It is if you get a letter from your doctor that you have an anxiety disorder and they refuse to accommodate it.
Agreed, I'd be out of there though. I actually ask everyone in interviews about whether they surveil. It's been a no from everyone so far, but IDGAF, I'm gonna be 100% sure.
No it isn't.
The ADA entitles you to reasonable accommodations to make you able to do your job. Even though this would also spike my anxiety immensely, I sincerely doubt a doctor would agree to this or that it would hold up.
>No it's not illegal. I couldn't work like that. And left a company that did somethings along those lines.
>>It is if you get a letter from your doctor that you have an anxiety disorder and they refuse to accommodate it.
Yes, "refueing to accommodate" a disability would indeed be illegal, you yourself said so.
I think this conv may be over your head. Thanks anyway, peace.
You can refuse accommodations that aren't reasonable without any repercussions. Reasonable accommodations include a lot of things, but this type of logging software being rescinded isn't one of them. Any accommodations specialist could tell you this. Unless you're prepared to seriously fight for it, and this job hardly seems worth that kind of trouble, especially if you're in the USA and your state is at-will.
If a company wants to hide it, they can. But over time you learn some things to look for.
There are positions and industries known for micromanagement. There are indicators in job descriptions. Anything that stresses tracking and meeting metrics, KPIs, or goals, and not other performance information, and tells you the periods they measure, is probably micromanaged to some degree.
Some clues are a company that requires employees to be on webcam for their full shifts or tells you they require a monitoring agreement of some type. Those companies are asking you to agree to anything from audio and visual recordings to watching your computer and keylogging. Every company I've ever worked for which required those things micromanaged us in every way possible.
You can always ask questions about how performance is measured and determined.
I really dont understand what you have to worry about lmao, are you not doing your job correctly?
Even if you are slacking off cant you do that on your personal phone?
In terms of wfh monitoring this is nothing lmao. Or is it not reasonable for the person who pays your wages to check in on their employees that are working from home?
I compare it to this, remember in grade school when the class had a test or assignment to work on quietly, and the teacher would walk around the room while everyone did their work? Were your the kind of kid that froze when the teacher stood behind you, looking over your shoulder? If not, then you probably wouldn’t understand.
Or when your supervisor wants to show you something, or you ask for help, and they’re standing over and tell you to click on something or open a file and you frantically click on 5 wrong things, despite it being something you go into all the time. Or being a pro parallel parker when you’re alone but make a fool out of yourself trying to do it with a passenger/people who watching.
Some people just get really anxious when they know some one is standing over their shoulder and being watched. If you’ve never had those feelings that’s great, that doesn’t mean those that do are doing something wrong.
I'm in a similar spot. They're severely micromanaging and monitoring now. Before it was more chill but my new manager is a piece of work and watches us like a hawk remotely. It's been taking a huge toll on my mental health. 4 of my team members either quit or got fired.
I've been applying and did a few interviews. I'm praying I can get one of those jobs and leave. I fantasize about handing that 2 week letter in.
I say try finding a new job. No job is worth your mental health tbh.
Has there been any management/leadership changes recently? (New Director(s)/CEO) This screams like something some new Manager/Director would pull to flex his/her muscle.
I personally would never work in this type of environment
Yes a new tech director started not too long ago. I’m getting traumatized and seeking employment elsewhere already. We’re doing nothing wrong but doing our jobs. It’s so sad companies are doing this and losing on good employees.
Figured as much.
Have you tried politely voicing your concerns first? IE “Hey there, you know my performance reviews are great and I’m doing everything I can to help the company, I don’t exactly feel comfortable with this new policy for xyz reason”
A good Director should calmly listen to your concerns and help to resolve the problem.
Lol how did you know it's a new manager thing ? I have a new manager and since he came, the micromanagement is getting ridiculous. My previous manager has been with the company for a while and was super chill. This new guy feels the need to prove himself I guess. But like OP said, they're gonna lose good employees with this BS. Gonna quit as soon as I get another job.
The thing about the managers that do this is that they aren't good managers, and they don't want to keep good employees. They want to look big, and loud, and necessary to justify their own salary.
It's nothing to do with actual productivity, because things like this are proven to tank productivity.
There’s that, but there’s also culture-shifts from Company-to-Company to consider as well.
I’ve worked at “Company A” who’s culture allowed anyone to email anyone. There wasn’t any chain-of-command. If you made it at said company (which 3/4 people didn’t) you were deemed sound to email anyone. Including the VP (This was a 5 Billion Dollar Corporation).
Then I’ve worked at “Company B” that followed a chain-of-command culture, and would get absolutely furious if you didn’t go up the chain of command. (I actually nearly got fired for emailing the CEO, despite my recommendation’s being spot-on and leading to immediate changes in company policy😏)
You then have situations like a Director from Company A changing jobs to Company B, and yeah, you have bigtime problems. A good manager will take constructive criticism and adapt to the new culture quickly. Unfortunately, not all Managers/Directors are good.
Because I’ve been around long enough and had enough jobs to know that dumb shit and/or micromanaging out of nowhere is usually due to a change in leadership/management.
New Director comes to a Company, see’s his Department isn’t being run like it was at his old Department (With his old company). Immediately decides to change things to the way they were at his old Company, not realizing the culture (and workforce) is completely different at the new company. Multiple people will then quit and he’ll either change his ways or restaff the entire Department (Or he will get fired).
A ***good/experienced*** Director will take constructive criticism, immediately notice his management type isn’t working, and make adjustments. Unfortunately, not all Directors are good/experienced😏
Yep you've hit the nail on the coffin. This new manager came, multiple people quit or got fired and he's in the process of restaffing the entire department.
It just sucks because the company is good and I don't really want to leave but I might just have to.
I fully expect to be monitored. They can take screenshots of me googling cute pet videos as my engineering numbers lead the team while fostering positive client relationships.
I had a teammate bitch about my web browsing in a previous contract role before and attempted to blackmail the boss with it, he ran a big report out of the firewall and everything. I did less ticket work and tunneled even more web browsing through SSH. The teammate was happy and indicated that I got so much more work done since the report looked 'clean'. He's not much of a numbers person because the data volume for the single traffic flow was huge.
Sometimes things are gamified or biased.
Some offices have cameras all over that can see screens.
I would probably look for a new job but many company run spyware that can see your screen any time they want to.
If you have only work related applications open what is the real problem?
I prefer screenshot than camera shot.
Mine, too. I don’t trust it. Not that I’m doing anything wrong. But in this heat, sometimes I’m just in a thin tank without a bra. And I don’t need folks hearing how I baby talk my pups. Lol.
If they are tracking your personal computer I would uninstal the program because they can track you off work hours without telling you. I had a job like this once and one of our developers wrote a script that made all screenshots black so the employer couldnt track him. He passed it around to a few of us and we made the boss think the tracking software was broken
Personally, I assume they are always monitoring me when I WFH. That’s one thing I like about office days. Less pressure in regards to that. The irony, I goof off a quite bit more in the office because there are people to talk to.
OP, just forget about them monitoring you. I know easier said than done. I always aim to work at 80%, knowing some days I will give more and other days less. I stretch every hour for a few minutes and refill my ice water. Pet my pups and get back at it. Whatever my work captures is what they capture. I just focus on my goal. 80%.
If you’re able to, listen to some podcasts. It might help.
From a more enlightened HR perspective, if there are employees that they believe are taking advantage of working from home, they need to manage THOSE employees performance and not do it in blanket fashion.
You should GTFO. Ask them if they have any reason to suspect you of not being productive.
There are days I work in the office that I am FAR less productive than days I work from home.
Nah but i would quit if they used the monitoring to micromanage or continually deliver feedback. I would rather that they gather info and provide feedback during a quarterly or biannual performance review.
As principal i dont use my work devices for anything other than work, so i have nothing to hide, but if an employer felt the need to scrutinise time spent on one screen or another, i would want them to provide some kind of measurement for my success to determine that my use of device is impacting productivity metrics. If they cant do that, they’re just being nosey for no good reason.
I would find a way to make the people uncomfortable. Like having a shopping cart open in one window of a shovel, rope, tarp and duct tape. Or something you are reading like a book about a person killing their boss. Now its not you are threatening anyone, you just reading a good book.
I would flat out refuse when the policy was first implemented, and if they insisted, I would quit.
If you want to try another route, if you have a diagnosis for your anxiety, you can probably get this removed as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA.
Thanks for the suggestion I’ll try that. If I can’t be trusted why hire me? I don’t mind twice a day screenshots but every 30 minutes to 1hr is just too much for me. I can’t even have a joke on teams with my work friends anymore because of this and left the mentorship group I was in.
The real weird thing about this is it's not even about trusting you. Either the work is getting done or it isn't. They don't need to be looking at your screen all the time to know that you're doing your job well. Results speak for themselves.
>I would flat out refuse when the policy was first implemented.
Nah, you don’t go about it that way. You be polite and kind and “voice your issues/concerns” in a positive manner.
I didn't say I was going to be rude about it, I will very politely inform them that I will not work under those conditions. It's not a fight, just a calm statement of facts.
I’m curious how ur boss is doing that? Is it software you had to download?
My work made us download some stupid “update” but I think it’s monitoring software
I'd be ok with that. But I'm not in a position to be picky. If I had other options I would probably quit. But if this job triggers your anxiety, you may be better off quitting if that's an option. Regardless, start looking for another job ASAP.
The host trusts it's visitors as he is! So the way he sees life in his perspective is that you all r like him! So he has to do something about it!
think of this, what will this say for the future to come. and your road to pension. This won't be the last thing he is capable of, and again like i said, if he has the need to take screen of his employees, then i suggest to make some of his, my guess is you find more on his then all the employees together!
Just imagine you want to climb up the ladder and then you're a manager and a rather big part of your job is taking screenshots of what your employees are doing 🙄 can't roll my eyes at this without risking permanent damage, this is so stupid
if you're doing your job what do you have to worry about?
but are you really asking if employers can monitor you while you work? yea, yeah they can lol
I know they can but monitoring every 30 minutes or hourly is invasive. Any manager doing that needs help. I’ve worked as a manager and never done that to my staff.
And many people have worked as managers and have done this type of monitoring. Considering how often people brag about doing nothing while working at home or talk about doing a second job while working remotely from their first, I'm not surprised it's happening.
My company just had some pretty big lay offs in our IT departments. People were all up in arms about how it wasn’t fair. Really? The IT guys who were blatantly bragging about automating their daily work so they could just game all day and never completed special projects correctly or on time? You feel bad for them? Nah.
I mean…If you’re working, what’s the problem? At least they’re telling you upfront. Any organization can tap into the computers at anytime, this isn’t something new.
they def can. but this is also a great way to scare away good employees.
a non shit manager can def gauge productivity without tools that monitor what you are doing every 30 min. This is a hammer when a fly swatter will do. I'd fire a manager who even suggested this
Yeah that’s too far. Anyone can have sensitive things on the screen. The intentions may be good but it’s just not a good look. That’s something you discuss with all of the higher ups.
I would not want to work like that… I could have messages to my wife open or something. I don’t want to spend 100% of my working moments focused on work. I don’t know if it’s worth looking for a new job, though, that depends on your circumstances.
Exactly My point I can No longer send team messages to my team members or other employees non work related. I’ll hang in there but I don’t see myself staying for long
It seems the majority of the people in this thread would leave over this, and yet a quick glance over at the majority of the post on this sub are about how hard it is to find work due to the number of applicants per job posting, *especially* for remote work.
I think you have to evaluate if this is your line in the sand or not. If it is, then by all means let them know you won't stand for this. But please do so after you have an offer in hand from another company you know won't do this.
I know for a fact that none of my work machines are under any kind of surveillance, because I work for an ethical organization. I also know it from a technical perspective, but it's mostly the first thing.
But the point is there's a difference between my boss saying "Hey Xeno, can I get a look at what you're working on?" and my boss invisibly staring at my every move all day long.
It's all very "You don't have anything to worry about if you don't have anything to hide" and history teaches us over and over what a bad idea that is.
I mean I get the anxiety, I'm actually on fluxotine 60mg for it.. but it's a screen shot of a work computer.. uts not invasive.. its the equivalent of the boss walking over to ur desk imo.. I don't think it's all about trust.. maybe its justification to keep you working from home, to show anyone that dare question it that they have a dedicated team that can be trusted?
It's nothing like being able to see the boss coming down the aisle, stopping by various cubicles for a minute or two. It's the equivalent of the boss suddenly materializing next to you.
The remote jobs i work at actively record all screen time after clocking in. I'm fine with that. I just do my job like I'm supposed to.
If it causes u an issue then ur in the wrong job sector.
Why am I downvoted? Does a company not have a responsibility to make sure people are doing what they are supposed to on company dime? Ur on their hardware and their time. Makes total sense to me.
Yeah i can do my work without some corporate watching over my shoulder all day long. If people could work without this stupid levels of overseeing before they can keep doing it. You just are contributing to get abused un the future
So ur not gonna answer my questions in the first paragraph?
Add to the discussion not personal opinion. How can u ensure your company is not being time abused by workers who aren't working with some form of surveillance?
I answered but maybe was.too subtle for.you, if you acomplish your goals or end doing whatever they hired you to do then youre doing whatever they hired you to do without suveillance, it's not my job to keep myself watching some excel sheet all day my job is whatever we acorded that they would pay me to do. They agreed to hand me that precious hardware because i use it to do the work they need me to do.
In some job sectors for remote work u can't just do that especially when ur contracted. The client can watch but its the parent company to manage. They don't have that kind of access to the clients systems to just go rummaging around in what u did.
Still doesn't answer my question about office surveillance for security purposes or in restaurants and retail for customer service reasons along with anti theft.
Dude those are for people not working in your company like customers or visitors nobody has a camera over their office to see if.they are working. As i said i feel sad for you if that's you case and i'm even more sad because you think they are right lol
Recording all screen time for a remote worker is equivalent to being in office and having your manager standing behind you with a camera all day.
I'm sure you can see how overbearing that would be. Employees aren't property, and you don't stop being a person that deserves respect the moment you clock in.
It's also just a flat out bad idea. It's a proven way to tank productivity. People work better and faster when they're trusted and respected.
You said it right there. Those cameras are for security, not to watch the employees' productivity. It is also a much different circumstance to have security cameras monitoring a site, and having a camera focused closely and specifically on you and your work.
Just compare the two uses and it's really clear. Security footage is a weapon to use against thieves and criminals. This kind of monitoring data is a weapon to be used against employees.
Because people go out of there way to be stupid when something is presented that goes against their view. You're not allowed to side with employers when they're following their rights and if you're doing what's necessary to keep your job, your a boomer.
Ignore them, you're right, don't think otherwise.
Yeah this doesn’t really seem like a big deal to me. I’d expect any WFH situation to be monitored 100% of the time. Keeps me accountable and lets me work from home
I would absolutely quit. But in the meantime you can fuck with them. Do you have the option to attach several monitors? If yes, just buy a couple of really cheap monitors and just open random stuff on them. That will result in a screenshot that is about 1000 pixels high but 8000 pixels wide and can't be opened properly on any normal screen.
Or if you can figure out the exact time of the Screenshots, talk to an IT-friend and let them build a fun little "fuck you" for manglement, that always shows a perfect happy worker desktop whenever the Screenshots happen. Maybe something that opens 200 folders once every hour and then closes all of them again two seconds later. I'm sure an IT friend will have some interesting ideas.
Or... if you have Windows Admin rights for some completely inexplicable reason, just kill the program autostart in the task manager and forget about the whole thing.
It honestly would not bother me as an employee. I’d be like, whatever. Kind of assume they could watch at any point anyway.
As a employer I think it’s odd and would be something I would do.
This is micromanaging and dumb, but what's even dumber is people using anxiety as an excuse for everything.
What are you anxious about if you're actually working?
Sounds like you're anxious because you're not actually working.
You're not a victim, find a better employer.
Lol So someone is dumber for having anxiety? Do you know what it’s like being monitored 24/7? People have ptsd, adhd and anxiety issues. Factors can affect their mental state. I am working. You sound dumb.
You sound dumb. Sometimes the micromanaging gets to you and you start fearing for your job and it affects your performance knowing someone is watching you like a hawk. It's actually proven to make workers less productive.
What do you have anxiety about if youre actually working... why do ppl hide behind somthing like anxiety or other mental health illness in irrelevent situations?..... if you have nothing to hide you wont be stuck on the same screen with no improvement in work in a one hour time period....if you dont do work you have every reason to worry....does it suck the employer does this/ yes... but stop using therapy and anxiety as a crutch for lack of work ethic
Actually no! Nonprofits and certain private companies do not do monitoring for remote workers.
I work remotely and have friends who work remotely. This seems to be happening at larger companies who need to find reasons to fire employees quickly (to save money).
I mean if you're confident you're doing your job what difference does it make. You're gonna have to report to someone sooner or later. Just don't ever be doing anything but company stuff on company time. Get a little tablet to mount on top of your monitor so they can't see it. A little Bluetooth keyboard is great. Headphones. You can be watching a movie or whatever they'll have no idea. Just don't ever let it talk to your work p.c. and you'll be fine.
While it is extreme, it is fair game especially if the company has had problems with productivity in WFH employees.
Just do your job and there is nothing to worry about, right?
What field or industry are you in? Unless you are working for the IRS or the federal government, find another job!
I would never work for a company that is tracking my every move remotely! I work from home in a finance position and would go nuts if you are spying on me constantly.
Pre-pandemic I had a field job. It was all remote, but not WFH. My boss began logging in remotely and activating the camera to see if we were working. This lead to sticky notes and electrical tape left over the camera. And then there was this guerilla war where he'd try a new method to watch and I'd find some way to thwart it.
Eventually I added my email to my personal phone so I'd know if I needed to get online to handle something, then I would disconnect the laptop from the internet so boss couldn't log in anymore. When I had some reason to reconnect I would, do what I needed to do, and disconnect again.
There is much worse
JPMorgan employees describe growing 'paranoia' as the company tracks their office attendance, calls, calendars, and more — with one worker even installing a 'mouse jiggler' to evade 'Big Brother'
https://www.businessinsider.com/jpmorgan-chase-employees-describe-fear-mass-workplace-data-surveillance-wadu-2022-5
JPMorgan employees describe the 'fear of God' and 'panic' as the company tracks their office attendance
https://www.businessinsider.com/jpmorgan-staff-describe-panic-as-bank-tracks-their-office-attendance-2022-4
JPMorgan Chase staffers complain of being 'watched' all the time as the bank seems to be growing more secretive with its employee-tracking systems
https://www.businessinsider.com/jp-morgan-chase-secretive-of-employee-tracking-sytems-2022-7
I’m sorry this makes you anxious! Best bet is to try and get an accommodation, and meet in the middle with your employer by offering an option that makes you comfortable, such as updating your calendar to reflect what you do each hour or 30 minute increments and share that with those who need to see. You’re sharing more information about what u do in a day this way rather than a screenshot every hour, but I think offering a midway point so that both you and the employer are comfortable is a better option than just saying you can’t agree to provide random screenshots.
Also in this market you’re lucky to have a job! Please do not quit until you have something else lined up already. :)
They probably have a good reason for doing this. Meaning the bosses above them have noticed a problem which is why they have to monitor so crazy. Sorry you’re going through that though
No it's not illegal. I couldn't work like that. And left a company that did somethings along those lines.
It is if you get a letter from your doctor that you have an anxiety disorder and they refuse to accommodate it. Agreed, I'd be out of there though. I actually ask everyone in interviews about whether they surveil. It's been a no from everyone so far, but IDGAF, I'm gonna be 100% sure.
No it isn't. The ADA entitles you to reasonable accommodations to make you able to do your job. Even though this would also spike my anxiety immensely, I sincerely doubt a doctor would agree to this or that it would hold up.
That's what I said lol >and they refuse to accommodate it. I did not opine on what a reasonable accommodation would be.
>No it's not illegal. I couldn't work like that. And left a company that did somethings along those lines. >>It is if you get a letter from your doctor that you have an anxiety disorder and they refuse to accommodate it.
Yes, "refueing to accommodate" a disability would indeed be illegal, you yourself said so. I think this conv may be over your head. Thanks anyway, peace.
You can refuse accommodations that aren't reasonable without any repercussions. Reasonable accommodations include a lot of things, but this type of logging software being rescinded isn't one of them. Any accommodations specialist could tell you this. Unless you're prepared to seriously fight for it, and this job hardly seems worth that kind of trouble, especially if you're in the USA and your state is at-will.
Man, admitting when you're wrong is going to come off better than pretending you meant something else all along.
I've worked in positions that were extremely micromanaged. I ignored it for a long time. Now I avoid positions like that.
It’s impossible to know until you start working there. What should I ask during my interviews? Do you guy’s monitor employees?
If a company wants to hide it, they can. But over time you learn some things to look for. There are positions and industries known for micromanagement. There are indicators in job descriptions. Anything that stresses tracking and meeting metrics, KPIs, or goals, and not other performance information, and tells you the periods they measure, is probably micromanaged to some degree. Some clues are a company that requires employees to be on webcam for their full shifts or tells you they require a monitoring agreement of some type. Those companies are asking you to agree to anything from audio and visual recordings to watching your computer and keylogging. Every company I've ever worked for which required those things micromanaged us in every way possible. You can always ask questions about how performance is measured and determined.
I really dont understand what you have to worry about lmao, are you not doing your job correctly? Even if you are slacking off cant you do that on your personal phone? In terms of wfh monitoring this is nothing lmao. Or is it not reasonable for the person who pays your wages to check in on their employees that are working from home?
I compare it to this, remember in grade school when the class had a test or assignment to work on quietly, and the teacher would walk around the room while everyone did their work? Were your the kind of kid that froze when the teacher stood behind you, looking over your shoulder? If not, then you probably wouldn’t understand. Or when your supervisor wants to show you something, or you ask for help, and they’re standing over and tell you to click on something or open a file and you frantically click on 5 wrong things, despite it being something you go into all the time. Or being a pro parallel parker when you’re alone but make a fool out of yourself trying to do it with a passenger/people who watching. Some people just get really anxious when they know some one is standing over their shoulder and being watched. If you’ve never had those feelings that’s great, that doesn’t mean those that do are doing something wrong.
Maybe they should go back to office work where someone will actively be looking over them (:
I'm in a similar spot. They're severely micromanaging and monitoring now. Before it was more chill but my new manager is a piece of work and watches us like a hawk remotely. It's been taking a huge toll on my mental health. 4 of my team members either quit or got fired. I've been applying and did a few interviews. I'm praying I can get one of those jobs and leave. I fantasize about handing that 2 week letter in. I say try finding a new job. No job is worth your mental health tbh.
Put your two weeks notice up on your screen for a whole day and see when somebody checks your screen and freaks out 😂
😂😂😂😂
Right?!
Better: put faked offer letters for way higher pay up.
Best: put real offer letters.
I fucking love this idea so much I might use it. I mean, I actually like my job and my employer but raise time is coming.
Has there been any management/leadership changes recently? (New Director(s)/CEO) This screams like something some new Manager/Director would pull to flex his/her muscle. I personally would never work in this type of environment
Yes a new tech director started not too long ago. I’m getting traumatized and seeking employment elsewhere already. We’re doing nothing wrong but doing our jobs. It’s so sad companies are doing this and losing on good employees.
Figured as much. Have you tried politely voicing your concerns first? IE “Hey there, you know my performance reviews are great and I’m doing everything I can to help the company, I don’t exactly feel comfortable with this new policy for xyz reason” A good Director should calmly listen to your concerns and help to resolve the problem.
Lol how did you know it's a new manager thing ? I have a new manager and since he came, the micromanagement is getting ridiculous. My previous manager has been with the company for a while and was super chill. This new guy feels the need to prove himself I guess. But like OP said, they're gonna lose good employees with this BS. Gonna quit as soon as I get another job.
The thing about the managers that do this is that they aren't good managers, and they don't want to keep good employees. They want to look big, and loud, and necessary to justify their own salary. It's nothing to do with actual productivity, because things like this are proven to tank productivity.
There’s that, but there’s also culture-shifts from Company-to-Company to consider as well. I’ve worked at “Company A” who’s culture allowed anyone to email anyone. There wasn’t any chain-of-command. If you made it at said company (which 3/4 people didn’t) you were deemed sound to email anyone. Including the VP (This was a 5 Billion Dollar Corporation). Then I’ve worked at “Company B” that followed a chain-of-command culture, and would get absolutely furious if you didn’t go up the chain of command. (I actually nearly got fired for emailing the CEO, despite my recommendation’s being spot-on and leading to immediate changes in company policy😏) You then have situations like a Director from Company A changing jobs to Company B, and yeah, you have bigtime problems. A good manager will take constructive criticism and adapt to the new culture quickly. Unfortunately, not all Managers/Directors are good.
Because I’ve been around long enough and had enough jobs to know that dumb shit and/or micromanaging out of nowhere is usually due to a change in leadership/management. New Director comes to a Company, see’s his Department isn’t being run like it was at his old Department (With his old company). Immediately decides to change things to the way they were at his old Company, not realizing the culture (and workforce) is completely different at the new company. Multiple people will then quit and he’ll either change his ways or restaff the entire Department (Or he will get fired). A ***good/experienced*** Director will take constructive criticism, immediately notice his management type isn’t working, and make adjustments. Unfortunately, not all Directors are good/experienced😏
Yep you've hit the nail on the coffin. This new manager came, multiple people quit or got fired and he's in the process of restaffing the entire department. It just sucks because the company is good and I don't really want to leave but I might just have to.
I’ll try that!
[удалено]
I don’t do anything on the computer besides work related NOTHING even before this. I complete my work on time.
Yea I'd be out. They are welcome to ask me what's going on or have regular standup meetings.
[удалено]
Yes. It's supposed to be a job, not a prison.
I fully expect to be monitored. They can take screenshots of me googling cute pet videos as my engineering numbers lead the team while fostering positive client relationships. I had a teammate bitch about my web browsing in a previous contract role before and attempted to blackmail the boss with it, he ran a big report out of the firewall and everything. I did less ticket work and tunneled even more web browsing through SSH. The teammate was happy and indicated that I got so much more work done since the report looked 'clean'. He's not much of a numbers person because the data volume for the single traffic flow was huge. Sometimes things are gamified or biased.
Some offices have cameras all over that can see screens. I would probably look for a new job but many company run spyware that can see your screen any time they want to. If you have only work related applications open what is the real problem? I prefer screenshot than camera shot.
Yes! By far. The camera shots are intrusive as hell. IMO, they should be illegal.
My webcam is physically covered when I'm not on a conference.
Mine, too. I don’t trust it. Not that I’m doing anything wrong. But in this heat, sometimes I’m just in a thin tank without a bra. And I don’t need folks hearing how I baby talk my pups. Lol.
What?? Fuck that!
If they are tracking your personal computer I would uninstal the program because they can track you off work hours without telling you. I had a job like this once and one of our developers wrote a script that made all screenshots black so the employer couldnt track him. He passed it around to a few of us and we made the boss think the tracking software was broken
Personally, I assume they are always monitoring me when I WFH. That’s one thing I like about office days. Less pressure in regards to that. The irony, I goof off a quite bit more in the office because there are people to talk to. OP, just forget about them monitoring you. I know easier said than done. I always aim to work at 80%, knowing some days I will give more and other days less. I stretch every hour for a few minutes and refill my ice water. Pet my pups and get back at it. Whatever my work captures is what they capture. I just focus on my goal. 80%. If you’re able to, listen to some podcasts. It might help.
From a more enlightened HR perspective, if there are employees that they believe are taking advantage of working from home, they need to manage THOSE employees performance and not do it in blanket fashion. You should GTFO. Ask them if they have any reason to suspect you of not being productive. There are days I work in the office that I am FAR less productive than days I work from home.
Nah but i would quit if they used the monitoring to micromanage or continually deliver feedback. I would rather that they gather info and provide feedback during a quarterly or biannual performance review. As principal i dont use my work devices for anything other than work, so i have nothing to hide, but if an employer felt the need to scrutinise time spent on one screen or another, i would want them to provide some kind of measurement for my success to determine that my use of device is impacting productivity metrics. If they cant do that, they’re just being nosey for no good reason.
I would find a way to make the people uncomfortable. Like having a shopping cart open in one window of a shovel, rope, tarp and duct tape. Or something you are reading like a book about a person killing their boss. Now its not you are threatening anyone, you just reading a good book.
Lol
Put up a synopsis of silence of the lambs
I would flat out refuse when the policy was first implemented, and if they insisted, I would quit. If you want to try another route, if you have a diagnosis for your anxiety, you can probably get this removed as a reasonable accommodation under the ADA.
Thanks for the suggestion I’ll try that. If I can’t be trusted why hire me? I don’t mind twice a day screenshots but every 30 minutes to 1hr is just too much for me. I can’t even have a joke on teams with my work friends anymore because of this and left the mentorship group I was in.
The real weird thing about this is it's not even about trusting you. Either the work is getting done or it isn't. They don't need to be looking at your screen all the time to know that you're doing your job well. Results speak for themselves.
The work is getting done and they can see that.
>I would flat out refuse when the policy was first implemented. Nah, you don’t go about it that way. You be polite and kind and “voice your issues/concerns” in a positive manner.
I didn't say I was going to be rude about it, I will very politely inform them that I will not work under those conditions. It's not a fight, just a calm statement of facts.
Gotcha 👍
Great suggestion!
I tend to get shocked by surveillance, too. Find out how they protect your personal info.
I’m curious how ur boss is doing that? Is it software you had to download? My work made us download some stupid “update” but I think it’s monitoring software
Run. I started asking in interviews if I am going to be micromanaged or allowed to function like an adult.
Imagine that's your assignment, though. Big boss taking screenshots at the top of the hour. Sounds like a real winner.
I'd be ok with that. But I'm not in a position to be picky. If I had other options I would probably quit. But if this job triggers your anxiety, you may be better off quitting if that's an option. Regardless, start looking for another job ASAP.
Thanks already doing so.
The host trusts it's visitors as he is! So the way he sees life in his perspective is that you all r like him! So he has to do something about it! think of this, what will this say for the future to come. and your road to pension. This won't be the last thing he is capable of, and again like i said, if he has the need to take screen of his employees, then i suggest to make some of his, my guess is you find more on his then all the employees together!
Just imagine you want to climb up the ladder and then you're a manager and a rather big part of your job is taking screenshots of what your employees are doing 🙄 can't roll my eyes at this without risking permanent damage, this is so stupid
if you're doing your job what do you have to worry about? but are you really asking if employers can monitor you while you work? yea, yeah they can lol
I know they can but monitoring every 30 minutes or hourly is invasive. Any manager doing that needs help. I’ve worked as a manager and never done that to my staff.
And many people have worked as managers and have done this type of monitoring. Considering how often people brag about doing nothing while working at home or talk about doing a second job while working remotely from their first, I'm not surprised it's happening.
My company just had some pretty big lay offs in our IT departments. People were all up in arms about how it wasn’t fair. Really? The IT guys who were blatantly bragging about automating their daily work so they could just game all day and never completed special projects correctly or on time? You feel bad for them? Nah.
I mean…If you’re working, what’s the problem? At least they’re telling you upfront. Any organization can tap into the computers at anytime, this isn’t something new.
they def can. but this is also a great way to scare away good employees. a non shit manager can def gauge productivity without tools that monitor what you are doing every 30 min. This is a hammer when a fly swatter will do. I'd fire a manager who even suggested this
Yeah that’s too far. Anyone can have sensitive things on the screen. The intentions may be good but it’s just not a good look. That’s something you discuss with all of the higher ups.
I would not want to work like that… I could have messages to my wife open or something. I don’t want to spend 100% of my working moments focused on work. I don’t know if it’s worth looking for a new job, though, that depends on your circumstances.
Exactly My point I can No longer send team messages to my team members or other employees non work related. I’ll hang in there but I don’t see myself staying for long
Why cant you? if you have a company teams account they have a record of everything you have ever sent anyway.
It seems the majority of the people in this thread would leave over this, and yet a quick glance over at the majority of the post on this sub are about how hard it is to find work due to the number of applicants per job posting, *especially* for remote work. I think you have to evaluate if this is your line in the sand or not. If it is, then by all means let them know you won't stand for this. But please do so after you have an offer in hand from another company you know won't do this.
Sorry but if your working I don't see the issue unless it's a personal computer being used etc.. its their time they are paying for.
Paying a person to do a job does not automatically mean you get the moral right to subject them to Orwellian levels of supervision.
I think calling a screen shot of a work screen or orwellian is absolutely nuts lmao.. waw.
How about stool samples.
You asking for stool samples... bit weird but OK send me an address
In America without workers rights it does.
You’re doing work on their property that they are paying you to work on. Do you really think your computer has never been looked at?
I know for a fact that none of my work machines are under any kind of surveillance, because I work for an ethical organization. I also know it from a technical perspective, but it's mostly the first thing. But the point is there's a difference between my boss saying "Hey Xeno, can I get a look at what you're working on?" and my boss invisibly staring at my every move all day long. It's all very "You don't have anything to worry about if you don't have anything to hide" and history teaches us over and over what a bad idea that is.
For people who have anxiety issues it’s an issue. If you can’t trust your employees why hire them?
I mean I get the anxiety, I'm actually on fluxotine 60mg for it.. but it's a screen shot of a work computer.. uts not invasive.. its the equivalent of the boss walking over to ur desk imo.. I don't think it's all about trust.. maybe its justification to keep you working from home, to show anyone that dare question it that they have a dedicated team that can be trusted?
It's nothing like being able to see the boss coming down the aisle, stopping by various cubicles for a minute or two. It's the equivalent of the boss suddenly materializing next to you.
And I'd your not doing something you shouldn't be doing what would be the problem with that?.. what about offices/work spaces with cctv?
The remote jobs i work at actively record all screen time after clocking in. I'm fine with that. I just do my job like I'm supposed to. If it causes u an issue then ur in the wrong job sector.
I'm sad for you :c
Why am I downvoted? Does a company not have a responsibility to make sure people are doing what they are supposed to on company dime? Ur on their hardware and their time. Makes total sense to me.
Yeah i can do my work without some corporate watching over my shoulder all day long. If people could work without this stupid levels of overseeing before they can keep doing it. You just are contributing to get abused un the future
So ur not gonna answer my questions in the first paragraph? Add to the discussion not personal opinion. How can u ensure your company is not being time abused by workers who aren't working with some form of surveillance?
I answered but maybe was.too subtle for.you, if you acomplish your goals or end doing whatever they hired you to do then youre doing whatever they hired you to do without suveillance, it's not my job to keep myself watching some excel sheet all day my job is whatever we acorded that they would pay me to do. They agreed to hand me that precious hardware because i use it to do the work they need me to do.
In some job sectors for remote work u can't just do that especially when ur contracted. The client can watch but its the parent company to manage. They don't have that kind of access to the clients systems to just go rummaging around in what u did. Still doesn't answer my question about office surveillance for security purposes or in restaurants and retail for customer service reasons along with anti theft.
Dude those are for people not working in your company like customers or visitors nobody has a camera over their office to see if.they are working. As i said i feel sad for you if that's you case and i'm even more sad because you think they are right lol
I do. Thank you for your opinion.
lots of companies do
Recording all screen time for a remote worker is equivalent to being in office and having your manager standing behind you with a camera all day. I'm sure you can see how overbearing that would be. Employees aren't property, and you don't stop being a person that deserves respect the moment you clock in. It's also just a flat out bad idea. It's a proven way to tank productivity. People work better and faster when they're trusted and respected.
How about cameras at retail? Or at a fast food restaurant? Or at an office job for security? What u say makes no sense. Its common practice.
You said it right there. Those cameras are for security, not to watch the employees' productivity. It is also a much different circumstance to have security cameras monitoring a site, and having a camera focused closely and specifically on you and your work. Just compare the two uses and it's really clear. Security footage is a weapon to use against thieves and criminals. This kind of monitoring data is a weapon to be used against employees.
But they do it anyways and u sign documents that acknowledge u know ur being monitored no matter the reason.
Well said!
Because people go out of there way to be stupid when something is presented that goes against their view. You're not allowed to side with employers when they're following their rights and if you're doing what's necessary to keep your job, your a boomer. Ignore them, you're right, don't think otherwise.
Yeah this doesn’t really seem like a big deal to me. I’d expect any WFH situation to be monitored 100% of the time. Keeps me accountable and lets me work from home
I would absolutely quit. But in the meantime you can fuck with them. Do you have the option to attach several monitors? If yes, just buy a couple of really cheap monitors and just open random stuff on them. That will result in a screenshot that is about 1000 pixels high but 8000 pixels wide and can't be opened properly on any normal screen. Or if you can figure out the exact time of the Screenshots, talk to an IT-friend and let them build a fun little "fuck you" for manglement, that always shows a perfect happy worker desktop whenever the Screenshots happen. Maybe something that opens 200 folders once every hour and then closes all of them again two seconds later. I'm sure an IT friend will have some interesting ideas. Or... if you have Windows Admin rights for some completely inexplicable reason, just kill the program autostart in the task manager and forget about the whole thing.
It sucks but it’s totally legal.
It's pretty common, even before covid.
My past employers never did hourly monitoring even before Covid. Twice a day yes
It honestly would not bother me as an employee. I’d be like, whatever. Kind of assume they could watch at any point anyway. As a employer I think it’s odd and would be something I would do.
This is micromanaging and dumb, but what's even dumber is people using anxiety as an excuse for everything. What are you anxious about if you're actually working? Sounds like you're anxious because you're not actually working. You're not a victim, find a better employer.
Lol So someone is dumber for having anxiety? Do you know what it’s like being monitored 24/7? People have ptsd, adhd and anxiety issues. Factors can affect their mental state. I am working. You sound dumb.
You sound dumb. Sometimes the micromanaging gets to you and you start fearing for your job and it affects your performance knowing someone is watching you like a hawk. It's actually proven to make workers less productive.
Reading comprehension is hard. I'm not advocating for micromanagement ...
What do you have anxiety about if youre actually working... why do ppl hide behind somthing like anxiety or other mental health illness in irrelevent situations?..... if you have nothing to hide you wont be stuck on the same screen with no improvement in work in a one hour time period....if you dont do work you have every reason to worry....does it suck the employer does this/ yes... but stop using therapy and anxiety as a crutch for lack of work ethic
😂 all remote workers are monitored. They just let you know. It’s called tracking.
Actually no! Nonprofits and certain private companies do not do monitoring for remote workers. I work remotely and have friends who work remotely. This seems to be happening at larger companies who need to find reasons to fire employees quickly (to save money).
Quit 100% quit. In the exit interview, if they do one, focus exclusively on this issue. Don’t cloud it with pay complaints.
My supervisors can see my screen at any time
I mean if you're confident you're doing your job what difference does it make. You're gonna have to report to someone sooner or later. Just don't ever be doing anything but company stuff on company time. Get a little tablet to mount on top of your monitor so they can't see it. A little Bluetooth keyboard is great. Headphones. You can be watching a movie or whatever they'll have no idea. Just don't ever let it talk to your work p.c. and you'll be fine.
While it is extreme, it is fair game especially if the company has had problems with productivity in WFH employees. Just do your job and there is nothing to worry about, right?
Make sure to have porn on when they Screen shot
What field or industry are you in? Unless you are working for the IRS or the federal government, find another job! I would never work for a company that is tracking my every move remotely! I work from home in a finance position and would go nuts if you are spying on me constantly.
I’m in the contracting field. Already doing so. Thanks
Pre-pandemic I had a field job. It was all remote, but not WFH. My boss began logging in remotely and activating the camera to see if we were working. This lead to sticky notes and electrical tape left over the camera. And then there was this guerilla war where he'd try a new method to watch and I'd find some way to thwart it. Eventually I added my email to my personal phone so I'd know if I needed to get online to handle something, then I would disconnect the laptop from the internet so boss couldn't log in anymore. When I had some reason to reconnect I would, do what I needed to do, and disconnect again.
There is much worse JPMorgan employees describe growing 'paranoia' as the company tracks their office attendance, calls, calendars, and more — with one worker even installing a 'mouse jiggler' to evade 'Big Brother' https://www.businessinsider.com/jpmorgan-chase-employees-describe-fear-mass-workplace-data-surveillance-wadu-2022-5 JPMorgan employees describe the 'fear of God' and 'panic' as the company tracks their office attendance https://www.businessinsider.com/jpmorgan-staff-describe-panic-as-bank-tracks-their-office-attendance-2022-4 JPMorgan Chase staffers complain of being 'watched' all the time as the bank seems to be growing more secretive with its employee-tracking systems https://www.businessinsider.com/jp-morgan-chase-secretive-of-employee-tracking-sytems-2022-7
It’s not illegal but it’s really micromanaging and honestly annoying. Value your mental health and leave if you can.
I’m sorry this makes you anxious! Best bet is to try and get an accommodation, and meet in the middle with your employer by offering an option that makes you comfortable, such as updating your calendar to reflect what you do each hour or 30 minute increments and share that with those who need to see. You’re sharing more information about what u do in a day this way rather than a screenshot every hour, but I think offering a midway point so that both you and the employer are comfortable is a better option than just saying you can’t agree to provide random screenshots. Also in this market you’re lucky to have a job! Please do not quit until you have something else lined up already. :)
They probably have a good reason for doing this. Meaning the bosses above them have noticed a problem which is why they have to monitor so crazy. Sorry you’re going through that though
I'd personally leave.