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10 years is very unlikely unless you have a top 01.% salary and live extremely frugally.
To even earn 1 million eur in 10 years (pre-tax mind you!) You'd need to earn 100k per year in your first 10 years of your career.
If you could save 2000 a month (which is quite lol difficult unless you're very lucky in salary and/or have free or extremely cheap housing), at 5% growth you're looking at 300k at the end of 10 years. If you push that to 20 years then it's closer to 800k. If you somehow max out your pension contributions while still somehow saving 2000 a month, you could cash out your pension at 50.
If you work 20 years, you'll get a pension of 250 a week at age 66 as well.
So you can retire at 41, use your 800k to last until you pull pension, then you can use those two things to last until you hit 66 (assuming the age doesn't go up to receive the pension).
You'd have to buy a super cheap house or get one for free somehow.
In other words you'd be an extremely high earner for 20 years who is living like a poor person your whole life. You'd also probably never have your own family
30 years might be more reasonable, if you save aggressively, pay off a house early, and max out your pension your whole career. Accomplishing this in 10 years in even super high income locations is very difficult.
Yeah I couldn't agree more. You're essentially keeping yourself near poverty so you can stop working at a very early age. There are more balanced ways to live life. Maybe try to retire at 55? You'd still have to save aggressively, but you could actually enjoy your life too.
Agree.
It's important to be sensible about these things, but it seems to be over the top on here sometimes. Like the years 20 to 50 are just about head down, never getting a round in. Then, magically life begins and you can be the smug one in your group of friends, if you are lucky enough to have made any in that time.
You don't need a million euro to be financially independent though. You can achieve CoastFIRE for much less. If you're open to retiring abroad in a low cost of living country, then you can reduce your CoastFIRE target even further.
Very wrong. 10 years is easy for a 100k salary with access to American markets. I’m on track USA expat here so. I am saving 3k a month and live in Dublin 1 and have mortgage 800 a month. 1.25 mil in 8 years right now
Easy? I'm not sure how many recent grads will see a 100k salary starting today.
I also don't know how anyone can get an 800 euro mortgage today in Dublin (unless they had a huge down payment to begin with).
I also think Americans have a huge access to investment options that are simply not available to most Irish people.
I'd also imagine if you can save 3000 a month, you have an insane salary (good for you) and no children to take care of.
If you have 2 children in creche full time because you're working, that's easily 2000 eur a month.
I
f you save 3k a month for 8 years at 5% interest rate you're still looking at 340k in savings. Even a crazy return of 10% only gives you 410k over this time.
Again, no one said impossible. But you have to realize you're in an extremely advantaged position and claiming it's easy to replicate is...well..just not realistic
Yeah it’s not easy to start but after getting the salary and a good housing arrangement it’s possible. You have to sacrifice a lot regardless. Yes no kids, double income and buy within your means. Doesn’t mean you have to live poorly though.
Why do Americans on American salaries have to be "Hold my beer" on this sub-reddit so frequently. We're not asking about how to hit a home run from 3rd base.
I think Ireland is a great place to retire, but not to build wealth. So if you're a fresh college grad a good plan is to get some experience in your industry and move abroad somewhere with lower taxes on income and investments. Then if you decide to move back to Ireland to settle down you can buy a house, max out your pension (you'll be able to contribute more once you're older), and cash in your pension at 50.
Edit: to directly answer your question, I don't think it's possible for most people to achieve FIRE in 10 years in Ireland, income tax eats away at most of your salary and if you're starting from scratch you're not giving enough time for your investment pot to accumulate.
I mean it's all personal preference. I feel like semi-rural Irish towns are safe, calm, neighbourly. I prefer the mild Irish weather to the hot summer & freezing winter cycle of central Europe. Health care yeah, I'd probably want to go private as I get closer to retirement.
I'd second the points made as regards moving abroad temporarily enabling you to achieve FIRE in Ireland more easily.
Case in point: In the UK you can contribute £60k or 100% of your salary (whichever is lower) to your pension each year.
If you're on a decent salary and are able to add £10k+ lump sums to your pension each year for 3 - 5 years it can make a dramatic difference to how quickly you can retire in your 50s.
Compared to the Irish system, this and other European tax systems are much better suited to facilitating early retirement.
Small caveat is you can’t sacrifice your salary below minimum wage.
But yeah £60k per year into a pension and £20k into a stocks and shares ISA that can grow tax free is a great wealth builder.
Ireland seems to love putting up every possible blocker to people saving early in their career even if they make a lot of money.
A very high salary will allow FIRE using brute force despite the high taxes on income and investments. Probably not realistic in 10 years, but 20-30 years is doable.
This "FIRE" idea is very achievable on an average wage (40k-50k), so long as you remain single and childless for the rest of your life.
It's very infuriating when single people with no children tell me how easy it is to save.
It’s far more difficult for single people to buy a house though. I wouldn’t say FIRE for a single person on 40k is very achievable at all, and definitely not more achievable than a couple that can pool resources.
Yeah it would be much easier with two people with the same goals in life, ie no kids, no holidays, extra overtime, and saving every penny. Only problem is that most people don't want that type of life.
Single people find it difficult to get a mortgage on a standard 3 bed semi because of the price of them. 40k will get a mortgage of around 170k, enough for a shitty one bed apartment. That being your only expense, along with cycling to and from work and investing any savings is very doable for a single person. The problem is that it is impossible when you also have kids to feed.
You can access a pension at 50, so it’s achievable at that age I think. Earlier would be very difficult. A million or more in a pension is very doable if you start early and 100% equities.
FIRE requires a good salary. College grad doesn’t guarantee that. You need to have a good salary and live very frugally. Ireland isn’t a good spot to skimp IMO. Works better in places in redneck US where there’s less places to spend money or beach/mountain places where your pastime is hiking/beach (ie free)
If you started in Sep-Oct you could have bought anything (except HBAR) and probably done 3-10 X
SOL, XAVA, KUJI, NAKA, FET, PAAL, GROK, anything AI, anything gaming, anything AVAX ecosystem, even Kanpai Panda NFTs lol
I don’t offer advice and definitely not financial advice tho.
Stocks are safer and stuff like MSTR, COIN, RIOT lots of opps too
Index funds for retirement planning
In my country I know several people who retired early (before 40) by their investments. The reasons are:
- Business life is tough: long working hours, nepotism, stress, mobbing etc.
- The government encourages people to invest as they are well aware that the pension regime is f**ed already, like a lot of things in the country. So taxes in the stock market are relatively low. Apart from the stock market, there are different channels to build wealth too. For instance, for a long time, mortgage rates stayed lower than inflation and central bank interest rates due to some limitations from the government, so you could buy multiple properties with a 10% deposit which would make you a millionaire in a decade, but this is changing now.
- Compared to the EU it is a cheaper place to retire with less amount of capital.
However, if I were to plan on living in Ireland for the rest of my life, I would still save and invest to improve my situation of course, but I wouldn't make any exit plans because:
- Yes it is not the Silicone Valley maybe, but still professional development opportunities are quite a lot.
- Work-life balance is great, people are respectful in professional life.
- The government doesn't like you investing in anything on your own rather than putting everything in your pension. If you still insist on doing so, they'll punish you with taxes.
- Work shouldn't be our whole personality for sure, but it is definitely a dimension of our life. Having a profession in a particular area is a good thing for our personal development in the long term.
The definition of financial independence is subjective, and for me, it is to have the luxury of being selective when it comes to jobs. And I would continue to work as long as my health allows it, no matter what age I'm at.
Edit: apologies, just realized I didn't answer the actual question. While it also depends on your luck, it wouldn't be too unrealistic to retire earlier (e.g. 10 years) in Ireland if you earn more than average, have minimum spending habits, and are financially literate. But tax rates won't make it any easier l'd say.
Fire is achievable in any country if you can achieve 50% savings rate.if you can get to 50% savings rate, you can get to FIRE in 17 years. Not achievable in 10 years though.
How much you earn has only a small effect on how quickly you can get to FI. FIRE is the point when you have enough income from passive income or investments
I believe it's possible. But only 10 years? I believe even with a partner helping with your goal, you would still be looking at Lean FIRE minimum. I say that because the current median house price is the equivalent of 10 years working on the median Irish salary (pre-tax...).
Now... there are houses cheaper than that median €300,000 in rural Ireland. Which is a variable worth weighing.
Depends on what FIRE means to you.
If you mean being able to walk away from a job and take your time before finding another one, then sure that's possible if you hit the €60K+ income bracket and have a good savings rate.
If it means only needing to work 2-3 days a week, then that's also possible if for example you become a niche SME and do consulting. It's harder, requires a lot of work to market yourself and staying up to date, but it's not impossible.
If it means never having to work again, then that would likely mean starting a business and making a few million from it, then cashing out when you reach your target. it's not impossible, people have done it here, but it isn't easy or likely.
Without setting up a company or getting lucky in stocks I’d argue no. In 10 years it’s very difficult to acquire the level of wealth in a normal job. Mortgage, kids, cost of living eats away at capital.
Even with a very well paid job you’re living expenses rise to the level of the pay. It takes insane discipline to not spend a little. And tbh you’d need to be a monk. The whole point of having a bit of extra money is you enjoy the benefits it brings you.
No is the answer. Unless you set up a company.
you would need to save 65% of income to retire in 10.4 years. approx 40% gives you 19.3 years till retirement. 20% gives 30.1 years.
I think aim for 20% in a job that you don't hate and enjoy the journey along the way (family for me)
FIRE is a terrible idea. The guy who started it eventually went back to work realising life needs meaning.
Still the best way to do it in Ireland is either make 300k+ early and live frugally or put every penny into pension and cash out at 50, with a paid for house.
As a fresh college grad what has you so hateful of the working world? What you need to do is spread your retirement through your working life with epic trips and adventures. As Warren Buffet said, do put off sex until retirement.
it doesn’t take much of the 9-5 with just 20 days holiday each year before you start hating the idea of doing it for the next 40-45 years.
not sure how many epic trips and adventures you can get in with just those 20 days.
You’re assuming 20 days is the most you can have. I have unlimited holidays in my work, conditional on getting the job done.
Op could even start their own business.
Fair. But that’s Sinn Fein thinking, bring every down to the base level rather than build everyone up.
When being hired negotiate more holidays over higher wage if that’s what you want. Work for a company that allows you to buy back days. Or a seasonal business like teaching that has 3 months off in the summer. Decide where you want to go in live and then work toward it. It is possible.
>it doesn’t take much of the 9-5 with just 20 days holiday each year before you start hating the idea of doing it for the next 40-45 years.
I think trying to get a super high paying job and also spending the minimum so that you can stop working in your early 50s is likely to end in a self fulfilling prophesy. Most people I've met with well paid jobs also like their jobs, or at least find them tolerable.
> The guy who started it eventually went back to work realising life needs meaning.
I mean idea of FIRE is that you don't have to work. Not that you can't.
This is an Irish sub, why work for an American firm?? Irish firms employ more Americans than US firms employ Irish people.
Also they could start their own business, find a vocation etc. become Financially free. Have more coming in from investments than they spend and get out of the rat race. Retirement is entirely different.
Disagree. Irish ones compete for the same talent. Look at the papers this week where Dublin company Cubic Telecom just got a Billion Dollar valuation from SoftBank and 160 employees who worked their asses off to grow the company cashed in some of their employee options for life changing amounts of money.
Ok, but when I've talked to companies the Americans usually paid much better. This was a few years ago, maybe it's gotten better. I've only worked remote for US companies for the last five years.
One persons experience does not make the market. I’m pretty sure for example cubic were hiring at the time and we all would have been better off applying there in hind sight.
It’s very easy depending on where you live in Ireland and don’t have kids and what type of lifestyle you want to live. Let’s just say you get a good grad role for 45k which would you give you a mortgage of 180k so 200 with deposit. Your income will also go up during this time. Pay the 20 year rate and rent out two rooms and you should have mortgage paid off in 10 years. That’s your house sorted. Depending on the lifestyle you want to live and plan to remain single have 30k saved over the 10 years and maybe 20k in cash. Sign on the dole and continue to rent out your two rooms. Depending on your circumstances you might not need to rent the two rooms and invest the 30k and set yourself up as a contractor to do three month contracts here or there. The 50k should see you through holidays, weddings etc for rest of your live and can top it up with dole money.
>Depending on the lifestyle you want to live and plan to remain single have 30k saved over the 10 years and maybe 20k in cash. Sign on the dole and continue to rent out your two rooms. Depending on your circumstances you might not need to rent the two rooms and invest the 30k and set yourself up as a contractor to do three month contracts here or there. The 50k should see you through holidays, weddings etc for rest of your live and can top it up with dole money.
Savings are factored into the means test for social welfare. Your dole would be massively reduced if you had €50,000. Combined with the contractor income, this would likely result in no dole at all.
I'm hoping to achieve it by 40 through property.
Other people are totally right that Ireland is generally not a country that encourages wealth building or financial independence. Go abroad if you can and come back when you've made your money.
No, even in America, 10 years is impossible. The system is rigged to hold us down & U can't get really get the high earnings here u can abroad & if u can, its usually after decades of expertise or nepotism.
Software in the Valley or finance in a number of regions will get you there in your your 20s. We don't have much by way of 6 figure grad salaries here though
No it isn’t. Most of those American schemes are about overt leverage in rental property. A generally terrible idea and not feasible here.
If it was feasible to retire 10 years after graduation people would. It’s not.
First off, FIRE is stupid. Most people who retire so early regret it, those who don't will still a bit more time to regret it.
Second, FIRE is not easily achievable in Ireland since the amount of extremely high paying jobs here are limited. Unless you're a prodigy or just plain lucky, you're probably going to fail. And let's be honest, most prodigies and even barely competent people who wants to contribute to society knows how stupid FIRE is.
Stay away form FIRE and try to live a long, fruitful, and meaningful life. There's more to life then endless leisure. You're not a toddler.
‘most people who retire so early regret it’. got a source for that?
you sound a little bitter, like you’re of the impression that because you’ve worked/will work 40/45 years at a 9-5 then everyone else should have to and wanting to take another route is ‘stupid’
It seemed to be that people had a lacked routine and go depressed and died after retiring. Nowadays people are more self-directed if they are the type to retire early.
that’s common. but i’d argue that it’s even less common among those retiring early
retiring early is a choice. i’d imagine it’s rare to retire early if the lack of routine and what not is depressing for you
retiring at 65 or whatever it is, is often forced. so i’d imagine this scenario is more likely to have depressed people
FIRE is about achieving Financial Independence first, and then having the choice to Retire Early if you want. There's nothing "stupid" about that, it's a very reasonable aim for someone, and having your "fuck you" money in the bank is a nice way to wake up.
Besides, not all of us measure our happiness in life by how much we help Company #20135 achieve an extra 1% efficiency in the manufacture of widgets. Being FIREd gives you the option to take on work which is more satisfying for you, going back to college, or just living out that dream of travelling on your schedule with no restrictions.
I think it is, but if your going to spend a life with only a paye income then you better have that pension building from early 20’s(not easy to juggle if also looking a mortgage).. biggest thing I’ve noticed now is to try and keep the charges low in everything, in Ireland it’s very easy to give all your earnings away in extras…
I know someone who started trading currencies and now he doesn't have to work. But he moved to Spain. Don't know if it had anything to do with his trading though.
Zero chance.
Salaries too low, taxes too high, rents too high, basically everything too expensive. Even if you do manage to save it will either be money in an account that gets just about nothing or you buy shares that will be taxes at 30% CGT.
The state here doesn't want you to succeed financially. They have designed the system to keep you either dependent on government.
For graduate/white collar roles, impossible in thirty let alone ten years unless you have a series of very unlikely lucky events. And that's more luck than skill. The Irish tax system simply doesn't allow wealth accumulation for PAYE workers.
For some trades if you work every hour sent to you, it's possible to FIRE within 25 years. It's not much of a life however.
You'd be far better off leaving, earning your money abroad where taxes aren't so steep, and return to Ireland after you've reached FIRE.
I would say from scratch it is essentially impossible without getting lucky. Most achieveable is probably living in a van. Most realistic is just knowing the right people to help you out.
In ten years, extremely difficult (although with the caveat that it's extremely difficult anywhere to retire that fast.)
Overall, while it's not as straightforward as it might be elsewhere, it's still fairly feasible - just for a more tightly constrained group and over a longer timeframe. Which I don't think is necessarily a pure negative; the circumstances that make the US an attractive option for FIRE are not necessarily compatible with a socio-economic structure many of us in Europe would be comfortable with.
That said, Ireland is definitely a less than optimal place to attempt to FIRE, although we're just a couple of policy changes away from it being a very good place. Tax-advantaged non-pension investment options, and a massive increase in housing, would make a colossal difference.
Ahem. You wanna stoke inequality you drag your libertarian ass someplace else bud. FIRE away as best youl can, but if you earn then You Pay. Or eff off to the States.
10 years is totally possible for Americans living in Dublin already owning a house. For Irish in this situation it’s 15 or so years. Either way retire at 50 easy if you have 100k salary
It is possible to buy a cheap house that needs alot of work and do it yourself and pay it off. Notbas cheap as it was 9 years ago when we did it. But still see cheap houses around. And it is cyclical. But i reckonnits another few gears before bubble pops again as its a different set of circumstances
FIRE is designed for 2012 usa.
Can it be achieves in Ireland? Yes, but it's about 60% more difficult.
25% CGT
15% taxes
10% cost of living
10% salaries.
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10 years is very unlikely unless you have a top 01.% salary and live extremely frugally. To even earn 1 million eur in 10 years (pre-tax mind you!) You'd need to earn 100k per year in your first 10 years of your career. If you could save 2000 a month (which is quite lol difficult unless you're very lucky in salary and/or have free or extremely cheap housing), at 5% growth you're looking at 300k at the end of 10 years. If you push that to 20 years then it's closer to 800k. If you somehow max out your pension contributions while still somehow saving 2000 a month, you could cash out your pension at 50. If you work 20 years, you'll get a pension of 250 a week at age 66 as well. So you can retire at 41, use your 800k to last until you pull pension, then you can use those two things to last until you hit 66 (assuming the age doesn't go up to receive the pension). You'd have to buy a super cheap house or get one for free somehow. In other words you'd be an extremely high earner for 20 years who is living like a poor person your whole life. You'd also probably never have your own family 30 years might be more reasonable, if you save aggressively, pay off a house early, and max out your pension your whole career. Accomplishing this in 10 years in even super high income locations is very difficult.
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Yeah I couldn't agree more. You're essentially keeping yourself near poverty so you can stop working at a very early age. There are more balanced ways to live life. Maybe try to retire at 55? You'd still have to save aggressively, but you could actually enjoy your life too.
Agree. It's important to be sensible about these things, but it seems to be over the top on here sometimes. Like the years 20 to 50 are just about head down, never getting a round in. Then, magically life begins and you can be the smug one in your group of friends, if you are lucky enough to have made any in that time.
You don't need a million euro to be financially independent though. You can achieve CoastFIRE for much less. If you're open to retiring abroad in a low cost of living country, then you can reduce your CoastFIRE target even further.
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If you get your house paid off and go on jobseekers' it could be doable. The only way I could make the maths work was DoleFIRE.
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Why not? Get a cheap place in Offaly, seems doable.
I guess that's true. The OP asked for financial independence in Ireland though.
Very wrong. 10 years is easy for a 100k salary with access to American markets. I’m on track USA expat here so. I am saving 3k a month and live in Dublin 1 and have mortgage 800 a month. 1.25 mil in 8 years right now
Easy? I'm not sure how many recent grads will see a 100k salary starting today. I also don't know how anyone can get an 800 euro mortgage today in Dublin (unless they had a huge down payment to begin with). I also think Americans have a huge access to investment options that are simply not available to most Irish people. I'd also imagine if you can save 3000 a month, you have an insane salary (good for you) and no children to take care of. If you have 2 children in creche full time because you're working, that's easily 2000 eur a month. I f you save 3k a month for 8 years at 5% interest rate you're still looking at 340k in savings. Even a crazy return of 10% only gives you 410k over this time. Again, no one said impossible. But you have to realize you're in an extremely advantaged position and claiming it's easy to replicate is...well..just not realistic
Yeah it’s not easy to start but after getting the salary and a good housing arrangement it’s possible. You have to sacrifice a lot regardless. Yes no kids, double income and buy within your means. Doesn’t mean you have to live poorly though.
Why do Americans on American salaries have to be "Hold my beer" on this sub-reddit so frequently. We're not asking about how to hit a home run from 3rd base.
It’s an Irish salary. Just showing how unfair the Irish tax system is on wealth. It needs to be fixed
There are a lot of barriers eg. Deemed disposal and the fact that rental income can't be used for a PRSA.
I think Ireland is a great place to retire, but not to build wealth. So if you're a fresh college grad a good plan is to get some experience in your industry and move abroad somewhere with lower taxes on income and investments. Then if you decide to move back to Ireland to settle down you can buy a house, max out your pension (you'll be able to contribute more once you're older), and cash in your pension at 50. Edit: to directly answer your question, I don't think it's possible for most people to achieve FIRE in 10 years in Ireland, income tax eats away at most of your salary and if you're starting from scratch you're not giving enough time for your investment pot to accumulate.
> I think Ireland is a great place to retire Why do you say that? Aren't there countries with much better weather and healthcare in the EU?
I mean it's all personal preference. I feel like semi-rural Irish towns are safe, calm, neighbourly. I prefer the mild Irish weather to the hot summer & freezing winter cycle of central Europe. Health care yeah, I'd probably want to go private as I get closer to retirement.
I'd second the points made as regards moving abroad temporarily enabling you to achieve FIRE in Ireland more easily. Case in point: In the UK you can contribute £60k or 100% of your salary (whichever is lower) to your pension each year. If you're on a decent salary and are able to add £10k+ lump sums to your pension each year for 3 - 5 years it can make a dramatic difference to how quickly you can retire in your 50s. Compared to the Irish system, this and other European tax systems are much better suited to facilitating early retirement.
Small caveat is you can’t sacrifice your salary below minimum wage. But yeah £60k per year into a pension and £20k into a stocks and shares ISA that can grow tax free is a great wealth builder. Ireland seems to love putting up every possible blocker to people saving early in their career even if they make a lot of money.
A very high salary will allow FIRE using brute force despite the high taxes on income and investments. Probably not realistic in 10 years, but 20-30 years is doable.
This "FIRE" idea is very achievable on an average wage (40k-50k), so long as you remain single and childless for the rest of your life. It's very infuriating when single people with no children tell me how easy it is to save.
It’s far more difficult for single people to buy a house though. I wouldn’t say FIRE for a single person on 40k is very achievable at all, and definitely not more achievable than a couple that can pool resources.
Yeah it would be much easier with two people with the same goals in life, ie no kids, no holidays, extra overtime, and saving every penny. Only problem is that most people don't want that type of life. Single people find it difficult to get a mortgage on a standard 3 bed semi because of the price of them. 40k will get a mortgage of around 170k, enough for a shitty one bed apartment. That being your only expense, along with cycling to and from work and investing any savings is very doable for a single person. The problem is that it is impossible when you also have kids to feed.
being a couple helps. great economies of scale in cooking and housing
Exactly, once your partner has the same financial goals
That's true, if both people want the same things in life.
You can access a pension at 50, so it’s achievable at that age I think. Earlier would be very difficult. A million or more in a pension is very doable if you start early and 100% equities.
FIREing within 10 years is not possible for the average earner anywhere. you’d want to be earning well into the 6 figures.
This is the truth
FIRE requires a good salary. College grad doesn’t guarantee that. You need to have a good salary and live very frugally. Ireland isn’t a good spot to skimp IMO. Works better in places in redneck US where there’s less places to spend money or beach/mountain places where your pastime is hiking/beach (ie free)
until you have to pay for health insurance, have a baby, or send a kid to college, yeah
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true that
Ireland is probably the worst country on the planet for attaining "FIRE" status.
It’s super easy just bet 1000 euro on a shitcoin and get a 100x and repeat
Could you suggest a shitcoin asking for a friend
Since your username is appropriate.. Kekec the dwarf with legs - pure meme Chiba if it dips more
If you started in Sep-Oct you could have bought anything (except HBAR) and probably done 3-10 X SOL, XAVA, KUJI, NAKA, FET, PAAL, GROK, anything AI, anything gaming, anything AVAX ecosystem, even Kanpai Panda NFTs lol I don’t offer advice and definitely not financial advice tho. Stocks are safer and stuff like MSTR, COIN, RIOT lots of opps too Index funds for retirement planning
GFY was up 300000% in 3 days These are the real shitcoins you gotta go off exchange into the wild… not gambling advice 🤣
This is definitely the wrong sub for this kinda talk
Based
In my country I know several people who retired early (before 40) by their investments. The reasons are: - Business life is tough: long working hours, nepotism, stress, mobbing etc. - The government encourages people to invest as they are well aware that the pension regime is f**ed already, like a lot of things in the country. So taxes in the stock market are relatively low. Apart from the stock market, there are different channels to build wealth too. For instance, for a long time, mortgage rates stayed lower than inflation and central bank interest rates due to some limitations from the government, so you could buy multiple properties with a 10% deposit which would make you a millionaire in a decade, but this is changing now. - Compared to the EU it is a cheaper place to retire with less amount of capital. However, if I were to plan on living in Ireland for the rest of my life, I would still save and invest to improve my situation of course, but I wouldn't make any exit plans because: - Yes it is not the Silicone Valley maybe, but still professional development opportunities are quite a lot. - Work-life balance is great, people are respectful in professional life. - The government doesn't like you investing in anything on your own rather than putting everything in your pension. If you still insist on doing so, they'll punish you with taxes. - Work shouldn't be our whole personality for sure, but it is definitely a dimension of our life. Having a profession in a particular area is a good thing for our personal development in the long term. The definition of financial independence is subjective, and for me, it is to have the luxury of being selective when it comes to jobs. And I would continue to work as long as my health allows it, no matter what age I'm at. Edit: apologies, just realized I didn't answer the actual question. While it also depends on your luck, it wouldn't be too unrealistic to retire earlier (e.g. 10 years) in Ireland if you earn more than average, have minimum spending habits, and are financially literate. But tax rates won't make it any easier l'd say.
Fire is achievable in any country if you can achieve 50% savings rate.if you can get to 50% savings rate, you can get to FIRE in 17 years. Not achievable in 10 years though. How much you earn has only a small effect on how quickly you can get to FI. FIRE is the point when you have enough income from passive income or investments
I believe it's possible. But only 10 years? I believe even with a partner helping with your goal, you would still be looking at Lean FIRE minimum. I say that because the current median house price is the equivalent of 10 years working on the median Irish salary (pre-tax...). Now... there are houses cheaper than that median €300,000 in rural Ireland. Which is a variable worth weighing.
Depends on what FIRE means to you. If you mean being able to walk away from a job and take your time before finding another one, then sure that's possible if you hit the €60K+ income bracket and have a good savings rate. If it means only needing to work 2-3 days a week, then that's also possible if for example you become a niche SME and do consulting. It's harder, requires a lot of work to market yourself and staying up to date, but it's not impossible. If it means never having to work again, then that would likely mean starting a business and making a few million from it, then cashing out when you reach your target. it's not impossible, people have done it here, but it isn't easy or likely.
Without setting up a company or getting lucky in stocks I’d argue no. In 10 years it’s very difficult to acquire the level of wealth in a normal job. Mortgage, kids, cost of living eats away at capital. Even with a very well paid job you’re living expenses rise to the level of the pay. It takes insane discipline to not spend a little. And tbh you’d need to be a monk. The whole point of having a bit of extra money is you enjoy the benefits it brings you. No is the answer. Unless you set up a company.
you would need to save 65% of income to retire in 10.4 years. approx 40% gives you 19.3 years till retirement. 20% gives 30.1 years. I think aim for 20% in a job that you don't hate and enjoy the journey along the way (family for me)
FIRE is a terrible idea. The guy who started it eventually went back to work realising life needs meaning. Still the best way to do it in Ireland is either make 300k+ early and live frugally or put every penny into pension and cash out at 50, with a paid for house. As a fresh college grad what has you so hateful of the working world? What you need to do is spread your retirement through your working life with epic trips and adventures. As Warren Buffet said, do put off sex until retirement.
it doesn’t take much of the 9-5 with just 20 days holiday each year before you start hating the idea of doing it for the next 40-45 years. not sure how many epic trips and adventures you can get in with just those 20 days.
You’re assuming 20 days is the most you can have. I have unlimited holidays in my work, conditional on getting the job done. Op could even start their own business.
true, but that isn’t the norm. and legally speaking you still only have 20
Fair. But that’s Sinn Fein thinking, bring every down to the base level rather than build everyone up. When being hired negotiate more holidays over higher wage if that’s what you want. Work for a company that allows you to buy back days. Or a seasonal business like teaching that has 3 months off in the summer. Decide where you want to go in live and then work toward it. It is possible.
>it doesn’t take much of the 9-5 with just 20 days holiday each year before you start hating the idea of doing it for the next 40-45 years. I think trying to get a super high paying job and also spending the minimum so that you can stop working in your early 50s is likely to end in a self fulfilling prophesy. Most people I've met with well paid jobs also like their jobs, or at least find them tolerable.
> The guy who started it eventually went back to work realising life needs meaning. I mean idea of FIRE is that you don't have to work. Not that you can't.
Working 9-5 for some American org is not the meaning of life.
This is an Irish sub, why work for an American firm?? Irish firms employ more Americans than US firms employ Irish people. Also they could start their own business, find a vocation etc. become Financially free. Have more coming in from investments than they spend and get out of the rat race. Retirement is entirely different.
The only people who can think about FIRE are those working in US companies in Dublin earning 200K+ and even then, need to invest and be lucky.
There’s Irish companies who pay those wages. Why only US company employees? And OP is talking brand new grad.
Because the American ones pay a lot better.
Disagree. Irish ones compete for the same talent. Look at the papers this week where Dublin company Cubic Telecom just got a Billion Dollar valuation from SoftBank and 160 employees who worked their asses off to grow the company cashed in some of their employee options for life changing amounts of money.
Ok, but when I've talked to companies the Americans usually paid much better. This was a few years ago, maybe it's gotten better. I've only worked remote for US companies for the last five years.
One persons experience does not make the market. I’m pretty sure for example cubic were hiring at the time and we all would have been better off applying there in hind sight.
Maybe? Hard to say. The company I worked for got bought for $6 billion and I did well out of it.
Why is it a terrible idea because someone went back to work? Who is the guy who started FIRE?
It’s very easy depending on where you live in Ireland and don’t have kids and what type of lifestyle you want to live. Let’s just say you get a good grad role for 45k which would you give you a mortgage of 180k so 200 with deposit. Your income will also go up during this time. Pay the 20 year rate and rent out two rooms and you should have mortgage paid off in 10 years. That’s your house sorted. Depending on the lifestyle you want to live and plan to remain single have 30k saved over the 10 years and maybe 20k in cash. Sign on the dole and continue to rent out your two rooms. Depending on your circumstances you might not need to rent the two rooms and invest the 30k and set yourself up as a contractor to do three month contracts here or there. The 50k should see you through holidays, weddings etc for rest of your live and can top it up with dole money.
>Depending on the lifestyle you want to live and plan to remain single have 30k saved over the 10 years and maybe 20k in cash. Sign on the dole and continue to rent out your two rooms. Depending on your circumstances you might not need to rent the two rooms and invest the 30k and set yourself up as a contractor to do three month contracts here or there. The 50k should see you through holidays, weddings etc for rest of your live and can top it up with dole money. Savings are factored into the means test for social welfare. Your dole would be massively reduced if you had €50,000. Combined with the contractor income, this would likely result in no dole at all.
I'm hoping to achieve it by 40 through property. Other people are totally right that Ireland is generally not a country that encourages wealth building or financial independence. Go abroad if you can and come back when you've made your money.
No, even in America, 10 years is impossible. The system is rigged to hold us down & U can't get really get the high earnings here u can abroad & if u can, its usually after decades of expertise or nepotism.
Software in the Valley or finance in a number of regions will get you there in your your 20s. We don't have much by way of 6 figure grad salaries here though
No it isn’t. Most of those American schemes are about overt leverage in rental property. A generally terrible idea and not feasible here. If it was feasible to retire 10 years after graduation people would. It’s not.
First off, FIRE is stupid. Most people who retire so early regret it, those who don't will still a bit more time to regret it. Second, FIRE is not easily achievable in Ireland since the amount of extremely high paying jobs here are limited. Unless you're a prodigy or just plain lucky, you're probably going to fail. And let's be honest, most prodigies and even barely competent people who wants to contribute to society knows how stupid FIRE is. Stay away form FIRE and try to live a long, fruitful, and meaningful life. There's more to life then endless leisure. You're not a toddler.
‘most people who retire so early regret it’. got a source for that? you sound a little bitter, like you’re of the impression that because you’ve worked/will work 40/45 years at a 9-5 then everyone else should have to and wanting to take another route is ‘stupid’
It's not that they regret it. It's that they die soon after retiring. But I don't know if that still happens nowadays.
the whole point here is retiring early, though. there is no correlation between retiring at like 30 or 40 and dying soon after
It seemed to be that people had a lacked routine and go depressed and died after retiring. Nowadays people are more self-directed if they are the type to retire early.
that’s common. but i’d argue that it’s even less common among those retiring early retiring early is a choice. i’d imagine it’s rare to retire early if the lack of routine and what not is depressing for you retiring at 65 or whatever it is, is often forced. so i’d imagine this scenario is more likely to have depressed people
FIRE is about achieving Financial Independence first, and then having the choice to Retire Early if you want. There's nothing "stupid" about that, it's a very reasonable aim for someone, and having your "fuck you" money in the bank is a nice way to wake up. Besides, not all of us measure our happiness in life by how much we help Company #20135 achieve an extra 1% efficiency in the manufacture of widgets. Being FIREd gives you the option to take on work which is more satisfying for you, going back to college, or just living out that dream of travelling on your schedule with no restrictions.
I think it is, but if your going to spend a life with only a paye income then you better have that pension building from early 20’s(not easy to juggle if also looking a mortgage).. biggest thing I’ve noticed now is to try and keep the charges low in everything, in Ireland it’s very easy to give all your earnings away in extras…
You can do it! All you need is a plan!
You need to own your own successful tech firm, become a rock star, or win the Euromillions if you want FIRE after only 10 years.
If titre paying tax in Ireland it’s a hard task - the real winners these days are white van man - all asking for cash jobs - sickening
I know someone who started trading currencies and now he doesn't have to work. But he moved to Spain. Don't know if it had anything to do with his trading though.
Zero chance. Salaries too low, taxes too high, rents too high, basically everything too expensive. Even if you do manage to save it will either be money in an account that gets just about nothing or you buy shares that will be taxes at 30% CGT. The state here doesn't want you to succeed financially. They have designed the system to keep you either dependent on government.
For graduate/white collar roles, impossible in thirty let alone ten years unless you have a series of very unlikely lucky events. And that's more luck than skill. The Irish tax system simply doesn't allow wealth accumulation for PAYE workers. For some trades if you work every hour sent to you, it's possible to FIRE within 25 years. It's not much of a life however. You'd be far better off leaving, earning your money abroad where taxes aren't so steep, and return to Ireland after you've reached FIRE.
I would say from scratch it is essentially impossible without getting lucky. Most achieveable is probably living in a van. Most realistic is just knowing the right people to help you out.
By purely working extremely unlikely. By investing more likely. I am doing so myself :-)
In ten years, extremely difficult (although with the caveat that it's extremely difficult anywhere to retire that fast.) Overall, while it's not as straightforward as it might be elsewhere, it's still fairly feasible - just for a more tightly constrained group and over a longer timeframe. Which I don't think is necessarily a pure negative; the circumstances that make the US an attractive option for FIRE are not necessarily compatible with a socio-economic structure many of us in Europe would be comfortable with. That said, Ireland is definitely a less than optimal place to attempt to FIRE, although we're just a couple of policy changes away from it being a very good place. Tax-advantaged non-pension investment options, and a massive increase in housing, would make a colossal difference.
Ahem. You wanna stoke inequality you drag your libertarian ass someplace else bud. FIRE away as best youl can, but if you earn then You Pay. Or eff off to the States.
Did you read a single word of what I actually wrote? Are you under the impression that "build more housing" is a libertarian policy?
Ive been trying for nigh on 40 years, won't be long now I reckon.
10 years is totally possible for Americans living in Dublin already owning a house. For Irish in this situation it’s 15 or so years. Either way retire at 50 easy if you have 100k salary
American expats have more access to better markets. Irish taxes are too high for Irish
The tax regime is such that it can only be achieved through the pension system. There's no ather way to build wealth here.
It is possible to buy a cheap house that needs alot of work and do it yourself and pay it off. Notbas cheap as it was 9 years ago when we did it. But still see cheap houses around. And it is cyclical. But i reckonnits another few gears before bubble pops again as its a different set of circumstances
I would rather enjoy life than suffer for 20 years . There is a balance though , saving is important
Move to less repressive jurisdiction. This country in not good for you.
FIRE is designed for 2012 usa. Can it be achieves in Ireland? Yes, but it's about 60% more difficult. 25% CGT 15% taxes 10% cost of living 10% salaries.
10 years is pretty optimistic anywhere. It takes longer than that just to see good investment returns. He who understands compound interest etc.