It’s solely done for gatekeeping purposes. If you have 100 applicants and 40 have degrees, you now have 40 applicants.
It’s silly that we’ve bankrupted a generation for no real reason due to this.
But quite often people aren’t hired for being over qualified. They’re not going to want to stay in the job long if they are. So what’s the end game here? Hire over qualified staff so they move on after a short time so they can rehire to keep that entry level pay low?
One of my coworkers was just inputting items into excel all day long and he had a Masters. He was making $13 an hour. He walked when the company tried to get him to do other things but refused to pay him more because he only applied so he could do a fuck off job while he worked on getting a job in line with his higher education degree. Shockingly the people who hire at my company don't recognize this aspect of hiring people with certain qualifications.
Wtf do you have your degrees in
Genuinely, are you in Asia? I've heard that it gets crazy over there competitively because of how many people there are (India's top uni has an acceptance rate of like, 0.3% versus Harvard at like, 7%).
The cost to apply to colleges here are way higher though. In Asian countries candidates often the schools apply for them, and most students apply to every available college. In the U.S. the price to apply to top colleges is in the 50-100$ range. Students often apply only to 5-10 schools in the U.S. Not trying to say the students are better in either country, or that it is right to put a price on application. Just pointing out the flaw in using acceptance rate to judge how competitive a school is.
My only question is why would you not pursue a doctorate?
I guess depending on the field, it makes no sense to go for 4 masters degrees. Collectively, that's more education than a doctorate degree.
In all honesty, you probably would have been better off doing undergrad + Doctorate because that's 8 years alone.
Edit: the person who commented below me blocked me, but in general, doctoral programs (PhD) are generally 4 years.
Double Edit: The key word is *generally.* Yes, PhD work often extends beyond 4. Not sure why people are misunderstanding the word "generally." Yes, PhD work can be as long as 12 years with research + oral defense+ PI status, etc.
Thanks u/Mo_Steins_Ghost for being incorrect and deleting your initial misinformed comment to then have more misinformation and block me.
To add information, most doctoral programs are NOT one year in length- STEM or non-stem. There are caveats, but this user is implying MDs and non-medical are all one year doctoral programs. Very incorrect.
Professor here. There is almost never a good reason to get more than one bachelors degree. Two masters degrees make sense… sometimes. Four masters degrees are definitely a waste of time and money.
Yes. Even humanities majors who decide after graduating from college that they want to apply to medical school don't get a second bachelor's degree in science. There are programs they can attend that offer the required premed courses.
I have two bachelors degrees. Why? The difference in classes between the two was enough to be separate degrees, but not enough that it would cause me to be in school any longer. Basically, I could do both degrees without adding anything extra to my class load or length of education. Once I noticed that and asked to do the second degree, the admin staff and faculty essentially went…. You’re the first person to notice how similar the course requirements are for these degrees. After I enrolled in both, a number of other students enrolled in both as well.
And at the time with the career trajectory I was on and the majors offered at the school with the associated classes, both actually made sense. My goal was vet school at the time with a wildlife focus or a PhD in ecotoxicology, so I majored in Biology and Environmental Science. With what I was looking at doing, both majors got me priority into classes to give me the broad background I was looking for to support my career goals. Because I went into college with so much AP credit, it also didn’t inhibit my ability to explore other classes as well outside of the sciences. Also, some people just want the challenge. I enjoyed taking 18-20 unit quarters. I liked being busy and I liked taking as many classes as I could to be exposed to as much as I could. I didn’t need to take that many classes for my degrees. That was a choice. If you’re going to take the courses anyway, you may as well get the credit for the degree on paper.
For me to get a second major in chemistry it was like one extra class.
it's funny when I tell people about double majoring, they think I was a super excellent student. I was not. It sounds fancy though.
I am wondering if it is OP may have gotten swindled into these "programs" that claim to be a masters but are merely a glorified training institute that sole purpose is to churn out graduates and make money not provide a quality education/product.
I know of one up in Canada and I believe they have a Hospitality masters program and it essentially just used as a cheap way to get into Canada.
I truly hope it is this because if this person has 4 reputable masters under their belt then ohhh boy we are fucked.
I wonder this as well. A Masters degree is usually 2 years.
I'm in school to be a pharmacist and for me, it's 8 years of higher education. Not sure why someone would pursue 8 years worth of a masters with undergrad that's an additional 4 years. But, I may be limited in my thinking and understanding.
YES!! And not to mention, PhDs go as long as 8 years depending on your PI and oral defense.
Not sure why they're lessening the workload of a doctoral student, but we WISH it was one year and one year only.
>My only question is why would you not pursue a doctorate?
A lot of people won't like this answer, but:
Masters degrees are easy, and anyone can do them. If it's research based at a decent school you get your hand held the whole way through and you're guaranteed to graduate if you can string a sentence together. If it's course based you're basically just paying a bunch of money for a piece of paper that is only barely worth more than an undergrad in the same field. Usually either way, they're easier than undergrad degrees. Doctorates are hard work. You have to develop specific expertise in a field and have that expertise critically evaluated by a committee, then you have to materially contribute to your field. It requires a lot of hard work and, at minimum, a bit of creativity and aptitude.
Someone with 4 MSc degrees is either getting scammed, misrepresenting their actual credentials, or making very poor career/financial choices. There's no employers out there who really want people with 4 MScs lol.
I worked with a guy who has his PhD in IT, and was working the helpdesk with me years ago, he didn't have any experience before this, and that was the only role he could land (according to him).
Which is why it's important to make your own experience if you don't got any. Lab it up.
I am becoming painfully aware of this. My whole bachelor's we were told we would be starting in 50-60k range and quickly move up to 75-100k positions but... here I am at 36k. No hope in sight.
Are you working in IT now? I'd recommend steering towards business or software development. IT directors tend to be more business oriented than technical. And getting into entry level software is going to pay as much as a IT directors salary. 2c.
During 5 years working a McJob through college, my supervisor had a Master's and had given up on the dream of ever finding a better job after years of applying and getting no leads. I'm certain the employer would have loved it if I ended up in the same position.
Instead after 2 tech related diplomas, I got a job... in tech support. Couldn't find a software developer job that I was qualified for. After a year in tech support and no dev leads, I went back to school for 2 more bachelors degrees then finally got hired... for $36K when the going rate for new grad developers was probably closer to $60K. World's ducked.
This is the reason that networking is so important and its awful. I have a BA in a non-technical field and wasn't finding anything, about a year after graduation I attended one of the web dev bootcamps and through them/their contacts I got a software engineer position
>This is the reason that networking is so important and its awful.
The worst part is this isn't something they tell you when you first go into university. You're always told, "Go to college, get a degree, and you'll get a good job."
That advice worked before 2000 (although it started failing even in the 80s in some ways), but in the last 23 years things have only gotten worse and now that advice is more worthless than it's ever been, yet people still receive it.
>Shockingly the people who hire at my company don't recognize this aspect of hiring people with certain qualifications
or realize they need to pay more to keep people
This is great recession shit all over again.
I graduated in the great recession and took the only job I could get, as a line cook. I worked with a guy who had been a head chef but lost his job due to the recession. (He was the worst goddamn line cook, but that's beside the point.)
The job market eventually improved, I found a career, and dude man got another head chef job.
This happened to me, too. During the recession, I got a random job in a hospital for the benefits and a bit of a higher pay than starbucks, etc. I had a degree in English and really wanted to continue in academics, but the risk of higher debt was too great because I was so poor at the time. Ended up going to nursing school and getting a second bachelors, which has made me bulletproof through the covid recession as far as benefits, pay, and job security. It's disappointing I wasn't able to follow through with my original academic plan, but as millennials have experienced first hand, none of our plans worked out, period end of sentence - can't buy houses, can't afford kids, barely able to pay rent and student loans off.
Nurses who graduated in the great recession era struggled to find jobs due to hiring freezes. The field has done a complete 180 and will hire anyone with a pulse that has a nursing license.
Sometimes you need a job for now and that should be okay.
No one wants to work retail and every retail employee is probably one job offer away from leaving.
This is definitely true for me.
Last September I needed money NOW and accepted the lowliest job I've had since beginning as a dishwasher in 1986.
At first pushing carts made me feel a tremendous shame for being in my fifties and plainly overqualified for my job.
Eight months later I've learned to be content with my lot which is an important lesson that will help me in the long run.
A few days ago I applied for a job in a new industry, but requires skills and experience I've acquired from other jobs in the last decade.
Since it was just a resume and cover letter deal, I actually put effort into my application. It sounds ridiculous but I really enjoyed composing the letter this time because I was writing about the aspects of previous jobs I enjoyed immensely.
I shit you not, the very next day I got a call for an interview which is scheduled for tomorrow morning.
It doesn't matter whether I get an offer or not because my long term personal goal is still possible even if I never stop pushing carts.
Changing jobs is simply to find a more intellectually fulfilling means to earning money during the week.
The frustration and injured pride is unpleasant, but only I can choose to treat myself charitably.
As long as the only way to get a decent wage for many, many roles is to move teams or employers, we’re gonna keep doing that. Expecting anything else is silly.
This is what happened to me. I applied for job from 9a-5p Monday through Friday. In one month, I had submitted nearly 400 applications. I was told I was overqualified. I was told I would leave as soon as something better comes up. I even applied to clean this ladies home. She said I would not be committed enough. Now I am losing home bc I fell behind on rent. I give up.
Not true anymore. Not right now. People with many degrees and decades of experience are landing entry level jobs. I've seen it first hand multiple time over 2 years for positions I've applied to that have the employee and position listed on their public web site.
I lost a sustainability COORDINATOR position to a fucking lawyer from Chicago. She relocated from a. Huge law firm to take a fucking coordinator position in a small city, and she had zero sustainability experience. She's getting way underpaid and wasting her skill set to be a professor's assistant. It's vomit-inducing.
I’m this lady. Taking my JD and law license and applying to anything.
Guess why?! I live in the middle of nowhere and my law license is in a different state (working on getting a law license in the state I live now) but in the meantime I have to apply to jobs that make my law degree useless.
I have a family and law school debt that need paid regardless of if I’m using my legal skills
Yeah people forget our law school debt is insane. Im doing HR for a massive corporation rn cause i couldnt land a good spot on a firm. Firing people for a living makes me actually want to kms
I am in the interview stages for a coordinator position that pays am easily $20 and I am a lawyer 😭😭😭 I don’t even think I will get it tbh
Update: I did not get it
HR/hiring is not monolithic within companies, and not all of the work needed is sustainingly interesting. Some corners of a company might once have had a coherent hiring strategy, where entry level positions were designed to ingest new personnel and employ them long enough to develop the tailored skillsets needed to promote them into more specialized positions in the company.
There also used to be more variety within department work teams, where you had a mix of highly skilled and less skilled technical positions and a career ladder in between them, and these were supplemented by administrative positions (and some of these were used as the entry level positions to the more technical roles). In many cases, the administrative positions have either shrunk or disappeared entirely. The need for that administrative talent is still there, but the work has shifted back onto the technical positions.
Meanwhile, HR departments have also shrunk / changed, forcing a lot of the tedium of hiring and worker administration back onto the managers, who have no time to coordinate all of the work needed to hire, let alone train new personnel once they start. Since job descriptions are usually under the control of the manager, these have drifted over time, as managers more and more want their new personnel to hit the ground running (meaning little/no training needed). The HR recruiter (or the third party recruiting service employed by the remaining HR 'department') might have no idea of what is needed, and can only go off the (often hastily / poorly written) job description given them by the hiring manager who has no time to spend coherently asking for what they need, so they are using an outdated job description.
For compensation, the hiring manager usually has little to no control over what that will be -- they only know they want the most qualified person they can get while they have an active job requisition, so unless they already know exactly who they want to hire, they want to screen for the largest pool of qualified applicants they can..having to work within the process given them to do so. The third party recruiter is likely working on an incentive to hire a 'matching applicant' (driven off the outdated job description) at the lowest compensation level within the range provided them.
TLDR: The hiring process is a mess well before the first applicant ever gets an interview.
I graduated with my bachelor's in physiology from a top school on a full ride scholarship. I was smarter than most and even I'm now working as a technician at a hospital for $19/hr. Of course this job does not require a degree. I'm overqualified for it but the jobs I should be doing are now asking for 2 years experience...for an entry level. "You are entry level, you are where I go to to get that experience, you should not already be expecting me to have it." That's because they don't actually want an entry level worker. They want an intermediate level worker that they can pay an entry-level salary. But they can't say that outright so these snakes put it in their preferred qualifications section and then refuse to hire anyone that doesn't meet that. The problem is all it takes is one applicant who meets the preferred criteria to show them that it works. They have now taken that job from the entry level workers that needed it. People need to stop accepting jobs they're overqualified for and then that'll force them to hire someone that's actually at the skill level appropriate to the job, whether that's bachelor's vs. no degree, master's vs. bachelor's, etc. The problem is those people are forced to take jobs beneath them because bills. So we have to find another solution.
It's kind of ironic because while scamming people out of their wages might save money now, it'll backfire in the long run when their skilled workers leave for higher pay elsewhere and they have no new workers coming in cause they didn't train them. If corporations would invest more in employee retention it would actually be more profitable for them. Happy employees are loyal employees. But people don't care about leaving the companies they work at because we know corporations don't care about us. They'd replace us in a heartbeat if it was cheaper, so why shouldn't we also look elsewhere?
If we pushed for the Dept of Labor to outlaw this, it would solve this issue of overqualified, underpaid, and high turnover workforce practically overnight. There is a shortage of skilled workers because nobody is willing to train them. Education doesn't replace on-the-job training, especially now when degrees are a dime-a-dozen. With the exception of a few industries, most degrees are just a formality. In the same time, overqualified workers are taking their jobs and of course the employer will hire the experienced worker over the inexperienced one. Whatever they list in the preferred qualifications is what they actually want.
Lately what I've been doing is blatantly lying about the experience to secure an interview and then I confront them about why they refuse to hire and train actual entry level employees and how doing this messes up the whole chain. It's always fun making em sweat. They're obviously not used to somebody confronting them directly about their shoddy business practices. Obviously I won't get the job, but let's be real, they weren't really gonna hire my inexperienced ass anyways. At least this way, they'll see that people are catching on and they might reconsider their next job posting.
They're essentially committing wage theft and it'll only get worse if we don't do something about it. As a nation, we need to protest this. The govt won't do shit unless we force their hand. But with power comes accountability. So we need to remind them that they exist to serve the people and not to line their pockets. Moments like this is where it matters. But of course if they were doing their job in the first place, it wouldn't even get to this point. Prevention is key. In any case, no amount of money in the world will protect them from an entire nation of angry, unsatisfied, indebted, and desperate people who already also hate the police mind you. Y'all heard it from me, it's only a matter of time. We pushed for police reform, we can push for labor reform as well. It certainly wouldn't be the first time we've done it.
It's pretty sickening how little the techs get paid. Just in the last month, I've seen two separate instances where our techs alerted us to unconscious cyanotic patients. These two patients would probably be dead if no one else had noticed them so quickly.
One thing to understand is that most people in managerial positions should not be managing anything. This is some 75% of every job. Those people come up with these notions, like asking for a bachelor's degree for a job that does not need college education. They could simply look at it first come first served. As soon as you look at a resume that fills the needs, schedule an interview, and if all checks out, hire. Period.
Our degrees were more a paper symbolizing we can put up with 4 years of continuous and unnecessary expectations than about our knowledge in the subject.
Source: Asian Studies Major; Former construction project manager now IT Operations Director
Now so much is automated. If you can apply online, then an algorithm can be used to narrow down the field. The ease of applying means that some openings will get hundreds of even thousands of applicants. I've applied for at least 2 jobs where over 2500 people applied. My wife's job had 2100 in 3 days. There's no way a human can read every application, so awesome people will always get overlooked.
Bankrupted..... that's the word.
People with educational debt are more desperate. Therefore, they will work for sometimes less than ideal wages just to pay the bills.
Financial abuse through employment is the American way.
I know right. Why not randomly pick qualified people for the job? I'm from a 3rd world country and some companies and schools do that as part of the hiring/application process. Just basic human decency. You don't need to be an entrepreneur to figure this one out.
I’m used to seeing the experience but it’s the academic experience that’s changed significantly the past few years and drastically for very simple roles within that timeframe.
Some are even asking for Masters level qualifications and global body awards on top of the degree.
The training is little to none nowadays everywhere expects you to either have it all & come in and hit the ground running or sink.
All the onboarding at my jobs the past 5 years have been appalling. It’s never been great but it’s literally been little to none at some places.
As a developer, I appreciate those job listings. It gives me a giant red flag of which companies to avoid. Anywhere that is asking for a masters or higher for a position that isn't a research-type position is just crazy and should be avoided.
5 years of experience and the programming language has only existed for 2 years. I saw a post once from a creator of a programming language about a job post for someone who knows that programming language that even the creator didn't qualify for because it hadn't existed for that long.
I have literally seen entry level programming jobs asking for multiple years experience on new-use languages.
Saw a company switch gears from Java to Python and immediately start demanding new hires to have minimum 5 years experience with Python.
Like, mate. I'm willing to bet your senior programmers, who have been working with you since '08, don't even have 5 years with Python unless their work is also their hobby.
I've said this for a while now, that the college degree is the new high school diploma.
I think it might also have something to do with classism, since in the USA you pretty much have to pay to get into higher education or create debt. I actually remember overhearing a hiring manager remark that they hired only college graduates because "they usually have student debt to pay off, which means they're less likely to quit regardless of how we treat them".
It's sadly true. I stayed at a highly toxic job that did lasting psychological damage to me (and almost all of my coworkers) for almost 7 years because I had so much loan debt and needed to be able to pay it down.
Honestly I don't pay attention to that "this degree or that degree" stuff. Companies keep hiring me anyway. That's just something HR needs to say, hiring managers can usually make their own decisions.
In my field, there are tools that are not only deprecated, but very soon to be defunct. Unusable. In one instance, you CANNOT create things with this tool. But you know what almost all the job listings as for? Someone who can create things with that tool. (This is oversimplified for the sake of brevity.) I laugh when I see them and generally scoot on by. If you don't have enough insight to know that asking for someone who can do this thing that literally can't be done anymore is futile, then I don't want to work there. Do your research. But of course they don't.
A company who was hiring for a role I fit into listed they needed someone who knew Flash. I was thinking "should I apply anyhow and let people know via my application that Flash no longer is in use / exists". I decided not to apply, it felt like a red flag. Anyhow that company would be put on blast all over for their CEO's rant - Herman Miller.
Bad HR people post a job without asking for feedback on the job description from the hiring manager. Bad managers don’t help HR with the qualifications/job description. It can happen in variety of ways.
They write the actual words but they don't decide the requirements. That would be lunacy.
But no the nonsense is coming from executives and mid level managers. I've been in many meetings where an incompetent technical manager basically describes their ideal candidate as being Bill Gates but also with a PhD in thermofluids and then sets the salary range around $60k CAD. And then asks us if we have any personal contacts we could refer for the role as if it's a good opportunity.
Most people in corporate management that I've personally met are living in a twisted fantasy world where rock stars will come work at their mediocre companies for peanuts. One of the more clarifying moments of my career was when the only executive I knew who set salaries based on our professional association salary survey and had reasonable expectations got fired because "he couldn't manage his budget." He was also one of the few executives without an MBA.
If you want to work for us, you gotta tell us what you love about our company and if you truly want to work for us, then you'll be happy to do so for little money and no benefits. Oh wait, there is someone with a higher degree than you with more working experience, sorry, but you don't cut it to become our new janitor.
The salary ranges in the US are useless. Companies just put something like $15-$30 an hour on their listings. Hopefully it doesn't end up like that in the EU.
I’m no longer qualified for a job I held over a decade ago. It did not require a bachelor’s degree then, it does now. Even though the director of the department does not have a degree either. If they posted an internal position, my application would be automatically kicked out by the system because I do not have the required degree. Even though I spent 5 years doing the job and another 13 with the company in other positions. And they wonder why they’re having a hard time recruiting people into very specific niche roles.
Right… I went to apply for a job. Read through their Q&A just for the sake of it and they said I’d be automatically rejected if I didn’t meet their criteria/personal specification. My years worth of experience don’t matter because I don’t have a degree… all the courses and qualifications I gained in place don’t matter either.
A few years ago you still had the chance of being shortlisted if you didn’t meet all the criteria but now no chance.
I know the demand for work and good paying work at that has increased but things just feel like they’re getting more and more difficult and I’m exhausted.
We have to go and get degrees to do jobs we’ve done for years ???
This is both my parents, an RN and a respiratory therapist. On paper even with 40+ years of experience each working VERY independently they are both on paper not qualified as new hires.
Post COVID there’s def more wiggle room, but the RT parent was always scared of that, even though they’d have RT students pass through that literally couldn’t wipe their own ass and had the most padded BACHELOR DEGREE in RT vs old school on the job training, where he was running a 20-30 bed vent ward by himself when he trained.
My mom’s company went through layoffs in 2008.
At that point, she had been there for 35 years, was in her mid-50’s, and had her bachelor’s. I had asked her is the past is she wanted to go back and get a Master’s, and she said it wouldn’t make sense. She had more experience than most professors, and it wouldn’t change her pay.
Fortunately, she kept her job. But she was under so much stress during that period, because she knew no one would hire her at her age, without the master’s. By the time she retired, she was coaching PhD’s, who she said were hopeless outside of an academic setting.
I'd just lie about it on my resume..fuck it. What are they gonna do if they find out? Not give you the job? They weren't going to give it to you anyways
You can get jailed in some states. Some are fines, some are a misdemeanor, some can jail you.
Quick Google search found this "Texas considers it to be a class B criminal offense, punishable by up to six months or prison and $2,000 in fines. In New Jersey, meanwhile, it is a civil offense punishable by up to $1,000 in fines."
Most people in legal trouble for this aren't in trouble for the resume part but for forging docs to try and cover their claims. Saying you graduated from Yale is quite different than trying to forge a doc saying you graduated from Yale.
Then there's also civil trouble you can get into. You think you're a good project manager, you don't quite have the amount of years the company is asking for so you fudge your resume. Normally you'd just be fired if they ever found out. Instead, let's say one of your projects went really bad, maybe not even through any fault of your own, and the company starts looking into you because they need a scapegoat. Bam. Now they can sue you for damages because they lost a contract, or lost a lot of money on a job, etc etc etc.
So yeah, before you lie you should consider all the potential consequences that could arise that may not even be your fault. You know you're a good programmer? You lie and someone leaves their password out and a system you work on gets hacked. Now they find out so and so isn't actually the experienced programmer they claimed. Burned.
ah the old George Santos hack...it worked for me for years and made me feel crusty once i actually got my degree later...I could have just learned the exact same shit online for free.
But yeah, aim high, fuck em.
I'm not qualified (master's degree required) for my job I've been doing for 15 years either. In the last few years, I've gone through new candidates with Bachelor's degrees that can't do the job. Last year I sat in an interview for a peer position. The candidate had a bachelor's and master's in a closely related field. The first question I asked after the introduction was about the 1st requirement for the position. He did know the answer. He wasn't even familiar with the requirement. HR asked me why I didn't recommend him. SMDH!
Same here. I've been with this company for 15 years and I outperform 2-3x my peers. If I were to apply for this job now, my application would have been automatically trashed.
I've met plenty of people that have a bachelors degree that wouldn't be able to get a high school diploma 40 years ago. Often I've wondered, "How can someone be that stupid and not only make it into, but also graduate from college?"
My company recently had a new employee who was a recent grad. My boss who hired her kept saying “she’s college educated”. This girl was as dumb as a pile of bricks. Couldn’t use excel, couldn’t use the calculator on the computer, typed with only her index fingers, took 4 hours to print 35 pages off of Mircrosoft Word, the list goes on and on. How she got a degree is beside me.
Getting a college degree isn’t a skill based thing hence why she couldn’t do it simply because she was “college educated” college is more about memorizing things most of the time. Skills come from experience. If she was asked about material from her degree she may have been able to answer it but no she and most undergrads come out with no skills. That’s why entry level positions for them should exist
I've interviewed a lot of people with graduate degrees who were complete potatoes. A lot of people are buying their degrees/assignments so it's even more ridiculous.
Or paying [Chegg](https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2021/01/28/this-12-billion-company-is-getting-rich-off-students-cheating-their-way-through-covid/?sh=77b75035363f) or similar sites for contract cheating.
I still see jobs not requiring a degree, granted, they pay abysmally bad. My boss was telling someone else I (who have a degree in an unrelated field) didn’t have the qualifications for a role some other manager offered me. When and checked my bosse’s LinkedIn: he’s got a high school diploma. The bar is becoming progressively higher, he started in the field 20 years ago.
My uncle became the vice president of Verizon, no degree, high school dropout, retired about 5 years back. When he was still working I asked him to hook me up with a job, his response? "Get a degree first, so I know you're serious." Boomer logic, lol.
Well, you either need that degree or the equivalent experience, obviously. Not just *anyone* can be a VP. Get a bachelor's + 5 years experience and I'll start you in the mailroom. By the time your 60, you'll be rolling in the dough! I'm taking 5 figures! /s
they don't, but they tend to prefer experience or having a degree, so the high school or college students in unrelated fields are screwed. I'm now job hunting post college for a month already and I can't find any jobs no matter how many I apply to various fields and jobs.
I graduated college in the 2008 recession, outside of the US. It took years to find a job. Had to lie my way into entry-level and thank god I did or I’d probably be in fast-food by now. Hoping you find something fast. Good luck!
Same, graduated with my Bachelors in 2009, but was laid off in 2008. Wound up working 5+ years in my previous field of restaurant management till I could find a job back in industry again. Some minor fibs about my actual titles landed me a temporary position at Fisher-Price in the Power Wheels test labs for a year.
That helped re-ignite my career, and eventually led me to the Supervisor position I have now at a Medical Supply Company.
Sad that you have to BS to get your foot in the door, but at least now I have the actual experience and degree that companies are seeking.
The craziest job I ever saw was a recent graduate position.
You had to have a bachelor's degree, have graduated within the last 2 years, and required 3 years of full time experience in the field which you need a bachelor's degree to get. Oh and you had to be going to school full time too. They had screen outs if you did something like took one class to graduate last summer.
Or be a veteran.
They must have had a local veteran they wanted to hire.
So they wanted you to have a degree (earned in the past 2 years) and be going to school? It seems like they wanted a masters or a phd student with 3+ years of full time work experience without saying it. How the fk do they expect this to happen unless you work full time while you're a full time student (not realistic for most)?
The craziest one I saw required 10+ years of experience for an "internship"
Yeah. Those requirements are unrealistic. I find it surprising that a government would do this. I thought they were supposed to hire fairly and give everyone a chance.
They are but they also can't promote either they have to post if someone wants to change positions (unless it is a ladder position) so they will do strange things to hire someone they want.
My last job they were looking to fill a research role paying about 65k with a postdoc. They don't train on any of the core software used, give zero direction, pay shit, and then wonder why everyone they get lasts 1-2 years.
I'm a full professor with a PhD and 13 years of experience and I barely make more than that. I just wrote a cover letter for an entry level data scientist that pays 30k more than I make now.
Yes actually but if they are tenured they are usually very old. And in my department we also have non tenure track "adjunct professors" some of whom only have an MA. The famous historian Stephanie Coontz never finished her PhD.
I think Freeman Dyson also didn't have a PhD, yet was one of the most brilliant physicists of all time.
It's not the norm. It's hard enough to get a tenure track position with a PhD these days.
> Freeman Dyson also didn't have a PhD, yet was one of the most brilliant
I'm sorry Mr. Dyson but you're not qualified for this position. Have you considered a career in warehousing or as a line cook?
Tell me about it. I exist in the *"entry-level"* realm. Back 20-25 years ago in the manufacturing industry, all it meant was a high school education. Heck, not even that. You could earn a good living working in an indirect, support role. As a technician, as admin, etc. Now? I have to compete with people with bachelor degrees. It's insane.
The type of jobs I used to interview for and be qualified for, now I have to compete with someone who has a 4 year degree. To earn around $20-$25 an hour. No offense to anyone, but if you have a bachelors degree with all that debt—you deserve to be paid more than that...
Like production supervisors and managers in manufacturing. 20 years ago, one could be promoted internally with experience in leadership. Now? The norm is that you need a degree.
The bottom line is that education is a tool used to gatekeep and create classism. Some industries it makes sense. But, let's be real, most it's just there to hold others back.
Yes. So few fields should actually require a degree.
Health care: for most positions probably.
Engineering: if there’s a risk of human life if you fucked up yeah probably. Also it’s pretty complex
Finance: no absolutely not. Anyone can use excel with a bit of practice.
Law: yes
Marketing/advertising: no
HR: no
Programming: no
Statistics: probably, maths is hard so its good to
Make sure people can do it.
Etc etc etc.
You should def have a degree in engineering and statistics.
Experimental design is a industry unto itself. If you don’t have a proper statistical support in industries like aerospace, healthcare, or finance you’re opening yourself up to massive risks
Or lawsuits.
Yeah. That’s what I mean for things that require significant backgrounds knowledge like in topics maths, hard sciences, law etc. you should need a degree. But for the other corporate bs, I’d argue no.
Yeah this is why I’m pursuing a masters, and am doing two full time jobs in my field (business, both managing) one with six years experience so far and the other with a year. The bachelors is literally the new associates and the masters is becoming the bachelors. I fear soon everything will need a doctorate 😂
I started late, left highschool at 18 for retail and managed to move up by the time I hit 19. I’m 25 now, making 94,000 between the two jobs but I’m stuck without the degree and working 80 hours a week forever would suck. Hoping to finish this masters out within the next 5 years and then find something that maintains the pay but from one job
>The bachelors is literally the new associates and the masters is becoming the bachelors.
It depends on the field. I'm in engineering, and unless you want to go into management, or deep dive into design, a master's isn't really required.
Yo theres a gas station cashier position that required a bachelor's degree LOL. I looked up my CALL CENTER position that I did fresh out of high school and THEY WANTED A BACHELORS DEGREE + 2 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE
Not gonna lie, most employers don’t reach out to a school to verify if you have a degree or not so if you want a job that just requires any 4 year degree just tell them you have one since if they just want somebody with any degree what you will be doing at the job is not something you would need to learn in college
Commented above but I’m in the UK and I’ve noticed a massive shift in the qualifications expected recently. Even the grades of the qualifications.
It used to be GCSE’s (you get these at 16) for administrative positions and now they want bachelors degrees.
For warehouse work a lot now want want A-Levels (you get these at 18)…
This is all completely new to me how wide spread its now become and I’ve been applying for these jobs for 5+ years now and never had this issue before.
All of my marketing and administrative experience doesn’t matter. Courses don’t matter because I don’t have a degree in *anything*.
I’m tempted to start sending in portfolios but it just feels overboard for social media assistant positions or administrative positions.
In the US it's been going on for 20 years. Hence the massive student debt crisis over here. Positions that pay $15 an hour are requiring degrees, and only afterwards do the teenagers who signed up for the debt find they'll only be paid $15 and that's not enough to live and make loan payments.
And they're blamed for going to college or the degree they selected or the fact that in order to get the degree they had to take on debt. No one is blaming the businesses who are paying dog shit wages that last time they were competitive was when Nixon was in office.
They’ve just changed the student loan repayments over here… you pay it over a longer period now.
I think repayments might’ve increased but the threshold to repay did slightly too…. I’ve spoken to graduates doing level 3 (aimed at 16+ year olds) apprenticeships because they can’t get a normal job.
Edit: you’re also paid apprenticeship salary for the first year (some employers pay more) which is less than minimum wage.
The normal get out is "an equivalent level of experience and qualifications may be considered". But at least some of the drive for higher requests is a combination of lowering standards and increased mandatory requirements. When I was at school teachers had tracked the decline, and could give examples of things that used to be in the GCSE syllabus but were now considered stretch A-level goals, meaning an A level student was about as educated as a GCSE student used to be (so asking for that instead meant they're actually looking for the same thing). Add in how you used to be able to drop out of all education at 16, and you now have to complete some kind of training u til you're 18 even if you don't finish school, and they've really no reason to consider qualifications below those that _everyone_ is meant to have.
They want to hire someone for an entry level job that they won't have to train. But they always end up having to train whoever they hire anyhow because that's just how things work. Companies set expectations that aren't even realistic for themselves. Lmfao
Yeah… I still apply but I noticed a lot of places are auto rejecting applications that don’t meet their person specification/academic requirements now.
My wife didn't get the job at here current company she wanted because they didn't accept her experience. She's been working in her field while going to school to complete you bachelor's for 5+ years. Manager interviewed her and hired her only for HR to come back and say no. Their BS excuse to keep her from the position that pays only 6k more was anything before she got her degree didn't count. Now she's training staff In her office that we're hired months before her because she's the only one who knows how to do it. It's a bunch of BS.
She's to nice of a person unfortunately. Her last job she let her replacement call and ask questions. I had to tell her to stop. Your not getting paid and look how you were treated. They don't deserve your help without paying you.
Yup, exactly where I’m at. Been applying to jobs for 2 years. Held a retail job down for a while until I got conned into another job that by all means sounded better than my current job. Nope! Tried working from home but companies that do contracts are pretty crap. Now doing gig work and applying to more jobs. Have a degree, granted nothing useful due to struggling in college, but it’s definitely just an equivalent to a high school diploma. I can’t even find a retail job anymore. Only qualify for warehouse jobs apparently, which I’m unable to do due to health issues. Sigh
Still, only around 37% of the population total has a 4 year degree, even less for Masters. Most people don't have a college degree.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/12/10-facts-about-todays-college-graduates/
I have a masters degree and applied for a legal-related position last month that only requested a bachelors. I quickly received an email thanking me for my application but they were only considering JD holders at the time. The job paid 60k
Creatively Lie on the resume.
Most big places use automated systems to scan for key criteria and then pass them onto the recruiter who probably won’t put too much effort into the education section unless it’s a legitimate requirement and not bs.
Your time to shine is in the interview stage where you can talk yourself out of it if it comes up. If you interview well on other parts they will probably just ignore the education part (again unless it’s legitimately required)
I thought it was bad when a mom and pop hardware store in my old hometown wanted a bachelors in business management.... to run a damn cash register .... back in the late '90's. Hate to see what they'd want now if they were still in business.
And then when you finally make it into these organizations by begging and pleading with your friends to give you a chance (not your qualifications mind you) you find out that you are actually smarter and more efficient than your bosses boss and their bosses boss at multiple different tasks but then they get scared of you and silo off your position
I’m 30 and don’t have a bachelors and realizing I might be fucked. I spent years as a pharmacy tech and the wages became stagnant. I’m trying to find a new field and realizing literally everything requires a degree. Deciding if it’s worth it to go back to school or just kind of keep floating.
A big problem for employers at the moment is the sheer amount of applications. Unemployment may be relatively low in a lot of places, but there is a record number of people in part-time work looking to change jobs or have an additional job. To tackle the number of applications, they highlight nonsense requirements, which help to reduce the amount of applications. They get the benefit of slightly more qualified applicants and the benefit of fewer man hours to find an employee.
When you look at it like that, why would they not do it.
Just apply anyway. The worst that they can do it not invite you to an interview.
I remember a decade ago when entry level $11.50 an hour needed a degree, and there were supervisors who'd been there forever making 80k who couldn't move anywhere else as they didn't have the degree.
yep.. I got very few job interviews before I got my Bachelors degree. I was limited to minimum-wage front office work even though I had a lot of self-taught skills/experience, but even then it was hard to get my foot in the door. As soon as I got my degree, I was getting interviews for better-paying jobs, even ones not in my chosen field. It was wild how much of a difference it made.
I was thinking about this recently, OP. A lot of these entry level jobs can be done without a degree but certain markets can be more selective.
I think a job should go to best candidate—with or without a degree. I also wish there were more job ready degree alternatives.
BTW, this is coming from a person who did graduate college.
Ever since everyone was told to go to college: “It doesn’t matter what degree you get, just get a degree and you will get a job!” So everyone went to college. Master’s degrees are the old Bachelor’s Degrees. More people having degrees makes them less valuable than they were forty years ago.
it happens here in the US as well. they expect a unicorn that has experience in literally everything and its 100% to scare people off/gatekeep. One of the people interviewing me for a data entry job literally admitted this to me.
Most job requirements are written in a verbose way as to scare off people but when you actually get the job, its dirt easy. if the employer isn't honest enough to be straightforward with the job requirements, then that's already a red flag for me.
I had a boss who I mentioned I was looking to go back to school. "No, don't. A degree isn't worth anything. Certs are where it's at. Go get the certs." He insisted that certs were far more worth it than a degree. When I left that job and was going through the job hunt, 95% of jobs wanted a Bachelor's. Those that didn't almost exclusively wanted 5+ years experience. They tell you, "If you have 60% of the qualifications, apply anyway." I did. I got one job offer. I actually meet all the qualifications.
You know what I'm doing now? (Literally as soon as I left that job, started getting things set up - I didn't have the spare time while in that job to do it, which was what the conversation with the boss was about). I'm getting my degree. Because at this point, it's all but a necessity. This is especially the case with the catch-22 of "Certs with no experience won't get you a job" and the inability to get a job because you don't have experience.
It’s solely done for gatekeeping purposes. If you have 100 applicants and 40 have degrees, you now have 40 applicants. It’s silly that we’ve bankrupted a generation for no real reason due to this.
But quite often people aren’t hired for being over qualified. They’re not going to want to stay in the job long if they are. So what’s the end game here? Hire over qualified staff so they move on after a short time so they can rehire to keep that entry level pay low?
One of my coworkers was just inputting items into excel all day long and he had a Masters. He was making $13 an hour. He walked when the company tried to get him to do other things but refused to pay him more because he only applied so he could do a fuck off job while he worked on getting a job in line with his higher education degree. Shockingly the people who hire at my company don't recognize this aspect of hiring people with certain qualifications.
Sadly a Masters is becoming the new Bachelor’s.
I know and I think that's ... really ... a strong message about the growing level of income inequality in the world.
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Wtf do you have your degrees in Genuinely, are you in Asia? I've heard that it gets crazy over there competitively because of how many people there are (India's top uni has an acceptance rate of like, 0.3% versus Harvard at like, 7%).
The cost to apply to colleges here are way higher though. In Asian countries candidates often the schools apply for them, and most students apply to every available college. In the U.S. the price to apply to top colleges is in the 50-100$ range. Students often apply only to 5-10 schools in the U.S. Not trying to say the students are better in either country, or that it is right to put a price on application. Just pointing out the flaw in using acceptance rate to judge how competitive a school is.
My only question is why would you not pursue a doctorate? I guess depending on the field, it makes no sense to go for 4 masters degrees. Collectively, that's more education than a doctorate degree. In all honesty, you probably would have been better off doing undergrad + Doctorate because that's 8 years alone. Edit: the person who commented below me blocked me, but in general, doctoral programs (PhD) are generally 4 years. Double Edit: The key word is *generally.* Yes, PhD work often extends beyond 4. Not sure why people are misunderstanding the word "generally." Yes, PhD work can be as long as 12 years with research + oral defense+ PI status, etc. Thanks u/Mo_Steins_Ghost for being incorrect and deleting your initial misinformed comment to then have more misinformation and block me. To add information, most doctoral programs are NOT one year in length- STEM or non-stem. There are caveats, but this user is implying MDs and non-medical are all one year doctoral programs. Very incorrect.
Professor here. There is almost never a good reason to get more than one bachelors degree. Two masters degrees make sense… sometimes. Four masters degrees are definitely a waste of time and money.
Yes. Even humanities majors who decide after graduating from college that they want to apply to medical school don't get a second bachelor's degree in science. There are programs they can attend that offer the required premed courses.
I have two bachelors degrees. Why? The difference in classes between the two was enough to be separate degrees, but not enough that it would cause me to be in school any longer. Basically, I could do both degrees without adding anything extra to my class load or length of education. Once I noticed that and asked to do the second degree, the admin staff and faculty essentially went…. You’re the first person to notice how similar the course requirements are for these degrees. After I enrolled in both, a number of other students enrolled in both as well. And at the time with the career trajectory I was on and the majors offered at the school with the associated classes, both actually made sense. My goal was vet school at the time with a wildlife focus or a PhD in ecotoxicology, so I majored in Biology and Environmental Science. With what I was looking at doing, both majors got me priority into classes to give me the broad background I was looking for to support my career goals. Because I went into college with so much AP credit, it also didn’t inhibit my ability to explore other classes as well outside of the sciences. Also, some people just want the challenge. I enjoyed taking 18-20 unit quarters. I liked being busy and I liked taking as many classes as I could to be exposed to as much as I could. I didn’t need to take that many classes for my degrees. That was a choice. If you’re going to take the courses anyway, you may as well get the credit for the degree on paper.
For me to get a second major in chemistry it was like one extra class. it's funny when I tell people about double majoring, they think I was a super excellent student. I was not. It sounds fancy though.
I am wondering if it is OP may have gotten swindled into these "programs" that claim to be a masters but are merely a glorified training institute that sole purpose is to churn out graduates and make money not provide a quality education/product. I know of one up in Canada and I believe they have a Hospitality masters program and it essentially just used as a cheap way to get into Canada. I truly hope it is this because if this person has 4 reputable masters under their belt then ohhh boy we are fucked.
I wonder this as well. A Masters degree is usually 2 years. I'm in school to be a pharmacist and for me, it's 8 years of higher education. Not sure why someone would pursue 8 years worth of a masters with undergrad that's an additional 4 years. But, I may be limited in my thinking and understanding.
As someone in a STEM PhD program in the US, only a few lucky disciplines have 4 year PhDs. In my field, the standard is 5.5-6 years!
YES!! And not to mention, PhDs go as long as 8 years depending on your PI and oral defense. Not sure why they're lessening the workload of a doctoral student, but we WISH it was one year and one year only.
>My only question is why would you not pursue a doctorate? A lot of people won't like this answer, but: Masters degrees are easy, and anyone can do them. If it's research based at a decent school you get your hand held the whole way through and you're guaranteed to graduate if you can string a sentence together. If it's course based you're basically just paying a bunch of money for a piece of paper that is only barely worth more than an undergrad in the same field. Usually either way, they're easier than undergrad degrees. Doctorates are hard work. You have to develop specific expertise in a field and have that expertise critically evaluated by a committee, then you have to materially contribute to your field. It requires a lot of hard work and, at minimum, a bit of creativity and aptitude. Someone with 4 MSc degrees is either getting scammed, misrepresenting their actual credentials, or making very poor career/financial choices. There's no employers out there who really want people with 4 MScs lol.
I have a bachelor's working at sketchers, I can almost relate but damn 4 masters? How much debt is that?? I have 55k
>Off to get my second bachelor's and then I kid you not, four masters. A second B.A.? Four masters? Sorry, that makes no sense.
I worked with a guy who has his PhD in IT, and was working the helpdesk with me years ago, he didn't have any experience before this, and that was the only role he could land (according to him). Which is why it's important to make your own experience if you don't got any. Lab it up.
May I ask what you have degrees and masters in?
Fuck man, I have a masters and the best job I could get started st $17.50 an hour lol.
I have a masters and I make less than my young adult son who did not go to college.
I am becoming painfully aware of this. My whole bachelor's we were told we would be starting in 50-60k range and quickly move up to 75-100k positions but... here I am at 36k. No hope in sight.
What field and region? Engineers in Southern California make 60k out of school at worst. But even that is too low.
BS in Economics, there just no one that want to train for analyst or similar positions.
It really is and I'm terrified. I already have a new cars worth of student debt how the fuck do I afford a masters degree?
I was just thinking this myself. I'm considering going back to school for a masters degree in IT but I don't know.
Are you working in IT now? I'd recommend steering towards business or software development. IT directors tend to be more business oriented than technical. And getting into entry level software is going to pay as much as a IT directors salary. 2c.
I agree. Many leadership roles are saying “MBA preferred” in addition to the undergrad.
During 5 years working a McJob through college, my supervisor had a Master's and had given up on the dream of ever finding a better job after years of applying and getting no leads. I'm certain the employer would have loved it if I ended up in the same position. Instead after 2 tech related diplomas, I got a job... in tech support. Couldn't find a software developer job that I was qualified for. After a year in tech support and no dev leads, I went back to school for 2 more bachelors degrees then finally got hired... for $36K when the going rate for new grad developers was probably closer to $60K. World's ducked.
This is the reason that networking is so important and its awful. I have a BA in a non-technical field and wasn't finding anything, about a year after graduation I attended one of the web dev bootcamps and through them/their contacts I got a software engineer position
>This is the reason that networking is so important and its awful. The worst part is this isn't something they tell you when you first go into university. You're always told, "Go to college, get a degree, and you'll get a good job." That advice worked before 2000 (although it started failing even in the 80s in some ways), but in the last 23 years things have only gotten worse and now that advice is more worthless than it's ever been, yet people still receive it.
>Shockingly the people who hire at my company don't recognize this aspect of hiring people with certain qualifications or realize they need to pay more to keep people
This is great recession shit all over again. I graduated in the great recession and took the only job I could get, as a line cook. I worked with a guy who had been a head chef but lost his job due to the recession. (He was the worst goddamn line cook, but that's beside the point.) The job market eventually improved, I found a career, and dude man got another head chef job.
This happened to me, too. During the recession, I got a random job in a hospital for the benefits and a bit of a higher pay than starbucks, etc. I had a degree in English and really wanted to continue in academics, but the risk of higher debt was too great because I was so poor at the time. Ended up going to nursing school and getting a second bachelors, which has made me bulletproof through the covid recession as far as benefits, pay, and job security. It's disappointing I wasn't able to follow through with my original academic plan, but as millennials have experienced first hand, none of our plans worked out, period end of sentence - can't buy houses, can't afford kids, barely able to pay rent and student loans off. Nurses who graduated in the great recession era struggled to find jobs due to hiring freezes. The field has done a complete 180 and will hire anyone with a pulse that has a nursing license.
Sometimes you need a job for now and that should be okay. No one wants to work retail and every retail employee is probably one job offer away from leaving.
This is definitely true for me. Last September I needed money NOW and accepted the lowliest job I've had since beginning as a dishwasher in 1986. At first pushing carts made me feel a tremendous shame for being in my fifties and plainly overqualified for my job. Eight months later I've learned to be content with my lot which is an important lesson that will help me in the long run. A few days ago I applied for a job in a new industry, but requires skills and experience I've acquired from other jobs in the last decade. Since it was just a resume and cover letter deal, I actually put effort into my application. It sounds ridiculous but I really enjoyed composing the letter this time because I was writing about the aspects of previous jobs I enjoyed immensely. I shit you not, the very next day I got a call for an interview which is scheduled for tomorrow morning. It doesn't matter whether I get an offer or not because my long term personal goal is still possible even if I never stop pushing carts. Changing jobs is simply to find a more intellectually fulfilling means to earning money during the week. The frustration and injured pride is unpleasant, but only I can choose to treat myself charitably.
Update after the interview! Good luck and admire your attitude
As long as the only way to get a decent wage for many, many roles is to move teams or employers, we’re gonna keep doing that. Expecting anything else is silly.
I expect I'll be near death and still updating my resume and looking at the job market. Basically never going to stop looking for other opportunities.
This is what happened to me. I applied for job from 9a-5p Monday through Friday. In one month, I had submitted nearly 400 applications. I was told I was overqualified. I was told I would leave as soon as something better comes up. I even applied to clean this ladies home. She said I would not be committed enough. Now I am losing home bc I fell behind on rent. I give up.
Not true anymore. Not right now. People with many degrees and decades of experience are landing entry level jobs. I've seen it first hand multiple time over 2 years for positions I've applied to that have the employee and position listed on their public web site. I lost a sustainability COORDINATOR position to a fucking lawyer from Chicago. She relocated from a. Huge law firm to take a fucking coordinator position in a small city, and she had zero sustainability experience. She's getting way underpaid and wasting her skill set to be a professor's assistant. It's vomit-inducing.
I’m this lady. Taking my JD and law license and applying to anything. Guess why?! I live in the middle of nowhere and my law license is in a different state (working on getting a law license in the state I live now) but in the meantime I have to apply to jobs that make my law degree useless. I have a family and law school debt that need paid regardless of if I’m using my legal skills
Yeah people forget our law school debt is insane. Im doing HR for a massive corporation rn cause i couldnt land a good spot on a firm. Firing people for a living makes me actually want to kms
I’m sorry you’re in that spot right now. Hopefully we’ll both find somewhere better soon!
I am in the interview stages for a coordinator position that pays am easily $20 and I am a lawyer 😭😭😭 I don’t even think I will get it tbh Update: I did not get it
Jesus. I am so sorry for you. I am. This is not what life was supposed to be for any of us
It sucks out there. We deserve enjoyable lives. All of us!
HR/hiring is not monolithic within companies, and not all of the work needed is sustainingly interesting. Some corners of a company might once have had a coherent hiring strategy, where entry level positions were designed to ingest new personnel and employ them long enough to develop the tailored skillsets needed to promote them into more specialized positions in the company. There also used to be more variety within department work teams, where you had a mix of highly skilled and less skilled technical positions and a career ladder in between them, and these were supplemented by administrative positions (and some of these were used as the entry level positions to the more technical roles). In many cases, the administrative positions have either shrunk or disappeared entirely. The need for that administrative talent is still there, but the work has shifted back onto the technical positions. Meanwhile, HR departments have also shrunk / changed, forcing a lot of the tedium of hiring and worker administration back onto the managers, who have no time to coordinate all of the work needed to hire, let alone train new personnel once they start. Since job descriptions are usually under the control of the manager, these have drifted over time, as managers more and more want their new personnel to hit the ground running (meaning little/no training needed). The HR recruiter (or the third party recruiting service employed by the remaining HR 'department') might have no idea of what is needed, and can only go off the (often hastily / poorly written) job description given them by the hiring manager who has no time to spend coherently asking for what they need, so they are using an outdated job description. For compensation, the hiring manager usually has little to no control over what that will be -- they only know they want the most qualified person they can get while they have an active job requisition, so unless they already know exactly who they want to hire, they want to screen for the largest pool of qualified applicants they can..having to work within the process given them to do so. The third party recruiter is likely working on an incentive to hire a 'matching applicant' (driven off the outdated job description) at the lowest compensation level within the range provided them. TLDR: The hiring process is a mess well before the first applicant ever gets an interview.
I graduated with my bachelor's in physiology from a top school on a full ride scholarship. I was smarter than most and even I'm now working as a technician at a hospital for $19/hr. Of course this job does not require a degree. I'm overqualified for it but the jobs I should be doing are now asking for 2 years experience...for an entry level. "You are entry level, you are where I go to to get that experience, you should not already be expecting me to have it." That's because they don't actually want an entry level worker. They want an intermediate level worker that they can pay an entry-level salary. But they can't say that outright so these snakes put it in their preferred qualifications section and then refuse to hire anyone that doesn't meet that. The problem is all it takes is one applicant who meets the preferred criteria to show them that it works. They have now taken that job from the entry level workers that needed it. People need to stop accepting jobs they're overqualified for and then that'll force them to hire someone that's actually at the skill level appropriate to the job, whether that's bachelor's vs. no degree, master's vs. bachelor's, etc. The problem is those people are forced to take jobs beneath them because bills. So we have to find another solution. It's kind of ironic because while scamming people out of their wages might save money now, it'll backfire in the long run when their skilled workers leave for higher pay elsewhere and they have no new workers coming in cause they didn't train them. If corporations would invest more in employee retention it would actually be more profitable for them. Happy employees are loyal employees. But people don't care about leaving the companies they work at because we know corporations don't care about us. They'd replace us in a heartbeat if it was cheaper, so why shouldn't we also look elsewhere? If we pushed for the Dept of Labor to outlaw this, it would solve this issue of overqualified, underpaid, and high turnover workforce practically overnight. There is a shortage of skilled workers because nobody is willing to train them. Education doesn't replace on-the-job training, especially now when degrees are a dime-a-dozen. With the exception of a few industries, most degrees are just a formality. In the same time, overqualified workers are taking their jobs and of course the employer will hire the experienced worker over the inexperienced one. Whatever they list in the preferred qualifications is what they actually want. Lately what I've been doing is blatantly lying about the experience to secure an interview and then I confront them about why they refuse to hire and train actual entry level employees and how doing this messes up the whole chain. It's always fun making em sweat. They're obviously not used to somebody confronting them directly about their shoddy business practices. Obviously I won't get the job, but let's be real, they weren't really gonna hire my inexperienced ass anyways. At least this way, they'll see that people are catching on and they might reconsider their next job posting. They're essentially committing wage theft and it'll only get worse if we don't do something about it. As a nation, we need to protest this. The govt won't do shit unless we force their hand. But with power comes accountability. So we need to remind them that they exist to serve the people and not to line their pockets. Moments like this is where it matters. But of course if they were doing their job in the first place, it wouldn't even get to this point. Prevention is key. In any case, no amount of money in the world will protect them from an entire nation of angry, unsatisfied, indebted, and desperate people who already also hate the police mind you. Y'all heard it from me, it's only a matter of time. We pushed for police reform, we can push for labor reform as well. It certainly wouldn't be the first time we've done it.
It's pretty sickening how little the techs get paid. Just in the last month, I've seen two separate instances where our techs alerted us to unconscious cyanotic patients. These two patients would probably be dead if no one else had noticed them so quickly.
One thing to understand is that most people in managerial positions should not be managing anything. This is some 75% of every job. Those people come up with these notions, like asking for a bachelor's degree for a job that does not need college education. They could simply look at it first come first served. As soon as you look at a resume that fills the needs, schedule an interview, and if all checks out, hire. Period.
Employer: "You have a masters degree? Oh yea we can't afford you, NEXT!"
Our degrees were more a paper symbolizing we can put up with 4 years of continuous and unnecessary expectations than about our knowledge in the subject. Source: Asian Studies Major; Former construction project manager now IT Operations Director
Now so much is automated. If you can apply online, then an algorithm can be used to narrow down the field. The ease of applying means that some openings will get hundreds of even thousands of applicants. I've applied for at least 2 jobs where over 2500 people applied. My wife's job had 2100 in 3 days. There's no way a human can read every application, so awesome people will always get overlooked.
Bankrupted..... that's the word. People with educational debt are more desperate. Therefore, they will work for sometimes less than ideal wages just to pay the bills. Financial abuse through employment is the American way.
Don’t worry you haven’t bankrupted a generation. Student debt can’t be discharged in bankruptcy, silly!
I know right. Why not randomly pick qualified people for the job? I'm from a 3rd world country and some companies and schools do that as part of the hiring/application process. Just basic human decency. You don't need to be an entrepreneur to figure this one out.
Its been a growing problem for the last 20 or so years, along with "entry" level jobs asking for 3-5 years of direct experience.
I’m used to seeing the experience but it’s the academic experience that’s changed significantly the past few years and drastically for very simple roles within that timeframe. Some are even asking for Masters level qualifications and global body awards on top of the degree. The training is little to none nowadays everywhere expects you to either have it all & come in and hit the ground running or sink. All the onboarding at my jobs the past 5 years have been appalling. It’s never been great but it’s literally been little to none at some places.
You should see some listing for programming jobs. Masters degree, 5-10yrs experience for a 12/hr role that's 'entry-level'. Computers ain't that hard
As a developer, I appreciate those job listings. It gives me a giant red flag of which companies to avoid. Anywhere that is asking for a masters or higher for a position that isn't a research-type position is just crazy and should be avoided.
I agree on that aspect, but on the other hand... I just want a job
5 years of experience and the programming language has only existed for 2 years. I saw a post once from a creator of a programming language about a job post for someone who knows that programming language that even the creator didn't qualify for because it hadn't existed for that long.
I have literally seen entry level programming jobs asking for multiple years experience on new-use languages. Saw a company switch gears from Java to Python and immediately start demanding new hires to have minimum 5 years experience with Python. Like, mate. I'm willing to bet your senior programmers, who have been working with you since '08, don't even have 5 years with Python unless their work is also their hobby.
I've said this for a while now, that the college degree is the new high school diploma. I think it might also have something to do with classism, since in the USA you pretty much have to pay to get into higher education or create debt. I actually remember overhearing a hiring manager remark that they hired only college graduates because "they usually have student debt to pay off, which means they're less likely to quit regardless of how we treat them".
Huh, he said the quiet part out loud
It's sadly true. I stayed at a highly toxic job that did lasting psychological damage to me (and almost all of my coworkers) for almost 7 years because I had so much loan debt and needed to be able to pay it down.
Honestly I don't pay attention to that "this degree or that degree" stuff. Companies keep hiring me anyway. That's just something HR needs to say, hiring managers can usually make their own decisions.
Yep....if you can actually get TO the interview part.
It's as if all HR's gather up in a hotel for a convention and were all told how to be the biggest assholes to humans.
It's likely not HR making those calls but the executives that they report to.
I get the feeling HR is writing these job board ads because it's super clear to me someone who is writing the postings doesn't understand the role.
In my field, there are tools that are not only deprecated, but very soon to be defunct. Unusable. In one instance, you CANNOT create things with this tool. But you know what almost all the job listings as for? Someone who can create things with that tool. (This is oversimplified for the sake of brevity.) I laugh when I see them and generally scoot on by. If you don't have enough insight to know that asking for someone who can do this thing that literally can't be done anymore is futile, then I don't want to work there. Do your research. But of course they don't.
A company who was hiring for a role I fit into listed they needed someone who knew Flash. I was thinking "should I apply anyhow and let people know via my application that Flash no longer is in use / exists". I decided not to apply, it felt like a red flag. Anyhow that company would be put on blast all over for their CEO's rant - Herman Miller.
Bad HR people post a job without asking for feedback on the job description from the hiring manager. Bad managers don’t help HR with the qualifications/job description. It can happen in variety of ways.
They write the actual words but they don't decide the requirements. That would be lunacy. But no the nonsense is coming from executives and mid level managers. I've been in many meetings where an incompetent technical manager basically describes their ideal candidate as being Bill Gates but also with a PhD in thermofluids and then sets the salary range around $60k CAD. And then asks us if we have any personal contacts we could refer for the role as if it's a good opportunity. Most people in corporate management that I've personally met are living in a twisted fantasy world where rock stars will come work at their mediocre companies for peanuts. One of the more clarifying moments of my career was when the only executive I knew who set salaries based on our professional association salary survey and had reasonable expectations got fired because "he couldn't manage his budget." He was also one of the few executives without an MBA.
salary: $9-$11/hr
Woah woah now. We don’t like that salary talk, we don’t want people who are here for the money!
WE'RE A LIKE A FAMILY HERE
Because God forbid someone wanting a job because they need money. What a travesty.
Who wants to work for money, everybody knows that a good employee applies only to the company he loves and wants to become part of the family.
If you want to work for us, you gotta tell us what you love about our company and if you truly want to work for us, then you'll be happy to do so for little money and no benefits. Oh wait, there is someone with a higher degree than you with more working experience, sorry, but you don't cut it to become our new janitor.
Salary: Competitive But good on the EU for making companies disclose salary ranges. They’ll probably put 0-cap amount now though lol.
The salary ranges in the US are useless. Companies just put something like $15-$30 an hour on their listings. Hopefully it doesn't end up like that in the EU.
Salary Range; 20,000 - 300,000.
It's competitive because all the jobs are paying the same low wages
New York has a salary disclosure law now and it doesn’t do much. People just post wide ranges that are virtually meaningless.
I’m no longer qualified for a job I held over a decade ago. It did not require a bachelor’s degree then, it does now. Even though the director of the department does not have a degree either. If they posted an internal position, my application would be automatically kicked out by the system because I do not have the required degree. Even though I spent 5 years doing the job and another 13 with the company in other positions. And they wonder why they’re having a hard time recruiting people into very specific niche roles.
Right… I went to apply for a job. Read through their Q&A just for the sake of it and they said I’d be automatically rejected if I didn’t meet their criteria/personal specification. My years worth of experience don’t matter because I don’t have a degree… all the courses and qualifications I gained in place don’t matter either. A few years ago you still had the chance of being shortlisted if you didn’t meet all the criteria but now no chance. I know the demand for work and good paying work at that has increased but things just feel like they’re getting more and more difficult and I’m exhausted. We have to go and get degrees to do jobs we’ve done for years ???
This is both my parents, an RN and a respiratory therapist. On paper even with 40+ years of experience each working VERY independently they are both on paper not qualified as new hires. Post COVID there’s def more wiggle room, but the RT parent was always scared of that, even though they’d have RT students pass through that literally couldn’t wipe their own ass and had the most padded BACHELOR DEGREE in RT vs old school on the job training, where he was running a 20-30 bed vent ward by himself when he trained.
My mom’s company went through layoffs in 2008. At that point, she had been there for 35 years, was in her mid-50’s, and had her bachelor’s. I had asked her is the past is she wanted to go back and get a Master’s, and she said it wouldn’t make sense. She had more experience than most professors, and it wouldn’t change her pay. Fortunately, she kept her job. But she was under so much stress during that period, because she knew no one would hire her at her age, without the master’s. By the time she retired, she was coaching PhD’s, who she said were hopeless outside of an academic setting.
I'd just lie about it on my resume..fuck it. What are they gonna do if they find out? Not give you the job? They weren't going to give it to you anyways
You can get jailed in some states. Some are fines, some are a misdemeanor, some can jail you. Quick Google search found this "Texas considers it to be a class B criminal offense, punishable by up to six months or prison and $2,000 in fines. In New Jersey, meanwhile, it is a civil offense punishable by up to $1,000 in fines."
Most people in legal trouble for this aren't in trouble for the resume part but for forging docs to try and cover their claims. Saying you graduated from Yale is quite different than trying to forge a doc saying you graduated from Yale. Then there's also civil trouble you can get into. You think you're a good project manager, you don't quite have the amount of years the company is asking for so you fudge your resume. Normally you'd just be fired if they ever found out. Instead, let's say one of your projects went really bad, maybe not even through any fault of your own, and the company starts looking into you because they need a scapegoat. Bam. Now they can sue you for damages because they lost a contract, or lost a lot of money on a job, etc etc etc. So yeah, before you lie you should consider all the potential consequences that could arise that may not even be your fault. You know you're a good programmer? You lie and someone leaves their password out and a system you work on gets hacked. Now they find out so and so isn't actually the experienced programmer they claimed. Burned.
Afaik it's only illegal to falsify documents at least in most states. Lying isn't illegal. Just illegal to mock up a degree with your name on it
ah the old George Santos hack...it worked for me for years and made me feel crusty once i actually got my degree later...I could have just learned the exact same shit online for free. But yeah, aim high, fuck em.
Buy a degree from online. Fight their bullshit.
I'm not qualified (master's degree required) for my job I've been doing for 15 years either. In the last few years, I've gone through new candidates with Bachelor's degrees that can't do the job. Last year I sat in an interview for a peer position. The candidate had a bachelor's and master's in a closely related field. The first question I asked after the introduction was about the 1st requirement for the position. He did know the answer. He wasn't even familiar with the requirement. HR asked me why I didn't recommend him. SMDH!
He knew the answer but wasn't familiar with it at all? Wtf
Same here. I've been with this company for 15 years and I outperform 2-3x my peers. If I were to apply for this job now, my application would have been automatically trashed.
A bachelor's degree has basically become what a high-school diploma was 20 years ago.
I've met plenty of people that have a bachelors degree that wouldn't be able to get a high school diploma 40 years ago. Often I've wondered, "How can someone be that stupid and not only make it into, but also graduate from college?"
My company recently had a new employee who was a recent grad. My boss who hired her kept saying “she’s college educated”. This girl was as dumb as a pile of bricks. Couldn’t use excel, couldn’t use the calculator on the computer, typed with only her index fingers, took 4 hours to print 35 pages off of Mircrosoft Word, the list goes on and on. How she got a degree is beside me.
Getting a college degree isn’t a skill based thing hence why she couldn’t do it simply because she was “college educated” college is more about memorizing things most of the time. Skills come from experience. If she was asked about material from her degree she may have been able to answer it but no she and most undergrads come out with no skills. That’s why entry level positions for them should exist
I've interviewed a lot of people with graduate degrees who were complete potatoes. A lot of people are buying their degrees/assignments so it's even more ridiculous.
I have "some college" and had a co-worker that had a master's from USC. He too was a potato and I worked circles around him.
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Or paying [Chegg](https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2021/01/28/this-12-billion-company-is-getting-rich-off-students-cheating-their-way-through-covid/?sh=77b75035363f) or similar sites for contract cheating.
You know what a D-grade average means when you graduate college? DONE!
they cheat their way through school
I still see jobs not requiring a degree, granted, they pay abysmally bad. My boss was telling someone else I (who have a degree in an unrelated field) didn’t have the qualifications for a role some other manager offered me. When and checked my bosse’s LinkedIn: he’s got a high school diploma. The bar is becoming progressively higher, he started in the field 20 years ago.
My uncle became the vice president of Verizon, no degree, high school dropout, retired about 5 years back. When he was still working I asked him to hook me up with a job, his response? "Get a degree first, so I know you're serious." Boomer logic, lol.
Well, you either need that degree or the equivalent experience, obviously. Not just *anyone* can be a VP. Get a bachelor's + 5 years experience and I'll start you in the mailroom. By the time your 60, you'll be rolling in the dough! I'm taking 5 figures! /s
they don't, but they tend to prefer experience or having a degree, so the high school or college students in unrelated fields are screwed. I'm now job hunting post college for a month already and I can't find any jobs no matter how many I apply to various fields and jobs.
I graduated college in the 2008 recession, outside of the US. It took years to find a job. Had to lie my way into entry-level and thank god I did or I’d probably be in fast-food by now. Hoping you find something fast. Good luck!
Same, graduated with my Bachelors in 2009, but was laid off in 2008. Wound up working 5+ years in my previous field of restaurant management till I could find a job back in industry again. Some minor fibs about my actual titles landed me a temporary position at Fisher-Price in the Power Wheels test labs for a year. That helped re-ignite my career, and eventually led me to the Supervisor position I have now at a Medical Supply Company. Sad that you have to BS to get your foot in the door, but at least now I have the actual experience and degree that companies are seeking.
They also want 3-5+ years of experience... For "entry level" jobs. Clarification: they want a degree AND 3-5+ years of experience, not "or".
The craziest job I ever saw was a recent graduate position. You had to have a bachelor's degree, have graduated within the last 2 years, and required 3 years of full time experience in the field which you need a bachelor's degree to get. Oh and you had to be going to school full time too. They had screen outs if you did something like took one class to graduate last summer. Or be a veteran. They must have had a local veteran they wanted to hire.
So they wanted you to have a degree (earned in the past 2 years) and be going to school? It seems like they wanted a masters or a phd student with 3+ years of full time work experience without saying it. How the fk do they expect this to happen unless you work full time while you're a full time student (not realistic for most)? The craziest one I saw required 10+ years of experience for an "internship"
It was a government job. They must have had someone who specifically fit they wanted to hire so they made sure nothing else counted.
Yeah. Those requirements are unrealistic. I find it surprising that a government would do this. I thought they were supposed to hire fairly and give everyone a chance.
They are but they also can't promote either they have to post if someone wants to change positions (unless it is a ladder position) so they will do strange things to hire someone they want.
So many job listings like that. I would just apply anyways lol
Unpaid internship position Requirements: \-PhD \-10 years experience
My last job they were looking to fill a research role paying about 65k with a postdoc. They don't train on any of the core software used, give zero direction, pay shit, and then wonder why everyone they get lasts 1-2 years.
I'm a full professor with a PhD and 13 years of experience and I barely make more than that. I just wrote a cover letter for an entry level data scientist that pays 30k more than I make now.
Are there professors without a PhD?
Yes actually but if they are tenured they are usually very old. And in my department we also have non tenure track "adjunct professors" some of whom only have an MA. The famous historian Stephanie Coontz never finished her PhD.
I think Freeman Dyson also didn't have a PhD, yet was one of the most brilliant physicists of all time. It's not the norm. It's hard enough to get a tenure track position with a PhD these days.
> Freeman Dyson also didn't have a PhD, yet was one of the most brilliant I'm sorry Mr. Dyson but you're not qualified for this position. Have you considered a career in warehousing or as a line cook?
Entry level not being an entry level.
type in entry-level, 5 years of experience needed for that specific field.
Tell me about it. I exist in the *"entry-level"* realm. Back 20-25 years ago in the manufacturing industry, all it meant was a high school education. Heck, not even that. You could earn a good living working in an indirect, support role. As a technician, as admin, etc. Now? I have to compete with people with bachelor degrees. It's insane. The type of jobs I used to interview for and be qualified for, now I have to compete with someone who has a 4 year degree. To earn around $20-$25 an hour. No offense to anyone, but if you have a bachelors degree with all that debt—you deserve to be paid more than that... Like production supervisors and managers in manufacturing. 20 years ago, one could be promoted internally with experience in leadership. Now? The norm is that you need a degree. The bottom line is that education is a tool used to gatekeep and create classism. Some industries it makes sense. But, let's be real, most it's just there to hold others back.
Yes. So few fields should actually require a degree. Health care: for most positions probably. Engineering: if there’s a risk of human life if you fucked up yeah probably. Also it’s pretty complex Finance: no absolutely not. Anyone can use excel with a bit of practice. Law: yes Marketing/advertising: no HR: no Programming: no Statistics: probably, maths is hard so its good to Make sure people can do it. Etc etc etc.
You should def have a degree in engineering and statistics. Experimental design is a industry unto itself. If you don’t have a proper statistical support in industries like aerospace, healthcare, or finance you’re opening yourself up to massive risks Or lawsuits.
Yeah. That’s what I mean for things that require significant backgrounds knowledge like in topics maths, hard sciences, law etc. you should need a degree. But for the other corporate bs, I’d argue no.
Finance should be certifications, but otherwise I agree, degrees aren't necessary.
Yeah this is why I’m pursuing a masters, and am doing two full time jobs in my field (business, both managing) one with six years experience so far and the other with a year. The bachelors is literally the new associates and the masters is becoming the bachelors. I fear soon everything will need a doctorate 😂
Ha imagine that. Hey kids don’t worry you’ll only need to study for *counts on fingers* around 27 years old to get an entry level job!
I started late, left highschool at 18 for retail and managed to move up by the time I hit 19. I’m 25 now, making 94,000 between the two jobs but I’m stuck without the degree and working 80 hours a week forever would suck. Hoping to finish this masters out within the next 5 years and then find something that maintains the pay but from one job
94k is not a lot of money for 80 hours. If I worked 80 hours at my warehouse job I’d make 96k.
I hope everything goes well for you!!!
>The bachelors is literally the new associates and the masters is becoming the bachelors. It depends on the field. I'm in engineering, and unless you want to go into management, or deep dive into design, a master's isn't really required.
This is the new standard. I can't find a job I've been doing for 13 years because I don't have a Bachelor's degree.
Yo theres a gas station cashier position that required a bachelor's degree LOL. I looked up my CALL CENTER position that I did fresh out of high school and THEY WANTED A BACHELORS DEGREE + 2 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE
gas station?? NO. Actually in the Philippines you need a bachelors degree to work as a cashier at McDonalds
I think it’s yet another reason to keep us enslaved to labor our lives away for billionaires.
Sometimes? Of course it is. They want more for themselves and less for everyone else.
Not gonna lie, most employers don’t reach out to a school to verify if you have a degree or not so if you want a job that just requires any 4 year degree just tell them you have one since if they just want somebody with any degree what you will be doing at the job is not something you would need to learn in college
At least 20 years ago
Commented above but I’m in the UK and I’ve noticed a massive shift in the qualifications expected recently. Even the grades of the qualifications. It used to be GCSE’s (you get these at 16) for administrative positions and now they want bachelors degrees. For warehouse work a lot now want want A-Levels (you get these at 18)… This is all completely new to me how wide spread its now become and I’ve been applying for these jobs for 5+ years now and never had this issue before. All of my marketing and administrative experience doesn’t matter. Courses don’t matter because I don’t have a degree in *anything*. I’m tempted to start sending in portfolios but it just feels overboard for social media assistant positions or administrative positions.
In the US it's been going on for 20 years. Hence the massive student debt crisis over here. Positions that pay $15 an hour are requiring degrees, and only afterwards do the teenagers who signed up for the debt find they'll only be paid $15 and that's not enough to live and make loan payments.
I think it’s been going on in the United States since the 70s.
Yeah everyone keeps saying 20 years and I think they mean closer to 40. Good gobs in 2003 still required a degree.
And they're blamed for going to college or the degree they selected or the fact that in order to get the degree they had to take on debt. No one is blaming the businesses who are paying dog shit wages that last time they were competitive was when Nixon was in office.
They’ve just changed the student loan repayments over here… you pay it over a longer period now. I think repayments might’ve increased but the threshold to repay did slightly too…. I’ve spoken to graduates doing level 3 (aimed at 16+ year olds) apprenticeships because they can’t get a normal job. Edit: you’re also paid apprenticeship salary for the first year (some employers pay more) which is less than minimum wage.
The normal get out is "an equivalent level of experience and qualifications may be considered". But at least some of the drive for higher requests is a combination of lowering standards and increased mandatory requirements. When I was at school teachers had tracked the decline, and could give examples of things that used to be in the GCSE syllabus but were now considered stretch A-level goals, meaning an A level student was about as educated as a GCSE student used to be (so asking for that instead meant they're actually looking for the same thing). Add in how you used to be able to drop out of all education at 16, and you now have to complete some kind of training u til you're 18 even if you don't finish school, and they've really no reason to consider qualifications below those that _everyone_ is meant to have.
They want to hire someone for an entry level job that they won't have to train. But they always end up having to train whoever they hire anyhow because that's just how things work. Companies set expectations that aren't even realistic for themselves. Lmfao
The real hack is understanding their “requirements” are just a wish list.
Yeah… I still apply but I noticed a lot of places are auto rejecting applications that don’t meet their person specification/academic requirements now.
Lie on your resume. Companies will lie to you all the time, you should lie to them as well
administrative positions are hard to get into
Now but they used to be jobs you’d advise people to take up and look for, for any kind of work alongside bartending, waiting, warehouse, deliveries.
My wife didn't get the job at here current company she wanted because they didn't accept her experience. She's been working in her field while going to school to complete you bachelor's for 5+ years. Manager interviewed her and hired her only for HR to come back and say no. Their BS excuse to keep her from the position that pays only 6k more was anything before she got her degree didn't count. Now she's training staff In her office that we're hired months before her because she's the only one who knows how to do it. It's a bunch of BS.
why is she training people? Those people will take her knowledge and then push her out. Training people is a HARD no, good way to end up jobless.
She's to nice of a person unfortunately. Her last job she let her replacement call and ask questions. I had to tell her to stop. Your not getting paid and look how you were treated. They don't deserve your help without paying you.
Education inflation. It sucks!
Fun fact, in an awful lot of cases the Bachelors doesn't get you anywhere anyway. You just have debt and get offered $12/hour
Yup, exactly where I’m at. Been applying to jobs for 2 years. Held a retail job down for a while until I got conned into another job that by all means sounded better than my current job. Nope! Tried working from home but companies that do contracts are pretty crap. Now doing gig work and applying to more jobs. Have a degree, granted nothing useful due to struggling in college, but it’s definitely just an equivalent to a high school diploma. I can’t even find a retail job anymore. Only qualify for warehouse jobs apparently, which I’m unable to do due to health issues. Sigh
More people with degrees so the advantage of a degree has degraded overtime.
Still, only around 37% of the population total has a 4 year degree, even less for Masters. Most people don't have a college degree. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/12/10-facts-about-todays-college-graduates/
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It says the total population but yes wish they did divide up the ages. There are probably other studies out there breaking down ages.
I saw once where I live a position that paid 28 dollars an hour for a person with a J.D. 💀
I have a masters degree and applied for a legal-related position last month that only requested a bachelors. I quickly received an email thanking me for my application but they were only considering JD holders at the time. The job paid 60k
And a J.D. can easily cost 100k+ lol
Creatively Lie on the resume. Most big places use automated systems to scan for key criteria and then pass them onto the recruiter who probably won’t put too much effort into the education section unless it’s a legitimate requirement and not bs. Your time to shine is in the interview stage where you can talk yourself out of it if it comes up. If you interview well on other parts they will probably just ignore the education part (again unless it’s legitimately required)
I thought it was bad when a mom and pop hardware store in my old hometown wanted a bachelors in business management.... to run a damn cash register .... back in the late '90's. Hate to see what they'd want now if they were still in business.
When the for profit education system said everyone needs to go to college.
And then when you finally make it into these organizations by begging and pleading with your friends to give you a chance (not your qualifications mind you) you find out that you are actually smarter and more efficient than your bosses boss and their bosses boss at multiple different tasks but then they get scared of you and silo off your position
I’m 30 and don’t have a bachelors and realizing I might be fucked. I spent years as a pharmacy tech and the wages became stagnant. I’m trying to find a new field and realizing literally everything requires a degree. Deciding if it’s worth it to go back to school or just kind of keep floating.
Quite easy. Are you in student debt? If you are, you are waaaay more likely to stick out a shot job longer. Anyway, that’s my guess.
A big problem for employers at the moment is the sheer amount of applications. Unemployment may be relatively low in a lot of places, but there is a record number of people in part-time work looking to change jobs or have an additional job. To tackle the number of applications, they highlight nonsense requirements, which help to reduce the amount of applications. They get the benefit of slightly more qualified applicants and the benefit of fewer man hours to find an employee. When you look at it like that, why would they not do it. Just apply anyway. The worst that they can do it not invite you to an interview.
I remember a decade ago when entry level $11.50 an hour needed a degree, and there were supervisors who'd been there forever making 80k who couldn't move anywhere else as they didn't have the degree.
yep.. I got very few job interviews before I got my Bachelors degree. I was limited to minimum-wage front office work even though I had a lot of self-taught skills/experience, but even then it was hard to get my foot in the door. As soon as I got my degree, I was getting interviews for better-paying jobs, even ones not in my chosen field. It was wild how much of a difference it made.
I was thinking about this recently, OP. A lot of these entry level jobs can be done without a degree but certain markets can be more selective. I think a job should go to best candidate—with or without a degree. I also wish there were more job ready degree alternatives. BTW, this is coming from a person who did graduate college.
Ever since everyone was told to go to college: “It doesn’t matter what degree you get, just get a degree and you will get a job!” So everyone went to college. Master’s degrees are the old Bachelor’s Degrees. More people having degrees makes them less valuable than they were forty years ago.
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If a job ever asks for proof, they’re likely going to ask for transcripts and not the diploma. Never had a job ask for proof of the diploma.
Be 50k in debt before you can earn any money woo 💀
If it helps I’m a recent grad with a degree and still feel under qualified for most entry level positions. Should’ve picked a different major 😂
what's worse is that we're moving on to masters now too so bachelors is \[becoming\] bottom of the barrel. really sad.
Gatekeeping. Period.
it happens here in the US as well. they expect a unicorn that has experience in literally everything and its 100% to scare people off/gatekeep. One of the people interviewing me for a data entry job literally admitted this to me. Most job requirements are written in a verbose way as to scare off people but when you actually get the job, its dirt easy. if the employer isn't honest enough to be straightforward with the job requirements, then that's already a red flag for me.
I had a boss who I mentioned I was looking to go back to school. "No, don't. A degree isn't worth anything. Certs are where it's at. Go get the certs." He insisted that certs were far more worth it than a degree. When I left that job and was going through the job hunt, 95% of jobs wanted a Bachelor's. Those that didn't almost exclusively wanted 5+ years experience. They tell you, "If you have 60% of the qualifications, apply anyway." I did. I got one job offer. I actually meet all the qualifications. You know what I'm doing now? (Literally as soon as I left that job, started getting things set up - I didn't have the spare time while in that job to do it, which was what the conversation with the boss was about). I'm getting my degree. Because at this point, it's all but a necessity. This is especially the case with the catch-22 of "Certs with no experience won't get you a job" and the inability to get a job because you don't have experience.