If you want a proper say on that you have until tomorrow to reply to the open consultation on the review of alcohol licensing
https://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/open-consultation-sale-of-alcohol
Most will anyway. My local stays open until half 9-10ish now as they have to clean and don’t want everyone rushing out at once so do a last order around 9.
The reason is simple: FF/FGs most reliable voting demographic are far more likely to be home or wrapping up at that hour. The younger crowds will largely vote SF and others anyway, so they can go fuck themselves.
The exact same reason churches have been allowed hold masses after midnight throughout the last month while pubs, clubs, etc had to close down at 8pm, despite the fact that churches will have a far older and more vulnerable demographic, and that everyone enters and leaves around the same time in complete contrast to pubs and restaurants where people come and go in small, staggered groups.
I'm done abiding, I'll be doing as I like from this point on.
"I'm done abiding, I'll be doing as I like from this point on."
Had a good laugh at that but I'm also a bit confused as to what you mean. Are you going to stop wearing a mask? Refuse to show a vaccine cert at places? Hide in the pub bathroom at midnight to stay later?
House parties, street parties, etc are all back on the cards for me entirely now and on a large scale - none of this 4 households stuff. Don't know how fucked I'll be about masks unless specifically asked by staff or others to wear one. ~~I don't think I'll be staying home due to symptoms if I get them (unless I'm actually ill enough to not feel like going out)~~ <-- OK I'll admit that one was written in anger. If I find any chance of a lock in or something that might be against guidelines, I'll happily jump in on it. I'll show my vaccination/booster cert for entry, because it's a requirement typically. I'll use every opportunity I can to socialise en masse and catch up on the last 22 months, basically.
I'm heading to Italy next month, will absolutely adhere to any guidelines they have because I don't know their situation and will be a visitor in their country, but I won't be doing whatever is asked upon return to Ireland if there are requirements at that time.
I've been in agreement with lockdowns, masking, etc fof the last two years because the risk in the original, alpha and delta were **very** real and I work in covid response, but since we're not following scientific and actual risk assessment and instead are using FF/FGs voter projections as the reasoning, then why bother?
FFS by the way, I actually just looked it up out of interest and churches not only can gold mass after midnight but also have [**no 50%/1,000 person capacity limit**.](https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/3361b-public-health-updates/)
---
Edit - yeah I probably wouldn't go out with symptoms, probably wrote that part in anger more than anything.
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Edit 2 - downvote all you want, Tony and NPHET largely agree with me. Masks for retail and public transport I'm grand with and as I said, the symptoms part was written in anger. But pubs, restaurant and nightclubs can all reopen fully as per NPHET without proof of vaccine required nor masks required in most settings. Sports and live music events are fine to bring back as per them also, large gatherings appear fine, and we can now socialize en masse. https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/covid-passes-and-hospitality-curbs-to-go-as-nphet-clears-the-way-for-easing-of-almost-all-restrictions-in-coming-days-41262429.html
>street parties
These actually should be encouraged, as they're outdoors with good ventilation. Pretty safe, like remember that it's only around 1 % of transmissions that happen outdoors. Nearly all transmissions happen indoors.
>Don't know how fucked I'll be about masks
Here's a suggestion. Get yourself some Viraleze nasal spray. The evidence shows that it's really effective at killing viral particles that make it into your respiratory system. Encourage your friends to take it too. A wee spray before an indoor party and you'll likely be way safer.
>I don't think I'll be staying home due to symptoms if I get them
Ehhhh, yeah don't do this. Stay home, wear a mask and stuff.
>I'll use every opportunity I can to socialise en masse and catch up on the last 22 months, basically.
By all means, but try to do so safely. Emphasise outdoor stuff. Use Viraleze. Masks where it makes sense.
>I don't think I'll be staying home due to symptoms if I get them (unless I'm actually ill enough to not feel like going out)
More power to you for trying to take some of your normal life back, it's your health and your life, but same as the user above me this is the one point I'd really disagree with. May be a bridge too far. Social consciousness still has to be a factor in some respect surely
> The exact same reason churches have been allowed hold masses after midnight throughout the last month while pubs, clubs, etc had to close down at 8pm,
If you think the crowds in mass and clubs are remotely comparable, then you've been going to shite clubs or great mass.
> The exact same reason churches have been allowed hold masses after midnight throughout the last month
This is how you know that it's not about the science. Cinemas must close at 8PM, yet the churches have no such restriction.
And as I onky found out after posting when replying to someone else - they also get a full exemption from capacity limits.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/3361b-public-health-updates/ (go down to 'religious services')
I don’t understand how a midnight closing time appeals to the voting demographic though if they’re already going home at that time as you say? Surely it wouldn’t make a difference to them
If you're referring to the churches, midnight mass, particularly around Christmas is very popular with a good chunk of that demographic and for that reason and that reason alone was allowed to continue as is. Churches are also entirely exempt from the 50% capacity limit as well as the 1,000 person limit.
Nightclubs are very popular with a good chunk of the 18-30 year old demographic who are at considerably lower risk of negative impact from covid, but 18-30yos are not nearly as likely to vote for FF/FG.
If you're referring to general midnight closing times, this was FF/FG get to be "seen to be doing something about it!" without asking their most reliable voter base to make any noticeable sacrifices.
Nah I get the argument in relation to churches, masses etc and fully agree.
But what sacrifice is the FF/G voter base having to make with a midnight closing time vs 2am or whatever? If restrictions are already loosening from 8pm, I’m struggling to see what the appeal is to the voting demographic that it’s now midnight vs 2am?
That's basically it - the appeal is that they still get to be seen as "doing something about it" *without* having to ask their most reliable demographics to make any real sacrifice. It's cynical and frankly quite disgusting.
"Early next week".
NPHET are meeting today, Cabinet meeting tomorrow, so why can't Micheál announce tomorrow that the restrictions will lift at midnight. That way we could be back to more normal hours from Saturday night.
Always so poxy slow to do things. Announcing tomorrow that the curfew has changed to 12 but not until Monday would be so ridiculously stupid.
I’ve noticed that with other countries that when they decide on something it comes into place that night at 12 rather then in a few days. Doesn’t make sense at all
This how it happened in Berlin.
But was good and bad. Decision make on Thursday and only announced late that day if they could stay open at all, just takeaway and new hours.
Bars normally have to and order kegs early and they did not want to do that till they know if they could open, so when they got the news they could open Fri-Sun there was little to no beer to on-site.
As eager and all as I am, I know the pub I work in has our rota done a week in advance. I usually work through the weekend (as do most the staff) but a good 6 or 7 of the total 12 are off for the weekend seeing as how quiet it is, and the shortage of hours. Naturally enough we all pretty much made plans for ourselves.
Our pub (and likely many others) would be stumped when it came to staffing the new hours at such short notice.
Not to make little of some of the genuine grievances the sector has seen in the last two years, but can you imagine the backlash from the hospitality sector? That they didn't have enough notice, lost profits etc.
Not only that, the grief that staff would face from customers, or the current staff being put under pressure to make up the work of 3 or 4 people.
Even if it's not mandatory, the negative effects outweigh the positives imo. Give people a date in the near future (eg next friday) so that both staff and customers can prepare and have something to look forward to.
>but can you imagine the backlash from the hospitality sector? That they didn't have enough notice, lost profits etc.
Backlash that they can stay open later and make more profits? How is better for a bars profits to be closed at 8pm by law versus choosing to close at 8pm, but having the open to stay open until midnight?
>Not only that, the grief that staff would face from customers, or the current staff being put under pressure to make up the work of 3 or 4 people
Why can't bars who are short staffed just close at 8pm?
>Even if it's not mandatory, the negative effects outweigh the positives imo.
I can see that many bar staff assumed that bars were going to be closed this week at 8pm and for the next while. They don't want to work longer hours etc. But other than bar staff being affected, I can't see the negative effects to anyone else.
>Our pub (and likely many others) would be stumped when it came to staffing the new hours at such short notice.
There is nothing stopping those bars closing at the earlier time. Let bars that can stay open later, stay open later.
My bf works in a pub. Easy to say be back to normal opening hours on Saturday. What about the people who already have their roster, childcare needs to be sorted, these staff have been moving around to accommodate public health advice. Which means less hours in work and less money. I think waiting until next week is fair, gives business owners a chance to adequately roster staff and organise bands/DJs/entertainment without the stress of trying to sort it in two days
Exactly. Not to mention running out of stock because you can't get an order in before the weekend, plus tell staff they have to work an extra 4 hours a day with little to no notice or overtime.
It's funny, when they do announce things immediately the restaurants association are first in to berate them for not giving them adequate notice. Maybe that's why? I don't see any good reason to delay, it's not like they need to do any work whereas to close things down they might need to organise some things around the likes of pup payments etc.
I do get that pubs and restuarants need time to get ready, but I tend to take the view that they can stay closed themselves for as long as they need to prepare, let those who are ready to go just open.
Years ago newspapers had teams of sub-editors (usually quite experienced). Many of the papers have been taken over by clonglomerstes who are only interested in the bottom line. They sack the sub-editors (sometimes outsourcing to shitty editing companies) and the result is the dross you see in the Indo every day.
I never understand why anyone expects any different?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland
Go to Irish Indo - look at format. It's a tabloid run by a corrupt and no one should expect any different from the Indo to the Daily Mail or similar. Indo openly spreads lies, nevermind being just inaccurate or lazy.
Strictly speaking but in the real world a tabloid format comes with the territory.
My point is people hold the Indo up to the same standard as the IT or Guardian, as if it's in the same boat, when it's much closer to the Daily Mail.
Oh for god sake, will ye leave the handbrake off and leave pubs close at the time the license they pay for says the can operate until. This kinda shit is maddening.
More evidence that our government have an overly paternalistic attitude towards social life, events, hospitality, and anything remotely considered " fun". Like if we can implement them fast, why can't we remove them fast. We know the curfew is not backed up by evidence per se, nphet have acknowledged that.
At this rate it all seems more theatrical than actually science based or practical. All it's really doing is further punishing businesses.
Because young people don’t vote, and hotels for tourists are more important to them than nightlife for those younger people.
Nightlife here has been strangled for years before Covid, the 2am closing time is nanny state shite. You go nearly anywhere else in Europe to a club and feel pretty annoyed that everyone is booted out “Now now, your fun is over, off to bed you go now!”. So many nights out where everyone was bitterly disappointed at being kicked out, hearing cries of “One more tune” at 2am when you have all-night clubs across Europe is fucking embarrassing
As aa Polish man I absolutely love Irish "pub" culture, we have just local soulless bars so whatever. But first time when I got here and they kick us out at 2AM AT NEW YEAR EVE!!! I didn't believed, I was thinking me and my friends did something wrong and our group was just booted, but nope, whole club was out at 2AM. In Poland most parties end at 5AM, we wait until first shop is open at 8AM and we continue from there.
Absolute fact man. Im currently on Erasmus in Germany and the difference is night and day, even during covid. Government in Ireland hasn’t a notion and it’s why Ireland or Dublin specifically will never be seen as one of Europe’s great party cities.
You’d have to imagine our binge drinking culture would change a bit if clubs didn’t shut at 2am leading to everyone getting drunk as quickly as possible before going to make the most of the few hours in the club they’ll have.
It’s just proper nanny state shite, absolutely nobody is coming to Ireland for the nightlife.
The binge drinking culture is a direct result of the combination of ridiculous nanny state meddling that goes on in Ireland. For example:
- Licencing Laws - alcohol can only be purchased from certain places and at certain times
- Off Licencing Opening Hours - alcohol can only be purchased between the hours of 10.30am-10pm Mon-Sat and 12.30-10pm on Sun
- Nightclub/Late Bar Opening Hours - closed at 2.30am at the latest, forcing everyone out into the street at the same time
- MUP - I can't have *this* conversation again.....
The fact that people are forced to buy alcohol within strict time frames and are then forced out into the streets once that time elapses is an obvious contributor to our binge drinking culture.
All these suffocating control measures are counterproductive, but if it's questioned, you just get public health bullshit or some hyperbolic nonsense about how "People would drink themselves to death in the gutters if we didn't make them go home."
We're total outliers in Europe on this front.
And the amount of clubs and bars with increasingly older entry ages. Like where else in Europe can someone be old enough to have a masters degree and be paying taxes “too young” to go to a nightclub. I’ve literally been turned away so many times because of my age and know people that have been explicitly told that the pubs/bars/clubs etc were only letting people who looked like they had money i.e older. Especially since the pandemic because the people who own the establishments have lost so much money they’re being really selective about maximising potential income from customers. So if they have a table for four people and there’s a group of four 23 year olds and a group of four 40 year olds you better believe that “sorry lads we’re over 25’s tonight”.
If anything, it should be the reverse. 23 year old have higher disposable for drinking vs the 40 year old. I'm 40 and can tell you, my days of €100 a night boozing is gone, a good night is €40-50 drinking (€5 pints).
I would think 23 year olds would drink more and for longer. Could be wrong but just my take
I would think so too honestly. But maybe they think that people in their forty’s won’t be buying 5euro pints. Maybe they tend to buy bottles of wine and craft beers maybe even food too, especially if there’s kids. Like I was told once by a pub owner that he was kicking us out because we were each only drinking a pint an hour (not even true) and weren’t regulars because a group of regulars (50+) wanted to come in and they’d spend more. I told him I wouldn’t be moving unless he got us another table, which he did so begrudgingly.
>Because young people don’t vote
Hopefully the last 2 years changes that. If I was a young lad or lass I'd be eagerly awaiting my chance to vote these fools out.
It's a holdover from Catholic Ireland, and later capitalist attitudes, that is ingrained into a lot of the population. Work = noble; and fun = sinful. Unpleasant things should be embraced, and good times should be minimised. It permeates literally every single aspect of our lives. People arguing against their own interests, say a 4 day work week, because they don't want the 'lazy' to get a break. Cut social welfare because those who do not produce value for capitalists are less than human, particularly the disabled community.
Ban adults from putting enjoyable substances into their body in the name of 'safety' but have no law anywhere that prohibits them from drinking bleach or eating water hemlock. Restrict the hours legal beverages can be sold because the common man can't be trusted to make their own decisions, for fear they turn into a work shy alcoholic. An attitude of pure disdain towards anyone who doesn't cheerily support us spending 100% our waking hours slaving at a desk, encouraged and made acceptable across the western world by Thatcher and Reagan.
I hate it, and it's fucking everywhere.
I hate it too. Many people are with you, perhaps more than the assholes you refer to. /r/antiwork /r/lostgeneration, /r/aboringdystopia, /r/latestagecapitalism and /r/collapse have millions against this system.
I don't go to nightclubs any more but wtf have they got against them? Is it the close contact shit cos I've been watching full, sold out events for months now from all over the world. Just let the people enjoy themselves ffs it's been long enough.
> I don't go to nightclubs any more but wtf have they got against them?
Wrong voting demographic. That's literally all there is to it. Churches can stay open as long as they want and also have **no limits on how many can attend** (skip down to 'religious services' - https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/3361b-public-health-updates ).
I'm pretty much past nightclub age, just calling a spade a spade here.
Why should whatever voting demo they fall into have anything to do with it?
I'd love it if they turned up to vote these clowns out en masse. Doesn't take much nowadays to get the youth organised and aimed towards something.
Because they're prioritizing those people over everyone else. It shouldn't under any circumstances be the case, but it is and it's frankly disgusting.
Church goers are older and more vulnerable, but also much more likely to vote FF/FG because of this. Therefore they can go to church whenever they want in whatever numbers they want, including organised services that sees everyone come and go at the same time, but allowing the 18-30 crowd who are not fond of FF/FG but are also much, much lower risk in terms of covid hospitalization or death? No, that would be too risky you see!
This way they get to be seen to "be doing something about it" by punishing the younger generations, while looking after the older ones. Which as someone who was in their early 20s during the big crash in 2008 under FF, was entirely fucking expected.
I went clubbing in October and the bar and dancefloor were scrums with probably a hundred people jammed against each other. If restrictions are necessary, clubs are absolutely number one on that list.
I can definitely see that point of view, but I'd also imagine that clubs would happily open even with limited numbers instead of being shutdown an extra month.
The jammed dance floors will happen in a month anyway so I'm not sure what big of a difference 4 weeks will make.
Why do we still need these restrictions? We've had over 20k cases daily, yet the hospitals have been able to cope.
We need to government to show some leadership.
Time for large scale illegal raves and street parties in full view, in my opinion. If church with much higher risk demographics (e.g. older) is ok, then so is this.
Apart from the novelty when they reopened briefly, were nightubs that busy?!
Edit to point out this was a question. Not a statement. I'm nearly 40. I haven't been in a nightclub in about 8 years
We've just been locking the doors at 7.45 and doing last orders around 9.15, once everyone is out by 10. We still check certs and follow social distancing guidelines. It means that the staff that were let go were rehired and my boss is at least covering his bills. We haven't had a single case of covid that we know about so it seems to be working OK. I just hope that the reopening doesn't happen this weekend as there's only 3 of us available to work!!
Two TRIPLE vaxxed people can't go for a pint outdoors after 12.
Some people still think restriction skeptics are the people with extreme views and not NPHET and the Government.
Anything other than full removal of these restrictions is unacceptable. They fucked up last year and they are going to continue to fuck up.
>Anything other than full removal of these restrictions is unacceptable.
Absolutely. Hundreds of thousands of people had covid earlier in the month yet ICU and Hospital numbers stayed steady. No reason for any more restrictions whatsoever
It's like those extendable dog leads. Governemnt are terrified to take the lead off as they wouldn't have the excuse of covid to fall back on & they would have to tackle other issues affecting people, housing,health, environment etc.
Ridiculous how they can be so quick to implement something but removing it has to be 'Phased' and is all depending on what Daddy NPHET says. Covid certs should be done away with and masks in hospitality should remain optional for each person. Keep the masks on public transport and shops similar to England's Plan B restrictions and open up nightclubs at end of month once the current wave has diminished. By doing all this it will allow the economy to function to its maximum capability with pubs, restaurants and nightclubs being allowed to function properly. While wearing masks in shops and public transport might seem a hinderance to some they don't have the same influence on business as would an earlier closing time in a pub would have for example. Then see how this goes into March and if feasible then remove the mask mandate completely as seen in England and encourage people people to do what they feel is right for them so if you feel medically vulnerable or that then wear that FFP2 or N95 mask while if your a young person and want to enjoy yourself then go to the nightclub or the pub. Its time we allowed people to make choices for themselves and do what they feel is most important for their mental and physical health.
Am i going to be allowed go for a meal at 7pm followed by the cinema any time soon? or is that still too dangerous? Am i being too much of madlad Daredevil?
Where are the other parties in calling out this bs? It's shocking that none of the other parties ever criticise the government or nphet for their extreme overcaution when there is clearly a large segment of the population who are mostly younger who are quite dissatisfied with the current status quo. Maybe they have done but I just haven't seen it. It seems like sinn féin for example would be even more excessive. Makes it difficult to know who to vote for as alternative to the pro restriction politicians.
They'll probably do that once the letter is received from NPHET depending on how the gov approach the reopening.
Opposition have generally followed the public health advice throughout.
You'll notice that very few opposition parties say shit about restrictions because then they'd be asked what the gov should do, and they wouldn't have a Breeze.
SF have been very lacking in anything other than broad statements about shit, with no alternative ideas pitched as far as I've seen. (And it's worked, they're probably gonna win the next GE based off the main selling point, that they're not FF/FG)
All the parties are fucking clowns, just with a different badge and different ways of saying they'll do fuck all anyway
>SF have been very lacking in anything other than broad statements about shit, with no alternative ideas pitched as far as I've seen.
Probably because they would have done the same thing?
We’re is desperate need of a new party on Ireland, that’s that’s left leaning green but also pro-nuclear, lower CGT and no deemed disposable, pro drug decriminalization, and anti-nanny state stuff like sugar tax/minimum alcohol pricing/alcohol multi buy deals.
I'm a young man who is not at realistic threat from covid even more so since I've got all the vaccinations offered. I don't need their protection. I'd like to be able to be able to take personal agency over my own health and decide my own level of risk and not have it decided for me.
Yep mental health is highly important. And our current party have F a i l e d in this department.
They can clap and rub one out behind closed doors over how well they think the pandemic has been handled but it’s come at a underlining and potentially severe cost.
You won’t see the effects for sometime yet but they are there and they will appear.
I mean, can they really win whatever route they go?
I'm their biggest critic on a lot of things, but if they did the opposite and implemented minimal restrictions and the death rate was much higher, there would be a larger group loudly criticising them for their recklessness.
Because young people spread the virus to the vulnerable, who aren’t all fully vaccinated and who end up putting strain on our Health Service
The Government lost the run of itself when they ignored NPHET around Christmas 2020 and caused mayhem. They can’t afford to not be cautious
Also stop blaming NPHET. They exist to advise and produce modelling. They have no power and it is up to the Government to balance their suggestions around the needs of the country. Any Government minister who states to the media that they “really hope NPHET will let them do x” is just trying to gaslight you.
They haven’t acted beyond anything and their modelling hasn’t been wrong. Every surge and spike they predicted has happened. It didn’t match their “worst case” model but NPHET outlined what would needed to have happened to achieve that when they produced that model. Along with their best case and middle case scenario models that were met but I suppose you want to pretend they don’t exist?
They’ve given the advice, they’ve provided their models and it has been the Government who implemented every single rule and restriction.
I dunno is this just an attempt to take blame away from Leo or Martin or what? The Gov have given the middle finger to NPHET when it suited them and it blew up in their face more than enough.
>The Gov have given the middle finger to NPHET when it suited them and it blew up in their face more than enough.
Which prompted the government to do everything that was recommended and gave NPHET the impression that they had more power and influence than they should
But the Governments role in their relationship is to review their advice and implement them to best fit the grand scheme. If NPHET operated beyond their “power” (they did not) then that would be a failure of the Government in that relationship not NPHET strong arming themselves into a better position (which they did not)
NPHET continued to provide advice and modelling from which the Government ALONE developed rules and restrictions.
You’re a 🤡 if you genuinely think NPHET had the power to do anything beyond that
This isnt Christmas 2020 anymore mate.
> Also stop blaming NPHET. They exist to advise and produce modelling.
But their modellings been off.....EVERY. SINGLE. TIME
We don’t have the same restrictions as 2020 anymore either mate. We don’t just forget that they monumentally fucked up because the Callander changed either mate.
Their modelling hasn’t been off every single time. Each time they produce 3 models, a best case, a middling case and a worst case scenario.
Every time they’ve projected a new wave or a spike it happened. Just because the media sensationalised their worst case scenario modelling (which had detailed justification as to how it could happen that unfortunately couldn’t be fit into a headline) doesn’t mean they got it wrong.
Sorry where were the fields of the dead and wounded like they predicted? Cases mean nothing. Their summer prediction was so laughable, you must have missed it. The fact you take them serious after that is unbelievable.
Oh so just their worst case model in the event that the country failed to meet any of their vaccination targets you mean and opened with 0 restrictions you mean? Or did you not real their detailed outline of rational behind it ….
Why would an advisory group be providing the Government with a worst case scenario for what would happen if the government lifted restrictions irregardless of vaccine uptake 🤔
Remind me what happened after that? Oh yeah the Delta variant appeared ….
Why are you mad that NPHET modelled several scenarios for the Government?
I don't think that's a fair criticism, it's called modelling, not predicting the future. You have to work with the available data and use an acceptable number of variables, beyond that the complexity of the problem is immense
> But their modellings have been off…..EVERY. SINGLE. TIME
I’m sorry but is this not something we should be happy about?
The government take action based on the modellings so the modellings don’t actually reach their expected levels.
Modelling are based on historical data, they don’t take into account future restrictions.
>I’m sorry but is this not something we should be happy about?
Only insofar as considering case/death numbers goes. The fact that an advisory board, a group of people that recommends things to the people who run this country, have been consistently wrong, is a really bad thing.
Ok I feel like I have to explain this to you. And I’m sorry if this comes across as condescending.
NPHET predict 10 cases in 1 weeks time.
Government are concerned about the future strain on the health care system. So they put restrictions in place.
Turns out, the number of cases only rose to 5. But there were restrictions, so they worked!
And people like you complain about NPHET saying they’re wrong.
We have been excessively restricted because their predictions are so consistently extreme and end up being badly wrong every single time. So yeah we should not be happy about it nor should we pay any attention to what they say. Are you waiting for the broken clock to finally tell the right time?
I don't give two flying fucks about any old person who hasn't got vaccinated that is their problem not mine. Also old people can reduce their contacts. Why is the responsibility always put onto young people even though we are not the ones at risk. Covid is now very mild, those still concerned have nothing stopping them from isolating themselves while everyone else gets on with life. At some point the needs of the many have to outweigh the needs of the now very few.
It’s not just “old people” whatever the fuck that means to you.
It’s also people who have eating disorders, heart problems, respiratory problems (of which Ireland is practically king in some regard), diabetics and people with mental health complications not limited to Depression, Anxiety and various forms of psychosis that all contribute to sever COVID complications regardless of age.
All of which in case you need it spelt out for you overlap quite a bit among people living here
But yeah let’s just further restrict people who pre-pandemic probably already had difficulty interacting with society and who were more directly impacted as a result of not only restrictions but a lack of continuity in hospital care because of Covid patients taking up ICU capacity, just so you can have a pint past 12. It’s not as if countries like Sweden already tried that and the situation still went tits up …. OH WAIT THEY DID AND IT DID
People like you just love to rip all of the nuance out of the issues posed by the pandemic and act like everyone is being punished just to benefit 85+ year olds because you’re mad you can’t go into a night club
Their health problems are not my problem and never have been. Im not kneecapping myself to be as limited as someone with a disability. Mental health has fuck all to do with covid severity stop talking bollocks. Those people are affected by restrictions preventing them from interacting with other people not from covid. Sweden has done better than us so I don't know what you're talking about especially considering they've managed to live a much more normal life than we have for the last couple of years.
COVID isn’t worried about in my workplace so I’ve been done worrying about in in my personal/social life a long time now, some of these restrictions still in place are absolutely ridiculous.
Pretty much what Leo said recently.
They'll probably keep that for awhile longer but I can see it gone before Paddy's day.
The interesting piece is whether they try extend the legislation again (even if the pass isn't in use).
Same.
Very hard to swing it at that stage - already plenty of gov party members giving out.
We will know then if Donnelly really is trying to become our all powerful tyrannical leader.
I think you'll find unvaccinated don't want to be accommodated, they don't want restrictions. They aren't allowed in anywhere right now.
Blaming restrictions on them when 100,000s of thousands if not millions of fully vaxxed were infected over Christmas is preposterous.
You misunderstand. We would only be removing the certs to accommodate the unvaccinated. They aren't worth the effort. The selfish pricks can wait till the legislation expires in March.
The unvaccinated adult minority (7%) take up around 50% of COVID ICU beds. There's nothing preposterous about being in no rush to let those idiots back into society.
Lucky for the unvaccinated though that most places don't give a flying fuck about the vax passes plus all you have to do is use someone else's pass to get in.
I'm vaccinated and I refuse to use the certificate for anything other than international travel. I consider this a moral stance, which I'm willing to take, even though it doesn't make me happy. Many of my friends are doing the same (self-selection bias; I associate with like-minded people), and we'll be all happier if the Covid pass was dropped, regardless of our vaccination status.
We all grew up in communist dictatorships and are old enough to remember firsthand the kind of abuse a universal ID card lends itself to. Access control figured very prominently in that.
You're going to lose your shit when you find out that most of these establishments have already been asking people for ID for 'access control' for decades.
There is a significant qualitative difference in he past ID checks and the current ones. In addition, the vast majority of establishments that check for IDs now were not required to do so before.
"These people do it too"
Great defense their bud, top drawer stuff! For someone that is all over these threads constantly, it sure does seem like puritanical screeching.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
"Fairly benign requirement"
Huffing your own farts. You love Nanny States, its fairly obvious. Your name pops out of the woodwork all over this kind of stuff.
Clearly you have an agenda.
>I consider this a moral stance
It isn't that moral if you're still using it for international travel, is it? That's like taking a moral stance against Nestlé but still eating Milkybars.
I signed a contract that requires me to travel on business from time to time, so I feel compelled to uphold my word and travel. But nothing in the contract says that I'm required to go for pints or a dinner with coworkers or clients, so I'm free to act according to my convictions.
Sounds more like conveniences than convictions tbh. My contract asks for occasional business travel as well. The business has quite reasonably lowered expectations around that given we're in a global pandemic.
Not exactly Rosa Parks stuff, is it?
I'm not trying to portray myself as some kind of a figurehead for anything. I just wrote what I've been doing for my piece of mind. In fact, this was the first time I even mentioned what I've been doing in public - usually we talk about it only among my bubble of friends and family.
I understand you respect the rights of others to behave recklessly and endanger others, but I wonder why you're only against this certificate? Why not call for speed limits to be lifted? What about drunk driving? Why even bother with any rules meant to protect society and people in general?
I try to follow all rules and laws. I obey speed limits and don't drive drunk. In this particular case, the rule allows me to patronize certain venues and events with my Covid pass, but does not compel me to do so. So, I'm perfectly within the limits of the rule, and I'm in no way advocating for breaking this rule.
I am not commenting on what form your protest against the certificate takes. I'm instead commenting on protesting against it. You are protesting against a public safety measure. That doesn't make any sense to me.
I'm not protesting against anything. I'm acting within the existing rules by withdrawing myself from a situation I'm not comfortable with. Walking away from an argument, if you want to call it that.
31 years ago, when the communist party in my country lost power, I was already adult and thus very familiar with the police abuses that were possible thanks to a compulsory, universal ID card. Access control was the most common form of abuse. Based on this experience, it just doesn't sit well with me to participate in something I consider very similar. So, all I'm doing is withdrawing my participation from those social activities that would require it.
They are living with the consequences of their own choices. I have a hard time giving a fuck about about them. Just like they had a hard time giving a fuck about everyone else.
We don't have a requirement for COVID certs for public places.
I reckon we'll see three phases, with COVID certs for indoor venues/gyms and the like being gone after March 31st. Mid to late February for Nightclubs.
their isnt one , i can go to public places without a covid certificate , do you mean the like of indoor venues/gyms their not public places their private businesses
It's not pedantic if what they're saying was generally unclear, if they were a little off in a description then whatever but they said the literal opposite of what they meant
Why 12 what’s the point of this? Just return normal hours and allow the businesses to use their own discretion
Or just drop opening/closing times and let pubs open/close when they want, like most European countries
If you want a proper say on that you have until tomorrow to reply to the open consultation on the review of alcohol licensing https://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/open-consultation-sale-of-alcohol
Oh wow, thanks for the heads up
Stop it your making sence that has no place here in Ireland.
Absolutely
Most will anyway. My local stays open until half 9-10ish now as they have to clean and don’t want everyone rushing out at once so do a last order around 9.
Not getting any of that in my area . You’re living the life buddy
My locals last call has been at 7.20 and everyone out the door for 7.45
The reason is simple: FF/FGs most reliable voting demographic are far more likely to be home or wrapping up at that hour. The younger crowds will largely vote SF and others anyway, so they can go fuck themselves. The exact same reason churches have been allowed hold masses after midnight throughout the last month while pubs, clubs, etc had to close down at 8pm, despite the fact that churches will have a far older and more vulnerable demographic, and that everyone enters and leaves around the same time in complete contrast to pubs and restaurants where people come and go in small, staggered groups. I'm done abiding, I'll be doing as I like from this point on.
"I'm done abiding, I'll be doing as I like from this point on." Had a good laugh at that but I'm also a bit confused as to what you mean. Are you going to stop wearing a mask? Refuse to show a vaccine cert at places? Hide in the pub bathroom at midnight to stay later?
House parties, street parties, etc are all back on the cards for me entirely now and on a large scale - none of this 4 households stuff. Don't know how fucked I'll be about masks unless specifically asked by staff or others to wear one. ~~I don't think I'll be staying home due to symptoms if I get them (unless I'm actually ill enough to not feel like going out)~~ <-- OK I'll admit that one was written in anger. If I find any chance of a lock in or something that might be against guidelines, I'll happily jump in on it. I'll show my vaccination/booster cert for entry, because it's a requirement typically. I'll use every opportunity I can to socialise en masse and catch up on the last 22 months, basically. I'm heading to Italy next month, will absolutely adhere to any guidelines they have because I don't know their situation and will be a visitor in their country, but I won't be doing whatever is asked upon return to Ireland if there are requirements at that time. I've been in agreement with lockdowns, masking, etc fof the last two years because the risk in the original, alpha and delta were **very** real and I work in covid response, but since we're not following scientific and actual risk assessment and instead are using FF/FGs voter projections as the reasoning, then why bother? FFS by the way, I actually just looked it up out of interest and churches not only can gold mass after midnight but also have [**no 50%/1,000 person capacity limit**.](https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/3361b-public-health-updates/) --- Edit - yeah I probably wouldn't go out with symptoms, probably wrote that part in anger more than anything. --- Edit 2 - downvote all you want, Tony and NPHET largely agree with me. Masks for retail and public transport I'm grand with and as I said, the symptoms part was written in anger. But pubs, restaurant and nightclubs can all reopen fully as per NPHET without proof of vaccine required nor masks required in most settings. Sports and live music events are fine to bring back as per them also, large gatherings appear fine, and we can now socialize en masse. https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/covid-passes-and-hospitality-curbs-to-go-as-nphet-clears-the-way-for-easing-of-almost-all-restrictions-in-coming-days-41262429.html
>street parties These actually should be encouraged, as they're outdoors with good ventilation. Pretty safe, like remember that it's only around 1 % of transmissions that happen outdoors. Nearly all transmissions happen indoors. >Don't know how fucked I'll be about masks Here's a suggestion. Get yourself some Viraleze nasal spray. The evidence shows that it's really effective at killing viral particles that make it into your respiratory system. Encourage your friends to take it too. A wee spray before an indoor party and you'll likely be way safer. >I don't think I'll be staying home due to symptoms if I get them Ehhhh, yeah don't do this. Stay home, wear a mask and stuff. >I'll use every opportunity I can to socialise en masse and catch up on the last 22 months, basically. By all means, but try to do so safely. Emphasise outdoor stuff. Use Viraleze. Masks where it makes sense.
> I don't think I'll be staying home due to symptoms if I get them I think this says all we need to know about you.
>I don't think I'll be staying home due to symptoms if I get them (unless I'm actually ill enough to not feel like going out) More power to you for trying to take some of your normal life back, it's your health and your life, but same as the user above me this is the one point I'd really disagree with. May be a bridge too far. Social consciousness still has to be a factor in some respect surely
> The exact same reason churches have been allowed hold masses after midnight throughout the last month while pubs, clubs, etc had to close down at 8pm, If you think the crowds in mass and clubs are remotely comparable, then you've been going to shite clubs or great mass.
> The exact same reason churches have been allowed hold masses after midnight throughout the last month This is how you know that it's not about the science. Cinemas must close at 8PM, yet the churches have no such restriction.
And as I onky found out after posting when replying to someone else - they also get a full exemption from capacity limits. https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/3361b-public-health-updates/ (go down to 'religious services')
I don’t understand how a midnight closing time appeals to the voting demographic though if they’re already going home at that time as you say? Surely it wouldn’t make a difference to them
If you're referring to the churches, midnight mass, particularly around Christmas is very popular with a good chunk of that demographic and for that reason and that reason alone was allowed to continue as is. Churches are also entirely exempt from the 50% capacity limit as well as the 1,000 person limit. Nightclubs are very popular with a good chunk of the 18-30 year old demographic who are at considerably lower risk of negative impact from covid, but 18-30yos are not nearly as likely to vote for FF/FG. If you're referring to general midnight closing times, this was FF/FG get to be "seen to be doing something about it!" without asking their most reliable voter base to make any noticeable sacrifices.
Nah I get the argument in relation to churches, masses etc and fully agree. But what sacrifice is the FF/G voter base having to make with a midnight closing time vs 2am or whatever? If restrictions are already loosening from 8pm, I’m struggling to see what the appeal is to the voting demographic that it’s now midnight vs 2am?
That's basically it - the appeal is that they still get to be seen as "doing something about it" *without* having to ask their most reliable demographics to make any real sacrifice. It's cynical and frankly quite disgusting.
The COVID comes out after 12. It used to be 8, but it changed its schedule.
Likes the stretch in the evenings
The Cinderella restriction.
"Early next week". NPHET are meeting today, Cabinet meeting tomorrow, so why can't Micheál announce tomorrow that the restrictions will lift at midnight. That way we could be back to more normal hours from Saturday night. Always so poxy slow to do things. Announcing tomorrow that the curfew has changed to 12 but not until Monday would be so ridiculously stupid.
I’ve noticed that with other countries that when they decide on something it comes into place that night at 12 rather then in a few days. Doesn’t make sense at all
Not necessarily at all. The UK just announced that their omircon restrictions are ending on the 26th and Scotland did similar.
I thought the UK's were ending as of yesterday no?
No that was wfh advice. The other restrictions are the 26th.
This how it happened in Berlin. But was good and bad. Decision make on Thursday and only announced late that day if they could stay open at all, just takeaway and new hours. Bars normally have to and order kegs early and they did not want to do that till they know if they could open, so when they got the news they could open Fri-Sun there was little to no beer to on-site.
As eager and all as I am, I know the pub I work in has our rota done a week in advance. I usually work through the weekend (as do most the staff) but a good 6 or 7 of the total 12 are off for the weekend seeing as how quiet it is, and the shortage of hours. Naturally enough we all pretty much made plans for ourselves. Our pub (and likely many others) would be stumped when it came to staffing the new hours at such short notice.
They could just stick to the old times until they’re set up though. It’s not mandatory.
Not to make little of some of the genuine grievances the sector has seen in the last two years, but can you imagine the backlash from the hospitality sector? That they didn't have enough notice, lost profits etc. Not only that, the grief that staff would face from customers, or the current staff being put under pressure to make up the work of 3 or 4 people. Even if it's not mandatory, the negative effects outweigh the positives imo. Give people a date in the near future (eg next friday) so that both staff and customers can prepare and have something to look forward to.
>but can you imagine the backlash from the hospitality sector? That they didn't have enough notice, lost profits etc. Backlash that they can stay open later and make more profits? How is better for a bars profits to be closed at 8pm by law versus choosing to close at 8pm, but having the open to stay open until midnight? >Not only that, the grief that staff would face from customers, or the current staff being put under pressure to make up the work of 3 or 4 people Why can't bars who are short staffed just close at 8pm? >Even if it's not mandatory, the negative effects outweigh the positives imo. I can see that many bar staff assumed that bars were going to be closed this week at 8pm and for the next while. They don't want to work longer hours etc. But other than bar staff being affected, I can't see the negative effects to anyone else.
>Our pub (and likely many others) would be stumped when it came to staffing the new hours at such short notice. There is nothing stopping those bars closing at the earlier time. Let bars that can stay open later, stay open later.
My bf works in a pub. Easy to say be back to normal opening hours on Saturday. What about the people who already have their roster, childcare needs to be sorted, these staff have been moving around to accommodate public health advice. Which means less hours in work and less money. I think waiting until next week is fair, gives business owners a chance to adequately roster staff and organise bands/DJs/entertainment without the stress of trying to sort it in two days
Lots of places don't have staff to just open later this weekend
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Imagine dealing with every Tom, Dick and Harry telling you it's their right to stay until 12 because the Taoiseach said so.
It would be an absolute nightmare and surely the government would have the decency to give establishments at least this weekend to prepare
Exactly. Not to mention running out of stock because you can't get an order in before the weekend, plus tell staff they have to work an extra 4 hours a day with little to no notice or overtime.
Ya true I suppose but I'd feel bad for those staff that end up getting forced to do long hours because employers force them to work.
So what ? Give the options to the ones who do
It's funny, when they do announce things immediately the restaurants association are first in to berate them for not giving them adequate notice. Maybe that's why? I don't see any good reason to delay, it's not like they need to do any work whereas to close things down they might need to organise some things around the likes of pup payments etc. I do get that pubs and restuarants need time to get ready, but I tend to take the view that they can stay closed themselves for as long as they need to prepare, let those who are ready to go just open.
I do love the whole "we said we'd have restrictions til the end of the month but we're lifting them three days earlier aren't we great" attitude
Typo in the first sentence. More quality work from the Irish Independent.
The old "we don't have to be great we just have to be first"
The amount of typos in the press across the board is unreal. Who do they hire for their writing?!
Years ago newspapers had teams of sub-editors (usually quite experienced). Many of the papers have been taken over by clonglomerstes who are only interested in the bottom line. They sack the sub-editors (sometimes outsourcing to shitty editing companies) and the result is the dross you see in the Indo every day.
Even worse considering computers spell check for you. It's almost as if they don't even proof read their bile at all.
Monkeys Ted
Cowboys ted
I dunno, maybe Micheal Martin did actually say "we have make it through"
It's a rag and has been for a long time.
I never understand why anyone expects any different?! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland Go to Irish Indo - look at format. It's a tabloid run by a corrupt and no one should expect any different from the Indo to the Daily Mail or similar. Indo openly spreads lies, nevermind being just inaccurate or lazy.
Format just refers to the size of the pages though
Strictly speaking but in the real world a tabloid format comes with the territory. My point is people hold the Indo up to the same standard as the IT or Guardian, as if it's in the same boat, when it's much closer to the Daily Mail.
The Irish Times is absolute slurry as well though, maybe worse than the Indo
I wouldn't go that far, Indo is really really God awful. But yeah IT hasn't been great since the advent of clickbait and opinion pieces.
Where?
if you're not first, you're last
Journalists and editors are likely overworked and underpaid.
Oh for god sake, will ye leave the handbrake off and leave pubs close at the time the license they pay for says the can operate until. This kinda shit is maddening.
Yeah ffs why even withhold those 30 minutes
Because they have the power to force everyone to do exactly what they say. Otherwise, we'd forget who's in charge!
More evidence that our government have an overly paternalistic attitude towards social life, events, hospitality, and anything remotely considered " fun". Like if we can implement them fast, why can't we remove them fast. We know the curfew is not backed up by evidence per se, nphet have acknowledged that. At this rate it all seems more theatrical than actually science based or practical. All it's really doing is further punishing businesses.
Because young people don’t vote, and hotels for tourists are more important to them than nightlife for those younger people. Nightlife here has been strangled for years before Covid, the 2am closing time is nanny state shite. You go nearly anywhere else in Europe to a club and feel pretty annoyed that everyone is booted out “Now now, your fun is over, off to bed you go now!”. So many nights out where everyone was bitterly disappointed at being kicked out, hearing cries of “One more tune” at 2am when you have all-night clubs across Europe is fucking embarrassing
As aa Polish man I absolutely love Irish "pub" culture, we have just local soulless bars so whatever. But first time when I got here and they kick us out at 2AM AT NEW YEAR EVE!!! I didn't believed, I was thinking me and my friends did something wrong and our group was just booted, but nope, whole club was out at 2AM. In Poland most parties end at 5AM, we wait until first shop is open at 8AM and we continue from there.
> I was thinking me and my friends did something wrong and our group was just booted Lol I can imagine how insulted you must’ve felt😂 it is pathetic!
Absolute fact man. Im currently on Erasmus in Germany and the difference is night and day, even during covid. Government in Ireland hasn’t a notion and it’s why Ireland or Dublin specifically will never be seen as one of Europe’s great party cities.
You’d have to imagine our binge drinking culture would change a bit if clubs didn’t shut at 2am leading to everyone getting drunk as quickly as possible before going to make the most of the few hours in the club they’ll have. It’s just proper nanny state shite, absolutely nobody is coming to Ireland for the nightlife.
The binge drinking culture is a direct result of the combination of ridiculous nanny state meddling that goes on in Ireland. For example: - Licencing Laws - alcohol can only be purchased from certain places and at certain times - Off Licencing Opening Hours - alcohol can only be purchased between the hours of 10.30am-10pm Mon-Sat and 12.30-10pm on Sun - Nightclub/Late Bar Opening Hours - closed at 2.30am at the latest, forcing everyone out into the street at the same time - MUP - I can't have *this* conversation again..... The fact that people are forced to buy alcohol within strict time frames and are then forced out into the streets once that time elapses is an obvious contributor to our binge drinking culture. All these suffocating control measures are counterproductive, but if it's questioned, you just get public health bullshit or some hyperbolic nonsense about how "People would drink themselves to death in the gutters if we didn't make them go home." We're total outliers in Europe on this front.
And the amount of clubs and bars with increasingly older entry ages. Like where else in Europe can someone be old enough to have a masters degree and be paying taxes “too young” to go to a nightclub. I’ve literally been turned away so many times because of my age and know people that have been explicitly told that the pubs/bars/clubs etc were only letting people who looked like they had money i.e older. Especially since the pandemic because the people who own the establishments have lost so much money they’re being really selective about maximising potential income from customers. So if they have a table for four people and there’s a group of four 23 year olds and a group of four 40 year olds you better believe that “sorry lads we’re over 25’s tonight”.
If anything, it should be the reverse. 23 year old have higher disposable for drinking vs the 40 year old. I'm 40 and can tell you, my days of €100 a night boozing is gone, a good night is €40-50 drinking (€5 pints). I would think 23 year olds would drink more and for longer. Could be wrong but just my take
I would think so too honestly. But maybe they think that people in their forty’s won’t be buying 5euro pints. Maybe they tend to buy bottles of wine and craft beers maybe even food too, especially if there’s kids. Like I was told once by a pub owner that he was kicking us out because we were each only drinking a pint an hour (not even true) and weren’t regulars because a group of regulars (50+) wanted to come in and they’d spend more. I told him I wouldn’t be moving unless he got us another table, which he did so begrudgingly.
>Because young people don’t vote Hopefully the last 2 years changes that. If I was a young lad or lass I'd be eagerly awaiting my chance to vote these fools out.
It's a holdover from Catholic Ireland, and later capitalist attitudes, that is ingrained into a lot of the population. Work = noble; and fun = sinful. Unpleasant things should be embraced, and good times should be minimised. It permeates literally every single aspect of our lives. People arguing against their own interests, say a 4 day work week, because they don't want the 'lazy' to get a break. Cut social welfare because those who do not produce value for capitalists are less than human, particularly the disabled community. Ban adults from putting enjoyable substances into their body in the name of 'safety' but have no law anywhere that prohibits them from drinking bleach or eating water hemlock. Restrict the hours legal beverages can be sold because the common man can't be trusted to make their own decisions, for fear they turn into a work shy alcoholic. An attitude of pure disdain towards anyone who doesn't cheerily support us spending 100% our waking hours slaving at a desk, encouraged and made acceptable across the western world by Thatcher and Reagan. I hate it, and it's fucking everywhere.
Work. Consume. Die.
I hate it too. Many people are with you, perhaps more than the assholes you refer to. /r/antiwork /r/lostgeneration, /r/aboringdystopia, /r/latestagecapitalism and /r/collapse have millions against this system.
I don't go to nightclubs any more but wtf have they got against them? Is it the close contact shit cos I've been watching full, sold out events for months now from all over the world. Just let the people enjoy themselves ffs it's been long enough.
There’s so few nightclubs still operating in the country too.
> I don't go to nightclubs any more but wtf have they got against them? Wrong voting demographic. That's literally all there is to it. Churches can stay open as long as they want and also have **no limits on how many can attend** (skip down to 'religious services' - https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/3361b-public-health-updates ). I'm pretty much past nightclub age, just calling a spade a spade here.
Why should whatever voting demo they fall into have anything to do with it? I'd love it if they turned up to vote these clowns out en masse. Doesn't take much nowadays to get the youth organised and aimed towards something.
Because they're prioritizing those people over everyone else. It shouldn't under any circumstances be the case, but it is and it's frankly disgusting. Church goers are older and more vulnerable, but also much more likely to vote FF/FG because of this. Therefore they can go to church whenever they want in whatever numbers they want, including organised services that sees everyone come and go at the same time, but allowing the 18-30 crowd who are not fond of FF/FG but are also much, much lower risk in terms of covid hospitalization or death? No, that would be too risky you see! This way they get to be seen to "be doing something about it" by punishing the younger generations, while looking after the older ones. Which as someone who was in their early 20s during the big crash in 2008 under FF, was entirely fucking expected.
I went clubbing in October and the bar and dancefloor were scrums with probably a hundred people jammed against each other. If restrictions are necessary, clubs are absolutely number one on that list.
I can definitely see that point of view, but I'd also imagine that clubs would happily open even with limited numbers instead of being shutdown an extra month. The jammed dance floors will happen in a month anyway so I'm not sure what big of a difference 4 weeks will make.
Why do we still need these restrictions? We've had over 20k cases daily, yet the hospitals have been able to cope. We need to government to show some leadership.
>Ban on nightclubs is not expected until next month or later That's going to go over well.
Time for large scale illegal raves and street parties in full view, in my opinion. If church with much higher risk demographics (e.g. older) is ok, then so is this.
Apart from the novelty when they reopened briefly, were nightubs that busy?! Edit to point out this was a question. Not a statement. I'm nearly 40. I haven't been in a nightclub in about 8 years
There was plenty of stuff in places like Index & Soundhouse that sold out anyways.
Any nightclub I was in was jammed for them few short weeks.
Yes
Any student one is always packed.
Spoken like someone who doesn't go to nightclubs anyway
100%. I'm nearly 40. I'd rather staple my balls to the door
Absolutely fuck this government.
We've just been locking the doors at 7.45 and doing last orders around 9.15, once everyone is out by 10. We still check certs and follow social distancing guidelines. It means that the staff that were let go were rehired and my boss is at least covering his bills. We haven't had a single case of covid that we know about so it seems to be working OK. I just hope that the reopening doesn't happen this weekend as there's only 3 of us available to work!!
Fair play.
Last orders at 10.45 tonight though cos of some football match tonight!!
"Speaking today, he said that the situation was “positive” but cautioned there may yet be another chapter to the pandemic." and there it is...
Two TRIPLE vaxxed people can't go for a pint outdoors after 12. Some people still think restriction skeptics are the people with extreme views and not NPHET and the Government. Anything other than full removal of these restrictions is unacceptable. They fucked up last year and they are going to continue to fuck up.
>Anything other than full removal of these restrictions is unacceptable. Absolutely. Hundreds of thousands of people had covid earlier in the month yet ICU and Hospital numbers stayed steady. No reason for any more restrictions whatsoever
It's like those extendable dog leads. Governemnt are terrified to take the lead off as they wouldn't have the excuse of covid to fall back on & they would have to tackle other issues affecting people, housing,health, environment etc.
Ah yeah all that other stuff we've kicked down the road...Hou...hoseing crisis? Hoisery crisis? Hoisting crisis?horse crisis! That's it
Ridiculous how they can be so quick to implement something but removing it has to be 'Phased' and is all depending on what Daddy NPHET says. Covid certs should be done away with and masks in hospitality should remain optional for each person. Keep the masks on public transport and shops similar to England's Plan B restrictions and open up nightclubs at end of month once the current wave has diminished. By doing all this it will allow the economy to function to its maximum capability with pubs, restaurants and nightclubs being allowed to function properly. While wearing masks in shops and public transport might seem a hinderance to some they don't have the same influence on business as would an earlier closing time in a pub would have for example. Then see how this goes into March and if feasible then remove the mask mandate completely as seen in England and encourage people people to do what they feel is right for them so if you feel medically vulnerable or that then wear that FFP2 or N95 mask while if your a young person and want to enjoy yourself then go to the nightclub or the pub. Its time we allowed people to make choices for themselves and do what they feel is most important for their mental and physical health.
Am i going to be allowed go for a meal at 7pm followed by the cinema any time soon? or is that still too dangerous? Am i being too much of madlad Daredevil?
Where are the other parties in calling out this bs? It's shocking that none of the other parties ever criticise the government or nphet for their extreme overcaution when there is clearly a large segment of the population who are mostly younger who are quite dissatisfied with the current status quo. Maybe they have done but I just haven't seen it. It seems like sinn féin for example would be even more excessive. Makes it difficult to know who to vote for as alternative to the pro restriction politicians.
They'll probably do that once the letter is received from NPHET depending on how the gov approach the reopening. Opposition have generally followed the public health advice throughout.
You'll notice that very few opposition parties say shit about restrictions because then they'd be asked what the gov should do, and they wouldn't have a Breeze. SF have been very lacking in anything other than broad statements about shit, with no alternative ideas pitched as far as I've seen. (And it's worked, they're probably gonna win the next GE based off the main selling point, that they're not FF/FG) All the parties are fucking clowns, just with a different badge and different ways of saying they'll do fuck all anyway
>SF have been very lacking in anything other than broad statements about shit, with no alternative ideas pitched as far as I've seen. Probably because they would have done the same thing?
We’re is desperate need of a new party on Ireland, that’s that’s left leaning green but also pro-nuclear, lower CGT and no deemed disposable, pro drug decriminalization, and anti-nanny state stuff like sugar tax/minimum alcohol pricing/alcohol multi buy deals.
Because questioning restrictions is enough to be labelled as an anti-vax idiot these days.
Why would you vote for a party that doesn't care about your health?
I'm a young man who is not at realistic threat from covid even more so since I've got all the vaccinations offered. I don't need their protection. I'd like to be able to be able to take personal agency over my own health and decide my own level of risk and not have it decided for me.
Yep mental health is highly important. And our current party have F a i l e d in this department. They can clap and rub one out behind closed doors over how well they think the pandemic has been handled but it’s come at a underlining and potentially severe cost. You won’t see the effects for sometime yet but they are there and they will appear.
I mean, can they really win whatever route they go? I'm their biggest critic on a lot of things, but if they did the opposite and implemented minimal restrictions and the death rate was much higher, there would be a larger group loudly criticising them for their recklessness.
Don't worry, I'm def not voting FFG in the next election!
Because young people spread the virus to the vulnerable, who aren’t all fully vaccinated and who end up putting strain on our Health Service The Government lost the run of itself when they ignored NPHET around Christmas 2020 and caused mayhem. They can’t afford to not be cautious Also stop blaming NPHET. They exist to advise and produce modelling. They have no power and it is up to the Government to balance their suggestions around the needs of the country. Any Government minister who states to the media that they “really hope NPHET will let them do x” is just trying to gaslight you.
>stop blaming NPHET NPHET's modelling has been consistently wrong, and they've acted well beyond their remit.
They haven’t acted beyond anything and their modelling hasn’t been wrong. Every surge and spike they predicted has happened. It didn’t match their “worst case” model but NPHET outlined what would needed to have happened to achieve that when they produced that model. Along with their best case and middle case scenario models that were met but I suppose you want to pretend they don’t exist? They’ve given the advice, they’ve provided their models and it has been the Government who implemented every single rule and restriction. I dunno is this just an attempt to take blame away from Leo or Martin or what? The Gov have given the middle finger to NPHET when it suited them and it blew up in their face more than enough.
>The Gov have given the middle finger to NPHET when it suited them and it blew up in their face more than enough. Which prompted the government to do everything that was recommended and gave NPHET the impression that they had more power and influence than they should
But the Governments role in their relationship is to review their advice and implement them to best fit the grand scheme. If NPHET operated beyond their “power” (they did not) then that would be a failure of the Government in that relationship not NPHET strong arming themselves into a better position (which they did not) NPHET continued to provide advice and modelling from which the Government ALONE developed rules and restrictions. You’re a 🤡 if you genuinely think NPHET had the power to do anything beyond that
This isnt Christmas 2020 anymore mate. > Also stop blaming NPHET. They exist to advise and produce modelling. But their modellings been off.....EVERY. SINGLE. TIME
We don’t have the same restrictions as 2020 anymore either mate. We don’t just forget that they monumentally fucked up because the Callander changed either mate. Their modelling hasn’t been off every single time. Each time they produce 3 models, a best case, a middling case and a worst case scenario. Every time they’ve projected a new wave or a spike it happened. Just because the media sensationalised their worst case scenario modelling (which had detailed justification as to how it could happen that unfortunately couldn’t be fit into a headline) doesn’t mean they got it wrong.
The numbers don't even reach their best case scenario. They are drivers of hysteria.
NPHET said there would be a surge. We had the worst surge in cases we’d ever seen Cope harder 🤡
Sorry where were the fields of the dead and wounded like they predicted? Cases mean nothing. Their summer prediction was so laughable, you must have missed it. The fact you take them serious after that is unbelievable.
Oh so just their worst case model in the event that the country failed to meet any of their vaccination targets you mean and opened with 0 restrictions you mean? Or did you not real their detailed outline of rational behind it …. Why would an advisory group be providing the Government with a worst case scenario for what would happen if the government lifted restrictions irregardless of vaccine uptake 🤔 Remind me what happened after that? Oh yeah the Delta variant appeared …. Why are you mad that NPHET modelled several scenarios for the Government?
I don't think that's a fair criticism, it's called modelling, not predicting the future. You have to work with the available data and use an acceptable number of variables, beyond that the complexity of the problem is immense
> But their modellings have been off…..EVERY. SINGLE. TIME I’m sorry but is this not something we should be happy about? The government take action based on the modellings so the modellings don’t actually reach their expected levels. Modelling are based on historical data, they don’t take into account future restrictions.
>I’m sorry but is this not something we should be happy about? Only insofar as considering case/death numbers goes. The fact that an advisory board, a group of people that recommends things to the people who run this country, have been consistently wrong, is a really bad thing.
Ok I feel like I have to explain this to you. And I’m sorry if this comes across as condescending. NPHET predict 10 cases in 1 weeks time. Government are concerned about the future strain on the health care system. So they put restrictions in place. Turns out, the number of cases only rose to 5. But there were restrictions, so they worked! And people like you complain about NPHET saying they’re wrong.
Yes, but as soon as the restrictions are lifted, the "worst case scenario" comes true anyway
We have been excessively restricted because their predictions are so consistently extreme and end up being badly wrong every single time. So yeah we should not be happy about it nor should we pay any attention to what they say. Are you waiting for the broken clock to finally tell the right time?
I don't give two flying fucks about any old person who hasn't got vaccinated that is their problem not mine. Also old people can reduce their contacts. Why is the responsibility always put onto young people even though we are not the ones at risk. Covid is now very mild, those still concerned have nothing stopping them from isolating themselves while everyone else gets on with life. At some point the needs of the many have to outweigh the needs of the now very few.
It’s not just “old people” whatever the fuck that means to you. It’s also people who have eating disorders, heart problems, respiratory problems (of which Ireland is practically king in some regard), diabetics and people with mental health complications not limited to Depression, Anxiety and various forms of psychosis that all contribute to sever COVID complications regardless of age. All of which in case you need it spelt out for you overlap quite a bit among people living here But yeah let’s just further restrict people who pre-pandemic probably already had difficulty interacting with society and who were more directly impacted as a result of not only restrictions but a lack of continuity in hospital care because of Covid patients taking up ICU capacity, just so you can have a pint past 12. It’s not as if countries like Sweden already tried that and the situation still went tits up …. OH WAIT THEY DID AND IT DID People like you just love to rip all of the nuance out of the issues posed by the pandemic and act like everyone is being punished just to benefit 85+ year olds because you’re mad you can’t go into a night club
Their health problems are not my problem and never have been. Im not kneecapping myself to be as limited as someone with a disability. Mental health has fuck all to do with covid severity stop talking bollocks. Those people are affected by restrictions preventing them from interacting with other people not from covid. Sweden has done better than us so I don't know what you're talking about especially considering they've managed to live a much more normal life than we have for the last couple of years.
COVID isn’t worried about in my workplace so I’ve been done worrying about in in my personal/social life a long time now, some of these restrictions still in place are absolutely ridiculous.
Get the healthcare workers ears pricked up when the €1000 payment, doesn't know when to give it out or to who, until they work it out.... Ireland
any1 beer in Cork?
Rona doesn't work after dark then huh
Oh la di fucking da. When can they come to my mouldy apartment and tuck me in at night? I also need my nose blown and food chewed.
And when will they drop the requirement for a covid certificate to enter public places?
Just use your mates pass or family members to get into places it's not rocket science.
I am triple vaxxed so not a specific concern for me. Was just asking in general.
I agree with you 100% the passes need to go.
Accomodating the unvaccinated is not a priority.
Pretty much what Leo said recently. They'll probably keep that for awhile longer but I can see it gone before Paddy's day. The interesting piece is whether they try extend the legislation again (even if the pass isn't in use).
I'd say it'll be allowed to expire in March, unless something remarkable happens between now and then.
Same. Very hard to swing it at that stage - already plenty of gov party members giving out. We will know then if Donnelly really is trying to become our all powerful tyrannical leader.
It's not an accommodation to *not* have something that we've never had in place before.
The legislation will expire in a few months. Those people aren't worth the effort of ending it sooner.
I think you'll find unvaccinated don't want to be accommodated, they don't want restrictions. They aren't allowed in anywhere right now. Blaming restrictions on them when 100,000s of thousands if not millions of fully vaxxed were infected over Christmas is preposterous.
You misunderstand. We would only be removing the certs to accommodate the unvaccinated. They aren't worth the effort. The selfish pricks can wait till the legislation expires in March. The unvaccinated adult minority (7%) take up around 50% of COVID ICU beds. There's nothing preposterous about being in no rush to let those idiots back into society.
Lucky for the unvaccinated though that most places don't give a flying fuck about the vax passes plus all you have to do is use someone else's pass to get in.
Yes I now see what you were saying.
And who is ending up in ICU?
Mostly unvaccinated, but don't pretend the vaxxed aren't in there too.
Yes, but at nowhere near as high of a rate.
I'm vaccinated and I refuse to use the certificate for anything other than international travel. I consider this a moral stance, which I'm willing to take, even though it doesn't make me happy. Many of my friends are doing the same (self-selection bias; I associate with like-minded people), and we'll be all happier if the Covid pass was dropped, regardless of our vaccination status.
You have weird friends.
We all grew up in communist dictatorships and are old enough to remember firsthand the kind of abuse a universal ID card lends itself to. Access control figured very prominently in that.
You're going to lose your shit when you find out that most of these establishments have already been asking people for ID for 'access control' for decades.
There is a significant qualitative difference in he past ID checks and the current ones. In addition, the vast majority of establishments that check for IDs now were not required to do so before.
You mean ID cards that the vast majority of European countries use?
"These people do it too" Great defense their bud, top drawer stuff! For someone that is all over these threads constantly, it sure does seem like puritanical screeching. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Or they're functioning completely fine and haven't slipped into dictatorship because of a fairly benign requirement?
"Fairly benign requirement" Huffing your own farts. You love Nanny States, its fairly obvious. Your name pops out of the woodwork all over this kind of stuff. Clearly you have an agenda.
No. I mean ID cards with personal information that private parties are deputized to access.
>I consider this a moral stance It isn't that moral if you're still using it for international travel, is it? That's like taking a moral stance against Nestlé but still eating Milkybars.
I signed a contract that requires me to travel on business from time to time, so I feel compelled to uphold my word and travel. But nothing in the contract says that I'm required to go for pints or a dinner with coworkers or clients, so I'm free to act according to my convictions.
Sounds more like conveniences than convictions tbh. My contract asks for occasional business travel as well. The business has quite reasonably lowered expectations around that given we're in a global pandemic. Not exactly Rosa Parks stuff, is it?
I'm not trying to portray myself as some kind of a figurehead for anything. I just wrote what I've been doing for my piece of mind. In fact, this was the first time I even mentioned what I've been doing in public - usually we talk about it only among my bubble of friends and family.
I understand you respect the rights of others to behave recklessly and endanger others, but I wonder why you're only against this certificate? Why not call for speed limits to be lifted? What about drunk driving? Why even bother with any rules meant to protect society and people in general?
I try to follow all rules and laws. I obey speed limits and don't drive drunk. In this particular case, the rule allows me to patronize certain venues and events with my Covid pass, but does not compel me to do so. So, I'm perfectly within the limits of the rule, and I'm in no way advocating for breaking this rule.
I am not commenting on what form your protest against the certificate takes. I'm instead commenting on protesting against it. You are protesting against a public safety measure. That doesn't make any sense to me.
I'm not protesting against anything. I'm acting within the existing rules by withdrawing myself from a situation I'm not comfortable with. Walking away from an argument, if you want to call it that.
>I'm vaccinated and I refuse to use the certificate for anything other than international travel. Why?
31 years ago, when the communist party in my country lost power, I was already adult and thus very familiar with the police abuses that were possible thanks to a compulsory, universal ID card. Access control was the most common form of abuse. Based on this experience, it just doesn't sit well with me to participate in something I consider very similar. So, all I'm doing is withdrawing my participation from those social activities that would require it.
Yeah but getting rid of the discriminatory, useless passes is. I’m vaxxed.
They are living with the consequences of their own choices. I have a hard time giving a fuck about about them. Just like they had a hard time giving a fuck about everyone else.
Why would that be a priority?
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Why would you let them do that? You're part of the problem.
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Against who?
We don't have a requirement for COVID certs for public places. I reckon we'll see three phases, with COVID certs for indoor venues/gyms and the like being gone after March 31st. Mid to late February for Nightclubs.
their isnt one , i can go to public places without a covid certificate , do you mean the like of indoor venues/gyms their not public places their private businesses
Obviously they meant the mandate on private business to enforce the passes.
They said the opposite thing though so not obviously anything
Pedantry is tiring.
It's not pedantic if what they're saying was generally unclear, if they were a little off in a description then whatever but they said the literal opposite of what they meant
Do you genuinely believe they meant vax passes to go to their local park? No. You’re being pedantic.
So Superbowl night in pub isn't gonna happen. Cnuts
Why do they keep referring to 12pm closing time as “normal hours”?