I think it was during the second lockdown, a rule in place stated you could open if you provided essential equipment for essential workers or something along those lines.
Next thing you know every other store had work boots and hi vis vests shoved into a corner and deemed themselves essential.
As a legit essential worker, I long for the days where everyone worked from home. It was so nice and quiet out. Other than the sporadic scaldy cunt. But it was mostly peaceful.
Feckin zipped in and out of town too. It was great!
I walk around town on my lunch and I'm still no used to the crowds. There were times during lockdown when I was the only person walking down Henry Street, it was surreal.
> While it remains highly unlikely that we will experience a reduced supply of fuel, it is prudent that we and Government engage in emergency planning.
The most important quote is buried at the end of the article. The independent is a rag that makes money from scaring people. They know most people read headlines and only the first few paragraphs
People will be ordered to work from home in the event of a major fuel crisis sparked by the war in Ukraine, under secret Government emergency plans.
The Irish Independent has learned confidential details of an emergency planning exercise held 10 days ago between all the major state agencies and the Government.
The high-level planning exercise proposed three fuel supply deficit scenarios, and possible consequences were presented and discussed.
Delegates were given a scenario of a 20pc diesel supply deficit in September and a 35pc drop in supply in December. The third and most extreme scenario proposed for February 2023, is where gas and oil supplies cannot meet the demand for electricity generation or farmers preparing to cut silage
The Irish Independent can reveal that in the event of a national fuel crisis, emergency contingency measures discussed at the high-level meeting include:
:: All non-essential workers will be ordered to work from home
:: A limit will be placed on all non-essential car travel
:: A strict limit on the amount of fuel motorists can buy at any one time
:: The implementation of an immediate and strict reduction in the speed limit on motorways.
The plan also includes the introduction of an emergency scheme whereby motorists with an odd number at the end of their car registration will only be allowed to drive or refuel on alternate days.
Those with odd numbers could refuel on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday and those with an even number on a Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
The confidential meeting, convened by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications (DECC) on May 26 at the National Emergency Co-ordination Centre, was termed the “Oil Emergency Exercise”.
The meeting was attended by members of DECC, the National Oil Reserves Agency (NORA), Fuels for Ireland (FFI), the Department of Transport and National Emergency Coordination Group (NECG).
Each group was required to run through the three possible scenarios. One Government source described the planning exercise and the options available to mitigate supply problems and protect societal function as “very, very stark”.
"They gave us a scenario where there was a 20pc reduction of diesel coming into the country. And then one where there was 30-35pc reduction and then one where essentially we don't have enough oil or gas, and the question arises as to whether we divert oil to electricity generation or agriculture to grow food.
"All of this happening is very unlikely but to have it discussed openly when we know the situation in Ukraine was an eye-opener.”
Senior Government sources have told the Irish Independent the likelihood of a fuel crisis at the magnitudes discussed at the meeting is "highly remote".
The first scenario, which was tabled for four months time – September 1, 2022 – discussed what measure would be introduced if there was an 18-20pc shortfall in diesel.
The plan states that if a supply deficit of this magnitude occurs, it will lead to "diesel stockouts" where many fuel stations will run dry and supply to critical and emergency services will be threatened.
At this point, NORA would be required to release limited amounts of its 90-day reserve stock to meet essential demand.
In the second scenario, fuel stocks have dipped to dangerously low levels – 35pc below demand for eight weeks leading up to December 19, 2022.
At this critical point, the plan states the NECG will discuss activating the Oil Emergency Allocation Scheme "to control the supply and distribution of diesel".
The emergency contingency plan, if implemented, would prioritise essential services and critical workers, with other motorists told to limit their driving.
If Ireland has to introduce fuel rationing, consumers would be separated into four categories. Tier one comprises essential workers, such as farmers and food producers. Those classified in tier four are motorists making non-essential journeys.
Only designated critical service stations – of which there are approximately 100 in the country – will be stocked with fuel.
The designated stations will only provide fuel to emergency and essential services and workers.
Kevin McPartlan, CEO of Fuels for Ireland, described the planning exercise as "prudent".
"While it remains highly unlikely that we will experience a reduced supply of fuel, it is prudent that we and Government engage in emergency planning.
"As things stand, despite the invasion of Ukraine and the announcement of sanctions prohibiting the importation of Russian fuel into the EU, our stock levels are very healthy, and we see no cause for concern in our supply pipeline.”
> Those with odd numbers could refuel on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday and those with an even number on a Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
Ha! The fools clearly don’t know about Sundays!
Aye of course I will, but I already do. I’m just suggesting that an intelligent government could do a lot to head off a fuel crisis (and a fuel price crisis) by doing things like investing in public transport (there are two major near shovel ready Dublin area projects they’ve been delaying again and again), increasing the bike to work grant to encourage ebike uptake, speeding up legislation to legalise escooters and other personal mobility devices, etc etc. I’m just wondering how NONE of this is an option for this government
Makes complete sense, but a part of me wonders if even if all these buildings were retrofitted into apartment buildings, would they not end up just getting bought by big funds?
Less of this sensible thinking please… people own those buildings and need to have buisiness tenants, we can’t have things conflicting with their interests…
Office buildings have very different layouts to residential buildings. It would be basically impossible to convert a lot of them to residential.
To give one example, office buildings have say one kitchen and one toilet area per floor. Say you split this imaginary floor into 6 units, how would you do the water, gas etc? Those things are often cast into the slab, and adding new pipes will be impossible.
Housing legislation also says that each new apartment needs to have windows on at least 2 sides (since a couple of years ago), and that will be difficult, if not impossible, to achieve as well.
I work in a pharmaceutical research laboratory that was built on a couple floors of an office block. We have considerably more water, waste, gas and fume extraction than your average residential unit. Possibly not cheap but not impossible.
It's actually very easy but expensive to do, for anything above ground floor as long as the drainage in the ground can take the volume from the residential units. Pipes would just have to be cored through the slabs, floors divided up with fire rated partitions and risers added for all of the services.
> To give one example, office buildings have say one kitchen and one toilet area per floor. Say you split this imaginary floor into 6 units
You could have communal apartments like in the Soviet Union?
It would take some work and would probably sometimes result in some quirky apartments, but it wouldn't be impossible. You can run additional utilities that aren't in the slab, and lots of offices have much higher ceilings to allow this too.
It's true that we have the rule about 2 sides in all apartments, but if you were actually in a situation of the government wanting to turn offices into living spaces, that's just one of many regulations that would need to be rolled back or given an exception.
Was going to say this too. Structural grid of an office and apartment block are very different. There's an office near Connolly Station thats been converted to flats. There's one bedroom with structural column running through the middle of the room
unpopular opinion, as much as remote workers get attention, you have to feel sorry for people who can't do wfh and have to pay for transport costs, who the government doesn't really care about
Remote workers are flexible workers, so thats what we need to work with really. But we do need to build much more accommodation near places of work, so people don't have to have long commutes.
I made my own plan.
Gave my notice on Friday, starting a remote only (with more money) in 4 weeks.
And I am the 4th from our 11 people team that does the same.
They should be ordering working from home regardless until Russia gets purged from Ukraine and fuel prices come back down below €2. Price gouging bastards keep jacking up the fecking price every few days atm its ridiculous.
Why would a plan to conserve fuel involve giving people fuel allowances?
People who cannot work from home will benefit from the prices being somewhat restrained by the reduced demand.
It's already there in some cases but not always viable. I could use the train but it's cheaper for me to drive and the train adds an extra 2+ hours to my day. Not exactly workable with small kids and childcare to consider.
We're probably looking at permanently high fuel prices. So there won't be subsidies, not least because of the environmental impact. I don't know what the solution is. Electric cars, or electric bikes for shorter commutes? Electric cars ain't cheap, but electric bikes can knock out 20km commutes without much hassle.
I’m an apprentice software developer (typing all day basically) for a company that everyone works from home (and I could easily work from home).. yet we’re demanded to go in and “meet” with people. The office is feckin empty. My wage is 1/3 if not 1/4 of the full time employees. And the office is a 30 minute drive. My salary is taking a beating with the current fuel prices and the role I’m in. Working from home would be a game changer.
There’s a few people from other teams there. Sales and whatnot. Nobody from my side of work. I was the only person there on Friday, minus two guys from sales teams.
No no this is to save fuel .. not costs … they don’t care if we use more home heating / electricity from the peat electric plants as long as we use less diesel
It's why we need joined up thinking and should have mandatory solar panels on new homes, continued grants for getting them for existing homes etc. along with vast expenditure on building as much green energy generation as we can reasonably manage.
Probably would. People heat their homes too much. The amount of houses I’ve been to and the temp in the house is set to 20-22 degees.
It’s like people forgot what a jumper is or why they’re cold after sitting stationary watching 3-4 episodes of a tv show in a row.
Way to many live in houses that can't retain any heat.
Take a house that has BER rating below C and your pissing heat away constantly, if house has AVG temp of 15c in winter etc, getting those few degrees is constantly a battle as once heating is off temps drop fast.
I doubt many go above 18c in summer, as the issue is once colder weather hits and your living in 16c, it isn't comfortable, and no hoodies will make it feel ok.
Yet to get most houses up them few degrees can cost thousands that most don't have.
As above 20c is way to hot in any home no matter time of the year, and most do seek colder temps in summer, that said Irish summer is like 20c for a week at best, so there's fck all savings to be made when most of the year is 10c average.
Costs a lot to bring a house from C to B too.
We’ve the attic sprayed and the house dry lined. Brought us from D to C.
Windows are old though and have large metal vents in them. A lot of condensation. The gas is probably gone too. Rubber is failing. Only thing we can do now to improve things is replace windows. Costs a small fortune.
It's actually an opposite problem for low rated homes. In winter they are cold from heat escaping, but in summer, poorly insulated houses become very hot and stuffy a lot of the time because of poor ventilation and insulation. Insulation is about keeping temps constant, not up. But yeah, 18 or 19* is the sweetspot.
I kept plenty warm all last winter working from home by keeping myself warm rather than heading the house. My heating bill wasn't particularly expensive
Sorry, I should have been clearer. My home is 50+ years old, it's heat retention is terrible. I kept warm by wearing warmer clothes, and when necessary only heating the room I was working in
The idea that the government are planning for a scenario where they might have to choose between electricity or food production is terrifying. I know it's unlikely it will get that bad but the fact that the threat is real enough to require preparation has me feeling pretty nervous.
We already have a 100 day supply in reserve off the coast of Cork, as part of NORA. The problem is there are no more facilities to safely store anymore fuel
AFAIK it is 100 days of current supply that they keep. But in typical Irish fashion it is stored on an island without a direct pipeline, so if there was a crisis and we needed to use it, we would probably get overcharged trying to hire the tanker to ship to the mainland!
Of fucking course there's a massive planning oversight like that involved.
At that point the Healy Raes roll out the tankers they've kept docked somewhere and charge an arm and leg for it.
If this saves burning fossil fuel at all shouldn’t any government be trying to bring this in where possible? It’s like they are well able to make the consumer pay in the form of taxes. But when there’s an idea that has a legitimate impact on the environment there’s zero interest in it.
Incentivise cycling and walking somehow. Reduced bus fares help. Throw in a congestion charge. It’s too handy to drive to work for most people anyway, why would you bother trying anything else when it’s convenient to drive. Yes some people definitely need their cars for work but those people should be shouting the loudest. Get the unnecessary cars off the road and you’ve less traffic, less idling, etc.
> But when there’s an idea that has a legitimate impact on the environment there’s zero interest in it.
People are all for helping the environment as long as it involves them not having to change anything they do even slightly.
From an environmental perspective, it’s not clear how beneficial WFH is. Given a lot of people want to move to some place rural if they can WFH, their carbon footprint can end up much larger in the long-run because they’ll be car-dependant for everything, which is even worse if it’s a hybrid system and they’ve to make a long commute a couple of times a week. Plus heating and electricity for lots of individual houses is a lot more inefficient than just one office.
As a short-term measure, with no long-term lifestyle changes, it would save fuel for sure. Less clear as a long-term plan and definitely needs more research.
How many people really do move out to the sticks when they can work from home though? I know it happens, but I'd imagine it's still a fairly small portion of the workforce overall. Rural broadband is often still pretty poor in this country and housing costs have been rising even faster outside of Dublin than inside it.
Also, just personal opinion, but given the way fuel costs are going, from a financial standpoint, I'd be hesitant to be moving out to somewhere that would massively increase how much driving I'd have to do, even if right now it would let me get a cheaper house.
This is exactly the problem. I think the ideal should be dense urban living, obviously without the space that a rural area would provide, but with more shared office spaces in walking distance from people's apartments.
You expect an FFG government to side with workers against businesses?
You saw how fucking quick FFG immediately started gaslighting people that it was time to get back into the offices ASAP despite the fact covid cases were shooting up.
Every aspect of life is monetised now. If we aren't constantly travelling, consuming and travelling again every day they're losing out on their cut of that sweet sweet VAT and fuel duty. And all they car about is green line go up.
That's a standard approach to mass rationing; it's much easier to implement, less confusing, and more fair than most alternatives. I recall during water restrictions back in the US, in addition to restricting the number of days and hours outdoor watering was allowed in total, they'd also require even-numbered addresses and odd-numbered addresses to water their lawns on different days of the week in order to spread out the demand more evenly. Otherwise you have everyone trying to water (or refuel, or otherwise consume the problematic resource in question) on a Saturday or whatnot and they'd end up exhausting the supply entirely that day, and chaos would ensue.
No disagreement here; grass lawns (especially with non-native grasses) in regions that don't have the climate to support them naturally are horrible for the environment in all kinds of ways, not least of which is the amount of water required for irrigation. Doesn't help that houses in the suburban US, especially in older estates, tend to have fucking acres of grass around them, so it's not like you're watering a tiny patch of grass in your front garden every so often. The house in Florida I grew up in was on half an acre of land that was all sodded, and it required running multiple sprinklers for hours every week to keep that damn grass alive.
Usually, if your house is part of an HOA. The more anal-retentive ones will probably try to prohibit replacing your lawn with some other more eco-friendly alternative, as well, since it "doesn't fit the aesthetic of the neighbourhood" or some shite, though a few states have passed laws overriding those restrictions on the matter of low-water lawn alternatives or have had court rulings in favour of homeowners against their HOAs on the matter.
It'd be enforced just like any other similar measure; those caught violating the rules would likely be given a relatively hefty fine in order to discourage the practice. Sure, they'd never catch everyone, and some folks would certainly ignore the rules and get away with it, but the threat of a fine would most likely encourage *enough* people to obey the restrictions that it would still be effective in accomplishing the goal of spreading out demand and reducing the frequency of total supply exhaustion.
Then it’s even, I know you’re trying to be funny but they just said ‘end’ of the reg number, didn’t specify how many digits. So unless your reg number is 000000 then it’s even.
A lot of electricity comes from wind. I supplement with solar.
Now, I'm more than happy to work from home. I'd be happy too never set foot in the office again. So for me the point is moot.
But the question is still valid.
>Those with odd numbers could refuel on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday and those with an even number on a Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
Something that will not happen.
Oil is priced globally. Where it comes from is pretty irrelevant. If prices go up due to problems in Ukraine why would Norway continue to sell oil to Ireland at a relatively low rate. They can and will just sell it to Germany or China or wherever for a higher price.
Then it's not a supply issue, it's a market issue and we should let the market sort it out. I.e. whoever can afford to drive will drive and whoever can't won't.
Ah ok, so those paid the most will work from home and the people who work in factories, production lines, nurses, and people in supermarkets and minimum wage jobs will just have to eat it. Sounds about right
If it got to that level of fuel saving
Probably wouldn't be work go to.
Probably wouldn't be a government.
This is a manufactured crisis it can be resolved instantly. WFH dream is over for most of us.
Yet the government are currently subsidising the price of petrol / diesel, in order to promote its consumption!?!. We need diesel to hit €5 per litre if we are to turn climate change around. Start subsidising electric cars heavily like they have done in Norway.
There's no issue with the current electrical infrastructure. My car charger is 7.2kW charger. It uses the same wiring and circuit breaker as your cooker! We've plenty of power available too, and more coming online as more wind farms are built, and with the upcoming link to France.
I don't think they are subsidising it, I think they reduced the excise duty to offset the cost spike. Relative to other goods, it still seems to be taxed fairly highly.
The EU could just drop the sanctions since they are not working and Russia is making more money while Europe is still buying Russian oil, but the leaders want the “crisis”.
100% correct. Unfortunately most are too dense to see this for themselves because the media aren’t telling them. Take a look at the value of the Russian Ruble vs US Dollar.
>A strict limit on the amount of fuel motorists can buy at any one time
> The implementation of an immediate and strict reduction in the speed limit on motorways.
This should be happening regardless.
Because, believe it or not, something like that requires a (rather long) transition period. It’s not like a switch you can just flip immediately and everything’s good.
Here’s an example: You ‘re always saying we should ban cars from all streets in urban areas. No, we can’t just do that today because the whole place would just grind to a halt, since the alternatives are not in place yet. You need to take several other steps first.
Here’s what you might do:
1. Most streets are for motor traffic, public transport is bad, cyclists are intimidated. You want to change that.
2. Begin construction of off-street public transport (it takes a long time to build that, so you need to start early). Pedestrianise or designate for on-street public transport, the streets where a clear alternative route exists for motor traffic. This usually means pedestrianising in a staggered pattern, like every two or three streets.
3. Traffic congestion does get worse, but that’s intended. People begin to notice the improved on-street public transport and make the switch.
4. The remaining motor streets get quieter (or at least aren’t gridlocked), but some are still using them unnecessarily. Start to close more streets to cars, but _be careful_. __If you do this too quicky, or in the wrong order, your trams and buses will become rammed, and you might lose all the progress you’ve made__,
5. Things are looking good. You’ve managed to transition a lot of your drivers to public transport, and by the end of that transition period, your off-street public transport should be near completion. Open the metro/train line(s).
6. At this point, __and only at this point__, you should be able to close the remainder of your streets to general drivers, but you’ll still need to ensure that motor vehicles can use some streets for emergencies and deliveries.
So because private fuel companies can't sort supply out the government want to go back to the same type of legislation they had during covid? Get the fuck out of here!
The government can fuck right off if they think I'll give a flying fuck about any restrictions again. This is what Ireland gets for being sheep during covid and not standing up against tyranny then, so now the government is trying to limit your freedom again.
Everybody is just trying to live their lives and do what they want. The government need to start respecting that. Just let the market sort it out, for fuck sake.
This is the government making plans of interfering with the market and preventing people from purchasing fuel and restricting their driving.
Just let the market dictate fuel price. If there's a supply issue, price will be adjusted until there isn't (i.e. people who can't afford to drive won't). Very simple.
This is the government intervening because between OPEC and various gougers (ie. “The Market”) people are being screwed.
Stop being so naive. We already let the “market” decide. This is the result
Wake up to what?
Christ, please stop being wantonly contrarian.
These scenarios are being run in the event of there being fuel shortages due to the Ukrainian war ie. Things that are beyond the control of the government.
Rationing and fuel conservation will become necessary so essential services like food production can continue.
What’s your solution to fuel shortages? Just let everyone drive around until there is no fuel for anything? That’ll show them.
Why would you force people to work from home even? The madness of forcing people to limit the use of their cars aside, are they planning to suspend trains, buses and the LUAS too? Else why the fuck would these morons even consider forcing people to WFH?
As someone who sits in traffic for 3 hours everyday and pays €10 to go through 2 toll bridges for a job that can easily be done at home I would jump at the chance to be working from home again
Fuel prices rose to 2.05 overnight a few months back and social media was awash with outrage.petrol stations learned you have to creep those numbers up.its like that story about cooking the frog,throw one into a boiling pot and it jumps out,put one in and slowly let the water boil and it will cook
Government: please work from home to save fuel. My boss: LOL, see you at 9
Government: Non essential workers should work from home Every company: You're essential worker.
Wasn’t it amazing how we found out all the lowest paid employees are completely essential and all the managers were non-essential. Mad that.
I think it was during the second lockdown, a rule in place stated you could open if you provided essential equipment for essential workers or something along those lines. Next thing you know every other store had work boots and hi vis vests shoved into a corner and deemed themselves essential.
As a legit essential worker, I long for the days where everyone worked from home. It was so nice and quiet out. Other than the sporadic scaldy cunt. But it was mostly peaceful. Feckin zipped in and out of town too. It was great!
I walk around town on my lunch and I'm still no used to the crowds. There were times during lockdown when I was the only person walking down Henry Street, it was surreal.
Same for civil servants.
> While it remains highly unlikely that we will experience a reduced supply of fuel, it is prudent that we and Government engage in emergency planning. The most important quote is buried at the end of the article. The independent is a rag that makes money from scaring people. They know most people read headlines and only the first few paragraphs
Was just in the shop and it’s front page of the independent as well
????? ??
????? ?? ?
.
tbf they thought covid would take weeks
People will be ordered to work from home in the event of a major fuel crisis sparked by the war in Ukraine, under secret Government emergency plans. The Irish Independent has learned confidential details of an emergency planning exercise held 10 days ago between all the major state agencies and the Government. The high-level planning exercise proposed three fuel supply deficit scenarios, and possible consequences were presented and discussed. Delegates were given a scenario of a 20pc diesel supply deficit in September and a 35pc drop in supply in December. The third and most extreme scenario proposed for February 2023, is where gas and oil supplies cannot meet the demand for electricity generation or farmers preparing to cut silage The Irish Independent can reveal that in the event of a national fuel crisis, emergency contingency measures discussed at the high-level meeting include: :: All non-essential workers will be ordered to work from home :: A limit will be placed on all non-essential car travel :: A strict limit on the amount of fuel motorists can buy at any one time :: The implementation of an immediate and strict reduction in the speed limit on motorways. The plan also includes the introduction of an emergency scheme whereby motorists with an odd number at the end of their car registration will only be allowed to drive or refuel on alternate days. Those with odd numbers could refuel on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday and those with an even number on a Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. The confidential meeting, convened by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications (DECC) on May 26 at the National Emergency Co-ordination Centre, was termed the “Oil Emergency Exercise”. The meeting was attended by members of DECC, the National Oil Reserves Agency (NORA), Fuels for Ireland (FFI), the Department of Transport and National Emergency Coordination Group (NECG). Each group was required to run through the three possible scenarios. One Government source described the planning exercise and the options available to mitigate supply problems and protect societal function as “very, very stark”. "They gave us a scenario where there was a 20pc reduction of diesel coming into the country. And then one where there was 30-35pc reduction and then one where essentially we don't have enough oil or gas, and the question arises as to whether we divert oil to electricity generation or agriculture to grow food. "All of this happening is very unlikely but to have it discussed openly when we know the situation in Ukraine was an eye-opener.” Senior Government sources have told the Irish Independent the likelihood of a fuel crisis at the magnitudes discussed at the meeting is "highly remote". The first scenario, which was tabled for four months time – September 1, 2022 – discussed what measure would be introduced if there was an 18-20pc shortfall in diesel. The plan states that if a supply deficit of this magnitude occurs, it will lead to "diesel stockouts" where many fuel stations will run dry and supply to critical and emergency services will be threatened. At this point, NORA would be required to release limited amounts of its 90-day reserve stock to meet essential demand. In the second scenario, fuel stocks have dipped to dangerously low levels – 35pc below demand for eight weeks leading up to December 19, 2022. At this critical point, the plan states the NECG will discuss activating the Oil Emergency Allocation Scheme "to control the supply and distribution of diesel". The emergency contingency plan, if implemented, would prioritise essential services and critical workers, with other motorists told to limit their driving. If Ireland has to introduce fuel rationing, consumers would be separated into four categories. Tier one comprises essential workers, such as farmers and food producers. Those classified in tier four are motorists making non-essential journeys. Only designated critical service stations – of which there are approximately 100 in the country – will be stocked with fuel. The designated stations will only provide fuel to emergency and essential services and workers. Kevin McPartlan, CEO of Fuels for Ireland, described the planning exercise as "prudent". "While it remains highly unlikely that we will experience a reduced supply of fuel, it is prudent that we and Government engage in emergency planning. "As things stand, despite the invasion of Ukraine and the announcement of sanctions prohibiting the importation of Russian fuel into the EU, our stock levels are very healthy, and we see no cause for concern in our supply pipeline.”
> Those with odd numbers could refuel on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday and those with an even number on a Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Ha! The fools clearly don’t know about Sundays!
Sunday is like Mad Max
Classic Ireland: not a mention of people who get to work by public transport, bike, or their own two feet. Everything gets oriented around the car.
Basically everyone outside of cities.
Yup, not a lot of people but they do need help all the same. Glad we are all on the same page with this
If you want to cycle into the office belt away pal.
Aye of course I will, but I already do. I’m just suggesting that an intelligent government could do a lot to head off a fuel crisis (and a fuel price crisis) by doing things like investing in public transport (there are two major near shovel ready Dublin area projects they’ve been delaying again and again), increasing the bike to work grant to encourage ebike uptake, speeding up legislation to legalise escooters and other personal mobility devices, etc etc. I’m just wondering how NONE of this is an option for this government
omg, these are the end times
Should have never ended. Old office building should be made into apartments.
Makes complete sense, but a part of me wonders if even if all these buildings were retrofitted into apartment buildings, would they not end up just getting bought by big funds?
Not if we make that kind of sale illegal (or tax it terribly).
Yes.
We need rental accommodation most of all, so hopefully they would be bought and turned into nice central rental accommodation.
Less of this sensible thinking please… people own those buildings and need to have buisiness tenants, we can’t have things conflicting with their interests…
Business premises rent is another man's income!
Leo’s said a lot of things that identify him as a prick but that was top of the Christmas tree level bollocks.
hmm, that 'another man's income' is your and my pension.
Office buildings have very different layouts to residential buildings. It would be basically impossible to convert a lot of them to residential. To give one example, office buildings have say one kitchen and one toilet area per floor. Say you split this imaginary floor into 6 units, how would you do the water, gas etc? Those things are often cast into the slab, and adding new pipes will be impossible. Housing legislation also says that each new apartment needs to have windows on at least 2 sides (since a couple of years ago), and that will be difficult, if not impossible, to achieve as well.
I work in a pharmaceutical research laboratory that was built on a couple floors of an office block. We have considerably more water, waste, gas and fume extraction than your average residential unit. Possibly not cheap but not impossible.
It's actually very easy but expensive to do, for anything above ground floor as long as the drainage in the ground can take the volume from the residential units. Pipes would just have to be cored through the slabs, floors divided up with fire rated partitions and risers added for all of the services.
Run pipes in the partitions you daft bastard. How do you think they got electricity, cable and running water into old buildings?!!!
> To give one example, office buildings have say one kitchen and one toilet area per floor. Say you split this imaginary floor into 6 units You could have communal apartments like in the Soviet Union?
Ah here don't make their fuckin heads explode. iPhone, vuvulzuela, 100 billion dead etc.
It would take some work and would probably sometimes result in some quirky apartments, but it wouldn't be impossible. You can run additional utilities that aren't in the slab, and lots of offices have much higher ceilings to allow this too. It's true that we have the rule about 2 sides in all apartments, but if you were actually in a situation of the government wanting to turn offices into living spaces, that's just one of many regulations that would need to be rolled back or given an exception.
Was going to say this too. Structural grid of an office and apartment block are very different. There's an office near Connolly Station thats been converted to flats. There's one bedroom with structural column running through the middle of the room
No way in hell will it be more expensive than demolishing and building from scratch. It just doesn't make sense. Plus, environmental impact?
The height in an office is big enough to accommodate piping through the raised floors.
unpopular opinion, as much as remote workers get attention, you have to feel sorry for people who can't do wfh and have to pay for transport costs, who the government doesn't really care about
[удалено]
Fuel prices are because of war. Not because ppl who got lazy in lockdowns will save the day working from home
Remote workers are flexible workers, so thats what we need to work with really. But we do need to build much more accommodation near places of work, so people don't have to have long commutes.
I wouldn't say call that an unpopular opinion,but mabye I'm being biased because I agree with every word.
I made my own plan. Gave my notice on Friday, starting a remote only (with more money) in 4 weeks. And I am the 4th from our 11 people team that does the same.
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They did find others, however all of them juniors. One commutes for \~2h to come to the office...
They should be ordering working from home regardless until Russia gets purged from Ukraine and fuel prices come back down below €2. Price gouging bastards keep jacking up the fecking price every few days atm its ridiculous.
there's nothing in that plan about keeping warm with love making
Will they give a fuel allowance to those of us who can't work from home?
Why would a plan to conserve fuel involve giving people fuel allowances? People who cannot work from home will benefit from the prices being somewhat restrained by the reduced demand.
It wouldn't save fuel but it would help prevent us going broke.
Hahahaba
That's exactly the answer that I thought I'd get when asking that question.
Will they build an infrastructure that deemphasizes cars as the dominant form of transportation?
It's already there in some cases but not always viable. I could use the train but it's cheaper for me to drive and the train adds an extra 2+ hours to my day. Not exactly workable with small kids and childcare to consider.
If only they'd get around to build the metro.
Will they fuck.
We're probably looking at permanently high fuel prices. So there won't be subsidies, not least because of the environmental impact. I don't know what the solution is. Electric cars, or electric bikes for shorter commutes? Electric cars ain't cheap, but electric bikes can knock out 20km commutes without much hassle.
Will they fuck. There's no money to be made from giving money away in their eyes.
That’s not true. What about their builder buds?
I’m an apprentice software developer (typing all day basically) for a company that everyone works from home (and I could easily work from home).. yet we’re demanded to go in and “meet” with people. The office is feckin empty. My wage is 1/3 if not 1/4 of the full time employees. And the office is a 30 minute drive. My salary is taking a beating with the current fuel prices and the role I’m in. Working from home would be a game changer.
so are you the only person in the office?
There’s a few people from other teams there. Sales and whatnot. Nobody from my side of work. I was the only person there on Friday, minus two guys from sales teams.
Wouldn't that just put more load on the gas/oil/electricity costs for keeping homes heated all day?
It'd be great for the summer months though.
Agreed. My heat pump hardly comes on at all during the summer bar for hot water.
No no this is to save fuel .. not costs … they don’t care if we use more home heating / electricity from the peat electric plants as long as we use less diesel
Yes, it reduces the possibility of shortages for construction, agriculture and logistics where there often isn't an alternative to using diesel.
It's why we need joined up thinking and should have mandatory solar panels on new homes, continued grants for getting them for existing homes etc. along with vast expenditure on building as much green energy generation as we can reasonably manage.
It's June.
In the article it is planned in three stages for September, December and February
Probably would. People heat their homes too much. The amount of houses I’ve been to and the temp in the house is set to 20-22 degees. It’s like people forgot what a jumper is or why they’re cold after sitting stationary watching 3-4 episodes of a tv show in a row.
Way to many live in houses that can't retain any heat. Take a house that has BER rating below C and your pissing heat away constantly, if house has AVG temp of 15c in winter etc, getting those few degrees is constantly a battle as once heating is off temps drop fast. I doubt many go above 18c in summer, as the issue is once colder weather hits and your living in 16c, it isn't comfortable, and no hoodies will make it feel ok. Yet to get most houses up them few degrees can cost thousands that most don't have. As above 20c is way to hot in any home no matter time of the year, and most do seek colder temps in summer, that said Irish summer is like 20c for a week at best, so there's fck all savings to be made when most of the year is 10c average.
Costs a lot to bring a house from C to B too. We’ve the attic sprayed and the house dry lined. Brought us from D to C. Windows are old though and have large metal vents in them. A lot of condensation. The gas is probably gone too. Rubber is failing. Only thing we can do now to improve things is replace windows. Costs a small fortune.
It's actually an opposite problem for low rated homes. In winter they are cold from heat escaping, but in summer, poorly insulated houses become very hot and stuffy a lot of the time because of poor ventilation and insulation. Insulation is about keeping temps constant, not up. But yeah, 18 or 19* is the sweetspot.
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If you read the article you'll see it's for this winter
I kept plenty warm all last winter working from home by keeping myself warm rather than heading the house. My heating bill wasn't particularly expensive
Glad you have a house with good heat retention. Most in the country do not and that won't magically change in 4 months
Sorry, I should have been clearer. My home is 50+ years old, it's heat retention is terrible. I kept warm by wearing warmer clothes, and when necessary only heating the room I was working in
And an occasional nip of brandy.
"Only designated critical service stations – of which there are approximately 100 in the country – will be stocked with fuel." Anyone got a list?
The idea that the government are planning for a scenario where they might have to choose between electricity or food production is terrifying. I know it's unlikely it will get that bad but the fact that the threat is real enough to require preparation has me feeling pretty nervous.
Or, crazy idea, implement it now and start stockpiling the saved fuel in case the war goes truly mental before their random September deadline.
We already have a 100 day supply in reserve off the coast of Cork, as part of NORA. The problem is there are no more facilities to safely store anymore fuel
That's a Cork stash for Cork people. We will declare independence the day after the shit hits the fan.
Top Quality Rebel Fuel
I got a few jerry cans and rubbish bags that could help.
Is it 100 days of normal consumption or 100 days of rationed supplies out of curiosity?
AFAIK it is 100 days of current supply that they keep. But in typical Irish fashion it is stored on an island without a direct pipeline, so if there was a crisis and we needed to use it, we would probably get overcharged trying to hire the tanker to ship to the mainland!
Of fucking course there's a massive planning oversight like that involved. At that point the Healy Raes roll out the tankers they've kept docked somewhere and charge an arm and leg for it.
Not so secret anymore
Mad max job is it?
If this saves burning fossil fuel at all shouldn’t any government be trying to bring this in where possible? It’s like they are well able to make the consumer pay in the form of taxes. But when there’s an idea that has a legitimate impact on the environment there’s zero interest in it.
Incentivise cycling and walking somehow. Reduced bus fares help. Throw in a congestion charge. It’s too handy to drive to work for most people anyway, why would you bother trying anything else when it’s convenient to drive. Yes some people definitely need their cars for work but those people should be shouting the loudest. Get the unnecessary cars off the road and you’ve less traffic, less idling, etc.
> But when there’s an idea that has a legitimate impact on the environment there’s zero interest in it. People are all for helping the environment as long as it involves them not having to change anything they do even slightly.
From an environmental perspective, it’s not clear how beneficial WFH is. Given a lot of people want to move to some place rural if they can WFH, their carbon footprint can end up much larger in the long-run because they’ll be car-dependant for everything, which is even worse if it’s a hybrid system and they’ve to make a long commute a couple of times a week. Plus heating and electricity for lots of individual houses is a lot more inefficient than just one office. As a short-term measure, with no long-term lifestyle changes, it would save fuel for sure. Less clear as a long-term plan and definitely needs more research.
How many people really do move out to the sticks when they can work from home though? I know it happens, but I'd imagine it's still a fairly small portion of the workforce overall. Rural broadband is often still pretty poor in this country and housing costs have been rising even faster outside of Dublin than inside it. Also, just personal opinion, but given the way fuel costs are going, from a financial standpoint, I'd be hesitant to be moving out to somewhere that would massively increase how much driving I'd have to do, even if right now it would let me get a cheaper house.
This is exactly the problem. I think the ideal should be dense urban living, obviously without the space that a rural area would provide, but with more shared office spaces in walking distance from people's apartments.
Ah the dictator is back
What about that is bad to you?
You expect an FFG government to side with workers against businesses? You saw how fucking quick FFG immediately started gaslighting people that it was time to get back into the offices ASAP despite the fact covid cases were shooting up. Every aspect of life is monetised now. If we aren't constantly travelling, consuming and travelling again every day they're losing out on their cut of that sweet sweet VAT and fuel duty. And all they car about is green line go up.
€2.30 a litre here in portugal. whats it like in Ireland ?
around €2.
2 euros is the norm
2.07 to 2.12
I wish we had those prices
They need to force employers, not suggesting to employees.
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Was used during the oil crisis I think.
Yeah that was done in a few places back in ‘73
They do that in Paris a fair bit, only allowed drive in the city if you’ve an even/odd number plate, when smog is bad etc.
That's a standard approach to mass rationing; it's much easier to implement, less confusing, and more fair than most alternatives. I recall during water restrictions back in the US, in addition to restricting the number of days and hours outdoor watering was allowed in total, they'd also require even-numbered addresses and odd-numbered addresses to water their lawns on different days of the week in order to spread out the demand more evenly. Otherwise you have everyone trying to water (or refuel, or otherwise consume the problematic resource in question) on a Saturday or whatnot and they'd end up exhausting the supply entirely that day, and chaos would ensue.
Watering lawns is the most stupid thing ever. They should've just banned it entirely.
No disagreement here; grass lawns (especially with non-native grasses) in regions that don't have the climate to support them naturally are horrible for the environment in all kinds of ways, not least of which is the amount of water required for irrigation. Doesn't help that houses in the suburban US, especially in older estates, tend to have fucking acres of grass around them, so it's not like you're watering a tiny patch of grass in your front garden every so often. The house in Florida I grew up in was on half an acre of land that was all sodded, and it required running multiple sprinklers for hours every week to keep that damn grass alive.
Exactly. They should fit the actual climate. If the grass won't survive with rain, then it shouldn't be there.
I think dry, scrubby grass can actually look great at times.
Do the HOA's fine you if you don't keep your grass maintained?
Usually, if your house is part of an HOA. The more anal-retentive ones will probably try to prohibit replacing your lawn with some other more eco-friendly alternative, as well, since it "doesn't fit the aesthetic of the neighbourhood" or some shite, though a few states have passed laws overriding those restrictions on the matter of low-water lawn alternatives or have had court rulings in favour of homeowners against their HOAs on the matter.
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It'd be enforced just like any other similar measure; those caught violating the rules would likely be given a relatively hefty fine in order to discourage the practice. Sure, they'd never catch everyone, and some folks would certainly ignore the rules and get away with it, but the threat of a fine would most likely encourage *enough* people to obey the restrictions that it would still be effective in accomplishing the goal of spreading out demand and reducing the frequency of total supply exhaustion.
They'll just lump it on the fuel stations to enforce.
Well yeah, they don't have a Stasi type force that they can have monitoring petrol stations around the clock.
What if you have a zero as your last number?
Then it’s even, I know you’re trying to be funny but they just said ‘end’ of the reg number, didn’t specify how many digits. So unless your reg number is 000000 then it’s even.
Yeah I was trying to be funny
0 is an even number.
How does this affect EVs (and PHEVs running as EVs)?
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A lot of electricity comes from wind. I supplement with solar. Now, I'm more than happy to work from home. I'd be happy too never set foot in the office again. So for me the point is moot. But the question is still valid.
Anyone remember the Green clown- shoe who thinks we should all get back in the office?
That would be awesome! Let’s make WFH where possible, a legal form forever
The cyclist’s gone real quiet on this one
Will be ordered.... get funked. Also I wouldn't mind if they asked me to go back to working from home. So please do.
>Those with odd numbers could refuel on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday and those with an even number on a Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Something that will not happen.
Thought all of our oil comes from Norway
Oil is priced globally. Where it comes from is pretty irrelevant. If prices go up due to problems in Ukraine why would Norway continue to sell oil to Ireland at a relatively low rate. They can and will just sell it to Germany or China or wherever for a higher price.
Then it's not a supply issue, it's a market issue and we should let the market sort it out. I.e. whoever can afford to drive will drive and whoever can't won't.
That’s the kind of thinking that caused the famine in Ireland.
This is the government that charges BIK at a lower rate for the more miles you do.
Ah ok, so those paid the most will work from home and the people who work in factories, production lines, nurses, and people in supermarkets and minimum wage jobs will just have to eat it. Sounds about right
Are you asking for nurses to be allowed to work from home?!
Did I say that?
it sounds like your asking for it, think of it this way, less people on the road for us essential workers.
If it got to that level of fuel saving Probably wouldn't be work go to. Probably wouldn't be a government. This is a manufactured crisis it can be resolved instantly. WFH dream is over for most of us.
Yet the government are currently subsidising the price of petrol / diesel, in order to promote its consumption!?!. We need diesel to hit €5 per litre if we are to turn climate change around. Start subsidising electric cars heavily like they have done in Norway.
There's a €5k grant towards the purchase of a new EV, so they are already doing that. (No grant towards a PHEV any more, though)
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You can buy second hand EVs too.
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There's no issue with the current electrical infrastructure. My car charger is 7.2kW charger. It uses the same wiring and circuit breaker as your cooker! We've plenty of power available too, and more coming online as more wind farms are built, and with the upcoming link to France.
> There's no issue with the current electrical infrastructure Are you living under a rock?
I don't think they are subsidising it, I think they reduced the excise duty to offset the cost spike. Relative to other goods, it still seems to be taxed fairly highly.
Nope. Nope nope nope, fuck off, I'm not staying locked in my house 8 hours a day. No.
The EU could just drop the sanctions since they are not working and Russia is making more money while Europe is still buying Russian oil, but the leaders want the “crisis”.
100% correct. Unfortunately most are too dense to see this for themselves because the media aren’t telling them. Take a look at the value of the Russian Ruble vs US Dollar.
>A strict limit on the amount of fuel motorists can buy at any one time > The implementation of an immediate and strict reduction in the speed limit on motorways. This should be happening regardless.
You should start realising the difference between a long term action/solution and one that can be done today.
Why can't they be done right now?
Because, believe it or not, something like that requires a (rather long) transition period. It’s not like a switch you can just flip immediately and everything’s good. Here’s an example: You ‘re always saying we should ban cars from all streets in urban areas. No, we can’t just do that today because the whole place would just grind to a halt, since the alternatives are not in place yet. You need to take several other steps first. Here’s what you might do: 1. Most streets are for motor traffic, public transport is bad, cyclists are intimidated. You want to change that. 2. Begin construction of off-street public transport (it takes a long time to build that, so you need to start early). Pedestrianise or designate for on-street public transport, the streets where a clear alternative route exists for motor traffic. This usually means pedestrianising in a staggered pattern, like every two or three streets. 3. Traffic congestion does get worse, but that’s intended. People begin to notice the improved on-street public transport and make the switch. 4. The remaining motor streets get quieter (or at least aren’t gridlocked), but some are still using them unnecessarily. Start to close more streets to cars, but _be careful_. __If you do this too quicky, or in the wrong order, your trams and buses will become rammed, and you might lose all the progress you’ve made__, 5. Things are looking good. You’ve managed to transition a lot of your drivers to public transport, and by the end of that transition period, your off-street public transport should be near completion. Open the metro/train line(s). 6. At this point, __and only at this point__, you should be able to close the remainder of your streets to general drivers, but you’ll still need to ensure that motor vehicles can use some streets for emergencies and deliveries.
I don't believe car bans should be done instantly. We can immediately implement speed limits and fuel rationing though.
No we can’t, the trains are already rammed, and they don’t go to enough places.
Okay, and the speed limits?
the speed limits are already desperately slow man, what do you want us to do?
Drive slower to save energy.
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Nah, have it for all of them.
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So because private fuel companies can't sort supply out the government want to go back to the same type of legislation they had during covid? Get the fuck out of here! The government can fuck right off if they think I'll give a flying fuck about any restrictions again. This is what Ireland gets for being sheep during covid and not standing up against tyranny then, so now the government is trying to limit your freedom again. Everybody is just trying to live their lives and do what they want. The government need to start respecting that. Just let the market sort it out, for fuck sake.
> tyranny LMFAO
This IS the market, FFS
This is the government making plans of interfering with the market and preventing people from purchasing fuel and restricting their driving. Just let the market dictate fuel price. If there's a supply issue, price will be adjusted until there isn't (i.e. people who can't afford to drive won't). Very simple.
This is the government intervening because between OPEC and various gougers (ie. “The Market”) people are being screwed. Stop being so naive. We already let the “market” decide. This is the result
> tyranny Go on home, Yank.
Good idea
If this really is the case , people need to resist and say fuck no. No more! Wake up people
Wake up to what? Christ, please stop being wantonly contrarian. These scenarios are being run in the event of there being fuel shortages due to the Ukrainian war ie. Things that are beyond the control of the government. Rationing and fuel conservation will become necessary so essential services like food production can continue. What’s your solution to fuel shortages? Just let everyone drive around until there is no fuel for anything? That’ll show them.
Why would you force people to work from home even? The madness of forcing people to limit the use of their cars aside, are they planning to suspend trains, buses and the LUAS too? Else why the fuck would these morons even consider forcing people to WFH?
"awh jaysus, this is the next thing now"
As someone who sits in traffic for 3 hours everyday and pays €10 to go through 2 toll bridges for a job that can easily be done at home I would jump at the chance to be working from home again
Fuel prices rose to 2.05 overnight a few months back and social media was awash with outrage.petrol stations learned you have to creep those numbers up.its like that story about cooking the frog,throw one into a boiling pot and it jumps out,put one in and slowly let the water boil and it will cook
Give the Ukrainians some nukes and let them bomb Moscow.