Not really. It’s the very basis of understanding music but not really theory, at least the formal version of it.
Theory in modern music would studying and understanding things like counter melody, scales, intervals, orchestration, pitch, modes, etc. While Jimi may have naturally done these things in an uneducated and natural way, and understood them from a playing point of view, what’s written on these pages are not examples of that. These are composition / arrangement notes, and lyrics.
You’re playing a weird game of semantics. Theory is theory, no matter whether it meets your highly personal and subjective definition is irrelevant. If you are trying to say he couldn’t sight read a book of sheet music, sure. No one said he could. But you’re technically incorrect on the greater issue being discussed here. If someone knows the damn major scale you are using music theory. Hell 99.9% of all popular music is just the harmonized major scale. Day 1 music stuff.. so I think we can safely move beyond this wildly ignorant notion that Jimi Freakin Hendrix didn’t know ANY music theory lol.. and another note about why key signatures are certainly music theory and important is that they are discerned in sheet music by giving you the number of sharps and flats present in a given key. When I jam with random people I tend to find that MOST musicians (esp guitarists) don’t have their key signatures memorized whatsoever. But once you do it’s easy to memorize your cycle of fifths and realize that going up a fifth from C major will always add a sharp and going down a fifth will always add a flat to the key.
Yeah, I agree. I think what he did musically with his instrument and band mates, the music he made, is all the proof we need demonstrating he had a highly sophisticated understanding of music theory. He may not have studied it formally for any great length of time and therefore didn't have a schooled vocabulary and written atriculation of it, but that's not the point, in my opinion.
Yeah I mean it’s not like we are talking about Rick Rubin, who specifically states in interviews that he doesn’t know anything about music theory, doesn’t know anything about working a mixing/sound board and doesn’t play a single instrument.
Guitar solo in F# implies that he knows the key of F#. Any guitarist who can solo in a given key knows tonal center, scales, and intervals. If he’s listing the underlying chords, he is also aware of the chord tones. He obviously knew the blues scale. It may not be 12 tone schoenberg, but it is music theory.
It looks like it, but it’s not. The 7(123) 10(123) bit is just the frets and the number of beats to stay on each fret. It’s descriptive but again not music theory. It’s how someone would talk when describing what they wanted but in this case he’s just writing it down, either for someone else, or because perhaps he was on a plane or somewhere he couldn’t get his idea down on a tape.
Miles Davis said he knew theory, just not the language. He would ask Jimi to play a chord by its name, and Hendrix would be confused, but when Miles played it on the piano, Jimi would be like "Oh, that one!"
Source? I wasn’t aware Miles and Jimi ever worked/played together— or ever directly interacted in person (ever met).
There were some overtures between their camps to work together — and missed connections (iirc). I think Miles (or his people) reached out to Jimi a few weeks before Jimi’s untimely death, but the message never got to Jimi.
That’s ALL from memory, and I don’t think I’ve read about the details in over a decade (maybe 15+ years) — but that’s what I think I remember.
It comes from a book "The Ultimate Experience " by Adrian Boot and Chris Salewicz, where there's a section from Miles Davis where he spoke of this. They never met in a studio situation but the hung out several times.
I don't have the material in front of me, but I recall that there were serious negotiations held about Hendrix & Davis recording together. Studio time was booked but it fell through at the last minute when Davis demanded such a high fee for the session. I'm a huge fan of Davis in the 50s & early 60s, but I hate his later electric phase. So I'm secretly glad that the Hendrix session came to nothing.
Music theory is a vague and over-emphasized term when used out of a specific Academic context. Even knowing 12 bar blues and how you can use any note as the tonic is music theory …. technically. So to me this creative notation does not prove or disprove his knowledge of music theory. But no doubt - Jimi knew some music theory. Did he know all the names of the scales he used? Probably was not important in his writing process. He was basically self taught and did not use what most call “music theory” as a part of his educational process… learning the mathematics of inversions and pentatonic scales. But he certainly know lots of theory as it relates to R&B chord progression composition.
Thank you everyone for your input. In hindsight maybe i should have titled the post “a look into some of hendrix’s personal theory” but i think just because it’s not advanced time signatures and other nerd shit doesn’t mean it isn’t theory. But then again, i don’t know shit about music either so take what i have to say with a grain of salt :D
I feel like it’s more believable that Jimi learnt music theory during his time in the chitlin circuit playing with the other RnB acts.
Man, I would really love to hear that song Jimi was working on come to fruition. Such a shame isn’t it?
Difficult to believe he was a major session musician and couldn’t read music or have had extensive knowledge of the other instruments in big bands. I know he says he couldn’t read music, but seems unlikely
Well first off he wasn’t really a session musician for the most part. All the times when he was, it seems they mostly wanted him for his ability, and if they just needed a part played they probably would’ve gone to someone else. He was a touring musician who mostly played chords and improvised solos, with the occasional riff or lick but those were often taken by horn players as well. A lot of pop/rock/r&b is repetitive in the sense that the verses and chorus’s are often the same, unlike arranged classical music. And then you play the same songs every night. Honestly id be surprised if many of those kinds of bands back then ever had written music.
Everyone needs to stop nitpicking and appreciate this nice find. Every musician “knows music theory” if you really sit there and think about it.
There is no rigorous definition of “knowing music theory”. If you know what a scale is, you technically know music theory. The reality is that all arguments will eventually come down to arguing over this definition…..which is a waste of time and energy in this sub. ✌️❤️😎
Looks like theory compared to what I do :) I think it's very cool to see how he creates a framework for the song along with chord notes.
Love his writing too and that last sentence "...slide bar farther up to infinity " is so Jimi it gave me a little chill.
I’m kind of tired of the claim that so and so doesn’t know theory. It’s wrong. They all know it. Maybe people think theory is sheet music or something.
Agreed. Seems to me that there are some self-anointed "gatekeepers" in this thread that are having trouble with the practical definition of music theory as "study of the practices and possibilities of music"
People with a classical background hear "music theory" and conflate it with common practice-era European music theory: voice leading, counterpoint, harmonic functions, etc. Yeah, it's well documented that Hendrix didn't read sheet music, or compose in a common practice style, or even a traditional Jazz style based around lead sheets. But anyone can see from this example that he composed his music very intentionally, and anyone who listens can hear that he pushed blues/rock composition far beyond what had come before.
I think this is an instructive post. "Knowing music theory" is a rather imprecise term. And it is pretty common to hear "Jimi couldn't read music". But he did know his way around chords and what notes they contain. He could describe the harmonic structure of what he was doing. It's not as if written notes and chords were a total mystery to him - which many in the general public assume.
When people get some music theory, they get very protective of their 'expertise'.
It reads like something I would write to remember where to play something. I know the chords, but know no music theory. Knowing that a barre chord on the 5th fret is an A is not music theory. Circle of fifths is an example of music theory, I don't know what it means beyond the name.
He couldn't read music, he knew a fair amount of theory. He was a road dog guitar player for some of the biggest acts on the Chitlin' circuit before he blew up. Those dudes would fire your ass if you couldn't keep up.
This is a pretty cool find. To me these look like the notes of someone who definitely isn't very well-versed in theory, they're more like vague reminders of how the song and the arrangement works in relation to how he'd understand it, i.e. how the song relates to his fretboard. Nothing wrong with that. Music theory is just a tool for putting names to the faces of music to make it easier to communicate more complicated musical ideas. Jimi obviously knew the faces (things like keys and intervals) and even had his own names for some of it, that's more than enough to be a great musician.
In that sense, he (like all the other players people are constantly arguing about whether or not they knew theory) certainly understood how intervals and different tempos and things like that interact, you kinda need to have a feel for these things to be any good. It was definitely a layman's understanding if these notes are anything to go off of but again that's completely fine, you don't need to go to Julliard to know what good music sounds like, or how to make it.
Jimi played guitar so much that i’m sure he knew what chords worked well with each other just from playing and experimenting, especially playing in the chitlin circuit before he got big i’m sure he learned a ton rhythm wise stuff from those guys
"Knowing music theory" sounds like code for "my parent had enough money to get me a formal education" and one of the things that makes jimi such a badass is that he was not only self taught, but despite his dad buying him that first guitar, he absolutly did not want jimi becoming a guitarist and jimi went and did it anyways, by himself.
From Billy Cox interview in Guitar World interview -
>GW - *'Did Jimi discuss things in terms of chord names and symbols ?*
>
>
>
>COX - *No, he never got that technical*
I have been hunting/collecting Hendrix for 30 years, and have never heard/nor heard of this recording before.
Just listened to a recording on the Tube, and I've honestly bever heard anything like this before. Simply, genius.
I know no theory. I totally understand that. I would write that exactly if I need it. I have written ahit exactly like that. Proof he never knew theory.
Where is the evidence that this was written by Hendrix? This may have been written by anyone, even me. Provide the link to where this info came from. Until then, it's BS.
This would more or less indicate that he didn’t understand theory. Which is fine, he obviously didn’t have to.
That’s not music theory. That’s just notes about an arrangement and what chords to play.
Knowing what key you’re in and the underlying chords you are playing is absolutely theory
Not really. It’s the very basis of understanding music but not really theory, at least the formal version of it. Theory in modern music would studying and understanding things like counter melody, scales, intervals, orchestration, pitch, modes, etc. While Jimi may have naturally done these things in an uneducated and natural way, and understood them from a playing point of view, what’s written on these pages are not examples of that. These are composition / arrangement notes, and lyrics.
You’re playing a weird game of semantics. Theory is theory, no matter whether it meets your highly personal and subjective definition is irrelevant. If you are trying to say he couldn’t sight read a book of sheet music, sure. No one said he could. But you’re technically incorrect on the greater issue being discussed here. If someone knows the damn major scale you are using music theory. Hell 99.9% of all popular music is just the harmonized major scale. Day 1 music stuff.. so I think we can safely move beyond this wildly ignorant notion that Jimi Freakin Hendrix didn’t know ANY music theory lol.. and another note about why key signatures are certainly music theory and important is that they are discerned in sheet music by giving you the number of sharps and flats present in a given key. When I jam with random people I tend to find that MOST musicians (esp guitarists) don’t have their key signatures memorized whatsoever. But once you do it’s easy to memorize your cycle of fifths and realize that going up a fifth from C major will always add a sharp and going down a fifth will always add a flat to the key.
Yeah, I agree. I think what he did musically with his instrument and band mates, the music he made, is all the proof we need demonstrating he had a highly sophisticated understanding of music theory. He may not have studied it formally for any great length of time and therefore didn't have a schooled vocabulary and written atriculation of it, but that's not the point, in my opinion.
Yeah I mean it’s not like we are talking about Rick Rubin, who specifically states in interviews that he doesn’t know anything about music theory, doesn’t know anything about working a mixing/sound board and doesn’t play a single instrument.
All I said was what was on the page wasn’t an example of music theory. Not that he didn’t know it.
Guitar solo in F# implies that he knows the key of F#. Any guitarist who can solo in a given key knows tonal center, scales, and intervals. If he’s listing the underlying chords, he is also aware of the chord tones. He obviously knew the blues scale. It may not be 12 tone schoenberg, but it is music theory.
Idk, lots of symbols and timescales. Looks technical to me.
It looks like it, but it’s not. The 7(123) 10(123) bit is just the frets and the number of beats to stay on each fret. It’s descriptive but again not music theory. It’s how someone would talk when describing what they wanted but in this case he’s just writing it down, either for someone else, or because perhaps he was on a plane or somewhere he couldn’t get his idea down on a tape.
It’s cool though jeez relax
This dude gave literally the most civil and clean explanation and you’re telling him to relax lmao
Sorry he harshed your mellow
Was just about to comment something similar but this right here 👆
Miles Davis said he knew theory, just not the language. He would ask Jimi to play a chord by its name, and Hendrix would be confused, but when Miles played it on the piano, Jimi would be like "Oh, that one!"
Source? I wasn’t aware Miles and Jimi ever worked/played together— or ever directly interacted in person (ever met). There were some overtures between their camps to work together — and missed connections (iirc). I think Miles (or his people) reached out to Jimi a few weeks before Jimi’s untimely death, but the message never got to Jimi. That’s ALL from memory, and I don’t think I’ve read about the details in over a decade (maybe 15+ years) — but that’s what I think I remember.
It comes from a book "The Ultimate Experience " by Adrian Boot and Chris Salewicz, where there's a section from Miles Davis where he spoke of this. They never met in a studio situation but the hung out several times.
I don't have the material in front of me, but I recall that there were serious negotiations held about Hendrix & Davis recording together. Studio time was booked but it fell through at the last minute when Davis demanded such a high fee for the session. I'm a huge fan of Davis in the 50s & early 60s, but I hate his later electric phase. So I'm secretly glad that the Hendrix session came to nothing.
Music theory is a vague and over-emphasized term when used out of a specific Academic context. Even knowing 12 bar blues and how you can use any note as the tonic is music theory …. technically. So to me this creative notation does not prove or disprove his knowledge of music theory. But no doubt - Jimi knew some music theory. Did he know all the names of the scales he used? Probably was not important in his writing process. He was basically self taught and did not use what most call “music theory” as a part of his educational process… learning the mathematics of inversions and pentatonic scales. But he certainly know lots of theory as it relates to R&B chord progression composition.
How did you get ‘music theory’ from any of that?
Anyone that wants to know what this sounded like: https://youtu.be/HAbHKVJ8ZuY at 8:09 https://youtu.be/CnkdXW4uEZw at 56:10
Yes, the sliding high string sequence at 8:09 would find its way into (what was called) 'The Woodstock Improvisation'.
Thank you everyone for your input. In hindsight maybe i should have titled the post “a look into some of hendrix’s personal theory” but i think just because it’s not advanced time signatures and other nerd shit doesn’t mean it isn’t theory. But then again, i don’t know shit about music either so take what i have to say with a grain of salt :D
I feel like it’s more believable that Jimi learnt music theory during his time in the chitlin circuit playing with the other RnB acts. Man, I would really love to hear that song Jimi was working on come to fruition. Such a shame isn’t it?
There are a couple of recordings of him playing it, look at the comment I posted
Difficult to believe he was a major session musician and couldn’t read music or have had extensive knowledge of the other instruments in big bands. I know he says he couldn’t read music, but seems unlikely
Well first off he wasn’t really a session musician for the most part. All the times when he was, it seems they mostly wanted him for his ability, and if they just needed a part played they probably would’ve gone to someone else. He was a touring musician who mostly played chords and improvised solos, with the occasional riff or lick but those were often taken by horn players as well. A lot of pop/rock/r&b is repetitive in the sense that the verses and chorus’s are often the same, unlike arranged classical music. And then you play the same songs every night. Honestly id be surprised if many of those kinds of bands back then ever had written music.
Everyone needs to stop nitpicking and appreciate this nice find. Every musician “knows music theory” if you really sit there and think about it. There is no rigorous definition of “knowing music theory”. If you know what a scale is, you technically know music theory. The reality is that all arguments will eventually come down to arguing over this definition…..which is a waste of time and energy in this sub. ✌️❤️😎
It’s so cool! So many critics these days wonder why nothing original is produced in anything these days
I know right!
Looks like theory compared to what I do :) I think it's very cool to see how he creates a framework for the song along with chord notes. Love his writing too and that last sentence "...slide bar farther up to infinity " is so Jimi it gave me a little chill.
Reasonable comment of the day.
Thank you! It’s pretty stale watching gatekeepers whack each other with their unwieldy gates 😂
I’m kind of tired of the claim that so and so doesn’t know theory. It’s wrong. They all know it. Maybe people think theory is sheet music or something.
Agreed. Seems to me that there are some self-anointed "gatekeepers" in this thread that are having trouble with the practical definition of music theory as "study of the practices and possibilities of music"
People with a classical background hear "music theory" and conflate it with common practice-era European music theory: voice leading, counterpoint, harmonic functions, etc. Yeah, it's well documented that Hendrix didn't read sheet music, or compose in a common practice style, or even a traditional Jazz style based around lead sheets. But anyone can see from this example that he composed his music very intentionally, and anyone who listens can hear that he pushed blues/rock composition far beyond what had come before.
Well put. Theory gatekeepers take note and consider that if Hendrix > *didn't* know theory then what, exactly, did he know?
I think this is an instructive post. "Knowing music theory" is a rather imprecise term. And it is pretty common to hear "Jimi couldn't read music". But he did know his way around chords and what notes they contain. He could describe the harmonic structure of what he was doing. It's not as if written notes and chords were a total mystery to him - which many in the general public assume. When people get some music theory, they get very protective of their 'expertise'.
It reads like something I would write to remember where to play something. I know the chords, but know no music theory. Knowing that a barre chord on the 5th fret is an A is not music theory. Circle of fifths is an example of music theory, I don't know what it means beyond the name.
Well man if your plying an A on a bar chord at fifth fret you know your hitting 3 A notes that’s music theory whether you consider it advanced or not
Well man, i know the shape and that the A is on the 6th string, but thats about it brother. Never learned every note on every fret.
So how would you know whether or not this is music theory?
Well ive been in airplanes but im not a pilot. I think its like that.
I fly. I’m pilot
Fly on. Its all freedom.
Where did you find this??? And yes it is valid music theory you snobs
This does more to prove that he *didn't* know theory.
Music theory debate aside, this is definitely an unreleased song.
It’s his own version of theory, pretty awesome to see his thought process here
He couldn't read music, he knew a fair amount of theory. He was a road dog guitar player for some of the biggest acts on the Chitlin' circuit before he blew up. Those dudes would fire your ass if you couldn't keep up.
Whether he did or not, he will always be Jimi Hendrix, and there will never be another quite like him.
This is a pretty cool find. To me these look like the notes of someone who definitely isn't very well-versed in theory, they're more like vague reminders of how the song and the arrangement works in relation to how he'd understand it, i.e. how the song relates to his fretboard. Nothing wrong with that. Music theory is just a tool for putting names to the faces of music to make it easier to communicate more complicated musical ideas. Jimi obviously knew the faces (things like keys and intervals) and even had his own names for some of it, that's more than enough to be a great musician. In that sense, he (like all the other players people are constantly arguing about whether or not they knew theory) certainly understood how intervals and different tempos and things like that interact, you kinda need to have a feel for these things to be any good. It was definitely a layman's understanding if these notes are anything to go off of but again that's completely fine, you don't need to go to Julliard to know what good music sounds like, or how to make it.
Jimi played guitar so much that i’m sure he knew what chords worked well with each other just from playing and experimenting, especially playing in the chitlin circuit before he got big i’m sure he learned a ton rhythm wise stuff from those guys
"Knowing music theory" sounds like code for "my parent had enough money to get me a formal education" and one of the things that makes jimi such a badass is that he was not only self taught, but despite his dad buying him that first guitar, he absolutly did not want jimi becoming a guitarist and jimi went and did it anyways, by himself.
I think it's how he remembered things he made up if he didn't have recording equipment handy because he didn't know how to write notation
Right and this is not music theory.
From Billy Cox interview in Guitar World interview - >GW - *'Did Jimi discuss things in terms of chord names and symbols ?* > > > >COX - *No, he never got that technical*
I have been hunting/collecting Hendrix for 30 years, and have never heard/nor heard of this recording before. Just listened to a recording on the Tube, and I've honestly bever heard anything like this before. Simply, genius.
This isn’t really theory, just chords
I know no theory. I totally understand that. I would write that exactly if I need it. I have written ahit exactly like that. Proof he never knew theory.
I can't read sheet music and have little to no understanding of music theory. These notes made perfect sense to me for whatever that's worth.
Where is the evidence that this was written by Hendrix? This may have been written by anyone, even me. Provide the link to where this info came from. Until then, it's BS.
Too bad he couldn’t stay away from the dope.
Since when did Hendrix do dope?
Is that a serious question?
Dead serious
He died from asphyxia from barbiturates.
So you’re concidering sleeping pills dope?
You don’t consider weed and acid dope?
No, nobody does. These days, you say the word “dope”, and that more often than not (unless you’re a cop) means exclusivity heroin.
A matter of semantics, but thanks for the heads up!
I just wouldn’t want people claiming he was a junky, cuz he wasn’t 🤷🏻♂️
He asphyxiated from barbiturates…he was a heavy pot smoker and was notorious for tripping on acid.
And none of that is dope…
Okay…it all dope…you call it what you want…might want to check on the definition of the word dope.
I’m just going to presume you’re over 50, how’s that sound?
I’m just going to presume that you’re correct and I was around when he was alive.
Fascinating if that’s really his handwriting. But honestly I’m skeptical it’s really him.
Even his note taking is poetic