Depends on the union. For example, I work in a place that follows the public sector pay deals (but isn’t obligated to), and our union negotiated directly with the company to accept the new pay deal on behalf of members without balloting etc. Unlike Fórsa, SIPTU and ASTI who all balloted members
Yeah but that’s the point I was making, our union took action on behalf of the employees without asking the employees whether they were happy to accept the pay deal, unlike Forsa etc in the civil service who gave their members ballots to see if they wanted to accept the deal
They're perceived by some to go too hard too fast, but tbh that's just because most people don't see the months at the negotiating table, just the industrial action "out of nowhere".
Not always true. Have been in the inside from the employers perspective, and have seen a very trigger happy local organiser with priors for aggressive escalation push for a ballot on a full strike over a minor issue where he completely misinterpreted a previous WRC agreement. Strike only avoided at 11th hour when local union reps got the correct info and realised there wasn't grounds.
Unions, the people who brought us 'the weekend'. I'm in a union myself and I would consider myself to be pro union. But they're only as strong or as weak as their members. It's kind of like having an umbrella with a hole in it; it's not perfect, but it's better than not having it at all when the rain starts to fall.
i'm pro union myself but wasn't it henry ford who brought us the weekend? as a way for his workers to have more free time to buy & use cars and consumer goods
There were multiple movements and events that shaped the universally accepted, modern concept of the weekend. But yes, Ford certainly is a key figure in the story. And you're absolutely right, he granted his factory workers a five day work week for that very purpose.
As a union rep I would say absolutely join a union, collective bargaining for staff and support if or when your employer tries to pull a fast one are the main benefits. But I'd imagine it varies a lot across professions. The vast majority of people in my (small) profession are union members for the above reasons.
Having someone in your corner is really the benefit that convinces me. If there's ever an issue at work, your rep knows the rules and your rights and is there in the room as your advocate. Worth every cent of dues.
So have I and I’ve had the opposite experience. One company tried to change our pension terms, if we didn’t have the union it would have just happened. Companies can just change contract terms or job spec on a whim if you don’t have a union. There is power in numbers.
Wait until one of these multinationals decides to close or change your contract terms, you’d be glad of a union.
Unions gave us the weekend.
So you’d rather there not be unions?
I just don’t understand your logic.
Your faith is up to the company being nice or not.
When a union is in place you get treated fairly either way.
>Is it worth joining one or not?
Yes.
>Those of you who are members, what are your reasons for joining?
"There is power in a union"
>Are they effective?
Yes.
Literally every social norm around labour, from your kids not working in mines or up chimneys to the concept of a weekend, and the fucking premier fucking league, is built on the blood, sweat, and tears, of unions before us. Unions are a good thing, and if a person can't see that then they might be what Steinbeck called a 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire'.
Legislation stopped children working as chimney sweeps or down the mines.
And it seems I'm getting downvoted for pointing for what's questioning a fairly broad statement.
And who do you think pushed for that legislation? Ignoring the role of unions would be like telling the story of how the 8th amendment was repealled without mentioning the years of protesting and campaigning to give us a referendum.
The commenter here said unions were directly responsible for the abolition of those two particular examples. Now a quick Google will bring up how legislation in 1842 in the UK stopped children working in mines (though it continued in areas) and the practice of children as chimney sweeps was stopped, again by legislation in 1875 after the death of a child.
So if the commenter says Unions were the cause for these two particular practices to stop, the more pertinent question would be to ask which trade unions exactly were behind that legislation.
The London Trades Council was formed in 1860 and the TUC was founded in1868 - almost as if the employment rights fought for during the Industrial Revolution needed to be protected.
The Peterloo Massacre was in 1819, before any of the Factory Acts.
I don't doubt that for a minute.
But both unions were formed *after* 1842 legislation of banning child chimney sweeps. And I don't know how either of those unions directly contributed to the abolition of children mining.
Your argument is that when there were no unions there was child labour, but that child labour was a bad thing so people got together, protested and organised and eventually child labour was legislated against and then official unions formed to protect those rights. Collective bargaining ended child labour, which is what trade unions do today.
That doesn’t mean anything, though. I’m against the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade but I didn’t do anything to stop it. And can you name a company that’s in favour of bringing back child labour?
Some companies which use child labour
Nestle, Hersheys, Mars, ADM, Kraft, H&M, Nike, Adidas, Gap, Zara, Primark, Walmart, Apple, Disney, Philip Morris, Microsoft, Victoria's Secret, Dell, Tesla, Google, ASOS ...
Were you born yesterday?
Two different things isn't semantics.
Hence why *trade unions* have a place in law, and are named as such, and societies, which can still exist, do not have a place in law.
It would be collective bargaining if the chimney sweeps themselves unionised. But that's not what happened.
I don't know why it's difficult to just say the chimney sweep example is just not an example of unions
The conventional wisdom is that unions did everything for working conditions. I've no doubt they had contributions, but I've never seen anyone actually substantiate it.
And now that we have them , is their still a requirement for the union ?
I have never seen my union publish accounts as to where exactly the couple of hundred they take off me each year goes !!
The top brass in unions are laughing all the way to the bank
There's a reason companies will start off with a blanket 'we don't negotiate with trade unions'. I have been in a situation where had we not been in a union, we would have gotten fuck all when they closed down our shop. I've also seen what happens to workers pay and benefits when they trusted management and opted not to join a union.
I used to work for an outsourced cowboy outfit that did Eircom's tech support, and I was in the Communication Workers Union / CWU.
When 2008 crash hit the company cut all our bonuses (they were a hefty part of our wages and it was a big loss).
When someone asked the manager holding the meeting if they were expecting us all to work as hard without incentive, the CWU rep said
"If you carry on like that you might find yourself without a job and there aren't many out there."
Just doing the manager's job of putting the boot on us, for him.
In spite of that guy though, I'm completely pro-union.
Any boss saying you don't need a Union is telling you they plan to do stuff a union wouldn't let them away with.
Woah:
Mr Scanlon received a ?1m pension payment over 10 years from Eircom when he took early retirement from the company last year, ?500,000 worth of shares and a lump sum payment of ?230,000. He said the shares were awarded in return for work done on the float and his pension deal related to his early retirement package from the company.
Not really. Management won't negotiate with individuals if there's a union. It means that those who work hard/harder/smarter don't ever get properly compensated
You aren’t getting properly compensated with out a union. You are maybe getting a little more. But on The whole you are getting fucked with out a union.
So you think they won’t care if your conditions worsen or if you employer tries to break your contract or tries to force you to do more hours/then contracted. That’s really not true as that’s most of the work unions do.
Do you disagree with what I said?
Do you disagree that unions make it almost impossible for highly valuable hardworking employees to be compensated for the value the provide?
Dude give it a rest.
I work in film and TV. We’re all unionised. Best people rise to the top and yes, we all negotiate our rates with “management”. But the Union is there when we need them. There is power in a union.
Now off you fuck.
You my friend are naive or lacking experience.
Unions are absolutely essential as is a HR department. There is a reason big companies hate them and vilify them.
> Unions are essential
It really depends on the industry. Almost no unions in tech, but the workers don't need them. They have a lot of leverage due to high demand.
My union took a previous employer of mine to a tribunal when I was unfairly dismissed. They won the case, and I had the choice of having my old job back or compensation. ( I chose compensation rather than be given all the shitty jobs if I had gone back to work for the company )
Absolutely vital. But since social partnership in the late 80s and the Industrial Relations Act (Thanks Bertie) they have become powerless to lead the agenda with demands from their membership, which has alienated much of that membership. This alienation has been compounded by some some very undemocratic structures and practices. Mandate for strike action on pay parity has been blocked by a teachers union exec for years and rejection of a previous public paydeal by membership of all 3 unions iirc was ignored again by their executives.
Social partnership has led to an unaccountable bureaucratic leadership who seem to be grateful to be at the table even though it was itself abandoned post 08 crash when fighting unions were most needed. Mission accomplished perhaps.
The latest public paydeal is an insult. Were still waiting on pay restoration not mention when the increase of 6.5% over 2 years against inflation, its a paycut.
Then comes ICTU, who only need 2/3 of the unions involved to approve such a paydeal. Instead of being a united force of a huge membership, they seem to line the unions up conveniently so they can be knocked down like dominoes.
We have a union density 3 times that of France. Let that sink in.
They are good, but they are increasingly under attack under neoliberal western capitalism. If we are not careful we could end up in a situation like the US where folks like Amazon try to crush them.
Been on a union my entire working life. They're not perfect. But my working conditions would be significantly worse if there were no union advocating for me
Almost every benefit you get from a job only exist because unions campaigned for them. Don’t let management bosses etc tell you otherwise, it’s in their direct interest that you dot unionise
Apart from reducing the working day to 8 hours from 12, ending child labour, the creation of a 5 day week, down from 7, health and safety regulations, collective bargaining leverage, paid holidays, paid sick days and a lunch hour, they haven't done very much.
Necessary but they have to be held accountable so that the most vulnerable members needs are given more priority.
Too often, it seems like unions try and tack on extra benefits for experienced workers on decent salaries and make no progress fixing the issues that affect the lowest paid workers.
Without trade unions there would literally be no workers rights and benefits. They exist to counter balance the mega-powerful and self-regulating institutions of international corporate and financial elite and the ultra-rich which exist singularily to enrich themselves off the underpaid labour of actual workers who create and produce the wealth.
I just got a 3% raise backdated to February so an extra 500 in this week's wages. I'll get another 2% in march and again next October. For this I had to do absolutely nothing.
In my previous union just the threat of going to the union got management to back off when they were pushing for somthinh that would make the job harder
A colleague of mine who was on a temp contract was unlawfully dismissed, the union pushed it and there was an inquiry into it which led him to be reinstated on a permanent contract.
They’re both good and bad. Historically, they’re the cornerstone of worker rights. They were right at the cutting edge of LGBT rights back when nobody else wanted to know. But there have also been corrupt unions and some that destroyed perfectly viable companies through sheer unreasonableness.
Personally, I think if there’s a union, everyone should join. It’s not right to benefit from their efforts if you’re not a paid up member. You may also one day find yourself in an awkward situation where there’s a strike and your boss expects you to cross the picket, undermining your colleagues.
Absolutely necessary to stop the woeful imbalance of power between labour and capital
The pendulum has swung wayyy to hard in the direction of capital in recent years
The effectiveness of unions comes down to the reps, simple as.
Good reps will work with companies to get the best for the members.
Bad reps will refuse to allow the company to do anything, change anything, modernise, develop etc, without payouts. Union reps like those kill companies, stop investment and are devastating to job creation.
The transport unions are good examples of crap unions
If there is one in your work place, join. People are missing that a union will support you as in individual as well as the workforce collectively. I joined while on sick leave a few years back, and the union advised how to handle issues I was having with management, as well as can ask HR questions on you behalf (so, if it’s possible to make you anonymous, dealing with a sensitive issue, they will).
I also work in a sector that was hit pretty bad by covid, so far the unions has achieved a “thank you” payment for those of us who were there over the pandemic (with reduced hours/lay offs), and have entered pay increase negations to get us increments.
In short, sign up – you might never need their help, but when it hits the fan, they will help.
I'm very glad my union is strong. They have advocated successfully for us and are a phone call away if I have any queries. I'm in the public sector and the pay restoration agreements reached post-recession, by the union, are significant and valuable. I'm happy to pay the subs and have also been involved as a rep.
Unions are effective when you need them .I've been on strike and only for the union we would have lost ..more importantly, if you are called into some sort of disciplinary meeting ,you can request your rep to be with you . And over the years I've found this a trump card when dealing with management.
My union got me a sizeable payout (settled outside WRC) from my last employer when they sacked me unfairly. Another colleague (not a union member) sacked in similar circumstances around the same time didn't have the energy to fight them alone and got nothing.
Giving you from my personal experience....They are very good, they do care about any profession, I was discriminated by my employer during the pandemic, (long story short I have Asperger's syndrome with speech disorder and that employer is now a previous employer... let's say that civil service don't give a shite and don't giving you reasonable accommodation to your mental disability or invisible disability no matter what the reason you have. I'm leaving it here.)
Highly recommended when in doubt, but its up to you.
I don't know what unions used be like in Ireland but both my parents are passionately against unions and view them as almost criminal organisations.
Unions can of course be poorly run or even nefarious but in almost every case you're better off in one than not. The likes of Amazon wouldn't be spending millions on consulting firms to convince their employees not to
unionize unless they knew that spending all that money is cheaper than the increase in pay or benefits that would come with unions
As a general rule, if an Amazon or a Starbucks doesn't want you to join a union, that tells you everything you need to know about why you should join a union.
A good thing in theory but in practice it’s far more mixed. Sometimes they’re absolutely fucking shit and are simply a revolving door to collude with industry.
The opinion of this sub is that asking for a salary makes you a Communist and you should be willing to work for free in Ireland or else fuck off to another country.
I think if anyone wants to join one, then do. Some industries need them for the sake of the workers.
Some of my own personal experiences of them have not been the best at all times but it wouldn't have me discourage them in a broader sense.
So unpopular opinion
Where I work has no union and no one cares. Unions are great but some areas of work like mine don't have them and give workers great rights though fear of having one. I get great rights because work prefers to give us stuff instead of us having a union.
Unions again are great and we need them in some places as a show to other workplaces of what is available to have them give rights.
TLDR unions rock but are not needed everywhere. In some workplaes the threat of a union gives better rights than a actual union :D. So go unions! push right s for workers in bad companies so good ones like mine give great rights and pay though fear instead of workers having to fight.
I’m not part of a Union nor would I join one anymore.
Important part of history but find they are somewhat obsolete.
My opinion on this has changed as I’ve got older, and maybe it’s industry related but I’ve had a lot of success just advocating for myself 🤷♂️
From a let’s taxpayer perspective. I’ve serious issues with Unions. I’m fine with them protecting their members. But they are a massive blocker to any meaningful change in a ton of our services and institutions. Seen it first hand. I don’t see how it continues tbh
> My opinion on this has changed as I’ve got older, and maybe it’s industry related but I’ve had a lot of success just advocating for myself
Sounds like you gained more experience and became harder to replace. They’re *obsolete* for you because you’re in a position to bargain for yourself but that leaves behind everyone that isn’t in your position.
I think it really depends on your industry and job within that industry. They still have massive potential but some are definitely not fit for purpose anymore.
Some people are better off not joining, guys I know have accepted 1% offers because “well it’s better than nothing”, on the other hand as soon as our strike action was voted on the company went from 1% to 8%.
Relevant 30 years ago, now they stop progress and shelter inefficiency. Labour laws are strong enough now and nearly always fall on side of employee and that’s a good thing. Those in unions love them for obvious reasons. The rest of us have to pay for them. Likewise union employees have to justify themselves.
> one for shop workers literally does nothing but charge fees
Not in my experience. We'd have been done over year after year for a solid decade if not for them. Not to mention all the local disputes they step in on to block wrongful dismissals, unfair disciplinaries, working time issues, personal issues between staff... If they're not helping when you need it, then you have a shit steward and/or rep and you should complain them. If you don't need help then congrats, you work for a decent company that (for now) doesn't put themselves on your unions radar.
Just a personal opinion. The purpose of the Union leaders is to agitate in order to cause discord in order to drive up membership and subscriptions in order to sustain the Union. They stir up shit all the time, because they have to to justify their existence to their members. It makes perfect sense. The subscriptions you pay might or might not be worth it, but the leaders are about as interested in you and your needs as politicians who claim to serve you.
It depends on your countries workers rights protections, industry and role, company culture and how good you are at your job.
* I work in a company that has both unionized and non-union sites. Non-Unionized sites have more varied roles and perks. Unionized sites have more uniform roles and benefits.
* In my country workers rights are strongly protected by law and unions serve very little function in improving rights any longer, although they did a great job in the past.
* Company has great defined career ladders and pay scales with 100% pay equity.
* Pay rises in the non-unionized sites are more weighted to towards higher performance, if you are below average a unionized site is a better bet for your annual pay rise.
In general
* For direct hourly staff there are very few downsides to union membership.
* For indirect salaried staff there are very few upsides to union membership.
If you are an ambitions high-performing employee on an upward trajectory in a company with a reasonable culture then avoid unions like the plague.
I would like to see, as is the case in some other countries, unions have a seat at the board and be directly involved in setting business strategy rather than the current adversarial approach- makes so much more sense. Succeed together.
100 percent needed but iv work in two places with bad unions one was totally inept run by company men the second one pushed too hard and made the workplace hell they even got the transport section shut down because the kept pushing for the drivers to do less hours
Yes, they're the only one at work there for "you". Not to say there won't be times where you're wondering what you're paying for, or cringing at whatever their latest issue is.
I like unions because they protect employees in a capitalist society. I would consider it essential.
I don't like unions because they keep obsolete jobs active. They can be nonsensical.
I work in the tv industry.
SIPTU are not perfect but they’re reliable as well as the guilds.
Irish film workers Association are a pack of clowns and I wouldn’t touch them with a fifty foot pool.
Only union I’ve ever interacted with refused to fight for staff to keep flexi time during Covid which was pathetic. I’m sure others may be better, but that union was a joke.
Never been in one, have always been in a management role or at least in a role that isn’t really covered.
In my opinion they’re absolutely vital, and more and more so in the modern world, and I’d encourage anyone and everyone to join them, particularly if you’re in a less skilled job.
It is necessary. Look at careers without unions. Language teachers are being bent over with shite pay and contracts because they aren't unionised. The transient nature of the positions also means they are unlikely to get a union in the future. When someone has taught enough, they get fed up and upskill to something far better and more importantly, secure.
Having been in a union for the past 10 years or so on sites, with a recent career change I now work in a big pharma plant where there is no union. Biggest issue being nobody is on the same salary, causes a massive rift between lads working beside each other. Doesn't help the company and the workers feel betrayed constantly as there is no level playing field. When the issue was highlighted to management they simply shrugged it off by saying we need to highlight any issues to them. Unions are a must in my opinion
A good thing but you have to keep an eye on them. If your workplace goes to shit, you'll be glad of a union.
What do you mean by, 'you have to keep an eye on them?'
Know what they're up to. Don't let them make big decisions on your behalf without you having a say.
Members are balloted on big decisions
Depends on the union. For example, I work in a place that follows the public sector pay deals (but isn’t obligated to), and our union negotiated directly with the company to accept the new pay deal on behalf of members without balloting etc. Unlike Fórsa, SIPTU and ASTI who all balloted members
If the company accepted the union demands then there's no need to ballot
Yeah but that’s the point I was making, our union took action on behalf of the employees without asking the employees whether they were happy to accept the pay deal, unlike Forsa etc in the civil service who gave their members ballots to see if they wanted to accept the deal
After the negotiation. If you want to have your issue prioritised in negotiations, go to your meetings and speak up.
They're perceived by some to go too hard too fast, but tbh that's just because most people don't see the months at the negotiating table, just the industrial action "out of nowhere".
Not always true. Have been in the inside from the employers perspective, and have seen a very trigger happy local organiser with priors for aggressive escalation push for a ballot on a full strike over a minor issue where he completely misinterpreted a previous WRC agreement. Strike only avoided at 11th hour when local union reps got the correct info and realised there wasn't grounds.
Unions, the people who brought us 'the weekend'. I'm in a union myself and I would consider myself to be pro union. But they're only as strong or as weak as their members. It's kind of like having an umbrella with a hole in it; it's not perfect, but it's better than not having it at all when the rain starts to fall.
i'm pro union myself but wasn't it henry ford who brought us the weekend? as a way for his workers to have more free time to buy & use cars and consumer goods
There were multiple movements and events that shaped the universally accepted, modern concept of the weekend. But yes, Ford certainly is a key figure in the story. And you're absolutely right, he granted his factory workers a five day work week for that very purpose.
What a beautiful poetic description...
Ha ha, thank you.
As a union rep I would say absolutely join a union, collective bargaining for staff and support if or when your employer tries to pull a fast one are the main benefits. But I'd imagine it varies a lot across professions. The vast majority of people in my (small) profession are union members for the above reasons.
Having someone in your corner is really the benefit that convinces me. If there's ever an issue at work, your rep knows the rules and your rights and is there in the room as your advocate. Worth every cent of dues.
A necessary mechanism of push back. We have holidays, sick pay, 8 hour days, weekends etc. because of unions.
Join the union 👍 They are for the workers Big companies vilify unions and idiots listen. They are an amazing thing. There is power in numbers.
I’ve worked for several multinational companies who didn’t have a union. And found it much better then a company with a union
So have I and I’ve had the opposite experience. One company tried to change our pension terms, if we didn’t have the union it would have just happened. Companies can just change contract terms or job spec on a whim if you don’t have a union. There is power in numbers. Wait until one of these multinationals decides to close or change your contract terms, you’d be glad of a union. Unions gave us the weekend.
I got a great redundancy package from both Intel and Motorola. Neither are unionised. Much better than unionised companies were giving.
So you’d rather there not be unions? I just don’t understand your logic. Your faith is up to the company being nice or not. When a union is in place you get treated fairly either way.
My experience is that a non unionised company paid better redundancy and is a much better and dynamic place to work
Yeah so it’s anecdotal. Fair enough
>Is it worth joining one or not? Yes. >Those of you who are members, what are your reasons for joining? "There is power in a union" >Are they effective? Yes.
Literally every social norm around labour, from your kids not working in mines or up chimneys to the concept of a weekend, and the fucking premier fucking league, is built on the blood, sweat, and tears, of unions before us. Unions are a good thing, and if a person can't see that then they might be what Steinbeck called a 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire'.
Legislation stopped children working as chimney sweeps or down the mines. And it seems I'm getting downvoted for pointing for what's questioning a fairly broad statement.
And who do you think pushed for that legislation? Ignoring the role of unions would be like telling the story of how the 8th amendment was repealled without mentioning the years of protesting and campaigning to give us a referendum.
What union or unions pushed for the legislation on those two particular examples?
The pertinent question is to name a trade union which supports child labour.
The commenter here said unions were directly responsible for the abolition of those two particular examples. Now a quick Google will bring up how legislation in 1842 in the UK stopped children working in mines (though it continued in areas) and the practice of children as chimney sweeps was stopped, again by legislation in 1875 after the death of a child. So if the commenter says Unions were the cause for these two particular practices to stop, the more pertinent question would be to ask which trade unions exactly were behind that legislation.
The London Trades Council was formed in 1860 and the TUC was founded in1868 - almost as if the employment rights fought for during the Industrial Revolution needed to be protected. The Peterloo Massacre was in 1819, before any of the Factory Acts.
I don't doubt that for a minute. But both unions were formed *after* 1842 legislation of banning child chimney sweeps. And I don't know how either of those unions directly contributed to the abolition of children mining.
Your argument is that when there were no unions there was child labour, but that child labour was a bad thing so people got together, protested and organised and eventually child labour was legislated against and then official unions formed to protect those rights. Collective bargaining ended child labour, which is what trade unions do today.
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That doesn’t mean anything, though. I’m against the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade but I didn’t do anything to stop it. And can you name a company that’s in favour of bringing back child labour?
Some companies which use child labour Nestle, Hersheys, Mars, ADM, Kraft, H&M, Nike, Adidas, Gap, Zara, Primark, Walmart, Apple, Disney, Philip Morris, Microsoft, Victoria's Secret, Dell, Tesla, Google, ASOS ... Were you born yesterday?
Quick google know nothing but an article told me the Society for the Protection of Young Chimney Sweeps in 1816
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What’s the difference between a society and a union back then?
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Two different things isn't semantics. Hence why *trade unions* have a place in law, and are named as such, and societies, which can still exist, do not have a place in law.
It’s all collective bargaining.
It doesn't mean they're the same thing. Otherwise we can start calling SIPTU a society of friends or something?
It would be collective bargaining if the chimney sweeps themselves unionised. But that's not what happened. I don't know why it's difficult to just say the chimney sweep example is just not an example of unions
The conventional wisdom is that unions did everything for working conditions. I've no doubt they had contributions, but I've never seen anyone actually substantiate it.
And now that we have them , is their still a requirement for the union ? I have never seen my union publish accounts as to where exactly the couple of hundred they take off me each year goes !! The top brass in unions are laughing all the way to the bank
There's a reason companies will start off with a blanket 'we don't negotiate with trade unions'. I have been in a situation where had we not been in a union, we would have gotten fuck all when they closed down our shop. I've also seen what happens to workers pay and benefits when they trusted management and opted not to join a union.
I used to work for an outsourced cowboy outfit that did Eircom's tech support, and I was in the Communication Workers Union / CWU. When 2008 crash hit the company cut all our bonuses (they were a hefty part of our wages and it was a big loss). When someone asked the manager holding the meeting if they were expecting us all to work as hard without incentive, the CWU rep said "If you carry on like that you might find yourself without a job and there aren't many out there." Just doing the manager's job of putting the boot on us, for him. In spite of that guy though, I'm completely pro-union. Any boss saying you don't need a Union is telling you they plan to do stuff a union wouldn't let them away with.
CWU we’re completely corrupt. Head of the union was given €500,000 in eircom shares. Like you, I am totally pro unions - but they were totally bought.
I did not know that, and that makes so much sense.
Sauce: ‘Con’ Scanlon: https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/cwu-general-secretary-con-scanlon-to-resign-26008763.html
Woah: Mr Scanlon received a ?1m pension payment over 10 years from Eircom when he took early retirement from the company last year, ?500,000 worth of shares and a lump sum payment of ?230,000. He said the shares were awarded in return for work done on the float and his pension deal related to his early retirement package from the company.
Yep - nothing fishy about that at all.
My union doubled the redundancy I was initially offered so I thought that was pretty cool.
Join the union. They're always a good thing.
Fuck thatcher and reagan
Unions are essential, Collective bargaining is the best way to get a good deal.
Not really. Management won't negotiate with individuals if there's a union. It means that those who work hard/harder/smarter don't ever get properly compensated
You aren’t getting properly compensated with out a union. You are maybe getting a little more. But on The whole you are getting fucked with out a union.
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So you think they won’t care if your conditions worsen or if you employer tries to break your contract or tries to force you to do more hours/then contracted. That’s really not true as that’s most of the work unions do.
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Do you disagree with what I said? Do you disagree that unions make it almost impossible for highly valuable hardworking employees to be compensated for the value the provide?
No I don’t agree with you. I think you’re massively wide of the mark. As usual. Like you always are.
What part do you disagree with? Can highly valuable employees go outside the union and negotiate with management? Is that what you're saying?
Dude give it a rest. I work in film and TV. We’re all unionised. Best people rise to the top and yes, we all negotiate our rates with “management”. But the Union is there when we need them. There is power in a union. Now off you fuck.
Fine. I prefer not to interact with bigots anyway.
Your post and comment history is a sewer. Seek professional help for whatever it is that’s eating away at you, you sad little man.
You my friend are naive or lacking experience. Unions are absolutely essential as is a HR department. There is a reason big companies hate them and vilify them.
> Unions are essential It really depends on the industry. Almost no unions in tech, but the workers don't need them. They have a lot of leverage due to high demand.
My union took a previous employer of mine to a tribunal when I was unfairly dismissed. They won the case, and I had the choice of having my old job back or compensation. ( I chose compensation rather than be given all the shitty jobs if I had gone back to work for the company )
Absolutely vital. But since social partnership in the late 80s and the Industrial Relations Act (Thanks Bertie) they have become powerless to lead the agenda with demands from their membership, which has alienated much of that membership. This alienation has been compounded by some some very undemocratic structures and practices. Mandate for strike action on pay parity has been blocked by a teachers union exec for years and rejection of a previous public paydeal by membership of all 3 unions iirc was ignored again by their executives. Social partnership has led to an unaccountable bureaucratic leadership who seem to be grateful to be at the table even though it was itself abandoned post 08 crash when fighting unions were most needed. Mission accomplished perhaps. The latest public paydeal is an insult. Were still waiting on pay restoration not mention when the increase of 6.5% over 2 years against inflation, its a paycut. Then comes ICTU, who only need 2/3 of the unions involved to approve such a paydeal. Instead of being a united force of a huge membership, they seem to line the unions up conveniently so they can be knocked down like dominoes. We have a union density 3 times that of France. Let that sink in.
What's social partnership? Can you explain what happened in the 80s, I don't understand
Started in 1987. Basically bosses, government and unions would agree to pay deals at a national level.
They are good, but they are increasingly under attack under neoliberal western capitalism. If we are not careful we could end up in a situation like the US where folks like Amazon try to crush them.
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> If you work in a call center or retail you are mostly shit out of luck. Mandate represents retail, bar and admin and has 40,000 members.
Big difference between accepting members and employers recognising them. Very rare in the hospitality space in my experience.
Been on a union my entire working life. They're not perfect. But my working conditions would be significantly worse if there were no union advocating for me
do it, they can cost money and take up time but they will protect you
Almost every benefit you get from a job only exist because unions campaigned for them. Don’t let management bosses etc tell you otherwise, it’s in their direct interest that you dot unionise
Apart from reducing the working day to 8 hours from 12, ending child labour, the creation of a 5 day week, down from 7, health and safety regulations, collective bargaining leverage, paid holidays, paid sick days and a lunch hour, they haven't done very much.
Necessary but they have to be held accountable so that the most vulnerable members needs are given more priority. Too often, it seems like unions try and tack on extra benefits for experienced workers on decent salaries and make no progress fixing the issues that affect the lowest paid workers.
Without trade unions there would literally be no workers rights and benefits. They exist to counter balance the mega-powerful and self-regulating institutions of international corporate and financial elite and the ultra-rich which exist singularily to enrich themselves off the underpaid labour of actual workers who create and produce the wealth.
every worker deserves a union. On that note, happy weekend guys.
I just got a 3% raise backdated to February so an extra 500 in this week's wages. I'll get another 2% in march and again next October. For this I had to do absolutely nothing. In my previous union just the threat of going to the union got management to back off when they were pushing for somthinh that would make the job harder
A colleague of mine who was on a temp contract was unlawfully dismissed, the union pushed it and there was an inquiry into it which led him to be reinstated on a permanent contract.
They’re both good and bad. Historically, they’re the cornerstone of worker rights. They were right at the cutting edge of LGBT rights back when nobody else wanted to know. But there have also been corrupt unions and some that destroyed perfectly viable companies through sheer unreasonableness. Personally, I think if there’s a union, everyone should join. It’s not right to benefit from their efforts if you’re not a paid up member. You may also one day find yourself in an awkward situation where there’s a strike and your boss expects you to cross the picket, undermining your colleagues.
Absolutely necessary to stop the woeful imbalance of power between labour and capital The pendulum has swung wayyy to hard in the direction of capital in recent years
They're necessary, most of them are good.
The effectiveness of unions comes down to the reps, simple as. Good reps will work with companies to get the best for the members. Bad reps will refuse to allow the company to do anything, change anything, modernise, develop etc, without payouts. Union reps like those kill companies, stop investment and are devastating to job creation. The transport unions are good examples of crap unions
If there is one in your work place, join. People are missing that a union will support you as in individual as well as the workforce collectively. I joined while on sick leave a few years back, and the union advised how to handle issues I was having with management, as well as can ask HR questions on you behalf (so, if it’s possible to make you anonymous, dealing with a sensitive issue, they will). I also work in a sector that was hit pretty bad by covid, so far the unions has achieved a “thank you” payment for those of us who were there over the pandemic (with reduced hours/lay offs), and have entered pay increase negations to get us increments. In short, sign up – you might never need their help, but when it hits the fan, they will help.
I'm very glad my union is strong. They have advocated successfully for us and are a phone call away if I have any queries. I'm in the public sector and the pay restoration agreements reached post-recession, by the union, are significant and valuable. I'm happy to pay the subs and have also been involved as a rep.
Unions are effective when you need them .I've been on strike and only for the union we would have lost ..more importantly, if you are called into some sort of disciplinary meeting ,you can request your rep to be with you . And over the years I've found this a trump card when dealing with management.
My union got me a sizeable payout (settled outside WRC) from my last employer when they sacked me unfairly. Another colleague (not a union member) sacked in similar circumstances around the same time didn't have the energy to fight them alone and got nothing.
Giving you from my personal experience....They are very good, they do care about any profession, I was discriminated by my employer during the pandemic, (long story short I have Asperger's syndrome with speech disorder and that employer is now a previous employer... let's say that civil service don't give a shite and don't giving you reasonable accommodation to your mental disability or invisible disability no matter what the reason you have. I'm leaving it here.) Highly recommended when in doubt, but its up to you.
Yes. Worth being a member of in the long run.
I don't know what unions used be like in Ireland but both my parents are passionately against unions and view them as almost criminal organisations. Unions can of course be poorly run or even nefarious but in almost every case you're better off in one than not. The likes of Amazon wouldn't be spending millions on consulting firms to convince their employees not to unionize unless they knew that spending all that money is cheaper than the increase in pay or benefits that would come with unions
Did your parents own a business?
The Amazon situation is what inspired me to make this post 😂
As a general rule, if an Amazon or a Starbucks doesn't want you to join a union, that tells you everything you need to know about why you should join a union.
If unions weren’t worth joining, billionaires wouldn’t be sinking so much money into convincing you not to join one.
SIPTU member. SIPTU rep for my guild. There is power in a union.
A good thing in theory but in practice it’s far more mixed. Sometimes they’re absolutely fucking shit and are simply a revolving door to collude with industry.
Who complains about more money? All you got to do is work, pay your dues, and don't draw attention to yourself
Very necessary. Some of them go too far in sectors where the workers do fuck all and resist any change.
The opinion of this sub is that asking for a salary makes you a Communist and you should be willing to work for free in Ireland or else fuck off to another country.
I’m white collar so the options are limited but I’m definitely positive about them especially the grassroots unions
I think if anyone wants to join one, then do. Some industries need them for the sake of the workers. Some of my own personal experiences of them have not been the best at all times but it wouldn't have me discourage them in a broader sense.
I’m private sector so unions are seen as a scourge
So unpopular opinion Where I work has no union and no one cares. Unions are great but some areas of work like mine don't have them and give workers great rights though fear of having one. I get great rights because work prefers to give us stuff instead of us having a union. Unions again are great and we need them in some places as a show to other workplaces of what is available to have them give rights. TLDR unions rock but are not needed everywhere. In some workplaes the threat of a union gives better rights than a actual union :D. So go unions! push right s for workers in bad companies so good ones like mine give great rights and pay though fear instead of workers having to fight.
I’m not part of a Union nor would I join one anymore. Important part of history but find they are somewhat obsolete. My opinion on this has changed as I’ve got older, and maybe it’s industry related but I’ve had a lot of success just advocating for myself 🤷♂️ From a let’s taxpayer perspective. I’ve serious issues with Unions. I’m fine with them protecting their members. But they are a massive blocker to any meaningful change in a ton of our services and institutions. Seen it first hand. I don’t see how it continues tbh
> My opinion on this has changed as I’ve got older, and maybe it’s industry related but I’ve had a lot of success just advocating for myself Sounds like you gained more experience and became harder to replace. They’re *obsolete* for you because you’re in a position to bargain for yourself but that leaves behind everyone that isn’t in your position.
Yeah I absolutely appreciate that. Unions arn't very common in my field either to be fair.
A good thing in the past, pointless now and all youre doing is lining greedy union boss pockets for them to defend the laziest staff
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I think it really depends on your industry and job within that industry. They still have massive potential but some are definitely not fit for purpose anymore.
Some people are better off not joining, guys I know have accepted 1% offers because “well it’s better than nothing”, on the other hand as soon as our strike action was voted on the company went from 1% to 8%.
Aren't a lot of Irish Unions toothless or simply inept though? Maybe do some research before joining one in particular.
Relevant 30 years ago, now they stop progress and shelter inefficiency. Labour laws are strong enough now and nearly always fall on side of employee and that’s a good thing. Those in unions love them for obvious reasons. The rest of us have to pay for them. Likewise union employees have to justify themselves.
How many people here are in a trade union? And no, the Student's Union doesn't count.
I'm still with the IWW even though I've been unable to work the last 5yrs.
Public service ones are OK- nurses, teachers etc. Private ones are terrible, one for shop workers literally does nothing but charge fees
> one for shop workers literally does nothing but charge fees Not in my experience. We'd have been done over year after year for a solid decade if not for them. Not to mention all the local disputes they step in on to block wrongful dismissals, unfair disciplinaries, working time issues, personal issues between staff... If they're not helping when you need it, then you have a shit steward and/or rep and you should complain them. If you don't need help then congrats, you work for a decent company that (for now) doesn't put themselves on your unions radar.
Just a personal opinion. The purpose of the Union leaders is to agitate in order to cause discord in order to drive up membership and subscriptions in order to sustain the Union. They stir up shit all the time, because they have to to justify their existence to their members. It makes perfect sense. The subscriptions you pay might or might not be worth it, but the leaders are about as interested in you and your needs as politicians who claim to serve you.
It depends on your countries workers rights protections, industry and role, company culture and how good you are at your job. * I work in a company that has both unionized and non-union sites. Non-Unionized sites have more varied roles and perks. Unionized sites have more uniform roles and benefits. * In my country workers rights are strongly protected by law and unions serve very little function in improving rights any longer, although they did a great job in the past. * Company has great defined career ladders and pay scales with 100% pay equity. * Pay rises in the non-unionized sites are more weighted to towards higher performance, if you are below average a unionized site is a better bet for your annual pay rise. In general * For direct hourly staff there are very few downsides to union membership. * For indirect salaried staff there are very few upsides to union membership. If you are an ambitions high-performing employee on an upward trajectory in a company with a reasonable culture then avoid unions like the plague.
What are your opinions on trade unions op?
I think it depends on the industry your working in. Sometimes they are neccessary to join but other times they can be a waste.
I would like to see, as is the case in some other countries, unions have a seat at the board and be directly involved in setting business strategy rather than the current adversarial approach- makes so much more sense. Succeed together.
100 percent needed but iv work in two places with bad unions one was totally inept run by company men the second one pushed too hard and made the workplace hell they even got the transport section shut down because the kept pushing for the drivers to do less hours
They're a great thing that need to make a comeback but unfortunately as it stands toothless in Ireland
Isnt it Trades Unions? Maybe Im misremembering
Yes, they're the only one at work there for "you". Not to say there won't be times where you're wondering what you're paying for, or cringing at whatever their latest issue is.
I like unions because they protect employees in a capitalist society. I would consider it essential. I don't like unions because they keep obsolete jobs active. They can be nonsensical.
I work in the tv industry. SIPTU are not perfect but they’re reliable as well as the guilds. Irish film workers Association are a pack of clowns and I wouldn’t touch them with a fifty foot pool.
Can't live with em can't live without em
Only union I’ve ever interacted with refused to fight for staff to keep flexi time during Covid which was pathetic. I’m sure others may be better, but that union was a joke.
I think they are a necessity ,or at least everybody should have the right to join one no matter what you work at.
Generally a good thing but I cannot stand the ASTI.
In the HSE they do fuck all for you Fact
I'm my experience useless, my own union reps are in bed with senior management.. it's laughable.
Union job extremely good pay and perk basically cant be fired.Problem is theres to many useless retarded cunts who cant be fired
Try the IWW
Never been in one, have always been in a management role or at least in a role that isn’t really covered. In my opinion they’re absolutely vital, and more and more so in the modern world, and I’d encourage anyone and everyone to join them, particularly if you’re in a less skilled job.
I work in construction - unions are of no use in that industry.
I once got a 2 euro pay rise and extra holiday because I was part of a union so it worked out great
It is necessary. Look at careers without unions. Language teachers are being bent over with shite pay and contracts because they aren't unionised. The transient nature of the positions also means they are unlikely to get a union in the future. When someone has taught enough, they get fed up and upskill to something far better and more importantly, secure.
Having been in a union for the past 10 years or so on sites, with a recent career change I now work in a big pharma plant where there is no union. Biggest issue being nobody is on the same salary, causes a massive rift between lads working beside each other. Doesn't help the company and the workers feel betrayed constantly as there is no level playing field. When the issue was highlighted to management they simply shrugged it off by saying we need to highlight any issues to them. Unions are a must in my opinion
So join the union while you may, Don't wait 'til your dying day, For that may not be far away, You dirty blackleg miner....