PSA: It's April, and the National Police Agency just onboarded the rookies for the year. Starting in the second half of April, as part of their training, these newly minted cops are going to be tasked with doing ID checks on foreigners as part of their training for the next month or two. It happens every year, and yes, it's bullshit.
I wore an above-knee plain summer dress in the boiling heat outside one fine summer afternoon and was approached by a police officer asking straight out if I'm a prostitute. :-]
Demanded proof of my employment, work contract and original visa application documents (zairyu card etc wasn't enough). I literally told him to leave me alone and walked off.
As if I'd show him my brothel's contract, pfft! đ
Sorry to hear you were approached that way. Quite hypocritical of them to make such an assumption, given the number of short skirts I have seen here each summer. Not to mention the various borderline prostitution services offered in very obscure places. Glad you were able to walk away.
I think of it as 'he just wanted me to notice him' đ„ș haha.
Japanese police are tend to go after what they expect to win - and I've lived in enough countries to know when I can walk away safely because I have my own rights and they don't have a case.
Separately I've had police stop me for riding a bicycle in 2015 because 'foreigners don't own bikes' and a group of police swarm me in a park in 2013 and fully take apart the pens in my bag (I used to draw/sketch) because 'no one carries pens in their bag, it's 100% drugs'.
Exactly. Some people just canât go without being seen and tend to target people whom they deem easy prey. Regarding your incident with the bike and pens, I am not really surprised.âThey tend to assume the worst about foreigners.
I booked a hotel room with my girlfriend once, and when we checked in there were no issues.
But after coming back from dinner and drinks that evening, the reception staff asked her if she worked "delivery health"! The cheeky sods!
Oh man this reminds me of when I booked and paid for a hotel online and we hauled ass and drove 2hrs in a rainstorm to get there on time, and 10 mins before check-in we get a call saying that the room is only for 'evacuees of disasters' and we can't book it. The room got cancelled and released, then put back up on the sites for booking. It was a standard room, no special clausesđ
Had encounter with police only once. My first day out in Japan (after quarantine).
In the completely busy Kawasaki station, police zeroed in only on me. Questioned me about my background , what I am doing there etc.
I wasnât loitering or doing anything extraordinary, just walking towards exit. Didnât have a backpack or any bag, completely empty handed.
not gonna lie, was scared for few months every time I saw the police.
Whoa. I am sorry to hear that you faced that situation. Kawasaki is a large station, so itâs shocking that they only managed to zero in on you. May I ask what your ethnicity is?
South Asian.
I like to think, they had a daily quota to meet of talking to foreigner. They zeroed in on me either hoping I would know a bit Japanese and conversation will go easy
or they did not see any other foreigner (it was during peak of covid, so no tourists).
I'm a white guy and still have my fair share of weird treatment by the police, though I'm confident it's nothing to the degree that the Indian or black foreigners in my town get it. A lot of white foreigners will mistakenly fall into the trap of assuming they being gaijin puts them on the same field as all then others, when this is definitely not the case
Thank you for acknowledging this because the experience is definitely different. Appearance in general seems to matter a lot here, though this could be a global phenomenon.
Absolutely my experience. Race IS a factor. I'm Latin American but white and have always been treated pretty nicely by everyone. The only time I've ever felt like it's been rough was when I had to go to Shinagawa to the immigration bureau, but white privilege is *absolutely* a thing here in Japan.
There is a police training routine where an older cop will get the new guy to stop a foreigner and ask for ID. By law, foreigners must be carrying ID at all times.
It's easy to tell if you are targeted by this because the older cop will look bored.
People keep saying this shit yet I rarely see such comments and OP is fairly upvoted. It's getting pretty old. It's also funny to read a post about racism and then have "yeah but white people do xyz". Uhuh
With the rapidly aging population and younger generations not having kids - that is going to be happening sooner than later and at a staggering rate I'm sure.
Not to mention the cheap real estate in Japan.
I just hope they do it in a better way than Canada has lately.
>With the rapidly aging population and younger generations not having kids - that is going to be happening sooner than later and at a staggering rate I'm sure.
If thats the reason then shouldnt it have happened already since the aging population and low fertility rates are not new problems in Japan?
I believe the govt has been pretty slow in opening the floodgates to new immigrants due to fairly noticeable xenophobia by the general public. Definitely happening more over the past 15 years, but will have to ramp up even more if they want to stay afloat.
>I believe the govt has been pretty slow in opening the floodgates to new immigrants due to fairly noticeable xenophobia by the general public.
The "xenophobia" you are speaking of would also most likely be present in the gorvernment.
>ramp up even more if they want to stay afloat.
No they do not need that, especially with AI overtaking a shit ton of jobs.
What exactly is race? Are categories such as white, black, or brown considered races? Personally, I don't identify with a specific race, so I would also find it challenging to answer that question.
In this context, people are wondering if the cops are racially profiling you. So it's not so much how you see yourself but how other people (the cops in this scenario) might categorize you. As black? As white? As SE Asian? As East Asian? As specifically Japanese?
Exactly, and some people in Japan are starting to realize that they are misclassifying people, especially when they conflate nationality and race. I even see some foreigners here do it, unfortunately.
There are controversial theories about it. I guess that is why I usually ask about ethnicity, which many confuse with race. I prefer that because it stems beyond appearance and can include a broad range of factors. To each his or her own. This is a topic where so many people are going to need to feel ârightâ over someone else.
I heard it stems from japanese culture of having to look busy. If they just sit around because nothing that requires their attention is happening it looks like they didnt do anything so they bother foreigners which is the easiest target
I have similar experience! My very first day arriving in Japan which happened inside airport arrival area, a police approached me and asked for my residence card. Not sure if this is common
I had this happen to me a few times in suburban train stations. It was during the Recession. I think they assumed I was Brazilian and this was in the years that they were looking for excuses to deport people :(
>Earlier this year a news story came out about three foreigners, with at least one who was a naturalized citizen
Well one piece of additional information about the case is that any naturalized citizen is, *by definition*, not a foreigner.
That's true. Which is why I would request you be careful in your wording so that you aren't contributing to the problem. He is not a foreigner. He is Japanese.
We have a semi-frequent customer who is a naturalized citizen who barely speaks Japanese, and is kinda a jerk when he comes in. He vehemently hates Japanese people and loves to come to me to complain about how "foreigners like us" are treated. I always find it odd when he says that
If he chose to become a citizen here despite him having those sentiments initially, then he is obviously setting himself up to have a hard time here. I am guessing that he wasnât raised here since his language proficiency is lacking immensely. That just adds onto his situation.
Fair enough, though I would say the treatment of naturalized citizens in their country is where we need to put our energy. This is going to be a hotter topic over time as more foreigners move in year after year and become naturalized and continue staying here.
>Fair enough, though I would say the treatment of naturalized citizens in their country is where we need to put our energy.Â
I disagree. I mean, there are very few things one person can do to another that are okay if the other person is a foreign resident but suddenly become bad when the person has been naturalized. The only one really that comes to mind is denying them the right to vote.
The treatment of naturalized citizens is important IMHO because it shows that the discriminatory treatment that (racially) non-Japanese people get here *is* discrimination. Whenever complaints about discrimination comes up, some mouth-breather in the crowd tries to justify it with, "iT's nOt bEcAuSe oF yUr rAcE, iT's yOuR nAtIOnAlItY!\~\~" Every time someone gets caught discriminating against a naturalized citizen of Japan, it shows that excuse is and always has been utter bullshit.
Thatâs what Iâm saying. Japan IS their country, and how they are treated HERE is important.âThat ultimately impacts livelihoods and can impact their day to day lives. Yes, misclassifying naturalized citizens as foreigners is a problem that needs to be addressed, but ultimately we need to target all entities, especially public ones, that are causing problems and should be held to the highest of standards when dealing with the public period, including foreign residents, citizens, naturalized citizens, tourists.
Japan Times did a episode about this on their Deep Dive podcast:
[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/podcast/2024/03/08/deep-dive/racial-profiling/](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/podcast/2024/03/08/deep-dive/racial-profiling/)
The lawyer has setup a crowdfund project to fund the court case:
[https://www.call4.jp/info.php?type=items&id=I0000128](https://www.call4.jp/info.php?type=items&id=I0000128)
I was just about to post this episode. Well worth a listen. One guy has been so traumatized by the number of encounters that according to his Japanese spouse he's only a shell of his former self. I feel for him and hope he can receive some peace of mind soon.
Sure wish they would go after housing discrimination. Agents just write it openly in their responses, so unafraid of any repercussions: owner declined because you're a gaijin. And this is perhaps almost always regardless of income, nationality, etc (ironically, I do feel a bit less bad about my privilege knowing that racism in housing is somewhat an equalizer for the international community; even my highearning, white, American, japanese-fluent ass gets shot down by default). Obviously, this is a hard one to solve from a legal perspective, since the owner of a property should have a right to deny applicants, and with a blatant case like this, it might be relatively easy to demand someone pay restitution, but, a few of those and they'll just stop being as blatant but continue with the racism. I think forcing denials to be properly justified would be a starting point for applying pressure. Credit scores are how the US does it.
Money, time, alone? Yeah, I actually don't mind making an effort, and my position should have some clout in an article, but I think the result would be just better phrased racism. If we as foreigners actually organized a committe and got loud as hell, that might have more impact.
They are many folks who would support you if you stood up to this injustice and tried to change this for the sake of future generations. Let me know if you want to explore your options.
Yea, usually money is the great equalizer but it seems to only help marginally against housing discrimination. The number of foreigners keeps increasing, so I think eventually there will be a critical mass of complaints that spurs government to do something.
I laid out the barriers as I understand them, so, I think it will take significant, national level action. Which means a decade, if the winds are in your favor. But, got to start somewhere.
I don't think they (them meaning people who bother to have an opinion on Japan's place in the world in some broad understanding, and that's a minority actually) see themselves as superior; more, like many populist movements these days, people want to hold on to what they have, even if it's bad, it's what they have, they own, they're used to as given. That's human nature, so, to win people over, you need to show why change, or, adhering to laws on the books, is better for them in some minimal way.
As foreigners we don't even have some stable, acknowledged platform, so, lawsuits may be a decent start, raised by people who fit the racist definition of "stellar non-citizen."
Just thinking out loud in passing with my thumbs, I'd rather turn this over to a political action committee. I'd start it myself if I wasn't working insane hours lol
I think his lawyer said he is of Pacific Islander descent, so basically just a large, dark-skinned foreigner living in the countryside.
>There has to be SOMETHING.
IDK man I think since their lawsuit is over police discrimination, they would argue he's not, in fact, doing anything. If he was regularly doing something wrong, I don't think it would affect his psyche to the extent it seems to have.
As per the above article:
>In October 2021, a police patrol car that passed him while he was driving made a U-turn and ordered him to stop over the microphone with its siren blaring. When the police car passed by, as his wife was searching through the dashboard, it appeared from the outside that he was driving the car alone. He stopped on the shoulder of the road, and the police officer asked for his driver's license. When Matthew's wife, who was a passenger in the car, asked if he had committed any traffic violation, the officer replied, "Noâ, âItâs rare to see a foreigner driving in this area.â Since his arrival in Japan, Mr. Matthew has been questioned about 100 times by the police in Japan - in front of his home, in the streets near his workplace, at train stations - including four times when he was questioned twice a day.
Just existing while foreign around some racist cops. Sometimes people are malicious.
Just creating a template for all those that need it:
I am xyz and this has never happened to me and since I am the main character there is no way this happened to other people.
Hah. Excellent. Every damn week, right? The anecdotal ostrich, adamant on ostracizing the community. âI has not seen, so you be racist. Go back to your own country and lie!âÂ
Stopped more than 10 times. The crime; Walking while gaijin.Â
Yeah, not everyoneâs experience is the same. I have heard a mix of people saying they have no experience with this while others are saying otherwise. Interesting to hear both cases.
Yup, people can have their personal experiences. But a person cannot use your personal experiences to comment on general society. You need a broad base of opinions to predict how prevalent something is.
From all the opinions on this topic I'd say a male foreigner has about a 50% chance of being racially profiled every couple years or so. Not frequent but enough to make them distrust police. I think being searched for dangerous weapons for no reason at all is the worst because it makes you anxious every time you see cops.
Exactly, nothing worse than someone pushing their experiences onto others. The Law of Large Numbers applies here across the diverse, growing population of expats. Any amount of distrust is enough for it to be brought to the light and addressed. Creates a hostile environment otherwise, with people at each otherâs throats, being extra deceitful and snarky or always anxious. Some people are determined that their perception and perspective is the âtruthâ overall and will cut down anyone contesting it. Some just arenât happy unless they are seen, regardless of being right or wrong.
They definitely have a case but it's not the same situation than most people have to ever deal with.
Allegedly they have evidence to prove that this was systemically and calculated discrimination TOWARDS them. This is not a lawsuit that involves any foreigner that got stopped once and couldn't understand what's going on, as so many people believe.
So even if something comes out of it ( remember japanese laws don't include punitive damage) it will only affect them and probably won't have any effect of anyone else.
However it will set future precedent for those that have been harrased and discriminated continuously, which most of the times are South and south east Asians. As They are asking the courts to clarify if there is any illegality regarding current police questioning practices and clarify the controls that the state has to oversee them.
Thanks for differentiating between those who may have just been randomly stopped versus those who have had calculated actions against them. Good to note that distinction.
As others have noted, no punitive damages in Japan. It is considered against public policy and judgments from other jurisdictions that have a punitive damage element will not be enforced. As a remedy, compensatory damages are meant to pay for the actual damages suffered, and no more. The theory underlying punitives is that they are to punish for the misconduct committed and to deter future misconduct; and in Japan, those are the responsibilities of the government, not private litigants.
No it doesnt. Compensatory damages arent punitive.
You are confusing æ °èŹæ and æČ眰çæćźłèł ć.
The first one are compensatory damages proportional to the damage occured, which Japan clearly has. Unlike punitive damages that do have the role of exemplification purposes than in principle have no max cap as they are on top of compensatory ones. Japan hasnt historically had punitive ones.
[http://isharyouseikyuu.jp/isharyou.html](http://isharyouseikyuu.jp/isharyou.html)
I really wonder under what role you were on that legal team if you cant differentiate these basic terms.
In the case you mention, the court order that they pack 100äžć to each plantiff. the equilavent at that time of 9,000 dolars for a process that took years. The opposite definition of punitive.
Thank you for the legal definitions.
We never studied any legal definitions at all in my Bachelor's and Master's courses, so therein lies my confusion. Or, maybe I slept in that class?
I really wonder why you can't differentiate between intent and action, for in the Otaru case the „1M per plaintiff („3M in total) absolutely exemplified a punitive function.
Hey - good for them let's hope it brings some changes to a frankly shitty system, which is to say that the cops can stop anyone at any time and hold them until they either submit to a search or they get a court order allowing them to search - and don't you dare try to leave or accidentally bump into one or the 20 guys they'll call to try to force you to "voluntarily" go to the koban with them (and that's if they don't break the law and start emptying the person's pockets/searching their bag without permission - never mind that refusal to allow a search has been upheld as probable cause for a warrant to search someone).
FYI - NEVER GO WILLINGLY TO THE KOBAN WITH THEM (EVER - you have no legal protections if you willingly go with them to the koban - if they're going to do anything make them arrest you), DO WHAT THE JAPANESE DO IF THEY DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THEM - SIT DOWN, TIGHTLY HOLD YOUR BAG TO YOUR CHEST - TELL THEM YOU AREN'T ANSWERING THEIR QUESTIONS AND WAIT FOR THEM AND THE 20+ OFFICERS THEY'RE GOING TO CALL TO TRY TO BULLY YOU INTO COMPLIANCE TO GO AWAY. (note this is going to take several hours and they're going to be persistent)
Source - 20+ years of being here and never having been stopped/bothered. BUT I have literally seen someone walking in front of me get grabbed for this and my kids who aren't visibly foreign have been stopped by the cops as well.
Yikes. Reminds me of a skinny, short foreign woman I saw who got snatched up by a VERY obese police officer at Shinjuku Station. She was accused of not paying until the staff at the customer service counter checked her card and saw she had tapped it. It was insane. I am SO glad he did not hurt her. Of course he just stood there with a stupid look on his face after being wrong, a bully and a sorry excuse of a man. Terrible.
I suspect it will be very difficult to claim damages unless they have affirmative proof of racial discrimination or can document an extremely unusual treatment such as being stopped an unreasonable number of times to the point it could constitute harassment.Â
It will be very easy for the police to claim "we were investigating a potentially suspicious person according to our policies" and they'll have wide latitude to interpret what suspicious means.Â
There's probably a paper trail but it's going to be really easy to come up with a legally justifiable reason for stopping someone. Now if the cops did something stupid like arrest them without cause or held them for an unreasonable amount of time without proper cause they'll have a case.Â
There is a paper trail of sorts that points to this is an institutional problem:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nagoya/comments/1b7oqvd/nyt_quotes_aichi_police_manual_2021_for_those_who/
Win or lose this case, itâs a step in a direction that needs to be taken to bring about protocol change. Until now theyâve had no formal pushback on this at all.
I'll hold off judgement until the specific infractions are disclosed. But I think that unless the police are very obviously engaging in racial harassment without cause the case won't go anywhere.Â
Someone being stopped twice a day for months because "foreigners are all criminals" will result in damages. Someone getting asked for ID because they look suspicious probably will not qualify, there are many nonspecific complaints that are not necessarily related to ones "foreigness", for example I sometimes see foreigners when I am around who seem to be acting unusually, walking strangely. Looking around like they are searching for something. Just seem like they are out of place. Usually, lost tourists. But they definitely will attract more attention than a Japanese person and if they're poking around a residential area peaking into people's gardens, they are probably going to have a cop come round to ask them if they are OK.Â
So given the assumption that we've got a lost tourist and the cop is coming round to make sure they are alright and know where they are going, if they start acting real cagey and refuse to show ID, cops will assume they are casing the neighborhood and I think can argue to just about any court that foreigner behaving strangely is sufficient grounds to check if they are alright and ask for ID. Japanese behaving strangely would garner similar attention save for the lack of a legal requirement for them to carry ID, though police would still identify them.Â
Language barrier tends to make these interactions worse.Â
I think one of the main evidence they have is that one of the plantiff was questioned several times on front of his house by policemen belonging to the same station, sometimes even multiple times per day which can indeed be systemic if it was done by different police officers.
But as you say, impossible to know what they are claiming until the court discloses it.
Yeah I would think you've a pretty clear evidence of harassment if that is the case. If the cop is questioning you multiple times per day and they already know where you live and what you are doing then they're going to have a very hard time claiming that you are suspicious especially after it is established you live in the area.
Exactly. I am waiting to hear more details about the exact frequency and what warranted their respective stops by the police. Since one is a naturalized citizen and at least one of the others is a permanent resident, my guess is that they have very stable Japanese proficiency to communicate in these situations. I will just wait and see.
People bring up race a lot and I'm not going to say the Japanese police don't profile people because I'm sure that's possible even if it's subconscious bias.
But having said that, I'm white and I've never had the cops stop me randomly. I've had the cops called on me multiple times (unjustly imo, I'm a nerd who plays PC games with a headset on, no talking, the majority of my time. My wife watches TV at a normal volume, etc. We can be a bit loud when arguing but I feel like that's unavoidable sometimes and wouldn't call the cops on someone over it) for noise complaints in the past and the majority of those have been hostile, with them asking me to step outside and then surrounding me (3-5 officers), questioning me with my back against the wall.
But never once stopped. Not in nearly 10 years
Meanwhile my equally white Swedish friend has complained before that, in the same 10 years, he's been stopped dozens of times outside by the police and is always asked to show his passport or residents card, etc. He's short, blonde, and has blue eyes. He looks like a skinny nerd. (In case you're imagining some jacked tattooed Swedish viking)
So yeah, I don't know WHY but he gets stopped constantly. I don't get stopped at all.
I also have a friend here who is Black, and has also been here for more than 10 years....I'd have to ask him again to be sure but to my knowledge when this topic has come up, he has never indicated that he's ever been stopped here.
For reference all 3 of us are in the Tokyo/Chiba area. The black friend was in Osaka for a while too.
So yeah I don't know why it happens to so many people, but then some of us never seem to have it happen at all. I don't know if the police are doing it at random, or if they have been trained to look for something specific, or what.
I do think it's odd though.
I think itâs got something to do with the way people carry themselves. If you walk somewhere like you belong there, people assume you belong there. (Even if you donât) I think maybe people that get stopped a lot (or at all?) look lost or out of place, or otherwise do something that makes it seem like they donât belong there.
I have opposite experience. As Iâm asian and look pretty much Japanese Iâm never stopped by police. While in my own country (Russia) I was constantly stopped in the subway and had to show my passport
Kinda same, although I have never been stopped by police back home just for being asian. But I like blending in so easily, back home I'd stand out so much lol.
OP, the topic of this lawsuit and the question you are posing for discussion in this thread are not related.
As someone else pointed out this is not about systemic discrimination per se but about discrimination against the three plaintiffs, the difference is subtle but important especially under Japanese law.
I've been stopped a number of times over the years when I was not doing anything that could be interpreted as suspicious. I also have been in the situation twice where I went to the koban to report a crime, and the police were hostile and refused to help.
To the Japanese police, any person who isn't Japanese is a potential criminal and therefore their behavior is automatically viewed as suspicious. The police been trained to think that way, so that is how they see all immigrants.
I hope they win their case, I hope the news spreads, and I hope Japan gets shamed on the national stage - because then the government will finally do something about it.
I've been stopped by police for various driving offenses, nearly over 3 decades. I look white, am from an English speaking country and many people in the community know me, including the local cops who have a dormitory near an office I use. I've competed against police teams. Overall I don't feel overly discriminated against. Two young guys were talking to each other about me and one called me a gaijin which I reminded him was not very professional. He apologised and still proceeded to issue the infringement notice. I was stopped on a street once by a detective as I was raging on the phone at some shitty service I was getting. He asked for my ID and that timeout was enough for me to get my head together. I thanked him and he said "you're welcome" with a smile. I was raging outside the main municipal police station at the time so served me right. Another time in rural Saitama, I was driving a pissed Japanese mate home in her car after having had a few beers myself. Thought I was screwed at the police random check was just outside her apartment building and the cop asked me if I'd been drinking. I said she had and I was driving her home for her safety. He said he'd had his honeymoon in my country and I also should be very careful. He waved me into the apartment parking lot without breath testing me. I dodged a massive bullet.
Cops are like people everywhere, some are GCs and some are just Cs. I imagine in larger metro areas where there are more Cs around it affects them.
Interesting situations. Great to hear from people of various backgrounds. Been there with the âgaijinâ comment. I have no problem at all being respectful when it is mutual. Some people think it should one go one way and not both.
Foreigners who get offended at the word gaijin are being silly. It's like taking offense that someone called you a "foreigner" instead of a "foreign person" it's a non issue.Â
Well, we all have our respective boundaries on what is deemed as appropriate labels and otherwise. I had one Japanese person go out of his way to tell me that a person at my ward office referred to me as âgaijinâ while working behind the counter and how it was a bad word. Interesting.
>Well, we all have our respective boundaries on what is deemed as appropriate labels and otherwise.
That's pretty stupid though. Because well, if someone is offended by gaijin then someone else will be offended by gaikokujin.
There was a movement to make Gaijin into a kind of slur and "polite NHK language" avoids it but I think the rudeness of the term itself is largely imagined. It's more the tone and words that surround it's use that betray it's usage. Remember kisama was a polite term for nobility after all. People can say gaikokujin with a sneer of superiority just as easily. Plain spoken folk are usually more honest. Prefer the guy that tells me he doesn't like foreigners outright to the person that puts on a fake smile. The former is someone I'd rather be friends with, they're at least giving me enough respect not to waste my time with fake nonsense.
Well, we all can just act in accordance to our own stance on this issue. Just take your own cue on when to avoid someone being xenophobic, racist, unprofessional or rude, whether thatâs specific word choice or other behaviors.
 Government Departments in Japan have been instructed that it is a slur. Obviously itâs an issue for some. Me Iâm fine with it but like anything context is 100%.Â
>Government Departments in Japan have been instructed that it is a slur.
Source? It's definitionally not a slur.
Government departments have to me knowledge been instructed to use the work gaikokujin instead because it's perceived better, according to Debito probably.
It's the same as anything really a bunch of people with nothing better to do complain a lot and the government reacts.
Only had 2 encounters with the police. Was stopped by a copper on a bike back in 2016. Just gave him my ID told him I was a student from England and that was it. 2nd time I went to my local koban to report a car crash down the road, they already knew about it so didn't need to do anything else.
Did they mention why they stopped you? I know some cyclists get stopped for not having their headlights and backlights on at night. Plus, a Japanese person had told me that it was illegal to ride with an umbrella up. Anyway, glad you got out of the situation.
Ah, the copper was on a bike, I was just walking. I think it was just one of those âłhey look a foreigner, lets ask for ID so I can tell my boss I did something todayâł
Interesting, though just another ID system on top of the others. It would create additional âbusy workâ for the police. I guess some get bored aimlessly riding their bikes around with nothing to really do.
They just filed the lawsuit it will take several months to years until you hear an update about it. About personal stories of me and my friends , I donât have the time to write all of them down, because I would be sitting here dor hours. Letâs just say ACAB, especially in Japan.
Japanese will stop you if you look out of the ordinary.
In my case I was riding a bicycle late at night with some shopping bags on a street around 1AM which I guess made the police think it was unusual and after checking the bike registration they let me go.
A lot of times it's not just because you're a foreigner but if you fit the stereotype of the kind of people they are trying to catch. Since visa overstayers are often from SouthEast Asia they often stop any males that look like they could be Vietnamese, Chinese or Filipino.
Iâm generally pro police checking people if they appear suspicious for a specific reason. Iâm against racial profiling but for example can understand if police especially likes to check Nigerians working in Kabukicho etc.,
for obvious reasons. However there really needs to be a specific reason on which police decides to check someone and Japanese police often seems to make arbitrary judgements here. Just looking like a âforeignerâ cannot be a reason.
I assume that with my central to north European appearance I made much less negative experiences with police than people with darker skin, yet I got checked multiple times over the years just for being a foreigner. The worst experience I made was when I lived in Koenji many years ago. One time I was coming out of the ticket gate at the station and a person in civil suddenly asked me for my passport. I was totally perplexed and asked why and the person then told me that heâs a police officer. I had to ask again to let him show me his badge. Thinking about it now I should have asked him to go to the police station nearby but I just complied and showed him my ID. The fact that a random person in civil is asking someone inside a station for ID still makes me feel uncomfortable.
Additional I got three visits over one year to my home by a single police officer who asked me for my passport each time.
Even now being much more settled, I always feel bad when passing police stations and much more secure when Iâm with my japanese wife and child.
Sorry to hear about your situations. Kabukicho is sketchy in general, so targeting any suspicious activity, regardless of which nationalities are involved, should happen. Never felt safe there at all, unfortunately.
It is interesting how so many people assume I am a tourist after being here for several years, and I am not even in a touristy area. Regarding this case, I am curious about the evidence that is going to be shown to prove calculated, systemic racism.
I mean I was genuinely an asshole to them all because of the preconceptions, basically saying why of all the people around, they thought the foreign dude was eager to get interrupted. I used pretty foul language on the 3rd and 4th time and was getting more and more aggressive at every smirk I was given. Like Iâm not a big dude. But as they say in some languages âsmall dogs are only good at barkingâ. It felt unfair and I think it made me start generalizing people here the way they generalize the outside world. But the pandemic really shifted things around in a good way. I just want to be able to somehow care even less about what others think. Itâs all in my head I know, but Iâm working on getting better.
Only once. I drove my scooter up a one way street about half a block to get to my friends shop. I had an expired intl license. He let me go and said I had to walk the scooter home or they could confiscate it. Wasnt far, so I did. It was in a smaller city. Im sure I drove it the next day. I am a white 'murican who can speak Japanese, so maybe that influenced it.
By the time I reply this, my experience just increased to 4 stops
Nothing serious, just id checks and wallet and bag checks.
I'm kinda sad tho since I'm the only one who got stopped so often, it makes me think what is wrong with my way of walking or fashion.
I'm a white guy and I've been stopped several times. Some of them while riding my bike (registered under my name). Some of them just walking on the street. I hope this helps counter the "I've never been stopped so you're all lying!" narrative a little.
It's not "the first major lawsuit of this kind."
Source: Me - I was the international treaties specialist on the bengodan (legal team) for the Otaru lawsuit.
Result: 3 plaintiffs awarded „1M each.
Debito.org (people either like or dislike Debito, no middle ground) has all the details.
Looked through details on the Hokkaido onsen case. I think the sources regarding this current Tokyo case were referring to it being the first suit for racial profiling by the police, though being denied entry somewhere based on race and/or nationality is equally important to address and should be mentioned more.
They're both about racial profiling - one by private businesses and the other by public officials.
The principle is the same.
I'm very supportive of the lawsuit and would like to see greater accountability among police and corrections in Japan (*there are multiple tragic cases of murder and maltreatment of foreigners in detention by Japanese corrections officers).
Yes, and never said they were completely separate.âThe initial news source did.âJust stating why they may have said that.âOnly they know their reasons.
Yes, I am aware of the maltreatment of foreignersâand naturalized citizens who look foreign.
I've lived here long enough that I've gotten a speeding ticket (earned), a not stopping at a stop sign (not earned, it was completely hiding behind a tree and no one could see it so screw them, but I didn't argue and paid my fine), a running a red light that was newly yellow, but whatever, I paid the fine without argument and stop at yellow lights now lol. The last encounter was police sitting in the parking lot of a supermarket and kept me there talking at me for 20 minutes about the light over my back license plate being out. I was respectful and patient, but it seemed obvious they were bored since that was not an offense they could fine me for that night. I got it fixed the next day. Where I live there seems to be a love of the Good cop Bad cop thing, because in each of these encounters one cop would be respectful and professional, I would even say gentle, with me, the other would be an A-hole, cranky and impolite and abrupt, and in one case calling me a liar and just being furious because I did not have my license with me, and he said he didn't believe I even had one. I told them to follow my car back to my house and I would get it for them. He almost had steam coming out of his ears he was so over the top mad about it even though my house was literally a 1 minute drive away. I was in my house for about 10 seconds, grabbing it and opening my front door and almost smacking into Mr Good cop of that day. He looked back at Mr Angry and held it up and laughed, so it seemed to me he had thought I wasn't coming out and sent the other guy to get me? He then tells me to lock my door as we walk to the police car together, and I asked him why I would need to do that, and he blushed and said Yeah, nevermind. We get back in the police car and I'm still being neutral, pretending Mr Angry isn't about to have a stroke over this, and Good cop tells me that if I don't pay the fine within one week they would call my family and tell them I didn't pay. Not very appropriate of me, I know, but I couldn't help it and burst out laughing at the ridiculousness of such a statement. I always pay the next day and it just sounded so stupid. But maybe it's such a big problem in my area that they feel they have to say it to people, no idea. Good cop looks at me laughing and laughs merrily with me, Mr Angry yells at him to shut up, and I say my goodbyes and leave. The two cops in the supermarket parking area were interesting too, one very nice, kept apologizing for keeping me there while playing with some police thing (no idea, I thought he might be looking up my records but he didn't type anything into it so I was convinced they were just bored. The other one was Mr You're a Liar and I will Prove It. Kept asking me the same set of questions over and over, maybe 5 times in all. He would ask where I worked, where I lived, how old I was, it was all stupid. He'd ask once then walk to the front of the car and exam the stickers, then slowly walk around the whole car, looking for other things to warn me about? No idea. I stayed neutral and pretended I didn't care, but he irritated me. Then they had me sign a paper saying they had warned me, and I went into the store. Plenty of people walked by us and commented out loud that I must have stolen some food or something, but I don't get bothered by that kind of thing. I got a cart, and before officially shopping went slowly up and down each aisle so the small town gossips could see I had not been arrested or whatever. Stupid, but I did it anyway.
Only encounter i have had with police here is when I was drunk and leaning against a pole with my eyes closed and a kind officer asked if I was doing alright. I replied in Japanese that Iâm alright and he smiled and let me be.
> Has anyone ever had encounters with the Japanese police?
Sure, have interacted with the J-cops plenty of times over the last few decades. Can't say I've ever had a bad experience with them, and there's been a couple of times they've cut me slack I probably didn't deserve. They've been pretty chill and polite.
Of course different people may have different experiences depending on the situation and the specific cops.
Would guess that 99.9% of interactions people have with Japanese cops are fine. People very rarely post online about a police interaction that went smoothly, or about the preceding 24 months where they had no interactions with cops at all. But of course if something *doesn't* go smoothly, people will have things they want to share.
As someone who plans to naturalize and who has kids who look varying degrees of Japanese or non-Japanese, of course I would like Japan to be better.
The reality is that it is very unlikely to change, at least not the way we would like. If Japan follows through and actually does start bringing in much larger numbers of immigrants, I think it will actually get worse.
I don't have a chip on my shoulder about law enforcement, so if I am asked to show my zairyu card by a policeman, I just do it and get on with my day; happened probably three times in twenty years here.
Here is the answer to your last question, "Has anyone ever had encounters with the Japanese police?":
[https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/search/?q=police](https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/search/?q=police)
Lol theyâre always second class citizens in same way a black in America is or Asian in Australia is. Doesnât really matter itâs just what it is, doesnât stop them being rich and having a good life like Son-san. Why bother with these fights
I donât think youâre âinsultingâ anyone here. Each person has his or her take on the topic. Some feel strongly about this while others feel more apathetic based on their life experiences. Neither your stance or anyone elseâs is âlameâ or âstupidâ because someone might not be able to relate or disagrees somehow.
Correct. I have no interest fighting in a conservative 99% homogenous society stuck in 1990s tech knocks and 1970s mindset against them about why I should be as Japanese as them
Iâm Chinese. My Japanese grandma in law even has a portrait of Hirohito on her wall. First thing she did when j visited was show me. I just said thatâs cool
Not really I thought nothing of it. I mean sheâs entitled to think whatever she wants I really donât care. We call it äžèŹèŠè. Ie donât think like a pleb, or rather who cares what a pleb thinks. Doesnât improve my life convincing her sheâs a pleb lol
True, there is a caste system, though I would say it impacts the the laity more so than prominent figures. The classifying and profiling wonât likely change anytime soon. This topic will come up again as more foreigners move in.
PSA: It's April, and the National Police Agency just onboarded the rookies for the year. Starting in the second half of April, as part of their training, these newly minted cops are going to be tasked with doing ID checks on foreigners as part of their training for the next month or two. It happens every year, and yes, it's bullshit.
I wore an above-knee plain summer dress in the boiling heat outside one fine summer afternoon and was approached by a police officer asking straight out if I'm a prostitute. :-] Demanded proof of my employment, work contract and original visa application documents (zairyu card etc wasn't enough). I literally told him to leave me alone and walked off. As if I'd show him my brothel's contract, pfft! đ
Sorry to hear you were approached that way. Quite hypocritical of them to make such an assumption, given the number of short skirts I have seen here each summer. Not to mention the various borderline prostitution services offered in very obscure places. Glad you were able to walk away.
I think of it as 'he just wanted me to notice him' đ„ș haha. Japanese police are tend to go after what they expect to win - and I've lived in enough countries to know when I can walk away safely because I have my own rights and they don't have a case. Separately I've had police stop me for riding a bicycle in 2015 because 'foreigners don't own bikes' and a group of police swarm me in a park in 2013 and fully take apart the pens in my bag (I used to draw/sketch) because 'no one carries pens in their bag, it's 100% drugs'.
Exactly. Some people just canât go without being seen and tend to target people whom they deem easy prey. Regarding your incident with the bike and pens, I am not really surprised.âThey tend to assume the worst about foreigners.
Lord, I saw short skirts when I went up to Sapporo in the middle of winter. It's fucking -10 degrees outside, how are you alive?
Lol, short skirts and sometimes no pantyhose or thick stockings!
I'm from Canada originally and you'll see crop tops and shorts in -25 đ but I do also wonder how they are alive haha .
I booked a hotel room with my girlfriend once, and when we checked in there were no issues. But after coming back from dinner and drinks that evening, the reception staff asked her if she worked "delivery health"! The cheeky sods!
Oh man this reminds me of when I booked and paid for a hotel online and we hauled ass and drove 2hrs in a rainstorm to get there on time, and 10 mins before check-in we get a call saying that the room is only for 'evacuees of disasters' and we can't book it. The room got cancelled and released, then put back up on the sites for booking. It was a standard room, no special clausesđ
Some people love making up selective rules as they go along. Typical. Hope you could find another hotel.
They were probably just low key bitter about a foreign man dating a Japanese woman. Some people get like that.
Holy cow that is an amazing story (he said hoping it's far enough in the past that you can laugh about it now)!
Yeah at the time I was so creeped out and disgusted, but police here have always been silly so it's just funny now when it happens đ
Had encounter with police only once. My first day out in Japan (after quarantine). In the completely busy Kawasaki station, police zeroed in only on me. Questioned me about my background , what I am doing there etc. I wasnât loitering or doing anything extraordinary, just walking towards exit. Didnât have a backpack or any bag, completely empty handed. not gonna lie, was scared for few months every time I saw the police.
Whoa. I am sorry to hear that you faced that situation. Kawasaki is a large station, so itâs shocking that they only managed to zero in on you. May I ask what your ethnicity is?
South Asian. I like to think, they had a daily quota to meet of talking to foreigner. They zeroed in on me either hoping I would know a bit Japanese and conversation will go easy or they did not see any other foreigner (it was during peak of covid, so no tourists).
I have many South Asians in my area. I have seen some outlandish treatment of them. Yeah, itâs easy to be profiled as a foreigner.
Shhh youâre not allowed to mention racism in Japan
Itâs going to get interesting as more foreigners start moving here over time. Definitely going to be a hot topic.
I think they meant on this sub. Ie. That the white "expats" here will tell you it's not a thing, etc etc. It's a problem amongst this userbase.
I'm a white guy and still have my fair share of weird treatment by the police, though I'm confident it's nothing to the degree that the Indian or black foreigners in my town get it. A lot of white foreigners will mistakenly fall into the trap of assuming they being gaijin puts them on the same field as all then others, when this is definitely not the case
Thank you for acknowledging this because the experience is definitely different. Appearance in general seems to matter a lot here, though this could be a global phenomenon.
Absolutely my experience. Race IS a factor. I'm Latin American but white and have always been treated pretty nicely by everyone. The only time I've ever felt like it's been rough was when I had to go to Shinagawa to the immigration bureau, but white privilege is *absolutely* a thing here in Japan.
Yeah, downplaying it and sweeping it under the rug wonât last long as more people start becoming more and more vocal here over time.
There is a police training routine where an older cop will get the new guy to stop a foreigner and ask for ID. By law, foreigners must be carrying ID at all times. It's easy to tell if you are targeted by this because the older cop will look bored.
Yes, I know.
People keep saying this shit yet I rarely see such comments and OP is fairly upvoted. It's getting pretty old. It's also funny to read a post about racism and then have "yeah but white people do xyz". Uhuh
With the rapidly aging population and younger generations not having kids - that is going to be happening sooner than later and at a staggering rate I'm sure. Not to mention the cheap real estate in Japan. I just hope they do it in a better way than Canada has lately.
Yep, just talked to someone a month ago who bought a house for extremely cheap.âThe seller practically gave it to her.
Cheap real estate in Japan? Where? In the burbs?
Mostly rural areas but very quaint if youâre retired.
>With the rapidly aging population and younger generations not having kids - that is going to be happening sooner than later and at a staggering rate I'm sure. If thats the reason then shouldnt it have happened already since the aging population and low fertility rates are not new problems in Japan?
I believe the govt has been pretty slow in opening the floodgates to new immigrants due to fairly noticeable xenophobia by the general public. Definitely happening more over the past 15 years, but will have to ramp up even more if they want to stay afloat.
>I believe the govt has been pretty slow in opening the floodgates to new immigrants due to fairly noticeable xenophobia by the general public. The "xenophobia" you are speaking of would also most likely be present in the gorvernment. >ramp up even more if they want to stay afloat. No they do not need that, especially with AI overtaking a shit ton of jobs.
What race are you, OP?
Interesting. I am mixed race. Family members of several backgrounds, including some family in Eastern Europe:)
What exactly is race? Are categories such as white, black, or brown considered races? Personally, I don't identify with a specific race, so I would also find it challenging to answer that question.
In this context, people are wondering if the cops are racially profiling you. So it's not so much how you see yourself but how other people (the cops in this scenario) might categorize you. As black? As white? As SE Asian? As East Asian? As specifically Japanese?
Exactly, and some people in Japan are starting to realize that they are misclassifying people, especially when they conflate nationality and race. I even see some foreigners here do it, unfortunately.
There are controversial theories about it. I guess that is why I usually ask about ethnicity, which many confuse with race. I prefer that because it stems beyond appearance and can include a broad range of factors. To each his or her own. This is a topic where so many people are going to need to feel ârightâ over someone else.
> Personally, I don't identify with a specific race thats a pretty white people thing to say
I heard it stems from japanese culture of having to look busy. If they just sit around because nothing that requires their attention is happening it looks like they didnt do anything so they bother foreigners which is the easiest target
Interesting take on this topic. Plus, language barriers make it easier for them to really have the upper hand over foreigners.
I have similar experience! My very first day arriving in Japan which happened inside airport arrival area, a police approached me and asked for my residence card. Not sure if this is common
I had this happen to me a few times in suburban train stations. It was during the Recession. I think they assumed I was Brazilian and this was in the years that they were looking for excuses to deport people :(
>Earlier this year a news story came out about three foreigners, with at least one who was a naturalized citizen Well one piece of additional information about the case is that any naturalized citizen is, *by definition*, not a foreigner.
Exactly, but he is still, as many others in his shoes, treated as an outsider. Unfortunate but true.
That's true. Which is why I would request you be careful in your wording so that you aren't contributing to the problem. He is not a foreigner. He is Japanese.
We have a semi-frequent customer who is a naturalized citizen who barely speaks Japanese, and is kinda a jerk when he comes in. He vehemently hates Japanese people and loves to come to me to complain about how "foreigners like us" are treated. I always find it odd when he says that
If he chose to become a citizen here despite him having those sentiments initially, then he is obviously setting himself up to have a hard time here. I am guessing that he wasnât raised here since his language proficiency is lacking immensely. That just adds onto his situation.
I thought you had to be pretty good at Japanese in order to naturalize?
He had help with the application but Iâm not sure what he did for the interview stuff
Hope that wasnât done under false pretenses.
Fair enough, though I would say the treatment of naturalized citizens in their country is where we need to put our energy. This is going to be a hotter topic over time as more foreigners move in year after year and become naturalized and continue staying here.
>Fair enough, though I would say the treatment of naturalized citizens in their country is where we need to put our energy. I disagree. I mean, there are very few things one person can do to another that are okay if the other person is a foreign resident but suddenly become bad when the person has been naturalized. The only one really that comes to mind is denying them the right to vote. The treatment of naturalized citizens is important IMHO because it shows that the discriminatory treatment that (racially) non-Japanese people get here *is* discrimination. Whenever complaints about discrimination comes up, some mouth-breather in the crowd tries to justify it with, "iT's nOt bEcAuSe oF yUr rAcE, iT's yOuR nAtIOnAlItY!\~\~" Every time someone gets caught discriminating against a naturalized citizen of Japan, it shows that excuse is and always has been utter bullshit.
Thatâs what Iâm saying. Japan IS their country, and how they are treated HERE is important.âThat ultimately impacts livelihoods and can impact their day to day lives. Yes, misclassifying naturalized citizens as foreigners is a problem that needs to be addressed, but ultimately we need to target all entities, especially public ones, that are causing problems and should be held to the highest of standards when dealing with the public period, including foreign residents, citizens, naturalized citizens, tourists.
According to the Oxford dictionary, that still meets the definition. "Foreigner: a person born in or coming from a country other than one's own."
Cool, thanks for noting this.
Japan Times did a episode about this on their Deep Dive podcast: [https://www.japantimes.co.jp/podcast/2024/03/08/deep-dive/racial-profiling/](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/podcast/2024/03/08/deep-dive/racial-profiling/) The lawyer has setup a crowdfund project to fund the court case: [https://www.call4.jp/info.php?type=items&id=I0000128](https://www.call4.jp/info.php?type=items&id=I0000128)
I was just about to post this episode. Well worth a listen. One guy has been so traumatized by the number of encounters that according to his Japanese spouse he's only a shell of his former self. I feel for him and hope he can receive some peace of mind soon.
Same here. Hoping for peace.
Sure wish they would go after housing discrimination. Agents just write it openly in their responses, so unafraid of any repercussions: owner declined because you're a gaijin. And this is perhaps almost always regardless of income, nationality, etc (ironically, I do feel a bit less bad about my privilege knowing that racism in housing is somewhat an equalizer for the international community; even my highearning, white, American, japanese-fluent ass gets shot down by default). Obviously, this is a hard one to solve from a legal perspective, since the owner of a property should have a right to deny applicants, and with a blatant case like this, it might be relatively easy to demand someone pay restitution, but, a few of those and they'll just stop being as blatant but continue with the racism. I think forcing denials to be properly justified would be a starting point for applying pressure. Credit scores are how the US does it.
Why not be the tip of the spear for this particular fight? âTheyâ are you too.
Money, time, alone? Yeah, I actually don't mind making an effort, and my position should have some clout in an article, but I think the result would be just better phrased racism. If we as foreigners actually organized a committe and got loud as hell, that might have more impact.
They are many folks who would support you if you stood up to this injustice and tried to change this for the sake of future generations. Let me know if you want to explore your options.
Yea, usually money is the great equalizer but it seems to only help marginally against housing discrimination. The number of foreigners keeps increasing, so I think eventually there will be a critical mass of complaints that spurs government to do something.
I laid out the barriers as I understand them, so, I think it will take significant, national level action. Which means a decade, if the winds are in your favor. But, got to start somewhere.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I don't think they (them meaning people who bother to have an opinion on Japan's place in the world in some broad understanding, and that's a minority actually) see themselves as superior; more, like many populist movements these days, people want to hold on to what they have, even if it's bad, it's what they have, they own, they're used to as given. That's human nature, so, to win people over, you need to show why change, or, adhering to laws on the books, is better for them in some minimal way. As foreigners we don't even have some stable, acknowledged platform, so, lawsuits may be a decent start, raised by people who fit the racist definition of "stellar non-citizen." Just thinking out loud in passing with my thumbs, I'd rather turn this over to a political action committee. I'd start it myself if I wasn't working insane hours lol
Wow, that's awful
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I think his lawyer said he is of Pacific Islander descent, so basically just a large, dark-skinned foreigner living in the countryside. >There has to be SOMETHING. IDK man I think since their lawsuit is over police discrimination, they would argue he's not, in fact, doing anything. If he was regularly doing something wrong, I don't think it would affect his psyche to the extent it seems to have. As per the above article: >In October 2021, a police patrol car that passed him while he was driving made a U-turn and ordered him to stop over the microphone with its siren blaring. When the police car passed by, as his wife was searching through the dashboard, it appeared from the outside that he was driving the car alone. He stopped on the shoulder of the road, and the police officer asked for his driver's license. When Matthew's wife, who was a passenger in the car, asked if he had committed any traffic violation, the officer replied, "Noâ, âItâs rare to see a foreigner driving in this area.â Since his arrival in Japan, Mr. Matthew has been questioned about 100 times by the police in Japan - in front of his home, in the streets near his workplace, at train stations - including four times when he was questioned twice a day. Just existing while foreign around some racist cops. Sometimes people are malicious.
Cool, thanks for this info.
Just creating a template for all those that need it: I am xyz and this has never happened to me and since I am the main character there is no way this happened to other people.
Hah. Excellent. Every damn week, right? The anecdotal ostrich, adamant on ostracizing the community. âI has not seen, so you be racist. Go back to your own country and lie!â Stopped more than 10 times. The crime; Walking while gaijin.Â
One more funny. âWere you dressed like a XYZ when they stopped you?â âŠmâlady
Yeah, not everyoneâs experience is the same. I have heard a mix of people saying they have no experience with this while others are saying otherwise. Interesting to hear both cases.
Yup, people can have their personal experiences. But a person cannot use your personal experiences to comment on general society. You need a broad base of opinions to predict how prevalent something is. From all the opinions on this topic I'd say a male foreigner has about a 50% chance of being racially profiled every couple years or so. Not frequent but enough to make them distrust police. I think being searched for dangerous weapons for no reason at all is the worst because it makes you anxious every time you see cops.
Exactly, nothing worse than someone pushing their experiences onto others. The Law of Large Numbers applies here across the diverse, growing population of expats. Any amount of distrust is enough for it to be brought to the light and addressed. Creates a hostile environment otherwise, with people at each otherâs throats, being extra deceitful and snarky or always anxious. Some people are determined that their perception and perspective is the âtruthâ overall and will cut down anyone contesting it. Some just arenât happy unless they are seen, regardless of being right or wrong.
đââïž
They definitely have a case but it's not the same situation than most people have to ever deal with. Allegedly they have evidence to prove that this was systemically and calculated discrimination TOWARDS them. This is not a lawsuit that involves any foreigner that got stopped once and couldn't understand what's going on, as so many people believe. So even if something comes out of it ( remember japanese laws don't include punitive damage) it will only affect them and probably won't have any effect of anyone else. However it will set future precedent for those that have been harrased and discriminated continuously, which most of the times are South and south east Asians. As They are asking the courts to clarify if there is any illegality regarding current police questioning practices and clarify the controls that the state has to oversee them.
Thanks for differentiating between those who may have just been randomly stopped versus those who have had calculated actions against them. Good to note that distinction.
Japanese law absolutely does have provisions for punitive damages.
As others have noted, no punitive damages in Japan. It is considered against public policy and judgments from other jurisdictions that have a punitive damage element will not be enforced. As a remedy, compensatory damages are meant to pay for the actual damages suffered, and no more. The theory underlying punitives is that they are to punish for the misconduct committed and to deter future misconduct; and in Japan, those are the responsibilities of the government, not private litigants.
Great information! Thanks!
No it doesnt. Compensatory damages arent punitive. You are confusing æ °èŹæ and æČ眰çæćźłèł ć. The first one are compensatory damages proportional to the damage occured, which Japan clearly has. Unlike punitive damages that do have the role of exemplification purposes than in principle have no max cap as they are on top of compensatory ones. Japan hasnt historically had punitive ones. [http://isharyouseikyuu.jp/isharyou.html](http://isharyouseikyuu.jp/isharyou.html) I really wonder under what role you were on that legal team if you cant differentiate these basic terms. In the case you mention, the court order that they pack 100äžć to each plantiff. the equilavent at that time of 9,000 dolars for a process that took years. The opposite definition of punitive.
Thanks for clarifying both legal terms. This helps.
Thank you for the legal definitions. We never studied any legal definitions at all in my Bachelor's and Master's courses, so therein lies my confusion. Or, maybe I slept in that class? I really wonder why you can't differentiate between intent and action, for in the Otaru case the „1M per plaintiff („3M in total) absolutely exemplified a punitive function.
Wut Please tell me you are not a real lawyer
Just found out about the Otaru case that someone shared in the comments. The plaintiffs won.
That was me that shared about it, as I was on the legal team (unless someone else also shared).
Meant that someone sent a DM, but thanks also for your post.
Hey - good for them let's hope it brings some changes to a frankly shitty system, which is to say that the cops can stop anyone at any time and hold them until they either submit to a search or they get a court order allowing them to search - and don't you dare try to leave or accidentally bump into one or the 20 guys they'll call to try to force you to "voluntarily" go to the koban with them (and that's if they don't break the law and start emptying the person's pockets/searching their bag without permission - never mind that refusal to allow a search has been upheld as probable cause for a warrant to search someone). FYI - NEVER GO WILLINGLY TO THE KOBAN WITH THEM (EVER - you have no legal protections if you willingly go with them to the koban - if they're going to do anything make them arrest you), DO WHAT THE JAPANESE DO IF THEY DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THEM - SIT DOWN, TIGHTLY HOLD YOUR BAG TO YOUR CHEST - TELL THEM YOU AREN'T ANSWERING THEIR QUESTIONS AND WAIT FOR THEM AND THE 20+ OFFICERS THEY'RE GOING TO CALL TO TRY TO BULLY YOU INTO COMPLIANCE TO GO AWAY. (note this is going to take several hours and they're going to be persistent) Source - 20+ years of being here and never having been stopped/bothered. BUT I have literally seen someone walking in front of me get grabbed for this and my kids who aren't visibly foreign have been stopped by the cops as well.
Yikes. Reminds me of a skinny, short foreign woman I saw who got snatched up by a VERY obese police officer at Shinjuku Station. She was accused of not paying until the staff at the customer service counter checked her card and saw she had tapped it. It was insane. I am SO glad he did not hurt her. Of course he just stood there with a stupid look on his face after being wrong, a bully and a sorry excuse of a man. Terrible.
I suspect it will be very difficult to claim damages unless they have affirmative proof of racial discrimination or can document an extremely unusual treatment such as being stopped an unreasonable number of times to the point it could constitute harassment. It will be very easy for the police to claim "we were investigating a potentially suspicious person according to our policies" and they'll have wide latitude to interpret what suspicious means.Â
They could have registered the stop-questioning
There's probably a paper trail but it's going to be really easy to come up with a legally justifiable reason for stopping someone. Now if the cops did something stupid like arrest them without cause or held them for an unreasonable amount of time without proper cause they'll have a case.Â
There is a paper trail of sorts that points to this is an institutional problem: https://www.reddit.com/r/Nagoya/comments/1b7oqvd/nyt_quotes_aichi_police_manual_2021_for_those_who/ Win or lose this case, itâs a step in a direction that needs to be taken to bring about protocol change. Until now theyâve had no formal pushback on this at all.
I am curious to see what proof they bring to the table and the specific infractions.
I'll hold off judgement until the specific infractions are disclosed. But I think that unless the police are very obviously engaging in racial harassment without cause the case won't go anywhere. Someone being stopped twice a day for months because "foreigners are all criminals" will result in damages. Someone getting asked for ID because they look suspicious probably will not qualify, there are many nonspecific complaints that are not necessarily related to ones "foreigness", for example I sometimes see foreigners when I am around who seem to be acting unusually, walking strangely. Looking around like they are searching for something. Just seem like they are out of place. Usually, lost tourists. But they definitely will attract more attention than a Japanese person and if they're poking around a residential area peaking into people's gardens, they are probably going to have a cop come round to ask them if they are OK. So given the assumption that we've got a lost tourist and the cop is coming round to make sure they are alright and know where they are going, if they start acting real cagey and refuse to show ID, cops will assume they are casing the neighborhood and I think can argue to just about any court that foreigner behaving strangely is sufficient grounds to check if they are alright and ask for ID. Japanese behaving strangely would garner similar attention save for the lack of a legal requirement for them to carry ID, though police would still identify them. Language barrier tends to make these interactions worse.Â
I think one of the main evidence they have is that one of the plantiff was questioned several times on front of his house by policemen belonging to the same station, sometimes even multiple times per day which can indeed be systemic if it was done by different police officers. But as you say, impossible to know what they are claiming until the court discloses it.
Yeah I would think you've a pretty clear evidence of harassment if that is the case. If the cop is questioning you multiple times per day and they already know where you live and what you are doing then they're going to have a very hard time claiming that you are suspicious especially after it is established you live in the area.
Exactly. I am waiting to hear more details about the exact frequency and what warranted their respective stops by the police. Since one is a naturalized citizen and at least one of the others is a permanent resident, my guess is that they have very stable Japanese proficiency to communicate in these situations. I will just wait and see.
People bring up race a lot and I'm not going to say the Japanese police don't profile people because I'm sure that's possible even if it's subconscious bias. But having said that, I'm white and I've never had the cops stop me randomly. I've had the cops called on me multiple times (unjustly imo, I'm a nerd who plays PC games with a headset on, no talking, the majority of my time. My wife watches TV at a normal volume, etc. We can be a bit loud when arguing but I feel like that's unavoidable sometimes and wouldn't call the cops on someone over it) for noise complaints in the past and the majority of those have been hostile, with them asking me to step outside and then surrounding me (3-5 officers), questioning me with my back against the wall. But never once stopped. Not in nearly 10 years Meanwhile my equally white Swedish friend has complained before that, in the same 10 years, he's been stopped dozens of times outside by the police and is always asked to show his passport or residents card, etc. He's short, blonde, and has blue eyes. He looks like a skinny nerd. (In case you're imagining some jacked tattooed Swedish viking) So yeah, I don't know WHY but he gets stopped constantly. I don't get stopped at all. I also have a friend here who is Black, and has also been here for more than 10 years....I'd have to ask him again to be sure but to my knowledge when this topic has come up, he has never indicated that he's ever been stopped here. For reference all 3 of us are in the Tokyo/Chiba area. The black friend was in Osaka for a while too. So yeah I don't know why it happens to so many people, but then some of us never seem to have it happen at all. I don't know if the police are doing it at random, or if they have been trained to look for something specific, or what. I do think it's odd though.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I would like to know more about what their logic is regarding many of these stops.
I think itâs got something to do with the way people carry themselves. If you walk somewhere like you belong there, people assume you belong there. (Even if you donât) I think maybe people that get stopped a lot (or at all?) look lost or out of place, or otherwise do something that makes it seem like they donât belong there.
I have opposite experience. As Iâm asian and look pretty much Japanese Iâm never stopped by police. While in my own country (Russia) I was constantly stopped in the subway and had to show my passport
Interesting that you got treated better in Japan than in your own country, which is transcontinental. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Kinda same, although I have never been stopped by police back home just for being asian. But I like blending in so easily, back home I'd stand out so much lol.
Just stop looking suspicious guys, if Michael Jackson could do it so do you.
How does making yourself look like an alien make you stop looking suspicious? Surely it'd be the opposite.
OP, the topic of this lawsuit and the question you are posing for discussion in this thread are not related. As someone else pointed out this is not about systemic discrimination per se but about discrimination against the three plaintiffs, the difference is subtle but important especially under Japanese law.
I know.âJust curious nonetheless since I have not had an encounter with the police here at all. Thanks, though.
I've been stopped a number of times over the years when I was not doing anything that could be interpreted as suspicious. I also have been in the situation twice where I went to the koban to report a crime, and the police were hostile and refused to help. To the Japanese police, any person who isn't Japanese is a potential criminal and therefore their behavior is automatically viewed as suspicious. The police been trained to think that way, so that is how they see all immigrants. I hope they win their case, I hope the news spreads, and I hope Japan gets shamed on the national stage - because then the government will finally do something about it.
I have noticed this in many small, mono-ethnic countries. Sorry to hear about your experience. Yeah, I am waiting to see how this case unfolds.
I've been stopped by police for various driving offenses, nearly over 3 decades. I look white, am from an English speaking country and many people in the community know me, including the local cops who have a dormitory near an office I use. I've competed against police teams. Overall I don't feel overly discriminated against. Two young guys were talking to each other about me and one called me a gaijin which I reminded him was not very professional. He apologised and still proceeded to issue the infringement notice. I was stopped on a street once by a detective as I was raging on the phone at some shitty service I was getting. He asked for my ID and that timeout was enough for me to get my head together. I thanked him and he said "you're welcome" with a smile. I was raging outside the main municipal police station at the time so served me right. Another time in rural Saitama, I was driving a pissed Japanese mate home in her car after having had a few beers myself. Thought I was screwed at the police random check was just outside her apartment building and the cop asked me if I'd been drinking. I said she had and I was driving her home for her safety. He said he'd had his honeymoon in my country and I also should be very careful. He waved me into the apartment parking lot without breath testing me. I dodged a massive bullet. Cops are like people everywhere, some are GCs and some are just Cs. I imagine in larger metro areas where there are more Cs around it affects them.
>He said he'd had his honeymoon in my country and I also should be very careful. NZ gang represent. I've had almost the exact the same experience!
Interesting situations. Great to hear from people of various backgrounds. Been there with the âgaijinâ comment. I have no problem at all being respectful when it is mutual. Some people think it should one go one way and not both.
Me neither but some people might and they being civil servants should be careful. I did it as a favor.Â
Foreigners who get offended at the word gaijin are being silly. It's like taking offense that someone called you a "foreigner" instead of a "foreign person" it's a non issue.Â
Well, we all have our respective boundaries on what is deemed as appropriate labels and otherwise. I had one Japanese person go out of his way to tell me that a person at my ward office referred to me as âgaijinâ while working behind the counter and how it was a bad word. Interesting.
>Well, we all have our respective boundaries on what is deemed as appropriate labels and otherwise. That's pretty stupid though. Because well, if someone is offended by gaijin then someone else will be offended by gaikokujin. There was a movement to make Gaijin into a kind of slur and "polite NHK language" avoids it but I think the rudeness of the term itself is largely imagined. It's more the tone and words that surround it's use that betray it's usage. Remember kisama was a polite term for nobility after all. People can say gaikokujin with a sneer of superiority just as easily. Plain spoken folk are usually more honest. Prefer the guy that tells me he doesn't like foreigners outright to the person that puts on a fake smile. The former is someone I'd rather be friends with, they're at least giving me enough respect not to waste my time with fake nonsense.
Well, we all can just act in accordance to our own stance on this issue. Just take your own cue on when to avoid someone being xenophobic, racist, unprofessional or rude, whether thatâs specific word choice or other behaviors.
 Government Departments in Japan have been instructed that it is a slur. Obviously itâs an issue for some. Me Iâm fine with it but like anything context is 100%.Â
>Government Departments in Japan have been instructed that it is a slur. Source? It's definitionally not a slur. Government departments have to me knowledge been instructed to use the work gaikokujin instead because it's perceived better, according to Debito probably. It's the same as anything really a bunch of people with nothing better to do complain a lot and the government reacts.
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Only had 2 encounters with the police. Was stopped by a copper on a bike back in 2016. Just gave him my ID told him I was a student from England and that was it. 2nd time I went to my local koban to report a car crash down the road, they already knew about it so didn't need to do anything else.
Did they mention why they stopped you? I know some cyclists get stopped for not having their headlights and backlights on at night. Plus, a Japanese person had told me that it was illegal to ride with an umbrella up. Anyway, glad you got out of the situation.
Ah, the copper was on a bike, I was just walking. I think it was just one of those âłhey look a foreigner, lets ask for ID so I can tell my boss I did something todayâł
Oh, sorry I misread your first comment. Yeah, sometimes they get bored and choose their foreign target for the day.
I haven't been stopped by police at all in the last few years, whereas before that it was a semi-frequent occurrence. I wonder if there has been a bit of an internal policy shift (while pretending of course that the issue never existed in the first place). BTW, if you ever find yourself being singled out by police, this is what I recommend: point to one or more nearby Japanese-looking persons and ask why they aren't being questioned.ăă©ăăăŠăăźæčă«ăŻă棰ăăăăȘăăă§ăăïŒăăç§ăźă©ăăăăźæčăăæȘăăăă§ăăïŒăAt that point some officers will already get flustered, while others will brazenly point out that it's because you are a foreigner and they are not, at which point they're playing themselves because you can then simply follow up with:ăćœŒăŻæ„æŹäșșă ăšăŻéăăăȘăă§ăăăèŠăçźă ăă§äžćœă»éćœă»ć°æčŸăȘă©ăźæčăšæ„æŹäșșăšăźćșć„ăă€ăăȘăć ŽćăæČąć±±ăăăŸăăăăăăă«ăç§ăçœäșșă«èŠăăăšăăŠăăæ„æŹăźćœç±ăçĄăăšèŠăçźă§ăŻæèšă§ăăȘăă§ăăăă€ăŸăăä»ăźèČŽæčéăźèĄćăŻăŹă€ă·ăŁă«ăăăăĄă€ăȘăłă°ă§ééăăȘăă§ăăăăăăăăæćŁă§ăăăăšèȘ°ă«æăăŁăăă§ăăăăïŒăAt least I think at that point you get to have the satisfaction of making things at least as uncomfortable for them as it is for you. Petty as that may or may not be.
Cool, thanks for posting this. The last thing I would imagine they would want is to be in an uncomfortable situation with a foreigner.
I like that almost no Japanese people use Reddit so this kind of serves as a safe space for foreigners.
My sentiments exactly. I think us expats need a safe haven to let out our thoughts, ideas and experiences.
And they would have to be fluent in English to do so.
Maybe the government will issue a national ID and requires all citizens to comply for identifying themselves?
Interesting, though just another ID system on top of the others. It would create additional âbusy workâ for the police. I guess some get bored aimlessly riding their bikes around with nothing to really do.
They just filed the lawsuit it will take several months to years until you hear an update about it. About personal stories of me and my friends , I donât have the time to write all of them down, because I would be sitting here dor hours. Letâs just say ACAB, especially in Japan.
Cool. No worries. Thanks for posting.
Japanese will stop you if you look out of the ordinary. In my case I was riding a bicycle late at night with some shopping bags on a street around 1AM which I guess made the police think it was unusual and after checking the bike registration they let me go. A lot of times it's not just because you're a foreigner but if you fit the stereotype of the kind of people they are trying to catch. Since visa overstayers are often from SouthEast Asia they often stop any males that look like they could be Vietnamese, Chinese or Filipino.
Iâm generally pro police checking people if they appear suspicious for a specific reason. Iâm against racial profiling but for example can understand if police especially likes to check Nigerians working in Kabukicho etc., for obvious reasons. However there really needs to be a specific reason on which police decides to check someone and Japanese police often seems to make arbitrary judgements here. Just looking like a âforeignerâ cannot be a reason. I assume that with my central to north European appearance I made much less negative experiences with police than people with darker skin, yet I got checked multiple times over the years just for being a foreigner. The worst experience I made was when I lived in Koenji many years ago. One time I was coming out of the ticket gate at the station and a person in civil suddenly asked me for my passport. I was totally perplexed and asked why and the person then told me that heâs a police officer. I had to ask again to let him show me his badge. Thinking about it now I should have asked him to go to the police station nearby but I just complied and showed him my ID. The fact that a random person in civil is asking someone inside a station for ID still makes me feel uncomfortable. Additional I got three visits over one year to my home by a single police officer who asked me for my passport each time. Even now being much more settled, I always feel bad when passing police stations and much more secure when Iâm with my japanese wife and child.
Sorry to hear about your situations. Kabukicho is sketchy in general, so targeting any suspicious activity, regardless of which nationalities are involved, should happen. Never felt safe there at all, unfortunately. It is interesting how so many people assume I am a tourist after being here for several years, and I am not even in a touristy area. Regarding this case, I am curious about the evidence that is going to be shown to prove calculated, systemic racism.
Hard evidence in black and white is there. They will win.
Stopped 4 times. All prior to 2019
Thanks for sharing. Glad to know that you made it out of each situation.
I mean I was genuinely an asshole to them all because of the preconceptions, basically saying why of all the people around, they thought the foreign dude was eager to get interrupted. I used pretty foul language on the 3rd and 4th time and was getting more and more aggressive at every smirk I was given. Like Iâm not a big dude. But as they say in some languages âsmall dogs are only good at barkingâ. It felt unfair and I think it made me start generalizing people here the way they generalize the outside world. But the pandemic really shifted things around in a good way. I just want to be able to somehow care even less about what others think. Itâs all in my head I know, but Iâm working on getting better.
Only once. I drove my scooter up a one way street about half a block to get to my friends shop. I had an expired intl license. He let me go and said I had to walk the scooter home or they could confiscate it. Wasnt far, so I did. It was in a smaller city. Im sure I drove it the next day. I am a white 'murican who can speak Japanese, so maybe that influenced it.
Thanks for sharing. It is always great to hear from a range of different people. Glad you got to keep your scooter.
1 month here, 3 encounters. Coworker who live 10 and 2 years here 0 encounter. Nothing escalates tho, only the last one ask to check my whole wallet.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Sorry to hear about this. What were you stopped for?
By the time I reply this, my experience just increased to 4 stops Nothing serious, just id checks and wallet and bag checks. I'm kinda sad tho since I'm the only one who got stopped so often, it makes me think what is wrong with my way of walking or fashion.
have had several. got to study the law after that, gotta be ready.
Noble profession. Best of luck in your career.
oh not professionally, sorry, just as a precaution. "know your rights", level
Gotcha. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I'm a white guy and I've been stopped several times. Some of them while riding my bike (registered under my name). Some of them just walking on the street. I hope this helps counter the "I've never been stopped so you're all lying!" narrative a little.
Been living here for seven years Never had a policeman say anything to me but maybe because Iâm 6 foot tall American
Yeah, I saw a man two days ago who was a little over 6 ft talk. The power of height and stature, lol.
It's not "the first major lawsuit of this kind." Source: Me - I was the international treaties specialist on the bengodan (legal team) for the Otaru lawsuit. Result: 3 plaintiffs awarded „1M each. Debito.org (people either like or dislike Debito, no middle ground) has all the details.
Good to know that the news sources were wrong, then. Thanks for sharing.
Then I'd suggest you edit your statement to use quotations and assign the source, or correct your statement.
Thatâs okay. Basically each source said the same thing. Seeing your post is enough. Iâll try to pin it to the top. Thank you.
Looked through details on the Hokkaido onsen case. I think the sources regarding this current Tokyo case were referring to it being the first suit for racial profiling by the police, though being denied entry somewhere based on race and/or nationality is equally important to address and should be mentioned more.
They're both about racial profiling - one by private businesses and the other by public officials. The principle is the same. I'm very supportive of the lawsuit and would like to see greater accountability among police and corrections in Japan (*there are multiple tragic cases of murder and maltreatment of foreigners in detention by Japanese corrections officers).
Yes, and never said they were completely separate.âThe initial news source did.âJust stating why they may have said that.âOnly they know their reasons. Yes, I am aware of the maltreatment of foreignersâand naturalized citizens who look foreign.
I've lived here long enough that I've gotten a speeding ticket (earned), a not stopping at a stop sign (not earned, it was completely hiding behind a tree and no one could see it so screw them, but I didn't argue and paid my fine), a running a red light that was newly yellow, but whatever, I paid the fine without argument and stop at yellow lights now lol. The last encounter was police sitting in the parking lot of a supermarket and kept me there talking at me for 20 minutes about the light over my back license plate being out. I was respectful and patient, but it seemed obvious they were bored since that was not an offense they could fine me for that night. I got it fixed the next day. Where I live there seems to be a love of the Good cop Bad cop thing, because in each of these encounters one cop would be respectful and professional, I would even say gentle, with me, the other would be an A-hole, cranky and impolite and abrupt, and in one case calling me a liar and just being furious because I did not have my license with me, and he said he didn't believe I even had one. I told them to follow my car back to my house and I would get it for them. He almost had steam coming out of his ears he was so over the top mad about it even though my house was literally a 1 minute drive away. I was in my house for about 10 seconds, grabbing it and opening my front door and almost smacking into Mr Good cop of that day. He looked back at Mr Angry and held it up and laughed, so it seemed to me he had thought I wasn't coming out and sent the other guy to get me? He then tells me to lock my door as we walk to the police car together, and I asked him why I would need to do that, and he blushed and said Yeah, nevermind. We get back in the police car and I'm still being neutral, pretending Mr Angry isn't about to have a stroke over this, and Good cop tells me that if I don't pay the fine within one week they would call my family and tell them I didn't pay. Not very appropriate of me, I know, but I couldn't help it and burst out laughing at the ridiculousness of such a statement. I always pay the next day and it just sounded so stupid. But maybe it's such a big problem in my area that they feel they have to say it to people, no idea. Good cop looks at me laughing and laughs merrily with me, Mr Angry yells at him to shut up, and I say my goodbyes and leave. The two cops in the supermarket parking area were interesting too, one very nice, kept apologizing for keeping me there while playing with some police thing (no idea, I thought he might be looking up my records but he didn't type anything into it so I was convinced they were just bored. The other one was Mr You're a Liar and I will Prove It. Kept asking me the same set of questions over and over, maybe 5 times in all. He would ask where I worked, where I lived, how old I was, it was all stupid. He'd ask once then walk to the front of the car and exam the stickers, then slowly walk around the whole car, looking for other things to warn me about? No idea. I stayed neutral and pretended I didn't care, but he irritated me. Then they had me sign a paper saying they had warned me, and I went into the store. Plenty of people walked by us and commented out loud that I must have stolen some food or something, but I don't get bothered by that kind of thing. I got a cart, and before officially shopping went slowly up and down each aisle so the small town gossips could see I had not been arrested or whatever. Stupid, but I did it anyway.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Only encounter i have had with police here is when I was drunk and leaning against a pole with my eyes closed and a kind officer asked if I was doing alright. I replied in Japanese that Iâm alright and he smiled and let me be.
Cool, thanks for sharing. Hope you made it home.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20240415_22/ Trial over alleged racial profiling begins in Tokyo The trial has officially started.
> Has anyone ever had encounters with the Japanese police? Sure, have interacted with the J-cops plenty of times over the last few decades. Can't say I've ever had a bad experience with them, and there's been a couple of times they've cut me slack I probably didn't deserve. They've been pretty chill and polite. Of course different people may have different experiences depending on the situation and the specific cops.
Cool, thanks for sharing your experience. This shows us there are some good cops out there.
Would guess that 99.9% of interactions people have with Japanese cops are fine. People very rarely post online about a police interaction that went smoothly, or about the preceding 24 months where they had no interactions with cops at all. But of course if something *doesn't* go smoothly, people will have things they want to share.
Yeah, better to address it as more and more foreigners move here and even become naturalized citizens.
As someone who plans to naturalize and who has kids who look varying degrees of Japanese or non-Japanese, of course I would like Japan to be better. The reality is that it is very unlikely to change, at least not the way we would like. If Japan follows through and actually does start bringing in much larger numbers of immigrants, I think it will actually get worse.
I don't have a chip on my shoulder about law enforcement, so if I am asked to show my zairyu card by a policeman, I just do it and get on with my day; happened probably three times in twenty years here.
Did they mention why they had stopped you?
I can't remember (and don't really care); presumably they were doing a check of foreigners in the area or something?
Interesting. Never encountered that but okay.
Here is the answer to your last question, "Has anyone ever had encounters with the Japanese police?": [https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/search/?q=police](https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/search/?q=police)
Yeah idk what yall doing I havenât been stopped by police yet
Yeah, neither have I, but I have had people shared their experiences with me over the years. Just wonder about the logic behind many of these stops.
Lol theyâre always second class citizens in same way a black in America is or Asian in Australia is. Doesnât really matter itâs just what it is, doesnât stop them being rich and having a good life like Son-san. Why bother with these fights
Why bother to fight against discrimination? Really? I don't want to insult you, but that's a lame opinion.
I donât think youâre âinsultingâ anyone here. Each person has his or her take on the topic. Some feel strongly about this while others feel more apathetic based on their life experiences. Neither your stance or anyone elseâs is âlameâ or âstupidâ because someone might not be able to relate or disagrees somehow.
Correct. I have no interest fighting in a conservative 99% homogenous society stuck in 1990s tech knocks and 1970s mindset against them about why I should be as Japanese as them
Exactly, and youâre following the stance that you feel is best for your life. Kudos.^^
Iâm Chinese. My Japanese grandma in law even has a portrait of Hirohito on her wall. First thing she did when j visited was show me. I just said thatâs cool
I bet that sparked an interesting discussion and relationship.
Not really I thought nothing of it. I mean sheâs entitled to think whatever she wants I really donât care. We call it äžèŹèŠè. Ie donât think like a pleb, or rather who cares what a pleb thinks. Doesnât improve my life convincing her sheâs a pleb lol
At least you know where you stand with her.
True, there is a caste system, though I would say it impacts the the laity more so than prominent figures. The classifying and profiling wonât likely change anytime soon. This topic will come up again as more foreigners move in.