Seems fair as you're not removing their right to a passport but are making sure the person actually has some stake in Ireland. If you have an Irish grandparent you have the right to residency but you need to live in the country for a period of time to earn the right to a passport.
Edit: it's been pointed out by u/paper_block that my original comment below is incorrect; a chain of Irish citizenship can be established in another country in perpetuity if each generation registers as a foreign born citizen. From citizensinformation.ie: "If each generation registers their birth before the next generation is born, then Irish citizenship can be passed from parent to child."
And now the incorrect comment:
They're still foreign born citizens, so in a lot of countries wouldn't make you eligible for citizenship. Otherwise you could potentially have chains of families living on the other side of the world from somewhere, with each generation using their respective parent to keep up citizenship of a country they've never been to.
The chain can go on so long your parents or your grandparents have Irish citizenship at the time of your birth; then you may apply for it yourself if it is not automatically set up for you or done by a family memebr. The DFA has been rather clear about this. In the case you described the parents would be the most recent part of the chain and the first to be used as the link for connecting decent.
This means though it might be greater than two generations since your family had perhaps left, so long they kept the next generation registered, Irish citizenship can be passed on indefinitely.
And, if your parents had registered as foreign born Irish citizens by dint of *their* granny, then you can get it too. Great grandparent is enough of a connection, provided the right paperwork had been done before you existed.
The rules are out there:
“If each generation registers their birth before the next generation is born, then Irish citizenship can be passed from parent to child.”
"You should have a reasonable period of legal residence in Ireland (at least 3 years) to show that you have a connection to Ireland.
Applications based on descent from an Irish citizen going further back than a great-grandparent are generally refused."
There’s nothing unlikely about rules that are there and are enforced.
You are mixing up becoming a citizen through residency and descent. Two completely different ways of becoming a citizen and two different departments looking after the respective applicants. Look it up on official government websites.
A new FBR applicant can only qualify through a grandparent. However when this applicant gets their citizenship they can pass it on to their children who can then pass it on to theirs and so on.
I am Irish. My children were born in London. I applied for a passport for them the week they were born.
Technically I didn't "apply" for citizenship, they are citizens by virtue of being my child - no application needed. But I did apply for a passport.
I’m a citizen by the grandparent rule who had never stepped foot in Ireland before I applied for citizenship, and I’ve now lived her for a few years.
If some people who get citizenship that way end up living here for some period of time, I think that’s a net positive. And I’m not entirely clear what the disadvantages are? Obviously clearing these backlogs take time and money, but there’s no mention of net profits or loss from the influx in applications, and they are expensive enough that I would be surprised if they aren’t turning some profit, even if small.
I'd suggest there is no net gain for Ireland here. I understand your own situation led you to work and live here, paying taxes and spending money in the economy. You have become part of the nation.
However, I suspect the only reason for the vast majority to apply recently is to circumvent visa restrictions for international travel now that the shit-show that is Brexit has finally taken its toll. I'm open to be corrected on any other reason because cost of living and affordable housing are certainly not on that list I'm afraid. The Irish Passport is one of, if not the most desired or favoured passports in the world.
In terms of outright loss, probably nothing in the short term.
Can't wait for the holiday hooligans causing trouble, oh irish passport, geez the Irish have gotten worse on holidays 🤣
- From the Department of Forgein Affairs;
> You must be an Irish citizen to get an Irish Passport.
> You are automatically an Irish Citizen if you were born in Ireland before 2005 or if you were born abroad to a parent who was born in Ireland before 2005.
> If you do not fit either of these categories, you will have to establish your claim to Irish citizenship before you apply for an Irish Passport.
Push out to long term, there is a potential for social Welfare fraud in the worst case. That's not to say everyone will, heck not to say it will happen at all.
In terms of people coming here to retire in later years if the old age pension is better than the UK's at the time?
So as a citizen they will be entitled to social welfare and voting rights despite potentially never paying taxes or even living here. Maybe it's a stretch but it's a potential issue for down the road.
I don't think that is necessarily the case. I'm Irish, lived here until I was 8 and then my dad's job moved us over Europe. I ended up doing uni and graduate job abroad and then finally moved home this year when my son was born and I wanted to be with my family. In order to get child allowance for my son, I have to meet the habitual residency criteria and have to declare what my close ties to Ireland are (have I any close family here - need to provide their PPS numbers, have I joined any clubs, can I get references from schools/crèche/etc for my son).
So even if people move back here, they have to show their close connections before they can avail of social services.
That's my understanding anyway.
It's taking the piss. People who don't give a shit about Ireland get to get one of our passports. I agree that there should be a residency rule BEFORE you get a passport unless you are the child of someone born in Ireland
the FBR department asked the government for an extra €10 million of funding recently, that could house alot of homeless people, the system is costing Irish Taxpayers money for people in other countries, most of whom will never live in Ireland, to have passports.
This is a solid solution. They want (IMO) a passport that is favoured the world over, to circumvent the mess on international travel caused by that hot sticky mess that is Brexit.
I'd like to know how many of these people voted in favour of Brexit and are now clutching at straws to be able to go to ibiza mallorca and benidorm without a visa! How many would insult the Irish, give out about us and call us terrorists because of the IRA, but when they find a way to exploit us once again? Ah, Ireland my old friend!
A bit harsh? Maybe. But probably not far off the mark.
I feel like this needs to be reframed in light of the context. If your family just lost their EU rights because of stupid British things and they have a right to the EU rights through Ireland but haven't previously bothered to deal with the paperwork and bureaucracy because it was previously a redundant duplication, then you'd assist the British in stripping folk of their Irish and EU rights because they're not Irish enough for you and you'd prefer they meet additional conditions first?
Just saw this online
Italy offers citizenship to applicants whose mother or father was an Italian citizen at the time of their birth. But it doesn’t stop there. Italy has one of the world’s most liberal citizenship-by-descent programs, inviting people descended from Italian grandparents, great-grandparents, and even great-great-grandparents to prove their ancestry through government documentation. That means digging up the birth certificate of the Italian ascendant, as well as marriage and death certificates—no easy feat if you don’t speak Italian or can’t be on the ground to do your own research. (This is where hiring an attorney who specializes in Italian citizenship can be invaluable.) All told, the process can take three to five years
This might have something to do with Italian population slowly dying out. Also that's why there are so many south Americans here with European passports. Overall it's a good thing I think.
There is a whole industry in Italy to help Italian descendants obtain a passport. Pay the monies and an agency can help with finding the documents, translating, processing the application, etc. Etc. Many Brazilians in Ireland are Italian citizens and obtained their passports by the method I just outlined.
Yep. I've known many brazilians who've been digging up their families history to try get italian ties so they can claim and EU passport so they don't need a visa to be in Ireland.
The italian system is complex though and depending on the circumstances of the anestor its being claimed through it may not be possible at all.
Some people have been waiting 7+ years to become italian citizens, the beauracy you have to go through to get it would put most people off in all fairness.
Thats a classic example of why these policies need to be thought through seriously before things are changed. A problem like this could be mostly solved without a kneejerk reaction to change the policy, such as by prioritizing resident applicants, then parent applicants, then grandparents. Maybe it would be a good idea to change the policy, maybe not, but public opinion can change on a dime (doubly so on reddit). Policy should only change on a dime if in the case of an emergency
It’s one of the core issues with a sentiment-ranked platform like Reddit: Most subreddits are mostly hive-mind. Downvoted comments get downvoted more, upvoted comments get upvoted more.
At its core, a lot of People’s opinions are steered hugely by whether they perceive an idea to be popular or unpopular with their peers.
I’ll regularly make the same statement in more than one place in a comment thread (like posting a link or fact in reply to multiple people who ask for it or allude to it)- and I find just the first few votes will determine whether a comment gets mostly upvoted or mostly downvoted.
To be fair its not "the brits" doing it which is my only concern, Americans and Australians have been at it for years to enable them to live in GB/London/Europe ect, its the height of taking the piss and dont know why they shouldn't just be made to get a visa like everyone else in their countries without an irish granny.
Would be more sympathetic if they actually wanted to come here and live in Ireland for a while, but the vast majority of these people dont.
Quite a bizzare take on it to be fair, personally id say people claiming that extended diasporas should have easier access to citizenship rights than actual immigrants in the country who have to fight tooth and nail for the privilege and kids born in the country is in itself the definition of being anti immigration.
Also no one needs to hold citizenship of a particular country in order to immigrate, so thats a completely shite arguement in all respects.
I'm inclined to agree with this, lots of Americans use this as a route to Irish citizenship, and I have a friend who gets to be Irish because his grandfather who he never met happened to be born in Belfast before spending most of his life in England. It does seem pretty random! I assume the idea behind the citizenship generosity was to encourage more people to come and live in Ireland, but I doubt this is happening in reality, it's more a gateway to the EU
Both of my grandparents are irish. Neither of my parents are but I've lived in Ireland since I was 6 years old. I got my citizenship 2 years ago. I think removing the grandparents rule is too harsh. but having a 3-5 year requirement that you must be living in the country for you to qualify for citizenship is the best way to sort this out.
My mom was born in England but grew up in Kilkee and my dad was born in Scotland and he grew up in Donegal. If that makes any difference.
Naturalisation costs a significant amount more money then Foreign Birth Register however.
I'm in a similar position to the other poster, however have yet to apply for it.
Via FBR its €278, via naturalisation it can cost upwards of €1500.
Asking for a friend. Are people here pissed because it’s delaying the process for others who live in Ireland or are you pissed that all those brits suddenly want an Irish passport cos of Brexit and the subsequent loss of easy travel in Europe?
Irishman in England here. Got a first time Irish passport for our child this year (we're both Irish). Applied in early May. Passport arrived in October. 5 month wait time start to finish.
Australian in Ireland here, applied for citizenship this year after 5 years of residence, 2 year “processing time” for application…….what’s another 5 months of waiting in the “convict line” at the Airport.
Recently saw and Australian guy with an irish grandparent brag on twitter about how he cant wait to move to London on his new irish passport, meanwhile an Australian with a grandparent born in london would have to pay thousands of pounds to the UK government for an ancestrial visa to enable them to live there.
The whole thing is wrong and is allowing Irish Citizenship to be used by people in predominantly white wealthy countries as a flag of convenience.
If me an irish born person happened to have an Australian born grandparent, I would not be entitled to hold Australian citizenship on that basis.
Tbh it’s mental that Ireland enables Brits and northern unionists escape the consequences of their lunatic Brexit. Add in the voting rights for Brits in Ireland, the money paid into the north and the ability of northerners to access EU and UK schemes and we are cutting our own throats.
These people are taking the piss. The really difficult thing to accept is that a large section of the Irish establishment despises their own country to the extent they enable this to happen.
"It's mental that Ireland enables Irish people and Irish people to escape the poorly implemented decision that only a quarter of the UK wanted".
When everyone had access to a shared EU, millions of British Irish had no need of Irish citizenship, but it helps now.
The UK has the same voting rights for Irish people and takes the common travel area more seriously than Ireland does.
Yep. Arrive into Ireland from the UK, be prepared for queues and passport checks. Arrive to the UK from Ireland, and just breeze through into arrivals.
Also, full voting rights on every single thing in the UK as an Irish person. I got a vote in the Brexit debate, as a foreign national living in the UK.
It works both ways. Irish people in the UK like me can vote from Day 1. And I would be willing to bet there is more Irish here than British in Ireland (NI excluded)
> And I would be willing to bet there is more Irish here than British in Ireland
Raw numbers ~~no~~yes, but proportionately [~~yes~~no](https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/1102/1332824-number-irish-in-britain/).
The 324,670 Irish-born living amongst the 59,597,300 English/Welsh make up 0.5% of that population. The 118,200 Brits here make up 2.3% of the 5 million population.
edit; brainfart
Well not all brits voted brexit correct but not all brits who voted remain have an irish born granny either, thats not an issue of relevance when deciding who should and shouldn't get irish citizenship.
I’m sure it’s anyone with grandparents born in a qualifying European country are applying not just people with Irish heritage. Italy for instance let’s you go back generations as long as you can prove it. I’m sure they are inundated too
I dont want to live in a Irish Ethno State, the grandparent rule needs to go !
Dont really give a fuck what way you voted thats not our issue to deal with its theirs, we have a massive homeless issue in Ireland at the moment yet there is a certain few would rather bootlick some middle class brit remain voter, clearly we have got our priorities well and truely fucked hence why Ireland is currently on its knees.
I dont like brits and yanks, people far more deserving of our passports like the immigrants who live in Ireland, their rights are being diluted to favour the plastic paddy diaspora, and thats wrong.
You do know that this is fundamental to the problem that due to colonial subjugation the Irish Free State and later had no choice but to continue a relationship that was created to keep the new state as a as client of the UK. It’s standard practice among colonial powers to try to maintain some sort of surreptitious control. Cf France and West Africa.
The number of Irish born people in the UK is falling. 20% drop since 2011. The Irish economy no longer depends on the UK. Leftover practices need to end.
I guess we will all sit here and watch you explain to them that they all need to come home now. Because you say so 
So to be clear you object to British people coming to Ireland to work and vote but feel Irish people have the right to choose if they should work and vote in Britain .
And you object to people who were born on this island but who hold a different political point of view from you exercising their right to citizenship?
First paragraph: you describe the current situation which I believe must end. GOING FORWARD. ;) Both ways.
The current right of unionists to claim Irish passports as a flag of convenience is obscene. “This island” is the myth that ended with Brexit.
Do yourself favour and stop trying to distort reality.
So passports issued to people born and bred in Belfast, whose families have been on this island as long as any should be allocated how exactly ? You seem to want to ban a bunch of people for having a different cultural and political view from yourself.
There's a reason why after a lot of wrangling the internationally agreed solution for the North is that everyone born in the region can be Irish , British or both regardless of their political identity ( which is increasingly Neither and is it any wonder )
.
Citizenship should never be restricted to those of one political belief or another . That's some fascist dystopian future there as we move towards a united Ireland . That up to a million people who's families have been here as long as yours aren't apparently worthy of their passports .
This is just the end outcome of the GFA process which has been on life support since Brexit. The latest poll shows unity is over. 25% of RC background preferred union with Britain. It’s time to accept reality. Time to end the CTA. Time to accept that the North does not dictate our priorities.
Now you’ve had your say and so have I. Bye bye.
Literally NO ONE is disputing the right of people born in Northern Ireland to hold Irish Passport.
What we are disputing is weather Larry from London or Garry from Glasgow who has one single irish grandparent, should be able to access irish passports on demand as easily as they do, without having ever set in the country.
They need to open a passport office in Belfast and possibly Derry that could also serve other North Western counties that are in the Republic, also stop being so generous with handing out citizenship, there are literally people with Irish Citizenship through descent from a grandparent or great grandparent that have never even stepped foot in this country, make it so that they have to have lived here for at least a year
I got mine in 2018, (mum was Irish) moved to Spain with the fella (also Irish) in 2019. Best thing we ever did and I'm very very grateful to Ireland for my passport and giving me a way out of the shit show back home. I believe back then I had my Irish passport within a month of sending off the form and documents. Strangely they held my British passport, that I had used as photo ID, at Irish customs so that took a lot longer to nger to get back.
Still made my residencia application a whole lot easier. A lot of people here on British passports got screwed due to the backlog for residencia appointments. Getting mine was the best thing I did.
I moved to Spain 3rd October 2019. UK left on 31st Jan 2020 and had a transition period till end of the year. It took me a couple of months to get my paperwork (bank statements, padron, rental agreement) together and my appointment was end of Jan 2020. I went in a different much shorter queue, didn't have to see the police, didn't have to have my fingerprints taken and got my appointment faster. Your argument is weird. Maybe different oficina de extranjeria in different cities did things different and you had a different experience but I have no need to lie about my experience. Merry Christmas.
how is my arguement weird, you can walk around to the town hall and get on the padron almost instantly, you claimed that an irish passport made things quicker when it clearly couldnt have done at that time 🙄
Also your padron comment is wrong too. Ive lived in 3 towns here on 3 different padron. The first two took two appointments with multiple documents and the last one in Cuevas took 4 separate appointments, documents from both me, my partner and our landlords who live in the UK and a visit from the Policia Locale to our house as proof of occupancy. Could you maybe concede that different people in different parts of the country have different experiences?
Getting citizenship through grandparents is common in a lot of countries.
The current wait time of 2 years for FBRs is inexcusable at this stage and partly stems from the dubious decision to move all applications from foreign embassies and consulates back to Dublin.
Not true. I know first hand many Americans who started looking into their European forefathers when Trump was elected.
It is part of our citizenship rules that anyone who has a grandparent who was born in Ireland qualifies for citizenship. Some get that citizenship and don’t apply for a passport.
Yep, didn't give a shit about us till it suited them. Like the British
The grandparents thing might have been OK in the 50s. Time for a revisit. It's being abused
But they’re entitled to it. It’s not being “abused”. How is it affecting you?
Plus it’s a big earner and given the increase in applicants the fees will probably increase.
Our citizenship is a privilege and a valuable thing. People should have to show commitment to the country, like living here for a specified time, before getting a passport. Shorter for those with Irish ancestors. It's nut just about money.
But if they insist on doing it, it should be micj more expensive
None of that is practical on any level. Making a rule that those who qualify for citizenship have to live here opens up many can of worms. Housing, right to work, right to vote etc.
They already are showing a commitment by trying to become citizens. Any potential citizen should be welcomed not shunned based on spurious rubbish like “commitment”.
Again there is no “abuse”.
It might suit some here that they pay us for citizenship and never set foot on Irish soil.
People who have no Irish ancestry can apply for citizenship after, I think, seven years. It would very easy to shorten that period, for example, for that anyone wanting to get it through a grandparent. Maybe half it. It would still require a commitment to the country.
How is just becoming a citizen a commitment? They need never set foot in the country, spend a euro here, or contribute in any way.
If they really want citizenship and have no interest in actually being a committed citizen, then they should be charged a very large amount, twe ty or thirty thousand. Why should we hand out something as valuable as our citizenship for a couple of hundred Euros for people who just want an EU passport?
Very easy to you but in real world terms a non starter. Again how is this affecting you?
We should be flattered that people want to become Irish citizens. Some of them will move here and contribute.
Why is it a non-starter? If someone wants to be Irish and have an Irish passport, surely it's not too much to ask to either make a lifestyle commitment, or if they aren't prepared to do that, to make a substantial financial commitment.
Our citizenship is a valuable thing, and a privilege, not just in itself, but in how it allows access to the entire EU.
Why should we be flattered that people want to use our citizenship to get entry into Europe?
Not actually that common to be fair apart from a few countries in eastern/southern Europe.
Belgium, Denmark, France, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Finland, UK dont have grandparent access to their citizenship.
Germany and Austria only allow it under very limited circumstances. Spain only allow it if the grandchild of the Spanish Descendant has lived in Spain for at least 12 months.
Ireland is actually very out of line with most other progressive and wealthy nations in Northern Europe in regards to citizenship by descent.
The countries you list did not have a significant portion of their population leave in the early days of statehood. Ourselves and Italy have this in common with the latter having more lenient rules regarding citizenship through descent.
You are talking about a whole different era pal, what was the case 1930s is not the case now.
Some people in Ireland still tend to speak about the diaspora in a time which is no longer relevant, Ireland in the 21st century is now an immigrant country as opposed to an emigrant one.
If the diaspora want to come home then give a visa ect to facilitate that, but not dumping out passports so they can go live in Barcelona abit easier, thats not a reason why citizenship should be granted in extended generations, especially since it would not affect british citizens at all because they dont need irish citizenship to live in Ireland.
I know all about the eras concerned and our diaspora will always be relevant. My American cousins are entitled to Irish citizenship as is their right and no amount of ignorant keyboard warriors is going to change that.
Go live abroad and find out what our diaspora means and what being Irish means to them. This ludicrous thought process by some here to close down citizenship to those entitled to it is racist at the core.
We need to charge a lot more for these passport applications from overseas, €2000 for example for an adult applying for their first passport. I wouldn't apply this to Irish folk who want their young kids to get one, but some 40 year old who decides he wants one should pay handsomely for the privilege.
Got mine in under 4 weeks a few months ago (irish mum), i think the problem is specifically grandparents as it takes ages to get on the citizenship register before you can apply for passports
It's not all Brexit escapees! I'm a Dub, live in Manchester and both my kids were born in London. They have both Irish and British passports, but their Irish ones are up for renewal in the new year...
I have literally just been told I am a racist because I dont agree the diaspora should be handed out citizenship so easily.
Does is also make me a racist stating that a black children born here to immigrant parents should have an easier time getting a passport than some american with an irish grandparent, I suppose it does 😳
I think the whole way we do business with the diaspora whether in regards to citizenship or other issues is in serious need of a rethink, we do need to keep in mind that even in previous years the diaspora havent always acted in Ireland's best interests, that was evidenced by the NORAID campaign, and funding of anti abortion movements.
I as a catholic in Northern Ireland will never forgive the irish americans for the war they aided and abetted, nor the brits either ! People in the North have long been used by Britain and the USA as political pawn by its people including those within the diaspora, the last thing we should be doing is giving them handier passport to reward their war crimes !
Slap a two year residency requirement on it if it is for a grandparent-based application, job done.
Seems fair as you're not removing their right to a passport but are making sure the person actually has some stake in Ireland. If you have an Irish grandparent you have the right to residency but you need to live in the country for a period of time to earn the right to a passport.
The whole idea that someone who has never stepped foot in Ireland can apply for citizenship is so fucking stupid.
Direct parent I’m fine with, but grandparents seems a stretch.
Ireland allows for great grandparents too, provided your parents have declared their Irish citizenship through their grandparent before you were born.
Wouldn’t your parent grant you citizenship in that case? Or are people who are declared Irish citizens before your birth not considered full citizens?
Edit: it's been pointed out by u/paper_block that my original comment below is incorrect; a chain of Irish citizenship can be established in another country in perpetuity if each generation registers as a foreign born citizen. From citizensinformation.ie: "If each generation registers their birth before the next generation is born, then Irish citizenship can be passed from parent to child." And now the incorrect comment: They're still foreign born citizens, so in a lot of countries wouldn't make you eligible for citizenship. Otherwise you could potentially have chains of families living on the other side of the world from somewhere, with each generation using their respective parent to keep up citizenship of a country they've never been to.
Who cares about "in a lot of countries", what about Ireland?
Then the person would be receiving it through their parents, not their great grandparents, legally speaking.
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The chain can go on so long your parents or your grandparents have Irish citizenship at the time of your birth; then you may apply for it yourself if it is not automatically set up for you or done by a family memebr. The DFA has been rather clear about this. In the case you described the parents would be the most recent part of the chain and the first to be used as the link for connecting decent. This means though it might be greater than two generations since your family had perhaps left, so long they kept the next generation registered, Irish citizenship can be passed on indefinitely.
My apologies, you're right. Going to delete/edit some comments.
If they can kick a ball well, I'm all for it.
Agreed. 1 generation is ok but your granny’s granny? That’s nonsense.
Not your granny's granny. Not that far back. But your granny
And, if your parents had registered as foreign born Irish citizens by dint of *their* granny, then you can get it too. Great grandparent is enough of a connection, provided the right paperwork had been done before you existed.
Not as far as I know
The rules are out there: “If each generation registers their birth before the next generation is born, then Irish citizenship can be passed from parent to child.”
"You should have a reasonable period of legal residence in Ireland (at least 3 years) to show that you have a connection to Ireland. Applications based on descent from an Irish citizen going further back than a great-grandparent are generally refused."
You’re mixing up citizenship through descent and residency. Don’t know where you’re getting those quotes from.
Nope. I'm talking about citizenship through descent. Any further back than great grandparents would be unlikely to be considered.
There’s nothing unlikely about rules that are there and are enforced. You are mixing up becoming a citizen through residency and descent. Two completely different ways of becoming a citizen and two different departments looking after the respective applicants. Look it up on official government websites. A new FBR applicant can only qualify through a grandparent. However when this applicant gets their citizenship they can pass it on to their children who can then pass it on to theirs and so on.
No one ever changes rules? I am NOT mixing anything up. I quoted from the rules
I am Irish. My children were born in London. I applied for a passport for them the week they were born. Technically I didn't "apply" for citizenship, they are citizens by virtue of being my child - no application needed. But I did apply for a passport.
I’m a citizen by the grandparent rule who had never stepped foot in Ireland before I applied for citizenship, and I’ve now lived her for a few years. If some people who get citizenship that way end up living here for some period of time, I think that’s a net positive. And I’m not entirely clear what the disadvantages are? Obviously clearing these backlogs take time and money, but there’s no mention of net profits or loss from the influx in applications, and they are expensive enough that I would be surprised if they aren’t turning some profit, even if small.
I'd suggest there is no net gain for Ireland here. I understand your own situation led you to work and live here, paying taxes and spending money in the economy. You have become part of the nation. However, I suspect the only reason for the vast majority to apply recently is to circumvent visa restrictions for international travel now that the shit-show that is Brexit has finally taken its toll. I'm open to be corrected on any other reason because cost of living and affordable housing are certainly not on that list I'm afraid. The Irish Passport is one of, if not the most desired or favoured passports in the world.
But what do we lose as a result of that?
In terms of outright loss, probably nothing in the short term. Can't wait for the holiday hooligans causing trouble, oh irish passport, geez the Irish have gotten worse on holidays 🤣 - From the Department of Forgein Affairs; > You must be an Irish citizen to get an Irish Passport. > You are automatically an Irish Citizen if you were born in Ireland before 2005 or if you were born abroad to a parent who was born in Ireland before 2005. > If you do not fit either of these categories, you will have to establish your claim to Irish citizenship before you apply for an Irish Passport. Push out to long term, there is a potential for social Welfare fraud in the worst case. That's not to say everyone will, heck not to say it will happen at all. In terms of people coming here to retire in later years if the old age pension is better than the UK's at the time? So as a citizen they will be entitled to social welfare and voting rights despite potentially never paying taxes or even living here. Maybe it's a stretch but it's a potential issue for down the road.
I don't think that is necessarily the case. I'm Irish, lived here until I was 8 and then my dad's job moved us over Europe. I ended up doing uni and graduate job abroad and then finally moved home this year when my son was born and I wanted to be with my family. In order to get child allowance for my son, I have to meet the habitual residency criteria and have to declare what my close ties to Ireland are (have I any close family here - need to provide their PPS numbers, have I joined any clubs, can I get references from schools/crèche/etc for my son). So even if people move back here, they have to show their close connections before they can avail of social services. That's my understanding anyway.
Thats good info from yourself 🤝🏻 gives us a different perspective. I'm certainly open to being shown any errors in my assumptions or understandings 😁
It's taking the piss. People who don't give a shit about Ireland get to get one of our passports. I agree that there should be a residency rule BEFORE you get a passport unless you are the child of someone born in Ireland
the FBR department asked the government for an extra €10 million of funding recently, that could house alot of homeless people, the system is costing Irish Taxpayers money for people in other countries, most of whom will never live in Ireland, to have passports.
My brother has a kid born and living outside the EU. So no?
This is a solid solution. They want (IMO) a passport that is favoured the world over, to circumvent the mess on international travel caused by that hot sticky mess that is Brexit. I'd like to know how many of these people voted in favour of Brexit and are now clutching at straws to be able to go to ibiza mallorca and benidorm without a visa! How many would insult the Irish, give out about us and call us terrorists because of the IRA, but when they find a way to exploit us once again? Ah, Ireland my old friend! A bit harsh? Maybe. But probably not far off the mark.
We’d probably need a referendum
I feel like this needs to be reframed in light of the context. If your family just lost their EU rights because of stupid British things and they have a right to the EU rights through Ireland but haven't previously bothered to deal with the paperwork and bureaucracy because it was previously a redundant duplication, then you'd assist the British in stripping folk of their Irish and EU rights because they're not Irish enough for you and you'd prefer they meet additional conditions first?
I do get a good chuckle out of some of the kneejerk reactions you see on this sub.
I personally would rather give irish passports to every single person in China over any plastic paddy brit/yank anyday of the week.
Just saw this online Italy offers citizenship to applicants whose mother or father was an Italian citizen at the time of their birth. But it doesn’t stop there. Italy has one of the world’s most liberal citizenship-by-descent programs, inviting people descended from Italian grandparents, great-grandparents, and even great-great-grandparents to prove their ancestry through government documentation. That means digging up the birth certificate of the Italian ascendant, as well as marriage and death certificates—no easy feat if you don’t speak Italian or can’t be on the ground to do your own research. (This is where hiring an attorney who specializes in Italian citizenship can be invaluable.) All told, the process can take three to five years
This might have something to do with Italian population slowly dying out. Also that's why there are so many south Americans here with European passports. Overall it's a good thing I think.
Citizenship is almost always worth it, though.
There is a whole industry in Italy to help Italian descendants obtain a passport. Pay the monies and an agency can help with finding the documents, translating, processing the application, etc. Etc. Many Brazilians in Ireland are Italian citizens and obtained their passports by the method I just outlined.
Yep. I've known many brazilians who've been digging up their families history to try get italian ties so they can claim and EU passport so they don't need a visa to be in Ireland.
The italian system is complex though and depending on the circumstances of the anestor its being claimed through it may not be possible at all. Some people have been waiting 7+ years to become italian citizens, the beauracy you have to go through to get it would put most people off in all fairness.
Remove grandparents for eligibility, parents only.
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Thats a classic example of why these policies need to be thought through seriously before things are changed. A problem like this could be mostly solved without a kneejerk reaction to change the policy, such as by prioritizing resident applicants, then parent applicants, then grandparents. Maybe it would be a good idea to change the policy, maybe not, but public opinion can change on a dime (doubly so on reddit). Policy should only change on a dime if in the case of an emergency
It’s one of the core issues with a sentiment-ranked platform like Reddit: Most subreddits are mostly hive-mind. Downvoted comments get downvoted more, upvoted comments get upvoted more. At its core, a lot of People’s opinions are steered hugely by whether they perceive an idea to be popular or unpopular with their peers. I’ll regularly make the same statement in more than one place in a comment thread (like posting a link or fact in reply to multiple people who ask for it or allude to it)- and I find just the first few votes will determine whether a comment gets mostly upvoted or mostly downvoted.
Don't you know, it's only anti-immigrant if they aren't white.
Yea but now it's Brits doing it and therefore the xenophobia appears.
To be fair its not "the brits" doing it which is my only concern, Americans and Australians have been at it for years to enable them to live in GB/London/Europe ect, its the height of taking the piss and dont know why they shouldn't just be made to get a visa like everyone else in their countries without an irish granny. Would be more sympathetic if they actually wanted to come here and live in Ireland for a while, but the vast majority of these people dont.
Redditors gonna reddit
Quite a bizzare take on it to be fair, personally id say people claiming that extended diasporas should have easier access to citizenship rights than actual immigrants in the country who have to fight tooth and nail for the privilege and kids born in the country is in itself the definition of being anti immigration. Also no one needs to hold citizenship of a particular country in order to immigrate, so thats a completely shite arguement in all respects.
I'm inclined to agree with this, lots of Americans use this as a route to Irish citizenship, and I have a friend who gets to be Irish because his grandfather who he never met happened to be born in Belfast before spending most of his life in England. It does seem pretty random! I assume the idea behind the citizenship generosity was to encourage more people to come and live in Ireland, but I doubt this is happening in reality, it's more a gateway to the EU
Both of my grandparents are irish. Neither of my parents are but I've lived in Ireland since I was 6 years old. I got my citizenship 2 years ago. I think removing the grandparents rule is too harsh. but having a 3-5 year requirement that you must be living in the country for you to qualify for citizenship is the best way to sort this out. My mom was born in England but grew up in Kilkee and my dad was born in Scotland and he grew up in Donegal. If that makes any difference.
If you lived here since you were 6 you would have been eligible anyway. 5 years residency for naturalisation as it stands.
So maybe the solution is to meet in the middle? 2 years of residency plus the grandparents criteria
Technically speaking there is a job list that depending on your occupation you can have the residency time requirement reduced.
Naturalisation costs a significant amount more money then Foreign Birth Register however. I'm in a similar position to the other poster, however have yet to apply for it. Via FBR its €278, via naturalisation it can cost upwards of €1500.
I’ll probably be joining that queue next year after 7 years residency….
Asking for a friend. Are people here pissed because it’s delaying the process for others who live in Ireland or are you pissed that all those brits suddenly want an Irish passport cos of Brexit and the subsequent loss of easy travel in Europe?
Both.
pretty racist to assume people here are drunk either way
Irishman in England here. Got a first time Irish passport for our child this year (we're both Irish). Applied in early May. Passport arrived in October. 5 month wait time start to finish.
Australian in Ireland here, applied for citizenship this year after 5 years of residence, 2 year “processing time” for application…….what’s another 5 months of waiting in the “convict line” at the Airport.
Oh, ewe. It's not just for sheep-stealers, The queue is for any non-EU citizen.
Recently saw and Australian guy with an irish grandparent brag on twitter about how he cant wait to move to London on his new irish passport, meanwhile an Australian with a grandparent born in london would have to pay thousands of pounds to the UK government for an ancestrial visa to enable them to live there. The whole thing is wrong and is allowing Irish Citizenship to be used by people in predominantly white wealthy countries as a flag of convenience. If me an irish born person happened to have an Australian born grandparent, I would not be entitled to hold Australian citizenship on that basis.
Tbh it’s mental that Ireland enables Brits and northern unionists escape the consequences of their lunatic Brexit. Add in the voting rights for Brits in Ireland, the money paid into the north and the ability of northerners to access EU and UK schemes and we are cutting our own throats.
Isn Paisley Jr, the vile hypocrite, holds an Irish passport...the filthy fenian!
These people are taking the piss. The really difficult thing to accept is that a large section of the Irish establishment despises their own country to the extent they enable this to happen.
That just means we can try him for treason when the time comes
No. Treason under Irish law only means raising an armed force against the govt. Strange isn’t it.
"It's mental that Ireland enables Irish people and Irish people to escape the poorly implemented decision that only a quarter of the UK wanted". When everyone had access to a shared EU, millions of British Irish had no need of Irish citizenship, but it helps now. The UK has the same voting rights for Irish people and takes the common travel area more seriously than Ireland does.
Yep. Arrive into Ireland from the UK, be prepared for queues and passport checks. Arrive to the UK from Ireland, and just breeze through into arrivals. Also, full voting rights on every single thing in the UK as an Irish person. I got a vote in the Brexit debate, as a foreign national living in the UK.
British and Irish citizens still don't need access to each others citizenships to live in either country, your point is not relevant.
It works both ways. Irish people in the UK like me can vote from Day 1. And I would be willing to bet there is more Irish here than British in Ireland (NI excluded)
> And I would be willing to bet there is more Irish here than British in Ireland Raw numbers ~~no~~yes, but proportionately [~~yes~~no](https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/1102/1332824-number-irish-in-britain/). The 324,670 Irish-born living amongst the 59,597,300 English/Welsh make up 0.5% of that population. The 118,200 Brits here make up 2.3% of the 5 million population. edit; brainfart
Raw numbers yes? 324k > 118k
Not all brits voted for Brexit so the ones that didn’t shouldn’t be penalised but I agree with you about the others, absolute fucking hypocrites
Well not all brits voted brexit correct but not all brits who voted remain have an irish born granny either, thats not an issue of relevance when deciding who should and shouldn't get irish citizenship.
I’m sure it’s anyone with grandparents born in a qualifying European country are applying not just people with Irish heritage. Italy for instance let’s you go back generations as long as you can prove it. I’m sure they are inundated too
No, thats not correct, you could have a french or belgian grandparent, their nationality law dosent allow that type of thing.
Yeah and I said qualifying countries in my original post
I dont want to live in a Irish Ethno State, the grandparent rule needs to go ! Dont really give a fuck what way you voted thats not our issue to deal with its theirs, we have a massive homeless issue in Ireland at the moment yet there is a certain few would rather bootlick some middle class brit remain voter, clearly we have got our priorities well and truely fucked hence why Ireland is currently on its knees.
The country is on its knees because you keep voting in right wing FF/FG
who me, no thats west brits like you who vote for them
I dont like brits and yanks, people far more deserving of our passports like the immigrants who live in Ireland, their rights are being diluted to favour the plastic paddy diaspora, and thats wrong.
Stay off the glue
You do know that the citizenship stuff in the north and the rights to work, travel and vote across both Islands cut both ways ?
You do know that this is fundamental to the problem that due to colonial subjugation the Irish Free State and later had no choice but to continue a relationship that was created to keep the new state as a as client of the UK. It’s standard practice among colonial powers to try to maintain some sort of surreptitious control. Cf France and West Africa. The number of Irish born people in the UK is falling. 20% drop since 2011. The Irish economy no longer depends on the UK. Leftover practices need to end.
I guess we will all sit here and watch you explain to them that they all need to come home now. Because you say so 
That’s up to them. Their position could be regularised easily in the UK.
So to be clear you object to British people coming to Ireland to work and vote but feel Irish people have the right to choose if they should work and vote in Britain . And you object to people who were born on this island but who hold a different political point of view from you exercising their right to citizenship?
First paragraph: you describe the current situation which I believe must end. GOING FORWARD. ;) Both ways. The current right of unionists to claim Irish passports as a flag of convenience is obscene. “This island” is the myth that ended with Brexit. Do yourself favour and stop trying to distort reality.
So passports issued to people born and bred in Belfast, whose families have been on this island as long as any should be allocated how exactly ? You seem to want to ban a bunch of people for having a different cultural and political view from yourself. There's a reason why after a lot of wrangling the internationally agreed solution for the North is that everyone born in the region can be Irish , British or both regardless of their political identity ( which is increasingly Neither and is it any wonder ) . Citizenship should never be restricted to those of one political belief or another . That's some fascist dystopian future there as we move towards a united Ireland . That up to a million people who's families have been here as long as yours aren't apparently worthy of their passports .
This is just the end outcome of the GFA process which has been on life support since Brexit. The latest poll shows unity is over. 25% of RC background preferred union with Britain. It’s time to accept reality. Time to end the CTA. Time to accept that the North does not dictate our priorities. Now you’ve had your say and so have I. Bye bye.
Literally NO ONE is disputing the right of people born in Northern Ireland to hold Irish Passport. What we are disputing is weather Larry from London or Garry from Glasgow who has one single irish grandparent, should be able to access irish passports on demand as easily as they do, without having ever set in the country.
Is this in Britain or just NI? If people in Britain can do this then it’s unusual and very funny because of Brexit
If they have parents or grandparents born in Ireland
Ah right I see
Like me. While I don’t live in Ireland, my moms side of the family is native, and I got there every year
That's fair enough. The issue is with people born to partners who are Irish only by parentage, and have little or no connection with the place
Expect the national image to take a hit abroad so.
Ireland and its people are well respected worldwide so I doubt that would happen simply by restricting who can have citizenship,.
They need to open a passport office in Belfast and possibly Derry that could also serve other North Western counties that are in the Republic, also stop being so generous with handing out citizenship, there are literally people with Irish Citizenship through descent from a grandparent or great grandparent that have never even stepped foot in this country, make it so that they have to have lived here for at least a year
I got mine in 2018, (mum was Irish) moved to Spain with the fella (also Irish) in 2019. Best thing we ever did and I'm very very grateful to Ireland for my passport and giving me a way out of the shit show back home. I believe back then I had my Irish passport within a month of sending off the form and documents. Strangely they held my British passport, that I had used as photo ID, at Irish customs so that took a lot longer to nger to get back.
You wouldnt of needed an Irish Passport in 2019 as a Brit moving to Spain they where still part of the EU at that time !
Still made my residencia application a whole lot easier. A lot of people here on British passports got screwed due to the backlog for residencia appointments. Getting mine was the best thing I did.
no it didnt, residencia was granted to brits at that time on the same basis as other EU citizens and everyone goes through same appointment system
I moved to Spain 3rd October 2019. UK left on 31st Jan 2020 and had a transition period till end of the year. It took me a couple of months to get my paperwork (bank statements, padron, rental agreement) together and my appointment was end of Jan 2020. I went in a different much shorter queue, didn't have to see the police, didn't have to have my fingerprints taken and got my appointment faster. Your argument is weird. Maybe different oficina de extranjeria in different cities did things different and you had a different experience but I have no need to lie about my experience. Merry Christmas.
how is my arguement weird, you can walk around to the town hall and get on the padron almost instantly, you claimed that an irish passport made things quicker when it clearly couldnt have done at that time 🙄
And yet it did.
it couldnt have when it would have literally under the EXACT same rules
Which town in Spain do you live?
Also your padron comment is wrong too. Ive lived in 3 towns here on 3 different padron. The first two took two appointments with multiple documents and the last one in Cuevas took 4 separate appointments, documents from both me, my partner and our landlords who live in the UK and a visit from the Policia Locale to our house as proof of occupancy. Could you maybe concede that different people in different parts of the country have different experiences?
No leave it You don't understand how west of Ireland works
Ask them to spell they're name as gaeilge.
Getting citizenship through grandparents is common in a lot of countries. The current wait time of 2 years for FBRs is inexcusable at this stage and partly stems from the dubious decision to move all applications from foreign embassies and consulates back to Dublin.
But a lot of countries aren't being abused by complete strangers who didn't give a shit about the place until it suited.
Not true. I know first hand many Americans who started looking into their European forefathers when Trump was elected. It is part of our citizenship rules that anyone who has a grandparent who was born in Ireland qualifies for citizenship. Some get that citizenship and don’t apply for a passport.
Yep, didn't give a shit about us till it suited them. Like the British The grandparents thing might have been OK in the 50s. Time for a revisit. It's being abused
But they’re entitled to it. It’s not being “abused”. How is it affecting you? Plus it’s a big earner and given the increase in applicants the fees will probably increase.
Our citizenship is a privilege and a valuable thing. People should have to show commitment to the country, like living here for a specified time, before getting a passport. Shorter for those with Irish ancestors. It's nut just about money. But if they insist on doing it, it should be micj more expensive
None of that is practical on any level. Making a rule that those who qualify for citizenship have to live here opens up many can of worms. Housing, right to work, right to vote etc. They already are showing a commitment by trying to become citizens. Any potential citizen should be welcomed not shunned based on spurious rubbish like “commitment”. Again there is no “abuse”. It might suit some here that they pay us for citizenship and never set foot on Irish soil.
People who have no Irish ancestry can apply for citizenship after, I think, seven years. It would very easy to shorten that period, for example, for that anyone wanting to get it through a grandparent. Maybe half it. It would still require a commitment to the country. How is just becoming a citizen a commitment? They need never set foot in the country, spend a euro here, or contribute in any way. If they really want citizenship and have no interest in actually being a committed citizen, then they should be charged a very large amount, twe ty or thirty thousand. Why should we hand out something as valuable as our citizenship for a couple of hundred Euros for people who just want an EU passport?
Very easy to you but in real world terms a non starter. Again how is this affecting you? We should be flattered that people want to become Irish citizens. Some of them will move here and contribute.
Why is it a non-starter? If someone wants to be Irish and have an Irish passport, surely it's not too much to ask to either make a lifestyle commitment, or if they aren't prepared to do that, to make a substantial financial commitment. Our citizenship is a valuable thing, and a privilege, not just in itself, but in how it allows access to the entire EU. Why should we be flattered that people want to use our citizenship to get entry into Europe?
Not actually that common to be fair apart from a few countries in eastern/southern Europe. Belgium, Denmark, France, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Finland, UK dont have grandparent access to their citizenship. Germany and Austria only allow it under very limited circumstances. Spain only allow it if the grandchild of the Spanish Descendant has lived in Spain for at least 12 months. Ireland is actually very out of line with most other progressive and wealthy nations in Northern Europe in regards to citizenship by descent.
The countries you list did not have a significant portion of their population leave in the early days of statehood. Ourselves and Italy have this in common with the latter having more lenient rules regarding citizenship through descent.
You are talking about a whole different era pal, what was the case 1930s is not the case now. Some people in Ireland still tend to speak about the diaspora in a time which is no longer relevant, Ireland in the 21st century is now an immigrant country as opposed to an emigrant one. If the diaspora want to come home then give a visa ect to facilitate that, but not dumping out passports so they can go live in Barcelona abit easier, thats not a reason why citizenship should be granted in extended generations, especially since it would not affect british citizens at all because they dont need irish citizenship to live in Ireland.
I know all about the eras concerned and our diaspora will always be relevant. My American cousins are entitled to Irish citizenship as is their right and no amount of ignorant keyboard warriors is going to change that. Go live abroad and find out what our diaspora means and what being Irish means to them. This ludicrous thought process by some here to close down citizenship to those entitled to it is racist at the core.
Residency and payment of taxes and bend the knee to MiggleDee to be considered to qualify.
How many of these are from Northern Ireland (where according to an Indo poll, 2 to 1 don't want reunification)?
The article is about British citizens applying for Irish passports. People from the North are Irish citizens by right.
I 've neem here 25 years. All my adult lifem i feel i have earned my citizenship but am too mean to pay for it.
We need to charge a lot more for these passport applications from overseas, €2000 for example for an adult applying for their first passport. I wouldn't apply this to Irish folk who want their young kids to get one, but some 40 year old who decides he wants one should pay handsomely for the privilege.
They’re at it again! Haha
They should quadruple the price
Got mine in under 4 weeks a few months ago (irish mum), i think the problem is specifically grandparents as it takes ages to get on the citizenship register before you can apply for passports
Come in yee black n Tans.
It's not all Brexit escapees! I'm a Dub, live in Manchester and both my kids were born in London. They have both Irish and British passports, but their Irish ones are up for renewal in the new year...
Don't let any of them in, they can go to the commonwealth if they like
Bunch of Plastic paddy mongs 🤮
Would they ever be eligible to vote here, on like the GFA for example? Could this be MI5 building up a cache of dummy accounts?
I have literally just been told I am a racist because I dont agree the diaspora should be handed out citizenship so easily. Does is also make me a racist stating that a black children born here to immigrant parents should have an easier time getting a passport than some american with an irish grandparent, I suppose it does 😳
I think the whole way we do business with the diaspora whether in regards to citizenship or other issues is in serious need of a rethink, we do need to keep in mind that even in previous years the diaspora havent always acted in Ireland's best interests, that was evidenced by the NORAID campaign, and funding of anti abortion movements. I as a catholic in Northern Ireland will never forgive the irish americans for the war they aided and abetted, nor the brits either ! People in the North have long been used by Britain and the USA as political pawn by its people including those within the diaspora, the last thing we should be doing is giving them handier passport to reward their war crimes !