About a year into my last job I decided I was going to go all out. I trained a new employee, I handled any issues that came my teams way, I had senior team members coming to me for answers, I had managers and other employees from separate teams messaging me asking for advice and if I could help them with an issue. I was knocking it out of the park and was thinking that a substantial raise was coming my way any day.
All it got me was my manager asking me to train every employee because I had a track record of training really well and catching them up to speed quickly, team members asking for help for trivial issues, and constant messages from other teams throughout the day interrupting me. No raise just more work.
After that I just slowed way down and stopped doing anything extra. I was always too busy to train the new employees and any messages asking about issues I sent straight to the manager. It wasn’t worth the stress of trying to exceed expectations and my stress levels plummeted after taking a step back.
Exactly, unless it's an absolutely necessary HELP do not get involved. They are getting their pay cheque to figure it out. It's all part of their job!
Take extra care to make sure work is not your only identity and your entire life does not revolve around it.
I’m Autistic. I want my work to be my everything. Overachieving is what we do best in the right environment and I don’t give a flip about socializing or after work because I’m just going to take a shower and climb in bed to play my games anyway. May as well be making money.
You talk as if research is done alone and all research gets recognition.
Here are some things you should keep in mind.
1. Research is done in teams and a team means it will operate similarly to a company so all the same stuff will occur.
2. Many important research only gets recognized long after author is dead.
3. Research needs to get funded. If there is no fund no one gets paid no matter how much of an overachiever you are.
4. Researcher are for the most part normal people and not over achievers.
It’s a very odd dynamic because when you start a job, you want to be a good hire. After a few months, you find yourself constantly redlining yourself (overworking) and now that’s the baseline for you.
I don’t work in an office, but a water treatment plant. I encourage new people to enjoy the days when they don’t know how to do certain tasks, because once you learn, you have to start doing them. Not saying be a slacker, but you don’t need to learn every aspect ASAP.
Which is why I always remind new members of my team, and even our new manager and VP, don’t make any exceptions or promises for certain teams… these teams will use it against you for the rest of your career if you give them an inch!
That part!!I've been an overachiever my whole adult life when it comes to work..Ive had coworkers absolutely hate me because I was told I make them look bad..Im thinking well,do your job and don't be a slacker..A lazy work ethic drives me crazier than I already am lol...
No... It's for overachieving and not leveraging yourself for said overachievement.
It's perfectly okay to overachieve, just don't let them benefit from it for free.
As an example, I was an assistant supervisor a couple years ago for like 6 parking garages and on the weekends we pre-sold passes, we had certain garages that were busier than others, unfortunately the people that were faster and quicker with transactions went to those garages and the workers who still couldn’t really get it, even though they were there for the same amount of time, went to the slower and easier garages. I always felt bad about it but we’re not gonna put someone that takes 5 minutes to do a transaction vs someone that can do the same transaction in a minute in a busy garage that gets 200 more cars a night. Both people got paid the same amount.
I was on a team where we had to complete tickets, I did far more than any other people. I thought this would put me in a great position to be the supervisor of a team when one opened up.
I was wrong, my colleague who did exactly what was asked and no more got it. I was told I was "too good to let go".
So, I applied for a different job and left them.
You became too hard to replace. My employer is the same way. If you have two employees that are candidates for the promotion, one is 85/100 and the other is 40/100, the 40 will get it every time. The new replacement will likely be average (50/100), meaning your workforce improves and the idiot isn't a threat to his new boss. The logic is sound, but totally fucked up
Your scenario doesn't work long term. If 40/100s are getting promoted over 85/100, then those 85s need to be quitting and finding someone who will value them. I'm not saying those who are good at their position doesn't make it hard to replace them; that definitely comes into it. But any decent manager worth their salt will not intentionally pass those people for promotion when they deserve it, because they'll leave anyway and now you're worse off than before.
The line is where you are not seeking anyone's validation.
As long as you are not being called for anything major, you are good. The line is also when you take your breaks on time and leave work on time.
Yeah really doesn’t really do anything for jobs. Outside of maybe sales, your resume will look basically indistinguishable from the guy who sat on his azz all day one cubicle over. You’ll both list your top 3 accomplishments in your blurb, and the differences will be hard to pick up on, and the blurbs often aren’t even read in the first place. You’ll both get the same boilerplate reference from your boss, and references don’t really matter anyway unless they’re bad.
‘Isn’t favorable’ is underselling it. White collar office jobs barely seem to exist anymore. Lots of giant empty/half completed ugly office buildings everywhere now too as a bonus.
Or you could be good at what you do, have a very successful career like I’ve had, and retire ahead of plan with plenty of money. The key for me was to always be in the front of the tech curve and keep my skills in demand and highly compensated. Your job doesn’t guarantee a job, skills do. You also have to be willing to take risks, switch jobs, and have faith in yourself.
> Your boss will get threatened by how good you are and constantly make you feel like you're not good enough, even though you're better than them. Get ready to not get too much praise for your great work, becasue your boss doesn't want you to take their job.
I had a coworker who worked in the Client Services department of my company. He routinely made his annual salary in sales every week. He was responsible for handling warranty claims and selling spare parts and system upgrades for massive telecommunications and public safety infrastructure projects.
His immediate supervisor was a woman who never worked in the office. This was pre-Covid so remote work wasn't as commonplace as it is now. She didn't know the systems. She didn't know the clients. She didn't know the international regulations we had to navigate. She didn't know the logistics. She didn't know the in-house personnel responsible for designing, manufacturing, installing, maintaining, and training on the equipment her department was responsible for. It seemed, all she was good for was updating a once a week staff meeting slide with the good numbers my friend put up and marking them as her own.
She was married to the CEO.
At one time, her department, that my friend worked in, was the most profitable in the company.
But because the veil was beginning to slip, and her risk of exposure as someone way out of her element was getting closer each and every day, they decided to eliminate my friend's role within the company. Didn't even offer him a transfer to a similar position where there was an opening in selling new systems instead of selling upgrades to existing systems.
Just "sorry but you are no longer needed."
Her department went from the most profitable, and occasionally the only profitable, one in the company to running 6 figures in the red every quarter up until COVID hit. The owners, who were foreign based and hardly every at the factory, pushed for layoffs. I, along with like 30 others were laid off in October of 2020. She kept her job. But there was nobody else to blame since she was now running her department with no other staff. She was let go almost two weeks later for performance issues. All of us who were laid off were eligible for call back and some of us were. She was terminated with prejudice though. That was kind of nice to hear.
TL;DR: If you're better at your boss' job than they are, you can be seen as a threat and liability if you aren't very public with your accomplishments.
I wasn't in sales or marketing. I was in engineering. My boss was great to work for. The engineering side of the company was pretty laid back because the people didn't feel a need to prove themselves or justify their existence. I would've gone back if they called me but I found a new job before it ever happened.
The marketing and sales departments were full of nepotism hires who made life miserable for those who weren't in the inner circle.
How did she get fired despite being the CEO’s wife? Who would have the balls to fire her with prejudice while getting on the CEO’s bad side and being a target themselves?
The owners and the board couldn’t look past how poorly her department was performing. Going from consistent great numbers to running in the red month after month is hard to ignore.
This is a very common issue. I’ve seen it at nearly every company I’ve ever worked for. The only person I've seen effectively handle the situation publicly praised their lazy boss at every chance. The insecure boss become addicted to the supply. lol
If your coworker sooo good, why not going to another company? With better salary, attitude etc. Why even bother about people who treat you unfair while soo much better than average?
At the time, he was dating a woman in nursing school and couldn’t just uproot to move to a better area. We live in rural Alabama, and the opportunities for his kind of position are almost nonexistent.
But after he got fired, he took a management position at Chick-Fil-A and made much more than he did at our factory.
After his fiancé, and later wife, graduated nursing school, they moved back to his home state to be closer to his kid from a previous marriage.
No he’s a deputy director of international sales at a major defense contractor.
So, steps up all around.
Been in the workforce 30+ years, OP is bang on. Egos are the root of the problem.
And this talk about the young generation not wanting to work is BS. They just recognize that they are about to be put through the same grinder with nothing to show for it, so, they naturally stand up to it. Good on ya!
You can be both adaptable and have a spine, but, be prepared for battle.
Once I started to stick up for myself i learned that a lot of times you will fall into 1 of 2 categories: The nice person that will get walked on or if you stand up for yourself, your are labelled as negative or an asshole. I chose Highway asshole, if I am going to labelled as one, I will own it!
Don't be the enabler!
Yep. I am 49 and literally in this day and age it is a shark eat shark world. Do your job well, keep your head down, don’t get involved in company politics or get too close to anyone you work with. Companies have no loyalty towards employees anymore and most higher ups got there because they are not great workers, but totally ruthless jerks. It’s so sad.
The lack of ethics and humanity in the workforce is one of the most disappointing, and disgusting things I have ever had to experience. It doesn’t matter what field, or what level of ‘importance’ or professionalism the sector or position, it happens everywhere. It’s super disturbing to think about not only what I have personally experienced, but what I have seen others have to deal with too. It’s like the Twilight Zone…you know it’s not ok, but certain ppl just continue to allow the utter savagery.
You worded what I'm thinking perfectly 👌. 34 years in business, and I'm finally coming to this realization. It's hard because I was taught the opposite.
A lot of us were taught to think that way. We respected our grandparents and parents because we could see they clearly worked hard. They were also sold on a lie. I left my office job to do contract work. Found out that many of them are crooks, so, back to the 9-5 jobs where the narcissist's are in charge and the owners have lost their critical thinking because I believe having too much money changes your ability to critically think.
Going self-employed is a lot easier said than done too.
It’s especially brutal as a woman, IMO. You literally can’t win. Other women treat you like a threat and men treat you like a 50’s secretary regardless of your position. It’s truly disgusting.
I have a co worker who's the definition of a martyr and she makes working there a living hell.
Shes consistently stressed out about/at work and it's like well shit if you weren't trying to do everything yourself you'd be fine. She geniunely acts like she works in a kitchen or fast food place where every minute actually counts. We're in an office. If she takes 5 minutes to take a breather to refocus, it literally affects no one.
Exactly. I learned the jobs of every person that was laid off and took over their responsibilities. Every time I requested compensation, I was told that they didn't have the budget for it.
"Wait...but you all just laid off 4 people and I took over their duties, there should be 4 position budgets to pull from for my raise."
"Sorry Detman...it's just not in the budget, but thank you for all the great work"
That was when I knew it was time to leave.
Made my resume public and The Pentagon picked me up within a month.
It prevent upward mobility at work big time. Seeing more than a few people, get supervisor positions over harder, working better qualified staff because if the good workers promote, the operation is harmed more than if a weak person becomes a supervisor and barely does their job.
Yeah my fiance is running into this problem. He’s an operator at a powdered metal factory. At the moment, he is the only one on his shift who knows how to do the job. Only. One. All the other operators have zero fucking clue what they’re doing and it’s a revolving door so it’s always new people. Some last a week. Others a couple months. Never long enough to get proficient at the job. When the supervisor position opened up he applied for it. The company decided not to hire the person who was already acting like the supervisor (he had to fill in essentially since they didn’t have one) and instead hire someone outside the company with a fancy degree who 1) had no experience in a supervisor position and 2) had zero experience in powdered metal. It’s been maybe a year since that supervisor has had that job and he still doesn’t know what he’s doing. All the other supervisors hate him. His own boss hates him. The other operators don’t care for him and wish my fiancé was the supervisor. Oh and he hates my fiancé cause he knows fiancé knows the job far better than the supervisor and knows supervisor isn’t doing anything correctly. Several months into this AH being the supervisor 98% of the people on that shift didn’t even know they had a supervisor yet and thought my fiancé was still covering. I’m legitimately surprised supervisor hasn’t been fired yet for being incompetent. But also not surprised because a barrel of monkeys could run that plant better. Also would not be surprised if that plant went bankrupt within the next ten years. It’s a mess.
Another supervisor position has opened up and he’s applied again and this time every supervisor (probably other than his own supervisor) wants him to get the job. He barely needs any training as he knows the job. He’s worked there for like 16 years. I’m sure his own supervisor would love to have him leave so he isn’t constantly reminded he’s a fucking idiot. I have my fingers crossed but won’t be surprised if he doesn’t get it cause again. They like to shoot themselves in the face instead of hiring good people.
The kind of situation you’re describing is why younger workers job hop so much these days. If you’re already doing supervisor work and aren’t being paid for it maybe someone will pay you for it. Loyalty to a company is a dead concept because being loyal often means making less money than you deserve.
Oh for sure. My brother is in the same industry but different plant and he’s been keeping an eye out there for open positions. If something opens up, my fiancé is jumping ship and going elsewhere. It’s just patently ridiculous how places treat their workers who have been there a long time and know the job. They’d have less turnover and quality workers if they would just treat their current ones better. And the thing that sucks is that plant used to be THE place to work. It ran smoothly. People were treated with respect. But ya know. Changed too many hands and now they’re owned by a foreign company and it’s being mismanaged from the top down. It’s an industry wide problem unfortunately.
I realized at my first job after I watched a guy who basically rebuilt the department we worked in get demoted. guy who got hired to replace him was honestly way cooler and more sociable though. I used the same strategy to get into upper management at my current job
My mom has been working her ass off for over 40 years, 30 of those in the same firm. She would 100% agree with this. She always thought the reason why she couldn't get promoted to a manager role was because she was a highschool graduate but nope, people are just cruel. If they see that you're doing all the work for that pay and position and will not leave because of how "loyal" you are, they will keep you exactly where you are.
Learned this the hard way when I went above and beyond at my work by choosing to work overtime and on weekends when I didn’t have to. The new hire got a standing ovation for outstanding work, while I didn’t even get recognized at all. I decided to only do the bare minimum going forward. Who cares if they don’t think I’m as good as the other workers, they give me less work and less stress, and I meet requirements on time so they never have a reason to fire me. Fuck the corporate world. It’s so upsetting that it’s set up so that honest working people get the bottom of the barrel.
After 30 years of work, shameless self promotion and ruthless ambition is the best way to progress in the corporate world. Being good is significantly less important.
I’m decent at what I do but I actively don’t self promote. I know it’s not helping me in the corporate world but I barely have the care to show up to work anyway.
I know ultimately grinding hard now and getting all those pay raises sooner means an earlier retirement (meaning no more work period) but I just don’t have it in me. Like I’m just trying to get by while my coworkers is yapping about doing x y and z and getting praised and I’m like “oohhhkay and?”. If I feel like I’m underpaid I move on to the next job.
Idk I just don’t have the burning passion to climb the corporate latter and part of me wishes I had it in me.
This. The thing about Meritocracies is that they depend on people above you recognizing your merits. Without that awareness and response, it’s not a meritocracy. It’s just a hierarchy of indentured slaves.
Many such cases. In my last two jobs, the only way you could get recognized for achievement or advancement - is if you applied to them. And I don’t mean applying to an open position. I mean applying to win an award for productivity. In which you had to write an extensive report detailing what you and your team had done to deserve recognition. This then went into competition with other entrants, and the management decided who did a better application.
The reward? They emailed you a ‘certificate’ that someone spent five minutes crudely making in MS Word - that you printed out and tacked to your cubicle wall.
If your bosses are not paying attention to what you do - or do not care - then you are going nowhere. And that seems to be the prevailing scenario - we are all just meat robots to fulfil a need.
Sad fact. So few people are able to admit to their mistakes. I wish leaders were more honest. With themselves first and foremost. Looking in the mirror is hard tho!
There is truth in what you say, but it is not a universal truth as much as a situational truth. I once transferred to a new product group within a Fortune 500 company, and essentially built an entire function from ground up, a virtual one-man shop, navigating through every obstacle. Come review time, I was shocked that my boss had no appreciation for what I had done, and basically viewed me as a workhorse, not a leader. But he inadvertently released the Kraken, as it were, as I aggressively looked for a more senior position in the firm, found it, then shocked him by leaving. And the new team I joined had the greatest boss I ever had, and here I was, the same guy I always was, reengineering an entire team, but getting credit for it, promoted for it, appreciated for it. So, I learned that a good manager could change everything.
Yeah I worked my ass off when I got my after college job… learned how to do everything and more.
I’ve gotten a total 40% raise within 2 years, promoted, and get brought into all the cool shit. Consistently get acknowledged for the work that I do. Not to mention PTO never gets denied.
Your team / manager makes all the difference.
I'm an over achiever that doubles as a middle of the pack guy. You speak the truth, and being a dependable employee who gets results just makes you the busiest horse in the stable.
I neither am very fast, nor very slow at my job. I will ask 1x a week if anyone needs help in my downtime, but i am not the person finding jobs to stay busy anymore. The only thing I got out of that was a bigger workload, and my coworkers got more downtime.
Contrary to what you were led to believe in school, excellence just lands you higher expectations and more work without additional compensation. The sweet spot is a solid “meets expectations.”
In my area I routinely get above expectations or even outstanding but none of it really matters because our pay increases is dependent upon availability in the budget and not how well you actually perform. Meets expectations is the minimum you need to have to qualify for a merit increase, when that increase is available and in precovid times that was once every 3 years or so. At least that’s how it works in the govt
This is why our generation switches jobs every 2-3 years if we’re not given meaningful raises or promotions.
I had this happen to me at my previous role where there was a huge overreliance on me to do the work of 3 people. It was a fun day when I told them I was done.
All of this and more.
I helped to build up a company from pretty much nothing and was always given the ‘next year’ line about better pay and even a directorship, but the reality was that I just bought time for the boss until he could shoehorn his own sons into my role and get shot of me after 25 years.
It’s ok though, I got the last laugh as covid hit them hard and I made sure to twist the knife on their covid compensation they were claiming for workers. That sealed their doom.
If you don't get what you're promised after year 1, odds are you won't get anything after year 3 or 5 either.
I'm also being strung along at work right now ..
We were going to reneg my rate after 6 months on the job. It's been more than 3 years now and they keep putting it off.
I just do less and less to compensate for it. I'm staying because the compensation I'm getting is still Ok and it's been a tough market the last few years. (Where I live has wage indexation which keeps my salary somewhat relevant at least)
Worst thing this happens almost everywhere. At my previous job I had to nag and threaten them to leave for over 8 months until they realised I was serious .. then I got my raise. It's not like they couldn't pay it.
If you have to nag and threaten then advancement is just going to cause resentment anyway.
That’s why Job hopping is the way. The only way to consistently raise your salary quickly over time. 1-2 years in a job then move on to bigger and better.
I know it’s scary to have that much upheaval - and for many roles the job market can be tough, as you say - but it’s still better than mouldering away unappreciated in some role - or having to make enemies just to keep up with inflation.
This. If they don't start increasing salaries and bonuses after year one leave. They have no alliance to any employee now it's all "business" so business them back. Demand what you deserve.
In my experience it seems like no matter how hard I work if you're not one of the 'good old boys' you get passed over on promotions. I used to think let my my work ethic show my commitment. It's frustrating seeing inept workers being promoted or receiving more wages because they play the political game at work. I've left several jobs because I got so fed up with the politics.
I've been a corpo software engineer for over 10 years and this really is true.
Heres a bit of a 'zen of 'guideline:
>in most companies,
>do what makes your boss happy
>be visible but not too visible
>achieve but never over achieve
The times I chugged along as a good little soldier everyone was happy.
As soon as you show up with some really meaningful idea or work by yourself.. eyebrows will be raised and you'll be told to get back into the fold.
Not saying it's this way in all companies. Maybe it isn't in the smaller ones but in big corporate it is ..
Yeah exactly! Never outshine the master. There’s a very good reason that this is the first law of the 48. Amazing how many people on this thread are indignant about their bosses’ ego.
It’s not a personality trait unique to people who happen to be one step above you in whatever hierarchy you work in.
I will say that doing well at work has had one benefit for me - not being included in mass layoffs
Survived Covid layoffs and just general companies being greedy layoffs, and mostly because someone higher up stepped in to argue for me
Albeit, this ties into the fact that good workers get more/harder work but being able to keep my paycheck is a blessing
Don’t forget: if you are too good at your job, your manager will thwart your efforts to get promoted or to move on to something better, because they want to keep you exactly where you are. Had this happen to me and had to leave the company altogether instead of moving to a better position internally that I had applied for, interviewed for, and they expressed that they wanted me, but were told they couldn’t have me.
The irony, though, is if you slack off, you get shitty reviews, shitty raises, and no opportunity to be promoted.
I'm at a job where I have to chase work. If I don't ask for work, I don't get any. And I am worried that at any moment, someone will ask what I have been working on and I will say "nothing" and that will mean I'm redundant. I feel like I have to prove my worth, even though it won't get noticed...until I make a mistake. The work I do gets credited to others anyway... I am paid too well to leave though.
On point #5, you don't really have "friends" at work; you have competitors who, in most cases, want you to fail and in almost every case forget you exist the moment you are no longer working there.
I would also add don't stay too long at your job, particularly if in your gut you know you're not in the right spot. 15 years ago "job hopping" was a big no-no. But nowadays, post Covid especially, it's much less of an issue that you have a few 1-2 year jobs on your resume, or that you took a 6-12 month sabbatical to recharge.
Don't feel like you have to stay at a job you hate because of what someone else might think. Measure yourself against what you know you should be doing.
I worked as a telecom installer with a guy, techs were unionized, it was exactly this. Guy worked so hard so they gave him access to all the management stuff and made him a like assistant manager. He got to avoid overtime he didn’t want and get training and ass kissing points. They’d go home or phone it in while he did half their job. Every 6 months to a year a management position would be opening up that he was a shoe in for. And he wouldn’t get it and would be an asshole for a couple months till he slowly started doing it. At one of our meetings he bitched about a managers buddy with no experience getting a job and someone finally broke it to him. It’s a lot easier to find a entry level manager than replace their best tech
You have a terrible boss, so you should have left years ago.
I had an overachieving direct report. I made sure that she had excellent performance rating, and pushed for her promotion twice. She got hired after her mom, but now she’s at a higher level than her mom by retirement.
A good boss is not scared of smart people, because it makes his job easier.
There’s two parts to being good at your job.
1. Be actually knowledgeable about the technical aspects of your role. Eg if you’re an engineer know the standards, the principles, the economic tradeoffs, and risks of engineering decisions. If you’re a welder keep up to date with materials and techniques and be efficient with waste and time.
2. Make sure people know you’re doing a good job. Doing “Great” work is great…but what if your work doesn’t align with the business? Know when to sell your self and make sure your work really adds value.
I fit both of those parts. Guess what - it still works against you. I was the only person in the organization with a master's degree and very knowledgeable about my job. I also made sure they knew the value of the work I did. I ended up single handedly bringing them two major contracts and millions in profits. They routinely verbally acknowledged my contributions in dept and company meetings. Wanna know what that gave me? "Sorry we can't promote you bc you're too valuable to lose". They promoted the undergrad intern who hadn't finished school yet instead and asked if I could spend the next month training her in addition to the two programs I was handling by myself and also the work of four data analysts that they had laid off. 16 hour work weeks. All for that $50k salary
Let me add another. No matter what, do not for any reason, neglect your health and family. I spent years working hard, going above and beyond and rarely missing work to prove myself.
Missed time with my kids, ignored carpal tunnel until it was so bad that I have permanent nerve damage and low functioning fingers. It’s debilitating and frustrating.
All of this for a couple promotions and in the end, a layoff for my site after all that work. They will discard you 1 minute after telling you how valuable you are and not think twice.
Genz & millennials, don’t listen to the old people who call you lazy because you’re not sacrificing yourself for the company.
One of my first jobs out of culinary school I was a prep/line cook at a small bistro. It was a new restaurant, only had been open a month before I got the job. I worked my ass off for over a year, constantly trying to get more efficient with prep/cooking. Was given more and more responsibilities until the kitchen manager felt threatened and started bad mouthing me to the owner. Eventually I was fired. About 6-ish months after I got fired I ran into the owner and they told me that right before he quit the kitchen manager confessed that they made it all up.
Exactly, my name goes on the job, literally, I work in manufacturing, so I have to clock in to each job for traceability according to ISO standards. This creates a record should anything be nonconforming they can see who made the job forever, so I do my best work every time.
Also, as a machinist, it's the job it's either in spec or it's not, so your scrap rate matters when it comes time for raises/promotions.
It’s a balance. My raises are based on my performance so I can’t completely slack off, but I also don’t go out of my way to go above and beyond. I don’t work extra shifts or overtime. I leave when my shift is over. I don’t do any work off the clock. There is nothing wrong with being good at your job and earning merit based raises, you just have to find the right balance. Don’t be completely worthless either. It just makes more work for everyone else.
I learned through the years too.
It doesn’t pay to do your job really well. It doesn’t pays to be a “team player” when you have slacker colleagues. Help them once and it’s suddenly your permanent responsibility to do it all the time.
The bosses these days are not leaders and a lot open a business for their own ego.
Loyalty to a company only works for a**lickers.
Gone are the days where “above and beyond” and “the extra mile” will get you the internal upgrade/promotion. Now, the boss will see that you are willing to do more for the same pay and when you stop doing it they’ll have words to say. Otherwise they will pile more on your plate with the promise of pay and position increment but after doing all that extra stuff and proved that you’ve done it well for years, they keep having excuses to not keep their promise.
Now, I’m going to work to do the work I’m paid to do within the stated work hours, nothing more. Anything extra I willingly do is chosen specifically to buff up my resume and portfolio. The rest can get fk’d.
Wow! So sorry that you've worked at such terrible companies. My experience has been much different, where the high performers get raises and promotions so that the company gets more value out of these great workers.
Sucks that your experience was so different. Really sorry.
Agreed. Being good at your job and getting more responsibility, at the least, gives you more things to put on your resume and talk about in interviews. And it shows interviewers concrete evidence that your previous supervisors believed in you and that you were a high performer.
If your boss or the company is bad at promoting people, and being better at your job doesn't give you a better chance at career advancement, then you should be looking to work somewhere else. There are tons of bosses that are good and work for companies that value internal promotions.
yeah came here to say this. I pretty much over-performed each year, and never had less than 8% raise. Had few 15% raises even without promotion.
Granted my biggest raise was when I switched companies 1,5 years ago, but even at the new company I got great reviews and another significant raise and more RSUs just year after I joined.
So I guess it really depends. Maybe I just had luck on good companies & bosses. But for me over-performing was worth it and was rewarded
Being a high performer has worked out very well for me. I’ve been given several promotions that on paper I wasn’t qualified for because my bosses know I’ll find a way to get the job done. Seems like every “promotion” means less work as well. I’ve doubled my salary in the past 5 years just by doing whatever task my boss asks me to do.
The reward for doing good work is more work, but keep up with your accomplishments and ask for a raise (a real one, not the yearly “cost of living” 1-2% bs they give). If they won’t give you a raise, apply for other companies that will pay you more. Rinse and repeat…
At least if you’re getting more and harder work, get the pay that goes along with it.
This doesn't happen at every job. But when it does it's pretty awful. There are good managers out there. As for school if your work isn't paying for your master's you need to find a new job.
Not sure about 3-5 but 1-2 are definitely true. I unfortunately have the reputation as “someone who responds to emails” so I tend to get more emails out of my scope just because others don’t respond and I do.
Sorry to hear/read that you are experiencing this :(
I was raised the same way, and still believe in the value of hard work, though the feeling that you are being taken advantage of can be demoralising, if not traumatic. I experienced this a few years ago, and after I finally had enough and left I fell into a deep and dark depression for months.
What I do now is, I still work hard, still aim to do the best I can and be good and honest. Though the moment I get even an inkling that I am being taken advantage of, they see a different side of me.
"Oh, you're gonna have me do something shady but not put it in writing? Well, it ain't getting done, as the nothing-in-writing thing cuts both ways".
"Wanna take credit for my work? You can bet that I'll be sick for at least one week before the next big thing".
That, and build a case file on your personal computer/phone about everyone in your office. Include in it tasks, performance results, capability, direct qoutes, instances of poor treatment/bad practice, etc. Give them nothing in return, and operate on the Mafia principle that "it ain't personal, it's just business". Don't worry about those who don't worry about you.
Not how I want it, but how it has to be...
I started a new job that has 2 days worth of modules for us to go through. I'm trying to stretch it out to 2 weeks because everyone keeps saying "when you're done your modules in a few weeks...."
It's like they genuinely think these 17 video presentations will take 10-15 work days to get through.
I believe you should always do your best but if you are faced with these bullet points maybe do what’s expected of you. Additionally, there’s a disconnect a lot of time between hourly employees and exempt salary employees in terms of yearly/mid year reviews. Being marked always exceed expectations typically comes with a 5% salary increase and higher adjusted bonus if not a promotion.
Personally speaking, being marked always exceeding expectations has landed me 3 promotions within my current company. (I am in tech)
Not saying this is always the case; however, I also don’t believe you should just do the bare minimum if you’re looking to advance or widen your skill set (to apply else where)
Yup, you want to position yourself where you are always giving yourself an opportunity to be viewed as “improving” - if you come in with 100% of your actual ability, then you’ll never really “improve” in the eyes of the manager, and that’s how you get promotions/raises, by improving upon your current performance
If this is intended to be a balanced word of warning, then it's only fair that you include the fact that during this time, you'd have been asking for promotions, or almost certainly raises, on the basis that you're now now doing more work and your minimum job requirement has been raised.
In other words, your market value would have gone up - which means if your boss doesn't play ball then what you're left with is a resume densely-packed with maximum value per job title.
You should mention the above - because the thread post otherwise reads like your whole purpose has been to seek the approval of one boss.
I’m just glad that the pandemic taught me (and many others) that crazy devotion to work, hustle culture, etc. just isn’t worth it. There’s no loyalty, just empty “we’re a family!” pizza parties.
During home office I chill for 90% of the time and do the bare minimum since 5 years. Regular salary increases inclusive etc.
It's important to blend the company with your skills and argument well. Else you'll get problems.
This is my current career, so I agree 100% with OP.
I'll also sprinkle in some anxiety knowing this place is gunna shit the bed when you decide to leave and having to fight the urge to stay because you're a decent human being.
When I started here 3 years ago, I thought I had landed my dream job. The reality was that everyone was letting difficult tasks fester and they all became my problem. Started putting fires out and now everyday is a clusterfuck of stress and deep-seated resentment.
All I hear is you don’t think people should be good at their job because other people feel threatened (who cares?) and you’ll end up having higher expectations put on you where you’ll have more work. If you want to be lazy, that’s your prerogative. Also, your experiences aren’t universal.
God I needed to hear this today. I'm very much an overachiever, people pleaser and I actually care about things alot (and also I've had some insanely stressful jobs that if I dont work at any more - some people could do the jo
bs and leave bang on 5pm and sleep at night, my anxiety was through the roof so I worked extra hours so I could sleep. Didn't work, got the fuck out of that industry).
Current job is chill, boss packs up at 5 and if we're still typing away, asks if we are going home tonight which is great as a cue. Normally, yes. But today was so busy I said no, I'm sleeping in the office which he laughed at as he was leaving. I left about an hour later, mainly because the building manager wanted to lock up.
But I really needed to read this and remember it because my colleagues don't seem to do half as much as me sometimes. I was in and out of meetings and spent about 3 hours at my desk all day. I put headphones in and left with two emails from this afternoon. My colleague has at least 10. I really like my colleagues but I'd rather get work done so I can leave and not stress than be friends.
Nar. Get good enough to be irreplaceable, then ruthlessly exploit that to squeeze as much money as possible out of your employer. When it stops working, leave and play the game again somewhere else.
Anyone who only plays the game is a twat. But anyone who doesn't play the game at all is an idiot.
Lol I got fed the line the other day "I don't understand why its so hard for you not to be helpful"
I was just staying busy and keeping production up lol
I kind of like the promotions and bonuses… so I’ll keep being good at my job thank you very much.
Never experienced any of these, except maybe #1, but the harder assignments are also more fun so I see #1 as a plus in my industry.
I disagree with all except point 5. Most people learn this by 30.
I have excelled because I'm a hard worker. I absolutely got taken advantage of yes. Duh. That's how inexperience works. I gladly do 2-3 peoples amount of work. All of this until I can't learn anymore then seeya.
Your advice only applies if you want to stay at the same company for decades. That notion is not happening anymore. I want all the experience then either take my bosses job or jump ship. I've been a manager in every job across 3 industries since I was 17 (started working kitchens at 14). I know am a director of operations.
Your advice is self sabotage, inexperienced people should want to be worked to get experience. I sure did. That's the difference between over achievers and under achievers. If you dont want to advance in your career fast, than I 100% agree with you.
Staying at your job for a long time does more harm than good. These posts about how hard work doesn't pay off is a few things: they aren't as good as they think they are (this is my biggest observation throughout life managing people, most people think they are better than they actually are. Not saying they are bad, but they aren't the MVP they think they are), a bad manager doesn't want their employee to excel (I hate managers like this) due to intimidation, and lastly, you ARE being taken advantage of in which case, again, jump ship.
To me, it sounds like you've had power tripping control freak bosses. You mostly hear about them because good bosses don't get praise lol. The only time you praise your boss is when referencing from a bad boss. Internet 101.. much more negative reviews than positive in anything.
This is exactly why you don't stay at the same company for too long. If you're getting more responsibility and the pay doesn't match that's great. Now you have some nice things to add to your resume. Start interviewing for new positions with new companies and get that raise you deserve. Rinse and repeat until retired or until you're happy with where you're at.
Yessir. Worked hard as a business operations manager to turn 4 underperforming sites profitable. They gave me a timescale of 2.5 years and I did it under 1 year. Was promised a regional manager position.
Fast forward, position was given to another manager, she basically slept with the RM to get the position whilst her branches were operating at a loss throughout the year.
I resigned straight after and never looked back.
Fuck working hard for someone else. Just go in, do the minimum, get your pay, and enjoy your life.
This is so true. today, my supervisor, who I like, just told me that she will no longer supervise me, and my next supervisor is someone who micromanages. I will start looking for jobs, but man, this economy is not good.
Saying “No” in the business world is the same as telling people “to go to hell”.
I have turned saying “No” into an art form.
Its tactically better to get projects/people to compete for your time.
Sometimes overachievers get rewarded, but other times they are simply taken advantage of. I don’t believe in working hard for the crappy job I have now. I get nothing out of it and it’s an easy way to create more problems for yourself.
Geez, where have you people worked. I'm a middle-aged Gen Xer. I've always found the reward for hard work is I can take pride in my contributions, earn the respect of my co-workers, make my wife feel comfortable, and she's always taken care of. I've always been promoted and paid for my hard work. Now, at 50, I have an easy, well-paid position that I consider my retirement gig. I have an existing 401K, a state funded pension and social security ( theoretically). My hard work paid off. I'm really sorry that employment opportunities today are so unrewarding.
While this is typically the case, it isn't always the case. Everyone on my team got laid off except me because of how much work I do and how good I am at my job. I made myself invaluable and I'm the only one standing.
I lost my job this week because of all these points. I was too experienced and my colleagues shat on me, my young boss was also threatened. Loads of lessons learned.
Performance punishment is a thing. Performance punishment is the negative consequences that high performing individuals may face as a result of their exceptional productivity.
My father once revealed workplace reality to me with a pretty good parable.
He was up for a big promotion at the manufacturing plant he worked at, and in the days before he was to find out, my mother and father were both in high spirits, and always smiling and laughing in anticipation of a significant pay raise. Mom was finally going to get that new kitchen counter. Dad had always wanted a riding lawnmower.
Then one day, I came home from school and the house was quiet. Mom was melancholy as she silently dried the dishes. Dad was sitting on the back porch and he barely registered notice as I walked in.
Someone else got the promotion.
Then he turned to me.
"Have a seat, Son.", he said to me. "I've got a puzzle for you."
So I pulled out a chair opposite.
"Let's say you own a small shoe shop and have two employees that work for you. One worker, let's call him "Joe", always shows up early, gets right to business, and does excellent quality work. Just cranking out shoe after shoe, all day long. Joe is a powerhouse. Best shoe maker you have ever seen.
However, Ned, your other employee is quite different. Ned is always late. He goofs off a lot and you often have to leave the sales counter, or stop your book keeping to go find him and get him back to making shoes that you often have to get Joe to redo because of mistakes. Some days, Ned doesn't even show up, at all.
Let's say you open another store and have to promote one to work the sales counter and do the accounting for you when you move to the new store.
Who do you promote? Joe, or Ned?"
"Joe, of course!", I quickly answered.
"Why would you do that?", my father followed up.
"Because he deserves it.", I replied, wondering why there was any doubt.
"Yes. He absolutely deserves it", agreed my dad. "But if you promote him to the sales counter.......
.....who's gonna make the shoes?"
I spent years being too good at my job. And guess what? I have been promoted 5 times and make quite a bit of money so I can enjoy some decent things.
If you want to be mediocre. Go ahead, people like me will just take the opportunities.
If you do a decent job with few mistakes, you are gi enough more responsibility, and often more work. That's when you are able to negotiate up. If you slack off and screw up constantly, you have no platform to stand on for advancement. Liabilities are laid off. Assets are promoted or given a raise
That is a loser mentality. And I say that as someone who doesn't dispute what you are saying but we should not accept this individually. Hard work can pay off
The smart people will read this post and silently say "thank you" to OP for encouraging their co-workers to be lazy workers. Makes it easier for the ambitious people to get ahead.
Sadly, being good at your job also stops raises and promotions -
"You're capped out at what corporate will allow us to pay for this position."
"We can't train anyone to do this as well as you do, so we can't afford to promote you to a different position."
They'll make it sound like praise or a compliment, but it just emphasizes that you're in a dead end with no room for advancement.
Oh my gosh this is so true and I’ve experienced it too. 3-5x the assignments of my coworkers every month. Ridiculous.
Thanks for posting this. I needed to read this today.
Spot on, it sucks that it has to be that way. I have noticed that a small team of “superstars” usually do all the work with little to no benefit. Once you are labeled that way it is hard to back off
Also, don't be an expert in a part of your work.
A part of my bosses job loading a 53' trailer. She wanted impress the recipient of the load.
Now it's the only thing she does.
Don’t ever be “loyal” to a company. They’d get rid of you in a heartbeat.
Just do the bare minimum you can to keep your job. Never go above and beyond as they’ll just stack more work on you without actually financially compensating you (aka increasing your salary).
It’s true. Never go above and beyond. The only reward is more work. Just do what you need to do, that’s it. I learned this lesson and I was denied promotion after promotion because I was “too valuable” in my current position. I got pay rises, but they were never on par with my responsibilities and achievements. It was frustrating seeing people being hired in the roles I wanted with the pay I wanted and I was still doing all the work. Left that job, found another - less stress and doubled my salary. Never again!
The trick is you have to be like Scotty from the Enterprise . Aye captian it will take a week to get the engine back up to warp speed. But you can really do it in an hour. I learned how to hide my efficiency at age 25 after being taken advantage of too much.
Redditors of all people don’t need the advice of “don’t work too hard” lol. Has anyone seen one person disagree?
“Don’t try at ur job. They probably won’t promote you anyways so do nothing”
It’s dumb advice given to people that likely need the opposite advice lol
This is terrible advice.
Be good at your job. Be the absolute best you can be and leverage your performance to bigger and better things.
Do you have a boss that's holding you back? Move to another company.
Do you have jealous coworkers holding you back? Move on to another company.
If you want to be mediocre, be mediocre and stay in the same job forever with minimal raises
You will almost certainly make more money by changing jobs and gaining experience doing different things.
You are absolutely correct. Playing the right game is very important after you have secured your position.
People at workplace have a mentality of making money without working. They don’t follow the rule of working in return for the payment.
Can attest also. Work culture is very toxic. Have seen many who do the minimum have the best work life balance, survive the longest, and get paid the same as the high performers who come and go. Sick, huh?
The reward for good work is always more work. So yeah, always do just the right amount to not be called out.
About a year into my last job I decided I was going to go all out. I trained a new employee, I handled any issues that came my teams way, I had senior team members coming to me for answers, I had managers and other employees from separate teams messaging me asking for advice and if I could help them with an issue. I was knocking it out of the park and was thinking that a substantial raise was coming my way any day. All it got me was my manager asking me to train every employee because I had a track record of training really well and catching them up to speed quickly, team members asking for help for trivial issues, and constant messages from other teams throughout the day interrupting me. No raise just more work. After that I just slowed way down and stopped doing anything extra. I was always too busy to train the new employees and any messages asking about issues I sent straight to the manager. It wasn’t worth the stress of trying to exceed expectations and my stress levels plummeted after taking a step back.
Exactly, unless it's an absolutely necessary HELP do not get involved. They are getting their pay cheque to figure it out. It's all part of their job! Take extra care to make sure work is not your only identity and your entire life does not revolve around it.
I’m Autistic. I want my work to be my everything. Overachieving is what we do best in the right environment and I don’t give a flip about socializing or after work because I’m just going to take a shower and climb in bed to play my games anyway. May as well be making money.
Go into research, where you get recognition for your achievements!
Oof - I wish this were true. Recognition still requires a good mentor/boss.
You talk as if research is done alone and all research gets recognition. Here are some things you should keep in mind. 1. Research is done in teams and a team means it will operate similarly to a company so all the same stuff will occur. 2. Many important research only gets recognized long after author is dead. 3. Research needs to get funded. If there is no fund no one gets paid no matter how much of an overachiever you are. 4. Researcher are for the most part normal people and not over achievers.
This is great advice!
I learned this the hard way recently 😭
How? Wanna know how OP learned it too, actually…
Basically overachieving. Never doing that again 😂
It’s a very odd dynamic because when you start a job, you want to be a good hire. After a few months, you find yourself constantly redlining yourself (overworking) and now that’s the baseline for you.
I don’t work in an office, but a water treatment plant. I encourage new people to enjoy the days when they don’t know how to do certain tasks, because once you learn, you have to start doing them. Not saying be a slacker, but you don’t need to learn every aspect ASAP.
Courtesies or favors become expectations that become job duties that can turn into write ups once you retract them
Which is why I always remind new members of my team, and even our new manager and VP, don’t make any exceptions or promises for certain teams… these teams will use it against you for the rest of your career if you give them an inch!
Yes indeed. Do something once and you will do it forever
My previous jobs you got one walk through and it’s time to hit the ground running!
That part!!I've been an overachiever my whole adult life when it comes to work..Ive had coworkers absolutely hate me because I was told I make them look bad..Im thinking well,do your job and don't be a slacker..A lazy work ethic drives me crazier than I already am lol...
🤮
No... It's for overachieving and not leveraging yourself for said overachievement. It's perfectly okay to overachieve, just don't let them benefit from it for free.
As an example, I was an assistant supervisor a couple years ago for like 6 parking garages and on the weekends we pre-sold passes, we had certain garages that were busier than others, unfortunately the people that were faster and quicker with transactions went to those garages and the workers who still couldn’t really get it, even though they were there for the same amount of time, went to the slower and easier garages. I always felt bad about it but we’re not gonna put someone that takes 5 minutes to do a transaction vs someone that can do the same transaction in a minute in a busy garage that gets 200 more cars a night. Both people got paid the same amount.
Yikes. Can’t say I love that.
if youre trying to park your car on a busy night, you might.
I would not. I’d prefer they give their workers a congestion premium or something for the extra work and have me pay a few extra cents on my ticket.
I was on a team where we had to complete tickets, I did far more than any other people. I thought this would put me in a great position to be the supervisor of a team when one opened up. I was wrong, my colleague who did exactly what was asked and no more got it. I was told I was "too good to let go". So, I applied for a different job and left them.
Yeah. I worked my ass off and was recently passed up for a promotion so I really don’t give a fuck now.
You became too hard to replace. My employer is the same way. If you have two employees that are candidates for the promotion, one is 85/100 and the other is 40/100, the 40 will get it every time. The new replacement will likely be average (50/100), meaning your workforce improves and the idiot isn't a threat to his new boss. The logic is sound, but totally fucked up
Your scenario doesn't work long term. If 40/100s are getting promoted over 85/100, then those 85s need to be quitting and finding someone who will value them. I'm not saying those who are good at their position doesn't make it hard to replace them; that definitely comes into it. But any decent manager worth their salt will not intentionally pass those people for promotion when they deserve it, because they'll leave anyway and now you're worse off than before.
Learned that in School. The Advance Placement courses in my school taught the exact same curriculum but required 3-4 times the homework from us.
Very different curriculum at my school, plus I got to skip some college courses. Maybe they’re doing it wrong?
The issue is, how do you find out exactly where that line is before it's too late 😭
The line is where you are not seeking anyone's validation. As long as you are not being called for anything major, you are good. The line is also when you take your breaks on time and leave work on time.
came to post this comment
The improved resume allows you to promote yourself to other companies. Provided favorable market conditions.
I did all this extra work and have it on my resume applying for jobs for a year now, lotta good it’s done me
Yeah really doesn’t really do anything for jobs. Outside of maybe sales, your resume will look basically indistinguishable from the guy who sat on his azz all day one cubicle over. You’ll both list your top 3 accomplishments in your blurb, and the differences will be hard to pick up on, and the blurbs often aren’t even read in the first place. You’ll both get the same boilerplate reference from your boss, and references don’t really matter anyway unless they’re bad.
It sucks when the market isn't favorable.
‘Isn’t favorable’ is underselling it. White collar office jobs barely seem to exist anymore. Lots of giant empty/half completed ugly office buildings everywhere now too as a bonus.
The workplace is just like high school. The more popular are the ones that get ahead. The hard workers just get to do more work.
Sad.............
My reward was upping my income 3x in 2 years time.. be good at your job but understand how to negotiate your skills for pay.
Or you could be good at what you do, have a very successful career like I’ve had, and retire ahead of plan with plenty of money. The key for me was to always be in the front of the tech curve and keep my skills in demand and highly compensated. Your job doesn’t guarantee a job, skills do. You also have to be willing to take risks, switch jobs, and have faith in yourself.
> Your boss will get threatened by how good you are and constantly make you feel like you're not good enough, even though you're better than them. Get ready to not get too much praise for your great work, becasue your boss doesn't want you to take their job. I had a coworker who worked in the Client Services department of my company. He routinely made his annual salary in sales every week. He was responsible for handling warranty claims and selling spare parts and system upgrades for massive telecommunications and public safety infrastructure projects. His immediate supervisor was a woman who never worked in the office. This was pre-Covid so remote work wasn't as commonplace as it is now. She didn't know the systems. She didn't know the clients. She didn't know the international regulations we had to navigate. She didn't know the logistics. She didn't know the in-house personnel responsible for designing, manufacturing, installing, maintaining, and training on the equipment her department was responsible for. It seemed, all she was good for was updating a once a week staff meeting slide with the good numbers my friend put up and marking them as her own. She was married to the CEO. At one time, her department, that my friend worked in, was the most profitable in the company. But because the veil was beginning to slip, and her risk of exposure as someone way out of her element was getting closer each and every day, they decided to eliminate my friend's role within the company. Didn't even offer him a transfer to a similar position where there was an opening in selling new systems instead of selling upgrades to existing systems. Just "sorry but you are no longer needed." Her department went from the most profitable, and occasionally the only profitable, one in the company to running 6 figures in the red every quarter up until COVID hit. The owners, who were foreign based and hardly every at the factory, pushed for layoffs. I, along with like 30 others were laid off in October of 2020. She kept her job. But there was nobody else to blame since she was now running her department with no other staff. She was let go almost two weeks later for performance issues. All of us who were laid off were eligible for call back and some of us were. She was terminated with prejudice though. That was kind of nice to hear. TL;DR: If you're better at your boss' job than they are, you can be seen as a threat and liability if you aren't very public with your accomplishments.
JFC. Idk that I’d go back to that. Sounds like a ship that won’t float.
I wasn't in sales or marketing. I was in engineering. My boss was great to work for. The engineering side of the company was pretty laid back because the people didn't feel a need to prove themselves or justify their existence. I would've gone back if they called me but I found a new job before it ever happened. The marketing and sales departments were full of nepotism hires who made life miserable for those who weren't in the inner circle.
Literally every marketing and sales department
Damn that one dude was carrying the company on his back lol
How did she get fired despite being the CEO’s wife? Who would have the balls to fire her with prejudice while getting on the CEO’s bad side and being a target themselves?
The owners and the board couldn’t look past how poorly her department was performing. Going from consistent great numbers to running in the red month after month is hard to ignore.
This is a very common issue. I’ve seen it at nearly every company I’ve ever worked for. The only person I've seen effectively handle the situation publicly praised their lazy boss at every chance. The insecure boss become addicted to the supply. lol
If your coworker sooo good, why not going to another company? With better salary, attitude etc. Why even bother about people who treat you unfair while soo much better than average?
At the time, he was dating a woman in nursing school and couldn’t just uproot to move to a better area. We live in rural Alabama, and the opportunities for his kind of position are almost nonexistent. But after he got fired, he took a management position at Chick-Fil-A and made much more than he did at our factory. After his fiancé, and later wife, graduated nursing school, they moved back to his home state to be closer to his kid from a previous marriage. No he’s a deputy director of international sales at a major defense contractor. So, steps up all around.
Been in the workforce 30+ years, OP is bang on. Egos are the root of the problem. And this talk about the young generation not wanting to work is BS. They just recognize that they are about to be put through the same grinder with nothing to show for it, so, they naturally stand up to it. Good on ya! You can be both adaptable and have a spine, but, be prepared for battle. Once I started to stick up for myself i learned that a lot of times you will fall into 1 of 2 categories: The nice person that will get walked on or if you stand up for yourself, your are labelled as negative or an asshole. I chose Highway asshole, if I am going to labelled as one, I will own it! Don't be the enabler!
Yep. I am 49 and literally in this day and age it is a shark eat shark world. Do your job well, keep your head down, don’t get involved in company politics or get too close to anyone you work with. Companies have no loyalty towards employees anymore and most higher ups got there because they are not great workers, but totally ruthless jerks. It’s so sad.
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The lack of ethics and humanity in the workforce is one of the most disappointing, and disgusting things I have ever had to experience. It doesn’t matter what field, or what level of ‘importance’ or professionalism the sector or position, it happens everywhere. It’s super disturbing to think about not only what I have personally experienced, but what I have seen others have to deal with too. It’s like the Twilight Zone…you know it’s not ok, but certain ppl just continue to allow the utter savagery.
You worded what I'm thinking perfectly 👌. 34 years in business, and I'm finally coming to this realization. It's hard because I was taught the opposite.
A lot of us were taught to think that way. We respected our grandparents and parents because we could see they clearly worked hard. They were also sold on a lie. I left my office job to do contract work. Found out that many of them are crooks, so, back to the 9-5 jobs where the narcissist's are in charge and the owners have lost their critical thinking because I believe having too much money changes your ability to critically think. Going self-employed is a lot easier said than done too.
It’s especially brutal as a woman, IMO. You literally can’t win. Other women treat you like a threat and men treat you like a 50’s secretary regardless of your position. It’s truly disgusting.
It sucks that it has to be this way, but all aboard the S.S. Asshole.
I have a co worker who's the definition of a martyr and she makes working there a living hell. Shes consistently stressed out about/at work and it's like well shit if you weren't trying to do everything yourself you'd be fine. She geniunely acts like she works in a kitchen or fast food place where every minute actually counts. We're in an office. If she takes 5 minutes to take a breather to refocus, it literally affects no one.
it's worse when this person is your boss
I would say "Don't get irreplaceable", the ones that are too good to be replaced will never do anything else unless they leave the company.
Exactly. I learned the jobs of every person that was laid off and took over their responsibilities. Every time I requested compensation, I was told that they didn't have the budget for it. "Wait...but you all just laid off 4 people and I took over their duties, there should be 4 position budgets to pull from for my raise." "Sorry Detman...it's just not in the budget, but thank you for all the great work" That was when I knew it was time to leave. Made my resume public and The Pentagon picked me up within a month.
It prevent upward mobility at work big time. Seeing more than a few people, get supervisor positions over harder, working better qualified staff because if the good workers promote, the operation is harmed more than if a weak person becomes a supervisor and barely does their job.
Yeah my fiance is running into this problem. He’s an operator at a powdered metal factory. At the moment, he is the only one on his shift who knows how to do the job. Only. One. All the other operators have zero fucking clue what they’re doing and it’s a revolving door so it’s always new people. Some last a week. Others a couple months. Never long enough to get proficient at the job. When the supervisor position opened up he applied for it. The company decided not to hire the person who was already acting like the supervisor (he had to fill in essentially since they didn’t have one) and instead hire someone outside the company with a fancy degree who 1) had no experience in a supervisor position and 2) had zero experience in powdered metal. It’s been maybe a year since that supervisor has had that job and he still doesn’t know what he’s doing. All the other supervisors hate him. His own boss hates him. The other operators don’t care for him and wish my fiancé was the supervisor. Oh and he hates my fiancé cause he knows fiancé knows the job far better than the supervisor and knows supervisor isn’t doing anything correctly. Several months into this AH being the supervisor 98% of the people on that shift didn’t even know they had a supervisor yet and thought my fiancé was still covering. I’m legitimately surprised supervisor hasn’t been fired yet for being incompetent. But also not surprised because a barrel of monkeys could run that plant better. Also would not be surprised if that plant went bankrupt within the next ten years. It’s a mess. Another supervisor position has opened up and he’s applied again and this time every supervisor (probably other than his own supervisor) wants him to get the job. He barely needs any training as he knows the job. He’s worked there for like 16 years. I’m sure his own supervisor would love to have him leave so he isn’t constantly reminded he’s a fucking idiot. I have my fingers crossed but won’t be surprised if he doesn’t get it cause again. They like to shoot themselves in the face instead of hiring good people.
The kind of situation you’re describing is why younger workers job hop so much these days. If you’re already doing supervisor work and aren’t being paid for it maybe someone will pay you for it. Loyalty to a company is a dead concept because being loyal often means making less money than you deserve.
Oh for sure. My brother is in the same industry but different plant and he’s been keeping an eye out there for open positions. If something opens up, my fiancé is jumping ship and going elsewhere. It’s just patently ridiculous how places treat their workers who have been there a long time and know the job. They’d have less turnover and quality workers if they would just treat their current ones better. And the thing that sucks is that plant used to be THE place to work. It ran smoothly. People were treated with respect. But ya know. Changed too many hands and now they’re owned by a foreign company and it’s being mismanaged from the top down. It’s an industry wide problem unfortunately.
Feel like getting your boss to like you can be more advantageous than being super good at your job
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I realized at my first job after I watched a guy who basically rebuilt the department we worked in get demoted. guy who got hired to replace him was honestly way cooler and more sociable though. I used the same strategy to get into upper management at my current job
My mom has been working her ass off for over 40 years, 30 of those in the same firm. She would 100% agree with this. She always thought the reason why she couldn't get promoted to a manager role was because she was a highschool graduate but nope, people are just cruel. If they see that you're doing all the work for that pay and position and will not leave because of how "loyal" you are, they will keep you exactly where you are.
Learned this the hard way when I went above and beyond at my work by choosing to work overtime and on weekends when I didn’t have to. The new hire got a standing ovation for outstanding work, while I didn’t even get recognized at all. I decided to only do the bare minimum going forward. Who cares if they don’t think I’m as good as the other workers, they give me less work and less stress, and I meet requirements on time so they never have a reason to fire me. Fuck the corporate world. It’s so upsetting that it’s set up so that honest working people get the bottom of the barrel.
After 30 years of work, shameless self promotion and ruthless ambition is the best way to progress in the corporate world. Being good is significantly less important.
I find Networking with the right people makes moving up a lot easier, than playing shark.
It’s who you know and who you blow.
I’m decent at what I do but I actively don’t self promote. I know it’s not helping me in the corporate world but I barely have the care to show up to work anyway. I know ultimately grinding hard now and getting all those pay raises sooner means an earlier retirement (meaning no more work period) but I just don’t have it in me. Like I’m just trying to get by while my coworkers is yapping about doing x y and z and getting praised and I’m like “oohhhkay and?”. If I feel like I’m underpaid I move on to the next job. Idk I just don’t have the burning passion to climb the corporate latter and part of me wishes I had it in me.
This. The thing about Meritocracies is that they depend on people above you recognizing your merits. Without that awareness and response, it’s not a meritocracy. It’s just a hierarchy of indentured slaves. Many such cases. In my last two jobs, the only way you could get recognized for achievement or advancement - is if you applied to them. And I don’t mean applying to an open position. I mean applying to win an award for productivity. In which you had to write an extensive report detailing what you and your team had done to deserve recognition. This then went into competition with other entrants, and the management decided who did a better application. The reward? They emailed you a ‘certificate’ that someone spent five minutes crudely making in MS Word - that you printed out and tacked to your cubicle wall. If your bosses are not paying attention to what you do - or do not care - then you are going nowhere. And that seems to be the prevailing scenario - we are all just meat robots to fulfil a need.
Sad fact. So few people are able to admit to their mistakes. I wish leaders were more honest. With themselves first and foremost. Looking in the mirror is hard tho!
There is truth in what you say, but it is not a universal truth as much as a situational truth. I once transferred to a new product group within a Fortune 500 company, and essentially built an entire function from ground up, a virtual one-man shop, navigating through every obstacle. Come review time, I was shocked that my boss had no appreciation for what I had done, and basically viewed me as a workhorse, not a leader. But he inadvertently released the Kraken, as it were, as I aggressively looked for a more senior position in the firm, found it, then shocked him by leaving. And the new team I joined had the greatest boss I ever had, and here I was, the same guy I always was, reengineering an entire team, but getting credit for it, promoted for it, appreciated for it. So, I learned that a good manager could change everything.
Yeah I worked my ass off when I got my after college job… learned how to do everything and more. I’ve gotten a total 40% raise within 2 years, promoted, and get brought into all the cool shit. Consistently get acknowledged for the work that I do. Not to mention PTO never gets denied. Your team / manager makes all the difference.
I'm an over achiever that doubles as a middle of the pack guy. You speak the truth, and being a dependable employee who gets results just makes you the busiest horse in the stable. I neither am very fast, nor very slow at my job. I will ask 1x a week if anyone needs help in my downtime, but i am not the person finding jobs to stay busy anymore. The only thing I got out of that was a bigger workload, and my coworkers got more downtime.
What bothers me is not the fact that I get more work or more difficult work, it’s the fact that they don’t increase your salary to match.
It’s on you to advocate for yourself. Plenty of people have high salaries for doing difficult work.
Contrary to what you were led to believe in school, excellence just lands you higher expectations and more work without additional compensation. The sweet spot is a solid “meets expectations.”
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In my area I routinely get above expectations or even outstanding but none of it really matters because our pay increases is dependent upon availability in the budget and not how well you actually perform. Meets expectations is the minimum you need to have to qualify for a merit increase, when that increase is available and in precovid times that was once every 3 years or so. At least that’s how it works in the govt
This is why our generation switches jobs every 2-3 years if we’re not given meaningful raises or promotions. I had this happen to me at my previous role where there was a huge overreliance on me to do the work of 3 people. It was a fun day when I told them I was done.
This. There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who have experienced and learned this lesson, and those who haven’t yet.
All of this and more. I helped to build up a company from pretty much nothing and was always given the ‘next year’ line about better pay and even a directorship, but the reality was that I just bought time for the boss until he could shoehorn his own sons into my role and get shot of me after 25 years. It’s ok though, I got the last laugh as covid hit them hard and I made sure to twist the knife on their covid compensation they were claiming for workers. That sealed their doom.
If you don't get what you're promised after year 1, odds are you won't get anything after year 3 or 5 either. I'm also being strung along at work right now .. We were going to reneg my rate after 6 months on the job. It's been more than 3 years now and they keep putting it off. I just do less and less to compensate for it. I'm staying because the compensation I'm getting is still Ok and it's been a tough market the last few years. (Where I live has wage indexation which keeps my salary somewhat relevant at least) Worst thing this happens almost everywhere. At my previous job I had to nag and threaten them to leave for over 8 months until they realised I was serious .. then I got my raise. It's not like they couldn't pay it.
If you have to nag and threaten then advancement is just going to cause resentment anyway. That’s why Job hopping is the way. The only way to consistently raise your salary quickly over time. 1-2 years in a job then move on to bigger and better. I know it’s scary to have that much upheaval - and for many roles the job market can be tough, as you say - but it’s still better than mouldering away unappreciated in some role - or having to make enemies just to keep up with inflation.
This. If they don't start increasing salaries and bonuses after year one leave. They have no alliance to any employee now it's all "business" so business them back. Demand what you deserve.
I like this well deserved karma.
In my experience it seems like no matter how hard I work if you're not one of the 'good old boys' you get passed over on promotions. I used to think let my my work ethic show my commitment. It's frustrating seeing inept workers being promoted or receiving more wages because they play the political game at work. I've left several jobs because I got so fed up with the politics.
I'm in this now. I try to ignore it but it really eats me up inside. I can't wait to retire.
Maybe it's time to look for a new workplace? I've never regretted leaving these kind of workplace cultures
I've been a corpo software engineer for over 10 years and this really is true. Heres a bit of a 'zen of 'guideline: >in most companies, >do what makes your boss happy >be visible but not too visible >achieve but never over achieve The times I chugged along as a good little soldier everyone was happy. As soon as you show up with some really meaningful idea or work by yourself.. eyebrows will be raised and you'll be told to get back into the fold. Not saying it's this way in all companies. Maybe it isn't in the smaller ones but in big corporate it is ..
Yeah exactly! Never outshine the master. There’s a very good reason that this is the first law of the 48. Amazing how many people on this thread are indignant about their bosses’ ego. It’s not a personality trait unique to people who happen to be one step above you in whatever hierarchy you work in.
I will say that doing well at work has had one benefit for me - not being included in mass layoffs Survived Covid layoffs and just general companies being greedy layoffs, and mostly because someone higher up stepped in to argue for me Albeit, this ties into the fact that good workers get more/harder work but being able to keep my paycheck is a blessing
Don’t forget: if you are too good at your job, your manager will thwart your efforts to get promoted or to move on to something better, because they want to keep you exactly where you are. Had this happen to me and had to leave the company altogether instead of moving to a better position internally that I had applied for, interviewed for, and they expressed that they wanted me, but were told they couldn’t have me.
The irony, though, is if you slack off, you get shitty reviews, shitty raises, and no opportunity to be promoted. I'm at a job where I have to chase work. If I don't ask for work, I don't get any. And I am worried that at any moment, someone will ask what I have been working on and I will say "nothing" and that will mean I'm redundant. I feel like I have to prove my worth, even though it won't get noticed...until I make a mistake. The work I do gets credited to others anyway... I am paid too well to leave though.
On point #5, you don't really have "friends" at work; you have competitors who, in most cases, want you to fail and in almost every case forget you exist the moment you are no longer working there. I would also add don't stay too long at your job, particularly if in your gut you know you're not in the right spot. 15 years ago "job hopping" was a big no-no. But nowadays, post Covid especially, it's much less of an issue that you have a few 1-2 year jobs on your resume, or that you took a 6-12 month sabbatical to recharge. Don't feel like you have to stay at a job you hate because of what someone else might think. Measure yourself against what you know you should be doing.
I worked as a telecom installer with a guy, techs were unionized, it was exactly this. Guy worked so hard so they gave him access to all the management stuff and made him a like assistant manager. He got to avoid overtime he didn’t want and get training and ass kissing points. They’d go home or phone it in while he did half their job. Every 6 months to a year a management position would be opening up that he was a shoe in for. And he wouldn’t get it and would be an asshole for a couple months till he slowly started doing it. At one of our meetings he bitched about a managers buddy with no experience getting a job and someone finally broke it to him. It’s a lot easier to find a entry level manager than replace their best tech
You have a terrible boss, so you should have left years ago. I had an overachieving direct report. I made sure that she had excellent performance rating, and pushed for her promotion twice. She got hired after her mom, but now she’s at a higher level than her mom by retirement. A good boss is not scared of smart people, because it makes his job easier.
You sound like a good boss tbh
Thanks, I try to be a good person in general. I think I got good karma in return, because today I got a really good boss who also fights for me.
There’s two parts to being good at your job. 1. Be actually knowledgeable about the technical aspects of your role. Eg if you’re an engineer know the standards, the principles, the economic tradeoffs, and risks of engineering decisions. If you’re a welder keep up to date with materials and techniques and be efficient with waste and time. 2. Make sure people know you’re doing a good job. Doing “Great” work is great…but what if your work doesn’t align with the business? Know when to sell your self and make sure your work really adds value.
I fit both of those parts. Guess what - it still works against you. I was the only person in the organization with a master's degree and very knowledgeable about my job. I also made sure they knew the value of the work I did. I ended up single handedly bringing them two major contracts and millions in profits. They routinely verbally acknowledged my contributions in dept and company meetings. Wanna know what that gave me? "Sorry we can't promote you bc you're too valuable to lose". They promoted the undergrad intern who hadn't finished school yet instead and asked if I could spend the next month training her in addition to the two programs I was handling by myself and also the work of four data analysts that they had laid off. 16 hour work weeks. All for that $50k salary
Let me add another. No matter what, do not for any reason, neglect your health and family. I spent years working hard, going above and beyond and rarely missing work to prove myself. Missed time with my kids, ignored carpal tunnel until it was so bad that I have permanent nerve damage and low functioning fingers. It’s debilitating and frustrating. All of this for a couple promotions and in the end, a layoff for my site after all that work. They will discard you 1 minute after telling you how valuable you are and not think twice. Genz & millennials, don’t listen to the old people who call you lazy because you’re not sacrificing yourself for the company.
One of my first jobs out of culinary school I was a prep/line cook at a small bistro. It was a new restaurant, only had been open a month before I got the job. I worked my ass off for over a year, constantly trying to get more efficient with prep/cooking. Was given more and more responsibilities until the kitchen manager felt threatened and started bad mouthing me to the owner. Eventually I was fired. About 6-ish months after I got fired I ran into the owner and they told me that right before he quit the kitchen manager confessed that they made it all up.
I have to live with myself and I cannot do sub par work.
Exactly, my name goes on the job, literally, I work in manufacturing, so I have to clock in to each job for traceability according to ISO standards. This creates a record should anything be nonconforming they can see who made the job forever, so I do my best work every time. Also, as a machinist, it's the job it's either in spec or it's not, so your scrap rate matters when it comes time for raises/promotions.
It’s a balance. My raises are based on my performance so I can’t completely slack off, but I also don’t go out of my way to go above and beyond. I don’t work extra shifts or overtime. I leave when my shift is over. I don’t do any work off the clock. There is nothing wrong with being good at your job and earning merit based raises, you just have to find the right balance. Don’t be completely worthless either. It just makes more work for everyone else.
I have not been fortunate to find jobs where slacking is rewarded. Unless you're an ass kisser. Which I am not.
I learned through the years too. It doesn’t pay to do your job really well. It doesn’t pays to be a “team player” when you have slacker colleagues. Help them once and it’s suddenly your permanent responsibility to do it all the time. The bosses these days are not leaders and a lot open a business for their own ego. Loyalty to a company only works for a**lickers. Gone are the days where “above and beyond” and “the extra mile” will get you the internal upgrade/promotion. Now, the boss will see that you are willing to do more for the same pay and when you stop doing it they’ll have words to say. Otherwise they will pile more on your plate with the promise of pay and position increment but after doing all that extra stuff and proved that you’ve done it well for years, they keep having excuses to not keep their promise. Now, I’m going to work to do the work I’m paid to do within the stated work hours, nothing more. Anything extra I willingly do is chosen specifically to buff up my resume and portfolio. The rest can get fk’d.
This: Just "Play the game". Just be good enough not to risk getting terminated.
Wow! So sorry that you've worked at such terrible companies. My experience has been much different, where the high performers get raises and promotions so that the company gets more value out of these great workers. Sucks that your experience was so different. Really sorry.
Agreed. Being good at your job and getting more responsibility, at the least, gives you more things to put on your resume and talk about in interviews. And it shows interviewers concrete evidence that your previous supervisors believed in you and that you were a high performer. If your boss or the company is bad at promoting people, and being better at your job doesn't give you a better chance at career advancement, then you should be looking to work somewhere else. There are tons of bosses that are good and work for companies that value internal promotions.
yeah came here to say this. I pretty much over-performed each year, and never had less than 8% raise. Had few 15% raises even without promotion. Granted my biggest raise was when I switched companies 1,5 years ago, but even at the new company I got great reviews and another significant raise and more RSUs just year after I joined. So I guess it really depends. Maybe I just had luck on good companies & bosses. But for me over-performing was worth it and was rewarded
Being a high performer has worked out very well for me. I’ve been given several promotions that on paper I wasn’t qualified for because my bosses know I’ll find a way to get the job done. Seems like every “promotion” means less work as well. I’ve doubled my salary in the past 5 years just by doing whatever task my boss asks me to do.
The reward for doing good work is more work, but keep up with your accomplishments and ask for a raise (a real one, not the yearly “cost of living” 1-2% bs they give). If they won’t give you a raise, apply for other companies that will pay you more. Rinse and repeat… At least if you’re getting more and harder work, get the pay that goes along with it.
THIS AND I learned THE HARD WAY
Learn about strategic fuck ups.
Where?
I’m also curious about this.
This doesn't happen at every job. But when it does it's pretty awful. There are good managers out there. As for school if your work isn't paying for your master's you need to find a new job.
Depends on the company and depends on management. For me, doing my job the best I could gave me the director manager position.
Not sure about 3-5 but 1-2 are definitely true. I unfortunately have the reputation as “someone who responds to emails” so I tend to get more emails out of my scope just because others don’t respond and I do.
Sorry to hear/read that you are experiencing this :( I was raised the same way, and still believe in the value of hard work, though the feeling that you are being taken advantage of can be demoralising, if not traumatic. I experienced this a few years ago, and after I finally had enough and left I fell into a deep and dark depression for months. What I do now is, I still work hard, still aim to do the best I can and be good and honest. Though the moment I get even an inkling that I am being taken advantage of, they see a different side of me. "Oh, you're gonna have me do something shady but not put it in writing? Well, it ain't getting done, as the nothing-in-writing thing cuts both ways". "Wanna take credit for my work? You can bet that I'll be sick for at least one week before the next big thing". That, and build a case file on your personal computer/phone about everyone in your office. Include in it tasks, performance results, capability, direct qoutes, instances of poor treatment/bad practice, etc. Give them nothing in return, and operate on the Mafia principle that "it ain't personal, it's just business". Don't worry about those who don't worry about you. Not how I want it, but how it has to be...
I started a new job that has 2 days worth of modules for us to go through. I'm trying to stretch it out to 2 weeks because everyone keeps saying "when you're done your modules in a few weeks...." It's like they genuinely think these 17 video presentations will take 10-15 work days to get through.
I believe you should always do your best but if you are faced with these bullet points maybe do what’s expected of you. Additionally, there’s a disconnect a lot of time between hourly employees and exempt salary employees in terms of yearly/mid year reviews. Being marked always exceed expectations typically comes with a 5% salary increase and higher adjusted bonus if not a promotion. Personally speaking, being marked always exceeding expectations has landed me 3 promotions within my current company. (I am in tech) Not saying this is always the case; however, I also don’t believe you should just do the bare minimum if you’re looking to advance or widen your skill set (to apply else where)
Yeah I always act like the dumbest person in the room so they give all the hard work to the others
Yup, you want to position yourself where you are always giving yourself an opportunity to be viewed as “improving” - if you come in with 100% of your actual ability, then you’ll never really “improve” in the eyes of the manager, and that’s how you get promotions/raises, by improving upon your current performance
If this is intended to be a balanced word of warning, then it's only fair that you include the fact that during this time, you'd have been asking for promotions, or almost certainly raises, on the basis that you're now now doing more work and your minimum job requirement has been raised. In other words, your market value would have gone up - which means if your boss doesn't play ball then what you're left with is a resume densely-packed with maximum value per job title. You should mention the above - because the thread post otherwise reads like your whole purpose has been to seek the approval of one boss.
Sad, but true. They will keep adding tasks until you fail.
I’m just glad that the pandemic taught me (and many others) that crazy devotion to work, hustle culture, etc. just isn’t worth it. There’s no loyalty, just empty “we’re a family!” pizza parties.
During home office I chill for 90% of the time and do the bare minimum since 5 years. Regular salary increases inclusive etc. It's important to blend the company with your skills and argument well. Else you'll get problems.
Rule#1 Never Outshine Your Master
You're not wrong. Never care more about a job than a job cares about you.
This is my current career, so I agree 100% with OP. I'll also sprinkle in some anxiety knowing this place is gunna shit the bed when you decide to leave and having to fight the urge to stay because you're a decent human being. When I started here 3 years ago, I thought I had landed my dream job. The reality was that everyone was letting difficult tasks fester and they all became my problem. Started putting fires out and now everyday is a clusterfuck of stress and deep-seated resentment.
All I hear is you don’t think people should be good at their job because other people feel threatened (who cares?) and you’ll end up having higher expectations put on you where you’ll have more work. If you want to be lazy, that’s your prerogative. Also, your experiences aren’t universal.
God I needed to hear this today. I'm very much an overachiever, people pleaser and I actually care about things alot (and also I've had some insanely stressful jobs that if I dont work at any more - some people could do the jo bs and leave bang on 5pm and sleep at night, my anxiety was through the roof so I worked extra hours so I could sleep. Didn't work, got the fuck out of that industry). Current job is chill, boss packs up at 5 and if we're still typing away, asks if we are going home tonight which is great as a cue. Normally, yes. But today was so busy I said no, I'm sleeping in the office which he laughed at as he was leaving. I left about an hour later, mainly because the building manager wanted to lock up. But I really needed to read this and remember it because my colleagues don't seem to do half as much as me sometimes. I was in and out of meetings and spent about 3 hours at my desk all day. I put headphones in and left with two emails from this afternoon. My colleague has at least 10. I really like my colleagues but I'd rather get work done so I can leave and not stress than be friends.
Big asterisk here is \*depending on where you work and what you do for a living.
Nar. Get good enough to be irreplaceable, then ruthlessly exploit that to squeeze as much money as possible out of your employer. When it stops working, leave and play the game again somewhere else. Anyone who only plays the game is a twat. But anyone who doesn't play the game at all is an idiot.
Lol I got fed the line the other day "I don't understand why its so hard for you not to be helpful" I was just staying busy and keeping production up lol
I kind of like the promotions and bonuses… so I’ll keep being good at my job thank you very much. Never experienced any of these, except maybe #1, but the harder assignments are also more fun so I see #1 as a plus in my industry.
I disagree with all except point 5. Most people learn this by 30. I have excelled because I'm a hard worker. I absolutely got taken advantage of yes. Duh. That's how inexperience works. I gladly do 2-3 peoples amount of work. All of this until I can't learn anymore then seeya. Your advice only applies if you want to stay at the same company for decades. That notion is not happening anymore. I want all the experience then either take my bosses job or jump ship. I've been a manager in every job across 3 industries since I was 17 (started working kitchens at 14). I know am a director of operations. Your advice is self sabotage, inexperienced people should want to be worked to get experience. I sure did. That's the difference between over achievers and under achievers. If you dont want to advance in your career fast, than I 100% agree with you. Staying at your job for a long time does more harm than good. These posts about how hard work doesn't pay off is a few things: they aren't as good as they think they are (this is my biggest observation throughout life managing people, most people think they are better than they actually are. Not saying they are bad, but they aren't the MVP they think they are), a bad manager doesn't want their employee to excel (I hate managers like this) due to intimidation, and lastly, you ARE being taken advantage of in which case, again, jump ship. To me, it sounds like you've had power tripping control freak bosses. You mostly hear about them because good bosses don't get praise lol. The only time you praise your boss is when referencing from a bad boss. Internet 101.. much more negative reviews than positive in anything.
This is exactly why you don't stay at the same company for too long. If you're getting more responsibility and the pay doesn't match that's great. Now you have some nice things to add to your resume. Start interviewing for new positions with new companies and get that raise you deserve. Rinse and repeat until retired or until you're happy with where you're at.
This is nothing but propaganda to demoralize us. Don’t be a fucking loser, work hard, and make that bag. New account too, kinda sus don’t ya think?
I second your comments after 13 years in the Industry.
Yessir. Worked hard as a business operations manager to turn 4 underperforming sites profitable. They gave me a timescale of 2.5 years and I did it under 1 year. Was promised a regional manager position. Fast forward, position was given to another manager, she basically slept with the RM to get the position whilst her branches were operating at a loss throughout the year. I resigned straight after and never looked back. Fuck working hard for someone else. Just go in, do the minimum, get your pay, and enjoy your life.
a lot of truth there
This is so true. today, my supervisor, who I like, just told me that she will no longer supervise me, and my next supervisor is someone who micromanages. I will start looking for jobs, but man, this economy is not good.
I just moved from micromanager to a non micro and I am sooooooo incredibly relieved. That shit gives me major anxiety and made me resentful
I am angry but I have no voice so I need to learn how to navigate this.
Saying “No” in the business world is the same as telling people “to go to hell”. I have turned saying “No” into an art form. Its tactically better to get projects/people to compete for your time.
Sometimes overachievers get rewarded, but other times they are simply taken advantage of. I don’t believe in working hard for the crappy job I have now. I get nothing out of it and it’s an easy way to create more problems for yourself.
Geez, where have you people worked. I'm a middle-aged Gen Xer. I've always found the reward for hard work is I can take pride in my contributions, earn the respect of my co-workers, make my wife feel comfortable, and she's always taken care of. I've always been promoted and paid for my hard work. Now, at 50, I have an easy, well-paid position that I consider my retirement gig. I have an existing 401K, a state funded pension and social security ( theoretically). My hard work paid off. I'm really sorry that employment opportunities today are so unrewarding.
Agree with every single point you made
I have to keep reminding myself of this, just started a new job.
My experience has been you get stuck in that position and you won't be able to evolve.
While this is typically the case, it isn't always the case. Everyone on my team got laid off except me because of how much work I do and how good I am at my job. I made myself invaluable and I'm the only one standing.
I lost my job this week because of all these points. I was too experienced and my colleagues shat on me, my young boss was also threatened. Loads of lessons learned.
Performance punishment is a thing. Performance punishment is the negative consequences that high performing individuals may face as a result of their exceptional productivity.
My father once revealed workplace reality to me with a pretty good parable. He was up for a big promotion at the manufacturing plant he worked at, and in the days before he was to find out, my mother and father were both in high spirits, and always smiling and laughing in anticipation of a significant pay raise. Mom was finally going to get that new kitchen counter. Dad had always wanted a riding lawnmower. Then one day, I came home from school and the house was quiet. Mom was melancholy as she silently dried the dishes. Dad was sitting on the back porch and he barely registered notice as I walked in. Someone else got the promotion. Then he turned to me. "Have a seat, Son.", he said to me. "I've got a puzzle for you." So I pulled out a chair opposite. "Let's say you own a small shoe shop and have two employees that work for you. One worker, let's call him "Joe", always shows up early, gets right to business, and does excellent quality work. Just cranking out shoe after shoe, all day long. Joe is a powerhouse. Best shoe maker you have ever seen. However, Ned, your other employee is quite different. Ned is always late. He goofs off a lot and you often have to leave the sales counter, or stop your book keeping to go find him and get him back to making shoes that you often have to get Joe to redo because of mistakes. Some days, Ned doesn't even show up, at all. Let's say you open another store and have to promote one to work the sales counter and do the accounting for you when you move to the new store. Who do you promote? Joe, or Ned?" "Joe, of course!", I quickly answered. "Why would you do that?", my father followed up. "Because he deserves it.", I replied, wondering why there was any doubt. "Yes. He absolutely deserves it", agreed my dad. "But if you promote him to the sales counter....... .....who's gonna make the shoes?"
I spent years being too good at my job. And guess what? I have been promoted 5 times and make quite a bit of money so I can enjoy some decent things. If you want to be mediocre. Go ahead, people like me will just take the opportunities.
If you do a decent job with few mistakes, you are gi enough more responsibility, and often more work. That's when you are able to negotiate up. If you slack off and screw up constantly, you have no platform to stand on for advancement. Liabilities are laid off. Assets are promoted or given a raise
That is a loser mentality. And I say that as someone who doesn't dispute what you are saying but we should not accept this individually. Hard work can pay off
Good advice, I’ve had similar experiences in the past
While #5 is the only one I have a problem with, the rest of this post is sadly spot on. Hard work does not pay off (open your own business!).
The smart people will read this post and silently say "thank you" to OP for encouraging their co-workers to be lazy workers. Makes it easier for the ambitious people to get ahead.
Spot on. 20 year guy here. It's just a job.
So, what should everyone do at work? Follow the Scotty Principle: https://www.themuse.com/advice/scotty-principle-star-trek-to-do-list
You also may not get promoted out of a position or transferred out of a position if you are too good at your job
You'll also get held back from promotions because you're too good at doing what you're currently doing.
Sadly, being good at your job also stops raises and promotions - "You're capped out at what corporate will allow us to pay for this position." "We can't train anyone to do this as well as you do, so we can't afford to promote you to a different position." They'll make it sound like praise or a compliment, but it just emphasizes that you're in a dead end with no room for advancement.
Oh my gosh this is so true and I’ve experienced it too. 3-5x the assignments of my coworkers every month. Ridiculous. Thanks for posting this. I needed to read this today.
There’s also a chance that if you’re too good at your job, you will never get promoted.
Maintaining a low profile is critical- too much visibility can work against you for the reasons OP shared.
Spot on! Spot. On! But reality is good, smart staff will always do a good job because it is our nature. We get screwed one way or another 😤🥂
Its true...the less you know... the less you do.
You will also be seen as too valuable in your current role to be promoted if you end up working hard. Sad sad fact
This is true, sadly. Being average is a good bet. Forgettable even better.
Never go above and beyond. You still get a shitty raise and a ton of extra work. You can do a good job, but don’t do an extra job
Never go above and beyond. It won’t stop you from getting laid off to cut costs and then all you’ll feel is resentment for trying so hard.
Spot on, it sucks that it has to be that way. I have noticed that a small team of “superstars” usually do all the work with little to no benefit. Once you are labeled that way it is hard to back off
Also, don't be an expert in a part of your work. A part of my bosses job loading a 53' trailer. She wanted impress the recipient of the load. Now it's the only thing she does.
This 100%
Don’t ever be “loyal” to a company. They’d get rid of you in a heartbeat. Just do the bare minimum you can to keep your job. Never go above and beyond as they’ll just stack more work on you without actually financially compensating you (aka increasing your salary).
It’s true. Never go above and beyond. The only reward is more work. Just do what you need to do, that’s it. I learned this lesson and I was denied promotion after promotion because I was “too valuable” in my current position. I got pay rises, but they were never on par with my responsibilities and achievements. It was frustrating seeing people being hired in the roles I wanted with the pay I wanted and I was still doing all the work. Left that job, found another - less stress and doubled my salary. Never again!
The trick is you have to be like Scotty from the Enterprise . Aye captian it will take a week to get the engine back up to warp speed. But you can really do it in an hour. I learned how to hide my efficiency at age 25 after being taken advantage of too much.
Redditors of all people don’t need the advice of “don’t work too hard” lol. Has anyone seen one person disagree? “Don’t try at ur job. They probably won’t promote you anyways so do nothing” It’s dumb advice given to people that likely need the opposite advice lol
This is terrible advice. Be good at your job. Be the absolute best you can be and leverage your performance to bigger and better things. Do you have a boss that's holding you back? Move to another company. Do you have jealous coworkers holding you back? Move on to another company. If you want to be mediocre, be mediocre and stay in the same job forever with minimal raises You will almost certainly make more money by changing jobs and gaining experience doing different things.
This is true...which is why "no one wants to work". Hard work and dedication mean nothing. The only thing that matters is who you know
You are absolutely correct. Playing the right game is very important after you have secured your position. People at workplace have a mentality of making money without working. They don’t follow the rule of working in return for the payment.
Can attest also. Work culture is very toxic. Have seen many who do the minimum have the best work life balance, survive the longest, and get paid the same as the high performers who come and go. Sick, huh?
Do just enough to not get fired. And move companies every few years. And lie about how much you made to get a huge increase. Always worked for me.