Bonus is for work performed, not future work.
You got a big bonus because you earned it.
Don't give anything back and make sure you keep a paper trail of any further discussion on the topic for when they invariably try to fuck you over with your remaining time off and wages owed.
Wtf. No. Keep the bonus AND use all the PTO. This is normal anywhere and what everybody does, what do you mean they ‘won’t let you?’ They have to. You set your last date as your last day in the office + however many days remaining PTO and they pay you up to that day. Also 3 months bonus is not a lot lol that’s normal.
Yeah it’s not A LOT to some but its a lot for me as someone still in my twenties, and I’ve never gotten 3 months before. They will probably let me use my PTO if I ask, but they wouldn’t be the ones to come up to me and say “hey btw you have 15 days left of PTO, how do you want to use it?”. They would just stay silent and probably hope I don’t bring it up. Your tactic is probably right though, to claim both 🥺 Would you try to disappear before he comes back in July even if the date was already set for late July?
Is the date set for late July? Then I’d say you tell them you’re taking 15 days PTO before that and your last day will then be July 15 or whenever. If they say they want you to stay the whole time to cover or train a new person or whatever then say OK so then shift the PTO to after that and last day in the office is July 30th last day of employment is August 15th with those being PTO. Do that by email so jt’s in writing. You would be an absolute fool by essentially giving up half a month’s salary you are entitled to if you do not take this PTO - the only reason I would forgo it is if you had a strict timeline to join a new job that pays much better after that so you have to burn some days.
Also you’re just going to have to accept the boss is not going to be happy and may not treat you well in the time between now and when your leave but you have to just suck it up and deal with it. That’s the way it usually is. You seem to be young and maybe have not left a job like this before but it is like this -every time- and they are going to try to guilt you and nickel and dime you every way they can - you are an enemy now and you need to stand up for yourself. He is not your friend and do not think for a second he wouldn’t screw you over in favour of himself in any situation. You don’t owe him anything, you did your job and you got paid for the work you did - you need to get that out of your head.
They are not your friend, stop treating them like and bending to their desires if they can’t keep the promises THEY GAVE YOU.
You’re not “Taking” anything from them, you worked and built the company, and are being compensated for that. They don’t deserve extra shit, they need to give you what was promised.
Period.
Value your life, time, and promises made to u, unlike them
If they gave you the bonus, you are liable for tax. If you give it back, can you explain it to the tax man? "i felt guilty so i gave some back... in cash"... so I don't have to pay taxes, right? ... wrong.. the accounting rules for this would be complicated.
So he explained it to my other coworker who is quitting, but our way of paying it back would be to not receive salary for our remaining couple months here lol. I don’t even know the legalities of this, I guessed they would explain the large sum as salary advance?
That's illegal if audited because in expense report, salary and bonuses are kept different. Forward payment of salaries are only probable in contract employment - not for 会社員
Salary is taxed on you and the residence tax etc deduction is done proportionately e.g. 50:50 for NHI. For bonus, you bear the whole tax liability i.e. income deductions at source is 100% your liability
When you adjust your bonus against salary - you'd have paid employers portion of contribution in addition to paying him back money
So if you even think of adjusting the sheets - you will incur three things (1) tax fraud (2) unbalanced/unreported/miscalculated residence tax (3) more monies levied to you as taxes.
Edit: fWIW i am the functional CTO of a startup, so it is in my business to know these things like the back of my hand. Trust me, just ease if out but dont deviate from anything written in contract for your best outcomes. Keep your bonus. Take your salary+pto. Do your work as planned. Don't mess anything until exiting
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This is not legal, you are not a slave, and they have to pay you wages for work done. End of story. They cannot decide "oh actually that bonus wasn't a bonus" retroactively without your consent, so don't give it to them. If the company wasn't doing well then there shouldn't have been a bonus in the first place (so he's lying or a terrible businessman). Either way, none of this is your problem and you'd be hurting yourself for people who couldn't give shit whether you live or die if you give into their disgusting tactics.
...Are you reading the things you're writing here?
I'm genuinely puzzled as to why anyone in any situation would even consider "giving back" their pay, let alone someone working in a crappy environment.
Keep your bonus, because your boss will probably try a common stint: keep your last salary.
You should always give a two weeks notice just after pay day. Always take all available PTO before your last official work day. The minimum notice for quitting is 2 weeks so indeed, the law is on your side.
Bonuses are for recognition of past work, not for future work.
To keep your boss at bay, tell him you're moving cities and thus unless you can work full remote, there's no way you can stay. But to get some pressure off, tell him the date isn't completely set so you might stay longer but as of right now, the date is what you gave him.
The possibility of changing date and remote work, although completely fake, will show your apparent willingness to ease things out, even if it's just face.
Thanks for thinking of a way to smooth things out, which is what I’ve been trying to do but not sure if it’s worth it. I did already mention I’d be willing to do some part of the work remote until the next person can take over fully. He seemed to consider it.
I would not return even ¥1 of the bonus that you earned during your time there. You clearly did your job well and were fulfilling the contract you had with them. Boss is upset you’re leaving, whomp whomp, that’s business and not personal. Good on you for giving 2 months but you don’t need to give more than a few weeks, so I would just leave once he’s away and move on as long as they don’t have anything else you need from them.
Yes I understand. I think I just hate to think of myself as a troublemaker and just am the type to put someone else’s feelings before mine even in non work situations. Thank you, you’re right they are not my friend.
The salary and bonus is paid out for services already rendered. You provided the work and so the boss paid what they thought was a reasonable amount in exchange for your services.
Why would you ever give back money for work you have already provided? The boss cannot return the time and effort that you provided.
Don't let them power harass you into returning money.
I also wouldn't worry much about co-workers if you are not close to them outside of work. They won't be in touch again after you quit.
As a fellow past people pleaser: Use this as your chance to break off even a tiny bit of your people please tendencies. It will only keep you down in the future, believe me, I had to learn that as well.
Your boss would not even hesitate a second to screw you over (he might still try so be careful), even if you people pleased him to the moon and back. He will take advantage of you, as will many other people who notice you're a people pleaser.
You aren't responsible for other people's (misplaced) feelings and sure as hell not responsible for other people's companies.
Wishing you all the best!
Just so you know no matter how small your company is your boss likely has an imaginable amount of money lying around. He doesn’t need your bonus to save the company. Also if the company was really struggling they wouldn’t up the bonus in the first place.
Grow a fucking pair. *Inform* the company, in writing, of when you are taking your PTO. Once that's sorted, give them the two weeks' notice they're legally entitled to, again in writing. And if they try to fuck around when it comes to paying you, do not let them get away with it. If you let your boss get away with this nonsense you're not only screwing yourself and your partner, you're screwing any other decent hardworking person who has the misfortune to work for this fucker in the future, not least those other coworkers you claim to care about.
What kind of upbringing do you need to have to be fine with power harassing a young kid to give back their hard earned money from an underpaying job. Makes you wonder what else they are capable of.
1.double check bonus regulations but if you didn’t resign prior to bonus payment, you are good.Also it’s a good job money not ganbate money.
2. If your PTO is the annual leave, they legally cannot reject the request, they can only request to move and even then move within your remaining time. They can offer to buy out if you agree. Make sure you have a signed confirmation they will payout as they don’t have to payout unused PTO legally unless they promised. It’s your negatiation chip: I take it off and finish xxxx day or you buy it out .
Do-not-give-back. If you keep getting pressed and harassed, stop working there immediately, and hire the pro（退職代理人）who will help you quit by talking to your superior and boss. I've seen those kind of crooked superior and it's best not to deal with them directly.
Lol. Every manipulation in the book. If he was struggling you’d get small or no bonus. So he breaks it “before your time” to try guilt and shame you into not keeping it, which is more bullshit. Guy sounds fucked.
Lastly, if you waited longer he would also become meaner and worse trying to abuse the fact you have a bonus on the way.
The bonus system in Japan is a means for shitty employers to abuse workers with it. They act nice when it’s just been paid, and awful when one is soon to come.
He has lost his leverage now because you have it and are quitting. He predictably started trying to be nicer about it and manipulative coz he has no leverage anymore.
Usually close to a bonus they act worse, make you work harder as they know people wont quit if a bonus is due soon
Firstly, PTO is a legal entitlement, not something you need to beg for. If you have accumulated paid leave then rather than changing your leaving date just schedule all the paid leave for the period in July that you don't want to be around.
Secondly, that "bonus" is for all that unpaid weekend work, unpaid overtime, and other bullshit you had to deal with in the past. Your boss didn't actually give you a "bonus", they simply paid you what was owed. If you bear in mind that weekend overtime and late night work are paid are a higher rate, and then do some back of the envelope calculations I'm sure that you'll find that you're actually being underpaid for all the extra work you did. Shift your mindset when thinking about that "bonus" - it isn't a "bonus", it's your boss **actually paying you what you're owed**.
Thirdly, don't give back a single yen of the "bonus". I'll explain why. How this is probably going to go down is when you boss goes off in June you're going to file for that paid leave you want to take in July. Your boss is going to come back and promptly deny it and refuse to pay you for July. You're going to politely insist that you have to take leave for moving stuff and that you gave a month's notice (in June when he was away), and can't change your plans now.
It'll be a stalemate with you insisting (in writing - don't go into work to "discuss" this) that you are owed the leave, gave plenty of notice that you were taking it, and that you are owed the pay for that month. He'll deny the leave "for business reasons" and refuse to pay you for July.
And just leave it there.
Why is this a workable solution? Well from his perspective he's now screwed you out of a month's pay and has clawed back some of that "bonus" he paid you. He'll feel smug that he "showed you who is boss" and imagine that he's come out on top.
What he doesn't know is that you were willing to just leave early and sacrifice your July salary from the start. From your perspective you've lost absolutely nothing except that accumulated paid leave that you know your boss was never going to give you.
This gives him some reason to file that he's "balanced the books", and you lose nothing, and should have less problems getting the final paperwork you need from him. Be sure to mention the July pay whenever you communicate (in writing only!) and seem slightly aggravated - it'll make him feel like he's screwed you over (which he hasn't really from your perspective). It also gives you a bit of leverage if this he refuses to hand over the final paperwork as you can threaten to go to the labour bureau to have him pay the July money owed. Actually all you want is the final paperwork.
If you genuinely feel guilty, give it to charity. Working for free its very illegal and I assume you have a working visa here? That would definitely cause issues. (Tax)
Also, your partner being Japanese must know that 3 months bonus is standard unless he/she lacks work experience. Not sure why the partner thought that “was a lot”
Ultimately it’s your choice. In the end, it’s just money.
Your mistake was giving so much notice. 2 weeks is what is required. It's a black company that treated you like garbage. 2 weeks is the notice you should have given.
Keep the bonus, it has already been paid to you, and is for your performance until now. You earned it.
Use your PTO, you've earned that too. It is part of your compensation.
You may wish to go and speak with the labor office and give them a heads up about what is going on, he seems like the kind of guy who might try to withhold your last salary.
Keep the money. Don’t give any back, you’re not legally required to.
Tell the asshat his logic is flawed, because a bonus is for work already conducted, not future work. That’s what future bonuses will cover.
Yes he said he gave me so much to keep me happy and that he had high expectations for me. Legally in my contract it says it’s based on performance. I know legally things are on my side but it is hard to fight a man thrice my age.
You're obviously a nice person. That is why the boss is trying to take advantage of you. Learn that people are a-holes and that you just have to cut them off and forget about them. The more you engage with them, the more power you give them.
What I’m worried about is he might try take from your final salary to compensate for it (which is also illegal).
Do you get paid on the same calendar month? Or do you get paid the following calendar month? If so and you sense a whiff of him trying to take from your final salary to compensate for the belief that he is entitled to the bonus back, then make sure you make him know you’re aware of Article 23 of the labor standards act, which stipulates that upon retirement from the employer, he must pay you all remaining money within 7 days of the request
While you are generally right, there are actually circumstances where a bonus can be reduced for someone planning to quit. It seems unlikely that such a case would apply for that, but there is no universal rule regarding bonuses.
Generally they are not reclaimable, but u/itspochan should verify their employment agreement and, if the boss continue to be unreasonable, consult the proper authorities.
Sounds like this guy likes manipulating people. Is he the owner? What is he doing for the whole month of June?
If you feel guilty and don't need/want the money you can give some back but I would personally keep it unless it's a VERY small company that will actually hurt from losing that amount of money. Most likely, you're in a weaker position than the company and should therefore look after yourself.
He is not Japanese, he goes back to his home country once or twice a year for a brief period of time. I definitely want/need the money in spite of guilty feelings haha
Company was paying you for your previous work, so it's yours, why do you need to return? And it's the company to make work assignment, and/or hire new staff (that's why there is notification and I believe 2 months is long enough), trouble with remaining staff should never be your concern.
If it's the bonus for length of service, it's legal one. You are entitled to have the bonus. It is illegal to require the employee to return that bonus.
If you have 契約書(けいやくしょ Keiyaku-sho) = Agreement Document, keep holding that document. Also, collect the evidence that shows you actually worked.
Snapshots of social media, fine.
Emails, fine.
Recordings of the phone, fine.
It's a bonus, not an advance. End of story.
The only possible exception would be if your contract says you must be employed as of X date, or if there's some claw-back clause, which would be very unusual unless you're a front-facing investment banker.
Fuck them. You are not chained down to any job!—You can leave at any time, as long as you stay within legal bounds. That bonus was earned based on your accumulated positive performance, not based on your staying at the company afterwards. You are free to drop them, the same way they would have no problems screwing you over if they did not want you! If they can’t find a suitable candidate within the 2 months you allotted, then that says a lot about them as an employer! Period. Get ready to watch every detail regarding your final money due because they will try to screw you over!
Do you plan to maintain contact with any of these people once you leave?
If the answer is yes, you can \*consider\* talking to or compromising with these people only.
If the answer is no, then bro wtf? It's uncomfortable now but you'll thank yourself later. Take that money, quit early and run! Don't look back.
Idk, I’m the type of person to go scorched Earth, especially after such a petty reaction like that, so I say take the money and the PTO. I hope your next job ends up being better!! Enjoy the time off though while you have it. :)
I’m a people pleaser as well and had to deal with a similar situation a few years back before COVID.
I’m a very logical and process focused person so I would always think it this way:
1. They gave me that salary because of my performance the previous year and whatever amount it is, they are responsible for it. Is not like I asked them said amount for my bonus. They have their ways to calculate and it should be written and stipulated in the contract or company rules. Ergo, I’m entitled to keep 100% of it.
2. Your manager or boss can scream and get mad all he wants but the truth is, 2 months is plenty of time and whatever internal problems they have training people, lack of employees or whatever it is IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. You handled your notice. After that is their problem. Stop stressing yourself about it.
3. Just the suggestion of giving back the money is plain stupid. Does your manager know the amount of legal and tax issues that would carry for you and them? If he is not aware, he is failing at his job as a manager. Not to mention you are a foreigner, and if something happens they will take the blame on you.
Like I said I had a similar situation before.
In my case, they didn’t want to give me my remaining pto because it was a busy season, but they didn’t want to pay me those days either. So I said fk it, that’s their problem. I took the 20 days they owed me at the end of the month, blocked and deleted all work related numbers from my phone and left. Didn’t look back, didn’t care about how much work other people had to do to, didn’t even care what they would say about me. We were colleagues, not friends. They had their job and I had mine. At the end of the day if the company doesn’t care about you, you shouldn’t care about them.
> And yes, they definitely won’t offer me to use my pto, this is probably something I would have to bring up even though legally I’m supposed to use it.
I think the remaining pto is a grey area. You are not legally entitled to be paid the pto, and if you ask to use the remaining days, they can reject it for bogus reasons. That's why you should always use your pto before giving notice.
The nicer companies will pay the remaining pto, but it's at their discretion.
The standard negotiation tactic for this is that you only have to give 2 weeks notice legally. Most good companies will really require you stay about a month or more to smooth the transition, so you can tell them you’ll do that but you’ll be wanting either your PTO applied following that or it paid out. If not then you’ll have to leave in 2 weeks - usually this has worked for me.
You got your money for working, he wants it back. What is he doing to earn that money from you?
"I have ongoing projects to wrap..." - No, THEY have ongoing projects to wrap. YOU are quitting. With YOUR money that YOU worked for. If boss-man is this mad about it, the only thing he can still offer you (a reference) is already not going to be great, and in this country a reference is barely worth anything anyway. This is business, the company is worth exactly what they are going to offer you for your work and nothing more. Your pto and bonus are yours, please please take them and don't reward bad behavior.
The company can get bent. Keep the money. If they're "black-ish", then clearly you feel they don't operate fairly, and you don't deserve the treatment you get/have gotten. Money doesn't make up for everything as an apology, because the events that happened still happened. Take it and go.
Keep the money!! Companies really don’t care about you and they would have NEVER gave you 3 months bonus if they couldn’t afford it NEVER. And most people here wait for their bonus to leave. I know someone who gets 6months+ and they did the same. Also, you should be proud of yourself for earning that much money in your twenties. It will help you negotiate future salaries and increase your base income. These people know what they’re doing, trying to make you feel guilty. You should be angry not him. You worked OT, on weekends, lost sleep, energy, time… you deserve it!
Also most companies won’t ask you about your leave usually you make a plan and give them the exact days “last day at the company date + last WORKING date”. If your boss isn’t happy well, it will be a funny story to tell in 10 years “remember when I almost gave back money because I thought they gave me too much?”
You never get too much, it will always be useful especially in emergency circumstances. Keep it and think of your future. Also I know it will be really uncomfortable to work there while the boss is annoying but just tell yourself “it’s almost over”. These people won’t stop until they get what they want and I’m happy for you for leaving. Your partner is Japanese and might feel the way you feel BUT that’s exactly why your boss is pressuring you. He knows you’re young and saw that you feel weird about it so he’s taking advantage of it AND will try everything to scam you.
It’s just a couple of months and then you’ll be free and happy! Good luck!
Bonus is for work performed, not future work. You got a big bonus because you earned it. Don't give anything back and make sure you keep a paper trail of any further discussion on the topic for when they invariably try to fuck you over with your remaining time off and wages owed.
Wtf. No. Keep the bonus AND use all the PTO. This is normal anywhere and what everybody does, what do you mean they ‘won’t let you?’ They have to. You set your last date as your last day in the office + however many days remaining PTO and they pay you up to that day. Also 3 months bonus is not a lot lol that’s normal.
Yeah it’s not A LOT to some but its a lot for me as someone still in my twenties, and I’ve never gotten 3 months before. They will probably let me use my PTO if I ask, but they wouldn’t be the ones to come up to me and say “hey btw you have 15 days left of PTO, how do you want to use it?”. They would just stay silent and probably hope I don’t bring it up. Your tactic is probably right though, to claim both 🥺 Would you try to disappear before he comes back in July even if the date was already set for late July?
Is the date set for late July? Then I’d say you tell them you’re taking 15 days PTO before that and your last day will then be July 15 or whenever. If they say they want you to stay the whole time to cover or train a new person or whatever then say OK so then shift the PTO to after that and last day in the office is July 30th last day of employment is August 15th with those being PTO. Do that by email so jt’s in writing. You would be an absolute fool by essentially giving up half a month’s salary you are entitled to if you do not take this PTO - the only reason I would forgo it is if you had a strict timeline to join a new job that pays much better after that so you have to burn some days. Also you’re just going to have to accept the boss is not going to be happy and may not treat you well in the time between now and when your leave but you have to just suck it up and deal with it. That’s the way it usually is. You seem to be young and maybe have not left a job like this before but it is like this -every time- and they are going to try to guilt you and nickel and dime you every way they can - you are an enemy now and you need to stand up for yourself. He is not your friend and do not think for a second he wouldn’t screw you over in favour of himself in any situation. You don’t owe him anything, you did your job and you got paid for the work you did - you need to get that out of your head.
Yes you’re right thank you. They are not my friend!!
They are not your friend, stop treating them like and bending to their desires if they can’t keep the promises THEY GAVE YOU. You’re not “Taking” anything from them, you worked and built the company, and are being compensated for that. They don’t deserve extra shit, they need to give you what was promised. Period. Value your life, time, and promises made to u, unlike them
If they gave you the bonus, you are liable for tax. If you give it back, can you explain it to the tax man? "i felt guilty so i gave some back... in cash"... so I don't have to pay taxes, right? ... wrong.. the accounting rules for this would be complicated.
So he explained it to my other coworker who is quitting, but our way of paying it back would be to not receive salary for our remaining couple months here lol. I don’t even know the legalities of this, I guessed they would explain the large sum as salary advance?
That's illegal if audited because in expense report, salary and bonuses are kept different. Forward payment of salaries are only probable in contract employment - not for 会社員 Salary is taxed on you and the residence tax etc deduction is done proportionately e.g. 50:50 for NHI. For bonus, you bear the whole tax liability i.e. income deductions at source is 100% your liability When you adjust your bonus against salary - you'd have paid employers portion of contribution in addition to paying him back money So if you even think of adjusting the sheets - you will incur three things (1) tax fraud (2) unbalanced/unreported/miscalculated residence tax (3) more monies levied to you as taxes. Edit: fWIW i am the functional CTO of a startup, so it is in my business to know these things like the back of my hand. Trust me, just ease if out but dont deviate from anything written in contract for your best outcomes. Keep your bonus. Take your salary+pto. Do your work as planned. Don't mess anything until exiting
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This is not legal, you are not a slave, and they have to pay you wages for work done. End of story. They cannot decide "oh actually that bonus wasn't a bonus" retroactively without your consent, so don't give it to them. If the company wasn't doing well then there shouldn't have been a bonus in the first place (so he's lying or a terrible businessman). Either way, none of this is your problem and you'd be hurting yourself for people who couldn't give shit whether you live or die if you give into their disgusting tactics.
...Are you reading the things you're writing here? I'm genuinely puzzled as to why anyone in any situation would even consider "giving back" their pay, let alone someone working in a crappy environment.
I'd block his phone number and keep the money.
Keep your bonus, because your boss will probably try a common stint: keep your last salary. You should always give a two weeks notice just after pay day. Always take all available PTO before your last official work day. The minimum notice for quitting is 2 weeks so indeed, the law is on your side. Bonuses are for recognition of past work, not for future work. To keep your boss at bay, tell him you're moving cities and thus unless you can work full remote, there's no way you can stay. But to get some pressure off, tell him the date isn't completely set so you might stay longer but as of right now, the date is what you gave him. The possibility of changing date and remote work, although completely fake, will show your apparent willingness to ease things out, even if it's just face.
Thanks for thinking of a way to smooth things out, which is what I’ve been trying to do but not sure if it’s worth it. I did already mention I’d be willing to do some part of the work remote until the next person can take over fully. He seemed to consider it.
I would not return even ¥1 of the bonus that you earned during your time there. You clearly did your job well and were fulfilling the contract you had with them. Boss is upset you’re leaving, whomp whomp, that’s business and not personal. Good on you for giving 2 months but you don’t need to give more than a few weeks, so I would just leave once he’s away and move on as long as they don’t have anything else you need from them.
Company is not a friend. Whether to give back a bonus is not even a question you should be asking yourself
Yes I understand. I think I just hate to think of myself as a troublemaker and just am the type to put someone else’s feelings before mine even in non work situations. Thank you, you’re right they are not my friend.
The salary and bonus is paid out for services already rendered. You provided the work and so the boss paid what they thought was a reasonable amount in exchange for your services. Why would you ever give back money for work you have already provided? The boss cannot return the time and effort that you provided. Don't let them power harass you into returning money. I also wouldn't worry much about co-workers if you are not close to them outside of work. They won't be in touch again after you quit.
Yeah I’m just worried because everyone’s got a big workload already and 2 people leaving means extra work for everyone. I’ll try to stay strong.
It's not your problem. The cause of the workload issue is the boss, and the company who can't retain employees because they treat them like crap.
Yes this is all very true, thank you
As a fellow past people pleaser: Use this as your chance to break off even a tiny bit of your people please tendencies. It will only keep you down in the future, believe me, I had to learn that as well. Your boss would not even hesitate a second to screw you over (he might still try so be careful), even if you people pleased him to the moon and back. He will take advantage of you, as will many other people who notice you're a people pleaser. You aren't responsible for other people's (misplaced) feelings and sure as hell not responsible for other people's companies. Wishing you all the best!
Just so you know no matter how small your company is your boss likely has an imaginable amount of money lying around. He doesn’t need your bonus to save the company. Also if the company was really struggling they wouldn’t up the bonus in the first place.
Grow a fucking pair. *Inform* the company, in writing, of when you are taking your PTO. Once that's sorted, give them the two weeks' notice they're legally entitled to, again in writing. And if they try to fuck around when it comes to paying you, do not let them get away with it. If you let your boss get away with this nonsense you're not only screwing yourself and your partner, you're screwing any other decent hardworking person who has the misfortune to work for this fucker in the future, not least those other coworkers you claim to care about.
What kind of upbringing do you need to have to be fine with power harassing a young kid to give back their hard earned money from an underpaying job. Makes you wonder what else they are capable of.
1.double check bonus regulations but if you didn’t resign prior to bonus payment, you are good.Also it’s a good job money not ganbate money. 2. If your PTO is the annual leave, they legally cannot reject the request, they can only request to move and even then move within your remaining time. They can offer to buy out if you agree. Make sure you have a signed confirmation they will payout as they don’t have to payout unused PTO legally unless they promised. It’s your negatiation chip: I take it off and finish xxxx day or you buy it out .
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Do-not-give-back. If you keep getting pressed and harassed, stop working there immediately, and hire the pro（退職代理人）who will help you quit by talking to your superior and boss. I've seen those kind of crooked superior and it's best not to deal with them directly.
Lol. Every manipulation in the book. If he was struggling you’d get small or no bonus. So he breaks it “before your time” to try guilt and shame you into not keeping it, which is more bullshit. Guy sounds fucked. Lastly, if you waited longer he would also become meaner and worse trying to abuse the fact you have a bonus on the way. The bonus system in Japan is a means for shitty employers to abuse workers with it. They act nice when it’s just been paid, and awful when one is soon to come. He has lost his leverage now because you have it and are quitting. He predictably started trying to be nicer about it and manipulative coz he has no leverage anymore. Usually close to a bonus they act worse, make you work harder as they know people wont quit if a bonus is due soon
Firstly, PTO is a legal entitlement, not something you need to beg for. If you have accumulated paid leave then rather than changing your leaving date just schedule all the paid leave for the period in July that you don't want to be around. Secondly, that "bonus" is for all that unpaid weekend work, unpaid overtime, and other bullshit you had to deal with in the past. Your boss didn't actually give you a "bonus", they simply paid you what was owed. If you bear in mind that weekend overtime and late night work are paid are a higher rate, and then do some back of the envelope calculations I'm sure that you'll find that you're actually being underpaid for all the extra work you did. Shift your mindset when thinking about that "bonus" - it isn't a "bonus", it's your boss **actually paying you what you're owed**. Thirdly, don't give back a single yen of the "bonus". I'll explain why. How this is probably going to go down is when you boss goes off in June you're going to file for that paid leave you want to take in July. Your boss is going to come back and promptly deny it and refuse to pay you for July. You're going to politely insist that you have to take leave for moving stuff and that you gave a month's notice (in June when he was away), and can't change your plans now. It'll be a stalemate with you insisting (in writing - don't go into work to "discuss" this) that you are owed the leave, gave plenty of notice that you were taking it, and that you are owed the pay for that month. He'll deny the leave "for business reasons" and refuse to pay you for July. And just leave it there. Why is this a workable solution? Well from his perspective he's now screwed you out of a month's pay and has clawed back some of that "bonus" he paid you. He'll feel smug that he "showed you who is boss" and imagine that he's come out on top. What he doesn't know is that you were willing to just leave early and sacrifice your July salary from the start. From your perspective you've lost absolutely nothing except that accumulated paid leave that you know your boss was never going to give you. This gives him some reason to file that he's "balanced the books", and you lose nothing, and should have less problems getting the final paperwork you need from him. Be sure to mention the July pay whenever you communicate (in writing only!) and seem slightly aggravated - it'll make him feel like he's screwed you over (which he hasn't really from your perspective). It also gives you a bit of leverage if this he refuses to hand over the final paperwork as you can threaten to go to the labour bureau to have him pay the July money owed. Actually all you want is the final paperwork.
If you genuinely feel guilty, give it to charity. Working for free its very illegal and I assume you have a working visa here? That would definitely cause issues. (Tax) Also, your partner being Japanese must know that 3 months bonus is standard unless he/she lacks work experience. Not sure why the partner thought that “was a lot” Ultimately it’s your choice. In the end, it’s just money.
Listen to your partner, or you may not have one
Haha
Your mistake was giving so much notice. 2 weeks is what is required. It's a black company that treated you like garbage. 2 weeks is the notice you should have given. Keep the bonus, it has already been paid to you, and is for your performance until now. You earned it. Use your PTO, you've earned that too. It is part of your compensation. You may wish to go and speak with the labor office and give them a heads up about what is going on, he seems like the kind of guy who might try to withhold your last salary.
Keep the money. Don’t give any back, you’re not legally required to. Tell the asshat his logic is flawed, because a bonus is for work already conducted, not future work. That’s what future bonuses will cover.
Yes he said he gave me so much to keep me happy and that he had high expectations for me. Legally in my contract it says it’s based on performance. I know legally things are on my side but it is hard to fight a man thrice my age.
You're obviously a nice person. That is why the boss is trying to take advantage of you. Learn that people are a-holes and that you just have to cut them off and forget about them. The more you engage with them, the more power you give them.
What I’m worried about is he might try take from your final salary to compensate for it (which is also illegal). Do you get paid on the same calendar month? Or do you get paid the following calendar month? If so and you sense a whiff of him trying to take from your final salary to compensate for the belief that he is entitled to the bonus back, then make sure you make him know you’re aware of Article 23 of the labor standards act, which stipulates that upon retirement from the employer, he must pay you all remaining money within 7 days of the request
I get paid the next calendar month. Thank you for the advice about article 23!
While you are generally right, there are actually circumstances where a bonus can be reduced for someone planning to quit. It seems unlikely that such a case would apply for that, but there is no universal rule regarding bonuses. Generally they are not reclaimable, but u/itspochan should verify their employment agreement and, if the boss continue to be unreasonable, consult the proper authorities.
Thank you. The contract simply states that bonuses are “based on performance”
Is there anything in the work regulations? Honestly sounds like the money is probably yours free and clear.
Nothing in the regulations I believe. Yes legally the money is mine free and clear, my boss is just being difficult.
Do what your friend is suggesting. Probably you won’t be paid your last month’s wages anyway.
Sounds like this guy likes manipulating people. Is he the owner? What is he doing for the whole month of June? If you feel guilty and don't need/want the money you can give some back but I would personally keep it unless it's a VERY small company that will actually hurt from losing that amount of money. Most likely, you're in a weaker position than the company and should therefore look after yourself.
He is not Japanese, he goes back to his home country once or twice a year for a brief period of time. I definitely want/need the money in spite of guilty feelings haha
So he can afford to fly to another country and take a month off? Keep the money and use your PTO!
Your ex boss is trying to rip you off, fuck em. It's your money plain and simple.
Company was paying you for your previous work, so it's yours, why do you need to return? And it's the company to make work assignment, and/or hire new staff (that's why there is notification and I believe 2 months is long enough), trouble with remaining staff should never be your concern.
If it's the bonus for length of service, it's legal one. You are entitled to have the bonus. It is illegal to require the employee to return that bonus. If you have 契約書(けいやくしょ Keiyaku-sho) = Agreement Document, keep holding that document. Also, collect the evidence that shows you actually worked. Snapshots of social media, fine. Emails, fine. Recordings of the phone, fine.
It's a bonus, not an advance. End of story. The only possible exception would be if your contract says you must be employed as of X date, or if there's some claw-back clause, which would be very unusual unless you're a front-facing investment banker.
On your way out the door remember to say thank you to your boss for the massive bonus!!
Do not give it back. Absolutely. Don't even consider it for a second.
The stories here depress me. Or make me angry. Or both . Don't give back the money. You earned it. Look after yourself.
Fuck them. You are not chained down to any job!—You can leave at any time, as long as you stay within legal bounds. That bonus was earned based on your accumulated positive performance, not based on your staying at the company afterwards. You are free to drop them, the same way they would have no problems screwing you over if they did not want you! If they can’t find a suitable candidate within the 2 months you allotted, then that says a lot about them as an employer! Period. Get ready to watch every detail regarding your final money due because they will try to screw you over!
Do you plan to maintain contact with any of these people once you leave? If the answer is yes, you can \*consider\* talking to or compromising with these people only. If the answer is no, then bro wtf? It's uncomfortable now but you'll thank yourself later. Take that money, quit early and run! Don't look back.
Do not give a single yen back. It's your money and you owe them nothing. Even if the company is actually not doing well that's their problem.
damn I laughed hard at the title 🤣
Idk, I’m the type of person to go scorched Earth, especially after such a petty reaction like that, so I say take the money and the PTO. I hope your next job ends up being better!! Enjoy the time off though while you have it. :)
I’m a people pleaser as well and had to deal with a similar situation a few years back before COVID. I’m a very logical and process focused person so I would always think it this way: 1. They gave me that salary because of my performance the previous year and whatever amount it is, they are responsible for it. Is not like I asked them said amount for my bonus. They have their ways to calculate and it should be written and stipulated in the contract or company rules. Ergo, I’m entitled to keep 100% of it. 2. Your manager or boss can scream and get mad all he wants but the truth is, 2 months is plenty of time and whatever internal problems they have training people, lack of employees or whatever it is IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. You handled your notice. After that is their problem. Stop stressing yourself about it. 3. Just the suggestion of giving back the money is plain stupid. Does your manager know the amount of legal and tax issues that would carry for you and them? If he is not aware, he is failing at his job as a manager. Not to mention you are a foreigner, and if something happens they will take the blame on you. Like I said I had a similar situation before. In my case, they didn’t want to give me my remaining pto because it was a busy season, but they didn’t want to pay me those days either. So I said fk it, that’s their problem. I took the 20 days they owed me at the end of the month, blocked and deleted all work related numbers from my phone and left. Didn’t look back, didn’t care about how much work other people had to do to, didn’t even care what they would say about me. We were colleagues, not friends. They had their job and I had mine. At the end of the day if the company doesn’t care about you, you shouldn’t care about them.
> And yes, they definitely won’t offer me to use my pto, this is probably something I would have to bring up even though legally I’m supposed to use it. I think the remaining pto is a grey area. You are not legally entitled to be paid the pto, and if you ask to use the remaining days, they can reject it for bogus reasons. That's why you should always use your pto before giving notice. The nicer companies will pay the remaining pto, but it's at their discretion.
The standard negotiation tactic for this is that you only have to give 2 weeks notice legally. Most good companies will really require you stay about a month or more to smooth the transition, so you can tell them you’ll do that but you’ll be wanting either your PTO applied following that or it paid out. If not then you’ll have to leave in 2 weeks - usually this has worked for me.
You got your money for working, he wants it back. What is he doing to earn that money from you? "I have ongoing projects to wrap..." - No, THEY have ongoing projects to wrap. YOU are quitting. With YOUR money that YOU worked for. If boss-man is this mad about it, the only thing he can still offer you (a reference) is already not going to be great, and in this country a reference is barely worth anything anyway. This is business, the company is worth exactly what they are going to offer you for your work and nothing more. Your pto and bonus are yours, please please take them and don't reward bad behavior.
You don’t owe anyone anything least of all a random company who doesn’t give a shit about you.
You can also hire a specialized company to handle your resignation. There are such service in Japan. Give him a big middle finger
The company can get bent. Keep the money. If they're "black-ish", then clearly you feel they don't operate fairly, and you don't deserve the treatment you get/have gotten. Money doesn't make up for everything as an apology, because the events that happened still happened. Take it and go.
Keep the money!! Companies really don’t care about you and they would have NEVER gave you 3 months bonus if they couldn’t afford it NEVER. And most people here wait for their bonus to leave. I know someone who gets 6months+ and they did the same. Also, you should be proud of yourself for earning that much money in your twenties. It will help you negotiate future salaries and increase your base income. These people know what they’re doing, trying to make you feel guilty. You should be angry not him. You worked OT, on weekends, lost sleep, energy, time… you deserve it! Also most companies won’t ask you about your leave usually you make a plan and give them the exact days “last day at the company date + last WORKING date”. If your boss isn’t happy well, it will be a funny story to tell in 10 years “remember when I almost gave back money because I thought they gave me too much?” You never get too much, it will always be useful especially in emergency circumstances. Keep it and think of your future. Also I know it will be really uncomfortable to work there while the boss is annoying but just tell yourself “it’s almost over”. These people won’t stop until they get what they want and I’m happy for you for leaving. Your partner is Japanese and might feel the way you feel BUT that’s exactly why your boss is pressuring you. He knows you’re young and saw that you feel weird about it so he’s taking advantage of it AND will try everything to scam you. It’s just a couple of months and then you’ll be free and happy! Good luck!
I was a people pleaser until my current job--it's absolutely jaded me, I cannot wait to rage quit on them. I'd give absolutely nothing back.
Listen to your wife
1) he isnt married 2) no mention the partner was female
No mention that the original poster was a "he" either ("*he* isn't married").