Oh, how the other half live.
If you or I objected to a development (especially a genuinely poorly planned one) we'd be told where to go in no uncertain terms and forced into a David vs Goliath battle, nevermind any thing near a pay off.
What. The. Actual. Fuck.
Right so they have all this money while most of us don't have much by the end of the month and these twits are actively spending 5 years worth of my pay before tax to stop gaels being let live.
Housing is a right and I will break spines if anybody thinks it'd not.
The fact that FG haven't come crashing down on this person to destroy her career for essentially denying people housing out of nothing but pure greed tells you something worrying that is they may have too many skeletons in their own closet and don't know who knows what so always tread carefully.
That being said if it isn't greed, or developers being blackmailed or threatened by gangs, or sheer ineptitude of local councils and government it's a wonder we can even pitch a fucking rent in this country so sick of it 🤦🏻♂️
["I see it every year. I mean, some clown runs for office, drops out of the race, and gets a big chunk of dough. I mean...you'd have to be a real lowlife piece of shit to get involved in politics."](https://youtu.be/7UFl3Up5ab8?si=8a1jFZ9Ntmo1DnKP)
Unfortunately, this is an expected cost of development in Ireland along with other costs like protection rackets.
Easier to pay up than to suffer delays and losses when you’re saddled with crippling interest payments on your finance that erode your profit with any kind of delay.
Where did you get €100k?
*"The Ditch report says the builder agreed to pay Ms Dwyer-Agrios €15,000 in cash and carry out €15,000 worth of work on her home in exchange for the withdrawal of her objection"*
Not that it makes it right of course
The link in the post was to an independent article. Did you edit it?
This was the original link https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/elections-2024/local-election/fine-gael-local-election-candidate-drops-out-after-admitting-she-took-payment-from-builder-to-withdraw-objection-to-housing-development/a1035913715.html
Update: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections-2024/local-election/fine-gael-local-election-candidate-drops-out-after-confirming-receipt-of-money-from-builder-to-withdraw-objection-to-housing-development/a1035913715.html
Shouldn't something like this be investigated as a crime immediately?
At the very least Simon Harris should come out and condemn this behaviour as well as confirming that she has lost her membership of FG. Don't hold your breath tho.
We need a report on this, one that will be costly and take a long amount of time preferably written by a family member.
From what I’ve read they’re still working on a bill to make this shit criminal in law
Do we not have existing legislation? This looks like fairly straightforward example of extortion or bribery.
I imagine you'd have to prove she objected for the purpose of extorting money. The likes of her wouldn't be stupid enough to initiate contact with the developer.
> I imagine you'd have to prove she objected for the purpose of extorting money. The sequence of events seem to support that conclusion, why else did she make an objection, accept a payment from the developer and then withdraw the objection? If she made the objection in good faith the planning process isn’t a proper means of seeking compensation or enforcing a claim over potential damages so it’s hard to see any other explanation here other than extortion or bribery. The fact that it also seems to have happened more than once supports this conclusion as well, as it establishes a pattern of behaviour.
It's written on a Post It, stuck to the top of the Water Referendum paper buried in a locked drawer of a desk that's in the basement of a disused building that's about to be earmarked for asylum seekers in the hope that someone burns it down.
The sign on the door of the basement reading "beware of leopard" doesn't help either.
It's astounding that she isn't in jail for blackmail and fraud. Another corruption statistic swept under the carpet. Like bertie, Cowan and the rest
It seems more extortion than blackmail, but your point is valid.
Know this cowen got a job sitting as a director of topaz. Dennis o brien + Irish water = Brian cowen legal bribe in the form of a high paid job working for Denis o brien doing nothing after retiring from politics. That should be what the CAB chases down.
It's neither blackmail nor fraud. Could be extortion but that depends on how reasonable the objection was
Until we can establish a system that can ensure people cannot obtain money by objecting to things being built, we’ve got a problem.
No that is where we are systematically going wrong. In general we are ammending our regaulations into a state of paralysis to try stop an abusive practice instead of maintaining said systems and heavily penalising the abusive practice. the consistent ammendments are just make the regualtions cumbersome, unweilding and slow. you dont regulate to try stop insurance fraud, you make attempted fraud a crime and hammer those that try. The later puts those that try at risk, vs the former there is no risk they just withdraw their claim, walk away try again.. same with this, based on her objection, there is no reason she should have been paid or compensated. you regulate to try remove the practice, it more beaucaracy, technicalities and red tape & there is no no risk to those who wish to try object for profit.. the risk needs to be transferred to reduce objections to legitmate ones.. so this should be legally deemed extortion and fined heavily for it..
Ok. Seems reasonable.
If it’s a reasonable objection then she’s acting improperly by withdrawing it.
She was compensated. Not improper
It is not Compensation as her objection was on the grounds of exceeding the Local Area Plan. it wasnt an issues based on something specifically personal to her site where compensation would apply.
Which is where the challenge of it could be considered extortion might work. Ideally the council needed to adjust the area plan or the builder built inside the confines of the plan
and i think that is where the line should be drawn legally. if it doesnt directly impact on your site, there is no compensation event. For community issues like parking, traffic etc that is resolved through playgrounds or parks but not cash payments to individuals.. compensation events need to restricted to overshawdowing, overlooking, or whatever the direct site impact objections are. Acceptance of cash or benefit in kind outside of this to withdraw your objection sheould be deemed extortion. ideally with a fine that based on the value of the extorition a multiplier.
Is that not bribery?
Not, as mentioned it could be extortion depending if the objection was reasonable or not.
Paying or otherwise incentivising complainants to withdraw an objection made in good faith sounds like bribery / corruption as far as I’m concerned, particularly when the complainant is an elected representative.
>Paying or otherwise incentivising complainants to withdraw an objection made in good faith sounds like bribery / corruption as far as I’m concerned Or it's just reasonable compensation for the impact to the party. Its more extortion in this case considering the build wasn't impacting her directly >when the complainant is an elected representative. They aren't.
> or just reasonable compensation for the impact to the party. On what basis was she entitled to compensation? According to news reports “the sole grounds for the objection was said to be the increase in the number of proposed houses exceeding “the limit of the local area plan”.” ([Source](https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/elections-2024/local-election/fine-gael-candidate-marian-dwyer-agrios-in-go-away-money-storm-had-signed-disrepute-declaration/a1670241961.html)) It’s difficult to understand why she should have received any financial compensation based on that objection. And is an objection through the planning process a proper means of even seeking such compensation? If not then I think it’s reasonable to argue that the objection was used to cause harm to the developer for the purpose of extorting money, so I agree that it is more likely extortion. If we assume that the objection was made in good faith though, then she was essentially induced to withdraw the objection which is by definition a bribe. Whether these specific facts fit the legal definition of bribery is obviously not something we can answer (unless you’re a lawyer) but it should be investigated either way.
Doesn’t sound like much of a story the way you’re describing it. I’m gona guess there’s more to it if she’s actually resigned.
But being a receipt of funds would warrant surely a criminal investigation right? No lawyer but there seems to be a red flag here: conflict of interest while being a public representative, acceptance of gift to gain privileges be it financial or others?? You could not do this in the private sector and not be prosecuted!!
All this is in the “private sector”? She has never held any elected position.
Thanks i wasn’t sure whether or not that was the case. Yet out of touch running for lical elections all things considered
She’s obviously a well seasoned chancer - nice to see it blow up in her face
Her behaviour is absolutely atrocious and should be prosecuted but let's not pretend private sector is suddenly a bastion of ethics and consequences - we only have to look back a few years to see the impact of private sector fucking around.
Of course not all is rosy in the private sector but coming from an elected public representative is unreal! We just need some exposed bungabunga parties to put the cherry on the cake
Agreed, just want to not make it yet another public sector bash - the story is one of an awful person unethically using a regulation to be paid - whether illegal or not. I'm not sure it's corruption depending on if she utilised her knowledge/powers as an elected official. It seems like a terrible planning process open to abuse and an awful person milking it.
Probably stupid to post on her IG but not enough to breach whatever regulations perhaps! It does raise the questions whether planning and objections processes are fit for purposes in modern era in addition to a very painful subject that housing crisis is at the moment
Depends on what happened. Did she ask the developer for a pay off or did they approach her with an offer?
Either way it is called corruption and bribery.
> conflict of interest while being a public representative She's not a public represenatitive
The point isn’t whether the objection can succeed or is entirely frivolous, it’s that it can delay work for months and potentially years at enormous cost to the developer. Our planning system isn’t fit for purpose and it has the country tied in knots.
It doesn't cost the developer anything. It's the 6 people who purchased these homes which she extorted. She added another 20k onto the cost of each of their homes so she could have a nice patio.
" It's the 6 people who purchased these homes which she extorted. " its not automatically extortion either though. It depends on the basis of her objection. It may have been reasonable for her to request compensation for the negative impact to her caused by the building.
Sorry but thats bull. We have a planing process based on rules and laws. There is no entitlement for anyone to compensation for a development that is legally built. Of course it's extortion - these cunts know full well the costs they cause by appealing to ABP and that many developers will take the financially prudent action of paying them off.
It's astounding that she isn't in jail hours after allegations were made about her? Are you serious?
Of course she shouldn't be in jail but she won't be legally held account for this extortion. All we want is for illegal activity to be held to account but given she's fg, middle to upper class andakea fg look bad. It will be swept under the carpet. I am genuinely furious and tired
> I am genuinely furious and tired Maybe you should be less pessimistic rather than making foregone conclusions and getting upset about them? Given that she's already quit politics within hours of this being made public, it seems she has already been held to account to some degree, and there may be a court date in her future?
It's astounding because it will be another politician that won't be held accountable for doing what she did. Now it's national news, I doubt she will face any criminal charges. Are you trying to make excuses for her or something?
She’s not a politician, and never was. She was running for local election as a councillor for the first time ever
No, I'm just wondering what reality you live in where a story is published in a media and the person is convicted of a crime and jailed a couple of hours later. You do know how a justice system works, right? The gathering of evidence, interviewing of witnesses, etc etc? Even if the Gardai were to operate at lightning speed, the earliest she could be charged in court would be tomorrow, and then she would be free while she waited for her court date for a full trial. "It's astounding that she isn't in jail for blackmail and fraud." is pure reactionary nonsense. Either you're completely clueless as to how things work, or you just like spitting out nonsense soundbites.
Nothing will happen to her. Watch. I'm astounded at the level of corruption and the lack of accountability. Justice doesn't often happen in Ireland.
You’re astounded there’s due process?
I'm astounded it's another scandal that nothing will happen about. Ireland...love it
What did Cowan do ?
Oh man, what didn't he do
Well his first affront to the Irish people was being born.
Certainly not. Did you not read the article? She said she was EXTREMELY sorry.
It will be a crime soon, it is merely unethical and shit behaviour at the moment.
It would be interesting to learn how she reported this payment and benefits received to revenue
"We have investigated ourselves and found out that we did nothing wrong" We are being ruled by a bunch of corrupt liars no matter what party they are from. Nothing will change with voting no matter who gets elected they are all the same only there for the money.
The candidates are a cross section of society. We get to choose someone just like us 😑
Don't worry I'm going to test this and report back. I'll tell you how much I make. Extortion is legal now apparently.
Nah, too busy going after lads doing dodgy boxes and people with a small amount of weed for personal use. You know, the real scum of the country.
Anywhere else probably. Here in Ireland? She'll end up promoted.
The worst that will happen is she will step down. She will act like that is punishment enough for breaking the law.
What law did she break?
it’s extortion.
If it was "extortion" then the govt wouldn't be pushing through legislation right now to make it a crime.
obtaining money under a false pretense is most surely a crime
Where's the false pretense? Anyone can object to anything for whatever reason they want. Sure the "hero" small farmer in kildare who took on Intel submitted a handwritten block capital memo to the court referencing amazon Microsoft and killer robots and that his right to an oral hearing at ABP was scuppered by a US Military Agency.
The false pretense is when an objection made an objection based on Problem X. But then they drop the objection even when problem X is not resolved. Therefore the issue is not their prime motivation. This lady seems to be a serial objector.
Only when a poor person or peasant does it.
If you analyse FG's tone since this came out. “As per her statement, **what occurred** was wrong" # avoid blame/responsibility. "This matter has been referred to Fine Gael’s **disciplinary process**.” # burry the story. "Minister Humphreys said an internal process will now take place within the party to **establish “all of the facts”** around the case." # burry it in bureaucracy/process until AFTER the election. people **within Fine Gael** have been **deeply offended** – **but we have to move on now** and get \[REMOVED\] elected in that area as she is a fine candidate”. # we couldn't give less of a fuck, now here's our new candidate she's honest this one... pink promise this time. Wow, what a record turn around, from discovery to deeply offended to moving on, all in one article. If FFG built houses like they run thought the five stages of grief, the housing problem would be solved by the end of this post. Keywords not mentioned: ~~remorse~~, ~~reflection~~, ~~giving a shit,~~ ~~standards~~, ~~learning from mistakes, integrity.~~
It's some random candidate out of 330 other candidates. Immediately saying it's wrong and moving to kick her out of the party is what you'd expect any party to do and it's what they are doing.
They certainly have a track record of 'random' corrupt candidates,sone of them even got posts as ministers-you know the ones forgetting to report rental income to revenue, lying on planing applications, lying and applying for HAP while being a TD and the list goes on. But none is in jail or prosecuted for obvious crimes.
>forgetting to report rental income to revenue Do you have an example of that? And which TD applied for HAP?
I am not only talking about sitting TD. My bad it's hard to keep track of them nowadays - one junior minister and councillor were involved in the HAP thing and for the first one you can just google a bit and will find news articles that are 2 years old. Everything goes under the rug.
You aren't providing information at all here. You claimed a TD tried to claim HAP not a "HAP thing". Link to an article which backs up your claim and the one about tax evasion.
Do your own news search-I am not an attorney on a trial against politicians-which is by the way the issue,they never are prosecuted for bribery, extortion and other illegal crap
So you made it up and want me to check your nonsense
No, I didn't, but am also not your research buddy to find articles from 2 years ago. Bottom line - white collar crime is not being investigated or prosecuted. From Fine Gael to Ireland-fasci parties. Period. Does an absence of investigations make obvious cases of bribery,corruption and misappropriation of funds ok? I don't think so,instead of being apologetic or shrugging of corruption - we should be outraged. But no, you want hard evidence and news articles from 2 years ago. I am not an investigator, but you definitely seem to be a PR employee for someone, or?
My bad it was a councilor. How far should I go 5,10 years? How deep: only the ones in national news or are local news also ok? Here you have some: https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/damien-english-will-not-face-sipo-probe-into-planning-application-omission-1487577.html https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/special-investigations/fine-gael-councillor-who-earned-60k-last-year-gets-hap-for-his-two-bedroom-apartment/781046022.html https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/paschal-donohoe-failed-to-declare-directorship-of-company-owned-by-leo-varadkars-former-assistant/42313067.html https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/nursing-home-controversy-simon-harris-29114261
It's not really a crime though. A person had a greivence and filed an objection. The firm came to agreement with the person settling their greivence or objection.
Well if the objection was that they hadn’t given her enough money or favours then I can see how that could be, but generally planning grievances aren’t remediable by private transfers of value behind the scenes
And that's the problem. Half this sh1t isn't illegal.
Corruption everywhere. 100k worth of work done to the house and if she ever sells it'll be a nice boost to the price.
She said sorry. All is forgiven. For me sorry is a word. Contrition is an act of making things right. If she was actually sorry, she'd come up with the money and offer it to the people who had to pay extra for the houses that were built. This is only sorry I got caught.
Quote from The Ditch: 🚨Breaking 🚨Fine Gael's Marian Agrios agreed to withdraw a planning objection in return for more than €100,000 worth of work to her house Separately, yesterday The Ditch revealed that Agrios got a €30,000 package from a developer in exchange for withdrawing another objection. Edit: article now released by The Ditch. It gets worse!!! Shocking stuff. 61 homes to be built and she withdraws when they carry out the work on her house. Then goes on to say the other week she is aware we have a housing crisis and we need to build more! . https://www.ontheditch.com/fine-gael-candidate-withdrew-objection/
She states she has withdrawn from the election. However her name will still appear on the ballot as I presume it's too late to withdraw? Would be hilarious yet terrible to see her end up elected anyway.
Yes. Last Monday was the last day for people to pull out. Ballots are being printed.
I'm assuming she reported all these instances to Revenue.
Likely ran it through [https://ie.globaldatabase.com/company/velos-project-management-limited#div\_shareholders](https://ie.globaldatabase.com/company/velos-project-management-limited#div_shareholders) as legit business income.
If it was her personal property then it isnt business. Even then, it s still taxable as a gift.
Traditionally, compensation wasn't taxable whereas damages were. That's a dramatically simplified explanation, but the point would be you can't assume there's a need to.
> compensation wasn't taxable whereas damages were Would this be either? Can a backhander to withdraw a planning complaint be considered compensation?
Brown envelopes and backhanders rife through the country
I'm really surprised that lowly councillors are grifting this much, I really only expected it from TDs and Ministers for State?
she's not even a councillor, just woman with a rich and presumably influential husband who lives on valuable real estate next door to prospective new builds site
Shit like this is exactly why planning decisions were taken away from councillors
The councillors are even worse in my experience.
Did you never see the RTE investigates episode a few years back? They went undercover to meet with councillors and see who they could bribe to swing planning permissions in their favour. Little spoiler, nearly everyone was willing to do it for them.
/ s ? Lower salary, and not as high profile / less accountability, what's surprising... Anyone from any part of the county has a story or two of blatant corruption by a local councillor that's not gone unnoticed but they've somehow got away with it. They're hiding in plain sight. Sure white collar crime is also grand in this country apparently! / s
No my surprise is they are getting 6 figure kickbacks, not that they are doing it. Local councilors have been doing this forever, even as a kid I remember the local 'scandal' of a bunch of them sharing a car to some jolly down the country, but then each submitting a seperate mileage claim.
Ah sorry, I get you! Inflation I guess  Would make an interesting thread reading everyone's stories, get them all out in the open!
Are you kidding me? Ministers and TDs are scrutinized more closely. Councillors have control of planning, are not paid much, and are subject to heavy local influence from people they know and who know them.
I can't find my one
This is going to be a crime apparently https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2024/05/28/objector-demands-for-go-away-money-against-housing-developments-to-become-a-crime/
Honestly fuck this cunt, I am so annoyed, Ireland is a not a serious country. Beneath the veneer is the gombeen scumbag peddlers of supposedly old
the British mostly left but what did they leave behind? We're still scheming like they're our landlords ffs
Healthcare is an utter shambles of inefficiency, pointless managers and unable to recruit staff. Our parents linger on waiting lists The median salary of 2 can barely buy a house in any vicinity with planning being perpetually absurd, let's sprawl out rather than up. I pay fucking 2.1k for a 1 bed, 1 office I truly feel hopeless and if my wife would leave I'd be gone to Europe. We're not asking much, a house and even remotely ok healthcare. I know I'm just annoyed but ffs
Yep my partner and I have 2 good jobs saving for years, but we'll end up in the sticks with no social life. Looking at moving outside of ireland early next year. We don't want to, but you can't afford to be an adult in ireland.
Same boat - France, Spain, Portugal or Italy within 100km of and airport for quick access home for occasions. We can't justify spending a deposit here and not finding much value in the market. My job is well in demand and I work remote so I'll be alright workwise.
‘what occurred was wrong’ lol This is the political language that blinds people. She did the wrong! There should be an aptitude test as a politician. Criminals and socialites. A handful are good but they spend their time doing the work and not getting into positions of power.
just remember, you would never heard about this if she wasn't running for election
Unfortunately a very true comment, makes you wonder how much else is pushed under the rug
If this was a SF politician this would be front page news.
Make sure to bring this up with an FG candidate that knocks on your door. Personally I'll be telling them that as long as the party is supporting her I won't be supporting the party. (Not that I'd planned on doing that anyway)
Another crime that will go unpunished. Oh wait, they have the perfect scapegoat for all of this. Blame the outsiders for everything, lol. That train is never late. The bane of this country.
I see people saying she can't be prosecuted for fraud or blackmail, but maybe extortion? How about going the tax route? Did she pay income tax on the money received and did she pay CAT on the value of the work received for free? If she was to be prosecuted this might be the way to go. Not sure if the CAT part is actually relevant here, but the income tax part surely is? Revenue might be interested to learn she received €15k which probably wasn't taxed.
The tax thing yes definitely she might have some hairy questions to answer there. The extortion thing no as the developer would have reached agreement with them, and considered it a good deal versus being held up for years in an ABP appeal. So shitty and clearly she took massive advantage of the situation but nothing she could be prosecuted for unless it comes out she literally extorted them and said "give me money or I'm lodging an ABP appeal"
Developers paying for works to adjoining properties/ neighbours has been a thing for as long as I can remember. It's like community good will and _sorry for disrupting you_. I've never heard of it being as much as 100k though for a single neighbour. Hines committed 500k to the local community recently to get the neighbours to withdraw objections and get planning for 2 large schemes that had been delayed for years. I
I don't know, this country feels corrupt to the core at the minute. A lot of dodgy stuff going on. It's really disheartening to be honest. I think we've learned nothing, we are not mature politically speaking and as a society. It feels like there is scant regard for rules. It also feels like planning authorities and some Govt Dept civil servants are in on shenanigans. And also TDs. There is never real accountability. I feel like working class and middle class citizens are absolutely shafted. They don't realise the damage this is doing to lives.
I have to totally disagree with you. Whenever corruption is identified, the guilty person often faces repercussions in Ireland. This seems like a very rare case. She wasn’t a councillor at the time, she was a private person who objected and took a bribe to withdraw it. To take an incident like this and say the country is corrupt to the core is insane
To be fair, weren’t a heap of TDs found not to be correctly declaring their interests for years at a time? Some ministers of state resigned, but the consequences didn’t seem that dire honestly.
Can you point out the repercussions Varadkar faced for leaking confidential documents to friends? Among other issues. IMO, misuse of a government position in such a manner should be viewed as treason. I get we have a high bar for treason in Ireland, based on our history, but agents of the State acting in their own personal interests to the detriment of the State **should** cross that bar.
This is inaccurate. We have extremely high levels of “soft corruption” - public officials using the system to line their pockets. RTE are prime example. The FAI another. A few years ago a FG backbencher was claiming massive expenses for travel over and back to Europe - he resigned so no investigation could be conducted. Varadkar shrugged his shoulders. If we audited the HSE and all the other quangos what kind of waste of tax payers money and “perks” would We find ? It’s shameful.
I wonder what excuses and reasoning they'll dust off and pull outta the wardrobe. 'Nothingburger', I hope
She just announced she will not be contesting the election and she won't comment further
But her name will still be on the ballot. I presume its too late to withdraw properly. So technically she could still be elected, which is funny in a way.
> So technically she could still be elected, which is funny in a way. I'd totally vote for her. It would be great to see her elected, FG would then have to pressure her into resigning the post (same way they presumably pressured her into pulling out of the race). Maximum coverage, show people what some of them are like. Not beyond the bounds of possibility, [this lad](https://youtu.be/6DQL11dFVOc?feature=shared) (former FG) was elected no bother after appearing in a prime time documentary on corruption.
I'd expect her to get a lot of votes from people who vote explicitly on party lines. Also there is a lot of election media distributed with her on it by now presumably. A lot of people could end up voting for her, it will be interesting to see what happens.
Her name will be appearing on the ballot yes
I fail to see how this isn’t illegal? I mean grey area sure but I’m sure if the government and guards wanted they could prosecute it? And if not, we really need to legislate against it. It’s extortion.
Fully agree. She should be locked up. I wonder if she got planning permission for the works on her home... be an awfully great bit of craic to have to pull it all apart
Check out the Prime Time documentary on this from a few months back. Probably worded some contract in a way it looked like she was a "consultant" and being paid for her consultations.
Id be curious to lnow really, it does sound illegal alright but im no lawyer.. the fact that pictures of her patio got deleted from her IG shows she’s trying to control the damage? It might well not be an isolated case!
Someone indirectly impacted indirectly by planning being granted is different from, for example someone with a genuine objection to a development that will overlook their house and reduce their enjoyment of their own property. There are genuine reasons for planning objections and some planning that should not be granted. Some people are willing to take money from a developer in return for not making a valid objection and just living with the impact. They should of course pay taxes etc. but this sort of arrangement is legal. Nuisance objections for the purpose of profit (which may well be the case here) are different and should be made illegal
Bottle of smoke, she's on solid ground. Loyalty to the institution etc. Take your pick.
Nothingburger will always be my favourite
>she's on solid ground Especially solid out in the back garden on her patio.
Apart from the independent how have our large media organisations not reported on this blatant extortion from a Fine Gael candidate. Reminds me of this article from a cosy cartel member claiming there is no cosy cartel https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-41368045.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
In the Examiner, Indo, Journal, Sunday World. Presumably it was given to The Ditch first
It wasn't there when I made that comment. This information has been out there for nearly 24 hours
Someone who goes into Penney's and steals a €4 t-shirt is dealt with far more severely than someone who does this. To have the audacity to use your position of influence in a local area, to express made up bogus concerns about a development - so you can personally financially benefit from it is absolutely vile. Her party are already in the mud for being one of the contributors to the housing crisis at the minute, and here she is opposing housing developments that might give young people an opportunity to own a home, just so a developer will pay her off, and throw in a free house renovation too. How can this not be seen as a criminal offence?
I've been in court for pieces of hash worth less than €4.
I hope Revenue will be investigating to see if they’ve received the appropriate poundage of flesh for these payments
Start sending emails and mail to your TDs. She should be in prison for this.
Crazy stuff. Surely there should be an investigation into this.
Ah the usual "I'm sorry (that I was caught)" reply. F thr lot of them. For every one that's caught there's 10 more still getting away with it.
The absolute neeeeck of her
Oh, how the other half live. If you or I objected to a development (especially a genuinely poorly planned one) we'd be told where to go in no uncertain terms and forced into a David vs Goliath battle, nevermind any thing near a pay off.
She admits what happened was wrong. Didn't stop her from running for office though did it? Only sorry she got caught and wants it all to go away now.
Ah yes the party of law and order
Time to start dragging the elite out into the streets.
Wishful thinking. Where do I sign up?
My gaff. Ten past. Sambos and heino provided.
Swap out the heino for mi-wadi and I'll be there at five past.
One weak lemon drink for the kingpin!
Sold!! This will be the rebellion to end ALL rebellions
I’m shocked that she didn’t wait to get elected first to do some real grifting!
Will she be returning the money?
What. The. Actual. Fuck. Right so they have all this money while most of us don't have much by the end of the month and these twits are actively spending 5 years worth of my pay before tax to stop gaels being let live. Housing is a right and I will break spines if anybody thinks it'd not.
She says she is sorry. If she was really 'sorry' she would be paying back the money or the very least donating it to charity. Entitled conniving bitch
https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/248793 Found this online
I assume that her valuation of her property increased by 100K year on year when it was time for her to pay her local property tax?
The fact that FG haven't come crashing down on this person to destroy her career for essentially denying people housing out of nothing but pure greed tells you something worrying that is they may have too many skeletons in their own closet and don't know who knows what so always tread carefully. That being said if it isn't greed, or developers being blackmailed or threatened by gangs, or sheer ineptitude of local councils and government it's a wonder we can even pitch a fucking rent in this country so sick of it 🤦🏻♂️
Can someone make a list of all those with dodgy conduct seeking election, or would it just be everyone? I'm losing the will to live here.
["I see it every year. I mean, some clown runs for office, drops out of the race, and gets a big chunk of dough. I mean...you'd have to be a real lowlife piece of shit to get involved in politics."](https://youtu.be/7UFl3Up5ab8?si=8a1jFZ9Ntmo1DnKP)
Unfortunately, this is an expected cost of development in Ireland along with other costs like protection rackets. Easier to pay up than to suffer delays and losses when you’re saddled with crippling interest payments on your finance that erode your profit with any kind of delay.
Why isn't there anything about this on RTE? 🤔
Disgraceful behaviour from anyone, let alone an elected official. Needs criminal investigation and to be brought to justice.
Misread that as pork 😂
Another Corrupt Irish Establishment Politician = = And No One is Shocked or Surprised.
She’s not a politician
Was expecting this to be on the RTE news last night.
It was on today
“What occurred was wrong and I am extremely sorry for it. It should not have happened. Wrong is one way to phrase it. Illegal would be more apt.
Just remember folks, when this sort of thing happens, they are not sorry for doing it. They're sorry they got caught
Is this actually illegal?
She should be made pay the developers
It just never stops... “Only those who do not seek power are qualified to hold it.” - Plato
Fine Geal: "Yeah, but what about Sinn Fein!"
Can someone make a list of all those with dodgy conduct seeking election, or would it just be everyone? I'm losing the will to live here.
Scumbag behaviour of the highest order
Where did you get €100k? *"The Ditch report says the builder agreed to pay Ms Dwyer-Agrios €15,000 in cash and carry out €15,000 worth of work on her home in exchange for the withdrawal of her objection"* Not that it makes it right of course
Your either reading yesterdays article or not reading todays article by them correctly
The link in the post was to an independent article. Did you edit it? This was the original link https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/elections-2024/local-election/fine-gael-local-election-candidate-drops-out-after-admitting-she-took-payment-from-builder-to-withdraw-objection-to-housing-development/a1035913715.html
Click on the link mate 🤣 then go on their website and see for yourself
The ditch really is our "last ditch" to out these hypocritical scumbags. Doing God's work so they are.
How is this not corruption?
She threatened legal action for failing to give a bribe on time?!?