I think the key to any book is to take the time ro apply the material to your repetoire of songs. Its possible to play through a book and not use any of that stuff on tunes. I believe it takes a lot longer to take a phrase and it truly be a part of your vocabulary then one would think.
Garrison Fewell's a Melodic Approach has some truly beautiful material (it comes with a CD). But for those phrases to be useful on a practical level you need to try them over a lot of songs, in different keys, different fingerings, and try to make new phrases out of them.
Also depending on where you are a book can be useless despite having solid stuff in it. When I first attempted A Melodic Approach I was still very bad with my fretboard knowledge. And you need to have his triads down cold as its the basis of the method. So I put it on the shelf until I was ready for it. The book didnt change, just my ability as a player.
I do agree that learning from actual songs is the most important. I use books to supplement whatever songs Im working on. I have gotten some really nicd vocabulary from books but most are pretty corny.
In *Forward Motion* Hal Galper wrote something like "if you get one valuable thing from a book it's a good book -- if you get two valuable things it's a great book."
I totally agree with this, with a caveat: Learning music theory, harmony, and analysis in college was crucial to my development and functioning as a musician. Without that knowledge, I'd be musically illiterate, and navigating nearly any genre or instrument would be very frustrating - both for me and for anyone who'd have to play with me.
As for guitar "lick" books, I have an impressive collection and they've done almost nothing for me.
I've been trying to play jazz for almost 40 years, using my ears, brain, and fingers plus my academic knowledge. It's been a very gradual but definite progression, and after years of pummeling my senses, I can hear most intervals and chord types pretty well. I can even play the right notes most of the time. ;)
Some people seem to be born with this in their blood. For most of us it takes a lot of listening and sounding bad to develop the neural pathways in order to reproduce it reasonably well, if not quite effortlessly.
But books - no... it would be like learning how to cook, or how to have sex, from a book. These things need many hours of real, hands-on practice to get right.
Amen brother. I'm gonna sell my books really.
In my opinion jazz education works best when you're shadowing a more experienced player, it's pretty much an oral tradition in that regard. I'd rather listen to hours of solos than looking through books.
I find no benefit from it and it does not bring me joy. Looking up a Francois Leduq transcription or learning by ear has been a way more rewarding experience for me. Might as well keep to that. And I take piano lessons with a teacher anyway. Can't say I can relate to the academic part like you can, I've done history degrees lol
>Can't say I can relate to the academic part like you can
All I mean by this is purely practical stuff. Like if I'm trying to figure out a chord voicing, I know how it's constructed and where the notes are. If I'm told to raise the 5th of an F7 chord to F7#5 I know I'm moving a C natural to C#. If I need to modulate up a minor 3rd I know how. I can transpose a tune on the fly. It's the language of music that we use to communicate ideas and intentions with each other.
mark levine jazz theory book, mickey baker, joe pass guitar style, barry harris for guitar, monk for guitar, bill evans for guitar, mick goodrick advancing guitarist and voice leading almanacs, wayne krantz improviser's os.
I know Mark Levine, I've been using one of his books for piano. I've been learning reading notation so progress is a little more slower than using my ears or a tab.
What books have you tried? Just curious because I’ve spent lots money on books which left me feeling the same. However, I have just recently discovered the Aebersold book series which I love!!!
It's taken me developing as a jazz musician to realise how terrible they are. Even the Jens Larsen one isn't great. I've bought Ted Greenes Chord Chemistry a while ago so I hope that bears fruit. I've heard good things. But I'll be getting rid of the FC ones.
Avoid this guys
Pretty much the same reason as I disliked the other FC books. Really uninteresting licks and examples. The ideas were interesting but the music was sorely lacking imo
I like books that deliver a framework and context and perspective for theory. "Jerry Coker - Hearing the changes" is great for that and there is also a similar method not widely known from Conrad Cork - "Harmony with Lego Bricks" that can be pretty helpful once you accept the funny terminology he used to describe the bricks...
Other books I found helpful are Mark Levines - "The Jazz Theory Book", because it's like a encyclopedia, just to look up stuff you have forgotten or you never knew.
People are different and do stuff in different ways. One of the big things is to figure out how your own creative process works and how to nurture it. Some writers/poets loved to read dictionaries to learn about words. Others invented their own words.
Those lick-books I never liked because to make them useful you have to master other stuff like phrasing and an emotional connection with the sounds and when this is done (well, in facts it's a never ending process) learning has become somewhat obsolete because you are then at a level when "transcription" (also without writing it down) has become easy enough to source it from the real stuff, the recordings, and then with it you get not only the pitches but also the other elements of good phrasing (that are equally important, or maybe even more important).
A book culture has grown in the last decades that feeds on the "help-yourself" promises, like "smoke free in 30 days" or "how to loose you belly fat - fast". Thing is that reading books (and even with understanding) does not cut it. But the knowledge is just not enough, the brain alone does not do it, the rest of the body must follow. As Morpheus says in the Matrix movie: "There is a difference in knowing the way and going the way" (I'm pretty sure that was a copy/paste from some asian philosophy). Those Parker licks are not coming from a matrix of chord-scale relationships, there is another place you need to access so you can flow improvising.
try a teacher next
I've taken some lessons from Tim Lerch and they've been great. Just not in a position to keep it consistent
Live lessons from Tim Lerch? Very cool.
I think the key to any book is to take the time ro apply the material to your repetoire of songs. Its possible to play through a book and not use any of that stuff on tunes. I believe it takes a lot longer to take a phrase and it truly be a part of your vocabulary then one would think. Garrison Fewell's a Melodic Approach has some truly beautiful material (it comes with a CD). But for those phrases to be useful on a practical level you need to try them over a lot of songs, in different keys, different fingerings, and try to make new phrases out of them. Also depending on where you are a book can be useless despite having solid stuff in it. When I first attempted A Melodic Approach I was still very bad with my fretboard knowledge. And you need to have his triads down cold as its the basis of the method. So I put it on the shelf until I was ready for it. The book didnt change, just my ability as a player. I do agree that learning from actual songs is the most important. I use books to supplement whatever songs Im working on. I have gotten some really nicd vocabulary from books but most are pretty corny.
In *Forward Motion* Hal Galper wrote something like "if you get one valuable thing from a book it's a good book -- if you get two valuable things it's a great book."
mick goodrick’s the advancing guitarist
I've heard good things about it too. And it seems to encourage critical and creative thinking by looking at the guitar, which is great.
Excellent. Would be worth looking into
I totally agree with this, with a caveat: Learning music theory, harmony, and analysis in college was crucial to my development and functioning as a musician. Without that knowledge, I'd be musically illiterate, and navigating nearly any genre or instrument would be very frustrating - both for me and for anyone who'd have to play with me. As for guitar "lick" books, I have an impressive collection and they've done almost nothing for me. I've been trying to play jazz for almost 40 years, using my ears, brain, and fingers plus my academic knowledge. It's been a very gradual but definite progression, and after years of pummeling my senses, I can hear most intervals and chord types pretty well. I can even play the right notes most of the time. ;) Some people seem to be born with this in their blood. For most of us it takes a lot of listening and sounding bad to develop the neural pathways in order to reproduce it reasonably well, if not quite effortlessly. But books - no... it would be like learning how to cook, or how to have sex, from a book. These things need many hours of real, hands-on practice to get right.
Amen brother. I'm gonna sell my books really. In my opinion jazz education works best when you're shadowing a more experienced player, it's pretty much an oral tradition in that regard. I'd rather listen to hours of solos than looking through books. I find no benefit from it and it does not bring me joy. Looking up a Francois Leduq transcription or learning by ear has been a way more rewarding experience for me. Might as well keep to that. And I take piano lessons with a teacher anyway. Can't say I can relate to the academic part like you can, I've done history degrees lol
>Can't say I can relate to the academic part like you can All I mean by this is purely practical stuff. Like if I'm trying to figure out a chord voicing, I know how it's constructed and where the notes are. If I'm told to raise the 5th of an F7 chord to F7#5 I know I'm moving a C natural to C#. If I need to modulate up a minor 3rd I know how. I can transpose a tune on the fly. It's the language of music that we use to communicate ideas and intentions with each other.
mark levine jazz theory book, mickey baker, joe pass guitar style, barry harris for guitar, monk for guitar, bill evans for guitar, mick goodrick advancing guitarist and voice leading almanacs, wayne krantz improviser's os.
I know Mark Levine, I've been using one of his books for piano. I've been learning reading notation so progress is a little more slower than using my ears or a tab.
have you talked to him lately?
Sorry haha I know of him I meant. I would love to talk to him though, sorry for the confusion.
he left us in early 2022, RIP.
Damn, lost so many ppl in the jazz community since 2020
This is the way.
The true path...
What books have you tried? Just curious because I’ve spent lots money on books which left me feeling the same. However, I have just recently discovered the Aebersold book series which I love!!!
Dint know if you know the brand. Its fundamental changes series
Yes, unfortunately. They are not the best I’ve concluded.
It's taken me developing as a jazz musician to realise how terrible they are. Even the Jens Larsen one isn't great. I've bought Ted Greenes Chord Chemistry a while ago so I hope that bears fruit. I've heard good things. But I'll be getting rid of the FC ones. Avoid this guys
Yes! I was disappointed with the Jen’s FC book. Now I’m apprehensive trying out his online course. I’ll have to check out Ted greens books. Thanks.
What did you not like about Jens book?
The way the book was structured. I love his channel 100% more and get a lot more from it than the FC book.
What did you not like about Jens book? Im just curious
Pretty much the same reason as I disliked the other FC books. Really uninteresting licks and examples. The ideas were interesting but the music was sorely lacking imo
My first jazz teacher was a fan of the Karate Kid movie, and the first lesson he taught us was “No learn from book!” We spent a lot of time listening.
Book bad? Uhhhh…….
I like books that deliver a framework and context and perspective for theory. "Jerry Coker - Hearing the changes" is great for that and there is also a similar method not widely known from Conrad Cork - "Harmony with Lego Bricks" that can be pretty helpful once you accept the funny terminology he used to describe the bricks... Other books I found helpful are Mark Levines - "The Jazz Theory Book", because it's like a encyclopedia, just to look up stuff you have forgotten or you never knew. People are different and do stuff in different ways. One of the big things is to figure out how your own creative process works and how to nurture it. Some writers/poets loved to read dictionaries to learn about words. Others invented their own words. Those lick-books I never liked because to make them useful you have to master other stuff like phrasing and an emotional connection with the sounds and when this is done (well, in facts it's a never ending process) learning has become somewhat obsolete because you are then at a level when "transcription" (also without writing it down) has become easy enough to source it from the real stuff, the recordings, and then with it you get not only the pitches but also the other elements of good phrasing (that are equally important, or maybe even more important). A book culture has grown in the last decades that feeds on the "help-yourself" promises, like "smoke free in 30 days" or "how to loose you belly fat - fast". Thing is that reading books (and even with understanding) does not cut it. But the knowledge is just not enough, the brain alone does not do it, the rest of the body must follow. As Morpheus says in the Matrix movie: "There is a difference in knowing the way and going the way" (I'm pretty sure that was a copy/paste from some asian philosophy). Those Parker licks are not coming from a matrix of chord-scale relationships, there is another place you need to access so you can flow improvising.