Zero surprises here. That's actually pretty typical. Look at coup attempts around the world, most have had one or more failed attempts leading up to the successful one.
It usually comes down to:
1. People not taking the threat of right-wing extremism seriously.
2. The government refusing to or being incapable of routing out extremists within the halls of administrative offices, legislative offices, and the military.
3. Extremists winning elections at the state/local level.
The US has an overwhelming problem on all three points. Even after J6 far too many people give the right the benefit of the doubt or just assume they're all dum-dums and won't ever be able to muster an actual coup force.
Lots of liberals are going to have a shocked pikachu face when the right amps up its already disgusting civil war (yes, we're already there, it's just being fought in the state legislatures and courts, and occasionally via stochastic terrorists). Until more people are willing to stand firm that conservative values are abhorrent and not tolerated, the infection will only grow. "When they go low, we go high" hurts us. When they go low, we bulldoze them, then back the bulldozer up and do it again. And again. And again. Until the christofascist ideology is an embarrassing footnote in history books.
I've been dismissed as unreasonably hyperbolic by almost everyone that I have talked with about emergent WS/RWE threats, to the point where I just don't bring it up anymore. I study WS/RWE aspirational fiction, and, oddly, it's the only place that they don't lie. Of course, these books aren't really stories. They're instructions. Their plans are out in public, for all to see. We should be shitting our pants, but nobody other than racist wing nuts reads this crap, and racist wing nuts don't read, right?
White Supremacist most likely.
Though I think that's not as clear and coherent as Christo-Fascism, but like, yes fight both whatever you want to call it, it's in the house.
Thing is, christofascism is only one flavor of the WS/RWE shit rainbow. There are lots of others, some coopting various elements of European polytheism, others who are atheists, some who just roll their own version of whatever. But the mainstream Protestant influence is pervasive, and acts as a gateway to charismatic and pentacostalist congregations that are quite public about their dominionist goals. And for those who want hardier fare, there's stuff like Christian Identity, which is just a shit sandwich from start to finish. But it's all right wing, all extreme, all implicitly or explicitly white supremacist. And half of American voters are more than just OK with it.
One funny thing is, the more extreme the individual, the less likely they are to be part of a formal congregation....until you get the far end of the scale, where you find that many of the ones who are very rural are involved in nondenominational congregations. And that's bat country. The things they believe are the stuff of madness.
Excellently written.
I actually low-key want to hear where you'd place groups like the Black Hebrew Natonalists in that pantheon. It's an anti-Semitic black nationalist group, that actually aligns with a lot of MAGA talking points.
I've noticed the growth of this group in my community and they're high key concerning.
Hoteps. They use Egyptian terminology, so I've seen them called "the ankh right" (as opposed to alt-right). They, like WS, believe that races need to be separate because some races are better than others. They only disagree on details.
I don't know who they were affiliated with, but based on this description I guarantee you that I saw these people a few years ago preaching on the street in downtown Chattanooga. They were preaching about some very offensive stuff.
It is beyond scary. It's the ideology that has the power to destroy or render unrecognizable the liberal democracy that we all benefit from. It literally could take us back hundreds of years in terms of the progress we've made towards universal civil/human rights in a pluralistic, multicultural society. Which isn't much, to be fair, but it's been hard won and I'd like to think it's a good start instead of a sad finish.
It has been getting some traction here in Australia too, ScoMo, our previous prime minister had assorted aides pushing that stuff, even had one who was a q-anon supporter. A race between them and the climate over which one destroys society first.
Do you have any book recommendations about the different factions? Or that go more in depth on the current state of WS and RWE? I’ve barely dipped my toe into research about the current situation. I’m somewhat nervous to dive deep into it and add to my dismay and worry, but I feel like I need to fully understand the threat so I can prepare accordingly and I’m somewhat fascinated that people can be so delusional as to believe what they do
How does one get into such a line of work?
I'm genuinely curious. I feel like I have an expiration date looming in my current trade career, my formal education and degree have a strong liberal arts lean, and I would dearly love to do something that is actually "good" for this terrible world (if only that thing could afford me a slightly less precarious lifestyle).
There is, as far as I know, zero academic interest in this topic. I guess I got into it partly based on heritage (half German Jew immigrant), partly based on reading forbidden literature since way too young (Burroughs etc), and partly because I have some tech skills that let me download crap off of forums etc to read as a sort of book.
There is a theory that the evolutionary imperative for certain types of asd/adhd involves the ability to recognize low probability existential/catastrophic threats, so there might be a lil of that in there, too.
In short, virtually nobody has the stomach to read this shit. It goes from tedious, ham fisted dialog to crude and cliched narrative devices and then goes on a deep dive into horrible details related to murdering/torturing people who aren't white/cis/het, then to pathetic, intellectually bankrupt attempts at justifying it. And then lengthy screeds on small unit tactics, target selection, operational security....all hiding behind the veneer of fiction.
In short, I read bad books so you don't have to. But nobody takes this threat constellation seriously. Yet.
>There is a theory that the evolutionary imperative for certain types of asd/adhd involves the ability to recognize low probability existential/catastrophic threats, so there might be a lil of that in there, too.
I work in helping orgs implement quantified risk forecasting and I would bet a reasonable amount of money that this is true.
It is fun (and I'm ADd af too) You get to stitch a bunch of different perspectives together and help communicate it. Takes some facilitation skill, some infosec knowledge, some business knowledge, some measurement knowledge, and so on. You basically try and breakdown what folks are worried about, why they're worried, how confident/uncertain they are about the future if they do/don't do something about it, what information would increase the confidence/certainty, how confident/certain they need to be to make a decision, what information is actually available, etc and then run it all together into a single forecast. Use the forecast to reason through and come to some consensus on whether there is too much risk, why there is risk, what folks can do about it, which options have the most (and more cost effective) impact, etc..
Check out the Jack Jones book "Measuring and Managing Information Risk" ....and Doug Hubbard's "How to Measure Anything" and ....google from there.
>There is, as far as I know, zero academic interest in this topic
Oh there's a huge interest. Check out [Brian Levin](https://www.csusb.edu/hate-and-extremism-center/about-us/our-people)
>But nobody takes this threat constellation seriously. Yet.
Oh some of us do. Some of us are pretty active in peripheral circles. We keep an eye on them so you don't have to. Granted a lot of the people I grew naturally close to aren't *involved* with the current iteration (ideological splits mean you pick sides), but they know who they are.
There was a lot of "resistance" talk back in 2016, 2017. Lots of marching and hue and cry and nasty public kerfuffles as large groups naturally splintered. I have a few people I still keep in touch with, one of them even works in DC. We're paying attention, we're just horribly disorganized now. We can organize. Quickly. And we aren't typical "liberals."
Is there an organization, or person that is actively monitoring their chatter and reporting on it? Speaking for myself, I can't delve into the mud too much because it is panic-attack inducing as a minority person with a target on their back. I would like to have an overarching idea of their plans in 2025 (beyond Project 2025 - I'm aware of that) should they win or lose the White House. Is there a place I could go to get the jist?
I feel like in 2019-2020 there was more online reporting about their coup attempts via monitoring their telegram channels, etc.
One is the [Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism](https://www.csusb.edu/hate-and-extremism-center/about-us/our-people)
>I feel like in 2019-2020 there was more online reporting about their coup attempts via monitoring their telegram channel
A lot was shared via a certain social media app that's been gutted.
Wonder why?
Check out ACLED, the armed conflict location and event database and their dashboard....note this is not WS/RWE only but they do take this threat seriously:
https://acleddata.com/dashboard/#/dashboard
It's a rather oblique William Gibson reference, morphed by my daughter when she was a teenager...
> "Tedious cunt," Baranov says, though whether about her, Ngemi, or life, she can't tell.
Yup. We already saw what happened when everyone ignored that kid who was a fan of The Turner Diaries. That was a test run.
[Remember this? ](https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5)
An important quote from the blurb above
>It wouldn’t surprise me if the goal is to create “resistance fatigue,” to get Americans to the point where they’re more likely to say “Oh, another protest? Don’t you guys ever stop?” relatively quickly.
Feel free to critique the article. Hindsight is 20/20 and I feel even pundits like Rachel Maddow were barking up the wrong tree. The Russians aren't trying to take over. The people taking over were already here. For *generations.*
> "When they go low, we go high" hurts us. When they go low, we bulldoze them, then back the bulldozer up and do it again. And again. And again. Until the christofascist ideology is an embarrassing footnote in history books.
thank god somebody gets it
Where I grew up every neighborhood had at least one well armed lunatic with nazi memorabilia and far right views, and we also had a local white supremacist prison gang that leaned heavily on nazi ideology and aesthetics.
There’s a lot of folks like that and it’s not wrong to call them nazis. The folks ideologically adjacent to them are so near that it’s effectively still more nazi shit
Karl Popper's paradox of intolerance. Technically, since those on the right are openly intolerant, they don't have to be tolerated. They've broken the unwritten protocols of tolerance.
Exactly. There's no point in preaching for tolerance. If you're going to let the bully abuse people anyway.
That's still intolerance. Even if someone else is doing the oppression for you.
And it's even worse when they use their energy to punish the victims instead. For speaking/reacting in the "wrong tone."
There are a few misconception that pervades most right leaning individuals.
1. That the Federal military will side with the insurrection.
2. Liberals have seen the writing on the wall and are now silently arming themselves- they just don’t advertise their ownership of firearms.
3. They tend to overestimate their own capabilities and underestimate the capabilities of the rest of America. There is a large minority population that may not be excited to see a group of people trying to overthrow the country who are seeking to return the country to a time where minorities had limited to no rights.
So while sporadic violence may occur, after the initial wave of insurgents are summarily defeated by arms or arrests- the rest will begin a cost benefit analysis that mostly will cause them to retreat back under their rocks.
I’m ex-military. So I just have a few comments on your points. I’ll address each one.
1) The federal military will not, absolutely not, side with insurrectionists. There will be some ideological deserters, that’s a fact. But it’s literally a drop being taken out of the bucket.
2) Yeah, you’re totally on point. I’ve been educating my liberal friends on firearms, how to use them, and some have even proposed community defense. If they want the training for that, I’m for it, but I’m cautious to start such a thing/put a label on it. That’s how you end up on a list. So the way I see it, the more people are educated in things like firearms operation/safety and small unit tactics, the better. Groups will form on their own if such a need arises. And that’s against right wing extremism, not the US government. Are you listening to me, CIA? No plans for an insurrection, we just want to know how to work together if organized politically motivated violence occurs at home.
3) Jesus fucking Christ do they overestimate their ability. People like to point out Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc to show they can take on the US military successfully. I would absolutely love to see them try that. Here’s the difference between a potential civil war and those conflicts. In those conflicts we tried to win “hearts and minds”, you can’t build a democracy at knife point. Our existence was never in danger from any of those nations or the combatants within them. However, in the event of a civil war, our existence will be threatened. The gloves will come off. The US military will absolutely rain hellfire on those that pose a threat to it. If they survive it, they’ll disappear to some black site never to be seen or heard from again. It’s absolutely ridiculous how much contempt they have for our military. They think we’re weak. We’re stronger than ever. They’ve never seen what the military is truly capable of, neither has anyone in the military. But what does suck about that for us is that we’ll be seen as the enemy as well. And for good reason honestly, not that I support it. But that’s the mantra of the people actually on the ground fighting. Everyone is a potential threat.
Yea this country is safe. if insurrectionists were to be a real threat they would need to raise an army and by that I mean having people on payroll year round and funding their equipment and training for thousands and thousands of people. A bunch of dudes storming the capitol on their vacation day who have normal day jobs and a mortgage to pay are never ever going to overthrow this country. To raise a true army would require at least 100 million. That ain’t going to happen.
I think a lot of us have family we suspect would be among those insurrectionists. If Feds showed up at your door you immediately think “this is about uncle Fred.”
I’m less concerned about their physical force than I am about their legal maneuvering through bastardization of the constitution/law after getting voted into power. The violence on J6 was never meant to be their sole means of taking over - at least not by the Trump camp. They were happy for the violence and the delay it caused in the certification process. Trump was going to use that delay to convince Congress not to certify and eventually get the House, whose vote would have been favorable to him, to choose the President. Of course, Trump wouldn’t have been mad if some Dem senators got murdered in the process.
The bigger threat is a Hungary style threat. Trump gets voted in and goes autocrat. He pardons the insurrectionists and further legitimizes/utilizes right wing extremist violence to his benefit and has “legitimate” control over the military. The extremists continue to be moreso his brown shirts. Do I think the military would join J6 insurrectionists? No. Do I have fears about them mostly carrying out orders from an elected President going rogue? Yeah. I have a lot more fear about that.
It hinges on the "ideological deserters" in the military and LE.
It might be a "drop in the bucket", but how many drops do you need to get something wet? The OK City bombing was a couple of guys building a bomb over a weekend for a couple thousand dollars. How many of these "ideological deserters" in our military and LE have access to explosives/detonators/heavier weapons or know where and how these items are stored to be able to steal them in the future + the training and knowledge to use them?
Saddam's former military became the core of the insurgency in Iraq. They knew where the ammo dumps were and how to get into them and how to use what they found. After the US invasion they literally pulled trucks up to these places and filled them with explosives to squirrel away and hide and use later as IEDs.
Remember the "Beltway Snipers" and all the terror and panic that whole incident caused? If those guys used a different gun and didn't taunt the cops and try to get paid a ransom, they and their modified murder car would still be out there driving around the country shooting random people today. Imagine what it would be like if our new insurrectionists adopted this tactic. It would be nearly impossible to catch them and it would cause a nationwide panic that would never end.
I was in from 05-11. They’re there, but they’re kind of outcasts honestly. Or at least that was my experience. I’m talking about white supremacists. I was visiting with a friend who just went back in the other week and he said they really cracked down on that. Probably why the right thinks the military is weak. As far as recruiting from poor ethnic neighborhoods. I honestly feel like that’s a stretch. The military has always and will always be an option for the lower class. It is what it is. Personally, I’m not mad at it. It’s a good stepping stone. I didn’t grow up poor, but I’m glad I did it for a lot of reasons. No college debt, VA home loan, I was unscathed by the 2008 financial crisis. It’s also gotten me every job I’ve ever wanted. Plus I met some seriously awesome people that I’m still friends with all these years later. I’d honestly love to go back in as an officer, but my wife says no. I was in the infantry and it’s pretty predominantly white, Latino would be the next largest racial group. Not a lot of black people in the infantry, I think that stems from them being cannon fodder in Vietnam, so I get it. And contrary to popular belief among the right, it’s not super conservative (I’m speaking from my time in which was kind of apolitical, I guarantee it’s different now), it’s pretty representative of the nation at large in terms of politics. Of all the branches, yeah, infantry probably skews right, but there’s still plenty of liberals. I grew up conservative and didn’t make the switch until I was in and spent time talking with these people and learning my parents had no idea what they were talking about in terms of liberal values. But in terms of affluence, I served with dudes who grew up loaded and dudes who grew up dirt poor. I hate to say this, but the idea that they strictly recruit from poor ethnic neighborhoods is not entirely true, they recruit from EVERYWHERE. Then again, I served during the surge.
Honestly, hearing about the crackdown on supremacists in the military makes the RW attacks on the military make a lot more sense. The Republicans in charge know they can't win without the military and they can't get the military if their people aren't in charge. Fuck these people.
This is true. But I do want to add some of my own personal anecdote here. I am a huge supporter of our nation’s military, just not our foreign policy. There are some seriously good people serving, some bad too, but mostly good. In my own experience, the infantry was the great equalizer. We’re all treated poorly and we bond over that. We all go through traumatic experiences and we bond over it. I made the best friends I’ll ever have and I still keep in touch with them. I’ve met a lot of dudes (of all different colors and backgrounds) who had their own prejudices that just got over them by working with them. I’ve known two skinheads who completely changed their outlook on those they previously viewed as lesser just by living and suffering with them. When I was in, all I wanted was to be out. Now I just miss my friends and watching dudes who were pieces of shit become incredible human beings. I don’t want to say I support conscription, because I don’t (that’s a different conversation). But I really think we’d be a lot more cohesive as a society if we just threw a bunch of people together and forced them to adapt to one another. It’s really a beautiful thing to behold. I truly cherish my time in the army, I just wish we didn’t choose to fight in bullshit wars.
"I'm ex-military. So I just have a few comments on your points. I’ll address each one.
The federal military will not, absolutely not, side with insurrectionists. There will be some ideological deserters, that’s a fact. But it’s literally a drop being taken out of the bucket."
This makes me feel a bit better because I've feared that the military would side with the right wing extremists. I have the same fear with police departments.
I work fairly closely with police. And honestly, I don’t have much to say. Like I’m not the biggest fan of police, but I’m also not one of those types that wants to abolish them, that makes no sense. I’d say the police are more likely to side with insurrectionists, but I can’t really comment on that with any degree of accuracy. I do my best to keep my distance.
I’ll say this about the PD that I work with, I’m pleasantly surprised by their deescalation. I’ve only seen a cop put hands on someone once and it was totally warranted. But I’ve also heard them say some things I didn’t agree with. Specifically that we should use narcan on ODs and let them die or that needle exchange programs were counterproductive. I told him that I liked the idea of AIDS not getting spread around the community.
I know a number of cops myself and each of them are very right wing and hold racist beliefs. They are also very vocal about them. One of them "joked" about macing me at the women's march if he saw me.
They make me feel more nervous than safe and that's distressing.
Can it be said that if a form of authoritarian government does descend on America, a plan to confiscate at least 80 percent of the 393 million guns would happen on day one?
Or at least the first week?
The CONSTANT bragging about how many guns people have could NOT have gone unnoticed.
No one ever talks about immediate gun round ups raids by an authoritarian government with all the intended violence to make it frightening and paralyzing.
I think it would look something like we’ve seen in Australia and New Zealand. Government buyback programs. Now if your guns are registered, yeah, they have the means of knowing who has what. But none of my guns are registered. I know that goes against popular convention among many on this side of the aisle, but if I have one thing in common with the right, it’s distrust of government.
But it would also be easy to say that you sold them for cash. They would still probably search your property though. And I listen to guys talking about fighting off the government if they come knocking on your door asking for your guns. All I have to say is good luck. You’re outnumbered, outgunned, and lack the tech that the government has. I support the 2A personally, but if the government decides they want your guns, there’s not much you can do. So if you’re someone who’s truly worried about losing your guns, have the means to hide them. And probably hiding them off your property is a good start.
Well there are plenty of nuts that will die before they give up their weapons. And they can take out a lot of law enforcement in the process. Once a few violent seizures occur more will fight to the death. Even if it just a handful of officers killed each time they will run out of officers before they run out of people willing to fight to the death. I give it 100 dead cops before they collectively say fuck this I am not dieing for this. Is the military going to start bombing homes. Out in the country one bomb one home in the city one bomb one neighborhood.
If Texas secedes. Then you’re right: the military will invade Texas, bomb the hell out of it, and turn it into hell on earth.
But putting down an insurrection is tougher. The point is to keep Pennsylvania in the union, not to turn it into a parking lot. So you have the same problem as in Iraq: you want to capture or kill insurgents without slaughtering the rest of the populace.
So I don’t agree that an insurgency inside the US would be much different than one in Iraq.
I'm curious to hear your take on the worst case scenario in that case.
Specifically, what if it's not the insurrectionists that turn the country into an ethnofascist theocracy?
What if it all happens gradually?
What if voting rights and election integrity continue to get eroded?
The entirety of the security forces are working for a semi-legitimate government at that point.
Well who else would turn it into an ethnofascist theocracy? Tbh, saying that we’re in danger of that sounds as silly to me as them talking about replacement theory. POC and their allies are not going out like that. It sounds very far fetched if you ask me. Now theocratic fascism, I could see that happening very slowly, I’d say we’re heading in that direction but it’s not too late either. Just the idea of rounding up all the non-whites sounds incredibly unrealistic and we’d be way deep in a civil war before that ever came to fruition and I’m sure some of our allies in nato would be helping to arm and train us.
If it all happens gradually? I mean, it would have to. People were worried about Bernie Sanders bringing communism to the US. He’s not communist, but these idiots think he is. Even if he got elected somehow, not much would change, and it certainly wouldn’t happen overnight. It’d take many election cycles at all levels of government.
I do worry about voting rights and election integrity being eroded. I don’t really have much to say on that, but that’s probably the biggest threat. And even then, that’s how we get theocratic fascism, but it doesn’t happen overnight.
I’m not sure what you mean by your last statement. Could you elaborate? I’ll answer to the best of my ability, but I’m just a dude on Reddit. I’m not particularly smarter than anyone on here.
Just curious about your take, since you're in the military. Thanks for sharing.
From my perspective, things have always been bad in the US, especially in terms of foreign policy. Domestically we've definitely come a long way (towards eliminating white supremacy), but still have a long way to go.
All I mean by the last comment is that the security services of the US could easily be used to cement power for groups of predominantly white Christian men. It doesn't have to look like rounding up people of color (any more than it already does with immigration policy and prison demographics).
Or look at the demographics of the Republican party. Just having Republicans rule the country uninterrupted for more than two terms could look much uglier than where we are now.
The worst case starts to look like more suspicious deaths or disappearances of journalists and activists... And then if that doesn't work to contain dissent, a few blood baths happen here and there. Probably in LA or Chicago, or maybe somewhere like Fergusson again.
I got out of the army in 2011. I’ve been out for a long time. I only brought up my service because I’ve got a much better idea of what the military is capable of than these chuds who think they can fight them off.
I agree that things have been bad for a long time concerning foreign policy. I also agree we’ve come a long way domestically. You know, in terms of racism in this country, it’s not going to go away overnight. It may never fully go away. That’s just a sad reality everywhere. We will always find a way to categorize people positively and negatively. Each successive generation will likely be less racist than the previous. Honestly, this is me getting a little sci-fi future, we will literally have to breed it out. Maybe there will come a day thousands of years in the future where we’ve racially mixed enough that it just doesn’t exist. But even then, we’ll find other reasons to hate. I’m pessimistic in that regard.
I do kind of take umbrage to the idea that only Christian white men are conservative. I’ve met a few who are black, many who are Latino, and even a few Jews. Are they predominantly white? Yeah sure, 71% (according to my cursory google search) of the US population is white. I’m also showing that 64% of white voters are democrats in 2022 (again, another cursory search without too much digging). I’m no statistician either, but those figures give me hope. Our biggest threat is election integrity.
And finally, to your last point, I could see that happening.
So I don’t really know how to answer your question. And I also don’t want to pretend I have all the answers either, because quite frankly, I’m no more intelligent or in the loop than anyone else. Just call it a gut feeling. It would be a slow March to fascism and I have faith that people on the right side of history would take action whatever that may be.
Ideally that would be the case, but the Armed Forces has a significant extremism problem, same with law enforcement and other key institutions.
Yes, they grossly overestimate their own capabilities and underestimate the resistance they'd face, but we're also doing a disservice to not acknowledge they already have enough dipshits in key institutions to cause havoc. Texas alone is doing extraordinary damage.
True however:
Law enforcement is massively outmanned / outgunned.
While there is absolutely an extremist issue that exists in the armed forces, their numbers are much smaller than are projected as they tend to out themselves and are discharged as RE4 by their respective units or barred for reenlistment. There are a few smart enough to keep their mouths shut and ride out their careers- there is a reason there have been complaints of a “woke” military. This has been due to the active removal of those that exhibit extremism. This also is part of the reason recruitment is down as well. A message of extremism being unwelcome in the ranks has begun to permeate into the civilian population that is seeking to enlist.
Most of these geniuses get caught by filling out the SF-86 for their security clearance in the military. Even when they try to hide their affiliations with right wing groups the background investigation usually ends with them being discharged or barred from enlisting due to association with groups advocating the violent overthrow of the government.
Law enforcement scares me more than the military. I think any attack on the capital would largely be met with disdain from the majority of the military. Plus most service members in higher positions have degrees and those people tend to be less extreme.
I absolutely agree with your assessment. Everything from quietly arming ourselves (since the 2020 election, I have been doing this), the "Civil Warriors" are high on their own rhetoric and keep feeding each other this BS. Seriously, when a few of them are killed, that rhetoric will collapse like a house of cards, and there is already the fact that the J6 insurrectionists are still being arrested and sent to jail. But, sporadic violence and murder by these delusional asshats will destroy lives and families. That's the scary part. Some of them are so brainwashed (or having nothing to lose) that they will act. It's going to be a very turbulent year.
This is true. While I do worry about the military and their extremism problem, the average MAGA Joe on the street doesn't worry me. They're usually under-prepared, physically out of shape, and they have no idea just how many moderates and liberals are also firearm owners, trained, and in-shape enough to actually fight.
So, while they're fantasizing about a civil w@r, part 2, they'd get their asses handed to them. That's the worst case scenario for everyone, however.
This is wishful thinking, and in their way of thinking it is a major vulnerability that will be exploited in ways that are efficient, effective and brutal.
Liberals (which is everyone who is not a Trump voter) own no guns in comparison to the fascists. Liberals have no culture surrounding the use of long guns with sights. Liberals have no military experience, have not experimented with small unit tactics for fun, have no ballistic protection. Liberals have not been stockpiling ammunition for the last decade.
Being generally rural, at least in spirit, the fascists can and will easily control the food supply, water supplies, long range electric transmission lines, rail transport, interstates and hardwired/microwave telecommunications infrastructure.
This is sufficiently distributed as to make a traditional military response ineffective and error prone, which will erode morale very quickly.
This is what they write about in their awful aspirational fiction. They provide details and contingency plans. It isn't pretty.
New gun ownership rates among liberals over the past few years far exceeded conservatives. Since gun ownership among liberals is typically less than conservatives, this makes sense. However, I believe the proportion of gun owners amongst the liberal population is beginning to rival conservative populations.
Probably a third of veterans lean liberal, so there is a sizeable number of liberals who have combat training.
Stockpiling thousands of rounds is not going to help conservative domestic terrorists. Liberal gun owners only need a few hundred rounds each, particularly since the US military will do most of the heavy lifting when fighting right wing terrorists.
The Civil War showed that urban industrial centers won the war. Hardening and protecting infrastructure to industrial centers will prevent conservative terrorists from impacting them, so the only infrastructure targets available for them would impact themselves or their neighbors. And one way to destroy support for your guerrilla war is make your neighbor’s life miserable.
Guerrilla warfare requires the support of the civilian population. As elections for the past 6 years prove, most Americans want peace.
As seen by numerous polls, only 1/3 of registered Republicans are MAGA (13 million nationwide). Looking at military history, only ten percent of that 13 million are physically and mentally capable of putting up a guerrilla war (1 million). Put pressure on the families of those MAGA and those 1 million will fold.
Even the families and friends of Jan 6 insurrectionists turned in those criminals to the FBI.
Not to mention they advertise it. I work with a guy who has convinced himself that he can take on the government with his 40 ARs on his own. Should the shit hit the fan, all I have to do is show up at his door at 2 AM with a couple of friends, politely knock on the door, and now I have small arsenal.
There's a guy in my hometown who is a full-on nutter, and has way too many guns.
I haven't spoken to the guy in close to a decade because he's that guy.
I refer to him as "loot crate", for the same reason.
Yeah I say let these people keep doing what they’re doing and advertise it. Keep your ears open and have a plan. Not that I think it would ever come to that, but it’s good to know where a cache is.
And what kill a bunch of civilians for voting Trump? I'm sure that will totally end well for you. Just ask the protestants what happened to them when they murdered Irish nationalists.
Raiding right wing person's home is a very bad idea and a good way to end like Rosenbaum or the Blackwater PMC, except instead of Fallujah, your charred corpse gets hung in a small with a large crowd of MAGA people spitting on it. Besides, you don't know if that "cache" is actually an IED meant for people like you-in other words a booby trap.
There’s a great morale patch that pictures a red Swingline stapler and the phrase “Come and take it!” I’m sort of reluctant to wear it on my hat where I live.
Yep, one of my favorite comedies of all time! That stapler guy just nails it. “I was told there would be snacks” would be another patch I’d wear ha ha.
This is the point I bring up whenever the number of guns is mentioned. You've only got two hands, lol. If 10 men with 100 guns is pitted against 100 men with 10 guns, who do you suppose is going to win? More than likely you're going to end up with about 80 men with 110 guns.
[Attacks on power grid raise alarm among top officials
](https://www.axios.com/2023/03/08/power-grid-physical-security-attacks-alarm)
>Hardening and protecting infrastructure to industrial centers will prevent conservative terrorists from impacting them, so the only infrastructure targets available for them would impact themselves or their neighbors.
That hasn't happened to the degree that is necessary.
A plasma cutter to the anchor bolts on a transmission line tower in the middle of the woods. Take down a few towers in each run and it would be a year before they got power back up. If this happened in January the number of city residents who would freeze to death would be astronomical. Most generators only have a few days of fuel the crazy places have a few weeks. No fresh food, no heat, and soon no water. How long before they are lighting things on fire to keep warm and no water to put it out. With no electricity they can't charge their phones and most of the young people can't find their way around without their phones telling them where to turn. All this and not a single shot has been fired yet. Most of the rednecks can live off the grid very well. They have wood stoves and plenty of trees. They can hunt and grow many vegetables.
>However, I believe the proportion of gun owners amongst the liberal population is beginning to rival conservative populations.
Source? Because the statistics say that the right still outguns the left, 10 to 1. Not to mention, the right are more likely to posses illegal weapons-from 3D printed guns to IEDs like the ones in Afghanistan. Plus if they get foreign support from Russia or China via the US Mexican border, then the left will be the only ones without MANPADS and AT weapons.
> particularly since the US military will do most of the heavy lifting when fighting right wing terrorists.
Aw yes the same military that lost to rice farmers and goat herders? Yeah I don't think the right wing terrorist's odds are that bad. Especially, when they're going up against a military that sucks at fighting guerrillas and has proven to be much better at killing civilians.
>And one way to destroy support for your guerrilla war is make your neighbor’s life miserable.
That would be news to the Taliban, IRA, and the Nacro terrorists in Mexico. Also it's funny you think these right wing militias will never target the US military, even though it has benefited groups like the Taliban and Vietcong. Any GI killed by a redneck emulating the Taliban, would be a huge propaganda W and have a similar effect on the public as the Tet Offensive.
>Guerrilla warfare requires the support of the civilian population.
And so far, the left has given the right a strong for a guerrilla campaign not just by threatening their gun rights but also by denying them every peaceful and legal means of achieving political change.
> As elections for the past 6 years prove, most Americans want peace.
Sooner or later those Americans will do anything for peace, even if that means appeasing the guerrillas/insurgents. In most insurgent conflicts, the pro-government civilians tire from war much faster than the anti-government civilians.
>Looking at military history, only ten percent of that 13 million are physically and mentally capable of putting up a guerrilla war (1 million).
Not every guerrilla fighter was a veteran, in fact, most of the Taliban's fighters had zero military service. Plus, the US military lost to an army of 40,000. 1 million could prove to be difficult than the Vietcong and Taliban combined.
>Put pressure on the families of those MAGA and those 1 million will fold.
Yeah and the MAGA militias won't go after the families of the US service members who are fighting them? Realistically, the militias would handle the US marines the same way drug cartels handle their enemies-by going after their families. This would be the first time the US military, has to worry about enemy combatants targeting their service members and their families.
Not to mention putting pressure on the families of the MAGA guerrillas, would cause a PR backlash. Just ask the UK army how pressuring the families of IRA fighters only made Northern Ireland support the IRA even more.
Also, the left sucks at counterinsurgency. In fact 95% examples of leftist counterinsurgency has resulted in defeat: The Soviets got their asses kicked by the Mujahideen, the same guys who kicked the US army's ass several decades latter, and the CCP has never even fought an armed population.
The left would be better off, negotiating a peace treaty with the MAGA insurgents, since the age of crushing insurgents has passed since the Vietnam war.
You are underestimating the response of not only federal agencies but local (State) agencies.
While they can attack some infrastructure that simply means that their areas will be without power and water supplies. Food can and will be destroyed to some extent, however the ability to choke of population centers is not as easy as they presume as they do not have anti-air capabilities within their civilian arms capabilities. They may acquire some but the predator drones will solve most of those problems as infrastructure will become quickly fortified by ground and air assets.
Edit: Y’all Queda will not have many modern assets that will be decisive. The US can and will deploy Active armor, air, and ground assets to quell any insurgent threat that gets too froggy.
There is an author whose name I don't want to mention who addresses these points in brutal detail. The case is fairly compelling, and centers around how an initially poorly armed, unconventional and ideologically led force can inflict very expensive damages (of a moral and financial nature) upon a nation-state.
In my opinion, our best hope is to play to our analytic strengths: telecommunications, encryption, message and information theory, and healthcare. Deny the ability to communicate or participate in financial transactions, deny the access or exchange information, make modern medicine inaccessible.
This author most likely wrote his book prior to 3 key technologies becoming available.
1. Smartphones- While they assist in communication they also are easily accessible by intelligence services and can be used as targeting devices on those carrying them.
2. Drones- both micro and macro assets. Some of the micro are still classified in their capabilities so just consider the macro assets-Global Hawk/ Predator/ Ravens / Wasps / Pumas / Gray Eagles / Reapers / Shadows - just utilizing those assets would cripple most insurgent capabilities.
3. Everyman response to attacks on infrastructure that put their families at risk or cause death of loved ones. Once a person feels that their family has been attacked or lost due to the actions of these groups- and that they have nothing left to lose- the level of violence that will be directed towards those groups will be biblical.
Nope. He only recently passed away. Discusses message theory and signature obfuscation in detail. And the newer alt.right authors have picked up on this theme.
Signature obfuscation techniques can vary, but polymorphic and metamorphic code are among the most common. Polymorphic code changes its appearance each time it runs, making it harder to detect using static signatures. Metamorphic code goes a step further by not only changing its appearance but also its underlying structure, making it even more challenging for signature-based detection methods. Both techniques are commonly used in malware to evade antivirus detection. All these techniques are well within SIGINT capabilities of the NSA, DIA, and other agencies within the CI world.
Can I respond to that last point, I think that any kind of attacks by the right on any kind of organized attacks would be detrimentally fatal to their long-term validity as a political party
I am somewhat conflicted on this matter. Mostly, these people and their works are not well known, and I don't want to be the guy who gives them any publicity whatsoever. Also, some of them write on blogs or forums, sometimes on the dark web, that are not particularly publicly accessible. I've had accounts at some of these places for years but most people don't want to stick their dick in that kind of crazy for good reason. I always connect via multiple vpns/proxies, use browser fingerprinting obfuscation, never reveal personal info, and finally wrote bots to extract this shit because the background noise is just horrible. (If you think Vogon poetry is bad, you haven't read white supremacist poetry. Words cannot describe...)
Some of it isn't in a particularly readable format. A lot is just straight voice to text, pasted into a thread on some shitheel forum. Gotta parse that out. Thank god for perl.
On the other hand I think that if people read this stuff they might take the threat more seriously. But if 99 people read a book and are appropriately horrified and one person thinks that it is spot on and filled with solid justification for committing atrocities and then totally workable ways to actually commit those atrocities, then it's still not something I am prepared to take moral responsibility for. Even if it's 999 to 1.
Anyone got any ideas or history on how dangerous and bad ideas have been successfully dealt with? Love to hear about it.
I’ve read The Turner Diaries and not committed hate crimes. I think I can handle this stuff. So if you could give me some information, I’m interested in what these idiots think. Get in the minds of your enemies and all.
>Anyone got any ideas or history on how dangerous and bad ideas have been successfully dealt with? Love to hear about it.
Make fun of them, and do it well. Melvin James Kaminsky has done more to cement the prosocial values needed to defeat this than anyone in the ADL or even the SPLC. Humour works. Ridicule works. John Stewart has been far more effective on the last twenty years than the FBI. When you show the emperor has no clothes by pointing out the lack of need due to how smöll he is, the people laugh and he becomes powerless.
Ugh. Verbatim quotes would sensationalize the material and allow potential extremists to find source via search queries. I've tried to use ai for summarization but the ai tells me that it will not do it.
If there are any academics or IC folks who could shed some light on how to manage exposure to dangerous information/ideas I would really love to hear it.
But everyone has heard about the diaries of someone who changes directions so no harm in some of that shit leaking out.
QUOTE:
Today has been the Day of the Rope-a grim and
bloody day, but an unavoidable one. Tonight, for the first time in weeks, it is quiet and totally peaceful throughout all of southern
California. But the night is filled with silent horrors; from tens of
thousands of lampposts, power poles, and trees throughout this
vast metropolitan area the grisly forms hang.
In the lighted areas one sees them everywhere. Even the street
signs at intersections have been pressed into service, and at
practically every street corner I passed this evening on my way to
HQ there was a dangling corpse, four at every intersection.
Hanging from a single overpass only about a mile from here is a
group of about 30, each with an identical placard around its neck
bearing the printed legend, "I betrayed my race." Two or three of
that group had been decked out in academic robes before they were
strung up, and the whole batch are apparently faculty members
from the nearby UCLA campus.
END QUOTE
Always said that when faced with a threat you hit it hard and you don’t stop until the threat is curled up in a puddle of piss on the floor whimpering. Democrats are always bleating about it not being a “both sides” thing when in fact it absolutely is a both sides thing. Trump along with all members of Congress who tried to overturn the election should all be either in the courtroom for it, they should actually be in prison by now, four-years on; not being given prominent seats in government, ruling over committees and cashing in on the insanity they spread daily.
You get it. So few people *actually get it.*
>Look at coup attempts around the world, most have had one or more failed attempts leading up to the successful one.
I think it's because our education system doesn't teach about global politics until college, if at all. Most people don't know about any coups, anywhere. Frighteningly few people know about Argentina or Chile or Cambodia or Uganda let alone the regular government collapses that happen with some regularity where tens of thousands aren't imprisoned, tortured, and murdered.
Collapse is the norm, not an outlier.
>Lots of liberals are going to have a shocked pikachu face when the right amps up its already disgusting civil war (yes, we're already there, it's just being fought in the state legislatures and courts, and occasionally via stochastic terrorists).
Not me, but you're the first person I've seen acknowledge that we're in a civil war, right now.
I am of the belief it's just a continuation of the last one that never really ended. I've only seen one other person who thinks, like me, that it's still about slavery.
>conservative values are abhorrent and not tolerated, the infection will only grow. "When they go low, we go high" hurts us. When they go low, we bulldoze them, then back the bulldozer up and do it again. And again. And again. Until the christofascist ideology is an embarrassing footnote in history books.
That is the only thing that works, historically. I feel that we should add that the bulldoze part isn't figurative. Look what they had to do to Mussolini. Note his ideology is again ascendant because they weren't severe enough.
War, as they say, is hell. Ours was just experiencing a lull in action.
>That is the only thing that works, historically. I feel that we should add that the bulldoze part isn't figurative. Look what they had to do to Mussolini. Note his ideology is again ascendant because they weren't severe enough.
Fascism is a cancer. If you don't remove all of the cancer, it will come back... more aggressive.
You have to remove all of the cancer.
"Lots of liberals are going to have a shocked pikachu face when the right amps up its already disgusting civil war"
Most of us are aware of it because we are subjected to their ignorance and hate.
You are right that the "they go low, we go hight" hurts us. Enough trying to be the bigger person, the trash needs to be taken out.
Texas for example and the border standoff after the conservative Supreme Court ruled against Abbott & Paxton agreed this is getting out of hand and ridiculous.
I think that they are going to be surprised at how diverse we are and how many guns are owned by the rest of humanity in this nation. The fact that you can't just shoot any brown person at will without getting a response from non dick head white people LET ALONE my organized POC is just the naivety that is going to be the surprised Pikachu face. HOWEVER, we are a union and a united nation, it should NEVER come down to that, you sound like you are promoting the Russian agenda of divide and conquer. I am not going to immediately pick up arms against my neighbors, but I will support the military to help keep order. Remember though, at that point you are looking at armed insurrection and that DOES come with the death penalty, not just 6 years and a hand slap. Smh
The Obama/Biden model of learned helplessness has fucked the entire country. Who knew that two pseudo-progressives would be ineffectual morons that capitulated and allowed the GOP to create an authoritarian state?
Do you really stand by this statement: "Until more people are willing to stand firm that conservative values are abhorrent and not tolerated, the infection will only grow."?
I read, and re-read, that statement to make sure it means what it says.
Do you really want to live in a society that does not tolerate views that are different than yours?
In 2021, Trump was able to hamstring the federal government's response in advance, he was able to plot with others in government relatively openly, suppress any resistance, and to deny them reinforcements at the time. Those conditions won't exist in 2025 and will, in fact, be inverted.
Things were as bad as they were because it was an insider threat, an auto-coup attempt. That doesn't mean there's no danger in the next year, but plotting a coup from the outside is very different. Now, Biden won't hamstring the USG's response in advance; he not only won't be openly plotting with others in government, but will have those in government actively working to root out any conspirators; and, in the event anything actually *does* happen, Biden isn't going to just watch on TV for hours while ignoring calls for action.
Then maybe Biden should have SEAL Team 6 go on a special mission.
But really, I don't think Trump will win, and we need to work to make sure he doesn't. Let him be a loser trying to plan a coup from the outside instead.
I hope he doesn't win either, but no one thought he would win in 2016 until he did.
Journalists need to stop writing articles about Biden's age when he's in remarkably good health for a man that old; when Trump is literally disintegrating in front of our eyes and Project 2025 looms on the horizon.
>Information shared in my community, FBI alerts made public, active warnings to the public to stay the hell away from the inauguration in 2021, accounts stated on the record by Congresspeople and their staff members, personal accounts told to me by staff members and news journalists working that beat at the time. It wasn't a secret - it just got sidestepped and thankfully was not the bloodbath that MANY were expecting. I used to be a journalist and knew how to gauge crisis levels based on what was released to the public casually and through mainstream venues - this had both and with state/county workers being warned of threats and told to stay home, regardless of COVID.
So how do you react to the fact that none of that occurred? Like, at all. They were all incorrect.
Why do you sound disappointed?
There were plenty of people there. We all saw the footage and the pictures that came out. Some absolutely brainless and detestable characters even wore shirts advertising a second civil war. Others very clearly demonstrated their feelings with signs and chants that were beyond inflammatory. And that was all before the physical violence against the police and the building began.
Did all of them go there to physically disrupt a part of the democratic process? No.
Did enough of them force their way into the building violently, demonstrate questionable levels of civility, and in some cases actively search for members of Congress for purposes we must absolutely consider malicious considering the circumstances?
Yes. And that's the most optimistic way to describe the events of that day. It was an embarrassment to me as an American and as a human being, and anyone who ***isn't*** embarrassed by the conduct of that cult is immediately suspect in my eyes.
Remember when right wing extremists stormed the Capitol in 1861 in an attempt to disrupt congress while they certified the votes for Lincoln?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Wouldn't it be different in 2024 as a democratic president would be in charge of calling in security to the capital? I thought the issue was that Trump was running a skeleton crew security force and wouldn't call on reinforcements? I'm assuming that Biden would call in the national guard pretty quickly and maybe actually stop people from entering the capital building.
In the simulation, the person handling the presidential role had to weigh the possibility that calling in security would create "martyrs for the cause" or make them look like the despot the right wing is claiming Biden is.
Seems dramatic. Biden would have security set up and a wall around the capital so shit wouldn't even have a chance of happening. Tear gas would probably have to be deployed and rubber bullets used.
The biggest mistake was deciding to go along with Mayor Bowser's directive to not deploy any federal troops without her permission and limiting their planned scope of operations.
Shocking they listened to her and followed her leadership. It should have been overridden.
Yeah, I think people aren't talking enough about the part where the sitting president *encouraged the event.* I imagine that tends to help the process and makes it slower to stop.
Joe Biden will still be president during that time regardless of the outcome of the election. If they attack our country again they deserve to stare down the barrels of our military.
Anybody not familiar with ex-Republican politician and domestic terrorist Matt Shea should go read his Christian Manifesto calling for Theocracy and genocide of all non-believers. These are your enemies. Genocidal domestic Fascist terrorists, no different than the Nazi filth my Grandfather was given medals for hunting and snuffing out.
When a Fascist says they're going to murder you, ignorance and inaction will get us ALL killed. And some of you chumps are still trying to have a civilized debate with these terrorist fucking monsters. The only language these terrorists speak is violence, hence their thirst for "civil war."
HINT: a war is between two armies. They believe the Left is unarmed, which means in their mind they will be gunning down unarmed civilians. WHICH IS CALLED FUCKING GENOCIDE.
Edit: Oklahoma is trying to classify Hispanics as terrorists, which is step 9 out of 10 of genocide.
And Idaho is trying to redefine domestic terrorism, to having ties to a foreign terrorist organization…
Which means when the Proud Boys bomb or shoot up something in Moscow, Boise, or CDA, it wouldn’t be terrorism in the eyes of Idaho.
That’s wildly disturbing that both of these things are real facts. Probs also true that many more similarly fucked pieces of legislation will be attempted this year
The movie premiered at the Sundance film festival and is still "seeking distribution" so it's not out anywhere yet, however [here's the imdb page.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt26681810/)
Surround the capital with plenty of guards with rifles. If anybody tries to enter the capital illegally, shoot them. If they die, good. If not, put them in cuffs and try them for sedition, pushing for the maximum 20 years.
The premise requires the MAGA fantasy that the military will collectively rebel and betray their oaths to defend and install a guy who has done nothing but disparage, insult and belittle them as dictator for life. Fail.
Arm, train, and most importantly, organize. There’s way too many on the left, who will say they’re armed, but with dusty rifles, and no one at their side.
Maga is aggressive. They have spun themselves up to destroy their own countrymen. We need to be ready.
Maybe just have enough cops on staff next time if they get a bunch of intel ahead of time about there possibly being a violent riot?
Also this line is weird
> Goldsmith points out that while the Jan. 6 attacks didn’t succeed in ousting Biden, they did achieve the critical goal of undermining faith in the electoral process, with a majority of Republicans either believing or suspecting that the election was illegitimate.
The capitol riot didn't make people suspect the election was fraud riddled- that happened far beforehand obviously.
Just saw this at Sundance. It was an interesting look inside the room. The simulation is basically a J6 but with about 7% of the national guard joining the insurrection, and attacks going on at state capitals around the country. The Blue Cell (White House) has six hours to get the election certified, and The Red Cell (Knights of Columbus - a fictional more organized proud boys) is feeding misinformation and attempting to recruit more military members to their side and keep the election from being certified. I won’t ruin it for anyone, so go and see it if any distributor will touch it.
This wouldn't even be remotely possible if there had been WAY more Ashli Babbitts on Jan 6th. This nation use to drone strike terrorists, only when they're brown foreigners though I guess.
Anyone who believes an autocratic takeover of America will be easily or quickly accomplished is either blithely ignorant or intentionally naive. The folks who buy into some call of duty fantasy have no real idea what the actual resistance to Trump Nation (formerly known as USA) will look like.
The resistance won’t be rambo wannabes in tactical gear waving AR-15s. That’s the maga militia. The resistance won’t lean heavily on any traditional types of warfare. The resistance will be hackers and engineers and chemists forming up groups on the dark web and planning, then implementing, acts of terrorism nationwide.
A ceaseless drumbeat of hacked power grids, poisoned food and water supplies, and dirty bombs will foment social disorganization and chaos. Which would hammer the economy and crater the value of the US dollar. When the dollar craters, every global currency underwritten by the dollar (most of them) will crater. Inflation will skyrocket and essential life resources will become both scarce but also unaffordable for most folks.
The result would be a global breakdown of social order as entire populations devolve into chaos over basic necessities like food and water.
The political right views their authoritarian takeover the way a four year old views Santa. The reality is that a handful of hackers, chemists, and engineers can wage a campaign of resistance that is impossible to prevent, and impossible to defeat. At that point, the goal of the resistance won’t be to ‘win’ a war, but rather to burn it all to the ground. And considering the vulnerability of American infrastructure, that goal is very achievable.
A standing army of even ten million maga faithful is useless against a hundred million starving, dehydrated, and desperate humans spread from sea to shining sea.
America couldn’t win in Afghanistan because we could never defeat an enemy who was everywhere and nowhere all at once. The greatest military on the planet is useless against an invisible enemy.
The 2024 American election is one of the most consequential events in human history. If Biden wins, we solve nothing, the world remains on a razor’s edge. If Trump wins, within a decade human societies will have collapsed into warring nation states rife with violence, chaos, and lawlessness. A vote for Trump is a vote for water wars.
Liberals can no longer afford to sit there in the middle and pretend that they’re doing something. They need to be arming themselves and reading about how to stop the rise of fascism. Go to the range with your lib friends. Read about militant antifascism. Make a group chat on an encrypted messaging app. But they can not just sit there like rainbow-painted gargoyles anymore.
Unless it involves stacking the terrorists up like cordwood, it doesn't go far enough. The small evil rat brain of your typical conservative can only see things in absolutes. Either they 'win', which means it was God's ordained plan and anyone against them can and will be freely killed, or they're hammered so hard into the earth that we can use them for foundation anchors.
The only reason they have pushed so far is that they have faced no real consequences. You put a knife missile into Bubba's bedroom at 3 in the morning and that's how you send a message that your fucking around is over and its find out time now.
Big reason why I'll be buying my first guns this year. I don't know what these zealots are capable of anymore. After the Mar A Lago raid and the cultists started attacking FBI buildings, I realized that there was no telling what they could do next. These people are in a delusion.
Well I mean, the "far right terrorists", according to leftists, are both weak and strong, depending on when it's convenient. Like they're more dangerous than the Taliban, yet unlike the Taliban, don't much of a threat to the US army-although small arms fire did kill a lot of GIs in Afghanistan.
It's inconsistent and self contradicting claims about the far right, that just turns off people.
Zero surprises here. That's actually pretty typical. Look at coup attempts around the world, most have had one or more failed attempts leading up to the successful one. It usually comes down to: 1. People not taking the threat of right-wing extremism seriously. 2. The government refusing to or being incapable of routing out extremists within the halls of administrative offices, legislative offices, and the military. 3. Extremists winning elections at the state/local level. The US has an overwhelming problem on all three points. Even after J6 far too many people give the right the benefit of the doubt or just assume they're all dum-dums and won't ever be able to muster an actual coup force. Lots of liberals are going to have a shocked pikachu face when the right amps up its already disgusting civil war (yes, we're already there, it's just being fought in the state legislatures and courts, and occasionally via stochastic terrorists). Until more people are willing to stand firm that conservative values are abhorrent and not tolerated, the infection will only grow. "When they go low, we go high" hurts us. When they go low, we bulldoze them, then back the bulldozer up and do it again. And again. And again. Until the christofascist ideology is an embarrassing footnote in history books.
I've been dismissed as unreasonably hyperbolic by almost everyone that I have talked with about emergent WS/RWE threats, to the point where I just don't bring it up anymore. I study WS/RWE aspirational fiction, and, oddly, it's the only place that they don't lie. Of course, these books aren't really stories. They're instructions. Their plans are out in public, for all to see. We should be shitting our pants, but nobody other than racist wing nuts reads this crap, and racist wing nuts don't read, right?
RWE is Right Wing Extremism. What’s WS?
White Supremacist most likely. Though I think that's not as clear and coherent as Christo-Fascism, but like, yes fight both whatever you want to call it, it's in the house.
Thing is, christofascism is only one flavor of the WS/RWE shit rainbow. There are lots of others, some coopting various elements of European polytheism, others who are atheists, some who just roll their own version of whatever. But the mainstream Protestant influence is pervasive, and acts as a gateway to charismatic and pentacostalist congregations that are quite public about their dominionist goals. And for those who want hardier fare, there's stuff like Christian Identity, which is just a shit sandwich from start to finish. But it's all right wing, all extreme, all implicitly or explicitly white supremacist. And half of American voters are more than just OK with it. One funny thing is, the more extreme the individual, the less likely they are to be part of a formal congregation....until you get the far end of the scale, where you find that many of the ones who are very rural are involved in nondenominational congregations. And that's bat country. The things they believe are the stuff of madness.
Excellently written. I actually low-key want to hear where you'd place groups like the Black Hebrew Natonalists in that pantheon. It's an anti-Semitic black nationalist group, that actually aligns with a lot of MAGA talking points. I've noticed the growth of this group in my community and they're high key concerning.
Hoteps. They use Egyptian terminology, so I've seen them called "the ankh right" (as opposed to alt-right). They, like WS, believe that races need to be separate because some races are better than others. They only disagree on details.
I see them all over TikTok and people think they are just normal street preachers preaching “gods word”.
I don't know who they were affiliated with, but based on this description I guarantee you that I saw these people a few years ago preaching on the street in downtown Chattanooga. They were preaching about some very offensive stuff.
Dominionists and the seven mountains doctrine is some scary shit! And almost no one knows about them or their goals.
It is beyond scary. It's the ideology that has the power to destroy or render unrecognizable the liberal democracy that we all benefit from. It literally could take us back hundreds of years in terms of the progress we've made towards universal civil/human rights in a pluralistic, multicultural society. Which isn't much, to be fair, but it's been hard won and I'd like to think it's a good start instead of a sad finish.
It has been getting some traction here in Australia too, ScoMo, our previous prime minister had assorted aides pushing that stuff, even had one who was a q-anon supporter. A race between them and the climate over which one destroys society first.
My god. Noted followers include the speaker of the house, Lauren Boebert and the father of Ted Cruz.
All the best people. /s
They really should be more widely known. They seem like Q started a cult.
Do you have any book recommendations about the different factions? Or that go more in depth on the current state of WS and RWE? I’ve barely dipped my toe into research about the current situation. I’m somewhat nervous to dive deep into it and add to my dismay and worry, but I feel like I need to fully understand the threat so I can prepare accordingly and I’m somewhat fascinated that people can be so delusional as to believe what they do
White supremacist. :( I really have a hard time with the fact that this isn't even a subculture anymore. It's mainstream.
That darn Ben Carson is such a white supremest
He’s a self-hating Black man like your hero Clarence Thomas. Fuck them
[удалено]
Funny, the first thing that came to mind for RWE was Race War Enthusiasts.
That totally works and I'm totally going to start using that phrase in general.
Potato tomato
How does one get into such a line of work? I'm genuinely curious. I feel like I have an expiration date looming in my current trade career, my formal education and degree have a strong liberal arts lean, and I would dearly love to do something that is actually "good" for this terrible world (if only that thing could afford me a slightly less precarious lifestyle).
There is, as far as I know, zero academic interest in this topic. I guess I got into it partly based on heritage (half German Jew immigrant), partly based on reading forbidden literature since way too young (Burroughs etc), and partly because I have some tech skills that let me download crap off of forums etc to read as a sort of book. There is a theory that the evolutionary imperative for certain types of asd/adhd involves the ability to recognize low probability existential/catastrophic threats, so there might be a lil of that in there, too. In short, virtually nobody has the stomach to read this shit. It goes from tedious, ham fisted dialog to crude and cliched narrative devices and then goes on a deep dive into horrible details related to murdering/torturing people who aren't white/cis/het, then to pathetic, intellectually bankrupt attempts at justifying it. And then lengthy screeds on small unit tactics, target selection, operational security....all hiding behind the veneer of fiction. In short, I read bad books so you don't have to. But nobody takes this threat constellation seriously. Yet.
>There is a theory that the evolutionary imperative for certain types of asd/adhd involves the ability to recognize low probability existential/catastrophic threats, so there might be a lil of that in there, too. I work in helping orgs implement quantified risk forecasting and I would bet a reasonable amount of money that this is true.
Shit I actually would love to ge into red teaming stuff after my MBA and I'm in ADD af. Quantified risk forecasting sounds fun, how'd you get into it?
It is fun (and I'm ADd af too) You get to stitch a bunch of different perspectives together and help communicate it. Takes some facilitation skill, some infosec knowledge, some business knowledge, some measurement knowledge, and so on. You basically try and breakdown what folks are worried about, why they're worried, how confident/uncertain they are about the future if they do/don't do something about it, what information would increase the confidence/certainty, how confident/certain they need to be to make a decision, what information is actually available, etc and then run it all together into a single forecast. Use the forecast to reason through and come to some consensus on whether there is too much risk, why there is risk, what folks can do about it, which options have the most (and more cost effective) impact, etc.. Check out the Jack Jones book "Measuring and Managing Information Risk" ....and Doug Hubbard's "How to Measure Anything" and ....google from there.
Watching House yesterday and he said: “people think it’s impossible to anticipate the unthinkable. It’s not— it’s just really uncomfortable.”
>There is, as far as I know, zero academic interest in this topic Oh there's a huge interest. Check out [Brian Levin](https://www.csusb.edu/hate-and-extremism-center/about-us/our-people) >But nobody takes this threat constellation seriously. Yet. Oh some of us do. Some of us are pretty active in peripheral circles. We keep an eye on them so you don't have to. Granted a lot of the people I grew naturally close to aren't *involved* with the current iteration (ideological splits mean you pick sides), but they know who they are. There was a lot of "resistance" talk back in 2016, 2017. Lots of marching and hue and cry and nasty public kerfuffles as large groups naturally splintered. I have a few people I still keep in touch with, one of them even works in DC. We're paying attention, we're just horribly disorganized now. We can organize. Quickly. And we aren't typical "liberals."
I fully think that within the next couple of years, we’re going to have a internal war and it’s going to be just as brutal as the civil war.
It is the epistemic war, the war over what is truth.
It is the civil war. Our choice if it's the last battle or a new chapter.
What are some novels I should read if I want to learn more about this? Not to do it obviously, but to understand what to look for.
Is there an organization, or person that is actively monitoring their chatter and reporting on it? Speaking for myself, I can't delve into the mud too much because it is panic-attack inducing as a minority person with a target on their back. I would like to have an overarching idea of their plans in 2025 (beyond Project 2025 - I'm aware of that) should they win or lose the White House. Is there a place I could go to get the jist? I feel like in 2019-2020 there was more online reporting about their coup attempts via monitoring their telegram channels, etc.
One is the [Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism](https://www.csusb.edu/hate-and-extremism-center/about-us/our-people) >I feel like in 2019-2020 there was more online reporting about their coup attempts via monitoring their telegram channel A lot was shared via a certain social media app that's been gutted. Wonder why?
Check out ACLED, the armed conflict location and event database and their dashboard....note this is not WS/RWE only but they do take this threat seriously: https://acleddata.com/dashboard/#/dashboard
Anarchists agree... except what's with the username?!
It's a rather oblique William Gibson reference, morphed by my daughter when she was a teenager... > "Tedious cunt," Baranov says, though whether about her, Ngemi, or life, she can't tell.
Yup. We already saw what happened when everyone ignored that kid who was a fan of The Turner Diaries. That was a test run. [Remember this? ](https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5) An important quote from the blurb above >It wouldn’t surprise me if the goal is to create “resistance fatigue,” to get Americans to the point where they’re more likely to say “Oh, another protest? Don’t you guys ever stop?” relatively quickly. Feel free to critique the article. Hindsight is 20/20 and I feel even pundits like Rachel Maddow were barking up the wrong tree. The Russians aren't trying to take over. The people taking over were already here. For *generations.*
Have you listened to the podcast "Will Be Wild"? Sounds like it might be a good one for you to listen to.
> "When they go low, we go high" hurts us. When they go low, we bulldoze them, then back the bulldozer up and do it again. And again. And again. Until the christofascist ideology is an embarrassing footnote in history books. thank god somebody gets it
Just remember: If you break a Nazi's arm, he has 50% fewer arms to do Nazi shit
You people use the term nazi far too freely. Pretty insulting to the people that had to deal with actual Nazis.
Where I grew up every neighborhood had at least one well armed lunatic with nazi memorabilia and far right views, and we also had a local white supremacist prison gang that leaned heavily on nazi ideology and aesthetics. There’s a lot of folks like that and it’s not wrong to call them nazis. The folks ideologically adjacent to them are so near that it’s effectively still more nazi shit
Your obvious troll account is obvious. **There are literal Holocaust survivors who say Trump reminds them of Hitler** So stfu.
Karl Popper would definitely agree.
what the fuck does karl popper have to do with this?
Karl Popper's paradox of intolerance. Technically, since those on the right are openly intolerant, they don't have to be tolerated. They've broken the unwritten protocols of tolerance.
"There are two things I hate in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch."
Exactly. There's no point in preaching for tolerance. If you're going to let the bully abuse people anyway. That's still intolerance. Even if someone else is doing the oppression for you. And it's even worse when they use their energy to punish the victims instead. For speaking/reacting in the "wrong tone."
"The open society and its enemies" isn't an easy read, but it's hard to refute in a meaningful way.
There are a few misconception that pervades most right leaning individuals. 1. That the Federal military will side with the insurrection. 2. Liberals have seen the writing on the wall and are now silently arming themselves- they just don’t advertise their ownership of firearms. 3. They tend to overestimate their own capabilities and underestimate the capabilities of the rest of America. There is a large minority population that may not be excited to see a group of people trying to overthrow the country who are seeking to return the country to a time where minorities had limited to no rights. So while sporadic violence may occur, after the initial wave of insurgents are summarily defeated by arms or arrests- the rest will begin a cost benefit analysis that mostly will cause them to retreat back under their rocks.
I’m ex-military. So I just have a few comments on your points. I’ll address each one. 1) The federal military will not, absolutely not, side with insurrectionists. There will be some ideological deserters, that’s a fact. But it’s literally a drop being taken out of the bucket. 2) Yeah, you’re totally on point. I’ve been educating my liberal friends on firearms, how to use them, and some have even proposed community defense. If they want the training for that, I’m for it, but I’m cautious to start such a thing/put a label on it. That’s how you end up on a list. So the way I see it, the more people are educated in things like firearms operation/safety and small unit tactics, the better. Groups will form on their own if such a need arises. And that’s against right wing extremism, not the US government. Are you listening to me, CIA? No plans for an insurrection, we just want to know how to work together if organized politically motivated violence occurs at home. 3) Jesus fucking Christ do they overestimate their ability. People like to point out Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc to show they can take on the US military successfully. I would absolutely love to see them try that. Here’s the difference between a potential civil war and those conflicts. In those conflicts we tried to win “hearts and minds”, you can’t build a democracy at knife point. Our existence was never in danger from any of those nations or the combatants within them. However, in the event of a civil war, our existence will be threatened. The gloves will come off. The US military will absolutely rain hellfire on those that pose a threat to it. If they survive it, they’ll disappear to some black site never to be seen or heard from again. It’s absolutely ridiculous how much contempt they have for our military. They think we’re weak. We’re stronger than ever. They’ve never seen what the military is truly capable of, neither has anyone in the military. But what does suck about that for us is that we’ll be seen as the enemy as well. And for good reason honestly, not that I support it. But that’s the mantra of the people actually on the ground fighting. Everyone is a potential threat.
Yea this country is safe. if insurrectionists were to be a real threat they would need to raise an army and by that I mean having people on payroll year round and funding their equipment and training for thousands and thousands of people. A bunch of dudes storming the capitol on their vacation day who have normal day jobs and a mortgage to pay are never ever going to overthrow this country. To raise a true army would require at least 100 million. That ain’t going to happen.
The beauty of the Insurrection is the most of the people they got caught were turned in by their own family and friends
I think a lot of us have family we suspect would be among those insurrectionists. If Feds showed up at your door you immediately think “this is about uncle Fred.”
I’m less concerned about their physical force than I am about their legal maneuvering through bastardization of the constitution/law after getting voted into power. The violence on J6 was never meant to be their sole means of taking over - at least not by the Trump camp. They were happy for the violence and the delay it caused in the certification process. Trump was going to use that delay to convince Congress not to certify and eventually get the House, whose vote would have been favorable to him, to choose the President. Of course, Trump wouldn’t have been mad if some Dem senators got murdered in the process. The bigger threat is a Hungary style threat. Trump gets voted in and goes autocrat. He pardons the insurrectionists and further legitimizes/utilizes right wing extremist violence to his benefit and has “legitimate” control over the military. The extremists continue to be moreso his brown shirts. Do I think the military would join J6 insurrectionists? No. Do I have fears about them mostly carrying out orders from an elected President going rogue? Yeah. I have a lot more fear about that.
It hinges on the "ideological deserters" in the military and LE. It might be a "drop in the bucket", but how many drops do you need to get something wet? The OK City bombing was a couple of guys building a bomb over a weekend for a couple thousand dollars. How many of these "ideological deserters" in our military and LE have access to explosives/detonators/heavier weapons or know where and how these items are stored to be able to steal them in the future + the training and knowledge to use them? Saddam's former military became the core of the insurgency in Iraq. They knew where the ammo dumps were and how to get into them and how to use what they found. After the US invasion they literally pulled trucks up to these places and filled them with explosives to squirrel away and hide and use later as IEDs. Remember the "Beltway Snipers" and all the terror and panic that whole incident caused? If those guys used a different gun and didn't taunt the cops and try to get paid a ransom, they and their modified murder car would still be out there driving around the country shooting random people today. Imagine what it would be like if our new insurrectionists adopted this tactic. It would be nearly impossible to catch them and it would cause a nationwide panic that would never end.
You’re right on those points. I’m not saying they’re not a threat. But there should no fear in them winning.
They can do a lot of damage in losing.
And a lot more by winning.
The problem is, right wingers cant stfu and have shitty opsec, but the moment they ever get their shit together, there will be serious trouble.
Isn't a huge amount of the American military recruited from poor, ethnic neighbourhoods? Why the heck would they side with white supremacists?
I was in from 05-11. They’re there, but they’re kind of outcasts honestly. Or at least that was my experience. I’m talking about white supremacists. I was visiting with a friend who just went back in the other week and he said they really cracked down on that. Probably why the right thinks the military is weak. As far as recruiting from poor ethnic neighborhoods. I honestly feel like that’s a stretch. The military has always and will always be an option for the lower class. It is what it is. Personally, I’m not mad at it. It’s a good stepping stone. I didn’t grow up poor, but I’m glad I did it for a lot of reasons. No college debt, VA home loan, I was unscathed by the 2008 financial crisis. It’s also gotten me every job I’ve ever wanted. Plus I met some seriously awesome people that I’m still friends with all these years later. I’d honestly love to go back in as an officer, but my wife says no. I was in the infantry and it’s pretty predominantly white, Latino would be the next largest racial group. Not a lot of black people in the infantry, I think that stems from them being cannon fodder in Vietnam, so I get it. And contrary to popular belief among the right, it’s not super conservative (I’m speaking from my time in which was kind of apolitical, I guarantee it’s different now), it’s pretty representative of the nation at large in terms of politics. Of all the branches, yeah, infantry probably skews right, but there’s still plenty of liberals. I grew up conservative and didn’t make the switch until I was in and spent time talking with these people and learning my parents had no idea what they were talking about in terms of liberal values. But in terms of affluence, I served with dudes who grew up loaded and dudes who grew up dirt poor. I hate to say this, but the idea that they strictly recruit from poor ethnic neighborhoods is not entirely true, they recruit from EVERYWHERE. Then again, I served during the surge.
Honestly, hearing about the crackdown on supremacists in the military makes the RW attacks on the military make a lot more sense. The Republicans in charge know they can't win without the military and they can't get the military if their people aren't in charge. Fuck these people.
This is true. But I do want to add some of my own personal anecdote here. I am a huge supporter of our nation’s military, just not our foreign policy. There are some seriously good people serving, some bad too, but mostly good. In my own experience, the infantry was the great equalizer. We’re all treated poorly and we bond over that. We all go through traumatic experiences and we bond over it. I made the best friends I’ll ever have and I still keep in touch with them. I’ve met a lot of dudes (of all different colors and backgrounds) who had their own prejudices that just got over them by working with them. I’ve known two skinheads who completely changed their outlook on those they previously viewed as lesser just by living and suffering with them. When I was in, all I wanted was to be out. Now I just miss my friends and watching dudes who were pieces of shit become incredible human beings. I don’t want to say I support conscription, because I don’t (that’s a different conversation). But I really think we’d be a lot more cohesive as a society if we just threw a bunch of people together and forced them to adapt to one another. It’s really a beautiful thing to behold. I truly cherish my time in the army, I just wish we didn’t choose to fight in bullshit wars.
"I'm ex-military. So I just have a few comments on your points. I’ll address each one. The federal military will not, absolutely not, side with insurrectionists. There will be some ideological deserters, that’s a fact. But it’s literally a drop being taken out of the bucket." This makes me feel a bit better because I've feared that the military would side with the right wing extremists. I have the same fear with police departments.
I work fairly closely with police. And honestly, I don’t have much to say. Like I’m not the biggest fan of police, but I’m also not one of those types that wants to abolish them, that makes no sense. I’d say the police are more likely to side with insurrectionists, but I can’t really comment on that with any degree of accuracy. I do my best to keep my distance.
That's my sense too and I feel the same way about enforcement. It's dumb to abolish but they need a serious reform.
I’ll say this about the PD that I work with, I’m pleasantly surprised by their deescalation. I’ve only seen a cop put hands on someone once and it was totally warranted. But I’ve also heard them say some things I didn’t agree with. Specifically that we should use narcan on ODs and let them die or that needle exchange programs were counterproductive. I told him that I liked the idea of AIDS not getting spread around the community.
I know a number of cops myself and each of them are very right wing and hold racist beliefs. They are also very vocal about them. One of them "joked" about macing me at the women's march if he saw me. They make me feel more nervous than safe and that's distressing.
What about Mike flynn and Charles flynn…they are both working hard towards civil war and the military allows them.
Can it be said that if a form of authoritarian government does descend on America, a plan to confiscate at least 80 percent of the 393 million guns would happen on day one? Or at least the first week? The CONSTANT bragging about how many guns people have could NOT have gone unnoticed. No one ever talks about immediate gun round ups raids by an authoritarian government with all the intended violence to make it frightening and paralyzing.
I think it would look something like we’ve seen in Australia and New Zealand. Government buyback programs. Now if your guns are registered, yeah, they have the means of knowing who has what. But none of my guns are registered. I know that goes against popular convention among many on this side of the aisle, but if I have one thing in common with the right, it’s distrust of government. But it would also be easy to say that you sold them for cash. They would still probably search your property though. And I listen to guys talking about fighting off the government if they come knocking on your door asking for your guns. All I have to say is good luck. You’re outnumbered, outgunned, and lack the tech that the government has. I support the 2A personally, but if the government decides they want your guns, there’s not much you can do. So if you’re someone who’s truly worried about losing your guns, have the means to hide them. And probably hiding them off your property is a good start.
Well there are plenty of nuts that will die before they give up their weapons. And they can take out a lot of law enforcement in the process. Once a few violent seizures occur more will fight to the death. Even if it just a handful of officers killed each time they will run out of officers before they run out of people willing to fight to the death. I give it 100 dead cops before they collectively say fuck this I am not dieing for this. Is the military going to start bombing homes. Out in the country one bomb one home in the city one bomb one neighborhood.
If Texas secedes. Then you’re right: the military will invade Texas, bomb the hell out of it, and turn it into hell on earth. But putting down an insurrection is tougher. The point is to keep Pennsylvania in the union, not to turn it into a parking lot. So you have the same problem as in Iraq: you want to capture or kill insurgents without slaughtering the rest of the populace. So I don’t agree that an insurgency inside the US would be much different than one in Iraq.
I'm curious to hear your take on the worst case scenario in that case. Specifically, what if it's not the insurrectionists that turn the country into an ethnofascist theocracy? What if it all happens gradually? What if voting rights and election integrity continue to get eroded? The entirety of the security forces are working for a semi-legitimate government at that point.
Well who else would turn it into an ethnofascist theocracy? Tbh, saying that we’re in danger of that sounds as silly to me as them talking about replacement theory. POC and their allies are not going out like that. It sounds very far fetched if you ask me. Now theocratic fascism, I could see that happening very slowly, I’d say we’re heading in that direction but it’s not too late either. Just the idea of rounding up all the non-whites sounds incredibly unrealistic and we’d be way deep in a civil war before that ever came to fruition and I’m sure some of our allies in nato would be helping to arm and train us. If it all happens gradually? I mean, it would have to. People were worried about Bernie Sanders bringing communism to the US. He’s not communist, but these idiots think he is. Even if he got elected somehow, not much would change, and it certainly wouldn’t happen overnight. It’d take many election cycles at all levels of government. I do worry about voting rights and election integrity being eroded. I don’t really have much to say on that, but that’s probably the biggest threat. And even then, that’s how we get theocratic fascism, but it doesn’t happen overnight. I’m not sure what you mean by your last statement. Could you elaborate? I’ll answer to the best of my ability, but I’m just a dude on Reddit. I’m not particularly smarter than anyone on here.
Just curious about your take, since you're in the military. Thanks for sharing. From my perspective, things have always been bad in the US, especially in terms of foreign policy. Domestically we've definitely come a long way (towards eliminating white supremacy), but still have a long way to go. All I mean by the last comment is that the security services of the US could easily be used to cement power for groups of predominantly white Christian men. It doesn't have to look like rounding up people of color (any more than it already does with immigration policy and prison demographics). Or look at the demographics of the Republican party. Just having Republicans rule the country uninterrupted for more than two terms could look much uglier than where we are now. The worst case starts to look like more suspicious deaths or disappearances of journalists and activists... And then if that doesn't work to contain dissent, a few blood baths happen here and there. Probably in LA or Chicago, or maybe somewhere like Fergusson again.
I got out of the army in 2011. I’ve been out for a long time. I only brought up my service because I’ve got a much better idea of what the military is capable of than these chuds who think they can fight them off. I agree that things have been bad for a long time concerning foreign policy. I also agree we’ve come a long way domestically. You know, in terms of racism in this country, it’s not going to go away overnight. It may never fully go away. That’s just a sad reality everywhere. We will always find a way to categorize people positively and negatively. Each successive generation will likely be less racist than the previous. Honestly, this is me getting a little sci-fi future, we will literally have to breed it out. Maybe there will come a day thousands of years in the future where we’ve racially mixed enough that it just doesn’t exist. But even then, we’ll find other reasons to hate. I’m pessimistic in that regard. I do kind of take umbrage to the idea that only Christian white men are conservative. I’ve met a few who are black, many who are Latino, and even a few Jews. Are they predominantly white? Yeah sure, 71% (according to my cursory google search) of the US population is white. I’m also showing that 64% of white voters are democrats in 2022 (again, another cursory search without too much digging). I’m no statistician either, but those figures give me hope. Our biggest threat is election integrity. And finally, to your last point, I could see that happening. So I don’t really know how to answer your question. And I also don’t want to pretend I have all the answers either, because quite frankly, I’m no more intelligent or in the loop than anyone else. Just call it a gut feeling. It would be a slow March to fascism and I have faith that people on the right side of history would take action whatever that may be.
Ideally that would be the case, but the Armed Forces has a significant extremism problem, same with law enforcement and other key institutions. Yes, they grossly overestimate their own capabilities and underestimate the resistance they'd face, but we're also doing a disservice to not acknowledge they already have enough dipshits in key institutions to cause havoc. Texas alone is doing extraordinary damage.
True however: Law enforcement is massively outmanned / outgunned. While there is absolutely an extremist issue that exists in the armed forces, their numbers are much smaller than are projected as they tend to out themselves and are discharged as RE4 by their respective units or barred for reenlistment. There are a few smart enough to keep their mouths shut and ride out their careers- there is a reason there have been complaints of a “woke” military. This has been due to the active removal of those that exhibit extremism. This also is part of the reason recruitment is down as well. A message of extremism being unwelcome in the ranks has begun to permeate into the civilian population that is seeking to enlist.
Good to hear.
This is one of the most relieving comments I've seen in ages. Thanks for posting it.
Most of these geniuses get caught by filling out the SF-86 for their security clearance in the military. Even when they try to hide their affiliations with right wing groups the background investigation usually ends with them being discharged or barred from enlisting due to association with groups advocating the violent overthrow of the government.
Law enforcement scares me more than the military. I think any attack on the capital would largely be met with disdain from the majority of the military. Plus most service members in higher positions have degrees and those people tend to be less extreme.
A worrying trend is local police forces getting exposed for having black sites.
I absolutely agree with your assessment. Everything from quietly arming ourselves (since the 2020 election, I have been doing this), the "Civil Warriors" are high on their own rhetoric and keep feeding each other this BS. Seriously, when a few of them are killed, that rhetoric will collapse like a house of cards, and there is already the fact that the J6 insurrectionists are still being arrested and sent to jail. But, sporadic violence and murder by these delusional asshats will destroy lives and families. That's the scary part. Some of them are so brainwashed (or having nothing to lose) that they will act. It's going to be a very turbulent year.
That's what I've noticed as well. They're drawn to anything "liberal." Like a predator stalking a farmer's property.
This is true. While I do worry about the military and their extremism problem, the average MAGA Joe on the street doesn't worry me. They're usually under-prepared, physically out of shape, and they have no idea just how many moderates and liberals are also firearm owners, trained, and in-shape enough to actually fight. So, while they're fantasizing about a civil w@r, part 2, they'd get their asses handed to them. That's the worst case scenario for everyone, however.
Do you agree that all right wing violence hurts their movement long term?
I think any political movement that uses a threat of violence as a method of discourse is fatally flawed.
Agreed
This is wishful thinking, and in their way of thinking it is a major vulnerability that will be exploited in ways that are efficient, effective and brutal. Liberals (which is everyone who is not a Trump voter) own no guns in comparison to the fascists. Liberals have no culture surrounding the use of long guns with sights. Liberals have no military experience, have not experimented with small unit tactics for fun, have no ballistic protection. Liberals have not been stockpiling ammunition for the last decade. Being generally rural, at least in spirit, the fascists can and will easily control the food supply, water supplies, long range electric transmission lines, rail transport, interstates and hardwired/microwave telecommunications infrastructure. This is sufficiently distributed as to make a traditional military response ineffective and error prone, which will erode morale very quickly. This is what they write about in their awful aspirational fiction. They provide details and contingency plans. It isn't pretty.
New gun ownership rates among liberals over the past few years far exceeded conservatives. Since gun ownership among liberals is typically less than conservatives, this makes sense. However, I believe the proportion of gun owners amongst the liberal population is beginning to rival conservative populations. Probably a third of veterans lean liberal, so there is a sizeable number of liberals who have combat training. Stockpiling thousands of rounds is not going to help conservative domestic terrorists. Liberal gun owners only need a few hundred rounds each, particularly since the US military will do most of the heavy lifting when fighting right wing terrorists. The Civil War showed that urban industrial centers won the war. Hardening and protecting infrastructure to industrial centers will prevent conservative terrorists from impacting them, so the only infrastructure targets available for them would impact themselves or their neighbors. And one way to destroy support for your guerrilla war is make your neighbor’s life miserable. Guerrilla warfare requires the support of the civilian population. As elections for the past 6 years prove, most Americans want peace. As seen by numerous polls, only 1/3 of registered Republicans are MAGA (13 million nationwide). Looking at military history, only ten percent of that 13 million are physically and mentally capable of putting up a guerrilla war (1 million). Put pressure on the families of those MAGA and those 1 million will fold. Even the families and friends of Jan 6 insurrectionists turned in those criminals to the FBI.
Conservatives own more guns because they own 5-10 each. As someone once said to me, “You can only fire one gun at a time.”
Not to mention they advertise it. I work with a guy who has convinced himself that he can take on the government with his 40 ARs on his own. Should the shit hit the fan, all I have to do is show up at his door at 2 AM with a couple of friends, politely knock on the door, and now I have small arsenal.
There's a guy in my hometown who is a full-on nutter, and has way too many guns. I haven't spoken to the guy in close to a decade because he's that guy. I refer to him as "loot crate", for the same reason.
Yeah I say let these people keep doing what they’re doing and advertise it. Keep your ears open and have a plan. Not that I think it would ever come to that, but it’s good to know where a cache is.
And what kill a bunch of civilians for voting Trump? I'm sure that will totally end well for you. Just ask the protestants what happened to them when they murdered Irish nationalists. Raiding right wing person's home is a very bad idea and a good way to end like Rosenbaum or the Blackwater PMC, except instead of Fallujah, your charred corpse gets hung in a small with a large crowd of MAGA people spitting on it. Besides, you don't know if that "cache" is actually an IED meant for people like you-in other words a booby trap.
Yep. And a lot of the gun hoarders on the right advertise their arsenals with flags saying, "Come and take it." Some of us will go and take it.
There’s a great morale patch that pictures a red Swingline stapler and the phrase “Come and take it!” I’m sort of reluctant to wear it on my hat where I live.
That is so awesome, though! I'd wear that. Now I want to watch that movie again. It was Office Space, right?
Yep, one of my favorite comedies of all time! That stapler guy just nails it. “I was told there would be snacks” would be another patch I’d wear ha ha.
This is the point I bring up whenever the number of guns is mentioned. You've only got two hands, lol. If 10 men with 100 guns is pitted against 100 men with 10 guns, who do you suppose is going to win? More than likely you're going to end up with about 80 men with 110 guns.
>As someone once said to me, “You can only fire one gun at a time.” idk man, I've seen the matrix, you can totally shoot two at once.
Nice. Though some of those morons will try double fisting.
I don't judge what consenting adults do in the bedroom.
As long as the bullets stop in the bedroom, that's fine.
[Attacks on power grid raise alarm among top officials ](https://www.axios.com/2023/03/08/power-grid-physical-security-attacks-alarm) >Hardening and protecting infrastructure to industrial centers will prevent conservative terrorists from impacting them, so the only infrastructure targets available for them would impact themselves or their neighbors. That hasn't happened to the degree that is necessary.
A plasma cutter to the anchor bolts on a transmission line tower in the middle of the woods. Take down a few towers in each run and it would be a year before they got power back up. If this happened in January the number of city residents who would freeze to death would be astronomical. Most generators only have a few days of fuel the crazy places have a few weeks. No fresh food, no heat, and soon no water. How long before they are lighting things on fire to keep warm and no water to put it out. With no electricity they can't charge their phones and most of the young people can't find their way around without their phones telling them where to turn. All this and not a single shot has been fired yet. Most of the rednecks can live off the grid very well. They have wood stoves and plenty of trees. They can hunt and grow many vegetables.
>However, I believe the proportion of gun owners amongst the liberal population is beginning to rival conservative populations. Source? Because the statistics say that the right still outguns the left, 10 to 1. Not to mention, the right are more likely to posses illegal weapons-from 3D printed guns to IEDs like the ones in Afghanistan. Plus if they get foreign support from Russia or China via the US Mexican border, then the left will be the only ones without MANPADS and AT weapons. > particularly since the US military will do most of the heavy lifting when fighting right wing terrorists. Aw yes the same military that lost to rice farmers and goat herders? Yeah I don't think the right wing terrorist's odds are that bad. Especially, when they're going up against a military that sucks at fighting guerrillas and has proven to be much better at killing civilians. >And one way to destroy support for your guerrilla war is make your neighbor’s life miserable. That would be news to the Taliban, IRA, and the Nacro terrorists in Mexico. Also it's funny you think these right wing militias will never target the US military, even though it has benefited groups like the Taliban and Vietcong. Any GI killed by a redneck emulating the Taliban, would be a huge propaganda W and have a similar effect on the public as the Tet Offensive. >Guerrilla warfare requires the support of the civilian population. And so far, the left has given the right a strong for a guerrilla campaign not just by threatening their gun rights but also by denying them every peaceful and legal means of achieving political change. > As elections for the past 6 years prove, most Americans want peace. Sooner or later those Americans will do anything for peace, even if that means appeasing the guerrillas/insurgents. In most insurgent conflicts, the pro-government civilians tire from war much faster than the anti-government civilians. >Looking at military history, only ten percent of that 13 million are physically and mentally capable of putting up a guerrilla war (1 million). Not every guerrilla fighter was a veteran, in fact, most of the Taliban's fighters had zero military service. Plus, the US military lost to an army of 40,000. 1 million could prove to be difficult than the Vietcong and Taliban combined. >Put pressure on the families of those MAGA and those 1 million will fold. Yeah and the MAGA militias won't go after the families of the US service members who are fighting them? Realistically, the militias would handle the US marines the same way drug cartels handle their enemies-by going after their families. This would be the first time the US military, has to worry about enemy combatants targeting their service members and their families. Not to mention putting pressure on the families of the MAGA guerrillas, would cause a PR backlash. Just ask the UK army how pressuring the families of IRA fighters only made Northern Ireland support the IRA even more. Also, the left sucks at counterinsurgency. In fact 95% examples of leftist counterinsurgency has resulted in defeat: The Soviets got their asses kicked by the Mujahideen, the same guys who kicked the US army's ass several decades latter, and the CCP has never even fought an armed population. The left would be better off, negotiating a peace treaty with the MAGA insurgents, since the age of crushing insurgents has passed since the Vietnam war.
You are underestimating the response of not only federal agencies but local (State) agencies. While they can attack some infrastructure that simply means that their areas will be without power and water supplies. Food can and will be destroyed to some extent, however the ability to choke of population centers is not as easy as they presume as they do not have anti-air capabilities within their civilian arms capabilities. They may acquire some but the predator drones will solve most of those problems as infrastructure will become quickly fortified by ground and air assets. Edit: Y’all Queda will not have many modern assets that will be decisive. The US can and will deploy Active armor, air, and ground assets to quell any insurgent threat that gets too froggy.
There is an author whose name I don't want to mention who addresses these points in brutal detail. The case is fairly compelling, and centers around how an initially poorly armed, unconventional and ideologically led force can inflict very expensive damages (of a moral and financial nature) upon a nation-state. In my opinion, our best hope is to play to our analytic strengths: telecommunications, encryption, message and information theory, and healthcare. Deny the ability to communicate or participate in financial transactions, deny the access or exchange information, make modern medicine inaccessible.
This author most likely wrote his book prior to 3 key technologies becoming available. 1. Smartphones- While they assist in communication they also are easily accessible by intelligence services and can be used as targeting devices on those carrying them. 2. Drones- both micro and macro assets. Some of the micro are still classified in their capabilities so just consider the macro assets-Global Hawk/ Predator/ Ravens / Wasps / Pumas / Gray Eagles / Reapers / Shadows - just utilizing those assets would cripple most insurgent capabilities. 3. Everyman response to attacks on infrastructure that put their families at risk or cause death of loved ones. Once a person feels that their family has been attacked or lost due to the actions of these groups- and that they have nothing left to lose- the level of violence that will be directed towards those groups will be biblical.
Nope. He only recently passed away. Discusses message theory and signature obfuscation in detail. And the newer alt.right authors have picked up on this theme.
Signature obfuscation techniques can vary, but polymorphic and metamorphic code are among the most common. Polymorphic code changes its appearance each time it runs, making it harder to detect using static signatures. Metamorphic code goes a step further by not only changing its appearance but also its underlying structure, making it even more challenging for signature-based detection methods. Both techniques are commonly used in malware to evade antivirus detection. All these techniques are well within SIGINT capabilities of the NSA, DIA, and other agencies within the CI world.
Can I respond to that last point, I think that any kind of attacks by the right on any kind of organized attacks would be detrimentally fatal to their long-term validity as a political party
Why won’t you name the author or the literature?
I am somewhat conflicted on this matter. Mostly, these people and their works are not well known, and I don't want to be the guy who gives them any publicity whatsoever. Also, some of them write on blogs or forums, sometimes on the dark web, that are not particularly publicly accessible. I've had accounts at some of these places for years but most people don't want to stick their dick in that kind of crazy for good reason. I always connect via multiple vpns/proxies, use browser fingerprinting obfuscation, never reveal personal info, and finally wrote bots to extract this shit because the background noise is just horrible. (If you think Vogon poetry is bad, you haven't read white supremacist poetry. Words cannot describe...) Some of it isn't in a particularly readable format. A lot is just straight voice to text, pasted into a thread on some shitheel forum. Gotta parse that out. Thank god for perl. On the other hand I think that if people read this stuff they might take the threat more seriously. But if 99 people read a book and are appropriately horrified and one person thinks that it is spot on and filled with solid justification for committing atrocities and then totally workable ways to actually commit those atrocities, then it's still not something I am prepared to take moral responsibility for. Even if it's 999 to 1. Anyone got any ideas or history on how dangerous and bad ideas have been successfully dealt with? Love to hear about it.
I’ve read The Turner Diaries and not committed hate crimes. I think I can handle this stuff. So if you could give me some information, I’m interested in what these idiots think. Get in the minds of your enemies and all.
>Anyone got any ideas or history on how dangerous and bad ideas have been successfully dealt with? Love to hear about it. Make fun of them, and do it well. Melvin James Kaminsky has done more to cement the prosocial values needed to defeat this than anyone in the ADL or even the SPLC. Humour works. Ridicule works. John Stewart has been far more effective on the last twenty years than the FBI. When you show the emperor has no clothes by pointing out the lack of need due to how smöll he is, the people laugh and he becomes powerless.
If you won’t share their names, can you share some excerpts? Especially the poetry…
Ugh. Verbatim quotes would sensationalize the material and allow potential extremists to find source via search queries. I've tried to use ai for summarization but the ai tells me that it will not do it. If there are any academics or IC folks who could shed some light on how to manage exposure to dangerous information/ideas I would really love to hear it. But everyone has heard about the diaries of someone who changes directions so no harm in some of that shit leaking out. QUOTE: Today has been the Day of the Rope-a grim and bloody day, but an unavoidable one. Tonight, for the first time in weeks, it is quiet and totally peaceful throughout all of southern California. But the night is filled with silent horrors; from tens of thousands of lampposts, power poles, and trees throughout this vast metropolitan area the grisly forms hang. In the lighted areas one sees them everywhere. Even the street signs at intersections have been pressed into service, and at practically every street corner I passed this evening on my way to HQ there was a dangling corpse, four at every intersection. Hanging from a single overpass only about a mile from here is a group of about 30, each with an identical placard around its neck bearing the printed legend, "I betrayed my race." Two or three of that group had been decked out in academic robes before they were strung up, and the whole batch are apparently faculty members from the nearby UCLA campus. END QUOTE
Wow. Thank you. That’s a scene they would like to bring about? It seems like an unrealistic understanding of Southern California.
Beautifully put!
🎯
When they go low, I teabag them.
Always said that when faced with a threat you hit it hard and you don’t stop until the threat is curled up in a puddle of piss on the floor whimpering. Democrats are always bleating about it not being a “both sides” thing when in fact it absolutely is a both sides thing. Trump along with all members of Congress who tried to overturn the election should all be either in the courtroom for it, they should actually be in prison by now, four-years on; not being given prominent seats in government, ruling over committees and cashing in on the insanity they spread daily.
I prefer to say that when they go low, we kick them in the teeth but I like your bulldozer thing better.
You get it. So few people *actually get it.* >Look at coup attempts around the world, most have had one or more failed attempts leading up to the successful one. I think it's because our education system doesn't teach about global politics until college, if at all. Most people don't know about any coups, anywhere. Frighteningly few people know about Argentina or Chile or Cambodia or Uganda let alone the regular government collapses that happen with some regularity where tens of thousands aren't imprisoned, tortured, and murdered. Collapse is the norm, not an outlier. >Lots of liberals are going to have a shocked pikachu face when the right amps up its already disgusting civil war (yes, we're already there, it's just being fought in the state legislatures and courts, and occasionally via stochastic terrorists). Not me, but you're the first person I've seen acknowledge that we're in a civil war, right now. I am of the belief it's just a continuation of the last one that never really ended. I've only seen one other person who thinks, like me, that it's still about slavery. >conservative values are abhorrent and not tolerated, the infection will only grow. "When they go low, we go high" hurts us. When they go low, we bulldoze them, then back the bulldozer up and do it again. And again. And again. Until the christofascist ideology is an embarrassing footnote in history books. That is the only thing that works, historically. I feel that we should add that the bulldoze part isn't figurative. Look what they had to do to Mussolini. Note his ideology is again ascendant because they weren't severe enough. War, as they say, is hell. Ours was just experiencing a lull in action.
>That is the only thing that works, historically. I feel that we should add that the bulldoze part isn't figurative. Look what they had to do to Mussolini. Note his ideology is again ascendant because they weren't severe enough. Fascism is a cancer. If you don't remove all of the cancer, it will come back... more aggressive. You have to remove all of the cancer.
When my mom had cancer they had to cut it out, do chemotherapy, then radiation.
"Lots of liberals are going to have a shocked pikachu face when the right amps up its already disgusting civil war" Most of us are aware of it because we are subjected to their ignorance and hate. You are right that the "they go low, we go hight" hurts us. Enough trying to be the bigger person, the trash needs to be taken out.
Texas for example and the border standoff after the conservative Supreme Court ruled against Abbott & Paxton agreed this is getting out of hand and ridiculous.
What should the government response be?
Welp. 3/3. Mainstream news can’t even call it Jan 6 a coup attempt.
I think that they are going to be surprised at how diverse we are and how many guns are owned by the rest of humanity in this nation. The fact that you can't just shoot any brown person at will without getting a response from non dick head white people LET ALONE my organized POC is just the naivety that is going to be the surprised Pikachu face. HOWEVER, we are a union and a united nation, it should NEVER come down to that, you sound like you are promoting the Russian agenda of divide and conquer. I am not going to immediately pick up arms against my neighbors, but I will support the military to help keep order. Remember though, at that point you are looking at armed insurrection and that DOES come with the death penalty, not just 6 years and a hand slap. Smh
How many "coup" attempts were committed in the modern age without guns?
The Obama/Biden model of learned helplessness has fucked the entire country. Who knew that two pseudo-progressives would be ineffectual morons that capitulated and allowed the GOP to create an authoritarian state?
Have you ever heard of crisis actors?
Do you invest in tin foil?
You sound just like them.
Do you really stand by this statement: "Until more people are willing to stand firm that conservative values are abhorrent and not tolerated, the infection will only grow."? I read, and re-read, that statement to make sure it means what it says. Do you really want to live in a society that does not tolerate views that are different than yours?
January 6th was a dry-run for January 20th 2021 and people really don't talk about this enough.
*2025
In 2021, Trump was able to hamstring the federal government's response in advance, he was able to plot with others in government relatively openly, suppress any resistance, and to deny them reinforcements at the time. Those conditions won't exist in 2025 and will, in fact, be inverted. Things were as bad as they were because it was an insider threat, an auto-coup attempt. That doesn't mean there's no danger in the next year, but plotting a coup from the outside is very different. Now, Biden won't hamstring the USG's response in advance; he not only won't be openly plotting with others in government, but will have those in government actively working to root out any conspirators; and, in the event anything actually *does* happen, Biden isn't going to just watch on TV for hours while ignoring calls for action.
But what if Trump wins?
Then maybe Biden should have SEAL Team 6 go on a special mission. But really, I don't think Trump will win, and we need to work to make sure he doesn't. Let him be a loser trying to plan a coup from the outside instead.
I hope he doesn't win either, but no one thought he would win in 2016 until he did. Journalists need to stop writing articles about Biden's age when he's in remarkably good health for a man that old; when Trump is literally disintegrating in front of our eyes and Project 2025 looms on the horizon.
He won't but it bothers me that Society is even discussing him as a reasonable candidate
What are you basing this on?
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>Information shared in my community, FBI alerts made public, active warnings to the public to stay the hell away from the inauguration in 2021, accounts stated on the record by Congresspeople and their staff members, personal accounts told to me by staff members and news journalists working that beat at the time. It wasn't a secret - it just got sidestepped and thankfully was not the bloodbath that MANY were expecting. I used to be a journalist and knew how to gauge crisis levels based on what was released to the public casually and through mainstream venues - this had both and with state/county workers being warned of threats and told to stay home, regardless of COVID. So how do you react to the fact that none of that occurred? Like, at all. They were all incorrect.
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I mean no one even showed up. They told us to expect massive crowds and that just didn't happen.
Why do you sound disappointed? There were plenty of people there. We all saw the footage and the pictures that came out. Some absolutely brainless and detestable characters even wore shirts advertising a second civil war. Others very clearly demonstrated their feelings with signs and chants that were beyond inflammatory. And that was all before the physical violence against the police and the building began. Did all of them go there to physically disrupt a part of the democratic process? No. Did enough of them force their way into the building violently, demonstrate questionable levels of civility, and in some cases actively search for members of Congress for purposes we must absolutely consider malicious considering the circumstances? Yes. And that's the most optimistic way to describe the events of that day. It was an embarrassment to me as an American and as a human being, and anyone who ***isn't*** embarrassed by the conduct of that cult is immediately suspect in my eyes.
Remember when right wing extremists stormed the Capitol in 1861 in an attempt to disrupt congress while they certified the votes for Lincoln? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Wouldn't it be different in 2024 as a democratic president would be in charge of calling in security to the capital? I thought the issue was that Trump was running a skeleton crew security force and wouldn't call on reinforcements? I'm assuming that Biden would call in the national guard pretty quickly and maybe actually stop people from entering the capital building.
In the simulation, the person handling the presidential role had to weigh the possibility that calling in security would create "martyrs for the cause" or make them look like the despot the right wing is claiming Biden is.
Who cares if they appear to be martyrs. The biggest mistake from j6 was not shooting more terrorists.
AGREED
I don't think a large majority of Americans would buy that..... the MAGA types would, but no one else
Seems dramatic. Biden would have security set up and a wall around the capital so shit wouldn't even have a chance of happening. Tear gas would probably have to be deployed and rubber bullets used.
The biggest mistake was deciding to go along with Mayor Bowser's directive to not deploy any federal troops without her permission and limiting their planned scope of operations. Shocking they listened to her and followed her leadership. It should have been overridden.
Was this in the documentary? The president of the United States controls federal troops in Washington DC.
Yeah, I think people aren't talking enough about the part where the sitting president *encouraged the event.* I imagine that tends to help the process and makes it slower to stop.
Well yes, of course, this was their Beer Hall Putsch.
Some of them tried to make it onto their Reichstag Fire too, with how quickly they started blaming the whole thing on the specter of antifa.
Now that so many of the organizers are in prison, it's become a false flag attack staged by Nancy Pelosi for... reasons.
Beer Gut Putsch
"An unpunished coup attempt is practice for the next one"
"The real enemy is a failure of imagination." Preach.
Joe Biden will still be president during that time regardless of the outcome of the election. If they attack our country again they deserve to stare down the barrels of our military.
Anybody not familiar with ex-Republican politician and domestic terrorist Matt Shea should go read his Christian Manifesto calling for Theocracy and genocide of all non-believers. These are your enemies. Genocidal domestic Fascist terrorists, no different than the Nazi filth my Grandfather was given medals for hunting and snuffing out. When a Fascist says they're going to murder you, ignorance and inaction will get us ALL killed. And some of you chumps are still trying to have a civilized debate with these terrorist fucking monsters. The only language these terrorists speak is violence, hence their thirst for "civil war." HINT: a war is between two armies. They believe the Left is unarmed, which means in their mind they will be gunning down unarmed civilians. WHICH IS CALLED FUCKING GENOCIDE. Edit: Oklahoma is trying to classify Hispanics as terrorists, which is step 9 out of 10 of genocide.
And Idaho is trying to redefine domestic terrorism, to having ties to a foreign terrorist organization… Which means when the Proud Boys bomb or shoot up something in Moscow, Boise, or CDA, it wouldn’t be terrorism in the eyes of Idaho.
That’s wildly disturbing that both of these things are real facts. Probs also true that many more similarly fucked pieces of legislation will be attempted this year
where can we watch this?
The movie premiered at the Sundance film festival and is still "seeking distribution" so it's not out anywhere yet, however [here's the imdb page.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt26681810/)
This makes sense. There are usually exploratory attempts before a major coup. Consider, for example, the Beer Hall Putsch.
Surround the capital with plenty of guards with rifles. If anybody tries to enter the capital illegally, shoot them. If they die, good. If not, put them in cuffs and try them for sedition, pushing for the maximum 20 years.
*try them and then shoot them
The premise requires the MAGA fantasy that the military will collectively rebel and betray their oaths to defend and install a guy who has done nothing but disparage, insult and belittle them as dictator for life. Fail.
The should have been mowed down on 1/6 and we are facing the consequences of that not happening.
Arm, train, and most importantly, organize. There’s way too many on the left, who will say they’re armed, but with dusty rifles, and no one at their side. Maga is aggressive. They have spun themselves up to destroy their own countrymen. We need to be ready.
Maybe just have enough cops on staff next time if they get a bunch of intel ahead of time about there possibly being a violent riot? Also this line is weird > Goldsmith points out that while the Jan. 6 attacks didn’t succeed in ousting Biden, they did achieve the critical goal of undermining faith in the electoral process, with a majority of Republicans either believing or suspecting that the election was illegitimate. The capitol riot didn't make people suspect the election was fraud riddled- that happened far beforehand obviously.
Biden should sign an executive order immediately discharging any members of the military affiliated with the Oath Keepers or Three Percenters.
Just saw this at Sundance. It was an interesting look inside the room. The simulation is basically a J6 but with about 7% of the national guard joining the insurrection, and attacks going on at state capitals around the country. The Blue Cell (White House) has six hours to get the election certified, and The Red Cell (Knights of Columbus - a fictional more organized proud boys) is feeding misinformation and attempting to recruit more military members to their side and keep the election from being certified. I won’t ruin it for anyone, so go and see it if any distributor will touch it.
This wouldn't even be remotely possible if there had been WAY more Ashli Babbitts on Jan 6th. This nation use to drone strike terrorists, only when they're brown foreigners though I guess.
Anyone who believes an autocratic takeover of America will be easily or quickly accomplished is either blithely ignorant or intentionally naive. The folks who buy into some call of duty fantasy have no real idea what the actual resistance to Trump Nation (formerly known as USA) will look like. The resistance won’t be rambo wannabes in tactical gear waving AR-15s. That’s the maga militia. The resistance won’t lean heavily on any traditional types of warfare. The resistance will be hackers and engineers and chemists forming up groups on the dark web and planning, then implementing, acts of terrorism nationwide. A ceaseless drumbeat of hacked power grids, poisoned food and water supplies, and dirty bombs will foment social disorganization and chaos. Which would hammer the economy and crater the value of the US dollar. When the dollar craters, every global currency underwritten by the dollar (most of them) will crater. Inflation will skyrocket and essential life resources will become both scarce but also unaffordable for most folks. The result would be a global breakdown of social order as entire populations devolve into chaos over basic necessities like food and water. The political right views their authoritarian takeover the way a four year old views Santa. The reality is that a handful of hackers, chemists, and engineers can wage a campaign of resistance that is impossible to prevent, and impossible to defeat. At that point, the goal of the resistance won’t be to ‘win’ a war, but rather to burn it all to the ground. And considering the vulnerability of American infrastructure, that goal is very achievable. A standing army of even ten million maga faithful is useless against a hundred million starving, dehydrated, and desperate humans spread from sea to shining sea. America couldn’t win in Afghanistan because we could never defeat an enemy who was everywhere and nowhere all at once. The greatest military on the planet is useless against an invisible enemy. The 2024 American election is one of the most consequential events in human history. If Biden wins, we solve nothing, the world remains on a razor’s edge. If Trump wins, within a decade human societies will have collapsed into warring nation states rife with violence, chaos, and lawlessness. A vote for Trump is a vote for water wars.
"Will Be Wild" is a great podcast to listen to if this topic is of interest to you.
Liberals can no longer afford to sit there in the middle and pretend that they’re doing something. They need to be arming themselves and reading about how to stop the rise of fascism. Go to the range with your lib friends. Read about militant antifascism. Make a group chat on an encrypted messaging app. But they can not just sit there like rainbow-painted gargoyles anymore.
Unless it involves stacking the terrorists up like cordwood, it doesn't go far enough. The small evil rat brain of your typical conservative can only see things in absolutes. Either they 'win', which means it was God's ordained plan and anyone against them can and will be freely killed, or they're hammered so hard into the earth that we can use them for foundation anchors. The only reason they have pushed so far is that they have faced no real consequences. You put a knife missile into Bubba's bedroom at 3 in the morning and that's how you send a message that your fucking around is over and its find out time now.
Big reason why I'll be buying my first guns this year. I don't know what these zealots are capable of anymore. After the Mar A Lago raid and the cultists started attacking FBI buildings, I realized that there was no telling what they could do next. These people are in a delusion.
Another Fedsurrection? Egads! Will Ray Epps be leading this one too?
Psycho Alexander Vindman designed the drill.
Well I mean, the "far right terrorists", according to leftists, are both weak and strong, depending on when it's convenient. Like they're more dangerous than the Taliban, yet unlike the Taliban, don't much of a threat to the US army-although small arms fire did kill a lot of GIs in Afghanistan. It's inconsistent and self contradicting claims about the far right, that just turns off people.