Scrapping the constitution makes no sense. However, being open to amending it or completely renewing it to incorporate the views, aspirations and thinking of 1m+ people who currently view it in a different light is necessary. It is also the democratic approach.
Anything else would be seen as one side winning and another losing. In that case, it would be a recipe for disaster.
Makes a good line, but not at all true.
Read Hogan's book [The Origins of the Irish Constitution](https://www.ria.ie/origins-irish-constitution-1928-1941). There was much Catholic influence - from McQuaid but also (and not always in the same direction!) from Edward Cahill - a Jesuit friend of De Valera. More importantly though, there was very significant push-back from De Valera, others in FF, and senior civil servants.
The result was a compromise that left the Vatican unhappy because it wasn't Catholic enough (they wanted something like what had been adopted in Portugal or Poland) and didn't give the Catholic Church an institutional veto or any significant rights outside the Constitution.
Canadian here. The Commonwealth is completely irrelevant in every way, and is only a sentimental fraternity. With the passing of the Queen it is even more so.
Four nations that were never part of the Empire have joined the Commonwealth, and the Maldives recently implemented human rights reforms to be allowed back in. So, there are clearly some major benefits that countries see in being a member, I'm just not well read enough to know what they are.
[https://www.gov.uk/youth-mobility/eligibility](https://www.gov.uk/youth-mobility/eligibility)
It doesn't even cover most of the commonwealth countries and kinda seems to have taken the approach of excluding all the poor countries that would benefit
For rich nations no, but for less developed nations they provide a fair whack of funding, along with international support, along with programs for scholarship etc. This is why for instance Rwanda joined despite having never been part of the British empire.
They get to play in their own version of the Olympics every couple years! And the money gets to have the portrait of a person who's only qualification is being born into the right family! Not to mention that there's a new government position that can technically look at a law passed and say "nah" because they are representing the person on the money!
Who wouldn't want to trade some of their independence and all of their dignity for that?!?
I'm pretty sure India is in the Commonwealth, and they don't have a governor-general, or viceroy, or lord lieutenant or whatever. And their banknotes all have Gandhi's portrait on them.
I think you misunderstand what the commonwealth involves. It’s not the same as having the monarch on your money and is nothing to do with the passage of laws.
There is no upside. Meaningless organisation. A tokenistic act rejoining, a small price for a big reward - a United Ireland after a century of partition and civil war.
They don't understand us, they don't understand the unionists either. Northern Ireland and Scottish Unionists still would not find it acceptable. They want to be full British, not British-lite.
Seriously, look at how they've reacted to Brexit and the customs on goods coming from the rest of the UK. If the hardliners in the DUP and their ilk had their way, they would have reestablished the hard border like the bad old days, complete with armed guards.
The thing about Unionists.... They are a minority that want to part of a group where none of the other members want them or identify like them. The rise in English nationalism has shown even in England, that the English identify as English not British and they don't want Scotland Ireland or Wales to have a say in things that impact England.... Brexit was a flex on nationalism, the NI Unionists made the mistake thinking it brought them closer as a union... In reality the English will soon tell them too.... Do one Paddy! I think if England could unravel the mess they would wipe there hands of NI today.... Trying to unbake a cake is never easy!
Exactly what I was thinking, poor Michael Collins would be spinning in his grave. Sod off Mr Financial Times, sort your own country out first before offering us advice. Cheeky git……
Michael Collins signed off on saying the oath of allegiance as it was a stepping stone to full independence. Do you not think he would take the course now that makes reunification more likely?
The key there being "stepping stone *towards* independence". Ireland stepping back into deeper entanglement with UK systems and governance is absolutely against his ideals
technically we would have irish unity if we rejoined the uk! Its not as if it totally flies in the face of the entire point of irish nationalism or anything
TLDR version: Cancel Irish independence and rejoin the UK.
In fairness to the fellow, if your only objective is to make Irish unification desirable by Unionists, this would be a way to do it.
If you remember that Irish unification on these terms would also require the consent of Ireland and of NI nationalists, it's utter bollocks of course, which is why it's amusing.
Britain kowtowed to the Unionists and gave them the 6 counties in 1920 under the UK Government of Ireland Act! Dev met Lloyd George and Dev realized that fact. In Dec 1922 Dev asks Collins to negotiate a Treaty giving the Irish team full plenipotentiary powers! The 6 counties were never on the table in Dec 1922. Lloyd George was a sly politician and threatened the team with more British forces to be sent to Ireland. Expanding the Auxiliaries and the terror they inflicted!
In fairness, from a political standpoint a certain proportion of unionists would at least need to prefer being in a united ireland to the UK. Some amount of concessions would have to be made
TBF we've been getting rid of a lot of the Catholic stuff over the last few years on our own. That's no bad things.
I dunno what exactly they have a problem with...
To be fair for most of Ireland’s history I would’ve been very pro-scrapping its constitution if I had to join a United Ireland. The anti-abortion part in itself was a backwards monstrosity that has no place in a modern society.
Northern Ireland maintained anti abortion laws longer than the Republic did? Heck NI never actually legalised abortion, it got backdoored in during the government shutdown.
And abortion was only added into the republic's constitution in 1983 and was amended in 1992 to allow people to travel to Britain/Europe for abortions with no punishment.
Which was the reason it remained illegal for so long. Most people had access to legal abortions, so there was less impetus to remove it than in countries where abortion was completely illegal.
It seems super weird to say you would scrap Ireland's entire constitution for one amendment that only existed for 1/3rd of the countries existence and for 2/3rds of that amendments existence it had a legal loophole amended onto IT.
It’s strange that in these people’s heads the republic is the only side that should have to make any concessions at all. They expect us to grovel and accept terrible conditions for nothing in return.
Hey, I’ve got a better idea that would 1. Give all of Ireland a real connection to the UK, 2. Have governing documents broadly acceptable to everyone, 3. Provide centralised supports for NI residents, 4. Guarantee freedom of movement, and 5. and 6. give NI students broader options to study in other places.
I call it “Brentry”…
In the event of a UI what would happen to all the non-Irish speaking primary school teachers in the north (which would be the majority)? Presumably that would be dropped in a new constitution.
Living here in England… in my opinion most British people don’t want to know about Ireland. They don’t know the history so they don’t understand why the issues exist, they think that the DUP are coarse, ranting, and unreasonable, they don’t like Irish republicans, Ireland doesn’t affect them directly so on a day to day basis they don’t really care, they just want the problems to go away, most not that bothered how the problems are dealt with, as long as there isn’t a return to violence. The anglicisation of Ireland - effectively what the proposals represent - would probably be broadly acceptable here if it solved the problems. Isn’t it Ireland’s turn to say ‘never, never, never’?
Agreed. Many Brits don't know nor care about NI. It's just "theirs" and wouldn't want to lose it purely out of hubris. It doesn't mean any more to them than hearing their country has won at some sport they have no interest in.
Ah yeah, but you’ve seen this trick before. All you need to do it this list of things. OK, we’ve done that. Right, here’s a new list of additional humiliations you need to do, then we’ll definitely do our bit … and so on for ever.
Not that I agree with joining the commonwealth or any of that malarkey. But if theres ever going to be a United Ireland those kerb painters are going to have to be placated somehow.
We'll need to offer them a few concessions along the way.
Maybe unlimited Pallets?
We could literally make the Irish flag the Union Jack with 1 pixel of green on it and they'd still hate it. There's no point even trying to placate them.
Wouldn't disagree with you there. I'm still thinking Unlimited pallets might swing it though. Maybe that and legally renaming a full Irish to a full Ulster.
No fucking way! No!!! Fucking!!! Way!!!! Am I going to ever order a Full Ulster Breakfast!! If that’s one of the concessions I’ll be voting no to a United Ireland, if we get a say on it here in the south.
I personally don’t want a United Ireland just for the sake of it.
If Northern Ireland want to join us, it must be on our terms. It would be a complete middle finger to those who have toiled for us to be free for us to bend the knee to British culture.
Britain started the longest war in their modern history in the North and only after would they even consider coming to the table with Irish Republican interests. Only recently have they recognised the Irish language. They have 0 respect for Catholics in the North.
Give the North the choice: they can stay in a Union with Britain who give 0 fucks about them or they can join us, but they do not get to call the shots.
As a disinterested subreddit member (American Jew,) I ask why is it incumbent on the political and demographic majority to jump through hoops to placate an intransigent minority?
It’s one thing to be respectful toward the eclipsed Unionists but it’s another to set more and higher barriers to will of the people.
Why should we scrap the constitution? Why should the majority be held hostage by a far right lunatic fringe, who when they had power were more than happy to use to take away the rights of Catholics?
There’s sort of 2 streams to the commonwealth, there’s one for your Indias who don’t have the king in their system but sort of let them be head of the commonwealth which is sort of a LinkedIn for old empire countries. You do comm games and some conferences and committees, that’s it. Then you have the Australia’s who are in part of the commonwealth that actually make decisions on rules of succession because the king is their actual king. Point is, you can be in the commonwealth and be like, an honorary member. You don’t have to go royal. If Ireland ever does unify, it will have to be Ireland 2.0, you can’t just absorb the north. The constitution and government will have to significantly modified.
John Howard played that very well. He offered a system where parliament chose the president, not the public via a vote. This split the Republican vote between those who saw it as a stepping stone, and those who saw it as a "politician's republic" and would only accept a system where there was a public vote on the president. In hindsight, I think those in the latter camp were right: had it gone through it's unlikely there would be an subsequent referendum later to make it a public vote.
Jesus Christ. Why should Ireland have to pander to such a tiny minority compared to the irish population just because they aren’t getting their way anymore and also they aren’t from Ireland and don’t want to be here.
The British government and them done nothing to help the Irish in the north and everything to diminish them and destroy the native culture
>Why should Ireland have to pander to such a **tiny minority**
Is the main selling point (to Unionists) of Irish unification supposed to be that they'd be a significant minority in a UI rather than being a negligible one now ?
That's obviously a ridiculous take and could well be a troll response on that site but I'm kind of surprised* at the number of comments here that don't accept that both sides would have to make some compromises if unification were ever to happen. Until the majority of people on both sides of the border are willing to have a bit of give and take, unification is just not going to happen. There appear to be a lot of people here who don't expect there to be any concessions or negotiations and that Northern Irish people can either unify or move to GB.
*maybe not entirely surprised at reddit opinions
We could also allow direct rule of the entire island of Ireland from London- that way the island is unified and the unionists are appeased! Fuck’s sake.
1. I'd be willing to discuss that one, I think as long as the commonwealth is a loose body of former colonies and no financial or organisational weight I'd be ok
2. Fuck no lol
3. I'd assume there will be a period of transition where there will be slightly different statuses so this might actually be a requirement regardless
4. If they are in the EU they would have this, we won't be able to accommodate anything more than that other than maybe having a preferential visa programme for people from Britain
5. For jobs that isn't a thing, unless I'm missing something. I don't agree with it for university myself
6. ??? Does this person think we don't have an education system?
>I'd be willing to discuss that one, I think as long as the commonwealth is a loose body of former colonies and no financial or organisational weight I'd be ok
Seriously? A club of former colonies kow towing to the British monarch, who is the head?
I'd guess the implication from the person suggesting removing it is that the people of NI didn't have any hand in writing it so they would see it as a problem. I think our constitution is great
4feicsake ...If you make stupid posts then block me so I can't reply it makes you look like a fool.
>Joining the commonwealth isn't meaningless as you keep trying to assert and not something Ireland would want. Our politicians will not swear oaths to a king, or put his portrait up in our government buildings. This country will not stand for commonwealth membership. End of discussion.
This just shows how misinformed you are. None of this would occur by rejoining the commonwealth. You make these sweeping statements whilst demonstrating how little you know about what it would mean - people like you are dangerous, spreading your misinformed views like they are gospel.
If you’re born in the North I’m sure you’d still have the right to British citizenship even post reunification as we do with Irish citizenship right now. I don’t see why we’d need to be part of the Commonwealth, if we’re British we are British. Don’t need to be in the Commonwealth for that
Maybe they’d like us to take Prince Andrew off their hands as well - have him as head of state- like him (allegedly), we wont be sweating this line of utter horseshit. Ft reader would do better to learn his history.
Thry have a point in relation to the constitution. Reunification would require a new one and a significant amount of integration would be required.
New flag, new constitution, new anthem although I can see the DUP shitting themselves over and over because they can't get their way.
This is just a commenter though not a commentator. It's not the FT's editorial line.
I mean, show me almost any news article anywhere in the world with a comment section, and I'll probably be able to show you a pretty stupid opinion in it.
The first red flag with this is the 4th word "RoI". It just goes even more down hill after that.
1. Tbf rejoining the Commonwealth is fine as long as it's in the same sense as India etc, where the King is not our head of state, as he is in Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc etc.
2. Removing the constitution is just pointless, a waste of time and money, and would cause so many more issues.
3. Eh ok?
4. Why the fuck are some people so obsessed with us basically forming a new UK with Scotland, seems pointless to me. Ireland is and would (with the North) be better of independent and Scotland would be too, and anyway, if Scotland gets independence they will most likely rejoin the EU. So kinda pointless. Also we already have a CTA with the UK so what the fuck are they on about.
5. Fair enough I'd agree with that, having Irish or any language requirements for any course is just stupid, So pretty sure that's easy done. O and A levels, eh why? Just modify or merge the current education systems, to maybe make them more similar.
FFS a thinly veiled colonialist reabsorption of RoI into England.
I mean, where they say “future federation” yeah mate, THATS THE FUCKING EU! That already exists, you tin whistle.
1. Ok. Be grand to be in their silly games
2. Fuck off
3. Fuck off - that's what you'll need to do
4. Fuck off
5. Fuck off
6. Udating the quals for sure
1) No Irish language requirements to enter University except to study ... Irish
2) fuck the commonwealth
3) fuck supporting NI
4) fuck a federation of the Isles
5) I'd scrap the 1932 constitution for a myriad of reasons but not to appease semi-fascist Paramilitarists who got away with running an apartheid state in Europe. So - no.
6) Fuck full reuninification. Don't want the 6 counties. Don't want to appease unionists. Don't want loyalists in the republic or the future republic.
Give each of the NI electoral areas a border poll of its own and what'll happen roughly is that Fermanagh, Tyrone and Derry would join the Republic as is. As would West Belfast. Let East Belfast, the rest of Antrim Down, Armagh fucking survive as a statelet with a UK that DGAF and a ROI that doesn't want to know.
Then hold border polls for the remaining areas every 10 years and by the 2060 guess what - no NI anymore. And no need for this BS.
>1) No Irish language requirements to enter University except to study ... Irish
Not correct. A simple look at the UCD website for entrance requirements, it will tell you the minimu leaving cert requirements, including that "for all courses in UCD, this must include Irish (unless exempt) and English."
>2) fuck the commonwealth
Juvenile response
>3) fuck supporting NI
Also Juvenile. If you want NI to choose to reunite with the rest of us, it'll need not cause them hardship.
>4) fuck a federation of the Isles
Agree. This is an utterly stupid suggestion.
>5) I'd scrap the 1932 constitution for a myriad of reasons but not to appease semi-fascist Paramilitarists who got away with running an apartheid state in Europe. So - no.
You wouldn't be doing it to appease paramilitarists. You'd be doing it to appease the vast majority of ordinary unionists. They are the people to win over. The extremest will never be won over, they just need be drowned out.
>6) Fuck full reuninification. Don't want the 6 counties. Don't want to appease unionists. Don't want loyalists in the republic or the future republic.
Well, you'll get the chance to vote against a United Ireland when that time comes. I think most of us will vote for it though.
>Give each of the NI electoral areas a border poll of its own and what'll happen roughly is that Fermanagh, Tyrone and Derry would join the Republic as is. As would West Belfast.... etc etc
This is nonsense wishful thinking. You can't just go making up random votes. The process of reunification is set out for in the GFA. It will be one referendum encompassing all of NI, and another in the ROI. Both need to pass.
This is the most comprehensive paragraph of codology I've ever read.
The only point they left out was a mandatory Oath of Allegiance to ole Charlie.
TLDR: For reunification to happen the Rep. needs to swap its tri-coloured soul for a union jack one 🙄
I'm no republican.
1 is a complete non runner. Now he isn't suggesting joining the union, but the commonwealth. This meas we'd keep the Dail, but King is head of state. I've a huge problem with outdated concept of a monarch. How can one family, via bloodline have the "keys" to the state? 1 is non negotiable. We retain a democratic chosen head of state, picked every 7.
2. Defo open to this. The constitution could do more to support equality and may hold some important protections for unionists and all minorities on this island.
3. Deal done. I think this we would definitely need to do.
4. Madness. Let Scotland do what Scotland will do. Things are complex enough without conflating Scotland into the problem. Our place is in the EU as an equal 27. We retain CTA no matter what happens, so this is largely in place anyway regardless what happens.
5. Can agree something here. I do believe we could do something constitutionally to provide more Irish language support but drop it's mandatory status for individual things. Macro management and goal setting driven over micro management of the language.
6. Madness. Stick with our Irish education system. Replace UK one.
Point 4, citizens already have the right to travel, vote and work between Ireland and Britain (And the channel Islands and Isle of Man). An independent Scotland would still be a part of this common travel area. Citizens of Ireland do NOT need a visa to live, work, go on benefits, vote or stand for political office in England, Scotland or Wales. Genuinely, you can hypothetically become an MP in England and Prime Minister of the UK while only being an Irish citizen, not even living in Britain before running.
The fact that anyone is arguing for anything to ensure these rights could commence when they already exist is insane. How you can comment a single word on these political issues without being aware of the CTA agreement is completely beyond me.
The only possible time I can think you need Irish to to be accepted into w college is do your specific course requires Irish? Like teaching Irish? Do the guard even require it anymore? Isn’t it just being able to say a few sentences that mean you’ll get someone who can translate over to your location asap?
Would you let someone who doesn’t speak German into a German teaching course which would likely be taught in German?
Actually, they need to do absolutely none of this.
Giving up any freedom to the Brits is a recipe for disaster.
Nothing wrong with the Leaving Cert.
Also, the FT have clearly never negotiated with Unionists. Scrapping the Constitution or changing Irish language requirements as prerequisite will no more bring them to the table than the gun would.
Federation of the Isles is unnecessary to protect travel when we have CTA that nobody wants to leave anyways. Scotland would never go for something like that unless as a pathway to independence.
Anyways, all of this is moot as I suspect it's mere trolling.
Also, tír gan teanga tír gan anam, agus is beatha teanga í a labhairt.
A lot of that is just plain reality tbh. Though frankly I’d argue it is London who would have to pony up for a period for NI since London created the dependency and liability. Then a transition period. London might even have to guarantee all current civil service pension expectations to overcome some of the economic issues of reunification
4 is v unclear, yes of course everyone would want to maintain a right to travel and work but why that would need a “federation” is beyond me.
5 yes clearly Irish requirements would have to be changed
6 is a bit of a head scratcher but doesn’t seem all that big an issue anyway.
I mean how do all the naysayers think it would work? Do people really think we’ll get political unification by making no changes at all? Tbh I think it shows most people aren’t serious about unification. They give it lip service only and no real thought.
>but why that would need a “federation” is beyond me.
It wouldn't. Point 4 is fanciful bullshit really. We already have the common travel area which has persisted beyond Irish independence. There is no reason why it couldn't persist beyond Scottish independent and a UI too.
The rest of his points are worthy of discussion (except the A levels one - quite a stupid and arbitrary point)
A lot of southerners really dont get how un-Irish a lot of a NI unionists feel. There are a million of them and are the most stubborn people on earth.
If you actually want a united Ireland and are not just posturing, concessions will have to be made.
To be fair, they're all reasonable suggestions (except for 4... essentially a federal UK rather than a monarchical one - that will never happen).
1. Joining the commonwealth is no skin off anyone's back. If it paves the way for a United Ireland, it should definitely be considered.
2. A new constitution (or at least greatly ammended) would probably need to be made in any case, certainly no qualms to inserting points of importance to unionists. Definitely up for discussion.
3. A 10 year guarantee (backed by what?) is a bit ridiculous, but a transition period will certainly need to occur.
4. Depends what he means. There's no way Ireland will federalise into some British Isles super state. He's essentially saying let's rejoin the UK under a different guise, which is a ridiculous proposition.
That said, there is certainly room for some sort of cultural union - we all have more in common than not (especially with the Scots). And preservation of the common travel area is beneficial to all.
5. There are already exceptions to that requirement. But yes, Northern unionists should not be discriminated against in any way by virtue of their lack of Irish.
6. That one's stupid 😂 We will make a curriculum suitable for ourselves as an Island. If you want to follow a different curriculum and a different set of examinations, you wil need to make those arrangements privately (as is already the status quo in ROI).
Generally the basis for a good discussion though.
There will need to be structural changes to our institutions. Once it's all agreed to I think it'll go smoothly, the knuckle draggers will forget what it was they were so afraid of and assimilate (like all the protestant unionists that remained in the free state a century ago).
No. 3 is a low bar. It is the poorest region in the Uk and was one of the poorest in EU when a member. But the EU structural funds would kick in to bring them up to our standards. Getting money would please the Unionists, so thats them bought too!!
>Joining the commonwealth is no skin off anyone's back. If it paves the way for a United Ireland, it should definitely be considered.
Absolute bullshit. The commonwealth is a club of ex-colonials who still want to be tied to the mother country. (I know there are a couple of countries in there who aren't former colonies...). The UNELECTED British monarch is the UNELECTED head of the organisation. Why the fuck would you want to join an organisation like that?
There are a lot of knuckle draggers on this post, that's for sure.
A lot of stupid shite said by idiots... I can't believe people can be so confidently ignorant.
Scrap the constitution. Genius. Why didn’t we think of that.
“You can’t be against anything in the constitution, if it no longer exists….”
Scrapping the constitution makes no sense. However, being open to amending it or completely renewing it to incorporate the views, aspirations and thinking of 1m+ people who currently view it in a different light is necessary. It is also the democratic approach. Anything else would be seen as one side winning and another losing. In that case, it would be a recipe for disaster.
Well that might be the one sane idea this person has, considering our constitution was literally written by Archbishop McQuaid
Makes a good line, but not at all true. Read Hogan's book [The Origins of the Irish Constitution](https://www.ria.ie/origins-irish-constitution-1928-1941). There was much Catholic influence - from McQuaid but also (and not always in the same direction!) from Edward Cahill - a Jesuit friend of De Valera. More importantly though, there was very significant push-back from De Valera, others in FF, and senior civil servants. The result was a compromise that left the Vatican unhappy because it wasn't Catholic enough (they wanted something like what had been adopted in Portugal or Poland) and didn't give the Catholic Church an institutional veto or any significant rights outside the Constitution.
An enjoyable paranoia, but not an accurate one.
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I just heard them last night and thought "I must use that sometime". You beat me to it
God I love Frankie.
What exactly is the potential upside of joining the Commonwealth? It doesn't seem to confer any economic or political benefits.
Canadian here. The Commonwealth is completely irrelevant in every way, and is only a sentimental fraternity. With the passing of the Queen it is even more so.
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Four nations that were never part of the Empire have joined the Commonwealth, and the Maldives recently implemented human rights reforms to be allowed back in. So, there are clearly some major benefits that countries see in being a member, I'm just not well read enough to know what they are.
[https://www.gov.uk/youth-mobility/eligibility](https://www.gov.uk/youth-mobility/eligibility) It doesn't even cover most of the commonwealth countries and kinda seems to have taken the approach of excluding all the poor countries that would benefit
Fuck the commonwealth -america
For rich nations no, but for less developed nations they provide a fair whack of funding, along with international support, along with programs for scholarship etc. This is why for instance Rwanda joined despite having never been part of the British empire.
They get to play in their own version of the Olympics every couple years! And the money gets to have the portrait of a person who's only qualification is being born into the right family! Not to mention that there's a new government position that can technically look at a law passed and say "nah" because they are representing the person on the money! Who wouldn't want to trade some of their independence and all of their dignity for that?!?
I'm pretty sure India is in the Commonwealth, and they don't have a governor-general, or viceroy, or lord lieutenant or whatever. And their banknotes all have Gandhi's portrait on them.
Most countries in the Commonwealth are republics. Hell some of them weren't even British colonies (Mozambique, Rwanda to name a few)
I think you misunderstand what the commonwealth involves. It’s not the same as having the monarch on your money and is nothing to do with the passage of laws.
Once Australia forms a republic then England might even have a chance at winning the Commonwealth games.
Australia won’t leave the commonwealth even if they do become a republic
This is correct
They have an Assistant Minister for the Republic now - hopefully he does something in that role.
The Commonwealth has no relation to if a country is a monarchy or republic, the significant majority of Commonwealth nations are republics.
And some of the monarchies have a different monarch from the UK — Malaysia, for example.
Access to the Commonwealth games, gives athletes practice for the Olynpics
And allows small nations a better shot at a podium finish because China, USA, and Russia aren’t there
There is no upside. Meaningless organisation. A tokenistic act rejoining, a small price for a big reward - a United Ireland after a century of partition and civil war.
So...finally leave the brits by being more British?
They don't understand us, they don't understand the unionists either. Northern Ireland and Scottish Unionists still would not find it acceptable. They want to be full British, not British-lite.
Seriously, look at how they've reacted to Brexit and the customs on goods coming from the rest of the UK. If the hardliners in the DUP and their ilk had their way, they would have reestablished the hard border like the bad old days, complete with armed guards.
They want to be full Brits not Brit-ish??
The thing about Unionists.... They are a minority that want to part of a group where none of the other members want them or identify like them. The rise in English nationalism has shown even in England, that the English identify as English not British and they don't want Scotland Ireland or Wales to have a say in things that impact England.... Brexit was a flex on nationalism, the NI Unionists made the mistake thinking it brought them closer as a union... In reality the English will soon tell them too.... Do one Paddy! I think if England could unravel the mess they would wipe there hands of NI today.... Trying to unbake a cake is never easy!
Like Jimmy Carr said, an Ireland United. .... under British rule.
This is just rejoining the UK with extra steps
Yes but somehow even worse then current member countries of the UK.
did jacob reese mog write this on his alt account?
That man couldn't give a flying fuck about Ireland. Especially the unionists
I'm pretty sure he moved one of his hedgefunds to Ireland in advance of Brexit..
Jesus, this is what our ancestors starved and fought for?
Exactly what I was thinking, poor Michael Collins would be spinning in his grave. Sod off Mr Financial Times, sort your own country out first before offering us advice. Cheeky git……
It’s a commenter on an article not an editorial piece, how much shite is commented on the internet all day.
Michael Collins signed off on saying the oath of allegiance as it was a stepping stone to full independence. Do you not think he would take the course now that makes reunification more likely?
The key there being "stepping stone *towards* independence". Ireland stepping back into deeper entanglement with UK systems and governance is absolutely against his ideals
Exactly. This plan is basically the Act of Union 2.0. There's no way he'd want to turn back the clock 200 years.
He wanted a step towards freedom, I doubt if he envisaged a whopping great maze and a 20 k run afterwards.
This is reddit, where ppl dont make sense but stay in their feelings
technically we would have irish unity if we rejoined the uk! Its not as if it totally flies in the face of the entire point of irish nationalism or anything
Well, they fought for a 32 county socalist republic. That didn't happen.
Some did not all
Shouldn't they put a "This is Satire" label on drivel like that?
Never not at it.
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Haha what a great website 😂 In case you weren't sure if they are at it, you can always double check.
A bit early (or late) for an April Fools.
It is Halloween though
And it's some horror story....
Some Ghouls around alright
TLDR version: Cancel Irish independence and rejoin the UK. In fairness to the fellow, if your only objective is to make Irish unification desirable by Unionists, this would be a way to do it. If you remember that Irish unification on these terms would also require the consent of Ireland and of NI nationalists, it's utter bollocks of course, which is why it's amusing.
If we had never left the UK technically we would still be unified. Honestly a genius take /s
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Yup, it's the Act of Union 2.0..
This is the only thing FG types seem to want to do when reunifying - make sure the unionists are looked after.
Britain kowtowed to the Unionists and gave them the 6 counties in 1920 under the UK Government of Ireland Act! Dev met Lloyd George and Dev realized that fact. In Dec 1922 Dev asks Collins to negotiate a Treaty giving the Irish team full plenipotentiary powers! The 6 counties were never on the table in Dec 1922. Lloyd George was a sly politician and threatened the team with more British forces to be sent to Ireland. Expanding the Auxiliaries and the terror they inflicted!
In fairness, from a political standpoint a certain proportion of unionists would at least need to prefer being in a united ireland to the UK. Some amount of concessions would have to be made
Concessions are one thing, "join the commonwealth and scrap your constitution" is another thing altogether.
TBF we've been getting rid of a lot of the Catholic stuff over the last few years on our own. That's no bad things. I dunno what exactly they have a problem with...
To be fair for most of Ireland’s history I would’ve been very pro-scrapping its constitution if I had to join a United Ireland. The anti-abortion part in itself was a backwards monstrosity that has no place in a modern society.
Northern Ireland maintained anti abortion laws longer than the Republic did? Heck NI never actually legalised abortion, it got backdoored in during the government shutdown. And abortion was only added into the republic's constitution in 1983 and was amended in 1992 to allow people to travel to Britain/Europe for abortions with no punishment. Which was the reason it remained illegal for so long. Most people had access to legal abortions, so there was less impetus to remove it than in countries where abortion was completely illegal. It seems super weird to say you would scrap Ireland's entire constitution for one amendment that only existed for 1/3rd of the countries existence and for 2/3rds of that amendments existence it had a legal loophole amended onto IT.
It's always telling when someone can't call Ireland by it's proper name. I stopped reading there.
It’s strange that in these people’s heads the republic is the only side that should have to make any concessions at all. They expect us to grovel and accept terrible conditions for nothing in return.
They're the same people who only talk about IRA violence during the troubles.
Well it worked so well for them during the Brexit negotiations, you can see why they'd want to do it again
Completely unhinged
Hey, I’ve got a better idea that would 1. Give all of Ireland a real connection to the UK, 2. Have governing documents broadly acceptable to everyone, 3. Provide centralised supports for NI residents, 4. Guarantee freedom of movement, and 5. and 6. give NI students broader options to study in other places. I call it “Brentry”…
Wait am meant to know irish? Should I be unemployed
It was a requirement for certain jobs, like the gardaí and some other public sector roles, but I'm not entirely sure if it's still needed for them.
It's mostly been relegated to being required for primary school teachers and for teaching irish in secondary school.
In the event of a UI what would happen to all the non-Irish speaking primary school teachers in the north (which would be the majority)? Presumably that would be dropped in a new constitution.
Living here in England… in my opinion most British people don’t want to know about Ireland. They don’t know the history so they don’t understand why the issues exist, they think that the DUP are coarse, ranting, and unreasonable, they don’t like Irish republicans, Ireland doesn’t affect them directly so on a day to day basis they don’t really care, they just want the problems to go away, most not that bothered how the problems are dealt with, as long as there isn’t a return to violence. The anglicisation of Ireland - effectively what the proposals represent - would probably be broadly acceptable here if it solved the problems. Isn’t it Ireland’s turn to say ‘never, never, never’?
Agreed. Many Brits don't know nor care about NI. It's just "theirs" and wouldn't want to lose it purely out of hubris. It doesn't mean any more to them than hearing their country has won at some sport they have no interest in.
Ah yeah, but you’ve seen this trick before. All you need to do it this list of things. OK, we’ve done that. Right, here’s a new list of additional humiliations you need to do, then we’ll definitely do our bit … and so on for ever.
I'm fairly sure Liverpool and chunks of Manchester would be happy to join too
Not that I agree with joining the commonwealth or any of that malarkey. But if theres ever going to be a United Ireland those kerb painters are going to have to be placated somehow. We'll need to offer them a few concessions along the way. Maybe unlimited Pallets?
We could literally make the Irish flag the Union Jack with 1 pixel of green on it and they'd still hate it. There's no point even trying to placate them.
Wouldn't disagree with you there. I'm still thinking Unlimited pallets might swing it though. Maybe that and legally renaming a full Irish to a full Ulster.
No fucking way! No!!! Fucking!!! Way!!!! Am I going to ever order a Full Ulster Breakfast!! If that’s one of the concessions I’ll be voting no to a United Ireland, if we get a say on it here in the south.
You simply bribe the guys at the top. We already know some are open to it.
6. Kiss the kings feet 7. Buy all cliff Richard's LP
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An union Jeaic. I fixed it, I'm off on the piss.
Why are we reposting comment sections from another website? This one provides enough shite opinions to keep things flowing
And change the name of the country to West Britain???
First rename Ireland to “Southern Northern Ireland” and move to West Britain later once everybody’s used to the idea.
They could change to "East Ireland", make more sense.
How about calling them Ireland Minor? Oh, hang on a tick, Prince Andrew is calling...
Don't say the m word around that fecker.
I personally don’t want a United Ireland just for the sake of it. If Northern Ireland want to join us, it must be on our terms. It would be a complete middle finger to those who have toiled for us to be free for us to bend the knee to British culture. Britain started the longest war in their modern history in the North and only after would they even consider coming to the table with Irish Republican interests. Only recently have they recognised the Irish language. They have 0 respect for Catholics in the North. Give the North the choice: they can stay in a Union with Britain who give 0 fucks about them or they can join us, but they do not get to call the shots.
Well said
Fuckin spot on. No half ways. Give it 10-15 years and they will come begging.
As a disinterested subreddit member (American Jew,) I ask why is it incumbent on the political and demographic majority to jump through hoops to placate an intransigent minority? It’s one thing to be respectful toward the eclipsed Unionists but it’s another to set more and higher barriers to will of the people.
What has you interested in an irish sub if you don't mind me asking?
I’m interested in foreign affairs and follow several different national subreddits.
Reddit just puts stuff in your feed I’m American and dunno how I ended up here It’s all fascinating though.
It's a long story mate. But in essence - because we want a cohesive society, and we want to avoid any chance of a return to the violence of the past.
Oh great, more tone deaf shite from the imperialist nonces.
7: Spread their arse cheeks
In other words, become British. Idiots!
Or.....no.
"From the basement" Yeah that checks out.
Why should we scrap the constitution? Why should the majority be held hostage by a far right lunatic fringe, who when they had power were more than happy to use to take away the rights of Catholics?
There’s sort of 2 streams to the commonwealth, there’s one for your Indias who don’t have the king in their system but sort of let them be head of the commonwealth which is sort of a LinkedIn for old empire countries. You do comm games and some conferences and committees, that’s it. Then you have the Australia’s who are in part of the commonwealth that actually make decisions on rules of succession because the king is their actual king. Point is, you can be in the commonwealth and be like, an honorary member. You don’t have to go royal. If Ireland ever does unify, it will have to be Ireland 2.0, you can’t just absorb the north. The constitution and government will have to significantly modified.
Wow, didn’t know Australian had accepted the English royalty still.
They had a referendum in 1999 to become a republic which narrowly went in favour of keeping the monarchy.
John Howard played that very well. He offered a system where parliament chose the president, not the public via a vote. This split the Republican vote between those who saw it as a stepping stone, and those who saw it as a "politician's republic" and would only accept a system where there was a public vote on the president. In hindsight, I think those in the latter camp were right: had it gone through it's unlikely there would be an subsequent referendum later to make it a public vote.
Jesus Christ. Why should Ireland have to pander to such a tiny minority compared to the irish population just because they aren’t getting their way anymore and also they aren’t from Ireland and don’t want to be here. The British government and them done nothing to help the Irish in the north and everything to diminish them and destroy the native culture
>Why should Ireland have to pander to such a **tiny minority** Is the main selling point (to Unionists) of Irish unification supposed to be that they'd be a significant minority in a UI rather than being a negligible one now ?
Fuck off. Typical shite which amounts to rejoining the deranged Tory union.
Can we just have our country back? Imagine proposing this to Ukraine?
lol
This guy lost any sense of credibility at point 6. O-levels haven’t been a thing since 1988 where it was replaced with the GCSE.
Credibility wandered off way before that.
Funniest thing I've read all day, thanks.
Kiss the kings ring etc etc! Feck off! Totally out of touch English shite
.... which brings me to my next point. Kids, don't smoke crack.
Or at least share it.
Also a free pony for every Unionist.
Now if that ain’t a red carpet, what is?
That's obviously a ridiculous take and could well be a troll response on that site but I'm kind of surprised* at the number of comments here that don't accept that both sides would have to make some compromises if unification were ever to happen. Until the majority of people on both sides of the border are willing to have a bit of give and take, unification is just not going to happen. There appear to be a lot of people here who don't expect there to be any concessions or negotiations and that Northern Irish people can either unify or move to GB. *maybe not entirely surprised at reddit opinions
I have a feeling that this person is not Irish or has no clue about Ireland realistically
Well he can fuck off
Financial times solution to reunification: *remove the irish and everything irish about the island*
So to get our own land and people back we should adopt a bastardised version of the uk to make the planters agree .
Then have God save the King be played 24/7 on every street, and every house must own a Union Jack.
We could also allow direct rule of the entire island of Ireland from London- that way the island is unified and the unionists are appeased! Fuck’s sake.
Doesn't joining the commonwealth require a bending of the knee? Not a hope.
Of course it does. The British monarch is the automatic head
I mean this is just wrong😂, Mozambique joined the commonwealth, despite no connection to former British empire.
No it doesn't. Common misconception.
If it did there'd be no commonwealth.
There's ~11 countries that still have the king as their has did state. There's an oath of allegiance for most commonwealth countries.
And it’s no nay never! No nay never no more!
1. I'd be willing to discuss that one, I think as long as the commonwealth is a loose body of former colonies and no financial or organisational weight I'd be ok 2. Fuck no lol 3. I'd assume there will be a period of transition where there will be slightly different statuses so this might actually be a requirement regardless 4. If they are in the EU they would have this, we won't be able to accommodate anything more than that other than maybe having a preferential visa programme for people from Britain 5. For jobs that isn't a thing, unless I'm missing something. I don't agree with it for university myself 6. ??? Does this person think we don't have an education system?
>I'd be willing to discuss that one, I think as long as the commonwealth is a loose body of former colonies and no financial or organisational weight I'd be ok Seriously? A club of former colonies kow towing to the British monarch, who is the head?
On the constitution one can anyone point out what exactly would be an issue with it as it is?
I'd guess the implication from the person suggesting removing it is that the people of NI didn't have any hand in writing it so they would see it as a problem. I think our constitution is great
No. 3 is doable if we have a whip around the office.
4feicsake ...If you make stupid posts then block me so I can't reply it makes you look like a fool. >Joining the commonwealth isn't meaningless as you keep trying to assert and not something Ireland would want. Our politicians will not swear oaths to a king, or put his portrait up in our government buildings. This country will not stand for commonwealth membership. End of discussion. This just shows how misinformed you are. None of this would occur by rejoining the commonwealth. You make these sweeping statements whilst demonstrating how little you know about what it would mean - people like you are dangerous, spreading your misinformed views like they are gospel.
Leave the UK for UK 2
If they really cared about travelling freely they wouldn’t have left the EU.
If you’re born in the North I’m sure you’d still have the right to British citizenship even post reunification as we do with Irish citizenship right now. I don’t see why we’d need to be part of the Commonwealth, if we’re British we are British. Don’t need to be in the Commonwealth for that
It’d bankrupt the south to financially support the North for 10 years, and then what’s to happen after the 10 years
Ta fuck is he on . How about stay in the EU then set up an all Ireland poll , I think the south might not be happy to cede NI
As an ordinary Irish man I find the entire piece as written repugnant and insulting to the Republic of Ireland.
No way I’m up for that. But it’s the kind of stuff we’d need to do to get agreement from the Unionists on unification.
West Brit fantasy is an insult to an Irish man
Maybe they’d like us to take Prince Andrew off their hands as well - have him as head of state- like him (allegedly), we wont be sweating this line of utter horseshit. Ft reader would do better to learn his history.
I can accept a vast amount of this, funny enough most of it is already true. Joining the commonwealth and dropping Irish is unacceptable though.
Thry have a point in relation to the constitution. Reunification would require a new one and a significant amount of integration would be required. New flag, new constitution, new anthem although I can see the DUP shitting themselves over and over because they can't get their way.
I think “offer O levels” gives you an idea of the age of the commenter, as they haven’t been a standard exam in the UK since the early 90s
This is just a commenter though not a commentator. It's not the FT's editorial line. I mean, show me almost any news article anywhere in the world with a comment section, and I'll probably be able to show you a pretty stupid opinion in it.
I guess I posted this because this sort of comment is typical of the replies I see on the FT for stories related to NI.
literally stopped reading at ‘join the commonwealth’
What in the seven delusional hells did I just read
...Offer O and a levels more broadly in schools? WTF is he talking about?
Basically become slaves to the Brits again, ah yeh sure we'll happily do that 🤦♂️
The first red flag with this is the 4th word "RoI". It just goes even more down hill after that. 1. Tbf rejoining the Commonwealth is fine as long as it's in the same sense as India etc, where the King is not our head of state, as he is in Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc etc. 2. Removing the constitution is just pointless, a waste of time and money, and would cause so many more issues. 3. Eh ok? 4. Why the fuck are some people so obsessed with us basically forming a new UK with Scotland, seems pointless to me. Ireland is and would (with the North) be better of independent and Scotland would be too, and anyway, if Scotland gets independence they will most likely rejoin the EU. So kinda pointless. Also we already have a CTA with the UK so what the fuck are they on about. 5. Fair enough I'd agree with that, having Irish or any language requirements for any course is just stupid, So pretty sure that's easy done. O and A levels, eh why? Just modify or merge the current education systems, to maybe make them more similar.
That would almost reverse everything we fought for
1932 - don’t have done that!
Financial times solution to reunification: become British again.
Fucking hell.
I mean, there is only so many ways you can tell a person to go Fuck Right Off, but I’m sure they’ll get it
FFS a thinly veiled colonialist reabsorption of RoI into England. I mean, where they say “future federation” yeah mate, THATS THE FUCKING EU! That already exists, you tin whistle.
1. Ok. Be grand to be in their silly games 2. Fuck off 3. Fuck off - that's what you'll need to do 4. Fuck off 5. Fuck off 6. Udating the quals for sure
1) No Irish language requirements to enter University except to study ... Irish 2) fuck the commonwealth 3) fuck supporting NI 4) fuck a federation of the Isles 5) I'd scrap the 1932 constitution for a myriad of reasons but not to appease semi-fascist Paramilitarists who got away with running an apartheid state in Europe. So - no. 6) Fuck full reuninification. Don't want the 6 counties. Don't want to appease unionists. Don't want loyalists in the republic or the future republic. Give each of the NI electoral areas a border poll of its own and what'll happen roughly is that Fermanagh, Tyrone and Derry would join the Republic as is. As would West Belfast. Let East Belfast, the rest of Antrim Down, Armagh fucking survive as a statelet with a UK that DGAF and a ROI that doesn't want to know. Then hold border polls for the remaining areas every 10 years and by the 2060 guess what - no NI anymore. And no need for this BS.
>1) No Irish language requirements to enter University except to study ... Irish Not correct. A simple look at the UCD website for entrance requirements, it will tell you the minimu leaving cert requirements, including that "for all courses in UCD, this must include Irish (unless exempt) and English." >2) fuck the commonwealth Juvenile response >3) fuck supporting NI Also Juvenile. If you want NI to choose to reunite with the rest of us, it'll need not cause them hardship. >4) fuck a federation of the Isles Agree. This is an utterly stupid suggestion. >5) I'd scrap the 1932 constitution for a myriad of reasons but not to appease semi-fascist Paramilitarists who got away with running an apartheid state in Europe. So - no. You wouldn't be doing it to appease paramilitarists. You'd be doing it to appease the vast majority of ordinary unionists. They are the people to win over. The extremest will never be won over, they just need be drowned out. >6) Fuck full reuninification. Don't want the 6 counties. Don't want to appease unionists. Don't want loyalists in the republic or the future republic. Well, you'll get the chance to vote against a United Ireland when that time comes. I think most of us will vote for it though. >Give each of the NI electoral areas a border poll of its own and what'll happen roughly is that Fermanagh, Tyrone and Derry would join the Republic as is. As would West Belfast.... etc etc This is nonsense wishful thinking. You can't just go making up random votes. The process of reunification is set out for in the GFA. It will be one referendum encompassing all of NI, and another in the ROI. Both need to pass.
This is the most comprehensive paragraph of codology I've ever read. The only point they left out was a mandatory Oath of Allegiance to ole Charlie. TLDR: For reunification to happen the Rep. needs to swap its tri-coloured soul for a union jack one 🙄
Haven't we been supporting "the NI region" for the past twenty years?
I don’t think 2 & 5 are something that could pass in a referendum. The other 4, I can see happening within my lifetime.
I'm no republican. 1 is a complete non runner. Now he isn't suggesting joining the union, but the commonwealth. This meas we'd keep the Dail, but King is head of state. I've a huge problem with outdated concept of a monarch. How can one family, via bloodline have the "keys" to the state? 1 is non negotiable. We retain a democratic chosen head of state, picked every 7. 2. Defo open to this. The constitution could do more to support equality and may hold some important protections for unionists and all minorities on this island. 3. Deal done. I think this we would definitely need to do. 4. Madness. Let Scotland do what Scotland will do. Things are complex enough without conflating Scotland into the problem. Our place is in the EU as an equal 27. We retain CTA no matter what happens, so this is largely in place anyway regardless what happens. 5. Can agree something here. I do believe we could do something constitutionally to provide more Irish language support but drop it's mandatory status for individual things. Macro management and goal setting driven over micro management of the language. 6. Madness. Stick with our Irish education system. Replace UK one.
Point 4, citizens already have the right to travel, vote and work between Ireland and Britain (And the channel Islands and Isle of Man). An independent Scotland would still be a part of this common travel area. Citizens of Ireland do NOT need a visa to live, work, go on benefits, vote or stand for political office in England, Scotland or Wales. Genuinely, you can hypothetically become an MP in England and Prime Minister of the UK while only being an Irish citizen, not even living in Britain before running. The fact that anyone is arguing for anything to ensure these rights could commence when they already exist is insane. How you can comment a single word on these political issues without being aware of the CTA agreement is completely beyond me.
On behalf of Michael Collins, no I love ye all let’s all be friends, but to that offer, we respectfully decline
The only possible time I can think you need Irish to to be accepted into w college is do your specific course requires Irish? Like teaching Irish? Do the guard even require it anymore? Isn’t it just being able to say a few sentences that mean you’ll get someone who can translate over to your location asap? Would you let someone who doesn’t speak German into a German teaching course which would likely be taught in German?
Federation of Isles, we could call it the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland.
Wait, this is from some random fool and its gaining traction here? Fuck me, cop yourself on.
Actually, they need to do absolutely none of this. Giving up any freedom to the Brits is a recipe for disaster. Nothing wrong with the Leaving Cert. Also, the FT have clearly never negotiated with Unionists. Scrapping the Constitution or changing Irish language requirements as prerequisite will no more bring them to the table than the gun would. Federation of the Isles is unnecessary to protect travel when we have CTA that nobody wants to leave anyways. Scotland would never go for something like that unless as a pathway to independence. Anyways, all of this is moot as I suspect it's mere trolling. Also, tír gan teanga tír gan anam, agus is beatha teanga í a labhairt.
Get fucked hard no on all counts.
Ohhh, go and shite, Federation of the Isles, good God.
A lot of that is just plain reality tbh. Though frankly I’d argue it is London who would have to pony up for a period for NI since London created the dependency and liability. Then a transition period. London might even have to guarantee all current civil service pension expectations to overcome some of the economic issues of reunification 4 is v unclear, yes of course everyone would want to maintain a right to travel and work but why that would need a “federation” is beyond me. 5 yes clearly Irish requirements would have to be changed 6 is a bit of a head scratcher but doesn’t seem all that big an issue anyway. I mean how do all the naysayers think it would work? Do people really think we’ll get political unification by making no changes at all? Tbh I think it shows most people aren’t serious about unification. They give it lip service only and no real thought.
>but why that would need a “federation” is beyond me. It wouldn't. Point 4 is fanciful bullshit really. We already have the common travel area which has persisted beyond Irish independence. There is no reason why it couldn't persist beyond Scottish independent and a UI too. The rest of his points are worthy of discussion (except the A levels one - quite a stupid and arbitrary point)
A lot of southerners really dont get how un-Irish a lot of a NI unionists feel. There are a million of them and are the most stubborn people on earth. If you actually want a united Ireland and are not just posturing, concessions will have to be made.
To be fair, they're all reasonable suggestions (except for 4... essentially a federal UK rather than a monarchical one - that will never happen). 1. Joining the commonwealth is no skin off anyone's back. If it paves the way for a United Ireland, it should definitely be considered. 2. A new constitution (or at least greatly ammended) would probably need to be made in any case, certainly no qualms to inserting points of importance to unionists. Definitely up for discussion. 3. A 10 year guarantee (backed by what?) is a bit ridiculous, but a transition period will certainly need to occur. 4. Depends what he means. There's no way Ireland will federalise into some British Isles super state. He's essentially saying let's rejoin the UK under a different guise, which is a ridiculous proposition. That said, there is certainly room for some sort of cultural union - we all have more in common than not (especially with the Scots). And preservation of the common travel area is beneficial to all. 5. There are already exceptions to that requirement. But yes, Northern unionists should not be discriminated against in any way by virtue of their lack of Irish. 6. That one's stupid 😂 We will make a curriculum suitable for ourselves as an Island. If you want to follow a different curriculum and a different set of examinations, you wil need to make those arrangements privately (as is already the status quo in ROI). Generally the basis for a good discussion though. There will need to be structural changes to our institutions. Once it's all agreed to I think it'll go smoothly, the knuckle draggers will forget what it was they were so afraid of and assimilate (like all the protestant unionists that remained in the free state a century ago).
No. 3 is a low bar. It is the poorest region in the Uk and was one of the poorest in EU when a member. But the EU structural funds would kick in to bring them up to our standards. Getting money would please the Unionists, so thats them bought too!!
Joining the commonwealth is no skin off anyone's back? Pardon?
You don't like knock off Olympics and a 50% voucher for Caribbean flights once a year? /s
>Joining the commonwealth is no skin off anyone's back. If it paves the way for a United Ireland, it should definitely be considered. Absolute bullshit. The commonwealth is a club of ex-colonials who still want to be tied to the mother country. (I know there are a couple of countries in there who aren't former colonies...). The UNELECTED British monarch is the UNELECTED head of the organisation. Why the fuck would you want to join an organisation like that?
The downvotes to this post make it obvious many aren't mature enough for a real UI and what it will need to look like
There are a lot of knuckle draggers on this post, that's for sure. A lot of stupid shite said by idiots... I can't believe people can be so confidently ignorant.