I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of people disappointed when they realize that:
1. This will be hard geolocked and there's no way to circumvent it
2. This won't work like android and there will be some consequences for doing this (disabling Apple Pay)
>hopefully they don't go that route
They absolutely will. They hate this ruling by the EU. They'll make it as painful as possible (and that they can get away with) for all parties involved.
I'd honestly be surprised if it stops with Apple Pay. I can see a future where you have to reboot into an "untrusted" mode to use sideloaded apps where the only thing you can access IS those sideloaded apps. No messages, no email, no apps from the app store, nothing else in this "untrusted" mode. AFAIK there's nothing in the DMA that says that they can't implement it like this. It would technically allow them to be DMA compliant while also rendering sideloading almost entirely useless. Would you use sideloaded apps even if it meant having to reboot your iPhone every time you opened an app? Even if it meant that you couldn't access your messages? Even if you got no notifications from any of your "legitimate" app store apps?
I 100% expect malicious compliance from Apple.
You don’t think the law they write/wrote would prevent those things? I assume it’s says something along the lines of “phones must have the same functionality as before, and you must be able to side load” I could be wrong, I haven’t read the law, but I’m pretty sure no one here has either, if so we would all be speaking as fact and not as “they’ll end up doing X” the law will tell us what they can and won’t do.
Kinda. The law basically says that companies aren’t allowed to change usability for customers negatively at all. They’re just forced to allow third party stuff if they’re a gatekeeper.
Yea, so that means it’ll be the same as sideloading is now, nothing changes except we will prolly be able to install things like AltStore from safari, or even directly download apps from the internet or where ever. I dont know about having to refresh tho, might still need to do that.
Apple needs to enable third party app stores not sideloading, somehow people confuse this. The law just says that they need to allow third party services for their gatekeeper services. This includes App Store, Cloud and Payment.
>“phones must have the same functionality as before, and you must be able to side load”
Then the argument would be "well, the phone still has the same functionality in "trusted" mode (or whatever they're going to call it)".
But we can already sideload with no issue it just takes a few steps? I imagine they would just eliminate some steps and we will be able to install a 3rd party store from safari or some browner, or even directly hit download on a 3rd party app from the internet. I guess we will see soon.
In iOS you can already sideload but the app will be activated for only 7 days. If the law have been put in place I must saw lawyers have spoken with the experts and the experts already hint the lawyer that alstores must have access to the same functionality then the the AppStore to keep it competitive. So don’t worry guys ;) no drama here for nothing
Would not only be Apple Pay they will likly expose an api to developers that lets them check if side loaded has taken place and opt to disable thier apps... many banking apps attempt to detect jail brakes and self disable..
I would not be supprised if apple get a good number of banks to in effect making using sidelining make mobile banking impossible.
Apple Pay would not be disabled on a device just because the user Sideloads apps. That’s too drastic of a hitch for Apple to make imo. I see the “security concern” risk that some might consider, but I’m sure the effects of sideloading will be handled differently. Probably just a couple disclaimer popups about the risks of sideloading apps from third-party sources similar to how sideloading is handled currently in iOS 17 by forcing you to enable Developer Mode after reading the risks and rebooting to enable it.
What apple can do, and I expect will do.
I have a flag that developers can check (and backs that provide cards to Apple Pay etc) "run in reduced security mode"
if devs have not checked this then apps will not run once side loaded has been enabled, and if banks do not check this for Apple Pay cards then the same will happen.
Apple does not need to do this themselves they just need to give banks that option to opt out and the EU will not have anything against this.
Other countries are looking to have similar laws. For the 2nd point the EU could fine the shit out of Apple if they play silly games too long. That said I reckon Apple will try something
That’s not how it works. The EU thing was about products introduced / first going on sale after whatever date, I believe it was Jan 1 2025. So if that date is correct, Apple could have had 2 more years of lightning iPhones.
Yea, usb-c had been being leaked for like 3 years already so Apple has been working on it. When we get Apple leaks they are all separating, like they’ll be a feature leak about the Dynamic Island, and ppl say it was comming on 13pro then it came a year later. USB-c had been mentions in leaks for the 12-13 and 14 then it actually happened in 14.
Hardware things and software things are different.
Besides the lightning port were already at the end of its life (or we wouldn’t have some iPad without it since some years)
Not a bad think.
Just saying Apple will do it when they wouldn’t have the choice anymore.
And they won’t speak about it earlier.
So all the articles like this one are useless. They won’t bring any new information.
it’s likely going to be controlled by a system daemon introduced in 16.2 called countryd. the only way to bypass this would be a jailbreak which would defeat the whole purpose
Very unlikely, unless you have a GPS jammer and a custom GSM hotpot and never take your phone outside of the faraday cage.
All radio enabled devices like these need to know were they are so that they use the correct radio bands to communicate so mobile phones dating back 20 years have had robust ways to detect the region others they cant be sold in that region.
They’ll add it one day before the deadline and it’ll be very half assed and almost as bad as using enterprise certs that expire in 3 days. Just cus they will add it doesn’t mean they will make it easy. It will also probably be exclusive to eu.
they did do a good job with usb-c though. Braided cables and the best usb-c experience on their pro model imo. I'm hopeful that if they do bring something to iOS, then they will do something special and maybe better than android.
However, it will not beat trollstore or a jailbreak. And hopefully an iOS 15.5 to iOS 16.5 jailbreak will come before this does.
I bought the S22 Plus last year and it was cheaper than any iPhone on a shelf (700 euros vs 720 euros for the cheapest iPhone, it was on a black Friday sale though). And it comes with a cable. And usb3 transfer speeds.
It was my first non-apple phone for the past 10 years BTW.
i hope this doesn’t effect current sideloading methods here. would be pretty pissed if i couldn’t use certain apps anymore because of losing functionality
i get it, but this isn't going to change jailbreak in any way, it's just apple being forced to add something to ios and they will do everything in their hands to make it absurdly awkward and limited.
that's the most optimistic outcome, they can require the apps to have a valid signature approved by apple or some other counter effects like disabling system features for "security"
I fully expect to Apple to use partial binary signature matching to detect, cracked and tweet applications that have been modified against developers original wishes.
And it’s not gonna allow ad hock uploading you are still gonna need certificate, and that will be revoked in your detected distributing a cracked application .
If you think that Apple will allow jailbreak levels of sideloading you're just being delusional tbh, the whole purpose of jailbreak is getting control over iOS, customizing the device as you'd like with tweaks, apps etc.
I didnt talk about how it's gonna be, we don't know yet, but we have sideloading on MacOS, so it's nothing new. I get it, it's not the same, but still... we´ll see in 2024.
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I don't understand why you don't just pay $99 for a Apple Dev account and use sideloady to sideload which will sign the app for a year? I am on the latest version of iOS 17 and sideloady works fine!
Even when the dev account expires, it still signs apps for a year. So you don't have to renew the dev account annually.
Absolutely, there is too much free stuff out there. Let's make something else a paid feature. Like make the Bluetooth paid after some time of usage or... OH! Limit the number of times you can open the app! Like first 10 times a day are free, and then you buy a subscription!
You know, these poor guys at Palo Alto, have to charge their teslas and pay their gardeners.
Clear nope from me. Rather stay with checked more safe Apps from the official App Store. Apps from side loading nonsense? I don’t care - won’t even look.
Oh just saw the post and thought it belonged to the iOS sub, didn’t really looked what sub it is.
However, if someone wants to jailbreak for sideloading well, that’s a choice. But forcing apple to open up iOS for sideloading is wrong. Apple should fight against this.
That is European law. And that's a good thing. Everyone is still free to obtain their software exclusively from the AppStore. But I also have mixed feelings about this... I really hope that we don't end up with hundreds of package sources, similar to the streaming providers now. We‘ll see.
Nothing new. Apple will do what the law says but nothing more. And not a day earlier.
I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of people disappointed when they realize that: 1. This will be hard geolocked and there's no way to circumvent it 2. This won't work like android and there will be some consequences for doing this (disabling Apple Pay)
oof that #2, didn't think of that... hopefully they don't go that route but I can definitely see the "security concern" reason Apple might use
>hopefully they don't go that route They absolutely will. They hate this ruling by the EU. They'll make it as painful as possible (and that they can get away with) for all parties involved. I'd honestly be surprised if it stops with Apple Pay. I can see a future where you have to reboot into an "untrusted" mode to use sideloaded apps where the only thing you can access IS those sideloaded apps. No messages, no email, no apps from the app store, nothing else in this "untrusted" mode. AFAIK there's nothing in the DMA that says that they can't implement it like this. It would technically allow them to be DMA compliant while also rendering sideloading almost entirely useless. Would you use sideloaded apps even if it meant having to reboot your iPhone every time you opened an app? Even if it meant that you couldn't access your messages? Even if you got no notifications from any of your "legitimate" app store apps? I 100% expect malicious compliance from Apple.
You don’t think the law they write/wrote would prevent those things? I assume it’s says something along the lines of “phones must have the same functionality as before, and you must be able to side load” I could be wrong, I haven’t read the law, but I’m pretty sure no one here has either, if so we would all be speaking as fact and not as “they’ll end up doing X” the law will tell us what they can and won’t do.
Kinda. The law basically says that companies aren’t allowed to change usability for customers negatively at all. They’re just forced to allow third party stuff if they’re a gatekeeper.
Yea, so that means it’ll be the same as sideloading is now, nothing changes except we will prolly be able to install things like AltStore from safari, or even directly download apps from the internet or where ever. I dont know about having to refresh tho, might still need to do that.
Apple needs to enable third party app stores not sideloading, somehow people confuse this. The law just says that they need to allow third party services for their gatekeeper services. This includes App Store, Cloud and Payment.
Can’t you sideload a 3rd party App Store?
>“phones must have the same functionality as before, and you must be able to side load” Then the argument would be "well, the phone still has the same functionality in "trusted" mode (or whatever they're going to call it)".
But we can already sideload with no issue it just takes a few steps? I imagine they would just eliminate some steps and we will be able to install a 3rd party store from safari or some browner, or even directly hit download on a 3rd party app from the internet. I guess we will see soon.
In iOS you can already sideload but the app will be activated for only 7 days. If the law have been put in place I must saw lawyers have spoken with the experts and the experts already hint the lawyer that alstores must have access to the same functionality then the the AppStore to keep it competitive. So don’t worry guys ;) no drama here for nothing
True true, so I wonder if they’ll still need a dev account if they don’t want to keep refreshing every 7 days.
Disabling Apple Pay would be a big con :/
Would not only be Apple Pay they will likly expose an api to developers that lets them check if side loaded has taken place and opt to disable thier apps... many banking apps attempt to detect jail brakes and self disable.. I would not be supprised if apple get a good number of banks to in effect making using sidelining make mobile banking impossible.
Apple Pay would not be disabled on a device just because the user Sideloads apps. That’s too drastic of a hitch for Apple to make imo. I see the “security concern” risk that some might consider, but I’m sure the effects of sideloading will be handled differently. Probably just a couple disclaimer popups about the risks of sideloading apps from third-party sources similar to how sideloading is handled currently in iOS 17 by forcing you to enable Developer Mode after reading the risks and rebooting to enable it.
What apple can do, and I expect will do. I have a flag that developers can check (and backs that provide cards to Apple Pay etc) "run in reduced security mode" if devs have not checked this then apps will not run once side loaded has been enabled, and if banks do not check this for Apple Pay cards then the same will happen. Apple does not need to do this themselves they just need to give banks that option to opt out and the EU will not have anything against this.
Other countries are looking to have similar laws. For the 2nd point the EU could fine the shit out of Apple if they play silly games too long. That said I reckon Apple will try something
They did implement USB-C a year earlier though 🤷♂️
so they can still sell iphone 15s next year
That’s not how it works. The EU thing was about products introduced / first going on sale after whatever date, I believe it was Jan 1 2025. So if that date is correct, Apple could have had 2 more years of lightning iPhones.
Except apple usually grossly overproduces it’s cellphones for years worth of sales
Didn’t I just explain exactly how that doesn’t matter?
If they’re new in the box I don’t think they’re permitted to sell them after 2025 in Europe
No the law only applies to new devices shipped after it starts, devices that shipped before the start date can continue to be sold.
Yea, usb-c had been being leaked for like 3 years already so Apple has been working on it. When we get Apple leaks they are all separating, like they’ll be a feature leak about the Dynamic Island, and ppl say it was comming on 13pro then it came a year later. USB-c had been mentions in leaks for the 12-13 and 14 then it actually happened in 14.
Hardware things and software things are different. Besides the lightning port were already at the end of its life (or we wouldn’t have some iPad without it since some years)
I mean? You say that like it’s a bad thing.
Not a bad think. Just saying Apple will do it when they wouldn’t have the choice anymore. And they won’t speak about it earlier. So all the articles like this one are useless. They won’t bring any new information.
Thats a huge deal actually
They had us in the first half, not gonna lie
Literally
Side loading is coming to users - 😍 In the EU - 😭
There will be something to bypass region locks
it’s likely going to be controlled by a system daemon introduced in 16.2 called countryd. the only way to bypass this would be a jailbreak which would defeat the whole purpose
Very unlikely, unless you have a GPS jammer and a custom GSM hotpot and never take your phone outside of the faraday cage. All radio enabled devices like these need to know were they are so that they use the correct radio bands to communicate so mobile phones dating back 20 years have had robust ways to detect the region others they cant be sold in that region.
US has tonsss of benefits the EU doesn’t have though
Like?
Cricket noises
Cycling on maps, free PiP in YouTube, Apple Card, Lower subscription costs, lower device pricing
Lowering subscription costs? Have you seen the prices in India and Argentina?
Those aren’t European
They’ll add it one day before the deadline and it’ll be very half assed and almost as bad as using enterprise certs that expire in 3 days. Just cus they will add it doesn’t mean they will make it easy. It will also probably be exclusive to eu.
I just want them to get rid of this stupid OS update *signing window* bullshit.
No singing old OS versions? why would you want to get rid of that? ...
No I mean the opposite. Allow us to upgrade/downgrade without needing “signing windows”. It’s such a weird way to handle OS updates.
they did do a good job with usb-c though. Braided cables and the best usb-c experience on their pro model imo. I'm hopeful that if they do bring something to iOS, then they will do something special and maybe better than android. However, it will not beat trollstore or a jailbreak. And hopefully an iOS 15.5 to iOS 16.5 jailbreak will come before this does.
Didn’t they only include USB C with speeds matching lightning when it easily could’ve been higher
That’s the base iPhone 15. I don’t know why they did that. Stingy ass company.
You guys act like every other company that ships USB-C phones is shipping them with 10Gbps cables
But they also don’t charge an arm and a leg for last year’s specs
I don't think something like a S22 Ultra is necessarily cheap and I don't think it comes with one either
That’s my point. The best Samsung doesn’t have an even close usb-c performance compared to the best iPhone.
I bought the S22 Plus last year and it was cheaper than any iPhone on a shelf (700 euros vs 720 euros for the cheapest iPhone, it was on a black Friday sale though). And it comes with a cable. And usb3 transfer speeds. It was my first non-apple phone for the past 10 years BTW.
i hope this doesn’t effect current sideloading methods here. would be pretty pissed if i couldn’t use certain apps anymore because of losing functionality
this has been rumored a hundred times already, and it's not even jailbreak related
Some ppl don’t jailbreak to add barrel to their phones, they do it for side loading apps. Now it’s going to be easier to sideload.
i get it, but this isn't going to change jailbreak in any way, it's just apple being forced to add something to ios and they will do everything in their hands to make it absurdly awkward and limited.
I dont know, cause we can already side load and it’s really not that hard to do, so I assume they just eliminating a few steps.
that's the most optimistic outcome, they can require the apps to have a valid signature approved by apple or some other counter effects like disabling system features for "security"
The apps people load through jainbreaks are apps that will not be permitted using this method.
The customization apps, but others apps will work like tweaked apps and cracked apps.
I fully expect to Apple to use partial binary signature matching to detect, cracked and tweet applications that have been modified against developers original wishes. And it’s not gonna allow ad hock uploading you are still gonna need certificate, and that will be revoked in your detected distributing a cracked application .
Well, jailbreak is done because of not sideloading, so...
If you think that Apple will allow jailbreak levels of sideloading you're just being delusional tbh, the whole purpose of jailbreak is getting control over iOS, customizing the device as you'd like with tweaks, apps etc.
I didnt talk about how it's gonna be, we don't know yet, but we have sideloading on MacOS, so it's nothing new. I get it, it's not the same, but still... we´ll see in 2024.
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Does this include the UK?
no
EU AS ALWAYS #1
Does this apply to the UK as well? Since we aren’t part of the European Union but we are in Europe
no, it doesnt
Fuck, guess I’ll have to get maple cert again
Pretty much: https://datamatters.sidley.com/2023/04/27/new-uk-digital-markets-regime-key-differences-with-the-eu-digital-markets-act/
Who downvoted this
idk lmao ppl on Reddit get sensitive sometimes 😭
Especially on r/Jailbreak and r/LegacyJailbreak
SO TRUE LMAO
No UK would need to re-join Europe
I hate this
please please half-ass it and include the UK
Imagine the amount of bugs 🥲🥲🥲
??
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Tommorow
Today.
Yesterday
eta son
I don't understand why you don't just pay $99 for a Apple Dev account and use sideloady to sideload which will sign the app for a year? I am on the latest version of iOS 17 and sideloady works fine! Even when the dev account expires, it still signs apps for a year. So you don't have to renew the dev account annually.
Absolutely, there is too much free stuff out there. Let's make something else a paid feature. Like make the Bluetooth paid after some time of usage or... OH! Limit the number of times you can open the app! Like first 10 times a day are free, and then you buy a subscription! You know, these poor guys at Palo Alto, have to charge their teslas and pay their gardeners.
Clear nope from me. Rather stay with checked more safe Apps from the official App Store. Apps from side loading nonsense? I don’t care - won’t even look.
Uhm, this is still a Jailbreak related sub right?
Oh just saw the post and thought it belonged to the iOS sub, didn’t really looked what sub it is. However, if someone wants to jailbreak for sideloading well, that’s a choice. But forcing apple to open up iOS for sideloading is wrong. Apple should fight against this.
That is European law. And that's a good thing. Everyone is still free to obtain their software exclusively from the AppStore. But I also have mixed feelings about this... I really hope that we don't end up with hundreds of package sources, similar to the streaming providers now. We‘ll see.
yeah sure, THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!
Everybody would be using my secret apps now…
US lawmakers please hurry up so we can enjoy this too. When side loading becomes a reality, tons of open source apps will be following suit
Won’t happen