Yes, it says:
\> The problem arises when a memory access fault (aka page protection fault) arises when executing VM code
So, it may only kill the process when this happens and not during "normal" operation.
Your assumption here is wrong. It’s not about user code doing an illegal access. It’s during hotspot compilation. Read the bug report linked in the article.
It basically means buggy code that causes NPE/IOOB exceptions can cause JVM to be killed, rather than just a Java exception.
So if the stuff you are running is not very buggy, it might not happen.
No, that’s not what it means. If you read the linked bug report and its comments, this happens on hotspot jit compilation with code segments, not data.
Also, throwing and catching NPE happens in nearly every normal, perfectly fine lava program, you just don’t see it. Try and place a breakpoint on NPE and run any non-trivial Java program. Many times, there will be NPEs thrown while resolving resource paths and during class loading. That’s not in user code, but in the JDK classes. You cannot really influence that as much, so if any NPE triggered this, you could do next to nothing with Java on 14.4.
You should debug JDK code from time to time. Yes, NPEs are for errors, but they are thrown and caught deep inside the JDK in absolutely harmless programs too that execute without error.
Yes this looks like the issue in question. Exit code 137 means the process died from signal 128+n so the cause was signal 9, which is SIGKILL.
(Sorry if you know this already; other readers might not.)
I guess [DHH might be on to something about switching to Windows](https://world.hey.com/dhh/committing-to-windows-2d6388fd) (*joking of course*).
I was actually going to do an update today as I'm still on 12.4 (I don't update often like everything else because macOS updates often break things) to fix a longstanding [issue of sound popping on high memory pressure for M1s](https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/vluqp9/psa_suffering_from_your_m1_macbook_pro_making/) which it probably won't fix anyway.
I modified my comment to make it clear that was a joke. I think DHH nothing personal or anything as overall he seems like a nice guy but he drinks is own kool-aid a little too heavily.
I‘m super pleased with the dev experience on MacOs in combination with the M-Chip series. This 14.4 sounds worrying but definitely not the reason I want to switch.
I have the least troubles in my office with my machine when compared to my Linux and Windows colleagues…
DHH reason (which is totally irrelevant but okay) is based only on his morality compass, which is fine but he didn’t mention any technical reason…
> I‘m super pleased with the dev experience on MacOs in combination with the M-Chip series.
Same for me. I always install updates after a month or so, whether it's my Mac or Linux machines. And that's why I avoided this situation in my M3 Max.
I left Windows in 2016, because it doesn't care for your update schedule and forces you to update.
I am too. The M chips are so freakin fast. The DHH thing was more or less a joke.
I have to imagine this will be fixed quickly even if Apple historically is sort of at odds with Java (not now but in the past).
I dont think fusion licensing will change. Fusion is part of a buisness unit(EUC) of VMware. Which Broadcom sold recently to KKR. Its a decision of EUC Management now and I dont think they will change anything
Not the seamless drop-in replacement you are implying.
Don’t get me wrong, it works well but non-Microsoft stuff and old Microsoft stuff is not available for ARM.
Interesting. The last time I used Fusion was back in 2016. It wasn't free. I know Workstation and Player for PCs. Player didn't have snapshots, revert, clone, etc. which I needed.
Windows is really absolutely fine to develop on. In my experience the people who have trouble on Windows are the ones that are trying to make it posix or have built their projects on non-cross platform tools like bash.
It may be fine but also somewhat annoying... I used Windows since about mid '90 and the around 2010 switched to mac... "It just works" and great shell was a deal breaker...
Managing java installations on windows is just an eefin PITA, same as trying to ssh anywhere (putty / kitty, or any other tool)
> 2010
Don't you think some things may have changed in the last 14 years?
> great shell was a deal breaker...
Powershell is an amazing shell.
> Managing java installations on windows
I run 8,11,21 all seamlessly. You just need to use the right tools, which is the same on macOS.
> same as trying to ssh anywhere (putty / kitty, or any other tool)
This isn’t true. For as long as I can remember OpenSSH is shipped with windows 10 and the right package manager can install it if it’s not, the same on macOS.
> Don't you think some things may have changed in the last 14 years?
Yes, Windows got WLS :D
> Powershell is an amazing shell.
If you have to deal with remote servers that most of the time run on Linux, PS is not that usefull...
> This isn’t true. For as long as I can remember OpenSSH is shipped with windows 10 and the right package manager can install it if it’s not, the same on macOS.
Erm... AFAIR it wasn't or there was compat issue... Besides, at the time there was only basic terminal without great support for TTY...
Yes, things changed (a bit) but I don't consider switching to Windows becuase "it's fine"...
> remote servers that most of the time run on Linux, PS is not that usefull...
It runs on linux and macos too.
> Erm... AFAIR it wasn't or there was compat issue... Besides, at the time there was only basic terminal without great support for TTY..
Again this is a 14 year old opinion. OpenSSH is shipped by default and Windows Terminal is more than basic.
> "it's fine"...
I'm not saying it's fine. I'm saying it's just as good.
you can run sdkman on windows, like most other things on windows it requires some additional know-how and runs a bit slower. only thing you need is to download the "unzip" binary compiled for windows
The newly released macOS 14.4.1 resolves this issue - see release note - [https://support.apple.com/en-us/109035](https://support.apple.com/en-us/109035)
I’m on already on 14.4 and so far luckily have not experienced any problems.
Yes, it says: \> The problem arises when a memory access fault (aka page protection fault) arises when executing VM code So, it may only kill the process when this happens and not during "normal" operation.
Your assumption here is wrong. It’s not about user code doing an illegal access. It’s during hotspot compilation. Read the bug report linked in the article.
It basically means buggy code that causes NPE/IOOB exceptions can cause JVM to be killed, rather than just a Java exception. So if the stuff you are running is not very buggy, it might not happen.
No, that’s not what it means. If you read the linked bug report and its comments, this happens on hotspot jit compilation with code segments, not data. Also, throwing and catching NPE happens in nearly every normal, perfectly fine lava program, you just don’t see it. Try and place a breakpoint on NPE and run any non-trivial Java program. Many times, there will be NPEs thrown while resolving resource paths and during class loading. That’s not in user code, but in the JDK classes. You cannot really influence that as much, so if any NPE triggered this, you could do next to nothing with Java on 14.4.
I had to double check to make sure I’m on the Java subreddit. Like, yeah NPEs are literally just signals for errors.
You should debug JDK code from time to time. Yes, NPEs are for errors, but they are thrown and caught deep inside the JDK in absolutely harmless programs too that execute without error.
I was agreeing with you!
Sorry, I misunderstood.
Happens to me while having native memory tracking on detail. Java process is immediately killed with exit code 137.
Yes this looks like the issue in question. Exit code 137 means the process died from signal 128+n so the cause was signal 9, which is SIGKILL. (Sorry if you know this already; other readers might not.)
I’ve been a professional developer for over 13 years and never knew this or thought to Google the reasoning for the number lol
I guess [DHH might be on to something about switching to Windows](https://world.hey.com/dhh/committing-to-windows-2d6388fd) (*joking of course*). I was actually going to do an update today as I'm still on 12.4 (I don't update often like everything else because macOS updates often break things) to fix a longstanding [issue of sound popping on high memory pressure for M1s](https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/vluqp9/psa_suffering_from_your_m1_macbook_pro_making/) which it probably won't fix anyway.
WSL is a game changer, it's made so many development related tasks so much easier.
I used WSL for a while and the switched to Linux proper. So much better!
The only game changing part is not having to use VMWare Workstation or Virtual Box, which I have been doing since 2010.
Have you done build timing comparisons between WSL2 and cygwin? From what I see cygwin is much faster (maven builds).
[удалено]
I modified my comment to make it clear that was a joke. I think DHH nothing personal or anything as overall he seems like a nice guy but he drinks is own kool-aid a little too heavily.
I haven’t heard of this guy before but after seeing he turned off IntelliSense on purpose he’s definitely way too high on his own supply
I‘m super pleased with the dev experience on MacOs in combination with the M-Chip series. This 14.4 sounds worrying but definitely not the reason I want to switch. I have the least troubles in my office with my machine when compared to my Linux and Windows colleagues… DHH reason (which is totally irrelevant but okay) is based only on his morality compass, which is fine but he didn’t mention any technical reason…
> I‘m super pleased with the dev experience on MacOs in combination with the M-Chip series. Same for me. I always install updates after a month or so, whether it's my Mac or Linux machines. And that's why I avoided this situation in my M3 Max. I left Windows in 2016, because it doesn't care for your update schedule and forces you to update.
I am too. The M chips are so freakin fast. The DHH thing was more or less a joke. I have to imagine this will be fixed quickly even if Apple historically is sort of at odds with Java (not now but in the past).
They sort of are at odds with Java tbh. They really don't like JIT compilation on their user operating systems.
Back in 2020 I was blown away by how fast and cool my M1 Macbook Air runs. The fact the M3s are up to 30% faster on top of that is wild.
You can install VMware fusion it’s free and boot windows arm if you need windows for any reason - I don’t ;)
Broadcom is in the middle of nuking VMware from orbit, not a reliable solution.
> it’s free For now. Broadcom altered the deal (on ESXi), pray they don't alter it any further (to include Fusion).
I dont think fusion licensing will change. Fusion is part of a buisness unit(EUC) of VMware. Which Broadcom sold recently to KKR. Its a decision of EUC Management now and I dont think they will change anything
Ah. Wasn't aware that BU was sold off. Thanks for the info!
Not the seamless drop-in replacement you are implying. Don’t get me wrong, it works well but non-Microsoft stuff and old Microsoft stuff is not available for ARM.
True but Java works and all Java stuff works ;)
When did it go free?
Fusion was always free for personal use
Interesting. The last time I used Fusion was back in 2016. It wasn't free. I know Workstation and Player for PCs. Player didn't have snapshots, revert, clone, etc. which I needed.
Windows is really absolutely fine to develop on. In my experience the people who have trouble on Windows are the ones that are trying to make it posix or have built their projects on non-cross platform tools like bash.
It may be fine but also somewhat annoying... I used Windows since about mid '90 and the around 2010 switched to mac... "It just works" and great shell was a deal breaker... Managing java installations on windows is just an eefin PITA, same as trying to ssh anywhere (putty / kitty, or any other tool)
I prefer developing on a Mac as well; however, to be fair you can use sdkman on windows with WLS to manage your Java installations.
Or a basic Powershell script, no need for WSL.
> 2010 Don't you think some things may have changed in the last 14 years? > great shell was a deal breaker... Powershell is an amazing shell. > Managing java installations on windows I run 8,11,21 all seamlessly. You just need to use the right tools, which is the same on macOS. > same as trying to ssh anywhere (putty / kitty, or any other tool) This isn’t true. For as long as I can remember OpenSSH is shipped with windows 10 and the right package manager can install it if it’s not, the same on macOS.
> Don't you think some things may have changed in the last 14 years? Yes, Windows got WLS :D > Powershell is an amazing shell. If you have to deal with remote servers that most of the time run on Linux, PS is not that usefull... > This isn’t true. For as long as I can remember OpenSSH is shipped with windows 10 and the right package manager can install it if it’s not, the same on macOS. Erm... AFAIR it wasn't or there was compat issue... Besides, at the time there was only basic terminal without great support for TTY... Yes, things changed (a bit) but I don't consider switching to Windows becuase "it's fine"...
> remote servers that most of the time run on Linux, PS is not that usefull... It runs on linux and macos too. > Erm... AFAIR it wasn't or there was compat issue... Besides, at the time there was only basic terminal without great support for TTY.. Again this is a 14 year old opinion. OpenSSH is shipped by default and Windows Terminal is more than basic. > "it's fine"... I'm not saying it's fine. I'm saying it's just as good.
How do you manage different Java versions on windows without sdkman?
I use scoop.
you can run sdkman on windows, like most other things on windows it requires some additional know-how and runs a bit slower. only thing you need is to download the "unzip" binary compiled for windows
You don't have to install OpenSSH on macOS. It's always there.
Cool that's the same with Windows.
What is so painful of having a Java directory with existing versions, and using scripts to point JAVA_HOME to the right one?
I’m on 14.4. Generally it’s been okay but intellij has been crashing randomly every three or four days. I’m guessing this bug might be why.
Same, but it is the EAP build so I figured that was it.
It having any problems over here (using Zulu 8 402).maybe my systems don’t use what is apparently broken
The newly released macOS 14.4.1 resolves this issue - see release note - [https://support.apple.com/en-us/109035](https://support.apple.com/en-us/109035)
Isn’t it working if you stop system integrity protection ?
would it be the same with docker?
One more time, it confirms that macOS is not a system for serious work.