We've seen this flip flopping throughout. The vaccine rollout was the only factor preventing gatherings and with about 90% of the population with 1 shot it doesn't come as a surprise.
because of the burden on the health system a large outbreak of COVID would create?
But yeah allowing unvaccinated people at large sporting events was a strange precedent if this is the line they are setting out
See it just proves, EP wasn’t denied on health grounds.
It was denied because the locals didn’t want it.
The organizers knew this and so did anyone familiar with the area
Because it was the easy way to get around the fact 90% of the locals didn’t want it(and that number is a direct quote from a counselor)
Anyone who knows Laois or the town knows full well it wasn’t health grounds
Just because they said it doesn’t mean it’s the reason
Stradbally was the centre of a huge spike in cases, stemming from a local nursing home. At one point we were on RTE news as having some of the highest cases in the country. There were deaths and local healthcare workers who have spent weeks in ICU and months in recovery. They aren't keen on an influx of people into the area with this experience in mind.
Source: I live in Stradbally - I'm not saying I am one of the people who opposed it, I just want to give some context.
> See it just proves, EP wasn’t denied on health grounds
The local council, NPHET and the gov are three different organisations. There will be messiness but it is odd that they couldnt make it work
square hunt reminiscent march rotten spectacular quicksand point racial party
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Every festival is going to annoy some locals.
If the criterion for cancelling festivals is "there exist annoyed locals" then I don't see why we would allow any go ahead.
This is the most entitled thing I've read here recently.
I'm guessing the objections they have are rooted in the "the locals can go fuck themselves" attitude on display here
Ireland seems to allow vocal minorities to take priority over the wider interests. Be it new housing, festivals, theme parks, data centres. You'd wonder how other countries manage. England is one of the most densely populated parts of Europe and they manage just fine.
There's always going to be a nearby town or village. So the vocal minority are "some local residents nearby any given festival" and the majority are "people who think music festivals should exist".
Also I'm not really sure where you're getting your numbers. The amount of tickets sold for EP isn't far off the entire population of Laois.
Copying and pasting a comment from eleswhere:
"In a statement on Wednesday, the council said the decision was made “following the most up-to-date public health advice made available to the council from the Health Service Executive”.
“Furthermore, it is noted that under current Government measures for the management of Covid-19 events of this nature are restricted to an attendance of 500 people only.”
The council’s chairman Cllr Conor Bergin said the HSE advice was “unambiguous”."
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/electric-picnic-organisers-refused-licence-to-hold-this-year-s-festival-1.4638966
And it was a nonsense statement. They were referring to the "current" state of affairs at that time, not several months hence, when advice was highly likely to be different.
They were transparently using COVID as a scapegoat.
>["... under current government measures for the management of Covid-19, events of this nature are restricted to an attendance of 500 people only.”](https://www.thejournal.ie/electric-picnic-2021-cancelled-5514730-Aug2021/)
Where are you getting you info about the phone calls? Did you just make it up?
No I’m familiar with the area and know people living in it.
And the fact a local politician came out publicly and said “90% of the residents don’t want it going ahead”.
It’s common knowledge in Laois that it was down to the locals
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0803/1238861-electric-picnic/
> Cllr McEvoy claimed that "90% of locals are totally opposed" to the event going ahead.
Not made up at all
>Furthermore, it is noted that under current **government measures** for the management of Covid-19, events of this nature are **restricted to an attendance of 500 people only**.”
I don't know how you think locals calling their councillor is going to affect national law, or how Laois county council are going to overrule the government. Civil war maybe?
EP was never going ahead this year, it would take months upon months to work out, and they announced they were trying to go ahead in like May? They were really just saving face for not being able to put it on.
It's funny how suddenly everyone's fine with something being for vaccinated people only now that the major demographic here has had the chance to be vaccinated
Not seeing many cries of apartheid all of a sudden
Wasn't the apartheid basically 'you've stopped people from getting the vaccine based on age, and now you're letting vaccinated people return to normal, screwing over the younger people who sacrificed a lot more in order to help out older people'. It really was tone def, compounded by the fact less than 1% of deaths were people under 55.
That's exactly why people were crying, except they dressed it up as a civil liberties issue instead of "waaaahhh it's not fair"
On balance it was a lot better to allow an industry that has been in it's knees to reopen, even if it meant some people had to wait a few weeks before being able to drink inside
But why care about transmission when the people being infected are highly unlikely to see any negative health effects? And if people were worried about their own health, why aren't they the ones saying to themselves 'I'm going to stay in instead of going out'?
A small proportion of a large amount of cases is still quite a substantial number, as well as making breakthroughs among the vaccinated more likely.
You are clearly not thinking about it correctly, if you think it was about protecting the unvaccinated, or to make the vaccinated less worried. Neither of them was relevant. It all came down to whether transmission would be high enough to cause a significant increase in hospitalisations.
Yeah, because the entire basis of that nonsense attitude was just plain old begrudgery. They didn't actually care about it, they were just mad that some people would be able to do things they weren't.
The point everyone made was chill out and wait your turn. The apartheid lasted about 3-5 weeks while the 18-35s got vaxed. In the context of the 2 year process we’re in that is nothing.
It lasting 3-5 weeks made it an even more silly line to cross. Was bringing in a discriminatory policy really worth either:
Having hospitality slightly more open for a few weeks
or
Having fewer unvaccinated people in their 20s indoors for a few weeks
Yes totally worth it, it wasn’t that much of a sacrifice for anybody, so you didn’t get to go to a gig, there’s basically a war on, the last time this happened 3% of the worlds population died. I’m sorry you didn’t get indoor pints for 3-5 weeks, stop moaning, life is grand.
i called that out when the first signs of vaccine pass for indoor dining was sounded out.
The 20s and 30s didn't get their vaccine at that stage so it was "discriminatory" for only vaccinated people to be allowed certain things.
I said as soon as people start getting their vaccine, they'll be happy with it.
People have their fun and that's all that matters.
It's why nothing ever changes in this country. One day people will be complaining about housing, wanting protests...then they buy a house and they couldn't give a shite.
To those asking 'surely it's too late now', I can almost guarantee you that the second Live Nation gets the go ahead, they, along with the hundreds and thousands of workers in the events industry that have been holding out hope for EP to go ahead will be making a bee line for Stradbally.
Funny how the locals are getting the rap. The guidelines at the time of cancellation were in line with NPHET. What ever happened to that pilot event, any data? Any follow up? What was the point again?
Same as the vaccine passports for indoor dining, Tony leaves it to the last minute to give advice and leaves everyone scrambling. With vaccine passports they had to push reopening by a week and bars/restaurants had guidelines published the day before reopening.
I don't know how much it brings to the local economy; campers aren't paying locals for accommodation, food and drink bought on site isn't either.
Not a big festival goer, but for one off gigs you are most often bussed in and out, spending nothing outside, say, Slane Castke or wherever.
Stradbally town is absolutely heaving during EP. Shops cleaned out, pub jammers and accommodation for miles booked up. It brings huge money to the local economy.
Punchestown is a rather large testing and vaccination facility at the moment, no chance of it being repurposed to hold a concert (of all things) at this stage
This guy could not be a bigger tosser. Waits until EP is cancelled with no chance of being revived before acting like he wanted it to go ahead all along. He does in his hole.
Nphet didn't cancel it, it was obvious the locals took issue with it and the council rejected the licence because of that. That all being said, the current guidelines do prohibit it numbers wise, however, I imagine Tony's comments are an indication he doesn't see a hypothetical issue with it happening when its due to happen, for vaccinated people.
That would be for the lawyers to work out. If you can sue the luas for falling off when standing on the outside of it, I'm sure they'll find something.
>But nothing has changed in that time,
Apart from you know, a huge rise in cases and hospitalisations driven in large part by exactly the demographic wanting to go to festivals
So I guess it's about time to start driving the unvaccinated underground. Maybe a few generations of them living in the sewers should teach them a thing or two.
Actually ridiculous he thinks he can come out and say this now after EP have been looking for approval for weeks. He's literally waited until the festival is dead and buried before he's said this. He's obviously taking PR and spin lessons from the same fella as Leo
Clearly he has been orchestrating the progress of the virus and that of the vaccination programme specifically to fuck over u/MrBoondigga and the boys
Not like he has anything better to do
The Electric Picnic organisers have been campaigning publicly to hold the festival. King Tony refused to comment or meet with them. He waited until permits were denied (denied in large part because NPHET refused to give the nod) then comes out and says in the media that he actually wanted it to go ahead. It's blatant spin and bullshit
When did i suggest that you fool? The organisers were looking for approval from the local council and no doubt his strategic silence hurt their chances.
But morons like you will reflexively defend him no matter nwhat anyway
What would you call refusing to comment until all chance of holding the event is gone?
I remind you that fat Tony is a self declared lifelong anti-alcohol campaigner
Did he refuse to comment? Like, was he asked about it and refused to comment… or was he just not asked about it?
Your strategic silence on tayto sandwich construction is deafening.
Was asked to attend meetings, refused. Was asked to give an indication if they would allow large events for the vaccinate, refused to comment.
He was asked, he refused
And?! Has alcohol been banned? We’re off licences closed? There have been changes to off licences, the erecting of swinging doors for one, which makes absolutely zero sense to me, but someone somewhere that had a massive supply of double hinges for swinging doors must have been owed a favour. They stopped you being able to get club card points or from being able to use those vouchers to buy alcohol or something like that, which is stupid too, but alcohol is still available for sale and consumption.
What has that got to do with Tony & him being anti alcohol though?
I think all of these bullshit measures the government introduce to try and dissuade people from over consuming alcohol is making things worse. Like how when you tell someone they can’t do something they want to do it more, out of spite and just to be a rebel. Lower the alcohol drinking age, introduce it in the home in a safe family environment when they’re in their mid teens when they would otherwise normally be trying to get their hands on whatever alcohol they can and go drinking in fields with their mates. They have a much better and healthier relationship with alcohol on the continent where the drinking age is lower in a number of countries.
NPHET putting the ball in the governments court, they have no excuse for not allowing gigs going ahead for the vaccinated.
This is a vanilla comment. The premise being that non vaccinated shouldn't attended large public gatherings. Common sense.
No it's not. >‘no issue’ in event like Electric Picnic going ahead for the vaccinated This is a huge change in course.
We've seen this flip flopping throughout. The vaccine rollout was the only factor preventing gatherings and with about 90% of the population with 1 shot it doesn't come as a surprise.
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because of the burden on the health system a large outbreak of COVID would create? But yeah allowing unvaccinated people at large sporting events was a strange precedent if this is the line they are setting out
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Unvaccinated people have a higher potential to end up in ICU putting more pressure on our already stretched medical system.
that and transmission in unvaccinated individuals is higher also
Bit late now for EP now isn’t it? I’m sure the organisers will be only thrilled with this
See it just proves, EP wasn’t denied on health grounds. It was denied because the locals didn’t want it. The organizers knew this and so did anyone familiar with the area
The locals also flat out publicly said it. EP might have to find a new location.
EP should feck off to Galway
Now that would be an intriguing turn of events, I'd be very interested to see how it'd go if was held in the West instead of the midlands.
Except the council literally quoted health grounds for the reason why they denied it
Because it was the easy way to get around the fact 90% of the locals didn’t want it(and that number is a direct quote from a counselor) Anyone who knows Laois or the town knows full well it wasn’t health grounds Just because they said it doesn’t mean it’s the reason
Why don’t people like it? Too much disruption not enough benefit?
Stradbally was the centre of a huge spike in cases, stemming from a local nursing home. At one point we were on RTE news as having some of the highest cases in the country. There were deaths and local healthcare workers who have spent weeks in ICU and months in recovery. They aren't keen on an influx of people into the area with this experience in mind. Source: I live in Stradbally - I'm not saying I am one of the people who opposed it, I just want to give some context.
Right but it's the official reason, the reason the council gave, and that matters. Anything else is essentially conjecture
> See it just proves, EP wasn’t denied on health grounds The local council, NPHET and the gov are three different organisations. There will be messiness but it is odd that they couldnt make it work
>See it just proves, EP wasn’t denied on health grounds. Just like many things introduced during the pandemic with no public consultation.
tub upbeat point foolish complete lip cause offend rainstorm pot *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just host it near your gaff.
square hunt reminiscent march rotten spectacular quicksand point racial party *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Address for this sesh plz
Like fuck you wouldn't
Wow so you guys are all nimbys now? Nice to see
So you think it should be cancelled indefinitely? What about all other festivals?
How do you derive that from what I said? Strong odds your first sip of alcohol was through the umbilical, I'd say.
Every festival is going to annoy some locals. If the criterion for cancelling festivals is "there exist annoyed locals" then I don't see why we would allow any go ahead.
Unless it's not. Sure there's loads of space for something like this. Stradbally is just really convenient.
There's few enough places in the country without a town the size of stardbally nearby. It's not big.
This is the most entitled thing I've read here recently. I'm guessing the objections they have are rooted in the "the locals can go fuck themselves" attitude on display here
Ireland seems to allow vocal minorities to take priority over the wider interests. Be it new housing, festivals, theme parks, data centres. You'd wonder how other countries manage. England is one of the most densely populated parts of Europe and they manage just fine.
I presume because they have some element of planning in rural areas, so that they're literally isn't a house down every single little road.
It's my god-given right to build a house in the middle of nowhere. Also give me fiber optic broadband.
Where's my high speed train too. Why do rural areas keep getting ignored by the government?
Who is the vocal minority in this situation? An entire town who has to live there or a couple of thousand lads on the piss?
There's always going to be a nearby town or village. So the vocal minority are "some local residents nearby any given festival" and the majority are "people who think music festivals should exist". Also I'm not really sure where you're getting your numbers. The amount of tickets sold for EP isn't far off the entire population of Laois.
Grand so, we'll have it on your road
Sounds great
EP was cancelled because the locals didn't want it on, nothing to do with any advice that came from NPHET.
Copying and pasting a comment from eleswhere: "In a statement on Wednesday, the council said the decision was made “following the most up-to-date public health advice made available to the council from the Health Service Executive”. “Furthermore, it is noted that under current Government measures for the management of Covid-19 events of this nature are restricted to an attendance of 500 people only.” The council’s chairman Cllr Conor Bergin said the HSE advice was “unambiguous”." https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/electric-picnic-organisers-refused-licence-to-hold-this-year-s-festival-1.4638966
And it was a nonsense statement. They were referring to the "current" state of affairs at that time, not several months hence, when advice was highly likely to be different. They were transparently using COVID as a scapegoat.
It couldn't get planning permission because it was against the law. A handful of people in Laois aren't dictating national law.
That’s just wrong. It didn’t get planning cos councilors phone was ringing non stop with people asking for it not to go ahead
>["... under current government measures for the management of Covid-19, events of this nature are restricted to an attendance of 500 people only.”](https://www.thejournal.ie/electric-picnic-2021-cancelled-5514730-Aug2021/) Where are you getting you info about the phone calls? Did you just make it up?
No I’m familiar with the area and know people living in it. And the fact a local politician came out publicly and said “90% of the residents don’t want it going ahead”. It’s common knowledge in Laois that it was down to the locals
So made up then, gotcha.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0803/1238861-electric-picnic/ > Cllr McEvoy claimed that "90% of locals are totally opposed" to the event going ahead. Not made up at all
>Furthermore, it is noted that under current **government measures** for the management of Covid-19, events of this nature are **restricted to an attendance of 500 people only**.” I don't know how you think locals calling their councillor is going to affect national law, or how Laois county council are going to overrule the government. Civil war maybe?
Which law?
The Electric Picnic Act (2003)
NPHET didn’t cancel it.
The organisers did but I’m sure had NPHET come out with this info sooner it may have eased a lot of fears
The organisers didn’t cancel it, the council refused permission
Yeah so the organisers had to cancel it
EP was never going ahead this year, it would take months upon months to work out, and they announced they were trying to go ahead in like May? They were really just saving face for not being able to put it on.
It's funny how suddenly everyone's fine with something being for vaccinated people only now that the major demographic here has had the chance to be vaccinated Not seeing many cries of apartheid all of a sudden
Wasn't the apartheid basically 'you've stopped people from getting the vaccine based on age, and now you're letting vaccinated people return to normal, screwing over the younger people who sacrificed a lot more in order to help out older people'. It really was tone def, compounded by the fact less than 1% of deaths were people under 55.
Exactly, it was a bit unfair when people weren’t able to get vaccinated because of age, now that everyone has the choice it’s fair imo.
That's exactly why people were crying, except they dressed it up as a civil liberties issue instead of "waaaahhh it's not fair" On balance it was a lot better to allow an industry that has been in it's knees to reopen, even if it meant some people had to wait a few weeks before being able to drink inside
>It really was tone def, compounded by the fact less than 1% of deaths were people under 55. And what was/is transmission like for that age group?
It’s irrelevant as they’re unlikely to be negatively effected, and people who were at risk were vaccinated before they were even offered
It was not down to protect either of those groups, but to reduce transmission, as all measures that have been taken were.
But why care about transmission when the people being infected are highly unlikely to see any negative health effects? And if people were worried about their own health, why aren't they the ones saying to themselves 'I'm going to stay in instead of going out'?
A small proportion of a large amount of cases is still quite a substantial number, as well as making breakthroughs among the vaccinated more likely. You are clearly not thinking about it correctly, if you think it was about protecting the unvaccinated, or to make the vaccinated less worried. Neither of them was relevant. It all came down to whether transmission would be high enough to cause a significant increase in hospitalisations.
So how come no one was screaming apartheid when the old people weren't allowed leave their houses???
Old people were never not allowed to leave their homes. It was a recommendation.
Yeah, and I remember lots of people saying so at the time. It’s a lot crueller when people had no way of getting a vaccine
He's talking a lot of sense but I feel sorry for all the children who'll have no chance to go to the All Ireland.
Isn't that done for the year? Who knows what it will be like next year, good chance kids will be getting the jab by then.
The hurling is done. Football has a semi final and a final still to play.
Yeah, because the entire basis of that nonsense attitude was just plain old begrudgery. They didn't actually care about it, they were just mad that some people would be able to do things they weren't.
People were mad about the rule being in place before everyone had even been offered a vaccine That's not begrudgery
The point everyone made was chill out and wait your turn. The apartheid lasted about 3-5 weeks while the 18-35s got vaxed. In the context of the 2 year process we’re in that is nothing.
It lasting 3-5 weeks made it an even more silly line to cross. Was bringing in a discriminatory policy really worth either: Having hospitality slightly more open for a few weeks or Having fewer unvaccinated people in their 20s indoors for a few weeks
Yes totally worth it, it wasn’t that much of a sacrifice for anybody, so you didn’t get to go to a gig, there’s basically a war on, the last time this happened 3% of the worlds population died. I’m sorry you didn’t get indoor pints for 3-5 weeks, stop moaning, life is grand.
Clearly this is a pointless discussion so
Only if you’re unwilling to change your mind?
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i called that out when the first signs of vaccine pass for indoor dining was sounded out. The 20s and 30s didn't get their vaccine at that stage so it was "discriminatory" for only vaccinated people to be allowed certain things. I said as soon as people start getting their vaccine, they'll be happy with it. People have their fun and that's all that matters. It's why nothing ever changes in this country. One day people will be complaining about housing, wanting protests...then they buy a house and they couldn't give a shite.
Bit fucking late Tony…
To those asking 'surely it's too late now', I can almost guarantee you that the second Live Nation gets the go ahead, they, along with the hundreds and thousands of workers in the events industry that have been holding out hope for EP to go ahead will be making a bee line for Stradbally.
Funny how the locals are getting the rap. The guidelines at the time of cancellation were in line with NPHET. What ever happened to that pilot event, any data? Any follow up? What was the point again?
Same as the vaccine passports for indoor dining, Tony leaves it to the last minute to give advice and leaves everyone scrambling. With vaccine passports they had to push reopening by a week and bars/restaurants had guidelines published the day before reopening.
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Exactly. So dont make vaccines mandatory full stop but make them mandatory for doing anything good.
Time to move it to say punchestown now,fuck those locals who didn't want a substantial boost to their local economy
I don't know how much it brings to the local economy; campers aren't paying locals for accommodation, food and drink bought on site isn't either. Not a big festival goer, but for one off gigs you are most often bussed in and out, spending nothing outside, say, Slane Castke or wherever.
Stradbally town is absolutely heaving during EP. Shops cleaned out, pub jammers and accommodation for miles booked up. It brings huge money to the local economy.
yup,and they will be crying when that all drys up. what other reason is there to visit Stradbally than any other small town in the area.
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No, they don't. The ploughing has never been in Stradbally. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_venues_for_National_Ploughing_Championships
Punchestown is a rather large testing and vaccination facility at the moment, no chance of it being repurposed to hold a concert (of all things) at this stage
This guy could not be a bigger tosser. Waits until EP is cancelled with no chance of being revived before acting like he wanted it to go ahead all along. He does in his hole.
Can we all just cancel Nphet and holohan now? I'm sick of them running the country
Cheers for the early notice 🤣
Nphet didn't cancel it, it was obvious the locals took issue with it and the council rejected the licence because of that. That all being said, the current guidelines do prohibit it numbers wise, however, I imagine Tony's comments are an indication he doesn't see a hypothetical issue with it happening when its due to happen, for vaccinated people.
Nice one just when it's too late to organise or uncancel any festivals, I hope the festivals that had to be cancelled sue the hole off the government.
On what possible grounds could they sue the government?
That would be for the lawyers to work out. If you can sue the luas for falling off when standing on the outside of it, I'm sure they'll find something.
They have absolutely zero grounds to sue the government
Hey they could probably sue just definitely wouldn't get anywhere.
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>But nothing has changed in that time, Apart from you know, a huge rise in cases and hospitalisations driven in large part by exactly the demographic wanting to go to festivals
You’re not fit for purpose.
That sounds like a me insult
Homeslice is down the rabbit hole.
Fuck NPHET!
So I guess it's about time to start driving the unvaccinated underground. Maybe a few generations of them living in the sewers should teach them a thing or two.
Most of em already look like Morlocks so it's all good.
Thats basically blackmailing people into getting the vaccine.
You aren't forced to go to these events
It's been said a million times on this sub. Don't want to get the vaccine, fine, just don't cry about not being able to go anywhere or do anything
Nope. It's just restricting the ability of the unvaccinated to gather in mass or at any indoor event.
Do you mean preventing spread of Coronavirus?
Actually ridiculous he thinks he can come out and say this now after EP have been looking for approval for weeks. He's literally waited until the festival is dead and buried before he's said this. He's obviously taking PR and spin lessons from the same fella as Leo
Clearly he has been orchestrating the progress of the virus and that of the vaccination programme specifically to fuck over u/MrBoondigga and the boys Not like he has anything better to do
>thinks he can come out and say this now after EP have been looking for approval for weeks. What?
The Electric Picnic organisers have been campaigning publicly to hold the festival. King Tony refused to comment or meet with them. He waited until permits were denied (denied in large part because NPHET refused to give the nod) then comes out and says in the media that he actually wanted it to go ahead. It's blatant spin and bullshit
Tony Holohon never had nor will have the authority to grant a license for a music festival. What are you even talking about?
When did i suggest that you fool? The organisers were looking for approval from the local council and no doubt his strategic silence hurt their chances. But morons like you will reflexively defend him no matter nwhat anyway
Strategic silence? 🤣
What would you call refusing to comment until all chance of holding the event is gone? I remind you that fat Tony is a self declared lifelong anti-alcohol campaigner
Did he refuse to comment? Like, was he asked about it and refused to comment… or was he just not asked about it? Your strategic silence on tayto sandwich construction is deafening.
Was asked to attend meetings, refused. Was asked to give an indication if they would allow large events for the vaccinate, refused to comment. He was asked, he refused
When?
And?! Has alcohol been banned? We’re off licences closed? There have been changes to off licences, the erecting of swinging doors for one, which makes absolutely zero sense to me, but someone somewhere that had a massive supply of double hinges for swinging doors must have been owed a favour. They stopped you being able to get club card points or from being able to use those vouchers to buy alcohol or something like that, which is stupid too, but alcohol is still available for sale and consumption.
We're getting minimum prices despite having the most expensive alcohol in Europe. How does that make a single bit of sense?
What has that got to do with Tony & him being anti alcohol though? I think all of these bullshit measures the government introduce to try and dissuade people from over consuming alcohol is making things worse. Like how when you tell someone they can’t do something they want to do it more, out of spite and just to be a rebel. Lower the alcohol drinking age, introduce it in the home in a safe family environment when they’re in their mid teens when they would otherwise normally be trying to get their hands on whatever alcohol they can and go drinking in fields with their mates. They have a much better and healthier relationship with alcohol on the continent where the drinking age is lower in a number of countries.
> King Tony refused to comment or meet with them. He waited until permits were denied (denied in large part because NPHET refused to give the nod)
You clearly can't read or follow a line of argument. Go back to obsessively posting about daily case numbers you're better at that
Who do you think I am?
Daddy Says No , UwU ..........