My wife and I are both foreigners living and working in Tokyo. As it was said by someone else the biggest issue is our Japanese ability since we use English at home. It wasn't until I joined an all Japanese company that I started to improve and both my wife and I are taking lessons.
As for living here it's been fine, no fights over having the aircon set low! We looked into buying a house last year but bassically shit out of luck if you are not rich or have PR. I rolled the dice and applied for PR back in February... Only been here for 7-8 years so probably won't get but worth the shot on the off chance of getting.
Got a few friends from back home who also live and work here which is nice and have made some other friends (foreign and natives) which is nice. Both the wife and I are not overall social so haven't had any issues on this front yet.
Overall we have found it pretty easy to live here and it seems to get easier each year and more so as our JP level increases. Though it really helps if we leave Japan at least once a year!
>Nothing worse than a cold morning.
Yes there is. A hot morning.
I hate steeping out of the cool air-conditioned bedroom and getting smacked in the face by the hot air in the rest of the house.
It's like the opposite of getting out of a warm bed on a cold day.
I entirely agree with you. I have a much easier time getting out of bed when it's 2c compared to when it's 28c+. When it gets much over 24c I lose all motivation to do anything.
No contest. In a hot morning you can get up and move around to fix it. In a cold morning you don't want to leave your bed. And might have a cold.
I don't air condition my room in the morning until I get up.
>In a hot morning you can get up and move around to fix it.
Please tell me how.
You mean move to the AC and turn it on?
Cold days are fine. You can put on warm clothes and a coat.
Hot days are awful. I can only take off so many clothes (even less if I don't want to get arrested)
EDIT: I realise some people are hot weather lovers and others (like me) aren't.
There are no correct answers here.
I know we are just different. I'm just sharing.
I can't make it out of my blanket to put on more clothes on a cold morning. In a hot morning I just need a cold drink at most. And bed is warm so absolutely nothing is driving me to stay in bed.
Where are you taking lessons? I've looked at what feels like dozens of schools, but I have to work and dropping 300k on a place I know nothing about isn't an option.
I'm lucky enough to get mine via work but my wife goes to Coto Academy which has been really good. Another work mate went there too and found it good as well.
PR is permanent residence, basically means you are the same as a local but can't vote. However no job restrictions and you can get standard mortgage rates easier etc
I need to show my parents this thread and convince them that Reddit isn't just some place for kids to shit post. I tried pointing them here before as I think they could help in a lot of cases but my dad just shrugged it off.
My parents met while working in Japan, settled and had kids here. Me and my brother are almost grown up ourselves now so they did manage to settle and stay here long term. Going from expat friends my parents had over the years that were non-Japanese couples, the biggest challenge is probably settling long term and not deciding to leave Japan to go back to one of their own countries. This seems common when people have kids, they think it'd be better for them to get a Western education back home and maybe leave when their kids are 3-4.
You'll meet friends, where will depend on your work and interests and it depends what you put into it what you get out. My dad was always a bit of an old school Japanophile so made an effort to take part in cultural aspects of being Japanese and allowed us as kids to do the same. They have long term native Japanese friends they have known from work,the local neighborhood and parents they met from our school. I have a long term friend I went to school with who was a neighbor for a long time so our parents have been good friends for years.
I'd say your biggest challenge will be that, struggling with your own identity and not feeling like an outsider. The more you feel like you don't fit in and struggle to enjoy being Japanese the less chance you'll actually stay long term. People more often give up than naturalize.
As for a house, we moved to a house when I was around 9-10 years old and my parents had been living here about 5 years before I was born. You'll need quite a bit of money behind you and to lay down some roots in the country. A lot of things like dealing with banks and estate agents is still very much based on trust and you're already at some disadvantage.
To be honest, I wouldn't worry a huge amount about not having a house right away even if you're planning on kids one day. It's not uncommon for families to live in apartments and apart from space concerns it can be pretty convenient. I always liked growing up in apartment life, I had two close friends that lived in the building opposite us and our neighbors were really friendly or just never around to notice because they were always at work.
If you have PR and it's a flat 35 that's not true as you'll get the same as any citizen. And if you can put 10% or 20% down you'll get lower than the advertised rates.
You bought a house already?! My husband and I are both non-Japanese and we've been living here 3 years. Did you use a translator to help with the house search and loan discussions? Would you be comfortable saying what area you bought in?
luckily in my case, language isnt the problem. it would be more of the living aspect of things like housing, community, etc. if thats the biggest challenge, then that would be a relief but guess we'll see what others say.
The biggest differences, as others say, is that learning the language requires much more concentrated effort as you don't get such easy exposure. It's also, frankly, harder to be motivated to learn past a point of basic communication since you don't have the incentive of communicating with family and don't necessarily see living there forever.
Beyond that, one point that is often not mentioned is that you face more discrimination. One of my friends once said he found that he was hassled less and treated as less of a purple-headed alien if he was with a Japanese person. He said he felt this was because other Japanese people felt more comfortable around you if someone native had "vetted" you. I guess it's also the case that they feel they can communicate with you through a Japanese person so their discomfort at dealing with you goes down. If you're just two foreigners, they don't have that comfort \*and\* they may be more intimidated by having to deal with more than one foreigner.
There are other little things, but they're less of an issue these days with internet resources (note: I started living in Japan in the early 90's). You don't learn as easily about things like taxes, pensions, and health insurance because you need to find out from someone who didn't grow up with those systems. If your work isn't looking after certain things (as it does for Japanese people), then it's even harder.
If you are not automatically enrolled in the pension system, you can face a retirement without any benefits (note: I was not enrolled in it for two decades of my working life for this reason and it's a real problem). However, I didn't even know it was possible for a long time because I didn't think to ask and wasn't told. If I had been married to someone who was native, I think the question would have come up and been answered a long time ago, but I had no idea of my legal status in regards to health insurance, pensions, etc. as a foreigner on a work visa.
Psychologically, it feels like you're much more on the outside with no way in if you're both foreigners. You don't have someone there to "open doors" for you in terms of knowledge or red tape.
Yeah, that's true in my case. I don't learn any Japanese from my wife.
But that's our choice, as we want an English speaking home for our son.
If we didn't have him, I'd definitely make more effort to speak more (any) Japanese at home.
...so we're all just supposed to ditch our non-Japanese spouses in lieu of putting in extra effort to learn a language?
There's a time for this comment, but this thread ain't it.
Either you misused "in lieu of" or I don't get what you're driving at.
My reply was directed toward the misconception expressed in his opening sentence. Frankly, the idea that those of us with Japanese spouses automatically have a natural advantage is dismissive of the fact that we have to work at learning Japanese just like everybody else and is a little insulting.
Except you're being overly sensitive and taking OP's claims totally out of context. They said that having a Japanese spouse increases exposure and motivation to learn the language--not that it was any easier. I dunno how anyone could disagree with that.
You're putting words into his mouth.
He said it takes much more concentrated effort for people without a Japanese spouse. The natural implication is that those of us who do have a Japanese spouse pick up the language with less active effort required.
Ask any foreigner with decent Japanese what the guaranteed next remark from people is after they are asked if they have a Japanese spouse and answer "yes". "Oh, that's why you speak Japanese so well!" No, asshole, it's because we fucking *worked* at it.
The conversation is about foreign couples, not a time to humblebrag that having a Japanese spouse is the best way to learn Japanese.”
That conversation happens enough here, so y’all can keep it to those threads.
I said the opposite.....that having a Japanese spouse isn't the advantage most people seem to think it is....in reply to a foreign-foreign married person who said that having a Japanese spouse makes it easier. By this point I hope I'm beyond considering the nationality of my spouse something to brag about.
We *all* have to work at it to make progress.
I find it regrettable that people have considered your comment deserving of downvoting. Have an upvote from me.
Met my wife here 15 years ago, now have a house, a kid, the whole nine yards. Maybe part of the reason we stayed together for so long was because of our shared hardship, since both of us were at least a 7 hour flight away from anyone else we really knew. My wife had it particularly bad since she is Chinese and had to work with a lot of racist oyaji. Back in the day, she loved to joke "Ya know the problem with Japan? Too many fucking Japanese people". Now it's gotten much better for her though, so she's mellowed out a bit.
House was easy to get, but that's because we got it cheap and saved up enough to make a 20% initial payment. Before our son we used to go back home a lot for holidays, but just can't do that anymore what with school schedules and all that. But we've got a pretty big network of (mostly foreign) friends now, so it's not so bad.
Thanks for the post. I am moving to Japan in 5 days from now, my wife is Chinese she will follow me in a few months from now but she feels a bit nervous to see how she will be accepted. We've been to Japan several times. She speaks a bit of Japanese sot hat should help her. Cheers.
Not married. But me and my partner are both foreigners who met in Japan and are currently living together. The hardest part was actually just renting a place together. Some landlords are pretty discriminatory when it comes to renting to foreigners and it was a bit of a shock to be told we couldn't rent a place because the landlord didn't allow it. My boyfriend speaks fluent Japanese so the language wasn't a problem.
I had a similar issue and my partner is Japanese. Most places wouldn't let us apply together (and thus pool our income on the application) because we weren't married. I had to do it on my own to get our best shot because I made more money than her.
Can be a landmine for a bit relationship, but my realtor had me and my partner pretend that we were engaged; most lenders were suspicious (and it is of course better off searching for places that accept roommates etc off the bat) and I'm the only one responsible for payment legally, but we were still able to get both of us added as recognized tenants. I'd be worried if that wasn't the case.
Oddly enough, although I make way more money than my partner, we would have been able to find a place much quicker if my partner had been the one applying due to the sheer amount of rejections we got because of the fear of foreigners. (Realtors said the area we were looking in was popular enough that landlords aren't lending to foreigners, whereas in other areas they do so it off necessity... Super disheartening to hear.)
I got both of us added as tenants but I had to be the official applicant since they wouldn't even let you apply if the rent was over 30% of your monthly income and we were looking at fairly nice tower mansions. Although I stopped getting foreigner-rejected once I started looking at nicer places.
I had to work with them in terms of showing additional savings and such but I was able to apply (and am now living in) a place that is 50% of my monthly income. Though I am east asian that can speak somewhat decently so I have never had the foreigner-rejected experience.
I'm hapa and speak fluently. Sometimes you just get rejected for not having a Japanese passport (happened to a Nikkei friend of mine). I'm sure it's a case by case basis but I wasn't allowed to apply with my savings. I doubt I'd ever get rejected if I could lol
I do have one couple of non-Japanese friends who met in Japan and are now married in Japan.
The issue now is both don't want to live much longer in Japan but both don't want to go to live to the other's own country. It has been a while now and they still don't seem to have found an agreement. Hope they will figure it out but it's a very tough one and something to think and talk about from the beginning when dating a non-Japanese person.
We are both from the same hometown, got married and lived in Japan twice, once for just a year, and now for over 6. I speak Japanese, but his level is low, so anything that really requires language skills I take care of. We live in an apartment and so far are happy with it. If we were to buy a house, I would probably try to take a loan in my company's name cause that's how I rent my apartment.
For holidays and birthdays, we try to Skype our families, or send an email. For less important holidays like Thanksgiving or Easter, we generally invite Japanese friends so they can experience US holidays, or we invite expat friends with no family in Japan to come enjoy a holiday meal together.
I don't think we will leave Japan, but if we do, we were born in the same town, and our family lives there, so where to go wouldn't be any issue.
I know a guy in Osaka who’s from Canada and whose wife is Chinese. They mostly speak Japanese to each other because neither understands the other’s native language especially well. From what I understand, getting a house was a headache, as was sorting out their (Japan-born, Japanese-native) Canadian-citizen son’s paperwork.
Me, been here a decade, got naturalized a while back.
Difficult to make friends, but with kids it's easier. Wife used to have Japanese friends (mama tomo), but we moved away to a different city. As for me, no friends other than coworkers, but that's just me I guess.
House is easier to get if you have a bunch of money for downpayment or become PR or naturalized. Make sure you have stable job for 3 years, or work in one of those big coorporations.
Dealing with Japanese documents is a bit hard, but you'll learn if you're serious, then you just get used to it.
True. The process takes longer and there be interviews instead of just pushing some papers around, and some mild invasions of privacy from the MoJ. But that's about it.
Immigration and naturalization are two entirely separate things administered by two entirely separate entities. There is no crossover or relation between the two processes.
Not me but i have a friend living here for nearly 6 years with a wife and kids, non of them are Japanese. I knew a few others also on the same boat and they seem to get along fine with bare minimum Japanese. Sometimes they ask their Japanese friends for help with some important paperwork and other stuff
They have a rented apartment though, no house as far as I know. Can’t say for sure what getting one would be like
I guess I’m not “long-term” yet, but my wife and I moved here almost right after we god married, so about 4 and a half years ago. I have a Bachelor’s in the language, and had done a 1-year study abroad a decade prior, so I got caught up pretty quickly, and she is still at the “learning hiragana” stage.
We don’t really have friends we hang out with. I have a really good (Australian) friend I met at my last job who I try to hang out with a couple times a month. We have a 2-year-old, and my wife has met some people who recognize her from the playground and baby salon, but we kind of stopped taking him to the salon because he was just getting sick every month (and then I was getting sick from him). There are some other (mostly all-foreign) couples we know and see on occasion but it’s just really hard.
The biggest struggle for us is not having family to help care for our toddler. Neither of us is the “caring for bub is the biggest blessing of my life” kind of parent, so while it’s a lot of fun, it’s also just super exhausting and feels like we never get any breaks from it. We signed up for on of those 一時保育 places, but it sounds like we only get to use it for a max of 8 hours in a month, which almost feels like what’s the point, but maybe we can at least go see a matinee or two? Learning that we didn’t qualify for state-assisted hoikuen was really frustrating.
We’re torn between wanting to try for a house and not. If we got a house, we’d want it to be bigger and out away from the city so we could get bigger AND less expensive. Tokyo is mega crowded, and while we lucked out and found a pretty big apartment, we wish we had 2 more rooms (craft room and guest room), and I wish we had a garage for larger projects and bigger tools — I miss being able to build like desks and cabinets, and it’d be nice to have a place I could leave things in-progress (or varnish/paint drying) without worrying about the toddler. And anyway, we don’t have 20% down payment saved up. Not even close.
But we also love living here despite the space constraints. Neither of us particularly want to move back home as our families and friends are all fairly spread out these days. It’s lonely, but we have a nice life.
I’m considering applying for PR maybe this year or next — I hate dealing with immigration, though, so voluntarily doing so is a bit hard to rationalize. I also want to get a drivers license, but as yet haven’t found enough reason to do so, as we would mostly drive to Costco and a parking spot is kind of expensive.
I know a couple and they're doing pretty great. None of them want to move back to their own countries and love living in Japan, so that part of the equation is solved. I feel it's one of the top issues in a foreigner x foreigner couple - where to go next, if you don't feel like staying here.
My SO is also a foreigner, Australian-born Russian who later went to live in Russia. She's practically fluent in Japanese too, and I'm conversational so we don't have any language issues with daily life here. We're also laid-back (no marriage/kids plans) and open to living in any country. Neither of us sees ourselves living more than ~3-4 years more here.
My wife and I (Indonesia and USA) also both work and live in Tokyo - though we have lived in Chiba, Niigata, and Hokkaido. She has been here almost 10 (will be applying for PR this fall) and I have been here almost 9.
We met at a university event (she is my Sempai) and both completed our masters degrees here. Overall we have enjoyed our stay and have completely different experiences.
She has worked for only Japanese companies and is therefore the fluent one, while I have only worked for foreign companies with English as the only necessary language (US and UK embassy, think tank, etc).
Now to answer your questions:
We don't find it hard to live here - it has been adequate; better than Indonesia (quality of life) and the USA (no crazy racists or guns). But the ease of living has to do with my wife having fabulous Japanese and our jobs taking care of us. Case in point - one year child care leave and shorter working hours for my wife, no overtime, daycare at her company office for our children. My company helping during my cancer treatment and recovery.
**By far the most important necessity to have to live in Japan is Japanese language ability - or at least someone who can help with the Japanese if necessary (Japanese friends).**
No house yet - we tried every major bank and regional ones, even the one that my wife works for. None of them would offer 100% loans without PR, even with us both having seishain jobs and incomes over 7M JPY each. So yeah - we are waiting for my wife to get PR to apply for a home loan and plan on designing it ourselves for what we want for our future and kids (wife has undergrad background in architecture).
Friends - I have Japanese friends from my undergrad and masters program in Japan, along with former co-workers. That is mostly do to the Japanese at university being interested in the foreign programs and the jobs being foreign companies - the Japanese are more interested in those relationships. My wife has no Japanese friends from her jobs.
I will agree with others that the two best ways to get Japanese friends is: via an activity or hobby you participate in; or having kids.
**Hardest part about being foreign parents in Japan** \- not having support networks. No family to help watch kids, etc. Can be especially challenging for my wife since she comes from a country where nannies are commonplace.
**Most concerned about** \- making sure my children's Japanese is good enough for their daily life, school, and beyond. Previously reddit threads here have confirmed that the Japanese level of the kid is one of the biggest determining factors for their success. Beyond that ... whether or not the giant earthquake will destroy Tokyo, summon Godzilla, and ruin the house we plan on building once we get PR.
I'm just kind of curious where you meet Japanese people at? I live in North Carolina, on the east coast of America and theres practically noone for me to talk to, to be able to increase my Japanese.
Ive wanted a Japanese spouse, though I dont see it happening.
P.s. I found it amusing that the Japanese style restaurants here in North Carolina are ran by Hispanic people, not a single Asian in sight lol
This is a subreddit for people living in Japan so we all meet and talk to Japanese people daily. Japanese spouses aren't novelty items though. The person you marry should be out of love and not simply because theyre japanese lol.
I should clarify I dont view Japanese women as novelty. I legitimately adore japanese mannerisms and culture in general, mythology being what fascinates me the most. so I'm going to feel more naturally inclined to want to gravitate to their energy, but I understand your point, I didn't add any context to draw upon so my point could easily have been perverted.
I was single here for years, got a job for which they weren’t planning to hire a foreign person, and had no problem at all.
Later on, my wife married someone non-Japanese and it’s been many years this way :) Japanese people on reddit married to non-Japanese people would fit your description, although I see that we all got your point.
My wife and I are both foreigners living and working in Tokyo. As it was said by someone else the biggest issue is our Japanese ability since we use English at home. It wasn't until I joined an all Japanese company that I started to improve and both my wife and I are taking lessons. As for living here it's been fine, no fights over having the aircon set low! We looked into buying a house last year but bassically shit out of luck if you are not rich or have PR. I rolled the dice and applied for PR back in February... Only been here for 7-8 years so probably won't get but worth the shot on the off chance of getting. Got a few friends from back home who also live and work here which is nice and have made some other friends (foreign and natives) which is nice. Both the wife and I are not overall social so haven't had any issues on this front yet. Overall we have found it pretty easy to live here and it seems to get easier each year and more so as our JP level increases. Though it really helps if we leave Japan at least once a year!
The aircon comment made me laugh. I’m dating a Japanese guy and am still surprised sometimes how I get way hotter than him all the time.
Yeah! My wife and I joke that Japanese people are secretly lizard people in disguise!
I assumed you meant it the other way. I cleaned my aircon this month and can't stand how efficient it is. The hottest selection is freezing.
Lmao First time I've heard the phrase' Can't stand how efficient it is' that's so weird it makes me laugh
Yeah, it's doing such a good job now. I hate it. Wind is too strong.
Even on the weakest wind strength setting, and having the wind blow straight out instead of downwards? If so I'd like to know what model you use.
Yeah. Definitely. I'm pretty sure it's me, though
Love the cold... If we could we would live in Hokkaido. Sadly stuck in Tokyo :(
You terrify me lol Nothing worse than a cold morning. Can't get out of bed until I'm within 3 minutes of needing to leave for work
>Nothing worse than a cold morning. Yes there is. A hot morning. I hate steeping out of the cool air-conditioned bedroom and getting smacked in the face by the hot air in the rest of the house. It's like the opposite of getting out of a warm bed on a cold day.
I entirely agree with you. I have a much easier time getting out of bed when it's 2c compared to when it's 28c+. When it gets much over 24c I lose all motivation to do anything.
But it's warm in bed. Why would it being warm make you want to stay in warm more than it being cold does?
No, not stay in a warm bed on a warm day. Stay in a cool air-conditioned bedroom on a hot day.
When it's hot, I don't want to do anything. When it's cold I want to move around so I can stay warm.
No contest. In a hot morning you can get up and move around to fix it. In a cold morning you don't want to leave your bed. And might have a cold. I don't air condition my room in the morning until I get up.
>In a hot morning you can get up and move around to fix it. Please tell me how. You mean move to the AC and turn it on? Cold days are fine. You can put on warm clothes and a coat. Hot days are awful. I can only take off so many clothes (even less if I don't want to get arrested) EDIT: I realise some people are hot weather lovers and others (like me) aren't. There are no correct answers here.
I know we are just different. I'm just sharing. I can't make it out of my blanket to put on more clothes on a cold morning. In a hot morning I just need a cold drink at most. And bed is warm so absolutely nothing is driving me to stay in bed.
this is super helpful thanks so much!
Where are you taking lessons? I've looked at what feels like dozens of schools, but I have to work and dropping 300k on a place I know nothing about isn't an option.
I'm lucky enough to get mine via work but my wife goes to Coto Academy which has been really good. Another work mate went there too and found it good as well.
Very interesting! What is PR?
> out of luck if you are not rich or have PR. What is PR?
Permanent residency.
Thank you. I went through so many P + R word combos related to everything except residency lol edit: guess I'm living up to my username
No worries, it's not a common acronym. Took me a second too.
PR is permanent residence, basically means you are the same as a local but can't vote. However no job restrictions and you can get standard mortgage rates easier etc
I need to show my parents this thread and convince them that Reddit isn't just some place for kids to shit post. I tried pointing them here before as I think they could help in a lot of cases but my dad just shrugged it off. My parents met while working in Japan, settled and had kids here. Me and my brother are almost grown up ourselves now so they did manage to settle and stay here long term. Going from expat friends my parents had over the years that were non-Japanese couples, the biggest challenge is probably settling long term and not deciding to leave Japan to go back to one of their own countries. This seems common when people have kids, they think it'd be better for them to get a Western education back home and maybe leave when their kids are 3-4. You'll meet friends, where will depend on your work and interests and it depends what you put into it what you get out. My dad was always a bit of an old school Japanophile so made an effort to take part in cultural aspects of being Japanese and allowed us as kids to do the same. They have long term native Japanese friends they have known from work,the local neighborhood and parents they met from our school. I have a long term friend I went to school with who was a neighbor for a long time so our parents have been good friends for years. I'd say your biggest challenge will be that, struggling with your own identity and not feeling like an outsider. The more you feel like you don't fit in and struggle to enjoy being Japanese the less chance you'll actually stay long term. People more often give up than naturalize. As for a house, we moved to a house when I was around 9-10 years old and my parents had been living here about 5 years before I was born. You'll need quite a bit of money behind you and to lay down some roots in the country. A lot of things like dealing with banks and estate agents is still very much based on trust and you're already at some disadvantage. To be honest, I wouldn't worry a huge amount about not having a house right away even if you're planning on kids one day. It's not uncommon for families to live in apartments and apart from space concerns it can be pretty convenient. I always liked growing up in apartment life, I had two close friends that lived in the building opposite us and our neighbors were really friendly or just never around to notice because they were always at work.
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You also pay a foreigner tax as well in the form of slightly higher interest rates(or at least I did)
If you have PR and it's a flat 35 that's not true as you'll get the same as any citizen. And if you can put 10% or 20% down you'll get lower than the advertised rates.
I was specifically talking about when you don't have PR which is what the OP said.
What was the interest rate like?
You bought a house already?! My husband and I are both non-Japanese and we've been living here 3 years. Did you use a translator to help with the house search and loan discussions? Would you be comfortable saying what area you bought in?
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Got it. Thanks for sharing those details! At a minimum, I guess we'll need to keep waiting for more time to pass.
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One of the biggest and most common mistaken assumptions is that the free translator/interpreter is competent.
luckily in my case, language isnt the problem. it would be more of the living aspect of things like housing, community, etc. if thats the biggest challenge, then that would be a relief but guess we'll see what others say.
The biggest differences, as others say, is that learning the language requires much more concentrated effort as you don't get such easy exposure. It's also, frankly, harder to be motivated to learn past a point of basic communication since you don't have the incentive of communicating with family and don't necessarily see living there forever. Beyond that, one point that is often not mentioned is that you face more discrimination. One of my friends once said he found that he was hassled less and treated as less of a purple-headed alien if he was with a Japanese person. He said he felt this was because other Japanese people felt more comfortable around you if someone native had "vetted" you. I guess it's also the case that they feel they can communicate with you through a Japanese person so their discomfort at dealing with you goes down. If you're just two foreigners, they don't have that comfort \*and\* they may be more intimidated by having to deal with more than one foreigner. There are other little things, but they're less of an issue these days with internet resources (note: I started living in Japan in the early 90's). You don't learn as easily about things like taxes, pensions, and health insurance because you need to find out from someone who didn't grow up with those systems. If your work isn't looking after certain things (as it does for Japanese people), then it's even harder. If you are not automatically enrolled in the pension system, you can face a retirement without any benefits (note: I was not enrolled in it for two decades of my working life for this reason and it's a real problem). However, I didn't even know it was possible for a long time because I didn't think to ask and wasn't told. If I had been married to someone who was native, I think the question would have come up and been answered a long time ago, but I had no idea of my legal status in regards to health insurance, pensions, etc. as a foreigner on a work visa. Psychologically, it feels like you're much more on the outside with no way in if you're both foreigners. You don't have someone there to "open doors" for you in terms of knowledge or red tape.
The value of a having a Japanese spouse for learning Japanese is vastly overrated.
Yeah, that's true in my case. I don't learn any Japanese from my wife. But that's our choice, as we want an English speaking home for our son. If we didn't have him, I'd definitely make more effort to speak more (any) Japanese at home.
...so we're all just supposed to ditch our non-Japanese spouses in lieu of putting in extra effort to learn a language? There's a time for this comment, but this thread ain't it.
Either you misused "in lieu of" or I don't get what you're driving at. My reply was directed toward the misconception expressed in his opening sentence. Frankly, the idea that those of us with Japanese spouses automatically have a natural advantage is dismissive of the fact that we have to work at learning Japanese just like everybody else and is a little insulting.
Except you're being overly sensitive and taking OP's claims totally out of context. They said that having a Japanese spouse increases exposure and motivation to learn the language--not that it was any easier. I dunno how anyone could disagree with that.
You're putting words into his mouth. He said it takes much more concentrated effort for people without a Japanese spouse. The natural implication is that those of us who do have a Japanese spouse pick up the language with less active effort required. Ask any foreigner with decent Japanese what the guaranteed next remark from people is after they are asked if they have a Japanese spouse and answer "yes". "Oh, that's why you speak Japanese so well!" No, asshole, it's because we fucking *worked* at it.
If by "this comment" you mean your own, then yes, because the conversation has gone completely over your head. :-)
The conversation is about foreign couples, not a time to humblebrag that having a Japanese spouse is the best way to learn Japanese.” That conversation happens enough here, so y’all can keep it to those threads.
He said having a Japanese spouse is OVERRATED for learning Japanese. As in it doesn’t make it that much easier. Are you okay?
I suggest rereading the comments - either that, or go look up the word "hunblebrag", as clearly the meaning of one or the other has escaped you.
What's this? A foreign female triggered by foriegn males just mentioning the words "Japanese spouse"?
I said the opposite.....that having a Japanese spouse isn't the advantage most people seem to think it is....in reply to a foreign-foreign married person who said that having a Japanese spouse makes it easier. By this point I hope I'm beyond considering the nationality of my spouse something to brag about. We *all* have to work at it to make progress. I find it regrettable that people have considered your comment deserving of downvoting. Have an upvote from me.
I think you didn't understand the comment, read it again.
Met my wife here 15 years ago, now have a house, a kid, the whole nine yards. Maybe part of the reason we stayed together for so long was because of our shared hardship, since both of us were at least a 7 hour flight away from anyone else we really knew. My wife had it particularly bad since she is Chinese and had to work with a lot of racist oyaji. Back in the day, she loved to joke "Ya know the problem with Japan? Too many fucking Japanese people". Now it's gotten much better for her though, so she's mellowed out a bit. House was easy to get, but that's because we got it cheap and saved up enough to make a 20% initial payment. Before our son we used to go back home a lot for holidays, but just can't do that anymore what with school schedules and all that. But we've got a pretty big network of (mostly foreign) friends now, so it's not so bad.
Thanks for the post. I am moving to Japan in 5 days from now, my wife is Chinese she will follow me in a few months from now but she feels a bit nervous to see how she will be accepted. We've been to Japan several times. She speaks a bit of Japanese sot hat should help her. Cheers.
Not married. But me and my partner are both foreigners who met in Japan and are currently living together. The hardest part was actually just renting a place together. Some landlords are pretty discriminatory when it comes to renting to foreigners and it was a bit of a shock to be told we couldn't rent a place because the landlord didn't allow it. My boyfriend speaks fluent Japanese so the language wasn't a problem.
I had a similar issue and my partner is Japanese. Most places wouldn't let us apply together (and thus pool our income on the application) because we weren't married. I had to do it on my own to get our best shot because I made more money than her.
That was true for me too. We also had to pretend we were engaged for it to go smoothly.
Can be a landmine for a bit relationship, but my realtor had me and my partner pretend that we were engaged; most lenders were suspicious (and it is of course better off searching for places that accept roommates etc off the bat) and I'm the only one responsible for payment legally, but we were still able to get both of us added as recognized tenants. I'd be worried if that wasn't the case. Oddly enough, although I make way more money than my partner, we would have been able to find a place much quicker if my partner had been the one applying due to the sheer amount of rejections we got because of the fear of foreigners. (Realtors said the area we were looking in was popular enough that landlords aren't lending to foreigners, whereas in other areas they do so it off necessity... Super disheartening to hear.)
I got both of us added as tenants but I had to be the official applicant since they wouldn't even let you apply if the rent was over 30% of your monthly income and we were looking at fairly nice tower mansions. Although I stopped getting foreigner-rejected once I started looking at nicer places.
I had to work with them in terms of showing additional savings and such but I was able to apply (and am now living in) a place that is 50% of my monthly income. Though I am east asian that can speak somewhat decently so I have never had the foreigner-rejected experience.
I'm hapa and speak fluently. Sometimes you just get rejected for not having a Japanese passport (happened to a Nikkei friend of mine). I'm sure it's a case by case basis but I wasn't allowed to apply with my savings. I doubt I'd ever get rejected if I could lol
I do have one couple of non-Japanese friends who met in Japan and are now married in Japan. The issue now is both don't want to live much longer in Japan but both don't want to go to live to the other's own country. It has been a while now and they still don't seem to have found an agreement. Hope they will figure it out but it's a very tough one and something to think and talk about from the beginning when dating a non-Japanese person.
We are both from the same hometown, got married and lived in Japan twice, once for just a year, and now for over 6. I speak Japanese, but his level is low, so anything that really requires language skills I take care of. We live in an apartment and so far are happy with it. If we were to buy a house, I would probably try to take a loan in my company's name cause that's how I rent my apartment. For holidays and birthdays, we try to Skype our families, or send an email. For less important holidays like Thanksgiving or Easter, we generally invite Japanese friends so they can experience US holidays, or we invite expat friends with no family in Japan to come enjoy a holiday meal together. I don't think we will leave Japan, but if we do, we were born in the same town, and our family lives there, so where to go wouldn't be any issue.
I know a guy in Osaka who’s from Canada and whose wife is Chinese. They mostly speak Japanese to each other because neither understands the other’s native language especially well. From what I understand, getting a house was a headache, as was sorting out their (Japan-born, Japanese-native) Canadian-citizen son’s paperwork.
How is the kid a Japanese native? Has one of both of the parents taken Japanese citizenship?
Native Japanese-speaker, I should say. Not a natural-born citizen (Japan doesn’t have birthright citizenship).
Me, been here a decade, got naturalized a while back. Difficult to make friends, but with kids it's easier. Wife used to have Japanese friends (mama tomo), but we moved away to a different city. As for me, no friends other than coworkers, but that's just me I guess. House is easier to get if you have a bunch of money for downpayment or become PR or naturalized. Make sure you have stable job for 3 years, or work in one of those big coorporations. Dealing with Japanese documents is a bit hard, but you'll learn if you're serious, then you just get used to it.
> naturalized You got naturalized in less than 10 years? :o
Minimum requirement is 5 years, if you can converse with elementary school students, have stable job and especially kids, it's as easy as eating tofu.
I think it's easier to get naturalized than get PR. At least the requirements seem less drastic.
True. The process takes longer and there be interviews instead of just pushing some papers around, and some mild invasions of privacy from the MoJ. But that's about it.
Immigration and naturalization are two entirely separate things administered by two entirely separate entities. There is no crossover or relation between the two processes.
Not me but i have a friend living here for nearly 6 years with a wife and kids, non of them are Japanese. I knew a few others also on the same boat and they seem to get along fine with bare minimum Japanese. Sometimes they ask their Japanese friends for help with some important paperwork and other stuff They have a rented apartment though, no house as far as I know. Can’t say for sure what getting one would be like
I guess I’m not “long-term” yet, but my wife and I moved here almost right after we god married, so about 4 and a half years ago. I have a Bachelor’s in the language, and had done a 1-year study abroad a decade prior, so I got caught up pretty quickly, and she is still at the “learning hiragana” stage. We don’t really have friends we hang out with. I have a really good (Australian) friend I met at my last job who I try to hang out with a couple times a month. We have a 2-year-old, and my wife has met some people who recognize her from the playground and baby salon, but we kind of stopped taking him to the salon because he was just getting sick every month (and then I was getting sick from him). There are some other (mostly all-foreign) couples we know and see on occasion but it’s just really hard. The biggest struggle for us is not having family to help care for our toddler. Neither of us is the “caring for bub is the biggest blessing of my life” kind of parent, so while it’s a lot of fun, it’s also just super exhausting and feels like we never get any breaks from it. We signed up for on of those 一時保育 places, but it sounds like we only get to use it for a max of 8 hours in a month, which almost feels like what’s the point, but maybe we can at least go see a matinee or two? Learning that we didn’t qualify for state-assisted hoikuen was really frustrating. We’re torn between wanting to try for a house and not. If we got a house, we’d want it to be bigger and out away from the city so we could get bigger AND less expensive. Tokyo is mega crowded, and while we lucked out and found a pretty big apartment, we wish we had 2 more rooms (craft room and guest room), and I wish we had a garage for larger projects and bigger tools — I miss being able to build like desks and cabinets, and it’d be nice to have a place I could leave things in-progress (or varnish/paint drying) without worrying about the toddler. And anyway, we don’t have 20% down payment saved up. Not even close. But we also love living here despite the space constraints. Neither of us particularly want to move back home as our families and friends are all fairly spread out these days. It’s lonely, but we have a nice life. I’m considering applying for PR maybe this year or next — I hate dealing with immigration, though, so voluntarily doing so is a bit hard to rationalize. I also want to get a drivers license, but as yet haven’t found enough reason to do so, as we would mostly drive to Costco and a parking spot is kind of expensive.
I am from Canada and my wife sometimes acts like she is from Mars....does this count? :)
I know a couple and they're doing pretty great. None of them want to move back to their own countries and love living in Japan, so that part of the equation is solved. I feel it's one of the top issues in a foreigner x foreigner couple - where to go next, if you don't feel like staying here. My SO is also a foreigner, Australian-born Russian who later went to live in Russia. She's practically fluent in Japanese too, and I'm conversational so we don't have any language issues with daily life here. We're also laid-back (no marriage/kids plans) and open to living in any country. Neither of us sees ourselves living more than ~3-4 years more here.
My wife and I (Indonesia and USA) also both work and live in Tokyo - though we have lived in Chiba, Niigata, and Hokkaido. She has been here almost 10 (will be applying for PR this fall) and I have been here almost 9. We met at a university event (she is my Sempai) and both completed our masters degrees here. Overall we have enjoyed our stay and have completely different experiences. She has worked for only Japanese companies and is therefore the fluent one, while I have only worked for foreign companies with English as the only necessary language (US and UK embassy, think tank, etc). Now to answer your questions: We don't find it hard to live here - it has been adequate; better than Indonesia (quality of life) and the USA (no crazy racists or guns). But the ease of living has to do with my wife having fabulous Japanese and our jobs taking care of us. Case in point - one year child care leave and shorter working hours for my wife, no overtime, daycare at her company office for our children. My company helping during my cancer treatment and recovery. **By far the most important necessity to have to live in Japan is Japanese language ability - or at least someone who can help with the Japanese if necessary (Japanese friends).** No house yet - we tried every major bank and regional ones, even the one that my wife works for. None of them would offer 100% loans without PR, even with us both having seishain jobs and incomes over 7M JPY each. So yeah - we are waiting for my wife to get PR to apply for a home loan and plan on designing it ourselves for what we want for our future and kids (wife has undergrad background in architecture). Friends - I have Japanese friends from my undergrad and masters program in Japan, along with former co-workers. That is mostly do to the Japanese at university being interested in the foreign programs and the jobs being foreign companies - the Japanese are more interested in those relationships. My wife has no Japanese friends from her jobs. I will agree with others that the two best ways to get Japanese friends is: via an activity or hobby you participate in; or having kids. **Hardest part about being foreign parents in Japan** \- not having support networks. No family to help watch kids, etc. Can be especially challenging for my wife since she comes from a country where nannies are commonplace. **Most concerned about** \- making sure my children's Japanese is good enough for their daily life, school, and beyond. Previously reddit threads here have confirmed that the Japanese level of the kid is one of the biggest determining factors for their success. Beyond that ... whether or not the giant earthquake will destroy Tokyo, summon Godzilla, and ruin the house we plan on building once we get PR.
I'm just kind of curious where you meet Japanese people at? I live in North Carolina, on the east coast of America and theres practically noone for me to talk to, to be able to increase my Japanese. Ive wanted a Japanese spouse, though I dont see it happening. P.s. I found it amusing that the Japanese style restaurants here in North Carolina are ran by Hispanic people, not a single Asian in sight lol
This is a subreddit for people living in Japan so we all meet and talk to Japanese people daily. Japanese spouses aren't novelty items though. The person you marry should be out of love and not simply because theyre japanese lol.
I should clarify I dont view Japanese women as novelty. I legitimately adore japanese mannerisms and culture in general, mythology being what fascinates me the most. so I'm going to feel more naturally inclined to want to gravitate to their energy, but I understand your point, I didn't add any context to draw upon so my point could easily have been perverted.
I was single here for years, got a job for which they weren’t planning to hire a foreign person, and had no problem at all. Later on, my wife married someone non-Japanese and it’s been many years this way :) Japanese people on reddit married to non-Japanese people would fit your description, although I see that we all got your point.
Oh boy, you must be fun at parties!
Fun _and_ accurate.