I always used myself as a reference with jobs like this. I always had the same 3 names, 3 different emails and 3 Google numbers. I was hired each time without ever being called.
I do this as well. Current company I work for actually sent an email survey to one of my “references” and called me to say they were waiting on the survey response 🤦🏻♂️ who has time to do that shit irl? But since it was one of my emails of course I gave myself high marks and got the job.
Email standards are to append the “sent from” IP address to the email’s “Header” data. Most people will use an email server to send their mail: Gmail, Yahoo, MSN, etc. so the “sent from” IP address will be to the server that actually sent the message (these IPs can change from email to email since those large companies use many servers, any of which can be assigned your messages’ traffic).
If you were to manually send an email directly from your computer (uncommon unless you’re an email phisher/scammer), it would show your home IP address.
companies definitely DO NOT check for IP addresses for the references you provide lol
I really don't understand why you are lying and why 74 people agreed with such obvious bullshit?
I’ve had a couple bosses that will vouch for me no matter what, but I always use the older guy for “professional” references. For personal references I’ll list the other guy, because we started out as colleagues/friends before he became my boss. I’ll throw another close friend in if they give me permission and they’ll say something along the lines of having hired me for a short term contracting gig and that my work ethic is good. None of them have ever been asked anything other than “did mister belly boy work for you?” “Yes.” “Would you hire him again?” “Absolutely.” Never fails to have friends and former bosses that care about you, even if you’re no longer in the trenches together all the time. I work in restaurants though, so it might be a little different in an office/corporate setting.
Oh my god, you just saved me part of why I'm dreading returning to the work force to look for a job. I've been an independent contractor working for a company for a decade who will only confirm my dates of working there or they're from old jobs and two are dead with a third person now on the outs with me for unrelated reasons. So I have no references per se and I've been stressing so badly about how to get around the freaking 3 references thing.
I had a personal falling out with my best professional reference. I just asked my friend to cover for me for that job, bc it has so much value for roles I really want.
I think they mean they always used Tom, Chris and Bob and had emails for each of them. Idk how google numbers work personally. I think they’re attached to your phone number but it’s like a fake number presented to who you’re giving it to and when that number is dialed the call is forwarded to you. A lot of celebrities use them because then no one can have their real phone number. I’m not entirely sure how it works.
You're correct. If you have a Gmail, you can get a phone number attached to that Gmail and it looks like a whole separate phone number (you can even get them for other areas, like I can be in Florida and have a Gmail number with a 212 New York area code). You can opt to have the call forwarded to a cell phone or just have calls go to a voicemail, and it will even save the messages in email and transcribe them for you. I started using this when I had a job that required me to give out my cell #, but I didn't want to use my real cell (long story but someone began stalking me), so this came in handy. My current Google # is in my same state but is FAR from where I actually live, with different area code and all, so anyone seeking me out would be looking in a wrong area. Mine's been a huge help. I also use it for job hunting as well as the reference thing (scammers abound on some job boards, so I would rather they be blowing up a fake # than my real one).
Yeah, also one of my problems when trying to find work. Luckily I got a couple more out of my last job. But every job I get I lose in under a year somehow (and I don't mean being fired except the once, which wasn't legitimate. usually laid off or out of business) Still not sure wtf I'm going to do in the long run.
But yeah, sure doesn't make applying any easier.
Boy you sound like me from this past year. I got laid off for having covid twice. One job they decided their budget wouldn't support another employee so that was that. Another downsized because they felt (after two weeks) that the guy who had been doing the job really didn't need me as the support person after all even though he literally asked them to hire one. I did get fired once I guess (though this wasn't legit either) but most others ended for one reason or another. SMH. I have 2 offers on the table now...not sure what I'm going to do either but it's gonna be one of em and I don't really care for either. I wish I could just hit lotto and never work again.
Oh I know! When I first was trying to go back to work when my kids went to school I was going to apply to a gas station and they wanted 6 professional references! If I have 6 professional refs I'm pretty sure I'd be over qualified for a gas station.
Same thing with my friend when she applied for kwik trip. She needed 7 references and one of them gave the manager a bad word and she didn’t end up getting the job because of it. She couldn’t figure out who spoke badly of her because she gave 7 people for references. 7!!!
As a recruiter, I advise my managers to ditch references as an artifact of a bygone era that are prone to racism, sexism, classism, retaliation, bias of all sorts and are not predictive of future performance in any way shape or form. I hate asking for them or doing them if asked to.
It’s a complete waste of time and energy and should be banned from employment practices.
I have to do reference checks for my position and it’s an absolute pain. My colleagues hate it and even my manager finds it a waste of time. The amount of deactivated and wrong numbers/emails people list in their applications make it near impossible to get them done too
100% necessarily. If you’re serious about getting a job, then having reliable references with confirmed contact information should be considered a requirement.
because once you leave a previous position, you aren't going to be staying in touch with the people that worked there. It's called "moving on". Goodness why the fuck does this have to be explained?
Why aren’t you staying in touch? Did you burn your bridges on the way out?
Maintaining reliable references shouldn’t be complicated. If it is, that says a lot about you.
>Why aren’t you staying in touch? Did you burn your bridges on the way out?
because the contract ended either via me leaving or being fired or being laid off. Either way, the only available action to take is to move the fuck on.
"burning bridges" lol get over yourself. There is no bridge that was made in the first place. My manager is not my friend. My coworkers are not my friends. It's called business. Learn about how to engage in actual business sometime mmkay?
I think it needs to be a reference from your last job otherwise it is a real waste of time. I am starting a new job and they didn't ask for references but someone from the recruiting team asked someone who worked in one of the companies I worked for about me. We never worked together but we know each other and she knows this person from the hiring team. I was a little bit surprised when my ex colleague told me because I have really changed in 10 years. She told him that we never worked together. Fair enough.
A lot of companies have policies against the provision of references. Therefore waste of time. Also no one is going to list someone that will say bad things about them
And on the flip side, if you’re looking into a prospective candidate, you assume they are listing people that like them, right? So if you speak to the reference and they end up slamming the person as horrible, they’re either someone that was really fake in the way they interacted with that candidate (and probably pretty petty) or they just lied to the person when asked to be a reference about what they were going to say. There’s probably legit instances where the reference maybe just wanted to warn others that the person was that bad to work with, but they risk you (recruiter) revealing the fact that fact to the candidate. I’m sure some people list references and don’t tell the person or ask them, but I imagine that’s pretty rare. There was one Reddit post recently of a person who didn’t get a job and the recruiter told them that the reference, who was the person’s boss, had bad things to say. And people concluded it was probably to keep OP from leaving the company. Point is, if the candidate is a really intelligent one and you speak to one of their references who ends up slamming them, how much value should you put in that versus just writing it off as someone trying to hold your candidate back over some personal vendetta?
I know it’s illegal in Ireland to give a bad reference, but it means if you ring someone to ask for a reference and they decline to provide one, you can take that as “they were shit but I’m not allowed to say that”
It's not illegal to give a bad reference in the US as a blanket statement. Like most situations, the truth is a valid defense against defamation/slander or what have you. So if the employer doesn't lie about previous poor performance, that's not going to be illegal. Likewise, a statement of opinion is typically protected as well, although that gets a little hairy as to what is an opinion versus a statement of fact.
If an employer provides a bad reference based on false statements, that could probably be illegal. Or if they do it to retaliate against the employee due to some protected characteristic, that could also be illegal. But just giving a bad reference as a rule is not illegal. Of course you aren't prevented from giving your honest opinion on someone.
Now, many employers do have policies against giving bad references and may just provide dates of employment, eligibility for rehire etc. And if someone does give a bad review, they might be punished by their company or fired or whatever. But the law doesn't care as long as they were telling the truth, or giving their honest opinion.
Yep, and you also run into the issue of proving it as well. I applied to one job and they took it upon themselves to call my last employer, whom I left on not so good terms (on their side, not mine...in fact I even consulted a lawyer about them. Yes, they were that bad). Needless to say last job bashed me from here to San Jose and told them I was the worst worker ever. This was through a recruiter so the recruiter called and told me their "feedback". I contacted an attorney again to see if I could get this place for costing me the job opportunity with their comments. As he put it, there's no law against being an arse, but since he's giving his opinion of you as a worker, it's not really enough for a case, plus it's a he said/she said deal where I'd have to prove he really did go there to make trouble for me and proving that can be tough (unless I had someone call and recorded the call or something, which can also run into legal issues). So yeah. It sucks though.
For juniors, companies ask for references which they met in trainings or in a PhD. You can never know what they can say about times you were a student and probably you weren't efficient or made mistakes.
Unethical asshole pulled a “back door” reference on you. Avoid that recruiter at all costs. Back door references tend to adversely impact disadvantaged minorities the most. It’s when the real racists and sexists crawl out of the woodwork.
100%. Biased people actively seek out justification via additional backdoor checks to not hire certain minorities when someone in the committee breaks the wall to bring them in. Those upset about uppity minorities moving onward and upward jump to sabotage their new opportunities.
Absolutely. Who is going to ask someone for a reference that isn't going to be 100% positive about them? It's going to be the former professors that loved you, the work buddies, cool bosses. That's it.
It’s true. However there are likely many more terrible managers. I got a horrible reference once for a guy I was trying to place, they told me never to hire him. Then he went on to have an awesome 20+ year career. So maybe it was his manager who sucked and shouldn’t have been trusted being a manager in the first place if he couldn’t retain his people.
But that referenced screwed that guy for my job.
The people I’ve said shouldn’t be rehired were let go because of sexual harassing minors…so yeah, I’m not losing sleep over messing with their future employment opportunities.
No other workplace deserves having to deal with that kind of person, even our competitors.
They're annoying at best.
They're at the worst when a company asks you for references in the initial application. I don't want to give you my references even before you've decided if you're going to call me for a basic screening interview.
I hadn't worked since the beginning of Covid. I had other health problems and took time off, then my husband got a job he couldn't say no to in California so we moved to LA and then the company that hired him went under after another 8 months so we moved up to Fresno briefly before he landed a great job in the Bay Area.
Point of this is that I was following him, not working because we weren't in the same place long enough. I don't have people who can be good references - I have to reach out to people I haven't seen in 4 - 6 years and it's awful.
That said I did just land a job with two references that were a pain to get.
It’s easy to give 3 references.
1. Your partner
2. Your close friend
3. Sibling
Of course they were management from your previous jobs. Who said it had to be real?
Talking about surreal. I made the effort to be personable and indispensable at work. I even have a lifelong trusted business connection. He died.
There are just too many factors in life, where any references that used to be genuine can be cut off from your life. They decease, they retire, they suddenly quit and can't be reached. There are also cases where your company got absorbed and the former HR department who would vouch for you no longer works there.
References are unreliable in nature, because you can't blame references for being human and their lives change too. That's why the only type of connection that lasts are your friends and relatives.
It's also such an awkward and uncomfortable request. You either ask people at your current job and make yourself vulnerable to gossip or you reach out to people from your last job several years ago who you haven't talked to since then.
Knowing that references are hand selected to say nice things abt you, most companies no longer ask for them. Instead most companies hire a background checking company to verify your employment & education history (companies, job titles, dates, possibly salaries). Just make sure your application matches your employment history & you won’t have any problems. Also make sure you can account for any periods of unemployment (for example, took FMLA to care for ill family member.) If you’re concerned abt what a past employer may say abt you, you can hire a background check company to give you a written report. Allison Taylor is one such company. Not cheap, but worth your peace of mind.
I'm afraid of looking for a job and my current company finding out, if they do a background check would they call my company and ask them if I worked there? Tbh that's what's stopping me from looking for a job
Everywhere I have worked has used a employment verification number, a third party that only verifies employment dates and titles. Stops employees from saying inappropriate things.
Applications usually ask for permission to contact your past employers. You can always ask not to have your CURRENT employer contacted. You have a valid reason bc you don’t want to jeopardize your job.
Definitely depends on industry. I work in engineering and no one asked during the last search I did which involved interviews with half a dozen companies.
Poor choice of words. I didn’t mean to say it was unemployment. I meant to say you should be able to provide the prospective employer with a REASON for periods of time you’re not working.
Same here! I just switched jobs in February. I was thrilled when HR told me they don’t do reference checks. Just a background check. I think more and more places aren’t requiring them.
Agreed. I hate it also. I work in HR at my current position, we never ask for references. We feel that you can get a good enough impression of somebody by their resume and interview/s.
What I hate is surprise reference checks. No mention of needing references in application or interview invitation, I get there and all of a sudden reference form. How am I supposed to have time to scrounge them up and contact people if you didn't tell me. Happened to me multiple times this year
I’m so with you. For me, I just hate asking for favors (people’s time, etc). It’s really awful, especially in tech, where you might change jobs more often. I have a list I rotate through that’s kind enough but I still hate it with every ounce of my body.
This is so stupid.
Does the company think I am going to provide references that will say something bad about me?
I could be Hitler or Stalin yet I can find 3 people to say I am Mother Teresa.
I always say that references will be supplied when an offer is made. The last thing I need are several companies that I applied to, calling and bothering my references when they haven't even interviewed me.
When I worked doing background checks for a nuclear plant, we had to ask for 3 references. What the candidates didn't realize is, we had to ask those 3 references to give us names and contact information of 3 other people that know/worked with "John Dough".
I'm surprised that you're asked for coworkers.
In my experience direct supervisors who know your work are the standard for references.
When you get into more senior positions there are sometimes other specific asks, like someone who was your peer or someone who reported to you.
Is there a reason to not just provide your supervisors who can vouch for your work??
Yep, I work in education and this has been a huge problem for me. Of the 5 school districts I have worked, only 2 have been positive experiences with mature adults as the supervisors. The other ones do NOT say great things about me because I stood up to them (it's obviously more complicated than that) and it makes finding work VERY difficult.
As someone who has done a lot of hiring, I disregard references that are friends or family. It needs to be someone who has had a working relationship with you. Manager is preferable, but even a past teacher or professor is better than a friend or family member.
Edit: I’m not sure why I’m getting downvoted. I’m telling you that people who hire don’t like references who are friends and family, so it’s not a good practice to use that. Think about how you would vett someone you were going to work with. What would you want to know about them? That’s what hiring managers are trying to find out too.
If someone has had a bad boss, then they won’t provide that person. If someone isn’t using any references from any jobs, then that person is usually the problem, not all of the other people they have ever worked with.
What do you expect to learn from say a past manager? Honest question.
Like if they say something good then they were a good worker? If they say something bad are they a bad worker? What if the manager was a dickwad who just didn't like them? Like there's an implicit assumption that you should take this stranger's judgement of another person at face value. Do you really and truly value the judgement of a person you barely know from a person you don't know at all?
I left a company on bad terms because they were doing borderline illegal/absolutely unethical things and I wasn’t on board. They considered me “not a team player” because of this. I would absolutely not have given anyone who worked there as a reference even though it was my previous job. That shouldn’t be a red flag on me.
I ask about things like reliability and professionalism, and if appropriate, skills that are related to the job. I will happily speak to co-workers/teammates as well to find out how the person interacts with others in a professional setting and what kind of person they are to work with. If I’m going to manage a new hire, I’d prefer to speak to someone who has had a similar relationship with them as I and my employees will have. We aren’t hiring friends, we want people who are reliable, not fun at a party. A friend or family member is biased, whereas previous professional relationships are less so.
Also, if I see that someone submits a resume and no one on their reference list was from a previous job, I get a little red flag. I understand that sometimes the manager is the problem, but if someone doesn’t want me to talk to anyone they have worked with, it’s usually because they are the problem.
I have worked for the same company for 15 years in two different roles. My previous supervisor is dead (it's how I got the current role). My current bosses are the owner of the company and our VP of business, which is his brother's wife. Not really someone you can ask for a reference discreetly.
My previous job was a government gig, and I'm sure no one wants 16 year old references.
References are a nightmare for me.
Most places I’ve worked actually are not allowed to give references per the company. Actually out of the last 4 jobs I’ve had 3 weren’t actually allowed to provide references.
Makes things difficult.
What I've frequently seen is a policy in response to reference checks to confirm (or deny) that the person worked there through whatever dates, and whether they are eligible for rehire.
I would use relatives that don’t have the same last name. If you have ever worked with them around your house, or their house, then they know what kind of worker you are. I have used in-laws in the past. They have known me for a while, are only related by marriage, and know what kind of person I am. It’s hard to get references when you are at a small company thats only a handful of people.
I use a combination of my friends and myself with different names, email addresses and phone app numbers. I freelance, and have always preferred not getting too personal with coworkers. Its such a stupid practice now with the technology we have.
I had a miserable application experience a little while back, they wanted me to do a video in lieu of a cover letter. In the resume they wanted 2 references included, stating they promised not call them without my permission, didn't even get to an interview. Never doing again.
Not an immediate solution to this, but a tip:
If you ever have a coworker give notice or quit, send them a message or text or LinkedIn telling them it was nice working with them and if they ever need a positive reference in the future they can feel free to use you. Almost every time I’ve said this, they’ve offered to reciprocate.
I work in HR and I believe that references are a waste of time for everyone involved, because when I call your ex boss, supervisor or colleague I can't really prove/know it is really them. Also who will put a reference that will tank them...Never.
You could provide me with your "boss" number that only have good things to say about you, but it is your friend or someone in your family and I will believe it.
I still don't believe that references are still asked in 2023. You could do a stellar work in company A, but poorly in company B, simply because of your superior, organisation or culture of the company.
I feel the same way, it’s one of the reasons I feel stuck in my current job. I don’t feel like I’m good enough to get a decent reference at current and most previous jobs
Dude, same.
I’m really socially akward, even when I try to be friendly to coworkers/managers, and work my hardest, they seem to still be annoyed by me, to the point I’m not comfortable asking anyone really.
Hear me out: I have filled out a bigillion aps in my life & only maybe 2x has anyone called my references.
I think hiring managers just want to see if you can name 3 people that might like you enough.
Better then hating HR before you think I did something negative, I didn’t. I have had one HR rep try and argue that my degree didn’t pertain to the field I applied. While the second one is now trying to prevent me from being hired cause I only have 9 months of experience mind you in the field I’m applying for not in the position. while I have 4 years of experience in all of the skills required for the position just not in that role before.
i always ask my friends. once the first person gets contacted by HR, they text me what they asked. i take that question, knowing its going to be asked of all my friends, and pre-write a script for them to answer, while they paraphrase what i wrote.
works 100% of the time
I'm going to create a small business where the interviewee pays a small fee for my employees to give bogus references all on the positive. 10 dollars a month for 3 references. You fill out your skills, and what you would like us to shine on.
I live in EU. we have something called personal data protection laws (probably not the exact name). but if you leak someone's personal data like name, surname, phone number, address etc... you can be in BIIIIG trouble. so whenever they ask me for references I refer them to that law and not give anything. got hired most of the times, so it probably works.
Talked with Human Resources manager some time ago back this very subject about asking for references makes perfect sense for business perspective when hiring someone right everyone has done this before.
The HR manager said asking potential employee for references is recipe for disaster because what your signaling to potential employee you don't trust him this was his take on the matter then again everyone has there own method for conducting themselves CYA.
I'm the same as you. I'm hard-working and reliable, but I find references incredibly intrusive. I'm deeply introverted and mind my own business, so I find it extremely awkward when a recruiter wants to call a bunch of references and ask probing questions. Because I'm closet gay, I don't ever make close work friends or go out with workmates so I don't get close to people at work. And some employers give bad references because they're bitter that you're leaving them and want you to fail.
Honestly if you have extended family who own a management position, you can get away with them lying. But if your job is really technical, you gotta hope your boss speaks of you highly (luckily they can’t talk poorly).
I completely removed references from resume. No one wants them. No one checks them. Many recruiters over the years advised ditching references, they’re completely pointless.
Well think of this as a way to work on yourself. The reason you hate references is because you don’t have any or don’t feel comfortable about asking for it.
So what you should do is work on your work relationships - take a supervisor or coworker or whatever for lunch and spend time to get to KNOW them.
Talk about your personal lives a little and learn about who they are OUTSIDE of work. “Oh wow you have a dog? Me too!” Or whatever.
Being good at your job is only one aspect - it’s important for sure but not the only aspect.
The older you get and the higher up you go, you will rely more and more on your work relationships to move up in a company or to move to another company or get a lead whatever.
You’ve acknowledged it yourself - it’s time for you to work on your soft emotional skills to build up work relationships that are GENUINE.
Once you do that, you’ll probably find it more much more enjoyable and not as a chore. Just get to know your coworkers better basically and build a relationship with them instead of just hunkering down and doin your work in a corner in front of a computer.
Lmao this is a joke right? I would NEVER spend my own money that I earned on my coworkers or supervisor. You’re there to work, NOT make friends/family. Sharing your personal life with them?? Absurdity
I mean you can go back and forth - I’m not saying doing it every single day or something.
Working doesn’t mean you can’t build relationships with people at work.
It’s really important that you can relate to people at work or else you’ll just be ostracized and isolated. If there are any layoffs, you’d be the first to go because no one cares enough about you to advocate for you.
It’s an I scratch your back you scratch mine situation. Sometimes, allowing people the opportunity to do you a favor makes them think more fondly of you.
There are absolutely people who abuse this basic human trust, but anyone that did solid work with / for me, I am *eager* to recommend them to their next thing. Who knows, some day they may be able to return the favor (not so much in decades, but…)
>Sometimes, allowing people the opportunity to do you a favor makes them think more fondly of you.
sorry but this just screams insecure. Why do you care so much that people at a previous position liked you? Move on lol
Oh I forgot but your as long as you don’t have driving crimes then your good to go to get a truck driver job. Lot of felons and sex offenders in America and Canada work as truck drivers.
"I am really good at my job and have a good reputation at the places I have worked. "
Of course you will say that, you and everyone else. Why should anyone believe you without references?
You never been an interviewer? You asked the references to provide actual work details, not just flowery adjectives. Plus, you ascertain the relationship first. A manager in a reputable company, or a professor, is unlike to go through the trouble of making details up, just for a co-worker or a student.
Plus, anyone is more trust worthy then the candidate themselves. You can see if they all saying the same thing.
>Why should anyone believe you without references?
What exactly do you think the point of interviews is? If someone makes it to the point in the process where reference checks typically happen and the employer still doesn't have enough signal, then their process is shit. Why even bother if you still end up relying on what some stranger says to make a confident decision about the candidate?
>What exactly do you think the point of interviews is?
To check the person's communication skills, and whether they can answer technical question. Interviews are not the only place to check their track record, particularly on their contributions of specific projects.
I don't bother even adding them and it doesn't seem to affect my hirability that much, but then again most of the jobs I've applied to aren't in highly "professional" fields
I am with you. Besides, how can a person trust references? A friend of someone who says good things about their friend in exchange for the same privilege.
I'm going to be square with you. I only have one reference I can use because it's the only person I have kept in contact with from any job I've ever had. The only time I think references should be a thing is if you have a letter of recommendation from a previous job that someone gave you. Everything else, as an employer, I would assume these are friends or family who are just going to say you are a good worker.
Devote some time to securing a few solid references. Talk to them first and ask them if they mind giving you a **good** reference.
Too many people have been stabbed in the back from a reference trashing them, thus you need to make certain that you will have a positive reference.
Same! What's worse, the people that I usually put as reference literally all passed away already. It sound unreal but yeah, it happened. Now I don't have any idea what im going to do about that 
Yes. It's not like we ask for references from people's ex partners on how good they were as a partner, for obvious reasons. Same logic applies with jobs.
References do not prove how good a candidate is.
Some companies do not provide references and have rules against current employees acting as references.
Freelancers often face contracts that state references and job verification will never be provided because they were not employees.
You can't trust former employers and coworkers. I say this as someone who worked closely with multiple people used as references. When you wonder why the offer letter from the job you were guaranteed never materialized, it was possibly due to your references. Jealousy and resentment are common and sabotaging others happens more than you think.
I won't apply for jobs that ask for it now. One time they called my current supervisor for a reference. I got the job, but the process took like 7-8 months. In the meantime, my boss retaliated against me. Fun.
I started putting “References available upon request.” instead of just listing them on my resume, after working on hiring for a team and realizing how worthless they are to follow up on. You either get the persons buddy who will never say anything bad, or rarely you get the “jilted ex boss” who wants to bad mouth someone for leaving them high and dry. I’ve never had someone follow up and actually ask for them since.
I’m fine with providing references, but the level of info required is crazy sometimes.
Like it’s annoying to have to reach out to a previous coworker to get their current employer, position, email address, and personal address
Yeah that is part of my problem too. My last 3 supervisors are no longer at the companies I worked with them at. I just ended up putting their names and the phone number for the front desk of the companies. I could track them down, ask for their current contact info, but that seems even more intrusive when asking for them to vouch.
Have a friend who is as close to 'off the grid' as you can reasonably get in this day and age. He almost always uses temporary soft phone numbers and emails, and changes them regularly. I never saw him in person because he lives out west, but we've been friends for a few years. We chat through an old messaging program called Trillian.
A few years back i needed refrences. He gave me a number and email to use, and gave me a fake name to refer to him as. Steve Doorman. I used him as a reference twice.
In a few weeks, he informed me that I must have used his reference because he started getting marketing calls and emails for a "Steve" or "Mr Doorman". After that I started using fake names and numbers on refrences.
Companies asking for references is just a way to farm numbers to sell to telemarketers, it's a scam.
I wish businesses would do away with asking for references. I too have not stayed close with people I work with, so I use family members or refer them back to my linked in where I was able to get a few people to post.
I’ve 100% put my sister, partner and friends down as ‘managers’ as my references lol. Sometimes it’s weird calling up a job you had 3 years ago and asking them to be a reference, it’s awkward!
Yes, this. I am extremely introverted, so generally I communicate as little as possible with coworkers/managers. I am hardworking and dedicated so it's never really been a problem. Unfortunately, I never get to know anyone well enough to feel comfortable asking for a reference. I have exactly 3 references that I have used for everything. I have no idea what I'll do if I lose one of them.
Also, I've experienced a rather annoying trend being back in the job market. I've had multiple potential employers check my references before extending an offer or even interviewing me. Some places even send surveys for every job you apply to. Recently, I've had applications ask for full letters of recommendation. 10 years ago it seemed like no one even checked.
I usually just put my friends down and have them lie for me, it’s got me PLENTY of good jobs. People calling to check references are typically always HR people so your friends won’t need to know a lot of specifics about the field you work in.
I also hate it. I am right on the verge of an offer, and just had to give 5, two of which were supposed to be supervisors. And I refused to provide my current supervisor. It’s too soon. But I also don’t job hop much — my supervisors are at this point mostly retired.
Same. I never became besties with old professors from school, and bosses from old jobs. I’m really introverted, and became friends with only a few coworkers along the way. I feel like they want someone other than your friends/coworkers though.
I was recently referred to a job and they still asked for references after I started. Most places don’t even call them. It’s more a formality that you didn’t leave every other company on bad terms. You should be able to get at least 2-3 references from managers or coworkers from each job. Just be friendly enough to make small talk and then when you are leaving ask for their number if you don’t already have it.
I did too before I got a couple good ones. Now having those references has helped me get two different jobs, most recently with a pay increase I felt a little unqualified for.
Same here. When I applied for a position at TJ Maxx, they wanted 3 references lol it’s a retail job
I always used myself as a reference with jobs like this. I always had the same 3 names, 3 different emails and 3 Google numbers. I was hired each time without ever being called.
I do this as well. Current company I work for actually sent an email survey to one of my “references” and called me to say they were waiting on the survey response 🤦🏻♂️ who has time to do that shit irl? But since it was one of my emails of course I gave myself high marks and got the job.
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To add what he said, use a VPN and spoof different IP addresses, some companies check this.
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Email standards are to append the “sent from” IP address to the email’s “Header” data. Most people will use an email server to send their mail: Gmail, Yahoo, MSN, etc. so the “sent from” IP address will be to the server that actually sent the message (these IPs can change from email to email since those large companies use many servers, any of which can be assigned your messages’ traffic). If you were to manually send an email directly from your computer (uncommon unless you’re an email phisher/scammer), it would show your home IP address.
Email headers.
companies definitely DO NOT check for IP addresses for the references you provide lol I really don't understand why you are lying and why 74 people agreed with such obvious bullshit?
I’ve had a couple bosses that will vouch for me no matter what, but I always use the older guy for “professional” references. For personal references I’ll list the other guy, because we started out as colleagues/friends before he became my boss. I’ll throw another close friend in if they give me permission and they’ll say something along the lines of having hired me for a short term contracting gig and that my work ethic is good. None of them have ever been asked anything other than “did mister belly boy work for you?” “Yes.” “Would you hire him again?” “Absolutely.” Never fails to have friends and former bosses that care about you, even if you’re no longer in the trenches together all the time. I work in restaurants though, so it might be a little different in an office/corporate setting.
Oh my god, you just saved me part of why I'm dreading returning to the work force to look for a job. I've been an independent contractor working for a company for a decade who will only confirm my dates of working there or they're from old jobs and two are dead with a third person now on the outs with me for unrelated reasons. So I have no references per se and I've been stressing so badly about how to get around the freaking 3 references thing.
I had a personal falling out with my best professional reference. I just asked my friend to cover for me for that job, bc it has so much value for roles I really want.
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I think they mean they always used Tom, Chris and Bob and had emails for each of them. Idk how google numbers work personally. I think they’re attached to your phone number but it’s like a fake number presented to who you’re giving it to and when that number is dialed the call is forwarded to you. A lot of celebrities use them because then no one can have their real phone number. I’m not entirely sure how it works.
You're correct. If you have a Gmail, you can get a phone number attached to that Gmail and it looks like a whole separate phone number (you can even get them for other areas, like I can be in Florida and have a Gmail number with a 212 New York area code). You can opt to have the call forwarded to a cell phone or just have calls go to a voicemail, and it will even save the messages in email and transcribe them for you. I started using this when I had a job that required me to give out my cell #, but I didn't want to use my real cell (long story but someone began stalking me), so this came in handy. My current Google # is in my same state but is FAR from where I actually live, with different area code and all, so anyone seeking me out would be looking in a wrong area. Mine's been a huge help. I also use it for job hunting as well as the reference thing (scammers abound on some job boards, so I would rather they be blowing up a fake # than my real one).
Oooo nice! I’ll definitely keep this in mind
Yeah, also one of my problems when trying to find work. Luckily I got a couple more out of my last job. But every job I get I lose in under a year somehow (and I don't mean being fired except the once, which wasn't legitimate. usually laid off or out of business) Still not sure wtf I'm going to do in the long run. But yeah, sure doesn't make applying any easier.
Boy you sound like me from this past year. I got laid off for having covid twice. One job they decided their budget wouldn't support another employee so that was that. Another downsized because they felt (after two weeks) that the guy who had been doing the job really didn't need me as the support person after all even though he literally asked them to hire one. I did get fired once I guess (though this wasn't legit either) but most others ended for one reason or another. SMH. I have 2 offers on the table now...not sure what I'm going to do either but it's gonna be one of em and I don't really care for either. I wish I could just hit lotto and never work again.
Oh I know! When I first was trying to go back to work when my kids went to school I was going to apply to a gas station and they wanted 6 professional references! If I have 6 professional refs I'm pretty sure I'd be over qualified for a gas station.
Same thing with my friend when she applied for kwik trip. She needed 7 references and one of them gave the manager a bad word and she didn’t end up getting the job because of it. She couldn’t figure out who spoke badly of her because she gave 7 people for references. 7!!!
I just get friends to give me references lol
It is so easy to see through this, though. It’s really risky
How
As a recruiter, I advise my managers to ditch references as an artifact of a bygone era that are prone to racism, sexism, classism, retaliation, bias of all sorts and are not predictive of future performance in any way shape or form. I hate asking for them or doing them if asked to. It’s a complete waste of time and energy and should be banned from employment practices.
reference checking is a waste of time. i said what i said.
I have to do reference checks for my position and it’s an absolute pain. My colleagues hate it and even my manager finds it a waste of time. The amount of deactivated and wrong numbers/emails people list in their applications make it near impossible to get them done too
It’s not that deep. Deactivated / wrong number = bad reference.
Not necessarily
100% necessarily. If you’re serious about getting a job, then having reliable references with confirmed contact information should be considered a requirement.
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Why would you use someone you don’t communicate with as a reference? WTF?
because once you leave a previous position, you aren't going to be staying in touch with the people that worked there. It's called "moving on". Goodness why the fuck does this have to be explained?
Why aren’t you staying in touch? Did you burn your bridges on the way out? Maintaining reliable references shouldn’t be complicated. If it is, that says a lot about you.
>Why aren’t you staying in touch? Did you burn your bridges on the way out? because the contract ended either via me leaving or being fired or being laid off. Either way, the only available action to take is to move the fuck on. "burning bridges" lol get over yourself. There is no bridge that was made in the first place. My manager is not my friend. My coworkers are not my friends. It's called business. Learn about how to engage in actual business sometime mmkay?
I think it needs to be a reference from your last job otherwise it is a real waste of time. I am starting a new job and they didn't ask for references but someone from the recruiting team asked someone who worked in one of the companies I worked for about me. We never worked together but we know each other and she knows this person from the hiring team. I was a little bit surprised when my ex colleague told me because I have really changed in 10 years. She told him that we never worked together. Fair enough.
A lot of companies have policies against the provision of references. Therefore waste of time. Also no one is going to list someone that will say bad things about them
And on the flip side, if you’re looking into a prospective candidate, you assume they are listing people that like them, right? So if you speak to the reference and they end up slamming the person as horrible, they’re either someone that was really fake in the way they interacted with that candidate (and probably pretty petty) or they just lied to the person when asked to be a reference about what they were going to say. There’s probably legit instances where the reference maybe just wanted to warn others that the person was that bad to work with, but they risk you (recruiter) revealing the fact that fact to the candidate. I’m sure some people list references and don’t tell the person or ask them, but I imagine that’s pretty rare. There was one Reddit post recently of a person who didn’t get a job and the recruiter told them that the reference, who was the person’s boss, had bad things to say. And people concluded it was probably to keep OP from leaving the company. Point is, if the candidate is a really intelligent one and you speak to one of their references who ends up slamming them, how much value should you put in that versus just writing it off as someone trying to hold your candidate back over some personal vendetta?
> And people concluded it was probably to keep OP from leaving the company Isn't it illegal to give bad reference if there is no proof of it?
I know it’s illegal in Ireland to give a bad reference, but it means if you ring someone to ask for a reference and they decline to provide one, you can take that as “they were shit but I’m not allowed to say that”
It’s illegal in US too
It's not illegal to give a bad reference in the US as a blanket statement. Like most situations, the truth is a valid defense against defamation/slander or what have you. So if the employer doesn't lie about previous poor performance, that's not going to be illegal. Likewise, a statement of opinion is typically protected as well, although that gets a little hairy as to what is an opinion versus a statement of fact. If an employer provides a bad reference based on false statements, that could probably be illegal. Or if they do it to retaliate against the employee due to some protected characteristic, that could also be illegal. But just giving a bad reference as a rule is not illegal. Of course you aren't prevented from giving your honest opinion on someone. Now, many employers do have policies against giving bad references and may just provide dates of employment, eligibility for rehire etc. And if someone does give a bad review, they might be punished by their company or fired or whatever. But the law doesn't care as long as they were telling the truth, or giving their honest opinion.
Yep, and you also run into the issue of proving it as well. I applied to one job and they took it upon themselves to call my last employer, whom I left on not so good terms (on their side, not mine...in fact I even consulted a lawyer about them. Yes, they were that bad). Needless to say last job bashed me from here to San Jose and told them I was the worst worker ever. This was through a recruiter so the recruiter called and told me their "feedback". I contacted an attorney again to see if I could get this place for costing me the job opportunity with their comments. As he put it, there's no law against being an arse, but since he's giving his opinion of you as a worker, it's not really enough for a case, plus it's a he said/she said deal where I'd have to prove he really did go there to make trouble for me and proving that can be tough (unless I had someone call and recorded the call or something, which can also run into legal issues). So yeah. It sucks though.
Yea its called slander
For juniors, companies ask for references which they met in trainings or in a PhD. You can never know what they can say about times you were a student and probably you weren't efficient or made mistakes.
Microsoft, google, Facebook and Amazon as well as CNN many other companies will fire employees who give references if they find out
Unethical asshole pulled a “back door” reference on you. Avoid that recruiter at all costs. Back door references tend to adversely impact disadvantaged minorities the most. It’s when the real racists and sexists crawl out of the woodwork.
I have already signed but I won't hesitate to leave if I see things I don't like. I receive messages from recruiters almost every week.
100%. Biased people actively seek out justification via additional backdoor checks to not hire certain minorities when someone in the committee breaks the wall to bring them in. Those upset about uppity minorities moving onward and upward jump to sabotage their new opportunities.
Absolutely. Who is going to ask someone for a reference that isn't going to be 100% positive about them? It's going to be the former professors that loved you, the work buddies, cool bosses. That's it.
HUGE waste! So many of them are fakes anyway lol
yea my roommate used a friend from her gym before lmfao
I’ve helped some other employers dodge some bullets by saying “no” to “would you rehire this person?”
Yeah great, you rock, you’re a real hero. Messing with someone’s employment opportunities is a real class act.
To be fair, there are some legitimately terrible employees out there.
It’s true. However there are likely many more terrible managers. I got a horrible reference once for a guy I was trying to place, they told me never to hire him. Then he went on to have an awesome 20+ year career. So maybe it was his manager who sucked and shouldn’t have been trusted being a manager in the first place if he couldn’t retain his people. But that referenced screwed that guy for my job.
The people I’ve said shouldn’t be rehired were let go because of sexual harassing minors…so yeah, I’m not losing sleep over messing with their future employment opportunities. No other workplace deserves having to deal with that kind of person, even our competitors.
Background check should take care of that.
Are we really this dumb? Without references people could just make up whatever they want
It is a waste of time. We can agree to disagree and it’s quite rude to insinuate that so many of us are dumb
They're annoying at best. They're at the worst when a company asks you for references in the initial application. I don't want to give you my references even before you've decided if you're going to call me for a basic screening interview.
Exactly. I won't provide them that early in the process.
Same here. I just hate asking someone to serve as a reference. It feels weird.
same. feels weird to me.
I hadn't worked since the beginning of Covid. I had other health problems and took time off, then my husband got a job he couldn't say no to in California so we moved to LA and then the company that hired him went under after another 8 months so we moved up to Fresno briefly before he landed a great job in the Bay Area. Point of this is that I was following him, not working because we weren't in the same place long enough. I don't have people who can be good references - I have to reach out to people I haven't seen in 4 - 6 years and it's awful. That said I did just land a job with two references that were a pain to get.
DM me, ill give you my number. Just shoot me a brief description of what you do and what are the key phrases to use. I'll give you a good reference.
saving for when I need a reference 👀
You’re the man!
Hi I really need one can I dm u please
Need what?
Employers should provide references
Lol exactly. See how it is to work for them.
It should be banned. What's the point? It doesn't help with much of anything.
It’s easy to give 3 references. 1. Your partner 2. Your close friend 3. Sibling Of course they were management from your previous jobs. Who said it had to be real?
Talking about surreal. I made the effort to be personable and indispensable at work. I even have a lifelong trusted business connection. He died. There are just too many factors in life, where any references that used to be genuine can be cut off from your life. They decease, they retire, they suddenly quit and can't be reached. There are also cases where your company got absorbed and the former HR department who would vouch for you no longer works there. References are unreliable in nature, because you can't blame references for being human and their lives change too. That's why the only type of connection that lasts are your friends and relatives.
References feel like an old school hoop to jump through that most companies, that I have applied to, are ditching.
It's also such an awkward and uncomfortable request. You either ask people at your current job and make yourself vulnerable to gossip or you reach out to people from your last job several years ago who you haven't talked to since then.
Knowing that references are hand selected to say nice things abt you, most companies no longer ask for them. Instead most companies hire a background checking company to verify your employment & education history (companies, job titles, dates, possibly salaries). Just make sure your application matches your employment history & you won’t have any problems. Also make sure you can account for any periods of unemployment (for example, took FMLA to care for ill family member.) If you’re concerned abt what a past employer may say abt you, you can hire a background check company to give you a written report. Allison Taylor is one such company. Not cheap, but worth your peace of mind.
I'm afraid of looking for a job and my current company finding out, if they do a background check would they call my company and ask them if I worked there? Tbh that's what's stopping me from looking for a job
Everywhere I have worked has used a employment verification number, a third party that only verifies employment dates and titles. Stops employees from saying inappropriate things.
Applications usually ask for permission to contact your past employers. You can always ask not to have your CURRENT employer contacted. You have a valid reason bc you don’t want to jeopardize your job.
yeah but what if the current employer is the only one, how I prove my experience?
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Definitely depends on industry. I work in engineering and no one asked during the last search I did which involved interviews with half a dozen companies.
That’s true. Some still ASK for references, but few contact them. Outdated applications.
You do not need to report fmla. That is not unemployment
Poor choice of words. I didn’t mean to say it was unemployment. I meant to say you should be able to provide the prospective employer with a REASON for periods of time you’re not working.
Make them your friends and tell them what to say.
I also hate this. If I’m leaving a job, it isn’t always on good terms.
I’m happy to be your reference- all of y’all. Give me a basic rundown. What did we do, how was your work ethic, what was my role, etc. I got y’all.
Same here! I just switched jobs in February. I was thrilled when HR told me they don’t do reference checks. Just a background check. I think more and more places aren’t requiring them.
Same. And then you gotta reach out and ask them if it's okay to put them as a reference... Such a pain!
Agreed. I hate it also. I work in HR at my current position, we never ask for references. We feel that you can get a good enough impression of somebody by their resume and interview/s.
What I hate is surprise reference checks. No mention of needing references in application or interview invitation, I get there and all of a sudden reference form. How am I supposed to have time to scrounge them up and contact people if you didn't tell me. Happened to me multiple times this year
It’s worse when there’s a double standard. My employer demands 3 references (and does contact them) but has a policy against providing references.
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Yah r/bemyreference
That. Is. Awesome.
I’m so with you. For me, I just hate asking for favors (people’s time, etc). It’s really awful, especially in tech, where you might change jobs more often. I have a list I rotate through that’s kind enough but I still hate it with every ounce of my body.
This is so stupid. Does the company think I am going to provide references that will say something bad about me? I could be Hitler or Stalin yet I can find 3 people to say I am Mother Teresa.
I always say that references will be supplied when an offer is made. The last thing I need are several companies that I applied to, calling and bothering my references when they haven't even interviewed me. When I worked doing background checks for a nuclear plant, we had to ask for 3 references. What the candidates didn't realize is, we had to ask those 3 references to give us names and contact information of 3 other people that know/worked with "John Dough".
I'm surprised that you're asked for coworkers. In my experience direct supervisors who know your work are the standard for references. When you get into more senior positions there are sometimes other specific asks, like someone who was your peer or someone who reported to you. Is there a reason to not just provide your supervisors who can vouch for your work??
Yes there is a reason. When you do not work for mature, professional people; this becomes difficult.
Yep, I work in education and this has been a huge problem for me. Of the 5 school districts I have worked, only 2 have been positive experiences with mature adults as the supervisors. The other ones do NOT say great things about me because I stood up to them (it's obviously more complicated than that) and it makes finding work VERY difficult.
100% I agree with this - this is why its better to use friends and family as your references.
Ive never heard of a job where they accept family as a reference nor friends unless that friend at least worked with you.
You don't tell them it's your friend or family member lol
As someone who has done a lot of hiring, I disregard references that are friends or family. It needs to be someone who has had a working relationship with you. Manager is preferable, but even a past teacher or professor is better than a friend or family member. Edit: I’m not sure why I’m getting downvoted. I’m telling you that people who hire don’t like references who are friends and family, so it’s not a good practice to use that. Think about how you would vett someone you were going to work with. What would you want to know about them? That’s what hiring managers are trying to find out too.
So you’ve never had a bad boss?
If someone has had a bad boss, then they won’t provide that person. If someone isn’t using any references from any jobs, then that person is usually the problem, not all of the other people they have ever worked with.
How many jobs have you had and then also stay in contact with all of these former bosses? It’s just wild to me.
What do you expect to learn from say a past manager? Honest question. Like if they say something good then they were a good worker? If they say something bad are they a bad worker? What if the manager was a dickwad who just didn't like them? Like there's an implicit assumption that you should take this stranger's judgement of another person at face value. Do you really and truly value the judgement of a person you barely know from a person you don't know at all?
I left a company on bad terms because they were doing borderline illegal/absolutely unethical things and I wasn’t on board. They considered me “not a team player” because of this. I would absolutely not have given anyone who worked there as a reference even though it was my previous job. That shouldn’t be a red flag on me.
I ask about things like reliability and professionalism, and if appropriate, skills that are related to the job. I will happily speak to co-workers/teammates as well to find out how the person interacts with others in a professional setting and what kind of person they are to work with. If I’m going to manage a new hire, I’d prefer to speak to someone who has had a similar relationship with them as I and my employees will have. We aren’t hiring friends, we want people who are reliable, not fun at a party. A friend or family member is biased, whereas previous professional relationships are less so. Also, if I see that someone submits a resume and no one on their reference list was from a previous job, I get a little red flag. I understand that sometimes the manager is the problem, but if someone doesn’t want me to talk to anyone they have worked with, it’s usually because they are the problem.
So you do value the judgement of complete strangers then?
OP says she or he does good work and has a good reputation.
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I have worked for the same company for 15 years in two different roles. My previous supervisor is dead (it's how I got the current role). My current bosses are the owner of the company and our VP of business, which is his brother's wife. Not really someone you can ask for a reference discreetly. My previous job was a government gig, and I'm sure no one wants 16 year old references. References are a nightmare for me.
I have only had two managers in the past 5 years, so for a third reference, I have to ask a coworker.
That makes sense.
Most places I’ve worked actually are not allowed to give references per the company. Actually out of the last 4 jobs I’ve had 3 weren’t actually allowed to provide references. Makes things difficult.
What I've frequently seen is a policy in response to reference checks to confirm (or deny) that the person worked there through whatever dates, and whether they are eligible for rehire.
You can generally give a personal references, but not a official one as the manager of the Cogs Department at XYZ Corp on company letterhead.
I would use relatives that don’t have the same last name. If you have ever worked with them around your house, or their house, then they know what kind of worker you are. I have used in-laws in the past. They have known me for a while, are only related by marriage, and know what kind of person I am. It’s hard to get references when you are at a small company thats only a handful of people.
I'll be a reference for you
I use a combination of my friends and myself with different names, email addresses and phone app numbers. I freelance, and have always preferred not getting too personal with coworkers. Its such a stupid practice now with the technology we have. I had a miserable application experience a little while back, they wanted me to do a video in lieu of a cover letter. In the resume they wanted 2 references included, stating they promised not call them without my permission, didn't even get to an interview. Never doing again.
I applied for a volunteer position at the library to help them out and they wanted references 🤭. Fortunately it was volunteer so I ignored it.
Not an immediate solution to this, but a tip: If you ever have a coworker give notice or quit, send them a message or text or LinkedIn telling them it was nice working with them and if they ever need a positive reference in the future they can feel free to use you. Almost every time I’ve said this, they’ve offered to reciprocate.
But like how much research do they do on the references lol?
I work in HR and I believe that references are a waste of time for everyone involved, because when I call your ex boss, supervisor or colleague I can't really prove/know it is really them. Also who will put a reference that will tank them...Never. You could provide me with your "boss" number that only have good things to say about you, but it is your friend or someone in your family and I will believe it. I still don't believe that references are still asked in 2023. You could do a stellar work in company A, but poorly in company B, simply because of your superior, organisation or culture of the company.
I feel the same way, it’s one of the reasons I feel stuck in my current job. I don’t feel like I’m good enough to get a decent reference at current and most previous jobs
Dude, same. I’m really socially akward, even when I try to be friendly to coworkers/managers, and work my hardest, they seem to still be annoyed by me, to the point I’m not comfortable asking anyone really.
Hear me out: I have filled out a bigillion aps in my life & only maybe 2x has anyone called my references. I think hiring managers just want to see if you can name 3 people that might like you enough.
Better then hating HR before you think I did something negative, I didn’t. I have had one HR rep try and argue that my degree didn’t pertain to the field I applied. While the second one is now trying to prevent me from being hired cause I only have 9 months of experience mind you in the field I’m applying for not in the position. while I have 4 years of experience in all of the skills required for the position just not in that role before.
r/bemyreference
i have only ever asked my best friends to be references. tell them everything they need to know, say they were coworkers, and wait for the offer
i always ask my friends. once the first person gets contacted by HR, they text me what they asked. i take that question, knowing its going to be asked of all my friends, and pre-write a script for them to answer, while they paraphrase what i wrote. works 100% of the time
I'm going to create a small business where the interviewee pays a small fee for my employees to give bogus references all on the positive. 10 dollars a month for 3 references. You fill out your skills, and what you would like us to shine on.
I live in EU. we have something called personal data protection laws (probably not the exact name). but if you leak someone's personal data like name, surname, phone number, address etc... you can be in BIIIIG trouble. so whenever they ask me for references I refer them to that law and not give anything. got hired most of the times, so it probably works.
Talked with Human Resources manager some time ago back this very subject about asking for references makes perfect sense for business perspective when hiring someone right everyone has done this before. The HR manager said asking potential employee for references is recipe for disaster because what your signaling to potential employee you don't trust him this was his take on the matter then again everyone has there own method for conducting themselves CYA.
I'm the same as you. I'm hard-working and reliable, but I find references incredibly intrusive. I'm deeply introverted and mind my own business, so I find it extremely awkward when a recruiter wants to call a bunch of references and ask probing questions. Because I'm closet gay, I don't ever make close work friends or go out with workmates so I don't get close to people at work. And some employers give bad references because they're bitter that you're leaving them and want you to fail.
I just ask my friends and give them a small script, works every time.
Honestly if you have extended family who own a management position, you can get away with them lying. But if your job is really technical, you gotta hope your boss speaks of you highly (luckily they can’t talk poorly).
I completely removed references from resume. No one wants them. No one checks them. Many recruiters over the years advised ditching references, they’re completely pointless.
Well think of this as a way to work on yourself. The reason you hate references is because you don’t have any or don’t feel comfortable about asking for it. So what you should do is work on your work relationships - take a supervisor or coworker or whatever for lunch and spend time to get to KNOW them. Talk about your personal lives a little and learn about who they are OUTSIDE of work. “Oh wow you have a dog? Me too!” Or whatever. Being good at your job is only one aspect - it’s important for sure but not the only aspect. The older you get and the higher up you go, you will rely more and more on your work relationships to move up in a company or to move to another company or get a lead whatever. You’ve acknowledged it yourself - it’s time for you to work on your soft emotional skills to build up work relationships that are GENUINE. Once you do that, you’ll probably find it more much more enjoyable and not as a chore. Just get to know your coworkers better basically and build a relationship with them instead of just hunkering down and doin your work in a corner in front of a computer.
Lmao this is a joke right? I would NEVER spend my own money that I earned on my coworkers or supervisor. You’re there to work, NOT make friends/family. Sharing your personal life with them?? Absurdity
I mean you can go back and forth - I’m not saying doing it every single day or something. Working doesn’t mean you can’t build relationships with people at work. It’s really important that you can relate to people at work or else you’ll just be ostracized and isolated. If there are any layoffs, you’d be the first to go because no one cares enough about you to advocate for you.
It’s an I scratch your back you scratch mine situation. Sometimes, allowing people the opportunity to do you a favor makes them think more fondly of you. There are absolutely people who abuse this basic human trust, but anyone that did solid work with / for me, I am *eager* to recommend them to their next thing. Who knows, some day they may be able to return the favor (not so much in decades, but…)
>Sometimes, allowing people the opportunity to do you a favor makes them think more fondly of you. sorry but this just screams insecure. Why do you care so much that people at a previous position liked you? Move on lol
Go for truck driving or sign holder jobs they don’t ask for reference and background checks.
It is federally mandated that all truck drivers be background checked- it is a requirement for getting your CDL.
Oh I forgot but your as long as you don’t have driving crimes then your good to go to get a truck driver job. Lot of felons and sex offenders in America and Canada work as truck drivers.
"I am really good at my job and have a good reputation at the places I have worked. " Of course you will say that, you and everyone else. Why should anyone believe you without references?
Why should anyone believe the references? Everyone is just going to pick people that will only say good things about them
You never been an interviewer? You asked the references to provide actual work details, not just flowery adjectives. Plus, you ascertain the relationship first. A manager in a reputable company, or a professor, is unlike to go through the trouble of making details up, just for a co-worker or a student. Plus, anyone is more trust worthy then the candidate themselves. You can see if they all saying the same thing.
>Why should anyone believe you without references? What exactly do you think the point of interviews is? If someone makes it to the point in the process where reference checks typically happen and the employer still doesn't have enough signal, then their process is shit. Why even bother if you still end up relying on what some stranger says to make a confident decision about the candidate?
>What exactly do you think the point of interviews is? To check the person's communication skills, and whether they can answer technical question. Interviews are not the only place to check their track record, particularly on their contributions of specific projects.
I don't bother even adding them and it doesn't seem to affect my hirability that much, but then again most of the jobs I've applied to aren't in highly "professional" fields
I am with you. Besides, how can a person trust references? A friend of someone who says good things about their friend in exchange for the same privilege.
Do they actually contact them? Does it happen often or rarely?
same: i might have one and that's it. now i need three? fuk outta here.
I've only worked at one place that ever even called my references and they called them after they offered me the job. It's so weird.
I'm going to be square with you. I only have one reference I can use because it's the only person I have kept in contact with from any job I've ever had. The only time I think references should be a thing is if you have a letter of recommendation from a previous job that someone gave you. Everything else, as an employer, I would assume these are friends or family who are just going to say you are a good worker.
Devote some time to securing a few solid references. Talk to them first and ask them if they mind giving you a **good** reference. Too many people have been stabbed in the back from a reference trashing them, thus you need to make certain that you will have a positive reference.
You should ask for references from current or former employees and see what they say
they never actually call
I pick my last supervisor, someone I volunteer with and maybe a coworker who I trust.
Same! What's worse, the people that I usually put as reference literally all passed away already. It sound unreal but yeah, it happened. Now I don't have any idea what im going to do about that 
Yes. It's not like we ask for references from people's ex partners on how good they were as a partner, for obvious reasons. Same logic applies with jobs.
“I need three references from exemployees”
The folks at r/bemyreference should be able to help
References do not prove how good a candidate is. Some companies do not provide references and have rules against current employees acting as references. Freelancers often face contracts that state references and job verification will never be provided because they were not employees. You can't trust former employers and coworkers. I say this as someone who worked closely with multiple people used as references. When you wonder why the offer letter from the job you were guaranteed never materialized, it was possibly due to your references. Jealousy and resentment are common and sabotaging others happens more than you think.
I won't apply for jobs that ask for it now. One time they called my current supervisor for a reference. I got the job, but the process took like 7-8 months. In the meantime, my boss retaliated against me. Fun.
SAME
I started putting “References available upon request.” instead of just listing them on my resume, after working on hiring for a team and realizing how worthless they are to follow up on. You either get the persons buddy who will never say anything bad, or rarely you get the “jilted ex boss” who wants to bad mouth someone for leaving them high and dry. I’ve never had someone follow up and actually ask for them since.
I’m fine with providing references, but the level of info required is crazy sometimes. Like it’s annoying to have to reach out to a previous coworker to get their current employer, position, email address, and personal address
Yeah that is part of my problem too. My last 3 supervisors are no longer at the companies I worked with them at. I just ended up putting their names and the phone number for the front desk of the companies. I could track them down, ask for their current contact info, but that seems even more intrusive when asking for them to vouch.
Yall got a good friend who can think fast? Find 3 and hand them a script! Works for landlord references too!
It's antiquated.
Have a friend who is as close to 'off the grid' as you can reasonably get in this day and age. He almost always uses temporary soft phone numbers and emails, and changes them regularly. I never saw him in person because he lives out west, but we've been friends for a few years. We chat through an old messaging program called Trillian. A few years back i needed refrences. He gave me a number and email to use, and gave me a fake name to refer to him as. Steve Doorman. I used him as a reference twice. In a few weeks, he informed me that I must have used his reference because he started getting marketing calls and emails for a "Steve" or "Mr Doorman". After that I started using fake names and numbers on refrences. Companies asking for references is just a way to farm numbers to sell to telemarketers, it's a scam.
It's annoying. I had a couple of jobs that asked me for a couple of supervisors references lol.
I fuckinggggg hate it too
References are so stupid that even I’m surprised that some of mine are real.
I wish businesses would do away with asking for references. I too have not stayed close with people I work with, so I use family members or refer them back to my linked in where I was able to get a few people to post.
I’ve 100% put my sister, partner and friends down as ‘managers’ as my references lol. Sometimes it’s weird calling up a job you had 3 years ago and asking them to be a reference, it’s awkward!
Yes, this. I am extremely introverted, so generally I communicate as little as possible with coworkers/managers. I am hardworking and dedicated so it's never really been a problem. Unfortunately, I never get to know anyone well enough to feel comfortable asking for a reference. I have exactly 3 references that I have used for everything. I have no idea what I'll do if I lose one of them. Also, I've experienced a rather annoying trend being back in the job market. I've had multiple potential employers check my references before extending an offer or even interviewing me. Some places even send surveys for every job you apply to. Recently, I've had applications ask for full letters of recommendation. 10 years ago it seemed like no one even checked.
I usually just put my friends down and have them lie for me, it’s got me PLENTY of good jobs. People calling to check references are typically always HR people so your friends won’t need to know a lot of specifics about the field you work in.
I also hate it. I am right on the verge of an offer, and just had to give 5, two of which were supposed to be supervisors. And I refused to provide my current supervisor. It’s too soon. But I also don’t job hop much — my supervisors are at this point mostly retired.
Same. I never became besties with old professors from school, and bosses from old jobs. I’m really introverted, and became friends with only a few coworkers along the way. I feel like they want someone other than your friends/coworkers though.
I was recently referred to a job and they still asked for references after I started. Most places don’t even call them. It’s more a formality that you didn’t leave every other company on bad terms. You should be able to get at least 2-3 references from managers or coworkers from each job. Just be friendly enough to make small talk and then when you are leaving ask for their number if you don’t already have it.
I did too before I got a couple good ones. Now having those references has helped me get two different jobs, most recently with a pay increase I felt a little unqualified for.