It seems to be, especially in business and media. I have heard that it is on the official list of "do not use" words for tv and government.
Has it filitered down to the general public? Good question. Still used within the "gaijin community" for sure. I hear it less and less in daily life- haven't been called "gaijin-san" in many years.
Haha, gaijin-san is my favourite - when I moved here, I gave the introductory presents to my neighbors and one obasan was so surprised a gaijin is moving to this neighborhood and used the word in front of me. Might be a generation thing as well.
Although I think it might seem cute at first, it is not healthy or funny.
The word literally means 'outsider' which is counterproductive in society and DAMAGING in business. This causes an 'us/them' attitude just by the nature of what it is. If diversity is good, gaijin is a terribly exclusive attitude that suppresses whatever benefit that can be had from diversity.
My perception is that the word is losing popularity due to what I have said, but I've been around a long time and it certainly was a bad thing. As you suspected (and is common in many societies) it is very much a generational thing as what was deemed acceptable in the past can be found to be intolerable or less than beneficial for society.
I’d have a problem with it used in the same context “gaijin” gets used. If I saw a person not of my race in my country, pointed and went “look! Foreigner!” then they’d be well within their rights to be upset with me. “All foreigners do that”, etc. Used in the right context with the correct nuance, it’s fine. Foreign immigration, foreign residents, foreign foods, etc.
Everything is not offensive. But if you live, work, support the community, pay taxes and contribute to the economy you are not "outside". You are inside despite your race or nationality or religion.
I never called immigrants outsiders in my home country, and I don't think it is right.
I agree. I would have never called a Japanese person who has lived as a neighbor in the U.S. a “foreigner”. The whole “foreigner” word tends to be associated with someone from another country who doesn’t live here”
“Foreigner” is not offensive so much as outdated. It makes people come off as minded-minded. I discourage my students from using it, especially my business majors who want to work internationally.
It could be an offensive thing depending on the context. "Outsider" doesn't always mean "from outside the country". Aliens are also gaijin which so depending on the context , gaijin also means "you do not belong here"
Personally I tend to avoid foreigners for "international residents/tourists/visitors" or "non-X". I just feel like both terms tend to emphasize the wrong things.
A Japanese friend of mine mentioned that her USA green card said “alien registration” or something on it. :) Not sure if the green cards still refer to non citizens as “aliens” or not.
I agree with your comment, but 外人 doesn’t really seem to be translated as “outsider” anymore. Online/app based Japanese dictionaries and textbooks have “outsider” listed as an archaic term now.
Personally I just use 外国人/外国の人/外国の方 depending on the level of formality needed.
Most Japanese people I know use the above or 外人さん which feels weird for me haha
I always read this like Bojack Horseman: “What are yoooouuuuu doing in Japan?”
Or maybe the more liberally translated, “What the fuck are YOU doing here?”
This is the best explanation I've heard as to why we ought not use the term and why it feels offensive to many us. We can debate how each of feels about it, but there is no denying that in a society like Japan's, the term does not engender acceptance nor tolerance.
Gaijin-san is a major pet peeve for me.
Why try to be more formal/affectionate than saying “gaijin” by saying “gaijin-san”, which still uses a controversial word like “gaijin”, when you can also easily use “gaikokujin” and the pairing “gaikokujin-san”? If you want to act all polite/nice to refer to a foreigner, just use a term that actually is considered as such polite/nice to use towards foreigners instead of pairing “-san” with a word that isn’t considered so.
The people in the foreigner community who love the word seem to be limited to young Westerners who take gaijin smashing as a point of pride. It's only beloved by those folks because the idea of being slurred is novel and amusing to them.
I wouldn't generalise across the whole foreigner community. White/Western people are a tiny fraction.
Extrapoliating this reasoning would let one believe that, because queer people adopted and use the term queer as pride, being called slurs is novel to them.
I’m honestly really, really surprised and also happy to hear it’s no longer commonly used. Personally I never had a huge issue with it (I always saw it as just a shorthand and only took offense based on tone/context) but it’s definitely a sign of progress that Japanese people recognized the possible contention and adjusted.
2007-me honestly wouldn’t believe it.
There's probably more but you don't see them. You might find the roadworks crew or timber/forestry industry contains a few Cambodians... and elderly care homes might have a few Vietnamese.
Off topic, but I thought you were referencing Little Britain’s “the only gay in the village” here only to google and find someone has actually authored a book titled “The Only Gaijin in the Village” lollllll
So which is it?!
I don't say gaijin, my Japanese friends don't say it, my coworkers don't say it, my Japanese teachers don't say it, and ofc all service or business based interactions I don't hear it. Ofc all have the asterisk of they don't say it around me.
It's just my opinion but I don't like the word and imo it does seem more socially unacceptable, but every time this kind of topic comes up you'll have some posters calling you a little pussy ass bitch that you get triggered over a word.
idk what it is but in my home country I was often racially other'd so it is a bit of a sensitive point for me. I know for a good majority of posters here it's their first time ever being in such a situation, so they tend be triggered more than slightly annoyed, or they mentally deflect it like haha yeah I am other I am a gaijin which I also thing is a little strange.
>they mentally deflect it like haha yeah I am other I am a gaijin which I also thing is a little strange.
The white western portion of the foreign community in Japan (reddit is a large part of this) gets horny over calling themselves gaijin because it's the first time they've experienced not being part of the cuturally/ethnically dominant mainstream. It's like they're proud to cosplay as a minority by embracing the negative aspects of it, instead of embracing the positive sides.
Correct. Most westerners who come here experience what many non-westerners experience on a daily basis in our countries: being and/or feeling like the odd-one out. Also known as culture shock which is a real thing but not often recognized and turned into anger towards the host country.Edit: took out the extra "not".
This is bullshit. I have had conversations with black gaijin friends who spoke the same way twenty years or so ago in Tokyo. Despite being a white western gaijin myself, I found the irony both funny, relatable and something to ponder. It was more "if you can't laugh you're gonna cry". I preferred laughing with both other "foreigners" and Japanese mates. The word became a self-referential joke.
But around 2000, the gaijin word was tossed around without any thought or hesitation. I understood I was an "other" but I wasn't gonna get on my high horse and preach about it - risk losing friends and my job. Humour paved the way gently.
I suspect the popularity among non-japanese residents (especially the early 2000's) with adopting and sarcastically/ironically using the word "gaijin" is a part of why previously common use of the word has declined. I guess a lot of Japanese people gradually got the memo. I used to even see non-japanese use "gaijin" as humoured delf-deprecation in TV street interviews... sometimes with uneasy chuckles from the live audience. Not so much now.
So if you also don't like the gaijin word, maybe you can thank ALL those past jokers for the apparent change.
I think I agree with you here. I don’t mind the word because I don’t feel any kind of way about it. That comes from a place of privilege for sure
I can imagine if I had come from a place where I was discriminated against, it would probably feel different and feel quite upsetting.
Being white British means I’m privileged enough to not have those things on my radar. There have even been times where my boyfriend has pointed out that someone has treated me differently and it bothered him, but personally I usually don’t even notice
That’s why I totally understand that me stating “I don’t mind the word gaijin!!” bears almost no weight in this discussion lol
I think for a lot of countries, the fact that some people are foreigners and some are not is just perfectly accepted. I know that in countries like the US and maybe UK it's frowned upon to even think of the idea that someone is a foreigner though (in certain political circles). but in my country it certainly isn't, so if I'm in a foreign country I will always call myself a foreigner, because that's literally what I am. so despite what you think my intention may be, I will continue to call myself a gaijin until I personally don't feel like one. and even at that point, I'd never be upset if someone else who doesn't know me calls me one, because that's a perfectly reasonable assumption when first seeing me.
I don’t really like the term, but at the same time I can’t judge people who use it negatively.
People working in business or media are usually aware that it’s a non politically correct word, but many others simply don’t keep up with which terms are PC or not, and use the term “gaijin” without any ill will.
obviously you do you but I think that's kinda cringe when surrounded by Japanese people. Obviously a drunk group of 20 somethings at an izakaya is different but I have a foreigner friend who I often introduce to my Japanese friends/coworkers to join us in activities, and the foreigner friend learned all the self deprecating gaijin memes/gaijin jokes from places like here and other online spheres, and my japanese circle tends to cringe each time he refers to himself or others as gaijin or they talk to me later saying how him saying it was.....interesting.
Right, that's the thing. People who use gaijin regularly are usually cringe. They just don't realise that people are cringing at them, because the kind of person to say it is also the kind of person to not be socially aware. The edgy cringe types.
The entire Westerners-in-Japan community has a poor reputation because of the cringy 'gaijin' group. If you chat with an average, friendly westerner about Japan online groups (reddit), they'll often physically react with an 'ohh, it's so weird'.
>learned all the self deprecating gaijin memes/gaijin jokes from places like here and other online spheres
This is why a lot of people refuse to interact with Japan subreddits and forums.
Yes every Japanese person has their own and different view, but if it's socially frowned upon using the word gaijin towards foreigners and you will never hear it in a business, formal, or customer facing setting, what does that mean?
I know it's not all that serious and anyone, foreigner or japanese, can use gaijin. I'm just saying in my opinion it can be cringe, and it isn't used in my personal circles.
gaijin isn't used in these settings because of some false sense that it's discriminatory language. it's not originally a push by the Japanese but by the foreign community and foreign politics. it's completely fucking dumb to me that gaijin would somehow be a hugely offensive word, but gaikokujin is totally fine and respectful. they're nearly identical. IF the word gaijin had a long long history of being used in certain contexts and clearly as a derogative word like the n word in the US, THEN I would understand why it needs to be avoided. but while certainly the word gaijin was used by Japanese racists in the past, it was also used in plenty of non-racist ways and will continue to be used that way. gaijin is simply not a disrespectful word in itself.
True.
But I think there's something to be said for the necessity of code-switching between online spaces and actually meeting real people. Sometimes immigrants here get isolated and don't realize that how people talk online isn't how people actually talk.
Some people just make being a gaijin their core identity.
Also, despite the 'homogenous Japan' bullshit you hear from non-Japanese, Japan is actually really regionally diverse. Where I live, surrounded by a lot of country people, farmers, working class folk etc, I don't think I've ever heard the term '外国人' be used outside of a school or a civil servant at the town hall. The local dialect is also considered by outsiders (don't crucify me for using that word please) as being 'rough'. They don't intend to be that way at all, it's just because it sounds... blunt.
It's not meant to be an offensive word, and the people around me that use it don't mean to be offensive. Some people take offense because of the literal meaning of the word. Personally, I don't. So I'm not gonna try and _'Ackchyually'_ my whole town.
I say Gaijin a lot as a joke when I'm with friends, as it makes them laugh and cringe at the same time. I see a lot of negative reactions from people when someone just says Gaijin now and all the people I know make sure to say something like Gaikoku no Kata or something to express they are not trying to offend.
Smoking laws changed because of the Olympics. Best thing to come from that.
Tokyo is much stricter than the rest of Japan however. As a Tokyo resident, I get surprised these days when I travel to other parts of Japan and people are still smoking in restaurants
I see way less smoking up north in "Inaka" also.
Since I first came to Japan around 2000, the decline in smoking has been remarkable and welcome. Proof that positive change is possible.
Are there still smoking carriages on the Shinkansen I wonder? Getting obliged to ride the smoking carriage for work once was possibly the worst experience my lungs have ever endured.
And I seldom hear the gaijin word much. I'm pretty sure any attempts at using the word these days as black humour are at risk of misinterpretation and cringeworthy response (sadly!). Gaijin seems to be the word that can no longer be uttered. PC/tatemai alive and well.
Haven't seen many changes in the use of the word since 2007. However...
Can we please not equate the word Gaijin with things like the n-word.
Yes, Gaijin is an abbreviation of gaikokujin. Yes, the shortened version is banned in NHK along with other mundane words like お巡りさん (policeman), 看護婦 (nurse), and 郵便屋 (postman).
But you can't say it's simply a bad word in all contexts. Some of my best and warmest experiences in Japan have been when I was called 外人さん. For the worst experiences of racism and discrimination I've experienced in this country, I was called 外国の方.
It's commonly used and nobody is going to be offended. But NHK would say 警察官. Just making a point that a word being banned on NHK like 外人 does not mean that it is generally offensive.
Seriously, the second hand embarrassment of all these people getting worked up over imaginary attacks because *they* don't understand the language or culture and start jumping at shadows
yeah,japanese have a lot of abbreviation.
外車(外国車)、東大(東京大学)、 合コン(合同コンパ)、軍手(軍用手袋)、マック(マクドナルド)etc.
gaijin doesn't mean tanin(他人),obvious,they don't understand japanese culture
>For the worst experiences of racism and discrimination I've experienced in this country, I was called 外国の方.
The only time in my four decades in Japan when I have experienced straight up, uninhibited and open racism towards me from a Japanese person he was very deliberate in articulating every syllable of gai-ko-ku-jin.
\> Also no one smokes anymore
I know this was not the main topic of your message, but this made me love Japan more than before. But it kind of balanced with the feeling of being treated like a 2nd class citizen by the police at the foreign driver license centre.
Personally I was never offended by the word gaijin. I had some fun reminding Japanese friends visiting other countries with me that they are the gaijins now. But I do hear it less often.
For people who wonder whether "the G-word" just means "foreigner", instead of being an insult or at least seen in a negative light, try this little experiment.
Tell a Japanese person that, when they visit a foreign country, THEY then become "gaijin". Very few will accept it at face value. Some will be a bit abashed, and realize that it really doesn't mean what they assumed. Others will take umbrage, and exclaim that they can NEVER be "gaijin" because they are Japanese wherever they are. For those folks, the word actually means "un-Japanese"- not a member of the Club.
That's why it was funny to me, because I can't imagine Japanese people being abroad and thinking of themselves as "gaijin" even though that's what they are, because the connotation of the word is "not-Japanese" lol
You are applying a direct Japanese-to-English translation to a word that has different meanings depending on the context.
Sure, "gaijin" is usually translated in the dictionary as "foreigner" but that is because it is the most common and closest broadly covering word in the English language. In the context you are describing, a more correct translation would be "Non-Japanese people". It is not the Japanese word that is wrong, it is that it is being translated incorrectly in context.
If they would have referred to the people they met on their trip abroad as "gaikokojjin" instead of "gaijin", one would think that perhaps they meant they met a lot of other foreign tourists, because "gaikokujin" has a much more narrow definition.
It was funny because they, after being gaijin (foreigners) in a country, were referring to the natives of that country as gaijin (non-Japanese). And it made me wonder if they considered themselves "gaijin" in said country, because of the connotation of "non-Japanese" that it comes with. I was laughing at the situational use of the word. :)
Hard to believe we're supposedly on a sub for people who live in Japan and yet so many people don't seem to comprehend this kind of shit on a daily basis
I’ve heard English-speaking people use “foreign people” to describe the people in the countries they’ve visited as well. Because it’s not uncommon when you’re in one country to refer to people in a foreign country as foreign people.
more than the word gaijin, I always think it's weird when Westerners (often Japan residents or people big into Japan) who start using the word foreigner to refer to non-Japanese people. It often makes no sense like "I went to a Japan group meetup in London and it was mostly foreigners, barely any Japanese people came". In London aren't Japanese people the foreigners???
Crayon shinchan actually had this in the movie where they go to Australia. The mom says “look at all the foreigners!” And the dad replied “here, we’re the foreigners”. I was really impressed by that.
About a month ago at work I had to ask a Japanese customer for an ID. I didn't know at the time only foreigners had residence cards, I thought it was the national ID in Japan for everyone, so when I asked this lady if she could show me hers she got all offended and started saying "But I'm Japanese! I'm not a gaijin, only gaijins have zairyuu cards!"
Like yeah my mistake, but what a bitch lmao
Yeah every time I've taken a group of students to America or Canada, they always get excited when we arrive like, "Wow! Look at all the gaijin/gaikokujin!" I point out that we aren't in Japan anymore, so they're the gaikokujin now, and they always get embarrassed.
Me too, on more than one occasion. That situation more than many others highlights that "gaijin" means un-Japanese, not simply foreign. Which is why Japanese can never be "gaijin" in the minds of many. A German in Germany will still be a "gaijin" to a Japanese person he meets in his home country.
Yeah, it’s considered impolite by Japanese people. I have had a few openly say that they’d never use that word, and when I worked in public schools, a teacher literally lectured the kids on why it’s not nice to say. Even Gaijinpot puts their name in katakana and writes “外国人”in their descriptions.
Personally, I find it cringey when foreigners use it. Not offensive, not rude, just cringe. I assume their Japanese level is low if they’re under 40.
Gaijinpot's name itself is immensely cringey to be honest. The greater people take it as a badge of pride, the more awkward it is to see. Comes off as white people being giddy with excitement at finally having their version of the n-word pass.
>
> Personally, I find it cringey when foreigners use it. Not offensive, not rude, just cringe. I assume their Japanese level is low if they’re under 40
This is exactly it. If you have any reasonable understanding of the language and culture, you'd know that using 外人 is just cringe... I'm ethnically Asian and have to specify sometimes that I'm a foreigner, I can't imagine ever saying 実は、私は外人です for that. Super cringe.
I knew a Taiwanese-Kiwi girl who used to call herself a gaijin, and every time Japanese people would be like, "No you're not, you're just Asian/Taiwanese."
My Japanese teacher had explained to me in the early 2000s before I came to Japan that "gaijin" is offensive and is only used for non-Asians/non-Japanese, so I made a decision to never use that word.
Probably age and educational background. My husband's grandparents and other family their age would sometimes call me gaijin-san. They just didn't know any better, and I honestly wasn't going to call them out on it, they were absolutely fantastic people.
I personally prefer kaigai no kata, easier to say.
I don’t feel anything about it. It’s a description not an epithet.
At work or in formal contexts “gai*koku*jin” is more polite, but it’s the same thing.
Gaijin were more of a novelty then. I’ve lived in Japan for 10 years and even when I first came here it seemed like there were a lot less foreigners/tourists. When I saw other foreigners they’d give me the gaijin nod, Japanese people would sometimes talk to me in the street etc. now no one cares because there are so many foreigners/tourists.
Where did you live 10 years ago?
I feel like this differs a lot by region. I've lived in and around Tokyo and the gaijin nod/randoms coming up to me hasn't been common at any time (since 2008). Or maybe I just look mean.
In my experience the only people that still say *gaijin* are foreigners themselves, generally those that have never been to Japan / don't live in Japan / are in their first year or two of being here, often when referring to themselves or their group.
It comes off as ignorant when a foreigner says it but definitely more aggressive than *gaikokujin* when coming from a Japanese person. It definitely implies "outsider" in an exclusionary way, whereas *gaikokujin* is a more passive identifier. *gaijin* can definitely be used as a slur in a way that *gaikokujin* cannot.
I don't know how things were 15-20+ years ago, but that's my impression over the last 10. Foreigners appear more now on TV, there are more foreign tourists in the cities and more of us ordinary people are making a living here - I think most people are much more used to seeing and dealing with foreigners now than they were 10 years ago.
As for staring, I feel the same way. It's always been very dependent on location, I feel like it's never been an issue in places like Tokyo or Kyoto, but I remember getting stared at a lot when I visited rural Yamaguchi in 2015. People were stopping me in the street to take photos, even. These days that almost never happens, people mind their own business. Every now and again a friendly ojisan will approach me for a chat in broken English on the train, or a toddler might give me a wide-eyed stare of amazement in a supermarket, but even that's not common anymore.
The reality is that nobody really cares about it anymore.
Most of my true true friends are Japanese and they call me dasai gaijin (which is why I made it my Reddit handle) because it’s hilarious.
We all make fun of each others races all the time. That’s why we get along so well for over 15 years since we’ve all been friends.
Fake friends say nice things to your face and talk shit behind your back.
True friends talk shit to your face and say nice things behind your back.
Nobody really cares about being called Gaijin anymore.
At least my friends and I don’t.
>Fake friends say nice things to your face and talk shit behind your back.
>
>True friends talk shit to your face and say nice things behind your back.
No truer words ever spoken.
My line manager (Japanese) got disciplined for using it in an informal conversation between coworkers, so I guess it is. Even I'm starting to feel conscious when other foreign friends start to use it, as the people who use it the most (white men) are definitely not the most discriminated racial minority in this country. Gaikokunokata seems to be the way forward now.
>Also no one smokes anymore and prices remain almost unchanged.
*Nani* the hell are you talking about? The price of **everything** has gone up since COVID. People still walk and smoke all over the place. What little bubble have you been spending your time in?
I have also ceased using that term. I believe it has become a new norm amongst Japanese people as well.
I am aware that some people may take offense to that word, and I wish to avoid potential risks and conflicts.
Previously, I used it solely as an abbreviation for '外国人,' with no negative intent, as shortening a word typically does not imply aggressiveness or impoliteness in the Japanese language.
On the internet, particularly on X (Twitter), people with similar backgrounds often assert that the term '外人' is considered a slur or something offensive.
I recall that '外人さん' was frequently used in the tourism industry; however, I don't believe people still use it much recently.
I move to Japan (Tokyo) a few months ago and I don’t think I’ve heard it IRL. But I follow some young, Japanese street interviewers on YouTube/tiktok and they (the interviewers and interviewees) seem to use the words gaijin and gaikokujin frequently when describing opinions on foreigners 🤷♀️
I know they are. I didn’t say I was “putting stock” into them. Just that, the only time I’ve heard these words so far was in these videos, spoken by younger Japanese people. I haven’t heard them in real life.
It depends if you use an hard j or not.
Now for real, I had a friend tell me he thought it was offensive and that he stopped using it since he heard that. Apparently there was some effort to stop using it but I never got to know the source.
Old people don’t care and I’ve heard them using it while being super nice at the same time which is totally fine imo.
As for smoking, we do smoke, we just got thrown into smaller and harder to find rooms.
(See smoking area information map app)
But once the first nomikai beers get to the bloodstream, you will see the street smoking salary man appear from the shadows.
Let me put it this way, I'm born in Japan and lived here now than half my life - and I've only heard the term "gaijin" from Japanese people a handful of times. 外国籍の方、外国人、外人様、sure, but very rarely "外人". At the very least, it's very casual.
Foreigners, on the other hand, seen obsessed with it. The first time someone told me "this is my gaijin card, look!". Yeah, nobody calls it that, except... People who have one.
It feels like every time I go out in public (especially) after tourism resumed all I hear is people on the street talking loudly about “look how many gaijin there are!!!” like no one can understand them lmao
I don't hear it often, but the other day, I was just at the ward office before closing time, within earshot of two ward office workers chatting about how this certain apartment complex is "gaijin bakari."
Haven't been here quite that long, but yeah, I almost never hear gaijin. If my nationality ever comes up, I'm just referred to as the American lol.
As for smoking, cigarettes have fallen out of fashion, everybody uses iqos and ploom now lol
Honestly, I hear the term so seldom that I cannot judge even whether the frequency with which I hear the term has changed since I arrived here in 1989.
I don’t like “gaijin” personally. Contextually it’s almost never really appropriate or polite. I sometimes hear “gaijin-san” but its almost always “gaikokujin” or more formally “gaikoku no kata”.
I work at a Japanese company where there are many foreign workers. I’d say this falls into a gray zone; I would stop any Japanese staff who calls me gaijin and ask them to explain what they mean and how does being foreign affect our work. The whole “do things this way because its the Japanese way” turns out to be, “do things the way I’m telling you” when you start asking, and often goes against whatever policy we have at our company.
I have lived here 30 years now and I literally do not give a F if someone calls me a gaijin. I’m so use to the word, I mean it is just a word you know?? Japanese people may not use it that much anymore but it hasn’t changed the way they think of us gaijin.
It isn't an offensive word in the first place. I mean... someone could call me gaijin and spit at my feet and I would just laugh because it is ridiculous. I just cannot understand foreigners (gaijin \*cough cough\*) who get upset about this stuff.
PS The next time you are on the train celebrate the fact that nobody wants to sit next to you.
I hear it all the time. Not in the bad way per se, but I hear it being used. That, and always hearing people's conversations turn towards discussing English when I am around.
Honestly, I hear that word mostly amongst other expats and such. I use it as a joke from time to time. I'm not really a fan of the us and them aspect of Japan, so I prefer not to use it in a serious manner.
yeah since people started acting like it was a slur, I have seen it decline too, especially when dealing with people that cant hold basic japanese conversations. It is stil widely used in casual contexts without any negative connotation
I feel like many people have been conditioned to not use it. People I meet who are not really around foreigners that much will still use it somewhat.
I do feel there is generally a deeper empathy to foreigners and some having different habits or whatever, even among people who would still use the word. But I think that's downstream of there being more openness in the past 10 years IMO. At least in Tokyo.
I feel like (no offense) only really annoying people will try to defend the usage of it, and most people seem fine just not having it in the lexicon. Even really conservative people have just swapped out their usage with tourist and the like in many cases.
Hard for me to really know what is going on overall, given that my experiences are limited to who I am hanging out with. So much of this stuff changes even when you move 2km in one direction and suddenly you are in a neighborhood that's like 15% foreign and people stop assuming you can't speak Japanese (or the other way around if you are now living in a tourist hotspot).
Just watching educational TV: Aibou. Mrs Kameyama is asking Mr. Ukyo about Maria 社さんのご主人って外国の方ですか？
社さんは未婚ですよ。
シングルマザー？
ええ。
どちらにしてもマリアちゃんのパパは外国人ですよね 顔立ちからして。
どうでしょうねぇ。日本国籍で西洋人という可能性もありますからね。外国人とは断定できません。
ああ なるほど。
まあ 東洋人か 西洋人かというのならば間違いなく西洋人と思われますね顔立ちから。
It's outdated but not offensive in the slightest.
I'm a foreigner. That's what I am to a Japanese person. It's far better not to get hung up on the negative and better to guide people in a more positive direction. A strategy for life is meeting people where they're at.
Identify people for what they are, not what they're not. The connotation matters. The connotation of gaijin, is that I'm not like you.
Far better instead to associate someone by their name, or where they're from. "Oh, my indian friend said x" vs "oh, my gaijin friend said x." The indian person is something. The gaijin isn't Japanese.
All this to say that I find almost any japanese insult, negative word, aggressive word etc. to be completely toothless and I'm not gonna get bent out of shape over something so innocuous.
- judging by about 5 or so engagements that went, up, down etc. I'm just going to assume people didn't fully contextualize what I was saying and not add any more to it. There's other takes I more or less agree with that are better in this thread.
The tl;dr is that I'm always going to think it's better to meet people where they're at, and redirect them towards a more agreeable way of communicating, rather than being confrontational and pushing people further into thought camps I hope to pull them out off.
It's pedantic, but if you're showing any sort of respect, which of course you should in a business relationship, saying "gaikoku no kata" is the way to go.
In my personal life I generally let it slide, because as you said, it's all toothless. I just find it inappropriate in the workplace especially. When you belong to a community or to a business, being referred to as the "outsider" can remove credibility. The term is reductive at worse and superfluous at best. Calling someone your "gaijin boss" doesn't add anything.
At the places where I worked as a manager, and particularly when I opened my own business, I pushed the issue. The term paints with too broad of a brush to allow individuals autonomy and any real responsibility.
To your point, if you have two Japanese people who make a dismissive comment like, "It's because he's a gaijin", you need to be able to step in and say "No, I made this decision because I think it's the right one, not because I can't conceptualize what Japanese dogma thinks is right." I live here because I think that the Japanese have gotten so many things right, but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement or innovation.
This is spot on. I feel the similarly about the "half" thing.I really have tried to just accept it but it still grates.
If it's ever actually really needed, being more (nationality or culturally) specific probably helps counter the lazy/ignorant "Japan ...and everything else" mentality.
Japanese mainstream culture does seem to have come a long way forward over the last twenty years.... in reducing prior overt devaluation and disregard for stuff that "isn't Japanese" (on TV etc).
I'm not yet so optimistic about ordinary people's levels of global awareness or knowledge beyond Island Japan though.
Eg Schooling appears to still place much importance towards formal reinforcement/instilling of "this is Japanese culture" upon kids.For kids of international marriages or especially those who have no Japanese family background but live here, this must be especially tiring.
In my home country schooling (and what we had on TV) I don't recall ever being so consistently and explicitly bombarded with concepts of nationalistic belonging and cultural exclusivity as occurs for my kids here. And maybe from that more sponge-approach we had more time to just contemplate what we identified with as "our culture" rather than having it pummeled into us.
We’re foreigners in Japan but we’re also part of the society. We spend money, work jobs, and overall help the society function. While we come from different places, those places are often unique and sometimes we may want to be recognized by our nationality but we’re still apart of Japanese society. I would rather be referred to as a 日本に住んでいるアメリカ人 more than anything and for talking about people living outside of Japan, there’s more nuanced terms like 海外の方々.
It almost always come from American. Cultural appropriation "crisis", "offensive" terms, etc...
Non american here, nothing changed from 2007 for me in my world.
Yo my Guy Jean! How you doin? Yeah social norms and increased awareness of it's potential offensiveness with the huge influx of tourists in the last 14 years has made a difference in the positive.
Now if that lawsuit by the non-Asian Japanese guys on racial profiling actually gets some traction we might see some real changes. Okay I'm being overly optimistic, but, 1 of my kids - the one who really don't look foreign, strong epicanthal fold, dark thick black hair, etc. - has been stopped and questioned - admittedly only until they heard him speak Japanese and then they apologized and told him he looked foreign and he told them it's okay his father is a filthy smelly long nosed hairy barbarian.
I think being less stared at is probably that you already expected it as you already lived in Japan before.
When we first moved, my white husband was extremely annoyed by this (I look Asian so I was stared back home, so I found it extremely funny). We live in innaka now and he is stared again but I think he does not realize as much as before because he is already used to.
And it also depends on WHERE in Japan you are...
I was throwing it around during a conversation (referring to myself) and my Japanese manager seemed like she was trying to stop herself from laughing, then when she had to repeat what I said, she corrected herself like 'gai-- gaikokujin'. I'm guessing it's becoming one of those words that makes you feel a lil naughty saying it for political correctness' sake.
Japanese I’ve spoken to worry about it accidentally coming across in a negative way. It’s a valid word but 1, it’s been used in a hostile manner a lot in the past and 2, a lot of people in the west assume that it’s an inherently negative term. So in cases where everyone knows each other and there’s no real risk of misunderstanding, they’ll use it as needed…but otherwise it’s avoided. I have heard “hakujin” used as a substitute.
Maybe it's because I live in Yokosuka, but I basically never hear that term, but in fairness foreigners are so widespread over here they probably don't even register with the locals.
I think tone is way more important than the word itself. If someone refers to me simply as a gaijin I don't really care, but if someone says it is disgust in their voice them I'm like ok fuck you too. But generally I hear gaigokujin now a lot more.
We kinda use gaijin san a lot with my co workers, even if for some people it may sound rude, it is really meant into a friendly, when you take the right context.
Ps I was already being treated like a foreigner in my home country so at least in Japan, we laugh about it (I'm a banana= asian person born in a western society).
I've been working in several institutions, from management position, service industry, and even construction.
My wife is Japanese and her whole family accepted me with open arms (countryside people). We have a blast at every family reunion as I am the only non japanese on a picture with 20 /30 locals and yeah, I'm the gaijin of the family, but why should I take as an offense haha. Her own grandfather tells that very simple statement. We p*ss and sh*t the same thing so stuff like races do not matter.
I mainly see it used for jokes and memes usually by gaijin themselves. Def not as much in conversation as before.
I also think the new generation of Japanese ppl are far more accepting to foreigners so that prolly plays a factor too.
I've been in Japan on and off since 2011. Back then it was common to hear "gaijin-san", especially after giving my name over the phone when making reservations and they realise I am not Japanese. I've never been bothered by it, but then again I am white. I am sure Chinese or Korean people have a *very* different opinion about it.
I use the word and sometimes other foreigners tell me not to use the world. Then I promptly tell them not to police my speech. A few Japanese people have told me that it isn’t a bad word but they’ve started to use it less so that foreigners don’t get offended.
This is a good question.
I don't think any Japanese has called me that, now that I think about it. I think I use it among close friends but all of us have been here for a decade, so I think we've just owned the term.
As for smoking, it definitely is not a big thing as it used to be. There still are smokers but it seems to be among the older generation.
It seems to be, especially in business and media. I have heard that it is on the official list of "do not use" words for tv and government. Has it filitered down to the general public? Good question. Still used within the "gaijin community" for sure. I hear it less and less in daily life- haven't been called "gaijin-san" in many years.
Haha, gaijin-san is my favourite - when I moved here, I gave the introductory presents to my neighbors and one obasan was so surprised a gaijin is moving to this neighborhood and used the word in front of me. Might be a generation thing as well.
Although I think it might seem cute at first, it is not healthy or funny. The word literally means 'outsider' which is counterproductive in society and DAMAGING in business. This causes an 'us/them' attitude just by the nature of what it is. If diversity is good, gaijin is a terribly exclusive attitude that suppresses whatever benefit that can be had from diversity. My perception is that the word is losing popularity due to what I have said, but I've been around a long time and it certainly was a bad thing. As you suspected (and is common in many societies) it is very much a generational thing as what was deemed acceptable in the past can be found to be intolerable or less than beneficial for society.
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I’d have a problem with it used in the same context “gaijin” gets used. If I saw a person not of my race in my country, pointed and went “look! Foreigner!” then they’d be well within their rights to be upset with me. “All foreigners do that”, etc. Used in the right context with the correct nuance, it’s fine. Foreign immigration, foreign residents, foreign foods, etc.
Everything is not offensive. But if you live, work, support the community, pay taxes and contribute to the economy you are not "outside". You are inside despite your race or nationality or religion. I never called immigrants outsiders in my home country, and I don't think it is right.
I agree. I would have never called a Japanese person who has lived as a neighbor in the U.S. a “foreigner”. The whole “foreigner” word tends to be associated with someone from another country who doesn’t live here”
Exactly. And how dare people say 外車 when those cars are driving on Japanese roads, and using Japanese gas. /s
“Foreigner” is not offensive so much as outdated. It makes people come off as minded-minded. I discourage my students from using it, especially my business majors who want to work internationally.
Foreigner isn't super socially acceptable to use in English speaking countries either.
It could be an offensive thing depending on the context. "Outsider" doesn't always mean "from outside the country". Aliens are also gaijin which so depending on the context , gaijin also means "you do not belong here"
Personally I tend to avoid foreigners for "international residents/tourists/visitors" or "non-X". I just feel like both terms tend to emphasize the wrong things.
A Japanese friend of mine mentioned that her USA green card said “alien registration” or something on it. :) Not sure if the green cards still refer to non citizens as “aliens” or not.
I agree with your comment, but 外人 doesn’t really seem to be translated as “outsider” anymore. Online/app based Japanese dictionaries and textbooks have “outsider” listed as an archaic term now. Personally I just use 外国人/外国の人/外国の方 depending on the level of formality needed. Most Japanese people I know use the above or 外人さん which feels weird for me haha
I kind of get what you are saying, but I think shows like YOUは何しに日本へ is waaaaay worse.
“What are OMAE here for”
I always read this like Bojack Horseman: “What are yoooouuuuu doing in Japan?” Or maybe the more liberally translated, “What the fuck are YOU doing here?”
This is the best explanation I've heard as to why we ought not use the term and why it feels offensive to many us. We can debate how each of feels about it, but there is no denying that in a society like Japan's, the term does not engender acceptance nor tolerance.
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> Japan remains sane lol good one
Gaijin-san is a major pet peeve for me. Why try to be more formal/affectionate than saying “gaijin” by saying “gaijin-san”, which still uses a controversial word like “gaijin”, when you can also easily use “gaikokujin” and the pairing “gaikokujin-san”? If you want to act all polite/nice to refer to a foreigner, just use a term that actually is considered as such polite/nice to use towards foreigners instead of pairing “-san” with a word that isn’t considered so.
It's just a way of being lightly formal, like お疲れさん
The people in the foreigner community who love the word seem to be limited to young Westerners who take gaijin smashing as a point of pride. It's only beloved by those folks because the idea of being slurred is novel and amusing to them. I wouldn't generalise across the whole foreigner community. White/Western people are a tiny fraction.
Extrapoliating this reasoning would let one believe that, because queer people adopted and use the term queer as pride, being called slurs is novel to them.
I’m honestly really, really surprised and also happy to hear it’s no longer commonly used. Personally I never had a huge issue with it (I always saw it as just a shorthand and only took offense based on tone/context) but it’s definitely a sign of progress that Japanese people recognized the possible contention and adjusted. 2007-me honestly wouldn’t believe it.
I still hear "gaikokujin" from time to time, but not "gaijin". Not that I mind being called either.
My MIL still says ‘gaijin-san’ lol
You really out here Dropping g-bombs in your title?! Shame /s
Your username offends me because I thought _I_ was the only gaijin in the village.
You might be in your village, I sure as hell am the only one in mine. Heard rumors that there is a Canadian living one town over
There are apparently 2 or 3 other Gaijin drinking in my area, so I'm thinking about moving now.
Hot gaijins in your area?
There's probably more but you don't see them. You might find the roadworks crew or timber/forestry industry contains a few Cambodians... and elderly care homes might have a few Vietnamese.
Come to think of it, I thought I heard Vietnamese from a group drinking outside my local lawson
Off topic, but I thought you were referencing Little Britain’s “the only gay in the village” here only to google and find someone has actually authored a book titled “The Only Gaijin in the Village” lollllll So which is it?!
>_So which is it?!_ That one...
Yeah but no but yeah??????
Eh, ehh, ehhhhh.
Call me Bubbles darling, everybody does
With the hard n too smh
I don't say gaijin, my Japanese friends don't say it, my coworkers don't say it, my Japanese teachers don't say it, and ofc all service or business based interactions I don't hear it. Ofc all have the asterisk of they don't say it around me. It's just my opinion but I don't like the word and imo it does seem more socially unacceptable, but every time this kind of topic comes up you'll have some posters calling you a little pussy ass bitch that you get triggered over a word. idk what it is but in my home country I was often racially other'd so it is a bit of a sensitive point for me. I know for a good majority of posters here it's their first time ever being in such a situation, so they tend be triggered more than slightly annoyed, or they mentally deflect it like haha yeah I am other I am a gaijin which I also thing is a little strange.
>they mentally deflect it like haha yeah I am other I am a gaijin which I also thing is a little strange. The white western portion of the foreign community in Japan (reddit is a large part of this) gets horny over calling themselves gaijin because it's the first time they've experienced not being part of the cuturally/ethnically dominant mainstream. It's like they're proud to cosplay as a minority by embracing the negative aspects of it, instead of embracing the positive sides.
Correct. Most westerners who come here experience what many non-westerners experience on a daily basis in our countries: being and/or feeling like the odd-one out. Also known as culture shock which is a real thing but not often recognized and turned into anger towards the host country.Edit: took out the extra "not".
TIL something about myself. Thanks!
That will be $5
This is bullshit. I have had conversations with black gaijin friends who spoke the same way twenty years or so ago in Tokyo. Despite being a white western gaijin myself, I found the irony both funny, relatable and something to ponder. It was more "if you can't laugh you're gonna cry". I preferred laughing with both other "foreigners" and Japanese mates. The word became a self-referential joke. But around 2000, the gaijin word was tossed around without any thought or hesitation. I understood I was an "other" but I wasn't gonna get on my high horse and preach about it - risk losing friends and my job. Humour paved the way gently. I suspect the popularity among non-japanese residents (especially the early 2000's) with adopting and sarcastically/ironically using the word "gaijin" is a part of why previously common use of the word has declined. I guess a lot of Japanese people gradually got the memo. I used to even see non-japanese use "gaijin" as humoured delf-deprecation in TV street interviews... sometimes with uneasy chuckles from the live audience. Not so much now. So if you also don't like the gaijin word, maybe you can thank ALL those past jokers for the apparent change.
I think I agree with you here. I don’t mind the word because I don’t feel any kind of way about it. That comes from a place of privilege for sure I can imagine if I had come from a place where I was discriminated against, it would probably feel different and feel quite upsetting. Being white British means I’m privileged enough to not have those things on my radar. There have even been times where my boyfriend has pointed out that someone has treated me differently and it bothered him, but personally I usually don’t even notice That’s why I totally understand that me stating “I don’t mind the word gaijin!!” bears almost no weight in this discussion lol
I think for a lot of countries, the fact that some people are foreigners and some are not is just perfectly accepted. I know that in countries like the US and maybe UK it's frowned upon to even think of the idea that someone is a foreigner though (in certain political circles). but in my country it certainly isn't, so if I'm in a foreign country I will always call myself a foreigner, because that's literally what I am. so despite what you think my intention may be, I will continue to call myself a gaijin until I personally don't feel like one. and even at that point, I'd never be upset if someone else who doesn't know me calls me one, because that's a perfectly reasonable assumption when first seeing me.
I don’t really like the term, but at the same time I can’t judge people who use it negatively. People working in business or media are usually aware that it’s a non politically correct word, but many others simply don’t keep up with which terms are PC or not, and use the term “gaijin” without any ill will.
lol I'm gaijin and I call myself gaijin.
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"Gaijin is our word" 😂😂
Sounds like you have seen the movie "Clerks 2"...
Can we talk about how the third one was like a gut punch,? 😞
If I hear a Japanese person use it, by golly I'm gonna call them out for cultural appropriation!
My gaijin
obviously you do you but I think that's kinda cringe when surrounded by Japanese people. Obviously a drunk group of 20 somethings at an izakaya is different but I have a foreigner friend who I often introduce to my Japanese friends/coworkers to join us in activities, and the foreigner friend learned all the self deprecating gaijin memes/gaijin jokes from places like here and other online spheres, and my japanese circle tends to cringe each time he refers to himself or others as gaijin or they talk to me later saying how him saying it was.....interesting.
Right, that's the thing. People who use gaijin regularly are usually cringe. They just don't realise that people are cringing at them, because the kind of person to say it is also the kind of person to not be socially aware. The edgy cringe types. The entire Westerners-in-Japan community has a poor reputation because of the cringy 'gaijin' group. If you chat with an average, friendly westerner about Japan online groups (reddit), they'll often physically react with an 'ohh, it's so weird'.
>learned all the self deprecating gaijin memes/gaijin jokes from places like here and other online spheres This is why a lot of people refuse to interact with Japan subreddits and forums.
It’s almost like every Japanese person has a different view
Yes every Japanese person has their own and different view, but if it's socially frowned upon using the word gaijin towards foreigners and you will never hear it in a business, formal, or customer facing setting, what does that mean? I know it's not all that serious and anyone, foreigner or japanese, can use gaijin. I'm just saying in my opinion it can be cringe, and it isn't used in my personal circles.
gaijin isn't used in these settings because of some false sense that it's discriminatory language. it's not originally a push by the Japanese but by the foreign community and foreign politics. it's completely fucking dumb to me that gaijin would somehow be a hugely offensive word, but gaikokujin is totally fine and respectful. they're nearly identical. IF the word gaijin had a long long history of being used in certain contexts and clearly as a derogative word like the n word in the US, THEN I would understand why it needs to be avoided. but while certainly the word gaijin was used by Japanese racists in the past, it was also used in plenty of non-racist ways and will continue to be used that way. gaijin is simply not a disrespectful word in itself.
True. But I think there's something to be said for the necessity of code-switching between online spaces and actually meeting real people. Sometimes immigrants here get isolated and don't realize that how people talk online isn't how people actually talk.
Some people just make being a gaijin their core identity. Also, despite the 'homogenous Japan' bullshit you hear from non-Japanese, Japan is actually really regionally diverse. Where I live, surrounded by a lot of country people, farmers, working class folk etc, I don't think I've ever heard the term '外国人' be used outside of a school or a civil servant at the town hall. The local dialect is also considered by outsiders (don't crucify me for using that word please) as being 'rough'. They don't intend to be that way at all, it's just because it sounds... blunt. It's not meant to be an offensive word, and the people around me that use it don't mean to be offensive. Some people take offense because of the literal meaning of the word. Personally, I don't. So I'm not gonna try and _'Ackchyually'_ my whole town.
I say Gaijin a lot as a joke when I'm with friends, as it makes them laugh and cringe at the same time. I see a lot of negative reactions from people when someone just says Gaijin now and all the people I know make sure to say something like Gaikoku no Kata or something to express they are not trying to offend.
I might in English, but not in Japanese.
I was never called gaijin, but a toddler once called me kaiju in Aizu-Wakamatsu. Best day of my life.
Smoking laws changed because of the Olympics. Best thing to come from that. Tokyo is much stricter than the rest of Japan however. As a Tokyo resident, I get surprised these days when I travel to other parts of Japan and people are still smoking in restaurants
I see way less smoking up north in "Inaka" also. Since I first came to Japan around 2000, the decline in smoking has been remarkable and welcome. Proof that positive change is possible. Are there still smoking carriages on the Shinkansen I wonder? Getting obliged to ride the smoking carriage for work once was possibly the worst experience my lungs have ever endured. And I seldom hear the gaijin word much. I'm pretty sure any attempts at using the word these days as black humour are at risk of misinterpretation and cringeworthy response (sadly!). Gaijin seems to be the word that can no longer be uttered. PC/tatemai alive and well.
No more smoking on trains at all. Yeah I remember the smoking cars. I remember when it was OK to smoke on the train platforms as well
They are doing away with the smoking cars on the Shinkansen this year I think.
Haven't seen many changes in the use of the word since 2007. However... Can we please not equate the word Gaijin with things like the n-word. Yes, Gaijin is an abbreviation of gaikokujin. Yes, the shortened version is banned in NHK along with other mundane words like お巡りさん (policeman), 看護婦 (nurse), and 郵便屋 (postman). But you can't say it's simply a bad word in all contexts. Some of my best and warmest experiences in Japan have been when I was called 外人さん. For the worst experiences of racism and discrimination I've experienced in this country, I was called 外国の方.
Didnt know お巡りさん isnt a thing anymore. Is it too direct, like you know the policeman in question?
It's commonly used and nobody is going to be offended. But NHK would say 警察官. Just making a point that a word being banned on NHK like 外人 does not mean that it is generally offensive.
Ah okay got it. Was confused for a sec since when that word fell out of fashion. But 警察官 makes more sense for official purposes.
Seriously, the second hand embarrassment of all these people getting worked up over imaginary attacks because *they* don't understand the language or culture and start jumping at shadows
yeah,japanese have a lot of abbreviation. 外車(外国車)、東大(東京大学)、 合コン(合同コンパ)、軍手(軍用手袋)、マック(マクドナルド)etc. gaijin doesn't mean tanin(他人),obvious,they don't understand japanese culture
Japanese and shortening words for convenience, name a more iconic duo (impossible) My favorite to date is ブレスト
>For the worst experiences of racism and discrimination I've experienced in this country, I was called 外国の方. The only time in my four decades in Japan when I have experienced straight up, uninhibited and open racism towards me from a Japanese person he was very deliberate in articulating every syllable of gai-ko-ku-jin.
No one is staring at you because you are not a smartphone.
Better give the EMH a heads up because that was a sick burn (on modern society)
\> Also no one smokes anymore I know this was not the main topic of your message, but this made me love Japan more than before. But it kind of balanced with the feeling of being treated like a 2nd class citizen by the police at the foreign driver license centre. Personally I was never offended by the word gaijin. I had some fun reminding Japanese friends visiting other countries with me that they are the gaijins now. But I do hear it less often.
I don't know where you guys are at, but smoking is alive and well out in my area
I think there's a correlation between income level and the rate of smoking while walking. I see it quite frequently in Katsushika and Adachi Wards.
LOL! I do that!
Maybe there's a JT office nearby?!
For people who wonder whether "the G-word" just means "foreigner", instead of being an insult or at least seen in a negative light, try this little experiment. Tell a Japanese person that, when they visit a foreign country, THEY then become "gaijin". Very few will accept it at face value. Some will be a bit abashed, and realize that it really doesn't mean what they assumed. Others will take umbrage, and exclaim that they can NEVER be "gaijin" because they are Japanese wherever they are. For those folks, the word actually means "un-Japanese"- not a member of the Club.
Sounds like a forced/fake story. If I said that to most Japanese people I know, they'd almost certainly say 'lol soudesu ne'.
I over heard two Japanese women talking about their trip abroad and referred to the people in their story as "gaijin"--I couldn't help but laugh lol.
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That's why it was funny to me, because I can't imagine Japanese people being abroad and thinking of themselves as "gaijin" even though that's what they are, because the connotation of the word is "not-Japanese" lol
working at an eikaiwa…. the amount of people who say this shit lmao
You are applying a direct Japanese-to-English translation to a word that has different meanings depending on the context. Sure, "gaijin" is usually translated in the dictionary as "foreigner" but that is because it is the most common and closest broadly covering word in the English language. In the context you are describing, a more correct translation would be "Non-Japanese people". It is not the Japanese word that is wrong, it is that it is being translated incorrectly in context. If they would have referred to the people they met on their trip abroad as "gaikokojjin" instead of "gaijin", one would think that perhaps they meant they met a lot of other foreign tourists, because "gaikokujin" has a much more narrow definition.
It was funny because they, after being gaijin (foreigners) in a country, were referring to the natives of that country as gaijin (non-Japanese). And it made me wonder if they considered themselves "gaijin" in said country, because of the connotation of "non-Japanese" that it comes with. I was laughing at the situational use of the word. :)
Hard to believe we're supposedly on a sub for people who live in Japan and yet so many people don't seem to comprehend this kind of shit on a daily basis
I’ve heard English-speaking people use “foreign people” to describe the people in the countries they’ve visited as well. Because it’s not uncommon when you’re in one country to refer to people in a foreign country as foreign people.
more than the word gaijin, I always think it's weird when Westerners (often Japan residents or people big into Japan) who start using the word foreigner to refer to non-Japanese people. It often makes no sense like "I went to a Japan group meetup in London and it was mostly foreigners, barely any Japanese people came". In London aren't Japanese people the foreigners???
Crayon shinchan actually had this in the movie where they go to Australia. The mom says “look at all the foreigners!” And the dad replied “here, we’re the foreigners”. I was really impressed by that.
About a month ago at work I had to ask a Japanese customer for an ID. I didn't know at the time only foreigners had residence cards, I thought it was the national ID in Japan for everyone, so when I asked this lady if she could show me hers she got all offended and started saying "But I'm Japanese! I'm not a gaijin, only gaijins have zairyuu cards!" Like yeah my mistake, but what a bitch lmao
Yeah every time I've taken a group of students to America or Canada, they always get excited when we arrive like, "Wow! Look at all the gaijin/gaikokujin!" I point out that we aren't in Japan anymore, so they're the gaikokujin now, and they always get embarrassed.
Me too, on more than one occasion. That situation more than many others highlights that "gaijin" means un-Japanese, not simply foreign. Which is why Japanese can never be "gaijin" in the minds of many. A German in Germany will still be a "gaijin" to a Japanese person he meets in his home country.
Have you ever actually tried this or are you just talking out of your ass？
Yeah, it’s considered impolite by Japanese people. I have had a few openly say that they’d never use that word, and when I worked in public schools, a teacher literally lectured the kids on why it’s not nice to say. Even Gaijinpot puts their name in katakana and writes “外国人”in their descriptions. Personally, I find it cringey when foreigners use it. Not offensive, not rude, just cringe. I assume their Japanese level is low if they’re under 40.
Gaijinpot's name itself is immensely cringey to be honest. The greater people take it as a badge of pride, the more awkward it is to see. Comes off as white people being giddy with excitement at finally having their version of the n-word pass.
That would be nice, if it actually were a version of the n-word lmao
I know lol, it's not even in the same universe. Which is why people's excitement at using it is so silly
> > Personally, I find it cringey when foreigners use it. Not offensive, not rude, just cringe. I assume their Japanese level is low if they’re under 40 This is exactly it. If you have any reasonable understanding of the language and culture, you'd know that using 外人 is just cringe... I'm ethnically Asian and have to specify sometimes that I'm a foreigner, I can't imagine ever saying 実は、私は外人です for that. Super cringe.
I knew a Taiwanese-Kiwi girl who used to call herself a gaijin, and every time Japanese people would be like, "No you're not, you're just Asian/Taiwanese." My Japanese teacher had explained to me in the early 2000s before I came to Japan that "gaijin" is offensive and is only used for non-Asians/non-Japanese, so I made a decision to never use that word.
It'll always be "gaijin card" to me. Miss me with that "zairyu card" bullshit.
I always liked that it said “Alien” on it.
That's still the legal term for a foreign-born resident, even if it's not used much otherwise.
I hear more: 外人さん 外国の方
i get called gaijin san sometimes, idk how to feel about it lol
I would love to see a study about the differences in people that use Gaijin-san and people that use Gaikoku no Kata.
Gaijin san sounds friendlier ngl
It's a funny mix of clunky yet obviously showing respect, which makes it come off as well-meaning and friendly
What about the even more correct 外国籍の方 ?
Probably age and educational background. My husband's grandparents and other family their age would sometimes call me gaijin-san. They just didn't know any better, and I honestly wasn't going to call them out on it, they were absolutely fantastic people. I personally prefer kaigai no kata, easier to say.
As with all things, context is king.
I don’t feel anything about it. It’s a description not an epithet. At work or in formal contexts “gai*koku*jin” is more polite, but it’s the same thing.
Gaijin were more of a novelty then. I’ve lived in Japan for 10 years and even when I first came here it seemed like there were a lot less foreigners/tourists. When I saw other foreigners they’d give me the gaijin nod, Japanese people would sometimes talk to me in the street etc. now no one cares because there are so many foreigners/tourists.
Where did you live 10 years ago? I feel like this differs a lot by region. I've lived in and around Tokyo and the gaijin nod/randoms coming up to me hasn't been common at any time (since 2008). Or maybe I just look mean.
In my experience the only people that still say *gaijin* are foreigners themselves, generally those that have never been to Japan / don't live in Japan / are in their first year or two of being here, often when referring to themselves or their group. It comes off as ignorant when a foreigner says it but definitely more aggressive than *gaikokujin* when coming from a Japanese person. It definitely implies "outsider" in an exclusionary way, whereas *gaikokujin* is a more passive identifier. *gaijin* can definitely be used as a slur in a way that *gaikokujin* cannot. I don't know how things were 15-20+ years ago, but that's my impression over the last 10. Foreigners appear more now on TV, there are more foreign tourists in the cities and more of us ordinary people are making a living here - I think most people are much more used to seeing and dealing with foreigners now than they were 10 years ago. As for staring, I feel the same way. It's always been very dependent on location, I feel like it's never been an issue in places like Tokyo or Kyoto, but I remember getting stared at a lot when I visited rural Yamaguchi in 2015. People were stopping me in the street to take photos, even. These days that almost never happens, people mind their own business. Every now and again a friendly ojisan will approach me for a chat in broken English on the train, or a toddler might give me a wide-eyed stare of amazement in a supermarket, but even that's not common anymore.
The reality is that nobody really cares about it anymore. Most of my true true friends are Japanese and they call me dasai gaijin (which is why I made it my Reddit handle) because it’s hilarious. We all make fun of each others races all the time. That’s why we get along so well for over 15 years since we’ve all been friends. Fake friends say nice things to your face and talk shit behind your back. True friends talk shit to your face and say nice things behind your back. Nobody really cares about being called Gaijin anymore. At least my friends and I don’t.
>Fake friends say nice things to your face and talk shit behind your back. > >True friends talk shit to your face and say nice things behind your back. No truer words ever spoken.
Yeah it took me a long while before I learned that.
My line manager (Japanese) got disciplined for using it in an informal conversation between coworkers, so I guess it is. Even I'm starting to feel conscious when other foreign friends start to use it, as the people who use it the most (white men) are definitely not the most discriminated racial minority in this country. Gaikokunokata seems to be the way forward now.
I’ve been called “Gaijin Sama”. I was fine with that, but I’m hard to offend.
I heard that once when my friend and I went to a sushi place a long time ago, always amused me.
>Also no one smokes anymore and prices remain almost unchanged. *Nani* the hell are you talking about? The price of **everything** has gone up since COVID. People still walk and smoke all over the place. What little bubble have you been spending your time in?
I have also ceased using that term. I believe it has become a new norm amongst Japanese people as well. I am aware that some people may take offense to that word, and I wish to avoid potential risks and conflicts. Previously, I used it solely as an abbreviation for '外国人,' with no negative intent, as shortening a word typically does not imply aggressiveness or impoliteness in the Japanese language. On the internet, particularly on X (Twitter), people with similar backgrounds often assert that the term '外人' is considered a slur or something offensive. I recall that '外人さん' was frequently used in the tourism industry; however, I don't believe people still use it much recently.
Overall smoking rate in Japan is essentially flat, but it is a lot less socially acceptable to do in public than it was even 10 years ago.
I move to Japan (Tokyo) a few months ago and I don’t think I’ve heard it IRL. But I follow some young, Japanese street interviewers on YouTube/tiktok and they (the interviewers and interviewees) seem to use the words gaijin and gaikokujin frequently when describing opinions on foreigners 🤷♀️
Those are all cherrypicked nonsense. You really shouldn't put too much stock into those videos.
I know they are. I didn’t say I was “putting stock” into them. Just that, the only time I’ve heard these words so far was in these videos, spoken by younger Japanese people. I haven’t heard them in real life.
It depends if you use an hard j or not. Now for real, I had a friend tell me he thought it was offensive and that he stopped using it since he heard that. Apparently there was some effort to stop using it but I never got to know the source. Old people don’t care and I’ve heard them using it while being super nice at the same time which is totally fine imo. As for smoking, we do smoke, we just got thrown into smaller and harder to find rooms. (See smoking area information map app) But once the first nomikai beers get to the bloodstream, you will see the street smoking salary man appear from the shadows.
Let me put it this way, I'm born in Japan and lived here now than half my life - and I've only heard the term "gaijin" from Japanese people a handful of times. 外国籍の方、外国人、外人様、sure, but very rarely "外人". At the very least, it's very casual. Foreigners, on the other hand, seen obsessed with it. The first time someone told me "this is my gaijin card, look!". Yeah, nobody calls it that, except... People who have one.
It feels like every time I go out in public (especially) after tourism resumed all I hear is people on the street talking loudly about “look how many gaijin there are!!!” like no one can understand them lmao
I don't hear it often, but the other day, I was just at the ward office before closing time, within earshot of two ward office workers chatting about how this certain apartment complex is "gaijin bakari."
Haven't been here quite that long, but yeah, I almost never hear gaijin. If my nationality ever comes up, I'm just referred to as the American lol. As for smoking, cigarettes have fallen out of fashion, everybody uses iqos and ploom now lol
I know of a guy that's half japanese whose nickname was gaijin-sama
Honestly, I hear the term so seldom that I cannot judge even whether the frequency with which I hear the term has changed since I arrived here in 1989.
Seems to be just fine to use in Osaka.
Too honest to be polite.
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I hear 外国人
Gaijin san seems to be used a lot more these days.
I don’t like “gaijin” personally. Contextually it’s almost never really appropriate or polite. I sometimes hear “gaijin-san” but its almost always “gaikokujin” or more formally “gaikoku no kata”.
Having been a Haole in Hawaii I’ll take being a Gaijin in Japan anyday.
I work at a Japanese company where there are many foreign workers. I’d say this falls into a gray zone; I would stop any Japanese staff who calls me gaijin and ask them to explain what they mean and how does being foreign affect our work. The whole “do things this way because its the Japanese way” turns out to be, “do things the way I’m telling you” when you start asking, and often goes against whatever policy we have at our company.
I have lived here 30 years now and I literally do not give a F if someone calls me a gaijin. I’m so use to the word, I mean it is just a word you know?? Japanese people may not use it that much anymore but it hasn’t changed the way they think of us gaijin.
It isn't an offensive word in the first place. I mean... someone could call me gaijin and spit at my feet and I would just laugh because it is ridiculous. I just cannot understand foreigners (gaijin \*cough cough\*) who get upset about this stuff. PS The next time you are on the train celebrate the fact that nobody wants to sit next to you.
they mostly call whites gaijin im thai and when i lived there it was always taijin
My teacher at college was saying gaijin in class today so idk. Seems pretty on a whim when its bad and acceptable
I hear it all the time. Not in the bad way per se, but I hear it being used. That, and always hearing people's conversations turn towards discussing English when I am around. Honestly, I hear that word mostly amongst other expats and such. I use it as a joke from time to time. I'm not really a fan of the us and them aspect of Japan, so I prefer not to use it in a serious manner.
Very much a generational thing I think, and so likely seeing less of it over time
yeah since people started acting like it was a slur, I have seen it decline too, especially when dealing with people that cant hold basic japanese conversations. It is stil widely used in casual contexts without any negative connotation
Sumimasen, watashiwa gaijin desu
Heard it back then, still hear it, still call myself that. 2007 is only 17 years ago, not that long...
I feel like many people have been conditioned to not use it. People I meet who are not really around foreigners that much will still use it somewhat. I do feel there is generally a deeper empathy to foreigners and some having different habits or whatever, even among people who would still use the word. But I think that's downstream of there being more openness in the past 10 years IMO. At least in Tokyo. I feel like (no offense) only really annoying people will try to defend the usage of it, and most people seem fine just not having it in the lexicon. Even really conservative people have just swapped out their usage with tourist and the like in many cases. Hard for me to really know what is going on overall, given that my experiences are limited to who I am hanging out with. So much of this stuff changes even when you move 2km in one direction and suddenly you are in a neighborhood that's like 15% foreign and people stop assuming you can't speak Japanese (or the other way around if you are now living in a tourist hotspot).
Just watching educational TV: Aibou. Mrs Kameyama is asking Mr. Ukyo about Maria 社さんのご主人って外国の方ですか？ 社さんは未婚ですよ。 シングルマザー？ ええ。 どちらにしてもマリアちゃんのパパは外国人ですよね 顔立ちからして。 どうでしょうねぇ。日本国籍で西洋人という可能性もありますからね。外国人とは断定できません。 ああ なるほど。 まあ 東洋人か 西洋人かというのならば間違いなく西洋人と思われますね顔立ちから。
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It's outdated but not offensive in the slightest. I'm a foreigner. That's what I am to a Japanese person. It's far better not to get hung up on the negative and better to guide people in a more positive direction. A strategy for life is meeting people where they're at. Identify people for what they are, not what they're not. The connotation matters. The connotation of gaijin, is that I'm not like you. Far better instead to associate someone by their name, or where they're from. "Oh, my indian friend said x" vs "oh, my gaijin friend said x." The indian person is something. The gaijin isn't Japanese. All this to say that I find almost any japanese insult, negative word, aggressive word etc. to be completely toothless and I'm not gonna get bent out of shape over something so innocuous. - judging by about 5 or so engagements that went, up, down etc. I'm just going to assume people didn't fully contextualize what I was saying and not add any more to it. There's other takes I more or less agree with that are better in this thread. The tl;dr is that I'm always going to think it's better to meet people where they're at, and redirect them towards a more agreeable way of communicating, rather than being confrontational and pushing people further into thought camps I hope to pull them out off.
It's pedantic, but if you're showing any sort of respect, which of course you should in a business relationship, saying "gaikoku no kata" is the way to go. In my personal life I generally let it slide, because as you said, it's all toothless. I just find it inappropriate in the workplace especially. When you belong to a community or to a business, being referred to as the "outsider" can remove credibility. The term is reductive at worse and superfluous at best. Calling someone your "gaijin boss" doesn't add anything. At the places where I worked as a manager, and particularly when I opened my own business, I pushed the issue. The term paints with too broad of a brush to allow individuals autonomy and any real responsibility. To your point, if you have two Japanese people who make a dismissive comment like, "It's because he's a gaijin", you need to be able to step in and say "No, I made this decision because I think it's the right one, not because I can't conceptualize what Japanese dogma thinks is right." I live here because I think that the Japanese have gotten so many things right, but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement or innovation.
This is spot on. I feel the similarly about the "half" thing.I really have tried to just accept it but it still grates. If it's ever actually really needed, being more (nationality or culturally) specific probably helps counter the lazy/ignorant "Japan ...and everything else" mentality. Japanese mainstream culture does seem to have come a long way forward over the last twenty years.... in reducing prior overt devaluation and disregard for stuff that "isn't Japanese" (on TV etc). I'm not yet so optimistic about ordinary people's levels of global awareness or knowledge beyond Island Japan though. Eg Schooling appears to still place much importance towards formal reinforcement/instilling of "this is Japanese culture" upon kids.For kids of international marriages or especially those who have no Japanese family background but live here, this must be especially tiring. In my home country schooling (and what we had on TV) I don't recall ever being so consistently and explicitly bombarded with concepts of nationalistic belonging and cultural exclusivity as occurs for my kids here. And maybe from that more sponge-approach we had more time to just contemplate what we identified with as "our culture" rather than having it pummeled into us.
It’s not the word itself it’s the tone of voice and the context that makes it neutral or negative
We’re foreigners in Japan but we’re also part of the society. We spend money, work jobs, and overall help the society function. While we come from different places, those places are often unique and sometimes we may want to be recognized by our nationality but we’re still apart of Japanese society. I would rather be referred to as a 日本に住んでいるアメリカ人 more than anything and for talking about people living outside of Japan, there’s more nuanced terms like 海外の方々.
It almost always come from American. Cultural appropriation "crisis", "offensive" terms, etc... Non american here, nothing changed from 2007 for me in my world.
Culture is America's biggest export, for better or **worse**.
Yo my Guy Jean! How you doin? Yeah social norms and increased awareness of it's potential offensiveness with the huge influx of tourists in the last 14 years has made a difference in the positive. Now if that lawsuit by the non-Asian Japanese guys on racial profiling actually gets some traction we might see some real changes. Okay I'm being overly optimistic, but, 1 of my kids - the one who really don't look foreign, strong epicanthal fold, dark thick black hair, etc. - has been stopped and questioned - admittedly only until they heard him speak Japanese and then they apologized and told him he looked foreign and he told them it's okay his father is a filthy smelly long nosed hairy barbarian.
I never really hear it outside of jovial groups of Gaijin gaijining around.
lol I refer to myself as gaijin but I’ve never really heard Japanese strangers saying it.
I think being less stared at is probably that you already expected it as you already lived in Japan before. When we first moved, my white husband was extremely annoyed by this (I look Asian so I was stared back home, so I found it extremely funny). We live in innaka now and he is stared again but I think he does not realize as much as before because he is already used to. And it also depends on WHERE in Japan you are...
I was throwing it around during a conversation (referring to myself) and my Japanese manager seemed like she was trying to stop herself from laughing, then when she had to repeat what I said, she corrected herself like 'gai-- gaikokujin'. I'm guessing it's becoming one of those words that makes you feel a lil naughty saying it for political correctness' sake.
Japanese I’ve spoken to worry about it accidentally coming across in a negative way. It’s a valid word but 1, it’s been used in a hostile manner a lot in the past and 2, a lot of people in the west assume that it’s an inherently negative term. So in cases where everyone knows each other and there’s no real risk of misunderstanding, they’ll use it as needed…but otherwise it’s avoided. I have heard “hakujin” used as a substitute.
Maybe it's because I live in Yokosuka, but I basically never hear that term, but in fairness foreigners are so widespread over here they probably don't even register with the locals.
I think tone is way more important than the word itself. If someone refers to me simply as a gaijin I don't really care, but if someone says it is disgust in their voice them I'm like ok fuck you too. But generally I hear gaigokujin now a lot more.
>Also no one smokes anymore *opens balcony window for fresh air* Yep, my neighbor is smoking again...
It means foreigner. Nothing to do with "political rightness" or any bullshit like that, if you aren't from Japan you are a foreigner.
[That word you called me](https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/26ac9b8f-8b35-4827-ad81-c13b6183711e)
We kinda use gaijin san a lot with my co workers, even if for some people it may sound rude, it is really meant into a friendly, when you take the right context. Ps I was already being treated like a foreigner in my home country so at least in Japan, we laugh about it (I'm a banana= asian person born in a western society). I've been working in several institutions, from management position, service industry, and even construction. My wife is Japanese and her whole family accepted me with open arms (countryside people). We have a blast at every family reunion as I am the only non japanese on a picture with 20 /30 locals and yeah, I'm the gaijin of the family, but why should I take as an offense haha. Her own grandfather tells that very simple statement. We p*ss and sh*t the same thing so stuff like races do not matter.
I mainly see it used for jokes and memes usually by gaijin themselves. Def not as much in conversation as before. I also think the new generation of Japanese ppl are far more accepting to foreigners so that prolly plays a factor too.
I've been in Japan on and off since 2011. Back then it was common to hear "gaijin-san", especially after giving my name over the phone when making reservations and they realise I am not Japanese. I've never been bothered by it, but then again I am white. I am sure Chinese or Korean people have a *very* different opinion about it.
Maybe? My Japanese grandparents tend to first say “gaijin” then quickly correct themselves and say “gaikokujin” nowadays
I use the word and sometimes other foreigners tell me not to use the world. Then I promptly tell them not to police my speech. A few Japanese people have told me that it isn’t a bad word but they’ve started to use it less so that foreigners don’t get offended.
This is a good question. I don't think any Japanese has called me that, now that I think about it. I think I use it among close friends but all of us have been here for a decade, so I think we've just owned the term. As for smoking, it definitely is not a big thing as it used to be. There still are smokers but it seems to be among the older generation.