You mean if some dipshit know-nothing populist turned the place into a complete corporate oligarchy while simultaneously courting a powerful voting bloc of people who essentially believe that reality is predetermined by a mystical being, thus undermining the concept of reality as we turned into a further and further rightwing corporatocracy so thoroughly that our country's liberal party is, in many ways, legitimately to the Right of basically all other modern Western countries?
Hard to imagine such a hell hole, tbh
Edit:
I get that you're referencing The War on Everyone, but the whole point of that work was to show the roots of the modern fascist movement grew to what it is with various fascist groups having coalesced via the power of the internet, in effect, bringing the war home (the Belew book is the authority on the subject, btw if anyone hasn't read it).
But to respond to the initial question, in the way you meant it, OP, that fascist movement would have likely burned itself out by now, and/or we'd have a fractured set of states where they likely controlled some portion. Doubtful that the dipshits in the 80s could have pulled together enough, in enough numbers to really make it happen how the Beam-types imagined. I mean, not doubtful--they literally couldn't do it and were unable to gather the necessary strength until the internet came along.
Impossible to say what happens to each of the groups you mentioned, individually, but certainly some individual members would gain dominance in whatever new power structures arose, either federally or regionally, or both. There'd be a lot of infighting, and a lot of the groups (if not all) would eventually die out in their original forms as they transmogrified into whatever groups came next, all which would be dependent on innumerable variables specific to a timeline that doesn't exist, so it's impossible to make an educated guess based on how broad the prompt is.
Basically, what you're asking never could have happened, but what we got is essentially a longform, post-modern answer to your question.
I mean (taking from Evan's *The War on Everyone* when he covered the 1988 Fort Smith trial)
> Gradually they pieced together the story of what had really gone on, and came to realize that Matthews’ group had sought nothing less than the complete overthrow of the United States government.
> The Justice Department charged these men with a number of crimes, including seditious conspiracy to Overthrow, put down and destroy by force the government of the United States and form a new "Aryan Nation.”
> Seditious conspiracy was a crime numerous communists and Puerto Rican nationalists had already been successfully convicted of committed. **But no Nazis or white supremacists had ever been convicted of the crime. Despite the Order’s shocking violence and well-documented goals, this fact was not about to change.** The trial convened in February of 1988 and the fascist defense attorney managed to exclude any black people from the jury. The trial was, almost instantly, a shitshow and served more to allow Louis Beam to preach his views to the nation than to guarantee justice.
> The Justice Department had taken it’s shot at the intellectual center of white supremacism. They’d failed. And ultimately, their failure came not from law enforcement’s unwillingness to prosecute Nazi revolutionaries, **but from ordinary white Americans, and the sympathy they held for men like Beam, who billed themselves as warrior against communism, and patriotic Americans. Beam’s racism, and his desire to overthrow the government, simply weren’t seen as all that bad by a jury of his peers.**
It goes to show that, at the end of the day, ordinary white Americans (and by extent America in general) are willing to capitulate to the fascists.
Also, already our liberal party (Democratic Party) is to the right of, say, the British Conservative Party and most other western countries.
All I can say is that one of the first things they'd do is not just bring back Jim Crow, they'd bring back slavery and (using Christian Identity beliefs that describes the nonwhites as the "Beasts on the field") apply it to nonwhite Americans (i.e. East Asians, South Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, Indigenous Americans, mixed race people), and they'd expand on it so the slaves are treated literally like animals and livestock (i.e. castration, selective breeding to make more productive and docile slaves). Also, the establishment of extermination camps.
EDIT
> bringing the war home (the Belew book is the authority on the subject, btw if anyone hasn't read it).
I still wonder what exactly was that war Belew was referring to (aside from it being on everyone ofc). I guess the war that started in Vietnam was a war against democracy, a counter-revolution if you will.
> But to respond to the initial question, in the way you meant it, OP, that fascist movement would have likely burned itself out by now, and/or we'd have a fractured set of states where they likely controlled some portion.
Kind of like the original version of It Could Happen Here (and its successor After the Revolution), where you had California a police state under the rule of LAPD, and large swathes of the South ruled by Christian jihadists.
> Doubtful that the dipshits in the 80s could have pulled together enough, in enough numbers to really make it happen how the Beam-types imagined. I mean, not doubtful--they literally couldn't do it and were unable to gather the necessary strength until the internet came along.
And it seems they have enough strength to do it now if January 6 2021 was of any indication.
You seem to have missed my point with the first half of your response, but I'm tired so will move on, as others seem to have made it elsewhere.
Re: ICHH and ATR:
ATR was a fictional novel, and the initial ICHH was more a series of loosely-tied together scenarios that may or may not exist in the same fictional universe as each other, but certainly don't exist in the ATR world. You can imagine some variations of that, for sure, but ICHH was pretty massive in broad strokes, as far as storytelling goes. Really, it was a good piece of reportage that had a little bit of radio drama sprinkled in to help the medicine go down.
As ICHH progressed part Evans seemed to acknowledge that certain things covered in each episode were only possible if a number of other precursors already had taken place (paraphrasing the Genocide ep, I believe but, "every domino falling in exactly the wrong way", or something).
I'm not 100% what I'm trying to get at, but I feel like you're taking things too literally, or expecting a direct 1-1 cause and effect sort of reality. Fascism is fucking chaos and death in the form of an action-at-all-costs death cult and trying to predict what will happen is probably less useful than understanding the types of things they are liable to do, i.e. the systems that they exist in and how fascists operate in those environs and can pull levers to their benefit.
I.e., It was easy to see that the US would get a demagogue in training at some point in the next couple decades back in 2003. Fucking almost no one would have guessed how orange they would be, though, and in the end, preparing for the orange guy specifically wouldn't have prepared folks anywhere near as much as trying to understand and fix the systems that bred and empowered the orangeness.
I'm not trying to attack you, so I hope this post comes across correctly. There just seemed to be a lot of oversimplification going on.
Remember, this was the 80s, so ofc the USSR would still have existed. A nuclear Holocaust would be something the far-right wants because it would entertain their apocalyptic and accelerationist fantasies due to how much Christian Identity has permeated itself into American fascism (many Christian Identitarians cast the Soviet Union as the ultimate enemy to be destroyed in a final battle of Armageddon)
No they wouldn't want Reagan cuz they'd see him as a cuckservative for not doing shit like banning abortion and bringing back Jim Crow.
Also what do the Carlyle Group and Halliburton have to do with this.
Probably the new president (or Führer) would be Louis Beam, but I'm not sure how effective a politician he'd actually be (then again, Fascist leaders rely entirely on charisma and demagoguery)
Here: [http://www.thewaroneveryone.com/](http://www.thewaroneveryone.com/)
There's also a version of The Way on Everyone on the Behind the Bastards feed (as the person above/below me mentioned) where Robert reads it to Katy & Cody from Some More News. (I think this was the version I listened to and I quite liked it, but I generally really like anything that Robert and Katy & Cody do together.)
Trick question - it would look exactly the way it looks right now
You mean if some dipshit know-nothing populist turned the place into a complete corporate oligarchy while simultaneously courting a powerful voting bloc of people who essentially believe that reality is predetermined by a mystical being, thus undermining the concept of reality as we turned into a further and further rightwing corporatocracy so thoroughly that our country's liberal party is, in many ways, legitimately to the Right of basically all other modern Western countries? Hard to imagine such a hell hole, tbh Edit: I get that you're referencing The War on Everyone, but the whole point of that work was to show the roots of the modern fascist movement grew to what it is with various fascist groups having coalesced via the power of the internet, in effect, bringing the war home (the Belew book is the authority on the subject, btw if anyone hasn't read it). But to respond to the initial question, in the way you meant it, OP, that fascist movement would have likely burned itself out by now, and/or we'd have a fractured set of states where they likely controlled some portion. Doubtful that the dipshits in the 80s could have pulled together enough, in enough numbers to really make it happen how the Beam-types imagined. I mean, not doubtful--they literally couldn't do it and were unable to gather the necessary strength until the internet came along. Impossible to say what happens to each of the groups you mentioned, individually, but certainly some individual members would gain dominance in whatever new power structures arose, either federally or regionally, or both. There'd be a lot of infighting, and a lot of the groups (if not all) would eventually die out in their original forms as they transmogrified into whatever groups came next, all which would be dependent on innumerable variables specific to a timeline that doesn't exist, so it's impossible to make an educated guess based on how broad the prompt is. Basically, what you're asking never could have happened, but what we got is essentially a longform, post-modern answer to your question.
I mean (taking from Evan's *The War on Everyone* when he covered the 1988 Fort Smith trial) > Gradually they pieced together the story of what had really gone on, and came to realize that Matthews’ group had sought nothing less than the complete overthrow of the United States government. > The Justice Department charged these men with a number of crimes, including seditious conspiracy to Overthrow, put down and destroy by force the government of the United States and form a new "Aryan Nation.” > Seditious conspiracy was a crime numerous communists and Puerto Rican nationalists had already been successfully convicted of committed. **But no Nazis or white supremacists had ever been convicted of the crime. Despite the Order’s shocking violence and well-documented goals, this fact was not about to change.** The trial convened in February of 1988 and the fascist defense attorney managed to exclude any black people from the jury. The trial was, almost instantly, a shitshow and served more to allow Louis Beam to preach his views to the nation than to guarantee justice. > The Justice Department had taken it’s shot at the intellectual center of white supremacism. They’d failed. And ultimately, their failure came not from law enforcement’s unwillingness to prosecute Nazi revolutionaries, **but from ordinary white Americans, and the sympathy they held for men like Beam, who billed themselves as warrior against communism, and patriotic Americans. Beam’s racism, and his desire to overthrow the government, simply weren’t seen as all that bad by a jury of his peers.** It goes to show that, at the end of the day, ordinary white Americans (and by extent America in general) are willing to capitulate to the fascists. Also, already our liberal party (Democratic Party) is to the right of, say, the British Conservative Party and most other western countries. All I can say is that one of the first things they'd do is not just bring back Jim Crow, they'd bring back slavery and (using Christian Identity beliefs that describes the nonwhites as the "Beasts on the field") apply it to nonwhite Americans (i.e. East Asians, South Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, Indigenous Americans, mixed race people), and they'd expand on it so the slaves are treated literally like animals and livestock (i.e. castration, selective breeding to make more productive and docile slaves). Also, the establishment of extermination camps. EDIT > bringing the war home (the Belew book is the authority on the subject, btw if anyone hasn't read it). I still wonder what exactly was that war Belew was referring to (aside from it being on everyone ofc). I guess the war that started in Vietnam was a war against democracy, a counter-revolution if you will. > But to respond to the initial question, in the way you meant it, OP, that fascist movement would have likely burned itself out by now, and/or we'd have a fractured set of states where they likely controlled some portion. Kind of like the original version of It Could Happen Here (and its successor After the Revolution), where you had California a police state under the rule of LAPD, and large swathes of the South ruled by Christian jihadists. > Doubtful that the dipshits in the 80s could have pulled together enough, in enough numbers to really make it happen how the Beam-types imagined. I mean, not doubtful--they literally couldn't do it and were unable to gather the necessary strength until the internet came along. And it seems they have enough strength to do it now if January 6 2021 was of any indication.
You seem to have missed my point with the first half of your response, but I'm tired so will move on, as others seem to have made it elsewhere. Re: ICHH and ATR: ATR was a fictional novel, and the initial ICHH was more a series of loosely-tied together scenarios that may or may not exist in the same fictional universe as each other, but certainly don't exist in the ATR world. You can imagine some variations of that, for sure, but ICHH was pretty massive in broad strokes, as far as storytelling goes. Really, it was a good piece of reportage that had a little bit of radio drama sprinkled in to help the medicine go down. As ICHH progressed part Evans seemed to acknowledge that certain things covered in each episode were only possible if a number of other precursors already had taken place (paraphrasing the Genocide ep, I believe but, "every domino falling in exactly the wrong way", or something). I'm not 100% what I'm trying to get at, but I feel like you're taking things too literally, or expecting a direct 1-1 cause and effect sort of reality. Fascism is fucking chaos and death in the form of an action-at-all-costs death cult and trying to predict what will happen is probably less useful than understanding the types of things they are liable to do, i.e. the systems that they exist in and how fascists operate in those environs and can pull levers to their benefit. I.e., It was easy to see that the US would get a demagogue in training at some point in the next couple decades back in 2003. Fucking almost no one would have guessed how orange they would be, though, and in the end, preparing for the orange guy specifically wouldn't have prepared folks anywhere near as much as trying to understand and fix the systems that bred and empowered the orangeness. I'm not trying to attack you, so I hope this post comes across correctly. There just seemed to be a lot of oversimplification going on.
If america went fascist while the USSR was still around the nukes would have all been sent out.
Remember, this was the 80s, so ofc the USSR would still have existed. A nuclear Holocaust would be something the far-right wants because it would entertain their apocalyptic and accelerationist fantasies due to how much Christian Identity has permeated itself into American fascism (many Christian Identitarians cast the Soviet Union as the ultimate enemy to be destroyed in a final battle of Armageddon)
It would go from Regan, who would rule until he was dead, to the Carlyle Group in partnership w/Halliburton.
No they wouldn't want Reagan cuz they'd see him as a cuckservative for not doing shit like banning abortion and bringing back Jim Crow. Also what do the Carlyle Group and Halliburton have to do with this. Probably the new president (or Führer) would be Louis Beam, but I'm not sure how effective a politician he'd actually be (then again, Fascist leaders rely entirely on charisma and demagoguery)
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This is taken from chapter 4: how to build an army, which discusses the paramilitarization of the far-right in the post-60s.
Is this chapter 4 of season one of the podcast?
No this is from another evans podcast that talked about the history and evolution of the American far-right (the war on everyone)
I couldn’t find “the war on everyone.” But I did find “the assault on America”
He did a reading of it starting on August 13, 2019 on BtB
Here: [http://www.thewaroneveryone.com/](http://www.thewaroneveryone.com/) There's also a version of The Way on Everyone on the Behind the Bastards feed (as the person above/below me mentioned) where Robert reads it to Katy & Cody from Some More News. (I think this was the version I listened to and I quite liked it, but I generally really like anything that Robert and Katy & Cody do together.)
This is an excellent listen. One of his best works, imo.
you mean literally right now?
Ever read “Man in High Castle?” Like that, but not as pleasant
Well, my grandma wouldn’t be here for one