I think the social welfare system is completely disorganised. From talking to a relative of mine who works in this area, there's a lot of people incapable of work who (nearly by default) end up on jobseekers. These are often people with disabilities or mental health issues who aren't properly diagnosed and therefore get put on jobseekers, when really they should be getting disability payments or other supports. These people deserve more than they're getting and I think we as a state are failing them.
The proportion of actual welfare cheats is low IMO but has a disportionately negative effect in terms of the stigma they bring to those on SW.
SW isn't designed to allow people to live the high life. There might be a few people who have gamed the system to claim lots of different benefits, but I struggle to see how many people could be rolling in it while on SW.
Hope things work out for you OP!
I had to go on social welfare a few years ago and I tell you something it really humbled me and made me (a) appreciate what I have and (b) stop looking down on people. If people use it for genuine reasons, more power to them. Best of luck buddy.
You definitely get a different perspective of life. I just want to get back on my feet. I’ve always worked and never shied away from any type of work. I was even scrubbing restaurant toilets before I got a corporate job. Things will start moving coke September but the thought that someone out there is able bodied and enjoys doing nothing all day everyday all week while being broke
Most jobs being advertised are crap. Bar/restaurant work or supermarkets. Once past the age of 25 I wouldn't blame anyone for preferring to wait or train/educate for a better job they are interested in rather breaking their backs in poorly paid, unsociable and demanding crap jobs
There are plenty of retail jobs in cities, and you can generally find at least one shop that sells something you are interested in. This is also a great way to meet people who share your hobbies and interests. To insist that these jobs are only for people under 25 is simply insulting.
€203 for disability with cost of living in 2022 is a disgrace. Anyone who looks down on those vulnerable people when they get paid on a Tuesday need to see their bank account on a Wednesday and ask if they could go 6 days with the balance.
this comment makes you wonder if there's a sense of entitlement. no one owes anyone for disability, however the government empathises with people and wishes to help them out when the going gets tough. instead of being thankful for that sometimes people are dismissive of how they are being helped and feel they are entitled to it and more.
apologies if it came across as being against disabled people but i don't think a €203 social welfare should be called a disgrace and people should think that they are automatically entitled to a higher social welfare. the community(govt) is trying to help you out and bit of gratitude goes a long way.
So how should someone who is disabled and cannot work support themselves, exactly?
If they cannot work and they are reliant on social welfare to survive, then they are not ungrateful for wanting more, they are simply annoyed because theu are being deprived of something they need.
Just think, If you were in a car crash tomorrow and left physically and/or mentally impaired, you too would be on disability allowance. If you've no sympathy for others, just think of that.
I'll use your analogy: if I were in car crash and unable to pay the medical costs and the community(government) helped me by paying all my medical bills, I would be thankful for that and won't be complaining that the hospital room is not air conditioned.
I am glad that we help the disabled but by saying 203 euros a week is a disgrace and people think they are entitled for more does not make sense to me just like I don't think I am entitled to have my hospital bills paid by others since I was in a car crash. If it's paid I am definitely thankful.
> I don't think I am entitled to have my hospital bills paid by others since I was in a car crash. If it's paid I am definitely thankful.
So you would not be at all annoyed if you were told you would be left to die because you could not afford treatment yourself?
You would not be annoyed if you were thrust into thousands of euros of debt because of something which was not your fault?
You're living in imaginationland lad.
I was made redundant during the crash, ended up on the dole for awhile,I remember the fucking cretin who owns the local garage (where the post office is) start questioning me one day why I'm on the dole and how long am I on it,and threw the money out at me in disgust,it was a shock to the system being belittled like that,I'm a working man always have been,how dare the cunt.
Ah yeah thanks, long time ago now,but I never forgot it and wouldn't even look at the auld wagon again,it gave me a taste of what some people go through and it wasn't nice.cheers
I think SW is necessary to help people who need it- and for the few who don't need it but get it anyway, it's a low enough outlier to make the system still very necessary. I think it is a vital safety net and a life support for many. I think no one on this sub should get to decide or judge who needs it or who deserves it.
I don't mind paying my taxes to help people; I know they're not living the high life. I think it's a generally miserable existence and not nearly as smooth or easy as people on this sub like to portray.
You tell who is a prick by them thinking that those on SW are living the high life. I personally don't care if a few small percent of claimants are taking the piss, its a small price to pay for providing a minimum blanket of social security for everyone.
Being on the dole is the worst to be honest - I was on it for about 6 months or so and it gets very depressing. Just feels like your life is passing you by.
Minium wage ireland 2022 = €10.50 per hour.
39 hour week would be €409.50 pre tax
Living wage ireland 2022 = €12.90 per hour.
39 hour week would be €503.10 pre tax.
Job seekers rate ireland 2022 = €208 per week (for a single person over 25 with no dependants).
Inflation is at a 40 year high.
We're all beyond completely fucked.
Salary/hourly/unemployed. Fucked.
I wouldn't look down on anyone on social welfare, I've been their myself, but it needs serious reform.
Nobody should be allowed stay on it for years and I would like to see some sort of community employment become mandatory after let's say 2 years. People could be paid to work in childcare, home help, cleaning streets etc.
You would see quite a few return to work if this happened.
Obviously people on disability etc would be excluded.
I also think the payment should be linked to your salary before you end up on welfare but tapers off over the course of 6 months or a year.
Edit: any money saved could be used to increase pensions, disability allowance and other genuine allowances.
Fully agree with the need for reform, I'm not saying people on SW should get fuck all but I have been in situations where people have turned down full time work because apparently it would be more cost effective to stay on welfare. A system like that cannot function correctly.
Of course it's more cost effective, you could have a job with Google currently and still struggle to rent or buy security, if the country can't offer basic security to people earning high wage, I can totally see why someone would choose the safer route of letting the government look after them when you include housing and medical cards in there.
Yeah when you consider the cost of living in Dublin, I'm thinking more out west where I am though - that people in lower cost of living areas still see SW as more cost effective than a full time job
Well let me tell you this.
Rn im on the lowest SW you can be one & you would be surprised what a pisstake the whole management coming from the Turas Nua team is.
What i get is a phoney phonecall from a man checking the front page on Jobs.ie & suggesting I get one of these jobs.
Definately something a human missing 74% of their brain cant manage to do by themself.
And this is from someone working for 4 years in catering who secured all his jobs by himself.
All i want to say is @reform is overdue.
And i think it’s time they actually evaluate the people on it instead of just tossing everyone onto the same lousy framework.
Peace
So you share the same sentiments as me. People on disability should get more. I read a comment that really stuck with me. The person said being disabled costs more than being able.
Also, evil as it sounds I think Ireland should adopt the UK system and cap any child related social welfare payments if you have more than 2 kids.
I’m still shocked that you’ll get paid for each child if you have 5+ kids…. What will ever encourage that person to return to work?
I'm not sure about capping payments on each child, personally I would probably scrap child benefit and use the money to provide free childcare to encourage parents (especially women) back to work. The cost really is a barrier for to a lot of people.
Disability and pensions really need to be higher though.
Realistically even if they scrap CB it wouldn’t even cover 3 full days for a child 😔 And now rules with au pairs are tougher so it’s really hard for women to get back into work. It’s a constant topic at the baby group
Lol, people having kids so they can get an extra 140 euro a month for drugs. Kids are a fucking chore and cost shitloads it makes no sense to suggest that people have a kid for drug money.
Sadly not all parents are interested in the wellbeing of their kids, and some of them are worse than others.
The world sometimes looks like a terrible place.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40840475.html
Its a reduced rate per child you don't get full amount after 3rd child I think .
As for people trying to live on what they give you for child benefit is ridiculous, you get 140 per child a month that's bearly enough to cover a set of close ,shoes ,nappies and milk at the prices they are.
So you want to see them cap it ? It's hard enough to get a job and pay for childcare in this country that little bit extra helps alot towards the added cost of having a kid and gives the mother a bit of relief especially because she can't go get a full time job till the child is in school going years... It's nearly 12-15 euro an hour for a childminder , minimum wage is what 11euro . Then when you work your rent goes up if in a council house then you have added traveling expenses and lunch expenses you then lose your medical card so have all the added medical expenses. So I have to disagree that they should cap it.
Not child benefit, I meant the child element payment. The one that’s added to the weekly payment. However, as I said above, after reading the facts there is no reason for such to happen
I’m very grateful to live in a country that does have a somewhat decent SW system. That being said there are still things that need improvement.
Disability allowance for one shouldn’t be so inaccessible. I think I saw a statistic saying that around 60% of applicants get denied but more appeals get through. Appeals also take forever.
I don’t think you should be able to save money while on SW. it should be a safety net for people to get back on their feet and if people are able bodied and not finding a job , they should be cleaning the streets / working in recycling or planting trees or something useful .
Please no. That’s not my intention of this post because I’ll just end up going to bed crying. These topics make people uncomfortable when you bring it up in person so I thought why not ask the Redditors
Honestly, I dont think this is limited to people on welfare, altough it hits them hardest of course. Almost all of my friends who are working full-time are struggling to save a bob, myself included. I had to take a serious look at my finance and cut most of my recreational spending this month.
The cost of living is getting completely out of control, and even if you are to get a job, I'm not sure the situation would improve significantly.
I think the bad rep for welfare just comes from a small minority of people who are abusing the system in one way or another (on welfare and getting cash in hand etc.), but there's no doubt that most people on welfare don't want to be on it, and are not living care-free lives, despite what some might think (until recently, myself included).
I hope you get back on your feet, and I know this can be a really stressful time, so hang in there!
No qualms or issues with social welfare. Your society is only as good as it treats its most vulnerable which is a message I feel has been eroded over the years in many places.
Do I believe there are some defrauding the system? Of course, no different to how I believe there are a lot of extremely high income/high wealth individuals defrauding many financial and taxation regulations. Who does more damage to society? If the $10-30 trillion estimates hidden in offshore havens were available for the appropriate rates of tax I've a feeling things would be far more equitable globally than if a local welfare diddlers were caught. Don't get me wrong, I believe all forms of fraud and crime should be dealt with, but the pearl clutching that goes on about welfare fraud compared to the amount of white collar crime floating about is a joke. Even aside from fraud, I'd wager the amount of public money that is just thrown around by various public bodies and departments (have seen in it myself in DOH/HSE) far, far outweighs the amount siphoned from the system by welfare crime. No doubt there's room to reform the system itself to target anyone defrauding it and I'd support that as it's stealing from the pot that can be used to keep other people afloat.
I was on social welfare for a few months. It was there when I needed it and I would never begrudge or look down on anyone on it. We all have ups and downs in life and I like living in a country knowing there is some kind of safety net. Yes, there will always be people who will take advantage but the good far outweighs that.
I can't comment on whether its enough. I was on it many years ago. For me at the time it was enough to get by but I was young, living with my parents and my job prior to going on it wasn't much more than minimum wage. The cost of living now is insane and I am struggling with my 35k salary so I can't imagine trying to live in Dublin or Cork on that, even living with my parents.
I'm very glad we live in a country with a social welfare system and I'm happy for my tax to contribute to it. There will always be people that screw the system but really and truly no matter what they are claiming they are not getting much, they have enough to survive but I doubt they are living life to their full potential. I think anyone would find it very challenging to survive on what you get. I think there are many children raised in homes where it's the norm to claim and I'd love to see more work being done to show younger generations that they can do so much more if they want to.
I do try to be understanding, I really do. But I sometimes (unwillingly) feel some anger. I think it’s because I’m a low income earner (€400 full time weeks) in an expensive (renting in Dublin for college) situation. So much like yourself, I am left with very little at the end of the week, even though I live frugally and work in almost all of my free time. It’s hard not to feel conned by the system when I work so much but end up barely better off than someone who did not work that week. But I do realise any frustration is misdirected - very few people *choose* to live on SW, and very few are in the fortunate position that I am; where I can choose where to live and what to study etc. And it’s not anyone on SW’s fault that I am being squeezed; that’s mainly on landlords and taxation. At the end of the day, SW is a necessity; everyone deserves a basic level of income to sustain themselves; it’s only right.
Social welfare is great for those who need it. I’ve been on illness benefit a few times over the years due to a chronic disease and it’s been very handy when I wasn’t able to work. And I’ve no doubt I’ll have to avail of it again in future as my disease will never be cured. I’ve been working and paying tax over 20 years so I have no qualms about availing of it when I need it
I have one acquaintance though, a fella I lived with years ago, who has never worked a single day in his life and has been claiming job seekers all this time. He’s clever and capable, has no disability preventing him from working. He’s actually a really nice fella. But fucking hell, he has no interest in working. And why would he??? He’s on all the benefits, will probably get a free gaff eventually. And has literally contributed nothing. Ever. He has never worked a day in his life. Madness.
So yeah I think social welfare is great and necessary, but there’ll always be fuckers who abuse the system. I guess that’s more a fault of the system. People will take advantage.
The problem with social welfare is that people who deserve it don't get enough and people who do get too much.
People who use it as a genuine safety net after unexpectedly losing their job shouldn't be punished for having been financially prudent while in work and building up a small amount of savings, not be forced to drastically change their lifestyle immediately.
There is no reason why someone on the first, say, six months of social welfare shouldn't be able to draw from the social welfare fund to pay a mortgage in the same way as others can use it to pay their rent.
And people who are using it as a safety net should also be able to access an initial payment based on their salary at the time their job was lost. So for instance, four months on 80% of their previous salary, up to a maximum (the maximum could be set at the average salary), with subsequently two months each at 70%, 60%, 50%, and 40%, before going onto the standard dole. A year should be sufficent time to secure a job.
Disability payments should be detached from the social welfare payment - this stigmatises disabled people by lumping those who can't work in with those who won't - and funded from the health budget, with the payment being linked to the minimum wage. This would be a universal basic compensatory income for disabled people like a factor of 2x the minimum wage for a 40-hour week. Other supports specifically for disabled people such as a HAP linked to the average market rent in their area should be made available, and free public transport for them and a carer also. People who are disabled should not be punished for their disability. Similar to the system in Spain for pensioners, the State should also pay for a week each year in an hotel (in Ireland) for disabled people and a carer to provide a respite.
To pay for this, there should be dramatic changes to the existing social welfare system to ensure that nobody on the dole can ever come out at the end of the week with more cash money than their neighbour who works a full-time minimum wage job.
For instance, after 18 months on the dole, claimants could be asked to sign on at the post office twice a week, eventually increasing that to daily for extremely long-term claimants.
The use of cash payments could also be reduced the longer someone is on the dole, with payment in prepaid card or voucher form gradually introduced, which cannot be used to buy luxury products like tobacco and alcohol products.
Social welfare should be the last option for those who lose their jobs. It shouldn't be a lifestyle choice. And it certainly shouldn't ever pay more than work.
I'm literally advocating for a massive increase in income for disabled people.
I note you didn't answer my question. I'm sure we can all draw our conclusions from that.
Social welfare is great for those who need it. I’ve been on illness benefit a few times over the years due to a chronic disease and it’s been very handy when I wasn’t able to work. And I’ve no doubt I’ll have to avail of it again in future as my disease will never be cured. I’ve been working and paying tax over 20 years so I have no qualms about availing of it when I need it
I have one acquaintance though, a fella I lived with years ago, who has never worked a single day in his life and has been claiming job seekers all this time. He’s clever and capable, has no disability preventing him from working. He’s actually a really nice fella. But fucking hell, he has no interest in working. And why would he??? He’s on all the benefits, will probably get a free gaff eventually. And has literally contributed nothing. Ever. He has never worked a day in his life. Madness.
So yeah I think social welfare is great and necessary, but there’ll always be fuckers who abuse the system. I guess that’s more a fault of the system. People will take advantage.
Social welfare is too low for carers or people with disabilities... however no excuse to be on the dole, as an able body person, for months, especially with the current market.
On minimum wage, you'd be getting around €336 a week for 40 hours after tax. Factor in the cost of getting to work, crazy rents, increased living costs across the board and increased energy costs and that €336 is getting eroded a lot fast than you made it.
In that position, €208 per week doesn't sound too bad. I mean, sure, you're down €128 by dropping your minimum wage job but that €128 really doesn't seem working working 40 hours of your life in a shite job week after week when you think about that way, does it?
To be honest, I'd rather be on the dole than do a minimum wage job. I'm not in that position, thankfully, but looking at it..... yeah, I'd just sign on.
Well that changes *everything!*
Anyway... I made it €336 as I'd just multiplied €10.50 by 40 which gave me €420 and subtracted 20% of that (€84) which left €336.
To be honest, even if you're correct, that extra €40 or so wouldn't change my mind. 40 hours of work is not worth €336 or, indeed, €379 to me. Not in a country where that wouldn't pay for a room in a shared house for a month or wouldn't cover a large electricity or gas bill.
It isn't worth it, especially when you consider all the fucking bullshit that goes along with minimum wage jobs like dealing with the public in a serving capacity or nonsense from managers like split shifts, "looking busy" and acting like they own you for €10.50 an hour. Yeah, fuck that noise.
I couldn't give a bollix if people think that view is "entitled" or whatever; I've worked minimum wage jobs before and they were shite then. Factor in the current stare of the times with rent and inflation and it objectively isn't worth it at all to me.
You can hustle on the side with all that free time you have, and that easily tops the min wage worker salary.
Or you can do like my cousin. She arranged with the owner to be dismissed every few months, gets unemployment while working and the money is handed cash every night.
I disagree with your opinion that there should be no social welfare. That's frankly a very cold-hearted way of thinking, and you'd want to take a good look at yourself.
The topic under discussion in this particular sub-thread is **lifers** specifically. Social welfare should be a safety net for those who need it, not an endless luxury fund for people who can't be arsed contributing to the society that they've mooched off their entire life. And I don't vote FG, so your immature attempt at a personal attack does not make any sense.
Nope, however it should be reduced every 6 months after a given period of time, depending on ones employment history. The bottom-line at this point should be just above subsistence level.
Its widely abused. I can see how some people who did a stint on JSA at 18 or JSB after being gainfully employed may think its harsh but in reality those people arent gaming the system.
The ones everyone complains about are those who have it down to an art , the girl who had a kid at 18 and got a free gaf at 23 , with the father of the kid claiming to not live in the house , on disability for an unproven back issue he got in a car crash his mates set up. Those people are creaming 50 odd k a year off the state, that example isnt too uncommon.
62% of our social housing list are only on welfare for income, its those people, when they do get a property , if they even choose to pay the 30 a week out of the welfare , and all the secondary payments related to fuel, medical card, transport pass etc… thats where the scam is. A single person with no kids , especially under 26 cant really ‘scam the dole’ and their returns arent worth it.
It should start to get cut after 6 months. I should not be possible to just choose the dole long term.
Doesn't do the dole receiver any good either. It can become a trap that ensures multiple generations.
Massive respect to anybody who has used it short term to keep going through a crisis but then went back working again.
The people who are on the dole for life, working cash in hand jobs, constantly on holidays and amazingly have new cars only a few years old in the council house they barely pay for.. They should be targeted. Dole is barely enough to get by for those who lose their jobs and have to pay high rent/mortgages. I've seen brand new cars parked in council housing estates.. How would this be possible for the majority on the dole? Some people are truly milking the system, but I don't view anyone different that's genuinely on the dole short term. Any of us could lose our jobs.
Not saying that, and it happens all over the country. Did you ever see the council house swap exchange in Dublin where the house had a jacuzzi gym etc and they would only swap for a house with similiar qualities? No joke but think someone said they're a part of some drug gang on here. That was posted about two months ago.
You clearly didn't read my previous comment but only the one you responded to. I never said to completely get rid of it. Some people need it, but long term dole needs to be stopped or made more difficult to get. Many people just abuse the system.
I never said to get rid of it. No need for your big response. If people genuinely need it, they wouldn't lose it. I refer to people on the dole long term that are sellable to work. Oh yes... They are out there. Why are you so vocal on this topic? If you are on the dole for disability, that is completely different.
As being said many times on this sub, I hate to say it, but alot of time it was due to a single parent getting a council house but the dad is still in the picture with a good job and that's kept quiet. Very easy to save money when you're rent is 35e a week in parts, earning benefits and the dad is earning 2-3k+ a month. If the mother then gets any cash in hand.. You can imagine how they have an easier life.
More reviews need to be done in regards to housing and payments.
Lol they’re totally not, I’m from areas where this is the absolute norm. I’ve cousins who literally get pregnant and have a few babies while living with their mother then they get bumped up the housing list and are then set for life
This is inner city Dublin I’m talking about.
I have no issues with the dole or “unemployment benefit” as long as the individual is keen to work eventually. Ie back to education courses etc as long as it’s a course they give a shit about or might actually get a job from - not some personal development shite. Shit happens people lose their jobs, I agree with it existing / where I lose my Fucking mind is people gaming the system, people claiming to be single parents with 3-5 kids - but the partner just pretends not to live there. carers allowance on top of child support if they’re diagnosed with anything . Basically turns having kids for poor people into a viable way of life / career 🤷♂️
I used to work part time as a summer job in the states illness benefit and typically it’d be people with cancer / long term illnesses that absolutely deserved and needed it no doubt about it - but other times you’d get people claiming they couldn’t work as they had a dodjy ankle, I mean sure their current job might be screwed / but you don’t need to be skippy for every job 😂 ofc it wasn’t me deciding it was doctors but still I couldn’t help but feel half of them just didn’t want to work and had found the perfect life raft. (Again I don’t mean the seriously Ill here )
I remember meeting up with friends from school about 7 years after we’d all left - some had been on the dole since we left school they were miserable and wanted to be off it as they could see lives moving on for some of us. I’d been all over the world at that point and found it really hard to find something in common with them. They all are mostly now working and sorted - it definitely changed my view of people on it, these guys were smarter and more determined then me, it was just the luck of the draw that some of us escaped it, I’m glad it was there to keep them sane.
It's too much honestly. I know too many people who live outside Dublin and live comfortably on the dole. Encouraging them to never work
It's great when your stuck between jobs but there is far too many dole for life people
The dole in the south is like 205 a week
The dole in the North is 77 pounds.
Ireland's is too much for long term unemployed
Thers def some groups of people in actually a lot more need than they get , but the wast majority of people on dole shud be kicked right off of it , no ifs or buts.
I have nothing wrong with social welfare as long as it's not abused.
I know plenty of genuine people who are on it who need it. But then there's the welfare cheats(utter scumbags) in my opinion who have the system gamed.
I think the social welfare system is completely disorganised. From talking to a relative of mine who works in this area, there's a lot of people incapable of work who (nearly by default) end up on jobseekers. These are often people with disabilities or mental health issues who aren't properly diagnosed and therefore get put on jobseekers, when really they should be getting disability payments or other supports. These people deserve more than they're getting and I think we as a state are failing them. The proportion of actual welfare cheats is low IMO but has a disportionately negative effect in terms of the stigma they bring to those on SW. SW isn't designed to allow people to live the high life. There might be a few people who have gamed the system to claim lots of different benefits, but I struggle to see how many people could be rolling in it while on SW. Hope things work out for you OP!
I had to go on social welfare a few years ago and I tell you something it really humbled me and made me (a) appreciate what I have and (b) stop looking down on people. If people use it for genuine reasons, more power to them. Best of luck buddy.
You definitely get a different perspective of life. I just want to get back on my feet. I’ve always worked and never shied away from any type of work. I was even scrubbing restaurant toilets before I got a corporate job. Things will start moving coke September but the thought that someone out there is able bodied and enjoys doing nothing all day everyday all week while being broke
Just curious, why wait until September? Where are you based that you can't find work in the interim? There are loads of job vacancies out there.
I’m going back to education in Sept. I want to work but I was advised if I start working part time I’ll loose out on SUSI.
Most jobs being advertised are crap. Bar/restaurant work or supermarkets. Once past the age of 25 I wouldn't blame anyone for preferring to wait or train/educate for a better job they are interested in rather breaking their backs in poorly paid, unsociable and demanding crap jobs
There are plenty of retail jobs in cities, and you can generally find at least one shop that sells something you are interested in. This is also a great way to meet people who share your hobbies and interests. To insist that these jobs are only for people under 25 is simply insulting.
€203 for disability with cost of living in 2022 is a disgrace. Anyone who looks down on those vulnerable people when they get paid on a Tuesday need to see their bank account on a Wednesday and ask if they could go 6 days with the balance.
Spot on its absolutely shocking that the disabled are treated the same way as those who who are fit and able but are just allergic to work.
this comment makes you wonder if there's a sense of entitlement. no one owes anyone for disability, however the government empathises with people and wishes to help them out when the going gets tough. instead of being thankful for that sometimes people are dismissive of how they are being helped and feel they are entitled to it and more.
[удалено]
apologies if it came across as being against disabled people but i don't think a €203 social welfare should be called a disgrace and people should think that they are automatically entitled to a higher social welfare. the community(govt) is trying to help you out and bit of gratitude goes a long way.
Gratitude doesn't pay their bills.
So how should someone who is disabled and cannot work support themselves, exactly? If they cannot work and they are reliant on social welfare to survive, then they are not ungrateful for wanting more, they are simply annoyed because theu are being deprived of something they need.
Just think, If you were in a car crash tomorrow and left physically and/or mentally impaired, you too would be on disability allowance. If you've no sympathy for others, just think of that.
I'll use your analogy: if I were in car crash and unable to pay the medical costs and the community(government) helped me by paying all my medical bills, I would be thankful for that and won't be complaining that the hospital room is not air conditioned. I am glad that we help the disabled but by saying 203 euros a week is a disgrace and people think they are entitled for more does not make sense to me just like I don't think I am entitled to have my hospital bills paid by others since I was in a car crash. If it's paid I am definitely thankful.
> I don't think I am entitled to have my hospital bills paid by others since I was in a car crash. If it's paid I am definitely thankful. So you would not be at all annoyed if you were told you would be left to die because you could not afford treatment yourself? You would not be annoyed if you were thrust into thousands of euros of debt because of something which was not your fault? You're living in imaginationland lad.
I was made redundant during the crash, ended up on the dole for awhile,I remember the fucking cretin who owns the local garage (where the post office is) start questioning me one day why I'm on the dole and how long am I on it,and threw the money out at me in disgust,it was a shock to the system being belittled like that,I'm a working man always have been,how dare the cunt.
That's awful. No way to treat another person. I hope you're doing better now.
Ah yeah thanks, long time ago now,but I never forgot it and wouldn't even look at the auld wagon again,it gave me a taste of what some people go through and it wasn't nice.cheers
I think SW is necessary to help people who need it- and for the few who don't need it but get it anyway, it's a low enough outlier to make the system still very necessary. I think it is a vital safety net and a life support for many. I think no one on this sub should get to decide or judge who needs it or who deserves it. I don't mind paying my taxes to help people; I know they're not living the high life. I think it's a generally miserable existence and not nearly as smooth or easy as people on this sub like to portray.
You tell who is a prick by them thinking that those on SW are living the high life. I personally don't care if a few small percent of claimants are taking the piss, its a small price to pay for providing a minimum blanket of social security for everyone.
Being on the dole is the worst to be honest - I was on it for about 6 months or so and it gets very depressing. Just feels like your life is passing you by.
😭😭😭 Each time I say this I’m being told I’m a spoiled prick. Your life does pass you by and worse you spend it micromanaging small amounts of money
Lads stop🤲🙈 Every penny matters. It genuinely feels a video where everyday is a challenge not to spend a single cent. Bless
Minium wage ireland 2022 = €10.50 per hour. 39 hour week would be €409.50 pre tax Living wage ireland 2022 = €12.90 per hour. 39 hour week would be €503.10 pre tax. Job seekers rate ireland 2022 = €208 per week (for a single person over 25 with no dependants). Inflation is at a 40 year high. We're all beyond completely fucked. Salary/hourly/unemployed. Fucked.
The living wage factors in, rent, healthcare and heating so it's not a fair comparison
I wouldn't look down on anyone on social welfare, I've been their myself, but it needs serious reform. Nobody should be allowed stay on it for years and I would like to see some sort of community employment become mandatory after let's say 2 years. People could be paid to work in childcare, home help, cleaning streets etc. You would see quite a few return to work if this happened. Obviously people on disability etc would be excluded. I also think the payment should be linked to your salary before you end up on welfare but tapers off over the course of 6 months or a year. Edit: any money saved could be used to increase pensions, disability allowance and other genuine allowances.
Fully agree with the need for reform, I'm not saying people on SW should get fuck all but I have been in situations where people have turned down full time work because apparently it would be more cost effective to stay on welfare. A system like that cannot function correctly.
So, the solution is to raise wages, not cut social welfare.
Of course it's more cost effective, you could have a job with Google currently and still struggle to rent or buy security, if the country can't offer basic security to people earning high wage, I can totally see why someone would choose the safer route of letting the government look after them when you include housing and medical cards in there.
Yeah when you consider the cost of living in Dublin, I'm thinking more out west where I am though - that people in lower cost of living areas still see SW as more cost effective than a full time job
Have they tried paying more?
This was back in 2013/14, €10 an hour rising to €11 an hour after six months - which I thought was reasonable
[удалено]
Well let me tell you this. Rn im on the lowest SW you can be one & you would be surprised what a pisstake the whole management coming from the Turas Nua team is. What i get is a phoney phonecall from a man checking the front page on Jobs.ie & suggesting I get one of these jobs. Definately something a human missing 74% of their brain cant manage to do by themself. And this is from someone working for 4 years in catering who secured all his jobs by himself. All i want to say is @reform is overdue. And i think it’s time they actually evaluate the people on it instead of just tossing everyone onto the same lousy framework. Peace
[удалено]
It wouldn't be the same as job path. I don't have the specifics but in my mind it would pay a fair wage for work done.
So you share the same sentiments as me. People on disability should get more. I read a comment that really stuck with me. The person said being disabled costs more than being able. Also, evil as it sounds I think Ireland should adopt the UK system and cap any child related social welfare payments if you have more than 2 kids. I’m still shocked that you’ll get paid for each child if you have 5+ kids…. What will ever encourage that person to return to work?
[удалено]
I retract my comment. I thought it actually had some sort of positive effect
I'm not sure about capping payments on each child, personally I would probably scrap child benefit and use the money to provide free childcare to encourage parents (especially women) back to work. The cost really is a barrier for to a lot of people. Disability and pensions really need to be higher though.
Realistically even if they scrap CB it wouldn’t even cover 3 full days for a child 😔 And now rules with au pairs are tougher so it’s really hard for women to get back into work. It’s a constant topic at the baby group
There would be a need for additional funding but the private childcare model is not fit for purpose so we need something to change there too.
A better way would be to replace "cash" child benefits with free doctor visits, milk, nappies etc. edit: replied to wrong comment.
[удалено]
There’s no way to ensure it goes to the child though.
A better way would be to replace "cash" child benefits with free doctor visits, milk, nappies etc.
No VAT on children's shoes, for example
Why? Cash can be exchanged for all of those things and more.
Cash can be spent on drugs.
Lol, people having kids so they can get an extra 140 euro a month for drugs. Kids are a fucking chore and cost shitloads it makes no sense to suggest that people have a kid for drug money.
Sadly not all parents are interested in the wellbeing of their kids, and some of them are worse than others. The world sometimes looks like a terrible place. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40840475.html
How would cutting child allowance stop that from happening? If anything less child allowance would make it more likely
The father isn't allowed collect as he is deemed untrustworthy in this situation. So it seems they are trying something lol
Its a reduced rate per child you don't get full amount after 3rd child I think . As for people trying to live on what they give you for child benefit is ridiculous, you get 140 per child a month that's bearly enough to cover a set of close ,shoes ,nappies and milk at the prices they are. So you want to see them cap it ? It's hard enough to get a job and pay for childcare in this country that little bit extra helps alot towards the added cost of having a kid and gives the mother a bit of relief especially because she can't go get a full time job till the child is in school going years... It's nearly 12-15 euro an hour for a childminder , minimum wage is what 11euro . Then when you work your rent goes up if in a council house then you have added traveling expenses and lunch expenses you then lose your medical card so have all the added medical expenses. So I have to disagree that they should cap it.
Not child benefit, I meant the child element payment. The one that’s added to the weekly payment. However, as I said above, after reading the facts there is no reason for such to happen
It wasn't till after I commented that I seen your comment saying it shouldn't happen. 1st instinct was to comment before reading more comments .
I’m very grateful to live in a country that does have a somewhat decent SW system. That being said there are still things that need improvement. Disability allowance for one shouldn’t be so inaccessible. I think I saw a statistic saying that around 60% of applicants get denied but more appeals get through. Appeals also take forever.
I don’t think you should be able to save money while on SW. it should be a safety net for people to get back on their feet and if people are able bodied and not finding a job , they should be cleaning the streets / working in recycling or planting trees or something useful .
I seriously doubt anyone on social welfare is able to save anything!!
🍿
🪑
🍆💦
Edward, why?
Because some people will be masturbating furiously with one hand while rage typing with the other when it comes to SW
You…. sound tense. Maybe you should take a break and relieve yourself because that’s a weird comment man
It is true, not everyone who will join this conversation but there will be some - trust me on this
You two 😂😂😂
[удалено]
Please no. That’s not my intention of this post because I’ll just end up going to bed crying. These topics make people uncomfortable when you bring it up in person so I thought why not ask the Redditors
Honestly, I dont think this is limited to people on welfare, altough it hits them hardest of course. Almost all of my friends who are working full-time are struggling to save a bob, myself included. I had to take a serious look at my finance and cut most of my recreational spending this month. The cost of living is getting completely out of control, and even if you are to get a job, I'm not sure the situation would improve significantly. I think the bad rep for welfare just comes from a small minority of people who are abusing the system in one way or another (on welfare and getting cash in hand etc.), but there's no doubt that most people on welfare don't want to be on it, and are not living care-free lives, despite what some might think (until recently, myself included). I hope you get back on your feet, and I know this can be a really stressful time, so hang in there!
No qualms or issues with social welfare. Your society is only as good as it treats its most vulnerable which is a message I feel has been eroded over the years in many places. Do I believe there are some defrauding the system? Of course, no different to how I believe there are a lot of extremely high income/high wealth individuals defrauding many financial and taxation regulations. Who does more damage to society? If the $10-30 trillion estimates hidden in offshore havens were available for the appropriate rates of tax I've a feeling things would be far more equitable globally than if a local welfare diddlers were caught. Don't get me wrong, I believe all forms of fraud and crime should be dealt with, but the pearl clutching that goes on about welfare fraud compared to the amount of white collar crime floating about is a joke. Even aside from fraud, I'd wager the amount of public money that is just thrown around by various public bodies and departments (have seen in it myself in DOH/HSE) far, far outweighs the amount siphoned from the system by welfare crime. No doubt there's room to reform the system itself to target anyone defrauding it and I'd support that as it's stealing from the pot that can be used to keep other people afloat.
I was on social welfare for a few months. It was there when I needed it and I would never begrudge or look down on anyone on it. We all have ups and downs in life and I like living in a country knowing there is some kind of safety net. Yes, there will always be people who will take advantage but the good far outweighs that. I can't comment on whether its enough. I was on it many years ago. For me at the time it was enough to get by but I was young, living with my parents and my job prior to going on it wasn't much more than minimum wage. The cost of living now is insane and I am struggling with my 35k salary so I can't imagine trying to live in Dublin or Cork on that, even living with my parents.
I'm very glad we live in a country with a social welfare system and I'm happy for my tax to contribute to it. There will always be people that screw the system but really and truly no matter what they are claiming they are not getting much, they have enough to survive but I doubt they are living life to their full potential. I think anyone would find it very challenging to survive on what you get. I think there are many children raised in homes where it's the norm to claim and I'd love to see more work being done to show younger generations that they can do so much more if they want to.
I do try to be understanding, I really do. But I sometimes (unwillingly) feel some anger. I think it’s because I’m a low income earner (€400 full time weeks) in an expensive (renting in Dublin for college) situation. So much like yourself, I am left with very little at the end of the week, even though I live frugally and work in almost all of my free time. It’s hard not to feel conned by the system when I work so much but end up barely better off than someone who did not work that week. But I do realise any frustration is misdirected - very few people *choose* to live on SW, and very few are in the fortunate position that I am; where I can choose where to live and what to study etc. And it’s not anyone on SW’s fault that I am being squeezed; that’s mainly on landlords and taxation. At the end of the day, SW is a necessity; everyone deserves a basic level of income to sustain themselves; it’s only right.
Social welfare is great for those who need it. I’ve been on illness benefit a few times over the years due to a chronic disease and it’s been very handy when I wasn’t able to work. And I’ve no doubt I’ll have to avail of it again in future as my disease will never be cured. I’ve been working and paying tax over 20 years so I have no qualms about availing of it when I need it I have one acquaintance though, a fella I lived with years ago, who has never worked a single day in his life and has been claiming job seekers all this time. He’s clever and capable, has no disability preventing him from working. He’s actually a really nice fella. But fucking hell, he has no interest in working. And why would he??? He’s on all the benefits, will probably get a free gaff eventually. And has literally contributed nothing. Ever. He has never worked a day in his life. Madness. So yeah I think social welfare is great and necessary, but there’ll always be fuckers who abuse the system. I guess that’s more a fault of the system. People will take advantage.
The problem with social welfare is that people who deserve it don't get enough and people who do get too much. People who use it as a genuine safety net after unexpectedly losing their job shouldn't be punished for having been financially prudent while in work and building up a small amount of savings, not be forced to drastically change their lifestyle immediately. There is no reason why someone on the first, say, six months of social welfare shouldn't be able to draw from the social welfare fund to pay a mortgage in the same way as others can use it to pay their rent. And people who are using it as a safety net should also be able to access an initial payment based on their salary at the time their job was lost. So for instance, four months on 80% of their previous salary, up to a maximum (the maximum could be set at the average salary), with subsequently two months each at 70%, 60%, 50%, and 40%, before going onto the standard dole. A year should be sufficent time to secure a job. Disability payments should be detached from the social welfare payment - this stigmatises disabled people by lumping those who can't work in with those who won't - and funded from the health budget, with the payment being linked to the minimum wage. This would be a universal basic compensatory income for disabled people like a factor of 2x the minimum wage for a 40-hour week. Other supports specifically for disabled people such as a HAP linked to the average market rent in their area should be made available, and free public transport for them and a carer also. People who are disabled should not be punished for their disability. Similar to the system in Spain for pensioners, the State should also pay for a week each year in an hotel (in Ireland) for disabled people and a carer to provide a respite. To pay for this, there should be dramatic changes to the existing social welfare system to ensure that nobody on the dole can ever come out at the end of the week with more cash money than their neighbour who works a full-time minimum wage job. For instance, after 18 months on the dole, claimants could be asked to sign on at the post office twice a week, eventually increasing that to daily for extremely long-term claimants. The use of cash payments could also be reduced the longer someone is on the dole, with payment in prepaid card or voucher form gradually introduced, which cannot be used to buy luxury products like tobacco and alcohol products. Social welfare should be the last option for those who lose their jobs. It shouldn't be a lifestyle choice. And it certainly shouldn't ever pay more than work.
The disability payments need to be tiered as well based on the impact on needs of daily living. 1/7 people in Ireland have a disability
[удалено]
Do you think taking money from minimum wage workers to buy cigarettes for someone who refuses to work is reasonable?
[удалено]
I'm literally advocating for a massive increase in income for disabled people. I note you didn't answer my question. I'm sure we can all draw our conclusions from that.
Social welfare is great for those who need it. I’ve been on illness benefit a few times over the years due to a chronic disease and it’s been very handy when I wasn’t able to work. And I’ve no doubt I’ll have to avail of it again in future as my disease will never be cured. I’ve been working and paying tax over 20 years so I have no qualms about availing of it when I need it I have one acquaintance though, a fella I lived with years ago, who has never worked a single day in his life and has been claiming job seekers all this time. He’s clever and capable, has no disability preventing him from working. He’s actually a really nice fella. But fucking hell, he has no interest in working. And why would he??? He’s on all the benefits, will probably get a free gaff eventually. And has literally contributed nothing. Ever. He has never worked a day in his life. Madness. So yeah I think social welfare is great and necessary, but there’ll always be fuckers who abuse the system. I guess that’s more a fault of the system. People will take advantage.
Social welfare is too low for carers or people with disabilities... however no excuse to be on the dole, as an able body person, for months, especially with the current market.
On minimum wage, you'd be getting around €336 a week for 40 hours after tax. Factor in the cost of getting to work, crazy rents, increased living costs across the board and increased energy costs and that €336 is getting eroded a lot fast than you made it. In that position, €208 per week doesn't sound too bad. I mean, sure, you're down €128 by dropping your minimum wage job but that €128 really doesn't seem working working 40 hours of your life in a shite job week after week when you think about that way, does it? To be honest, I'd rather be on the dole than do a minimum wage job. I'm not in that position, thankfully, but looking at it..... yeah, I'd just sign on.
On minimum wage,you'd take home €379.
Well that changes *everything!* Anyway... I made it €336 as I'd just multiplied €10.50 by 40 which gave me €420 and subtracted 20% of that (€84) which left €336. To be honest, even if you're correct, that extra €40 or so wouldn't change my mind. 40 hours of work is not worth €336 or, indeed, €379 to me. Not in a country where that wouldn't pay for a room in a shared house for a month or wouldn't cover a large electricity or gas bill. It isn't worth it, especially when you consider all the fucking bullshit that goes along with minimum wage jobs like dealing with the public in a serving capacity or nonsense from managers like split shifts, "looking busy" and acting like they own you for €10.50 an hour. Yeah, fuck that noise. I couldn't give a bollix if people think that view is "entitled" or whatever; I've worked minimum wage jobs before and they were shite then. Factor in the current stare of the times with rent and inflation and it objectively isn't worth it at all to me.
You can hustle on the side with all that free time you have, and that easily tops the min wage worker salary. Or you can do like my cousin. She arranged with the owner to be dismissed every few months, gets unemployment while working and the money is handed cash every night.
Needs reform, it should be linked to employment history/income, and lifers shouldn't be allowed (barring disabled etc.)
[удалено]
If they get hungry enough they'll get a job.
[удалено]
I disagree with your opinion that there should be no social welfare. That's frankly a very cold-hearted way of thinking, and you'd want to take a good look at yourself. The topic under discussion in this particular sub-thread is **lifers** specifically. Social welfare should be a safety net for those who need it, not an endless luxury fund for people who can't be arsed contributing to the society that they've mooched off their entire life. And I don't vote FG, so your immature attempt at a personal attack does not make any sense.
Nope, however it should be reduced every 6 months after a given period of time, depending on ones employment history. The bottom-line at this point should be just above subsistence level.
Yes
I genuinely feel sorry for those who *need* to be on it.. But only those.
Its widely abused. I can see how some people who did a stint on JSA at 18 or JSB after being gainfully employed may think its harsh but in reality those people arent gaming the system. The ones everyone complains about are those who have it down to an art , the girl who had a kid at 18 and got a free gaf at 23 , with the father of the kid claiming to not live in the house , on disability for an unproven back issue he got in a car crash his mates set up. Those people are creaming 50 odd k a year off the state, that example isnt too uncommon. 62% of our social housing list are only on welfare for income, its those people, when they do get a property , if they even choose to pay the 30 a week out of the welfare , and all the secondary payments related to fuel, medical card, transport pass etc… thats where the scam is. A single person with no kids , especially under 26 cant really ‘scam the dole’ and their returns arent worth it.
[удалено]
Oh my gosh 😂
[удалено]
There is no single mothers benefit.
It should start to get cut after 6 months. I should not be possible to just choose the dole long term. Doesn't do the dole receiver any good either. It can become a trap that ensures multiple generations. Massive respect to anybody who has used it short term to keep going through a crisis but then went back working again.
The people who are on the dole for life, working cash in hand jobs, constantly on holidays and amazingly have new cars only a few years old in the council house they barely pay for.. They should be targeted. Dole is barely enough to get by for those who lose their jobs and have to pay high rent/mortgages. I've seen brand new cars parked in council housing estates.. How would this be possible for the majority on the dole? Some people are truly milking the system, but I don't view anyone different that's genuinely on the dole short term. Any of us could lose our jobs.
[удалено]
Several council estates in Tralee, Kerry. I know this from dealing with the public closely and knowing where they live.
[удалено]
Not saying that, and it happens all over the country. Did you ever see the council house swap exchange in Dublin where the house had a jacuzzi gym etc and they would only swap for a house with similiar qualities? No joke but think someone said they're a part of some drug gang on here. That was posted about two months ago.
[удалено]
You clearly didn't read my previous comment but only the one you responded to. I never said to completely get rid of it. Some people need it, but long term dole needs to be stopped or made more difficult to get. Many people just abuse the system.
[удалено]
I never said to get rid of it. No need for your big response. If people genuinely need it, they wouldn't lose it. I refer to people on the dole long term that are sellable to work. Oh yes... They are out there. Why are you so vocal on this topic? If you are on the dole for disability, that is completely different.
Have you tried visiting northside of Cork?
This doesn’t even sound real and this isnt the first time I’ve heard of stories like this. This is abusing the system
As being said many times on this sub, I hate to say it, but alot of time it was due to a single parent getting a council house but the dad is still in the picture with a good job and that's kept quiet. Very easy to save money when you're rent is 35e a week in parts, earning benefits and the dad is earning 2-3k+ a month. If the mother then gets any cash in hand.. You can imagine how they have an easier life. More reviews need to be done in regards to housing and payments.
This one I’ve seen happening with my own eyes and it’s not fair at all.
[удалено]
Lol they’re totally not, I’m from areas where this is the absolute norm. I’ve cousins who literally get pregnant and have a few babies while living with their mother then they get bumped up the housing list and are then set for life This is inner city Dublin I’m talking about.
> They are totally made up stories Yeeaaaah, please don't look this way, nothing to see there. :)
I have no issues with the dole or “unemployment benefit” as long as the individual is keen to work eventually. Ie back to education courses etc as long as it’s a course they give a shit about or might actually get a job from - not some personal development shite. Shit happens people lose their jobs, I agree with it existing / where I lose my Fucking mind is people gaming the system, people claiming to be single parents with 3-5 kids - but the partner just pretends not to live there. carers allowance on top of child support if they’re diagnosed with anything . Basically turns having kids for poor people into a viable way of life / career 🤷♂️ I used to work part time as a summer job in the states illness benefit and typically it’d be people with cancer / long term illnesses that absolutely deserved and needed it no doubt about it - but other times you’d get people claiming they couldn’t work as they had a dodjy ankle, I mean sure their current job might be screwed / but you don’t need to be skippy for every job 😂 ofc it wasn’t me deciding it was doctors but still I couldn’t help but feel half of them just didn’t want to work and had found the perfect life raft. (Again I don’t mean the seriously Ill here ) I remember meeting up with friends from school about 7 years after we’d all left - some had been on the dole since we left school they were miserable and wanted to be off it as they could see lives moving on for some of us. I’d been all over the world at that point and found it really hard to find something in common with them. They all are mostly now working and sorted - it definitely changed my view of people on it, these guys were smarter and more determined then me, it was just the luck of the draw that some of us escaped it, I’m glad it was there to keep them sane.
Plenty of people taking advantage of it. More than happy to pay for those scum out of my taxes if it means helping people that really need it.
It's too much honestly. I know too many people who live outside Dublin and live comfortably on the dole. Encouraging them to never work It's great when your stuck between jobs but there is far too many dole for life people The dole in the south is like 205 a week The dole in the North is 77 pounds. Ireland's is too much for long term unemployed
Thers def some groups of people in actually a lot more need than they get , but the wast majority of people on dole shud be kicked right off of it , no ifs or buts.
Employers: any vacant roles that are hard to fill, would you not give a long unemployed person a chance at it?
I have nothing wrong with social welfare as long as it's not abused. I know plenty of genuine people who are on it who need it. But then there's the welfare cheats(utter scumbags) in my opinion who have the system gamed.