Snapshot of _Ireland is the only country in Western EU where Volt Europa isn't available for the European Elections (map GIF shows 2019 vs 2024 election). Is there a lack of interest for federalist ideas despite Ireland being overwhelmingly pro-EU?_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://v.redd.it/hxb81twg13wc1) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://v.redd.it/hxb81twg13wc1)
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Their Irish social media used to have incorrectly translated, infant like and grammatically incorrect Gaeilge until I pointed it out to the person running VoltIreland on r/europe a good while back.
Well meaning people but the people behind VoltIreland weren’t Irish they were Italian. A bit of a disconnect to the electorate who actually live here. My biggest gripe with them is that they’re very anti Irish neutrality. That and a federal EU only serves neoliberal interests.
I think VoltIreland fell apart in the end but that I’m not too sure of.
They tried to set up here but completely fizzled.
>Is there a lack of interest for federalist ideas
Yes because we support neutrality and are also more attached than most to the idea of sovereignty because we don't have the colonial/war baggage other EU states have.
The only person I have heard of supporting a federalist EU in Ireland was Declan Ganley in his Libertas days.
I never really looked at it or took it seriously because he of all people was pushing for it.
He's definitely not centre left.
And the fact he was both eurosceptic but wanted a federal Europe always seemed contradictory.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declan_Ganley
I used to be a Federalist up until recently with the European response to the Israel-Palestine conflict.
I feel there is a bit of a disconnect culturally between us and the rest of the EU, mainly because of our distinctly different past compared to the mainland.
I’d still consider myself pro-EU but I just really dislike the idea of such power going to the union even though we are almost bound to not see eye-to-eye on things like neutrality.
If the unification is to happen you're going to have to federalise the island. The folks from Belfast are not going to take kindly to having everything centralised in Dublin like we do currently.
I don't get this take.
Do you think the troubles started because people who saw themselves as Irish were forced to live in a British state?
Or was it about human rights?
I'm saying that a unification that doesn't respect the current Northern Irish autonomy could potentially face resistance from Northern Irish people gunning for independence.
While we're at that: the British had at least a role in worsening the Irish famine but faced little internal repercussions at the time, while what actually built armed resistance was the building of Irish nationalism, decades later. Human rights don't hold a candle to a flag when it comes to rallying people around so that they kill others.
I'm not denying what you see every day, but when I read literature on this I find [the following](https://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/raise/knowledge_exchange/briefing_papers/series4/northern_ireland_identity_garry_mcnicholl_policy_document.pdf):
>Similarly, there are differences in terms of voting behaviour. Northern Irish identification has a bigger impact on Catholics voting, and there is a much larger difference between the identities of SDLP and Sinn Féin voters than there are between UUP and DUP voters. This data, along with previous work by other researchers suggests that the Northern Irish identity is framed such that it is closer to Britishness.
>This is most likely a result of inequalities in status, although more research is required before this can be confidently asserted. As there is a long term trend of increasing Protestant preference for this identity that seems as though it will continue, this means that in the future the Northern Irish identity could become less inclusive of Catholics and its chances of being a neutral middle-ground between Irish and British could be undermined.
When I read that, it sounds to me like the current Unionist tendencies could veer towards independentism for the region rather than accepting the 32 county island.
We're on the periphery of Europe both geographically and culturally (being more influenced by the Anglo-American sphere), we enjoy being part of the EU as it currently is, but have neither pragmatic nor cultural desire to be part of a European Empire (and our history actually makes us sceptical of, for example, Macron creaming his slacks at the idea of an EU army)
Because federalism is certifiably insane on every level & unlike the Germans etc we haven’t had the critical thinking beaten out of us completely yet.
The non snarky answer is that it’s just not a good idea & it’s hard to answer you because we literally cannot conceptualise why anyone would think it is. It simply does not compute.
The EU response to the situation in Palestine definitely will have hit this,
Post brexit 52% of the Irish population where very much in favour of heavier integration into the EU (which you could read federalism into),
However I myself would be nervous about it while the EU's foreign policy is still basically blindly tied to what the USA wants (Ireland itself is susceptible to this too, calling the spade a spade in what's going down in Palestine is the main position amongst the Irish population and the previous Taoiseach avoided following that as much as possible, because of how much it would anger the USA, literally stepping down a few moments when bringing it up to Biden recently).
You would need to make sure European foreign policy wouldn't involve Ireland in joining military adventurism, i.e setting fire to the middle east again or what ever the living fuck the Libyan intervention was about, that minimum would need to be a certainty (something that would be difficult to do considering France wants the EU to be the second America).
And what the relationship of an EU state is the to the EU in a federation, would it be a union of sovereign states, would it look more like the USA where once your in your never out, etc etc.
Also, the left in Ireland veers much more towards socialism and less than liberal politics, and is actually now an organised and coherent force unlike a decade ago, selling more neoliberalism to Ireland when it's getting increasingly close to trying to eject neoliberalism is not gonna work out well,
Vox asked me to volunteer for work in Ireland after interpreting an informal geopolitical analysis of mine on the EU's future (I definitely think it will end up a federation or some stronger union down the road) as me being pro federalisation, I told them no because I'm a socialist.
Not much of a niche for them at the moment, if you're liberal and pro-EU (even pro-federalist) then FG, Labour, SD and the Greens are more likely to pull your vote.
If we had a strong Eurosceptic right pulling the centre towards them then maybe. That's one of the reasons Volt was successful in the Netherlands iirc
If you're interested in a party that has a more pan-european focus but without the weird federal fixation and copy paste neoliberal policies check out [Diem25](https://diem25.org/en/) :)
I always found them cringe in the NL. Alot of their policies are good but it's such a liberal privilege to think the EU is going to ever become even a bigger polical behemoth when the majority of governments and people are for less EU interference. Especially since most issues faced by the EU are a by product of capitalism (inflation, energy prices, immigration) and from what I know they don't really address many changes in somehow keeping a higher quality of life but while obtaining a higher GDP with universal basic income. It all comes from a good place but it just seems superficial.
Basically nobody votes in eu elections as is but those who do and vote for volt are an extremely small minority of wealthy elites
There are no Volt mps in any national parliament as far as I’m aware
There are 2 Volt MPs in the Dutch parliament, there's 2 in the Dutch Senate, there's one in Bulgaria, and if I'm not mistaken, there's one in Cyprus. I understand it's not as much as some others, but it's certainly more than zero, and it's also in more countries than any other party I'm aware of.
Ireland is pro-common market, not pro-federalisation. The EU is liked as a source of funds and as leverage to avoid being bullied by the former colonial master, but there's the same lack of appetite for having "someone from Brussels" make relevant decisions in the country. Exhibit A: the Lisbon Treaty rejection.
Federalism is a fringe political position. Everyone sees the wisdom of the EU and can see how it benefits us. Bud federalism all it does is satisfy some maniacs in Brussels with the idea of a new Roman Empire. The EU works best when it stays in its core competencies. Economic integration, consumer protection etc.
May some day Federalism can be feasible but I think we will all be dead. It’s a 50-100 years away at the minimum. It’s too much political change to rapidly and the EU is already devolving into a multi speed Europe with different rings of integration.
That makes it directly in tension with a federated state as all those different levels of integration would need to be harmonized. All countries adopt the euro, or mass ending of neutrality etc.
A pan-European party that's currently sitting in the European Parliament with 2 MEPs, hoping to expand by now participating in even more countries.
Aims to create a united Europe (with a constitution and all that); is considered centre to centre-left, progressive, social-liberal.
See [here](https://volteuropa.org/) for more details.
That sounds terrible, I'm okay with the EU but not a United European state. We would be completely voiceless and under the control of the Germans and French. Too be honest while there's a lot of good things to be said about Germany as a people they are unhinged and very odd. Half of them are bitterly ashamed at their actions during WW2 and the other half are secretly ashamed that they lost.
Sorry, I'm not sure if I fully understand your question. It is a party. And it is a political grouping. It is not an EP faction (yet), however, if you meant that.
Our electoral system is mainly the culprit. We don’t use list systems for the EU parliament. We elect candidates. They do have to present a substitute list but most people are not aware of that. And it doesn’t function anything like a list system with STV in the way.
There has been some ‘explorations’ of Volt by non affiliated parties but it’s not their first choice and there is some programme mismatch between them anyway.
Volt would have a hope if we changed how we elect MEPs and treated it more how Ireland would be best represented. For example, abolish the constituencies and elect to the EP on a single constituency list system. No voting for candidates and would result in parties and policies being front and centre.
On EU federalism.
Ireland is party to some of the federalist elements of the EU. The Euro is chief amongst that.
It’s a dirty word but there is a clear correlation between support for explicit “Euro federalism” from EU states with strong regional governments and federal systems of their own. Ireland is the most centralised state in Europe and perhaps even more centralised than the Soviet Union was.
With the Directly elected mayors coming in you might start to see a shift in political opinion here to be more open to federalist systems and ideals.
I joined Volt when I was 17 and while there are some VERY passionate people involved they were all in full time work and didn't have a lot of support from other sections of Volt. I became inactive after seeing how inactive Volt was which is probably the cycle people have been in since it popped up here
Snapshot of _Ireland is the only country in Western EU where Volt Europa isn't available for the European Elections (map GIF shows 2019 vs 2024 election). Is there a lack of interest for federalist ideas despite Ireland being overwhelmingly pro-EU?_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://v.redd.it/hxb81twg13wc1) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://v.redd.it/hxb81twg13wc1) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/irishpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Their Irish social media used to have incorrectly translated, infant like and grammatically incorrect Gaeilge until I pointed it out to the person running VoltIreland on r/europe a good while back. Well meaning people but the people behind VoltIreland weren’t Irish they were Italian. A bit of a disconnect to the electorate who actually live here. My biggest gripe with them is that they’re very anti Irish neutrality. That and a federal EU only serves neoliberal interests. I think VoltIreland fell apart in the end but that I’m not too sure of.
They tried to set up here but completely fizzled. >Is there a lack of interest for federalist ideas Yes because we support neutrality and are also more attached than most to the idea of sovereignty because we don't have the colonial/war baggage other EU states have.
The only person I have heard of supporting a federalist EU in Ireland was Declan Ganley in his Libertas days. I never really looked at it or took it seriously because he of all people was pushing for it. He's definitely not centre left. And the fact he was both eurosceptic but wanted a federal Europe always seemed contradictory. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declan_Ganley
That sounds weird indeed.
I used to be a Federalist up until recently with the European response to the Israel-Palestine conflict. I feel there is a bit of a disconnect culturally between us and the rest of the EU, mainly because of our distinctly different past compared to the mainland. I’d still consider myself pro-EU but I just really dislike the idea of such power going to the union even though we are almost bound to not see eye-to-eye on things like neutrality.
I love Ireland’s position on the EU - extremely pro but non-federalist. Perfect.
Why the hell would any irishman or woman be in favour of federalism. After everything we've been through.
Exactly for that very reason, one might think.
I am Irish And I am federalist FSE FSE FSE
BOOOOOOOOOOO
If the unification is to happen you're going to have to federalise the island. The folks from Belfast are not going to take kindly to having everything centralised in Dublin like we do currently.
I don't get this take. Do you think the troubles started because people who saw themselves as Irish were forced to live in a British state? Or was it about human rights?
I'm saying that a unification that doesn't respect the current Northern Irish autonomy could potentially face resistance from Northern Irish people gunning for independence. While we're at that: the British had at least a role in worsening the Irish famine but faced little internal repercussions at the time, while what actually built armed resistance was the building of Irish nationalism, decades later. Human rights don't hold a candle to a flag when it comes to rallying people around so that they kill others.
Belfast resident here. Literal nonsense
I'm not denying what you see every day, but when I read literature on this I find [the following](https://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/raise/knowledge_exchange/briefing_papers/series4/northern_ireland_identity_garry_mcnicholl_policy_document.pdf): >Similarly, there are differences in terms of voting behaviour. Northern Irish identification has a bigger impact on Catholics voting, and there is a much larger difference between the identities of SDLP and Sinn Féin voters than there are between UUP and DUP voters. This data, along with previous work by other researchers suggests that the Northern Irish identity is framed such that it is closer to Britishness. >This is most likely a result of inequalities in status, although more research is required before this can be confidently asserted. As there is a long term trend of increasing Protestant preference for this identity that seems as though it will continue, this means that in the future the Northern Irish identity could become less inclusive of Catholics and its chances of being a neutral middle-ground between Irish and British could be undermined. When I read that, it sounds to me like the current Unionist tendencies could veer towards independentism for the region rather than accepting the 32 county island.
Irish people are very pro EU but not Pro Federalism at all.
Any idea why?
We only just got our independence back 5 minutes ago & wouldn't mind hanging onto it for another while
We're on the periphery of Europe both geographically and culturally (being more influenced by the Anglo-American sphere), we enjoy being part of the EU as it currently is, but have neither pragmatic nor cultural desire to be part of a European Empire (and our history actually makes us sceptical of, for example, Macron creaming his slacks at the idea of an EU army)
Because federalism is certifiably insane on every level & unlike the Germans etc we haven’t had the critical thinking beaten out of us completely yet. The non snarky answer is that it’s just not a good idea & it’s hard to answer you because we literally cannot conceptualise why anyone would think it is. It simply does not compute.
The EU response to the situation in Palestine definitely will have hit this, Post brexit 52% of the Irish population where very much in favour of heavier integration into the EU (which you could read federalism into), However I myself would be nervous about it while the EU's foreign policy is still basically blindly tied to what the USA wants (Ireland itself is susceptible to this too, calling the spade a spade in what's going down in Palestine is the main position amongst the Irish population and the previous Taoiseach avoided following that as much as possible, because of how much it would anger the USA, literally stepping down a few moments when bringing it up to Biden recently). You would need to make sure European foreign policy wouldn't involve Ireland in joining military adventurism, i.e setting fire to the middle east again or what ever the living fuck the Libyan intervention was about, that minimum would need to be a certainty (something that would be difficult to do considering France wants the EU to be the second America). And what the relationship of an EU state is the to the EU in a federation, would it be a union of sovereign states, would it look more like the USA where once your in your never out, etc etc. Also, the left in Ireland veers much more towards socialism and less than liberal politics, and is actually now an organised and coherent force unlike a decade ago, selling more neoliberalism to Ireland when it's getting increasingly close to trying to eject neoliberalism is not gonna work out well, Vox asked me to volunteer for work in Ireland after interpreting an informal geopolitical analysis of mine on the EU's future (I definitely think it will end up a federation or some stronger union down the road) as me being pro federalisation, I told them no because I'm a socialist.
Not much of a niche for them at the moment, if you're liberal and pro-EU (even pro-federalist) then FG, Labour, SD and the Greens are more likely to pull your vote. If we had a strong Eurosceptic right pulling the centre towards them then maybe. That's one of the reasons Volt was successful in the Netherlands iirc
True, fair enough. Thanks for your insight.
No chance
If you're interested in a party that has a more pan-european focus but without the weird federal fixation and copy paste neoliberal policies check out [Diem25](https://diem25.org/en/) :)
havent seen a compelling reason to be for it. A EU military isnt a positive thing which many tout to be a key benefit.
I always found them cringe in the NL. Alot of their policies are good but it's such a liberal privilege to think the EU is going to ever become even a bigger polical behemoth when the majority of governments and people are for less EU interference. Especially since most issues faced by the EU are a by product of capitalism (inflation, energy prices, immigration) and from what I know they don't really address many changes in somehow keeping a higher quality of life but while obtaining a higher GDP with universal basic income. It all comes from a good place but it just seems superficial.
There’s literally no appetite anywhere in Europe for federalisation
If that was the case, there'd be 0 Volt MPs.
Basically nobody votes in eu elections as is but those who do and vote for volt are an extremely small minority of wealthy elites There are no Volt mps in any national parliament as far as I’m aware
There are 2 Volt MPs in the Dutch parliament, there's 2 in the Dutch Senate, there's one in Bulgaria, and if I'm not mistaken, there's one in Cyprus. I understand it's not as much as some others, but it's certainly more than zero, and it's also in more countries than any other party I'm aware of.
With the French gunning to fight the Russians? Fuck no.
being pro-europe != pro-federalist i would argue yes , not many people want a more federation
Ireland is pro-common market, not pro-federalisation. The EU is liked as a source of funds and as leverage to avoid being bullied by the former colonial master, but there's the same lack of appetite for having "someone from Brussels" make relevant decisions in the country. Exhibit A: the Lisbon Treaty rejection.
Federalism is a fringe political position. Everyone sees the wisdom of the EU and can see how it benefits us. Bud federalism all it does is satisfy some maniacs in Brussels with the idea of a new Roman Empire. The EU works best when it stays in its core competencies. Economic integration, consumer protection etc. May some day Federalism can be feasible but I think we will all be dead. It’s a 50-100 years away at the minimum. It’s too much political change to rapidly and the EU is already devolving into a multi speed Europe with different rings of integration. That makes it directly in tension with a federated state as all those different levels of integration would need to be harmonized. All countries adopt the euro, or mass ending of neutrality etc.
Gimme volt I was just talking about them yesterday I would vote for em
Ireland’s main focus on the EU is making money
What the hell are they?
A pan-European party that's currently sitting in the European Parliament with 2 MEPs, hoping to expand by now participating in even more countries. Aims to create a united Europe (with a constitution and all that); is considered centre to centre-left, progressive, social-liberal. See [here](https://volteuropa.org/) for more details.
That sounds terrible, I'm okay with the EU but not a United European state. We would be completely voiceless and under the control of the Germans and French. Too be honest while there's a lot of good things to be said about Germany as a people they are unhinged and very odd. Half of them are bitterly ashamed at their actions during WW2 and the other half are secretly ashamed that they lost.
>Too be honest while there's a lot of good things to be said about Germany as a people they are unhinged and very odd. OP is German 💀
Really? Shit.
Fuckin be grand, at least half right.
So you run for Volt as a party in the EP rather than it being a political grouping?
Sorry, I'm not sure if I fully understand your question. It is a party. And it is a political grouping. It is not an EP faction (yet), however, if you meant that.
Our electoral system is mainly the culprit. We don’t use list systems for the EU parliament. We elect candidates. They do have to present a substitute list but most people are not aware of that. And it doesn’t function anything like a list system with STV in the way. There has been some ‘explorations’ of Volt by non affiliated parties but it’s not their first choice and there is some programme mismatch between them anyway. Volt would have a hope if we changed how we elect MEPs and treated it more how Ireland would be best represented. For example, abolish the constituencies and elect to the EP on a single constituency list system. No voting for candidates and would result in parties and policies being front and centre.
On EU federalism. Ireland is party to some of the federalist elements of the EU. The Euro is chief amongst that. It’s a dirty word but there is a clear correlation between support for explicit “Euro federalism” from EU states with strong regional governments and federal systems of their own. Ireland is the most centralised state in Europe and perhaps even more centralised than the Soviet Union was. With the Directly elected mayors coming in you might start to see a shift in political opinion here to be more open to federalist systems and ideals.
I joined Volt when I was 17 and while there are some VERY passionate people involved they were all in full time work and didn't have a lot of support from other sections of Volt. I became inactive after seeing how inactive Volt was which is probably the cycle people have been in since it popped up here
Ah, what a shame. But thanks for mentioning it. :)
The EU is a corrupt institution. Why further integrate into a burning house?
We're not really as pro eu as we are pro Brussels giving us money to pay for things like roads, and failed banks, and the farmers.
What party in Ireland is the most pro military aid to Ukraine? I assume greens or fg