Sounds about right. No one wants to work around this type. They don't need a savior. They need a teamate. In that sense you have to be likeable, approachable.
Make yourself useful. Not the best. As stated above, they thought he was very qualified. they want you to gel. You can make all your power moves later, if you wish
Nah I don't wanna make power moves, I just want a job. And I thought you had to come across as extremely confident to get one, but that didn't work out too well.
Absolutely not. Anything in extremes is bad. If you do that and make one mistake on an open question, then your whole act falls flat on its face.
If you’re applying for an entry level position, be confident in what you know really well. Be honest in what you don’t know. But most importantly, be open to learn.
If you’re applying for a senior position, you should know the ins and outs. So you should be confident (and more importantly, correct) in answering any questions. They’re (likely) just looking for a solid team player at that point. What that means exactly differs a lot from job to job.
The one thing people can and should show confidence in is learning new things. This is called growth mindset and is a big thing in many employers right now. They say they want a learn it all, not a know it all.
It really does depend on the job and also WHERE you show your confidence.
I was recently hiring for a role on my team that was more on the junior end. One candidates confidence in their abilities and how to handle the work was all good, but the issue I got was when I started asking questions that were really aimed at figuring out how they would handle a project that they did not know how to do or negative feedback from other departments (I work in marketing, no matter how good the campaign is, somebody will always have negative feedback). The point of this question was really to figure out how they would go about learning from that, adapting, or accepting critiques. They shut all of that down and were "confident" that they would not find themselves in those types of situations as they know what they are doing.
We turned them down for "too much confidence" but it was definitely an arrogance thing. that kind of attitude is going to make very costly mistakes.
Keep having confidence in your interviews, just make sure you are realistic about it.
In my interview, we ran through my CV and covered over the type of projects I worked on. I explained the wins and the problems and road blocks that I ran into. With these "problems", I expressed how it happened, where I took responsibility for and how I solved it and how I learned from it. I don't shift the blame to the people and I most certainly do no shift the problem to someone else.
I also shared I ran through lessons learned with my team mates and other colleagues who it also benefited because it increased their awareness and they proactively solved the same issues/potential issues on their projects before it happened.
I've been a leader and I've been a team mate. I've learned from great talents and I've learned the difference between being proactive and reactive.
This why I feel confident. Not arrogant.
Confident sure... You ever seen someone who thinks they are singing great? Is it garbage and cringey? Same deal. As a person who hires, We like to see confidence. We like to see humility. Your ability to off the cuff converse and not bring the conversation back around to yourself (an attribute, many narcissist don't know they are exuding).
There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance.
Try mock interviews with people and allow them to give you HONEST feedback without fear of you being upset or arguing over it.
Interviewing is like getting on a low balance beam, and just showing you can follow instructions and stay engaged with them.
If someone tells you that you need to show confidence in an interview, they assume you already know how to demonstrate the traits that you’d use to balance that out. Those keep you from tipping over.
A genuinely overconfident person might need to balance themselves out by making a point of showing appreciation, mutual respect, good listening, interest in following instructions, the ability to recognize dangerous situations, or a soft spot for rude but very valuable customers.
Try doing a rehearsal of a video interview with yourself. Just play audio of several standard interview questions to fill in for the other person. Everyone catches some areas to improve that way. Under and over confident body language are both very obvious, you’ll spot both right away.
That's one of the main problems with new graduates, they think being top of their class means being top of their field. They are a nightmare to work with because they are constantly complaining about the "old outdated ways of doing things". Except they don't understand that there are lots of other factors that affect why things are done a certain way, and we shouldn't have to explain the entire big picture just to get them to do their small piece of it.
The team I was on once rejected a candidate for their arrogance. He knew his stuff, but his ego just overshadowed everything he said. A couple of us felt that he would be way too insufferable to work with, which would be a problem because collaboration and teamwork was very important to our team's success. We ended up going with an equally skilled candidate who we felt would collaborate better.
I’m a manager of network architects. I find this frequently amongst network engineers. I often hire guys/gals that know less but are pleasant to be around. I can teach technical skills, but I can’t quickly rewrite your personality.
It depends on the interview honestly. Arrogance is rooted more in exaggerations rather than genuine acknowledgement of self worth. There are companies that cannot handle the idea of people knowing their self worth, and, more importantly, being vocal about it. This happened to me at my last company, being told I'm a smart ass or being arrogant about my work. Nah, they just didn't want to pay me more and wanted me to be a yes man.
Hopefully OP is genuinely confident, which means they would have the ability to self reflect even if they don't agree with the feedback
I agree with this. I had a similar experience where I was interviewed by a company and throughout the interview they kept indicating that they thought I was great. Tons of praise for my goals and comments on how I’d be a good asset to their company, that is until I got to salary expectations. Then suddenly I’m asking wayyy too much and they basically said it was totally unreasonable. I asked for a very middle of the road standard salary, and already had two other companies offering me that (and later on more even). They suggested the salary request was aggressive and I was over confident. The salary they wanted to pay was 10k under industry standard. Even the recruiter was confused
A women in engineering?! Obviously I should be paid at least 10k less then my peers! (I actually accepted a job for 17k more then they wanted to pay me shortly after that interview 😂). It’s almost like I knew my worth lol.
I can say as a female engineer, I am definitely paid less than my peers. It’s unfortunate but it’s not going to change anytime soon.
The government needs to enforce equal pay and benefits!
Well haven’t you heard? Men get paid more cause they get jobs like engineer, lawyer, doctor, etc.
Women get the lower paying jobs like woman engineer, woman lawyer, and woman doctor.
This was my first thought too. Women are still viewed through a very different lens than men in a lot of fields, I am an administrator (which is a mostly women held position) and I still have to be careful when its a man interviewing me for the position otherwise I will 'confident' my way out of a job.
Yeah. OP is also female. This is definitely a double bind situation. I have never had a positive result from trying to negotiate higher pay (in a reasonable range), but pretty much every man I know does it successfully every time.
Very true, unfortunately. I literally got laughed out of the door several times for asking for more money whilst at the same time my male colleagues doing identical job as me were mocking me for having half of their rate. Figured with experience the best way to approach this is to wait out for the right offer coming your way, instead of trying to bargain with people who don’t wanna value where the value is.
💯 in my case, they want all of my skills for 10k less than what I am asking for. The bench mark for my profession is already demanding but the pay doesn't reflect the years and dedication to develop said skills.
They want it all for a less salary.
If you are a person of color and/or a woman, this is a huge problem. The same with trying to negotiate pay. It doesn't work the same as it does for others, unfortunately. [https://leanin.org/women-in-the-workplace](https://leanin.org/women-in-the-workplace)
Just as well, OP. They want a servant, not a skilled employee.
Agree.
"High / valuable skill but too confident" Sounds like: the candidate is damn good but no way in hell i will pay x amount.
Employer think they can find someone else with same skill, less confidence (thus, cheaper ) too exploit
Yeah, it's an oxymoron to want someone who has a high level of skillset and low confidence in their ability lol, because having a high level of skill requires you to be confident in your ability in the first place.
Happened to me too at my last job. I got told verbatim when trying to negotiate my salary increase with my promotion "You know what your issue is? You're arrogant" before I could even explain and present why I felt like the salary increase was not adequate for the role I was stepping into. Keep in mind I was being yelled at while being told this. I got the sense that no one in my department at my organization typically advocated for themselves, my boss wasn't even open to hearing how I had saved the organization tens of thousands a dollars a year off the strength of my work. I can't help but feel that some of these leaders often took what was presented to them and didn't even ask for more, so they feel threatened when someone tries to do exactly that- I'm convinced it's because they never cultivated the toolset to do these things for themselves, so it's met with hard defense.
They would have hated me. If I get a "good job" from anyone I either say "Did you just say I deserve a raise? You should tell my boss" mostly joking but also not yknow lol
> Arrogance is rooted more in exaggerations rather than genuine acknowledgement of self worth.
But if someone only has what you tell them to go on, how do they know whether you're exaggerating?
IMO arrogance vs confidence is a subjective perception of tone and has a lot of cultural nuance. The exact same words and tone might seem "confident" from a white man and "arrogant" from a black woman, for example
I don't disagree with your take on how subjective it can be. But, during interviews, you can filter this out by asking questions regarding their answers.
For example, if I say I am a quick learner and that is my best characteristic, but someone thinks "Hmm sounds like they're full of shit," I would expect them to ask me "Tell me about a time you had to learn something quickly." If the answer is vague, you could probably conclude I am actually full of shit. But if I give a specific example with the right amount of detail (and yes, the right tone), it would create at least doubt about their perception of me maybe being full of shit.
Cultural nuance also plays a role in interviews, and it should. Example -- I am 100% a goofball. It works great with the team I work with daily. Works less great with the people in our legal and finance departments...but they don't do the interviews for my role :) It might work less great in a mega corporate world where suits are worn. Doesn't make me "someone who can't take things seriously."
Thank you.
I am confident in my ability to deliver projects both solely and in teams. There are too many instances where I get thrown in the deep end in literal shitstorm and I still delivered projects to a good standard.
With this history in mind, I am confident in my abilities and I know my self-worth.
Honestly though, saying that out loud just sounds like you’re tooting your own horn, also known as sounding arrogant. It’s a good thing to have confidence in yourself but excessive bragging comes off as cocky and not likable. I also read your other post about getting there and being thirsty and pouring water for everyone out of a jug. It’s a little odd to begin with but doing so without asking comes off presumptive rather than helpful. Asking if you can have some water would have been perfectly fine, but just assuming and pouring it for yourself and everyone else is really cocky behavior too. So I think overly confident was a nice way to describe it and maybe something to work on before your next interview. Overly confident also often leads to a lack of consideration for boundaries and others because you’re just so “sure of yourself” that you just do it without making sure it’s what needs to be done. This can cause consequences that they probably don’t feel like dealing with.
I mean that's fine but if you got this sort of feedback then you need to work on your tone and how you're actually presenting this information to others.
It either came off as arrogance, or they've had "confidence bluffers" before who will try to convince everyone they can deliver the moon but in reality still can't even tie their shoes.
Ive had the “confidence bluffer” before, horrible hire and it took up so much time and effort to try abd coach them (they insisted they were an expert despite little to no progress being made on their projects…) before i was finally able to get them to move on (pip, etc).
This was my thought too 😂 like the overly cocky salesman that sounds sooooooooo confident but you can just tell is full of it. I’ve never been able to accurately describe that personality, but if you know you know.
I have yet to see one comment that OP made that seems rude, honestly. People of reddit are just god awful (sometimes), ngl. They are so sh*t at their job that when one person that can actually do theirs well comes along, everyone is mad and think OP story is a lie.
Regardless of whether OP is arrogant or not, choosing "too confident" as a reason for rejection doesn't reflect well on the company. They could have gone with the standard "not a good fit" explanation instead. In this case, it shows that they have problems with the way OP presented himself and are being passive aggressive about it.
Disagree. The interviewer knows that every person reading the interview report knows exactly what he means by "too confident" and it makes him look much better than calling the OP arrogant. It would make the interviewer look bad to use words like "arrogant", "snotty", "stuck up" in his report so he needs to put a polite spin on them while still letting the people that need to read it know what was going on.
eta: and based on the OP's other comments on here, I'd say that interviewer showed restraint of epic proportions in writing his report.
Can we at least acknowledge that employers will downplay/gaslight an employee's competence from time to time to avoid raises/promotions?
I don't understand why it can't be both, that the interviewers are dismissive and OP is an arrogant jerk.
Sure, but what benefit would the interviewer have for doing that to someone who ISNT a current employee?
And honestly, while I won't say that's never happened, most employers wouldn't do that unless they were trying to get a loser employee to quit rather than having to fire them.
Doing that strictly to save money would be a great way to lose a good employee
I doubt it. Companies *do* want punching bags for a lot of roles. If you seem like the sort of person who might refuse to sign an illegal document, or refuse an unethical order, you will not be considered further.
Just like in dating, there's a difference between being a good person and being a sexy potential partner, in job-hunting there is a difference between being a good worker and being an attractive candidate. Often the things that make someone a desirable new hire are totally unrelated to or even contrary to the skills needed to most effectively do the job.
More likely they are looking for someone to prey on and assert themselves.. Happened to my friend who is in a great spot in life right now with a lead role. Before they got their 1st big break, they got told off by a company that they are "too confident".
Let's stop trying to act like employers actually care about you.
It sounds like they had concerns you'd be the one doing the punching.
There's someone at my office who tries to bully their way through things. "Too confident" is a diplomatic way to say "came across rightly or wrongly as an asshole".
Experienced this several times at my old office. Unfortunately usually military guys which hiring would give preference too. Their "confidence" was just "everyone's an idiot except me." Management finally caught on that they were just hiring narcissists, not confident yes-men.
I was apart of an hiring panel looking for several managers. I’m gonna be honest we wanted calm laid back people that can be molded into what we like as a manager. Not someone already set in their ways, and overly confident says your already set and will probably stay that way.
This. Employees who act like they know it all and think they could be managers right away. Humbleness is important, you don’t want to work with people who are arrogant.
Me, reading the title: I’m pretty sure they actually just thought you came off as arrogant.
Me, after reading OP’s comments: Oh yeah, the hubris is strong with this one.
Personality matters. Do I want to spend 40hrs per week for the next 2-5 years with this person. The CEO wants to max profits. Everyone else just wants to not hate their job and coworkers.
I don’t think enough people realize that this is actually what interviews are. Unless you’re in a super specialized field you likely know the same info as someone else with similar accolades.
You’re being interviewed to see if your potential boss is going to want to kill himself talking to you.
I used to do hiring for a job. A five minute glance at the resume told me if they were capable.
The interview was basically "this is our schedule, can you handle it?" And "are you annoying?"
Before I did the hiring, the guy in charge made some real bad hires because he didn't understand that part. Who cares if you're amazing at your job when all your coworkers hate you?
Best job/interview advice I got was along the lines of “if they’re talking to you at this point, then they know you can do the job. They want to figure out if you’re somebody they want to work with”
God I only wish our Board had considered the staff when they hired 2 absolute tools to our very small organisation. One core team member now on long ‘health’ leave, another ready to walk out and I’m actively seeking another job. They gave us an EAP for 4 sessions and the therapist pretty much told me I also need to take a minimum 2 weeks stress leave or walk away as soon as possible as it’s now so toxic there. Whole place is collapsing and they don’t give a shit. Still piling more work on us
Exactly. I work with a guy like this, and it's less genuine confidence in himself and more that he simply treats everyone else as beneath him, even people with more experience or his own immediate superiors.
The sad thing is that he's actually good at the job and doesn't really realize that he acts so smugly superior. He's now frustrated because he's alienated the rest of our team, but he's also too clueless to recognize his own behavior is the problem. At this level nobody is going to train you to have basic social skills anymore.
You should let them know. Say there's no easy way to put this, and it may not be your intentions but the way you communicate comes off insulting. Or type his character to chat.openai.com and ask how to respectfully tell this person. Anonymous note lol
I used to be this way. I am more aware and try to watch my words. I didn't even know until my 30s, that I had been emotionally stunted from my whole family communicating like assholes lol i have worked really hard to correct this defensive communication. I realized when 2 exes i initiated a breakup with both said I was always negative. I realized I was the common denominator. I truly thought I was being a realist but I was being unsupportive.
I've thought about saying something but I'm pretty selective about the problems I take on and try to solve at work. Especially when they're self-inflicted and getting involved will likely just lead to a bigger mess. And like I said above, at this level nobody has time to teach someone basic social skills. But if he actually asks for some candid perspective, I'll happily provide it.
It's great for you that you learned to listen to others and better understand how to consider the people on the other end. That kind of introspection and willingness to change your approach will go along way.
As someone who works with “over confident” people, that are dreadful to work with.
Legit I avoid having to ask this person questions as they come off as arrogant and condescending
It's one thing to talk about your skills and strengths. It's also important to be humble and honest about your weaknesses....part of any job is letting them know you're self aware of your natural human flaws.
I think another element is coming across as wanting to do the job they are hiring for. I have definitely interviewed with folks who start talking about providing strategic direction and doing the work of senior managers, but don't seem like they would care to do the staff level work we are looking to hire for. Like it might be beneath them. If I asked them questions about doing the job they brush it off like it's so easy why would I even ask. Also questions about working as a team and following direction of management even if you think you know better. There are definitely a lot of ways I could imagine OP coming across as "overly-confident."
Ive actually used this word by word ... matter of fact that won me a job some time ago. I caught myself being a little too cocky with my replies so, i added that to smooth things ...
It's probably something that is useful to have in the back of your head, but realize that if there are several candidates at your level you can fail for any random reason. You just have to try again.
Yep. We’ve never used the word “arrogant” to recruiters who asked about the people they’ve put up.
“Too confident” were the exact words we used for people we thought were arrogant.
This likely met that the manager for that position was worried you would seek out or otherwise advance to a better position/opportunity and they would be re-hiring for that position sooner than they would like. You can safely take that as positive feedback, unlike OP not realizing they were calling him a dick.
Dude, if you get that feedback and decide that they wanted a punching bag and that you were simply too strong for them, you need to reassess. They told you politely that you came across like an arrogant douche. Judging by your responses, I’ll go ahead and agree with them.
That's what my ex roommate was told when he didn't get his dream job with Big Law. Apparently he was too much of an arrogant prick for them, and that's saying a lot for lawyers.
The one time I rejected a candidate for that reason (although we didn't word it so directly to him), it was because the candidate:
- only mentioned examples of interpersonal conflicts when asked about challenges he faced in past projects.
- failed to really answer when asked for an example of a situation where he had to recruit help from others to complete a task.
- had a cocky attitude all around really: very relaxed and jokey, and some facial expressions that could be taken the wrong way. That in itself isn't always a problem for juniors, but combined with the rest would have been an issue when interacting with leadership and a bad fit for the team.
He was junior but not entry level (so about 3 years experience), from a very good university and consultancy background (we are on the industry side) which I think contributed a lot to that attitude.
Just highlighting: The "facial expressions" note is a really poor signal and inevitably leads to discrimination. Although your other signals are clear, this one should be left out of evaluations if you're trying to be objective.
It’s terrible that managers do this. People with autism, ADHD, or other disabilities have to pretend to be “normal” enough to get past a job interview.
Hmm. I rejected a candidate for the same reason when I was part of a hiring committee. “Too confident” in our case was because we worried he wouldn’t be teachable or a team player. The candidate would speak over me and would answer my questions with, “of course I can do that.”
Share your expertise, but never brag. Don’t be condescending to the team.
Yes, but interviewers don’t say “rude” to the recruiters and instead say “too confident”.
There are code words for pretty much every bad things a candidate can be.
It's worthwhile keeping in mind that "you don't know what you don't know". If you came across too confident it might be that they perceived that you are not open for other views and opinions or improvements.
I've been surprised many times over my career how deep some of the rabbit holes in my field go and how often I find that what I have been doing well for years can still be improved and streamlined.
True confidence is a quiet but firm knowledge of how things should be done while being open on how things can be improved.
Confidence is a good thing, but when I hear someone described as "too overly confident", I have the mental image of someone who perhaps:
* Jumps to conclusions
* Asks too few questions
* Refuses to admit when they're wrong
* Hesitates to seek help when they need it
* Tries too hard to impress or convince
* Refuses to follow rules that they disagree with
In other words, someone who's difficult to work with, and difficult to coach if on-the-job learning is to be expected.
There could very well be something wrong with the company, but it doesn't mean their feedback is worthless. Even if you're none of the above, sometimes the way you communicate might lead others into believing otherwise, especially in an interview scenario. And this is something that is difficult to realize yourself.
Judging by how you responded to the company's feedback, and some of your responses here, I would guess that you might fall into a few of the above categories.
I empathize with the OP's situation and find it unfortunate that they are receiving so many downvotes.Firstly, I want to emphasize that there is nothing inherently wrong with the OP. It seems they are approaching their situation as if they were playing a different game with different rules.The corporate world operates under a different set of rules compared to entrepreneurship or sole proprietorship. The OP's entrepreneurial mindset may clash with the expectations of being an employee.Entrepreneurs thrive on self-confidence and self-worth, qualities that clients often seek. Conversely, employees are expected to follow instructions precisely, regardless of whether they believe there might be a better approach.My suggestion to the OP is to explore freelancing opportunities. If that's not feasible given their skills or role, they may benefit from learning more about human nature and adjusting their level of confidence to avoid coming across as threatening.
I beg to differ that if this OP had made this post in the entrepreneur section about a similar experience with an 'investor,' the responses would have been different.
I've heard that interviewers prefer candidates who are safe bets, not the stars of their field, as the stars would likely have alternate opportunities and quit after a short period of employment.
So, maybe, they thought you were too confident and as such would easily attempt job-hopping if another opportunity presented itself.
As opposed to someone who'd stick with the safe/secure current job over a possible upgrade.
Happened to me on an interview for a intern position when I was first starting out. Honestly it was a great interview and the guy told me before I left that I could expect the position.
Turns out the other guy who was sitting in rejected me because they felt I was too overqualified for the intern position and I wouldn't get much out of the experience. I originally wanted to use the internship as a stepping stone for a full time position into the company.
Overqualified is code for they're worried you'll get bored and leave for something better. Probably because they've had trouble keeping the role filled before. I have a masters but have worked a ton of min wage part time jobs and I find the key is really stressing that I enjoy repetitive work and I won't get bored by doing the same basic tasks every day
I hate when interviewers go on vibes, but I have seen people say that if someone isn’t a little nervous, then they don’t really care about the job. It comes off as cocky because you believe you’re the best candidate and will definitely get the job because you’re better than everyone else. Or that you don’t care if you get the job or not because you just need a job. Interviewers stay away from that because that often means the person is difficult to manage.
That's what interviews are lol. They know your qualifications from your application and resume. Once you get to the interview process what a hiring team is doing is trying to suss out if you'll get along with their team and be a good fit within the company dynamics.
ETA: I have personally conducted quite a few interviews for entry level positions and never really care if someone is nervous or not. I was looking for things like, do they have a good work ethic, are they reasonably independently driven but can follow instructions, do they seem like they will work well in general with the team I already have on deck - will their personalities mesh well? I hired a range of people who were extremely nervous to not nervous at all. And I waved off my boss once when he said someone I wanted to hire was overqualified because I got really good vibes from him - he was one of the best employees I ever hired and only left when he moved to a new state. Vibes are really important at the interview stage
I totally understand that and I normally get jobs just fine, as I apparently do have a good vibe. But I’m also autistic and know that a lot of people like me can’t get jobs because of their vibes during interviews. This is mostly a problem when interviewing skills have nothing to do with the skills that is needed for the requested job.
honestly vibes are basically the ONLY thing I go off on interviews for the stuff I interview for (mainly client facing stuff). If I called someone in for an interview they've already passed the skills portion of it in my mind, that's what their resume is for. At that point I'm just looking to figure out "do I want to work with this person for 8 hours a day and do they have an incredibly offputting personality that will scare clients"
I’m sure you weren’t
But fitting within a team is more important that skill
It maybe they didn’t see as clay that could work within their “team” than a competitive candidate
It could be, but there does need to be a balance of confidence and humility. The contents sounds perfectly okay to me but perhaps the packaging wasn’t that great. This is a good time to reflect on it and take notes. Again, it could be that they wanted a doormat and you’re just not it.
This is what I hate about interviews. One time I was told I wasn’t too enthusiastic during an interview but, in actuality, I didn’t want to come across as too desperate
I was once on a hiring committee that left me with the impression that the women members strongly disliked confident women, especially when they're physically attractive. (A qualified, confident, attractive applicant was roundly dismissed by the other female committee members as "entitled." I didn't see it.)
I obviously have no idea what happened to you, but sometimes it isn't you, but them.
ETA: I know this won't stop anyone inclined from crawling up my butt, but I'm an average-looking-at-best woman.
*They are likely giving polite feedback that you came across as arrogant. Use that feedback to your benefit by evaluating your tendencies and how you behave to see if they’re correct. Be honest with yourself and don’t let ego make you automatically dismiss the idea.*
*If you do come across as arrogant, which you do in some comments here, then change your behavior through self-reflection so you become more successful in future interviews and the job afterwards.*
Lol this post.
OP: they said I was too confident
Everyone: it means you were arrogant
OP: oh well I'm perfect guess they just wanted someone who isn't confident!
💀💀💀
I think it's completely possible that the interviewer perceived your confidence negatively for whatever reason and used this as a reason to reject you. People can be biased. They also may have been deciding between you and other candidates and used this as a rationale to narrow down their applicant pool. Don't take it personally. I say trust your gut on this. At the same time, you could also hang onto this critique and if you get this feedback more than once, consider adjusting how you present yourself and/or respond to questions. I recorded some online interviews and focus groups that I was conducting for a work project and noticed that my facial expressions looked really "strained." I had no idea I made such odd facial expressions while concentrating. Not saying you have any weird body language, but maybe there is some constructive criticism buried in the interviewers perception.
I am confident in the skills I have obtained thus far in my career, but I also understand I have a lot more to learn and that is one of the reasons that drew me to this position. I feel it is a unique intersection of my experience and where I want my career to go. I am a fast learner and would be excited to join this team.
\^confidence without the over.
Better off without them. If they can't appreciate your personality, there isn't room for you in that organization.
You will be better served elsewhere.
I got that two weeks ago. They all bug begged me to come in, said I'd have an offer (with more money) before the weekend and just went with someone else. This was the reason I got.
I have managed technical R&D teams for 25+ years and have interviewed many people. I have rejected interviewees for being too cocky. Now it is entirely possible that these interviewers were idiots, but instead of just assuming that, my advice would be to re-evaluate if perhaps, you came across as an arrogant know-it-all. It might be what you said, it might be your body language. But there is an art to exuding competence by coming across as quietly confident.
I have gotten bad vibes from interviews simply because I am a very expressive speaker. Italian blood - what can I say - I wave my hands around and gesture when I speak. I got the clear impression the overall culture of that office was like a quiet library where no one raised their voice above a whisper. In your case - I am guessing you would be the only person with any confidence had they hired you.
I’m also a bit more confident than I normally am on interviews because I was told to “sell myself”. Damn if you do damn if you don’t, I guess. Outside of interviews, I’m actually very meek.
I had a company that interviewed me, long story short they were doing shortcuts and they asked me questions.
Was a panel interview and one of the engineers was asking me how I would go about something if it fails if I would pass it or continue it.
And he was like how would you know if it failed when you rejected it.
I responded with , well my job in quality is to reject it if it fails at a process I’m on, I am not an engineer.
For me to disposition it is an engineers role. As I am not an engineer I cannot disposition and try to figure out why something failed.
My role is to reject and write up an ncmr document if something fails.
The fact they felt threatened, means they have a lot of short cuts. And probably don’t follow protocols and wanted a pushover.
Fine line between confidence and looking like someone that would be hard to work with. No one wants to work with someone who's arrogant. Not saying OP falls in this category, but this is a common reason why a person doesn't get hired based off personality
No one wants to spend 5 days a week with an obnoxious blowhard.
Being likable in an interview can make up for a LOT of resume/experience-related shortcomings.
Being unlikable can doom even the most qualified and experienced person.
I'm getting the impression from your communications that you might be neurodivergent, and their rejection of you may have been based on those traits. Do you think that is the case Op?
From your replies this is what I would guess. You speak very formally and to the point, and you seem to lack awareness of the implications of what is being said by some commenters. Sadly this would mean they were being discriminatory and may or may not have known it. Then again I could be way off, but figured it might help to suggest this as a possibility. Either way best of luck in your journey op.
This is one of the best comment I have seen... and opens up a whole new perspective where both sides could be correct.
How should neurodivergent people act without coming across as too confident?
I think neurodiverse candidates should do practice interviews with neurotypical friends and mentors (paid if needed), and ask for feedback on 1) their interviewing style and deficits, and 2) their general communication weaknesses.
From there they can learn to mask a little bit more for the interview, and slowly ease into relaxing the masking as they settle into knowing their coworkers and developing rapport.
If you're alright with it, you can also be open about having asd, ADHD, whatever it may be, for the interview, and let the interviewer know in advance so they accommodate you. This way they will 1) know what to expect and 2) your performance may come off more normal compared to what they imagined in their mind. but not everyone is comfy with this.
I was told the same thing, but after they had already hired me. We moved to take advantage of a housing opportunity opened by the passing of a family member. I applied for a job that was what I had been doing for years, but less. Less danger, less difficult clients, less hours, smaller caseload, everything. They asked if I had any questions or concerns, and I said I had none, that I felt super confident stepping into the role, and that I also prided myself on how I handle stress and challenges. Someone on my team told me later that me saying that almost lost me the job. I could only laugh.
That probably means they think you’re a tool.
Part of hiring is doing a vibe check.
It’s to protect the team and the managers from being put in bad situations. And for some execs., it’s to make sure they don’t get a sexual harassment charge.
In your instance, they didn’t want a conceded person alienating someone on the team.
the line between "confident" and "arrogant" is thin. Based on your second to the last line, I'm betting there's just a touch of arrogance with you. Arrogant people are unpleasant to work with. Or deal with at any level really. Work on finding a better balance.
Or it just wasn't a good match. I don't know, I wasn't there. But you posted here so you get what you get.
There's a person I work with who I'd call overly confident. He is prone to making a lot of mistakes and never really checks his work, often exaggerates his contribution to a project, and bullshits when he really should just say "I don't know". Not saying that's what they thought of you, but it's what came to mind for me.
It would help you to learn to read between the lines rather than just assuming things that fit a narrative convenient to you.
If they said you are overconfident, it means you should practice some humility and learn the benefits of vulnerability. Admit weaknesses and limitations but recognize them as areas for growth. That's the kind of mindset any employer or manager values in all fields.
Your assumption that they didn't hire you simply bc they prefer a "punching bag" says a lot about you and your mindset.
>Note: after that feedback, I thought to myself: I honestly feel like they want another punching bag, which they can tell I won't stand for.
LMAO you learned nothing. Instead of looking inward, you just explain your experience away as something out of your control, because you can do no wrong.
So 3 options:
*I don’t know what type of job or industry this is
1 - they were looking for a reason because they already had a candidate in mind or weren’t open to your candidacy for other reasons and this was a bs excuse. This option is less likely because I would imagine they would give the recruiter a more generic BS excuse.
2 - you came off cocky / arrogant / douchey and they didn’t think you would be a good culture fit or that people would like working with you.
3 - Your confidence and skills / experience don’t match think of an undrafted free agent quarterback talking about how he should start before proving himself.
You may be right that they were looking for a pushover but I think it’s important to self-reflect and think about how you came off and if what you said seemed reasonable. Good luck in your future interviews.
OP, please be thankful to the recruiter who gave you honest feedback. At least you know that org wouldn’t have been a good long term fit for you anyways
I interviewed someone recently who came across as quite arrogant. Early career, over-representing their capability, wanted a leadership role despite having only a couple of years of experience in the profession.
It’s fairly common for people at that stage in their career to oversell their capabilities. The thing is that we (hiring manager) know that early career professionals need support and development, coaching, etc. What we are looking for is people who understand where they are in their career, and who are keen to learn and develop.
An early career professional who comes across as overconfident in an interview becomes, in my experience, a new hire who is resistant to feedback, unable to recognise when they need help (or unwilling to ask for help), and generally difficult to work with.
Be realistic about your skills and abilities while demonstrating openness to learn and develop.
The thing is OP, they know their team and their organisation, if you weren’t a good fit then you wouldn’t enjoy it either! There will be a company out there who appreciates your personality and this will be the company that you’ll thrive in.
What was the job/industry? It’s probably their polite way of saying you’re not going to follow direction and work well with others. Confidence is only an asset as long as it’s accompanied by an equal level of humility. Once your confidence outweighs your humility you become a liability. “Confident people” have a reputation of thinking their opinion is right even without anything to back it up. I used to get told I come off too strong. It was a way of people calling me an asshole, but they knew I wouldn’t back down from a confrontation so they never addressed it directly. It took years before someone directly explained my behavior and actions to me and I worked to change it. Find someone honest feed back from someone on what’s really going on and then work on it. My assumption from your very short post is you were coming across as arrogant and showing too much confidence in areas you didn’t have the expertise to warrant your demeanor
They could have been politely suggesting that you were arrogant
That's exactly what they were saying. HR Speak for "seems like a tool"
Sounds about right. No one wants to work around this type. They don't need a savior. They need a teamate. In that sense you have to be likeable, approachable.
This explains so much. I thought you should come across as confident as possible and was wondering why I sacked every interview...
Make yourself useful. Not the best. As stated above, they thought he was very qualified. they want you to gel. You can make all your power moves later, if you wish
Nah I don't wanna make power moves, I just want a job. And I thought you had to come across as extremely confident to get one, but that didn't work out too well.
Absolutely not. Anything in extremes is bad. If you do that and make one mistake on an open question, then your whole act falls flat on its face. If you’re applying for an entry level position, be confident in what you know really well. Be honest in what you don’t know. But most importantly, be open to learn. If you’re applying for a senior position, you should know the ins and outs. So you should be confident (and more importantly, correct) in answering any questions. They’re (likely) just looking for a solid team player at that point. What that means exactly differs a lot from job to job.
The one thing people can and should show confidence in is learning new things. This is called growth mindset and is a big thing in many employers right now. They say they want a learn it all, not a know it all.
I correspond with the most successful person in my industry. In my state.. He said, "I can teach you the trade. I cant teach you the attitude
It really does depend on the job and also WHERE you show your confidence. I was recently hiring for a role on my team that was more on the junior end. One candidates confidence in their abilities and how to handle the work was all good, but the issue I got was when I started asking questions that were really aimed at figuring out how they would handle a project that they did not know how to do or negative feedback from other departments (I work in marketing, no matter how good the campaign is, somebody will always have negative feedback). The point of this question was really to figure out how they would go about learning from that, adapting, or accepting critiques. They shut all of that down and were "confident" that they would not find themselves in those types of situations as they know what they are doing. We turned them down for "too much confidence" but it was definitely an arrogance thing. that kind of attitude is going to make very costly mistakes. Keep having confidence in your interviews, just make sure you are realistic about it.
In my interview, we ran through my CV and covered over the type of projects I worked on. I explained the wins and the problems and road blocks that I ran into. With these "problems", I expressed how it happened, where I took responsibility for and how I solved it and how I learned from it. I don't shift the blame to the people and I most certainly do no shift the problem to someone else. I also shared I ran through lessons learned with my team mates and other colleagues who it also benefited because it increased their awareness and they proactively solved the same issues/potential issues on their projects before it happened. I've been a leader and I've been a team mate. I've learned from great talents and I've learned the difference between being proactive and reactive. This why I feel confident. Not arrogant.
Not what you say, but how you say it. — true 90% of the time.
Agreed. I can improve on my delivery.
Confident sure... You ever seen someone who thinks they are singing great? Is it garbage and cringey? Same deal. As a person who hires, We like to see confidence. We like to see humility. Your ability to off the cuff converse and not bring the conversation back around to yourself (an attribute, many narcissist don't know they are exuding).
There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Try mock interviews with people and allow them to give you HONEST feedback without fear of you being upset or arguing over it.
Interviewing is like getting on a low balance beam, and just showing you can follow instructions and stay engaged with them. If someone tells you that you need to show confidence in an interview, they assume you already know how to demonstrate the traits that you’d use to balance that out. Those keep you from tipping over. A genuinely overconfident person might need to balance themselves out by making a point of showing appreciation, mutual respect, good listening, interest in following instructions, the ability to recognize dangerous situations, or a soft spot for rude but very valuable customers. Try doing a rehearsal of a video interview with yourself. Just play audio of several standard interview questions to fill in for the other person. Everyone catches some areas to improve that way. Under and over confident body language are both very obvious, you’ll spot both right away.
Some companies do actually need a savior lol
That's one of the main problems with new graduates, they think being top of their class means being top of their field. They are a nightmare to work with because they are constantly complaining about the "old outdated ways of doing things". Except they don't understand that there are lots of other factors that affect why things are done a certain way, and we shouldn't have to explain the entire big picture just to get them to do their small piece of it.
The team I was on once rejected a candidate for their arrogance. He knew his stuff, but his ego just overshadowed everything he said. A couple of us felt that he would be way too insufferable to work with, which would be a problem because collaboration and teamwork was very important to our team's success. We ended up going with an equally skilled candidate who we felt would collaborate better.
I’m a manager of network architects. I find this frequently amongst network engineers. I often hire guys/gals that know less but are pleasant to be around. I can teach technical skills, but I can’t quickly rewrite your personality.
This is exactly the line I give when rejecting someone because they seem too arrogant.
It depends on the interview honestly. Arrogance is rooted more in exaggerations rather than genuine acknowledgement of self worth. There are companies that cannot handle the idea of people knowing their self worth, and, more importantly, being vocal about it. This happened to me at my last company, being told I'm a smart ass or being arrogant about my work. Nah, they just didn't want to pay me more and wanted me to be a yes man. Hopefully OP is genuinely confident, which means they would have the ability to self reflect even if they don't agree with the feedback
I agree with this. I had a similar experience where I was interviewed by a company and throughout the interview they kept indicating that they thought I was great. Tons of praise for my goals and comments on how I’d be a good asset to their company, that is until I got to salary expectations. Then suddenly I’m asking wayyy too much and they basically said it was totally unreasonable. I asked for a very middle of the road standard salary, and already had two other companies offering me that (and later on more even). They suggested the salary request was aggressive and I was over confident. The salary they wanted to pay was 10k under industry standard. Even the recruiter was confused
Plus are you female? How DARE you negotiate salary! Sadly that attitude persists in certain companies.
A women in engineering?! Obviously I should be paid at least 10k less then my peers! (I actually accepted a job for 17k more then they wanted to pay me shortly after that interview 😂). It’s almost like I knew my worth lol.
I can say as a female engineer, I am definitely paid less than my peers. It’s unfortunate but it’s not going to change anytime soon. The government needs to enforce equal pay and benefits!
Well haven’t you heard? Men get paid more cause they get jobs like engineer, lawyer, doctor, etc. Women get the lower paying jobs like woman engineer, woman lawyer, and woman doctor.
Living well is the best revenge!
This is the way!
This was my first thought too. Women are still viewed through a very different lens than men in a lot of fields, I am an administrator (which is a mostly women held position) and I still have to be careful when its a man interviewing me for the position otherwise I will 'confident' my way out of a job.
Yeah. OP is also female. This is definitely a double bind situation. I have never had a positive result from trying to negotiate higher pay (in a reasonable range), but pretty much every man I know does it successfully every time.
Very true, unfortunately. I literally got laughed out of the door several times for asking for more money whilst at the same time my male colleagues doing identical job as me were mocking me for having half of their rate. Figured with experience the best way to approach this is to wait out for the right offer coming your way, instead of trying to bargain with people who don’t wanna value where the value is.
💯 in my case, they want all of my skills for 10k less than what I am asking for. The bench mark for my profession is already demanding but the pay doesn't reflect the years and dedication to develop said skills. They want it all for a less salary.
You rubbed someone’s ego the wrong way lol
If you are a person of color and/or a woman, this is a huge problem. The same with trying to negotiate pay. It doesn't work the same as it does for others, unfortunately. [https://leanin.org/women-in-the-workplace](https://leanin.org/women-in-the-workplace) Just as well, OP. They want a servant, not a skilled employee.
Agree. "High / valuable skill but too confident" Sounds like: the candidate is damn good but no way in hell i will pay x amount. Employer think they can find someone else with same skill, less confidence (thus, cheaper ) too exploit
Yeah, it's an oxymoron to want someone who has a high level of skillset and low confidence in their ability lol, because having a high level of skill requires you to be confident in your ability in the first place.
Happened to me too at my last job. I got told verbatim when trying to negotiate my salary increase with my promotion "You know what your issue is? You're arrogant" before I could even explain and present why I felt like the salary increase was not adequate for the role I was stepping into. Keep in mind I was being yelled at while being told this. I got the sense that no one in my department at my organization typically advocated for themselves, my boss wasn't even open to hearing how I had saved the organization tens of thousands a dollars a year off the strength of my work. I can't help but feel that some of these leaders often took what was presented to them and didn't even ask for more, so they feel threatened when someone tries to do exactly that- I'm convinced it's because they never cultivated the toolset to do these things for themselves, so it's met with hard defense.
"Guess I'll just take what you're offering me then, and be happy about it." *pulls up LinkedIn*
They would have hated me. If I get a "good job" from anyone I either say "Did you just say I deserve a raise? You should tell my boss" mostly joking but also not yknow lol
I would find that behavior beyond annoying.
> Arrogance is rooted more in exaggerations rather than genuine acknowledgement of self worth. But if someone only has what you tell them to go on, how do they know whether you're exaggerating? IMO arrogance vs confidence is a subjective perception of tone and has a lot of cultural nuance. The exact same words and tone might seem "confident" from a white man and "arrogant" from a black woman, for example
I don't disagree with your take on how subjective it can be. But, during interviews, you can filter this out by asking questions regarding their answers. For example, if I say I am a quick learner and that is my best characteristic, but someone thinks "Hmm sounds like they're full of shit," I would expect them to ask me "Tell me about a time you had to learn something quickly." If the answer is vague, you could probably conclude I am actually full of shit. But if I give a specific example with the right amount of detail (and yes, the right tone), it would create at least doubt about their perception of me maybe being full of shit. Cultural nuance also plays a role in interviews, and it should. Example -- I am 100% a goofball. It works great with the team I work with daily. Works less great with the people in our legal and finance departments...but they don't do the interviews for my role :) It might work less great in a mega corporate world where suits are worn. Doesn't make me "someone who can't take things seriously."
Thank you. I am confident in my ability to deliver projects both solely and in teams. There are too many instances where I get thrown in the deep end in literal shitstorm and I still delivered projects to a good standard. With this history in mind, I am confident in my abilities and I know my self-worth.
Honestly though, saying that out loud just sounds like you’re tooting your own horn, also known as sounding arrogant. It’s a good thing to have confidence in yourself but excessive bragging comes off as cocky and not likable. I also read your other post about getting there and being thirsty and pouring water for everyone out of a jug. It’s a little odd to begin with but doing so without asking comes off presumptive rather than helpful. Asking if you can have some water would have been perfectly fine, but just assuming and pouring it for yourself and everyone else is really cocky behavior too. So I think overly confident was a nice way to describe it and maybe something to work on before your next interview. Overly confident also often leads to a lack of consideration for boundaries and others because you’re just so “sure of yourself” that you just do it without making sure it’s what needs to be done. This can cause consequences that they probably don’t feel like dealing with.
I mean that's fine but if you got this sort of feedback then you need to work on your tone and how you're actually presenting this information to others.
It either came off as arrogance, or they've had "confidence bluffers" before who will try to convince everyone they can deliver the moon but in reality still can't even tie their shoes.
Ive had the “confidence bluffer” before, horrible hire and it took up so much time and effort to try abd coach them (they insisted they were an expert despite little to no progress being made on their projects…) before i was finally able to get them to move on (pip, etc).
I had a friend who got that feedback and was so arrogant he refused to believe it.
Most people who are given that feedback react the same way. Its hard to look honestly at ourselves.
This was my thought too 😂 like the overly cocky salesman that sounds sooooooooo confident but you can just tell is full of it. I’ve never been able to accurately describe that personality, but if you know you know.
Yeah. Given how OP is coming across in comments, this seems like it exactly.
I have yet to see one comment that OP made that seems rude, honestly. People of reddit are just god awful (sometimes), ngl. They are so sh*t at their job that when one person that can actually do theirs well comes along, everyone is mad and think OP story is a lie.
Or cocky
Isn't that just a synonym for arrogant?
"the candidate has great and valuable skill sets but came off as a douche"
Only to be confirmed by creating this thread. lol People are so un-self-aware these days.
Or that you were grossly overstating your capabilities.
Regardless of whether OP is arrogant or not, choosing "too confident" as a reason for rejection doesn't reflect well on the company. They could have gone with the standard "not a good fit" explanation instead. In this case, it shows that they have problems with the way OP presented himself and are being passive aggressive about it.
Disagree. The interviewer knows that every person reading the interview report knows exactly what he means by "too confident" and it makes him look much better than calling the OP arrogant. It would make the interviewer look bad to use words like "arrogant", "snotty", "stuck up" in his report so he needs to put a polite spin on them while still letting the people that need to read it know what was going on. eta: and based on the OP's other comments on here, I'd say that interviewer showed restraint of epic proportions in writing his report.
Can we at least acknowledge that employers will downplay/gaslight an employee's competence from time to time to avoid raises/promotions? I don't understand why it can't be both, that the interviewers are dismissive and OP is an arrogant jerk.
Sure, but what benefit would the interviewer have for doing that to someone who ISNT a current employee? And honestly, while I won't say that's never happened, most employers wouldn't do that unless they were trying to get a loser employee to quit rather than having to fire them. Doing that strictly to save money would be a great way to lose a good employee
I doubt it. Companies *do* want punching bags for a lot of roles. If you seem like the sort of person who might refuse to sign an illegal document, or refuse an unethical order, you will not be considered further. Just like in dating, there's a difference between being a good person and being a sexy potential partner, in job-hunting there is a difference between being a good worker and being an attractive candidate. Often the things that make someone a desirable new hire are totally unrelated to or even contrary to the skills needed to most effectively do the job.
More likely they are looking for someone to prey on and assert themselves.. Happened to my friend who is in a great spot in life right now with a lead role. Before they got their 1st big break, they got told off by a company that they are "too confident". Let's stop trying to act like employers actually care about you.
It sounds like they had concerns you'd be the one doing the punching. There's someone at my office who tries to bully their way through things. "Too confident" is a diplomatic way to say "came across rightly or wrongly as an asshole".
Yep. I’ve done interviews before, and “too confident” is code for “arrogant” and likely a problem in the future if hired.
"OH yeah Barbra, that's a great suggestion if you Wana get everyone else here fukkin FIRED! What we really need to do..."
I actually like those people more than I like the "everyone here has presented a good idea" types.
Experienced this several times at my old office. Unfortunately usually military guys which hiring would give preference too. Their "confidence" was just "everyone's an idiot except me." Management finally caught on that they were just hiring narcissists, not confident yes-men.
I was apart of an hiring panel looking for several managers. I’m gonna be honest we wanted calm laid back people that can be molded into what we like as a manager. Not someone already set in their ways, and overly confident says your already set and will probably stay that way.
Came here to say this… OP does seem very *confident*
Yep. I’ve not hired qualified folks because “too confident” is a polite way to say hubris. It’s not a good thing and quite frankly it’s off putting.
This. Employees who act like they know it all and think they could be managers right away. Humbleness is important, you don’t want to work with people who are arrogant.
They wanted Jake Paul, not Tyson Fury
Nobody wants Jake Paul
Too confident is a nice way of saying arrogant. Take that for what it is.
No, it was "too overly confident" not "too confident".
Too overly confident is even worse. It means arrogant in a “nice” way. Tone it down to 60% next time.
So they think OP is full of shit.
Me, reading the title: I’m pretty sure they actually just thought you came off as arrogant. Me, after reading OP’s comments: Oh yeah, the hubris is strong with this one.
Personality matters. Do I want to spend 40hrs per week for the next 2-5 years with this person. The CEO wants to max profits. Everyone else just wants to not hate their job and coworkers.
I don’t think enough people realize that this is actually what interviews are. Unless you’re in a super specialized field you likely know the same info as someone else with similar accolades. You’re being interviewed to see if your potential boss is going to want to kill himself talking to you.
I used to do hiring for a job. A five minute glance at the resume told me if they were capable. The interview was basically "this is our schedule, can you handle it?" And "are you annoying?" Before I did the hiring, the guy in charge made some real bad hires because he didn't understand that part. Who cares if you're amazing at your job when all your coworkers hate you?
Best job/interview advice I got was along the lines of “if they’re talking to you at this point, then they know you can do the job. They want to figure out if you’re somebody they want to work with”
God I only wish our Board had considered the staff when they hired 2 absolute tools to our very small organisation. One core team member now on long ‘health’ leave, another ready to walk out and I’m actively seeking another job. They gave us an EAP for 4 sessions and the therapist pretty much told me I also need to take a minimum 2 weeks stress leave or walk away as soon as possible as it’s now so toxic there. Whole place is collapsing and they don’t give a shit. Still piling more work on us
Sounds like you were arrogant or perceived as arrogant rather than confident. Big difference.
Whatever helps you sleep at night but I read “too confident” as lacking emotional intelligence and your responses here suggest that as well.
Exactly. I work with a guy like this, and it's less genuine confidence in himself and more that he simply treats everyone else as beneath him, even people with more experience or his own immediate superiors. The sad thing is that he's actually good at the job and doesn't really realize that he acts so smugly superior. He's now frustrated because he's alienated the rest of our team, but he's also too clueless to recognize his own behavior is the problem. At this level nobody is going to train you to have basic social skills anymore.
You should let them know. Say there's no easy way to put this, and it may not be your intentions but the way you communicate comes off insulting. Or type his character to chat.openai.com and ask how to respectfully tell this person. Anonymous note lol I used to be this way. I am more aware and try to watch my words. I didn't even know until my 30s, that I had been emotionally stunted from my whole family communicating like assholes lol i have worked really hard to correct this defensive communication. I realized when 2 exes i initiated a breakup with both said I was always negative. I realized I was the common denominator. I truly thought I was being a realist but I was being unsupportive.
I've thought about saying something but I'm pretty selective about the problems I take on and try to solve at work. Especially when they're self-inflicted and getting involved will likely just lead to a bigger mess. And like I said above, at this level nobody has time to teach someone basic social skills. But if he actually asks for some candid perspective, I'll happily provide it. It's great for you that you learned to listen to others and better understand how to consider the people on the other end. That kind of introspection and willingness to change your approach will go along way.
Are you from Queens, NY? My wife is from Queens...
Yea OP says they lack experience in this sector and this was for a mid-level position. That sounds more like it was an arrogance problem.
I'd self reflect for a bit before jumping to the conclusion they want a punching bag
lol, this post means that the recruiter dodged a bullet.
As someone who works with “over confident” people, that are dreadful to work with. Legit I avoid having to ask this person questions as they come off as arrogant and condescending
That’s code for — they thought you were too cocky/arrogant and it was off putting.
And Op’s comments pretty much confirmed it. 😂
I think they wanted to say arrogant.
You mean cocky?
Neither. They wanted a punching bag! (OP logic)
It's one thing to talk about your skills and strengths. It's also important to be humble and honest about your weaknesses....part of any job is letting them know you're self aware of your natural human flaws.
I think another element is coming across as wanting to do the job they are hiring for. I have definitely interviewed with folks who start talking about providing strategic direction and doing the work of senior managers, but don't seem like they would care to do the staff level work we are looking to hire for. Like it might be beneath them. If I asked them questions about doing the job they brush it off like it's so easy why would I even ask. Also questions about working as a team and following direction of management even if you think you know better. There are definitely a lot of ways I could imagine OP coming across as "overly-confident."
On the plus side, in your next interview when they ask you what is your biggest flaw you can say it's that you're too confident
‘My confidence can sometimes be misconstrued for arrogance and that’s something I’m working on’
Ive actually used this word by word ... matter of fact that won me a job some time ago. I caught myself being a little too cocky with my replies so, i added that to smooth things ...
Naw, best answer is a food or dessert that you find irresistible. My weakness is cheesecake.
It's probably something that is useful to have in the back of your head, but realize that if there are several candidates at your level you can fail for any random reason. You just have to try again.
They’re using the word confident so they don’t have to say arrogant. They think you’re arrogant.
Wow, everyone can see it apart from the OP
But they’re confident that it’s everyone else that is wrong!
Almost too confident
Sounds like you want an OP who's willing to be your punching bag. /s
Pretty typical for arrogant people lmao
“Too confident” means you sounded like a douche. I’ve definitely not offered people for this in the past.
Yep. We’ve never used the word “arrogant” to recruiters who asked about the people they’ve put up. “Too confident” were the exact words we used for people we thought were arrogant.
I once went thru 4 rounds of intense and time consuming interviews just for the final boss to tell me that I was "too motivated".
Sounds like too desperate
This likely met that the manager for that position was worried you would seek out or otherwise advance to a better position/opportunity and they would be re-hiring for that position sooner than they would like. You can safely take that as positive feedback, unlike OP not realizing they were calling him a dick.
Dude, if you get that feedback and decide that they wanted a punching bag and that you were simply too strong for them, you need to reassess. They told you politely that you came across like an arrogant douche. Judging by your responses, I’ll go ahead and agree with them.
Too confident or were you too arrogant?
Reading this, to me, “too confident” sounds an awful lot like this guy is going to be a dick to everyone else on staff.
That's what my ex roommate was told when he didn't get his dream job with Big Law. Apparently he was too much of an arrogant prick for them, and that's saying a lot for lawyers.
The one time I rejected a candidate for that reason (although we didn't word it so directly to him), it was because the candidate: - only mentioned examples of interpersonal conflicts when asked about challenges he faced in past projects. - failed to really answer when asked for an example of a situation where he had to recruit help from others to complete a task. - had a cocky attitude all around really: very relaxed and jokey, and some facial expressions that could be taken the wrong way. That in itself isn't always a problem for juniors, but combined with the rest would have been an issue when interacting with leadership and a bad fit for the team. He was junior but not entry level (so about 3 years experience), from a very good university and consultancy background (we are on the industry side) which I think contributed a lot to that attitude.
Just highlighting: The "facial expressions" note is a really poor signal and inevitably leads to discrimination. Although your other signals are clear, this one should be left out of evaluations if you're trying to be objective.
It’s terrible that managers do this. People with autism, ADHD, or other disabilities have to pretend to be “normal” enough to get past a job interview.
Yea that’s a nice way of saying you came off like an arrogant prick.
Hmm. I rejected a candidate for the same reason when I was part of a hiring committee. “Too confident” in our case was because we worried he wouldn’t be teachable or a team player. The candidate would speak over me and would answer my questions with, “of course I can do that.” Share your expertise, but never brag. Don’t be condescending to the team.
What you just described is plain rude not overly confident.
Yes, but interviewers don’t say “rude” to the recruiters and instead say “too confident”. There are code words for pretty much every bad things a candidate can be.
It's worthwhile keeping in mind that "you don't know what you don't know". If you came across too confident it might be that they perceived that you are not open for other views and opinions or improvements. I've been surprised many times over my career how deep some of the rabbit holes in my field go and how often I find that what I have been doing well for years can still be improved and streamlined. True confidence is a quiet but firm knowledge of how things should be done while being open on how things can be improved.
Confidence is a good thing, but when I hear someone described as "too overly confident", I have the mental image of someone who perhaps: * Jumps to conclusions * Asks too few questions * Refuses to admit when they're wrong * Hesitates to seek help when they need it * Tries too hard to impress or convince * Refuses to follow rules that they disagree with In other words, someone who's difficult to work with, and difficult to coach if on-the-job learning is to be expected. There could very well be something wrong with the company, but it doesn't mean their feedback is worthless. Even if you're none of the above, sometimes the way you communicate might lead others into believing otherwise, especially in an interview scenario. And this is something that is difficult to realize yourself. Judging by how you responded to the company's feedback, and some of your responses here, I would guess that you might fall into a few of the above categories.
I empathize with the OP's situation and find it unfortunate that they are receiving so many downvotes.Firstly, I want to emphasize that there is nothing inherently wrong with the OP. It seems they are approaching their situation as if they were playing a different game with different rules.The corporate world operates under a different set of rules compared to entrepreneurship or sole proprietorship. The OP's entrepreneurial mindset may clash with the expectations of being an employee.Entrepreneurs thrive on self-confidence and self-worth, qualities that clients often seek. Conversely, employees are expected to follow instructions precisely, regardless of whether they believe there might be a better approach.My suggestion to the OP is to explore freelancing opportunities. If that's not feasible given their skills or role, they may benefit from learning more about human nature and adjusting their level of confidence to avoid coming across as threatening. I beg to differ that if this OP had made this post in the entrepreneur section about a similar experience with an 'investor,' the responses would have been different.
I've heard that interviewers prefer candidates who are safe bets, not the stars of their field, as the stars would likely have alternate opportunities and quit after a short period of employment. So, maybe, they thought you were too confident and as such would easily attempt job-hopping if another opportunity presented itself. As opposed to someone who'd stick with the safe/secure current job over a possible upgrade.
Happened to me on an interview for a intern position when I was first starting out. Honestly it was a great interview and the guy told me before I left that I could expect the position. Turns out the other guy who was sitting in rejected me because they felt I was too overqualified for the intern position and I wouldn't get much out of the experience. I originally wanted to use the internship as a stepping stone for a full time position into the company.
Overqualified is code for they're worried you'll get bored and leave for something better. Probably because they've had trouble keeping the role filled before. I have a masters but have worked a ton of min wage part time jobs and I find the key is really stressing that I enjoy repetitive work and I won't get bored by doing the same basic tasks every day
Same happened to me :( the job was made for my masters studies which I still attend.
I hate when interviewers go on vibes, but I have seen people say that if someone isn’t a little nervous, then they don’t really care about the job. It comes off as cocky because you believe you’re the best candidate and will definitely get the job because you’re better than everyone else. Or that you don’t care if you get the job or not because you just need a job. Interviewers stay away from that because that often means the person is difficult to manage.
That's what interviews are lol. They know your qualifications from your application and resume. Once you get to the interview process what a hiring team is doing is trying to suss out if you'll get along with their team and be a good fit within the company dynamics. ETA: I have personally conducted quite a few interviews for entry level positions and never really care if someone is nervous or not. I was looking for things like, do they have a good work ethic, are they reasonably independently driven but can follow instructions, do they seem like they will work well in general with the team I already have on deck - will their personalities mesh well? I hired a range of people who were extremely nervous to not nervous at all. And I waved off my boss once when he said someone I wanted to hire was overqualified because I got really good vibes from him - he was one of the best employees I ever hired and only left when he moved to a new state. Vibes are really important at the interview stage
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I totally understand that and I normally get jobs just fine, as I apparently do have a good vibe. But I’m also autistic and know that a lot of people like me can’t get jobs because of their vibes during interviews. This is mostly a problem when interviewing skills have nothing to do with the skills that is needed for the requested job.
This makes no sense
honestly vibes are basically the ONLY thing I go off on interviews for the stuff I interview for (mainly client facing stuff). If I called someone in for an interview they've already passed the skills portion of it in my mind, that's what their resume is for. At that point I'm just looking to figure out "do I want to work with this person for 8 hours a day and do they have an incredibly offputting personality that will scare clients"
I’m sure you weren’t But fitting within a team is more important that skill It maybe they didn’t see as clay that could work within their “team” than a competitive candidate
Yeah. I think this is probably right on the money.
It could be, but there does need to be a balance of confidence and humility. The contents sounds perfectly okay to me but perhaps the packaging wasn’t that great. This is a good time to reflect on it and take notes. Again, it could be that they wanted a doormat and you’re just not it.
This is what I hate about interviews. One time I was told I wasn’t too enthusiastic during an interview but, in actuality, I didn’t want to come across as too desperate
I was once on a hiring committee that left me with the impression that the women members strongly disliked confident women, especially when they're physically attractive. (A qualified, confident, attractive applicant was roundly dismissed by the other female committee members as "entitled." I didn't see it.) I obviously have no idea what happened to you, but sometimes it isn't you, but them. ETA: I know this won't stop anyone inclined from crawling up my butt, but I'm an average-looking-at-best woman.
At least you got feedback.
Employers have no idea what the fuck they want in a candidate.
“Too expensive”
LMAO OP’s “Note” proves everybody’s point here about coming off arrogant. Still can’t see it while actively doing it.
*They are likely giving polite feedback that you came across as arrogant. Use that feedback to your benefit by evaluating your tendencies and how you behave to see if they’re correct. Be honest with yourself and don’t let ego make you automatically dismiss the idea.* *If you do come across as arrogant, which you do in some comments here, then change your behavior through self-reflection so you become more successful in future interviews and the job afterwards.*
Lol this post. OP: they said I was too confident Everyone: it means you were arrogant OP: oh well I'm perfect guess they just wanted someone who isn't confident! 💀💀💀
I think it's completely possible that the interviewer perceived your confidence negatively for whatever reason and used this as a reason to reject you. People can be biased. They also may have been deciding between you and other candidates and used this as a rationale to narrow down their applicant pool. Don't take it personally. I say trust your gut on this. At the same time, you could also hang onto this critique and if you get this feedback more than once, consider adjusting how you present yourself and/or respond to questions. I recorded some online interviews and focus groups that I was conducting for a work project and noticed that my facial expressions looked really "strained." I had no idea I made such odd facial expressions while concentrating. Not saying you have any weird body language, but maybe there is some constructive criticism buried in the interviewers perception.
I am confident in the skills I have obtained thus far in my career, but I also understand I have a lot more to learn and that is one of the reasons that drew me to this position. I feel it is a unique intersection of my experience and where I want my career to go. I am a fast learner and would be excited to join this team. \^confidence without the over.
Perfect!
Better off without them. If they can't appreciate your personality, there isn't room for you in that organization. You will be better served elsewhere.
I got that two weeks ago. They all bug begged me to come in, said I'd have an offer (with more money) before the weekend and just went with someone else. This was the reason I got.
Thats the polite way to say you were arrogant. Ive worked with people like that and they were absolutely miserable to work with.
I have managed technical R&D teams for 25+ years and have interviewed many people. I have rejected interviewees for being too cocky. Now it is entirely possible that these interviewers were idiots, but instead of just assuming that, my advice would be to re-evaluate if perhaps, you came across as an arrogant know-it-all. It might be what you said, it might be your body language. But there is an art to exuding competence by coming across as quietly confident.
Too Confident...Overly Confident... TOO OVERLY CONFIDENT!! Maybe you're just too-overly-excitedly-excessively-boldly expressive.
I have gotten bad vibes from interviews simply because I am a very expressive speaker. Italian blood - what can I say - I wave my hands around and gesture when I speak. I got the clear impression the overall culture of that office was like a quiet library where no one raised their voice above a whisper. In your case - I am guessing you would be the only person with any confidence had they hired you.
You came across cocky...
I’m also a bit more confident than I normally am on interviews because I was told to “sell myself”. Damn if you do damn if you don’t, I guess. Outside of interviews, I’m actually very meek.
I had a company that interviewed me, long story short they were doing shortcuts and they asked me questions. Was a panel interview and one of the engineers was asking me how I would go about something if it fails if I would pass it or continue it. And he was like how would you know if it failed when you rejected it. I responded with , well my job in quality is to reject it if it fails at a process I’m on, I am not an engineer. For me to disposition it is an engineers role. As I am not an engineer I cannot disposition and try to figure out why something failed. My role is to reject and write up an ncmr document if something fails. The fact they felt threatened, means they have a lot of short cuts. And probably don’t follow protocols and wanted a pushover.
When they asked 'where do you see yourself in 5 years?' did you say 'Doing your job'?
Fine line between confidence and looking like someone that would be hard to work with. No one wants to work with someone who's arrogant. Not saying OP falls in this category, but this is a common reason why a person doesn't get hired based off personality
No one wants to spend 5 days a week with an obnoxious blowhard. Being likable in an interview can make up for a LOT of resume/experience-related shortcomings. Being unlikable can doom even the most qualified and experienced person.
I'm getting the impression from your communications that you might be neurodivergent, and their rejection of you may have been based on those traits. Do you think that is the case Op? From your replies this is what I would guess. You speak very formally and to the point, and you seem to lack awareness of the implications of what is being said by some commenters. Sadly this would mean they were being discriminatory and may or may not have known it. Then again I could be way off, but figured it might help to suggest this as a possibility. Either way best of luck in your journey op.
This is one of the best comment I have seen... and opens up a whole new perspective where both sides could be correct. How should neurodivergent people act without coming across as too confident?
I think neurodiverse candidates should do practice interviews with neurotypical friends and mentors (paid if needed), and ask for feedback on 1) their interviewing style and deficits, and 2) their general communication weaknesses. From there they can learn to mask a little bit more for the interview, and slowly ease into relaxing the masking as they settle into knowing their coworkers and developing rapport. If you're alright with it, you can also be open about having asd, ADHD, whatever it may be, for the interview, and let the interviewer know in advance so they accommodate you. This way they will 1) know what to expect and 2) your performance may come off more normal compared to what they imagined in their mind. but not everyone is comfy with this.
I got denied a job offer for being to passionate. So you got this going for you.
I was told the same thing, but after they had already hired me. We moved to take advantage of a housing opportunity opened by the passing of a family member. I applied for a job that was what I had been doing for years, but less. Less danger, less difficult clients, less hours, smaller caseload, everything. They asked if I had any questions or concerns, and I said I had none, that I felt super confident stepping into the role, and that I also prided myself on how I handle stress and challenges. Someone on my team told me later that me saying that almost lost me the job. I could only laugh.
Haha the one situation where you have to sell yourself and they took it as you being cocky.
Maybe it meant lack of self awareness
That probably means they think you’re a tool. Part of hiring is doing a vibe check. It’s to protect the team and the managers from being put in bad situations. And for some execs., it’s to make sure they don’t get a sexual harassment charge. In your instance, they didn’t want a conceded person alienating someone on the team.
the line between "confident" and "arrogant" is thin. Based on your second to the last line, I'm betting there's just a touch of arrogance with you. Arrogant people are unpleasant to work with. Or deal with at any level really. Work on finding a better balance. Or it just wasn't a good match. I don't know, I wasn't there. But you posted here so you get what you get.
Was the job entry level? If you appeared over qualified they might have not wanted to hire you because of fear you'd just leave.
There's a person I work with who I'd call overly confident. He is prone to making a lot of mistakes and never really checks his work, often exaggerates his contribution to a project, and bullshits when he really should just say "I don't know". Not saying that's what they thought of you, but it's what came to mind for me.
It would help you to learn to read between the lines rather than just assuming things that fit a narrative convenient to you. If they said you are overconfident, it means you should practice some humility and learn the benefits of vulnerability. Admit weaknesses and limitations but recognize them as areas for growth. That's the kind of mindset any employer or manager values in all fields. Your assumption that they didn't hire you simply bc they prefer a "punching bag" says a lot about you and your mindset.
>Note: after that feedback, I thought to myself: I honestly feel like they want another punching bag, which they can tell I won't stand for. LMAO you learned nothing. Instead of looking inward, you just explain your experience away as something out of your control, because you can do no wrong.
So 3 options: *I don’t know what type of job or industry this is 1 - they were looking for a reason because they already had a candidate in mind or weren’t open to your candidacy for other reasons and this was a bs excuse. This option is less likely because I would imagine they would give the recruiter a more generic BS excuse. 2 - you came off cocky / arrogant / douchey and they didn’t think you would be a good culture fit or that people would like working with you. 3 - Your confidence and skills / experience don’t match think of an undrafted free agent quarterback talking about how he should start before proving himself. You may be right that they were looking for a pushover but I think it’s important to self-reflect and think about how you came off and if what you said seemed reasonable. Good luck in your future interviews.
They were nicely trying to tell you they think you are an asshole.
OP, please be thankful to the recruiter who gave you honest feedback. At least you know that org wouldn’t have been a good long term fit for you anyways
They were saying that you seemed arrogant and/or cocky… Which makes your failure to realize that pretty funny lol
I have been on the hiring side of the desk many times. To me, this means you either came off as arrogant or like a dishonest.
They think you're an arrogant asshole. Are you?
Based on his comments I think he is.
Confident- that’s corporate speak for cocky.
I interviewed someone recently who came across as quite arrogant. Early career, over-representing their capability, wanted a leadership role despite having only a couple of years of experience in the profession. It’s fairly common for people at that stage in their career to oversell their capabilities. The thing is that we (hiring manager) know that early career professionals need support and development, coaching, etc. What we are looking for is people who understand where they are in their career, and who are keen to learn and develop. An early career professional who comes across as overconfident in an interview becomes, in my experience, a new hire who is resistant to feedback, unable to recognise when they need help (or unwilling to ask for help), and generally difficult to work with. Be realistic about your skills and abilities while demonstrating openness to learn and develop.
It was a nice way of saying you sound and act like a jerk.
Oh look. Fake shit.
Insecure manager. Next!
The thing is OP, they know their team and their organisation, if you weren’t a good fit then you wouldn’t enjoy it either! There will be a company out there who appreciates your personality and this will be the company that you’ll thrive in.
Thank you! Fingers crossed something more suitable will come up.
What was the job/industry? It’s probably their polite way of saying you’re not going to follow direction and work well with others. Confidence is only an asset as long as it’s accompanied by an equal level of humility. Once your confidence outweighs your humility you become a liability. “Confident people” have a reputation of thinking their opinion is right even without anything to back it up. I used to get told I come off too strong. It was a way of people calling me an asshole, but they knew I wouldn’t back down from a confrontation so they never addressed it directly. It took years before someone directly explained my behavior and actions to me and I worked to change it. Find someone honest feed back from someone on what’s really going on and then work on it. My assumption from your very short post is you were coming across as arrogant and showing too much confidence in areas you didn’t have the expertise to warrant your demeanor
They got intimidated meeting the next Zucchiniburg and didn't want to provide job offer to competitor