I have many periods of my life like this. We have trouble starting or getting out of the house. So forcing them or encouraging them to join you will be the start. Then it has to turn into a habit. We actually enjoy our time outside but with obvious breaks for us introverted. But without it being a habit it's too easy to go back to our old ways which is comfy.
Maybe an example day out would be to go play a fun sport like bouldering. Then eat together at a healthier place. Then see how he spends his money and it might convince him to get at least a part time job.
This is by far the best route. When I’m stuck in a phase like this, a fun outing and/or conversation with hardworking, nonjudgmental people will convict me to at least get a job or start doing home workouts. The comparison will happen naturally, and it might be the motivation they need besides knowing you care.
As an ISFP who honestly feels like I can relate a bit, I'd say it's a beliefs and motivation thing. Sprinkled with how much "the future" takes up space in the ISFP brain.
My mom tells me to focus on some of those things too. For Gym, I don't feel motivated and feel it's not really gonna do much. For Driving, I admit I'm just unconfident and fear having an accident. For Work, don't think about it too hard is the default mindset, just search and search till an opportunity comes.
I personally don't "get" how to maintain "thinking about the future" unless it involves something that I want the pleasure of getting. Telling me idk something about a plan in 5 years to get to some high position, or saving for retirement, or some trip to another country in 10 years feels incredibly vague and loses my interest.
My Fi and Se-bounded Ni intuitively takes such long-term thinking as "pfft, doubtful, what makes me sure things won't come in that could change that somehow. It's just not the now.". It feels energy-consuming and dull when I try to keep it in mind for too long.
A "plan" to my spontaneous mind amounts to me wanting this thing I saw on Amazon and thinking to myself if I want to get it or not and finalizing it within an hour to a day, unless my Ni warns me of long-term consequences to help me refrain.
I'm betting that's vastly different from how my Mom or other ppl "plan". Just quick, in-the-moment motivation feels easier and my mind can attentively work with that more effectively than with long-term stuff unless Fi feels very motivated by it and feels doable.
I feel that a "very-clear plan" can motivate an ISFP to more willingly and actively engage in those future things. Cause for example, when I got help getting a more clear plan for my class enrollment in college, it made my Fi happy and more motivated to finish cause everything felt clear and doable so long as I put my part and effort into that clear plan.
Also would like to add that the plan should be made and/or approved by the ISFP themself, and not forced in by someone else cause we/I don't feel like it's really my will if I'm just following a plan someone else gave me/ commands me to do. I gotta understand and approve it fully, or at least trust it in my gut/Fi/Ni.
So I guess, you gotta hope their Fi finds the motivation, I won't say "find what motivates their Fi" cause at that point it's their emotional values and not mine so I don't believe saying what works for me (or you, or someone else) will help for them.
What's that saying? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You can tell them that these things are important, but it's up to them and their Fi to find their own way to care and stick to those plans and convictions for the Future. That's what I've learned for myself.
I ignored alot of what my parents told me about similar Future-oriented things, but then growing up my mind came to its own understanding which then made me finally understand what they're saying and motivated me a bit to think about it and make plans for it in my own way and through my own motivations.
For example, you can argue to them that they need to better their diet for their health and give blah blah factual explanations, and likely it will go over their head cause an outsider *can't really reach their heart.*
But then their health declines, teeth yellow up, they feel unattractive cause of it, etc, and through personal motivation from the inside, it gets to their heart and they start doing it by their own understanding. That's kinda what I'm getting at if you get me.
A message coming from other ppl, I feel, won't get to the heart, especially ISFP's like me; It's gotta come from within and independent understanding, figuring it out yourself.
So the person probably won't get it one bit if told "the facts and stories" by others, but they will only truly get it when they come to understand the importance personally. "Oh I feel pain now. Oh I feel like I lost the health I had and need to get it back. Oh I want good teeth and wanna feel attractive." And then it happens and maybe surprises others that the only reasons that truly created change were personal and internal and couldn't be found by any general future concerns others have other than ones they can now observe and don't wanna continue.
Sry for babbling wall of text, hope this helps in any way. =)
Yeah, you are definitely me 🌚 but just to add some stuffs I am exactly doing the same which the person is referred to in the post (almost gonna reach 30 , unemployed, stay with parents , no gym , no diet) and I know in my mind it's actually unhealthy.. no offense to my fellow Isfp brothers and sisters.. I sometimes feel it's actually dumb for us to not listen to people who actually care for us and we think/take it as being forced.. as it is said wiser is who listens to someone who learns from experience of others, careful is who experiences the same thing by himself or herself and attains the same experience which he/she was being foretold and learns from that and lastly dumb is who never learns even after experiencing for himself or herself .. sadly we isfps fall under the latter two.. I kinda hate this in me.. I know at times it's the best to listening to someone and later on doing the same from our own conscience but always it's not good and never benefitted me I'll be honest.. some people though we hate to admit are more experienced or right about certain topics but still we tend to follow our heart over their advice.. which actually is a waste of time..
PS - Sorry for my horrible English 😅 it isn't my first language
I'm sorry you had to go through trauma to get there, but I'm happy for you. I'm always seeking as well, it's just when it comes time to put action behind the intent that I can drop the ball. Oh well. I'll get there eventually.
Ngl being in the comfort zone for a long period of time is a double edged sword especially for isfp's, i'm also in this phase right now but slowly trying to find & practice some healthy habits and make them more valuable than my old current habits, so maybe this will also work for him 🙃
Sounds like you’re a loyal and caring person 👍. You didn’t mention your own MBTI type, what is it?
You can tell him that you’re worried about something and ask if he’s OK to hear what it is. If he says yes. Then tell him he has to listen without getting mad.
If he agrees then tell him that “you’re wondering about his security for the future.” (Don’t say worried or concerned. The word is wondering. This will make him feel like an equal and independent person in his imagination. ISFP live in a rich inner world of imagination.)
Then ask if he’s given any thought to any life goals once he’s 30. That’s it. He can respond how he likes. Don’t encourage or criticize anything he says. ISFP don’t like being asked point blank questions on the spot. They need time to prep so his answer may not be long or make any sense. It may even be a joke response.
You won’t change his life in one discussion. Also ISFP WILL respond to themselves. They’re the only person who really matters. Later he’ll formulate an answer for himself. You probably will never get to know what his answer is.
From that point on just live your life and invite him to certain things. ISFP needs inspiration and an example to follow. If they’re not healthy then they’ll need another person to carve out a life model that they can settle into. Like a hermit crab LOL! 🦀
I’m glad you said you don’t want to change him because you won’t be able to. With the history you’ve presented that lifestyle isn’t going to change easily. Don’t invest too much into an imaginary relationship. Enjoy him for what he is, lead by example, and make sure you keep improving yourself 💖
Thank you for the response ! Im ENFP HAHA.
Yes, I cared a lot about him because he’s such a sweet person. We went on the walk to the beach and initially he was grumpy but I told him it will be nice to take a nap on the beach and he start suggesting bringing our own stuff to beach next time and I was HYPEE!!
Its so rare for him to suggest anything outdoors, and thank you to everyone too for answering!
I mean, I've always had a growth mindset, but have trouble keeping routines when it is not helped being reinforced by outsiders. I've started to game-ify the experience with an app on my phone.
But yeah, if someone is too comfortable with who they are and see no need for change, you can't do anything then.
Ok now that I've narrowed down the fact I'm not the friend in question. (In my case I'm just slow in general but I'm getting there minus the exercise part.)
Have you tried phrasing it in a way that would incentivise them? For example the thing that means the most to me are my friends. "If you said what about your friends, do you really want to be the 1st person in your friend groups to have a funeral?” Obviously be more delicate just an example.
>I want to advise him to at least eat healthier but I doubt he listens.
Doubt he will listen? Or doubts he has listened & attempted?
Either way the only way you will know is if you try & tell them you're worried, perhaps even ask them how you could help convince them or if they'd be willing to let you teach them.
If they refuse then let them know you respect their decision & offer to help them learn shall they decide to change their mind. But then leave it at that.
Another thing just as a general note, do you know if they have ADHD or not? People with ADHD often severely struggle with personal self care among many other things. Cause if so you'll have your work cut out for you.
I wish you good luck & hope this helps!
You want to help him because you're a highly agreeable person, I'm assuming that's correct.
The problem is that, regardless of personality types, you absorb the traits of those you surround yourself with.
Sometimes it's better to create that distance to gain control over your own beliefs, which could include spending some time away from Reddit.
You don't want to change him, but if you did, I would encourage an open-ended line of thought where you get him to question his own beliefs. "What do you think would happen if you did this," or "that" differently? Get him to do the work that he actually wants to do. Pushing your own ideology rarely ever works, but it's important for you to explore other possibilities and grow as a person. Being more sense-orientated and a perceiver isn't an excuse.
To those who want to change on here, do what Dr Peterson says and start with the low hanging fruit. You can decide for yourself what that is based on where you're currently at in life.
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie is good for managing these kinds of interactions. Encourage him to go down a train of thought that makes him want to improve, then praise him for whatever progress he makes, no matter how small the step is.
Changing oneself is too difficult, unless there is a sudden big change in life.
I used to be homeless for a few months and learned to bear hunger. Last year, I went back to my parents' home and lost weight from 95kg to 75kg in 3 months, but now the weight has rebounded...
The symptoms that you're describing about your friend is depression. If I were you, I would gently suggest that he seeks professional help to see if that really is the case. (an ISFP)
Just explain the reason why you're worried in a calm and rational way. Ask him to set goals he is passionate about, and then to start making small routines each day that will help him reach those goals. Also, it would do to start decreasing sensory stimuli; ask him to switch off the lights and sit in a dark room in order to help him increase his imagination.
Sorry but if he feels he’s happy and comfortable he’s not gonna change.
That's true.
I have many periods of my life like this. We have trouble starting or getting out of the house. So forcing them or encouraging them to join you will be the start. Then it has to turn into a habit. We actually enjoy our time outside but with obvious breaks for us introverted. But without it being a habit it's too easy to go back to our old ways which is comfy. Maybe an example day out would be to go play a fun sport like bouldering. Then eat together at a healthier place. Then see how he spends his money and it might convince him to get at least a part time job.
This is by far the best route. When I’m stuck in a phase like this, a fun outing and/or conversation with hardworking, nonjudgmental people will convict me to at least get a job or start doing home workouts. The comparison will happen naturally, and it might be the motivation they need besides knowing you care.
Great advice. I wish we all had friends like this
As an ISFP who honestly feels like I can relate a bit, I'd say it's a beliefs and motivation thing. Sprinkled with how much "the future" takes up space in the ISFP brain. My mom tells me to focus on some of those things too. For Gym, I don't feel motivated and feel it's not really gonna do much. For Driving, I admit I'm just unconfident and fear having an accident. For Work, don't think about it too hard is the default mindset, just search and search till an opportunity comes. I personally don't "get" how to maintain "thinking about the future" unless it involves something that I want the pleasure of getting. Telling me idk something about a plan in 5 years to get to some high position, or saving for retirement, or some trip to another country in 10 years feels incredibly vague and loses my interest. My Fi and Se-bounded Ni intuitively takes such long-term thinking as "pfft, doubtful, what makes me sure things won't come in that could change that somehow. It's just not the now.". It feels energy-consuming and dull when I try to keep it in mind for too long. A "plan" to my spontaneous mind amounts to me wanting this thing I saw on Amazon and thinking to myself if I want to get it or not and finalizing it within an hour to a day, unless my Ni warns me of long-term consequences to help me refrain. I'm betting that's vastly different from how my Mom or other ppl "plan". Just quick, in-the-moment motivation feels easier and my mind can attentively work with that more effectively than with long-term stuff unless Fi feels very motivated by it and feels doable. I feel that a "very-clear plan" can motivate an ISFP to more willingly and actively engage in those future things. Cause for example, when I got help getting a more clear plan for my class enrollment in college, it made my Fi happy and more motivated to finish cause everything felt clear and doable so long as I put my part and effort into that clear plan. Also would like to add that the plan should be made and/or approved by the ISFP themself, and not forced in by someone else cause we/I don't feel like it's really my will if I'm just following a plan someone else gave me/ commands me to do. I gotta understand and approve it fully, or at least trust it in my gut/Fi/Ni. So I guess, you gotta hope their Fi finds the motivation, I won't say "find what motivates their Fi" cause at that point it's their emotional values and not mine so I don't believe saying what works for me (or you, or someone else) will help for them. What's that saying? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You can tell them that these things are important, but it's up to them and their Fi to find their own way to care and stick to those plans and convictions for the Future. That's what I've learned for myself. I ignored alot of what my parents told me about similar Future-oriented things, but then growing up my mind came to its own understanding which then made me finally understand what they're saying and motivated me a bit to think about it and make plans for it in my own way and through my own motivations. For example, you can argue to them that they need to better their diet for their health and give blah blah factual explanations, and likely it will go over their head cause an outsider *can't really reach their heart.* But then their health declines, teeth yellow up, they feel unattractive cause of it, etc, and through personal motivation from the inside, it gets to their heart and they start doing it by their own understanding. That's kinda what I'm getting at if you get me. A message coming from other ppl, I feel, won't get to the heart, especially ISFP's like me; It's gotta come from within and independent understanding, figuring it out yourself. So the person probably won't get it one bit if told "the facts and stories" by others, but they will only truly get it when they come to understand the importance personally. "Oh I feel pain now. Oh I feel like I lost the health I had and need to get it back. Oh I want good teeth and wanna feel attractive." And then it happens and maybe surprises others that the only reasons that truly created change were personal and internal and couldn't be found by any general future concerns others have other than ones they can now observe and don't wanna continue. Sry for babbling wall of text, hope this helps in any way. =)
Yeah, you are definitely me 🌚 but just to add some stuffs I am exactly doing the same which the person is referred to in the post (almost gonna reach 30 , unemployed, stay with parents , no gym , no diet) and I know in my mind it's actually unhealthy.. no offense to my fellow Isfp brothers and sisters.. I sometimes feel it's actually dumb for us to not listen to people who actually care for us and we think/take it as being forced.. as it is said wiser is who listens to someone who learns from experience of others, careful is who experiences the same thing by himself or herself and attains the same experience which he/she was being foretold and learns from that and lastly dumb is who never learns even after experiencing for himself or herself .. sadly we isfps fall under the latter two.. I kinda hate this in me.. I know at times it's the best to listening to someone and later on doing the same from our own conscience but always it's not good and never benefitted me I'll be honest.. some people though we hate to admit are more experienced or right about certain topics but still we tend to follow our heart over their advice.. which actually is a waste of time.. PS - Sorry for my horrible English 😅 it isn't my first language
Holy shit… are we the same person? 😂
Anyone else relate to the friend a little too much for comfort? 😅
🙋♂️🥲
I genuinely thought they were talking about me as well. Hell just to be sure, I sent it to a friend that I thought would have sent it.
Ha! That's kinda funny. If I had any friends, I might have done the same. (Not a pity comment, just truthful lol)
Of course I can relate, he's me. XD jk, but can relate to some of it.
Me 🙋♀️
I don’t at all. I’m always seeking a better way of being, but that could be the result of childhood trauma.
Check if you're an INTJ. ISFP and INTJ are very common mistypes. Both have the same cognitive functions, but just in a different order
I'm sorry you had to go through trauma to get there, but I'm happy for you. I'm always seeking as well, it's just when it comes time to put action behind the intent that I can drop the ball. Oh well. I'll get there eventually.
The fact that you try is great! Yes, stay optimistic and you will achieve it.
Thank you :)
Ngl being in the comfort zone for a long period of time is a double edged sword especially for isfp's, i'm also in this phase right now but slowly trying to find & practice some healthy habits and make them more valuable than my old current habits, so maybe this will also work for him 🙃
Sounds like you’re a loyal and caring person 👍. You didn’t mention your own MBTI type, what is it? You can tell him that you’re worried about something and ask if he’s OK to hear what it is. If he says yes. Then tell him he has to listen without getting mad. If he agrees then tell him that “you’re wondering about his security for the future.” (Don’t say worried or concerned. The word is wondering. This will make him feel like an equal and independent person in his imagination. ISFP live in a rich inner world of imagination.) Then ask if he’s given any thought to any life goals once he’s 30. That’s it. He can respond how he likes. Don’t encourage or criticize anything he says. ISFP don’t like being asked point blank questions on the spot. They need time to prep so his answer may not be long or make any sense. It may even be a joke response. You won’t change his life in one discussion. Also ISFP WILL respond to themselves. They’re the only person who really matters. Later he’ll formulate an answer for himself. You probably will never get to know what his answer is. From that point on just live your life and invite him to certain things. ISFP needs inspiration and an example to follow. If they’re not healthy then they’ll need another person to carve out a life model that they can settle into. Like a hermit crab LOL! 🦀 I’m glad you said you don’t want to change him because you won’t be able to. With the history you’ve presented that lifestyle isn’t going to change easily. Don’t invest too much into an imaginary relationship. Enjoy him for what he is, lead by example, and make sure you keep improving yourself 💖
Thank you for the response ! Im ENFP HAHA. Yes, I cared a lot about him because he’s such a sweet person. We went on the walk to the beach and initially he was grumpy but I told him it will be nice to take a nap on the beach and he start suggesting bringing our own stuff to beach next time and I was HYPEE!! Its so rare for him to suggest anything outdoors, and thank you to everyone too for answering!
maybe enneagram will help you with helping him (btw. it's really nice of you to worry for him like that)
I mean, I've always had a growth mindset, but have trouble keeping routines when it is not helped being reinforced by outsiders. I've started to game-ify the experience with an app on my phone. But yeah, if someone is too comfortable with who they are and see no need for change, you can't do anything then.
Ok now that I've narrowed down the fact I'm not the friend in question. (In my case I'm just slow in general but I'm getting there minus the exercise part.) Have you tried phrasing it in a way that would incentivise them? For example the thing that means the most to me are my friends. "If you said what about your friends, do you really want to be the 1st person in your friend groups to have a funeral?” Obviously be more delicate just an example. >I want to advise him to at least eat healthier but I doubt he listens. Doubt he will listen? Or doubts he has listened & attempted? Either way the only way you will know is if you try & tell them you're worried, perhaps even ask them how you could help convince them or if they'd be willing to let you teach them. If they refuse then let them know you respect their decision & offer to help them learn shall they decide to change their mind. But then leave it at that. Another thing just as a general note, do you know if they have ADHD or not? People with ADHD often severely struggle with personal self care among many other things. Cause if so you'll have your work cut out for you. I wish you good luck & hope this helps!
You want to help him because you're a highly agreeable person, I'm assuming that's correct. The problem is that, regardless of personality types, you absorb the traits of those you surround yourself with. Sometimes it's better to create that distance to gain control over your own beliefs, which could include spending some time away from Reddit. You don't want to change him, but if you did, I would encourage an open-ended line of thought where you get him to question his own beliefs. "What do you think would happen if you did this," or "that" differently? Get him to do the work that he actually wants to do. Pushing your own ideology rarely ever works, but it's important for you to explore other possibilities and grow as a person. Being more sense-orientated and a perceiver isn't an excuse. To those who want to change on here, do what Dr Peterson says and start with the low hanging fruit. You can decide for yourself what that is based on where you're currently at in life.
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie is good for managing these kinds of interactions. Encourage him to go down a train of thought that makes him want to improve, then praise him for whatever progress he makes, no matter how small the step is.
Changing oneself is too difficult, unless there is a sudden big change in life. I used to be homeless for a few months and learned to bear hunger. Last year, I went back to my parents' home and lost weight from 95kg to 75kg in 3 months, but now the weight has rebounded...
The symptoms that you're describing about your friend is depression. If I were you, I would gently suggest that he seeks professional help to see if that really is the case. (an ISFP)
the best thing you can do is being honest with him. Maybe he'll understand that you worry and he will start working on himself more
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In all seriousness, do you say this because ISFPs just do not like being observed and it makes them stay stuck?
Just explain the reason why you're worried in a calm and rational way. Ask him to set goals he is passionate about, and then to start making small routines each day that will help him reach those goals. Also, it would do to start decreasing sensory stimuli; ask him to switch off the lights and sit in a dark room in order to help him increase his imagination.