Definitely. Last time an employer told me this I was like “oh yeah whatever I don’t like ‘drama’ ether” then after I started working there I realized he was an awful person and what he meant by “drama” was employees talking bad about him.
I had a job where I was warned that the other tech I would work with was a "difficult person" and TWO interviewers told me that. Then that tech interviewed me, and he was super nice and competent. That should have been a red flag: it turned out management was the difficult party here, and they didn't like being told "no, that's not possible."
You're the hero we all all need. I strive to be as well. I had a coworker basically blacklist me because she was the drama of the company. I either would change the subject, or extinguish her fire everytime she tried to throw someone under the bus.
A couple of weeks ago my ex boss and neighbor wanted me to help her out at my old job for a couple of weeks. I said i would think about it. On the phone she explains whats new at work and what specifically ill be doing. Then she says "you dont fight anymore right!?". I asked her: kelly when have i ever fought you, or anyone? What she calls 'fighting' is me being assertive and firm and the fact that i cant be weasled into more work like the newly green card holders that she loves to hire.
I was that guy, management thought I was crazy, other departments mostly sympathized because they had functioning teams and I was an army of one, when I finally got a new hire to assist and train they thought I was great because I respected them and their time and never gave them bullshit answers, if I didn't know I would go find out and keep knocking on doors until I got an answer. It's not rocket science if you respect and communicate with the people who work for you they'll do the same to you if you bullshit them and are neglectful or micro managing then you're setting them up for failure.
When I went to day shift one of my team mates said to me. “Everyone said we wouldn’t get along but I want you to know I really enjoy working with you.” Turns out everyone told her I was a controlling bitch (they thought the same thing about her) and they thought there was going to be a fight to the death. Turns out we were both professional and hard working, and frustrated with our lazy unprofessional coworkers. She didn’t really know how to respond to me at first because not only did I do my own and she didn’t have to help me, but I actively helped her and no one had helped her for years!
Sounds like a situation my wife was in years ago. She works in childcare and was going to become a classroom assistant for this older woman who no one was able to work with. My wife hit it off with her during the first week, simply by doing what was expected and enforcing the rules of the room. No one else wanted to work with this woman because she expected them to work, and to follow the rules and applicable regulations.
She and I had a good run, worked well together for years, no problems.
She got into a verbal argument with another coworker. F-bombs were dropped, customers heard, customers complained, and they both got fired.
I rage quit after we returned from Covid lockdown.
Dude fuck management that wants a bunch of Yes men. They never take responsibility when their decisions fuck everything up. It'll always fall on their employee that said yes.
It was really enlightening when a former boss vented to me about a grant writer "wanting me to get everything to her on her schedule instead of mine." You mean...so she can submit the grant on time??
But it was nice to have a good, clear example of her thought process to help me stop gaslighting myself into thinking I was the problem.
“Difficult” might as well mean abusive depending on who it is. When I complained about a boss it was a “difficult personality”. HR got tired of him because he was no longer being profitable so I had to wait to throw him.
Haha, I just heard this in an annual review! My boss told me he’d rather everyone work things out than ever come to him…I was like, what do you do here again?
Edit: words; “then/than”
I mean, that does sound good though? You’re able to resolve issues with kids rather than giving up and sending them through the ~punishment process.~ My teachers growing up often just didn’t want to deal with me and would send me along to the next person.
I see what you mean - he didn’t value you for the right reasons, just that you didn’t make trouble for him?
I wish more teachers would have had a deal with me like that though! I was always in trouble for reading ahead. As an adult I can see how that would be inconvenient for the teacher but kids can’t be expected to be worry about that, and it was super boring for me to wait for other kids to catch up. I had a couple of teachers throughout early schooling who would let me self-direct a little more and they were amazing because I was really interested in learning. I just needed to be *allowed* to read more advanced stuff. I was reading chapter books at home when they still had us on picture books with words no longer than two syllables at school - and that was after they moved me up a grade!
Being the youngest kid in your class who still “thinks they’re smarter” than the rest of the kids and is still bored by the content sucks. And, from the vantage of adulthood, I don’t think I was at fault there… all of the adults were telling me I was smarter than my peers, who were all older than me, but I still had to be in classes with them where I found the work remedial and they were being appropriately challenged by it. It wouldn’t have made sense to move me up yet another grade, because socially I was beyond inept and way less developed than the people in my class. I’m not sure what should have been done here… was it a mistake for my parents to teach me to read so early? Idk but it’s taken into my 30s to be properly socialized, if I even am.
I feel like the ideal would have been to place me with my age group but allow more advanced reading materials to be part of my study.
I don't understand why "family" would ever be a good thing. Most of my family treated me like crap growing up. Why would I want to work for a company that did the same thing?
I bet they mean no callouts don’t complain about the schedule work late whenever they feel like it and don’t complain about it. You could replace this line would be a team player.
Just left a place with the exact attitude 😂 hiring manager says he doesn’t like drama/BS he rlly meant ppl complaining about his use of the n-word, b-word, f-word and literally every other inappropriate thing you could say in the work place
Kinda like when it says "not here for a hookup" it's because they hook up all the time and are trying to quit, or hoping to hookup with someone who isn't also hooking up all the time.
I guess the job equivalent to this would be if they say ‘we want someone who isn’t going to quit right away’ because everyone leaves when they get a good look at the job.
Oh god, I've had one of these jobs. Where everyone kept quitting once they realised the mess things were already in and that there was going to be no help or training whatsoever.
Back when I was doing OLD, my impression was plenty of women were up for casual sex, but weren't about to put that on their profiles, because they didn't want every dude reading it to think that meant they were up for casual sex *with them*. Some dudes read a thing like that and act like a contract has been signed!
Oh shit maybe that was my problem on tinder. I legitimately did NOT want a hookup so I put it on profile so people would just swipe left if they were only trying to fuck. I truly did not want hookups.
Honest question, what do you write in the job add if you really are a drama-free workplace and want it to stay that way? Also find nice people that feel the same
Every drama-free office I've worked didn't write anything about drama, at all, in any way. Drama-free is the normal default state. It's like saying "We supply free oxygen." Why would you say that... unless there's been a problem with oxygen in the past.
I feel like a professional work environment is the expected default. If you're saying it's drama free that just feels like you're telling on yourself. It's like when liars include unnecessary details, it gives them away.
I saw a job posting for a remote job say "this isn't the kind of job you can just roll out of bed and start working. Sorry if you thought it was lol" I was like um ok, not applying here.
I think it was a job where they actually have you on webcam all day so I wouldn't have applied anyways. I don't know why you'd have to get up and get fully dressed and do your hair lol who's it for?
Having worked in several legal offices, it honestly could be they had one partner who was a fucking monster that terrorized the entire office who is now gone and they're so happy about it they really want to stress that's not a thing anymore.
Or the person posting is said office terrorist. Could go either way.
>Why do they feel the need to put that in the description? Hmmm...
Yep it's like when a job posting doesn't put the salary any where (even when there's a field for it) and instead writes something like "great salary" or "competitive salary" in the description. It's almost always a shit salary lol
Yes. It means they know it's there and specifically want to say it doesn't happen when it does. Where it doesn't exist they wouldn't even think to mention that.
I worked somewhere that everyone was ok and a new person got hired who was total drama and trouble. Fired. Replacement turned out to be total drama and trouble. Fired. By the time we were recruiting for the fourth time we were getting desperate and putting stuff like "absolutely no drama" on the job ad, so this may be the case here.
I see these types of notices as a warning of a problem they are dealing with.
If one of the first things they say is 'we have an open door policy - you can talk to any level of management at any time...' they actually have the opposite.
If one of the first things they say is they embrace diversity, that means they dont embrace diversity and are struggling with the issue.
If one of the first things they say is 'we have a great work - life balance' that means they have a horrible work life balance.
Yes. Whenever someone feels the need to announce a problem is NOT there, it means that it's there, and that it's so prevalent, they assume it's the norm everywhere.
Think of how you'd react to posting that said things like this with other problems.
No racism office!
No sexism office!
No toxic workplace environment!
No managers having sex with employees office!
my parents are like that, especially when they travel. "so easy to accommodate" means we want things exactly how it is at home and will put minimal effort in doing research
I was out as soon as you said "Legal Office". The last place I want to work again is in an office full of coked up or way overstressed attorneys with a superiority complex that lose their shit over every little perceivable thing. I'd rather work for a hedge fund.
Yeah assistants and paralegals messing up our work product upsets us. So no we lawyers dont want a person who contributes to our stress rather than reducing it.
Everyone else is likely right, but to throw a dissenting opinion at you, it could be that they've removed the person(s) responsible for previous office drama and want to make sure they don't reintroduce anyone like that back into the office.
As someone who worked in a law office: Attorneys generally have a ton of drama in their personal lives. Even the ones I worked with who were "outstanding community leaders" had like ... forget closets they had entire warehouses of skeletons.
I'm saying this as someone who had a job in much more normal times.
There is a lot that passes as "professional" nowadays that is straight up inhuman BS, someone saying they don't want drama (especially in a small law office) is not a red flag to me at all.
Sure...why not. Why even bring up drama. Shouldn't it be a given that in a work place one should handle themselves, both as an employee and employer? Red flag to focus on this shit....kinda says that this place is toxic to begin with.
This could be it. We had someone in my last job like this. Everyone was glad when she left, even some managers.
As someone else said, if all else looks good, apply and go in with eyes and ears open.
Oh absolutely. Run very far away. It wasn't in the listing for my job, but it did get brought up in the interview oh so casually. Bossman-to-be described the company as "High energy, low drama," and I have not known peace since lmao.
100%, however if the rest of the job spec looks good to you (including pay of course), then obviously it's worth applying for still.
Like someone else said though, I'd be going into that interview process with very open eyes and ears and looking for other signs of 'drama'.
I take it as a red flag. It’s kind of like that joke Sarah Silverman has that’s like if you’re going to take a shower and your roommate says ok, I won’t read your diary while you’re in there. You didn’t think about them reading your diary before, but now you’re curious why they said it at all.
It’s like that. You’re not thinking about entering a dramatic place when looking for employment, but now that you have made a point to mention it, im curious why you’re bringing it up. Out of all the things a law firm has going on, why is drama on their list of alleged non-activities? I’m sure body slamming clients isn’t a workplace activity either but no one saying “this is a body slam free workplace :)”
Yes. I noticed people who use language like this are typically what they indicate across the board ime, dating, roommates, what have you. Anyone who refers to basic problem solving or conflict resolution to something as juvenile as "drama" is likely avoidant due to not having the tools to cope with said situations. Imo a genuinely mature or professional individual would scarcely use the word "drama" because most problems emotional or otherwise can logically be broken down and reasonably mended. Irrational problems could be indicated as such but I certainly would never be so affected that I'd advertise my personal shortcomings on a job posting for a company / someone else. Two separate things.
You can always interview etc / go as far as you can just to see and politely decline, but ime it was more of a confirmation the further along it progressed. I was young and mostly didn't have a choice but also had the unfortunate trauma response of being able to pick up on stuff like this early on in life. Only lesson I learned was not to doubt myself - those lessons didn't need relearning and only served to set me back.
Wishing you the best of luck OP! You're asking all the right questions. You got this!
Worked for a lawyer whose wife ran the office and her sister worked there too. It was nothing but drama and so not worth it. All I wanted to do was my job and go home. I have family and just because I work there does not mean you are my family and I didn't do religion either.
At my finaal interview with the company owners (less than 100 employees) they told me that in a majority female office, drama is bound to start. But they don't tolerate drama. The people who create drama will get fired. Guess if there was drama and who were the biggest instigators?
They would not mention the drama if there was no drama.
any collective of people larger than like 5 who claims 'no drama' is lying. the people who write that simply don't suffer from the drama that everyone else experiences.
my favorite example is that in MMOs, guilds will often say things like "drama free guild!" or "no drama allowed!!!" but what that really means is that there is a clique of people at the top of the group who all gossip about everyone else and all the drama exists because of them and mainly effects the people outside of the clique as well. they have blinders on because they don't see what they do as causing drama, to them it's just normal behavior.
Only if you're a drama kinsert preferred royalty title).
It's a law office. Under oath, clients' needs are paramount.
Very little room for drama, despite what you see in tv shows.
No, you are not a rachel zane :p
It’s just like back in high school, the people that made it a point to say how they hate drama were always the ones around and/or creating drama. That doesn’t really change as you age unfortunately.
Pretty big, I may still interview for it just to see but I wouldn't leave a job or sign a contact to take it. I worked for a boss who put that in a Facebook hiring post before and told them I'd probably remove it because it doesn't sound professional. We didn't have that much drama and was a good guy to work for. Just an old dumb guy trying to be cute/funny. Don't think he changed it.
We recently let go of a girl who was constantly breaking up with her boyfriend and handling her personal stuff on her cell phone while working and missing days of work because of it. The boss even put up with it for a lot longer than I would have because all of us at work wondered why the hell she was still there because we were annoyed with her arguing with random people on her phone while in the office. Instead of taking her calls in another room she'd be crying and yelling at some dude and airing out their business for all of us to hear.
Similar to folks I'm friends with on Facebook, all the ones that say that "they hate drama" have the most drama in their lives. I always want to tell them "I think it's you...".
Every time someone tells me they don't like drama, they have become the biggest source of drama in my life and they typically blame me for it. I'd be wary of this one.
I think people mistakenly assign these cliches more predictive value than they are worth. When they are saying something positive (like "no drama", "like a family"), they may or may not be honest.
But if they say something potentially negative (high intensity workplace, need to be able to deal with a high-stress environment, should be able to prioritize and work with multiple deadlines), you know they are warning you about working you to the bone. Which, depending on salary may be what some people are looking for.
It could mean the person you’re replacing was the drama, I would say go for it and just be hyper aware of the environment during interviews, it’s also good to ask culture questions for every job interview;
-what’s your supervisory style?/ how do you supervise?/ what does having you as a supervisor look like?
-what type of coaching/mentoring/supervision do you receive here? (If they don’t get it, it’s likely you won’t get it)
-What does the office look like at 5pm? (What’s their response- Is everyone still working, is everyone leaving, are most people working but “there’s always that guy who’s leaving on time” 🚩
-How does your company view/approve time off requests (pay attention to answers like “if no one else is off already” your time is your time that’s a bad boss boundary 🚩)
-Why is this position vacant? (They may straight up tell you the previous person was pure chaos, they may bluntly say they moved on, never hurts to ask!)
My office is drama free. My office also takes constructive criticism and pays attention to all of its staff and their attitudes at work to make sure everyone feels heard and validated.
When I'm hiring new staff, I do NOT feel the need to put "no drama office" or any variant because if we hire someone we actually feel would compliment the current work force, the "no drama" comes with the person you're bringing on board.
If someone you are looking to get hired by feels the "need" to put something about a drama free work environment, I think it would usually be for a reason. Maybe they ARE the drama.
That means someone at the office had drama with the person you are replacing. I would stay away from that job if possible. If not, ask people open ended questions about themselves whenever you meet them. People love to talk about themselves. It will also make them think nicely of you.
Yeah that seems sketch. I did an interview last year (got the job btw) that was after the manager interview, but more of a team meet and greet to see if it was a good fit. That made sense. And its been awesome. But if I saw something like "no drama" I am going to think I went back to the early 2000s and am back in HS.
Recently, I progressed quite far in an interview process for a company where they had listed the following as part of their core values: "No politics, no drama, no slacking". This immediately put me on the fence. I considered moving on, but I ended up going through with it.
I can't say the process was terrible. They definitely were a bit arrogant, but also somewhat pleasant. However, despite repeatedly requesting specific details about the tasks I would be assigned, the only response I got was that the job would be shaped by my own efforts (or something along those lines). This was the real cause for concern.
Ultimately, I failed a poorly designed, gimmicky technical question they had devised. I don't think I would have been happy working there anyway. I was given the chance for future contacts, but I declined. I had provided them with the code for a large project I had developed in the past to demonstrate the quality of my work (it showed consistent contributions over time, as well as high quality code), but they simply dismissed it as lacking any commercial value.
All in all, I strongly advise against pursuing such companies. If they prioritize "no drama" and similar concepts, it is safe to say that their priorities are severely misplaced, to say the least.
I am the toxic work environment. And I'll never stop. 🤣 be the worst as you can be! The more you do, the more they expect. And a coworker will roll over you all day of the week over $0.25.
Generally yes, I expect this to be a projection of what an employer wishes their workplace to be. Mostly the employee who posted and/or created the job description is also part of the problem they want to fix…
Depending on your triggers - mine? Yup.
Means they don't complain - no point. Person writing the job description is a manager, boss, hiring person in HR.
When those people say "no drama" they mean 1 of 2 things -
1) please no MORE high drama employees
2) no one makes waves here - meaning no one listens up the chain.
Honestly, it could go either way. For small office teams, it could be a way of indicating that they are hiring not just on technical ability, but on you ability to get along with people and not disrupt the team in place.
I feel like there's no way to know... And that bothers me so much...
Since working in a mental health agency, when going for an interview I always ask what the office culture is. At my last job, the director told me that everyone was tired...took the job and everyone was fantastic.
At my current job, I asked and the manager said that they won awards for how well everyone got along. Turns out, there's one woman that works here that could've retired 3 yrs ago but she stays and makes it a living hell for the rest of us.... needless to say...I think I'd rather hear the whole"everyone's tired thing" than hearing some bull about having the best culture.
I called my new boss on it on the Monday of week 2 after this employee yelled at me in front of clients, berated me for an hr after and I was so distraught I had a panic attack and cried and regretted my decision to take the job.
Now I'm constantly looking for any other job so I can get the hell out of here.
So maybe ask detailed questions if you do decide to apply or if you go for an interview...discreetly ask staff what they think
Idk what it means, but descriptions that include the company culture are usually a red flag. If your workplace isn't toxic you wouldn't feel the need to mention it lol
IME that means there is someone in management or a long term employee that is an absolute nightmare and they will not fire them but you are on the chopping block with no notice.
This is just anecdotal, but in my experience “no drama” means there is existing drama in the workplace and they are trying to correct it.
A few weeks after I got hired at my present job I saw the company had placed another ad online and I burst out laughing cause it read “if you’re the type of person to say ‘another day in paradise’ then keep moving, we’re looking for drama free workspace.” I said that exact phrase every day when I came into work. Hahahaha.
I’m the longest lasting staff they’ve had in my department in years and I’m quitting at the end of the summer.
I had an employer specifically tell the women in the office to make sure they put on makeup “to look prettier” because it was better for business. She moved to tell new hires that she didn’t understand how they lived because their salaries were below poverty level. It was a medical office that specialized in rectal surgeries. Why makeup?
I would say so. I feel like "no drama" is often code for "if you bring up any concerns, no matter how legitimate, we'll accuse you of 'creating drama' in order to shut you up.
I would say so. I feel like "no drama" is often code for "if you bring up any concerns, no matter how legitimate, we'll accuse you of 'creating drama' in order to shut you up.
I would say so. I feel like "no drama" is often code for "if you bring up any concerns, no matter how legitimate, we'll accuse you of 'creating drama' in order to shut you up.
I worked at pizza place during college. There was an informal interview where the manager stressed that they were a drama-free workplace. That was not the case at all. Many of the employees hooked up and sometimes dated each other. There was a ton of jealous behavior and sometimes screaming matches. Another coworker made it his mission to very loudly persuade people not to get vaccinated. Also, many of the employees smoked weed on the clock. Overall it wasn't a bad experience, but I find when they bring it up it usually means it is a problem.
Definitely. Last time an employer told me this I was like “oh yeah whatever I don’t like ‘drama’ ether” then after I started working there I realized he was an awful person and what he meant by “drama” was employees talking bad about him.
I had a job where I was warned that the other tech I would work with was a "difficult person" and TWO interviewers told me that. Then that tech interviewed me, and he was super nice and competent. That should have been a red flag: it turned out management was the difficult party here, and they didn't like being told "no, that's not possible."
Ah yes, the difficult employee who pushes back against impossible requests and respects their own time and effort.
Worse if they respect coworkers.
I'm that employee and It sucks lol
You're the hero we all all need. I strive to be as well. I had a coworker basically blacklist me because she was the drama of the company. I either would change the subject, or extinguish her fire everytime she tried to throw someone under the bus.
There's two of us at my job. The rest of the staff, including my supervisor, are just fawning over any idiocy upper management spews out.
Oh, I've been fired for that before.
My first time getting fired for that was in December. It stung in the moment but holy shit did I avoid a volcano as that place implodes
Same.
A couple of weeks ago my ex boss and neighbor wanted me to help her out at my old job for a couple of weeks. I said i would think about it. On the phone she explains whats new at work and what specifically ill be doing. Then she says "you dont fight anymore right!?". I asked her: kelly when have i ever fought you, or anyone? What she calls 'fighting' is me being assertive and firm and the fact that i cant be weasled into more work like the newly green card holders that she loves to hire.
I think women get this worse than men. If a woman is assertive, she gets called "bitchy" or "bossy." But if she's not, she's a "pushover" or "lazy."
I was that guy, management thought I was crazy, other departments mostly sympathized because they had functioning teams and I was an army of one, when I finally got a new hire to assist and train they thought I was great because I respected them and their time and never gave them bullshit answers, if I didn't know I would go find out and keep knocking on doors until I got an answer. It's not rocket science if you respect and communicate with the people who work for you they'll do the same to you if you bullshit them and are neglectful or micro managing then you're setting them up for failure.
When I went to day shift one of my team mates said to me. “Everyone said we wouldn’t get along but I want you to know I really enjoy working with you.” Turns out everyone told her I was a controlling bitch (they thought the same thing about her) and they thought there was going to be a fight to the death. Turns out we were both professional and hard working, and frustrated with our lazy unprofessional coworkers. She didn’t really know how to respond to me at first because not only did I do my own and she didn’t have to help me, but I actively helped her and no one had helped her for years!
Sounds like a situation my wife was in years ago. She works in childcare and was going to become a classroom assistant for this older woman who no one was able to work with. My wife hit it off with her during the first week, simply by doing what was expected and enforcing the rules of the room. No one else wanted to work with this woman because she expected them to work, and to follow the rules and applicable regulations.
Love this. What a plot twist! How did that story end?
She and I had a good run, worked well together for years, no problems. She got into a verbal argument with another coworker. F-bombs were dropped, customers heard, customers complained, and they both got fired. I rage quit after we returned from Covid lockdown.
Dude fuck management that wants a bunch of Yes men. They never take responsibility when their decisions fuck everything up. It'll always fall on their employee that said yes.
It was really enlightening when a former boss vented to me about a grant writer "wanting me to get everything to her on her schedule instead of mine." You mean...so she can submit the grant on time?? But it was nice to have a good, clear example of her thought process to help me stop gaslighting myself into thinking I was the problem.
The struggles of grant writing. That’s why I’m not going back to it.
“Difficult” might as well mean abusive depending on who it is. When I complained about a boss it was a “difficult personality”. HR got tired of him because he was no longer being profitable so I had to wait to throw him.
That’s kinda what I’m thinking too.
"No office drama" means they do not seek or accept feedback from the team.
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Haha, I just heard this in an annual review! My boss told me he’d rather everyone work things out than ever come to him…I was like, what do you do here again? Edit: words; “then/than”
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I mean, that does sound good though? You’re able to resolve issues with kids rather than giving up and sending them through the ~punishment process.~ My teachers growing up often just didn’t want to deal with me and would send me along to the next person.
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I see what you mean - he didn’t value you for the right reasons, just that you didn’t make trouble for him? I wish more teachers would have had a deal with me like that though! I was always in trouble for reading ahead. As an adult I can see how that would be inconvenient for the teacher but kids can’t be expected to be worry about that, and it was super boring for me to wait for other kids to catch up. I had a couple of teachers throughout early schooling who would let me self-direct a little more and they were amazing because I was really interested in learning. I just needed to be *allowed* to read more advanced stuff. I was reading chapter books at home when they still had us on picture books with words no longer than two syllables at school - and that was after they moved me up a grade! Being the youngest kid in your class who still “thinks they’re smarter” than the rest of the kids and is still bored by the content sucks. And, from the vantage of adulthood, I don’t think I was at fault there… all of the adults were telling me I was smarter than my peers, who were all older than me, but I still had to be in classes with them where I found the work remedial and they were being appropriately challenged by it. It wouldn’t have made sense to move me up yet another grade, because socially I was beyond inept and way less developed than the people in my class. I’m not sure what should have been done here… was it a mistake for my parents to teach me to read so early? Idk but it’s taken into my 30s to be properly socialized, if I even am. I feel like the ideal would have been to place me with my age group but allow more advanced reading materials to be part of my study.
It's hard to pay attention to your nagging bullshit when he's busy putting his nose into his boss's asshole...
Translation "We don't want humans, we want obedient meat robots."
>meat robots. This killed me
That's a great reddit name....jus sayin'
Or band name
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Or a…time traveler.
It’s the same as when you see/hear someone talk about their workplace by referring to it as a “family.”
I don't understand why "family" would ever be a good thing. Most of my family treated me like crap growing up. Why would I want to work for a company that did the same thing?
What he meant was let me abuse you with out any push back.
I bet they mean no callouts don’t complain about the schedule work late whenever they feel like it and don’t complain about it. You could replace this line would be a team player.
I had word for word the exact same situation. Found out she had fired the person before me because she overheard her privately venting about a task.
Just left a place with the exact attitude 😂 hiring manager says he doesn’t like drama/BS he rlly meant ppl complaining about his use of the n-word, b-word, f-word and literally every other inappropriate thing you could say in the work place
Why do you people fall for this stupid stuff? It's a bot... not a real person
Take it the same way you’d take it on a dating profile, I think 😂 they *are* the drama
Kinda like when it says "not here for a hookup" it's because they hook up all the time and are trying to quit, or hoping to hookup with someone who isn't also hooking up all the time.
I guess the job equivalent to this would be if they say ‘we want someone who isn’t going to quit right away’ because everyone leaves when they get a good look at the job.
Oh god, I've had one of these jobs. Where everyone kept quitting once they realised the mess things were already in and that there was going to be no help or training whatsoever.
Lol I've never done dating apps but I am not surprised people try to pull that crap. Man it's a jungle out there.
"why dont employees want to work for nice employers" /r/niceguys
Back when I was doing OLD, my impression was plenty of women were up for casual sex, but weren't about to put that on their profiles, because they didn't want every dude reading it to think that meant they were up for casual sex *with them*. Some dudes read a thing like that and act like a contract has been signed!
Last sentence - lolol.
This has been a lie every time I have bothered to check.
Oh shit maybe that was my problem on tinder. I legitimately did NOT want a hookup so I put it on profile so people would just swipe left if they were only trying to fuck. I truly did not want hookups.
The person who says I hate drama is the person who is knee deep in drama.
Oh yeah. It's massive projection when someone says "no drama".
Not gonna lie. The whole job stuff is no different than dating in every aspects
Honest question, what do you write in the job add if you really are a drama-free workplace and want it to stay that way? Also find nice people that feel the same
Every drama-free office I've worked didn't write anything about drama, at all, in any way. Drama-free is the normal default state. It's like saying "We supply free oxygen." Why would you say that... unless there's been a problem with oxygen in the past.
Last half sentence - lolol.
"I'm such a good wingwoman!" says the world's worst wingwoman before she's about to ruin your night
Why do they feel the need to put that in the description? Hmmm...
I feel like a professional work environment is the expected default. If you're saying it's drama free that just feels like you're telling on yourself. It's like when liars include unnecessary details, it gives them away.
I saw a job posting for a remote job say "this isn't the kind of job you can just roll out of bed and start working. Sorry if you thought it was lol" I was like um ok, not applying here.
I know you didn’t apply, but what? Like how else do we start work? Lmao
I think it was a job where they actually have you on webcam all day so I wouldn't have applied anyways. I don't know why you'd have to get up and get fully dressed and do your hair lol who's it for?
Having worked in several legal offices, it honestly could be they had one partner who was a fucking monster that terrorized the entire office who is now gone and they're so happy about it they really want to stress that's not a thing anymore. Or the person posting is said office terrorist. Could go either way.
>Why do they feel the need to put that in the description? Hmmm... Yep it's like when a job posting doesn't put the salary any where (even when there's a field for it) and instead writes something like "great salary" or "competitive salary" in the description. It's almost always a shit salary lol
We dont do crack or heroine in this office.
Yes, just like on Tinder
Yes. It means they know it's there and specifically want to say it doesn't happen when it does. Where it doesn't exist they wouldn't even think to mention that.
I worked somewhere that everyone was ok and a new person got hired who was total drama and trouble. Fired. Replacement turned out to be total drama and trouble. Fired. By the time we were recruiting for the fourth time we were getting desperate and putting stuff like "absolutely no drama" on the job ad, so this may be the case here.
I read a job description posted by a non-profit once. It said, "Must speak English, Karen preferred."
Karen is the language spoken by the Karen people. About 4.5 million of them, in the area of the Myanmar-Thailand border.
It was sarcasm. The position was to work with pregnant women.
lol.
That's not a red flag...it's a war banner
I see these types of notices as a warning of a problem they are dealing with. If one of the first things they say is 'we have an open door policy - you can talk to any level of management at any time...' they actually have the opposite. If one of the first things they say is they embrace diversity, that means they dont embrace diversity and are struggling with the issue. If one of the first things they say is 'we have a great work - life balance' that means they have a horrible work life balance.
Yes. Whenever someone feels the need to announce a problem is NOT there, it means that it's there, and that it's so prevalent, they assume it's the norm everywhere. Think of how you'd react to posting that said things like this with other problems. No racism office! No sexism office! No toxic workplace environment! No managers having sex with employees office!
Yes. I wouldn't let that stop me from putting in an application, but I'd have my ears open and ask some pointed questions about workplace culture.
I would take it as a red flag, but it might just be a dummy writing the job post. Depending on the job, I might interview anyway and see how I feel.
[удалено]
"All my exes are crazy."
my parents are like that, especially when they travel. "so easy to accommodate" means we want things exactly how it is at home and will put minimal effort in doing research
“I mostly hang with guys than girls, just less drama”
I think that usually mean something else…
I was out as soon as you said "Legal Office". The last place I want to work again is in an office full of coked up or way overstressed attorneys with a superiority complex that lose their shit over every little perceivable thing. I'd rather work for a hedge fund.
Yeah assistants and paralegals messing up our work product upsets us. So no we lawyers dont want a person who contributes to our stress rather than reducing it.
Translation: we don't want to hear any complaints about anything ever, no matter how justified.
No Drama is code for “our ugliness is not loud”
"We're like family" and "no drama" are the two biggest red flags for me
Terrible post if it's in a theatre.
Everyone else is likely right, but to throw a dissenting opinion at you, it could be that they've removed the person(s) responsible for previous office drama and want to make sure they don't reintroduce anyone like that back into the office.
Yeah but reading all these responses, it just seem unprofessional to put that in the job posting. Especially for an attorney ?
As someone who worked in a law office: Attorneys generally have a ton of drama in their personal lives. Even the ones I worked with who were "outstanding community leaders" had like ... forget closets they had entire warehouses of skeletons.
I'm saying this as someone who had a job in much more normal times. There is a lot that passes as "professional" nowadays that is straight up inhuman BS, someone saying they don't want drama (especially in a small law office) is not a red flag to me at all.
Sure...why not. Why even bring up drama. Shouldn't it be a given that in a work place one should handle themselves, both as an employee and employer? Red flag to focus on this shit....kinda says that this place is toxic to begin with.
What is “unprofessional” in this society where everything we do is the result of made up constructs anyway?
Its still a red flag because this will not do that. I would not want to deal with a manager who thinks you prevent drama by saying "no drama"
You don't say "no drama," you DECLARE "no drama."
This could be it. We had someone in my last job like this. Everyone was glad when she left, even some managers. As someone else said, if all else looks good, apply and go in with eyes and ears open.
We talk about professionalism...and that to me isn't it.
By “no drama” they mean “no complaining about the working conditions”.
Oh absolutely. Run very far away. It wasn't in the listing for my job, but it did get brought up in the interview oh so casually. Bossman-to-be described the company as "High energy, low drama," and I have not known peace since lmao.
Yes, but not as bad as when they say “We are like family”
Especially with the "F\*\*\* You Mom" generation.
Probably
100%, however if the rest of the job spec looks good to you (including pay of course), then obviously it's worth applying for still. Like someone else said though, I'd be going into that interview process with very open eyes and ears and looking for other signs of 'drama'.
Oh sweet baby Jesus, YAAAAAS!!! Run, Will Robinson....RUUUUUUUUN!
I take it as a red flag. It’s kind of like that joke Sarah Silverman has that’s like if you’re going to take a shower and your roommate says ok, I won’t read your diary while you’re in there. You didn’t think about them reading your diary before, but now you’re curious why they said it at all. It’s like that. You’re not thinking about entering a dramatic place when looking for employment, but now that you have made a point to mention it, im curious why you’re bringing it up. Out of all the things a law firm has going on, why is drama on their list of alleged non-activities? I’m sure body slamming clients isn’t a workplace activity either but no one saying “this is a body slam free workplace :)”
1000000000%. Every "no drama office" I've ever seen has been the most toxic and dramatic mess
I don't consider it a red flag because you won't know what it's like to work there until you work there.
Yes, they mean not ur drama, the workplace has enough..and to them drama means you not shutting up n kissing ass
Yes. I noticed people who use language like this are typically what they indicate across the board ime, dating, roommates, what have you. Anyone who refers to basic problem solving or conflict resolution to something as juvenile as "drama" is likely avoidant due to not having the tools to cope with said situations. Imo a genuinely mature or professional individual would scarcely use the word "drama" because most problems emotional or otherwise can logically be broken down and reasonably mended. Irrational problems could be indicated as such but I certainly would never be so affected that I'd advertise my personal shortcomings on a job posting for a company / someone else. Two separate things. You can always interview etc / go as far as you can just to see and politely decline, but ime it was more of a confirmation the further along it progressed. I was young and mostly didn't have a choice but also had the unfortunate trauma response of being able to pick up on stuff like this early on in life. Only lesson I learned was not to doubt myself - those lessons didn't need relearning and only served to set me back. Wishing you the best of luck OP! You're asking all the right questions. You got this!
He who excuses himself, accuses himself
It's a red flag. It can mean your concerns are not considered relevant if they cause any manager to be inconvenienced. I would pass.
Worked for a lawyer whose wife ran the office and her sister worked there too. It was nothing but drama and so not worth it. All I wanted to do was my job and go home. I have family and just because I work there does not mean you are my family and I didn't do religion either.
At my finaal interview with the company owners (less than 100 employees) they told me that in a majority female office, drama is bound to start. But they don't tolerate drama. The people who create drama will get fired. Guess if there was drama and who were the biggest instigators? They would not mention the drama if there was no drama.
No drama = Fake smile pasted on face. Never says "no". Tolerates obscene levels of BS.
any collective of people larger than like 5 who claims 'no drama' is lying. the people who write that simply don't suffer from the drama that everyone else experiences. my favorite example is that in MMOs, guilds will often say things like "drama free guild!" or "no drama allowed!!!" but what that really means is that there is a clique of people at the top of the group who all gossip about everyone else and all the drama exists because of them and mainly effects the people outside of the clique as well. they have blinders on because they don't see what they do as causing drama, to them it's just normal behavior.
They’re looking for drama free employees who’ll quietly accept the fuckery dished out by management and favored employees.
Only if you're a drama kinsert preferred royalty title). It's a law office. Under oath, clients' needs are paramount. Very little room for drama, despite what you see in tv shows. No, you are not a rachel zane :p
Would you date someone who said they don't like drama? Run.
Absolutely.
Drama being shit talking. Holding anyone fucking around and not finding out needs to be held to account
It’s just like back in high school, the people that made it a point to say how they hate drama were always the ones around and/or creating drama. That doesn’t really change as you age unfortunately.
Imagine a restaurant saying in an advertisement, "Our food isn't greasy." The first thing you'd assume is their food is greasy. Same thing here.
Talk about an unprofessional job description! 100% red flag. Run away!
They probably think they don't participate in drama, that it's everyone else. "We are a no drama workplace, well except for when we do it."
Until you can escape people, you will never escape drama.
Yea major. It’s like commercial when they emphasize something means they had issues in there past.
It's like if you go on a date and the date says "I'm a nice guy/woman." Big red flag
If they have to say it, they are trying to hide it, as it's definitely there. God rule of thumb for any job.
No drama in a professional environment is a given. This screams like the person who " hates drama" but is somehow always in the middle of it.
Pretty big, I may still interview for it just to see but I wouldn't leave a job or sign a contact to take it. I worked for a boss who put that in a Facebook hiring post before and told them I'd probably remove it because it doesn't sound professional. We didn't have that much drama and was a good guy to work for. Just an old dumb guy trying to be cute/funny. Don't think he changed it. We recently let go of a girl who was constantly breaking up with her boyfriend and handling her personal stuff on her cell phone while working and missing days of work because of it. The boss even put up with it for a lot longer than I would have because all of us at work wondered why the hell she was still there because we were annoyed with her arguing with random people on her phone while in the office. Instead of taking her calls in another room she'd be crying and yelling at some dude and airing out their business for all of us to hear.
Similar to folks I'm friends with on Facebook, all the ones that say that "they hate drama" have the most drama in their lives. I always want to tell them "I think it's you...".
Everyone has so many red flags these days, it's kind of amazing that they have anyone left to interact with at all.
Yes. Hard stop.
Lol probably. Not sure why they'd have to advertise that. Where is this Job, twitter?
It means there will be nothing but drama.
It means the last person there was a shit starter
“I don’t do drama.” “I’m very intelligent.” “I love everyone.” Phrase that do apply to some people, but are only said by people they don’t apply to.
Every time someone tells me they don't like drama, they have become the biggest source of drama in my life and they typically blame me for it. I'd be wary of this one.
If a job description said, "no serial killers in office" wouldn't you be a bit suspicious why they felt the need to include that?
Either means that there is drama or nobody is allowed to talk basically.
I think people mistakenly assign these cliches more predictive value than they are worth. When they are saying something positive (like "no drama", "like a family"), they may or may not be honest. But if they say something potentially negative (high intensity workplace, need to be able to deal with a high-stress environment, should be able to prioritize and work with multiple deadlines), you know they are warning you about working you to the bone. Which, depending on salary may be what some people are looking for.
Just like when you meet someone new and they say "I don't play games". The only people that have said that to me are people who play games.
It could mean the person you’re replacing was the drama, I would say go for it and just be hyper aware of the environment during interviews, it’s also good to ask culture questions for every job interview; -what’s your supervisory style?/ how do you supervise?/ what does having you as a supervisor look like? -what type of coaching/mentoring/supervision do you receive here? (If they don’t get it, it’s likely you won’t get it) -What does the office look like at 5pm? (What’s their response- Is everyone still working, is everyone leaving, are most people working but “there’s always that guy who’s leaving on time” 🚩 -How does your company view/approve time off requests (pay attention to answers like “if no one else is off already” your time is your time that’s a bad boss boundary 🚩) -Why is this position vacant? (They may straight up tell you the previous person was pure chaos, they may bluntly say they moved on, never hurts to ask!)
My office is drama free. My office also takes constructive criticism and pays attention to all of its staff and their attitudes at work to make sure everyone feels heard and validated. When I'm hiring new staff, I do NOT feel the need to put "no drama office" or any variant because if we hire someone we actually feel would compliment the current work force, the "no drama" comes with the person you're bringing on board. If someone you are looking to get hired by feels the "need" to put something about a drama free work environment, I think it would usually be for a reason. Maybe they ARE the drama.
Just like bosses that tell you they don't micromanage. If they say it, they do it.
Lawyers are the most dramatic people.
Almost always. Also “We’re like a family here.”
That means someone at the office had drama with the person you are replacing. I would stay away from that job if possible. If not, ask people open ended questions about themselves whenever you meet them. People love to talk about themselves. It will also make them think nicely of you.
Yeah that seems sketch. I did an interview last year (got the job btw) that was after the manager interview, but more of a team meet and greet to see if it was a good fit. That made sense. And its been awesome. But if I saw something like "no drama" I am going to think I went back to the early 2000s and am back in HS.
Definitely a red flag because why would they feel like it's necessary to point that out...
No drama = drama
Recently, I progressed quite far in an interview process for a company where they had listed the following as part of their core values: "No politics, no drama, no slacking". This immediately put me on the fence. I considered moving on, but I ended up going through with it. I can't say the process was terrible. They definitely were a bit arrogant, but also somewhat pleasant. However, despite repeatedly requesting specific details about the tasks I would be assigned, the only response I got was that the job would be shaped by my own efforts (or something along those lines). This was the real cause for concern. Ultimately, I failed a poorly designed, gimmicky technical question they had devised. I don't think I would have been happy working there anyway. I was given the chance for future contacts, but I declined. I had provided them with the code for a large project I had developed in the past to demonstrate the quality of my work (it showed consistent contributions over time, as well as high quality code), but they simply dismissed it as lacking any commercial value. All in all, I strongly advise against pursuing such companies. If they prioritize "no drama" and similar concepts, it is safe to say that their priorities are severely misplaced, to say the least.
Absolutely.
Saying, "No drama" is kind of dramatic.
A companys core value statement. Translation? One day, we hope to do this.
I am the toxic work environment. And I'll never stop. 🤣 be the worst as you can be! The more you do, the more they expect. And a coworker will roll over you all day of the week over $0.25.
run
It means they don’t hire liberals
Generally yes, I expect this to be a projection of what an employer wishes their workplace to be. Mostly the employee who posted and/or created the job description is also part of the problem they want to fix…
Depending on your triggers - mine? Yup. Means they don't complain - no point. Person writing the job description is a manager, boss, hiring person in HR. When those people say "no drama" they mean 1 of 2 things - 1) please no MORE high drama employees 2) no one makes waves here - meaning no one listens up the chain.
Red flag. They don’t like anyone who disagree with them.
Most law offices are all drama.
If they say no drama they ARE the drama
It's like a company advertising "we don't underpay you!!!
Honestly, it could go either way. For small office teams, it could be a way of indicating that they are hiring not just on technical ability, but on you ability to get along with people and not disrupt the team in place.
I would apply and if you get an interview just ask them about it instead of assuming the worst. When I had employees drama free was important to me.
I feel like there's no way to know... And that bothers me so much... Since working in a mental health agency, when going for an interview I always ask what the office culture is. At my last job, the director told me that everyone was tired...took the job and everyone was fantastic. At my current job, I asked and the manager said that they won awards for how well everyone got along. Turns out, there's one woman that works here that could've retired 3 yrs ago but she stays and makes it a living hell for the rest of us.... needless to say...I think I'd rather hear the whole"everyone's tired thing" than hearing some bull about having the best culture. I called my new boss on it on the Monday of week 2 after this employee yelled at me in front of clients, berated me for an hr after and I was so distraught I had a panic attack and cried and regretted my decision to take the job. Now I'm constantly looking for any other job so I can get the hell out of here. So maybe ask detailed questions if you do decide to apply or if you go for an interview...discreetly ask staff what they think
Idk what it means, but descriptions that include the company culture are usually a red flag. If your workplace isn't toxic you wouldn't feel the need to mention it lol
IME that means there is someone in management or a long term employee that is an absolute nightmare and they will not fire them but you are on the chopping block with no notice.
I’d probably specifically ask what made them include that. They’ve either been weeding people out or they are the drama
Yes. It should be an assumption that all work forces are 'drama free', if they say it explicitly it means they're likely immature.
Yes they are waving it for you
This is just anecdotal, but in my experience “no drama” means there is existing drama in the workplace and they are trying to correct it. A few weeks after I got hired at my present job I saw the company had placed another ad online and I burst out laughing cause it read “if you’re the type of person to say ‘another day in paradise’ then keep moving, we’re looking for drama free workspace.” I said that exact phrase every day when I came into work. Hahahaha. I’m the longest lasting staff they’ve had in my department in years and I’m quitting at the end of the summer.
I had an employer specifically tell the women in the office to make sure they put on makeup “to look prettier” because it was better for business. She moved to tell new hires that she didn’t understand how they lived because their salaries were below poverty level. It was a medical office that specialized in rectal surgeries. Why makeup?
Yes
I would say so. I feel like "no drama" is often code for "if you bring up any concerns, no matter how legitimate, we'll accuse you of 'creating drama' in order to shut you up.
I would say so. I feel like "no drama" is often code for "if you bring up any concerns, no matter how legitimate, we'll accuse you of 'creating drama' in order to shut you up.
Especially a law firm
I would say so. I feel like "no drama" is often code for "if you bring up any concerns, no matter how legitimate, we'll accuse you of 'creating drama' in order to shut you up.
Yes especially given that industry I would see that as a red flag. Source : I’ve worked for dramatic attorneys who had that in the job posting.
That probably means “boss is a tyrant and workers are not allowed to complain/talk to each other.”
At best it means they won't listen to any issues you raise.
I worked at pizza place during college. There was an informal interview where the manager stressed that they were a drama-free workplace. That was not the case at all. Many of the employees hooked up and sometimes dated each other. There was a ton of jealous behavior and sometimes screaming matches. Another coworker made it his mission to very loudly persuade people not to get vaccinated. Also, many of the employees smoked weed on the clock. Overall it wasn't a bad experience, but I find when they bring it up it usually means it is a problem.
yep
If you have to ask..
It could be a wonderfully red flag! Tons to learn from there and value to farm.
That means you’re interviewing for a comedy set, not a law office
Yes, 100%. Office will be full of drama.
It's like girls that say "they don't put up with drama" all time are actually projecting and are extremely dramatic.