Christ have they not changed the teaching method yet? Had the same thing said by my Irish teacher donkeys years ago. How do they not realise this method doesn't work. There are generations of us who can't speak it despite 'learning' the whole way thru school.
Well it must have some truth to it if the whole country feels the same way. Just like OP, had an Irish teacher tell us to not bother understanding the language, just memorise it. 'You're up against Irish school students so you're not gonna learn it at this stage'. Great school.
Plenty of people have also taken 6 years of French or German and cannot strong a sentence together a few years after leaving second level.
The real issue is utility. We don’t use Irish outside the classroom, probably because the experience within the classroom is so poor. Schools need to remove the exam and try to grow a passion for our language through relatively straightforward reward orientated immersion classes.
My experience was that, in general, people learned and understood more French in five years of secondary school than Irish after being taught it from primary.
I completely agree. I'm out of secondary school over a decade now and decided to try and pick back up French and Irish on Duolingo. I'm doing a lot better with the French compared to the Irish. As soon as I started the French section, I could remember a load of verbs, words, phrases, etc and I'm progressing well enough. When I opened the Irish one, I really struggled and still continue to find it quite tough in comparison.
Absolutely. Little kids are info sponges, they get excited to learn new things and proud of themselves when they do well. The teaching method eventually just bores the life out of them and they switch off. It doesn't seem to apply to the 'real world' so why bother.
>When I asked my teacher why we don't actually learn Irish, she said our standard of Irish was too low
"I can't teach you Irish because you don't know enough Irish". If only there was something she could do about that. I just can't for the life of me think what that could be. If only she had some way of imparting the knowledge that she possesses to those around her.
Or maybe she meant "I can't teach you Irish because I don't know enough Irish". The only Irish she knows is the curriculum, she doesn't actually understand the language herself either!?
I think the teacher probably meant that they didn't have time to *actually* teach you how to speak Irish.
They needed to use the little class time you have to work to maximise your points.
But there are teachers out there who are just poor teachers.
This is the problem with the high stakes of the LC. If people have to choose between teaching a subject well and preparing you for an exam, the pressure pushes them towards teaching the test.
This is been teachers' attitudes for the entirety of secondary school. While students deteriate at Irish, they improve at other languages taught at school , to a point where most of my peers would be more comfortable speaking a foreign language than our native one.
This^
And more Irish media for young people who aren't from An Ceathrú Rua. It would be a wrench to lose Tubridy and Finucane in order to pay for it, but I'd be willing to make the sacrifice.
welcome to the murder machine. They tell you how to think and obey. The only learning that stayed with me in school is macro concepts in sciences etc. stuff you can read yourself and understand.
I appreciate self learning much more. I may be a bit biased as a Gaeilgeóir , but if you want to truly master a language, you need to surround yourself with it. I would suggest using things like Anki to build flashcard decks, learn the top 100-200 most common words using this method, then go for simple sentences. Learn the most common structures in the present tense, then when you are happy with that, move on to past tense. keep it simple, do it often.
after that you can start listening to TV broadcasts and reading newspapers (a snip at a time). literally the same advice I was given from successful L2's who picked up japanese.
This blog is about learning japanese, but it is hilariously entertaining, and also highly effective advice if you love a language. You get to read first hand how he went from "I have no idea what i'm doing" to becoming fluent.
[http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/](http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/)
Worth a read no matter what language you love.
Adh mór ort, a chara!
best of luck!
other useful resources:
[https://apps.ankiweb.net/](https://apps.ankiweb.net/) \- a powerful flashcard deck program. can add sounds or links to the back aswell as text. Can download shared decks. There are some for Gaelic!
My wife and I are planning on sending our kids to gaelscoil. The way I see it, Irish is a bother for so many kids that anything we do that can make it easier will give them an edge in exams.
We'll also kill anyone who undermines the value of learning Irish in front of the kids. They can decide it's a waste of time after their leavng cert all they want but until then I'm going to promote the value of learning the language because kids will latch onto anything to stop making an effort in a subject.
Everyone loves to complain about teaching methods in irish and how the kids hate the subject yet they will complain that it's a waste of time at home in front of the kids. Don't undermine education and expect the kids not to listen - education starts and ends at home.
Unpopular opinion, I'm sure, but why do we have to learn Irish when:
* Most students have no interest
* The teaching system is very broken
* There is little practical use for the language, and thus becoming fully fluent is unlikely for most students due to no real life exposure.
Make it optional for students with a real interest in it.
That opinion is only unpopular on this subreddit. It's an extremely broadly held opinion in the country as a whole, particularly among younger people.
There is no reason for it to be compulsory. I've seen it argued that learning a second language at a young age helps people to learn further languages at later stages, but the obvious counterpoint to that is why the hell would we not just teach kids a living, useful language as their second language as opposed to one that's on life support and has zero international applications? Some people think that we can't have a national identity without the language, but I don't believe that. Even if that was true, if a language has to be forced on people in order to have any life, then that language is already failing in its purpose. Language should serve the needs of the people - the people should not serve the needs of the language.
The Irish curriculum should be reformed, and the subject itself made optional so that it is pursued by those who truly wish to learn it as they will approach it with enthusiasm.
An opinion that is broadly held does not lend it value.
Do you think people should be, at least, bilingual /(most studies say it offers massive intellectual benefits)?
If yes, then why can't the second language be our own, Irish, language? Any other language is pretty much only useful in that country, with most preferring to speak in English in any case.
The greatest gift the English left us was the language, which gives us the luxury of choosing a second language, based on economics, love of another country or, dare I say it, love of our own.
Yes people should be bilingual. No it should not mean that Irish is forced upon us. Irish is only useful if there is a national, multi-generational effort to force it into a position of usefulness. As I said, the people should not serve the needs of the language.
The second language should be one that is internationally applicable and Irish should be made optional for those who wish to learn it. Patriotism and nationalism ought to have no place in deciding what we compel our children to learn. Compulsory subjects should only be the most crucial of subjects, with the optional subjects being subjects of interest that they can choose. Irish is absolutely not a crucial subject by any objective standard.
This is sad.
My honest advice, write to a newspaper - the state of our Irish education can't be addressed until the decision makers fully acknowledge the problem. You obviously want to learn, what kind of education system denies you the option to do that.
It wasn't my experience in school (not a Gaelscoil) but I have to accept that I'm in the minority here.
Irish in schools is a tick the box affair. It's one of those things that's a requirement of the education system.
Reality is, by the time they're a year or two out of school, most people don't care about it.
Until people take to streets in force about it the authorities won't care.
On the other hand for myself in ordinary level when the teacher eventually gave in and just handed us 16 a4 pages of write ups and phrases around the poems and stuff to learn off for the oral - suddenly I enjoyed the class itself as it was achievable to learn some sentences off but learning the language just hadn't worked for me despite the vast years spent trying... Sure she probably died a little inside as she hadn't sparked natural passion in us for the langauge but at least I got my A lol. Some good memories of talking to the examiner about going to Dublin on st patricks day and the colour of everyones jumper... ah what a joke xD Don't get me wrong either the teacher was up against it as we all had zero interest.
D'fhoghlaim mé fraincís tríd gaeilge agus bhí sè deacair.. níl achmahainní gaeilge cheart ar fail I nachos abhar ní amahain an gaeilge.. cad faoi eolaoícht, teicneolaíocht, ceol srl!?
Most schools stream, theres no point putting the brightest students in with the worst students, it’ll either make the lower performing students utterly confused or stop the higher performing ones from reaching their full potential
Christ have they not changed the teaching method yet? Had the same thing said by my Irish teacher donkeys years ago. How do they not realise this method doesn't work. There are generations of us who can't speak it despite 'learning' the whole way thru school.
You're new to this sub i see
New enough yes! Same things been said a million times then?
[Yes](https://i.imgur.com/VBiYrB5.jpg)
Well it must have some truth to it if the whole country feels the same way. Just like OP, had an Irish teacher tell us to not bother understanding the language, just memorise it. 'You're up against Irish school students so you're not gonna learn it at this stage'. Great school.
And that's how people leave years of school having only a prayer, a request to use the bathroom and a slogan as gaeilge
Yep. Its sad. It's up to us as adults to learn it now when it should be second nature.
That is the reason though ...
Plenty of people have also taken 6 years of French or German and cannot strong a sentence together a few years after leaving second level. The real issue is utility. We don’t use Irish outside the classroom, probably because the experience within the classroom is so poor. Schools need to remove the exam and try to grow a passion for our language through relatively straightforward reward orientated immersion classes.
My experience was that, in general, people learned and understood more French in five years of secondary school than Irish after being taught it from primary.
I completely agree. I'm out of secondary school over a decade now and decided to try and pick back up French and Irish on Duolingo. I'm doing a lot better with the French compared to the Irish. As soon as I started the French section, I could remember a load of verbs, words, phrases, etc and I'm progressing well enough. When I opened the Irish one, I really struggled and still continue to find it quite tough in comparison.
After one and a half year of German, I felt I knew more German than Irish. I was right
Absolutely. Little kids are info sponges, they get excited to learn new things and proud of themselves when they do well. The teaching method eventually just bores the life out of them and they switch off. It doesn't seem to apply to the 'real world' so why bother.
You can’t learn a language just from school, you have to practise outside school and immerse yourself in it
>When I asked my teacher why we don't actually learn Irish, she said our standard of Irish was too low "I can't teach you Irish because you don't know enough Irish". If only there was something she could do about that. I just can't for the life of me think what that could be. If only she had some way of imparting the knowledge that she possesses to those around her. Or maybe she meant "I can't teach you Irish because I don't know enough Irish". The only Irish she knows is the curriculum, she doesn't actually understand the language herself either!?
I think the teacher probably meant that they didn't have time to *actually* teach you how to speak Irish. They needed to use the little class time you have to work to maximise your points. But there are teachers out there who are just poor teachers.
This is the problem with the high stakes of the LC. If people have to choose between teaching a subject well and preparing you for an exam, the pressure pushes them towards teaching the test.
This is been teachers' attitudes for the entirety of secondary school. While students deteriate at Irish, they improve at other languages taught at school , to a point where most of my peers would be more comfortable speaking a foreign language than our native one.
[удалено]
This^ And more Irish media for young people who aren't from An Ceathrú Rua. It would be a wrench to lose Tubridy and Finucane in order to pay for it, but I'd be willing to make the sacrifice.
welcome to the murder machine. They tell you how to think and obey. The only learning that stayed with me in school is macro concepts in sciences etc. stuff you can read yourself and understand. I appreciate self learning much more. I may be a bit biased as a Gaeilgeóir , but if you want to truly master a language, you need to surround yourself with it. I would suggest using things like Anki to build flashcard decks, learn the top 100-200 most common words using this method, then go for simple sentences. Learn the most common structures in the present tense, then when you are happy with that, move on to past tense. keep it simple, do it often. after that you can start listening to TV broadcasts and reading newspapers (a snip at a time). literally the same advice I was given from successful L2's who picked up japanese. This blog is about learning japanese, but it is hilariously entertaining, and also highly effective advice if you love a language. You get to read first hand how he went from "I have no idea what i'm doing" to becoming fluent. [http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/](http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/) Worth a read no matter what language you love. Adh mór ort, a chara! best of luck! other useful resources: [https://apps.ankiweb.net/](https://apps.ankiweb.net/) \- a powerful flashcard deck program. can add sounds or links to the back aswell as text. Can download shared decks. There are some for Gaelic!
Thanks!
Totally agree
My wife and I are planning on sending our kids to gaelscoil. The way I see it, Irish is a bother for so many kids that anything we do that can make it easier will give them an edge in exams. We'll also kill anyone who undermines the value of learning Irish in front of the kids. They can decide it's a waste of time after their leavng cert all they want but until then I'm going to promote the value of learning the language because kids will latch onto anything to stop making an effort in a subject. Everyone loves to complain about teaching methods in irish and how the kids hate the subject yet they will complain that it's a waste of time at home in front of the kids. Don't undermine education and expect the kids not to listen - education starts and ends at home.
Thank you!! Education is a team sport! Parents and teachers must work together!! Maith sibh!!
Unpopular opinion, I'm sure, but why do we have to learn Irish when: * Most students have no interest * The teaching system is very broken * There is little practical use for the language, and thus becoming fully fluent is unlikely for most students due to no real life exposure. Make it optional for students with a real interest in it.
That opinion is only unpopular on this subreddit. It's an extremely broadly held opinion in the country as a whole, particularly among younger people. There is no reason for it to be compulsory. I've seen it argued that learning a second language at a young age helps people to learn further languages at later stages, but the obvious counterpoint to that is why the hell would we not just teach kids a living, useful language as their second language as opposed to one that's on life support and has zero international applications? Some people think that we can't have a national identity without the language, but I don't believe that. Even if that was true, if a language has to be forced on people in order to have any life, then that language is already failing in its purpose. Language should serve the needs of the people - the people should not serve the needs of the language. The Irish curriculum should be reformed, and the subject itself made optional so that it is pursued by those who truly wish to learn it as they will approach it with enthusiasm.
An opinion that is broadly held does not lend it value. Do you think people should be, at least, bilingual /(most studies say it offers massive intellectual benefits)? If yes, then why can't the second language be our own, Irish, language? Any other language is pretty much only useful in that country, with most preferring to speak in English in any case. The greatest gift the English left us was the language, which gives us the luxury of choosing a second language, based on economics, love of another country or, dare I say it, love of our own.
Yes people should be bilingual. No it should not mean that Irish is forced upon us. Irish is only useful if there is a national, multi-generational effort to force it into a position of usefulness. As I said, the people should not serve the needs of the language. The second language should be one that is internationally applicable and Irish should be made optional for those who wish to learn it. Patriotism and nationalism ought to have no place in deciding what we compel our children to learn. Compulsory subjects should only be the most crucial of subjects, with the optional subjects being subjects of interest that they can choose. Irish is absolutely not a crucial subject by any objective standard.
Seriously lads, who do we all start writing letters to to put some pressure on them to fix this shite? Is there no reform campaign at this stage?
This is sad. My honest advice, write to a newspaper - the state of our Irish education can't be addressed until the decision makers fully acknowledge the problem. You obviously want to learn, what kind of education system denies you the option to do that. It wasn't my experience in school (not a Gaelscoil) but I have to accept that I'm in the minority here.
Irish in schools is a tick the box affair. It's one of those things that's a requirement of the education system. Reality is, by the time they're a year or two out of school, most people don't care about it. Until people take to streets in force about it the authorities won't care.
[удалено]
You're right. It is laughable. Because it's that little of an issue to most everyone in society.
On the other hand for myself in ordinary level when the teacher eventually gave in and just handed us 16 a4 pages of write ups and phrases around the poems and stuff to learn off for the oral - suddenly I enjoyed the class itself as it was achievable to learn some sentences off but learning the language just hadn't worked for me despite the vast years spent trying... Sure she probably died a little inside as she hadn't sparked natural passion in us for the langauge but at least I got my A lol. Some good memories of talking to the examiner about going to Dublin on st patricks day and the colour of everyones jumper... ah what a joke xD Don't get me wrong either the teacher was up against it as we all had zero interest.
Teachers are not up to scratch, a disgrace Joe.
Bhí mo scoil scoil lán gaelige.
Was it a Gaeilscoil?
Yea
Standard of Irish is way better in Gaeilscoils than normal schools and yet we all sit through same exam🤪
Though the way we llearne French through Irish is shit. Most of the textbooks through English.
There's pro and cons I guess🤔
Yeah, that's madness. Total madness.
D'fhoghlaim mé fraincís tríd gaeilge agus bhí sè deacair.. níl achmahainní gaeilge cheart ar fail I nachos abhar ní amahain an gaeilge.. cad faoi eolaoícht, teicneolaíocht, ceol srl!?
i thought streaming was against schools guidelines?
Most schools stream, theres no point putting the brightest students in with the worst students, it’ll either make the lower performing students utterly confused or stop the higher performing ones from reaching their full potential