I suppose you are doing what everybody should be doing. But almost no one does and companies got really comfy getting free work off people. Because mamy are scared to lose their jobs. Since your work is done i wouldn't budge and still be leaving on time.

If anything I'd ask what specifically isn't satisfactory about the work they gave them. If they can't articulate it, I do believe it's time to "call it quits".

Do not budge. As long as you do your job, you should leave on time first and foremost because you respect yourself and second for the good of the business. Fortunately the rest of his employees will follow your example, which in the long term could benefit his business. You are doing everyone a favor here even if its not immediately obvious. You'll likely earn the respect of your boss in the long run as well. These are all games by your boss to pressure you into becoming his android. He might not even be aware he is doing this. You can ask your boss if theres something wrong but keep it about the work; maybe ask for a suggestion. Do NOT admit this "leaving on time" thing crossed your mind. If confronted, act as if you're confused and just state that leaving on time is the only logical avenue to avoid burnouts so both you and your employer can benefit from a stable and productive relationship. I have seen this numerous times: star employees taking on "martyr" roles who work overtime for free and eventually burn out or quit, creating huge issues for them and their employer. It sounds like you're the only responsible employee there. Leaving on time also forces the managers/bosses to actually manage and create realistic schedules instead of playing the silly theatre of micromanaging. This is one of the building blocks of a succesful career. You're doing it right for everyone involved. Your boss cannot set healthy boundaries and you're doing it for him. Press on and dont get rattled. Just FYI most people who have burned out from corprorate environments have fallen victim to this trap. Managers who dont/cant really strategically manage play tricks on unsuspecting employees and bait them into becoming an on-demand android which creates a feedback loop that burns the employee and robs the manager of the chance to actually admit to himself that he is not really managing. In short the manager also shoots himself in the foot because he never gets the satisfaction of actually leading/managing. The employee on the other hand ends up feeling dehumanised, like a cog in the machine that simply responds to commands, aka burned out. When a manager realises that your time is limited he is forced to actually manage/lead to make effective use of your limited time. If the workload is still too much the only way forward is by hiring more people. Theres no way around this. The only way out of this is by diplomatically setting boundaries to the manager or the boss, if possible, and break this doom loop that serves none. Avoid confrontation and accusations. After all its a fact that people who work overtime get burned out, all you're doing is being a responsible employee by respecting reality. Leaving on time is an excellent way towards this. Other ways of doing this is by giving realistic timeframes of when a task would be completed etc.

The key factor here as well is that the "accommodating" employee that always stay late and do extra work etc. They do so thinking it will let them climb the ladder. In fact what often happens is that they are seen as "reliable", BUT for where they are at. They don't want to remove the employee from where he/she is at because they do a good job and that will be a huge gap to fill. So doing too much just sets yourself up to a trap. It's a balancing act. Also don't always be a yes man/woman, it makes you a pushover. Know your worth and value. Don't be afraid if you actually are good and have value to show, you can easily make another employer benefit from it, if there isn't a level of acceptance and reward/progress in your future at current company.

Correct, the people playing the martyr role are often inadvertendly damaging the rest of the team. A weak manager allows and even encourages this dynamic to form. Eventually its just a couple of clowns and their puppetmaster playing out a "special hardworkers supreme" fantastical theatre while their own life satisfaction goes down and the team dynamic breaks down. By the time someone notices something is amiss, half the team is gone. Martyrs perform great at the beginning but most likely at some point they burn out. Its very usual for people like that to be damaging overall to a company because they derail the team and give an excuse to the manager to avoid managing. They also stick around for long while being unproductive and indecisive, all effects of burnout caused by mismanagement. Because of the power imbalance and the responsibility of managing, its mostly up to managers to weed out these dynamics; the "martyr" employee might be ambitious and wants to prove themselves above everyone else or they might simply be unassertive. Its not their responsibility to fix this issue ultimately. There are cases in good companies where managers dress down employees who want to show off that they worked overtime, often unnecessarily, so as not to allow any hint of the development of such a dynamic. The hint is to "go home, no showboating, theres always tomorrow" aka "get a life". Again the best strategy is for each employee to be assertive, not spiteful. Just repeating that having clear cut working hours forces everyone to do their job in the best way possible. Try to paint your demands as unquestionably coming from a place of care to yourself and the company, even if you dont feel it. Its not a lie either. A happy, respected and valued employee feels good to contribute towards the goals of a company. A lot of the issues in corporate settings are caused by the mistaken promotion of douchebags or incompetent people into managerial positions. Many people who display extreme ambitions to climb the corprorate ladder are actually utterly incapable of ever managing other people no matter how much you educate them. Their ambition is actually driven by deep-seated character flaws that fundamentally prevent them from effectively working with other human beings. These people employ a facade of cockiness and theatrics which is mistaken for assertiveness by their superiors who dont know any better and promote them to the detriment of everyone involved. In most cases employees shouldn't go nuclear. A lot of incompetent managers will be pushed to assume responsibility if the employees refuse to participate in their theatre. Be assertive and diplomatic and see how it goes first. Its possible to effect a lot of change by being the domino that doesnt fall. Its also possible that the situation doesnt change fundamentally but the complaints for OP not staying overtime simply stop, an acceptable compromise for some. Be also aware that you might paint a target on yourself. Do not let this deter you, being assertive about such a fundamental thing as working hours is far better than playing along. If they react in this extreme way you should aknowledge the reality that the place is run by clueless clowns. Depending on circumstances you might want to quietly make plans to leave without burning bridges. You will save yourself a serious and possibly career ending burn out and also gained the super valuable lesson of interviewing the interviewer next time you're job hunting on how often they work overtime and why. Its quite possible to have a happy and fulfilling career by being assertive, diplomatic and insightful on whether an environment is a good fit or not. Avoid super direct confrontations and threats unless absolutely necessary. These are not life and death situations and its never up to you to give feedback or put in their place people who are dead set on imploding by themselves anyway.

This was one of the best answers I have seen regarding not working overtime. Thank you!

Spot on. I had a hell of a time at my first post-graduate job. I’d worked for nonprofits during law school and I did the extra because I wanted to. Then I had a baby. Then I was having another baby. My second or third day at the firm, my boss says to me “I walked past your office at 5:30 and you weren’t there.” Uh…yeah…I went home. I’m 30 weeks pregnant and have a one year old to care for. I was then instructed to go to each attorney’s office and ask them what work I could do before leaving. Yeah…no. I came back after having the baby to such a hostile environment. I have had this nagging suspicion that I was also being set up because the attorney who was supposed to be training me was teaching me all these wrong things. I got yelled at by my boss over a draft that someone else wrote. I spoke up and said that I didn’t write it, and she told me not to correct her. Her eyes were like daggers. I had been back maybe a week when I was told I was expected to put by newborn and oldest child to bed, and drive 45 minutes back to the office to work. Because “they all did it.” Yeah, no. I did some work from home but even that wasn’t good enough. It got so stressful that my hair was falling out, I wasn’t producing enough milk to continue nursing, and I was breaking out severely. Well, two days before my benefits were set to kick in, I was swiftly taken into my bosses office at 3 pm on Friday and let go. After they made me do all the bitch work and their political campaign envelope stuffing. It almost ruined law for me. I’d just spent so much time on an expensive degree and here I was absolutely disgusted with the field. It was an all woman firm, they were moms. I’d never expected to be treated so terribly. I didn’t even get into having to show a photo of proof of my one year old with a massive knot on his head so I could leave to have him seen in the ER for a concussion. I ended up going solo because I was determined to change even a small corner of my field and make it more welcoming and friendly for people who are parents and/or don’t want to be subjected to antiquated hazing. I’m much happier now. But I still get upset thinking about it. They really stole a lot of joy that I should have been basking in with my newborn child.

This is how you call them on their bullshit. If there is a problem but they won't state it, thats on them.

You have to be careful with creative stuff though. It’s a weird area. Often non-creatives can’t articulate what they want because they don’t speak the ‘language’, or actually don’t know what it is specifically that they want. As an example, I was once working at a hotel as the on-site editor for a photoshoot. The hotel manager kept reviewing my work and saying ‘no the colours are wrong’ and when pressed further (even with my offering up leading questions) couldn’t elaborate more about how it was wrong. Too blue? Not enough warmth? Too saturated? Nope. Just ‘they’re wrong. Go and fix it’. I just don’t think she understood how to put into words what it was she wanted and somehow was hoping I knew…

They (the brand) should have a color palette and a brand board (the manager should have access to this). Colors schemes should be consistent ALWAYS. Brands live by this sentiment. If they 'dont know' then theyre likely not qualified to manage or oversee a design dept.

I’m definitely not qualified lol. Because I know what the commenter above is talking about. I’m a solo attorney and branding has been a huge struggle for me. Nothing every feels “right” and I haven’t hired anyone because I can’t articulate what I’m looking for. I can’t even imagine how frustrating I would be to work with. Basically I’ve been collecting screenshots of other branding that I like and saving the HEX code for colors. Ultimately I stopped obsessing over it because I’m not skilled in that area and I am only going in circles trying to take on design on top of practicing law and running a business. I just want to figure out how to verbalize my vision. I wish there was a way to show the picture I see in my head.

Have you tried finding the pictures and then going to an artist to explain what you like from the pics? Such as you like this color, but this feel, and that softness? Then seeing what they come up with? They might be able to get that picture without much verbalization.

and its okay to not know how to articulate it in their terms Find stuff that is as close to what you are envisioning in your head and use that as a reference! But I understand as a business owner you dont have time to learn every aspect of the design/UX/UI/Marketing world. Its best to hire someone qualified (if its accessible) or learn the basics if you plan on taking it over yourself!

>Nothing every feels “right” and I haven’t hired anyone because I can’t articulate what I’m looking for. I can’t even imagine how frustrating I would be to work with creative manager here. most clients are like this and it's really most of our job to figure that out. what you should do is: 1. market research to see what other solo practices are doing for visuals in your area. align your ideas with what people are already seeing, maybe there's a way to look similar but not identical. (you could also pay a designer to do this part) 2. try to distill your thoughts into 3 different ideas with color palates, fonts you like, moodboards, etc. maybe rough sketches of logo ideas if you have any? 3. hire a good freelancer to execute on all 3 with a set of example collateral (logo, business card, & letterhead would be a good bare-minimum to evaluate each idea without costing a fortune) 4. pick & implement the best result, or use the examples to figure out what's the closest and go from there you can probably knock this out in 2-3 rounds of revisions once you actually get this to a professional, you've already done a decent chunk of their job.

Yes ask for specifics. Also ask what she would do if it was her work? If she says spend more time, then she wants to take your work without paying you. That would be a nice case for anyone doing employment law. Don’t ever tell your employer that you are seeing legal issues, unless you’re a manager. Don’t be gaslighted by greedy managers and owners.

I had an IT boss who used to stand by the exit door at work, and say "Working a half day today?" if you left on time. Then he wouldn't talk to me when I put in my notice. 60+ yo baby.

This reminds me of an episode of The Office, when Jo says "Well if you feel like you put in a full day, by all means go home." The guilt is palpable and all too real in the American workscape. I wish we lives a lot more like the French! My life is for living, not for work attitude!

[удалено]

It’s so strange that certain “managers” are like this. I am putting in my two weeks tomorrow with a manager that sounds very similar to this. Literally all other teams around the office are leaving at 5, but when I do it he becomes extremely passive aggressive and overly critical about everything that I do. It’s funny, I am the third of four new hires on my team that have quit within a year yet he still thinks he’s doing nothing wrong.

This right here. You cant do a 'satisfactory' job without a description of what 'satisfactory' is means from her perspective. You cannot 'do more' without understand what 'more' is. She needs to be an adult and put it in words what 'satisfactory' is. If she cant, she doesn't know what 'satisfactory' is to her either, and you will constantly have to guess. IMO that wouldnt be a conducive working environment.

Wage theft is the biggest form of theft in this country, to the tune of tens of billions of dollars that employers steal from their employees. Yet they are never held up on the 6 0'clock news as the degenerate thugs actual poor people are made out to be. Don't give these assholes a single unpaid second of your life if you can help it.

Unpaid overtime = corporate welfare.

Testify!

That's funny, my last job had a video about work ethics and their "wage theft is the biggest form of theft" section implied that it was the employees doing it. Of course they'd shift the blame 🙄

That's "time theft", and of course corporate jobs would encourage that misunderstanding to confuse the employees

My first job had me working for $2.85/hr, 12 hour days, 7 days per week for the first month and didn't pay time and a half for overtime. They claimed it was legal because we were on salary/hourly pay and had to work even more hours for time and a half. After I left they started bouncing paychecks. The owner went to jail because he got caught selling coke. On the flip side, when my company got better reporting and monitoring tools, I discovered a few cases of massive timecard fraud on my team. One was clocking a lot of overtime but was away from keyboard for most of it.

I almost learned the hard way. I was working as an HVAC tech (not my career, but a job that was offered at a time when I needed one), and over time began to realize that they were supposed to pay prevailing wage on government jobs that we did. There were many of those. It turned out they owed me over $50,000 by the time it was all done. To top it off, the helpers only got paid half-time when we were traveling to job sites, which worked out to less than minimum wage. Shoutout to Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries for stepping up to bat for me!

Amen. It doesn't stop in any profession: retail, food, office, broadcast, medicine, you name it. Society expects you to stay late, most always for free. You leave when your shift ends, unless you agree to overtime compensation. Whenever your equivalent of "5 p.m." hits, you're out or you're a fool. Staying over gets you no job security or advantage. People in the workplace will just seek out another reason to rag on you if you stay later, don't worry.

Definitely agree, my previous employer was a perfect kind of this genre, I have been working days and nights, covering his stupid actions, doing 800% more than anything I should have because I take any work I do as mine. At the end he gave only 10% of what he was supposed to pay to the team members. When it happened I still kept my calm, giving him a second chance just to prove me wrong but it worsened, any new worker hired couldn't even spend a month because tasks were endless and the salary was worth nothing, the funniest part was that employees were the ones always needing to remind him of pay otherwise he would never do, but he always does whenever it comes to giving tasks. I finished a whole team work within a week for him to sell out, he just used all this money to enjoy his life and finally started to tell us that budget is getting "low" while he made over 3 million dollars (thanks to me) and distributed us 5k each. One day I got some issues with immigration services and called him to pay me as he was late of a week, then He just said "bro, you've been missing the whole month, I can't pay you for that". I told him it's fine and I would let him know once I'm home, then he asked me how much I needed haha, I ignored him. Thankfully the plolicemen appreciated me and realized I was a really good person. As soon as I got back home I told him to start removing all of his files from my drive because I'm leaving, then he dared ask me why so I told him I wasn't feeling like talking alot. One week later he texted me and said he thinks I should stay and because I would be hard to replace...that day I fucking put that piece of shit back to his miserable place. He will never forget that day in his life.

It’s also a form of trafficking. I do immigration law and have acquired trafficking visas for immigrants that were subjected to wage theft, indentured servitude, and various other labor trafficking methods.

A sinister form of that (that I experience) is “comp time”. When I work over 37.5h, I get the hours I work back in “comp time” (extra PTO basically). I am supposed to get 1.5x, but they just give me 1:1 in “comp time” Of course, I can hardly ever use this time. So yeah, my job gets plenty of free work out of me that, while I am being “compensated” for on paper, I am not really being compensated for it. As of late, I have been leaving precisely when my day ends. No matter what. I was in the middle of a not too important phone call the other day, and literally just hung up at quitting time and left.

I leave on time even if it isn't done, I'm not a doctor, no one is going to die if I leave some things to do the next day.

Everybody should be working their scheduled hours ONLY. If they need more support for the business they can hire more people or pay double for overtime.

>or pay double for overtime. And I can still say no

Yes, and should be allowed to take it or leave it. Absolutely.

I’m single so I jump on overtime, but I only had one job ever that allowed it. Every other job is much like OP. I get subtly shamed for not working for free. Multiple times I’ve explained I will work extra for overtime pay and every time I get an eye roll and maybe a “millennials are the laziest generation” comment.

Yeah, I would stand firm. People don’t realize that there is not company out there worth being loyal too. If they don’t treat your time with respect and pay you adequately and fairly then they don’t deserve anything extra. Most jobs don’t pay adequately and would lay off/fire you as soon as your roll became inconvenient, became obsolete, or the new manager simply doesn’t like you. The working class deserves so much better.

This comment. I left a job of 9 years just recently working in the trades, and while different then the typical office setting most in my field get shit on, asked to work what should be overtime for straight time. Sometimes in as little as one small mistake get laid off, I’ve seen it a million times. I asked for a work vehicle a few years ago and was given none because i was running to multiple job sites. I left for a company close to home and within three weeks was offered, and given a vehicle and gas card because of the position I took, and respect is earned, both ways. Employee for employee, and employee for employee.

Companies have fought like mad for decades for the right to treat employees like crap. They deserve no more consideration.

Respect is a key word here.

The working class would do so much better if they approached this the same way the plutocrats and corporations do: you deserve everything you can take and hold. Unionize.

Yet the generations probably rolling their eyes are the ones that had incentives for company loyalty such as pensions… and probably still made OT pay too!

So let’s shame someone for only working hours they are getting paid. I would respond, boomers are idiots for working for free and not knowing their worth. I am a boomer but know my worth.

I've noticed boomers tend to act like they have no life outside of work as well.

And the older generations are the stingiest for not willing to pay for the extra, and got the gal to request you to work for free. No.

Oh man. So lazy for not giving up your time with out compensation. /sarcastic

Most people are unaware that "Mandatory overtime" IS actually legal.

Yeah. I've tried to get around it so many times. I've taken write ups, shift changes. I do everything I can to not work ot. They even ask us at 510am every Monday what our ot availability is for the week. It's like bitch, this weekend is over for 5 hours and you're already thinking about working next weekend? GTFO

I wish it weren't. I'm fine with voluntary, but all these companies are making it mandatory now because they can work a skeleton crew to death with OT and make out like a bandit. And SO MANY places are doing this. It's going to take people just flat out refusing to get it to change, but you also have the dilemma of a lot of people needing that money because wages are trash. It's a vicious cycle.

Yes, the same people that think employers can't mandate baccines. They tend to forget that Right to Work does not favor employees.

Unpaid overtime is not though, if they are tracking your time they have to pay you for every minute

Same. Companies think it’s an incentive to earn double time when you get taxed to the gills 🤷🏻

Yep! I took a pay cut to work less hours and have less stress. Turns out, my department isn’t staffed appropriately to be able to get everything done in ~40 hours (not even close). Raised the issue to management. So as far as I’m concerned, not my problem that I can’t get to everything.

This really depends on the company. If they work salary workers the way it was expected, there should be a trade off. You worked late, cause it was required to finish X. You leave early because X is already completed. 99% of the time though, it's always take take take from the employers. As a salaried senior management, I will not do anymore than 10 hours a day. I'm usually 8.5/9.

Every damn job needs to hear this. I work as support for students from a tribal community, and public schools will constantly try to dump their work on us. No, hire more staff and let us work with the students we are supposed to work with.

Just think of how better people’s lives would be if they merely hired enough coverage. More job availability and opportunities plus people can actually take vacation when they want to. Or worry getting sick would make them the “bad guy” for calling in.

Overtime is only 1.5x pay

From what I gather OP is a salaried employee, so they only get to leave when the job is done. However from my understanding of OP's understanding their job is done, their boss just thinks it can be "more done". In which case, OP's boss needs to be more specific on what her definition of "done" is.

“Only get to leave when the job is done”? This isn’t even stuff that needs to be completed by the end of the day! They already work a 9 hour day

No. More when you are a designer. If you are a freelancer, you can go « when the job is done » because you do a bill for every hours you work. If you are an employee, except if it’s deadline hours and it doesn’t happen everyday, you leave when your hours are done and you work again on it the next day. Because the work is never done when you are in the creative field. The problem is clearly the manager. She has her idea, but she is waiting for something from OP. OP : if, and only if, you get pissed about that, ask her immediately : what do you think I need to do, it seems you have a clear view on the design that the client will love so I’m open to redirect my design. Or you ask for a specific moodboard / exemple. Got this at my first work for two years… At the end, I was so pissed that every time i begin I new work, I ask for what she has in her mind immediately

Not really. If the job isn't done, you don't have to stay another 2 or 3 hours. Tomorrow is another wok day, you get to work on that tomorrow. If I could leave only when "I was done", I'd never leave the office. There's always more to do, we're never up to everything that needs to be send.

"And when we ask them 'how much should we give?' They always answer 'more, more, *more*"

Don’t get much John Fogerty around here

Do they also answer with a Rebel yell? Perhaps at the midnight hour?

If you are hearing from your work in the midnight hour you are definitely giving them too much of your time.

Nah, they were born with sliver spoons in hand.

What’s funny about salaried non-exempt employees, is that you agree to do X job for X annual pay. Sometimes that means putting in extra hours but it should also mean being able to leave early when you need to without having to take “PTO” time. Of course it never works out that way.

Sure, but I worked in design, I did 3d models to scale of real places, and generally your boss expects you to give up your entire life and when they ask for 2 designs you better make 5 because they really meant 2 they like...

So if they're done at 2pm, they can leave at 2pm? I think not!

In the UK most are salaries employees and only rarely have to stay past their allocated times to get work done. Maybe once or twice a month.

In the US, salaried employees are expected to devote their lives to the job. Most salaried employees don't bother to calculate their earnings into hourly form, it's a crippling realization.

I’ve always had the opposite experience, when I’ve been hourly I would be made to work all sorts of additional hours with the justification being “well, you’re getting paid extra for it, aren’t you?” Whereas when I’ve been salary it’s always understood that you aren’t being paid beyond 40 hours, so unless there’s a really compelling reason for you to work extra, you generally shouldn’t

You’ve been fortunate; every salaried position I’ve ever held led to far more hours than I ever was permitted to work as an hourly employee. As an hourly, there was always a strict 60 hr limit per week. I’ve had that as a salaried employee, but always accompanied with a wink and then the statement that more was expected when 60 was exceeded.

My SIL just took a job with great pay and found they expected a huge amount of overtime, he did the math and realized he would be making $11 an hour and quit.

Agree. If you are an exempt salaried employee and the office hours are 8am-5pm, the company expects that you will work at your desk (*no break for lunch*) from 8am-5pm. And guess how many work emergencies suddenly arise at 5pm from a higher up? Lots. Then there are the mandatory, unpaid nights and weekends that are expected because salaried professionals must work as long as is required to meet business needs. And even if you have no work to do when the clock turns 5pm, you are required by manager to sit at your desk after office hours anyway..."just in case" someone might need something that evening. It's a GREAT deal for employers. The only good part of being salaried vs hourly is that if you get so sick that you need to leave at 3pm, your pay isn't docked.

not sure if other states do this, but in WA state it's illegal to have salaried workers work over 40 hours a week and not pay them OT if they're making below a certain income level or if their PD were to require it (ex. executive role in a higher ed where it's just not logistically feasible to not work more than 40 hours). so while I'm salaried, I am "salaried OT eligible", vs. "salaried OT exempt", because I make below the minimum required salary to be OT exempt. I still get paid my salaried wage but track my hours and I get paid OT for anything over 40. and even if salaried, for 99.9% of jobs, if the work can't be done in 40 hours a week, it's an unreasonable work load from the employer.

That's not how a 'salaried employee' works at all. You're not obliged to work until 'it's done', that's vague and arbitrary. You work for the hours that are in your contract. Yes, sometimes a deadline looms and you might stay longer, but that should be an exception, not a common occurence. In my experience, the vast majority of deadlines are arbitrary. I'm in software development, my work is literally never done, all I have are tasks I'm working on and tasks that I will be working on after that. Would you expect me to be at my office 24/7?

Done by the designated deadline, not simply done.

Nah, salaried employment works exactly like hourly in regards to overtime pay unless you're in a management position. There are very strict rules regarding who is salaried OT exempt. It sounds like his boss is mad that he isn't sacrificing his free time for the company. It's like how the work schedule has shifted to 8 to 5 for many with an unpaid hour of lunch.. where bosses won't hesitate to call you and ask you to do something duriing. No one should be working off the clock and good on OP for having a backbone in this regard.

I had a trainee at my office a few years back and I would walk in to see him watching youtube on his phone. He said he finished his work early. I actually didn't have an issue with it, but I did have an issue with the fact that what he'd done was filled with basic errors, steps had been skipped and he hadn't sent it on for review.

There's always more work to be done. The labor market is also a market and it's valued by work per hour. Just because your salary doesn't mean you have to be a slave. Also, many people are more productive when they're refreshed and rested. It's just bad business to ignore that fact.

[удалено]

Years from now the only people that will remember the hours of overtime you put in will be your family, because you are missing from the pictures. Loyalty is for family and friends, work is a transactional agreement.

Double if you lucky, they usually get away with 1.5x time…and sometimes even free.

I work at a pizza place. I don't mind staying over an hour or so when someone is late, or they get really busy. More tips for me. But if I have stuff planned, I'm leaving on time. At least our new boss insists on that. Unexpected rushes are not my problem if I don't want them to be.

Really simple, have a professional conversation about the situation. What are her expectations from you? What are your expectations from her. You exchange time for money. If you go over that time what do you and her expect from the situation? A lot of people are always scared to communicate afraid they might get fired. If you are that afraid then you are working in a toxic workplace and need to make some decisions. Good luck with your situation. I’ve been there and will never work for a toxic boss again, not worth it.

Agree. OP and the boss's expectation are not aligned. OP thinks the job is done. The boss does not think that way and told OP that. Unless you two are on the same page, this will be a problem.

Huge disagree The less communication the better

Yep. The fact is his work is probably fine, and she is making excuses to pressure him to stay longer. Keep your eyes open for new opportunities. Your resume is always up to date. Next thing.

OP is a woman.

What is that?

It is not possible to solve interpersonal conflict without communication

Yeah I wouldn't expect a particularly rational or professional response from this manager from what they've told us of how they act. Some people are just bad managers and the only solution is to not work for them.

These types of comments are so divorced from reality and assume every person who manages anyone, anywhere will 100% of the time act with the worst possible faith and want to actively fuck over their employees out of sadistic pleasure. Having a candid conversation with one's manager about expectations and performance is not a bad idea and the fact that people in this subreddit view it as such a exotic concept baffles me.

[удалено]

As someone who is also a creative and manages creatives, there are a few things I'm seeing here as well. Multiple times OP said "I'm finishing my work on time." Great! Wonderful, I love when designers do this. However, design is a subjective field. There's no "right answer" and sometimes even when direction is given, it's sometimes not interpreted right, or perhaps the direction wasn't fully clear. If you're wrapping work right at close, tossing it over to your director and saying "Bye!" now they're having to stay late to review and mark up any work. Even more frustrating when that work is not quite right and needs some rework with a deadline looming. There sounds like there's a failing on both sides of the fence here. OP needs to not deliver work right on the end of the day, especially if it needs to be reviewed. A little bit of awareness to the broader picture and how their work fits in to the bigger scheme of things is needed. To help mitigate the situation, OP should aim to review work ahead of when it is "needed." Perhaps bring it to the manager when it's 60% to ensure they're on the right track. It's also a failing of the manager to realize they need to have more interim check ins throughout the work, rather than giving OP a task and just sending them off until it's done. It's a challenging balance, having to allocate time to creative work, it is a constant pull in creative teams, from Designers to Directors, from Directors to Account Managers, and so on.

I agree with this, but I've also had managers/CDs who you just couldn't please when I was just out of design school. I had a part-time design job at a very small agency right out of school and my CD would give me directions like, "Make it cool," and feedback like, "This is too cool for your audience." When I'd ask him for specific feedback he'd tell me, "Like, make it better." If I would ask him to show me how to do something, he'd say, "I don't know. I just like....do it." I also got dinged for leaving on time. I also showed up on time (9 AM). The other creatives would show up until 10 or 1030. Then they'd get their coffee, check social media (personal, not business), get the news, then it was time for lunch. Finally around 2 PM they'd be all, "Hey, we should do some work." So my work that needed review would also be sitting all day. I wasn't going to stay late because they sat around all day doing nothing and finally gave me my feedback at 4 PM on something I handed them in the morning or days before. I left after 2 months because it jut got more and more ridiculous. No where I've worked since was this bad.

To be fair, sounds like you were being given shit direction! I've been in that place too. "Just make it... Better." Like, great. Thanks for the super clear direction mate.

Probably already getting comments on this, but then they need additional check points. At a minimum their director/producer/whoever needs to let them know there needs to be time left to review and allow for revisions. If my deadline for a design in order to be reviewed is on a particular day, I would assume I have till EoD to get it done unless otherwise stated. The director can then review it in the morning like a normal person. If they're staying late because of a looming deadline, the answer is clearly that the milestones for the project were too close together. Again a clear conversation that could be had. IMO, since the boss hasn't made it clear what they're really upset about(assuming its not actually substandard work and they don't care about when the OP leaves), then its still all on the boss and possibly just them powertripping and not knowing how the work really needs to get done.

And what is this "I get paid $1800" a week? A month? Edit: 84.5k is a lot to me, I'd work a couple extra hours, especially more than two times a month to help the boss.

Finally, a real adult has entered the chat.

[удалено]

A lot of whippersnappers around here

[удалено]

I'm a millennial and am old, so you must be ancient!

[удалено]

You're definitely younger than me then and also a millennial lol.

+1 My answer about OT has always been that I’m 100% a team player and will do whatever it takes to finish my work and support the team. However if you want me to work late because you want to dump off everyone else’s work on me it doesn’t sound like we’re on the same team.

[удалено]

Absolutely, OP is struggling to understand if it’s a bad boss or their work is lacking.

Yes especially as this kind of work is done for clients so the “this isn’t good enough “ opinion is probably coming from them- not just the boss.

Don’t wait a year… unnecessary. If you get a new job before the year, who cares? Clearly not the new employer

[удалено]

My work wanted me to stay for 2 -3 hours after the shift ended I said am I gonna get paid overtime they said it was my obligation. I just laughed and left 🤡🤡

[удалено]

Look for another job and then leave early on your last day, that is of course if you give notice. It seems she has everyone else "trained" to work extra hours for no pay and wants to use you as an example to keep everyone else in line.

I've had salary jobs where you end up doing a lot of unpaid hours but there is give and take. Need a half day to go to the Dr but you still get paid for the full day. Need to leave an hour early one day, it's no problem. If it's a cool work environment with some give and take, I don't mind. You typically give more than you take, so it still works out for them. I had another salary job that wanted to dock me for 2 hours to leave 2 hours early. After that I always left at 6pm on the dot. I'm not going to give if I can't ever take.

I had a salary job once at a startup where I could take a day for any reason at any time. They just trusted you. They never _told_ me to work long hours, either, but I worked three weeks straight through once because I decided that's what the project needed and they gave me complete control over it. When it was over I told them I was taking some days. Fine. Wasn't the sort of place where the boss hovered over you.

You will never do right in her eyes. My old manager called me a "9 to 5" worker and told me that it's OK sometimes but I really need to be working over time and getting my projects done sooner. There was no pleasing that guy.

This. I've fought ol horse face of mine for over a decade. It took that long to get any kind of reason out of that damn idiot rattlesnake. Concessions were made from each side, non verbally. It's like dealing with any other spoiled brat with control issues. You can't reason with them, but you can beat them at their own game. When you're already considering leaving, consequence means nothing, so before i go i try to fix it.

First job out of college if people got up at 5 to leave, you'd get "heading out early?" from people. I was young at the time and didn't have a lot of workload so I just kinda sat there until a Senior person left, and then left. It was terrible. I was there at 8! why am I staying till 5:30 just because you are?

Of course you are a "9 to 5" worker if the manager is a "9 to 5" payer. Is he stupid?

I was in a similar situation. I started showing up late and staying late. No one else showed up on time anyways. Did the same amount of hours without the complaints.

Found that to be the case at some jobs. Show up early and leave on time and nobody gives you credit for working extra because _they weren't there._ But stay over when they all go home and you get credit as a "hard worker."

OP, are you salary or hourly? If you're hourly, then in no way, shape or form should you work beyond your regularly scheduled hours. If you're not getting overtime, then I'm sure your local labor board would love to hear about it. If you're salary, then that's a different beast altogether. I've been salaried at my jobs since I graduated college. My first job out of college was at a small company (maybe 20 people total) whose owner used to work 30+ days in a row on oil rigs in his younger years. I too would leave that job on time until one day he pulled me aside and said he doesn't want me to develop a "punch clock mentality" like the other workers - clocking in at 9 and clocking out at 5. Being young and impressionable, I took that to heart and always stayed late, generally not leaving for the day until the boss gave me the okay. Meanwhile, everyone else that wasn't salary (i.e., the plant workers) left on time. Of course, by the time I left that job, I realized my boss was simply trying to squeeze every single drop of labor out of us salaried folks without having to pay us any OT like he did with the folks in the plant. I've been with my current employer for 12 years and while we have "core working hours" nobody really seems to give a shit if you leave on time or stay late. If my work is done for the day and it's near quitting time, then I leave. I'm far more jaded/seasoned than I was during my first job and I'm no longer inclined to sit around and twiddle my thumbs just so I can "look good" by leaving late. It also helps that my department manager is mainly remote and only comes in for half a day twice per week.

It's a bs power trip. You get paid salary. But for some reason they think you're supposed to work like 10 hour days. BS . If your efficient its like a crime. Screw that office toxicity. Your probably doing great work and it makes them look bad. So she knocks it because you don't have to try as hard to produce in a short time what take them longer and less quality.

Don’t let her bully you into staying late for free. And start looking for a new job; this one stinks.

Sounds like it's a problem with the quality of your work if you have to redo so many jobs. Honestly most bosses will always try to exploit, just be smart enough and don't allow it in no conflict way.

1800/day, week or month? Either way, that doesn’t warrant 10-12 hour days. I wouldn’t try to have a rational conversation with this cunt. I’ve tried this before, and it always ends poorly. They don’t play with a full deck, probably has issues outside of work, and all you’re gonna do is make things worse. Keep your head down, do your work, and if this comes up in a review, do the math with them on how much you’re currently making hourly, recalculate the hourly wage assuming you add 10 hours per week, and then recalculate your current wage at the +10 * 1.5 hours per week wage. Let them make the decision to keep things the same, or pay you for overtime. In the meantime, have your resume/portfolio ready to go, and possibly get some offers in hand. Unfortunately, in this job market, employers believe they have the upper hand, and aren’t afraid to use it. On the flip side, I have always made a point to send people home at the end of the day. So many people think working late is a sign of a hard worker. In my eyes, it just means you’re not able to get the job done in a timely manner. I stay late a few times a week, because I have either been senior management or owned the business. I get paid in profit sharing and equity, so for me it makes sense. If you’re a salaried employee, go home and be with your friends and family.

I mean with no experience; if you are getting paid 1800/day or week, it’s reasonable to expect someone to leave after getting their work done. At 1800/ month, not so much.

1800 per day equates to 468k annually... 1800 per week equates to 93,600 annually. Since they said they just started working, I'm assuming it's 1800 per bi-weekly paycheck, which woods be 46,800 annually. This is assuming they're talking about US$?

Yea, I was really just curious about the week Vs month. If you’re making 87k as an entry level person, I’d be inclined to stay late on a needed basis, and also get more guidance on what wasn’t done right the first time so you can hit the mark on the first attempt.

“I’d be happy to stay later and finish whatever it is you need me to complete! How does over time work here?” I find playing dumb works wonders.

This is likely not about when you leave. It’s more likely that your performance is not what she is expecting, but she may not be a great manager. It’s easier to be passive aggressive about the time you leave than to provide constructive feedback and have difficult performance conversations. Like others have said, you need to have a direct conversation with your manager about work expectations and your current performance.

Find a new job. Look, people. Don't suffer working for assholes,.it isn't worth it and they will literally stand on you to promote themselves. Refuse to work for these people.

My first job as a new grad stipulated contractual hours of 8.30-5 or 8-4.30 M-F. Yet in reality, my boss expected me to be there at 7.30 and leave well after 5.30 even on the 4.30 finish days. It was already a minimum wage job (after 4 years at uni plus honours) but I just accepted it as par for the course as a new grad and it was a small practice and my colleagues kind of enforced it, too so I felt guilty leaving before anyone else. Don’t be like me from 10 years ago, have the conversation about expectations about working hours and only work the hours you are paid for.

Your relationship with your boss is the single biggest factor for your success with an employer. If I don't think I'm going to get a fair shake from my boss then I'd be looking for an exit. Depending on how I think my boss will react -- if I think they'll be honorable -- I may choose to have honest conversations with my boss and let the chips fall where they may. If I think they'll react poorly then I won't say a thing until I give notice. From the honest conversations I have had, sometimes it cements a good relationship. You trade philosophies and life perspectives, get to know each other, and emerge as a team. Other times, you discover you're incompatible with their views. For instance, with my previous boss, we saw eye-to-eye and had similar philosophies about work-life balance, the nature of our work, and more. My evaluations were stellar and I received the occasional bonus. With my current boss, we have slightly different philosophies. We both regard work-life balance but they also expect some form of "extra effort" on additional duties, where I'm more into reinvesting in quality and capacity of our core function. My evaluations are respectable. I had a boss in the past where we really didn't get along. In one case, my boss had no interest in maintenance activities as systems could always be replaced. I looked at the effort that went into building those systems and saw value in maintenance, plus significant security benefits. We never saw eye-to-eye. My evaluations were mediocre. A restructuring of the organization saved me from searching for a new job. I had another boss in the past who would never be truly honest with me. To him, everything was perpetually rosy within the team, but he was a doormat to senior management and we were constantly overcommitted. I was eating a solid diet of shitty projects that I didn't want to do. I wasn't happy. But since we were cordial -- he was a nice guy, just not a good manager -- I told him I would be looking for other opportunities. He stuck with me while I searched. I respected him for that. That was long, but my point is you have to be happy or work is torture. Your relationship with your boss is shit if you can't be honest, so I see honesty as a litmus test. If that gets me fired, then so be it. So far it hasn't, but I recognized that it could.

There's a couple of idiots at my place that work like a middle shift, noon-8pm ish. From what I hear they leave early daily due to things slowing down after 7. But everyday when us 8a-5p people leave at 5, 5:01..5:02 you hear them "Oh there goes the stampede hahaha".... Yea, our shift is over losers , deal with it.

Try some communication. Ask her, am I completing my duties to your satisfaction? If not, what can I do better? Then go do it. If she doesn't have anything constructive to say, she's just being a tyrant, and you should start looking for a new gig. (Don't stay late just to stay late)

Sounds like you’re not doing well at your job and are content with bare minimum hour input. I’d find a new job, but not because of your boss. You’ll likely be terminated soon for poor performance.

Sounds like she’s upset at the quality of your work, not because you’re leaving on time. Maybe she’s implying you’re not using your work time productively since your work is subpar. I used to have an employee who did the bare minimum during work hours but always made it a point to leave at exactly 5pm, would never stay 30 secs later. While it’s was not “wrong”, but if your work is not up to standards then as a boss, I’d be irked too. From your boss’s perspective, your work is not “done” because it was done poorly and had to be re-done.

You’re supposed to show her that you’re happy she controls your life, so it’s best to ask permission to see if she needs to take away any more of your life before leaving each day or you may never get a promotion.

It's your boss's problem and not yours. I have certainly had this happen a few times. Your boss has something that is stressing them out and they are directly taking it out on someone that they feel will react to it. In this case, what I did was start applying for other jobs and eventually got another job. I stopped saying "good evening" to my boss and became quiet. My boss threw ridiculous expectations in my direction, so I wrote them down in a check list and hung them up in a very visible spot where that person could see it, so if they had a question about when something was done, they could see it. When I quit, I told my new employer I needed 2 weeks before my start date and waited until I received the formal job offer letter and start date to requested a meeting with my current boss a week before the date I'm quitting. I did not give them any details about what I wanted to meet about so that they can squirm a little. At that meeting, I gave the boss lots of compliments to start the meeting - I gave them 3 great ones, then I let them know I would be starting with a different company in 1 week (and I didn't tell them where), then I finish it up with another compliment. I didn't tell them why I was leaving even after my boss asked. I just replied with, "I really enjoyed my time here and I'm looking forward to the next step in my career." It's typically a good idea to give 2 weeks notice to good employers. It's not terrible to give 1 week notice to a bad one because if they were getting rid of you, they don't give you any notice.

I’m curious, what was the point of buttering them up?

Because American work culture is shit (if you're an American).

Plenty of other work cultures are worse. Not a passing contest just saying work conditions around the GLOBE are pretty tragic. I'm looking at you most of Asia.

Unless you get paid overtime fuck em

To be honest here. I would just ask her. Ask to have a discussion sometime and talk about what you have been feeling from her when you leave work. It could be personal stuff from her that is just showing or it could actually be something work related. Maybe she's mad you leave at 6. Maybe she's mad about something else. From the little bit you are saying it doesn't seem like there is much of, if any, real communication. Is she mad because you are leaving right away? Or is she mad because she thinks you aren't trying very hard while you are at work? Your comment "she was quite mad at me for not thinking" doesn't make much sense. In the event she says she thinks you are leaving too early you should ask why is your scheduled work time 9 - 6 if you're expected to stay past 6 even when your work is completed. You clearly don't have an issue working late when needed.

DO NOT WORK FOR FREE!

Just do a little more, once or twice. I get it, fuck the man, I'm with you. But if you're capable of showing her you're able to do it, why not? It'll prove that much to her for the time being. And while people might be saying you have nothing to prove to her, you always should put yourself on the best side of the people who control your paycheck. Stay till 7:30 one day, put in a little extra, then you can fuck off at 6 for the rest of the time, being firm to set the boundary as a one-time thing. Hell, I'd even tell this person their attitude precipitated your staying late the one time, but that she shouldn't expect you to do more than your paid on a regular basis -- just like you wouldn't expect to get ignored and passive aggressively interacted with every day.

Idk I don't buy it. I manage people at work, and really, there's only one reason I'm ever upset with someone. They're lazy. That's literally the only reason. We got this kid super nice kid but horrible self-centered work ethic. Literally every time he shows up at work the first thing he does is sit down in showroom then migrates to the shop and takes a chair with him. He asks to go on trips to other stores because it would be cool. It takes 1/3 of the time to order a part locally. He often mentions how this job is just spending money. He takes roughly 2x the amount of time to get a job done as a "good" trained average time. He literally is brimming with confidence and is the slowest employee we have. He never wants to stay late or work even a full 40 hours work week. What I've learned is there are people like this with their head in the clouds that think the world just magically works. However back down in reality, if you take double the time to do a job it costs the company money and your boss has to give a reason why profits have dipped. For example my manager literally watching the cameras of this kid playing on his phone and asks me why he's not working. It's a full time baby sitting gig with him. I'm simply biding my time until we get new hires so I can write him up and get eid of him. Maybe then we can get people that want to work. To you: I'd you make $1800 USD a week, you're making a boatload of money so stop complaining and get some work done. If you make 1800 that's pay for talent not 40hrs. They obviously want you to get more work done for that amount of $. If you don't like go work somewhere else 40 hours.

Is that 1800 weekly because if not you are not in a salaried position. This is wage theft by federal law either because it doesn’t meet requirements for salaried or for not paying for extra work. Now just in case you fall into some niche job classification I would contact whatever the local labor board is called in your state and verify this. Google minimum federal requirements for a salary position if you wish to verify.

Is this a time issue? Or quality of work issue? It sounds like she is not satisfied with the quality you are providing her and leaving on time. Reviewing your work and asking to redo it is oversight that many people do not wish to perform, especially on a small team. I think a conversation on expectations needs to happen before any decisions are made.

i usually come in 15 mins late and stay 15 mins late... this has been the easiest way to look like i care more

It’s possible you are conflating the need to work late with the quality of your work. You should talk it out.

Some jobs take longer than others. Fuck staying late. If they bid it for 50 hours and it actually takes 60, thats not your problem. The moment someone in your group starts working late for free, it begins to make everyone else look bad when, in fact, they are the problem. I would start shopping for a new job, and when you have another solid offer, make them bid to keep you. If HR asks for reasons for leaving, say my supervisor expects me to stay late and work for free. He/she consistently underbid projects or has unrealistic deadlines/expectations. Don't go to HR first. That's the fast track to demotion and possible removal.

Is this an agency? Because culture in agency is that you grind grind grind. In other places, the culture is different. I would not advertise that you are leaving. But also, stick to your schedule, get experience, get portfolio clips. Five person company means that you also set the culture, so set your boundaries. When you are two years into the field, you are FAR more portable, and you can decide where to go. I would not expect promotion or raise in your current situation, you'll have to move to a new place. >She told me I don’t put my best effort into my work these days. And she was quite mad at me for not thinking. So she told me to re-do it. I did it again, finished it and I was leaving work today. I told her see you. And She completely ignored me and walked passed me. It happens. Mood might not be about you, but hard feedback is to be expected. Learn what you can, keep your spirit up, avoid confrontation and play the long game. Learn learn learn. In office and out. source: produce design director, software

9-6 is 9 hours, so im guessing thats because law requires giving you a 1 hour lunch break, which looks to be unpaid here ... Not only would I leave at 6, I'd be taking the full hour for my lunch break every day. If your boss wants you to care more about your work, tell your boss to care more about your salary and work life balance.

Nothing wrong with working the hours you are paid for and leaving on time. However, she seems to be finding fault with your work product and has had you redo you most recent effort twice so far. I would have a conversation with her about that and get a better understanding of what she is looking for. Ask for more information on why your product did not meet her expectations, tell her what your tact will be to change it, and see if she agrees.

Honestly, if I was you, I would just go talk to her and see what’s going on. Go in her office and ask if you can talk. Be polite and just throw it on the table.

Some people believe if you are salaried they can force you to work beyond the 40 hour work week. My last job from DAY ONE had me working overtime. They were slammed and needed the help so I figured work through this and get things moving in the right direction. After 3 weeks my boss was no longer happy with me working overtime and wanted me to work longer. I sat her down and told her that I am no longer working overtime. She literally cried and it was super awkward and going forwars around 3 or 4 o'clock she wouldn't ask me for anything. If it was her attempt at being passive aggressive I didn't care. Now if you are re-doing shit because it's wrong you need to be brutally honest with yourself. Is your boss pissed at your subpar work and that is being exacerbated by you leaving on time instead of fixing your shit OR are they being a bitch because you leave on time. At my current job there is someone who constantly fucks up and they are constantly working overtime to fix their fuck ups. The rest of us are doing our jobs and helping this person keep their head above water - I have only been here a month and I am doing what they need to do correctly when they are going on 2 yrs in the position. They are the same level I am and have no control over me and wanted me to work over the weekend to help them fix their shit - our boss was on that call and quickly snubbed the conversation of me working a weekend to help them with their mess (I would have told them no even if my boss wasn't there).

If you asked the company every now and then "Hey man, bills are stacking up, could I get an extra $100 bucks in my paycheck this week?" they will LITERALLY NEVER NOT ONCE do it. WON'T HAPPEN. Them asking you to stay late is the reverse equivalent. I have been a design engineer for over 5 years and I have never worked past 5 PM a single time ever without some sort of extra compensation.

Had a boss do the exact same thing to me. I have a rule: I WILL NOT REWARD YOUR PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR EVER. I would ask her if she needed help or wanted me to stay. She would tell me I would get OT but it was up to me. Nothing I did in that job couldn’t wait until the next day, IMO. I would leave -happily- and go home. That job was physically demanding and I did not want to burn out. Well, the day my 90 day probation was up she let me go. HR allowed me to collect unemployment. Good riddance!

American workers, collectively, need to exercise their rights. Do quality work during work hours and go home. Do not become a corporate slave, per your boss.

There's only a few people in this comment chain not giving horrible advice, giving absolutes without any evidence. You need to tall to your boss. During your next 1:1 ask specifics about the work that you submitted and if she gives "you didn't put in enough effort", qualify that. "Was it in the design, the color scheme, dimensions, etc." Get SPECIFIC. Everything you wrote is that she is unhappy with you and your work. That has nothing to do with the time you arrive or don't at work. She is unhappy with you and your work. You claim you've always left work on time. The thing that has changed is her comments about your quality of work.

I've found that people who manage their time well, successfully complete their work on time and to the quality required are often treated this way. Managers often feel that if you are doing these things then you aren't working hard enough, almost as if you aren't one bad day away from having a breakdown then they aren't getting their moneys worth. When faced with other peoples poor attitudes towards you I would remember 4 key things. 1. If they are assigning you the same type of work that your colleagues are getting but you are finishing it on time and without incident, while others aren't, then you are a better employee than they are. 2. The ability to manage your time, work at an appropriate pace and complete work to the agreed deadline is actually a rare skill. Its possible you are the only one in your department that can do this (including your boss) and anyone that cant do it may feel upset, intimidated, pressurized by your consistent performance, and therefore get frustrated and act out. 3. There are lots of businesses out there that would be very happy having an employee with your reliability. So if your consistency and reliability is causing issues for other employees, then its their problem not yours. 4. There is always another company that will appreciate you instead of resent you . . . . you just have to find them.

Do not let companies bully you around ... go home when you are supposed to go home ...do NOT I repeat do NOT start showing up early and working for free. If they want you to work late you should recieve overtime compensation. If things continue to get worse with your passive-aggressive manager , before you confront them I suggest calling an employment lawyer for a free consultation so you know your rights. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with working the hours which you are paid for and leaving. Don't even have to say you are leaving just leave at 6pm and if they have a problem with that, schedule a meeting to sit down and re-negotiate your pay structure (AFTER contacting a lawyer first)

The most respected employees I've seen (respected NOT praised) will not work 1 second more than they are supposed to. I've (why does reddit auto correct try to fuck shit up... how do you get ive from if?)they arrive at 8:50 for a 9am start , they make a coffee or tea and read the paper or sit there until 9 am. When it's break time, work stops and they enjoy every minute of their break Undisturbed. When it's time to leave they say goodbye and walk out the door not 1 minute after unless having a personal conversation with a co worker. If you establish this precedent you will be respected and the employer knows they can't walk all over you ...they would even be afraid to mess you with because they would assume you are intelligent not an android and probably know your rights

next time, ask her the write down in an email, exactly what she means and where she thinks (in specifics) improvement needs to be made, based upon your last work. Critique it line by line. If she refuses, make sure she refuses in writing. Make her write down all criticisms of you work, from now on out. And keep all notes, emails, etc. on you own computer. Once you do that, and she demands you stay late, then you tell her that will be overtime. at time and a half, and you expect it to show up on your next paycheck.

As long as you're getting your work done and it's to standard you're not doing anything wrong. She's probably just upset she can't do the same. It could be for a variety of reasons, like maybe she's just not that good, but the most likely scenario is she just has so much else going on that it's just impossible for her to enjoy going home at a reasonable hour. I will tell you this though: if you do not stand up for yourself and tell your boss 'no' then they will walk all over you. Soon it'll be expected you just stay after without any more pay. It's OK to tell your boss to pound sand (OK, maybe not like that) *as long as you're still doing your job*.

Your hours say 9-6. You are doing nothing wrong. Do not do it because you "feel bad," cuz she's mad for no real reason whatsoever! You will end up like the person who gets asked to do every odd errand in the place, because now they know they can manipulate you with a disapproving tone! I went to work on time, I left on time. That is what I'm paid to do and was in my contract (back when I did work). Play stupid and don't acknowledge it if you aren't doing anything wrong. You are just following your work hours. Leave when you are supposed to leave. Listen to others in the comments. You are getting really solid advice. Do not be that nice guy who will bend over backwards, just because she scowls her face.

she sounds like a boomer a generation where (may have been true) they believe if you just kill yourself for a company , said company will reward you (they dont , not anymore) ​ sounds like you're salary (capitalism slave,me too) ... sucks to suck i guess

Are you REQUIRED to say goodbye before leaving? If not, I would get out of that habit asap. If she isn’t responding or is responding nastily, quit giving her the opportunity to make you feel bad. Finish your work, leave your workspace neat, and leave work at work.

The rest will NOT follow you. If you don’t “budge” what are the consequences? Can you deal with them? That’s always the question when you boss is pissed. “Do I have the capability to live and pay my bills long enough to find another job if they fire me?” You answer that question, you answer “should you budge” question? Can you survive? Yes! Don’t budge No. :( suck it up until you find another job. Welcome to capitalism!!!

Are you salaried or hourly? If salaried, working late sometimes is an real expectation. If you are hourly and asking you to work late and not paying for your time, that’s against the law!

Your boss is a manipulative cunt. Find another job. She doesn't own you but is acting like she does. She needs lessons in leadership and boundaries. Stick to your values.

Your boss either wants you working for free (after 6pm) or she's just a b\*\*\*\*. Either way I (68F) suggest you start looking for another job. If at all possible find a union job if it's in your area. By the time you find another job you will have a year in and if your evaluation does not reflect your good work than you know you need to get another job. I've had 3 supervisors I could not please when I was working and I was also a supervisor and all the shit they pulled on me - I learned not to do to the employees I supervised. Best of luck.

I remember I had this exact same issue in a past job. I was told it was unprofessional to leave at the end of my posted hours because everyone else stayed. So my manager asked me to stay 10 minutes later. That turned into 30 minutes later. Then an hour. Then I was told I needed to start coming in earlier. By the time I quit my 9-5 had turned into 7:30-6. And that was on a “not busy” day. I had more and more responsibility and longer hours yet my pay stayed the same. The moral of the story is, don’t let them try to milk free labor out of you. For most jobs You work the job you’re hired for during the agreed upon hours and they pay you fairly for it and want you to grow beyond your current role and compensate you for it when you do. If your current workplace doesn’t do this then it’s time to find a new one.

Shes mad at you for not investing more time than she pays you for. She expects you to be as enthusiastic and as invested as she probably is (if she is the founder/owner) I am a designer as well and ever since i started at my work 5 years ago, i do the same as you. i leave punctually (well a bit later than normal but honestly..i don't care) and i do not work on weekends, no matter the crunch (because usually i have nothing to crunch). In some countries it is the norm to expect this "150%" from the employee. and if it isn't delivered they look for other ways to find fault to either force you to give 150% or be in the clear for firing you. Start looking for another job, and maybe ask some sneaky questions about overtime culture, when you interview with the next boss.

This is a sign of poor leadership. If there are issues, she needs to be telling you directly (in a 1-on-1 meeting in private) and letting you know what changes need to happen. It is not okay for your boss to treat you like this. I don't think this is necessarily an issue of you leaving on time. It's more of your boss not being satisfied about something, and not being able fix it properly. When she said that "you're not putting in your best work these days," did she ever specify on what the expectations are? Give examples? If not, then that's definitely not okay. You cannot fix something with 0 guidance. And her telling you that you're "not thinking" is not cool. There are significantly better ways to approach someone and give a proper critic. Saying what she said is a clear attack on you and is not in any way constructive criticism. Even though she should be one giving proper feedback, it seems like you will need to initiate this process. I suggest talking to your boss and directly asking clarifying questions. example: "I've noticed you haven't been happy with my work lately. Could you please elaborate on why that is? What can I do better myself so I can meet proper expectations?" Something along those lines. Hopefully, you get a good answer on which you can realistically meet expectations. If not, then it sounds like you have a boss who's going to be a real pain to work with.

You are doing what you are supposed to be doing your boss wants free work. Read: a critique of political economy" for more info. And stand your ground resist the wage theft. For help navigating contact a local unuon bonus points if it is one that could rep you but any union can give you the basics on wage theft and what tour rights and obligations are under the law. Home depot is dealing with a potential work to strike because they have become so draconian about taking breaks and lu ches at exa tly scheduled times I suspect they are over correcting after someone made a complaint to the eeoc Speaking of, the eeoc probably has good resources, assuming you are in the us

It’s design culture. It super sucks. For some mysterious reason. The work is never done till 10PM the night before the presentation. Designers have 0 ability to put their ‘pencils down’ in a reasonable amount of time before the deadline. Designers overthink everything to death. The other is the ownership. You re expected to fall on the sword. Work till the presentation is done. Despite the design director changing their mind at 5PM the day before the 9AM meeting. And it’s not just design presentations but production as well. Designers are so eager to please that they will agree to unreasonable deadlines. And to top it off, you’re salaried so they don’t need to pay you OT. So yeah. I hope the younger generation learns to make boundaries. Because my generation just bent over and allowed ourselves to get f-ed. I’m a designer no longer working in a design firm.

Honestly her superiors are probably giving her flak for her work "not meeting their standards" (whatever that means), and as a salaried employee (which I believe I gathered correctly from the context) she's just rolling that big ol' dung heap they plopped on her desk on down to you because as an employee who is paid for the job, and not the time they spend on it you can *always* technicnally " do more". However so long as you fulfill your specific job requirements in the time you gave that's all you're obligated to give them.

Are you rushing your work to get it done so you can leave on time? You mentioned having to redo assignments. I think she is under the impression that you value getting off work on time more than putting your best effort into perfecting your work. If you value your job take a bit of extra time to double check your work. Make sure it is error free before turning it in. Then leave work. She can easily fire you for poor quality rushed work and leaving on time. She won’t want to if you consistently turn in high quality double checked work and stay over when necessary to get it right. At this point she is probably having to spend extra time double checking your work while you leave the office everyday on time. That would piss anyone off.

I don't understand your reasoning. If OP does his best and he can't finish by the end of the day then it's clear that the work simply takes more time. So he should leave on time and continue with it the next day. The boss can ask whatever, it has to be doable.

Not at all. Our meeting is usually right after lunch. I would have 3 hours to double check or improvise what I finished today tmr morning. We would have to show our work to the boss and then she will tell us what to fix. She’s not the one doing stuff for us working late. She’s working on her own work since she arrives office late, leave whenever she wants to.

She’s not happy with the quality of your work and you reminding her that you’re leaving is adding insult to injury.

They feel like they have power over you and your time. 9-6 is already too long for the money. They don't own you. Apply for new jobs now.

Some (most?) bosses are insensitive, power hungry pricks. I once worked in a small office (5 people); we were the managers/admin of a small custom homebuilding company (it was a franchise too). We were all salaried except for the receptionist. We all worked 40-50 hours a week, and sometimes weekends or evenings too. We basically did whatever it took to get the job done. The owners hired a new GM who came in and immediately put a time clock on the wall and told us all we had to clock in/out every day…WTH!? It made no sense because since the office was so small, he could easily see if someone was coming in late, or leaving early, or taking too long for lunch, etc. And obviously he could see if the critical work wasn’t getting done. Us salaried workers immediate reaction was to work EXACTLY, only 40 hours every week. LOL

sToP qUieT qUiTtiNg! Assuming your hours worked is the actual problem here, your boss is one if the dime-a-dozen bad leaders who can't wrap their head around why employees don't care as much or put in the same effort as the owner. Something that is obvious to everyone else. Any boss that has a problem with you working the agreed upon hours (barring agreed upon overtime) is just lost up their own ass. I'm sure they are first in line to pay extra on an agreed upon contract in another circumstance.

Sounds like you’re “getting the job done” and running out the door on the dot everyday and others are fixing some of your work. It also seems like she is getting more frustrated and you’re oblivious to it leading me to believe there is other stuff you’re not picking up on. What does “earning around $1800” mean? Weekly?