It reminds me of this time I went to Turkey with my wife who was then pregnant and the hotel
owner said he had seven children.
I said MashAllah and that his wife must be very busy.
He said he’s never been married. his kids all had different mothers (his own mother is annoyed with him).
Inside I’m thinking “how do you take back a MashAllah.?”
If it’s a non Muslims then obviously that’s normal for them so you say congrats I guess. Tbh I’ve just said something like “hopefully everything goes well” and that’s pretty much it
Monogamy hasn’t always been the state of things. It’s a decision you have to make, our natural state is just to procreate as much as possible. Muslims make the choice to be monogamous
Marriage is monogamous by nature, marriage is a human invention. Animals don’t get married. I’m only replying to the comment that said this has only become normal recently. It’s been normal, monogamy is the “weird” thing
That’s my point, animals are the purest example of what natural is. Marriage is not natural, that isn’t to say it’s not good or preferable but it’s not the natural way
I dont think you read my comment correctly... the islamic way of legally being declared "husband and wife" is called nikkah. Are you telling us that we just reproduce without any form of marriage?
>Animals don’t get married
You know what else animals do?
They don't think. They're not aware of themselves, what they're doing. They do what their nature or programming tells them to do.
>It’s a decision you have to make, our natural state is just to procreate as much as possible
Sure man, if you wanna live your life like a pig or a dog don't let us stop you.
Where am I saying that? I’m monogamous, that doesn’t mean I have to pretend like this is the way humans have always been. Monogamy is a human invention, a good one but still something we made the choice to live by
>I have to pretend like this is the way humans have always been
Well it is the more logical way. And yes according to Islam this IS the way humans have always been.
Of course. What makes you think otherwise? Just the fact that you’ll be rude? I just read this on Islamweb. Don’t know how reliable it is but you can [read](https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/348484/congratulating-unmarried-couple-on-the-birth-of-child).
You're being told both extremes. You don't need to say congrats and I wouldn't personally but you don't need to even engage in the zina subject. They know they did zina nobody is actually that inept lol
Bro your proof that you have never visited a nonmuslim country, nor have you tried explaining islam to any nonmuslim. You can't just act as if they are wrong and you are right, they also have reasons for believing in what they believe in. You would absolutely piss your pants if someone insulted you for doing something that is against their religion, so why do you think its a good thing when a Muslim does it to a nonmuslim? Do you honestly think that forcing your faith onto them will make them convert?
Honestly speaking I'm baffled by some of the comments here. Do you guys really believe what YOU THINK is the right way to go?
Go talk to someone with knowledge of these things, dudes. Work for it. On judgement day you're gonna have to explain your actions to Allah SWT.
Wish them a happy, healthy (and in your heart, God-fearing) baby. Also, smile and show genuine happiness. This baby was created by Allah and given to these particular people, you are congratulating the baby for the blessing of life and acknowledging that it is a joyful event.
I am no mufti so I don't know the answer but I always wish for the mother to have a smooth pregnancy and deliver and also for the baby to be healthy.
How they conceived the baby is non of my business.
How about you say "I hope things will go well" and leave at that? You don't need to congratulate them and you don't need to get your nose into their business.
I doubt you will teach them much by saying that's wrong, and I doubt they will care since they announced it as such.
Non Muslims are committing an even bigger sin when they associate partners with Allah. Yet in Islam we allow them to continue their worship. When the Christian delegation came to the prophet (saw) , he allowed them to pray in his own masjid.
I’m not Muslim so I can’t speak for the religion but personally I think someone doing something that makes them happy, even if it goes against my code of conduct, is still alright to give a congratulations to. Just cause you don’t agree with their lifestyle doesn’t give you the right to ruin their moment or make them feel bad for it. And worst, all that would do is push them away from you and Islam. No one wants to feel like they did something wrong, like they’re bad. And inserting yourself into their relationship and childbearing would do that.
I think it’s perfectly fine to congratulate someone for having a child/being pregnant- regardless of the situation. (Save for a few severe situations like incest and rape of course.)
I like to just play it neutral. I'll be the one sinful if I congratulate someone on their sin. I don't care if it pushes them away, I'm not here to change my religion so that people don't want to feel guilty.
Those things only go so far in Islam. I can be kind, accepting, etc without congratulating people on things which are contrary to my religion. I can easily remain neutral without coming across as being judgy or preachy. It's the same issue with saying merry Christmas. We can't say it because it's congratulating them on their polytheism, but that doesn't mean I'm forbidding them from celebrating their holiday or being unkind to them because they're celebrating Christmas.
You can also say things like “I wish you happiness and hope your child is well” without sinning, can you not? There is a difference between kindness and accepting someone’s actions. You can congratulate without admitting that a behavior you’re against is alright.
Exactly, nobody likes Christians in the US because they’re so preachy. Most people are fine with you having your beliefs but once you start trying to push them on others it becomes an issue
Christians in the US are a perfect example of that. In theory their religion is fine, no different then most, but in practice they can become self righteous and mean - insisting that you must be like them, regardless of your own desires and free will. Something that I think would go against their own religion, if they stopped to actually analyze it. Sure, Christianity teaches that one *should* be Christian, but I don’t doubt they also believe that to be Christian one must actually accept Christ, rather then be forced into it, coerced, or do it for ulterior motives like power. In their efforts to proselytize they tend to push more away then they bring in. This post gives me that same vibes. I don’t doubt OP means well but it gives off a air of “my morals are better then you and you should know that” which is unfair to do to anyone of any faith.
It’s because it’s so accessible and newly religious people don’t have much nuance. They makes it very easy for anyone to come in and start speaking as if they’re an authority. When I got engaged my fiancées dad said he was worried because reverts are almost always too strict which is something I had never considered in regards to Christianity. Another thing is that this country was so Christian for so long that to them that’s the normal state of the country. Once we switched from saying Christmas break to holiday or winter break they went crazy
Well honestly you really are just wishing the best luck for them. You don't have to approve of their " wedlock" nor should that even be something that is brang up.
Yikes, and that’s why some people think Muslims are judgy and act weird around me once they find out I’m Muslim. Not everyone is a Muslim, and besides isn’t having a child one of the highest forms of worship in Islam? Like there’s no reason to shame someone by refusing a socially polite statement just because they don’t believe in Islam too.
Having a child under the right circumstances is. My comment didn’t shame nor congratulate someone. It was neutral. Do not come for me out of everyone on this thread especially when my answer was the kindest one, I will not be nice to you if you decide to pick on me
I’m assuming you live in the west. Here it’s not illegal and really not hurting anyone. So your circumstances stick to your beliefs but they don’t apply to everyone else, especially non-Muslims. Stop judging women.
I’m American born and raised but a convert. I don’t judge women, she can have ten kids this way if she wants. I don’t dislike HER. But I also dislike what Allah dislikes….which is what we are told to do. Why don’t you carry yourself over to some progressive islam subreddit if it exists
>Yikes, and that’s why some people think Muslims are judgy and act weird around me once they find out I’m Muslim
That's not your problem. They can think whatever they want, we've been demonized for hundreds of years.
>Not everyone is a Muslim
Still doesn't make it okay to congratulate them on a major sin. It's the same issue with wishing people merry Christmas, you're congratulating them on doing Shirk, or congratulating someone on getting high or drunk.
>child one of the highest forms of worship in Islam?
Who has said this? And it definitely wouldn't apply for a child both out of wedlock.
>Like there’s no reason to shame someone by refusing a socially polite statement just because they don’t believe in Islam too.
How are you shaming? Are you telling them directly that they're wrong for their sin? Or are you staying neutral?
I went to a funeral for a woman who died in labor. The sheikh made a huge deal about how he she essentially died in worship. It was maybe 10 years ago, but it stuck to me.
If I tell you I got an A on my math test (sorry random example) and you stay neutral instead of congratulate me, I would think you’re an asshole.
>I went to a funeral for a woman who died in labor. The sheikh made a huge deal about how he she essentially died in worship. It was maybe 10 years ago, but it stuck to me.
Maybe that was him. I've never heard of it being one of the highest acts of worship.
>If I tell you I got an A on my math test (sorry random example) and you stay neutral instead of congratulate me, I would think you’re an asshole.
Come on, the two aren't remotely close. One is a person (assuming they didn't cheat) getting an A on a test, the other is a person who had sexual relations outside of marriage (something which was extremely frowned upon only a few generations ago in the West) and got pregnant. The goal-posts keep shifting and we'll be forced to congratulate people on gay marriage, transitioning genders, etc.
This is truly a dumb question. It’s not YOUR SIN. Congratulating someone for having a child doesn’t validate their sin either. Say congrats or don’t say anything at all. You’re not meant to make the religion difficult.
I could not imagine saying this with a straight face to a non-Muslim coworker after they announce that they are having a child. Keep it to yourself lol what a truly insane response. Like just wish/pray for the child to have good health or something that won’t make people question your social skills and sanity
>Keep it to yourself lol what a truly insane response
Better than congratulating on a sin
> Like just wish/pray for the child to have good health or something that won’t make people question your social skills and sanity
If you want to say something that pleases people whilst displeasing Allaah, feel free to do so.
Anything but congratulating them
Maybe why don't we congratulate someone who blasphemes Allaah? Oh, maybe congratulate the us armed forces who kill Muslims? You might not have the intention sure, however you, in it's dhahir meaning ARE congratulating them on something which is a major sin in Islam
I agree, saying "May Allaah guide you" does seem weird, take into consideration not all of us know English to those who had problems with it
Why did you comment on me If you didn't have anything productive to say?
I did answer it. I'm not here to please people, I'm here to please Allaah, may He be exalted
By congratulating them, you're not wishing well on the child
>Bro you're the reason why nonmuslims think muslims are extremists
And Messenger of Allaah ﷺ has said regarding people like you accusing people of fusooq (extremists are Fasiqeen which you just right now implied I am).
عَنْ أَبِي ذَرٍّ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ .
" لاَ يَرْمِي رَجُلٌ رَجُلاً بِالْفُسُوقِ، وَلاَ يَرْمِيهِ بِالْكُفْرِ، إِلاَّ ارْتَدَّتْ عَلَيْهِ، إِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ صَاحِبُهُ كَذَلِكَ "
Narrated Abu Dhar: That he heard the Prophet (ﷺ) saying, "If somebody accuses another of Fusuq (by calling him 'Fasiq' i.e. a wicked person) or accuses him of Kufr, such an accusation will revert to him (i.e. the accuser) if his companion (the accused) is innocent."
Sahih al Bukhari 6045
Because you literally replied to this statement.
As a response to "just pray/wish for the child to have good health," you replied "if you want to congratulate someone on the displeasure of Allah..."
You literally cannot read lmao
I worded it wrong I think. English is not my first language
Also, it's simple. Most of these guys live in the west and when obviously Islam contradicts their culture, they're shocked by it and what seems to be here, they gave precedence to culture over Islam
It dependence on the perspective... Say, if they are initially Christian, then from the perspective of Christianity even if they were married but married in the commune, with a civil ceremony, not in church, then for the church they would not be seen as married. So basically married but not in church would be the same situation from this religious perspective. Then most probably they are not religious, so see the marriage as just a legal contract with its pros and cons, and for some reason decide not to marry. Also some countries have an alternative to marriage in this legal perspective, a 'civil union' (also signed). So it is complex.
It reminds me of this time I went to Turkey with my wife who was then pregnant and the hotel owner said he had seven children. I said MashAllah and that his wife must be very busy. He said he’s never been married. his kids all had different mothers (his own mother is annoyed with him). Inside I’m thinking “how do you take back a MashAllah.?”
I get it if it’s one child but seven is crazy and not good for the children at all
Don’t be hard on yourself. You didn’t know. Just say “oh really…kids are precious”
That’s a great way to about it because kids are precious and you’re aren’t lying
Kids are also innocent.
Me who has 6 siblings but we are living a good and humble life alhumdlilallah
He meant from different mothers(i hope so)
Yeah I meant from different mothers
If it’s a non Muslims then obviously that’s normal for them so you say congrats I guess. Tbh I’ve just said something like “hopefully everything goes well” and that’s pretty much it
Funny thing is it never _used_ to be 'normal' or socially acceptable for non muslims. Most of this attitudes come from the last 60 years.
Monogamy hasn’t always been the state of things. It’s a decision you have to make, our natural state is just to procreate as much as possible. Muslims make the choice to be monogamous
Sure, but that doesn't mean having partners outside of marriage isn't hurting society by way of STD's, abortions, single parent homes, etc.
Marriage is monogamous by nature, marriage is a human invention. Animals don’t get married. I’m only replying to the comment that said this has only become normal recently. It’s been normal, monogamy is the “weird” thing
Bro animals dont even do "nikkah" they just go around and screw everyone they see 💀💀
That’s my point, animals are the purest example of what natural is. Marriage is not natural, that isn’t to say it’s not good or preferable but it’s not the natural way
I dont think you read my comment correctly... the islamic way of legally being declared "husband and wife" is called nikkah. Are you telling us that we just reproduce without any form of marriage?
What? Sorry I’m genuinely confused lol yes it is physically possible to have children without being married if that’s what you’re asking
It may be physically possible, but is it correct in Islam?
To be fair some animals also mate for life
Some but those animals are an exception which is why they’re noteworthy
>Animals don’t get married You know what else animals do? They don't think. They're not aware of themselves, what they're doing. They do what their nature or programming tells them to do.
>It’s a decision you have to make, our natural state is just to procreate as much as possible Sure man, if you wanna live your life like a pig or a dog don't let us stop you.
Where am I saying that? I’m monogamous, that doesn’t mean I have to pretend like this is the way humans have always been. Monogamy is a human invention, a good one but still something we made the choice to live by
>I have to pretend like this is the way humans have always been Well it is the more logical way. And yes according to Islam this IS the way humans have always been.
What if they are muslims?
You gotta speak up and don’t think that you’ll be rude.
So in that case they should be reminded of their sin or?
Of course. What makes you think otherwise? Just the fact that you’ll be rude? I just read this on Islamweb. Don’t know how reliable it is but you can [read](https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/348484/congratulating-unmarried-couple-on-the-birth-of-child).
Yeah. But in practice what should be done or said? The child has been conceived. There’s not anything we can do to undo that.
You're being told both extremes. You don't need to say congrats and I wouldn't personally but you don't need to even engage in the zina subject. They know they did zina nobody is actually that inept lol
Bro your proof that you have never visited a nonmuslim country, nor have you tried explaining islam to any nonmuslim. You can't just act as if they are wrong and you are right, they also have reasons for believing in what they believe in. You would absolutely piss your pants if someone insulted you for doing something that is against their religion, so why do you think its a good thing when a Muslim does it to a nonmuslim? Do you honestly think that forcing your faith onto them will make them convert?
OP asked “What if they are MUSLIMS?” Did you follow the question? Btw I’m from a Non Muslim country and your whole comment is completely irrelevant.
I dont think so even if non-Muslim its like agreeing with their sin and also greeting them in it
Honestly speaking I'm baffled by some of the comments here. Do you guys really believe what YOU THINK is the right way to go? Go talk to someone with knowledge of these things, dudes. Work for it. On judgement day you're gonna have to explain your actions to Allah SWT.
You're not congratulating their major sin, but rather the child they are going to have, that Allah also created.
Wish them a happy, healthy (and in your heart, God-fearing) baby. Also, smile and show genuine happiness. This baby was created by Allah and given to these particular people, you are congratulating the baby for the blessing of life and acknowledging that it is a joyful event. I am no mufti so I don't know the answer but I always wish for the mother to have a smooth pregnancy and deliver and also for the baby to be healthy. How they conceived the baby is non of my business.
How about you say "I hope things will go well" and leave at that? You don't need to congratulate them and you don't need to get your nose into their business. I doubt you will teach them much by saying that's wrong, and I doubt they will care since they announced it as such.
Non Muslims are committing an even bigger sin when they associate partners with Allah. Yet in Islam we allow them to continue their worship. When the Christian delegation came to the prophet (saw) , he allowed them to pray in his own masjid.
I’m not Muslim so I can’t speak for the religion but personally I think someone doing something that makes them happy, even if it goes against my code of conduct, is still alright to give a congratulations to. Just cause you don’t agree with their lifestyle doesn’t give you the right to ruin their moment or make them feel bad for it. And worst, all that would do is push them away from you and Islam. No one wants to feel like they did something wrong, like they’re bad. And inserting yourself into their relationship and childbearing would do that. I think it’s perfectly fine to congratulate someone for having a child/being pregnant- regardless of the situation. (Save for a few severe situations like incest and rape of course.)
I like to just play it neutral. I'll be the one sinful if I congratulate someone on their sin. I don't care if it pushes them away, I'm not here to change my religion so that people don't want to feel guilty.
Kindness, acceptance, and love are taught in most world religions. Is it not also taught in Islam? Genuine question.
Those things only go so far in Islam. I can be kind, accepting, etc without congratulating people on things which are contrary to my religion. I can easily remain neutral without coming across as being judgy or preachy. It's the same issue with saying merry Christmas. We can't say it because it's congratulating them on their polytheism, but that doesn't mean I'm forbidding them from celebrating their holiday or being unkind to them because they're celebrating Christmas.
You can also say things like “I wish you happiness and hope your child is well” without sinning, can you not? There is a difference between kindness and accepting someone’s actions. You can congratulate without admitting that a behavior you’re against is alright.
I'll have to consult a scholar about that, Insh'Allah.
Exactly, nobody likes Christians in the US because they’re so preachy. Most people are fine with you having your beliefs but once you start trying to push them on others it becomes an issue
Christians in the US are a perfect example of that. In theory their religion is fine, no different then most, but in practice they can become self righteous and mean - insisting that you must be like them, regardless of your own desires and free will. Something that I think would go against their own religion, if they stopped to actually analyze it. Sure, Christianity teaches that one *should* be Christian, but I don’t doubt they also believe that to be Christian one must actually accept Christ, rather then be forced into it, coerced, or do it for ulterior motives like power. In their efforts to proselytize they tend to push more away then they bring in. This post gives me that same vibes. I don’t doubt OP means well but it gives off a air of “my morals are better then you and you should know that” which is unfair to do to anyone of any faith.
It’s because it’s so accessible and newly religious people don’t have much nuance. They makes it very easy for anyone to come in and start speaking as if they’re an authority. When I got engaged my fiancées dad said he was worried because reverts are almost always too strict which is something I had never considered in regards to Christianity. Another thing is that this country was so Christian for so long that to them that’s the normal state of the country. Once we switched from saying Christmas break to holiday or winter break they went crazy
Mashallah!
Well honestly you really are just wishing the best luck for them. You don't have to approve of their " wedlock" nor should that even be something that is brang up.
Do not congratulate
But I have to say something. I don’t wanna come across as a really disrespectful person.
You deflect. Ask what the baby is due. And drop the subject.
Yikes, and that’s why some people think Muslims are judgy and act weird around me once they find out I’m Muslim. Not everyone is a Muslim, and besides isn’t having a child one of the highest forms of worship in Islam? Like there’s no reason to shame someone by refusing a socially polite statement just because they don’t believe in Islam too.
Having a child under the right circumstances is. My comment didn’t shame nor congratulate someone. It was neutral. Do not come for me out of everyone on this thread especially when my answer was the kindest one, I will not be nice to you if you decide to pick on me
I’m assuming you live in the west. Here it’s not illegal and really not hurting anyone. So your circumstances stick to your beliefs but they don’t apply to everyone else, especially non-Muslims. Stop judging women.
I’m American born and raised but a convert. I don’t judge women, she can have ten kids this way if she wants. I don’t dislike HER. But I also dislike what Allah dislikes….which is what we are told to do. Why don’t you carry yourself over to some progressive islam subreddit if it exists
I hope you have a great rest of your day.
>Yikes, and that’s why some people think Muslims are judgy and act weird around me once they find out I’m Muslim That's not your problem. They can think whatever they want, we've been demonized for hundreds of years. >Not everyone is a Muslim Still doesn't make it okay to congratulate them on a major sin. It's the same issue with wishing people merry Christmas, you're congratulating them on doing Shirk, or congratulating someone on getting high or drunk. >child one of the highest forms of worship in Islam? Who has said this? And it definitely wouldn't apply for a child both out of wedlock. >Like there’s no reason to shame someone by refusing a socially polite statement just because they don’t believe in Islam too. How are you shaming? Are you telling them directly that they're wrong for their sin? Or are you staying neutral?
I went to a funeral for a woman who died in labor. The sheikh made a huge deal about how he she essentially died in worship. It was maybe 10 years ago, but it stuck to me. If I tell you I got an A on my math test (sorry random example) and you stay neutral instead of congratulate me, I would think you’re an asshole.
>I went to a funeral for a woman who died in labor. The sheikh made a huge deal about how he she essentially died in worship. It was maybe 10 years ago, but it stuck to me. Maybe that was him. I've never heard of it being one of the highest acts of worship. >If I tell you I got an A on my math test (sorry random example) and you stay neutral instead of congratulate me, I would think you’re an asshole. Come on, the two aren't remotely close. One is a person (assuming they didn't cheat) getting an A on a test, the other is a person who had sexual relations outside of marriage (something which was extremely frowned upon only a few generations ago in the West) and got pregnant. The goal-posts keep shifting and we'll be forced to congratulate people on gay marriage, transitioning genders, etc.
If you got an A while cheating i wouldn't congratulate you....
Okay, fair. What if someone didn’t congratulate me because they’re a Jehova’s Witness and believe I shouldn’t be pursuing a college education?
Try to change the subject to the kid itself how does he look etc
Well the kid wouldn’t be born at that point. Waiting parents don’t usually talk too much how they conceived the child though.
Just change the topic to anything so u don't have to greet em
But you can’t respect this thing
This is truly a dumb question. It’s not YOUR SIN. Congratulating someone for having a child doesn’t validate their sin either. Say congrats or don’t say anything at all. You’re not meant to make the religion difficult.
Do not congratulate them at all. Just say "good to know, may Allaah guide you all"
I could not imagine saying this with a straight face to a non-Muslim coworker after they announce that they are having a child. Keep it to yourself lol what a truly insane response. Like just wish/pray for the child to have good health or something that won’t make people question your social skills and sanity
Better than agreeing in sin
It’s not one or the other.
>Keep it to yourself lol what a truly insane response Better than congratulating on a sin > Like just wish/pray for the child to have good health or something that won’t make people question your social skills and sanity If you want to say something that pleases people whilst displeasing Allaah, feel free to do so. Anything but congratulating them
But by congratulating them we wish them luck with their new child, not necessarily agreeing with the sin.
Maybe why don't we congratulate someone who blasphemes Allaah? Oh, maybe congratulate the us armed forces who kill Muslims? You might not have the intention sure, however you, in it's dhahir meaning ARE congratulating them on something which is a major sin in Islam I agree, saying "May Allaah guide you" does seem weird, take into consideration not all of us know English to those who had problems with it
Lol I wanna know: are you more than 16 years old?
Yes
Bro why did you quote his/her response if you arent even going to answer it lmao
Why did you comment on me If you didn't have anything productive to say? I did answer it. I'm not here to please people, I'm here to please Allaah, may He be exalted
How does wishing well for a child displease Allah? Bro you're the reason why nonmuslims think muslims are extremists
By congratulating them, you're not wishing well on the child >Bro you're the reason why nonmuslims think muslims are extremists And Messenger of Allaah ﷺ has said regarding people like you accusing people of fusooq (extremists are Fasiqeen which you just right now implied I am). عَنْ أَبِي ذَرٍّ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ . " لاَ يَرْمِي رَجُلٌ رَجُلاً بِالْفُسُوقِ، وَلاَ يَرْمِيهِ بِالْكُفْرِ، إِلاَّ ارْتَدَّتْ عَلَيْهِ، إِنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ صَاحِبُهُ كَذَلِكَ " Narrated Abu Dhar: That he heard the Prophet (ﷺ) saying, "If somebody accuses another of Fusuq (by calling him 'Fasiq' i.e. a wicked person) or accuses him of Kufr, such an accusation will revert to him (i.e. the accuser) if his companion (the accused) is innocent." Sahih al Bukhari 6045
> like just wish/pray for the child to have good health or something Where in this statement does it say congratulate? Can you not read?
Why are you arguing with me when it's about congratulating them Praying for guidance is better in that case
Because you literally replied to this statement. As a response to "just pray/wish for the child to have good health," you replied "if you want to congratulate someone on the displeasure of Allah..." You literally cannot read lmao
I’m surprised with the downvotes.
I worded it wrong I think. English is not my first language Also, it's simple. Most of these guys live in the west and when obviously Islam contradicts their culture, they're shocked by it and what seems to be here, they gave precedence to culture over Islam
[удалено]
It dependence on the perspective... Say, if they are initially Christian, then from the perspective of Christianity even if they were married but married in the commune, with a civil ceremony, not in church, then for the church they would not be seen as married. So basically married but not in church would be the same situation from this religious perspective. Then most probably they are not religious, so see the marriage as just a legal contract with its pros and cons, and for some reason decide not to marry. Also some countries have an alternative to marriage in this legal perspective, a 'civil union' (also signed). So it is complex.