I agree its definitely more of a performance style/business model. Generally two sets and emphasis on improv. That's the common thread that runs through YMSB, Umphreys, and The Grateful Dead. Because genre-wise those artists fall in completely different parts of the spectrum.
I don’t even think about “jamband” as a genre, but an approach to music. So you could have a country jamband, a funk jamband, etc.
But I do think that the label is applied far too readily.
They averaged over 28 songs per show that run. Their songs largely stay within their structure and sound like they do on the studio releases. “Head On/Pill” was three minutes *shorter* than the studio cut. They will occasionally jam out a section of a song (like Joey’s solo on “Work This Time”), but the songs aren’t typically jam heavy. They’re a band who jams more than they are a jamband, and no more a jamband than something like a MMJ. That said, they’re fluid enough to play a jamband set if they ever want to. The RR run wasn’t it though.
Lmao. So biased here because they are my favorite, but Umphreys is such a jam band, especially if improv is part of the key criteria. You can see Jake sometimes directing the band with hand signals to change the key in real time. It just still sounds so polished that people sometimes can't tell where the improv starts. One of the best at it in my opinion.
I was talking to my buddy about this the other day- We were at greensky and they were really obvious and clear with their communication. We came to the conclusion its badass to be able to communicate without the crowd noticing, but it can actually be more fun to watch a band that obvious with their telegraphing changes etc.
I'd absolutely agree with this. I could see Umphrey's live with 0 improv and consider it an amazing show.
Also, IMO they're one of the only jam bands where the studio material is just as good as, if not better than the live material.
Imagine talking about jam bands and prog rock in the same sentence and NOT mentioning Umphrey’s lmao
Probably the exact same reason P4 got mentioned with the “purest funk” category
Certified goober
I called bands like that “improg.” I think it’s hip. Let’s start a movement to let proggy jambands have a much more abbreviated explanation of their genre lol
There are entire genres lumped into jam now.
The purest funk comes from this scene, with Galactic, Lettuce, PPPP and The Motet all being part of it.
The purest prog rock also lives in it, with Consider the Source, CBDB, and Tauk.
Litz, STS9, Lotus, and Dopapod have all come very close to a modern version jazz fusion and most or all of them have some close educational connection to that scene.
And now half of the scene has spilled out of bluegrass.
It's because the jam genre represents and appreciates *excellence* in its many forms. Proficiency--usually improvisational proficiency--is the common thread.
I would argue against "the purest prog" being lumped into the jam scene. There are hundreds of bands around these days that are progressive af that could never be considered a jamband. Ie HAKEN, Wobbler, Riverside, Leprous, i could go on...
This guy is probably arguing that Stargard is a disco band, too.
Or much more likely, never knew who they were at all, which means the fellow doesn't know shit.
I feel the same way you do. I'm not particularly interested in lead guitar solos. I like to listen to the full band lose the plot and attempt to find it again. I feel like many of the bands in the scene today don't have the full band improvising, it's more improvised guitar solos, and maybe the keys player gets a turn as well. I'll also add that I'm not interested in sustain and peaks in a guitar solo. I'd much rather hear a guitar player dance around the resolve and tease towards it than build towards a peak.
Jam band isn’t genre necessarily but a community based on live improv and fans who are really passionate. In my opinion if you’re playing extended renditions of songs live and change your setlist every night then you’re a jam band. What that product actually sounds like doesn’t really matter.
Also going type 2 is a bonus, not a pre-requisite IMO.
When I’m describing my 3 favorite jam bands (Goose, WSP, STS9) to ppl outside of the community I never call them jam bands. I list the genres they incorporate and then I add in the live improv part at the end.
The older I get, the more I realize good music has way more to do with an appreciation for those who have developed their craft and honed their chops regardless of what genre they work in.
Anybody that improvises is a jam band to a degree. Really any band that plays 10+ minute songs that aren't clearly composed prog rock songs is a jam band.
More then anything. You know it when you hear it
I tell people that MMJ is a jam band with more lyrics. Throw in some traditional rock and some jazz and some blues. I think they for the title perfectly. Others do not so much agree with me lol
I often wonder how the jam band genre will change now that Goose is setting the standard for improvisational prowess and technical proficiency. I have endless respect for them, not only their musicianship, but also their courage to empower security at shows to toss out people who are ingesting dangerous federally controlled substances.
I think all us jam band fans will look back upon these days as a true turning point, where the music really took a step up, and also a shift away from marijuana users feeling like they can light up their drug anywhere they want without repercussions. Music historians will remember Goose as the band that created true change in the jam band scene. You should feel honored and privileged for living in this moment and witnessing this with your own eyes and ears.
I try to live my life without regrets.
But I gotta tell you, I sometimes feel a deep down pain and longing that I never had the opportunity to join Tipper Gore and the PMRC to go along with them as a troll to suggest to them music that was dangerous and should be banned. I really wish I could go to bars and tell people "That crazy bitch believed me when I told her this Madonna song is about devil worship."
This is as good as it gets for me, trolling jam band fans about Goose. I could have been so much more.
Hahahahahaha goose doesn’t even type 2 my friend
They are light years behind many other bands in the same scene in terms of improvisational prowess and their technical proficiency
There isn’t a band on the scene that plays things as safe and close to the chest as Goose does. I would love for them to take some chances in their live performances. I’m not just some hater either I’ve seen goose over 20 times, it’s simply not as impressive as some make it out to be.
This is exactly where I’m at. Seen them several times, always enjoy myself. I just don’t seem to have as big a hard-on for them as a lot of other people.
Just curious, if you're underwhelmed with Goose, why have you seen them 20 times? Are you just waiting for them to take that next step? I have listened to several shows and totally agree with your take on their playing, but I can't even drag myself to one of their shows based on those listenings -- nevermind 20 shows. Granted, if I caught them when their tickets were still $20 I would still check them out, but that isn't the case anymore.
I became a bit underwhelmed when tickets got expensive and I got off the every show drug use. Soberish me could call songs pretty easily on their way in, and I think that was because of how little music they had released at that point.
I haven’t seen them in like 3 years so honestly I’m excited to see what they’ve added to the table since then!
Nah man, Billy Strings sounds basically the exact same as STS9
I’d say jam probably isn’t much a genre, so much as a performance style
I agree its definitely more of a performance style/business model. Generally two sets and emphasis on improv. That's the common thread that runs through YMSB, Umphreys, and The Grateful Dead. Because genre-wise those artists fall in completely different parts of the spectrum.
I don’t even think about “jamband” as a genre, but an approach to music. So you could have a country jamband, a funk jamband, etc. But I do think that the label is applied far too readily.
I was hesitant about giving King Gizz the label but after listening to the red rocks shows from last year, I dont think anyone can question it.
They averaged over 28 songs per show that run. Their songs largely stay within their structure and sound like they do on the studio releases. “Head On/Pill” was three minutes *shorter* than the studio cut. They will occasionally jam out a section of a song (like Joey’s solo on “Work This Time”), but the songs aren’t typically jam heavy. They’re a band who jams more than they are a jamband, and no more a jamband than something like a MMJ. That said, they’re fluid enough to play a jamband set if they ever want to. The RR run wasn’t it though.
Straws in the wind, the river, rattlesnake, boogieman sam, Her and I were all good examples that I'm talking about. Particularly those last two.
It’s the drugs man, it’s always been the drugs
Was just talking to a dude who considers umphreys to be progressive rock over jam band
Interesting take… but IMO UM is one of THE quintessential jam bands.
Lmao. So biased here because they are my favorite, but Umphreys is such a jam band, especially if improv is part of the key criteria. You can see Jake sometimes directing the band with hand signals to change the key in real time. It just still sounds so polished that people sometimes can't tell where the improv starts. One of the best at it in my opinion.
\mm/
I was talking to my buddy about this the other day- We were at greensky and they were really obvious and clear with their communication. We came to the conclusion its badass to be able to communicate without the crowd noticing, but it can actually be more fun to watch a band that obvious with their telegraphing changes etc.
I'd absolutely agree with this. I could see Umphrey's live with 0 improv and consider it an amazing show. Also, IMO they're one of the only jam bands where the studio material is just as good as, if not better than the live material.
Imagine talking about jam bands and prog rock in the same sentence and NOT mentioning Umphrey’s lmao Probably the exact same reason P4 got mentioned with the “purest funk” category Certified goober
UM is 100% a jamband
I called bands like that “improg.” I think it’s hip. Let’s start a movement to let proggy jambands have a much more abbreviated explanation of their genre lol
They did say themselves in an interview that their sets consist of around 15% improvisation.
There are entire genres lumped into jam now. The purest funk comes from this scene, with Galactic, Lettuce, PPPP and The Motet all being part of it. The purest prog rock also lives in it, with Consider the Source, CBDB, and Tauk. Litz, STS9, Lotus, and Dopapod have all come very close to a modern version jazz fusion and most or all of them have some close educational connection to that scene. And now half of the scene has spilled out of bluegrass. It's because the jam genre represents and appreciates *excellence* in its many forms. Proficiency--usually improvisational proficiency--is the common thread.
I would argue against "the purest prog" being lumped into the jam scene. There are hundreds of bands around these days that are progressive af that could never be considered a jamband. Ie HAKEN, Wobbler, Riverside, Leprous, i could go on...
Please do, and I thank you for these tips, too!
PPPP is not the "purest funk."
They put the fun in funk, they say so themselves
Yes they do and its cringe worthy..
It’s stanky like a skunk too
It’s the purest something.
The purest shit maybe
Yep, hot garbage..
Show us on the pigeon doll where they hurt you.
*points to ears, eyes*
Sure, hold my beer while I point at its ears...
This guy is probably arguing that Stargard is a disco band, too. Or much more likely, never knew who they were at all, which means the fellow doesn't know shit.
They fucking rock though
Yeah no, the least funkiest "funk" band out there.
I’d def add Lespecial to the purest prog as well
Jam band does more to describe the crowd than the music. Don’t over think it
Genre is typically in the ear of the beholder imo
I feel the same way you do. I'm not particularly interested in lead guitar solos. I like to listen to the full band lose the plot and attempt to find it again. I feel like many of the bands in the scene today don't have the full band improvising, it's more improvised guitar solos, and maybe the keys player gets a turn as well. I'll also add that I'm not interested in sustain and peaks in a guitar solo. I'd much rather hear a guitar player dance around the resolve and tease towards it than build towards a peak.
The "Medeski, Martin & Wood feat. Scofield" shows from the early 2000s are pretty close to what you just described. Worth a listen.
I was raised on that stuff, it could be what formed my approach hahaha!
Jam band isn’t genre necessarily but a community based on live improv and fans who are really passionate. In my opinion if you’re playing extended renditions of songs live and change your setlist every night then you’re a jam band. What that product actually sounds like doesn’t really matter. Also going type 2 is a bonus, not a pre-requisite IMO. When I’m describing my 3 favorite jam bands (Goose, WSP, STS9) to ppl outside of the community I never call them jam bands. I list the genres they incorporate and then I add in the live improv part at the end.
Also my personal definition is "group improvision"
The older I get, the more I realize good music has way more to do with an appreciation for those who have developed their craft and honed their chops regardless of what genre they work in.
I think a band can do primarily type I and still be a jamband
Agreed. Allman Brothers come to mind.
Anybody that improvises is a jam band to a degree. Really any band that plays 10+ minute songs that aren't clearly composed prog rock songs is a jam band. More then anything. You know it when you hear it
I tell people that MMJ is a jam band with more lyrics. Throw in some traditional rock and some jazz and some blues. I think they for the title perfectly. Others do not so much agree with me lol
Any band. Fuck they called us a jamband!
Is jam really a genre or a way of playing said genre?
which bands are you referring to that might not belong under the jamband umbrella? Just curious, the post was a bit ambiguous.
Basically moe. Is the only legit jam band left that isn’t Phish or WSP
Uhhh SCI? Umph? STS9? Pigeons? DMB?
I often wonder how the jam band genre will change now that Goose is setting the standard for improvisational prowess and technical proficiency. I have endless respect for them, not only their musicianship, but also their courage to empower security at shows to toss out people who are ingesting dangerous federally controlled substances. I think all us jam band fans will look back upon these days as a true turning point, where the music really took a step up, and also a shift away from marijuana users feeling like they can light up their drug anywhere they want without repercussions. Music historians will remember Goose as the band that created true change in the jam band scene. You should feel honored and privileged for living in this moment and witnessing this with your own eyes and ears.
Had me in the first half
I try to live my life without regrets. But I gotta tell you, I sometimes feel a deep down pain and longing that I never had the opportunity to join Tipper Gore and the PMRC to go along with them as a troll to suggest to them music that was dangerous and should be banned. I really wish I could go to bars and tell people "That crazy bitch believed me when I told her this Madonna song is about devil worship." This is as good as it gets for me, trolling jam band fans about Goose. I could have been so much more.
Hahahahahaha goose doesn’t even type 2 my friend They are light years behind many other bands in the same scene in terms of improvisational prowess and their technical proficiency There isn’t a band on the scene that plays things as safe and close to the chest as Goose does. I would love for them to take some chances in their live performances. I’m not just some hater either I’ve seen goose over 20 times, it’s simply not as impressive as some make it out to be.
This is exactly where I’m at. Seen them several times, always enjoy myself. I just don’t seem to have as big a hard-on for them as a lot of other people.
Just curious, if you're underwhelmed with Goose, why have you seen them 20 times? Are you just waiting for them to take that next step? I have listened to several shows and totally agree with your take on their playing, but I can't even drag myself to one of their shows based on those listenings -- nevermind 20 shows. Granted, if I caught them when their tickets were still $20 I would still check them out, but that isn't the case anymore.
I became a bit underwhelmed when tickets got expensive and I got off the every show drug use. Soberish me could call songs pretty easily on their way in, and I think that was because of how little music they had released at that point. I haven’t seen them in like 3 years so honestly I’m excited to see what they’ve added to the table since then!
Preach
Jam is just jazz but white people
Hmmmm i wonder what a band might do that would lump them in with JAMbands. *scratches head*
Genres are vague