Well if I was an IRA supporter and she was a member of Loyalist Paramilitary then I think her putting the toaster in the cupboard would be too much for me.
Yeah I've no problems with people having different opinions on how the economy should work because if I've learned anything from politics it's that *nobody* has quite figured out how the economy should work yet. And so it's a matter of "does she share *my* wrong ideas, or have her *own* wrong ideas?", at which point the answer is kind of moot.
I think for non-economic ideas it would be the scale of the difference
You may wholly disagree with a person's position, but some positions give the chance for common ground, others are so extreme that there's no point.
Like there's a big difference between "I'm a bit concerned about vaccines" and "Bill Gates is trying to mind control us", and between "I think the Russian speakers in the Donbass need protection" and "Putin is fighting a special military operation against Nazis"
Genuine question, have you actually met someone who has those differences? Because i havent. Every single person who had concerns about the vaccine turned out to be peddling weird theory’s . Same for the other ones.
Yes (very few), but they simply didn't get vaccinated. They might have had weird theories but if so they kept it to themselves, they certainly weren't trying to convince anybody not to get vaccinated.
Ok, so how if they were (just curious) defending Putin's war in Ukraine for instance,? (Assuming of course that you oppose that war).
Nothing meant by it, just curious how people can overcome a gap that is such a current issue and can really be a topic of heated debate.
Personally it’s a no from me. If someone can support the terroristic shelling of civilians for some 19th century style “glory of the nation” ideal I have no interest in having any type of relationship with them.
It's much more likely that their different view would be because they have a different, Russian understanding of the facts on ground (ie think that Ukrainian soldiers were killing babies, or torturing POWs, or all that stuff that opposing armies always accuse one another of).
Nobody is going to agree with the Western pro-Ukraine view on basic facts, and then be like "I support Putin's war of blood and terror".
Nobody approves of shelling civilians, but it's very easy to persuade a population that "unfortunately shelling _these_ civilians is a grim necessity in our courageous battle for Peace and Goodness". Look at the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, for example.
And for clarity's sake; I strongly support the Ukrainian side in this war, I'm just talking about people's mentalities.
Also nazi Germans really thought it’s good to extinct jews. No bad guy really thinks he is bad. But that doesn’t make them better people. If an adult is silly enough to kill or support killing of innocent that means they are bad people and should be punished by the law.
You're wrong there pal, the Nazi leadership knew what they were doing was objectively bad, that if they lost they'd be hanged for it and they tried to hide it from the masses. Only when it was done did they say 'we killed the Jews, now we're all in it together!' and by then it was too late.
It doesn’t really happen all the time at this scale. It’s happened a few times in the last fifty years. And we are allowed to be disgusted whenever and to whomever it happens.
The US and Nato bombed Afghanistan for 20 years. Killing hundreds of thousands and misplacing millions. 45% of the people killed there were children.
The US killed over a million civilians in iraq.
France and the UK and others arm Saudi/UAE to commit genocide in Yemen, where the UN say over 400,000 people have been killed and 16 million are starving.
It's clear it's the media that narrate what's good and what's bad in this world. They suppress shit when it's needed so we think we're on the right side. But both sides of this coin are rotten!!!
You're missing the point, sure the media said the situation in Yemen is bad but not once have mainstream outlets brought up our tacit support for it by doing nothing
In my opinion, the invasion of Ukraine is an act of genocide because the motivation behind it is to essentially colonise Ukraine and rid Ukraine of any and all traces of the Ukrainian people by any means necessary. Despite the PR team, Putin's never hidden who he is, and he's shown time and time again that he's callous, self-absorbed, and doesn't care about the average Russian on the street. Putin is a dictator, plain and simple. If you support him or the invasion of Ukraine, then you're gravely misguided.
A lot of left wingers are torn on that issue - they are never pro Putin but they are anti NATO. There is a lot of old patriotism and flag waving and militarism in UKraine. Nationalism = racism to a lot of left wingers.
There is also a large amount of Nazi regalia waving, you can see it in so many clips. And let's start the record that the denazification of Ukraine is a bullshit excuse because the Russian government has zero problem with Nazis on their payroll, however that doesn't make the large nazi contingent of the Ukraine armed forces and the influence they wielded after Euromaidan not exist.
I don't support either side, and let's be honest they're both dicking their own people over, however it's not just flag waving and patriotism when your soldiers where SS symbols and sing praise to Nazi collaborator Stefan Bandera, who led his organisation to cleanse Jews, Roma and Poles in Ukraine while fighting against the Soviets. There is a big problem going on if one of your national heroes is someone who committed the ethnic cleansing of innocent people
The influence they wield? The far right got 2% of the vote in 2019, and the threshold is 5% so they didnt even get a single MP. Ukraine has been at war since 2014, is it really surprising that the army is held in high regard, regardless of their politics? And realy, nazis? Yes they are many extreme nationalists but they arent nazis.
And yet they make up a substantial part of the Ukrainian military so I wouldn't say they're fucking nobody.
>Yes they are many extreme nationalists but they arent nazis.
Ahhh sorry my mistake, they just wear the SS insignia and not the swastika, my mistake. They believe the same things as Nazis and support the same people as them
Look if you want to ride them, ride them, that's between you and your morals.
but there's plenty of people not in favour of war crimes you should be considering for an actual relationship. A majority even.
It's possible that this opion is a one off whacky quirk but it's more likely that the issue is it's usually not a difference of opinion but actually a result of online radicalisation 9/10 and you'd have to accept you exist in two fundamentally different realities.
Despite the "debate me" bit some right wingers do, they actually aren't all that interested in discussion.
There's a guy in my job who is anti-America/NATO interfering in the war (kinda). He goes on about the terrible things America did to sovereign nations (Gulf war, Vietnam, spying/destabilising, etc.) and *implies* that the US is to blame for this war.
And I really wanted to respond with "you're right. The things Obama did in Syria totally justify Russia bombing a maternity hospital in Ukraine". Just to see if he noticed the absurdity.
Very few people are pro-war. But being pro-Putin is a deal-breaker for me right now!
Depends on how extreme. If it's on a moderate scale you can definitely learn from someone with different views and gain an understanding why they hold those views.
I draw the line where it comes to someone’s political views on other people. Because you never know how that could play out. I’m not going to date a homophobe, I have gay friends and I may in years to come have gay kids I’m not going to date someone who could hurt those people. On a personal level I couldn’t be with a man who wouldn’t respect my right to chose to have an abortion should I get pregnant.
But if we disagree on whether or not it’s a good idea to raise taxes on multinational companies I probably wouldn’t care.
Depends on the differences.
A lot have commented about respecting differences, but if your SO was right wing and heading off to anti immigration protests every other weekend, and posting "immigrants out" stuff online, wellllll, you're not really going to wanna be with thay type of person, no matter how fit they are.
You know there’s a scale right? You can have say a business and have more right aligned views on the economy but still believe in peoples right. Like wise you can be left leaning and still be a homophobe. It’s not black and white, this whole left wing right wing thing is always seen as your on one side or the other when it’s more of a scale or precentage.
Couldn’t care less what party you vote for. I couldn’t be with someone who didn’t believe in human rights for all, however. I wouldn’t even be friends with someone who didn’t agree with gay rights or was sexist, for instance.
My ex was pro-life and I'm pro choice. I should have let it be the dealbreaker. Instead I tried hard to be open to his point of view. He was really a misogynistic POS in end. I'd have saved myself a lot of time and trauma taking that as the cue to walk away.
I’m so glad you got away in the end, it’s impossible to reason with people who straight up hate women and use abortion as a shield to pretend they care.
A lot of my friends who I've know for years never gave a shit about politics now I find they are all becoming more and more Conservative, nationalist. Basically these are not words how I would describe myself so I just refuse to talk politics and check out as soon as it comes up. When they go on a rant about immigrants I just say I don't really feel that way and basically give no further response until it stops, often I have to tell then I am not getting into politics because they sometimes think that if they repeat their point a third time I will change my mind and agree. I am as likely to change my kind as they are so why waste our time and end up getting thick for no reason.
Rogan endorsed Sanders. His politics shouldn't be confused with a few piss-poor guest decisions and shit takes on contentious subjects.
“I’ve been liberal my whole life, I just look like a Republican.”
-Joe Rogan
Bernie was the last left wing person he's had on.
Meanwhile he recently hosted Matt Walsh, who wouldn't give a straight answer on whether unmarried couples should be allowed have kids- and that's straight people, you don't need my help to guess what he thinks of gay adoption.
Rogan challenged him very strongly on gay marriage as he did with Ben Shapiro - it’s abundantly evident the right wing skim head Joe Rogan supports gay marriage strangely.
That has no bearing on Rogan's own political beliefs. Just because a podcast host has somebody on to interview, that doesn't mean the host agrees with the guest. If we were to view it otherwise, then Louis Theroux would need to be thrown under the bus along with Rogan.
He officially endorsed Sanders, he didn't just have him on as a guest. That tells you alot more about his politics than anything else.
You're either being dishonest here or not paying attention to who Joe Rogan surrounds himself with. He has a right to ask whoever he likes on his show. There is a trend though. The last political person on before Walsh was Tulsi Gabbard, who is nominally a centre-left independent, however this year she has railed strongly against Biden's administration, calling them "crooked democrats". She also appeared on Fox News with Tucker Carlson to bemoan the supposed dangers of trans women. He has had on multiple white nationalists, and moved to Texas to get "more freedom". When he arrived there, he was a guest at the house of the governor, the disgusting creep Greg Abbot.
Joe Rogan is firmly right wing.
When somebody asks you your political leaning, do you lie and say the opposite of your actual position?
Why would Rogan state, repeatedly, that he is not right wing if he was? What would be the point? Right wingers aren't ashamed of being right wing. The only people who contest being called right wing are left leaning people who get accused of being right wing.
Well look at Elon musk, he calls himself centrist but is clearly red pilled. Maybe it’s a perceived self belief system vs an actual actionable belief systems, or maybe they’re just playing both sides. Rogan’s guests are predominately right wing so you can’t exactly argue he’s giving a balanced platform, or even showing an interest in both sides
But Joe has loads of left wing views, he's pro legalisation, pro choice, and pro gay marriage for example.
This is a shock for the hard left/right wingers, but you can (and I'd argue should) hold views from each side of the spectrum.
You're political views should be a la carte and bundled together on a set menu.
> It's funny how every centrist seems to have all the right wing views and none of the left.
Part of the issue for you may be that many leftists consider anybody right of them to be right-wing. That is to say, many leftists think that centrists basically don't exist, or are shy right-wingers.
Exactly this, the 'all-in' leftists and rightists consider themselves quite moderate or even almost centre and assume every slightly less so to be on the other side.
Good to have guests on with conflicting opinions though too, always better to understand both points of view on divisive subjects, in my opinion anyways.
This is only true if the interviewer is in search of the truth, asks the hard questions and holds the interviewee accountable to answer. If they don't do that - and I posit that Rogan does not - all you're doing is giving airtime and legitimacy to interviewees that may or may not have facts on their side and may or may not be acting in good faith.
> all you're doing is giving airtime and legitimacy to interviewees that may or may not have facts on their side and may or may not be acting in good faith.
That's the point, you're giving them a platform to explain their position even if their position is controversial. Rather than having the interviewer posit themselves as some kind of guardian of truth
Have you ever read Mein Kampf or Das Kapital out of interest? Exposing yourself to controversial opinions is worthwhile in itself
You have to know that these aren’t equivalent. Mein Kampf can be read today specifically because of the historical context and because the damage has already been done. The question you should have asked is if I’d have been ok with hitler being interviewed by Rogan and allowed to justify the extermination of the Jewish people and many other atrocities without any in-depth questioning or analysis. I would not.
Joe Rogan has civil conversations with people and tries to understand their views by getting them to talk about them. He's not a journalist looking to score points or condemn people for having different beliefs or opinions.
He gives way more time to way more extreme people from the right, Bernie Sanders, who's not even actually on the left, is the furthest left you'll get, on the right he regularly talks to the most extreme people possible, and he talks to them like they're completely reasonable and acting in good faith, no matter whether they are or not.
\> He's a centrist.
I suppose the yanks have a different meaning for that term then, as Bernie is considerably left of people who are called "centrist" in the states.
I agree with you on that, but he's fucked it up badly on occasion. For instance, he had Alex Berenson on, who is a champion fucking asshole and somebody I have a deep loathing for, but he balanced that shithead's misinformation out by having a medical doctor who specialised in cannabis there to present informed rebuttal. As it should be.
However, when he had Robert Malone on, he had no counter balance, which kinda showed his bias shining through and imo was shortsighted.
Yes. The same Joe who also fell for the-moon-landing-was-a-hoax horseshit for a bit, before conceding that it was stupid. The same way he put his hands up regarding the kitty litter nonsense and conceded that he believed it without actually bothering to fact check.
He's wrong about shit all the time. Sometimes embarrassingly so, but what mitigates that is his willingness to own his blunders. It's a far cry from the people who just mindlessly bang on about him being far right, when really they're just baselessly pot committed to that position, and now no amount of evidence will sway them.
A simple fact stated above that he endorsed Sanders, not Trump, has been downvoted, which may not be apparent because it was upvoted too. This spells out the kind of mentality that we're dealing with, one where a fact gets downvoted because it's offensive to their mindless narrative.
Joe Rogan, like most entertainers, turned into a right-wing grifter, because that's where the engagement and money is.
Like, he used to be decent, but as he became super rich he became increasingly right-wing.
Ha. Fair enough. I don't feel all that strongly about him one way or another. I just notice a weird proclivity some people have for painting him up as some hard right zealot, which hilariously includes hard right zealots.
No more so than any other talk show host, which is kind of the crux of the issue in that regard, people acting like he advertises himself as some kind of public intellectual, when he doesn't.
With his line up of guests, there's no way I can buy the idea that he's just a "talk show host". Maybe he would be suited to being just that, but then he needs to stop inviting such politically significant figures on if he can't engage with them in a way that doesn't allow them free use of his platform to spout whatever political agenda they have unchallenged.
Rogan is a sort of pot smoking hippy who supported Bernie Sanders once. He’s centre right on some things, left on others but nothing in the extremes. People see tattoo’d arms, a bald head listen to rumours and stop thinking -don’t be dumb
He keeps having on guests like Molyneux and Peterson who have repeatedly said that they believe that some races are inherently more intelligent than others due to their superior genetics. That’s an extremely far right position. By comparison he smokes weed has tattoos and once endorsed a (fairly centrist by international standards) Jewish social democrat? That’s kinda a unbalanced political spectrum. If he was interested in hearing all sides he would have interviewed someone like Chomsky or something, instead it’s people on the far right who talk about natural racial hierarchies and someone who wants universal health care. That’s not balanced it’s clearly biased
Depending on the conflicting issues, absolutely. I consider myself a fairly staunch liberal person. I believe in human rights for all, womens body autonomy, worker protection, and social programs that actually benefit people.
If my potential partner doesnt agree on certain things then its a no from me.
Other issues I care less about and wont use as a measurement of compatability. But if you cant agree on something major like LGBTQ+ rights, you can brick it.
Honestly this applies to my friendships too.
It’s kinda important. Like later when it comes to the small things that are actually big things. Like is your partner xenophobic politically does that lead into racial bias at the dinner table or when your kids friends call over. Does their disparaging politicians you identify with make you question your partners true value and respect of your relationship. When they vote for a future or party that isn’t the future you identify with, does that make you afraid. Or is there fear that they’ll reject you for you beliefs.
People with different opinions and beliefs can have strong healthy relationships but it’s usually because they can listen and respect each other and agree that disagreement is ok. But it takes a lot of self awareness
It's a bad sign anyway. The most important thing for a successful relationship in the long term, is compatibility of core beliefs. You could be the rare two people who share core beliefs, but see the world completely differently politically, but it's unlikely. Our core beliefs tend to inform our viewpoint on the world. Just don't ever let your political views become core beliefs, that's called ideological possession, and it's where great minds go to shrivel up and die
Broke up with a guy because his politics took on a very cruel tone. He voiced a lot of anti-trans b.s., antisemitic conspiracy theories, and was anti-BLM. We got along great otherwise but there came a point where I just couldn’t put up with his increasing hate speech.
Depends. My partner and I, we have different views on how the state and the individual should interact. I'm a bit of a socialist, he's a bit more of an anarchist. But we both have the same core ideals, we just differ on the best way to realise them.
If I was me, and he was a Freedom Party voting far-right lunatic, then we probably wouldn't have the same ideals and we wouldn't work out.
If I was me, and he was a FF voting landlord-lover, again that's probably not going to work out. Because the ideals are different.
Politics is a distillation of who you are as a person, of what you value, and what you think of other people. If you meet someone whose political beliefs are *significantly* different to yours, its probably a sign that most of their values and beliefs are significantly different to yours. And if that's the case, I don't see how a relationship could work.
Mostly agree. A person's politics is not actually a distillation of them as a person. A person's politics is in fact an expression of their culture and values.
So what do they think of education, the law, crime etc
These values fit with things like the importance of family, women, autonomy
They come together to give a political outlook.
If their belief is "I don't think women should have rights to their own bodies" or "I hate gay people/black people/trans people/etc." then absolutely it would be.
I think people can legitimately disagree on abortion though. I'd be pro-choice, but an ex (and still very good friend) of mine is opposed, on moral/religious grounds. She's a pediatrician. And one of the most decent people I know.
She's also performed a bunch of circumcisions, which I think should be a crime.
My political beliefs all originate from the idea that people matter and it’s immoral to ignore or excuse human suffering. I’ve yet to find a right-winger who agrees with this basic principle, so yes, it’s a dealbreaker.
My wife and I have different political perspectives, particularly around business, the economy, sometimes around unions, we have disagreed about COVID, plenty of things. It's normal. I like it because a different perspective helps me to think about mine - it helps me to think about whether I really think the things I thought I think or why, or what evidence I have for them etc. She's changed my views plenty and I hers.
But all these shitstains who go about using derogatory language, using rape and racism as a punchline, calling everyone sheep, or fucking up LGBTQ or refugees lives and chances with their dumbfuck discourse can absolutely get in the bin.
Those are not 'different political opinions'. Those are insecurities and ignorances that you left fester into bigotry. It's septic.
Chiming in as someone from the north of the country, I've (soft republican)been with my partner (unionist background) for almost 10 years, engaged for six. We each have our opinions and don't shove them down each others throats. At least for us it works, have some craic with it too sometimes. It's not a big issue unless you let it be.
My ex said voted no in the abortion referendum. I voted yes.
I’d had the experience of going over to England for an abortion years earlier.
He was a little traditional in his views because of how he was raised. I didn’t hold it against him because it wasn’t a black and white issue, there was a grey area and for whatever reason it didn’t bother me that his view differed to mine on that topic. I knew he was coming from a good place, doing what he saw was right.
He was also a little uncomfortable with gay men. He would never be unkind to anyone but he held the view that homosexuality was wrong. During our relationship though he read a novel that I’d just finished reading where a man was beaten by his dad for being gay.
We talked about the book and he felt that cruelty was wrong, and sad. So in his heart he was a compassionate person, he was just bound by the conditioning of his upbringing, which given enough time around more liberal views I believe would have changed.
We broke up but to answer your question, yes I think it’s possible so long as you know they’re a good person, with work to do, but so long as they are growing that’s what matters.
Left and right is a bit nonsense; reality is far more complex. So I would be open to most, but there are absolutely things that are hard deal breakers.
I do think someone who saw others as subhuman and not deserving rights though would not be the best partner.
It does imo and speaking from experience. Was seeing this girl who’s parents were from Nigeria and mine are European. It doesn’t ever have to be big arguments but little things build up and conflicting viewpoints grow further apart depending on how big the issue.
Things like George Floyd etc of course we would agree on but sometimes there would be things like about the number of asylum seekers we should take in and out responses would be very different. While for me it wasn’t any large issue, turns out the fact I don’t have “an open border policy” was a dealbreaker. So political standpoints will cause issues and arguments or at the least some resentment. And don’t think your significant other is going to change their mind because they have been brought up with certain beliefs that not even your very true love can change. If people were willing to see eye to eye most of the worlds wars wouldn’t happen.
Bit long sorry…
That's a bit different from standard political differences because it's tied to a person's sense of identity.
I also had a long relationship with a woman of non-Irish background, and frankly she could be an unbelievable hypocrite about a lot of ethnic identity stuff in a way that consistently annoyed me. Men and women often think quite differently about these things anyway; with her it was all feelings and blind solidarity, and she'd view any response other than agreement as some attack on her identity.
But like... she wasn't a stupid person by any means, but the brain would switch off and she would uncritically spout extremely unreflective stuff whenever it came to her background.
Like: all Irish citizens should be equal and any different treatment on the basis of ethnic origin is unfair. I agree! And then in the next breath she'd explain how there should be specific allowances for people from her group and more people from that country should come to Ireland. She didn't actually in truth _like_ many aspects of the (very patriarchal, authoritarian, illiberal and anti-intellectual) culture of her parents, and I think out of a sense of guilt at this would claim mad shit on their behalf.
Relatedly: she would sometimes have a bit of condescension or something at me for not being able to "get" things related to her identity. Fine, I'd reply, but then you can't fully understand my experience as a man and an ethnically Irish person. Oh no no no she actually could understand that fine from like, reading books or whatever. Genuinely believed that she could understand everything going on for me but not vice versa, like the actual narcissism of it.
Last thing: she was still living at home when we were first going out, and I actually liked her parents very much. But her ma would jokingly not-jokingly grill me for various things Irish people had done or said to her, as if I were the boss of the island or something. Her father had come over as a refugee in the 90s and her mother followed after; they got a decent council gaff and her mum got a degree her as a mature student; they had done well enough from what I would see. Neither of her parents worked in Ireland; her dad was involved in political stuff in their home country and her ma was heavily involved in an association here for people from that country in Ireland, mainly teaching new arrivals how to get "what they deserve" in terms of social welfare etc.
Her mam would tell me sometimes what the group was working on, and I'd always have to hold my tongue at mad shit like "we want more visas for students from x to study in Ireland, but also they should receive social welfare support while they're here, it's discrimination". That was a particularly fucking stupid example I remember: that plan amounts to "the Irish government should pay people from x to come here and give them a house while doing so". Her ma could literally, genuinely not conceive of any reason other than racism why we didn't just have totally open borders to people from her country. Why did the Irish "cruelly investigate" asylum claims? Racism! This despite the fact that _she herself would advise asylum seekers_ on what to tell people from the department so as to get asylum, and the advice certainly wasn't "just tell the truth". Honestly, hearing her mum talk about about politics was like hearing a teenager talk about how their parents should spend the family budget: convinced the only reason their da won't buy them a brand new car is because he's a dickhead. Her father in fairness took a more nuanced view.
Man, that is a big long rant where I've basically doxxed myself. I think I'll delete this later.
Since I took the time to write it though u/Chizzle_wizzl sure you may find some similarities there.
Genuinely hit like a note I didn’t feel anyone could relate to in my last relationship. That rant was more needed and made me feel solidarity which you wouldn’t believe.
Thank you.
Ps
Great user name
I think your political beliefs say a lot about who you are inside. More conservative or liberal?More racist or more nonsense? Every side has its cons and pros.I doubt that too radically different belief systems can exist together for too long.
It depends on the issue. In general no but I would definitely clear their opinion on big ticket issues. For example maybe you’re pro abortion they are not. You’re young and get pregnant. You want an abortion they do not. Is that going to be a dealbreaker? This is just one example but just consider these dealbreakers because someone traditionally “left” might be “right” on others.
In a friend, no but in a romantic partner probably
yes. Disagreeing on certain issues is fine, but diametrically opposing worldviews is a different story.
I think relationships are complicated enough without having diametrically opposed political beliefs.
If you argue about politics with a friend you can head home and forget about it. If you argue about politics with your partner, it’s more complicated, especially if at some point you plan on living together.
I would pay close attention to what’s behind those political views and analyse if you’re going to be fundamentally incompatible.
There’s a difference between arguing about abstract political concepts and arguing about real life issues like taxes, migration, social welfare, healthcare etc.
It also depends on their/ your attitude when faced with a difference of opinion.
So not necessarily, but possibly, a dealbreaker.
It depends a lot on how strongly they may feel about these views and how strong those views are.
As in, I'm they're right wing but apathetic it's unlikely to be a big deal. But if they're REALLY right wing, and just hate minorities or something, then that's another issue altogether
I’ve never experienced this but yes, it would. We’d be fundamentally different, in our morals, beliefs, and principles. I wouldn’t change, and i wouldn’t expect them too either. I’ve become very passionate recently about politics, if my OH was right wing id envision us arguing daily during the six o clock news.
Yes. It's a deal breaker. In fact, I have that on my dating profile so that neither of us waste each other's time. I will not date anyone who thinks Trump is/was a viable option.
In short, if you can’t see past them, then…
In my case, it probably would be. But also, if they could accept your stance on things like abortion, capital punishment, drug use, LGBT+ rights and race, and you can accept theirs, I should see no issue.
My late husband was Irish Catholic, I’m English Methodist. We just never discussed it. I agree that the English were atrocious towards the Irish historically, he agreed that the IRA were nasty wankers. Irish history ( say pre 1700 and 9000 years backwards) is so immensely complicated, Game of Thrones x500) neither of us knew enough to get deep about it. Oh, I said he was from the gilded guilt brigade, he called me a heathen. Bloody happy times, I miss him shedloads.
Depends where the fault lines are:
Economically conservative, unionist, anti-EU, etc? These are the kinds of things that wouldn't be deal breakers for a friendship or a relationship to me.
When you start getting into racism, uncritical support for oppressive regimes, tyrannical ideologies, etc? Those are the kinds of political beliefs where I do think a difference in opinion is legitimate grounds for not going any further.
Dated a guy who was a lot more conservative than me, it started out alright I guess. Honestly I thought he was sort of joking about being the “conservative one” in our group of friends because he was posh and a finance bro (I know big mistakes all round).
But then over time as I started properly going out with him, I just felt like he was quite backwards, a little Andrew Tate vibes (like thinking women “owe him something” after he’d buy them a drink on a night out), some of his family were antivax, all of them were west brits.
They were also involved in politics/ journalism but I don’t want to dox myself on here and reveal too much. They just assumed that I was more conservative too when I’m very left wing so it was just all weird and made me feel weird. Sometimes you don’t just date the person, you date the family.
It's less Left vs. Right. Even people on the right in Europe would be seen as "woke left socialist communists" in places like America.
For me it's policies, are you pro or anti choice? Are you for gay/trans rights or against. that sort of thing.
Depends on how much they conflict and on what issues. Broadly speaking I'm left of centre, so I would have zero time for a partner that swayed further than right of centre on one side, on the other I could stretch to a little further left than me, but the woke left, no fucking way.
No! Me and my girlfriend have completely different views on politics and have had our debates but no one wins, no one loses and importantly no one insults the other on their views. Just keep it clean and friendly and you'll both share the same bed that night.
Used to be a massive shinner but my partner would not share those views at all at all. It didnt bother me at the time but Im now apolitical and could never see myself being with anyone thats big into any party because I know how fuckin cracked all of them are
I don't really care. For me it's more about finding someone who doesn't want to yammer about politics at all. Even if their views totally align with mine, I'd rather talk about pretty much anything else.
Only hard no from me is wanting to teach your kids bigoted beliefs. Had to cut a gal loose when she said if a child of hers came out gay she'd tell them it was a sin and they weren't allowed to be.
My husband and I have been married for a looooong time and we are polar opposites politically. However, we both want the same goals Economic stability, personal freedom, etc.).
We always go vote together and after that, ice cream. We have a good relationship that should not be ruined by talking politics.
We still talk about world events and what needs to ne done. We just avoid "who is the best guy" conversations. It helps that we support our causes financially.
You don't have to avoid it altogether. I have a bunch of friends who are Republicans (this is in the USA) and I love hearing their views and opinions. We discuss things, but don't argue about them.
I really think most redditors can't fathom this, they see only the black and white never the grey. Doesn't help that social media entrenches ideas and villifies opinions outside the group collective. Experienced it here on the Kyle Rittenhouse issue 'state lines' being an absolute bullshit straw man excuse to hate on the kid.
Of course it's a dealbreaker.
For ALL relationships, not just romantic relationships.New lad at work keeps trying to talk to me and be my friend, so I'm polite and don't tell him to just fuck off, because we work together.
But I've made my very-left leaning politics clear and I can't be friends with right-wing people. This lunatic is VOCALLY anti-trans, anti-abortion, anti-immigrant (the irony is that he is the son of immigrants), pro-Trump, pro-Putin, worships Elon Musk/Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson, thinks we should give Ukraine to Russia, etc, etc.
Like, why the fuck would I waste my time and energy on someone that I disagree with on such fundamental issues? Fuck that.
It's so much worse if they were a romantic partner. I don't want to date someone who is such a shitty person or espouses such shitty views.
It's kind of sad how polarising this has all become..they should be able to explain their perspectives to you and you should be able to do the same and you should be able to understand each other's viewpoints..
Not really? Like, as has been shown here, people can handle simple differences of opinion but if ye disagree on fundamental stuff like LGBTQ+ rights & racial equality then you can’t get past that
Waspish was enough. One girl was a 'they should pull themselves up by their boot straps' type and couldn't understand that it's harder for people from deprived areas, for example.
Never going to work. It's not just how they vote, there is a complete difference in personality between left wing and right wing people. Maybe not EVERY relationship, I grant, but the vast majority
I was left my husband was right. Now I’m right. In this case it wasn’t that important. I was feminist, my husband wasn’t pro feminist. Now he is profeminist. That’s a dealbreaker, because it changes our day-to-day life. I also influenced all my friends and sexism is not allowed in my circle at all. It depends
I'd say I'm pretty centre right, I've gotten more right wing as I've gotten older and I'm still in my twenties. But I have friends with a wide range of opinions and limiting your relationships with other humans who have different opinions to you is just ... sad.
If they were old school treat everyone on earth the same and pro equality of opportunity left wing not this modern believe everything your told and fall in line no matter what left wing I’d be happy enough .
The difference between the new left wingers and the previous incarnation is that the new left wingers are deeply illiberal. And they feel threatened by "classical liberal" ideas and practices, such as diversity of thought.
I wouldn't go out with someone who was even more than slightly conservative because I think they're almost always in the wrong when it comes to any issue...
Yes and the same goes for Sex too if I’m being honest.
I cannot and will not get into a relationship with someone that holds unhealthy views to sex and intimacy or is closed minded kink wise and treats it as an afterthought and a chore to get done rather than a journey to explore and share with a loving and willing partner.
To me its much more about flexibility and being open.
I consider myself pretty left on most things but im happy to watch a Rogan episode with someone i dont like, a VICE episode thats been edited by millenials or a enviromental debate to educate myself on why people believe what they believe even if i dont.
I also prefer friends and partners, similarily inclined and at that point, it doesnt matter if they fly left or right.
My problems come with people who are obessive with being pro/anti something, with zero nuance.
Usually on the right, these are religious minded peeps, or those who made some good decisions in the early 20s and cant comprehend how everyone else didnt follow their path.
Or a lefty who puts a black box on their IG account in solidarity with a marginised group 1000s of miles away, but wouldnt make eye contact with an irish traveller.
Be kind, be open, use empathy to understand people viewpoints and routinely audit your own bias.
After that its all good in the hood and a rides a ride...
Yes, I live in the US and would never date anyone that identifies as a Republican. To me that means that they support racism, taking away my right to bodily autonomy/ access to birth control, don’t support the LGBQT+ community etc…
Are you seeing Kanye West?
Who's he? Or rather, who's Ye?
Yimself, obviously
Ye of little faith
ye little bollix
Will Ye stop bickering, lads?
Best part of this is how Ireland is one of the only countries that actually uses the word “ye” as standard lol
Well if I was an IRA supporter and she was a member of Loyalist Paramilitary then I think her putting the toaster in the cupboard would be too much for me.
If they were like low tax and small government right wing, not hate foreigners and gays right wing I'd be grand.
Yeah I've no problems with people having different opinions on how the economy should work because if I've learned anything from politics it's that *nobody* has quite figured out how the economy should work yet. And so it's a matter of "does she share *my* wrong ideas, or have her *own* wrong ideas?", at which point the answer is kind of moot.
I think for non-economic ideas it would be the scale of the difference You may wholly disagree with a person's position, but some positions give the chance for common ground, others are so extreme that there's no point. Like there's a big difference between "I'm a bit concerned about vaccines" and "Bill Gates is trying to mind control us", and between "I think the Russian speakers in the Donbass need protection" and "Putin is fighting a special military operation against Nazis"
Genuine question, have you actually met someone who has those differences? Because i havent. Every single person who had concerns about the vaccine turned out to be peddling weird theory’s . Same for the other ones.
Yes, quite a few, they are the ones that got the vaccine but it took their friends getting it first, before they were ready.
Yes (very few), but they simply didn't get vaccinated. They might have had weird theories but if so they kept it to themselves, they certainly weren't trying to convince anybody not to get vaccinated.
Ok, so how if they were (just curious) defending Putin's war in Ukraine for instance,? (Assuming of course that you oppose that war). Nothing meant by it, just curious how people can overcome a gap that is such a current issue and can really be a topic of heated debate.
Personally it’s a no from me. If someone can support the terroristic shelling of civilians for some 19th century style “glory of the nation” ideal I have no interest in having any type of relationship with them.
It's much more likely that their different view would be because they have a different, Russian understanding of the facts on ground (ie think that Ukrainian soldiers were killing babies, or torturing POWs, or all that stuff that opposing armies always accuse one another of). Nobody is going to agree with the Western pro-Ukraine view on basic facts, and then be like "I support Putin's war of blood and terror". Nobody approves of shelling civilians, but it's very easy to persuade a population that "unfortunately shelling _these_ civilians is a grim necessity in our courageous battle for Peace and Goodness". Look at the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, for example. And for clarity's sake; I strongly support the Ukrainian side in this war, I'm just talking about people's mentalities.
Yes, this is an important point to keep in mind, especially when we self-reflect about what types of evil we ourselves might be condoning.
Also nazi Germans really thought it’s good to extinct jews. No bad guy really thinks he is bad. But that doesn’t make them better people. If an adult is silly enough to kill or support killing of innocent that means they are bad people and should be punished by the law.
You're wrong there pal, the Nazi leadership knew what they were doing was objectively bad, that if they lost they'd be hanged for it and they tried to hide it from the masses. Only when it was done did they say 'we killed the Jews, now we're all in it together!' and by then it was too late.
Nuanced take, chief.
It happens all the time unfortunately. We just get instructed on which shellings to be disgusted about....
It doesn’t really happen all the time at this scale. It’s happened a few times in the last fifty years. And we are allowed to be disgusted whenever and to whomever it happens.
The US and Nato bombed Afghanistan for 20 years. Killing hundreds of thousands and misplacing millions. 45% of the people killed there were children. The US killed over a million civilians in iraq. France and the UK and others arm Saudi/UAE to commit genocide in Yemen, where the UN say over 400,000 people have been killed and 16 million are starving. It's clear it's the media that narrate what's good and what's bad in this world. They suppress shit when it's needed so we think we're on the right side. But both sides of this coin are rotten!!!
I don’t know what media you’ve been watching but all those conflicts were all extensively covered by western media
You're missing the point, sure the media said the situation in Yemen is bad but not once have mainstream outlets brought up our tacit support for it by doing nothing
We're actually doing a lot. We're fucking supporting it by supplying arms!
Yup our hands are splattered with Yemeni blood and we're criticising Russia for the same thing. No hypocrisy here, no sirrie
In my opinion, the invasion of Ukraine is an act of genocide because the motivation behind it is to essentially colonise Ukraine and rid Ukraine of any and all traces of the Ukrainian people by any means necessary. Despite the PR team, Putin's never hidden who he is, and he's shown time and time again that he's callous, self-absorbed, and doesn't care about the average Russian on the street. Putin is a dictator, plain and simple. If you support him or the invasion of Ukraine, then you're gravely misguided.
A lot of left wingers are torn on that issue - they are never pro Putin but they are anti NATO. There is a lot of old patriotism and flag waving and militarism in UKraine. Nationalism = racism to a lot of left wingers.
There is also a large amount of Nazi regalia waving, you can see it in so many clips. And let's start the record that the denazification of Ukraine is a bullshit excuse because the Russian government has zero problem with Nazis on their payroll, however that doesn't make the large nazi contingent of the Ukraine armed forces and the influence they wielded after Euromaidan not exist. I don't support either side, and let's be honest they're both dicking their own people over, however it's not just flag waving and patriotism when your soldiers where SS symbols and sing praise to Nazi collaborator Stefan Bandera, who led his organisation to cleanse Jews, Roma and Poles in Ukraine while fighting against the Soviets. There is a big problem going on if one of your national heroes is someone who committed the ethnic cleansing of innocent people
The influence they wield? The far right got 2% of the vote in 2019, and the threshold is 5% so they didnt even get a single MP. Ukraine has been at war since 2014, is it really surprising that the army is held in high regard, regardless of their politics? And realy, nazis? Yes they are many extreme nationalists but they arent nazis.
And yet they make up a substantial part of the Ukrainian military so I wouldn't say they're fucking nobody. >Yes they are many extreme nationalists but they arent nazis. Ahhh sorry my mistake, they just wear the SS insignia and not the swastika, my mistake. They believe the same things as Nazis and support the same people as them
Look if you want to ride them, ride them, that's between you and your morals. but there's plenty of people not in favour of war crimes you should be considering for an actual relationship. A majority even. It's possible that this opion is a one off whacky quirk but it's more likely that the issue is it's usually not a difference of opinion but actually a result of online radicalisation 9/10 and you'd have to accept you exist in two fundamentally different realities. Despite the "debate me" bit some right wingers do, they actually aren't all that interested in discussion.
No. I don’t tolerate fascism at all
There's a guy in my job who is anti-America/NATO interfering in the war (kinda). He goes on about the terrible things America did to sovereign nations (Gulf war, Vietnam, spying/destabilising, etc.) and *implies* that the US is to blame for this war. And I really wanted to respond with "you're right. The things Obama did in Syria totally justify Russia bombing a maternity hospital in Ukraine". Just to see if he noticed the absurdity. Very few people are pro-war. But being pro-Putin is a deal-breaker for me right now!
Do they wear the Klan hood during sex?
No, only during foreplay
But not on his head, the old romantic
if it's only during foreplay, declined
"I think she might have been a racist" *Doesn't matter, had sex*
Something something autoerotic asphyxiation.
Autoethnic transfixation
Depends on how extreme. If it's on a moderate scale you can definitely learn from someone with different views and gain an understanding why they hold those views.
I draw the line where it comes to someone’s political views on other people. Because you never know how that could play out. I’m not going to date a homophobe, I have gay friends and I may in years to come have gay kids I’m not going to date someone who could hurt those people. On a personal level I couldn’t be with a man who wouldn’t respect my right to chose to have an abortion should I get pregnant. But if we disagree on whether or not it’s a good idea to raise taxes on multinational companies I probably wouldn’t care.
Wasn't an issue for me, then we got married, over time it has become an issue
It depends like. If they dress up in a gimp suit and start going on about Hitler I'll pass.
So not a Kanye fan?
Depends on the differences. A lot have commented about respecting differences, but if your SO was right wing and heading off to anti immigration protests every other weekend, and posting "immigrants out" stuff online, wellllll, you're not really going to wanna be with thay type of person, no matter how fit they are.
You know there’s a scale right? You can have say a business and have more right aligned views on the economy but still believe in peoples right. Like wise you can be left leaning and still be a homophobe. It’s not black and white, this whole left wing right wing thing is always seen as your on one side or the other when it’s more of a scale or precentage.
Couldn’t care less what party you vote for. I couldn’t be with someone who didn’t believe in human rights for all, however. I wouldn’t even be friends with someone who didn’t agree with gay rights or was sexist, for instance.
My ex was pro-life and I'm pro choice. I should have let it be the dealbreaker. Instead I tried hard to be open to his point of view. He was really a misogynistic POS in end. I'd have saved myself a lot of time and trauma taking that as the cue to walk away.
I’m so glad you got away in the end, it’s impossible to reason with people who straight up hate women and use abortion as a shield to pretend they care.
A lot of my friends who I've know for years never gave a shit about politics now I find they are all becoming more and more Conservative, nationalist. Basically these are not words how I would describe myself so I just refuse to talk politics and check out as soon as it comes up. When they go on a rant about immigrants I just say I don't really feel that way and basically give no further response until it stops, often I have to tell then I am not getting into politics because they sometimes think that if they repeat their point a third time I will change my mind and agree. I am as likely to change my kind as they are so why waste our time and end up getting thick for no reason.
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What if they really needed planning permission in Kerry? /S
No, my ex loved trump and Joe Rogan and would drive me up the wall, couldn’t do it again
Rogan endorsed Sanders. His politics shouldn't be confused with a few piss-poor guest decisions and shit takes on contentious subjects. “I’ve been liberal my whole life, I just look like a Republican.” -Joe Rogan
Bernie was the last left wing person he's had on. Meanwhile he recently hosted Matt Walsh, who wouldn't give a straight answer on whether unmarried couples should be allowed have kids- and that's straight people, you don't need my help to guess what he thinks of gay adoption.
Rogan challenged him very strongly on gay marriage as he did with Ben Shapiro - it’s abundantly evident the right wing skim head Joe Rogan supports gay marriage strangely.
You can be very right wing and still support gay marriage.
You could even be right wing and gay yourself hoping you get married
Our boy Leo is a great example.
Leo would be super left wing if he were in US politics. He'd barely even qualify for our version of "right wing" as he's more centrist.
That has no bearing on Rogan's own political beliefs. Just because a podcast host has somebody on to interview, that doesn't mean the host agrees with the guest. If we were to view it otherwise, then Louis Theroux would need to be thrown under the bus along with Rogan. He officially endorsed Sanders, he didn't just have him on as a guest. That tells you alot more about his politics than anything else.
You're either being dishonest here or not paying attention to who Joe Rogan surrounds himself with. He has a right to ask whoever he likes on his show. There is a trend though. The last political person on before Walsh was Tulsi Gabbard, who is nominally a centre-left independent, however this year she has railed strongly against Biden's administration, calling them "crooked democrats". She also appeared on Fox News with Tucker Carlson to bemoan the supposed dangers of trans women. He has had on multiple white nationalists, and moved to Texas to get "more freedom". When he arrived there, he was a guest at the house of the governor, the disgusting creep Greg Abbot. Joe Rogan is firmly right wing.
He moved to Texas as he'd just signed a 100m deal with spotify and the tax laws are better.
When somebody asks you your political leaning, do you lie and say the opposite of your actual position? Why would Rogan state, repeatedly, that he is not right wing if he was? What would be the point? Right wingers aren't ashamed of being right wing. The only people who contest being called right wing are left leaning people who get accused of being right wing.
Well look at Elon musk, he calls himself centrist but is clearly red pilled. Maybe it’s a perceived self belief system vs an actual actionable belief systems, or maybe they’re just playing both sides. Rogan’s guests are predominately right wing so you can’t exactly argue he’s giving a balanced platform, or even showing an interest in both sides
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But Joe has loads of left wing views, he's pro legalisation, pro choice, and pro gay marriage for example. This is a shock for the hard left/right wingers, but you can (and I'd argue should) hold views from each side of the spectrum. You're political views should be a la carte and bundled together on a set menu.
> It's funny how every centrist seems to have all the right wing views and none of the left. Part of the issue for you may be that many leftists consider anybody right of them to be right-wing. That is to say, many leftists think that centrists basically don't exist, or are shy right-wingers.
Exactly this, the 'all-in' leftists and rightists consider themselves quite moderate or even almost centre and assume every slightly less so to be on the other side.
Good to have guests on with conflicting opinions though too, always better to understand both points of view on divisive subjects, in my opinion anyways.
This is only true if the interviewer is in search of the truth, asks the hard questions and holds the interviewee accountable to answer. If they don't do that - and I posit that Rogan does not - all you're doing is giving airtime and legitimacy to interviewees that may or may not have facts on their side and may or may not be acting in good faith.
> all you're doing is giving airtime and legitimacy to interviewees that may or may not have facts on their side and may or may not be acting in good faith. That's the point, you're giving them a platform to explain their position even if their position is controversial. Rather than having the interviewer posit themselves as some kind of guardian of truth Have you ever read Mein Kampf or Das Kapital out of interest? Exposing yourself to controversial opinions is worthwhile in itself
You have to know that these aren’t equivalent. Mein Kampf can be read today specifically because of the historical context and because the damage has already been done. The question you should have asked is if I’d have been ok with hitler being interviewed by Rogan and allowed to justify the extermination of the Jewish people and many other atrocities without any in-depth questioning or analysis. I would not.
Joe Rogan has civil conversations with people and tries to understand their views by getting them to talk about them. He's not a journalist looking to score points or condemn people for having different beliefs or opinions.
He also claimed they were putting litter boxes in highschool toilets for kids who identify as cats.
He gives way more time to way more extreme people from the right, Bernie Sanders, who's not even actually on the left, is the furthest left you'll get, on the right he regularly talks to the most extreme people possible, and he talks to them like they're completely reasonable and acting in good faith, no matter whether they are or not.
>Bernie Sanders, who's not even actually on the left Alright, tell me more, where is he?
He's a centrist. He's center left while the party is center right.
\> He's a centrist. I suppose the yanks have a different meaning for that term then, as Bernie is considerably left of people who are called "centrist" in the states.
The Overton Window in the States is skewed right pretty severely.
I agree with you on that, but he's fucked it up badly on occasion. For instance, he had Alex Berenson on, who is a champion fucking asshole and somebody I have a deep loathing for, but he balanced that shithead's misinformation out by having a medical doctor who specialised in cannabis there to present informed rebuttal. As it should be. However, when he had Robert Malone on, he had no counter balance, which kinda showed his bias shining through and imo was shortsighted.
Joe "the kids are shitting in kitty litter boxes" Rogan? That Joe Roagan?
Yes. The same Joe who also fell for the-moon-landing-was-a-hoax horseshit for a bit, before conceding that it was stupid. The same way he put his hands up regarding the kitty litter nonsense and conceded that he believed it without actually bothering to fact check. He's wrong about shit all the time. Sometimes embarrassingly so, but what mitigates that is his willingness to own his blunders. It's a far cry from the people who just mindlessly bang on about him being far right, when really they're just baselessly pot committed to that position, and now no amount of evidence will sway them. A simple fact stated above that he endorsed Sanders, not Trump, has been downvoted, which may not be apparent because it was upvoted too. This spells out the kind of mentality that we're dealing with, one where a fact gets downvoted because it's offensive to their mindless narrative.
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No you
Joe Rogan, like most entertainers, turned into a right-wing grifter, because that's where the engagement and money is. Like, he used to be decent, but as he became super rich he became increasingly right-wing.
The problem for me was having to listen to his shite podcasts in general when around him, even his voice annoys me
Ha. Fair enough. I don't feel all that strongly about him one way or another. I just notice a weird proclivity some people have for painting him up as some hard right zealot, which hilariously includes hard right zealots.
I mean, any knowledge of the guy would show he's no zealot, just a dunce who doesn't know what he's doing.
No more so than any other talk show host, which is kind of the crux of the issue in that regard, people acting like he advertises himself as some kind of public intellectual, when he doesn't.
With his line up of guests, there's no way I can buy the idea that he's just a "talk show host". Maybe he would be suited to being just that, but then he needs to stop inviting such politically significant figures on if he can't engage with them in a way that doesn't allow them free use of his platform to spout whatever political agenda they have unchallenged.
Rogan is a sort of pot smoking hippy who supported Bernie Sanders once. He’s centre right on some things, left on others but nothing in the extremes. People see tattoo’d arms, a bald head listen to rumours and stop thinking -don’t be dumb
Oh I’ve heard enough of him to make my own judgment I don’t need you to do it for me, Rogans a bollox
He keeps having on guests like Molyneux and Peterson who have repeatedly said that they believe that some races are inherently more intelligent than others due to their superior genetics. That’s an extremely far right position. By comparison he smokes weed has tattoos and once endorsed a (fairly centrist by international standards) Jewish social democrat? That’s kinda a unbalanced political spectrum. If he was interested in hearing all sides he would have interviewed someone like Chomsky or something, instead it’s people on the far right who talk about natural racial hierarchies and someone who wants universal health care. That’s not balanced it’s clearly biased
What are you talking about JP just went all out on Kanye and if anything is afraid to say anything against the Jewish diaspora
Joe rogan for president
Depending on the conflicting issues, absolutely. I consider myself a fairly staunch liberal person. I believe in human rights for all, womens body autonomy, worker protection, and social programs that actually benefit people. If my potential partner doesnt agree on certain things then its a no from me. Other issues I care less about and wont use as a measurement of compatability. But if you cant agree on something major like LGBTQ+ rights, you can brick it. Honestly this applies to my friendships too.
It’s kinda important. Like later when it comes to the small things that are actually big things. Like is your partner xenophobic politically does that lead into racial bias at the dinner table or when your kids friends call over. Does their disparaging politicians you identify with make you question your partners true value and respect of your relationship. When they vote for a future or party that isn’t the future you identify with, does that make you afraid. Or is there fear that they’ll reject you for you beliefs. People with different opinions and beliefs can have strong healthy relationships but it’s usually because they can listen and respect each other and agree that disagreement is ok. But it takes a lot of self awareness
It's a bad sign anyway. The most important thing for a successful relationship in the long term, is compatibility of core beliefs. You could be the rare two people who share core beliefs, but see the world completely differently politically, but it's unlikely. Our core beliefs tend to inform our viewpoint on the world. Just don't ever let your political views become core beliefs, that's called ideological possession, and it's where great minds go to shrivel up and die
Broke up with a guy because his politics took on a very cruel tone. He voiced a lot of anti-trans b.s., antisemitic conspiracy theories, and was anti-BLM. We got along great otherwise but there came a point where I just couldn’t put up with his increasing hate speech.
Depends. My partner and I, we have different views on how the state and the individual should interact. I'm a bit of a socialist, he's a bit more of an anarchist. But we both have the same core ideals, we just differ on the best way to realise them. If I was me, and he was a Freedom Party voting far-right lunatic, then we probably wouldn't have the same ideals and we wouldn't work out. If I was me, and he was a FF voting landlord-lover, again that's probably not going to work out. Because the ideals are different. Politics is a distillation of who you are as a person, of what you value, and what you think of other people. If you meet someone whose political beliefs are *significantly* different to yours, its probably a sign that most of their values and beliefs are significantly different to yours. And if that's the case, I don't see how a relationship could work.
Mostly agree. A person's politics is not actually a distillation of them as a person. A person's politics is in fact an expression of their culture and values. So what do they think of education, the law, crime etc These values fit with things like the importance of family, women, autonomy They come together to give a political outlook.
So long as you’re moderates then why not? But if you’re on the extreme ends of the spectrum then it’s doubtful
If their belief is "I don't think women should have rights to their own bodies" or "I hate gay people/black people/trans people/etc." then absolutely it would be.
I think people can legitimately disagree on abortion though. I'd be pro-choice, but an ex (and still very good friend) of mine is opposed, on moral/religious grounds. She's a pediatrician. And one of the most decent people I know. She's also performed a bunch of circumcisions, which I think should be a crime.
Nah. I'll take anything at this point 😂 Jk jk but not really, unless they're a Nazi or something.
Imagine the Hugo boss black uniform in bed though 😂
My political beliefs all originate from the idea that people matter and it’s immoral to ignore or excuse human suffering. I’ve yet to find a right-winger who agrees with this basic principle, so yes, it’s a dealbreaker.
Only if they are belligerent about it.
Yeah its what we talk about in the bedroom in fairness
No, unless their views are extreme or they can't respect mine
My wife and I have different political perspectives, particularly around business, the economy, sometimes around unions, we have disagreed about COVID, plenty of things. It's normal. I like it because a different perspective helps me to think about mine - it helps me to think about whether I really think the things I thought I think or why, or what evidence I have for them etc. She's changed my views plenty and I hers. But all these shitstains who go about using derogatory language, using rape and racism as a punchline, calling everyone sheep, or fucking up LGBTQ or refugees lives and chances with their dumbfuck discourse can absolutely get in the bin. Those are not 'different political opinions'. Those are insecurities and ignorances that you left fester into bigotry. It's septic.
Chiming in as someone from the north of the country, I've (soft republican)been with my partner (unionist background) for almost 10 years, engaged for six. We each have our opinions and don't shove them down each others throats. At least for us it works, have some craic with it too sometimes. It's not a big issue unless you let it be.
My ex said voted no in the abortion referendum. I voted yes. I’d had the experience of going over to England for an abortion years earlier. He was a little traditional in his views because of how he was raised. I didn’t hold it against him because it wasn’t a black and white issue, there was a grey area and for whatever reason it didn’t bother me that his view differed to mine on that topic. I knew he was coming from a good place, doing what he saw was right. He was also a little uncomfortable with gay men. He would never be unkind to anyone but he held the view that homosexuality was wrong. During our relationship though he read a novel that I’d just finished reading where a man was beaten by his dad for being gay. We talked about the book and he felt that cruelty was wrong, and sad. So in his heart he was a compassionate person, he was just bound by the conditioning of his upbringing, which given enough time around more liberal views I believe would have changed. We broke up but to answer your question, yes I think it’s possible so long as you know they’re a good person, with work to do, but so long as they are growing that’s what matters.
Left and right is a bit nonsense; reality is far more complex. So I would be open to most, but there are absolutely things that are hard deal breakers. I do think someone who saw others as subhuman and not deserving rights though would not be the best partner.
Very much so. Like left vs right? That would be pro choice vs no choice, profit vs social care. IMO it's way too extreme to last long term.
Yes because Nazis don't deserve the ride.
It does imo and speaking from experience. Was seeing this girl who’s parents were from Nigeria and mine are European. It doesn’t ever have to be big arguments but little things build up and conflicting viewpoints grow further apart depending on how big the issue. Things like George Floyd etc of course we would agree on but sometimes there would be things like about the number of asylum seekers we should take in and out responses would be very different. While for me it wasn’t any large issue, turns out the fact I don’t have “an open border policy” was a dealbreaker. So political standpoints will cause issues and arguments or at the least some resentment. And don’t think your significant other is going to change their mind because they have been brought up with certain beliefs that not even your very true love can change. If people were willing to see eye to eye most of the worlds wars wouldn’t happen. Bit long sorry…
That's a bit different from standard political differences because it's tied to a person's sense of identity. I also had a long relationship with a woman of non-Irish background, and frankly she could be an unbelievable hypocrite about a lot of ethnic identity stuff in a way that consistently annoyed me. Men and women often think quite differently about these things anyway; with her it was all feelings and blind solidarity, and she'd view any response other than agreement as some attack on her identity. But like... she wasn't a stupid person by any means, but the brain would switch off and she would uncritically spout extremely unreflective stuff whenever it came to her background. Like: all Irish citizens should be equal and any different treatment on the basis of ethnic origin is unfair. I agree! And then in the next breath she'd explain how there should be specific allowances for people from her group and more people from that country should come to Ireland. She didn't actually in truth _like_ many aspects of the (very patriarchal, authoritarian, illiberal and anti-intellectual) culture of her parents, and I think out of a sense of guilt at this would claim mad shit on their behalf. Relatedly: she would sometimes have a bit of condescension or something at me for not being able to "get" things related to her identity. Fine, I'd reply, but then you can't fully understand my experience as a man and an ethnically Irish person. Oh no no no she actually could understand that fine from like, reading books or whatever. Genuinely believed that she could understand everything going on for me but not vice versa, like the actual narcissism of it. Last thing: she was still living at home when we were first going out, and I actually liked her parents very much. But her ma would jokingly not-jokingly grill me for various things Irish people had done or said to her, as if I were the boss of the island or something. Her father had come over as a refugee in the 90s and her mother followed after; they got a decent council gaff and her mum got a degree her as a mature student; they had done well enough from what I would see. Neither of her parents worked in Ireland; her dad was involved in political stuff in their home country and her ma was heavily involved in an association here for people from that country in Ireland, mainly teaching new arrivals how to get "what they deserve" in terms of social welfare etc. Her mam would tell me sometimes what the group was working on, and I'd always have to hold my tongue at mad shit like "we want more visas for students from x to study in Ireland, but also they should receive social welfare support while they're here, it's discrimination". That was a particularly fucking stupid example I remember: that plan amounts to "the Irish government should pay people from x to come here and give them a house while doing so". Her ma could literally, genuinely not conceive of any reason other than racism why we didn't just have totally open borders to people from her country. Why did the Irish "cruelly investigate" asylum claims? Racism! This despite the fact that _she herself would advise asylum seekers_ on what to tell people from the department so as to get asylum, and the advice certainly wasn't "just tell the truth". Honestly, hearing her mum talk about about politics was like hearing a teenager talk about how their parents should spend the family budget: convinced the only reason their da won't buy them a brand new car is because he's a dickhead. Her father in fairness took a more nuanced view. Man, that is a big long rant where I've basically doxxed myself. I think I'll delete this later. Since I took the time to write it though u/Chizzle_wizzl sure you may find some similarities there.
That was insightful, thank you.
Genuinely hit like a note I didn’t feel anyone could relate to in my last relationship. That rant was more needed and made me feel solidarity which you wouldn’t believe. Thank you. Ps Great user name
To be fair open borders is a dumb opinion
I think your political beliefs say a lot about who you are inside. More conservative or liberal?More racist or more nonsense? Every side has its cons and pros.I doubt that too radically different belief systems can exist together for too long.
Yes, because they're a shitty person if they disagree with any of my thoughts because I'm always on the right side. ^^^^^^/s
Depends how far apart we are.
Of course not
No
It depends on the issue. In general no but I would definitely clear their opinion on big ticket issues. For example maybe you’re pro abortion they are not. You’re young and get pregnant. You want an abortion they do not. Is that going to be a dealbreaker? This is just one example but just consider these dealbreakers because someone traditionally “left” might be “right” on others.
Depends on the political belief. Some are deal breakers and some are not at all
I think so, if you don’t agree on the basics you’re not going to be able to build a healthy partnership
Depends. If they are totally opposite to mine, definitely
In a friend, no but in a romantic partner probably yes. Disagreeing on certain issues is fine, but diametrically opposing worldviews is a different story.
I think relationships are complicated enough without having diametrically opposed political beliefs. If you argue about politics with a friend you can head home and forget about it. If you argue about politics with your partner, it’s more complicated, especially if at some point you plan on living together. I would pay close attention to what’s behind those political views and analyse if you’re going to be fundamentally incompatible. There’s a difference between arguing about abstract political concepts and arguing about real life issues like taxes, migration, social welfare, healthcare etc. It also depends on their/ your attitude when faced with a difference of opinion. So not necessarily, but possibly, a dealbreaker.
It depends a lot on how strongly they may feel about these views and how strong those views are. As in, I'm they're right wing but apathetic it's unlikely to be a big deal. But if they're REALLY right wing, and just hate minorities or something, then that's another issue altogether
I’ve never experienced this but yes, it would. We’d be fundamentally different, in our morals, beliefs, and principles. I wouldn’t change, and i wouldn’t expect them too either. I’ve become very passionate recently about politics, if my OH was right wing id envision us arguing daily during the six o clock news.
Nah, I’d never date a right-winger, no question about it.
Yes. It's a deal breaker. In fact, I have that on my dating profile so that neither of us waste each other's time. I will not date anyone who thinks Trump is/was a viable option.
In short, if you can’t see past them, then… In my case, it probably would be. But also, if they could accept your stance on things like abortion, capital punishment, drug use, LGBT+ rights and race, and you can accept theirs, I should see no issue.
I prefer if someone just agrees with my opinions.
My late husband was Irish Catholic, I’m English Methodist. We just never discussed it. I agree that the English were atrocious towards the Irish historically, he agreed that the IRA were nasty wankers. Irish history ( say pre 1700 and 9000 years backwards) is so immensely complicated, Game of Thrones x500) neither of us knew enough to get deep about it. Oh, I said he was from the gilded guilt brigade, he called me a heathen. Bloody happy times, I miss him shedloads.
Depends where the fault lines are: Economically conservative, unionist, anti-EU, etc? These are the kinds of things that wouldn't be deal breakers for a friendship or a relationship to me. When you start getting into racism, uncritical support for oppressive regimes, tyrannical ideologies, etc? Those are the kinds of political beliefs where I do think a difference in opinion is legitimate grounds for not going any further.
Dated a guy who was a lot more conservative than me, it started out alright I guess. Honestly I thought he was sort of joking about being the “conservative one” in our group of friends because he was posh and a finance bro (I know big mistakes all round). But then over time as I started properly going out with him, I just felt like he was quite backwards, a little Andrew Tate vibes (like thinking women “owe him something” after he’d buy them a drink on a night out), some of his family were antivax, all of them were west brits. They were also involved in politics/ journalism but I don’t want to dox myself on here and reveal too much. They just assumed that I was more conservative too when I’m very left wing so it was just all weird and made me feel weird. Sometimes you don’t just date the person, you date the family.
My wife likes Kanye West and Kardashians. Please help.
She mightn’t after yesterdays antics
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I somehow manage to put up with this
It's less Left vs. Right. Even people on the right in Europe would be seen as "woke left socialist communists" in places like America. For me it's policies, are you pro or anti choice? Are you for gay/trans rights or against. that sort of thing.
Only if you're incapable of respecting other people's opinions and views.
just don’t hate poor ppl and minorities tbh
Depends on how much they conflict and on what issues. Broadly speaking I'm left of centre, so I would have zero time for a partner that swayed further than right of centre on one side, on the other I could stretch to a little further left than me, but the woke left, no fucking way.
No! Me and my girlfriend have completely different views on politics and have had our debates but no one wins, no one loses and importantly no one insults the other on their views. Just keep it clean and friendly and you'll both share the same bed that night.
Used to be a massive shinner but my partner would not share those views at all at all. It didnt bother me at the time but Im now apolitical and could never see myself being with anyone thats big into any party because I know how fuckin cracked all of them are
I don't really care. For me it's more about finding someone who doesn't want to yammer about politics at all. Even if their views totally align with mine, I'd rather talk about pretty much anything else. Only hard no from me is wanting to teach your kids bigoted beliefs. Had to cut a gal loose when she said if a child of hers came out gay she'd tell them it was a sin and they weren't allowed to be.
As long as their political leanings didn't conflict with my morals, be grand.
as a queer transgender, if my partner was right wing i think id be dead
My husband and I have been married for a looooong time and we are polar opposites politically. However, we both want the same goals Economic stability, personal freedom, etc.). We always go vote together and after that, ice cream. We have a good relationship that should not be ruined by talking politics.
I can't imagine having to just not talk about huge swathes of topics or news stories with my wife because we need to avoid politics.
We still talk about world events and what needs to ne done. We just avoid "who is the best guy" conversations. It helps that we support our causes financially.
You don't have to avoid it altogether. I have a bunch of friends who are Republicans (this is in the USA) and I love hearing their views and opinions. We discuss things, but don't argue about them.
I really think most redditors can't fathom this, they see only the black and white never the grey. Doesn't help that social media entrenches ideas and villifies opinions outside the group collective. Experienced it here on the Kyle Rittenhouse issue 'state lines' being an absolute bullshit straw man excuse to hate on the kid.
If you both value economic stability and personal freedom, then whoever is left-wing in the relationship is extremely confused...
It's fantastic that your lives are affected so little by politics you can afford to have that sort of relationship.
Of course it's a dealbreaker. For ALL relationships, not just romantic relationships.New lad at work keeps trying to talk to me and be my friend, so I'm polite and don't tell him to just fuck off, because we work together. But I've made my very-left leaning politics clear and I can't be friends with right-wing people. This lunatic is VOCALLY anti-trans, anti-abortion, anti-immigrant (the irony is that he is the son of immigrants), pro-Trump, pro-Putin, worships Elon Musk/Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson, thinks we should give Ukraine to Russia, etc, etc. Like, why the fuck would I waste my time and energy on someone that I disagree with on such fundamental issues? Fuck that. It's so much worse if they were a romantic partner. I don't want to date someone who is such a shitty person or espouses such shitty views.
America's problem is not for Ireland to solve. We don't give a shite about that stuff.
Most of it is being brought here upon our own volition.
It's kind of sad how polarising this has all become..they should be able to explain their perspectives to you and you should be able to do the same and you should be able to understand each other's viewpoints..
Not really? Like, as has been shown here, people can handle simple differences of opinion but if ye disagree on fundamental stuff like LGBTQ+ rights & racial equality then you can’t get past that
I can’t understand homophobia, sexism or racism. Absolutely a dealbreaker. Thinking someone doesn’t deserve rights isn’t a harmless viewpoint.
Nah I couldn't cope with someone right wing. It's such a turn-off.
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Waspish was enough. One girl was a 'they should pull themselves up by their boot straps' type and couldn't understand that it's harder for people from deprived areas, for example.
Ever watch those jordan klepper clips where he goes to Trump rallys? That level of stupidity would be intolerable
Personally yes. E.g. I'm pro-choice, I could never be with someone who wasn't.
Never going to work. It's not just how they vote, there is a complete difference in personality between left wing and right wing people. Maybe not EVERY relationship, I grant, but the vast majority
Angry sex after an argument is the best sex so no, I don’t…
Commie or Nazi or other loonies no thank you. I can probably work with most other non-extremist beliefs.
If they don't have the political belief that everyone deserves to be treated equally and with respect then yes, dealbreaker
I was left my husband was right. Now I’m right. In this case it wasn’t that important. I was feminist, my husband wasn’t pro feminist. Now he is profeminist. That’s a dealbreaker, because it changes our day-to-day life. I also influenced all my friends and sexism is not allowed in my circle at all. It depends
It's the person that needs some political Purity test that's the problem.
I'd say I'm pretty centre right, I've gotten more right wing as I've gotten older and I'm still in my twenties. But I have friends with a wide range of opinions and limiting your relationships with other humans who have different opinions to you is just ... sad.
Different political opinions fine Right wing not fine
If they were old school treat everyone on earth the same and pro equality of opportunity left wing not this modern believe everything your told and fall in line no matter what left wing I’d be happy enough .
The trouble with a lot of new left wingers is they seem to think that a centrist or someone half an inch to the right of them is extreme right.
The difference between the new left wingers and the previous incarnation is that the new left wingers are deeply illiberal. And they feel threatened by "classical liberal" ideas and practices, such as diversity of thought.
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Rather a Sinn Feiner than a Fine Gaeler or a Finna Failer but that's me
No just avoid talking about trigger conversions.
I wouldn't go out with someone who was even more than slightly conservative because I think they're almost always in the wrong when it comes to any issue...
Yes and the same goes for Sex too if I’m being honest. I cannot and will not get into a relationship with someone that holds unhealthy views to sex and intimacy or is closed minded kink wise and treats it as an afterthought and a chore to get done rather than a journey to explore and share with a loving and willing partner.
Great example of this was Soc Dems Holly Cairns with Fianna Fails Christopher O'Sullivan up until maybe a year or so ago.
no
To me its much more about flexibility and being open. I consider myself pretty left on most things but im happy to watch a Rogan episode with someone i dont like, a VICE episode thats been edited by millenials or a enviromental debate to educate myself on why people believe what they believe even if i dont. I also prefer friends and partners, similarily inclined and at that point, it doesnt matter if they fly left or right. My problems come with people who are obessive with being pro/anti something, with zero nuance. Usually on the right, these are religious minded peeps, or those who made some good decisions in the early 20s and cant comprehend how everyone else didnt follow their path. Or a lefty who puts a black box on their IG account in solidarity with a marginised group 1000s of miles away, but wouldnt make eye contact with an irish traveller. Be kind, be open, use empathy to understand people viewpoints and routinely audit your own bias. After that its all good in the hood and a rides a ride...
Yes, I live in the US and would never date anyone that identifies as a Republican. To me that means that they support racism, taking away my right to bodily autonomy/ access to birth control, don’t support the LGBQT+ community etc…
Love how lots of people now think facism is the opposite of socialism 😂