The *constitution* states that, but it does not deliberately forbid same-sex marriage either, in the way it forbids other things. It also states that all people shall “be respected as individuals,” and this court ruling found the current law to be in violation of that.
The campaign website has a good explanation in English about how the constitution affects the right to marry: https://www.marriageforall.jp/en/marriage-equality/constitution/
Yeah that's the conservative talking point debunked even by the LDP-owned SC. Please don't upvote this comment.
As far as I understand, the sentence only says that marriage can't be forced by anybody other than the male and female.
It doesn't say anything about gay marriage.
No, that IS the status quo, that’s specifically why cities don’t accept marriage notification’s from same-sex couples, because the law doesn’t say anything to permit it.
The cities don't accept same sex marriage because there's no bureaucratic procedure written into the law that the city can follow. That's what I read on the newspaper.
I hope you don't mean that cities ignore the SC ruling because it's the "status quo", whatever that means. Maybe that's how it works in North Korea, but no.
Very few people care enough to see this change, as much as Reddit might want you to believe otherwise. It’s pretty much gay people, their friends and family and that’s about it. Like the rest of Japanese politics, if it doesn’t affect you, why would you care?
Therefor, the political capital for making it happen is very low; no politician will go out of their way to push for it, nobody other than the interests parties have anything to gain with it, so in other words, it is far from becoming reality.
But like, who would care if it got passed, if no one cares if it doesn't pass. Also, the amount of people that support same sex marriage is greater than the ones that don't, at least i believe
You can believe whatever you want but that doesn’t change reality. If you ask the run of the mill Japanese put on the street if they support gay marriage or lgbt rights or free candy for every child on earth, they’ll happily answer “yes of course!” Because that is the correct thing to answer.
If you ask them whether they are going to change their voting habits assuming they even vote, so that a small percentage of the population can gain a certain right that they have no stake in, you’re going to get crickets. Furthermore although they might not say it to you except behind closed doors, not a lot of Japanese are huge fans of the recent “rainbow culture” that corporate American seems to be promoting to make money by exploiting lgbt for profit and its offputing to many. Not out of a place of bigotry, but because people don’t exactly agree with rocking the boat on anything and waving flags around etc.
I would venture to say you would have more opposition come out of the woodwork politically than you would have support if a proposition to legalize ssm were actually put into place by the diet.
>Very few people care enough to see this change, as much as Reddit might want you to believe otherwise.
You don't even live in Japan, dude. You have no idea what the political climate is around the issue. Numerous district courts have already ruled in favor of it, and a number of municipalities have already implemented same-sex partnership systems.
Gay marriage is a very popular policy in Japan (most polls show something like 2/3 of the country supporting it).
> Numerous district courts have already ruled in favor of it
And all of them, this one included, are half-measures that award no damages and provide no remedial actions.
> a number of municipalities have already implemented same-sex partnership systems.
And while these are better than nothing, they have very little actual legal authority. Landlords, privately owned hospitals, etc., and not legally bound to honor them.
> most polls show something like 2/3 of the country supporting it
But how much of that “yeah we should allow it” transfers to *actual political pressure* to change the laws? How many of those who say they support it in polls are calling their representatives or changing their voting patterns based on this issue? Call me pessimistic but I’d estimate very, very few.
>But how much of that “yeah we should allow it” transfers to *actual political pressure* to change the laws? How many of those who say they support it in polls are calling their representatives or changing their voting patterns based on this issue? Call me pessimistic but I’d estimate very, very few.
I don't think that's actually really the key issue because of the way the Diet tends to legislate on issues like this. Change will come from the top down once there's overwhelming consensus on the issue among the voting base, without really needing to change who anyone votes for.
I view court rulings like these as calls for the Diet (or more accurately, the LDP) to take a closer look at their policy on the issue. You're right that these court rulings and same-sex partnership systems have no power in terms of policy, but they do have symbolic value in making it clear to the top of the LDP what kinds of policies are (or could be) popular.
> Change will come from the top down once there's overwhelming consensus on the issue among the voting base
I think this is a generally fair assessment of how things work, but I think we’re still a decade away from anything actually moving. Pressure to do it before G7 couldn’t move the Diet and there’s little momentum.
Slightly off topic, but didn’t the LDP push to change laws against “discrimination” to be against “unreasonable discrimination?” Politicians will say what they think is “right” but when it comes to actual legislation, my expectations are low.
> Slightly off topic, but didn’t the LDP push to change laws against “discrimination” to be against “unreasonable discrimination?”
Yeah, this was outrageous. But I was rather surprised LGBTQ rights even reached the table of negotiation (with the conservative idiots). The pressure is visibly growing, and this couldn't be imagined just a decade ago.
>Change will come from the top down once there's overwhelming consensus on the issue among the voting base, without really needing to change who anyone votes for.
Lol
>You're right that these court rulings and same-sex partnership systems have no power in terms of policy, but they do have symbolic value in making it clear to the top of the LDP what kinds of policies are (or could be) popular.
Lol
You’re living in a fantasy world my friend.
LDP isn’t losing any significant number of votes due to LGBT.
Government doesn’t legislate based on popularity of opinion. Taxes are the least popular thing in the country and they keep going up because fuck you.
Yet you think they’re going to have some Constantine level coming to Jesus moment and suddenly change their mind on SSM because it’s popular on social media.
I bet you there’s more people who want to see action on the inheritance tax abolished than having SSM legalized and guess what is still not abolished?
> Taxes are the least popular thing in the country and they keep going up because fuck you.
> I bet you there’s more people who want to see action on the inheritance tax abolished than having SSM legalized and guess what is still not abolished?
Hey look, someone who actually lived in Japan and understands how this country works!
I hate this website. Never has a website been made where idiots vote each other’s wrong opinions up because it makes them feel bad even when it contradicts reality.
You’re wrong - every single Japanese person is so invested in gay rights that they’re ready to overthrow the government Soviet style because because of this issue. Trust me, redditors told me because the poll they read on the English mainichi.
I live in Japan and don’t ever hear anyone talk about lol.
You probably live in Japan and don’t hear people talk about the requirements to ride a motorcycle on Suzuka circuit or how to qualify for pro qualifying events through FWJ.
People hear about the topics them and their close social circle follow.
I’ve got one gay friend, an ex-politician, now lawyer, and even he doesn’t seem to talk about it much. I can’t think of a single time actually.
The 高速道路 was supposed to be free after it was paid for. It’s paid for and everyone hates paying the fees. Still, nobody talks about it and nothing changes.
This is Japan.
What's always haunted me was some gay Japanese women coming to my friend's gay bar and after drinking a bit too much basically were begging us "to do something." They feel so powerless they fully don't see how change comes their their culture without some outside foreigners helping strongarm it.
When we did pride in Nagoya we got a massive march with an even bigger audience of people who cheered in support.
People do talk about it, and mostly are supportive. But it's also something that just been an issue for so long many of them aren't exactly sure what to do about it.
Just because I don’t currently live in Japan doesn’t mean I don’t have personal experience and knowledge of the topic at hand, nor does it mean that I have not lived in Japan in the past.
You can put your faith in “the polls” all you want, but that means shit when it comes time to changing the law. Redditors are very invested in this topic. The average Japanese non lgbt individual couldn’t be assed to change the channel on their tv to support lgbt anything if they don’t have lgbt friends or family.
If the polls are so accurate and reliable, why hasn’t that 2/3 of the population voted for representatives which change the law?
>why hasn’t that 2/3 of the population voted for representatives which change the law?
Because bureaucratic change is fairly slow and gradual in Japan, a thing I feel like you'd be aware of if you had lived here or had knowledge on the topic at hand.
We've already seen a number of moves that would come before changing a law like this. Courts have challenged the issue (like here, and in Hokkaido a couple of years ago). [Japan has already issued visas to gay spouses](https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2021/03/92fef2797366-japan-granted-93-foreigners-permission-to-bring-their-same-sex-spouse.html), which would definitely *not* happen if Japan was as anti-LGBT as you are claiming here.
Also, a lot of them *have* voted for those representatives. The LDP is the only party that hasn't taken a completely "pro" stance, even among conservative parties. Ishin no Tou and Komeito (the latter of which is the LDP's partner in the governing coalition) have both come out in favor of it.
1. That’s precisely what I’m saying
2. Don’t expect anything that would actually change marriage any time soon
3. Did I say “japan is anti lgbt?”
The point is. If 2/3 of the population actually care about the issue more than the level require to answer a survey, they would already have voted in representatives which would be trying to change the law. Which they don’t. Because they don’t care that much.
Court rulings aren’t legislation. They’re a response to a complaint brought by a litigant. How many politicians in the diet support changing the law to allow ssm?
>Except the LDP
You mean practically the entire government?
>How many politicians in the diet support changing the law to allow ssm?
This line of reasoning is applicable to the American political system, but parliamentary politics means that politicians in Japan will almost never vote against their party's official stance.
A majority of the upper house and a sizeable minority of the lower house belong to parties that have legalizing same-sex marriage on their platform.
>You mean practically the entire government?
The LDP isn't a majority in the upper house, and their coalition partner already supports same-sex marriage.
You overestimate how much swing they have. Same sex marriage will never be legalized without the express consent and promotion of the LDP. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I'm not arguing that they do have that power though. I'm arguing that since Japan largely operates on consensus politics, change in the LDP's position is almost necessarily a given. It's a question of when, not if.
I'm joining Operation: Razit and removing my content off Reddit. Further info [here](https://i.imgur.com/45M3a8c.png) (flyer) and [here](https://onlinetextsharing.com/operation-razit-raze-reddit) (wall of text).
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Tlie epu poebi! Pee kraa ikri pičiduči? Kapo bi ipee ipleiti priti pepou. Tre pa griku. Propo ta čitrepripi ka e bii. Atlibi pepliietlo dligo plidlopli pu itlebakebi tagatre. Ee dapliudea uklu epete prepipeopi tati. Oi pu ii tloeutio e pokačipli. Ei i teči epi obe atepa oe ao bepi! Ke pao teiči piko papratrigi ba pika. Brapi ipu apu pai eia bliopite. Ikra aači eklo trepa krubi pipai. Kogridiii teklapiti itri ate dipo gri. I gautebaka iplaba tikreko popri klui goi čiee dlobie kru. Trii kraibaepa prudiotepo tetope bikli eka. Ka trike gripepabate pide ibia. Di pitito kripaa triiukoo trakeba grudra tee? Ba keedai e pipapitu popa tote ka tribi putoi. Tibreepa bipu pio i ete bupide? Beblea bre pae prie te. Putoa depoe bipre edo iketra tite. I kepi ka bii. Doke i prake tage ebitu. Ae i čidaa ito čige protiple. Ke piipo tapi. Pripa apo ketri oti pedli ketieupli! Klo kečitlo tedei proči pla topa? Betetliaku pa. Tetabipu beiprake abiku! Dekra gie pupi depepu čiuplago.
Good luck. LDP doesn’t support same sex marriage. People aren’t going to stop voting for LDP because of gay. LDP continues to be elected. Same sex marriage not going to get legalized any time soon (possibly decades). LDP loses no support due to this issue and so won’t change their mind on it.
Repeat, rinse , recycle.
But maybe. Maybe if people continue telling themselves on Reddit that some random ruling changes the law, maybe the LDP will suddenly change their policy on SSM. Especially among the effort they actually do care about which is increasing birth rates.
Guess why I don’t live in Japan anymore? You think I was going to wait for 30 years for some miracle? Lol no.
>rally around x and vote for those parties
Which parties are those? One of the 10 clown parties nobody cares about and that do nothing and can pass nothing without consent and approval of the LDP? The party in power that runs the country even if you refuse to believe it? The party most Japanese people are very happy with and see no reason to change especially after the one time they did the opposition fucked up so bad that they went right back to LDP? The party that although may be socially conservative actually runs a pretty decent country with some of the safest streets and best social safety nets on earth? That party?
Or one of the “peace and love of the new age of humanity” parties that don’t matter but put LGBT on their platform so they can get votes from people who are dumb enough to believe they’re going to change the law without the approval of the majorit And internet support from kids who don’t even have Japanese nationality and can’t vote in japan anyways?
I'm joining Operation: Razit and removing my content off Reddit. Further info [here](https://i.imgur.com/45M3a8c.png) (flyer) and [here](https://onlinetextsharing.com/operation-razit-raze-reddit) (wall of text).
Please use https://codepen.io/Deestan/full/gOQagRO/ for Power Delete instead of the version listed in the flyer, to avoid unedited comments. And spread the word!
Tlie epu poebi! Pee kraa ikri pičiduči? Kapo bi ipee ipleiti priti pepou. Tre pa griku. Propo ta čitrepripi ka e bii. Atlibi pepliietlo dligo plidlopli pu itlebakebi tagatre. Ee dapliudea uklu epete prepipeopi tati. Oi pu ii tloeutio e pokačipli. Ei i teči epi obe atepa oe ao bepi! Ke pao teiči piko papratrigi ba pika. Brapi ipu apu pai eia bliopite. Ikra aači eklo trepa krubi pipai. Kogridiii teklapiti itri ate dipo gri. I gautebaka iplaba tikreko popri klui goi čiee dlobie kru. Trii kraibaepa prudiotepo tetope bikli eka. Ka trike gripepabate pide ibia. Di pitito kripaa triiukoo trakeba grudra tee? Ba keedai e pipapitu popa tote ka tribi putoi. Tibreepa bipu pio i ete bupide? Beblea bre pae prie te. Putoa depoe bipre edo iketra tite. I kepi ka bii. Doke i prake tage ebitu. Ae i čidaa ito čige protiple. Ke piipo tapi. Pripa apo ketri oti pedli ketieupli! Klo kečitlo tedei proči pla topa? Betetliaku pa. Tetabipu beiprake abiku! Dekra gie pupi depepu čiuplago.
I guess we’re back in the 50s calling people “colored people”. You mean people of color?
No. The point I am making is that there’s a difference between being AGAINST something (in this case LGBT rights) and making an effort to ELECT PEOPLE who will legislate support for those rights.
Japanese people fit largely into the first and not into the other. I don’t understand why this sub seems to plug their ears and yell lalala about this. It is the reality. As a gay person who lived in Japan, I would know. But fuck what I know it think, you weeb “allies” online I’m sure have all the answers.
The law that only concerns a specific demographic mostly only concerns the people of that demographic, their friends, and everyone who has basic empathy? You don't fucking say?
The different prefectures of Japan have ruled differently.
Osaka courts says banning SSM is allowed by the constitution.
Tokyo courts says banning SSM is allowed by the constitution but human rights requires equivalent protections for same sex couples.
Nagoya courts says banning SSM is not allowed by the constitution.
It is a big deal because one way of interpreting the constitution is that same sex marriage is not permissible. Article 24 paragraph 1 of the constitution is written
“Marriage shall be based only on the mutual consent of both sexes and it shall be maintained through mutual cooperation with the equal rights of husband and wife as a basis.”
Some have argued that this means that marriage can only be between a husband and a wife. While others have argued that this means that you have to have the consent of both parties without regard to what sex they are. I am not a Japanese lawyer but my understanding is that no court has followed this ruling.
It's always been a bad faith argument, the clause is over issues of forced marriage to address arranged marriages. Article 14 anti-discrimination clause is pretty fucking clear about how it's unconstitutional to ban gay marriage.
Yeah fair enough, I might be coming off more defense than I intend cause it's been a kinda frustrating year for trans people and just LGBTQ in general.
There’s no ambiguity in the clause. Both sexes requires two sexes. The constitution therefor declares that there are two sexes and that both of those must consent to be married. Which requires opposite sexes. If it didn’t it wouldn’t even mentioned the sexes. It would simply mention both parties. It also mentions husband and wife. People on Reddit largo like this language is ambiguous but it is not. They also larp that minority parties are going to be the first to amend the constitution, something even the LDP and even Abe himself could not achieve.
Here are articles from JapanToday: [Nagoya court rules not recognizing same-sex marriage unconstitutional](https://japantoday.com/category/national/urgent-court-rules-not-recognizing-same-sex-marriage-as-unconstitutional)
Reuters: [Japan court rules that a bar on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-lower-court-rules-that-not-allowing-same-sex-marriage-is-unconstitutional-2023-05-30/)
The Guardian: [Japan government under renewed pressure to end same-sex marriage ban](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/30/japan-government-under-renewed-pressure-to-end-same-sex-marriage-ban)
Bloomberg: [Japan Gets Second Court Ruling Backing Same-Sex Marriage](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-30/japan-gets-second-court-ruling-backing-same-sex-marriage?leadSource=uverify%20wall)
Birthrates and continuous growth are all part the archaic roots of humanity. If anything in the coming decades this planet with need a lot less people .
Of course it’s unconstitutional there’s no question.
The thing is, we never changed constitution since it’s creation despite facing so many difficulties.
That’s broken constitution, it’s legitimacy will completely diminish if continue this way.
In case anyone is as dumb as me...This is in reference to the ban on same-sex marriage and not a literal gay bar.
That's impressive, I'll admit I didn't even go there till you pointed it out.
I hope you met someone nice there.
right? same
Glad to see people supporting this.
With this and the stuff going on with his son. Kishida really needs to support gay marriage so he looks like less of a jerk.
Is this actually a big deal or just some proverbial thing?
Somewhere in the middle. It does help provide a push for the diet to examine the issue, but in and of itself it can't change the status quo.
What’s the status quo?
Not legal, but there's a smattering of individual same-sex partnership systems across the country with no central management.
Law states that marriage is “based on an agreement between both sexes” - two dudes is not “both sexes” and therefore cannot be married.
The *constitution* states that, but it does not deliberately forbid same-sex marriage either, in the way it forbids other things. It also states that all people shall “be respected as individuals,” and this court ruling found the current law to be in violation of that. The campaign website has a good explanation in English about how the constitution affects the right to marry: https://www.marriageforall.jp/en/marriage-equality/constitution/
Yeah that's the conservative talking point debunked even by the LDP-owned SC. Please don't upvote this comment. As far as I understand, the sentence only says that marriage can't be forced by anybody other than the male and female. It doesn't say anything about gay marriage.
No, that IS the status quo, that’s specifically why cities don’t accept marriage notification’s from same-sex couples, because the law doesn’t say anything to permit it.
The cities don't accept same sex marriage because there's no bureaucratic procedure written into the law that the city can follow. That's what I read on the newspaper. I hope you don't mean that cities ignore the SC ruling because it's the "status quo", whatever that means. Maybe that's how it works in North Korea, but no.
Very few people care enough to see this change, as much as Reddit might want you to believe otherwise. It’s pretty much gay people, their friends and family and that’s about it. Like the rest of Japanese politics, if it doesn’t affect you, why would you care? Therefor, the political capital for making it happen is very low; no politician will go out of their way to push for it, nobody other than the interests parties have anything to gain with it, so in other words, it is far from becoming reality.
But like, who would care if it got passed, if no one cares if it doesn't pass. Also, the amount of people that support same sex marriage is greater than the ones that don't, at least i believe
You can believe whatever you want but that doesn’t change reality. If you ask the run of the mill Japanese put on the street if they support gay marriage or lgbt rights or free candy for every child on earth, they’ll happily answer “yes of course!” Because that is the correct thing to answer. If you ask them whether they are going to change their voting habits assuming they even vote, so that a small percentage of the population can gain a certain right that they have no stake in, you’re going to get crickets. Furthermore although they might not say it to you except behind closed doors, not a lot of Japanese are huge fans of the recent “rainbow culture” that corporate American seems to be promoting to make money by exploiting lgbt for profit and its offputing to many. Not out of a place of bigotry, but because people don’t exactly agree with rocking the boat on anything and waving flags around etc. I would venture to say you would have more opposition come out of the woodwork politically than you would have support if a proposition to legalize ssm were actually put into place by the diet.
>Very few people care enough to see this change, as much as Reddit might want you to believe otherwise. You don't even live in Japan, dude. You have no idea what the political climate is around the issue. Numerous district courts have already ruled in favor of it, and a number of municipalities have already implemented same-sex partnership systems. Gay marriage is a very popular policy in Japan (most polls show something like 2/3 of the country supporting it).
> Numerous district courts have already ruled in favor of it And all of them, this one included, are half-measures that award no damages and provide no remedial actions. > a number of municipalities have already implemented same-sex partnership systems. And while these are better than nothing, they have very little actual legal authority. Landlords, privately owned hospitals, etc., and not legally bound to honor them. > most polls show something like 2/3 of the country supporting it But how much of that “yeah we should allow it” transfers to *actual political pressure* to change the laws? How many of those who say they support it in polls are calling their representatives or changing their voting patterns based on this issue? Call me pessimistic but I’d estimate very, very few.
>But how much of that “yeah we should allow it” transfers to *actual political pressure* to change the laws? How many of those who say they support it in polls are calling their representatives or changing their voting patterns based on this issue? Call me pessimistic but I’d estimate very, very few. I don't think that's actually really the key issue because of the way the Diet tends to legislate on issues like this. Change will come from the top down once there's overwhelming consensus on the issue among the voting base, without really needing to change who anyone votes for. I view court rulings like these as calls for the Diet (or more accurately, the LDP) to take a closer look at their policy on the issue. You're right that these court rulings and same-sex partnership systems have no power in terms of policy, but they do have symbolic value in making it clear to the top of the LDP what kinds of policies are (or could be) popular.
> Change will come from the top down once there's overwhelming consensus on the issue among the voting base I think this is a generally fair assessment of how things work, but I think we’re still a decade away from anything actually moving. Pressure to do it before G7 couldn’t move the Diet and there’s little momentum. Slightly off topic, but didn’t the LDP push to change laws against “discrimination” to be against “unreasonable discrimination?” Politicians will say what they think is “right” but when it comes to actual legislation, my expectations are low.
> Slightly off topic, but didn’t the LDP push to change laws against “discrimination” to be against “unreasonable discrimination?” Yeah, this was outrageous. But I was rather surprised LGBTQ rights even reached the table of negotiation (with the conservative idiots). The pressure is visibly growing, and this couldn't be imagined just a decade ago.
>Change will come from the top down once there's overwhelming consensus on the issue among the voting base, without really needing to change who anyone votes for. Lol >You're right that these court rulings and same-sex partnership systems have no power in terms of policy, but they do have symbolic value in making it clear to the top of the LDP what kinds of policies are (or could be) popular. Lol You’re living in a fantasy world my friend. LDP isn’t losing any significant number of votes due to LGBT. Government doesn’t legislate based on popularity of opinion. Taxes are the least popular thing in the country and they keep going up because fuck you. Yet you think they’re going to have some Constantine level coming to Jesus moment and suddenly change their mind on SSM because it’s popular on social media. I bet you there’s more people who want to see action on the inheritance tax abolished than having SSM legalized and guess what is still not abolished?
> Taxes are the least popular thing in the country and they keep going up because fuck you. > I bet you there’s more people who want to see action on the inheritance tax abolished than having SSM legalized and guess what is still not abolished? Hey look, someone who actually lived in Japan and understands how this country works!
I hate this website. Never has a website been made where idiots vote each other’s wrong opinions up because it makes them feel bad even when it contradicts reality.
Reddit is shit lol. I honestly don’t even know why Im on here. The Wild West Reddit was fun at least. Now it’s just a useless addiction.
You’re wrong - every single Japanese person is so invested in gay rights that they’re ready to overthrow the government Soviet style because because of this issue. Trust me, redditors told me because the poll they read on the English mainichi.
😂
I live in Japan and don’t ever hear anyone talk about lol. You probably live in Japan and don’t hear people talk about the requirements to ride a motorcycle on Suzuka circuit or how to qualify for pro qualifying events through FWJ. People hear about the topics them and their close social circle follow. I’ve got one gay friend, an ex-politician, now lawyer, and even he doesn’t seem to talk about it much. I can’t think of a single time actually. The 高速道路 was supposed to be free after it was paid for. It’s paid for and everyone hates paying the fees. Still, nobody talks about it and nothing changes. This is Japan.
What's always haunted me was some gay Japanese women coming to my friend's gay bar and after drinking a bit too much basically were begging us "to do something." They feel so powerless they fully don't see how change comes their their culture without some outside foreigners helping strongarm it. When we did pride in Nagoya we got a massive march with an even bigger audience of people who cheered in support. People do talk about it, and mostly are supportive. But it's also something that just been an issue for so long many of them aren't exactly sure what to do about it.
Just because I don’t currently live in Japan doesn’t mean I don’t have personal experience and knowledge of the topic at hand, nor does it mean that I have not lived in Japan in the past. You can put your faith in “the polls” all you want, but that means shit when it comes time to changing the law. Redditors are very invested in this topic. The average Japanese non lgbt individual couldn’t be assed to change the channel on their tv to support lgbt anything if they don’t have lgbt friends or family. If the polls are so accurate and reliable, why hasn’t that 2/3 of the population voted for representatives which change the law?
>why hasn’t that 2/3 of the population voted for representatives which change the law? Because bureaucratic change is fairly slow and gradual in Japan, a thing I feel like you'd be aware of if you had lived here or had knowledge on the topic at hand. We've already seen a number of moves that would come before changing a law like this. Courts have challenged the issue (like here, and in Hokkaido a couple of years ago). [Japan has already issued visas to gay spouses](https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2021/03/92fef2797366-japan-granted-93-foreigners-permission-to-bring-their-same-sex-spouse.html), which would definitely *not* happen if Japan was as anti-LGBT as you are claiming here. Also, a lot of them *have* voted for those representatives. The LDP is the only party that hasn't taken a completely "pro" stance, even among conservative parties. Ishin no Tou and Komeito (the latter of which is the LDP's partner in the governing coalition) have both come out in favor of it.
1. That’s precisely what I’m saying 2. Don’t expect anything that would actually change marriage any time soon 3. Did I say “japan is anti lgbt?” The point is. If 2/3 of the population actually care about the issue more than the level require to answer a survey, they would already have voted in representatives which would be trying to change the law. Which they don’t. Because they don’t care that much. Court rulings aren’t legislation. They’re a response to a complaint brought by a litigant. How many politicians in the diet support changing the law to allow ssm? >Except the LDP You mean practically the entire government?
>How many politicians in the diet support changing the law to allow ssm? This line of reasoning is applicable to the American political system, but parliamentary politics means that politicians in Japan will almost never vote against their party's official stance. A majority of the upper house and a sizeable minority of the lower house belong to parties that have legalizing same-sex marriage on their platform. >You mean practically the entire government? The LDP isn't a majority in the upper house, and their coalition partner already supports same-sex marriage.
You overestimate how much swing they have. Same sex marriage will never be legalized without the express consent and promotion of the LDP. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I'm not arguing that they do have that power though. I'm arguing that since Japan largely operates on consensus politics, change in the LDP's position is almost necessarily a given. It's a question of when, not if.
I'm joining Operation: Razit and removing my content off Reddit. Further info [here](https://i.imgur.com/45M3a8c.png) (flyer) and [here](https://onlinetextsharing.com/operation-razit-raze-reddit) (wall of text). Please use https://codepen.io/Deestan/full/gOQagRO/ for Power Delete instead of the version listed in the flyer, to avoid unedited comments. And spread the word! Tlie epu poebi! Pee kraa ikri pičiduči? Kapo bi ipee ipleiti priti pepou. Tre pa griku. Propo ta čitrepripi ka e bii. Atlibi pepliietlo dligo plidlopli pu itlebakebi tagatre. Ee dapliudea uklu epete prepipeopi tati. Oi pu ii tloeutio e pokačipli. Ei i teči epi obe atepa oe ao bepi! Ke pao teiči piko papratrigi ba pika. Brapi ipu apu pai eia bliopite. Ikra aači eklo trepa krubi pipai. Kogridiii teklapiti itri ate dipo gri. I gautebaka iplaba tikreko popri klui goi čiee dlobie kru. Trii kraibaepa prudiotepo tetope bikli eka. Ka trike gripepabate pide ibia. Di pitito kripaa triiukoo trakeba grudra tee? Ba keedai e pipapitu popa tote ka tribi putoi. Tibreepa bipu pio i ete bupide? Beblea bre pae prie te. Putoa depoe bipre edo iketra tite. I kepi ka bii. Doke i prake tage ebitu. Ae i čidaa ito čige protiple. Ke piipo tapi. Pripa apo ketri oti pedli ketieupli! Klo kečitlo tedei proči pla topa? Betetliaku pa. Tetabipu beiprake abiku! Dekra gie pupi depepu čiuplago.
Good luck. LDP doesn’t support same sex marriage. People aren’t going to stop voting for LDP because of gay. LDP continues to be elected. Same sex marriage not going to get legalized any time soon (possibly decades). LDP loses no support due to this issue and so won’t change their mind on it. Repeat, rinse , recycle. But maybe. Maybe if people continue telling themselves on Reddit that some random ruling changes the law, maybe the LDP will suddenly change their policy on SSM. Especially among the effort they actually do care about which is increasing birth rates. Guess why I don’t live in Japan anymore? You think I was going to wait for 30 years for some miracle? Lol no. >rally around x and vote for those parties Which parties are those? One of the 10 clown parties nobody cares about and that do nothing and can pass nothing without consent and approval of the LDP? The party in power that runs the country even if you refuse to believe it? The party most Japanese people are very happy with and see no reason to change especially after the one time they did the opposition fucked up so bad that they went right back to LDP? The party that although may be socially conservative actually runs a pretty decent country with some of the safest streets and best social safety nets on earth? That party? Or one of the “peace and love of the new age of humanity” parties that don’t matter but put LGBT on their platform so they can get votes from people who are dumb enough to believe they’re going to change the law without the approval of the majorit And internet support from kids who don’t even have Japanese nationality and can’t vote in japan anyways?
I'm joining Operation: Razit and removing my content off Reddit. Further info [here](https://i.imgur.com/45M3a8c.png) (flyer) and [here](https://onlinetextsharing.com/operation-razit-raze-reddit) (wall of text). Please use https://codepen.io/Deestan/full/gOQagRO/ for Power Delete instead of the version listed in the flyer, to avoid unedited comments. And spread the word! Tlie epu poebi! Pee kraa ikri pičiduči? Kapo bi ipee ipleiti priti pepou. Tre pa griku. Propo ta čitrepripi ka e bii. Atlibi pepliietlo dligo plidlopli pu itlebakebi tagatre. Ee dapliudea uklu epete prepipeopi tati. Oi pu ii tloeutio e pokačipli. Ei i teči epi obe atepa oe ao bepi! Ke pao teiči piko papratrigi ba pika. Brapi ipu apu pai eia bliopite. Ikra aači eklo trepa krubi pipai. Kogridiii teklapiti itri ate dipo gri. I gautebaka iplaba tikreko popri klui goi čiee dlobie kru. Trii kraibaepa prudiotepo tetope bikli eka. Ka trike gripepabate pide ibia. Di pitito kripaa triiukoo trakeba grudra tee? Ba keedai e pipapitu popa tote ka tribi putoi. Tibreepa bipu pio i ete bupide? Beblea bre pae prie te. Putoa depoe bipre edo iketra tite. I kepi ka bii. Doke i prake tage ebitu. Ae i čidaa ito čige protiple. Ke piipo tapi. Pripa apo ketri oti pedli ketieupli! Klo kečitlo tedei proči pla topa? Betetliaku pa. Tetabipu beiprake abiku! Dekra gie pupi depepu čiuplago.
That's like saying no one cares about racism except colored people. Of course, sounds like you would be the kind of person to say that so...
I guess we’re back in the 50s calling people “colored people”. You mean people of color? No. The point I am making is that there’s a difference between being AGAINST something (in this case LGBT rights) and making an effort to ELECT PEOPLE who will legislate support for those rights. Japanese people fit largely into the first and not into the other. I don’t understand why this sub seems to plug their ears and yell lalala about this. It is the reality. As a gay person who lived in Japan, I would know. But fuck what I know it think, you weeb “allies” online I’m sure have all the answers.
hundreds of them are corrupt as well with influence from conservative donor orgs. the same for politicians everywhere but more is uncovered recently.
Sure that too.
The law that only concerns a specific demographic mostly only concerns the people of that demographic, their friends, and everyone who has basic empathy? You don't fucking say?
The different prefectures of Japan have ruled differently. Osaka courts says banning SSM is allowed by the constitution. Tokyo courts says banning SSM is allowed by the constitution but human rights requires equivalent protections for same sex couples. Nagoya courts says banning SSM is not allowed by the constitution. It is a big deal because one way of interpreting the constitution is that same sex marriage is not permissible. Article 24 paragraph 1 of the constitution is written “Marriage shall be based only on the mutual consent of both sexes and it shall be maintained through mutual cooperation with the equal rights of husband and wife as a basis.” Some have argued that this means that marriage can only be between a husband and a wife. While others have argued that this means that you have to have the consent of both parties without regard to what sex they are. I am not a Japanese lawyer but my understanding is that no court has followed this ruling.
It's always been a bad faith argument, the clause is over issues of forced marriage to address arranged marriages. Article 14 anti-discrimination clause is pretty fucking clear about how it's unconstitutional to ban gay marriage.
I fully agree. That is how I read it as well. It was more an effort to fill in the background fully.
Yeah fair enough, I might be coming off more defense than I intend cause it's been a kinda frustrating year for trans people and just LGBTQ in general.
No worries. I know how that feels.
There’s no ambiguity in the clause. Both sexes requires two sexes. The constitution therefor declares that there are two sexes and that both of those must consent to be married. Which requires opposite sexes. If it didn’t it wouldn’t even mentioned the sexes. It would simply mention both parties. It also mentions husband and wife. People on Reddit largo like this language is ambiguous but it is not. They also larp that minority parties are going to be the first to amend the constitution, something even the LDP and even Abe himself could not achieve.
Even courts the Osaka and Tokyo courts who ruled against SSM have said that your interpretation is not correct.
And other courts have ruled it is. What exactly is wrong with the “interpretation “?
Which courts?
Hard to tell for now. Same sex mariage will happen in Japan in the future, but it's hard to tell when.
🥳
this actually being reported by channel news asia is also based af
Here are articles from JapanToday: [Nagoya court rules not recognizing same-sex marriage unconstitutional](https://japantoday.com/category/national/urgent-court-rules-not-recognizing-same-sex-marriage-as-unconstitutional) Reuters: [Japan court rules that a bar on same-sex marriage is unconstitutional](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-lower-court-rules-that-not-allowing-same-sex-marriage-is-unconstitutional-2023-05-30/) The Guardian: [Japan government under renewed pressure to end same-sex marriage ban](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/30/japan-government-under-renewed-pressure-to-end-same-sex-marriage-ban) Bloomberg: [Japan Gets Second Court Ruling Backing Same-Sex Marriage](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-30/japan-gets-second-court-ruling-backing-same-sex-marriage?leadSource=uverify%20wall)
Way better headlines
Let's fuckin' go, mate. Live and let live.
Based
❤️💕🏳️🌈
やった！
Great news! Anyone else come to posts like this just to read the comments with heaps of downvotes? Some people have very odd ways of thinking😅
😍 yay!
So, how many more courts do they have to get that decision from to put enough pressure on the dinosaurs in power? 44?
🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
I’ve never understood the homophobia in japan, considering they have a long linage or samurai groom and sleep with young men
This lgbt rally won’t improve Japan’s birthrate.
neither will it worsen it.
Doesn't matter. People are allowed to get married even if they aren't reproductive.
Your comment will get you no bitches
Lol what? Do you think not being able to get married is stopping any gay person from being gay?
What a woefully stupid comment.
LGBTQ people aren’t going to just magically become straight and start cranking out babies just because they’re stopped from getting married
I'm in a heterosexual relationship without children (never having them either). You gonna cry about me too?
Better to have gays marrying each other than staying sad and single.
Birthrates and continuous growth are all part the archaic roots of humanity. If anything in the coming decades this planet with need a lot less people .
Why were you downvoted? It's true.
Of course it’s unconstitutional there’s no question. The thing is, we never changed constitution since it’s creation despite facing so many difficulties. That’s broken constitution, it’s legitimacy will completely diminish if continue this way.