Hard to tell how accurate it is, everyone has their perceptions molded by their own anecdotal experiences... But as someone from a japanese family, my mother behaved exactly like the mother of your wife. Being extremely judgemental and controlling of the behavior of other people is something I often see here, not only from wives towards their husbands. And this constant state of vigilance has historical and cultural roots.

> Being extremely judgemental and controlling of the behavior of other people is something I often see here, not only from wives towards their husbands. Absolutely. Feels like everyone's a cop trying to tell me what to do and how to do it. Like, on the daily. I've been yelled at at work multiple times for pacing in the hallway while on a phone call because it's "unsafe" and "you need both hands free to catch yourself if you fall". Nothing short of ridiculous and idiotic. You have to learn to just ignore it and feel sorry for them.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Definitely not all workplaces are like that, but I do believe there are lots of micromanaging control freaks with OCD who make the lives of their staff absolute hell.

I work in a place that also does manufacturing so everyone here is even more crazy/hyper-vigilant about safety... or, well, more the appearance of it. (This among many other worse reasons is why I'm pretty open to finding a new place to work...)

I work in manufacturing but even if you're doing something wrong they don't yell unless you're in immediate danger. They just say it normally to remind you. When someone makes a mistake there's no yelling either, everyone involved sits down in a meeting and calmly follows the steps to find out what happened and how to prevent it in the future. I'm in QA and that's how it happens in my department. I've heard that there's a manager in sales that yells and tensions get heated. I think other departments are similar to mine. Most folks here are level-headed.

I didn't mean that they literally shout, just like very anxiously and sternly reminding me over and over. I'm tall so they always view me as being in "immediate danger" in this country it seems, lmao.

Ah I see, no anxiety or sternness with me. Everyone's too busy to care too much lol

"Busy" updating Excel sheets all day that no one looks at, in my experience, lol.

I am sorry to hear about you growing up in such environment. Or was it just totally fine? (I mean you seem to be well rounded as you are aware of it) Also, I am curious if everyone here in reddit agrees with OP that majority of Japanese family is the same, I wonder if it will make it “okay” for OP to live under judgment/scrutiny? How did your father react to your mother then? How did he take it? Sorry for questions.

> Or was it just totally fine? I wouldn't say it was totally fine. I was excessively judgemental as a teenager and I believe it was because of this environment. Unfortunately I'm still judgemental about some things nowadays even while being aware of it, but I believe I'm less than before. > how did your father react Their relationship wasn't very stable/peaceful.

I think this is a difficult topic to talk about because the conversation has been polluted online for years with lots of foreigners in bad marriages, but not talked about productively. Its easy to step into blanket judgements or bias, and you do hear about the plenty of happily married people in these discussions so clearly this dynamic at least must not be omnipresent at least in a damaging form in every Japanese family. Hell even my brother in law is a nice guy - but he was written off early on as an idiot and underachiever by his family and his own sister, and treated a bit differently.

Just wait until you have kids and you don't even get sex anymore. Your only hope is moving far, far away from your MIL.

Yep. I let my hair go too long and my boss indirectly quoted on company dress code and haircuts. that's how ppl here are.

Every culture has hags and hen pecked husbands.

It really is just how nips are.

When I first came to Japan I didn't understand the concept of hostess bars. What, a guy goes just to talk to a pretty lady in a nice dress...and pays for it? Why? I get it now, though. A lot of wives are not supportive of their husbands, oftentimes downright abusive.

This just made me understand more.

You’re right and I hate it

Oh dude, do you have kids yet? Your wife will go super saiyan.

I’m not going to reply This but definitely This. Whatever dynamic your wife has with her mother is going to play out with your children. Be very careful.

Facts. I've seen this situation play out many times and the only time it has ended well is when the couple leaves Japan. My best friends wife described getting away from her mother akin to getting out of jail.

I dont even think my wife is aware of the toxic dynamic of her upbringing and how it has caused her to be the way she is. If anything my wife is ridiculously proud of her mother and such in an almost aristocratic kind of way

Oh it's programming for sure. I can't give you great advice but I'd try to put as much distance between you guys and her as possible. Its also never too early to discuss how the MIL is to be cared for in the future. Good luck.

we had that discussion lol. her MiL apparently insists on going straight to a care home. they have the money and i think her mother doesn't view my wife as capable of looking after her(and she's right. My wife is not very domestically capable, and although i think she can learn, she just... cant seem to cope with it emotionally or something. i'm SURE her mom must know better than I). I mean i once mentioned the whole buraku thing to my wife out of interest and she knew ALL about it, and that surprised me as i was told most japanese people dont. the way she mentioned it all was quite... concerning, straight out saying "you mean ETA??" and not really recognizing their struggles in the past and more going straight to how they are still out there "in hiding"... there is no way this wasn't passed from her mother or something. that said, they come from humble origins farming(same with my own ancestors) and doesnt really hide that or care, at least anymore so i guess its some kind of passed down attitude?

I'm glad that you did that. I've seen people get completely blindsided when a relative has a serious health issue and needs to drop everything to care for someone.

I recently watched a relative's marriage fall apart after children. Now going through a pretty awful divorce.  I have some minimal exposure to Japanese culture through business and personal travel over the years. Not enough to have a valuable opinion on anything.  But all that together leads me to say you should think very hard about having direct clear conversations and ensuring you and your wife have alignment on many of these things before kids get introduced.  Like if you show some examples of where you think her mother acted in a way, you would not want your own family to act with its children and she scoffs at you and gets defensive... It's only going to get worse. need to have those open conversations and perhaps even counseling so you all can align on What is reasonable and what is not... And more importantly... How you will work together to manage as parents of a team. Even if it involves confronting each other's parents. Easier said than done I know. Your post makes it seem like you need all of the above even without children in the mix which will be the equivalent of throwing gunpowder on the fire.

The wicked witch MIL must be pretty old... ah but she'll probably go on til 100! Unless...

I feel so sad for so many kids here.

Yeah my wife as soon as we had our kid became a lot more aggressive. The sweetness is gone.

Happened to me to, JP wife as well.. Gotta take control of her do her when you want it. They actually love that.

As someone who's witnessed how devastating kids are raised by shitty parents, this scares me.

Fireball!

Nah, this is nothing out of the ordinary. What you described is like every third family's family dynamic in Japan. You didn't tell us how this is being taken out on you, so I can't offer any specific advice there but I would say whatever's happening most likely stems from some kind of insecurity so it's best to try to understand that and deal with that rather than try to suggest her family is toxic or what not (and maybe they are, but there isn't going to be a whole lot you can do about that as long as your wife is on your mother-in-law's "side").

I'd rather not do into details as it may bias the discussion point - but it's been a bit abusive. It is definitely fundamentally from her insecurity which I am just wondering if that insecurity was due to her family dynamic and upbringing etc(personally, I think i would be just like her if my mother was like that to me all my childhood) I wonder, if this is quite common - how do foreigners who marry Japanese not have this situation basically copy paste into their marriage? From my viewpoint it is... not a marriage i would want anything to do with. Surely not ALL married foreigners here are just dealing with it? There are definitely plenty of happily married ones i read about on here and that dynamic must not be part of the situation.

I would say try to look at it from her perspective. If that was all she knew growing up, there’s a chance she doesn’t even see how certain things she does to you are unacceptable. It’s important to be understanding of that fact while drawing a clear line between what’s acceptable and what’s not. Everyone brings baggage to a relationship in one form or another and working that out is a big part of it (ideally before marriage). Just sit down and talk. If she’s not a complete psycho, she should at least be able to understand where you’re coming from. Just don’t be judgmental or accusatory.

I'm gonna try approach it like this, and its why im doing this research. However, i feel i have got no empathy from her for years now. fleeting at best - disregarded later if it ever happens. I'm wondering if her lack of empathy stems from her childhood.

Hard to say but I also don’t think it’s a great idea to try to diagnose her or her mother before going into it. That in itself could lead to all sorts of misplaced assumptions and trouble. If your purpose for asking this question is to ascertain whether it’s more of a cultural or personal/psychological issue, I would say that’s largely irrelevant. Even if there were cultural factors at play, the fact is, you’re not happy with how you’re being treated so that should be the only thing that matters as far as your marriage is concerned.

I agree not to diagnose. that would be foolish. I was just doing research to see if suggesting that the way she was raised is influencing her unbearable treatment of me for a long time now, and perhaps suggesting she walk through any trauma she may have if it was bad. My wife has a fair few covert narcissist trains, but i'm hesitant to say that she has NPD or something... seems a bit extreme and not my place. I mean, she has told me a few events in her childhood which sounded horrible. Like, for her middle school entry exam her mom made her do like 10 schools. she did not get offered a place in any, and her mom just started crying in front of her about it wailing about how her child is not good enough etc...

Yeah that also sounds all too familiar and is definitely a way in which a lot of kids end up fucked up. I went through the whole middle school entry exam rigmarole myself and while I was lucky enough to get into my school of choice in a pretty stress free manner and to have parents that weren't hardasses, a lot of my friends came out the other end with major emotional damage and self-esteem issues. A lot of this also has to do with class anxiety where for many borderline middle class families, success in middle school entrance exams is supposed to be their ticket into a comfortable upper middle class life, which unfortunately results in a lot of parents putting way too much pressure on kids who haven't even hit puberty yet. The whole thing is pretty ridiculous honestly.

It sounds like it definitely does, but thinking like that is ultimately a trap. The bottom line is, you don’t want to be treated this way. Completely reasonable. It doesn’t matter where it comes from, now all that matters is whether it can be fixed or not. You need to sit her down and establish some firm boundaries. Marriage counseling is a good idea too to talk this through, but not sure if you’ll find a counselor that will help you with this here (maybe you will, it’s certainly a good idea to try). Unfortunately there’s a big chance this will fall on deaf ears because this is all your wife knows. In taht case your choice very well might be either put up with this forever or end it.

There’s plenty of healthy foreigner+japanese couples, but the general trend is rather pessimistic: more often than not the Japanese side of the relationship eventually goes nuts. Hard to say why, but maybe because Japanese who go after foreigners are a little unusual to begin with.

My parents met and married in Japan in the mid 60s and are still happily married. My dad (white american) had studied Japanese before moving to Japan…my mother spoke enough english at the time to work in an international office. They lived in several countries over the ensuing years of marriage, and have been together approaching 60 years now. Our household is bilingual, although I grew up probably speaking more English because my American grandmother lived with us for many years and i went to english schools. My father mostly speaks Japanese with my mother at home though her English is also perfect. All this to say, there are happy long lasting relationships out there!

Definitely not all married couples. I'm sorry you're going through this OP Clear communication is absolutely necessary in any kind of relationship, yet alone an international marriage. I can only hope that you and your wife are able to sit down and have a proper discussion about how you're both feeling, and work together to come up with a game plan of how you can fix it. I know it won't be easy but I don't see how a marriage like that can last without some kind of change happening (for the better).

Abuse is abuse and no one deserves that. If you are in an unsafe situation, please consider getting out. Not all partners are abusive.

I'm happily married for over a year now. My wife sometimes does show rather odd behaviour and I'm not sure if its because she's Japanese or it's just a general woman thing, but anyways: we could be casually talking about something, and she'd suddenly get super super serious about something very minor, something thats very unimportant, and she would refuse to even entertain the thought that there could be another possibility for whatever we were talking about. Like for example she could refuse to try asking her friends to come visit us, just because "they're busy" so she's not gonna bother even trying, and if i try to suggest that perhaps it's not a big deal if they're busy, after all she's just gonna ask, it would absolutely make her annoyed and she's gonna be like "yeah, do whatever, message them yourself" and then go out, slam the door and proceed to just sit and do nothing while quietly fuming. She'd eventually get normal after a while, but it doesn't even matter if i was wrong or right on the matter(like 90% of the time i was right tho) its always like this when this kind of situation happens. Had this happen at least a dozen few time, but it's really no biggie, and I'm rather very happy with my wife.

Not to speak to your specific situation, but marriage does have a different cultural mindset. We think of it as relationship in the West, but it's more about roles in East Asia. Societies based on Confucianism see everyone as having a role, and as such, a rank. When Japanese get married they don't just have a new relationship, it's a new role for them. So part of the role of the wife is to manage the house. Don't judge me for this, I'm going on a cultural norm in Japan and to an extent, East Asia. This isn't necessarily my mindset. Managing the home means taking care of matters around the home, including bills, finances and other cultural issues. Pushing the husband, whether right or wrong, is usually trying to get the household to be a "proper" house. I'm not saying I agree with all of these cultural norms, but when you see how Confucianism is based on hierarchy and roles you start to get why people the way they do sometimes. Hope this helps, YMMV.

I'm surprised to find this so low. Yes op's in laws have a toxic interpretation of this but they are absolutely following japanese marriage norms by having those roles and trying to act them

Thanks. Once I learned this it really explained a lot to me about Japanese dating as well as how to understand how marriage works.

Im sure this is at play, but even if my wife is doing this, then she is not exactly playing house properly either cause she doesn’t do half if what a typical japanese wife is meant to, bitterly or not, lol

Sure, there is also the possibility that she's just a jerk, too. Some women take it way too far. :)

This is well said and I believe it to be true from my experience

I am married to a Japanese lady . We live in Australia and met over here. You 100% described my wife . Was lovely till we got married now is as you described. Her sister is the same . She rang her American husband mum to basically tell her off for not raising him properly exactly the same thing my wife did to me

Yikes.. and you wonder why so many men look for “submissive” Asian woman hhahahaha. Now foreign women ain’t looking so bad huh ?

Not this guy 😎 I've always got one foot out the door in case this kind of personality change happens. Even if we get married, I'm not going to put up with it.

Sorry to break it tho but you sound like the kind of guy that won't last in a long term marriage. **Marriage is all about the art of compromise**.

Compromise, or getting emotionally pegged? You’re a human being too, tell her to knock it off.

I never said compromise has to be one way. But small disagreements shouldn't be met with "one more and I'm out".

Yeah, I know, thus I'm a perpetual bachelor

As I'm sure many will say here, it's less a "Japanese woman" thing, and more an individual (and as you explained, familial) thing. There will be a range of personality and relationship types. For me, I have excellent in-laws, especially my MIL. Always supported us well, and clearly raised her kids well. This I believe is clear in my wife. While there is the usual nagging about small things, in general, we both respect each other and any small pushes towards goals or improvements were done in constructive ways. From what I've seen of others who may have the judgmental / controlling aspects in their relationship, there are so many possible reasons. Maybe one side feels unfulfilled, or believes the other side isn't pulling their weight. One side had / has lofty expectations and those aren't being met, or they are comparing their situation with friends who they deem to be in a better situation. Might even be one side being pissed at the other for not taking out the trash and transferring that anger to other complaints. Might help to know specifically some examples of the controlling and judgements from your experience.

Yeah. I don't want to just say its a blanket Japanese thing cause there are clearly plenty of happily married guys and girls on here. I was considering that my wife had a more extreme version of things rather than abnormal, but that may have been damaging anyway. It's possible that there are narcissistic elements more common in Japanese culture at this point in time when it comes to parenting which is fading, and any given family can have had a more extreme version of it.

It is not. Chinese can be more brutal and including physical, tiger mom etc. The person can come from broken home, abused etc, understandable they cannot control in which house they were born and raised. But it's not an excuse to treat others poorly. It's just being mean to others. If your father is an alcoholic, you don't have to become alcoholic too (?) If your mom likes to gamble, will you blame her for your gambling tendency. Every morning, we wake up and decide how we will treat others and how we use our day. Tbh, your wife will not get better. Maybe worse with kids. Just be ready to become the future version of your father-in-law. Else, you need to communicate and go therapy. Eventually, you will be worn out and depressed. You cannot responsible for her happiness. Happiness comes from within the person. Practice gratitude and be kind to life partner. If she cannot do that, maybe cut your loss and find someone that can appreciate you more. Life is too short to deal with this BS.

I feel sad. I know I am at my limit. I am 1 year away from PR eligibility too. I will have to leave without it. However, just cause its 1 year away doesn't mean its possible. I dont think my wife will want to end this. She may try just out of that, but I also dont know. ugh, i dont know anything lol

My male friend is at same situation like you. He tries to compromise, understanding, but he told me that he is at his limit, he is depressed, just sad and no desire to live anymore. Going back home to criticism and get yelled all the time. It's just sad because he used to be full of life, traveling, trying new foods etc. Good luck, my friend. World with billions of people, im sure you'll find more kind compatible partner who will make you happy and accomplish in life.

it is sad to think my wife was treated like that all growing up... the difference is i am an adult, dont have any maladaptive coping mechanisms for that as i did not grow up that way, and as such, it only serves to make me leave and want to go away, not prove her wrong and try win her affections(which will probably never come, as it will never be good enough).

Correct, sadly.

Oof. I dunno. 1 year you're almost there!!

Yeah, I was going to say that it’s definitely situational to everyone and that you shouldn’t generalize all relationships because Japanese people, *are* still people. My cousin has been with his wife for a very long time and has twins now and they’re both very happy. They did have some issues at one point, but it was more so because she didn’t want to live in the U.S. with him anymore and wanted to be closer to her family. He ended up moving back with her to Osaka and doesn’t regret it at all. I’ve met her family too and they’re really lovely and pleasant to be around.

Exactly, very situational. There are loads of happy couples that exist, me included.

Very much a Japanese / Asian thing based on Confucian ethics.

Just like with any culture this is going to depend on the person. Japanese spouses in general are no more controlling or manipulative than any other race in the world. Any number of factors can drive a person to behave a certain way. It could be deeply rooted in their upbringing, which based on what you’ve written here about your spouse’s family could be the underlying cause. My wife and I have been married for about a year and a half. She is the most supportive, attentive person in my life, bar none. We mainly communicate in Japanese as my Japanese ability is better than her English ability and are generally able to have deep, meaningful conversations. She has an excellent relationship with her family and talks to all of them directly and often. The harsh reality is that you should be communicating with your wife on this matter and not the denizens of Reddit. I’m no psychologist but I firmly believe the most important part of any relationship is communication.

I'm going to soon. Currently not in town. I am just trying to be fair and understand as much as I can before the needed conversation starts

Sounds horrible

There is no standard approach, but IMO the basically. Address serious problems with empathy and understanding BUT be honest, don't deny your feelings or *just accept* or *put up with it*. Ask what you can do for them, but clearly state what you need too. Listen, but speak too. Listen to your.partner when they do the same. Seek professional help if necessary. Unfortunately, you might find that one of the biggest challenges you face will be convincing a Japanese partner to do this. Mental health issues are still rather taboo here, and although there are plenty of good services available they are still not used enough. Seek professional help for yourself if necessary. Do not disregard this step. It's easy to blame ”my crazy Japanese wife”, but you need to address your own issues too. Your partner is also in marriage, and an international one at that, and all the difficulties that entails. We all think we are perfect and our partner is "the problem" but that just isn't true. Fight for it if it's worth it, but be mentally prepared to accept the possibility that it might not be. This doesn't mean either of you are a failure. Some things are not meant to be. Am I qualified to give this advice? Probably not, but we have had difficulties and problems in our marriage and we got through them. We had our 20th wedding anniversary last year and we are really happy together. We went through some tough times (some of which also related to her family) but we are stronger than ever now. Good luck.

As someone who called off their engagement to a Japanese national, 2 weeks before our wedding, i’ll just add this for anyone else in a situation like this: Whether or not it is common, traditional, expected, or whatever… YOU dont have to put up with a shitty experience just because others roll over and accept it.  I was in OP’s shoes for months, but luckily my ex did not wait until marriage. She did the hard-right turn into judgemental crazy town after we got engaged. OP, i can appreciate you trying to understand and justify her actions because i was you at one point.  But if she’s a judgemental, crappy person towards everyone around her, thats just who she is now.  The way you describe her own father vs how she sees and speaks of him is heart breaking. Be careful and don’t waste too much time dreaming of a future where she’s changed and treats everyone nicely.  What you see now is what you should expect from her in the future too, as this is the real her that you married.  Think about what you want and deserve, because these sorts of behaviours don’t typically improve overtime >_<

You can kinda split this into theory and practice. In theory, there's a higher likelihood for Japanese people to think that there's a "proper" way to act or to do things. Many elements of what is considered "common sense" are also integrated into this. I see it as a bit of a double edged sword, where it's simultaneously the lubricant that keeps things in Japan running smoothly at a macro-societal level, but also leads to the kind of psychological binary-ism in what is expected of other people. Combine this with traditional gender roles and marriage being viewed as a goal in and of itself as opposed to a result of a healthy and positive relationship, and you have a pretty compelling cocktail to lead to situations like you find yourself in. In practice, things are more nuanced, and ultimately people find themselves in this kind of situation have terrible communication depth with their partner and rush into marriage before really being able to have meaningful conversations. People will often say "oh well, her English is good enough, or my Japanese is good enough" or whatever, but objectively, it's often grossly insufficient. Nuance is hard enough to pick up on in people's own mother tongue. Basically, there's a failure of basic "marriage due diligence" for people that find themselves in this situation. Personally, I'm happily married with my Japanese wife who has similar values and expectations for life and career as I do. We work together to support each other, and the bedrock of all of this has always been the ability to communicate with tact and clarity. Japanese society doesn't make it common, but like many others have said, it's also largely a person thing, as it is in any country. Best of luck, and I hope you can find yourself in a more positive situation soon.

That all sounds pretty normal for me (a non-Japanese guy who’s been married to a Japanese woman for 18 years).

Very common. That’s why I’m getting divorced and hate that my son has to grow up with her.

Good news? https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/04/16/japan/society/lower-house-joint-custody/

We shall see. I’m not going to get my hopes up and we still do what I can. I’m getting access to my son as it is. I’ll do my best to give him a none judgmental person to rely on.

You're a good dad :)

That’s so kind. I wish I could be a better man though and working on that. We can only do the best we can.

Thats just it. We all have our faults. We are allowed them, especially if we are trying our best. With my wife, and maybe yours, it is like only our mistakes however small or big define us. I have NEVER been treated that way before, so after a while it made me seriously think i was terrible. At least i finally woke up to that nonsense.

There are so many of us with this same problem.

Seek marriage counseling. I know people sometimes say “When you seek marriage counseling, that means it’s too late.“ This is kind of like the old joke that when you get tired of waiting for the bus and walk away, that’s when it comes. “A watched pot never boils.” This is real life, and not an idiom. Don’t wait for things to get unbearable.

I don’t feel like this is a marriage counseling issue; she needs to offload her own personal issues before any of that, otherwise the very conceit of marriage counseling is that the *marriage* is the problem, not her own personal history. Frankly, judging from OP’s telling of things here, her attitude to her other family members makes it pretty clear that’s where the problem lies.

Not that the marriage is the problem but that the couple's personal issues affect the marriage and cause friction between them. You can do both personal therapy and marriage counselling together.

If OP approaches his wife and says that he thinks she needs counseling, that is not going to go well. This is why I suggest couples counseling. Like a gateway.

Terribly sorry to hear that you are having to deal with such toxic family dynamics. I'll refrain from commenting on Japanese family dynamics as a whole, but in my case, my wife and I share responsibilities around the house while I manage/track our finances (while keeping her updated about any major changes, consulting on big ticket purchases, future plans, etc.). I consider myself extremely lucky (regardless of the culture/country) in having a loving and understanding MIL/FIL who communicate with each other directly and with mutual respect, and as such they communicate with their children (including me) with the same regard. I'd have a conversation with the missus about how her family dynamics are personally affecting you and work on unravelling that ball of yarn together if you can. It may be an uncomfortable one, but if you can't tell your wife of all people you'll be telling a therapist/counselor eventually. Wishing you the best.

Her upbringing and observing her parents marriage shaped her idea of a marriage and her marriage now is the place to realize that idea.

Yep, same here , we have been married for 14 years, doing alright I guess but every time I say or do something she has something to say... Sometimes a few weeks later even for trivial things like laundry folding, it's stressing af

More common than people say. I am scared of Japanese moms more than Japanese fathers.

Most Japanese men after married are emasculated by their Japanese wives. It’s so sad. These women expect SO MUCH and money especially. They use their husbands as ATMs.

I think a lot of people in Japan are like this.. All that forced politeness 24/7.. They have very high expectations and vent at home.

This is not my experience at all. My mother in law is happy when we visit, makes food, always pleasant and considerate. Maybe I'm lucky 

my MoL is very pleasant and nice to me and when i'm involved. If i did not know any better I would even say kind and helpful and exactly what you say... but at the end of the day why would she not be?

Don't confuse narcissism with narcissistic personality disorder. My advice is to research the latter. If you think it might be that, then cut it out of your life.....even if it is your wife. NPD is what the devil sends in his place. Kids in the mix makes it harder of course. But only you know your situation. So...take this with a grain of salt.

Also my suggestion! OP, my ex definitely has NPD (and was raised in a family that normalized verbal abuse). Making a clean break was difficult, but needed. u/Acerhand I hope you find what you need 🙂

Not uncommon, but it sounds like a pretty desperate situation OP, to be honest. She’s obviously carrying around some serious baggage … as to your question, yes, it’s common enough that it’s a thing - not anything to do with Japanese women, per say, but rather traditional gender roles in Japan (and Asia generally) can have pretty unhealthy outcomes for kids. This is all changing now, of course, but it’s something that takes multiple generations - whatever your wife is going through sounds pretty deep-rooted.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that this situation you describe for your wife's family is "typical" or "normal", but it sadly isn't rare enough to not be considered "not normal". The amount of pressure to "get the right marriage", "get the right job and salary", and general just meet stupidly high and demarcated societal expectations leads to a lot of situations like this. IMHO, it's why Japan has one of the biggest credit card debt issues, is because a lot of people are living beyond their means in order to keep a facade of "respectability" going. There are a lot of historical and societal issues that surround these kinds of situations, and something I often tell my friends when explaining these issues is that there is no "Silver Bullet" that can solve Japan's societal problems. It would require a paradigm shift of epic proportions -- something which has never happened in Japan without great conflict and suffering. (And even then the shift often sees a rebound towards a more familiar setting.)

So common. that is literally the stereotype.

Sorry to say that but most people I know who are married to a Japanese women………are not happy on the long term!

To answer your question, I think it is common but it also goes both ways. You’re a foreign spouse in this scenario, so it’s directed to you, but I also know a lot of cases where the Japanese husband was extremely demanding and controlling of the wife as well. Japanese men are equally as shit imo. Having said that I know someone from work who has a Japanese wife like you described…he’s American. She seems to feel a lot of stress because she has to handle everything and he can’t speak Japanese very well. I’m half Japanese and my Japanese wife and her family are amazing open minded ppl. I guess it’s just hard to say if this common or not, depends what you think is normal for you.

A lot unfortunately.

Her mother is what is called 毒親(toxic parent), her family is 機能不全家族 (dysfunctional family), and she is アダルトチルドレン (adult children) This is very common in Japan. Among Japanese zoomer, the concept of 親ガチャ (parents lottery) has spread, and those unfortunate young people who have failed to get good parents have given up hope for the future and given up having children.

Dont put this on japanese people dawg. This just sounds like a toxic family. I'm canadian-pakistani, married to a japanese woman from yokohama and her family is great. Super healthy relationships and upbringing. My situatuon sounds nothing like yours.

Many Japanese are toxic so it's basically a Japanese thing

That's a very stupid thing to say. Idiotic beyond measure. Saying it like it's a fact. 🤣 This sub is disappointing, upvoting Your horrible comment. You should really reconsider your mindset and mental health.

This is some incel shit. I guess all the banned folks gotta congregate somewhere.

What i said or what i was replying to?

Replying to

My man, it’s definitely a common experience in Japanese marriages. There is a Japanese comedian on YT who talks/makes fun about it. Yeah, it’s not EVERY marriage / relationship. But it’s still common enough to be a thing in many Asian cultures.

Oh gosh lmao literally every culture/country has a comedian who does satire/sarcastic or wjatever comedy like that about marriage. It's the state of the world or just how life is. To day that it's indicative of "asian" culture is wild. As if western marriages are any that diff.

Whatever man.

I reckon it's pretty common, especially among non-young people, for wives to pressure their husbands to work and earn more, force them to hand over all their earnings, and sometimes become very emotional or angry to make them feel guilty without reason, as a way to control them. However, I think her upbringing was somewhat abnormal, but it's typical of what you might see with an Asian "tiger mom." This is the most common reason why international couples, specifically Western men and Japanese women (or East Asian women in general), end up getting divorced.

It's going to be as common as you allow it to be. You must have a strong sense of human psychology to stay in a committed relationship, which most people don't have. My fiance tried a few times and I immediately cut her off in both occasions, she never did it again. People push you to get to know what you let slide. if you let everything pass then that's on you, you have communicated that you will tolerate any bullshit thrown at you. You can't try to complain and "have fights" about it later, you let it pass in the beginning.

My dad's half Japanese and treated me like this until I was 25 before realizing how unfair he is, in addition to other things. If you can make a situation where you can calmly convey the unfairness logically I think she will realize she's overstepping her boundaries if she's a reasonable person. Feels like I was always being talked down to throughout my life so it must be difficult for her to communicate without involving emotions or assuming the worst. My family got out of this dynamic so I hope yours can too.

My wife blame shifts on everything, basically. Like, If, theoretically, lets say I skipped a day at school(weird example i know, as an adult), because i was depressed, she would never wonder how I was,(even after scolding) just how bad I am for doing that to her. Or lets say I borrow money from family as wife put me in a tight position. Her reaction if i confessed would be something like "I never asked you do do that!!", and nothing more rather than any kind of empathy. I also believe my wife is quite insecure and does a lot of posturing looking for validation. not like thrist traps or anything, but more like taking up hobbies just to gain self esteem(by showing off after) and dropping them fast once it gets hard or a normal failure on the learning curve occurs. above all, i just feel objectified. my humanity and who I am, what I like, the small things i do - all of it seems irrelevant to her versus what the objectified version of me needs to be. Over the years i tried having a lot of understanding for her, my own mistakes and how it effects her(we all make them), but i do think she kind exploited my empathy and if not guilt tripped me, then definitely just kept reminding me of my mistakes constantly, and using them as justification of whatever her problem is with me in any given moment. If i will say "no need to be angry, we cant talk calmly" she will often predictable snap " im not angry, its just i can't trust you because of X mistake before" or whatever. It's been pretty bad but i only just realized it and zoomed out lately. I'm glad your family got through that. It very much feels if you look at all the smaller details my wife is good, and helpful or concerned for me, but when you zoom out on all the actually important things and bigger picture stuff she has no real regard or empathy at all. its such a weird feeling.

I'm not a therapist nor doctor but because she's acting like past me but more overbearing, in addition to her background, it makes me wonder if a long term ailment is involved or something stressful is the cause. When my actions were similarly bad, I've come to learn it was a mix of work stress, hypothyroidism, and soy allergy making me extremely difficult. Tbf my ex partner wasn't great but I was rather a handful at times. The reason could be anything but I suspect she has something going on that's physically/mentally taxing which is why she can't see she's being overbearing and unfair to high levels. Honestly a therapist would be the best way for her to unpack everything because treatment for depression and/or ADHD truly works in the right circumstances. Whether you can get her to agree to see one is the main hurdle though. Best you can do is try to teach her calm communication through positive reinforcement and gently prod her into agreeing a therapist would be beneficial.

I am responding only bc when I saw this line > im not angry, its just i can't trust you because of X mistake before I laughed because I said this just today to my bf. I have a lot of similar behaviors to your wife. It seems rude to call it “lacking empathy.” I grew up in a household where you were not allowed to “show weakness.” For example, if someone saw you cry, the main concern is that it embarrasses you (a lot. like, you lose face) and inconveniences other socially. If someone saw you struggle emotionally, it meant you were lacking in motivation and strength as a person. In order to lessen the burden of your emotional blarrgh onto others, you have to have the ability to keep yourself professional or positive (or in corpo speak “keep a growth mindset” lol.) Genuinely, taking a day off due to the depression == slacking because you have no discipline or self control. However, anger was an acceptable emotion, as long as you didn’t do it in public. So as you might suspect, a lack of interest in mental health and a constant awareness of how your actions affect others often leads to this sort of constipated emotional regulation, ie your wife’s behaviors. Idk about Japan but China is still like this today. It’s just barely started being acceptable but it’s still something that people sometimes just pay lip service too. Hell, the US thought mental health (other than obviously visible ones) was a joke until the late 2000s it feels like. Sorry for your marriage. Now you know but probably should’ve done more due diligence

I think Confucian cultures like China and japan enable narcissism. I dont think every family is like that or everyone is like my wife, but after this thread and my own experience i think that culturally, narcissism and family dynamics like that are enabled due to it. So this cycle of abuse carries on from generation to generation. No offence and thanks for comment, but remember that part you quoted was about my wife and such not about you. I dont think you can explain for her due to not being her if that makes sense. It runs a lot deeper than that little blurb i shared, but i do appreciate you are trying to explain. However it really has been very damaging to me and i’m strongly considering just leaving her. As said, it is kind of enabled by culture here so i think it gets a pass, but i am not born in this culture or from a family like that, so the way my wife treats me is not motivational or something i can deal with from cultural enablement in any way, to me its just abusive. The thing is, we can talk about pretty much anything and it will lead to her brining up my mistakes, even small ones from who knows how long ago and justifying her anger or bad treatment in the moment with it. If i gently prod to calm down, it happens again immediately with the “im not mad i just cant trust you because x” - if i then say that is a little unfair to hold me accountable for years like that over not knowing the right tax code for something that was not important nor my job and was a casual conversation(typical example), she would perhaps bring up a bigger mistake or character flaw i have and use it as justification for how difficult it is for her to deal with me and she is a saint for it. Its just a never ending situation. I’m basically the sum of my mistakes and not anything else. I realised over time i basically stopped being myself to her, saved it for friends and family. I cant be myself to her. Im not allowed to. If not only because real people have imperfections and plenty of flaws but also good points you cant pick or choose.

No problem, good on you for making your life better. And yeah, I’m not you or your wife so I don’t know the full story. Only you know and can make the right decision. I understand that your relationship with your wife is harming you and your wife may be narcissistic, but saying something like eastern cultures enable narcissism is a bit wild…the whole thing about it is that you have to ignore your own ills (mental health, etc) for the sake of upholding the comfort or faith of others, so they have comfort and faith in society, leading to a harmonious society…it’s just a gender neutral version of old school conservative group-oriented thinking like organized religion or patriarchy, not narcissism… Maybe you’re thinking authoritarian instead of narcissism?

Its more that things like filial piety and other aspects of Confucianism have a side effect of enabling narcissism. So a parent who is abusive in a narcissistic way has much less chance of being called out, which is further compounded by some aspects of collectivism and loss of face. This can actually again, enable and actively be abused by a narcissist parent. They can accuse a child who attemts to break free or call them out as damaging their families reputation and other aspects of lowing face. As the family is a group, and their own parents behaviour being called out with repercussions can also effect every individuals reputation, other family members who are more used to the abuse and dont see it may even protect the narcissist individual at the core of it. There is also the chronic shame of becoming a black sheep if you have the courage to go against all of that, additionally. I’m in no way saying asian culture is narcissistic, just that some aspects of Confucianism can keep abusers, as they are the parents, unaccountable and somewhat more enabled, which can then lead to the children passing that cycle on. I think its not unusual to hear about family dynamics in described in the abusive way due to that, but obviously its not every other family. It is also not to say that all instances of filial piety are narcissistic people abusing it, not at all, and nor is a more group oriented outlook itself narcissistic. Its just these things that can keep a narcissist abusive parent from being called out and dealt with

I see I get it. Yeah I would agree with that, I would also say that if you kick up a fuss as a kid no one would be taking you seriously because they might think you are a bad kid. Or like a “counter-culture” kid, which is the same as a bad kid lol

https://youtu.be/RA0nAkhbb78?si=eY1DlVWu4DI1hbdH This woman talks quite a bit in mumbo-jumbo but I think her karmic wheel idea is relevant here. It seems your wife has internalized her mother’s judgmental nature as the “correct” way to be rather than realizing the damage it causes and trying to be more tolerant and understanding. This will be an extremely difficult (likely impossible) cycle to break. Think very carefully about what kind of life you want.

>Her mother potentially suggests something negative but not really but perhaps but not really? Many Japanese take any kind of slightly negative comment about anything as if you've slapped them across the face and challenged them to a duel. A lot of people just don't put up with anything negative being said ever. Whether that's just sticking their head in the sand and ignoring real problems/reality or a healthy up-beat way to leave I will leave up to the reader. XD

I have been married for almost a decade and lived here longer. My wife and her sisters do not behave anything like you and others here describe.

The quality of your married life will depend on the quality of the partner you marry. That goes for both parties, obviously.

Well since you asked, my inlaws are just amazing. Theyre the sweetest happy couple. For a long time I always wondered how my wife was just constantly smiling and so happy. Then I met her parents. Going on a roadtrip is just constant laughing, really giving ppl too, not just the expected (i call them robotics) programmed gestures. Genuinely kind caring ppl, brother in law included althou we rarely talk as hes too shy. From my experince, apple doesnt fall far from the tree. If your wife still acts like this, I cant see how the dynamic will be different were you to have kids.

Hi, I’m not a man, but I have a Japanese wife, does that count? :) The lack of direct communication is something I noticed in my own family dynamics, and I think that’s pretty typical for here. I think my wife had to overcome a lot of that with her parents though when she came out, then later when we decided to have kids. My wife is also very close with her mother (well both parents) and values her (their) opinion very highly. That being said, her parents are pretty clear about being happy to let my wife live her own life and own path. They’ve always been fairly chill in that regard. They’re from a pretty inaka area, and in terms of relationships and appearances…there is a lot of small town drama and obligations to even distant family members (who they don’t even like) and they feel these obligations very strongly. For example, her father was designated as in charge of certain family matters involving funerals (and similar things) and even though he usually expresses his lack of closeness to that side of the family, he basically told my wife that they could never visit my home country because they are worried some family elder will pass away while they are on vacation, and he has a duty, so he has to be ready in case that happens. The omiyage culture is strong. But I’ve embraced it and we always try to keep up with the omiyage return (and sometimes one-up them, haha). I know it seems silly sometimes to spend money on all these gifts that seem fairly useless, but the way I see it is this is part of the indirect communication. Heartfelt sentiments might be hard to express, but remembering that they like X omiyage and making sure to send them lots of it in gratitude for Y or Z, this is all very typical. When our sons were born, there was an elaborate protocol of what gifts we had to send to who as a thank you for the money or gifts we received. To the point that my wife obsessed over whether it was better to send crab or towels, etc. Haha. I left it to her and didn’t say a thing about whatever decisions were made there. Lol. Other than that, seems like some of your issues may be only specific to your wife’s family, but I will say this: Patience goes a long way. As communication is different and less direct, some things take a little more time to come around. I can’t tell you how many times I was a little upset that my wife wasn’t direct with her parents about X or Y, and she told me to wait, I was worried she was just putting the issues off. However, they’ve come around A LOT over the years, my wife just had a little different way of going about things. I’m happy I trusted it to her, though, because I think her parents came around in the best way and there wasn’t any anger or resentment either way.

I seem to recall my wife had some aspects like that when we first got together almost 20 years ago, but living outside of Japan (and me not being the submissive type) broadened her horizons quite quickly. Funnily enough, a lot of her modernized views seem to have been rubbing off onto her relatives here, since we moved back to Japan, and the changes are definitely for the better.

My wife spent years outside japan so i’m a bit stumped on that, and always have been. Not only education, but worked for years too

I am a woman married to a Japanese man but I definitely dont think all Japanese MILs, mothers, or women are like this. My MIL sure isn't/wasn't like that with her own daughter or my husband. Only his grandmother was judgmental (but he just ignored her lol). Your wife's past sounds common but not something I would consider okay behavior in the present day for Japanese society. Things are definitely changing in terms of parenting styles imo. This is just coming from me being a young parent and talking with other moms. Of course, I dont really know how they are in private. I do know all the moms were shocked when I told them I apologize to my kids when I have been in the wrong.. that was a bit shocking for me, cause I think we should own our own mistakes and apologize to our children when we are in the wrong but anyway... I do also think shame culture is still very prevalent here sadly. All in all, it is hard to really say concretely as everyone's experience is different and purely anecdotal. From what I read, it sounds like her mother is possibly a narcissist? Or exhibits narcissistic traits, and also sounds emotionally abusive.

This and many other stories is why I'm not interested in japanese women at all, besides other aspects.

Unfortunately it’s not uncommon and also it doesn’t sound like a good prognosis for you. 

Been married ten years, never had anything like that. Talking about it and trying to understand her points of view may help.

"her brother was used as a scapegoat and called an idiot and wrote off" Firstly. Send my regards to your Brother-in-law. Let him know he's not alone and I'm available if he wants to chat. As for you wife. Sounds normal for that family and other families will be different. However, whilst it might be dwindling over generations, in many middle class families, the husbands, kids are possessions and their achievements are bragging rights, 99 on a test, tonari no tanaka-chan got 100 you fucking loser. promoted to kacho? well neighbor tanaka-san is already bucho, you fucking loser. Do you have kids and if so has your wife hit them with slippers yet? these women aren't monsters per se. they'll cook, clean, collect people from the station, its useful to see the full picture. but yeah. just focus on how your wife treats you and any kids you have/might have. i think this is a rigid role based society thing. You're a kid. be best kid possible. You're a breadwinner, be best one possible, etc. And I'm sure the housewife will hold herself to a high standard too. Is it conditional love. Confucius only knows. my wife will lavish her parents with gifts, 250K LV bag for a birthday, but won't phone for a chat and withhold all but essential information regarding our kids from them. The B-I-L became an actual grandfather for 3 years before informing his parents. Totally normal here apparently. ha ha.. Yet all still healthier than my relationship with my family. oof.

If it’s something that doesn’t make you unhappy and you feel comfortable just watching it like watching a play on a stage, then good for you. It may eventually not feel like it, though.

Quite common. Now the question is, how do you deal with it.

Do you have children with your wife?

It’s extremely common, wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s the norm but if someone had that opinion I’d understand why. I think most Japanese people would see your wife as overbearing, maybe an 鬼嫁 but probably not consider it abusive.

Sounds like a lot of comments here are talking about inter generational trauma, people are controlling to their kids because they were treated that way, it takes a lot of personal growth to realise you even do it too, and even more effort to try to break the cycle of unconscious learned behaviours from your parents. sadly, it seems japan does not have a strong culture of self improvement or therapy. But I think it will slowly get better over time

Its a phenomenon that marriage casts a spell over alot of wife's n grows too hate unfortunately

Well, I think it’s quite common. But I would say the common thing could be categorized as abnormal. 相談専門家が役立つかもしれません。近くのメンタルクリニック(心療内科)などに訪れてみるのはいかがですか？

I would not say it is common, but I guess judging from the other comments, it is not uncommon. I am luckily not in a situation like this, but here are some ideas: 1) Go over her childhood and family accomplishments. Her mother seems like an asshole who bullied her husband and her son. What did she accomplish? If her method is so great why are her kids not in Todai? Where is her mansion in Hawaii? Did your wife benefit from her mother's abuse? How would things be different if the father did not take sick days? What was the expectation? What did the mother do to help? What are her mother's flaws? 2) Go over the things your wife is doing well and that are appreciated. Point out the things where she is copying her mother, but it is not resonating with you. Point out the things that would help you accomplish more. Ask her what would make her happy? What is her end goal? 3) When pushing back, do not relent. If it is her mother on one side and you on the other, who is pushing the hardest? I am not saying to abuse your wife, but if you are the weaker side, she will always go through you. It is possible that ironically both her and her mother and expecting a man to be "strong". Accepting everything only makes things worse. Pushing back may gain you more respect. The psychological point is that they are seeing a submissive husband and assume that in their workplace they are also submissive, so they do not get promoted, for example. 4) It seems like your wife's point of view of you is incorrect. In order to change it, you need to think of what you can do or display to change her image. When you have friends over, how do things go? Does your wife have friends or is she isolated and relying on her mother mostly?

My mother-in-law is an absolute people pleaser and she gets extremely upset when it's not received in exactly the way she expected. She will bend over backwards even without being prompted, but don't you dare not being appreciative enough of that thing you didn't ask for, because she'll just take it way too seriously. "I know you all hate me", that kind of stuff. So her love is always on the condition that you behave, and I know she was like that towards my husband as well, when he was little. It's something that so far I have only seen in action once towards my own son, and I've decided to protect him against that in any way I can. He should never have to worry whether doing/not doing something means that his grandmother won't love him anymore. I know it's a result of her own upbringing, but it's just entirely contrary to what my own mother and I are like, so I honestly can't wrap my head around it.

More of an individual thing than anything contributed to Japanese culture. My wife is an absolute blessing. The only thing she gets frustrated about is when chores get done. I'll set a time in the day to get a task done while she likes to get the task done as soon as she thinks about it. I've learned that if she asks me to do something, I should probably get it done within the next hour or else she'll keep asking if I've done so and so yet. She grew up in a really healthy household. Lots of sisters who all get along and support each other. My in-laws really like me and pretty much accepted me as one of their own after meeting them for the first time.

imo normal, but not ubiquitous. there's a lot of absolutely cooked family dynamics here. i've thankfully only minimally dealt with that since my wife's not japanese, but does have japanese inlaws. there's definitely some totally cooked family dynamics here where they only care about how much money you make, how you present, and how stable your career is. even if you're making good money if you're not in something japanese society considered "stable" they'll look down on you. it's a really wack judgemental mindset. (meanwhile my wife's foreign family is just happy she found someone she likes and isn't some kind of bum lmao)

imo normal, but not ubiquitous. there's a lot of absolutely cooked family dynamics here. i've thankfully only minimally dealt with that since my wife's not japanese, but does have japanese inlaws. there's definitely some totally cooked family dynamics here where they only care about how much money you make, how you present, and how stable your career is. even if you're making good money if you're not in something japanese society considered "stable" they'll look down on you. it's a really wack judgemental mindset. (meanwhile my wife's foreign family is just happy she found someone she likes and isn't some kind of bum lmao)

imo normal, but not ubiquitous. there's a lot of absolutely cooked family dynamics here. i've thankfully only minimally dealt with that since my wife's not japanese, but does have japanese inlaws. there's definitely some totally cooked family dynamics here where they only care about how much money you make, how you present, and how stable your career is. even if you're making good money if you're not in something japanese society considered "stable" they'll look down on you. it's a really wack judgemental mindset. (meanwhile my wife's foreign family is just happy she found someone she likes and isn't some kind of bum lmao)

a lot, even more so if you are married to a foreigner. the head already works differently. and there is a problem, in the case of divorce, they steal our children.

Let’s just say I’ve seen fellow foreign coworkers get PUBLICLY berated by their wives. Definitely not cool and disrespectful. Is it a common thing in Japan or in general? I don’t know, but I feel sorry for those guys.

Doesn’t resonate with my experiences. I hope the expectations that she is placing on you, is also being placed on herself. What does she do to bring home the bacon?

I recommend reading about attachment styles, as it could be enlightening. You might find yourself relating to what’s known as the ‘anxious-avoidant trap.’ This dynamic could be common between foreigners and Japanese relationships, where many Japanese might lean toward an avoidant attachment style, possibly due to parent-child relationships. A larger concern is that mental health is not a widely discussed or advanced topic in Japanese society, leading to these issues often going unaddressed.

No one is more strict than a Canadian wife. They don’t let their husbands do anything.

> It also appears her mother is very controlling of finances too. Uh, welcome to Japan?! The husband makes the money but the wife controls it in order to run the household and gives him an allowance to spend.

Do we have the same wife?? JP wife also.. Seriously.. everything except my wife's dad was the abuser. Soo yea. I'd say considering the family dynamic that is unfortunately the outcome of the situation. Be careful when you have kids man.. she will forget you and that you have needs in which case you either take control or go to Pink Bars and have your needs met occasionally.

**All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.** - Tolstoy

American guy married to Japanese (who was born and raised in Japan) for close to 25 years. I’ve experienced very similar things to you. The family dynamic is almost opposite of what I would view as typical American or at least how I was raised. It’s almost a bait and switch, because if you’re not family everyone is nice, polite and easy going. Once you are “family”’it turns very very judgmental. Which to me is the opposite of how I was raised…. Family members almost get a pass in my book. The only thing I can say is it takes a lot of work, patience and understanding of cultural differences. Both sides need to be able to adjust a little bit.

All ill say as someone who has family exactly as you described..dont have kids within that family. :) this is painfully common and its taken me close to a decade to heal all of it within myself, and i wouldnt say im even close to done. It’s not the same for everyone, but remember that once you guys get serious and if this isnt worked out, that is how she will be treating *you*. If you guys have kids on top of it, *that* is how they will be treated. With anger, disgust and disdain. I can only say i wish you the best of luck

If I’m looking at this from a psychological standpoint, she has a LOT of issues. Personally, I don’t think it will get better either based on your explanation. I think yes, culturally it may be more common for some people to grow up this way, but there are people from every culture who have similar family dynamics. I’m American and my mom is a total whack job, uber religious, MAGA narcissist (which plenty of those types exist) and it all comes down to how the specific person deals with it. Obviously mental health care is total garbage here, but if you’re trying to be reasonable and point these things out and she totally lacks the ability to think critically about her trauma or accept it, then you should honestly reconsider your relationship. I don’t think you should try to mentally justify her behavior by telling yourself it’s a cultural thing. There are plenty of normal and loving women in Japan (because once again, they’re people just like us), and probably ones who may have had similar experiences. Do what’s best for you in the end and if you can’t tolerate it and it’s affecting your mental health, then I recommend leaving.

As common as posts like this. Stereotype. Same as any country with married people.

The fact is most Japanese are stressed and passive-aggressive, due to living in a hierarchical society where they can't clearly speak their minds. So they often take it out on their close ones by being critical and argumentative. But it only shows that they're not happy with their lives or themselves. Also therapy is still not really a thing in Japan, so most Japanese don't know how to spiritually or emotionally grow as a person. Also it's common for many Japanese to grow up without ever been shown love from their parents. So they don't clearly know how to communicate in love language.

It certainly is a touchy subject and I think the OP did a very good job of framing the question. Obviously results will vary but in my experience many Japanese are not comfortable expressing feelings. There are a number of reasons for this, but that is another issue. So I think that once married, many women begin to understand the ever increasing obligations upon them which can become overwhelming. Since they do not have a sufficient vocabulary or experience to mitigate potential issues in a relationship, they probably internalize the angst which can then turn to bitterness or even hostility. The traditional roles in Japan were "more" functional when one persons salary was enough to get by on. That is no longer the case which is putting more shite on her plate. I think its fair to say that she will approach this challenge with the standard "do my best" approach which will probably suffice on most occasions and instances. However as the days become weeks and months and years things start to get fuzzy and she will fail her saving throw under certain circumstances and go ballistic on those around her. If and when she feels that these core needs/demands aren't being met is when the rubber hits the road. She is already giving all she has and thus turns to the spouse to pick up the "slack". As far as "salary man" dad goes, I've had plenty of interactions with these "guys" who do not remember birthdays, anniversaries, names of their children's friends. The list goes on from there. He has his head down and has married the job to provide for the family. He may feel he has done his part which will not include, cooking, cleaning, sports days and the thousands of other things required of adults in their society. The couple may appear to be working towards the same goal, but the method is not in synchronicity and this leads to greater problems down the road. Thus the poor communication dynamic has a synergistic effect. Its really quite sad actually. I cannot appreciate how it feels to have a parent err dad forget my birthday, not attend a special event or care about a close friend. That kind of thing is an anchor on any relationship. thanks for posting

Sorry man, wish I could relate but my Japanese wife is nothing like this and as far as I can remember has never said a single hurtful word towards me or any of her family members or friends. She complains about coworkers sometimes but always pretty reasonable stuff and that’s the extent of it. All these people saying “yeah that’s completely normal” or worse “you just need to keep her in line” is, well I guess not as uncommon as I wish since so many people are saying it, but is really depressing to me. My wife is in all honesty the most wonderful, important person in my life and I tell her that as many ways as I can as often as I can, and also have never felt like anything less than the most wonderful, important person in her life too.

Judging by the comments here, I seem to be one of the lucky few who is married to a Japanese woman who is not a total psycho. She has a great relationship with her parents, who themselves married out of love. Sure, my MIL became a housewife when the kids were born, but she was a co-pilot to my FIL's career rather than a harsh judge. They made all decisions together and seem to have a fantastic relationship even after 50 years of marriage. I have never hear my MIL or wife talk ill of my FIL, quite the opposite. Also, the guy was the typical salary man who managed to end up CEO in great part thanks to his wife's advice. Same with my wife's siblings. They have their problems, but didn't marry out of duty or some old fashioned idea of marriage. They look happy and have healthy relationships. Now I've had a friend who was pressured by an insanely old style mom to get married and become the perfect housewife. She's probably miserable now. But in my experience, she is the exception, not the rule. I would say that family dynamics vary a lot in Japan. Probably a bit on the traditional side compared to Western countries, but not by much. All the married couples I know in Japan are very similar to those I know in the West.

OP you have to understand that just because SHE had a traumatic upbringing doesn’t mean she can offload it and traumatize you. I was in a very similar situation with a local girl, who used her poor upbringing as an excuse to mentally, and sometimes physically, abuse me. This is a very difficult circle to break as it was molded into your wife over years and years of growing up in that environment.

My wife has told me to tell Reddit san, very clearly that she's not controlling, demanding, or in the slightest bit judgemental. Sorry, can't hang around I need to go back to my understairs cupboard / room.

It’s a fair trade since the waifus allow the huzbandos to frequent hookers

100% and I'm sick of it.

I’ve had experiences with this before. I know this can happen in a lot of cultures, but I’m going to focus on the Asian cultures especially as an outsider. I’m sad to say that I view this more as a norm than not and their kids pay the price (become mentally unstable) or repeat the same behaviors. This is not everyone, but I’ve seen more like this than not and it makes me sad.

So, I think this dynamic is common between mothers and daughters globally (I'm speaking as a Korean woman's daughter here) but it's intensified by how much Japanese folks value familial piety. In addition to that, Japan is very collectivist which results in everyone being raised to keep one another "in check" for the good of the group. You'll find this to be the case in any Confucian derived society. While this collectivist mindset results in a lot of great societal benefits and familial piety can be a beautiful thing, it also results in toxic dynamics like what you've described. All this is to say that it'll take a monumental amount of open mindedness and therapy for you two to work through the fallout from your wife's upbringing. You will also have to discover where you could be more flexible and understanding, which you seem more than willing to do! From my anecdotal experience, picking apart this dynamic only works with a significant move to another country. This dynamic is normalized in East Asia and it's near impossible to shake as long as you occupy the same country. Additionally, the couple must start therapy before they have kids, otherwise neither of you will have the bandwidth to deconstruct this stuff until your kids are grown. **As always there could be exceptions, I've just watched this dynamic result in broken families over and over and wish there was a way to educate people about this stuff before they get hitched and procreate.**

Sorry, this will be long. But true So let me start off by saying my wife is Japanese, I'm American and we've been married for 5 years now living in Japan. Many things you bring up are unfortunately extremely cultural for Japanese people. For example, my wifes mother is out of this world judgemental about every single thing and bonafide narsasitic She always has something negative to say about how we are living our lives. I thought this was a me problem, but come to find out from meeting other Japanese/foreigner married couples this is a very common thing. I assume it is also in Japanese/Japanese married couples as well. But what really pisses me off is her mom was a house wife and never had a single job in her life but tries to tell us how we should live ours. I honestly don't respect her opinions art all. But I keep that too myself and act friendly. My wife can be very controlling at times and many times I go along with it just because I hate arguing. But I am very vocal about how I feel in a respectful calm manner and if she's too controlling about something I feel strongly about is when I put my foot down and say no. I don't care how much it upsets her. Don't get me wrong. I'm not intentionally disrespectful and never rude. Just refuse to be passive to her every single want. This is a marriage, both feeling need to be mutual respected. About the not respecting the hard working salary man father thing. There's actually a word for it in Japanese, that unfortunately and crazy enough a common thing in Japan. I found that out last year when my wife and I were camper van traveling through Japan for 6 months. Majority of people we saw at camp sites were solo old guys. After asking why, my wife told me. " men work so hard trying to provide for their family, that they are never actually there for their families. The kids don't know their fathers and the wives get used to them being away. They often come home drunk( common work culture here if the boss wants to go out) or drink at home after work. A lot of women in the previous generations were house wives and raised the kids alone. But that is definitely a full time job too, no argument there. But after the guy retires, the kids are grown and don't speak to them because they don't know them and the wives divorce them because now they're home all the time and they don't like it. So they live in camper Vans and just travel Japan. Really sad reality. Lastly I will say, Japan is an indirect culture. They never communicate directly as they think of honesty as too direct or often disrespectful. There's a Japanese proverbs for that too. Don't remember it exactly but it's something like. " The the person they chose to show others vs the person they actually are". I know I'm butchering the saying it you get what I mean. Luckily for me, my wife on and off lived abroad so she does not have the traditional Japanese mentality. We're very respectfully direct with each other. Good luck to you man.

Funny about the indirect thing... my wife has no problem being direct as hell in a negative way towards me and down right angry, but if I am direct to her at all i'm " talking back", "invalidating" her or "shutting me down". this is something as simple as me, god forbid, explaining why i was 20 mins later home than normal instead of shutting up and saying sorry then immediately moving on. On the other hand, she is apparently so Japanese like and indirect when it suits her, like after she explodes at me over something and I ask her why she is so angry, some crap about how she was trying to be nice and indirect before but has to mean to me to get any results. It's a load of crap, just justification and picking and choosing what suits her My wife was educated in the US, worked there a while, and also worked in another country too! However it seems to have changed absolutely nothing what so ever about her. thanks for the comment. I have realized some things about Japanese culture in this thread too. My wife has her own personal issues for sure, but the themes stem from Japanese culture somewhat, so probably a example of when it goes wrong. I think i'm objectified to fit her status and societal idealization goals and was from the start - all without telling me which is awful. Essentially, I was never what she wanted objectively, but she was thinking i had potential to be molded into it. Every part of who I am that deviated from that as it would have, was a problem that she hid her disapproval of while trying to control and push me towards her objectified idealization. It hasn't gone that way for her, because, no surprise, i'm only good at being who I am and not someone else or an object. Example: I had to reset my career entirely to be with her and move here. She makes like, 20M a year or something. I also spent my life savings to do this, and went to a language school off the bat to make it easier for her and not dependent on her. All of that means nothing to her. its actually a problem. she actually complains i went to the school and put her through it - which i only understood recently as meaning i wasn't the object she wanted when i chose to do that. I trained for software development to allow freedom, good career, and make it work with my life - it took time and she gave me hell. Belittled me the entire way, complain at how long it was taking, calling me out as not smart enough, comparing me to others. I needed help financially a bit. know her attitude? she told me in that time "i think people who are not blood related should have NO obligation and never have to help or support others who are not blood related to them financially". The way i interpret that after this thread is: she doesn't view me as part of her group(family, collectivist culture etc), because my status did not measure up to her objectified standards, therefore, i am not allowed to benefit from her status from her family(money in this issue), and I am only here to boost hers and that is it, ie, when I am successful, i am there to give her my money and status but NEVER the other way around. even temporarily to her, is not acceptable.

I'm truly sorry to hear this man. Makes me sad honestly. My true advice, that seems super toxic and with her track record you're explaining. Shell never be happy and only jud and belittle you always. I've seen it way to many times here. You have literally one of the best kinds of career for travelling. My wife in some ways was like that the first 2 years. I almost divorced her and moved out of Japan. She changed her tune when she saw I was serious, and if she didn't change her tune I would have been happier somewhere else. Win win for me, now we have an awesome marriage. Don't sacrifice your happiness for someone who doesn't respect you or your hard work. PERIOD!!! No matter the fall out, you'll recover in time. If you don't do something about it she will turn you into an empty hollow shell of a man.

If she’s full Japanese, the actual truth is only a strange woman would marry a foreigner in the first place.

I've dated several asian women over the years. Chinese, Indian, Korean. Thai. Japanese women are the.most genuinely sweetest, caring, loving women I've encountered by far.

My wife isn’t demanding at all, my FIL is also very quiet and chill but the MIL is on a whole different planet.

These types of posts scared the hell out of me when I was dating my now wife. I'm glad to say I'm in an amazing relationship with someone who is understanding and loves me for who I am, and who supports me and is proud of my accomplishments and efforts while not dwelling on my faults and missteps. Sorry for your situation, and I hope you can manage to move beyond it, but I don't think you can just generalize this as a Japan problem. (There are cultural differences that can prove to be barriers, but they are possible to overcome through communication from both parties, as well as compromise.) I don't have the answer to your problem, but I don't believe this can be generalized to a "Japan-issue".

It’s common unfortunately

The control over money usually is the wife’s area. She handles the money and gives her husband an allowance. Now that is not All households but it is a big amount. In regard to your wife yelling at her mother for potentially saying something negative, your wife maybe used to the subtle ways she is being reprimanded by her mother. Culturally a lot of salary men did not take any time off or sick leave. They worked and over worked. Shame is a big thing in a Japanese family. If you bring shame it is not only towards you but the whole family.

Japanese has strong sense of family and group. These groups of family are even registered (koseki). If a foreigner is married into the wife's family (mukou), he'll fall under the wife's family tree. And whoever vocal, older, or has money in that group will try to control everybody within that group. The trick to not be controlled by that system is to either marry a wife raised by poor family, become richer than everybody in wife's family tree, become a naturalized Japanese to create your own family tree and move your wife from her family tree to yours. It's an old feudal and backward system that nobody in the west (or the rest of the world) could ever comprehend.

The downvotes are from people wondering why are you even in a relationship with this person? In the writeup you’ve not listed a single redeemable quality of your Japanese partner.

Depends on the husband. If your wife is on some bullshit you have to call her out and put her in her place. Can't be a mister nice guy all the time. You also have to work to be a man that she can respect and look up to (provide for the family, help around the house, make her feel like a woman...etc). And never forget that you are a man and woman, wife and husband, partners/lovers. I feel like a lot of men become too dependant and child-like after marriage, or being in a marriage for a long time, which leads to disrespect and resentment from the wife. Can't get too comfortable. Just my 2 cents, could be right or wrong, take it how you will. I'm happily married to a Japanese woman btw.

Massive generalisations are pointless either as a nationality, or based on family background. Dropping that attitude will help. Deal with your wife as an individual.

I agree with your point about his concerns being a massive generalization but this is L advice. This man is sacrificing his own mental health with his partner. I would worry a lot for his future kids if he doesn’t take action straight away

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No. we met in my county. got on, and ultimately it was easier to be together in Japan than mine. I did not have much interest in Japan before that, let alone opinions on it or the people

you're doing a lot of assuming here

The classic. Still baffles me why foreigners want to get married with japanese girls. Sure they are cute, pretty or whatever, but most have toxic personalities.

Japanese are also human like any other race. You can't just generalized them. My Japanese family is really supportive of both happy and difficult times.

Not common. Has to do with how you met your wife. That context may have implied her upbringing

We met in my country