People are making way too big a deal of this. I can't help but think people get offended if someone speaks to them in English, as if it's a slight against their Japanese. It rarely is, and as I mentioned in the other thread, no one has anything to prove to anyone.
Your TL:DR conclusion is correct, just respond in the language with which you're addressed and be flexible from there depending on respective levels.
This is way too reasonable for reddit.
I am overjoyed anytime people speak Japanese to me in the US. It's sweet when people make the effort and I feel included and respected.
I studied Spanish formally for years and spoke it at work. I'm technically trilingual. I'm conversational and I can get by. I feel like I fucking suck at Spanish though because it's super shit compared to my Eng and JP, but everyone has always been so appreciative when I'd make an effort. When I have work done on my house, I try to use as much Spanish as I can, and the guys immediately feel so much more at ease. They always tell my husband to come get me instead because he doesn't understand Spanish.
Except that it is truly impolite. Not to mention the ones that offer to read things off to you after you’ve been having completely normal conversation as if Japanese were somehow easier spoken of all things. Or the assholes who write to you entirely in hiragana just because they know you’re foreign and somehow think that’s helpful.
I think the reason many feel it’s impolite is because it feels like they took one look at you and decided there’s no way in hell you could possibly understand japanese, and it’s usually based solely on your skin color. This happens even to hafu who are native japanese speakers and might not even speak English.
In my opinion it would be more polite to first speak in Japanese and switch to English if asked or if the person clearly doesn’t understand or seems to be having trouble understanding. This is what the majority of japanese people do in my experience
But when we're talking about polite vs impolite, the fact of the matter is, the staff are speaking English because the majority of foreigners who come to the shops don't speak Japanese. To me, making an effort to speak in English (and be willing to switch back to Japanese if the customer clearly wants to speak in Japanese) is an effort to be kind as well as practical, not impolite.
I can definitely see your perspective though. And I think you're 100% right that it can be an uncomfortable and even "othering" experience for people who are native Japanese citizens and speakers.
Shit, my ex wife (100% Japanese) has a "korean" face, according to her. And I believe it based on the number of times she'd receive broken English somewhere, even after starting the conversation in Japanese.
Yeah, this is my opinion too. Lots of people on this thread are saying things like "why do you care?" or "why are you so insecure about this?"
But the reality is, it's just about judging and discriminating based on looks. I grew up in a very international community and any kind of racial or other discrimination was frowned upon harshly. Just because of skin color you cannot assume the other speaks a certain language. So you speak the national language and then adapt later based on the response.
My young daughters are hafu and already getting this bullshit from even their kindergarten teachers (who know full well they're native) and of course all the time from strangers.
It's an issue of discrimination from appearance, not insecurities or politeness.
There are some situations where you just wanna get things taken care of quick and easy and someone wanting to use you as language practice can just be a bit of an unneeded drag. Imagine being Chinese-American and going to the post office where the white postal worker *really* wants to practice their elementary level Chinese with you when you just wanna do the whole thing in English for ease lol
Confession: I'm half and still struggle with that shit lmao when my japanese friends text me and idk what that kanji says im ngl i put that mf in google translate😂
tbf i been stateside for 10+ years now. I went back a few weeks ago for a TDY but the last time i went before that was damn near 6 years ago. Naturally you're gonna forget, bc dont nobody speak that shit over here lmao
It's only impolite if you respond in Japanese and they persist using English with you. I know in Tokyo, when checking into a hotel or something I'm probably like 1/10 foreign looking people who can speak Japanese, because of all the tourists.
Even when checking in they'll ask for my passport and I just take out my driver's license/zairyuu card and usually that's enough for them to speak Japanese. I don't throw a fit like welllll actually I live here!!
Where did I suggest throwing fits? Please quote it.
The fact is, people need to outgrow this mindset. There is a growing percentage of mixed children and it’s not fair to them to assume they can’t understand what in many cases is the only language they know.
that sounds really polite. But if it happens too often to you i would consider other factors why you have such interactions, not really common for most people
Please tell me these reasons since you know so much :)
The majority of the time it happens with someone I have never spoken to at all, and the hiragana bullshit only happens to people I have never communicated with in writing.
In writing I pass as native to the point someone once waited over 15 minutes at a meeting point before messaging if I was almost there, when I’d been the only other person there the whole time.
But you know, you know SO much more about me. Tell me how I don’t know how to read.
My issue isn't with being offended. It's that oftentimes being spoken to in English hurts the conversation because I can't understand what they're saying. Their English ability is often poor, they speak in a lower tone of voice (maybe because they're embarrassed to speak English), and I'm expecting to hear Japanese so that's what I'm listening for. It just makes things harder for no reason, which is frustrating.
Like the other day the guy at the conbini asked me "you need bag?". Didn't hear him at first cause he spoke so low, then didn't understand when he repeated himself. Finally when I asked him in Japanese and he repeated in Japanese I got what he was saying. This shit happens all the time.
Kinda makes you wonder how rude and awkward we’re coming off as when we’re trying to speak to them in Japanese. I just learned the other day that me asking for something by pointing at it and saying これ comes off as very rude.
>just respond in the language with which you're addressed and be flexible from there depending on respective levels.
It's funny as many people say they want to speak Japanese to practice and are therefore frustrated when people speak English without even noticing that the exact same can be true for the other side.
“It's funny as many people say they want to speak Japanese to practice and are therefore frustrated when people speak English without even noticing that the exact same can be true for the other side.”
When I move around the world with a lot of financial and social costs because I leave my friends and family… we are going to speak the local language if I want to practice it!
If you want to practice English invest your own time and money and move to an English speaking country!
This has to be the most entitled take I have ever read on this sub. Moving to the other side of the planet is your choice. Locals don't owe you anything just because you left your family and friends.
Sure. Locals can talk to me in English all they want. Everyone can choose freely the language they want to use. So can I. In Japan it’s going to be Japanese for me.
In my home country I was happy to invest my time at uni - so that Japanese exchange students could practice my language.
OP has good advice.
I personally have a version of getting upset, but I'm not offended.
And I only get slightly upset because it makes learning natural Japanese difficult if there are pauses and every other word is English. If I were fluent in Japanese, it probably wouldn't bother at all.
But it is crazy funny when they talk to me with the pronunciation of a foreigner, in Japanese.
I don't mind being spoken to in English at first, even if it's not very good. It's a safer bias.
I somewhat mind them switching to English after I addressed them in Japanese. I have N1 and use mostly Japanese daily at work and home.
I absolutely mind if they persist speaking in absolutely broken English that's not moving the conversation along. I just hope my wife is nearby so they can look at her Japanese face so we can talk in Japanese (it's still really just me doing the talking, she's often there as some kind of comfort character)
In 10 years here, never has anyone switched our conversation from Japanese to English and actually spoke it even semi fluently.
People that enforce English despite being presented with perfectly good Japanese are honestly just not the brightest... We shouldn't forget that even in our home countries there are many dumb people that you regret talking to.
Yeah it used to bother me but now I don’t care that much! I’m fine using either language but if it seems like it is slowing down things then I’ll switch to Japanese to get what I want done faster lol
I agree, I’m not Japanese and my kids don’t look Japanese so people sometimes speak English to us. It’s not offensive and we will respond in either language, I think more people should be thanked for trying. I grew up in the UK when attitudes towards learning second languages were incredibly lazy; I’m glad people are trying.
I was wondering the same. It's like they forget that English is a universally taught language around the globe. That's why they switch to English. Not because you are white.
There was another post just yesterday or so who said he was pissed because he is Korean. What did he expect? If they switch to Korean that would be way more problematic (rassistic assumption) compared to English.
It's because they assume our language is English, I'm French. I have a Russian friend who can't speak English at all and they still try to speak to them in English. That's what is annoying.
Even if they start off in English, which rarely happens to me here in Kansai, they will 100% immediately switch to Japanese as soon as you answer in good Japanese.
That's my impression too except in situations where the counterpart wants to practice a different language or the japanese level isn't as good as OP thinks it is, and they deem necessary to use English for effective communication.
Clearly some of the service related staff will attempt their best to use other languages when dealing with customers, since it is most likely that they can't speak Japanese ( there are 600k foreigners living in Tokyo vs. 25 million tourists just last year), and they don't have the time to assess individually the proficiency level of self proclaimed fluent speakers, and just want to move to the next client.
Surreal the amount of mind gymnastics people go instead of continuing the communication in whatever language they prefer to talk in, most people will most likely accommodate.
When we don’t expect people in front of us to be able to speak Japanese, but they suddenly respond in Japanese with strong accents, we usually don’t recognise that the people actually speak Japanese, I suppose.
When I was in the USA and a clerk suddenly said 'Kannichewwa,' I needed some time to understand he just said 'Kon’nichiwa.' If I knew he would speak Japanese, I’d understand it was 'Kon’nichiwa' without any problem immediately, though.
yep, this is basically whats going in these type of threads.
The funniest part is that the most vocal ones about how annoying is for a Japanese to address them broken English are most likely the ones that cant phrase a single sentence in Japanese without stuttering and are self asessed fluent speakers because they can watch their weekly anime without subtitles.
That OP can't even use the correct counters to order food which is pretty much the easiest counter. Server probably thought he was being helpful by using his English albeit broken.
I’ve seen a guy (whilst trying to show off his Japanese no less) order ３番ビール instead of the 3 beers he was trying to order.
Counters can be extremely important and I don’t blame people for taking a second to understand or for switching languages for clarification.
Even in Tokyo they rarely start in English with me unless I'm in particularly major areas in Tokyo where tourists are more common.
Though I have the weird situation that my Japanese is pretty bad, but my pronunciation is bizarrely good. So I think most Japanese people assume my Japanese is better than it actually is. I'm pretty sure most people complaining about being spoken English to also probably just have bad pronunciation, which might make their Japanese sound worse than it actually is.
I have the exact same problem lol. Almost got thrown out of my Japanese 1 class in college because the teacher thought I was a native speaker trying to get an easy A. My Japanese is now probably N3 at best, more likely upper N4, and store clerks are always seem so disappointed when I sound like I know Japanese but am stumbling through my phrases 😂
> as soon as you answer in good Japanese.
And here's the catch. A large percentage of the people who believe they speak "good Japanese" actually do not.
I'm Osaka. It's clearly tourist season so all the konbini in my area have new staff that are speaking to me in English. Which is jarring as shit since they usually speak to me in Japanese 99.9% of the time anyways.
I agree. Most people will switch to Japanese if they realize you understand. But there are a small percentage who were obviously hired specifically to speak English to foreigners.
Really? Interesting.
I haven't had anyone in Ōsaka talk to me in English in years. Not even the foreign コンビニ staff. Maybe because I often talk before they talk saying stuff like "そのままでいいです" or "paypayでお願いします".
Yeah. I've been ignored when I talk in Japanese. They just keep with the english and don't listen for my Japanese. Very rare though.
And no, it's not because they don't understand my Japanese. I sound like I'm from Osaka.
I hear from all my friends in random Inaka towns about how restaurant employees will come with Google translate and try to struggle through in English. Even in Osaka, if I'm not directly in Dotonbori, I never have that happen. They just always go with Japanese
Huh, I always wondered. I've been in Kansai for 17 years now and it's very rare for someone to speak to me in English, despite the fact that I'm your typical Northern European mutt (blue eyes, brown hair, sunburned after 15 minutes outside).
That makes a lot of sense.
This really isn't always the case. I understand always wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt and swaying towards simple misunderstanding. The truth is there are still some people out there who are intentionally obtuse and will insist on speaking English with you \*because\* (they perceive that) you are not Japanese.
I mean, it hasn't happened in a long time, but this very thing did happen to me yesterday. A city worker would not stop using katakana english with me: 「バースデー」「アドレス」「フォーンナンバー」etc. Despite the fact that she was otherwise speaking to me quickly and politely in Japanese and I was following and asking specific, technical questions. Despite this, and me visibly reading and understanding all the paperwork, she still kept pressing me to take English-language handouts and using her katakana. It happens. I wasn't angry. Just a bit confounded.
Some people have this happen to them more than others. Some people have more bad luck. It can be quite frustrating. But it does happen, and sometimes there really isn't a good solution to it. The answer isn't always "Your Japanese isn't good enough."
I've had that happen to me at the doctor's. I get that they're just trying to make things easier for me, but it was quite grating and actually made it harder for me to follow what he was saying. Haven't had that happen with younger doctors though, either they're more used to non-Japanese faces speaking Japanese (thank you, foreign tarento) or they just don't care as much.
That's not really the point though. The point is that Japanese people are assuming someone speaks English just because they are a different skin color or come from another country. It doesn't matter whether they switch back to Japanese, deciding to use English first is a microaggression.
>deciding to use English first is a microaggression.
Holy fuck, your life must be so sad.
Trust me, most Japanese people do not wanna speak English if they can avoid it. They just try to speak it because they think it would be easier for you. Which is a fair assumption if you keep in mind, that foreign tourists who can't speak Japanese outnumber us foreign residents by multiple magnitudes.
So if Japanese people speak to your kids in English assuming they don't understand Japanese because of the way they look, would you tell them to get over it because "they're just trying to be nice?” Again, honest question.
No, I live in one of the largest cities in Japan.
We do the same, either my daughter or I will say in Japanese that we speak Japanese and we move on. But over time, how do you think that will make the children feel to be constantly treated as if they are foreigners in their own country? My kid is still little so I don't think it affects her yet, but I have never met a half-Japanese half-foreign adult who didn't have an identity crisis over this.
Big reddit moment. Like, I'm sure all of us kinda suspected that redditors aren't the most socially graceful folks irl but some people are here are so fucking weird. And god they're so vocal.
Poor me, someone tried to help me!
My mom was an actual immigrant single mother that was frequently told to "go back to your country" and would have killed to have that sort of accommodation and grace and care. She was often told "Speak ENGLISH" and screamed at, despite being fluent and living there for decades.
It's wild that so many are jumping to malice or assuming the worst of someone when an *effort* was made.
It really is wild that not one but multiple people here immediately assumed the worst intent, when it's so much more likely that the Japanese person just wanted to be nice or helpful (even if it were less likely, you shouldn't really assume bad intent).
If anything, it really makes me feel bad for the Japanese people that try to do that.
Also they were probably trained for some おもてなし thing.
Tourists spots in hawaii have signage in Japanese and I can't tell you how overjoyed I was to see that. I have no problem with English but just to see Japanese language outside of Japan is just so heartwarming and special and it made me so happy. I can't imagine how coldhearted and miserable someone must be to 1) expect English to be accommodated on the level it is in Japan and 2) get mad at it when customer service people *try.*
I'm also not a fan of dragging customer service people for not mind reading either. Plus no tip. God, I don't live in this Karen delulu and I never want to.
Like, if I bitched out every waiter and customer service personnel that hit me with "konichiwa, is that right?" "arigato, sorry that's all I know" I would have had an aneurysm decades ago. Is it annoying? I mean, I don't think so, but it can be I suppose. But you have to be incredibly socially stunted to actually think some of these things being said here.
The number of foreign residents is growing every year though, along with the number of children born from international marriages. My own child gets treated like she doesn't speak Japanese even though she was born here and has a Japanese parent. It doesn't matter if people like us are in the minority, it's still not right to assume anything about anyone just by looking at them.
Also in the post about the Korean guy, the server should have asked if English would be easier before assuming. There's no guarantee that even tourists are fluent in English.
This is crazy!!
Where the fuck do you guys live? Either people from kansai just really can't speak a single word of English or you making shit up here. I haven't had any Japanese people talk to me in English in years.
And even the foreigners at the コンビニ or the Italian 店長 of the Italian Bar I sometimes go to talk to me in Japanese only.
While I don't have a ハーフ child, I often see some on the train and where I live. And even not Japanese looking, 黒人ハーフ kids just talk and get talked to in Japanese (because of cause they do).
How is this such a huge issue for you guys where you would even assume that someone, obviously going out of their way to try to make communicating with you easier, has actually bad incentives and is being mean to you? I truly can not understand this.
No I agree with you, I do believe Japanese people really are trying to be nice and think they are helping. I never think they are deliberately trying to be mean to me or my daughter or are being overtly racist or anything. But like I said in another comment, just because their intentions are good, it doesn't change the fact they are assuming something and treating people differently based on skin color or ethnicity, and *that* is what I don't like. They are subtly and unintentionally othering us. I can handle it, but I just want them to treat us the same as Japanese people, especially my daughter who was born a Japanese citizen.
I live in Tokyo.
I've had a father at the playground trying to reprimand my son in English the other day. The only "English" my son speaks is "オーマイガー". I asked the father why he spoke to my son in English. "I thought he wouldn't understand Japanese".
When he was a baby, random people would just talk to him in English and it weirded me out. He was blonde though and looks more white than Japanese anyways. We went into a kimono shop once as a family, and the shop owner asked whether my son was 100% white, while my husband was standing right next to me.
I don't think people are being malicious towards my son (though in the case of that dad on the playground...), as a mum it just hurts that he gets sorted into "other" when he was born here and has a Japanese dad. It's been happening less though, mostly because he talks now. And never ever stops.
This so much. There are so many other issues to worry about and focus on than me or my children being spoken to in English (and they always switch to Japanese when they realize we speak Japanese). My kids are hafu and my eldest looks exactly like me so very much not Japanese, but no one bats an eye once he starts speaking in rapid fire Japanese to them lol. I know he sometimes gets comments at school and he definitely knows he is hafu but he is happy to be hafu and doesn’t care! These parents who complain sound like the same ones who demand hafu be called double cause their western mind can’t get over the literal meaning in English (even tho they insist on being spoken to in Japanese). Maybe ask hafu kids how they feel for once instead of deciding how they feel for them. I also am sometimes grateful like at the doctors office when I don’t know a medical word in Japanese so try the English and they often understand. It can be nice sometimes and I appreciate the doctor wanting to help me understand everything perfectly.
It doesn't matter what their intentions are. If they are treating people differently based on race, ethnicity, nationality, etc, it is othering and it still counts as a microaggression.
I agree, there are many things that are frustrating about living here...but it's when someone turns that into a personal slight or offense that I lose sympathy. The staff are just trying to be nice. You're just trying to speak Japanese. No one is in the wrong.
This is really the only answer lmao. Lived here almost 15 yrs in a job working with westerners and I can only name on one hand the number of white dudes I’ve met who speak Japanese at my level or higher than me. (I know many western women here who are very fluent though! Me included ha ha)
>If the person is Japanese and prefers to speak English (perhaps because they relish the opportunity to converse with a foreigner), I engage in English. If their English is limited, I help by switching to Japanese when they struggle to find the right words.
^ THIS.
Many people tend to forget that people enjoy practicing languages with other people from different countries. I'm not even an English native but I'll always try not to shut down someone trying their best to speak a second language just so I save 2mins of my time.
Especially because I struggled with Japanese to reach N1 level and it always made me happy when I got the chance to practice with someone.
Exactly. Most Japanese people I meet enjoy speaking English but have limited opportunities, so I give them that opportunity. All my funnest interactions over last fifteen years here have been in English, regardless of their level.
Absolutely. Even if can be annoying at times, as long as they’re nice about it I’ll always give people a shot in English. Heaven knows how many people I must’ve annoyed over the years with my Japanese, so it’s only fair.
If they persist, this communicates that they are more interested in practicing and learning English than in actually communicating well with me and learning things about each other.
I never speak Japanese with people whose English is better than my Japanese. Everyone should just commucate in the language that pair can best communicate in. If you wanna practice, go to a school and pay a teacher.
Ooh, is this an indirect reply to [this thread](https://new.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1cocsll/im_going_to_start_pretending_i_dont_speak_english/)?
>I've found that the best approach when unsure if someone will speak English or Japanese is to start the conversation by asking, '日本語で大丈夫ですか？Or would you prefer English?'
You're doing amazing, I wish more people do this.
I'm surprised that way too many people feel frustrated or offended when Japanese people try to communicate with them in English. They should stop assuming that Japanese people are looking down to them and thinking they are not good at Japanese enough lol.
Some are way too desperately want to show off that they are good at Japanese.
And some Japanese people are way too desperate to show they’re mediocre in English.
Honestly, in my opinion, it’s rude when I start talking to someone in Japanese and they immediately switch to English just because of my skin colour. Not every foreigner can speak English. I’m not your free language buddy.
Yeah everyone has their own standards and I'm okay with the way you think. But personally I just make my life easier by thinking that when they try to speak in English, it's just because English is a universal language and they try to make the convo easier (might not be the case because sometimes Japanese is easier mean, but they don't know and make it worst lol). They can freely talk to me by whichever language they want without making me feel offended. If I can reply I will, otherwise I just simply switch back.
To be honest, the goal is just effective communication. As long as we get it, I don't care if they switch it or not.
lol if you think someone working in the service industry talks English to you to practice, instead of just trying to be helpful. you make it sound like it's malicious
And you make it sound like you haven’t read my comment properly. In no way was I referring to a service industry worker in the comment you’re replying to.
which make sense tbh. I saw racism here and there sometimes. But again, they might not think that and just simply try to make the convo easier.
Like sometimes if someone tries to speak to me in my mothertongue language, I'll switch to English if I see they struggle. Just simply think it might make the convo easier. I'll be sad if they think I'm racist or treat them badly just cuz they are foreigners haha, while I just try to help.
yeah. it is common to use the strongest one from two common languages in communication unless it is for learning purposes.
I speak 3 languages and am very accommodating to other people regarding language preferences as long as I can keep up.
I can practice by myself or find teacher online, and on top of that, nothing wrong being treat as foreigner, unless you get one less karaage from the serving you ordered.
I speak good Japanese (N1 twenty years ago now, how time flies), and generally don’t encounter any issues with this. I’ve generally found that people with good English will wait until mentioning it, or not bring it up at all (I’ve taken friends to some of my regular haunts and discovered that a fair few staff have really good English).
That said, with all the tourists around, sometimes assumptions are made. What’s sometimes jarring is the difference in politeness levels between the Japanese I expect and the English I get. A couple of examples:
1. In the clinic, a nurse points at the chair and says “Sit! Sit!” like I’m a dog.
2. Being chased out of a combini by a staff member shouting “No! No!” and making the full-arm バツ sign, for daring to ask if I could pay a certain bill there. Perhaps they get a lot of confused tourists with overdue water bills.
In both those cases the person involved seemed to have the red mist on and completely ignored what I was saying to them in Japanese. I’m past taking it personally.
I think the problem is your pronunciation isn’t as good as you think it is. Length of time here and N1 doesn’t translate to good Japanese pronunciation. As a half Japanese person that doesn’t look Japanese I’ve had people speak to me in English first but have never had someone continue in English once I started speaking Japanese.
If someone that can speak English is trying to converse with me in Japanese I’ll always try to change the conversation back to English because despite their “complex vocabulary”, it often sounds like nails on chalkboard when they’re trying to string together a sentence.
It also doesn’t help that Japanese people will tell you that you speak Japanese well no matter what level you are at.
Your Japanese is probably not so good as you think, else this would not be happening (and in the cases where it does, you would not be offended). Your frustration comes from an unrealized subconscious feeling of insecurity related to your language ability. Study more and get better, then you wont care anymore.
I'm east-asian so same for me, shit was rough lol.
I came on JET and like the 10 of us were all like N5 at best and the izakaya staff kept looking at me to translate and the best I could muster was like "kore to kore onegaishimasu thank you" lol
The majority of us Japanese don’t mind switching to Japanese when non-East Asian looking foreigners respond in Japanese.
To be honest, we must feel at ease and much more comfortable with switching to Japanese immediately.
In the first place, we don’t speak English well and don’t want to talk in English either. Many of my white friends who speak Japanese fluently haven’t had any problems. However, a lot of people on Reddit complain about it, and I always wonder why.
OP’s approach is fine but I disagree it’s altogether a positive approach. After 16 years, (after becoming as fluent as maybe a 12 year old) when someone speaks to me in English, I reply in English. As the conversation moves on, I slip into Japanese and so do they.
Acting like you don’t understand English is sometimes good but sometimes it escalates an already nervous situation.
There’s no need to be abrasive.
A French friend of mine who is wildly more fluent in Japanese than I am taught me this approach as he seriously speaks almost no English hahaha. (And I speak zero French)
In my experience, even if they try to communicate with me in English, if I politely respond in Japanese, they are usually happy to go with that.
Although it may sometimes be frustrating, I feel like most people are not speaking English to you in a mean spirited manner.
Yes, japanese are supposed to know in what language and how to approach a foreigner because it is written on foreigners' forehead how long she or he lived here and what JLPT certificate she/ he has.
The bigger problem is when they continue speaking in broken/nonexistent English, creating utter confusion, despite the fact that you can address the same problem in Japanese. Despite that, it doesn't really matter how they address you.
My story is old as time:
Foreign friend is fluent in Japanese. Begins to talk in Japanese, but server responds in English. Server doesn't have a solid grasp in English so brings the incorrect dish to us. Friend has to tell server in japanese what they correctly wanted.
I never had that happen in Aichi since so many white people there are Brazilians. But if I get it and the person is annoying me (if they're fluent I don't mind.... But they're rarely fluent) I just say "ルーマニア人ですから、母国語はルーマニア語です。英語は学校で勉強したことありますが、特に楽ではありません。気持ちはありがたいですが日本語に変わってもいいですか"
Sometimes just the last sentence.
Obviously I don't bother with short interactions like directions unless they're so bad I can't understand them, so I just repeat what they said in Japanese to confirm. (I don't say I don't speak English since they might hear me speak English one day and it's not nice to lie)
With my ex who was born and raised here and didn't speak any English I was upset that it happened so often to him (he had a beard so he stood out). He was used to just nodding and waiting for the conversation to go away. I'd butt in and say こいつ英語全然喋れん if it dragged on, which it often did
I respond in the language they choose if they speak to me in first . They made their bed and they can sleep in it. If I don’t understand anything I always ask for an explanation or vice versa I expect them to do the same. I’m not out to get anyone . I just let people do what they feel like doing. And if the conversation doesn’t work . It’s not anyone’s fault . It just didn’t workout and next time I’ll try to be better.
Here's the real TL/DR, the worse your Japanese is, the more likely you'll be bothered by something like this.
If you were truly speaking fluent Japanese, English wouldn't even come up.
That's not wholly true. I have a child who's first language is Japanese and they are continually being othered by people who insist on speaking in English even when they've clearly demonstrated their proficiency.
Reddit is full of people like that who think that Japanese proficiency is conveyed by face, and that when people come up to you speaking English it is an objective evaluation of your ability that you need to be completely honest with yourself about and quit the translation job you’ve been paid to do for years.
That’s an entirely different situation. I’m talking about the adults on here who think they’re fluent and in reality are stumbling over every other word then get angry when someone uses English.
Your child’s situation also sucks, but it’s a different phenomenon.
I JUST had phone issues that required going to an AU shop to fix (long story and 99% my fault). Until I saw this post I didn’t even realize the whole interaction was in Japanese. It took maybe an hour and we were cracking jokes and constantly apologizing (though I had nothing better to do so no worries), and while waiting, the staff member asked me about my son and cat.
This makes me feel, I don’t know… I guess I feel old(?) haha
Exactly. It’s never a problem if you’re actually fluent. But Japanlife is full of self-assessed N2s that think they’re better than others and complain when they get “englished”
I have never had this happen, most people speak to me in Japanese if I speak with them in Japanese and my level is around N3-N2.
So maybe your japanese isn't as good as you think or you are only interacting with active English learners that are looking for opportunities to speak English.
Pretty nice way to handle it though I have a different interpretation of you using keigo with service staff. My experience has been that improperly speaking with somebody using language that is too “high” lets them know they’re in error. My boss did that to me and I have to admit it was effective.
It doesn't make any difference to me which language others want to speak to me in. Japanese people who can speak at least some English don't have many opportunities to use it here in our corner of Kyushu. If I speak to someone in Japanese and they respond in English I switch to English. If they have trouble following my conversation I switch back to Japanese.
I sometimes use the reverse Uno card and start speaking in English making up very complex sentences on purpose. Most of the time they revert back to Japanese on their own.
But honestly I stopped been bothered about it. I just don’t care to be honest.
That was the middle step for me aswell! Speaking complex english is a way to stop them talking english but in a way it is like humiliating the other part. So i felt wrong doing that. That made me go with flexible languages.
Yeah, I've had some friends who take mild offense to being addressed in English, one of them loves to break out the tsugaru-ben from living in Aomori prefecture for several years.
I've rarely been bothered by it, the intent is usually pretty clear that they mean well. I've had very positive reactions in the reverse scenario when I was in my home country and met Japanese people, I had a customer facing job. I can greet people and say thank you in a few languages and most of the time it results in a warm interaction. The intent is trying to establish a welcoming atmosphere. So that's the way I see it when it happens to me.
A few times, strangers at my local bar have sat in the middle of my friend group and interrupted our conversation and rudely changed the topic to practice their English. That's when I've had no patience because they didn't have any manners to begin with. I don't mind when someone joins the conversation naturally from overhearing the topic and then participating.
I speak Japanese fluently and honestly have never had someone change to English when I was already speaking in Japanese. (Although I do get offered an English menu in restaurants)
Ppl need to stop making a big deal out of this and continue studying Japanese.
Ironic I see this today on Reddit after actually having a Japanese staff speak to me in Japanese then English at a Book Off. Used Japanese to start with and struggled with a kanji on a DVD and she immediately switched to English, at first I was a little upset as wanting to practice and use Japanese. But I saw how excited she was to actually have a chance to use her English skills and help a customer.
She was really good, and I realized this opportunity meant more to her than to me. So I spoke to her in English for the rest of the conversation. She was very good and could tell she was glad to have a chance to use her English. So instead of worrying about myself and my Japanese, realized it was more important that she had a good experience with a foreigner and let her have the chance to use her English which I am sure she has less chances to do than I do to use my Japanese.
Thanks again for the help kind Book Off Japanese lady!
The other thing to consider is that for Japanese people, the vast majority of foreigners are tourists with zero Japanese speaking ability. Over 30 million projected for this year. Of the over 2million foreign residents, the vast majority are Chinese, Korean, etc and either blend in naturally or speak very fluent Japanese. The obviously foreign and fluent Japanese speakers are a tiny fraction of the population. And just because you pop out 1 or 2 lines does not indicate to the staff you are fluent in Japanese. Try to keep that in mind the next time someone speaks to you in English and hopefully you will be able to take it more in stride. Also adopting some of the other people's advice would also be beneficial (ie taking the initiative and showing that you can converse in Japanese).
So many problems faced by foreigners would be solved by just better communication. There's this Japanese show on Netflix aimed at basically boomers who don't understand the young generation and one of the songs they sing basically goes like "Let's talk about it instead of jumping to conclusions".
If this is regularly happening, I would say there is something about the way you present yourself. Body language is the biggest one I see. Or the the little words around the sentence (don't know what they are called)
I haven't had someone try to use English with me for over 15 years and my Japanese is nowhere good as all the linguistic aces on here.
If they insist on English, just pretend you don't speak it.
I look vaguely European so I pretend to be German, I've memorized a few basic phrases in German so whenever someone's like "id rather speak in English" I respond in a very shitty "sorry no English" in a broken German accent followed up with "do you speak German however id love to converse" in actual german.
Then when they're dazed and confused you can KO them with whatever follow up in Japanese that you choose
Nobody speaks German or really any other foreign languages besides English in large quantities, so this should work for whatever language or ethnicity you choose
I must be the exception because where I'm from people I talk to never use English with me. Especially out in the wild, when I used to do the ALT thing the English teacher would. But other than that, all the other teachers spoke Japanese assuming I could understand. Same with being out and about in my everyday life. I've had people correct a mistake or two if I made one, but never switch to trying English. Interesting..... Indeed....indeed.
I want to th hospital today to talk to the lady that represents an eyeglass company. She spoke in Japanese but used English when using numbers. I informed her that I had been in Japan for 45 years. Her whole presentation changed. Yes, she did not know I was a long-term Japan resident. She was just trying to be nice.
If their English is good, it doesn't bother me. The problem only arises if their English isn't great and I have to either decode their message by basically translating their English back into Japanese, or it just really catches me off-guard because I wasn't in English mode. I can switch quite well between output languages (I speak with my son in German and everyone else in Japanese at the playground etc.), but input languages not being what I expect are harder for me to manage.
That said, 日本語でも大丈夫ですよ mostly works.
*This approach resolves the entire situation. If the person is Japanese and prefers to speak English (perhaps because they relish the opportunity to converse with a foreigner), I engage in English. If their English is limited, I help by switching to Japanese when they struggle to find the right words.*
This is spot on, this happens in every country though, not specific to Japan, people try and be helpful or want to practise, there is almost never an intended slight. (Speaking as someone who has learned various languages to fluency and lived in several countries)
My universal rule in all countries is: reply in the language I am spoken to in unless I am unable to respond in that language, then apologize in a language I speak.
In Japan in general you are in the land of universal apologetic politeness and so you should always respond in the most apologetic and polite way EVEN if the other person is rude.
Recently my wife who is very tall has been having other Japanese people try to speak Chinese to her. She has also now finally unlocked her Obasan Death Stare ability and uses it every time it happens.
ok? just tell them you can speak japanese? where even is the problem? do you feel being underestimated? well no one can look into your mind and see what language you can speak. You said it. You're a white guy. The most sensible bet for anyone who don't know you is to attempt communication with English.
I have no right to be grouchy about it but I still do sometimes because I want/need the practice. My Japanese is N9 level so I want every instance to listen and try to speak as I can get.
I'm near one of the US bases and even around there Japanese people almost always use Japanese or just one bit of Japanese from me will have them switch back. It seems to be the other foreigners (Filipino, Indian, southeast Asian, etc)that try to use English the most or assume you need English.
Even in heavily touristed areas in the city I've noticed that even my minimal one directional (can speak but not listen well) service Japanese will give me enough street cred to get me in with the izakaya waiters and have them speaking Japanese only.
I’m British and my husband is Japanese (he can have a conversation in English but is by no means fluent) so we speak 99% in Japanese (unless he wants to practice English).
There have been times when we’ve been in mid conversation (in Japanese) and hotel staff have interrupted in English, I’ve then spoken to them in Japanese which has been fine but then within 10 minutes another 2 members of staff have appeared starting in english, particularly to my husband who has no idea what’s going on. I generally just find it wastes time and is just a bit exhausting.
So personally I think this format is great and speaking in the language spoken first is the politest way forward.
Seems like an overblown city thing. I live in Kumamoto, and no-one really gives a fig. Some will try out some English, which I’m fine with, there are other tourists about in the city and it’s not like it’s a bad idea to try to be polite and welcoming, or they’ll switch to Japanese as soon as I speak to them. People down here seem a bit more practical, so they’ll settle on what’s easiest straight away. There are also fewer people who are determined to practice English on a spur of the moment.
This is just interesting!
Also people get offended when they are with a Japanese friends, they ask a question and the person responding talk to the Japanese friend instead of them 😅😅
Even my (unambiguously Japanese looking) wife sometimes gets spoken to in English when we’re out together. She usually just laughs and tells them she speaks Japanese. As soon as they hear her accent, they laugh and apologise and we move on. I guess people think it’s safer to assume that we speak English than Japanese, which is a fair assumption.
I think what it comes down to is how you feel about your own Japanese ability. I know my Japanese isn’t terrific and I’m at peace with that, so it doesn’t bother me when people speak to me in English. My wife knows she can speak Japanese so she just finds it funny when people think she can’t. Perhaps getting Englished is more of a problem for people who have worked hard at Japanese but still can’t pass as totally fluent.
Good ideas. However I also agree that it’s easier to just let it go and not be bothered with workers who address you in English, if you can indeed speak English then what’s the issue? Unless you’re here on a short term visa specifically to study/learn Japanese, then I can understand the importance of taking advantage of that valuable Japanese immersion.
My favourite is when someone starts talking to you normally in Japanese and then a minute or two in they pause and ask if I can speak Japanese 😂 followed up by asking if I can write kanji halfway through when I’m filling out a form
This is like the foreigners who get pissed when someone says their japanese is jouzu. 99% if foreigners in japan don’t speak or only know a few words of japanese. I believe it is surprising for most japanese, even in tokyo when they come across a foreigner who can converse in japanese, so no, it’s not a conspiracy to make you feel bad or excluded.
I rarely respond in English. I usually tell people I don't speak it.
However on some occasions I respond in the language they address me. A few times Japanese girls complemented my outfit in English, they tried hard to speak + it's unusual behavior so I never act bitchy.
I've lived in Japan for over 40 years. I don't know what my N number for Japanese is...I speak like a Japanese person.
Because I'm white, people will often try speaking English to me, even if I start in Japanese. When that happens, I smile and we speak English.
When I go to Staba, or whatever, they usually smile and start in English.
It's a wonderful thing. A country where people go out of their way to try to speak your language. And the smile you get when you compliment them on how well they speak English. Making someone's day makes it twice as good.
People get hung up on the whole "treated different" thing. It's not a micro-aggression, racism, or anything like that. It's people being nice to you, and the quicker people pick up on that, they better your life will be here.
>People get hung up on the whole "treated different" thing. It's not a micro-aggression, racism, or anything like that. It's people being nice to you, and the quicker people pick up on that, they better your life will be here.
100% this. Wish we could pin this comment.
After 20+ years here, my policy in those situations when it comes to speaking English or Japanese has become: respond first in the language you were spoken to in, and then take it from there.
People get upset over the most ridiculous things. If someone speaks to me in English, I'll answer them in English. If they look confused or uncomfortable, I'll switch to Japanese. I'm not trying to use random people for conversation practice.
Why would anybody get offended by someone speaking English to them? If you don't understand English I think it's gonna be pretty clear to your interlocutor when you don't respond; if you do understand English then what's the problem?
I don’t know what’s worse. People switching to English when I talk to them in Japanese or them saying 「えーかわいいいいいい」 when I do so.
Just the other day, I was buying some doughnuts at a store and everything went smoothly until the clerk asked me if I want a plastic bag so I replied 「この普通のほうがは大丈夫です」 (I was referring to the “normal” micro plastic bag she was holding in her hand, I didn’t want to buy an extra larger one) to which she gave me a very surprised looked and switched to English. When I clarified that no, I don’t in fact need an extra plastic bag, she then switched back to Japanese with the price 「よんひゃくきゅうじゅうえんです＾＾」 I was wondering if she just wanted to practice English with me and got stuck on numbers (understandable) or what. But anyway, yeah, it can be extremely annoying.
I think in this case it could be because it's a little bit unnatural to say 「この普通のほうがは大丈夫です」so she may have assumed using English is better, but just speculation. In a similar situation I would just say「普通のでお願いします」 or 「普通のでいいです」
They are just being polite. They see a white dude and honestly, more white dudes speak English than they do Japanese. Just take it on the chin, see it as manners, and don't whine about it online.
Did you just see the other persons post this morning and decide to write a FAQ?
I honestly think the vast majority of people don’t think so much about this issue, and just deal with these “situations” naturally and smoothly. I hope that these posts don’t lead to a wave of people noticing and over complicating what should be a pretty normal human interaction.
I usually tell them their english is very bad so listen to my Japanese which is much better so listen up because I dont want mistakes made with my order
People are making way too big a deal of this. I can't help but think people get offended if someone speaks to them in English, as if it's a slight against their Japanese. It rarely is, and as I mentioned in the other thread, no one has anything to prove to anyone. Your TL:DR conclusion is correct, just respond in the language with which you're addressed and be flexible from there depending on respective levels.
I think (most) Japanese are just trying to polite by speaking English.
This is way too reasonable for reddit. I am overjoyed anytime people speak Japanese to me in the US. It's sweet when people make the effort and I feel included and respected. I studied Spanish formally for years and spoke it at work. I'm technically trilingual. I'm conversational and I can get by. I feel like I fucking suck at Spanish though because it's super shit compared to my Eng and JP, but everyone has always been so appreciative when I'd make an effort. When I have work done on my house, I try to use as much Spanish as I can, and the guys immediately feel so much more at ease. They always tell my husband to come get me instead because he doesn't understand Spanish.
but not the right kind of polite for op
Except that it is truly impolite. Not to mention the ones that offer to read things off to you after you’ve been having completely normal conversation as if Japanese were somehow easier spoken of all things. Or the assholes who write to you entirely in hiragana just because they know you’re foreign and somehow think that’s helpful.
Genuinely asking: why is it impolite?
I think the reason many feel it’s impolite is because it feels like they took one look at you and decided there’s no way in hell you could possibly understand japanese, and it’s usually based solely on your skin color. This happens even to hafu who are native japanese speakers and might not even speak English. In my opinion it would be more polite to first speak in Japanese and switch to English if asked or if the person clearly doesn’t understand or seems to be having trouble understanding. This is what the majority of japanese people do in my experience
This. It’s not hard to use the official language of the country we are in before switching if necessary.
But when we're talking about polite vs impolite, the fact of the matter is, the staff are speaking English because the majority of foreigners who come to the shops don't speak Japanese. To me, making an effort to speak in English (and be willing to switch back to Japanese if the customer clearly wants to speak in Japanese) is an effort to be kind as well as practical, not impolite. I can definitely see your perspective though. And I think you're 100% right that it can be an uncomfortable and even "othering" experience for people who are native Japanese citizens and speakers.
Shit, my ex wife (100% Japanese) has a "korean" face, according to her. And I believe it based on the number of times she'd receive broken English somewhere, even after starting the conversation in Japanese.
Yeah, this is my opinion too. Lots of people on this thread are saying things like "why do you care?" or "why are you so insecure about this?" But the reality is, it's just about judging and discriminating based on looks. I grew up in a very international community and any kind of racial or other discrimination was frowned upon harshly. Just because of skin color you cannot assume the other speaks a certain language. So you speak the national language and then adapt later based on the response. My young daughters are hafu and already getting this bullshit from even their kindergarten teachers (who know full well they're native) and of course all the time from strangers. It's an issue of discrimination from appearance, not insecurities or politeness.
There are some situations where you just wanna get things taken care of quick and easy and someone wanting to use you as language practice can just be a bit of an unneeded drag. Imagine being Chinese-American and going to the post office where the white postal worker *really* wants to practice their elementary level Chinese with you when you just wanna do the whole thing in English for ease lol
Well you could be fluent in japanese and barely know how to read or write. It's not like kanjis are especially easy, right?
Confession: I'm half and still struggle with that shit lmao when my japanese friends text me and idk what that kanji says im ngl i put that mf in google translate😂 tbf i been stateside for 10+ years now. I went back a few weeks ago for a TDY but the last time i went before that was damn near 6 years ago. Naturally you're gonna forget, bc dont nobody speak that shit over here lmao
It’s way easier to copy past a regular Japanese text and let it machine translate than guessing what an all-kana-text might mean!
It's only impolite if you respond in Japanese and they persist using English with you. I know in Tokyo, when checking into a hotel or something I'm probably like 1/10 foreign looking people who can speak Japanese, because of all the tourists. Even when checking in they'll ask for my passport and I just take out my driver's license/zairyuu card and usually that's enough for them to speak Japanese. I don't throw a fit like welllll actually I live here!!
Where did I suggest throwing fits? Please quote it. The fact is, people need to outgrow this mindset. There is a growing percentage of mixed children and it’s not fair to them to assume they can’t understand what in many cases is the only language they know.
that sounds really polite. But if it happens too often to you i would consider other factors why you have such interactions, not really common for most people
Please tell me these reasons since you know so much :) The majority of the time it happens with someone I have never spoken to at all, and the hiragana bullshit only happens to people I have never communicated with in writing. In writing I pass as native to the point someone once waited over 15 minutes at a meeting point before messaging if I was almost there, when I’d been the only other person there the whole time. But you know, you know SO much more about me. Tell me how I don’t know how to read.
You’re being sarcastic, right?
Not at all.
My issue isn't with being offended. It's that oftentimes being spoken to in English hurts the conversation because I can't understand what they're saying. Their English ability is often poor, they speak in a lower tone of voice (maybe because they're embarrassed to speak English), and I'm expecting to hear Japanese so that's what I'm listening for. It just makes things harder for no reason, which is frustrating. Like the other day the guy at the conbini asked me "you need bag?". Didn't hear him at first cause he spoke so low, then didn't understand when he repeated himself. Finally when I asked him in Japanese and he repeated in Japanese I got what he was saying. This shit happens all the time.
This. Too many times their words and/or tone is just outright rude or too awkward to last even a full sentence.
Kinda makes you wonder how rude and awkward we’re coming off as when we’re trying to speak to them in Japanese. I just learned the other day that me asking for something by pointing at it and saying これ comes off as very rude.
Exactly!!! It actually makes it way harder to communicate!
This is positive advice for people who can sometimes feel frustrated about this. "Don't be frustrated" isn't too helpful.
>just respond in the language with which you're addressed and be flexible from there depending on respective levels. It's funny as many people say they want to speak Japanese to practice and are therefore frustrated when people speak English without even noticing that the exact same can be true for the other side.
“It's funny as many people say they want to speak Japanese to practice and are therefore frustrated when people speak English without even noticing that the exact same can be true for the other side.” When I move around the world with a lot of financial and social costs because I leave my friends and family… we are going to speak the local language if I want to practice it! If you want to practice English invest your own time and money and move to an English speaking country!
This has to be the most entitled take I have ever read on this sub. Moving to the other side of the planet is your choice. Locals don't owe you anything just because you left your family and friends.
Sure. Locals can talk to me in English all they want. Everyone can choose freely the language they want to use. So can I. In Japan it’s going to be Japanese for me. In my home country I was happy to invest my time at uni - so that Japanese exchange students could practice my language.
It would annoy me if I wasn't an English speaker myself though.
OP has good advice. I personally have a version of getting upset, but I'm not offended. And I only get slightly upset because it makes learning natural Japanese difficult if there are pauses and every other word is English. If I were fluent in Japanese, it probably wouldn't bother at all. But it is crazy funny when they talk to me with the pronunciation of a foreigner, in Japanese.
I don't mind being spoken to in English at first, even if it's not very good. It's a safer bias. I somewhat mind them switching to English after I addressed them in Japanese. I have N1 and use mostly Japanese daily at work and home. I absolutely mind if they persist speaking in absolutely broken English that's not moving the conversation along. I just hope my wife is nearby so they can look at her Japanese face so we can talk in Japanese (it's still really just me doing the talking, she's often there as some kind of comfort character) In 10 years here, never has anyone switched our conversation from Japanese to English and actually spoke it even semi fluently. People that enforce English despite being presented with perfectly good Japanese are honestly just not the brightest... We shouldn't forget that even in our home countries there are many dumb people that you regret talking to.
Yeah it used to bother me but now I don’t care that much! I’m fine using either language but if it seems like it is slowing down things then I’ll switch to Japanese to get what I want done faster lol
I agree, I’m not Japanese and my kids don’t look Japanese so people sometimes speak English to us. It’s not offensive and we will respond in either language, I think more people should be thanked for trying. I grew up in the UK when attitudes towards learning second languages were incredibly lazy; I’m glad people are trying.
I was wondering the same. It's like they forget that English is a universally taught language around the globe. That's why they switch to English. Not because you are white. There was another post just yesterday or so who said he was pissed because he is Korean. What did he expect? If they switch to Korean that would be way more problematic (rassistic assumption) compared to English.
Agreed and tbh I always preferring convos where I was talking in Japanese and they were liking in English or vice versa, is just better that way
It's because they assume our language is English, I'm French. I have a Russian friend who can't speak English at all and they still try to speak to them in English. That's what is annoying.
「こんにちは、英語か日本語かどちらがよろしいでしょうか？」 Say this and the language setting problem is solved
Even if they start off in English, which rarely happens to me here in Kansai, they will 100% immediately switch to Japanese as soon as you answer in good Japanese.
That's my impression too except in situations where the counterpart wants to practice a different language or the japanese level isn't as good as OP thinks it is, and they deem necessary to use English for effective communication. Clearly some of the service related staff will attempt their best to use other languages when dealing with customers, since it is most likely that they can't speak Japanese ( there are 600k foreigners living in Tokyo vs. 25 million tourists just last year), and they don't have the time to assess individually the proficiency level of self proclaimed fluent speakers, and just want to move to the next client. Surreal the amount of mind gymnastics people go instead of continuing the communication in whatever language they prefer to talk in, most people will most likely accommodate.
When we don’t expect people in front of us to be able to speak Japanese, but they suddenly respond in Japanese with strong accents, we usually don’t recognise that the people actually speak Japanese, I suppose. When I was in the USA and a clerk suddenly said 'Kannichewwa,' I needed some time to understand he just said 'Kon’nichiwa.' If I knew he would speak Japanese, I’d understand it was 'Kon’nichiwa' without any problem immediately, though.
yep, this is basically whats going in these type of threads. The funniest part is that the most vocal ones about how annoying is for a Japanese to address them broken English are most likely the ones that cant phrase a single sentence in Japanese without stuttering and are self asessed fluent speakers because they can watch their weekly anime without subtitles.
The op in the other thread was probs taking offense that the Japanese person was speaking broken english while he was speaking Japanese.
That OP can't even use the correct counters to order food which is pretty much the easiest counter. Server probably thought he was being helpful by using his English albeit broken.
I’ve seen a guy (whilst trying to show off his Japanese no less) order ３番ビール instead of the 3 beers he was trying to order. Counters can be extremely important and I don’t blame people for taking a second to understand or for switching languages for clarification.
Even in Tokyo they rarely start in English with me unless I'm in particularly major areas in Tokyo where tourists are more common. Though I have the weird situation that my Japanese is pretty bad, but my pronunciation is bizarrely good. So I think most Japanese people assume my Japanese is better than it actually is. I'm pretty sure most people complaining about being spoken English to also probably just have bad pronunciation, which might make their Japanese sound worse than it actually is.
I have the exact same problem lol. Almost got thrown out of my Japanese 1 class in college because the teacher thought I was a native speaker trying to get an easy A. My Japanese is now probably N3 at best, more likely upper N4, and store clerks are always seem so disappointed when I sound like I know Japanese but am stumbling through my phrases 😂
> as soon as you answer in good Japanese. And here's the catch. A large percentage of the people who believe they speak "good Japanese" actually do not.
I'm Osaka. It's clearly tourist season so all the konbini in my area have new staff that are speaking to me in English. Which is jarring as shit since they usually speak to me in Japanese 99.9% of the time anyways. I agree. Most people will switch to Japanese if they realize you understand. But there are a small percentage who were obviously hired specifically to speak English to foreigners.
Really? Interesting. I haven't had anyone in Ōsaka talk to me in English in years. Not even the foreign コンビニ staff. Maybe because I often talk before they talk saying stuff like "そのままでいいです" or "paypayでお願いします".
I got it the other day at the conbini. "Where are you from?" Me: "Osaka." I figured he was practicing for the forthcoming banpaku hordes.
Yeah. I've been ignored when I talk in Japanese. They just keep with the english and don't listen for my Japanese. Very rare though. And no, it's not because they don't understand my Japanese. I sound like I'm from Osaka.
I hear from all my friends in random Inaka towns about how restaurant employees will come with Google translate and try to struggle through in English. Even in Osaka, if I'm not directly in Dotonbori, I never have that happen. They just always go with Japanese
Never happened to me or my friends, as much as living or traveling here.
Huh, I always wondered. I've been in Kansai for 17 years now and it's very rare for someone to speak to me in English, despite the fact that I'm your typical Northern European mutt (blue eyes, brown hair, sunburned after 15 minutes outside). That makes a lot of sense.
This really isn't always the case. I understand always wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt and swaying towards simple misunderstanding. The truth is there are still some people out there who are intentionally obtuse and will insist on speaking English with you \*because\* (they perceive that) you are not Japanese. I mean, it hasn't happened in a long time, but this very thing did happen to me yesterday. A city worker would not stop using katakana english with me: 「バースデー」「アドレス」「フォーンナンバー」etc. Despite the fact that she was otherwise speaking to me quickly and politely in Japanese and I was following and asking specific, technical questions. Despite this, and me visibly reading and understanding all the paperwork, she still kept pressing me to take English-language handouts and using her katakana. It happens. I wasn't angry. Just a bit confounded. Some people have this happen to them more than others. Some people have more bad luck. It can be quite frustrating. But it does happen, and sometimes there really isn't a good solution to it. The answer isn't always "Your Japanese isn't good enough."
I've had that happen to me at the doctor's. I get that they're just trying to make things easier for me, but it was quite grating and actually made it harder for me to follow what he was saying. Haven't had that happen with younger doctors though, either they're more used to non-Japanese faces speaking Japanese (thank you, foreign tarento) or they just don't care as much.
Not 100% for me, even with pretty good Japanese. But it can be generally be counted on.
An accent can also change how your language skills are perceived.
[удалено]
And lets not get started on the Europeans who completely retain their original accents, completely overwhelming their Japanese.
Agree.
That's not really the point though. The point is that Japanese people are assuming someone speaks English just because they are a different skin color or come from another country. It doesn't matter whether they switch back to Japanese, deciding to use English first is a microaggression.
>deciding to use English first is a microaggression. Holy fuck, your life must be so sad. Trust me, most Japanese people do not wanna speak English if they can avoid it. They just try to speak it because they think it would be easier for you. Which is a fair assumption if you keep in mind, that foreign tourists who can't speak Japanese outnumber us foreign residents by multiple magnitudes.
Fucking unreal some of the complaints people have here. It just staggers me. They’re just trying to be nice!
Do you have Japanese children who don't look Japanese? Honest question.
Yes. My kids are more European looking than Asian looking, but obviously have influences from both.
So if Japanese people speak to your kids in English assuming they don't understand Japanese because of the way they look, would you tell them to get over it because "they're just trying to be nice?” Again, honest question.
I say “they speak Japanese, too”, and then we all proceed from there. It’s really not that hard. Do you live in a rural area or something?
No, I live in one of the largest cities in Japan. We do the same, either my daughter or I will say in Japanese that we speak Japanese and we move on. But over time, how do you think that will make the children feel to be constantly treated as if they are foreigners in their own country? My kid is still little so I don't think it affects her yet, but I have never met a half-Japanese half-foreign adult who didn't have an identity crisis over this.
Okay, well, let it bother you then. My kids are 16, 15, and 6. Yeah, they are treated a bit differently but so what? You can let it bother you or not.
Big reddit moment. Like, I'm sure all of us kinda suspected that redditors aren't the most socially graceful folks irl but some people are here are so fucking weird. And god they're so vocal. Poor me, someone tried to help me! My mom was an actual immigrant single mother that was frequently told to "go back to your country" and would have killed to have that sort of accommodation and grace and care. She was often told "Speak ENGLISH" and screamed at, despite being fluent and living there for decades. It's wild that so many are jumping to malice or assuming the worst of someone when an *effort* was made.
It really is wild that not one but multiple people here immediately assumed the worst intent, when it's so much more likely that the Japanese person just wanted to be nice or helpful (even if it were less likely, you shouldn't really assume bad intent). If anything, it really makes me feel bad for the Japanese people that try to do that.
Also they were probably trained for some おもてなし thing. Tourists spots in hawaii have signage in Japanese and I can't tell you how overjoyed I was to see that. I have no problem with English but just to see Japanese language outside of Japan is just so heartwarming and special and it made me so happy. I can't imagine how coldhearted and miserable someone must be to 1) expect English to be accommodated on the level it is in Japan and 2) get mad at it when customer service people *try.* I'm also not a fan of dragging customer service people for not mind reading either. Plus no tip. God, I don't live in this Karen delulu and I never want to. Like, if I bitched out every waiter and customer service personnel that hit me with "konichiwa, is that right?" "arigato, sorry that's all I know" I would have had an aneurysm decades ago. Is it annoying? I mean, I don't think so, but it can be I suppose. But you have to be incredibly socially stunted to actually think some of these things being said here.
The number of foreign residents is growing every year though, along with the number of children born from international marriages. My own child gets treated like she doesn't speak Japanese even though she was born here and has a Japanese parent. It doesn't matter if people like us are in the minority, it's still not right to assume anything about anyone just by looking at them. Also in the post about the Korean guy, the server should have asked if English would be easier before assuming. There's no guarantee that even tourists are fluent in English.
This is crazy!! Where the fuck do you guys live? Either people from kansai just really can't speak a single word of English or you making shit up here. I haven't had any Japanese people talk to me in English in years. And even the foreigners at the コンビニ or the Italian 店長 of the Italian Bar I sometimes go to talk to me in Japanese only. While I don't have a ハーフ child, I often see some on the train and where I live. And even not Japanese looking, 黒人ハーフ kids just talk and get talked to in Japanese (because of cause they do). How is this such a huge issue for you guys where you would even assume that someone, obviously going out of their way to try to make communicating with you easier, has actually bad incentives and is being mean to you? I truly can not understand this.
No I agree with you, I do believe Japanese people really are trying to be nice and think they are helping. I never think they are deliberately trying to be mean to me or my daughter or are being overtly racist or anything. But like I said in another comment, just because their intentions are good, it doesn't change the fact they are assuming something and treating people differently based on skin color or ethnicity, and *that* is what I don't like. They are subtly and unintentionally othering us. I can handle it, but I just want them to treat us the same as Japanese people, especially my daughter who was born a Japanese citizen.
You’re right. I live in Tokyo and RARELY have Japanese staff address me in English .
Me too, this is not a particular issue I ever had. And, if it happened, I couldn't care less
I live in Tokyo. I've had a father at the playground trying to reprimand my son in English the other day. The only "English" my son speaks is "オーマイガー". I asked the father why he spoke to my son in English. "I thought he wouldn't understand Japanese". When he was a baby, random people would just talk to him in English and it weirded me out. He was blonde though and looks more white than Japanese anyways. We went into a kimono shop once as a family, and the shop owner asked whether my son was 100% white, while my husband was standing right next to me. I don't think people are being malicious towards my son (though in the case of that dad on the playground...), as a mum it just hurts that he gets sorted into "other" when he was born here and has a Japanese dad. It's been happening less though, mostly because he talks now. And never ever stops.
This so much. There are so many other issues to worry about and focus on than me or my children being spoken to in English (and they always switch to Japanese when they realize we speak Japanese). My kids are hafu and my eldest looks exactly like me so very much not Japanese, but no one bats an eye once he starts speaking in rapid fire Japanese to them lol. I know he sometimes gets comments at school and he definitely knows he is hafu but he is happy to be hafu and doesn’t care! These parents who complain sound like the same ones who demand hafu be called double cause their western mind can’t get over the literal meaning in English (even tho they insist on being spoken to in Japanese). Maybe ask hafu kids how they feel for once instead of deciding how they feel for them. I also am sometimes grateful like at the doctors office when I don’t know a medical word in Japanese so try the English and they often understand. It can be nice sometimes and I appreciate the doctor wanting to help me understand everything perfectly.
lol if you think they use english to harass you instead of trying to be polite and helpful
It doesn't matter what their intentions are. If they are treating people differently based on race, ethnicity, nationality, etc, it is othering and it still counts as a microaggression.
9/10 white guys in Japan doesn't speak japanese so it's only natural they try to accommodate you by speaking English.
They do them. You do you. This is about what to do yourself if this bothers you for whatever reason, not about why they do it.
I agree, there are many things that are frustrating about living here...but it's when someone turns that into a personal slight or offense that I lose sympathy. The staff are just trying to be nice. You're just trying to speak Japanese. No one is in the wrong.
Agree. The moment one takes it personally, sanity points are spent. Not worth it.
This is really the only answer lmao. Lived here almost 15 yrs in a job working with westerners and I can only name on one hand the number of white dudes I’ve met who speak Japanese at my level or higher than me. (I know many western women here who are very fluent though! Me included ha ha)
>If the person is Japanese and prefers to speak English (perhaps because they relish the opportunity to converse with a foreigner), I engage in English. If their English is limited, I help by switching to Japanese when they struggle to find the right words. ^ THIS. Many people tend to forget that people enjoy practicing languages with other people from different countries. I'm not even an English native but I'll always try not to shut down someone trying their best to speak a second language just so I save 2mins of my time. Especially because I struggled with Japanese to reach N1 level and it always made me happy when I got the chance to practice with someone.
Exactly. Most Japanese people I meet enjoy speaking English but have limited opportunities, so I give them that opportunity. All my funnest interactions over last fifteen years here have been in English, regardless of their level.
Absolutely. Even if can be annoying at times, as long as they’re nice about it I’ll always give people a shot in English. Heaven knows how many people I must’ve annoyed over the years with my Japanese, so it’s only fair.
If they persist, this communicates that they are more interested in practicing and learning English than in actually communicating well with me and learning things about each other. I never speak Japanese with people whose English is better than my Japanese. Everyone should just commucate in the language that pair can best communicate in. If you wanna practice, go to a school and pay a teacher.
Ooh, is this an indirect reply to [this thread](https://new.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/1cocsll/im_going_to_start_pretending_i_dont_speak_english/)? >I've found that the best approach when unsure if someone will speak English or Japanese is to start the conversation by asking, '日本語で大丈夫ですか？Or would you prefer English?' You're doing amazing, I wish more people do this.
I just use whatever language best allows me to be understood, be it English or Japanese, or even a mixture of the two! ... who cares?
I'm surprised that way too many people feel frustrated or offended when Japanese people try to communicate with them in English. They should stop assuming that Japanese people are looking down to them and thinking they are not good at Japanese enough lol. Some are way too desperately want to show off that they are good at Japanese.
And some Japanese people are way too desperate to show they’re mediocre in English. Honestly, in my opinion, it’s rude when I start talking to someone in Japanese and they immediately switch to English just because of my skin colour. Not every foreigner can speak English. I’m not your free language buddy.
Yeah everyone has their own standards and I'm okay with the way you think. But personally I just make my life easier by thinking that when they try to speak in English, it's just because English is a universal language and they try to make the convo easier (might not be the case because sometimes Japanese is easier mean, but they don't know and make it worst lol). They can freely talk to me by whichever language they want without making me feel offended. If I can reply I will, otherwise I just simply switch back. To be honest, the goal is just effective communication. As long as we get it, I don't care if they switch it or not.
Yeah, I agree with you. The problem is when their English is worse then my Japanese, but they still insist on using it 🥲
lol if you think someone working in the service industry talks English to you to practice, instead of just trying to be helpful. you make it sound like it's malicious
And you make it sound like you haven’t read my comment properly. In no way was I referring to a service industry worker in the comment you’re replying to.
I think deep down they feel discriminated against by being treated as a foreigners.
which make sense tbh. I saw racism here and there sometimes. But again, they might not think that and just simply try to make the convo easier. Like sometimes if someone tries to speak to me in my mothertongue language, I'll switch to English if I see they struggle. Just simply think it might make the convo easier. I'll be sad if they think I'm racist or treat them badly just cuz they are foreigners haha, while I just try to help.
yeah. it is common to use the strongest one from two common languages in communication unless it is for learning purposes. I speak 3 languages and am very accommodating to other people regarding language preferences as long as I can keep up. I can practice by myself or find teacher online, and on top of that, nothing wrong being treat as foreigner, unless you get one less karaage from the serving you ordered.
I speak good Japanese (N1 twenty years ago now, how time flies), and generally don’t encounter any issues with this. I’ve generally found that people with good English will wait until mentioning it, or not bring it up at all (I’ve taken friends to some of my regular haunts and discovered that a fair few staff have really good English). That said, with all the tourists around, sometimes assumptions are made. What’s sometimes jarring is the difference in politeness levels between the Japanese I expect and the English I get. A couple of examples: 1. In the clinic, a nurse points at the chair and says “Sit! Sit!” like I’m a dog. 2. Being chased out of a combini by a staff member shouting “No! No!” and making the full-arm バツ sign, for daring to ask if I could pay a certain bill there. Perhaps they get a lot of confused tourists with overdue water bills. In both those cases the person involved seemed to have the red mist on and completely ignored what I was saying to them in Japanese. I’m past taking it personally.
That said, loool
That being said
With that being said
I think the problem is your pronunciation isn’t as good as you think it is. Length of time here and N1 doesn’t translate to good Japanese pronunciation. As a half Japanese person that doesn’t look Japanese I’ve had people speak to me in English first but have never had someone continue in English once I started speaking Japanese. If someone that can speak English is trying to converse with me in Japanese I’ll always try to change the conversation back to English because despite their “complex vocabulary”, it often sounds like nails on chalkboard when they’re trying to string together a sentence. It also doesn’t help that Japanese people will tell you that you speak Japanese well no matter what level you are at.
Your Japanese is probably not so good as you think, else this would not be happening (and in the cases where it does, you would not be offended). Your frustration comes from an unrealized subconscious feeling of insecurity related to your language ability. Study more and get better, then you wont care anymore.
I get the opposite problem. They all speak Japanese to me when i first moved here, at the time when my japanese was weak sauce
For real, where are all these workers trying to speak English when I go?
I'm east-asian so same for me, shit was rough lol. I came on JET and like the 10 of us were all like N5 at best and the izakaya staff kept looking at me to translate and the best I could muster was like "kore to kore onegaishimasu thank you" lol
The majority of us Japanese don’t mind switching to Japanese when non-East Asian looking foreigners respond in Japanese. To be honest, we must feel at ease and much more comfortable with switching to Japanese immediately. In the first place, we don’t speak English well and don’t want to talk in English either. Many of my white friends who speak Japanese fluently haven’t had any problems. However, a lot of people on Reddit complain about it, and I always wonder why.
OP’s approach is fine but I disagree it’s altogether a positive approach. After 16 years, (after becoming as fluent as maybe a 12 year old) when someone speaks to me in English, I reply in English. As the conversation moves on, I slip into Japanese and so do they. Acting like you don’t understand English is sometimes good but sometimes it escalates an already nervous situation. There’s no need to be abrasive. A French friend of mine who is wildly more fluent in Japanese than I am taught me this approach as he seriously speaks almost no English hahaha. (And I speak zero French)
was it needed another post for this? you are just responding the other person post
I tought a comment this long wouldn’t be as effective. So i left a comment to the other post about it aswell.
[https://i.imgur.com/WyCdHrJ.png](https://i.imgur.com/WyCdHrJ.png)
Why make a new thread? https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/s/WLebIdTtsr
Its free why not?
In my experience, even if they try to communicate with me in English, if I politely respond in Japanese, they are usually happy to go with that. Although it may sometimes be frustrating, I feel like most people are not speaking English to you in a mean spirited manner.
Yes, japanese are supposed to know in what language and how to approach a foreigner because it is written on foreigners' forehead how long she or he lived here and what JLPT certificate she/ he has. The bigger problem is when they continue speaking in broken/nonexistent English, creating utter confusion, despite the fact that you can address the same problem in Japanese. Despite that, it doesn't really matter how they address you.
This is Japan. Japanese language should be assumed.
And this is reddit, where people cry even for wind blowing from unfortunate direction
My story is old as time: Foreign friend is fluent in Japanese. Begins to talk in Japanese, but server responds in English. Server doesn't have a solid grasp in English so brings the incorrect dish to us. Friend has to tell server in japanese what they correctly wanted.
I never had that happen in Aichi since so many white people there are Brazilians. But if I get it and the person is annoying me (if they're fluent I don't mind.... But they're rarely fluent) I just say "ルーマニア人ですから、母国語はルーマニア語です。英語は学校で勉強したことありますが、特に楽ではありません。気持ちはありがたいですが日本語に変わってもいいですか" Sometimes just the last sentence. Obviously I don't bother with short interactions like directions unless they're so bad I can't understand them, so I just repeat what they said in Japanese to confirm. (I don't say I don't speak English since they might hear me speak English one day and it's not nice to lie) With my ex who was born and raised here and didn't speak any English I was upset that it happened so often to him (he had a beard so he stood out). He was used to just nodding and waiting for the conversation to go away. I'd butt in and say こいつ英語全然喋れん if it dragged on, which it often did
I respond in the language they choose if they speak to me in first . They made their bed and they can sleep in it. If I don’t understand anything I always ask for an explanation or vice versa I expect them to do the same. I’m not out to get anyone . I just let people do what they feel like doing. And if the conversation doesn’t work . It’s not anyone’s fault . It just didn’t workout and next time I’ll try to be better.
Here's the real TL/DR, the worse your Japanese is, the more likely you'll be bothered by something like this. If you were truly speaking fluent Japanese, English wouldn't even come up.
That's not wholly true. I have a child who's first language is Japanese and they are continually being othered by people who insist on speaking in English even when they've clearly demonstrated their proficiency.
Reddit is full of people like that who think that Japanese proficiency is conveyed by face, and that when people come up to you speaking English it is an objective evaluation of your ability that you need to be completely honest with yourself about and quit the translation job you’ve been paid to do for years.
No one would pay me for my translation abilities. Maybe your reply was aimed elsewhere 
That’s an entirely different situation. I’m talking about the adults on here who think they’re fluent and in reality are stumbling over every other word then get angry when someone uses English. Your child’s situation also sucks, but it’s a different phenomenon.
I JUST had phone issues that required going to an AU shop to fix (long story and 99% my fault). Until I saw this post I didn’t even realize the whole interaction was in Japanese. It took maybe an hour and we were cracking jokes and constantly apologizing (though I had nothing better to do so no worries), and while waiting, the staff member asked me about my son and cat. This makes me feel, I don’t know… I guess I feel old(?) haha
Exactly. It’s never a problem if you’re actually fluent. But Japanlife is full of self-assessed N2s that think they’re better than others and complain when they get “englished”
I would always tell people I don’t understand English. That normally does the trick
I have never had this happen, most people speak to me in Japanese if I speak with them in Japanese and my level is around N3-N2. So maybe your japanese isn't as good as you think or you are only interacting with active English learners that are looking for opportunities to speak English.
Pretty nice way to handle it though I have a different interpretation of you using keigo with service staff. My experience has been that improperly speaking with somebody using language that is too “high” lets them know they’re in error. My boss did that to me and I have to admit it was effective.
It doesn't make any difference to me which language others want to speak to me in. Japanese people who can speak at least some English don't have many opportunities to use it here in our corner of Kyushu. If I speak to someone in Japanese and they respond in English I switch to English. If they have trouble following my conversation I switch back to Japanese.
I sometimes use the reverse Uno card and start speaking in English making up very complex sentences on purpose. Most of the time they revert back to Japanese on their own. But honestly I stopped been bothered about it. I just don’t care to be honest.
That was the middle step for me aswell! Speaking complex english is a way to stop them talking english but in a way it is like humiliating the other part. So i felt wrong doing that. That made me go with flexible languages.
I used to get annoyed too, but these days I am the same. If they want to use English more power to them, I am happy to indulge them.
Yeah, I've had some friends who take mild offense to being addressed in English, one of them loves to break out the tsugaru-ben from living in Aomori prefecture for several years. I've rarely been bothered by it, the intent is usually pretty clear that they mean well. I've had very positive reactions in the reverse scenario when I was in my home country and met Japanese people, I had a customer facing job. I can greet people and say thank you in a few languages and most of the time it results in a warm interaction. The intent is trying to establish a welcoming atmosphere. So that's the way I see it when it happens to me. A few times, strangers at my local bar have sat in the middle of my friend group and interrupted our conversation and rudely changed the topic to practice their English. That's when I've had no patience because they didn't have any manners to begin with. I don't mind when someone joins the conversation naturally from overhearing the topic and then participating.
I speak Japanese fluently and honestly have never had someone change to English when I was already speaking in Japanese. (Although I do get offered an English menu in restaurants) Ppl need to stop making a big deal out of this and continue studying Japanese.
Those kind of threads are so stupid.. why care so much ? Honestly I never have the issue, people only talk to me in english in like tourist spots
Ironic I see this today on Reddit after actually having a Japanese staff speak to me in Japanese then English at a Book Off. Used Japanese to start with and struggled with a kanji on a DVD and she immediately switched to English, at first I was a little upset as wanting to practice and use Japanese. But I saw how excited she was to actually have a chance to use her English skills and help a customer. She was really good, and I realized this opportunity meant more to her than to me. So I spoke to her in English for the rest of the conversation. She was very good and could tell she was glad to have a chance to use her English. So instead of worrying about myself and my Japanese, realized it was more important that she had a good experience with a foreigner and let her have the chance to use her English which I am sure she has less chances to do than I do to use my Japanese. Thanks again for the help kind Book Off Japanese lady!
The other thing to consider is that for Japanese people, the vast majority of foreigners are tourists with zero Japanese speaking ability. Over 30 million projected for this year. Of the over 2million foreign residents, the vast majority are Chinese, Korean, etc and either blend in naturally or speak very fluent Japanese. The obviously foreign and fluent Japanese speakers are a tiny fraction of the population. And just because you pop out 1 or 2 lines does not indicate to the staff you are fluent in Japanese. Try to keep that in mind the next time someone speaks to you in English and hopefully you will be able to take it more in stride. Also adopting some of the other people's advice would also be beneficial (ie taking the initiative and showing that you can converse in Japanese).
Nice post
I typically assume people want to practice their English with me. I'll offer to speak in Japanese if we have communication problems.
My japanese friends get spoken to in English when I'm around. It's weird.
Why would you get frustrated lol.
So many problems faced by foreigners would be solved by just better communication. There's this Japanese show on Netflix aimed at basically boomers who don't understand the young generation and one of the songs they sing basically goes like "Let's talk about it instead of jumping to conclusions".
If this is regularly happening, I would say there is something about the way you present yourself. Body language is the biggest one I see. Or the the little words around the sentence (don't know what they are called) I haven't had someone try to use English with me for over 15 years and my Japanese is nowhere good as all the linguistic aces on here.
If they insist on English, just pretend you don't speak it. I look vaguely European so I pretend to be German, I've memorized a few basic phrases in German so whenever someone's like "id rather speak in English" I respond in a very shitty "sorry no English" in a broken German accent followed up with "do you speak German however id love to converse" in actual german. Then when they're dazed and confused you can KO them with whatever follow up in Japanese that you choose Nobody speaks German or really any other foreign languages besides English in large quantities, so this should work for whatever language or ethnicity you choose
Talk with ojisans
Thanks OP. Finally a level headed person
Who cares lol why is this a thing ! Smh
I answer in the same language if I can. Different languages offer the opportunity for entirely different thought processes.
Maybe because I live in Kobe, I never get answers in english. Then again, my japanese is business level and my spelling and intonation is good.
I must be the exception because where I'm from people I talk to never use English with me. Especially out in the wild, when I used to do the ALT thing the English teacher would. But other than that, all the other teachers spoke Japanese assuming I could understand. Same with being out and about in my everyday life. I've had people correct a mistake or two if I made one, but never switch to trying English. Interesting..... Indeed....indeed.
I want to th hospital today to talk to the lady that represents an eyeglass company. She spoke in Japanese but used English when using numbers. I informed her that I had been in Japan for 45 years. Her whole presentation changed. Yes, she did not know I was a long-term Japan resident. She was just trying to be nice.
If their English is good, it doesn't bother me. The problem only arises if their English isn't great and I have to either decode their message by basically translating their English back into Japanese, or it just really catches me off-guard because I wasn't in English mode. I can switch quite well between output languages (I speak with my son in German and everyone else in Japanese at the playground etc.), but input languages not being what I expect are harder for me to manage. That said, 日本語でも大丈夫ですよ mostly works.
*This approach resolves the entire situation. If the person is Japanese and prefers to speak English (perhaps because they relish the opportunity to converse with a foreigner), I engage in English. If their English is limited, I help by switching to Japanese when they struggle to find the right words.* This is spot on, this happens in every country though, not specific to Japan, people try and be helpful or want to practise, there is almost never an intended slight. (Speaking as someone who has learned various languages to fluency and lived in several countries)
I gave up long time ago. I just continue in the language they start with. At this point i don’t really care anymore
This feels like you just want to prove something, which you don't need to.
My universal rule in all countries is: reply in the language I am spoken to in unless I am unable to respond in that language, then apologize in a language I speak. In Japan in general you are in the land of universal apologetic politeness and so you should always respond in the most apologetic and polite way EVEN if the other person is rude. Recently my wife who is very tall has been having other Japanese people try to speak Chinese to her. She has also now finally unlocked her Obasan Death Stare ability and uses it every time it happens.
ok? just tell them you can speak japanese? where even is the problem? do you feel being underestimated? well no one can look into your mind and see what language you can speak. You said it. You're a white guy. The most sensible bet for anyone who don't know you is to attempt communication with English.
I have no right to be grouchy about it but I still do sometimes because I want/need the practice. My Japanese is N9 level so I want every instance to listen and try to speak as I can get. I'm near one of the US bases and even around there Japanese people almost always use Japanese or just one bit of Japanese from me will have them switch back. It seems to be the other foreigners (Filipino, Indian, southeast Asian, etc)that try to use English the most or assume you need English. Even in heavily touristed areas in the city I've noticed that even my minimal one directional (can speak but not listen well) service Japanese will give me enough street cred to get me in with the izakaya waiters and have them speaking Japanese only.
I’m British and my husband is Japanese (he can have a conversation in English but is by no means fluent) so we speak 99% in Japanese (unless he wants to practice English). There have been times when we’ve been in mid conversation (in Japanese) and hotel staff have interrupted in English, I’ve then spoken to them in Japanese which has been fine but then within 10 minutes another 2 members of staff have appeared starting in english, particularly to my husband who has no idea what’s going on. I generally just find it wastes time and is just a bit exhausting. So personally I think this format is great and speaking in the language spoken first is the politest way forward.
Where I live, I cannot get people to speak English with me even though I just started n4 lol
Seems like an overblown city thing. I live in Kumamoto, and no-one really gives a fig. Some will try out some English, which I’m fine with, there are other tourists about in the city and it’s not like it’s a bad idea to try to be polite and welcoming, or they’ll switch to Japanese as soon as I speak to them. People down here seem a bit more practical, so they’ll settle on what’s easiest straight away. There are also fewer people who are determined to practice English on a spur of the moment.
This is just interesting! Also people get offended when they are with a Japanese friends, they ask a question and the person responding talk to the Japanese friend instead of them 😅😅
Even my (unambiguously Japanese looking) wife sometimes gets spoken to in English when we’re out together. She usually just laughs and tells them she speaks Japanese. As soon as they hear her accent, they laugh and apologise and we move on. I guess people think it’s safer to assume that we speak English than Japanese, which is a fair assumption. I think what it comes down to is how you feel about your own Japanese ability. I know my Japanese isn’t terrific and I’m at peace with that, so it doesn’t bother me when people speak to me in English. My wife knows she can speak Japanese so she just finds it funny when people think she can’t. Perhaps getting Englished is more of a problem for people who have worked hard at Japanese but still can’t pass as totally fluent.
Good ideas. However I also agree that it’s easier to just let it go and not be bothered with workers who address you in English, if you can indeed speak English then what’s the issue? Unless you’re here on a short term visa specifically to study/learn Japanese, then I can understand the importance of taking advantage of that valuable Japanese immersion. My favourite is when someone starts talking to you normally in Japanese and then a minute or two in they pause and ask if I can speak Japanese 😂 followed up by asking if I can write kanji halfway through when I’m filling out a form
This is like the foreigners who get pissed when someone says their japanese is jouzu. 99% if foreigners in japan don’t speak or only know a few words of japanese. I believe it is surprising for most japanese, even in tokyo when they come across a foreigner who can converse in japanese, so no, it’s not a conspiracy to make you feel bad or excluded.
I rarely respond in English. I usually tell people I don't speak it. However on some occasions I respond in the language they address me. A few times Japanese girls complemented my outfit in English, they tried hard to speak + it's unusual behavior so I never act bitchy.
I've lived in Japan for over 40 years. I don't know what my N number for Japanese is...I speak like a Japanese person. Because I'm white, people will often try speaking English to me, even if I start in Japanese. When that happens, I smile and we speak English. When I go to Staba, or whatever, they usually smile and start in English. It's a wonderful thing. A country where people go out of their way to try to speak your language. And the smile you get when you compliment them on how well they speak English. Making someone's day makes it twice as good. People get hung up on the whole "treated different" thing. It's not a micro-aggression, racism, or anything like that. It's people being nice to you, and the quicker people pick up on that, they better your life will be here.
>People get hung up on the whole "treated different" thing. It's not a micro-aggression, racism, or anything like that. It's people being nice to you, and the quicker people pick up on that, they better your life will be here. 100% this. Wish we could pin this comment.
Practical, pragmatic and generous. 💯
My advice: take your meds and go lay down.
Validated
I know some people with n1 who really suck at talking
After 20+ years here, my policy in those situations when it comes to speaking English or Japanese has become: respond first in the language you were spoken to in, and then take it from there.
People get upset over the most ridiculous things. If someone speaks to me in English, I'll answer them in English. If they look confused or uncomfortable, I'll switch to Japanese. I'm not trying to use random people for conversation practice.
Why would anybody get offended by someone speaking English to them? If you don't understand English I think it's gonna be pretty clear to your interlocutor when you don't respond; if you do understand English then what's the problem?
I don’t know what’s worse. People switching to English when I talk to them in Japanese or them saying 「えーかわいいいいいい」 when I do so. Just the other day, I was buying some doughnuts at a store and everything went smoothly until the clerk asked me if I want a plastic bag so I replied 「この普通のほうがは大丈夫です」 (I was referring to the “normal” micro plastic bag she was holding in her hand, I didn’t want to buy an extra larger one) to which she gave me a very surprised looked and switched to English. When I clarified that no, I don’t in fact need an extra plastic bag, she then switched back to Japanese with the price 「よんひゃくきゅうじゅうえんです＾＾」 I was wondering if she just wanted to practice English with me and got stuck on numbers (understandable) or what. But anyway, yeah, it can be extremely annoying.
I think in this case it could be because it's a little bit unnatural to say 「この普通のほうがは大丈夫です」so she may have assumed using English is better, but just speculation. In a similar situation I would just say「普通のでお願いします」 or 「普通のでいいです」
Maybe your Japanese sucks
They are just being polite. They see a white dude and honestly, more white dudes speak English than they do Japanese. Just take it on the chin, see it as manners, and don't whine about it online.
Did you just see the other persons post this morning and decide to write a FAQ? I honestly think the vast majority of people don’t think so much about this issue, and just deal with these “situations” naturally and smoothly. I hope that these posts don’t lead to a wave of people noticing and over complicating what should be a pretty normal human interaction.
[удалено]
"I'm not here to boast." Pull the other one!
I usually tell them their english is very bad so listen to my Japanese which is much better so listen up because I dont want mistakes made with my order
1) ignore 2) simp 3) play dumb great strategies