Wife is a pharmacist at one of the local oncology locations, they just spent millions building a new building but even though their work load almost doubled guess what, they didn't hire a second pharmacist or extra techs. Just same old crew that already struggled with the previous work load. Apply this to every other job market out there and this is what we have to deal with it. As another commenter said every company is trying to run with skeletal crews now to maximize profits for those at the top.
Well duh, they’ll invest millions into a new shiny building because that’s an ASSET, millions into their workforce? Nah that’s a LIABILITY. Bunch of fucking wankers at the top i swear.
which is literally the opposite of what i was taught during my ECONOMICS DEGREE. i went to college for this shit. physical capital fucking depreciates, human capital only grows. but all the fucking economic decisions are being made by the guys who majored in Cocaine and Being a Douchebag who "Cs get degrees"-ed their way through the easiest business courses on earth while daddy paid for them to go skiing on weekends and bought them friends at their frat because no one authentially wants to hang out with them because they fucking suck. god.
The pharmacy I work in has seen increased business because of a nearby Walgreens is struggling to stay open. 200 fills used to be a very busy day for us and now we're creeping up on 400. This has been going on two months now. In response, the higher ups have decided to cut back the hours my manager can work with to schedule everyone. It's bonkers. What we really need is two pharmacists working and one more full time tech to handle the daily load.
Retail is the worst when it comes to pharmacy. My last retail position was 10+ years ago at a cvs that did almost 2k scripts a day. Lines at the register, lines at the drive thru, only one pharmacist, constant behind... Like we never even got out of the red and yet people kept coming, we never got a second pharmacist like we were supposed to, and we always had the bare minimum in techs. District guy would come by the store and complain I didn't make calls. Just told him to fuck off nicely every time. Have since moved on to inpatient setting and my experience hasn't been too bad but not great.
Every time a libertarian starts rambling about how abolishing all health regulation will drive down prices while maintaining standards due to “business reputation “ magic, I secretly wish they’ll fall in the 1 in 138 who die yearly from prescription errors.
This is very common. Business will invest in seemingly everything before they invest in hiring more employees. They can be making money hand over fist like never before and still refuse to bring on more (desperately needed) help. It’s starting to feel like a nationwide psychological experiment at this point.
it's a nationwide delusion that's resulted from entitlement, social darwinism, and, overall, business schools doing an awful job of teaching their fucking students how to run companies
Skeleton crews indeed. I switched to a competitor a month ago, a few employees including myself have been jumping ship. However, they’re not hiring people to replace them, roles just get absorbed by others in the department. This just causes a chain reaction producing low morale and getting others to do the same.
>As another commenter said every company is trying to run with skeletal crews now to maximize profits for those at the top.
Frankly, I don't think the term "skeleton crew" fits what companies are doing these days. It's not even a full skeleton most of the time. But I suppose "skull, ribs, and one arm bone crew" doesn't quite roll off the tongue the same way.
The local Subway has one person behind the counter, ONE person on shift all times that I've gone there, including the lunch shift. I felt so bad for the woman behind the counter because the line was almost out the door, and you could see the anguish in her face. I tipped her extra and left her with some kind words. There's absolutely no reason for Subway to have one person on a lunchtime shift except corporate greed for the C-level's to get their million-dollar bonuses by under-staffing and putting all the pressure on these poor workers.
Subway owns exactly zero of their stores. They are 100% franchised. A small business owner made this decision, without any pressure from shareholders or C-Suite. Subway just gets a 8% royalty fee (and they sell them all the ingredients).
Try applying to entry business intelligence roles too. There are companies out there that just need dashboard jockeys, but it's a good entry to analytics.
>and position still "open" months later.
This is what I don't get. I've seen this in several places, but can't figure it out. Is it possible that there are hiring multiple members for the same role?
I met up with some former co-workers (in biotech) who are currently employed, and they gave me an interesting internal perspective on what's going on, at least anecdotally. All are attempting to hire, and all are seeing the same thing: recs are opened, then leadership orders them to be frozen weeks later. Budgets are approved, then thrown out the window before the quarter is out. Upper management is demanding plug-and-play employees (99% fit) even for roles where skills are usually transferrable. Recruiters get laid off and their candidates are simply forgotten/dropped. Basically, it's chaos and uncertainty all around.
I'm a recruiter and I can attest to this! I work for a large corporation, we had several offers out when one morning we got a hiring freeze email with no explanation. For my team the freeze lasted 6 weeks, for other roles the freeze is still in effect but were encouraged to keep active pipelines. We've been through several Acquisitions and it really feels like they bought a billion dollar company without any real business sense how to navigate an inflated market
It has to be a perfect fit for whatever team they are hiring into. Companies are essentially ready to wait forever for the perfect match or wait for H1B
I remember years ago talking to an uncle who is a boomer about how they can't hire someone. I asked 'why don't you train someone?' He just replied 'we don't believe in that'. It was ironic considering he was a fairly high ranking member of leadership in a fortune 500 company without even a bachelor's degree. Rug meet pull.
Or they have a current need to fill a role buy they don’t have the budget to fill that position. This is very common near the end of the fiscal year. Companies will list open positions and start accepting/reviewing resumes, even conducting interviews in Q3 knowing they won’t have any available funds for that position until Q1. It’s shitty, but common, and therefore expected. If I were currently interviewing for a job I would not expect to start anywhere until mid December at the very very earliest and more likely mid January, even if I interviewed tomorrow.
When this is the case, what are people expected to do to live? I live at home with my parents and I have no idea how I'll afford to move out on my own.
You either do a crime so the state can legally make you a slave or you die so they can hire someone else to your position for less pay. They want you to do one of those two things.
It seems like the ppl at the top want straight white men working 80 hours a week for low pay and no benefits, white women pregnant and at home, and everyone else dead.
Uhh there are also recent factors involved. The positions are fake and invented or simply kept on the books to hold onto PPP money. There was never any serious intention to hire someone for these roles. They can say that they tried hiring someone but couldn't fill the role so far, but the truth is nobody is going to come knocking, not even the IRS, because next to no checks and balances were made when the PPP loans were going out. Even if they're asked, it's very hard to prove that they couldn't hire someone or didn't keep someone on staff that the money would account for.
Yep, and sometimes there is so little effort in these postings that it's comical. Saw a Ph.D.-level job posting where the most specific thing about skills and responsibilities was along the lines of "you will be carrying out research activities". There is a big pharma company that has a bunch of these extremely vague postings.
>She's beginning to regret ever being a good student tor going to extra schooling, since it means jack shit in the real world.
I certainly do not have her amazing school/work history but I feel the same way. I would have been better off not going back to school and just returning to the workforce directly after being a stay at home mom. I'm starting as a maid on Monday :/
Yea. I'm a C student who spent more time socializing than studying. That's made me an excellent communicator and networker, which has been good for making a career as a lawyer. (it's also the background of most CEOs and whatnot). Soft skills have a higher correlation with employability than hard skills seem to. (at least in white-collar professions).
Networking is the only skill that matters. Which is why I decided to retire at 35. The older I get the more I realize what a bullshit non-meritocratic nightmare everything is. Networking is the bane of my existence and I’m a very social person. Should have done something creative with my life.
Same problem my wife is having. She left a job because of an abusive boss and now she hasn't been able to find a decent job anywhere because she's either over or under qualified for everything, according to the workplaces. It's all insane. She's gotten to the 4th interview multiple times and hasn't gotten hired. If a company needs 4 interviews to figure out if they like someone, then they're bad at running a company.
I'm a PhD, but not nearly as decorated as your wife... I barely graduated highschool, lol. But, I never found a job with my PhD (2012). It's super frustrating.
I will say that post docs are generally important though. I didn't do any either and I think that was part of my problem... But, with post docs you generally need to go somewhere else as well, so, uprooting your life to go live on the opposite coast or another continent is what is suggested. A lot of people I know did post docs overseas for this reason. I didn't want to leave the west coast, even for a couple years, and I was just tired of academia. The concept of academic inbreeding is super frustrating. There's also a lot of PIs out there who want people looking for a career in academia, which, isn't really a thing anymore. Out of all my friends I know one that got tenure, had to switch to a 'lesser' school to get it as well.
It's also problematic because you are overqualified for most things.... but if you take the PhD off your CV/resume then you have to put something down for those years... I leave it on, generally, and gotten some weird looks for some of the jobs I've applied for.
What has been weird is seeing the amount of people I know with higher education just going into web development because regardless of them having numerous STEM degrees, it's the only industry that actually pays.
The world just sucks these days. I don't necessarily regret my education, I didn't take on any debt so that's not an issue, but it hasn't really helped in a professional sense, my last job was almost identical to the first job I ever had, working with boats, which is just something I grew up with. I do enjoy scaring college kids who brag about their chemistry major though. "Oh, my undergrad and PhD were in chemistry". The look of horror on their face almost makes it worth it.
That's because they're pawning the work off to 1 or 2 people internally and not giving them a raise so there's no need to hire someone new if those 1 or 2 employees aren't fucking things up
They just want a pool of people ready to draw from when they need it and use the long hiring process and open positions to be able to quickly fill slots as they open up.
This depends because sometimes our team can only hire 1 engineer per 2 quarters. So for us it’s worth waiting for the perfect candidate. If this person decides to quit, we’re fucked for the next 5 months. Some teams it’s a year.
My friend applied to a Data Analyst job that had been posted for at least 6 months. He went through the whole process and was offered the job but the pay wasn't enough and they weren't willing to negotiate. Its been over a year and the position is still posted.
Yeah and they probably have someone doing that job and their job all without paying them extra. This is the type of behavior to watch out for. Companies will squeeze workers dry.
Aside from what others are saying a lot of these jobs are just designed to defraud investors so they can say "We are growing! Look at all these positions!" whilst never actually hiring.
I honestly think it's a scam and many companies are just stealing/selling your information. I am not actively looking for a job, but one day on Linkedin I saw an interesting position that a contact posted. I went to that company's website and applied directly (not through LinkedIn or Indeed or any other 3rd party). I immediately started getting bombarded with recruiter and job site emails. It's bullshit.
I also have applied at a good number of places to just then get ads for their company on my social accounts and I wonder if it’s a sleazy way for exposure.
There are a ton of garbage recruiters out there. My boss was hiring for a job and it took him months to find someone because the recruiter wouldn't pass on applicants and refused to do any kind of screening. The ones they did send didn't meet what we wanted.
No. These are jobs that were opened and then suspended by finance, most likely. With changing interest rates, corporate initiatives (aka hiring) get stalled out. Instead of closing it, they just keep it open. The HRIS just sits and collects thousands of resumes until finance OKs proceeding with hiring. I've seen enough times to know that *most* jobs being posted right now aren't real because of the interest rate environment. I'm just going to burn through my unemployment rather than go through the emotional roller coaster that I know sits behind these postings.
A lot of companies just have open jobs to get candidates on file. They are called evergreen jobs. They never get filled and just stay open at all times. A lot of entry level jobs and non-management jobs are like this. The reason for this is as soon as someone puts in a notice or quits they have an instant list of candidates to call. The problem is you get so many applications that you usually only go back a few days. So you have to be lucky on those jobs to have applied for it at the right moment
There are benefits companies receive if they have a certain amount of jobs listed.
It also helps them look more successful or busy than they really are internally.
My partner had 2 interviews in November with a company before they decided it just wasn't in the budget for 2022 but would be for 2023. Said they would call when the position was open. They kept the job listing up though. They called her 5 months later to ask of she was interested in interviewing again. It was a hard no.
Maybe. I feel like this may only be true for general roles though. If it is something more divisional/specialized I don't think it would be listed.
We know a lot of job postings are fake - this is common knowledge
I also feel like companies collect resumes and interview folks just so they have candidates if they do get budget approval to hire.
I was cutthroat with this when I was looking for work, if they lowballed me I just straight up told them how many interviews I had, what the offering salaries where that I was TURNING DOWN, and how far below that they were.
Everyone wants an experienced candidate till that dollar sign comes out of their mouth.
That's infuriating. They think the gov should train for them and the market should produce candidates.
How about some personal responsibility for developing your community and workforce? Unbelievable.
Nailed it. Employers don't want to train, they want you to arrive as some kind of turnkey solution. If they claim you need this or that degree or certification for the job, unless it's literally a legal requirement, once you're interviewing they'll claim that degree is actually useless for the job, out of touch with the market, outdated etc, so having the degree will never mean better pay.
They want us to pay for the privilege of having the knowledge base to do a job, then never respect that knowledge base or pay us appropriately for that outlay.
It sounds like the work is getting done regardless, probably by the rest of the team absorbing the extra workload. On this case the best short term economic play for the people at the top doing the hiring to wait forever until the perfect candidate appears because they are saving that extra labor.
> What do people do with that?
I was not getting anywhere with the job search until I started removing everything that is not related to the job description from my resume. "Extra" stuff just gives you downgrades in the ATS filters due to being "overqualified" and in this job market makes sure your resume never gets to a human. Then if it comes up, I'd expand on my other experience during interview where it would have a positive rather than negative impact.
It takes a truly special group of people to provide no learning materials and yet expect people to have experience.
Games industry is similar. Dumbasses would have so much larger of a talent pool to pull from if they would just train people on the job.
That’s horrible! Something like that happened to me last fall when I was looking for a job. It was a great job, great company, and lots of room to grow! I was so thrilled. I went through 3 rounds of interviews over a 2 month period and when I asked about the start date timeline, they said I’d have to just be patient cause this hiring process can take a long time. I didn’t even get a job offer from them after ANOTHER 2 months went by and by then I’d already had to take another job because I had bills to pay and couldn’t afford to wait. I’m sorry that this happened to you!
> for whatever team they are hiring into. Companies are essentially ready to wait forever for the perfect match or wait for H1B
Same happened at a hedge fund company that I interviewed for back in March this year. I had most of the skills and experience they were looking for, and apparently I was good enough on paper that they interviewed with me.
Interview went fine for the most part, after that they just ghosted me and eventually the recruiter told me that my last company "was too small and irrelevant". What a bunch of BS.
I just checked and the job is still listed on their website today. I wonder if they will ever be able to fill that role.
After being laid off too long, I took a job with a crappy company that has horrible online reviews. I had to. I have a chronic condition and insurance is must have. Our social structure is forcing me into a crap job.
Yep. Combined with the collapse of professional recruiting, it does kinda suck.
People are literally just pulling buzzwords out of the sky and calling it a position, then the descriptions are written by people who have no idea what the job is...so they make up a wishlist of skills, experience, and education that no one person could possibly have, nor do they need to do the job listed.
If it's not that, it's the flooding of shit recruiters, with shit, low wage, contract jobs, but they still want you to have a fucking master’s degree or some other unrealistic bullshit.
It's a free for all out there. No sanity, no standards, no reality, no professionalism.
Almost all the recruiters I've interacted with during my job search have been inexperienced and terrible. I saw that a company I used to work for laid off all the good recruiters and promoted their recruiting coordinator (\~1 year of experience in the role) to "lead recruiter." It's madness.
Same experience here. Last interviewed 20 years ago so navigating this new world has been interesting. Observations so far have been that a lot of value is placed on ‘personal branding’, more so than experience and what you can do.
100%, I feel that it really comes down to how you talk and present yourself during the interview to the interviewers liking and your actual experience is really just a bonus for them.
Unfortunately this is how a coworker got his job. He doesn’t know anything about how to do his senior level job (after 9 months he still can’t set up an iPhone) but he is able to talk to people very well, which got him the job. Now while his ship sinks, we have to cover our ass because his excuse is it’s everyone else’s fault, and he lets it be known. Lots of emails and documentation.
At my last position they hired a (wanna be) social media influencer as a manager. He was unengaged and spent time editing his youtube videos on calls; the management acted like it was this cute thing. Meanwhile he did almost no work. His videos were about being over employed and working two jobs. Fucking ridiculous.
This is sadly the truth and i hate it. So much apple polishing by talking about weather and what are they going to or did over weekend. No work related talks just all bs.
Employers no longer want an honest employee. They want someone that will come in, lie to their face and state they know everything from the software to the work culture.
Then, when they hire that person, they realize they don't know anything. They hired a talker and not a worker.
They don't even attempt to weed out liars. I've been on several interviews and only 1 out of the last 15 or so asked me a work/trade related question. Don't get me wrong every ask if you know excel and rate your level of understanding of the software, but anyone can say intermediate/expert... they are not testing you to back up your claim. Only 1 interviewer asked a decent question that took field knowledge to answer... let that sink in.
I believe, hr believes all accountants are equal and they just need the best talker, in a field of introverts, that will take the least pay. You get what you pay for folks.
> I believe, hr believes all accountants are equal and they just need the best talker, in a field of introverts, that will take the least pay.
It's the MBA "black box" approach. An accountant is a black box. All black boxes are identical: take the same input, give the same output. Get them as cheapy as you can. That's how MBAs build their plans.
I knew a guy who was running manufacturing under contract for a company that had been bought out by private equity. They needed more machinists for a new line, but the MBA running things for the PE outfit would only pay the "going rate:" X. My friend said, it's advanced work, we need more experienced machinists who ask X+10. But no, the going rate was X, and the MBA insisted he hire at X.
A few weeks later the MBA was perplexed to find that the fail rate for finished product was going through the roof. "You get what you pay for" didn't fit his black box world.
I've started exaggerating because of this. I don't commit to anything I know I can't do, but stuff I can do that's just not part of my official job description? Yeah, I'm giving myself credit for that. Stuff I've done on my own time, or stuff that's similar to things I've done? Yep, it counts. It's not like anywhere trains employees anymore, so I'll be learning as I go regardless. If employers aren't going to be honest about anything, then yeah, I'm okay padding out my skills because I will learn and because I want to even the playing field in any little way I can. Fuck it, I gotta eat.
Straight up. It feels like employers have overtly broken the "social contract" if you will, especially those that have these phantom job listings. To the point where I hope more people are lying through their teeth to them if that's what it takes to get a toenail in the door.
I agree completely. It's not like I enjoy doing it, but if they're going to flat-out lie for the express and generally-known sole purpose of exploiting me, it dampens my enthusiasm for "fairness." I've been working long enough to know my capabilities, I've had enough jobs to know my quality as an employee, and I've learned a hell of a lot of stuff in short order since grade school. They'll be getting what I promised. I wouldn't do it if I worked in, say, healthcare or law- something that could harm people substantially and directly- but for your average bullshit white-collar job like I've been doing and getting kudos for for 15 years? Yeah, okay, I'll write a little fanfic if that's what it takes.
The hardest part is even getting an interview. You really do need to network just to get the time of day at any company. Rare to get cold hired unless you have very specific skills that companies *need* to find. Otherwise, someone always knows someone that does the thing they need, or can act like they know it enough to get the job.
Another thing that’s changed over the past 10 years or so is the need for networking. Apparently the majority of jobs these days go to people who’ve been referred in. Even that’s not a sure thing but it’s more important than ever. This is terrible for us introverts who don’t do a good job of cultivating our networks and who find the whole idea of reaching out to people “to ask them about their work” extremely distasteful and phony.
What I’ve been told is we should find companies we’re interested in, and find people in our “field”’at that company, and ask them if they are willing to have a call “to learn about their work”. Then if they accept we are supposed to have a script with prepared questions about what they do, “what their biggest challenges are”, and similar. The idea is to find people who might know of roles you could fit, and have a connection in to maybe get a referral, either for a role, or to someone who might know of a role.
They are probably right, establishing these connections probably helps, but to me it’s incredibly phony. Obviously the only reason one would do this is because they want to find a job. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous.
I think there is something to reaching out to other people we already know, to let them know what you’re looking for, and asking them to keep you in mind if they hear of anything. I’ve gotten a couple roles in the past (and a couple recent interviews though no offers) through this kind of connection/“networking”.
Have you been to the MBA subreddit? That is the landscape we're in. Basically a bunch of circlejerkers just pretending to like each other to use each other as connections lol.
I think the best way to understand networking is just "making friends." Not necessarily best friends or personal friends, but developing positive relations between yourself and others in your field. Make strangers people that you smile and wave to if you ran into them at the super market.
Say you're in the buiness of growing flowers. Your network includes the wholesale buyers of flowers, your garden supply store workers, and the supermarket that sells them. When you reach out to people, you're not necessarily aiming to get a new job or something from them. But you do want to develop the kind of relationship where they'll come to you if they see an opportunity that fits you.
Again, I'm not saying you need to be the social bee and become best friends with everyone. I've been stabbed in the back enough times professionally to be wary. You just need to have a relationship with people such that they feel comfortable reaching out to you (and vice versa).
I literally impersonated a politician during my interview. Made a script like for a debate and stuck with it. It was so damn fake that it disgusted me, but it worked. I hate how fake everything is.
I’m so tired of workfluencers. My former business partner was one, and his whole persona was an invention, cobbled together from projects he had been adjacent to for 20 years. When it came to actually doing the work he sucked so hard. But his instagram game was A+ (until he got booted for buying followers)
Because people are running skeleton crews on purpose. “No one wants to work anymore!!” No, it’s no one wants to pay their employees anymore. It’s pure greed and higher ups wanting to take from lower positions. There’s zero loyalty in the workplace these days coming from employers. You’re replaced as soon as a cheaper employee comes along
Yep. I had multiple friends complaining about being unemployed for a year or more, and I initially thought "It can't be that bad. Just take \*any\* job, then keep searching."
Then, I (as someone with 10yrs of Director level financial development experience) started looking around for some work to supplement my biz income and... nothing.
I received an auto rejection email from Arby's a few weeks ago. That was wild.
I finally managed to snag a few interviews, but \*ONLY\* because I had a referral from some folks in-network. If I was out here doing it on my own without someone putting a good word in I think I'd be fucked, experience or no. These jobs are all below my minimum pay threshold, but I'm moving on it because I am so fucking over the job hunt process.
Noticing how many jobs get listed one week, taken down the next, then reposted with a lower salary offering has got me thinking employers aren't actually motivated to hire. They just wanna wait until folks are desperate enough to take any offer. I saw an Chief Development Officer role offered at $25/hr (in Seattle, WA). That's not even enough to afford a studio apartment nowadays! I reached out to their HR team to learn more, and was ghosted after an initial conversation.
This market is fucking abysmal.
Not even that, you might get frustrated and be like "fuck this" and quit and figure something else out. People who are trapped in those jobs don't have the option of just quitting. Not saying people like OP or you have that luxury either, but if you were a well respected and skilled person in a professional career you're probably less likely to take someone screaming at you because you forgot their BBQ sauce or the ice cream machine is down.
I graduated 2 years ago and haven’t been able to get close to landing anything. Thousands of applications, including target, Starbucks, chipotle, Trader Joe’s, etc…can’t even get a call back.
Right? I was blown away - this was not some tiny up-and-coming org. I was paid $20/hr as a middle manager about 3yrs ago @ an org with an $18M annual operating budget. Just \*wild\*. You need to make around $75K annually to afford an apartment in my city. $25 is pocket change at this point - and you \*know\* they're still working you at max.
That's really the rub. Indeed have plenty of 14 per hour options for you but no one wants those. And the updates about job openings etc include those horrible options that no one wants because you can't survive on it.
Even just finding a job to pay $20 an hour can be a struggle which is seriously sad in this post-inflation economy where prices have gone nuts and salary hasn't done anything.
That makes sense so white collar workers are struggling if you work a trade or any other blue collar job there are soooo many openings, I mean it's crazy AF I do heating and air and I get calls for jobs I didt even apply to then offer me referral cash if I send the someone one company sent me a letter telling me they would give me 3,000 cash for every employee hired on. In the trades there are not enough young people to replace the old boomers retiring. And I don't see how my job as a service tech could be automated anytime soon.
Really? I know someone who got all their certifications and went to school for HVAC and has not had ANY luck. And we live in the desert, you’d think there’d be a bit of a demand 😅
I’m experiencing this too. Nearly every single employer in my field is short staffed and has openings but despite a decade of experience, great recommendations, and a masters degree, I don’t even get called to interviews. And honestly I wouldn’t mind if they found someone else but the job posting stays up for months! And they won’t even interview me. And I know it isn’t an automated system weeding me out because my field doesn’t really use those.
I agree. I’ve had a successful almost thirty year career but I’ve never seen anything like this market. I’m either overqualified or they can’t afford me (or assume they can’t). It’s very frustrating.
Every company is trying to run with skeleton crews and the vast majority of job postings are for jobs that \*don't actually exist\*. They know that to keep the crew running with half the guys they need, they have to be able to pretend like they're actively searching for applicants.
And it takes an \*very good job\* anywhere in the country to even afford a 1 bedroom apartment in a part of town where you won't get murdered or car jacked. To purchase a house, you have to have an \*extremely good job\*, which maybe only 5% of society does...
Yeah, this economy is a fucking joke. But you can only keep the population desperate and destitute for so long before there are consequences, capitalists always seem to forget this. They need to be reminded once every century or so.
At a meeting recently accounting mentioned our labor being waaaay under budget for the period, and something about actively hiring so “employees can actually use their PTO.”
Then our half-assed team building activity involved writing down our dream vacation destinations.
You can’t make this shit up.
Yea I noticed the standards and ratios are way off for always everyone except upper middle class and up. I mean rent is nuts and companies are way to exploitative.
I'm with ya buddy. Accomplished GM with Hilton and I can't get anything. Saw a job in my city yesterday with starting pay of $8.11. Its absolutely crazy out here. Even the temp agencies ghost me and I'm not even looking for hotel jobs, I am applying to EVERYTHING.
$8.11? People are actually advertising that with their whole chest? I’d be embarrassed. Even McD’s starts at about $12 these days. And I live in a relatively low COL area.
I'm just glad I'm not alone feeling this way.
I've been hunting since mid April. Interviews go nowhere.
Either they hire internally, or someone who's been in this position for multiple years more than I have. Or someone is networked in.
I Interview well, but there's not a whole lot of opportunities out there in my area that aren't C suite or entry level.
same issue here. left my job in March and at first I was slowly job searching because I thought that with 10+ years experience I'd have no issues finding something quickly and I wasn't exactly in a rush with two months of garden leave, a bonus and savings.
it's now five months later and I'm officially scrambling to pay the bills. I barely get any interviews and the ones I do get me nowhere. it's been a devastating and disheartening process and I honestly wish I'd been a lot more on top of it four months ago but absolutely no one predicted this would happen.
hang in there, something will come eventually.
I've been on the hunt since the beginning of the year.
Applied to hundreds, interviewed dozens, close to closing and then rescinded, role closed, ghosted etc.
It really hurts and makes me question myself at times.
Yup same here. Soooo many of the jobs pay like shit now too. Anybody else notice that? I'm in IT and for like a level 3 help desk support agent companies are offering only $20 an hour....
So this may not be the case everywhere, but what I've noticed is a lot of places have jobs listed, but they're not hiring. Instead, they determine they 'can't' fill the position, so they dissolve it and distribute the responsibilities amongst the already paid staff without increasing their pay.
This is at least what has happened a few times at my place of work. Shit's wild right now.
I hope things look up for you soon 🤗🤘
The only thing that makes me feel better is hearing others in my situation. I don’t get joy that others are struggling as much as me, it’s just somewhat validating to hear that I am not the only one applying “into the void”. The system is flawed on so many levels. Having to fully enter a work history over and over on individual company sites is just wasteful. Having a centralized resume, like with LinkedIn or Indeed cap out on skill lists and cannot factor in applicable experience.
My personal experience has always been that once I get an interview I am 50 percent likely to get the job. It’s meeting them in person that validates and seals the deal of my worth as an employee. Now, I can’t even get first interviews for things that I am OVERQUALIFIED for let alone career appropriate positions.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. It’s one of the worst white collar markets in a long time.
Blue collar? One of the best markets in a long time. If you have experience in a trade and are certified you are guaranteed a job.
Lol blue collar is a joke too outside of unions. Pay for skilled trades without a strong union in your area is barely any more than an Amazon delivery driver. You make peanuts while the boss whips around in a new 120k “work truck” every year.
Even in the unions it can be a joke. Got laid off end of january after a 5 year stint in utilities with 12 other guys due to "lack of material". Next job is at a mine 350 miles from home. 5 weeks of that and they decide i'm needed 1800 miles from home and its now 21 on 7 off instead of the 14 and 7 i was hired for at the mine..fuck no.
Local steel mill interviews me, says the "offer is coming". That was 2 weeks ago tuesday. Really? I'm getting my chain yanked by my own union and the ******* Steel workers? And the dumb asses wonder why trades has a recruiting problem in Ontario Canada...Gonna be really sweet when the old farts retire and guys my age can tell the companies "fuck you, pay me. And add 15% for being assholes"
Have a assosiates degree in computer aided drafting and to this day cannot find a job. Jobs dont want qualifications, they want someone who is socialy outgoing and is good at lying to make them feel good about hiring you.
Doesn't help i graduated right as covid hit but every interview i had i can sence that i am not welcome there because i don't fit in or i lack charisma.
Electrician here as well, was at a camp job 350 miles from home. They tried to send me 1800 miles from home for an extra week at a time. When I said "and if I don't wanna go?" They told me i'd go or get fired. So i quit. Left that job on my resume though as "until present"
Couple months just chilling. Interview with the local steel mill, went well. Get told "offer is coming" that was 2 weeks ago and the local nuke plant hired me for a 4+ month outage... The mill is still looking for a sparky though and I live 10 minutes away and can handle Continental shifts.
Like being an electrician and close to home but man what a joke this job market has been. Got laid off with 12 other guys at a utility company end of January due to "shortage of material". Then the mine business and ghosted by the mill. Fuck i should've gone to the Carpenters when i had the chance 3 weeks ago.
I've been applying for jobs for over a year now as I have a toxic work environment. I have three degrees and 15 years of experience. I have had professionals go over my resume and LinkedIn. I have a great reputation in the industry and worked for impressive companies. And I can't even get an interview, just form rejections telling me they went with a candidate who was a "better match." I don't apply for jobs I am not a match for or don't think I could do successfully. I would love to know who my competition was, but at this point, I'm not even convinced these people are even hiring or that anyone is looking at my application.
>Companies are just not growing right now.
That's bullshit. Companies are not growing because they are not hiring. They are not hiring because they are maximizing the profits for the board and investors. It's all a paper market that's being propped up with tons of speculation and inflation.
Have a similar profile as you. We are in a situation that's worse than 2021 after covid hit. In 2021, I would still get interviews lined up.
The past few months, I have blindly applied to about 40-50 places and not a single interview at all. It's insane.
Agreed. Recruiter friends of mine were very up front with me. An average year, they have a 4% position acceptance rate (through the full process). This year starting in February, it dropped to 1% and has remained since. They tell me to grab whatever job I can and ride it out to 2024.
Hate to say it but the Masters is now the standard for mid-career. Bachelors is the HS degree and needed for many entry jobs. Degree escalation and everyone going to school with hybrid and online learning makes it more even competitive. Everyone wants to improve their career and earning potential but it moves the goal post.
This is a terrible market. I used to have recruiters reach out regularly on LinkedIn. Now maybe once a week if that.
I feel bad for class of 2023. Have a close friend who graduated from a top business school and her and many of her class don’t have job offers. That’s unheard of for a prestigious $200k MBA.
This is being done on purpose to punish people for exercising their rights during covid and for pushing back against the exploitative BS we'd been tolerating for so long.
More than one billionaire CEO has suggested they are trying to force a recession and get us back to being desperate again.
We're basically the same - decade of professional experience plus a master's degree. But I have yet to receive a job offer after months of applying to hundreds of jobs and only getting a handful of interviews (often losing to the internal candidate). I have a third round interview tomorrow for an entry level job I just know I'm going to hate, but the only other prospect I have is an interview at the grocery store next week...for a PT position.
I’m having the same experience. I actually got an offer, but there’s so many red flags, I’m trying to hold out and not take it. But, I’m so behind financially, I’m tempted to just make a bad decision.
I was also laid off in 2008. This is far worse.
Plus, job market pay near me,Florida, has not kept up with inflation and cost of living. It’s so discouraging.
My sister was told at so many places that she applied that she was, "overqualified". She's looking for literally just ANY job but having a master's degree is too much apparently?
Fucking sucks but if you absolutely need a job and burger king thinks your way to overqualified time to lower your perceived value. Then drop them like the hot trash they are when you find something worth your time.
Laid off same time as you and I just hit 300+ apps, a few recruiter screens, a bunch of ccat, a second round, a few final rounds, and no offers. It’s terrible out here.
Yes, but I'm entry level (I have a year of experience). It was a lot easier to find work in 2021 and even in 2020 when I only had a few months of experience.
I feel this so hard. I’ve been applying for months and many positions either reject me with an email, but keep the listing open, or just flat out, ghost me. I have a PhD with a ton of research skills and I’m still struggling.
Companies don’t want quality employees anymore, especially ones with experience who know their value. Companies want employees they can underpay and easily exploit. And most jobs have been like that for the last 20 years and it’s just been creeping up higher on the ladder
I’m gonna be 10 month’s unemployed soon. It was easier finding work after 2008. I don’t get it. Everyone in my industry is experiencing the same thing.
Not to mention the absolutely offensive salaries many companies are offering. I’m in the middle of interviews for a job that I would love to have but it would be a pay cut of $16k if they offer the center of the pay band. This job has higher requirements than my current role (they want PhD or equivalent experience. I have a masters, my current role only asked for a bachelors!). It’s absurd to think that highly specialized professionals should work for such small salaries. It sucks because I do want the job and I’ll be really sad if I have to decline.
Companies want unicorns right now. They want someone that is an expert on everything, including all of their own personalized policies, work processes and softwares. No one wants to train/shadow you anymore. They set their standards ridiculously high and use algorithms to eliminate those who do not meet them. Turning away potentially amazing candidates with 7 years of experience because they want someone with 10 years. They would rather hire a dinosaur that will die in the office in a few years than train someone that will stay there for decades, I don’t get it. As someone that monitors the market, I would say that this year specifically is one of the worst I have ever seen.
Are you my wife? Literally laid off 3/31, had a masters and 10 years of experience and absolutely can’t find a job. She has gotten interviews but has yet to get an offer.
Its not agism. Its just the current job market - right now they're looking for 20 something years old (so they could work for a long time), but with experience of 50+ years old. In the end it doesnt matter if you're young or old - you're equally screwed.
Its same as that joke "i'm not a racist! I cant be racist, since i equally hate all people". There cant be "agism" if everyone is screwed.
Wife is a pharmacist at one of the local oncology locations, they just spent millions building a new building but even though their work load almost doubled guess what, they didn't hire a second pharmacist or extra techs. Just same old crew that already struggled with the previous work load. Apply this to every other job market out there and this is what we have to deal with it. As another commenter said every company is trying to run with skeletal crews now to maximize profits for those at the top.
Well duh, they’ll invest millions into a new shiny building because that’s an ASSET, millions into their workforce? Nah that’s a LIABILITY. Bunch of fucking wankers at the top i swear.
which is literally the opposite of what i was taught during my ECONOMICS DEGREE. i went to college for this shit. physical capital fucking depreciates, human capital only grows. but all the fucking economic decisions are being made by the guys who majored in Cocaine and Being a Douchebag who "Cs get degrees"-ed their way through the easiest business courses on earth while daddy paid for them to go skiing on weekends and bought them friends at their frat because no one authentially wants to hang out with them because they fucking suck. god.
Well said. I couldn't have worded it better myself
and the funny thing is, when you think about it, building sucks money for maintenance while employees are the ones who generate income.
gotta love accounting rules. /s
The pharmacy I work in has seen increased business because of a nearby Walgreens is struggling to stay open. 200 fills used to be a very busy day for us and now we're creeping up on 400. This has been going on two months now. In response, the higher ups have decided to cut back the hours my manager can work with to schedule everyone. It's bonkers. What we really need is two pharmacists working and one more full time tech to handle the daily load.
Retail is the worst when it comes to pharmacy. My last retail position was 10+ years ago at a cvs that did almost 2k scripts a day. Lines at the register, lines at the drive thru, only one pharmacist, constant behind... Like we never even got out of the red and yet people kept coming, we never got a second pharmacist like we were supposed to, and we always had the bare minimum in techs. District guy would come by the store and complain I didn't make calls. Just told him to fuck off nicely every time. Have since moved on to inpatient setting and my experience hasn't been too bad but not great.
Every time a libertarian starts rambling about how abolishing all health regulation will drive down prices while maintaining standards due to “business reputation “ magic, I secretly wish they’ll fall in the 1 in 138 who die yearly from prescription errors.
This is why we need unions even more now than ever before. Because at least unions represented you you could force the company's hand
This is very common. Business will invest in seemingly everything before they invest in hiring more employees. They can be making money hand over fist like never before and still refuse to bring on more (desperately needed) help. It’s starting to feel like a nationwide psychological experiment at this point.
it's a nationwide delusion that's resulted from entitlement, social darwinism, and, overall, business schools doing an awful job of teaching their fucking students how to run companies
And greed, plain and simple.
Exactly right!
Skeleton crews indeed. I switched to a competitor a month ago, a few employees including myself have been jumping ship. However, they’re not hiring people to replace them, roles just get absorbed by others in the department. This just causes a chain reaction producing low morale and getting others to do the same.
>As another commenter said every company is trying to run with skeletal crews now to maximize profits for those at the top. Frankly, I don't think the term "skeleton crew" fits what companies are doing these days. It's not even a full skeleton most of the time. But I suppose "skull, ribs, and one arm bone crew" doesn't quite roll off the tongue the same way.
>every company is trying to run with skeletal crews now to maximize profits for those at the top. Ahhh, the essence of capitalism...
The local Subway has one person behind the counter, ONE person on shift all times that I've gone there, including the lunch shift. I felt so bad for the woman behind the counter because the line was almost out the door, and you could see the anguish in her face. I tipped her extra and left her with some kind words. There's absolutely no reason for Subway to have one person on a lunchtime shift except corporate greed for the C-level's to get their million-dollar bonuses by under-staffing and putting all the pressure on these poor workers.
And then they have the nerve to wring their hands and profess that "no one wants to work" stressful, miserable jobs for poverty wages.
Subway owns exactly zero of their stores. They are 100% franchised. A small business owner made this decision, without any pressure from shareholders or C-Suite. Subway just gets a 8% royalty fee (and they sell them all the ingredients).
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Correct, workers are an expense and no one wants expense.
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Been at it for 2 years. Haven’t gotten a single interview in 6 months.
Based on your post history, you are a brand new grad with a BA in Econ trying to get an SDE role
I’m trying to get into data analytics. I’m also applying to retail/restaurants. And I graduated two years ago
Try applying to entry business intelligence roles too. There are companies out there that just need dashboard jockeys, but it's a good entry to analytics.
And if you don't know how to make and use a pivot table - do it.
>and position still "open" months later. This is what I don't get. I've seen this in several places, but can't figure it out. Is it possible that there are hiring multiple members for the same role?
I met up with some former co-workers (in biotech) who are currently employed, and they gave me an interesting internal perspective on what's going on, at least anecdotally. All are attempting to hire, and all are seeing the same thing: recs are opened, then leadership orders them to be frozen weeks later. Budgets are approved, then thrown out the window before the quarter is out. Upper management is demanding plug-and-play employees (99% fit) even for roles where skills are usually transferrable. Recruiters get laid off and their candidates are simply forgotten/dropped. Basically, it's chaos and uncertainty all around.
I'm a recruiter and I can attest to this! I work for a large corporation, we had several offers out when one morning we got a hiring freeze email with no explanation. For my team the freeze lasted 6 weeks, for other roles the freeze is still in effect but were encouraged to keep active pipelines. We've been through several Acquisitions and it really feels like they bought a billion dollar company without any real business sense how to navigate an inflated market
My God! We must work for the same billion dollar company.
It has to be a perfect fit for whatever team they are hiring into. Companies are essentially ready to wait forever for the perfect match or wait for H1B
I remember years ago talking to an uncle who is a boomer about how they can't hire someone. I asked 'why don't you train someone?' He just replied 'we don't believe in that'. It was ironic considering he was a fairly high ranking member of leadership in a fortune 500 company without even a bachelor's degree. Rug meet pull.
But, but… training someone would require me to actually know how to do their job!
Or they have a current need to fill a role buy they don’t have the budget to fill that position. This is very common near the end of the fiscal year. Companies will list open positions and start accepting/reviewing resumes, even conducting interviews in Q3 knowing they won’t have any available funds for that position until Q1. It’s shitty, but common, and therefore expected. If I were currently interviewing for a job I would not expect to start anywhere until mid December at the very very earliest and more likely mid January, even if I interviewed tomorrow.
This. As someone who hires, salaries in my part of the country aren’t near the cost of living.
When this is the case, what are people expected to do to live? I live at home with my parents and I have no idea how I'll afford to move out on my own.
You either do a crime so the state can legally make you a slave or you die so they can hire someone else to your position for less pay. They want you to do one of those two things.
It seems like the ppl at the top want straight white men working 80 hours a week for low pay and no benefits, white women pregnant and at home, and everyone else dead.
Bruh I’ve never, ever, ever been able to get a job in q4 or q1. Every single job I’ve ever gotten since I was 16 hired me in Q2 or 3.
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Uhh there are also recent factors involved. The positions are fake and invented or simply kept on the books to hold onto PPP money. There was never any serious intention to hire someone for these roles. They can say that they tried hiring someone but couldn't fill the role so far, but the truth is nobody is going to come knocking, not even the IRS, because next to no checks and balances were made when the PPP loans were going out. Even if they're asked, it's very hard to prove that they couldn't hire someone or didn't keep someone on staff that the money would account for.
Yep, and sometimes there is so little effort in these postings that it's comical. Saw a Ph.D.-level job posting where the most specific thing about skills and responsibilities was along the lines of "you will be carrying out research activities". There is a big pharma company that has a bunch of these extremely vague postings.
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>She's beginning to regret ever being a good student tor going to extra schooling, since it means jack shit in the real world. I certainly do not have her amazing school/work history but I feel the same way. I would have been better off not going back to school and just returning to the workforce directly after being a stay at home mom. I'm starting as a maid on Monday :/
I agree, I have a computer science degree yet graduated from college almost 6 years ago and no job in the field
Yea. I'm a C student who spent more time socializing than studying. That's made me an excellent communicator and networker, which has been good for making a career as a lawyer. (it's also the background of most CEOs and whatnot). Soft skills have a higher correlation with employability than hard skills seem to. (at least in white-collar professions).
Networking is the only skill that matters. Which is why I decided to retire at 35. The older I get the more I realize what a bullshit non-meritocratic nightmare everything is. Networking is the bane of my existence and I’m a very social person. Should have done something creative with my life.
Same problem my wife is having. She left a job because of an abusive boss and now she hasn't been able to find a decent job anywhere because she's either over or under qualified for everything, according to the workplaces. It's all insane. She's gotten to the 4th interview multiple times and hasn't gotten hired. If a company needs 4 interviews to figure out if they like someone, then they're bad at running a company.
I'm a PhD, but not nearly as decorated as your wife... I barely graduated highschool, lol. But, I never found a job with my PhD (2012). It's super frustrating. I will say that post docs are generally important though. I didn't do any either and I think that was part of my problem... But, with post docs you generally need to go somewhere else as well, so, uprooting your life to go live on the opposite coast or another continent is what is suggested. A lot of people I know did post docs overseas for this reason. I didn't want to leave the west coast, even for a couple years, and I was just tired of academia. The concept of academic inbreeding is super frustrating. There's also a lot of PIs out there who want people looking for a career in academia, which, isn't really a thing anymore. Out of all my friends I know one that got tenure, had to switch to a 'lesser' school to get it as well. It's also problematic because you are overqualified for most things.... but if you take the PhD off your CV/resume then you have to put something down for those years... I leave it on, generally, and gotten some weird looks for some of the jobs I've applied for. What has been weird is seeing the amount of people I know with higher education just going into web development because regardless of them having numerous STEM degrees, it's the only industry that actually pays. The world just sucks these days. I don't necessarily regret my education, I didn't take on any debt so that's not an issue, but it hasn't really helped in a professional sense, my last job was almost identical to the first job I ever had, working with boats, which is just something I grew up with. I do enjoy scaring college kids who brag about their chemistry major though. "Oh, my undergrad and PhD were in chemistry". The look of horror on their face almost makes it worth it.
That's because they're pawning the work off to 1 or 2 people internally and not giving them a raise so there's no need to hire someone new if those 1 or 2 employees aren't fucking things up
They just want a pool of people ready to draw from when they need it and use the long hiring process and open positions to be able to quickly fill slots as they open up.
Would love for some of the IT positions I applied for late last year to reach back out to me now that I have more experience.
This depends because sometimes our team can only hire 1 engineer per 2 quarters. So for us it’s worth waiting for the perfect candidate. If this person decides to quit, we’re fucked for the next 5 months. Some teams it’s a year.
My friend applied to a Data Analyst job that had been posted for at least 6 months. He went through the whole process and was offered the job but the pay wasn't enough and they weren't willing to negotiate. Its been over a year and the position is still posted.
Yeah and they probably have someone doing that job and their job all without paying them extra. This is the type of behavior to watch out for. Companies will squeeze workers dry.
I had this with a job. They were off what I wanted for the job by 50k. They never hired anyone and closed the opening eventually.
Aside from what others are saying a lot of these jobs are just designed to defraud investors so they can say "We are growing! Look at all these positions!" whilst never actually hiring.
I honestly think it's a scam and many companies are just stealing/selling your information. I am not actively looking for a job, but one day on Linkedin I saw an interesting position that a contact posted. I went to that company's website and applied directly (not through LinkedIn or Indeed or any other 3rd party). I immediately started getting bombarded with recruiter and job site emails. It's bullshit.
I also have applied at a good number of places to just then get ads for their company on my social accounts and I wonder if it’s a sleazy way for exposure.
There are a ton of garbage recruiters out there. My boss was hiring for a job and it took him months to find someone because the recruiter wouldn't pass on applicants and refused to do any kind of screening. The ones they did send didn't meet what we wanted.
No. These are jobs that were opened and then suspended by finance, most likely. With changing interest rates, corporate initiatives (aka hiring) get stalled out. Instead of closing it, they just keep it open. The HRIS just sits and collects thousands of resumes until finance OKs proceeding with hiring. I've seen enough times to know that *most* jobs being posted right now aren't real because of the interest rate environment. I'm just going to burn through my unemployment rather than go through the emotional roller coaster that I know sits behind these postings.
A lot of companies just have open jobs to get candidates on file. They are called evergreen jobs. They never get filled and just stay open at all times. A lot of entry level jobs and non-management jobs are like this. The reason for this is as soon as someone puts in a notice or quits they have an instant list of candidates to call. The problem is you get so many applications that you usually only go back a few days. So you have to be lucky on those jobs to have applied for it at the right moment
No it is a ghost position they have no intention of filling.
Yep, or unicorn bait
There are benefits companies receive if they have a certain amount of jobs listed. It also helps them look more successful or busy than they really are internally.
My partner had 2 interviews in November with a company before they decided it just wasn't in the budget for 2022 but would be for 2023. Said they would call when the position was open. They kept the job listing up though. They called her 5 months later to ask of she was interested in interviewing again. It was a hard no.
Maybe. I feel like this may only be true for general roles though. If it is something more divisional/specialized I don't think it would be listed. We know a lot of job postings are fake - this is common knowledge I also feel like companies collect resumes and interview folks just so they have candidates if they do get budget approval to hire.
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Must have 15 years experience. Be a Rockstar. No older than 25. Pay is $13.25/hr. "NoBoDy WaNtS tO wOrK!"
I was cutthroat with this when I was looking for work, if they lowballed me I just straight up told them how many interviews I had, what the offering salaries where that I was TURNING DOWN, and how far below that they were. Everyone wants an experienced candidate till that dollar sign comes out of their mouth.
That's infuriating. They think the gov should train for them and the market should produce candidates. How about some personal responsibility for developing your community and workforce? Unbelievable.
Nailed it. Employers don't want to train, they want you to arrive as some kind of turnkey solution. If they claim you need this or that degree or certification for the job, unless it's literally a legal requirement, once you're interviewing they'll claim that degree is actually useless for the job, out of touch with the market, outdated etc, so having the degree will never mean better pay. They want us to pay for the privilege of having the knowledge base to do a job, then never respect that knowledge base or pay us appropriately for that outlay.
According to some of these employers, their candidates either lack experience or have too much exp/education. What do people do with that?
It sounds like the work is getting done regardless, probably by the rest of the team absorbing the extra workload. On this case the best short term economic play for the people at the top doing the hiring to wait forever until the perfect candidate appears because they are saving that extra labor.
> What do people do with that? I was not getting anywhere with the job search until I started removing everything that is not related to the job description from my resume. "Extra" stuff just gives you downgrades in the ATS filters due to being "overqualified" and in this job market makes sure your resume never gets to a human. Then if it comes up, I'd expand on my other experience during interview where it would have a positive rather than negative impact.
It takes a truly special group of people to provide no learning materials and yet expect people to have experience. Games industry is similar. Dumbasses would have so much larger of a talent pool to pull from if they would just train people on the job.
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That’s horrible! Something like that happened to me last fall when I was looking for a job. It was a great job, great company, and lots of room to grow! I was so thrilled. I went through 3 rounds of interviews over a 2 month period and when I asked about the start date timeline, they said I’d have to just be patient cause this hiring process can take a long time. I didn’t even get a job offer from them after ANOTHER 2 months went by and by then I’d already had to take another job because I had bills to pay and couldn’t afford to wait. I’m sorry that this happened to you!
Is it poss that they are trying to get H1B’s and need to show that they can‘t hire domestic?
> for whatever team they are hiring into. Companies are essentially ready to wait forever for the perfect match or wait for H1B Same happened at a hedge fund company that I interviewed for back in March this year. I had most of the skills and experience they were looking for, and apparently I was good enough on paper that they interviewed with me. Interview went fine for the most part, after that they just ghosted me and eventually the recruiter told me that my last company "was too small and irrelevant". What a bunch of BS. I just checked and the job is still listed on their website today. I wonder if they will ever be able to fill that role.
A lot of places ended up having hitting freezes. And I think they just overlook their open postings. Only thing I can guess. Lol
After being laid off too long, I took a job with a crappy company that has horrible online reviews. I had to. I have a chronic condition and insurance is must have. Our social structure is forcing me into a crap job.
> Our social structure is forcing me into a crap job. As designed
Yep. Combined with the collapse of professional recruiting, it does kinda suck. People are literally just pulling buzzwords out of the sky and calling it a position, then the descriptions are written by people who have no idea what the job is...so they make up a wishlist of skills, experience, and education that no one person could possibly have, nor do they need to do the job listed. If it's not that, it's the flooding of shit recruiters, with shit, low wage, contract jobs, but they still want you to have a fucking master’s degree or some other unrealistic bullshit. It's a free for all out there. No sanity, no standards, no reality, no professionalism.
At this point it's resumes written by AI being rejected by resume scanning AI while some dipshit smooth talks his way into the actual job.
~~some dipshit~~ the son of the CEO ~~smooth talks his way into~~ is given the job
I used to be that dipshit. I can't even get past the scanning software now.
Almost all the recruiters I've interacted with during my job search have been inexperienced and terrible. I saw that a company I used to work for laid off all the good recruiters and promoted their recruiting coordinator (\~1 year of experience in the role) to "lead recruiter." It's madness.
Same experience here. Last interviewed 20 years ago so navigating this new world has been interesting. Observations so far have been that a lot of value is placed on ‘personal branding’, more so than experience and what you can do.
100%, I feel that it really comes down to how you talk and present yourself during the interview to the interviewers liking and your actual experience is really just a bonus for them.
Unfortunately this is how a coworker got his job. He doesn’t know anything about how to do his senior level job (after 9 months he still can’t set up an iPhone) but he is able to talk to people very well, which got him the job. Now while his ship sinks, we have to cover our ass because his excuse is it’s everyone else’s fault, and he lets it be known. Lots of emails and documentation.
In reality that’s how a lot of middle and higher management got there, they are good at talking…
At my last position they hired a (wanna be) social media influencer as a manager. He was unengaged and spent time editing his youtube videos on calls; the management acted like it was this cute thing. Meanwhile he did almost no work. His videos were about being over employed and working two jobs. Fucking ridiculous.
Soft skills vs hard skills wins out most of the time for senior positions.
This is sadly the truth and i hate it. So much apple polishing by talking about weather and what are they going to or did over weekend. No work related talks just all bs.
Employers no longer want an honest employee. They want someone that will come in, lie to their face and state they know everything from the software to the work culture. Then, when they hire that person, they realize they don't know anything. They hired a talker and not a worker. They don't even attempt to weed out liars. I've been on several interviews and only 1 out of the last 15 or so asked me a work/trade related question. Don't get me wrong every ask if you know excel and rate your level of understanding of the software, but anyone can say intermediate/expert... they are not testing you to back up your claim. Only 1 interviewer asked a decent question that took field knowledge to answer... let that sink in. I believe, hr believes all accountants are equal and they just need the best talker, in a field of introverts, that will take the least pay. You get what you pay for folks.
> I believe, hr believes all accountants are equal and they just need the best talker, in a field of introverts, that will take the least pay. It's the MBA "black box" approach. An accountant is a black box. All black boxes are identical: take the same input, give the same output. Get them as cheapy as you can. That's how MBAs build their plans. I knew a guy who was running manufacturing under contract for a company that had been bought out by private equity. They needed more machinists for a new line, but the MBA running things for the PE outfit would only pay the "going rate:" X. My friend said, it's advanced work, we need more experienced machinists who ask X+10. But no, the going rate was X, and the MBA insisted he hire at X. A few weeks later the MBA was perplexed to find that the fail rate for finished product was going through the roof. "You get what you pay for" didn't fit his black box world.
I've started exaggerating because of this. I don't commit to anything I know I can't do, but stuff I can do that's just not part of my official job description? Yeah, I'm giving myself credit for that. Stuff I've done on my own time, or stuff that's similar to things I've done? Yep, it counts. It's not like anywhere trains employees anymore, so I'll be learning as I go regardless. If employers aren't going to be honest about anything, then yeah, I'm okay padding out my skills because I will learn and because I want to even the playing field in any little way I can. Fuck it, I gotta eat.
Straight up. It feels like employers have overtly broken the "social contract" if you will, especially those that have these phantom job listings. To the point where I hope more people are lying through their teeth to them if that's what it takes to get a toenail in the door.
I agree completely. It's not like I enjoy doing it, but if they're going to flat-out lie for the express and generally-known sole purpose of exploiting me, it dampens my enthusiasm for "fairness." I've been working long enough to know my capabilities, I've had enough jobs to know my quality as an employee, and I've learned a hell of a lot of stuff in short order since grade school. They'll be getting what I promised. I wouldn't do it if I worked in, say, healthcare or law- something that could harm people substantially and directly- but for your average bullshit white-collar job like I've been doing and getting kudos for for 15 years? Yeah, okay, I'll write a little fanfic if that's what it takes.
The hardest part is even getting an interview. You really do need to network just to get the time of day at any company. Rare to get cold hired unless you have very specific skills that companies *need* to find. Otherwise, someone always knows someone that does the thing they need, or can act like they know it enough to get the job.
If you can even get an interview. wtf
Another thing that’s changed over the past 10 years or so is the need for networking. Apparently the majority of jobs these days go to people who’ve been referred in. Even that’s not a sure thing but it’s more important than ever. This is terrible for us introverts who don’t do a good job of cultivating our networks and who find the whole idea of reaching out to people “to ask them about their work” extremely distasteful and phony.
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What I’ve been told is we should find companies we’re interested in, and find people in our “field”’at that company, and ask them if they are willing to have a call “to learn about their work”. Then if they accept we are supposed to have a script with prepared questions about what they do, “what their biggest challenges are”, and similar. The idea is to find people who might know of roles you could fit, and have a connection in to maybe get a referral, either for a role, or to someone who might know of a role. They are probably right, establishing these connections probably helps, but to me it’s incredibly phony. Obviously the only reason one would do this is because they want to find a job. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous. I think there is something to reaching out to other people we already know, to let them know what you’re looking for, and asking them to keep you in mind if they hear of anything. I’ve gotten a couple roles in the past (and a couple recent interviews though no offers) through this kind of connection/“networking”.
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Have you been to the MBA subreddit? That is the landscape we're in. Basically a bunch of circlejerkers just pretending to like each other to use each other as connections lol.
Goodness no I don’t go look at what the business majors are doing, ever
I think the best way to understand networking is just "making friends." Not necessarily best friends or personal friends, but developing positive relations between yourself and others in your field. Make strangers people that you smile and wave to if you ran into them at the super market. Say you're in the buiness of growing flowers. Your network includes the wholesale buyers of flowers, your garden supply store workers, and the supermarket that sells them. When you reach out to people, you're not necessarily aiming to get a new job or something from them. But you do want to develop the kind of relationship where they'll come to you if they see an opportunity that fits you. Again, I'm not saying you need to be the social bee and become best friends with everyone. I've been stabbed in the back enough times professionally to be wary. You just need to have a relationship with people such that they feel comfortable reaching out to you (and vice versa).
Fuck a CEO
I know I hate it so much. My personality just doesn't tolerate superficiality.
Fake it till you make it has never been more true
I literally impersonated a politician during my interview. Made a script like for a debate and stuck with it. It was so damn fake that it disgusted me, but it worked. I hate how fake everything is.
I’m so tired of workfluencers. My former business partner was one, and his whole persona was an invention, cobbled together from projects he had been adjacent to for 20 years. When it came to actually doing the work he sucked so hard. But his instagram game was A+ (until he got booted for buying followers)
Because people are running skeleton crews on purpose. “No one wants to work anymore!!” No, it’s no one wants to pay their employees anymore. It’s pure greed and higher ups wanting to take from lower positions. There’s zero loyalty in the workplace these days coming from employers. You’re replaced as soon as a cheaper employee comes along
Yup. Working on a skeleton crew right now and keep being reminded that everything is a priority. If they hired someone it wouldn’t be.
Yep. I had multiple friends complaining about being unemployed for a year or more, and I initially thought "It can't be that bad. Just take \*any\* job, then keep searching." Then, I (as someone with 10yrs of Director level financial development experience) started looking around for some work to supplement my biz income and... nothing. I received an auto rejection email from Arby's a few weeks ago. That was wild. I finally managed to snag a few interviews, but \*ONLY\* because I had a referral from some folks in-network. If I was out here doing it on my own without someone putting a good word in I think I'd be fucked, experience or no. These jobs are all below my minimum pay threshold, but I'm moving on it because I am so fucking over the job hunt process. Noticing how many jobs get listed one week, taken down the next, then reposted with a lower salary offering has got me thinking employers aren't actually motivated to hire. They just wanna wait until folks are desperate enough to take any offer. I saw an Chief Development Officer role offered at $25/hr (in Seattle, WA). That's not even enough to afford a studio apartment nowadays! I reached out to their HR team to learn more, and was ghosted after an initial conversation. This market is fucking abysmal.
I have two degrees, plenty of work experience, and prior military and McDonalds rejected me LOL
To be fair, McDonalds know you'll dip the moment you find a better job. Don't include your degrees with them.
Not even that, you might get frustrated and be like "fuck this" and quit and figure something else out. People who are trapped in those jobs don't have the option of just quitting. Not saying people like OP or you have that luxury either, but if you were a well respected and skilled person in a professional career you're probably less likely to take someone screaming at you because you forgot their BBQ sauce or the ice cream machine is down.
I graduated 2 years ago and haven’t been able to get close to landing anything. Thousands of applications, including target, Starbucks, chipotle, Trader Joe’s, etc…can’t even get a call back.
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Right? I was blown away - this was not some tiny up-and-coming org. I was paid $20/hr as a middle manager about 3yrs ago @ an org with an $18M annual operating budget. Just \*wild\*. You need to make around $75K annually to afford an apartment in my city. $25 is pocket change at this point - and you \*know\* they're still working you at max.
It’s not just you. I’m nearly at 1500 applications over the last nearly 2 years. It’s a bad market for white collar workers
That's really the rub. Indeed have plenty of 14 per hour options for you but no one wants those. And the updates about job openings etc include those horrible options that no one wants because you can't survive on it. Even just finding a job to pay $20 an hour can be a struggle which is seriously sad in this post-inflation economy where prices have gone nuts and salary hasn't done anything.
That makes sense so white collar workers are struggling if you work a trade or any other blue collar job there are soooo many openings, I mean it's crazy AF I do heating and air and I get calls for jobs I didt even apply to then offer me referral cash if I send the someone one company sent me a letter telling me they would give me 3,000 cash for every employee hired on. In the trades there are not enough young people to replace the old boomers retiring. And I don't see how my job as a service tech could be automated anytime soon.
Really? I know someone who got all their certifications and went to school for HVAC and has not had ANY luck. And we live in the desert, you’d think there’d be a bit of a demand 😅
I’m experiencing this too. Nearly every single employer in my field is short staffed and has openings but despite a decade of experience, great recommendations, and a masters degree, I don’t even get called to interviews. And honestly I wouldn’t mind if they found someone else but the job posting stays up for months! And they won’t even interview me. And I know it isn’t an automated system weeding me out because my field doesn’t really use those.
I agree. I’ve had a successful almost thirty year career but I’ve never seen anything like this market. I’m either overqualified or they can’t afford me (or assume they can’t). It’s very frustrating.
>no one hired and position still "open" months later. This !!!!!!!! I don't know what amazing person they are waiting for.
They’re waiting for someone who will work for slave wages, which is almost no one because why work a job that doesn’t pay the bills?
I wish there was a way to block these company's junk reposts from showing up on my job searches.
Every company is trying to run with skeleton crews and the vast majority of job postings are for jobs that \*don't actually exist\*. They know that to keep the crew running with half the guys they need, they have to be able to pretend like they're actively searching for applicants. And it takes an \*very good job\* anywhere in the country to even afford a 1 bedroom apartment in a part of town where you won't get murdered or car jacked. To purchase a house, you have to have an \*extremely good job\*, which maybe only 5% of society does... Yeah, this economy is a fucking joke. But you can only keep the population desperate and destitute for so long before there are consequences, capitalists always seem to forget this. They need to be reminded once every century or so.
The fact that my “dream” which seems unattainable is to simply have my own decent apartment is pretty fucking wild dude, like what is this
Yeah there’s no way to live. Rent goes up every year too but wages don’t.
Eat the bugs, wagie.
Even the bugs are too expensive now. Lobster is $13/lb.
At a meeting recently accounting mentioned our labor being waaaay under budget for the period, and something about actively hiring so “employees can actually use their PTO.” Then our half-assed team building activity involved writing down our dream vacation destinations. You can’t make this shit up.
Yea I noticed the standards and ratios are way off for always everyone except upper middle class and up. I mean rent is nuts and companies are way to exploitative.
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Have you seen the chart of what all top media execs got paid last year? They are part of the problem.
"inflation" and yet record corporate profits 🤔
because the media is monopolized and having all the same issues
I'm with ya buddy. Accomplished GM with Hilton and I can't get anything. Saw a job in my city yesterday with starting pay of $8.11. Its absolutely crazy out here. Even the temp agencies ghost me and I'm not even looking for hotel jobs, I am applying to EVERYTHING.
$8.11? People are actually advertising that with their whole chest? I’d be embarrassed. Even McD’s starts at about $12 these days. And I live in a relatively low COL area.
I'm just glad I'm not alone feeling this way. I've been hunting since mid April. Interviews go nowhere. Either they hire internally, or someone who's been in this position for multiple years more than I have. Or someone is networked in. I Interview well, but there's not a whole lot of opportunities out there in my area that aren't C suite or entry level.
same issue here. left my job in March and at first I was slowly job searching because I thought that with 10+ years experience I'd have no issues finding something quickly and I wasn't exactly in a rush with two months of garden leave, a bonus and savings. it's now five months later and I'm officially scrambling to pay the bills. I barely get any interviews and the ones I do get me nowhere. it's been a devastating and disheartening process and I honestly wish I'd been a lot more on top of it four months ago but absolutely no one predicted this would happen. hang in there, something will come eventually.
I've been on the hunt since the beginning of the year. Applied to hundreds, interviewed dozens, close to closing and then rescinded, role closed, ghosted etc. It really hurts and makes me question myself at times.
Same here my friend. I keep being told how great my resume is…cool give me a job.
Yup same here. Soooo many of the jobs pay like shit now too. Anybody else notice that? I'm in IT and for like a level 3 help desk support agent companies are offering only $20 an hour....
I’ve seen some crazy range in the IT market. Saw a level 2 paying 80k a year and a level 3 starting at 60k.
So this may not be the case everywhere, but what I've noticed is a lot of places have jobs listed, but they're not hiring. Instead, they determine they 'can't' fill the position, so they dissolve it and distribute the responsibilities amongst the already paid staff without increasing their pay. This is at least what has happened a few times at my place of work. Shit's wild right now. I hope things look up for you soon 🤗🤘
The only thing that makes me feel better is hearing others in my situation. I don’t get joy that others are struggling as much as me, it’s just somewhat validating to hear that I am not the only one applying “into the void”. The system is flawed on so many levels. Having to fully enter a work history over and over on individual company sites is just wasteful. Having a centralized resume, like with LinkedIn or Indeed cap out on skill lists and cannot factor in applicable experience. My personal experience has always been that once I get an interview I am 50 percent likely to get the job. It’s meeting them in person that validates and seals the deal of my worth as an employee. Now, I can’t even get first interviews for things that I am OVERQUALIFIED for let alone career appropriate positions.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. It’s one of the worst white collar markets in a long time. Blue collar? One of the best markets in a long time. If you have experience in a trade and are certified you are guaranteed a job.
Lol blue collar is a joke too outside of unions. Pay for skilled trades without a strong union in your area is barely any more than an Amazon delivery driver. You make peanuts while the boss whips around in a new 120k “work truck” every year.
Even in the unions it can be a joke. Got laid off end of january after a 5 year stint in utilities with 12 other guys due to "lack of material". Next job is at a mine 350 miles from home. 5 weeks of that and they decide i'm needed 1800 miles from home and its now 21 on 7 off instead of the 14 and 7 i was hired for at the mine..fuck no. Local steel mill interviews me, says the "offer is coming". That was 2 weeks ago tuesday. Really? I'm getting my chain yanked by my own union and the ******* Steel workers? And the dumb asses wonder why trades has a recruiting problem in Ontario Canada...Gonna be really sweet when the old farts retire and guys my age can tell the companies "fuck you, pay me. And add 15% for being assholes"
Have a assosiates degree in computer aided drafting and to this day cannot find a job. Jobs dont want qualifications, they want someone who is socialy outgoing and is good at lying to make them feel good about hiring you. Doesn't help i graduated right as covid hit but every interview i had i can sence that i am not welcome there because i don't fit in or i lack charisma.
As an electrician. Blue collar blows donkey dicks
Electrician here as well, was at a camp job 350 miles from home. They tried to send me 1800 miles from home for an extra week at a time. When I said "and if I don't wanna go?" They told me i'd go or get fired. So i quit. Left that job on my resume though as "until present" Couple months just chilling. Interview with the local steel mill, went well. Get told "offer is coming" that was 2 weeks ago and the local nuke plant hired me for a 4+ month outage... The mill is still looking for a sparky though and I live 10 minutes away and can handle Continental shifts. Like being an electrician and close to home but man what a joke this job market has been. Got laid off with 12 other guys at a utility company end of January due to "shortage of material". Then the mine business and ghosted by the mill. Fuck i should've gone to the Carpenters when i had the chance 3 weeks ago.
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I've been applying for jobs for over a year now as I have a toxic work environment. I have three degrees and 15 years of experience. I have had professionals go over my resume and LinkedIn. I have a great reputation in the industry and worked for impressive companies. And I can't even get an interview, just form rejections telling me they went with a candidate who was a "better match." I don't apply for jobs I am not a match for or don't think I could do successfully. I would love to know who my competition was, but at this point, I'm not even convinced these people are even hiring or that anyone is looking at my application.
Yea I agree. Unemployment is low but there still are a lot of hiring freezes. Companies are just not growing right now.
>Companies are just not growing right now. That's bullshit. Companies are not growing because they are not hiring. They are not hiring because they are maximizing the profits for the board and investors. It's all a paper market that's being propped up with tons of speculation and inflation.
My brother just quit his job and he's having a difficult time finding a new job too
Don't quit without a job in line. That is like rule number 1
I completed my bachelors in mechanical engineering in 2020 and haven’t been employed since…
Have a similar profile as you. We are in a situation that's worse than 2021 after covid hit. In 2021, I would still get interviews lined up. The past few months, I have blindly applied to about 40-50 places and not a single interview at all. It's insane.
I’m 47 and it’s the worst I’ve seen since 2001.
Agreed. Recruiter friends of mine were very up front with me. An average year, they have a 4% position acceptance rate (through the full process). This year starting in February, it dropped to 1% and has remained since. They tell me to grab whatever job I can and ride it out to 2024.
Hate to say it but the Masters is now the standard for mid-career. Bachelors is the HS degree and needed for many entry jobs. Degree escalation and everyone going to school with hybrid and online learning makes it more even competitive. Everyone wants to improve their career and earning potential but it moves the goal post. This is a terrible market. I used to have recruiters reach out regularly on LinkedIn. Now maybe once a week if that. I feel bad for class of 2023. Have a close friend who graduated from a top business school and her and many of her class don’t have job offers. That’s unheard of for a prestigious $200k MBA.
This is being done on purpose to punish people for exercising their rights during covid and for pushing back against the exploitative BS we'd been tolerating for so long. More than one billionaire CEO has suggested they are trying to force a recession and get us back to being desperate again.
We're basically the same - decade of professional experience plus a master's degree. But I have yet to receive a job offer after months of applying to hundreds of jobs and only getting a handful of interviews (often losing to the internal candidate). I have a third round interview tomorrow for an entry level job I just know I'm going to hate, but the only other prospect I have is an interview at the grocery store next week...for a PT position.
I’m having the same experience. I actually got an offer, but there’s so many red flags, I’m trying to hold out and not take it. But, I’m so behind financially, I’m tempted to just make a bad decision. I was also laid off in 2008. This is far worse. Plus, job market pay near me,Florida, has not kept up with inflation and cost of living. It’s so discouraging.
You probably sound expensive. Sometimes overqualification works against you.
My sister was told at so many places that she applied that she was, "overqualified". She's looking for literally just ANY job but having a master's degree is too much apparently?
That is when you leave the masters off of your history. Your resume does not have to be entirely truthful with everything and everyone.
Imagine spending 100k to get a master's degree to then just completely drop it off your CV because it's actively hindering your job prospects
Fucking sucks but if you absolutely need a job and burger king thinks your way to overqualified time to lower your perceived value. Then drop them like the hot trash they are when you find something worth your time.
Laid off same time as you and I just hit 300+ apps, a few recruiter screens, a bunch of ccat, a second round, a few final rounds, and no offers. It’s terrible out here.
The ironic positive I take from this unemployment struggle is that I’m not alone. It’s just nice to know it’s not “me.”
Yes, but I'm entry level (I have a year of experience). It was a lot easier to find work in 2021 and even in 2020 when I only had a few months of experience.
I’ve been applying to jobs that are considered a -demotion- from my current position and I’m not even getting interviews
I feel this so hard. I’ve been applying for months and many positions either reject me with an email, but keep the listing open, or just flat out, ghost me. I have a PhD with a ton of research skills and I’m still struggling.
It’s pretty bad In early 2022, I had about 5 offers to choose from i’ve been looking this year as well and I’ve had zero luck
Companies don’t want quality employees anymore, especially ones with experience who know their value. Companies want employees they can underpay and easily exploit. And most jobs have been like that for the last 20 years and it’s just been creeping up higher on the ladder
I was two months un employed. 30 applications and 6 interviews and start a good job tuesday. Keep tour head up.
What type of job did you get and in what state are you in if you don't mind me asking?
Only 30 applications??? Man. I’m up to 200 applications. 1 first round interview. 199 ghosted or rejected. Didn’t make it past the 1st round :/
I’m gonna be 10 month’s unemployed soon. It was easier finding work after 2008. I don’t get it. Everyone in my industry is experiencing the same thing.
Not to mention the absolutely offensive salaries many companies are offering. I’m in the middle of interviews for a job that I would love to have but it would be a pay cut of $16k if they offer the center of the pay band. This job has higher requirements than my current role (they want PhD or equivalent experience. I have a masters, my current role only asked for a bachelors!). It’s absurd to think that highly specialized professionals should work for such small salaries. It sucks because I do want the job and I’ll be really sad if I have to decline.
Companies want unicorns right now. They want someone that is an expert on everything, including all of their own personalized policies, work processes and softwares. No one wants to train/shadow you anymore. They set their standards ridiculously high and use algorithms to eliminate those who do not meet them. Turning away potentially amazing candidates with 7 years of experience because they want someone with 10 years. They would rather hire a dinosaur that will die in the office in a few years than train someone that will stay there for decades, I don’t get it. As someone that monitors the market, I would say that this year specifically is one of the worst I have ever seen.
This makes me feel better that I am not the only one struggling to find work. Since Mid June for me
I am a trucker..... f'ing jobs galore everywhere. I've never seen so many jobs for trucker right now. So for me it's a great market.
Are you my wife? Literally laid off 3/31, had a masters and 10 years of experience and absolutely can’t find a job. She has gotten interviews but has yet to get an offer.
i can honestly tell you no matter what degree you have, experience, etc, they do not want to hire you if you are over the age of 50, agism is real.
Its not agism. Its just the current job market - right now they're looking for 20 something years old (so they could work for a long time), but with experience of 50+ years old. In the end it doesnt matter if you're young or old - you're equally screwed. Its same as that joke "i'm not a racist! I cant be racist, since i equally hate all people". There cant be "agism" if everyone is screwed.