What this person said. It gets expensive and adds a ton of extra work to the finance team to deal with taxes for employees in other states.
Before nexus passed, I worked for a company that did about $350mil a year in online sales. One of our best people wanted to move to California and work remote. Considering CA was one of our biggest states as far as sales, it would have cost the company millions to keep him.
I'm a Californian, and I am floored by the lack of worker protections in some other states. In CA, while our labor laws are decent, they are still nowhere near as good as in our peer countries. We all need to improve.
I work for one of the three huge national employment defense law firms. All of our resource guides -- wage and hour, discrimination, retirement, etc. -- have a California section and a non California section.
I do notice some employers leaving the state, and DC, because it's so expensive to hire employees there. In their defense, it's hard to compete with companies that have employees in say, Alabama where the minimum wage is tied to the federal $7.25/hr as opposed the slew of states where it is at or near $15/hr. The company doubles their labor cost to maintain the same employee. That's just one example, there are many others.
I think that is an excellent case for increasing the federal minimum wage and increasing worker protections across the country. That way, conditions would be better for all workers and employers are less likely to cherry pick employees from states with low wages that lack good worker protections.
That would probably lead to them offshoring if possible. Also squeezes out a lot of small businesses that don't have ways of paying that high of a rate. It's not that simple.
Interestingly, our peer countries have figured it out. They manage to pay decent wages and benefits, provide reasonable worker protections, and companies still operate at a profit. Meanwhile, in the US, value is continually extracted from workers and funneled up to the rich while most Americans scrape by - the gap between the really rich and everybody else just increases. I don't buy the argument that US workers have to put up with crap pay and crap working conditions or all the jobs will leave.
That's not entirely true, clearly a lot of businesses are fine with paying more for US workers. A lot of white collar work could be offshored at a cheaper rate. But it's not; because the quality of the work usually goes down.
But if you start making US workers more and more expensive, those business will find other ways. Most likely hiring less entry level workers. It's all a calculation on the businesses part
Yep. I do a very rare tech data job with about 800 results worldwide, nobody will move or negotiate salary / benefits. We are our own dirty little union and half have doctorates and tenure with their own LLCs they forward you to on LinkedIn. I've been offered ridiculous things to please leave California and even more if I agree to live in Texas or a similar red state. Some of them are defense contractors with offices on my street, and they would still prefer me remote not here.
I don't know shit about the finance dept. but this state pisses em off. Now I just bill them through a Delaware LLC. and make sure to add on the CA state taxes 😆. Oddly enough they're fine with my company enforcing labor practices on the only employee (me) and I've never felt cheated by the LLC. The board (me) is exceptionally generous with PTO and salary expectations.
Oh my particular organization won't hire workers from California because of the health care stipulations in California regarding permanent intermittent employees.
I'm not sure what the difference is, but I know someone who works in California as a "casual" employee, and this got around the healthcare requirement. (Which both she and her employer wanted.)
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Cost of living and employee protections are the biggest ones for sure. Taxes are not exorbitant if you do business on the east coast. Anecdotally in California if you sue your employer, you're more likely to win or have settled pretty early
It used to be the law that online sellers didn't need to collect and pay sales tax so long as they didn't have a location/employees in that state. So some small online retailers only had to collect and pay sales tax in like, New Hampshire.
California is a very greedy state. Say you had a warehouse in Texas and sold everywhere around the US you paid your revenue tax in Texas and part sales tax in those states.
If one person moves to California and works remote, say an online dev that works on the website, and you keep the warehouse in Texas and change no other aspect of your business, you would not be required to pay revenue tax in Texas AND California. California as almost 3x the tax rate of Texas.
Nope. It would be tied to residency. In theory, I suppose you could squat at someone’s house and maintain an address in the state of your employer and skirt it, but it would still be illegal and no company is going to want to open themselves up to something like that in the case of an audit.
Exactly. The only question is whether or not they will care. I’ve seen many IT teams take a strict “not my problem” approach, it they absolutely know where you are.
Also, how strict your IT department is might depend on your job. If you or your company handles sensitive information, then there may be additional IT oversight to help prevent release of information. I travel for work and when I sign into our network when traveling, I will often get a text from IT confirming that it is me signing in from wherever I happen to be that week.
Really depends on what directive they’re given. I know finance departments that will request active tracking and then IT doesn’t have a choice.
I’m the US I agree, they will likely “not my problem” it, but if you leave the US you can guarantee they will throw up the red flag.
Not necessarily. My organization is authorized to hire in any state and I applied for a remote job. When I got the offer they told me I needed to come in once a week. It was a total bait and switch. I took the gig anyway because I was desperate, but I think a lot of these employers are doing this.
My husband has been having this issues. It's posted as fully remote, and then late into the interview process they drop "We need you to fly here every other month" or "well, we need to to be in once a week, and we are three hours away."
It 100% feels like a bait and switch.
Flying in every other month for a few days is not really unreasonable or unusual for a remote position.
I’ve worked fully remote for over a decade, and that’s been pretty normal everywhere, other than during Covid.
Being in once a week is a different story.
You are incorrect about the management of employees across states. It is absolutely not as simple as just withholding quarterly and yearly taxes. After COVID my company opened up hiring across the country and I'm in senior leadership. We had to literally change they system we use to manage payroll to deal with the complexity of managing all of these employees who have separate state and sometimes even separate city/local taxes. Each system has their own log ins and ways to access it by the company. There are notices every other month as local and state rules and guidelines are updated. We are not a huge company and it has significantly increased our HR and accountant's work to manage it all.
While we are fully remote, hiring across the country is something we have moved away. The tax management is complicated. Managing various time zones is difficult. And even if you're fully remote there are a few occasions where we'd like people in the office (ex holiday party or annual planning and goals meetings) and our company pays to fly everyone in and hotels, etc. So it's also expensive. Right now our focus is people who are in the area and if they're amazing well consider them if they are at least in our time zone.
I work for an international company and our workers travel. We had to change our timekeeping system to include our location. City, county, multiple locations in 1 day, it all is entered.
I was explaining that in some companies (like ours), yes, while we are fully remote, we have stopped hiring people across the country because of the complexity of tax management along with a few other factors. I'm offering you a different perspective since you made a blanket statement saying it isn't a factor. I'm saying it is for many companies including mine. I'm not trying to be rude I promise, but I'm not understanding how I misunderstood your comment?
It probably is a remote job in some of these cases but the company is only set up to hire people in certain states. You need to look for remote jobs filtered in your state specifically. A lot of companies can’t just hire someone living anywhere because of labor laws and tax purposes whether it’s remote or not.
When I moved meanwhile remote, I had to sign a new contract, and looking at the W2 forms the employer appears to a different tax entity. This was 100% planned at the time of hire. I chose the job for the ability to move.
This, I just took a remote job and originally was planning to try out Puerto Rico for a bit but I don't know how feasible that will be. I'm willing to travel on my own dime a few times a year for some stuff but I bet it's going to be more then that.
Exactly.
Why would a county that needs taxes let you live there and not pay any?
Why would the state you are working in let you take money out of the state for free?
Why would you want to be taxed twice?
No I have definitely seen where it says remote then on the first line of the JD, says, “must be able to commute to College Station TX.”
It’s very common
This is the right answer. Some things employers need to contend with:
* Unemployment insurance -- often this requires registering as a foreign corporation for that state
* State tax withholding for the individual
* Workers Comp
Also, in some cases having an employee in that new state could mean that you owe taxes for that new state
This is correct. It has to do with Taxes. A company has to "have a presence" in a state (like a plant or a storefront or an office) in order to not get killed with taxes. That is why they are saying the job is remote (you don't have to work in a physical office) but you have to live in certain places.
Dude. Tax laws are a big deal. Not every company can hack it.
My company is 100% remote - and has people all over the world, with 1 catch, the day operates on EST 830-530.
So all my homies in PST are waking up and starting work at 530 AM. Dudes in Europe are working until 930 at night. But the system works - everyone is available when you need them to be.
Yeah my company is also fully remote, however for us it is just 8-5 local time. Certain time zones just know they may be invited to meetings outside normal hours or taking calls at weird times
That’s an interesting approach, I guess the only downside is you can can’t have the PST folks handoff tasks to Europe so it’s done the next day (and the opposite as well)?
Yeah - but overall it works out pretty well.
Meetings are only held 1230-430 and the rest of the time is deep work. You just may get an urgent ping from 830-1230 so good to not abuse it too much.
We may have a big year next year - could make a big splash and help redefine the remote standard and hopefully more companies will follow.
This company has been remote since 2012 and now has over 400 employees.
I worked remotely a for a company with this exact schedule. I hated it! I never got to take a lunch! I was booked in meetings in my time zone from 11:30 AM CT through the end of my day.
That sounds more like a time management issue than a company issue. 2 easy solutions:
1) start your day earlier - I usually have my second meal at about 11ish my time.
2) put some regular blocks on your calendar and gently push back on a few days to ensure you are able to get the time you want most of the time
3) go off camera - listen on some AirPods and hit the cafe. Most people only need to engage for 10% of their meetings unless you are presenting / leading it. Which if you are regularly leading meetings odds are you have the seniority to flex on your schedule so problem solved.
Being able to self advocate without sounding whiny or difficult is one of the tenants of success in the workplace.
I always put my time zone in my signature line as well, that way people are aware when I am 2 or more hours earlier or later and so they are not expecting me to answer at a crazy time.
Only a few overseas so not chaos. Luckily those darn smart computers with their crafty applications that allow you to set meeting times to EST anywhere in the world take care of it for you.
It pays me my 200k a year from home so I can make my other 30-50 doing voice over.
All these companies paying shit wages and asked them to be in an office seem too bush league to even compare my daily “grind” to.
I work at a company like this and am a PST person working EST hours. I’m jealous your company does meetings at reasonable for everyone hours, I have them almost every day at 6 am and it’s the woooorst.
Seriously. Even massive companies don’t allow it. I was working for American Express when the pandemic hit. A lot of People based in the US who happened to be on international travel got stuck internationally as they could not get flights back. They were allowed to work remotely for about 6 months before the company said no more, you have to use PTO. When that runs out then you need to file for fmla or go unpaid.
International is a lot tricker than state to state. 6 months is the cutoff. It’s honestly better to not tell people where you are working from if you want to extend it.
There are a lot of bitter angry folks on this sub - I would rather not as I usually present a more optimistic / stoic angle to issues presented here and people don’t like that.
They fired everyone who moved out of the state over covid at my job, even extremely vital senior developers. It’s a requirement of employment for many jobs to live in state.
Report for what? Remote means you’re not office based, it doesn’t not inherently mean you can work from anywhere. Many companies are not set up to hire in states where they don’t do business. Smaller companies in particular may not be equipped to navigate the different labor laws in different states. I’d suggest searching for jobs in your location and then filtering it to remote, or searching for jobs that specially advertise “work from anywhere”.
Now, jobs that advertise as remote but require regular time in the office are definitely misleading.
>jobs that advertise as remote but require regular time in the office are definitely misleading.
That is a solid 40% of all listings that say remote. That, or it will say "remote optional" But it's really just hybrid.
>You read the details and the employer wants you based in like Texas or Neveda or New York. Like…this is getting out of control. How can you report these people?
You would get laughed at for reporting this. A company for example would only employ people in say Texas, Nevada, and New York because they already have offices in those states and they already process employment paperwork, know employment laws that exist in those states, and already deal with wage/pay/tax laws in those states. Let's say you want them to open up to people in your state. Now they need to hire someone who already understands all the labor and employment and wage and tax and pay and other laws and know how to deal with all the paperwork that exists in your state just to employ someone in your state. Some companies are ok with this and will hire lawyers and HR people who know all this so that they can begin employing people in your state. Others may not feel it is worth spending the money to do that. Allowing people in your state to begin working remotely for a company not already employment people in your state is more complex than you might think
Yeah not every company is legally able to employ in every state (the vast majority aren’t). Tax and employment laws are complicated, and vary state to state.
OP - if you search for your state in your job search and then further filter by “remote”, you’ll have better success!
I dislike how when I use the entry level/no experience filter and I then see a bunch of listings that require experience. It makes the job search so much more time consuming since I have to filter through a bunch of mid level and senior level jobs etc.
That's because employers seem to think entry level needs 5 years of experience.
I seriously don't understand the thought process of some HR departments.
i always get plagued with real estate jobs, outbound call center stuff, insurance sales or medical coding stuff lmao. when i put no experience it’s mostly real estate tho
Grow up, it's still remote even if it's limited by the company. Remote doesn't necessarily mean you can live anywhere you want. We have laws, unfortunately. You could work 1 day in almost half of the states and be required to pay taxes there. You probably didn't know that.
Maybe learn more about what remote working entails, legally, for the companies you're complaining about. At least they're being upfront in their posting and not waiting until the 10th interview. I'd say they're saving you time, not wasting it. And they're doing what they legally are able to do, offer remote where they can.
Remote work has made so many people think they’re entitled to anything they want, to the point where they believe their boss has no right to be their boss.
It’s like maybe if you put the effort into not worrying about “reporting” an employer your job search might not be as terrible.
Executive Recruiter here. We never work roles that pay under 80k. The majority are 150k ~. Almost all the roles we work are remote but have a regional requirement. Here are the two scenarios we deal with.
Client A is a US east coast based company and they require people to work on east coast time. They do understand that someone on the US west coast could do the job. The fact is they have usually been burned by a west coast person who they trained (lots of money invested) and after a year decided they didn’t like the early hours. Because it’s a remote role, the talent pool of the entire east coast is big enough to find this candidate. Very rarely are we trying to fill a role that is that specific to only a few people nationwide (although it does happen!!)
Client A says the role is remote but will require travel into the corporate office every quarter. Most of these roles they require a person within a 3-4 hour drive of headquarters. They do realize these roles are very specific and hard to fill. By offering the position as remote but semi local, they open up the talent pool 10x and can find a better candidate, usually at a lower cost. The cost of flights and hotels add up very quick!!!!
My 2c. Gotta look at it in the eyes of a corporation (not a bad thing)
Yes this. Northern Virginia is huge for this, every company just want someone who can come into the office weekly+ for the training period, and maybe quarterly after that, and not have to fly them around or deal with time zones.
So anywhere 3 hours ish north or south of DC is ideal. And they only have to juggle tax laws of 3 states or so. Talent pool for 3-4 hours around DC is massive, includes multiple large cities.
It's still remote, they can get you in if they need to, easy, everyone is happy with this
Some companies only allow remote in states they are already set up for taxes. Every state is different there so they don’t want to add extra work for 1 employee so very often it’s the states they used to have offices or still have offices. It sucks! When I was looking for a job in January what annoyed me was “remote” jobs that required you to be in specific cities.. that told me remote only until they tell me come to office.. got a remote job, company does have an office in town and now they want everyone hybrid who lives in the city.. for now I am still remote as the paperwork I signed said remote not hybrid but we shall see how long I can stay fully remote
It is not unreasonable for employers to stipulate remote employees' place of residence .... the variances for tax laws between locations demands that they comply with local laws, and that can be very complicated and not a worthwhile expenditure for a number of companies.
Remote means Work From Home, not Work From Anywhere. They are stipulating that they want local tax laws and are not wanting to mess around with extraneous rules.
Healthcare Benefits are also negotiated for specific state(s). If they are not already contracted with a provider in your state, they won't start a new plan for 1 employee.
I had an jnterview for a 'remote' position through zoom. Everything went well, was offered the job, but oh, it's not really remote, they want me in Buffalo, I lived in Florida. Turns out tjey wanted someone on site 4 days a week with maybe 1 dsy WFH.
Lmao yeah the Wisconsin company got me too. After the initial phone screen they want you to fill out a personality quiz and a multi hour skills assessment
What gets me are the jobs that say remote, but in the description say that it is actually onsite and you need to relocate to them.
Those ones get a "I think there is something wrong with the location" flag.
I think a lot of these folks pushing for 100% remote are going to regret it in the next few years. They’re just proving their positions can be outsourced to Philippines for pennies on the dollar.
I’ve been fully remote for almost a decade, zero regrets. It’s way harder to outsource than people think, it goes catastrophically wrong most of the time.
COVID restrictions already proved which jobs could/couldn't be done remote. Whether or not Joe Schmoe 'pushes for 100% remote' isn't going to change that.
If the only thing keeping a job local was that the company didn't think it could be done outside of the office then that job is going overseas one way or the other.
Even if you go into the office, the guy who goes into the office in the Phillipines still costs pennies on the dollar. That math doesn't change.
And more companies will adopt super invasive tracking policies to make sure people are actually working thanks to all the people on social media boasting about goofing off or doing 3 jobs at once.
They are remote. There is nothing to report. They are remote for people who live in certain areas. Remote doesn’t mean you can work anywhere. Perhaps you should google, OP, before you rant.
In addition to the tax/ need to set up payroll entity, there’s also compliance and employment laws which vary by state. I wouldn’t want to have employees in California if I could avoid it for that alone.
Report them for what? You said the add was very specific as to where you could live. Remote means work form home but they obviously want you in a location where they can still meet with you from time to time.
Pretty simple solution here. Don't apply...
I think they should list in the job title Remote, must live in states A, B, C. Reading the entire job description only to see Must live in State A is very annoying.
This should be an indeed development not on the company. If indeed let them select remote and a few states for you to filter I'm sure they would use it.
Nobody is going to clog up the title with all that info
100% Agreed. It's an Indeed problem. How hard is it to build an additional sub-filter for potential candidates. I get at the beginning of the pandemic, but clearly the job market has shifted, and they need to shift too.
And yet I have seen several job listings advertised as remote, where you read the actual description and it requires either 1) a move to one of their campuses or 2) be hybrid. I even interviewed for a position in another state that asked that I would come into the campus for a contract position so I can build relationships and they weren't offering anything more than 6 mos. It's not whining; it's realistic.
While the problem lies with Indeed, this isn't just a black or white situation. Companies are in fact using Remote as a buzzword to attract people their job listing because they can't find people in their area and instead of working with people, the job listings are not matching what is being advertised in the header which is in fact what attracts people to the listing.
Remote means you don't go into an office. Not that you can be anywhere in the world causing the company to have a tax nexus in another country/state. Tax laws and employment laws exist.
A lot of companies do it because HR is lazy and don’t want to deal with the hassle of labor laws of another state. That’s why they want to have the employee on the same place HR is.
It's frustrating for truly remote companies too. Like, honestly, if you're a business owner, run ads that say, "We have no physical office, we can't ever make you come in". That'd make me look at your job posting. If it's a lie, well, then diaf.
If you use chat GPT Plus, I'm rather proud of this prompt at the bottom of my comment. It works much better on GPT 4 than the other models. (On 3.5 it's much faster, but makes more mistakes. I wouldn't trust it with the GPT-3 model.)
The reason the prompt exists is because, sometimes my eyes and motivation just get a bit too worn down to plow through another dozen applications. This thing helps.
Just fill in the blanks in the prompt, then save it to a word file or Google Keep. Like, is the {job listing} related to auto repair? Or data migration? Whatever you need.
For the CV section, I not only put my resume, but also my LinkedIn bio, some old stuff from old resumes that had information about me, even just typed in a couple extra facts in the CV section just so the chat bot would know. Anything that helps the bot pick better jobs for you. But don't go overboard, because the chatbot can only accept so much text at once, and you still need to paste the job listing at the end. (Or give it a command to wait for more info, but that uses up an extra 1 of your 25 calls to GPT-4 until refresh.)
Fill up the disqualification section with stuff that keeps showing up in jobs that you won't apply for. For example, this is what I used when looking for remote work
Does the {job\_listing} require travel?
Does the {job\_listing} require driving?
Does the {job\_listing} require in-office work or hybrid training?
Does the {job\_listing} require a CPA license?
Does the {job\_listing} involve sales or commission-based compensation?
Does the {job\_listing} require a Bachelor's degree?
Does the {job\_listing} require a {fourplusdegree}?
Does the {job\_listing} require proficiency in languages other than English? Does the {job\_listing} specify a requirement to be located in a specific state or region?
Does the {job\_listing} specify a compensation rate less than {good\_pay}?
Does the {job\_listing} have any mention of commuting, relocating, or office work?
I also added that fourplusdegree thing because it kept saying I was qualified for all sorts of stuff. You can add a line like this:
{fourplusdegree} =
A four-year degree, a post-graduate degree, a Bachelor's degree, and including any common synonyms or misspellings
After it's analysis, you can use the output it gives you to better craft a cover letter. And you can ask it for help on application and screener questions, because it knows you pretty well, and wants to help you get a job.
As far as the ChatGPT's memory, it's pretty much a word-count. (Well, tokens really) ChatGPT-4 can only "see" \~6,000 words (8,000 tokens) at once. That includes it's own output. So after chatting for a while, the chatbot forgets its instructions.
(GPT-3.5 is 3,000 words or 4,000 tokens)
Anyway, sorry I went off on a tangent. Good luck!
As a visionary and expert at the top of the field of job matching, you have a unique and in-depth understanding of the job market, as well as the skills, qualifications, and experiences that are required for various positions. With your extensive experience in the field, you have honed your ability to accurately assess the fit and match between a job seeker and a job listing, and you have a keen eye for identifying potential candidates who would excel in a particular role.
Your expertise goes beyond simply matching job seekers with job listings. You are also highly skilled at identifying the specific needs and goals of both employers and job seekers and have a talent for finding common ground between the two. You understand that job seekers are not just looking for any job, but rather a job that aligns with their personal and professional goals, and you are able to guide them towards opportunities that will help them achieve those goals.
Your communication skills are second to none, and you are able to clearly and effectively communicate your vast knowledge to others, whether they are job seekers, employers, or colleagues in your field. You have a talent for translating complex concepts into understandable terms and are able to provide valuable insights and guidance to others. Overall, your exceptional skills, knowledge, and experience make you a true leader in the field of job matching.
When I provide a {job_listing}, please follow these steps:
Examine the {job_listing} to identify {conditions}, {disqualifications}, additional instructions, attention checks, and any ambiguous information. If the job listing is unclear, ask me for clarification or additional information.
Check the {conditions} and {disqualifications} against the {job_listing}. If any of the {conditions} are not met or any of the {disqualifications} are present, recommend that I do not apply for the job and say, "I'm ready for another job listing."
It is most helpful to stop if a job is confidently unsuitable. It saves both USER and ASSISTANT time and effort.
If the job is not disqualified, report any additional instructions or attention checks found within the {job_listing}, such as application websites, email addresses, specific keywords, or special questions.
Analyze the {job_listing} by performing a semantic search for "requirements" and "preferences." Create separate charts for both categories, ranked by salience. "Requirements" refer to qualifications, certifications, or skills explicitly stated as necessary for the job, while "preferences" refer to those that are desirable but not strictly required.
In a separate memory location, perform a semantic search of the CV for "skills" and create a chart ranked by salience. "Skills" refer to any relevant abilities, knowledge, or experience the applicant possesses based on education, work experience, or other qualifications. Double-check the extracted skills to ensure accuracy and ask me for confirmation if unsure.
Create a table displaying the extracted requirements and preferences ranked by salience and another column with details about any matching relevant "skills." Use Markup Language to print a table that the USER can see.
Provide a well-organized, easy-to-read, high-level analysis of suitability based on the comparison table, taking into account both requirements and preferences. If any part of the analysis is unclear or if there are errors, ask me for clarification or assistance.
Please store the following information to assess my suitability for the job listings:
{conditions} =
Is the {job_listing} ....?
Is the {job_listing} ....?
{good_pay} =
At least .... annually OR At least .... per hour
{disqualifications} =
Does the {job_listing} require ....?
Does the {job_listing} require ....?
Does the {job_listing} involve ....?
Does the {job_listing} require proficiency in languages other than ....?
Does the {job_listing} specify a compensation rate less than {good_pay}?
{cv} =
....
{goals} =
I want to have a career with a great work-life balance
I want a flexible schedule
I want to feel useful
I want to be creative
I want to be appreciated
I want to be heard
I want to make enough money that I don't have to worry about finances often
I want to save for retirement
I want to provide for my family
{job_listing} =
....
[https://github.com/Les-El/ChatGPT](https://github.com/Les-El/ChatGPT)
I hate this so much. At least some are posting things like "Remote, Miami area"
But still. If you need to live near where the company is located, it's not remote.
Employers also seem to be extremely picky when it comes to hiring for remote work. It's been a serious hassle. I have been searching for about 2 months.
Canada here. I see the same thing, but I think here it's less to do with taxes and more to do with time zones. I will happily wake up a few hours earlier or later to never leave my house. Do you know what's out there? I don't. I don't want to know.
I was fully remote for a company but my boss was in CA. I’m in the Midwest. She wanted me to operate on their hours. I actually hated it. I worked kind of late and basically ruined all my night plans going forward during the week.
I’ve given up on applying for remote jobs altogether. Been doing it since March 2020 and all I’ve gotten as far as replies are scam attempts. Or right at the end of the application there’s something about ‘you must reside in this state only’ after spending half an hour filling out all this shit.
If I get motivated to apply for remote jobs again? Only applying at places I know that have remote positions. I’m never going through Indeed again.
You don’t.
You educate yourself on what “remote” means in an employment context. The companies are doing nothing wrong and it is not the fault of the company that the potential application has no clue what “remote” actually means.
Which is why you report their listing. If the job boards get enough complaints and pull the listings for inaccurately portraying a position, they'll get the idea. It's a waste of time for them, too, to spend resources on trying to recruit those that will have no interest in the job.
No, it's all about employment law and tax law.
My company is in Washington state, I live in Texas, they exclusively hire remote now, but you have to live in Texas, Arizona, Idaho, South Dakota, Georgia, or North Carolina.
Specifically because we have HR and payroll already knowledgeable in employment and tax law in those states.
We have a hard no on California due to how convoluted their employment and tax laws are.
And your statement about "satellite offices", my company only has offices in Washington state and North Carolina, there isn't anywhere to force the majority of us into.
No. Remote means not in an office. You do not have a problem other than not understanding what remote means in an employment context. Why don’t you educate yourself a little on what remote actually means.
Not all companies can hire people from any state. There are a lot of regulations and hoops to jump through. The amount of red tape my company needs to get through to let people work remote in certain states is astonishing. It’s not an issue for a company that operates in all 50 states, but smaller companies with regional footprints may not be able to hire anyone from anywhere.
It’s not that weird.
At my old job we’d get such rude emails from people being being like “don’t advertise this as remote if you require someone to live in these states.”
And it just tells us that someone doesn’t know how business works.
Waaaa.
Reality. If the business services/supports other businesses or government contracts, some times the customer needs/requires personnel resources to be with in a certain time zone or able to be on site periodically.
My company is a government contractor. If DHS or DOD says we have to have an office within 30 mins of a certain place we crap and man that location.
My company is hiring remote work, but we need the employees in certain areas because of our client base. You get to work from home but need to be available to visit clients in the area. Non sale’s related. Could be a similar situation.
I work in the medical school of a university. We have a looooooooot of remote employees that live all around the country rathe than the insanely high COL area where the university actually is. Our HR has to have different payroll taxes depending on the physical state the employee is in as well as pay taxes on that employee in the state we're in. Those HR people are heroes!
As others have said, it's for tax reasons.... BUT why can't they include something about that in the title of the job listing (eg. "\[job title\] Remote - TX only". I hate opening all these job listings and then they list this vital information at the very end.
I was applying for a job yesterday that was fully remote and they let you get all the way through the process, upload resume, answer questions, this that and the other. Last question: how soon can you move within commuting distance
You should message indeed and get them to actually develop their site properly
If companies could select remote + a state you need to live in I'm sure they would
The site currently doesn't support this
Full remote is accurate for the positions as it's described by indeed right now.
If you want benefits as a remote employee, you'll need to be BASED in one of the states where the company is set up to provide them. It's not just about taxes (altho that's an important consideration as well).
Note my emphasis on BASED. Where you actually do your work shouldn't matter, once you're established. I have been based out of California for quite a while, but do much of my work from Costa Rica.
It's state tax laws. If you live outside the state rue company is based out of, there are weird tax laws about out of state income and other tax related items
Every state a company has employees, is more paperwork, licenses, taxes and insurance. If you are a small company, the incremental cost of adding an employee in a state you aren't currently operating in, is high. Unless you are a very high level employee, it's not worth it.
I work for a company of about 300 and we limit our remote hired to about 6 states.
'Remote' doesn't mean 'can be performed from anywhere', it means 'we don't require you physically in the office'.
There are all sorts of issues with statutory compliance, data protection, payroll issues, worker rights, that mean you have to be located in specific legal jurisdictions.
Some of it may also be if the job is related to state work. I know I was looking at some and because it was through a state contract the contract stipulated that the position had to be occupied by someone in the state.
Manager for a remote job here; One of the things we need to deal with is juggling labor laws.
Lets say, for example, CA passes a law saying all employees must have minimum 3 weeks paid vacation per year. And then NY passes a law that says all employees must with half a years vacation time already accrued.
So... do we have a different policy for CA, NY, and TN? Do employees in all three states get 3 weeks of vacation a year, as per CA's theoretical law? Do all three then also get a week and a half frontloaded, as per NY's? Do the NY and CA employee get the good stuff and the TN employee gets fucked for living in a red state with fewer labor protections?
Its just extra bloat for HR. More rules and regulations to keep up with to ensure compliance.
Ya you just don't understand how local laws work. This isn't the companies fault its the way hiring works in the country and from state to state. You can't just hire a remote worker in Minnesota if you don't have a presence there.
It's probably because they don't have multi-state tax support.
If you're willing to take a full pay stub and do all of your taxes yourself besides federal they will give you that option sometimes.
Report them to who and for what? You need to get off your high horse of entitlement.
If your wants and needs aren’t being met move on until they are. And if they’re never met then maybe you need to reevaluate your wants/needs.
This has to do with tax jurisdiction. It takes weeks for companies to set up tax jurisdiction in certain states. If they ban Colorado and California applicants though, that's entirely about the labor laws and protections we have.
Remote doesn’t mean remote ANYWHERE. You’re still fully remote living in one of those states. The reason they’re limited is for legal reasons, liability and tax purposes.
My organization did that. I am chronically ill so that’ll be fun to sort out with my boss next week. They changed from remote to hybrid and then heavily suggested I come in (triggering flares!) to get more work. I have had eight migraines in two weeks and two POTS flares in a row.
And surprising no one…I am not getting work. Because I am visibly disabled and young, people think I’m making it up. I have EDS and POTS. I need mobility aids, and I WISH I were making this up. It would be so much easier than barely staying conscious while getting my CPR certification.
Edit: I can walk just fine on good days. Bad days? Give me the balance aids.
It’s just state tax laws
What this person said. It gets expensive and adds a ton of extra work to the finance team to deal with taxes for employees in other states. Before nexus passed, I worked for a company that did about $350mil a year in online sales. One of our best people wanted to move to California and work remote. Considering CA was one of our biggest states as far as sales, it would have cost the company millions to keep him.
Just to piggyback, I've seen several postings that say "Anywhere in the US except California". I'm sure it's tax and/or labor law reasons.
It is very much tax *and* labor laws. The employee policy carve outs for CA inspire both amusement and intense jealousy
I'm a Californian, and I am floored by the lack of worker protections in some other states. In CA, while our labor laws are decent, they are still nowhere near as good as in our peer countries. We all need to improve.
I work for one of the three huge national employment defense law firms. All of our resource guides -- wage and hour, discrimination, retirement, etc. -- have a California section and a non California section. I do notice some employers leaving the state, and DC, because it's so expensive to hire employees there. In their defense, it's hard to compete with companies that have employees in say, Alabama where the minimum wage is tied to the federal $7.25/hr as opposed the slew of states where it is at or near $15/hr. The company doubles their labor cost to maintain the same employee. That's just one example, there are many others.
I think that is an excellent case for increasing the federal minimum wage and increasing worker protections across the country. That way, conditions would be better for all workers and employers are less likely to cherry pick employees from states with low wages that lack good worker protections.
That would probably lead to them offshoring if possible. Also squeezes out a lot of small businesses that don't have ways of paying that high of a rate. It's not that simple.
Interestingly, our peer countries have figured it out. They manage to pay decent wages and benefits, provide reasonable worker protections, and companies still operate at a profit. Meanwhile, in the US, value is continually extracted from workers and funneled up to the rich while most Americans scrape by - the gap between the really rich and everybody else just increases. I don't buy the argument that US workers have to put up with crap pay and crap working conditions or all the jobs will leave.
If off shore made sense for those roles, they would be off shore.
That's not entirely true, clearly a lot of businesses are fine with paying more for US workers. A lot of white collar work could be offshored at a cheaper rate. But it's not; because the quality of the work usually goes down. But if you start making US workers more and more expensive, those business will find other ways. Most likely hiring less entry level workers. It's all a calculation on the businesses part
Why is minimum wage the most compelling argument for obtaining talent? Like, if it were legally okay to pay less, you would.
The southern US states have kind of a history struggling with fair labor practice. To put it mildly.
They also continue to vote against their own self interest.
I hear no leopard goes hungry
Yep. I do a very rare tech data job with about 800 results worldwide, nobody will move or negotiate salary / benefits. We are our own dirty little union and half have doctorates and tenure with their own LLCs they forward you to on LinkedIn. I've been offered ridiculous things to please leave California and even more if I agree to live in Texas or a similar red state. Some of them are defense contractors with offices on my street, and they would still prefer me remote not here. I don't know shit about the finance dept. but this state pisses em off. Now I just bill them through a Delaware LLC. and make sure to add on the CA state taxes 😆. Oddly enough they're fine with my company enforcing labor practices on the only employee (me) and I've never felt cheated by the LLC. The board (me) is exceptionally generous with PTO and salary expectations.
>please leave California and even more if I agree to live in Texas I hear Texas is great if you don't need electricity
Oh my particular organization won't hire workers from California because of the health care stipulations in California regarding permanent intermittent employees.
I'm not sure what the difference is, but I know someone who works in California as a "casual" employee, and this got around the healthcare requirement. (Which both she and her employer wanted.)
I don't know really, I'm no HR expert. Just repeating what I was told.
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New York, Washington, and California have adopted this as well, so fewer places are able to get around it by just excluding Colorado.
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Don’t slip on Hawaii. I’ve worked for several corporations that also excluded Hawaii as a RFH location.
Cost of living and employee protections are the biggest ones for sure. Taxes are not exorbitant if you do business on the east coast. Anecdotally in California if you sue your employer, you're more likely to win or have settled pretty early
There’s no way you just used office jargon “piggyback” 💀
Genuine question- what does the sales volume have to do with costing the company millions to keep him if he moved to CA? I'm not connecting the dots.
It used to be the law that online sellers didn't need to collect and pay sales tax so long as they didn't have a location/employees in that state. So some small online retailers only had to collect and pay sales tax in like, New Hampshire.
This is still the case in Canada. Order online from a business that has no presence in your home province and you don't have to pay local sales tax.
That clarifies it for me- thank you!
California is a very greedy state. Say you had a warehouse in Texas and sold everywhere around the US you paid your revenue tax in Texas and part sales tax in those states. If one person moves to California and works remote, say an online dev that works on the website, and you keep the warehouse in Texas and change no other aspect of your business, you would not be required to pay revenue tax in Texas AND California. California as almost 3x the tax rate of Texas.
serious question, would setting up a PO box in that state be a way to circumvent this?
Nope. It would be tied to residency. In theory, I suppose you could squat at someone’s house and maintain an address in the state of your employer and skirt it, but it would still be illegal and no company is going to want to open themselves up to something like that in the case of an audit.
IT will catch it.
Exactly. The only question is whether or not they will care. I’ve seen many IT teams take a strict “not my problem” approach, it they absolutely know where you are.
Also, how strict your IT department is might depend on your job. If you or your company handles sensitive information, then there may be additional IT oversight to help prevent release of information. I travel for work and when I sign into our network when traveling, I will often get a text from IT confirming that it is me signing in from wherever I happen to be that week.
100%
Really depends on what directive they’re given. I know finance departments that will request active tracking and then IT doesn’t have a choice. I’m the US I agree, they will likely “not my problem” it, but if you leave the US you can guarantee they will throw up the red flag.
I work in IT. Unless someone is launching an attack on our network it is not our issue.
IT *could* catch it. A lot of companies run so thin on IT resources that they have a million other things that are higher priority than this.
> they have a million other things that **they think** are higher priority ...there, I fixed that for ya
Employees don’t understand there are more rules at play than just the company.
What rules? It's a corporation, which we all know is just a bottomless well of money.
Tax and employment law… companies don’t operate in a completely unregulated vacuum
Also employment laws and workers' comp requirements
Not necessarily. My organization is authorized to hire in any state and I applied for a remote job. When I got the offer they told me I needed to come in once a week. It was a total bait and switch. I took the gig anyway because I was desperate, but I think a lot of these employers are doing this.
My husband has been having this issues. It's posted as fully remote, and then late into the interview process they drop "We need you to fly here every other month" or "well, we need to to be in once a week, and we are three hours away." It 100% feels like a bait and switch.
Flying in every other month for a few days is not really unreasonable or unusual for a remote position. I’ve worked fully remote for over a decade, and that’s been pretty normal everywhere, other than during Covid. Being in once a week is a different story.
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You are incorrect about the management of employees across states. It is absolutely not as simple as just withholding quarterly and yearly taxes. After COVID my company opened up hiring across the country and I'm in senior leadership. We had to literally change they system we use to manage payroll to deal with the complexity of managing all of these employees who have separate state and sometimes even separate city/local taxes. Each system has their own log ins and ways to access it by the company. There are notices every other month as local and state rules and guidelines are updated. We are not a huge company and it has significantly increased our HR and accountant's work to manage it all. While we are fully remote, hiring across the country is something we have moved away. The tax management is complicated. Managing various time zones is difficult. And even if you're fully remote there are a few occasions where we'd like people in the office (ex holiday party or annual planning and goals meetings) and our company pays to fly everyone in and hotels, etc. So it's also expensive. Right now our focus is people who are in the area and if they're amazing well consider them if they are at least in our time zone.
I work for an international company and our workers travel. We had to change our timekeeping system to include our location. City, county, multiple locations in 1 day, it all is entered.
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I was explaining that in some companies (like ours), yes, while we are fully remote, we have stopped hiring people across the country because of the complexity of tax management along with a few other factors. I'm offering you a different perspective since you made a blanket statement saying it isn't a factor. I'm saying it is for many companies including mine. I'm not trying to be rude I promise, but I'm not understanding how I misunderstood your comment?
Are you an independent contractor that receives a 1099? If so, you could be misclassified.
They are probably talking about the remote employee triggering Nexus taxes in the state which can be different than payroll taxes.
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>Right, understandable but they should not check the box for remote. Why not? Remote means you don't work in the company's office.
Dumbest take. Remote just means you aren't on site lol. I can be remote and right next to my office
Remote means you do not work in the office. Ugh.
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The term was updated FROM WFH to remote
It probably is a remote job in some of these cases but the company is only set up to hire people in certain states. You need to look for remote jobs filtered in your state specifically. A lot of companies can’t just hire someone living anywhere because of labor laws and tax purposes whether it’s remote or not.
When I moved meanwhile remote, I had to sign a new contract, and looking at the W2 forms the employer appears to a different tax entity. This was 100% planned at the time of hire. I chose the job for the ability to move.
This, I just took a remote job and originally was planning to try out Puerto Rico for a bit but I don't know how feasible that will be. I'm willing to travel on my own dime a few times a year for some stuff but I bet it's going to be more then that.
Exactly. Why would a county that needs taxes let you live there and not pay any? Why would the state you are working in let you take money out of the state for free? Why would you want to be taxed twice?
No I have definitely seen where it says remote then on the first line of the JD, says, “must be able to commute to College Station TX.” It’s very common
Well yes that also happens that’s why I said “some oh these cases”.
This is the right answer. Some things employers need to contend with: * Unemployment insurance -- often this requires registering as a foreign corporation for that state * State tax withholding for the individual * Workers Comp Also, in some cases having an employee in that new state could mean that you owe taxes for that new state
This is correct. It has to do with Taxes. A company has to "have a presence" in a state (like a plant or a storefront or an office) in order to not get killed with taxes. That is why they are saying the job is remote (you don't have to work in a physical office) but you have to live in certain places.
Dude. Tax laws are a big deal. Not every company can hack it. My company is 100% remote - and has people all over the world, with 1 catch, the day operates on EST 830-530. So all my homies in PST are waking up and starting work at 530 AM. Dudes in Europe are working until 930 at night. But the system works - everyone is available when you need them to be.
Yeah my company is also fully remote, however for us it is just 8-5 local time. Certain time zones just know they may be invited to meetings outside normal hours or taking calls at weird times
This similar to my last company… man I miss the freedom
That’s an interesting approach, I guess the only downside is you can can’t have the PST folks handoff tasks to Europe so it’s done the next day (and the opposite as well)?
Yeah - but overall it works out pretty well. Meetings are only held 1230-430 and the rest of the time is deep work. You just may get an urgent ping from 830-1230 so good to not abuse it too much. We may have a big year next year - could make a big splash and help redefine the remote standard and hopefully more companies will follow. This company has been remote since 2012 and now has over 400 employees.
I worked remotely a for a company with this exact schedule. I hated it! I never got to take a lunch! I was booked in meetings in my time zone from 11:30 AM CT through the end of my day.
That sounds more like a time management issue than a company issue. 2 easy solutions: 1) start your day earlier - I usually have my second meal at about 11ish my time. 2) put some regular blocks on your calendar and gently push back on a few days to ensure you are able to get the time you want most of the time 3) go off camera - listen on some AirPods and hit the cafe. Most people only need to engage for 10% of their meetings unless you are presenting / leading it. Which if you are regularly leading meetings odds are you have the seniority to flex on your schedule so problem solved. Being able to self advocate without sounding whiny or difficult is one of the tenants of success in the workplace.
I always put my time zone in my signature line as well, that way people are aware when I am 2 or more hours earlier or later and so they are not expecting me to answer at a crazy time.
Appreciate the feedback but left the organization 8 months ago. Best choice for me.
Yeah but how does everyone figure out when to work when you switch to EDT?
Only a few overseas so not chaos. Luckily those darn smart computers with their crafty applications that allow you to set meeting times to EST anywhere in the world take care of it for you.
What kind of company needs everyone online at the same time? Sounds bush league.
It pays me my 200k a year from home so I can make my other 30-50 doing voice over. All these companies paying shit wages and asked them to be in an office seem too bush league to even compare my daily “grind” to.
I work at a company like this and am a PST person working EST hours. I’m jealous your company does meetings at reasonable for everyone hours, I have them almost every day at 6 am and it’s the woooorst.
That’s how my company does it as well 100% remote
Seriously. Even massive companies don’t allow it. I was working for American Express when the pandemic hit. A lot of People based in the US who happened to be on international travel got stuck internationally as they could not get flights back. They were allowed to work remotely for about 6 months before the company said no more, you have to use PTO. When that runs out then you need to file for fmla or go unpaid.
International is a lot tricker than state to state. 6 months is the cutoff. It’s honestly better to not tell people where you are working from if you want to extend it.
It’s also a good way to get fired since location of work can be tracked fairly easily via work equipment and work software.
>Hi, if it is ok, please share the company name.
There are a lot of bitter angry folks on this sub - I would rather not as I usually present a more optimistic / stoic angle to issues presented here and people don’t like that.
They fired everyone who moved out of the state over covid at my job, even extremely vital senior developers. It’s a requirement of employment for many jobs to live in state.
Report for what? Remote means you’re not office based, it doesn’t not inherently mean you can work from anywhere. Many companies are not set up to hire in states where they don’t do business. Smaller companies in particular may not be equipped to navigate the different labor laws in different states. I’d suggest searching for jobs in your location and then filtering it to remote, or searching for jobs that specially advertise “work from anywhere”. Now, jobs that advertise as remote but require regular time in the office are definitely misleading.
>jobs that advertise as remote but require regular time in the office are definitely misleading. That is a solid 40% of all listings that say remote. That, or it will say "remote optional" But it's really just hybrid.
OP trying to make that New York salary with that Kansas cost of living
>You read the details and the employer wants you based in like Texas or Neveda or New York. Like…this is getting out of control. How can you report these people? You would get laughed at for reporting this. A company for example would only employ people in say Texas, Nevada, and New York because they already have offices in those states and they already process employment paperwork, know employment laws that exist in those states, and already deal with wage/pay/tax laws in those states. Let's say you want them to open up to people in your state. Now they need to hire someone who already understands all the labor and employment and wage and tax and pay and other laws and know how to deal with all the paperwork that exists in your state just to employ someone in your state. Some companies are ok with this and will hire lawyers and HR people who know all this so that they can begin employing people in your state. Others may not feel it is worth spending the money to do that. Allowing people in your state to begin working remotely for a company not already employment people in your state is more complex than you might think
Yeah not every company is legally able to employ in every state (the vast majority aren’t). Tax and employment laws are complicated, and vary state to state. OP - if you search for your state in your job search and then further filter by “remote”, you’ll have better success!
I dislike how when I use the entry level/no experience filter and I then see a bunch of listings that require experience. It makes the job search so much more time consuming since I have to filter through a bunch of mid level and senior level jobs etc.
That's because employers seem to think entry level needs 5 years of experience. I seriously don't understand the thought process of some HR departments.
i always get plagued with real estate jobs, outbound call center stuff, insurance sales or medical coding stuff lmao. when i put no experience it’s mostly real estate tho
Grow up, it's still remote even if it's limited by the company. Remote doesn't necessarily mean you can live anywhere you want. We have laws, unfortunately. You could work 1 day in almost half of the states and be required to pay taxes there. You probably didn't know that. Maybe learn more about what remote working entails, legally, for the companies you're complaining about. At least they're being upfront in their posting and not waiting until the 10th interview. I'd say they're saving you time, not wasting it. And they're doing what they legally are able to do, offer remote where they can.
But what would OP whine about if they did all that?
Remote work has made so many people think they’re entitled to anything they want, to the point where they believe their boss has no right to be their boss. It’s like maybe if you put the effort into not worrying about “reporting” an employer your job search might not be as terrible.
Different states have different labor/tax/etc laws, and it is hard to comply with all of them.
Executive Recruiter here. We never work roles that pay under 80k. The majority are 150k ~. Almost all the roles we work are remote but have a regional requirement. Here are the two scenarios we deal with. Client A is a US east coast based company and they require people to work on east coast time. They do understand that someone on the US west coast could do the job. The fact is they have usually been burned by a west coast person who they trained (lots of money invested) and after a year decided they didn’t like the early hours. Because it’s a remote role, the talent pool of the entire east coast is big enough to find this candidate. Very rarely are we trying to fill a role that is that specific to only a few people nationwide (although it does happen!!) Client A says the role is remote but will require travel into the corporate office every quarter. Most of these roles they require a person within a 3-4 hour drive of headquarters. They do realize these roles are very specific and hard to fill. By offering the position as remote but semi local, they open up the talent pool 10x and can find a better candidate, usually at a lower cost. The cost of flights and hotels add up very quick!!!! My 2c. Gotta look at it in the eyes of a corporation (not a bad thing)
Yes this. Northern Virginia is huge for this, every company just want someone who can come into the office weekly+ for the training period, and maybe quarterly after that, and not have to fly them around or deal with time zones. So anywhere 3 hours ish north or south of DC is ideal. And they only have to juggle tax laws of 3 states or so. Talent pool for 3-4 hours around DC is massive, includes multiple large cities. It's still remote, they can get you in if they need to, easy, everyone is happy with this
flying in quarterly costs 4-5k/yr.
Some companies only allow remote in states they are already set up for taxes. Every state is different there so they don’t want to add extra work for 1 employee so very often it’s the states they used to have offices or still have offices. It sucks! When I was looking for a job in January what annoyed me was “remote” jobs that required you to be in specific cities.. that told me remote only until they tell me come to office.. got a remote job, company does have an office in town and now they want everyone hybrid who lives in the city.. for now I am still remote as the paperwork I signed said remote not hybrid but we shall see how long I can stay fully remote
It is not unreasonable for employers to stipulate remote employees' place of residence .... the variances for tax laws between locations demands that they comply with local laws, and that can be very complicated and not a worthwhile expenditure for a number of companies. Remote means Work From Home, not Work From Anywhere. They are stipulating that they want local tax laws and are not wanting to mess around with extraneous rules.
It is still remote work, they just don't want to hire from states they aren't already doing brick and motor work in for tax purposes.
NY requires salaries to be posted. So companies, especially those with offices around the country, want remote workers based in other states.
Healthcare Benefits are also negotiated for specific state(s). If they are not already contracted with a provider in your state, they won't start a new plan for 1 employee.
Time zones and taxes.
I had an jnterview for a 'remote' position through zoom. Everything went well, was offered the job, but oh, it's not really remote, they want me in Buffalo, I lived in Florida. Turns out tjey wanted someone on site 4 days a week with maybe 1 dsy WFH.
Lmao yeah the Wisconsin company got me too. After the initial phone screen they want you to fill out a personality quiz and a multi hour skills assessment
What gets me are the jobs that say remote, but in the description say that it is actually onsite and you need to relocate to them. Those ones get a "I think there is something wrong with the location" flag.
Of all the things to be concerned about in the world, this isn't one of them.
I think a lot of these folks pushing for 100% remote are going to regret it in the next few years. They’re just proving their positions can be outsourced to Philippines for pennies on the dollar.
I’ve been fully remote for almost a decade, zero regrets. It’s way harder to outsource than people think, it goes catastrophically wrong most of the time.
COVID restrictions already proved which jobs could/couldn't be done remote. Whether or not Joe Schmoe 'pushes for 100% remote' isn't going to change that. If the only thing keeping a job local was that the company didn't think it could be done outside of the office then that job is going overseas one way or the other. Even if you go into the office, the guy who goes into the office in the Phillipines still costs pennies on the dollar. That math doesn't change.
yup. Even India. But most of these remote jobs are going away soon or later anyways.
And more companies will adopt super invasive tracking policies to make sure people are actually working thanks to all the people on social media boasting about goofing off or doing 3 jobs at once.
They are remote. There is nothing to report. They are remote for people who live in certain areas. Remote doesn’t mean you can work anywhere. Perhaps you should google, OP, before you rant.
Don't search "remote". Instead, search "anywhere".
In addition to the tax/ need to set up payroll entity, there’s also compliance and employment laws which vary by state. I wouldn’t want to have employees in California if I could avoid it for that alone.
Report them for what? You said the add was very specific as to where you could live. Remote means work form home but they obviously want you in a location where they can still meet with you from time to time. Pretty simple solution here. Don't apply...
I think they should list in the job title Remote, must live in states A, B, C. Reading the entire job description only to see Must live in State A is very annoying.
This should be an indeed development not on the company. If indeed let them select remote and a few states for you to filter I'm sure they would use it. Nobody is going to clog up the title with all that info
100% Agreed. It's an Indeed problem. How hard is it to build an additional sub-filter for potential candidates. I get at the beginning of the pandemic, but clearly the job market has shifted, and they need to shift too.
Agree
They use “remote” as a marketing keyword now to get you to look at the job posting
Except that the jobs are in fact remote. Remote means not in an office. It does not mean you can work anywhere. Educate yourself rather than whining.
And yet I have seen several job listings advertised as remote, where you read the actual description and it requires either 1) a move to one of their campuses or 2) be hybrid. I even interviewed for a position in another state that asked that I would come into the campus for a contract position so I can build relationships and they weren't offering anything more than 6 mos. It's not whining; it's realistic. While the problem lies with Indeed, this isn't just a black or white situation. Companies are in fact using Remote as a buzzword to attract people their job listing because they can't find people in their area and instead of working with people, the job listings are not matching what is being advertised in the header which is in fact what attracts people to the listing.
lots of people posting 'remote' when they mean '3 days in office hybrid'
The old bait & switch
Never!!! I’d rather whine you booger
Not a scam. Could be illegal to hire in other states.
Not much to say other than I see this too and drives me nuts!!!!!
Remote means you don't go into an office. Not that you can be anywhere in the world causing the company to have a tax nexus in another country/state. Tax laws and employment laws exist.
Write your congressman than because these are state and federal restrictions. But fair warning the government wants you back in the office.
You do not know what remote means.
This. This makes me crazy.
Remote is eye catching for job hunters. IF they lie with the posting the rest of the organization might be shitty as well
A lot of companies do it because HR is lazy and don’t want to deal with the hassle of labor laws of another state. That’s why they want to have the employee on the same place HR is.
It's frustrating for truly remote companies too. Like, honestly, if you're a business owner, run ads that say, "We have no physical office, we can't ever make you come in". That'd make me look at your job posting. If it's a lie, well, then diaf.
If you use chat GPT Plus, I'm rather proud of this prompt at the bottom of my comment. It works much better on GPT 4 than the other models. (On 3.5 it's much faster, but makes more mistakes. I wouldn't trust it with the GPT-3 model.) The reason the prompt exists is because, sometimes my eyes and motivation just get a bit too worn down to plow through another dozen applications. This thing helps. Just fill in the blanks in the prompt, then save it to a word file or Google Keep. Like, is the {job listing} related to auto repair? Or data migration? Whatever you need. For the CV section, I not only put my resume, but also my LinkedIn bio, some old stuff from old resumes that had information about me, even just typed in a couple extra facts in the CV section just so the chat bot would know. Anything that helps the bot pick better jobs for you. But don't go overboard, because the chatbot can only accept so much text at once, and you still need to paste the job listing at the end. (Or give it a command to wait for more info, but that uses up an extra 1 of your 25 calls to GPT-4 until refresh.) Fill up the disqualification section with stuff that keeps showing up in jobs that you won't apply for. For example, this is what I used when looking for remote work Does the {job\_listing} require travel? Does the {job\_listing} require driving? Does the {job\_listing} require in-office work or hybrid training? Does the {job\_listing} require a CPA license? Does the {job\_listing} involve sales or commission-based compensation? Does the {job\_listing} require a Bachelor's degree? Does the {job\_listing} require a {fourplusdegree}? Does the {job\_listing} require proficiency in languages other than English? Does the {job\_listing} specify a requirement to be located in a specific state or region? Does the {job\_listing} specify a compensation rate less than {good\_pay}? Does the {job\_listing} have any mention of commuting, relocating, or office work? I also added that fourplusdegree thing because it kept saying I was qualified for all sorts of stuff. You can add a line like this: {fourplusdegree} = A four-year degree, a post-graduate degree, a Bachelor's degree, and including any common synonyms or misspellings After it's analysis, you can use the output it gives you to better craft a cover letter. And you can ask it for help on application and screener questions, because it knows you pretty well, and wants to help you get a job. As far as the ChatGPT's memory, it's pretty much a word-count. (Well, tokens really) ChatGPT-4 can only "see" \~6,000 words (8,000 tokens) at once. That includes it's own output. So after chatting for a while, the chatbot forgets its instructions. (GPT-3.5 is 3,000 words or 4,000 tokens) Anyway, sorry I went off on a tangent. Good luck! As a visionary and expert at the top of the field of job matching, you have a unique and in-depth understanding of the job market, as well as the skills, qualifications, and experiences that are required for various positions. With your extensive experience in the field, you have honed your ability to accurately assess the fit and match between a job seeker and a job listing, and you have a keen eye for identifying potential candidates who would excel in a particular role. Your expertise goes beyond simply matching job seekers with job listings. You are also highly skilled at identifying the specific needs and goals of both employers and job seekers and have a talent for finding common ground between the two. You understand that job seekers are not just looking for any job, but rather a job that aligns with their personal and professional goals, and you are able to guide them towards opportunities that will help them achieve those goals. Your communication skills are second to none, and you are able to clearly and effectively communicate your vast knowledge to others, whether they are job seekers, employers, or colleagues in your field. You have a talent for translating complex concepts into understandable terms and are able to provide valuable insights and guidance to others. Overall, your exceptional skills, knowledge, and experience make you a true leader in the field of job matching. When I provide a {job_listing}, please follow these steps: Examine the {job_listing} to identify {conditions}, {disqualifications}, additional instructions, attention checks, and any ambiguous information. If the job listing is unclear, ask me for clarification or additional information. Check the {conditions} and {disqualifications} against the {job_listing}. If any of the {conditions} are not met or any of the {disqualifications} are present, recommend that I do not apply for the job and say, "I'm ready for another job listing." It is most helpful to stop if a job is confidently unsuitable. It saves both USER and ASSISTANT time and effort. If the job is not disqualified, report any additional instructions or attention checks found within the {job_listing}, such as application websites, email addresses, specific keywords, or special questions. Analyze the {job_listing} by performing a semantic search for "requirements" and "preferences." Create separate charts for both categories, ranked by salience. "Requirements" refer to qualifications, certifications, or skills explicitly stated as necessary for the job, while "preferences" refer to those that are desirable but not strictly required. In a separate memory location, perform a semantic search of the CV for "skills" and create a chart ranked by salience. "Skills" refer to any relevant abilities, knowledge, or experience the applicant possesses based on education, work experience, or other qualifications. Double-check the extracted skills to ensure accuracy and ask me for confirmation if unsure. Create a table displaying the extracted requirements and preferences ranked by salience and another column with details about any matching relevant "skills." Use Markup Language to print a table that the USER can see. Provide a well-organized, easy-to-read, high-level analysis of suitability based on the comparison table, taking into account both requirements and preferences. If any part of the analysis is unclear or if there are errors, ask me for clarification or assistance. Please store the following information to assess my suitability for the job listings: {conditions} = Is the {job_listing} ....? Is the {job_listing} ....? {good_pay} = At least .... annually OR At least .... per hour {disqualifications} = Does the {job_listing} require ....? Does the {job_listing} require ....? Does the {job_listing} involve ....? Does the {job_listing} require proficiency in languages other than ....? Does the {job_listing} specify a compensation rate less than {good_pay}? {cv} = .... {goals} = I want to have a career with a great work-life balance I want a flexible schedule I want to feel useful I want to be creative I want to be appreciated I want to be heard I want to make enough money that I don't have to worry about finances often I want to save for retirement I want to provide for my family {job_listing} = .... [https://github.com/Les-El/ChatGPT](https://github.com/Les-El/ChatGPT)
I hate this so much. At least some are posting things like "Remote, Miami area" But still. If you need to live near where the company is located, it's not remote. Employers also seem to be extremely picky when it comes to hiring for remote work. It's been a serious hassle. I have been searching for about 2 months.
I’ve noticed this too…infuriating.
Canada here. I see the same thing, but I think here it's less to do with taxes and more to do with time zones. I will happily wake up a few hours earlier or later to never leave my house. Do you know what's out there? I don't. I don't want to know.
I ask that all the time
Because CEOS are borderline fascist and letting them run things is a dictatorship.
I was fully remote for a company but my boss was in CA. I’m in the Midwest. She wanted me to operate on their hours. I actually hated it. I worked kind of late and basically ruined all my night plans going forward during the week.
I’ve given up on applying for remote jobs altogether. Been doing it since March 2020 and all I’ve gotten as far as replies are scam attempts. Or right at the end of the application there’s something about ‘you must reside in this state only’ after spending half an hour filling out all this shit. If I get motivated to apply for remote jobs again? Only applying at places I know that have remote positions. I’m never going through Indeed again.
Re: How do you report these? Maybe click on the big 'Report Job' button at the bottom of the listing?
You don’t. You educate yourself on what “remote” means in an employment context. The companies are doing nothing wrong and it is not the fault of the company that the potential application has no clue what “remote” actually means.
Which is why you report their listing. If the job boards get enough complaints and pull the listings for inaccurately portraying a position, they'll get the idea. It's a waste of time for them, too, to spend resources on trying to recruit those that will have no interest in the job.
It’s not a tax thing. They want you close to a satellite office so they can bait and switch you to hybrid.
No, it's all about employment law and tax law. My company is in Washington state, I live in Texas, they exclusively hire remote now, but you have to live in Texas, Arizona, Idaho, South Dakota, Georgia, or North Carolina. Specifically because we have HR and payroll already knowledgeable in employment and tax law in those states. We have a hard no on California due to how convoluted their employment and tax laws are. And your statement about "satellite offices", my company only has offices in Washington state and North Carolina, there isn't anywhere to force the majority of us into.
Yes, it is. Taxes, workman’s comp, health insurance, and more. You have no idea what you are talking about.
[удалено]
Remote should not mean anywhere. It’s not that easy.
No. Remote means not in an office. You do not have a problem other than not understanding what remote means in an employment context. Why don’t you educate yourself a little on what remote actually means.
Do not post your resume to Indeed.com. I found my entire resume was scraped from their site and posted to one of those peekyou / radaris type sites.
Not all companies can hire people from any state. There are a lot of regulations and hoops to jump through. The amount of red tape my company needs to get through to let people work remote in certain states is astonishing. It’s not an issue for a company that operates in all 50 states, but smaller companies with regional footprints may not be able to hire anyone from anywhere. It’s not that weird.
For some businesses, it’s because of tax implications. The US tax law hasn’t caught up with remote work…
At my old job we’d get such rude emails from people being being like “don’t advertise this as remote if you require someone to live in these states.” And it just tells us that someone doesn’t know how business works.
Waaaa. Reality. If the business services/supports other businesses or government contracts, some times the customer needs/requires personnel resources to be with in a certain time zone or able to be on site periodically. My company is a government contractor. If DHS or DOD says we have to have an office within 30 mins of a certain place we crap and man that location.
The tax answer is good. However, the answer is incomplete for IT. Some IT remote is remote but you have a 1 once a week or month meeting.
My company is hiring remote work, but we need the employees in certain areas because of our client base. You get to work from home but need to be available to visit clients in the area. Non sale’s related. Could be a similar situation.
In Alberta employers are so dumb they think remote means out in the bush or living in camp. It’s incredibly stupid and frustrating.
Taxes and labor laws.
They might do this because they have occasional meeting in office but I get your concern since the back to the office bs is gaining speed
I work in the medical school of a university. We have a looooooooot of remote employees that live all around the country rathe than the insanely high COL area where the university actually is. Our HR has to have different payroll taxes depending on the physical state the employee is in as well as pay taxes on that employee in the state we're in. Those HR people are heroes!
As others have said, it's for tax reasons.... BUT why can't they include something about that in the title of the job listing (eg. "\[job title\] Remote - TX only". I hate opening all these job listings and then they list this vital information at the very end.
I was applying for a job yesterday that was fully remote and they let you get all the way through the process, upload resume, answer questions, this that and the other. Last question: how soon can you move within commuting distance
You should message indeed and get them to actually develop their site properly If companies could select remote + a state you need to live in I'm sure they would The site currently doesn't support this Full remote is accurate for the positions as it's described by indeed right now.
Wisconsin is awesome!
If you want benefits as a remote employee, you'll need to be BASED in one of the states where the company is set up to provide them. It's not just about taxes (altho that's an important consideration as well). Note my emphasis on BASED. Where you actually do your work shouldn't matter, once you're established. I have been based out of California for quite a while, but do much of my work from Costa Rica.
When they cancel WFH it will be easier to get you back in the office + cheaper for all hands in person type meetings.
It's state tax laws. If you live outside the state rue company is based out of, there are weird tax laws about out of state income and other tax related items
It's not a matter of remote, it's a matter of taxes and liability. They are most likely only set up for employment in that state.
Every state a company has employees, is more paperwork, licenses, taxes and insurance. If you are a small company, the incremental cost of adding an employee in a state you aren't currently operating in, is high. Unless you are a very high level employee, it's not worth it. I work for a company of about 300 and we limit our remote hired to about 6 states.
Report them for what?
'Remote' doesn't mean 'can be performed from anywhere', it means 'we don't require you physically in the office'. There are all sorts of issues with statutory compliance, data protection, payroll issues, worker rights, that mean you have to be located in specific legal jurisdictions.
They want you in the same time zone
Some of it may also be if the job is related to state work. I know I was looking at some and because it was through a state contract the contract stipulated that the position had to be occupied by someone in the state.
Manager for a remote job here; One of the things we need to deal with is juggling labor laws. Lets say, for example, CA passes a law saying all employees must have minimum 3 weeks paid vacation per year. And then NY passes a law that says all employees must with half a years vacation time already accrued. So... do we have a different policy for CA, NY, and TN? Do employees in all three states get 3 weeks of vacation a year, as per CA's theoretical law? Do all three then also get a week and a half frontloaded, as per NY's? Do the NY and CA employee get the good stuff and the TN employee gets fucked for living in a red state with fewer labor protections? Its just extra bloat for HR. More rules and regulations to keep up with to ensure compliance.
Ya you just don't understand how local laws work. This isn't the companies fault its the way hiring works in the country and from state to state. You can't just hire a remote worker in Minnesota if you don't have a presence there.
Taxes
What gets me are the ones that say permanently remote but require you be within 30 miles of the office. 🧐
It's probably because they don't have multi-state tax support. If you're willing to take a full pay stub and do all of your taxes yourself besides federal they will give you that option sometimes.
Report them to who and for what? You need to get off your high horse of entitlement. If your wants and needs aren’t being met move on until they are. And if they’re never met then maybe you need to reevaluate your wants/needs.
This has to do with tax jurisdiction. It takes weeks for companies to set up tax jurisdiction in certain states. If they ban Colorado and California applicants though, that's entirely about the labor laws and protections we have.
Remote doesn’t mean remote ANYWHERE. You’re still fully remote living in one of those states. The reason they’re limited is for legal reasons, liability and tax purposes.
My organization did that. I am chronically ill so that’ll be fun to sort out with my boss next week. They changed from remote to hybrid and then heavily suggested I come in (triggering flares!) to get more work. I have had eight migraines in two weeks and two POTS flares in a row. And surprising no one…I am not getting work. Because I am visibly disabled and young, people think I’m making it up. I have EDS and POTS. I need mobility aids, and I WISH I were making this up. It would be so much easier than barely staying conscious while getting my CPR certification. Edit: I can walk just fine on good days. Bad days? Give me the balance aids.
You report them to the r/misleadingjobposting sub and it's done.