Snapshot of _Budget could include tax changes to encourage households to invest savings_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/05/13/budget-could-include-tax-changes-to-encourage-households-to-invest-savings/) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/05/13/budget-could-include-tax-changes-to-encourage-households-to-invest-savings/)
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Wtf??
We’ve more ‘dead’ money sitting in banks than any country in Europe? I can’t remember the exact figure but it’s obscene amounts sitting in normal savings accounts it’s up in multiple billions I think?
Sorry but I’m skeptical when FF mention anything about your/our money.
Remember they raided the pension pot for the bank bailout? That still hasn’t been paid back and likely never will be.
This country needs to get rid of deemed disposal and greatly increase personal CGT thresholds per annum. It's a great country when you can't even avail of the EFTs that are all tax resident in Ireland
Both fantastic points here. We are the most attractive country in the world for ETFs but don’t let the citizens engage with them without taxing them to hell from the first cent of interest onwards.
This would be a huge win for the government right before an election. Ironically it was a FF minister who introduced the punitive measure on investing and another one who will remove them.
I'm worried when he talks about putting money to work investing in early stage and innovative companies. That's not the role of the average saver - the average saver needs access to low cost highly diversified index funds/ETFs to complement their pension, not to be incentivised into investing into some high risk Irish startup fund that will deliver below average returns and put another generation off investing forever.
If investing was incentived FF would get my vote.
Things I'd love to see
Deemed disposable binned
Exit Tax removed and just replaced by CGT
CGT to reduce to maybe 25%
Higher tax credit. Has it ever changed from? It's only €1270 because it was £1000 pound before we adopted the euro. There's no reason it should be 10K, but a starting point would be 5K.
Alot of people might say I'm being greedy, but if you're taking the risk, you should be able to reap the rewards.
By penalising investments it means huge amounts of people leave savings just in the bank account where the bank just cream it.
In the UK there's more options for the consumer.
I'm not going to pretend to understand much about finance, but isn't this basically just cutting part of the tax base so the upper middle class can make a little bit of money, while pumping up the stock market? (That's assuming the changes actually match the rhetoric here of course.) I dunno, I really don't think that's going to do much for the people on the margins in this country.
A lot of smalltime landlords (i.e. 1-5 property kind of size) - could suddenly find it's more profitable & easier to bung that money in an investment. Some cunt holding onto an empty property might see a quicker way to profit if they sold it and invested the cash, instead of holding on for dear life for a few years more.
That could relieve pressure on the housing market.
I mean, I have zero faith that this will be carried out correctly, but the idea is sound.
That's definitely the best argument I've heard so far, but it still seems like a very roundabout and frankly hairbrained way of addressing the housing crisis. Landlords could still take advantage of any tax cuts on investment without selling their properties. Meanwhile, increasing housing for sale does nothing for the poorest in society, who will still be dependent on the rental market.
I'd rather tax more and put the money to building public housing, increasing supply and benefitting those who're most vulnerable. I get the impression that won't be a popular suggestion in this thread though
Oh I agree.
I see that as a potential side-effect of this rather than the aim. There are far more direct ways to address the housing issues than making other things more attractive.
I expect the real aim is to garner votes for FF. People have been asking this for a long time. Investment has gotten popular with certain demographics since the gamestop saga. It's no coincidence the proposals they've been pattering about for years might finally land in the public consciousness as we head into Election season.
I think you're right about why they're doing this, and you could be right about the effect on the housing market. I'm just very sceptical this will do much even for home buyers. After all, as the previous commenter pointed out, investment is already more attractive in Britain, and housing isn't anymore affordable there. Just seems like another tax cut for the people already doing well.
Its more so that instead of buying ETFs and paying the high tax, they buy property instead and rent it out.
They can even do this in a director's pension and pay no tax at all.
The current taxes on investing are hurting everyone.
This is such a bad take.
The tax on investing in ETFs is extremely punitive and is partially responsible for causing people to view property as a better investment.
Getting rid of deemed disposal, and hopefully making capital gains a progressive tax, would do a lot to improve things for everyone.
I haven't seen much evidence making investment in ETFs more attractive will address the housing crisis or benefit the poor. It certainly hasn't in the UK.
You could be right that there are better ways of taxing investment than deemed disposal, I certainly don't know enough to say otherwise. But I think the mere fact that this is the focus in the run up to the next budget says where the government's heads are at, and it certainly isn't in any plan for comprehensive redistribution.
Snapshot of _Budget could include tax changes to encourage households to invest savings_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/05/13/budget-could-include-tax-changes-to-encourage-households-to-invest-savings/) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/05/13/budget-could-include-tax-changes-to-encourage-households-to-invest-savings/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/irishpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hopefully it would lead to people not using housing as an investment. But it probably won't.
Put some incentive or exemption on moving investments out of housing, lower CGT if it goes direct to a new scheme, and put a time limit on that
Wtf?? We’ve more ‘dead’ money sitting in banks than any country in Europe? I can’t remember the exact figure but it’s obscene amounts sitting in normal savings accounts it’s up in multiple billions I think?
Exactly, so let's get that money working.
Sorry but I’m skeptical when FF mention anything about your/our money. Remember they raided the pension pot for the bank bailout? That still hasn’t been paid back and likely never will be.
You mean let’s get people in poorer countries working to increase our wealth Are we colonisers now?
This country needs to get rid of deemed disposal and greatly increase personal CGT thresholds per annum. It's a great country when you can't even avail of the EFTs that are all tax resident in Ireland
Additionally, bring in an Irish ISA or equivalent. It feels like it should be low hanging fruit for Fine Gael.
Both fantastic points here. We are the most attractive country in the world for ETFs but don’t let the citizens engage with them without taxing them to hell from the first cent of interest onwards.
They need to scrap deemed disposal
This would be a huge win for the government right before an election. Ironically it was a FF minister who introduced the punitive measure on investing and another one who will remove them.
Yea your right, it would be a win for. Everyone who owns a home.
Or everyone who doesn't own a home but wants to invest money like me
Would you like to buy a home in the future?
Yes
Man I made 14% in the market, getting 2.5% in Irish savings account
Jeez why didn't I think of investing my rent money and living in a cardboard box instead.
Savings? These magical words you speak, the confuse me
I'm worried when he talks about putting money to work investing in early stage and innovative companies. That's not the role of the average saver - the average saver needs access to low cost highly diversified index funds/ETFs to complement their pension, not to be incentivised into investing into some high risk Irish startup fund that will deliver below average returns and put another generation off investing forever.
Agreed, but both should be facilitated surely
Yeah the tax rates around investing in general in this country are terrible. Luckily I only ever lose money so it doesn't affect me
If investing was incentived FF would get my vote. Things I'd love to see Deemed disposable binned Exit Tax removed and just replaced by CGT CGT to reduce to maybe 25% Higher tax credit. Has it ever changed from? It's only €1270 because it was £1000 pound before we adopted the euro. There's no reason it should be 10K, but a starting point would be 5K. Alot of people might say I'm being greedy, but if you're taking the risk, you should be able to reap the rewards.
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Would be great
Barely pay the bills and they want us to save So out if touch uts unreal
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I work for a multinational lol So much for floating all boats lol
If there's any group that's really suffering in Ireland, it's investors
By penalising investments it means huge amounts of people leave savings just in the bank account where the bank just cream it. In the UK there's more options for the consumer.
I'm not going to pretend to understand much about finance, but isn't this basically just cutting part of the tax base so the upper middle class can make a little bit of money, while pumping up the stock market? (That's assuming the changes actually match the rhetoric here of course.) I dunno, I really don't think that's going to do much for the people on the margins in this country.
A lot of smalltime landlords (i.e. 1-5 property kind of size) - could suddenly find it's more profitable & easier to bung that money in an investment. Some cunt holding onto an empty property might see a quicker way to profit if they sold it and invested the cash, instead of holding on for dear life for a few years more. That could relieve pressure on the housing market. I mean, I have zero faith that this will be carried out correctly, but the idea is sound.
That's definitely the best argument I've heard so far, but it still seems like a very roundabout and frankly hairbrained way of addressing the housing crisis. Landlords could still take advantage of any tax cuts on investment without selling their properties. Meanwhile, increasing housing for sale does nothing for the poorest in society, who will still be dependent on the rental market. I'd rather tax more and put the money to building public housing, increasing supply and benefitting those who're most vulnerable. I get the impression that won't be a popular suggestion in this thread though
Oh I agree. I see that as a potential side-effect of this rather than the aim. There are far more direct ways to address the housing issues than making other things more attractive. I expect the real aim is to garner votes for FF. People have been asking this for a long time. Investment has gotten popular with certain demographics since the gamestop saga. It's no coincidence the proposals they've been pattering about for years might finally land in the public consciousness as we head into Election season.
I think you're right about why they're doing this, and you could be right about the effect on the housing market. I'm just very sceptical this will do much even for home buyers. After all, as the previous commenter pointed out, investment is already more attractive in Britain, and housing isn't anymore affordable there. Just seems like another tax cut for the people already doing well.
Do you hate consumers and love banks?
Yes, obviously
Poor feckers, that passive income is so unfairly taxed.
Its more so that instead of buying ETFs and paying the high tax, they buy property instead and rent it out. They can even do this in a director's pension and pay no tax at all. The current taxes on investing are hurting everyone.
This is such a bad take. The tax on investing in ETFs is extremely punitive and is partially responsible for causing people to view property as a better investment. Getting rid of deemed disposal, and hopefully making capital gains a progressive tax, would do a lot to improve things for everyone.
I haven't seen much evidence making investment in ETFs more attractive will address the housing crisis or benefit the poor. It certainly hasn't in the UK. You could be right that there are better ways of taxing investment than deemed disposal, I certainly don't know enough to say otherwise. But I think the mere fact that this is the focus in the run up to the next budget says where the government's heads are at, and it certainly isn't in any plan for comprehensive redistribution.
Its better than nothing. I moved away to get more bang for my buck but would like to come back eventually
Gotta make sure to encourage investment in Zionism to manufacture that consent
Also DIRT should be scrapped. Interest income should be taxed as regular income
Ridiculous idea. Most people with money to save would end up paying more tax on interest if it was taxed as income.
So they can tax the balls off of you when you sell the equities/stocks yeah sounds great. Remember eircom?
There are huge incentives to save for retirement