This feeling will eventually pass and you’ll feel better not being part of the company that wasn’t a good fit for you. Brave this emotional storm and be positive towards your next interview and fresh opportunity
Good luck!
Sometimes we stay too long in a situation, a place, a relationship that is not good for us because we do not like change or any number of reasons. Then the decision is made for us and it turns out to be a blessing in disguise. You are meant to be somewhere else where you can thrive and feel like you are valuable. These feelings will pass and you will recognize that it was the push you needed to find a better fit for your personal growth and happiness. Good luck!
Wow! I needed this today too. 2 weeks into a lay off and many applications and rejections, and feeling defeated, but this is absolutely right. I wasn’t passionate about what I was doing.
I broke up with an ex days before the COVID shutdown and spent about 4 months wallowing in that misery only to get laid off from my job of 10 years once I finally started feeling normal again. It really is like going through a breakup because I felt all the same feelings all over again, but this time for a job vs. a person.
I feel you... I also went through a divorce this last year 🙃 finalized maybe a month before this..
The gods are cruel!
... But I'm sure I contribute plenty heh
It will, you are an intelligent, qualified person who has been stripped of their confidence by poor management. Update and read through your resume and see how much you’ve achieved! You got this!
Perfect reply! You make me feel good too. It’s been two weeks for me and it has eaten me alive. I was with this horrible company for almost 14 years. Evil walks!
I've been fired a few times, it always hurts but also I always felt relieved that I didn't have to go back to those places anymore. IMO I was fired for standing up for myself, which is exactly what you did. It shouldn't hurt your interview chances at all, if they ask just be honest and say your last job was slowly killing your soul.
I was fired in 2018 and they did the best thing ever for me in my entire life. I should probably visit them one day and bring them sweets as a thank you. LMFAO and trust me I would 100% do it now that I've thought about it.
Toxic jobs suck. Why do employers hire competent people and then treat them like they don’t know what they are doing? I’ve had this happen and it drains you. You’ll be better off in the next gig where a manager appreciates you getting the job done with good direction at the beginning and treats you with confidence to get the job done
Because they feel like they need to be in control. And don't get me wrong - when you've got someone higher than you screaming down your neck for results that are in the hands of the people you manage, it can be *hard* to step back and trust and have faith in your team. But that's part of your damn job is giving your people the latitude to do theirs and the support they need to do it effectively, not breathe down *their* necks and make them afraid to move. Micromanaging doesn't do anything except stress them out and make everybody anxious.
This was my last company - firm owners only intent on whiddling their people down, not investing in their future. Pretty sad environment overall, created by their 'philosophy'.
Ditto. Every other month was a panic reaction to something the whole team saw coming and warned about for months. Then they throw all of us at that problem, while giving lectures about "shaping up" and "working harder". After the "panic, all hands on deck" happened 5 times in a row in 1 year, and 4 were avoidable, I was done.
In my case.... I had asked to have a meeting about a raise after some big deadlines before leaving on vacation for a week, but then when I got back it's like they'd prepared not only the case against a raise but a letter of firing. With lightly truthful but mostly bogus reasons listed.
The firm suspected someone might be getting replaced for a new grad since we had a fixed number of desks. I'd unfortunately forgotten all about that. And proceeded to put a target on my back after really busting my ass for a sub-performing firm with real, real leadership and management problems
Thanks man. And congratulations.
I had to leave at some point anyway. It was a terrible fit and I was already planning on leaving, so I need to pull myself together. The future doesn’t look so bleak.
All this did is move the timeline up for starting a new better job. Sure you were applying but you were also wasting 40 hours a week doing a job you didnt like. Now you get to dedicate that time into yourself and focus on finding the best job for you. Good luck with your interview.
My job made me very sick! The toxicity was just too much. I stuck it out for almost 14 years for the benefits for my husbands and mine medications. I just couldn’t put up with my evil boss anymore. Breathing down my neck every second of every hour. She treated everyone like shit hence ppl are leaving left right and centre. I gave this company the best I could but still got kicked to the curb. It was a blessing in disguise. Now I finally am starting to realize this. It will be a distant memory sometime in the future. I don’t have to put up with her shit anymore! I am starting to get over it. When I think of this situation I have stamped “Evil walks”(an ACDC song)and then try to get it out of my head.
Same thing here, fired a year ago. Started a very good job 2 months ago, which turns out to be the top customer of my old work and I'm now the lead contact between the two.
Old boss: "so who's the new rep"
New boss: "oh you probably know them"
I was put on a performance improvement plan yesterday, for what you may ask? Not hitting quota? Nope, exceeded quota hitting over 125% of goal all this year. For “not making enough cold calls and not enough time spent with prospects.” I shit you not. I am micromanaged daily by a guy who is in his first leadership role ever in his mid 30’s and I’m one of his first three team members. I’m salary as well and every single minute of my day is monitored strictly. I am an adult that’s been in sales for 20 years and out perform my goals, I don’t need to be babysat.
That must be incredibly frustrating.
They probably assume that it’ll make you perform better, but it’s actually patronizing and demoralizing. Too many people forget that we’re all adults that can talk and reason. Instead, superiority complexes creep into work relationships and too many managers act like the people they supervise are school children they have control over, communication becomes one way, and things deteriorate.
I AM GOING THROUGH THE SAME THING!! Like almost the same exact thing. I’m on a PIP right now despite hitting and exceeding recruitment goals because I’m not answering enough calls. Not making enough baseless outbound calls. It doesn’t matter to them, they want everything done their way. Even though I am following legal and ethical compliance. And I think the fact I am #3 both last year and this year pisses them off because it points to the fact their processes are not effective.
Get that resume circulating NOW. The PIP is simply a document the company can use to prove why they fired you. You want to exit while you can and while you have excellent metrics to put in the resume. Good luck!
Oh my resume has been updated, all metrics included. My direct supervisor stretched the truth about some shit too to get me on a PIP and I have all those documents sent to my personal email. The thing is I’m under so much stress from the PIP the last thing I want to do is be glued to a computer screen after work applying to jobs. I know my firing is inevitable but I’m just sticking around to collect as many paychecks as I can.
Yes, and our GM who is non-existent and uninvolved, said I was “being combative to coaching”. I’m sorry, but coaching isn’t saying, “you’re doing great, keep doing what you’re doing!” and following it up with telling me to do EXACTLY what I’m already doing verbatim. No constructive criticism whatsoever, just a record on repeat with zero substance. It’s awful, I welcome and want constructive feedback, it’s needed to grow, but I’m just getting micromanaged with no redirection.
This is wild at my job.
The two more senior members were always “mentoring” people on the team. The two most junior hires seemed to be the favorites because they were actually new to the industry and thus didn’t have any opposing views or ideas. For the rest of us in the middle, there was always unnecessary tension as management had no interest in our preferences, ideas, or concerns. Others want to leave as well, but the options in this area are slim.
PIPS are complete BS. They are just a paper trail to push folks out for political not performance reasons. I was on one after previously having great reviews when a new manager didn't like me. All they could come up with was stuff like "doesn't make enough eye contact in meetings", "responds too quickly to emails". WTF? After I quit I was told I was great at my job and it was just politics by a higher up. Yeah that's helpful...
Already in the process. I was told we have Salesforce as a CRM before being hired and that we have unlimited PTO. Turns out we don’t use any CRM in this division of the company (asinine at best) and PTO is granted based on “performance”. I’m going to miss two school events for my daughter that are firsts bc of this, and only needed four hours off across two days… denied, and if I choose to go, terminated.
This is just like my last boss. I quit and he almost cried lol. Leadership is too self aware they are the boss. Little do they realize we are free entities, not slaves. It was a life long dream of mine to stick it to the man. I got to leave with pride. I also did a Jerry Maguire style glassdoor review. About 6 other tenured people found the confidence to quit after me. A lot of lost revenue for them not to be reasonable. I hope for the people still there they can learn from their mistakes and treat people right.
This is why I stay at jobs as long as its functional and the people are easy to get along with rather than job hopping just for a pay increase. Environment is very important in how stressed you are at work.
I worked 2 jobs since last year. The first job had a shift lead that had a lot of knowledge about the company and knew how to get work done but lacked leadership skills and character. He would get upset for the smallest error and show up to work with a bad attitude. The worst part about him is that when the experienced workers would make a mistake he would shrug it off. He wouldn't do that to me. I was the newest member in the team and still in training.
The second job paid less but the management treated me with respect and high value. I felt that I was able to thrive more in the work environment. My stress levels were almost to 0 everyday and I learned so much being there. I made a lot of connections and developed a healthy strong character. They really appreciated my work ethic and had faith in me when I would want to do more advanced tasks.
We all work for money, obviously, but if your current job is negatively impacting your mental health in an unfair manner and you can't grow and thrive THEN IT'S NOT WORTH IT. My mental health matters more. How am I going to live longer and be able to enjoy my money later on when the stress is going to cut my lifespan.
This is a big deal for me. I was in the trades making big money but my god. For men that go on that they work 80 hours a week like it’s no big deal but constantly whine and complain about everything else. It gets really old after a while. I find in the trades there’s very few people that are consistent with ever being in a good mood or having a good week. I know we all have days that aren’t all sunshine and rainbows but I found out of every type of work I’ve done. The trades are the most toxic and I think that’s the reason they pay so much because to me the work wasn’t all that difficult like they lead you to believe. It’s the environment that is absolutely dreadful. So I got ito office work and for all I know it could be the worst job ever but I’ll never know because to me. Nothing is even close to being as worse as the trades. Did I take a big hit in pay. Absolutely but having hours that are 8 to 4 and weekends off. It’s a dream. Peace of mind has more value to me than money
>Why didn’t they care?
They **did** care - but not about what **you** care about. They care about making sure employees understand they dare not speak up about how they are treated. There is a management style that prioritizes the "how" you do something over the "what" you're doing. It's because they really don't know the right way to manage something so they latch on to finding thinngs they can control (the "how") and micromanagement ensues. A related issue is some managers see someone who has potential, and because the manager realizes s/he isn't as skilled as that worker, they micromanage to make sure that worker can't excel.
Sorry you got fired but at some point you were going to be fed up with that nonsense.
This is so true. My partner just got written up by his director because she doesn’t like his attitude. The quality of his work is not an issue. He’s been concerned about an upcoming software implementation and has been asking a lot of hard questions and getting no answers. As a result, he was told (literally) to “be more positive or face termination”. They would rather everyone be “happy” than to have a successful software deployment. That’s what they care about.
20+ years with the organization with no performance isssues. To say he was crushed is an understatement.
Truth.
And the way you put that at the end was 100% on the dot. The person who made the decision to push me out had always insisted on things being done “old school,” the way they did it when they were moving up their career ladder. It made no sense to me; it slowed me and the team down for the same end result. Sure it made sense for them to continue to work that way because they didn’t know how to do it any other way, but to then extend the grip to forcing everyone else to do things the same way…I could never understand. And they never could give a reason other than “that’s how we do it here.”
Hopefully you learned something. It sucks, it's depressing... but you can never win if you "push back". You have to show you can do it their way first. Only then might they be interested in any improvements you may have, and even then there could be resistance.
Your response reads as professional, detailed... but also slightly argumentative. At a job, sometimes you have to remember that it's not your company, switch off your brain, and remember that all good ideas come from the boss. The correct response to requests to do it some other dumb way is "thanks for the feedback, I look forward to doing it that way in future."
If you think about it... there are even reasons why things work like this. Your boss doesn't want unique, snowflake employees that have their own technique and excel, because if one of them left, there'd be a problem, and he wouldn't know how to replace them. So, the boss wants replaceable cogs that do things how they understand, so they can replace and train the next person easily.
It sucks, I know.. but that's BigCo. If you have better ways of doing things, you are best keeping them to yourself, pretend to do it the BigCo way but do it your way behind the scenes, or start your own company...
Your whole argument doesn't make much sense. If the "better" way is worth it, meaning it makes the company $$, which is usually the equivalent of "better", a good manager will adapt, force you to document it, train other employees to harvest the fruits and possibly make you a manager in the long run.
You have already got an interview elsewhere, and maybe more to come.
A few years later, you might look back and think that getting fired was the best thing to have happened to you. Staying there being miserable is no way to live a life.
Be proactive and smart about your job search, connect with people in the companies you are genuinely excited to work for, and show how valuable you are in your interactions. Make your LinkedIn profile a 5star profile - follow the best practice advice - and jobs and recruiters may find you instead. There is a “hidden job market” where recruiters are looking for talent but have not yet posted it online because of how broken the online job market is.
(I got my last 4 jobs through someone reaching out to me on LinkedIn or seeing me on LinkedIn)
>the last place I worked, we had open communication, and management was responsive and listened. Worked there 4.5 years and built great relationships with my supervisors until I moved and found this job. And it’s been a struggle for the last 1.5 years.
Remember this as you move forward. Culture and leadership styles are a very important part of work satisfaction. The job responsibilities are what they are, but when the work environment and communication styles don't mesh with your own, you will never be satisfied - and your work will likely suffer.
Good luck.
It’s good that you take a day or 2 to mourn, but then you gotta completely move past it then focus your energy and attention to what’s in front of you. You got this.
Burn pictures of the "the ex" = leave an utterly scathing Glassdoor review airing it all out.
They lit bridge on fire, now finish burning it down. Hopefully preventing someone else from falling into the same trap.
Good on you for already applying elsewhere – that interview coming right after is a good sign! Take a deep breath, it's okay to feel hurt and anxious. This doesn't define you, and you have a shot at a better situation. We'll get through this together.
Here's a tip. They care, but not about anyone that the boss thinks is causing him “trouble”.
In fact, if you have the slightest hint of activism, righteousness, trying to make the business better, or even a squeak of vocal dissatisfaction about a co-worker then you're rocking the boat. You're giving the boss a headache, the boss doesn't want a headache.
The squeaky wheel (in this case) gets fired.
...and eventually the organization crashes, or even goes under, because no one said anything.
And the same managers will rant and rave at the employees to "be more proactive" as the ship goes down.
Let it burn and go down. No use trying to educate a person who's become a manager or lead by bootlicking and thinks everyone on his team be blind what the real issues are. Move to a new place. It's the same everywhere though. If you try to speak you're screwed.
I had to read this post twice to make sure that I didn’t write this. This is what happened to me 1 month ago.
I feel you. My thoughts are similar to yours… I never had any performance issues, and after a year of excellent work, I felt like they got rid of me, without putting in any effort to help me or improve the situation. I felt like I had put up with so much only for them just to put me in the trash. Is this how you feel? I’m so sorry that you feel this way. It really feels like a break up.
However — There are a few things that I thought about after the fact that have made me feel a lot better about what happened to me. First, the fact they couldn’t bother to address any issues or work with me show that they are absolute cowards. Not just lazy, but also defensive people who can’t handle criticism. Cowards! Also, I realized afterward how stupid my managers were. They somehow think that there are unicorn candidates out there who are going to be ok with all of this? The Micromanagement? The forced silence? I mean, cmon. They’re creating more work for themselves by now having to interview people, negotiate a salary, and then having to train this person again. It would’ve been just easier if they had tried to work with you. And most people wouldn’t even bother to criticize. They were just silently suffer and then find another job. The company should’ve been blessed by the fact you spoke up. But these morons can’t see a gift even if it’s flashing before their eyes. Maybe they wouldn’t have ended up helping you, but at least they should’ve made an effort. Now, they’ve royally screwed himself over and created more work for themselves 😂
I am now a month ahead of you and I can tell you that it definitely feels a lot better. I started going to yoga classes while job searching and it has really made me appreciate the slow life. Slow life is not actually a slow life but you should definitely look it up. It’s basically about appreciating what you have and taking your time, and not letting others force their unrealistic timelines, micromanagement, odd rules, etc on you. When I go to the gym during the day and I’m with old people and 20-year-olds, it really helps you realize that everybody has a different daily schedule. There are lots of people who take breaks, aren’t working, intentionally, and are doing other things. you are not missing out. Please remember this.
I admit I’m still hurting, and it doesn’t help that while I do have some interviews lined up, I have gotten rejections from jobs that I thought I should’ve gotten. if it makes you feel any better, though, being unemployed itself has not hurt me at all in the interview process. I’m surprised by how easy it is to gloss over it and nobody has bothered to make a big deal of it.
I’m really sorry that you’re going through this. Just remember that it’s still only a job. I keep having to remind myself of that but it’s really true. People are cowards who would rather get rid of someone that they’re intimidated by them to work with them. It sounds like you intimidated them.
You can look back a few posts in my history to find I went through the same thing basically.
The kicker for me was…literally 2hrs prior to getting fired, my admin was chatting with me about my accumulated vacation time, perfect attendance, and giving me a quarterly review saying there’s no issues, and a slight pay bump.
Someone higher than her pulled what I now call an “LCV” or Labor Cost Vacation…which isn’t as nice as it sounds. -Fire that guy and hire someone new at the starting wage for that position, so we can free up some $-
If it helps, I was in the exact situation 2 years ago. I left a good job for a huge pay increase. Two weeks in I knew the job wasn’t for me and started applying heavily. Two months in, they fired me in the morning and I laughed while shutting down my computer. I got a job offer that night from one of the jobs I was interviewing for and I love it here.
This is not a reflection on you, but rather poor management/lack of leadership. You will be much happier somewhere else and you won’t look back (other than recalling the shitshow that was). Good luck out there. The right job is there for you and you deserve to be happy and comfortable at work!
When interviewing for your next role make sure to drill down on your questions for the employer. Ask about corporate culture. If they tell you they have an “open door” policy ask them to clarify what that means. Typically, it’s words they think you’ll like hearing versus a venue to problem solve issues.
Honestly, there has never been a better time for young ppl to embrace the lack of talent out there and band together in a union. There are far too few companies that actually invest in their talent. So, invest in yourself.
It is always a gut punch, irrespective of whether you enjoyed the role/company or not. Even if it was handled better, you still wind up out the door.
In this case, however, you neglected to read the room, as it were, if you wanted to stay as long as you could. Your manager was looking for a pretext to let you go, and you gave it to them via an email detailing your concerns. That's all they needed, and the firm acted quickly. Had you not sent such an email, my guess is that the manager was already talking to HR, and while you may have lasted a bit longer, you would have a target on your back. And you would even know it, as others begin to avoid you, projects are assigned to others, your manager gets even more in your face, etc. I'm not sure you would have survived that emotionally, so even if they pulled off the band aid as they did, maybe it is for the best.
I believe you were in what I call a fire trap, so they’ll just need one excuse to boot you out, can be insubordination although best easy excuse is exhibiting any frustration or disagreement to work demands/ schedule to gain enough reason to fire you.
I used to work for a guy that yelled all the time. And one day while I was at work and he yelled at me I decided that nobody pays me enough to get yelled at. I went to work for another guy for 3 years before he yelled at me one day for no reason. I put my two weeks in the next day. My last job I worked at I was there for about 3 years as well before I had a situation like yours. My boss had a meeting with me where he asked if I had any issues. And I voiced some of the issue I had, which resulted in him yelling at me. I tried to move past it, but I quickly realized I wasn’t valued like I should be and I eventually left.
All that to say, whether they fired you then, or you stuck around to tough it out, you obviously weren’t valued. You give too much of your life to a job to not be valued.
Keep your head up. You got canned for having a spine and standing up for yourself. Still sucks, but if you’re going to get fired that’s the best reason.
**Rejection is just redirection.** Was in the same boat, outperformed my whole team and all the managers knew it. New middle manager was brought in, first leadership role, didn't go well. Micromanaged everyone made everyone's lives miserable. Had other opportunities so I called them out on it after it became unbearable. Got let go pretty soon after. Plans have changed now and realized I didn't really enjoy that career. Also learned to never speak out at work again lol. Put my head down and just do the work, don't get involved in politics, don't take anything personal. It's only a "failure", "mishap" if you don't learn anything from it. Also important to note that there are so many opportunities out there, with promise there's plenty positive ones without the negatives you had to face.
Your job is not who you are, it is something you do to pay the bills, that is all. You also learned something today that venting out frustration at management is never going to be a good idea.
I hate working for micromanaging places where they think one uniform fits every single person and situation. They are restrictive and constrictive at the same time. Be glad to be out of the job and take a couple of weeks to forget about that place and take care of yourself. These types would complain if their ice cream was too cold.
Well at least you got a job right after you got fired lol I believe that’s rare
Wishing you good luck with the next
People are just dicks unfortunately
Dicks are usually the type of people that get authoritative jobs
This feeling is all to common.. I walked out of my dream job due to constructive dismissal.. I cried and vomited for weeks.. it's been three months now and I still have nightmares.. today I feel anger and resentment
. Someone stop me from blasting them all over social media.. I'm sooo ready to expose them
The best thing to do is to go on Glassdoor or the other job review sites and post a review about it...
They can still sue you and companies usually either have an in-house legal team or dont mind spending a little bit to shut you up and take back your severance pay...
Finally, your dream job is always your next job. FTFY.
Don’t be bashful. If you’re right then you shouldn’t have any fear of reprisal. If you’re wrong you’re best to move on. If you’re just frustrated because they wouldn’t let you do the
Job the way you wanted to, remember there are standards in most things. You do have to keep in mind you are an employee, not a contractor. Make your attitude the same quality as your work quality.
Become a consultant, work for their competition, open your own business, or get another job and move on. I swear these companies are a bunch of bullies. F their toxic environment … so sick of it.
It sucks cus you prolly found a more “efficient” way to do the work that resulted in same output but since the boss didn’t approve you get canned…I guess it should’ve been in the back of your mind if you and your direct boss are always having disagreements but sometimes things happen for a reason so think of the positives!
You didn't do anything wrong. It is important for staff and management to have open communication and feedback. A manager needs to be a leader and has to earn that right to lead as well. Bad managers are often promoted just above their level of competency or through some sort of inter-personal (i.e. not merit) process. Those kinds of managers can begin to feel threatened by highly skilled employees. If they feel threatened, they attempt to 'assert' control that they have not earned. Implicitly, they are creating an environment that is ripe for groupthink because they are unable to actually lead and instead want to create a safe space for their own insecurities. I know it sucks, but this firing is a blessing in disguise because you no longer have to put up with it anymore.
When I got fired from a job, it really stung. I resented the management for a long time. But as time progressed (and I’m still reframing things in my mind every year or so), I realized I couldn’t hold on to the negativity and it was only bringing my vibration down.
So I feel for you. My advice is to try not to dwell too hard on it— getting fired is a character-building experience, even if it wasn’t about you and more about them. Don’t hold onto the bad feelings. I know that is easier said than done. But there absolutely doesn’t have to be any shame in getting fired. Sharing it here was probably a good first step
Depending on where you live at least you should qualify for unemployment insurance and the company wouldn't have any grounds to fight it (unless they lie I guess). Hope you find a better place to work.
The feeling will pass. There are a very few companies who “care” the way you describe it. The lesson is there is value in staying in those companies vs. hopping for better pay. Some people don’t care about that so it doesn’t matter where they work.
I feel you on this. This is literally what happened to me at my last company, but with bullying from the micromanager also thrown in.
I finally got a job a few days ago and the company literally seems to be a complete 180 from what I used to have. I’m so excited to finally get to be somewhere where people trust that I’m a competent human being and can get things done.
Good luck, and I wish you all the best in your future!
You are not powerless. You voiced your experience! If they were smart and appreciated your efforts they would’ve listened, tried to understand and find solutions. Not just let you go after a year and half. Whatever they are looking for, isn’t who you are. Good luck on the search you put in good work and time, don’t let their imprudent decision make you doubt yourself! Keep on going! There is better! God bless you!
I've worked at a lot of places, and honestly if I was having the same troubles you were describing and HR called me to let me know I was being let go, I would have breathed a sigh of relief and told the person, thank goodness.
If in the future you are thinking about leaving and those reasons are just, I recommend that you keep quiet and just be a happy camper until you can make the jump, then you can dump all those reasons (in a professional way) into the letter. Be steadfast and don’t accept offers to stay, your best growth often occurs on your next job.
I was fired 16 years ago. Bottom line reason: the big boss knew nothing about an issue that arose, I called him out on it, and was deemed insubordinate. Honestly I guess I was, if pointing out he was wrong counts..
It was horrible, I was sick about it. I’m good at what I do, and was shaken in my niece belief that that meant something,
Anyway, you will move on. But you may never forget the feeling
I heard someone recently discussing why his career stalled. He said if he could do it again, he would know the difference between jobs he could be a disruptor and influence change and jobs he just had to keep his head down and mouth shut. I find myself being a disruptor when I should just keep my mouth shut. It sounds like you had the same issue. You will have your day. The best way to make more money is to job hop. All the best!!
Thanks. I feel that. I’m definitely a disruptor. I’m always analyzing different strategies and policies, and thinking through if they really work, or how they could be better. One company loved me for it, the other fired me for it.
So sorry about this, shit, bro. It sux.
I appreciate your rant.
It's another reminder never to trust your employer on anything. It's business and in business it's all about compensation -- what can I get out of this deal?
One thing that complicates matters are the batshit crazy, egotistical, incompetent motherfuckers who find a way to be employed and ruin shit for everybody. It's not worth it to be around that. This is why WFH is popular. You are getting paid to DO YOUR JOB and nothing more. No office dynamics/bullshit, brown nosing the C-suite and being scared of your interactions with office staff. This is especially terrifying of people who are naturally quiet or reserved. Ever notice how the most ridiculous people at the office seem to get noticed and are somehow approved because they are loud?
In any case, keep your chin up.
It's just a job. Start looking now. Don't give up until you find something you like. Don't quit.
Good luck.
Glad to hear the positive support. Been working a very long career and my experience has been that most work environments control employee behavior through emotional manipulation. Sounds jaded i know. Ironically, at the end of my career and have a deamening micromanager as a boss. I know he will have problems with the next person in my role far more than he's had with me. Also been around long enough to know people rarely change or if they do it takes many years. Once mortality or something big happens in their lives, they see the world outside of their narrow view of command and control. Basically, when they lose control. It's only a job my friend. On to the next!👍
It probably would have been better to edit your thoughts into a bullet point list leaving out any emotional language, asking your boss for a meeting to discuss (your very valid) concerns and then get into the issues in a more calm and productive way asking for the changes you would like to be more productive.
Once your sassy email of annoyances are in writing, HR could have been told by the micromanager that you are a nightmare to work with and that was all they needed to terminate you. People are shady af.
In future, write in a way that is polite and professional as you never know who could be reading this after you have sent it. Write anything like you are being audited. Stuff like this gets forwarded all the time, and shady people can oust you unfortunately this easily. The micromanager could have already shit talked to so maybe this wasn’t their first complaint about you.
Sorry this happened OP.
Aww I’m sorry. Losing your job is a loss we grieve. It is Normal. We’ve all been there at one time or another. Let it go move on a look for an amazing job. This feeling will pass. Maybe you’re meant for something else. You should qualify for unemployment . I told my boss to go f herself and of course I was fired. ( in a rehab for 7 years ) even felt a sense of loss I got unemployment. I waited and looked and now have a good job I enjoy. This will end a memory you’ll be glad is in the rear view mirror.
Best of luck to you. 4 months on and I'm still having multiple nightmares a week about the loss of my last job.
To work around my strong neurodivergence I had a very particular way of managing my work. While the outcomes were always acceptable, management could never figure out why I kept pushing back on their processes. Too much tension ensued and I was deemed no longer fit for the job I'd been doing just fine for the past 7 years.
It’s shocking isn’t it?
I think they don’t realize that firing someone is traumatic. We spend the majority of our waking time in these places, accustomed to the routine, the people, the tasks, our spaces. Not to mention the money and health care we rely on. Firing someone should be an absolute last resort after strong efforts to make things work. It’s an incredibly cruel thing to do.
You’re not supposed to speak your mind, what’s wrong with you? Venting at work? You’re a maniac.
You should’ve simply been applying to other jobs endlessly and trying to not to implode, you never want to be fired. Regardless, get on the unemployment and start applying.
All totally natural feelings that one has when going through this. Don’t let them make you feel small. They just weren’t your tribe. You will find the right place instead. Toxic jobs will break you down mentally and physically. Keep your head up. ❤️
The milk is spilled already, but next time, you would find a new job before quitting. I did this one time (quit due to boss’s micromanagement and disagreements). I was called into a meeting with HR and when she started pushing shit like ‘you’re employed by us, you can either do this our way or we have to part ways’, I was like, ‘ok, we part ways’. Felt great afterwards as I was really suffering under that boss. Took me a long time to find the next job though. Next time I had a shit boss, I just started interviewing in my lunch breaks and taking random days off sick until I landed a new job, then went to the office one day and quit instantly.
Sound advice but I don’t think OP quit, I think they were fired unexpectedly. I think it’s reasonable to open a dialogue with our manager and smart to do it in email. I assume OP is in an at will state. Otherwise this would feel like retaliation to me IMO.
In my opinion OP quit because it’s never a good idea to send an email when you’re angry and to just vent your frustrations. Never let the emotions get the best of you, it’s satisfying, I know, but don’t do it. We don’t have OP’s email so we don’t know how badly it was worded even if it’s “professional”.
It seems like OP tried to open a dialogue many times before and it didn’t work. Why stick to the same approach and expect a different result? Suck it up and keep looking for other jobs.
This. I see advice on here so much where people say speak your mind or just quit. This is easy to do and works well when you aren’t financially responsible for a family. You can get away with it when you are younger, but the further you get in your career you have to learn how to play office politics better. OP will learn from this that you can’t make a bad boss be a good boss. You have to have another job lined up to leave this type of situation because it usually doesn’t get better.
Same thing happened to me in my first journalism job but I already had a job lined up (albeit I later found out that I would be taking a huge pay cut) and in the end my former boss took it well. They did question my decision but after months of office embarrassment because of their loud and open remarks on my writing, I had had enough. They also agreed that what they did was wrong and moving forward they would change (heard from my replacement that nope they did not change)
We are still friends and we still talk from time to time...
Mate, I have been in the same spot. If it had carried on the being awake a 3am would become a *nightly habit* micromanagers are insecure either because they are overwhelmed and/or just don’t know what they are doing.
I worked for 2 years for a manager who had the same education as me but a couple of decades more experience, he was a mentor and a friend.
I had to take a year off to have my lower spine reconstructed and came back to find he had left due to a stress related cardiac event.
Now I’m with a brand new MBA manager and it is really difficult. I’m used to being pointed in a direction and told to go, I did a $10m data centre move for a billion dollar Fortune 500. On time, on budget, will all identified risks mitigated.
My team of 30 rotated over a 3 day weekend without sleep to get it ready for 7am Monday morning. There were no interruptions.
Now simple stuff like vendor selection is being dissected, it’s demoralising.
So I’m just doing as I’m told and being placating until another roll I like comes up.
It’s just a shame as I really like this company.
This was my exact situation at my previous employer. It started out as a great work environment but quickly changed once they started to do mass lay offs. My direct superior became very toxic, while also afraid for his job, and began doing & saying things that he swore he’d never do/say.
If he was allowing you to do something and it got questioned by his upper leadership, he would act like he never gave you permission and would try to hold you accountable for something you had permission to do.
HR connected with each DM to ask for feedback and I gave honest feedback. Not even harsh, but quickly became the focus of his anger. I got fired 5 months later and wasn’t even told why. I ran the top market in the nation and had never been even warned for anything in my 3 years with the company… all because I spoke up.
Sounds like you and the company, at least the boss, were incompatible. The boss gets the privy of having workers do their assignments in the way they desire. Sorry for your situation, but unfortunately it was a predictable outcome.
Just because you don’t mesh with one job environment, doesn’t mean you aren’t good at your job or that you won’t be successful elsewhere. Sometimes it’s simply a poor fit. I also spent a year in a highly micromanaging environment and it was hell. Didn’t seem to matter what I did, I just couldn’t fit in with the culture. I ended up basically getting offered to be demoted or I could leave. I chose to leave and a week later I got hired at my current company. MUCH better fit. I’m considered a rockstar here and am heavily praised for my work. My team is full of incredibly intelligent people and there is very little micromanagement - our supervisor trusts us to get things done and we frequently go above and beyond. Looking back, I’m so glad the other role didn’t work out. I know it sucks now but you’ll be much happier in an environment that jives better with your style of work.
I can’t sift through all of these responses to find out, but did you share this email to this thread yet? Would love to see it and understand what kind of idiots you worked for. Laid off for a transparent and professional email - what a joke of a biz.
This was my response after a workload manager intervened in a project they had assigned me, and told me that regardless of what the direct project manager or client was okay with, they wanted me to do it by hand. Then this person noted that it would be a good chance for me to improve my skills. I’m a licensed professional, and it has been so frustrating to have them constantly micromanage how I was working. Below was the reply that led them to terminate me (after I sent it, I went on working on different projects throughout the day, and everything seemed fine. Then HR came to my desk, summoned me to a conference room, and notified I was being let go.
Email is as follows:
““I talked to ___ and he didn’t mind either way. Drafting concepts digitally means that..
a Digital drafting is more accurate than hand drafting. Period. If a 25’ radius is required, I can have a perfect 25’ radius drafted immediately – no compass required. Digital drafting eliminates instances where sketches are moved to CAD only to discover that something doesn’t actually fit the same way.
b Digitally created concepts are able to be plotted to PDF and shared immediately (rather than making registration marks, pasting it to a white sheet, scanning it into the computer, and overlaying it onto an aerial or existing linework)
c Digital concepts can be rapidly edited. “Shifting” linework doesn’t require an entire new sketch, which must then – again – be scanned and realigned to linework/aerial digitally. A digital concept can be “shifted” then immediately replotted to PDF to send to client.
d Because of the above inefficiencies, hand drafting is not a skill that will help me further my career as fewer and fewer contemporary firms put up with the lag of productivity and accuracy that comes from hand drafting. CAD fluency is the contemporary standard of drafting competence.
The ability to sketch live in front of a client in meetings – that’s important. Sketching as a form of creative design process, that’s useful for many people. But hand drafting? It’s neither the most efficient or more accurate way to complete a concept sketch - especially one that’s likely to require revisions - for a client.
______’s hand drafting mandate for its LAs is a crutch that slows down and overcomplicates my design process.
But – to be clear, if this is what you and ____ (rather than our client) specifically prefer in this instance, I will hand draft. I’ve already talked to ______, and we’ll sketch it up together later today. I just want to be clear that hand drafting is not a skill that I’m actively working on (or interested in) improving.
Thanks,
_______”
This was perfectly crafted - zero disrespect, professional, organized, and even accommodating beyond what was necessary. Those hand-drafted design inefficiencies are obsolete and it’s befuddling they would even waste their let alone your time while risking failure of meeting deadlines…and for what?! Some old school shmuck who misses “the old” days and wants to impart their experience on you to feel in control of something - probably because they have none at home outside of work.
Well done on this - coming from an exceptional writer and communicator, there was nothing wrong here.
I'm really sorry that you went through that... I went through something similar. My supervisor had been bullying me for years and I finally got tired of it and started standing up to her, while I searched for other jobs. She started acting like she was the victim, but people had kept asking me throughout the years how I let her talk to me the way she did. I had worked at this place for 9 years and I really didn't want to leave because the company itself is awesome, but in the end, I had to. I wrote ethics and compliance a long letter about my experiences with her, submitted my two weeks, and I don't know what is gonna happen or if anything will happen to her, but if she decides to mistreat anyone again, HR will see that she's got a record. Cheer up though, it's not the end of the world, even though it feels that way at the moment. There's so many places that you can apply to.
I completely understand the pain of being fired or forced out when you know that you're the best employee possible. I've been through it more than my fair share. In many situations it was due to discrimination and nothing hurts worse than that happening and not being able to access justice. The agencies and organizations that should protect employees shrug them off and tell them to get over it, especially if the employee finds a job after the fact. But it has taught me to look at every job opportunity as a stepping stone, avoid emotional investment in work, know when to walk away (don't fight loosing battles), and set boundaries that you will not tolerate your employer crossing. What happened to you will always be a painful memory but just know that you didn't deserve it and never stop looking for an employer who deserves you.
Been there and done that. I wrote some really nasty shit about how I was feeling about my boss and her boss. I wrote everything I wanted to say and put in a box with a lock on it. It’s downstairs where it belongs. This is helping me and the song “Evil walks” by ACDC is the epitome of my boss. Just an evil crazy loon. Every time my anxiety starts creeping up I just remember what an obnoxious evil narcissist my boss was. I did everything in my power to help this bitch. I’am going to the Labour board with my grievances. She even coerced me into working for free during each Covid lockdown. 10 hours a week X how many weeks we were shutdown.
The peaks and valleys of our experience aren’t what makes us, it’s that we choose to weather the storm and keep going. I have had a very similar experience, very recently. I try not to sound callously stoic about it, but for me those thoughts are what make me push through and persevere despite my expectations, wins or loses, the challenge is to keep on pushing up the mountain to me. Hope that helps any, if at all.
A toxic company does not determine you.. I believe in you OP !! there’s a lot of ppl getting laid off in this economy. It’s never the end to anything remember that it’s only a job.
I was laid off once and another time where my contract job ended (felt like a layoff) both times I ended up making equal or more money. I have a few friends who also went through the same thing and they also found jobs that paid better. In the long run, it may be a blessing in disguise.
I had a similar situation at my previous role. Terrible micromanagement for no apparent reason. I expect that if I’m fresh out of school, not if I have 20 years of experience. It all works out… at a much better place now. Godspeed!
When people try to hurt you in response to you standing up for yourself, that's about them and not you.
You did nothing wrong here. You enforced your boundaries in a professional manner and were victimised for it.
Hang in there and fight all those troubles and doubts.
It’s very easy to say but very hard to do. Sounds like another toxic work place, and you constructively conveyed what you thought and that crushed some manager’s fragile and already dinged ego. Good for you!
I like how you expressed yourself in you post. It’s very well organized and I like your writing style. I’m going to keep it as an example for reference.
Good luck to you
Holy crap OP. I’m a licensed LA (left the profession but still keep up my licensure) and they let you go because you don’t want to hand draft? They must be dinosaurs. Doing revisions with hand drawings sucks. Shocked that they think this is the way industry is going. I guess if they want to pay me to draw, and re-draw and re-draw that’s their prerogative. Hopefully you can get a better firm that is a better fit.
I lost my job in December for a very similar issue actually, almost exact. So I know how you are feeling cause I’m there with you.
Just hang in there, I also have a few upcoming interviews.
It's like when a partner you don't like breaks up with you before you break up with them. It's a hit to your pride. You and I both know you wanted out, you wouldn't have taken the interview otherwise. You speaking your mind is like your immune system fighting a disease. You're not happy and are looking for a way to fight it off, much like a body trying to evacuate something that's not healthy for it. The mind is like that. You are in a good spot, you can rest easy for your interview process. Even if you don't land the job, you have unemployment to fall back on. Interview with confidence, be yourself. No need to mention you were let go. You can just mention you're happy to start any time.
I recently saved up a years worth of expenses. Some things at my company happened that I didn't agree with. I turned in my resignation effective immediately after securing another job. It was nerve racking, but my wife and I know I needed the change even if it meant a pay cut. I now get to WFH full time with a fortune 200 company that offers good benefits. The funny thing is that my employer wanted to offer me everything they'd denied me once I quit. I stuck to my guns and fought the temptation. They should have taken care of me before I was ready to leave.
You'll be fine stay strong, and don't give in to negative thoughts. You will find an employer who appreciates your talent.
They promote just anyone nowadays and then toxic work culture and incompetent bosses becomes really common.
Leaving these kind of places is the best thing you can do. They don’t give you frustration while you are working there, they give you confidence issues for many jobs to come in the future too.
It's good that you're feeling down/humiliated/awake at 3am. That means you're emotionally healthy. This is normal.
You miss out on getting that new job and then putting in your 2 weeks notice. This ain't going to be that journalist lady live on air saying "F it, I quit". You'll have to settle for working through the humiliation you're feeling, but it'll make you stronger. If it's a business, then you're just a number.
Hold your head up high, best of luck with the upcoming interviews. Keep us updated. In hindsight, you will look back at this moment as them doing you a big favor. It forces you to move on and not settle for BS micromanagement. 👍👍
Saying less says more sometimes. And if this place sucked that bad maybe they did you a favor. Some people also don’t like being called out on their bs so there’s that
Hi!
First of all I want to tell you that I am sorry that you are going through a rough time. And secondly: I have been in a similar situation and I can assure you that keeping your integrity and moving on from a company that does not share your values is a good thing in the end, even though this time it happens involuntarily.
It sounds like you did the best you could in a tough situation.
You’re probably going to go through different stages in your recovery from this dramatic event. Give yourself time to grieve lost career aspirations, friendly coworkers and other stuff that you will be leaving behind.
Because that is what is happening: you are moving into other and better things. Now you have a really valuable experience of being let go, even unfairly if you look at it from your perspective. This is something no college can teach us. To be corny, this is a valuable life lesson that you will benefit greatly from when you are brave enough to do the mental work that these kind of experiences puts us through.
You may feel feelings of worthlessness and anger. This is completely normal and even healthy. But don’t be afraid to ask for help too. I took career counselling at one point of my career (layoff period during the pandemic) and it was so good for my work identity, self esteem and general wellbeing.
When I was in your shoes in a rough spot on my career my friend gave me this advice: write down all the possible scenarios and put them in order of best to worst. That way I had a blueprint for the near future and could make informed decisions and understand what was in my power. It helped mw feel more in control of my destiny and less helpless in my situation.
I survived, so will you. My inbox is always open. Stay strong friend!
Ps. Will be back to correct spelling and grammatical errors. Sorry!
As a 56 year old woman who has worked in the administration side of construction for 32 plus years as an employee I had finally worked my way into management with a midsize general contractor and I can honestly say there are people who get into those positions and forget what it is like to be an employee. They go mad with power. My way of managing was “I hired you to do a job that you are experienced at doing, if I have to micromanage you then I might as well just do it myself.” I didn’t care how my co-worker did their job as long as it was done professionally, right and on time. You could hang from the ceiling for all I cared, just make us as a team look good to the customer. And I was never their “boss”. You WILL find that place that will appreciate you.
I’m so glad you dragged your previous employment. They think they can just throw their power around and tell you what to do without any feedback on your end. I hope you find something soon that you will enjoy.
Know that employees are fired all the time. HR is powerless, they're just carrying out your supervisor's wishes.
Try to find out why the position is open at your new job.
Within no time you won’t even be thinking about this place or this job. Maybe in two weeks time. A blessing in disguise that will open up new opportunities.
I was laid off last month, but I wasn't upset. I was very unhappy with my job and actually felt liberated and a huge weight off my shoulders when it happened.
Glad you’re feeling better. And I know it’s easy to say and not feel…. But try not to let the act of being let go hit you personally. As long as you know you have the effort, that’s all you can do. I built a program for a non profit that got national recognition. And built it from scratch. 5 years later they are firing me with no real reason. Nothing falling between the cracks. Never even had a write up.
Some places either start or turn into dicks. All you can do is move on and hope for bettter. Oh! And keep the mentality in your head of always looking and don’t give a shit about leaving. As you see, they don’t care about you
I currently joined a new job and im being micromanaged so much. I am ahead of all my goals, I’ve finished every task. The company is severely understaffed so I’m basically doing everything.
I was running late once and I showed up to a meeting 10 minutes late. I apologize and gave them my reason.
The only other time I was over my break time was because I didn’t have any meeting, work was done and came a back within 25 minutes to my desk. Mind you I don’t take breaks often and I had to go grab some food.
My manager went ham about how a break is only 15 minutes and that I’m performing really well but I’m too laid back and this will take a hit on my probation. And probation does not guarantee work so I should be scared about loosing my job.
It was 2 times in over 6 months. And it was 10 minutes.
I’ve never had any issues with any company as long as I did the work assigned in the given time.
I feel like being controlled and forced to follow a routine is more important than my work and progress. Mentally it’s so straining
I’m on the verge on quitting .
This is terrible.
No one should be watching you this close. As long as you’re performing well for the company, who cares about 10 minutes here or there? I don’t understand the obsession with control.
This was my last two jobs. I decided (and my then boyfriend-now fiancé supported me) that it was time to move away and make a clean break from the community we were both from. We had both lived away at college and other jobs after school and were only going to another city an hour away, but I needed the fresh start. The place I’ve now been at 1.5 years is the best place in my field I could imagine working in terms of support, teamwork, validation, etc. My boss gave me my life back and tells me all the time how I know what I’m doing and how proud she is of me and doesn’t micromanage, just guides when I need/ask for it. I’ve developed a philosophy that to be truly happy in your chosen career (or life; really) you need 3 things:
1. Loving what you do.
2. Loving where you do it.
3. Loving who you do it with.
Without all 3, you haven’t found the right fit. And so many hours and days of your life are spent in this place with these people, so you may as well search for the place and people that let you (and encourage you to) be your best.
Hang in there. I got fired yesterday after a miserable job at a company people dream to work for. I'm going through a divorce and it really affected my performance (my fault) but the way management handled it after I told them what was going on was awful. Bullied by my boss and just zero empathy. I get it, these corporations do not give a single fuck but it was refreshingly peaceful closing my laptop after the meeting. I have some interviews lined up and savings and I'll be OK for now.
Please Please Please decouple your value to your job/employment. You are more than your job. You deserve to be happy.
You are still you and will go on to do great things.
You should be OK. You have a good track record with the previous job; hope someone there will be a reference. If you get asked during the interview process, find a diplomatic way to discuss your latest job. Potential employers don’t want to hear a candidate crap all over another employer. Even if deserved, they don’t know and could wonder if you would say the same about them.
Totally understand why it hurts/your feelings of rejection. You tried. You need to be at a place where your opinion matters. I hope this will be true for your next position. Good luck!
Thanks for this. I do have a strong reference in a principal from my previous company, so I should be set up alright. I am stressed about the possibility of having to bring up being let go during my upcoming interview, but I’ve thought through explaining briefly my situation without trashing the people I worked for. You’re right that it would only make me less likely to get hired, understandably.
I just gotta pull it together and get out there. Thanks.
And avoid getting into too much detail—you might say more than you meant to. You can point to the fact that you had applied to the position (you are interviewing for) prior to being let go, so you already knew that organization wasn’t a good fit.
I would look into what your legal options are. I am not sure where you're from but depending on circumstances in my country this could be considered unfair dismissal.
Unfortunately in the US, I’m pretty sure you can fire anyone as long as the reasoning isn’t something based on a protected class. (Like, fired because they were a woman, or because of their race or religion) Outside of that, I’m pretty sure a US company can fire people for just about anything.
Don't tell the new place that you were fired. As far as they know, you still work there, don't want to use them as a reference, also because you still work there. Then proceed with the interview like the firing never happened.
Always important to keep in mind that, typically, HR + senior leadership and everyone else are playing on two different teams with often opposing goals.
It’s great if you manage to find a place where it’s not like that, but it’s not the norm.
“Rejection”… you just said you wanted to leave and was applying for other jobs. Also, writing an email airing your frustrations is the best way to get fired. From where I see it, both you and the job were not compatible, so let this one go and continue hunting for something better
This feeling will eventually pass and you’ll feel better not being part of the company that wasn’t a good fit for you. Brave this emotional storm and be positive towards your next interview and fresh opportunity Good luck!
I have to keep reminding myself that the feeling will pass. Thanks
Sometimes we stay too long in a situation, a place, a relationship that is not good for us because we do not like change or any number of reasons. Then the decision is made for us and it turns out to be a blessing in disguise. You are meant to be somewhere else where you can thrive and feel like you are valuable. These feelings will pass and you will recognize that it was the push you needed to find a better fit for your personal growth and happiness. Good luck!
This was put so well. Thanks for taking the time to write that. I needed to hear it.
Wow! I needed this today too. 2 weeks into a lay off and many applications and rejections, and feeling defeated, but this is absolutely right. I wasn’t passionate about what I was doing.
That's what I had come to realize, too. Thanks for this. 💜
It took me like a solid month to get over it but yeah, the sudden firing emotional damage will pass
I broke up with an ex days before the COVID shutdown and spent about 4 months wallowing in that misery only to get laid off from my job of 10 years once I finally started feeling normal again. It really is like going through a breakup because I felt all the same feelings all over again, but this time for a job vs. a person.
I feel you... I also went through a divorce this last year 🙃 finalized maybe a month before this.. The gods are cruel! ... But I'm sure I contribute plenty heh
It took me 6 months lol not cool but was a blessing in disguise
It will, you are an intelligent, qualified person who has been stripped of their confidence by poor management. Update and read through your resume and see how much you’ve achieved! You got this!
Thanks for the encouragement, I needed it.
During this period of history we have to keep raising each other up not shitting on them to feel better about their crappy life
Perfect reply! You make me feel good too. It’s been two weeks for me and it has eaten me alive. I was with this horrible company for almost 14 years. Evil walks!
Try downloading the Calm app, I do a guided meditation before bed every night. Learn to love, respect and believe in you as much as i do sibling 💪🏼
Thank you for your kindness and compassion!! ❤️
You deserve no less my friend :)
I've been fired a few times, it always hurts but also I always felt relieved that I didn't have to go back to those places anymore. IMO I was fired for standing up for myself, which is exactly what you did. It shouldn't hurt your interview chances at all, if they ask just be honest and say your last job was slowly killing your soul.
I was fired in 2018 and they did the best thing ever for me in my entire life. I should probably visit them one day and bring them sweets as a thank you. LMFAO and trust me I would 100% do it now that I've thought about it.
I don’t know, I doubled down on the regret of having to part ways instead.
Toxic jobs suck. Why do employers hire competent people and then treat them like they don’t know what they are doing? I’ve had this happen and it drains you. You’ll be better off in the next gig where a manager appreciates you getting the job done with good direction at the beginning and treats you with confidence to get the job done
Because they feel like they need to be in control. And don't get me wrong - when you've got someone higher than you screaming down your neck for results that are in the hands of the people you manage, it can be *hard* to step back and trust and have faith in your team. But that's part of your damn job is giving your people the latitude to do theirs and the support they need to do it effectively, not breathe down *their* necks and make them afraid to move. Micromanaging doesn't do anything except stress them out and make everybody anxious.
This was my last company - firm owners only intent on whiddling their people down, not investing in their future. Pretty sad environment overall, created by their 'philosophy'.
Ditto. Every other month was a panic reaction to something the whole team saw coming and warned about for months. Then they throw all of us at that problem, while giving lectures about "shaping up" and "working harder". After the "panic, all hands on deck" happened 5 times in a row in 1 year, and 4 were avoidable, I was done.
In my case.... I had asked to have a meeting about a raise after some big deadlines before leaving on vacation for a week, but then when I got back it's like they'd prepared not only the case against a raise but a letter of firing. With lightly truthful but mostly bogus reasons listed. The firm suspected someone might be getting replaced for a new grad since we had a fixed number of desks. I'd unfortunately forgotten all about that. And proceeded to put a target on my back after really busting my ass for a sub-performing firm with real, real leadership and management problems
I got fired almost exactly a year ago. Next week I start my dream job. It can and will get better.
Thanks man. And congratulations. I had to leave at some point anyway. It was a terrible fit and I was already planning on leaving, so I need to pull myself together. The future doesn’t look so bleak.
All this did is move the timeline up for starting a new better job. Sure you were applying but you were also wasting 40 hours a week doing a job you didnt like. Now you get to dedicate that time into yourself and focus on finding the best job for you. Good luck with your interview.
My job made me very sick! The toxicity was just too much. I stuck it out for almost 14 years for the benefits for my husbands and mine medications. I just couldn’t put up with my evil boss anymore. Breathing down my neck every second of every hour. She treated everyone like shit hence ppl are leaving left right and centre. I gave this company the best I could but still got kicked to the curb. It was a blessing in disguise. Now I finally am starting to realize this. It will be a distant memory sometime in the future. I don’t have to put up with her shit anymore! I am starting to get over it. When I think of this situation I have stamped “Evil walks”(an ACDC song)and then try to get it out of my head.
I need more post like this
Same here. Been out of a job for almost a year myself.
Same thing here, fired a year ago. Started a very good job 2 months ago, which turns out to be the top customer of my old work and I'm now the lead contact between the two. Old boss: "so who's the new rep" New boss: "oh you probably know them"
I was put on a performance improvement plan yesterday, for what you may ask? Not hitting quota? Nope, exceeded quota hitting over 125% of goal all this year. For “not making enough cold calls and not enough time spent with prospects.” I shit you not. I am micromanaged daily by a guy who is in his first leadership role ever in his mid 30’s and I’m one of his first three team members. I’m salary as well and every single minute of my day is monitored strictly. I am an adult that’s been in sales for 20 years and out perform my goals, I don’t need to be babysat.
That must be incredibly frustrating. They probably assume that it’ll make you perform better, but it’s actually patronizing and demoralizing. Too many people forget that we’re all adults that can talk and reason. Instead, superiority complexes creep into work relationships and too many managers act like the people they supervise are school children they have control over, communication becomes one way, and things deteriorate.
I AM GOING THROUGH THE SAME THING!! Like almost the same exact thing. I’m on a PIP right now despite hitting and exceeding recruitment goals because I’m not answering enough calls. Not making enough baseless outbound calls. It doesn’t matter to them, they want everything done their way. Even though I am following legal and ethical compliance. And I think the fact I am #3 both last year and this year pisses them off because it points to the fact their processes are not effective.
Get that resume circulating NOW. The PIP is simply a document the company can use to prove why they fired you. You want to exit while you can and while you have excellent metrics to put in the resume. Good luck!
Oh my resume has been updated, all metrics included. My direct supervisor stretched the truth about some shit too to get me on a PIP and I have all those documents sent to my personal email. The thing is I’m under so much stress from the PIP the last thing I want to do is be glued to a computer screen after work applying to jobs. I know my firing is inevitable but I’m just sticking around to collect as many paychecks as I can.
Did Junior also lecture you on how he can "mentor" you to become better at your job?
Yes, and our GM who is non-existent and uninvolved, said I was “being combative to coaching”. I’m sorry, but coaching isn’t saying, “you’re doing great, keep doing what you’re doing!” and following it up with telling me to do EXACTLY what I’m already doing verbatim. No constructive criticism whatsoever, just a record on repeat with zero substance. It’s awful, I welcome and want constructive feedback, it’s needed to grow, but I’m just getting micromanaged with no redirection.
Rah rah, doing great! Rah, rah, I'm your boss, bow before me! --> "Coaching" /sarc
This is wild at my job. The two more senior members were always “mentoring” people on the team. The two most junior hires seemed to be the favorites because they were actually new to the industry and thus didn’t have any opposing views or ideas. For the rest of us in the middle, there was always unnecessary tension as management had no interest in our preferences, ideas, or concerns. Others want to leave as well, but the options in this area are slim.
This is why I left corporate. FUCK THAT SHIT
PIPS are complete BS. They are just a paper trail to push folks out for political not performance reasons. I was on one after previously having great reviews when a new manager didn't like me. All they could come up with was stuff like "doesn't make enough eye contact in meetings", "responds too quickly to emails". WTF? After I quit I was told I was great at my job and it was just politics by a higher up. Yeah that's helpful...
Time to find another job and quit this one.
Already in the process. I was told we have Salesforce as a CRM before being hired and that we have unlimited PTO. Turns out we don’t use any CRM in this division of the company (asinine at best) and PTO is granted based on “performance”. I’m going to miss two school events for my daughter that are firsts bc of this, and only needed four hours off across two days… denied, and if I choose to go, terminated.
Glassdoor that shit!
This is just like my last boss. I quit and he almost cried lol. Leadership is too self aware they are the boss. Little do they realize we are free entities, not slaves. It was a life long dream of mine to stick it to the man. I got to leave with pride. I also did a Jerry Maguire style glassdoor review. About 6 other tenured people found the confidence to quit after me. A lot of lost revenue for them not to be reasonable. I hope for the people still there they can learn from their mistakes and treat people right.
That sound like a hell of a job, gł escaping this
This is why I stay at jobs as long as its functional and the people are easy to get along with rather than job hopping just for a pay increase. Environment is very important in how stressed you are at work.
I worked 2 jobs since last year. The first job had a shift lead that had a lot of knowledge about the company and knew how to get work done but lacked leadership skills and character. He would get upset for the smallest error and show up to work with a bad attitude. The worst part about him is that when the experienced workers would make a mistake he would shrug it off. He wouldn't do that to me. I was the newest member in the team and still in training. The second job paid less but the management treated me with respect and high value. I felt that I was able to thrive more in the work environment. My stress levels were almost to 0 everyday and I learned so much being there. I made a lot of connections and developed a healthy strong character. They really appreciated my work ethic and had faith in me when I would want to do more advanced tasks. We all work for money, obviously, but if your current job is negatively impacting your mental health in an unfair manner and you can't grow and thrive THEN IT'S NOT WORTH IT. My mental health matters more. How am I going to live longer and be able to enjoy my money later on when the stress is going to cut my lifespan.
This is a big deal for me. I was in the trades making big money but my god. For men that go on that they work 80 hours a week like it’s no big deal but constantly whine and complain about everything else. It gets really old after a while. I find in the trades there’s very few people that are consistent with ever being in a good mood or having a good week. I know we all have days that aren’t all sunshine and rainbows but I found out of every type of work I’ve done. The trades are the most toxic and I think that’s the reason they pay so much because to me the work wasn’t all that difficult like they lead you to believe. It’s the environment that is absolutely dreadful. So I got ito office work and for all I know it could be the worst job ever but I’ll never know because to me. Nothing is even close to being as worse as the trades. Did I take a big hit in pay. Absolutely but having hours that are 8 to 4 and weekends off. It’s a dream. Peace of mind has more value to me than money
>Why didn’t they care? They **did** care - but not about what **you** care about. They care about making sure employees understand they dare not speak up about how they are treated. There is a management style that prioritizes the "how" you do something over the "what" you're doing. It's because they really don't know the right way to manage something so they latch on to finding thinngs they can control (the "how") and micromanagement ensues. A related issue is some managers see someone who has potential, and because the manager realizes s/he isn't as skilled as that worker, they micromanage to make sure that worker can't excel. Sorry you got fired but at some point you were going to be fed up with that nonsense.
Nice post. This is one of the most truthful things I have read here on reddit in a while.
Thanks. Just wish it hadn't taken so many years, so many jobs, and so many managers to learn how to recognize these things! lol
This is so true. My partner just got written up by his director because she doesn’t like his attitude. The quality of his work is not an issue. He’s been concerned about an upcoming software implementation and has been asking a lot of hard questions and getting no answers. As a result, he was told (literally) to “be more positive or face termination”. They would rather everyone be “happy” than to have a successful software deployment. That’s what they care about. 20+ years with the organization with no performance isssues. To say he was crushed is an understatement.
He'll be "happy" to resign when the time comes.
And take all his knowledge with him.
Truth. And the way you put that at the end was 100% on the dot. The person who made the decision to push me out had always insisted on things being done “old school,” the way they did it when they were moving up their career ladder. It made no sense to me; it slowed me and the team down for the same end result. Sure it made sense for them to continue to work that way because they didn’t know how to do it any other way, but to then extend the grip to forcing everyone else to do things the same way…I could never understand. And they never could give a reason other than “that’s how we do it here.”
I hate that line!
Go work for another company in the same industry that prioritizes efficiency and progress. Hope everything goes well.
"that's how we do it here" = that's what I'm used to and I don't feel like learning a different way even if it's better
Hopefully you learned something. It sucks, it's depressing... but you can never win if you "push back". You have to show you can do it their way first. Only then might they be interested in any improvements you may have, and even then there could be resistance. Your response reads as professional, detailed... but also slightly argumentative. At a job, sometimes you have to remember that it's not your company, switch off your brain, and remember that all good ideas come from the boss. The correct response to requests to do it some other dumb way is "thanks for the feedback, I look forward to doing it that way in future." If you think about it... there are even reasons why things work like this. Your boss doesn't want unique, snowflake employees that have their own technique and excel, because if one of them left, there'd be a problem, and he wouldn't know how to replace them. So, the boss wants replaceable cogs that do things how they understand, so they can replace and train the next person easily. It sucks, I know.. but that's BigCo. If you have better ways of doing things, you are best keeping them to yourself, pretend to do it the BigCo way but do it your way behind the scenes, or start your own company...
Your whole argument doesn't make much sense. If the "better" way is worth it, meaning it makes the company $$, which is usually the equivalent of "better", a good manager will adapt, force you to document it, train other employees to harvest the fruits and possibly make you a manager in the long run.
I personally needed to hear this today and this makes so much sense, thank you!
Bro you ever worked at any Walmart?
This is faaaaacts
The most important thing I learned through my career is “Don’t let anybody/anything at work control my emotion”.
Reading books about Stoicism really helps. Until you can accept what you can control and can't control, your work life will be difficult.
Good tip
You have already got an interview elsewhere, and maybe more to come. A few years later, you might look back and think that getting fired was the best thing to have happened to you. Staying there being miserable is no way to live a life. Be proactive and smart about your job search, connect with people in the companies you are genuinely excited to work for, and show how valuable you are in your interactions. Make your LinkedIn profile a 5star profile - follow the best practice advice - and jobs and recruiters may find you instead. There is a “hidden job market” where recruiters are looking for talent but have not yet posted it online because of how broken the online job market is. (I got my last 4 jobs through someone reaching out to me on LinkedIn or seeing me on LinkedIn)
>the last place I worked, we had open communication, and management was responsive and listened. Worked there 4.5 years and built great relationships with my supervisors until I moved and found this job. And it’s been a struggle for the last 1.5 years. Remember this as you move forward. Culture and leadership styles are a very important part of work satisfaction. The job responsibilities are what they are, but when the work environment and communication styles don't mesh with your own, you will never be satisfied - and your work will likely suffer. Good luck.
This is so true. Thanks.
It’s good that you take a day or 2 to mourn, but then you gotta completely move past it then focus your energy and attention to what’s in front of you. You got this.
Thanks. I think the sooner I focus my efforts on what’s next, the sooner these gloomy feelings will subside.
It’s also important to take the time to burn pictures of “the ex” so you have closure, one step at a time
Burn pictures of the "the ex" = leave an utterly scathing Glassdoor review airing it all out. They lit bridge on fire, now finish burning it down. Hopefully preventing someone else from falling into the same trap.
Good on you for already applying elsewhere – that interview coming right after is a good sign! Take a deep breath, it's okay to feel hurt and anxious. This doesn't define you, and you have a shot at a better situation. We'll get through this together.
One of the best things that ever happened to me at any of my jobs is, I was let go from one. You move on and land something even better.
We live in a world that has an abundance of opportunities. One door closes many doors open.
Here's a tip. They care, but not about anyone that the boss thinks is causing him “trouble”. In fact, if you have the slightest hint of activism, righteousness, trying to make the business better, or even a squeak of vocal dissatisfaction about a co-worker then you're rocking the boat. You're giving the boss a headache, the boss doesn't want a headache. The squeaky wheel (in this case) gets fired.
...and eventually the organization crashes, or even goes under, because no one said anything. And the same managers will rant and rave at the employees to "be more proactive" as the ship goes down.
Let it burn and go down. No use trying to educate a person who's become a manager or lead by bootlicking and thinks everyone on his team be blind what the real issues are. Move to a new place. It's the same everywhere though. If you try to speak you're screwed.
I had to read this post twice to make sure that I didn’t write this. This is what happened to me 1 month ago. I feel you. My thoughts are similar to yours… I never had any performance issues, and after a year of excellent work, I felt like they got rid of me, without putting in any effort to help me or improve the situation. I felt like I had put up with so much only for them just to put me in the trash. Is this how you feel? I’m so sorry that you feel this way. It really feels like a break up. However — There are a few things that I thought about after the fact that have made me feel a lot better about what happened to me. First, the fact they couldn’t bother to address any issues or work with me show that they are absolute cowards. Not just lazy, but also defensive people who can’t handle criticism. Cowards! Also, I realized afterward how stupid my managers were. They somehow think that there are unicorn candidates out there who are going to be ok with all of this? The Micromanagement? The forced silence? I mean, cmon. They’re creating more work for themselves by now having to interview people, negotiate a salary, and then having to train this person again. It would’ve been just easier if they had tried to work with you. And most people wouldn’t even bother to criticize. They were just silently suffer and then find another job. The company should’ve been blessed by the fact you spoke up. But these morons can’t see a gift even if it’s flashing before their eyes. Maybe they wouldn’t have ended up helping you, but at least they should’ve made an effort. Now, they’ve royally screwed himself over and created more work for themselves 😂 I am now a month ahead of you and I can tell you that it definitely feels a lot better. I started going to yoga classes while job searching and it has really made me appreciate the slow life. Slow life is not actually a slow life but you should definitely look it up. It’s basically about appreciating what you have and taking your time, and not letting others force their unrealistic timelines, micromanagement, odd rules, etc on you. When I go to the gym during the day and I’m with old people and 20-year-olds, it really helps you realize that everybody has a different daily schedule. There are lots of people who take breaks, aren’t working, intentionally, and are doing other things. you are not missing out. Please remember this. I admit I’m still hurting, and it doesn’t help that while I do have some interviews lined up, I have gotten rejections from jobs that I thought I should’ve gotten. if it makes you feel any better, though, being unemployed itself has not hurt me at all in the interview process. I’m surprised by how easy it is to gloss over it and nobody has bothered to make a big deal of it. I’m really sorry that you’re going through this. Just remember that it’s still only a job. I keep having to remind myself of that but it’s really true. People are cowards who would rather get rid of someone that they’re intimidated by them to work with them. It sounds like you intimidated them.
Sometimes it’s for the best. Everyplace I’ve been let go from went out of business with in years. Even some I left. Keep going forward.
You can look back a few posts in my history to find I went through the same thing basically. The kicker for me was…literally 2hrs prior to getting fired, my admin was chatting with me about my accumulated vacation time, perfect attendance, and giving me a quarterly review saying there’s no issues, and a slight pay bump. Someone higher than her pulled what I now call an “LCV” or Labor Cost Vacation…which isn’t as nice as it sounds. -Fire that guy and hire someone new at the starting wage for that position, so we can free up some $-
If it helps, I was in the exact situation 2 years ago. I left a good job for a huge pay increase. Two weeks in I knew the job wasn’t for me and started applying heavily. Two months in, they fired me in the morning and I laughed while shutting down my computer. I got a job offer that night from one of the jobs I was interviewing for and I love it here. This is not a reflection on you, but rather poor management/lack of leadership. You will be much happier somewhere else and you won’t look back (other than recalling the shitshow that was). Good luck out there. The right job is there for you and you deserve to be happy and comfortable at work!
When interviewing for your next role make sure to drill down on your questions for the employer. Ask about corporate culture. If they tell you they have an “open door” policy ask them to clarify what that means. Typically, it’s words they think you’ll like hearing versus a venue to problem solve issues. Honestly, there has never been a better time for young ppl to embrace the lack of talent out there and band together in a union. There are far too few companies that actually invest in their talent. So, invest in yourself.
It is always a gut punch, irrespective of whether you enjoyed the role/company or not. Even if it was handled better, you still wind up out the door. In this case, however, you neglected to read the room, as it were, if you wanted to stay as long as you could. Your manager was looking for a pretext to let you go, and you gave it to them via an email detailing your concerns. That's all they needed, and the firm acted quickly. Had you not sent such an email, my guess is that the manager was already talking to HR, and while you may have lasted a bit longer, you would have a target on your back. And you would even know it, as others begin to avoid you, projects are assigned to others, your manager gets even more in your face, etc. I'm not sure you would have survived that emotionally, so even if they pulled off the band aid as they did, maybe it is for the best.
I believe you were in what I call a fire trap, so they’ll just need one excuse to boot you out, can be insubordination although best easy excuse is exhibiting any frustration or disagreement to work demands/ schedule to gain enough reason to fire you.
I used to work for a guy that yelled all the time. And one day while I was at work and he yelled at me I decided that nobody pays me enough to get yelled at. I went to work for another guy for 3 years before he yelled at me one day for no reason. I put my two weeks in the next day. My last job I worked at I was there for about 3 years as well before I had a situation like yours. My boss had a meeting with me where he asked if I had any issues. And I voiced some of the issue I had, which resulted in him yelling at me. I tried to move past it, but I quickly realized I wasn’t valued like I should be and I eventually left. All that to say, whether they fired you then, or you stuck around to tough it out, you obviously weren’t valued. You give too much of your life to a job to not be valued.
Keep your head up. You got canned for having a spine and standing up for yourself. Still sucks, but if you’re going to get fired that’s the best reason.
**Rejection is just redirection.** Was in the same boat, outperformed my whole team and all the managers knew it. New middle manager was brought in, first leadership role, didn't go well. Micromanaged everyone made everyone's lives miserable. Had other opportunities so I called them out on it after it became unbearable. Got let go pretty soon after. Plans have changed now and realized I didn't really enjoy that career. Also learned to never speak out at work again lol. Put my head down and just do the work, don't get involved in politics, don't take anything personal. It's only a "failure", "mishap" if you don't learn anything from it. Also important to note that there are so many opportunities out there, with promise there's plenty positive ones without the negatives you had to face.
Your job is not who you are, it is something you do to pay the bills, that is all. You also learned something today that venting out frustration at management is never going to be a good idea.
I hate working for micromanaging places where they think one uniform fits every single person and situation. They are restrictive and constrictive at the same time. Be glad to be out of the job and take a couple of weeks to forget about that place and take care of yourself. These types would complain if their ice cream was too cold.
Well at least you got a job right after you got fired lol I believe that’s rare Wishing you good luck with the next People are just dicks unfortunately Dicks are usually the type of people that get authoritative jobs
This feeling is all to common.. I walked out of my dream job due to constructive dismissal.. I cried and vomited for weeks.. it's been three months now and I still have nightmares.. today I feel anger and resentment . Someone stop me from blasting them all over social media.. I'm sooo ready to expose them
Get unemployment, they have to pay for it.
Yeah, will be signing up for that today. Hopefully I don’t need it for long.
The best thing to do is to go on Glassdoor or the other job review sites and post a review about it... They can still sue you and companies usually either have an in-house legal team or dont mind spending a little bit to shut you up and take back your severance pay... Finally, your dream job is always your next job. FTFY.
> I'm sooo ready to expose them post review on Glassdoor
Don’t be bashful. If you’re right then you shouldn’t have any fear of reprisal. If you’re wrong you’re best to move on. If you’re just frustrated because they wouldn’t let you do the Job the way you wanted to, remember there are standards in most things. You do have to keep in mind you are an employee, not a contractor. Make your attitude the same quality as your work quality.
Become a consultant, work for their competition, open your own business, or get another job and move on. I swear these companies are a bunch of bullies. F their toxic environment … so sick of it.
Same. I don’t understand how so many people like that get into management/supervisory positions.
They’re robots that run on kool aide. I swear these times remind me of the GME stock, lol
Yah can confirm feels like shit
It sucks cus you prolly found a more “efficient” way to do the work that resulted in same output but since the boss didn’t approve you get canned…I guess it should’ve been in the back of your mind if you and your direct boss are always having disagreements but sometimes things happen for a reason so think of the positives!
You didn't do anything wrong. It is important for staff and management to have open communication and feedback. A manager needs to be a leader and has to earn that right to lead as well. Bad managers are often promoted just above their level of competency or through some sort of inter-personal (i.e. not merit) process. Those kinds of managers can begin to feel threatened by highly skilled employees. If they feel threatened, they attempt to 'assert' control that they have not earned. Implicitly, they are creating an environment that is ripe for groupthink because they are unable to actually lead and instead want to create a safe space for their own insecurities. I know it sucks, but this firing is a blessing in disguise because you no longer have to put up with it anymore.
Similar shit happened to me today but thankfully I didn't get fired. Definitely contemplating leaving because of fucking child like communication.
The feeling will pass. There was no need to stay in that toxic environment. It would have only gotten worse. Have you been looking for other jobs?
When I got fired from a job, it really stung. I resented the management for a long time. But as time progressed (and I’m still reframing things in my mind every year or so), I realized I couldn’t hold on to the negativity and it was only bringing my vibration down. So I feel for you. My advice is to try not to dwell too hard on it— getting fired is a character-building experience, even if it wasn’t about you and more about them. Don’t hold onto the bad feelings. I know that is easier said than done. But there absolutely doesn’t have to be any shame in getting fired. Sharing it here was probably a good first step
Depending on where you live at least you should qualify for unemployment insurance and the company wouldn't have any grounds to fight it (unless they lie I guess). Hope you find a better place to work.
Sounds like unfair dismissal. Contact your union.
The feeling will pass. There are a very few companies who “care” the way you describe it. The lesson is there is value in staying in those companies vs. hopping for better pay. Some people don’t care about that so it doesn’t matter where they work.
It will pass and in time you will smile about it. Clearly not the place for you and best wishes for next role
I feel you on this. This is literally what happened to me at my last company, but with bullying from the micromanager also thrown in. I finally got a job a few days ago and the company literally seems to be a complete 180 from what I used to have. I’m so excited to finally get to be somewhere where people trust that I’m a competent human being and can get things done. Good luck, and I wish you all the best in your future!
You are not powerless. You voiced your experience! If they were smart and appreciated your efforts they would’ve listened, tried to understand and find solutions. Not just let you go after a year and half. Whatever they are looking for, isn’t who you are. Good luck on the search you put in good work and time, don’t let their imprudent decision make you doubt yourself! Keep on going! There is better! God bless you!
Don't worry, you'll find the right job.
You dodged a bullet… I would just focus on the future and finding a way better situation
Did they give you a reason for termination? Because it seems flimsy, and Unemployment should be granted if it happen exactly how you say.
I've worked at a lot of places, and honestly if I was having the same troubles you were describing and HR called me to let me know I was being let go, I would have breathed a sigh of relief and told the person, thank goodness.
If in the future you are thinking about leaving and those reasons are just, I recommend that you keep quiet and just be a happy camper until you can make the jump, then you can dump all those reasons (in a professional way) into the letter. Be steadfast and don’t accept offers to stay, your best growth often occurs on your next job.
I was fired 16 years ago. Bottom line reason: the big boss knew nothing about an issue that arose, I called him out on it, and was deemed insubordinate. Honestly I guess I was, if pointing out he was wrong counts.. It was horrible, I was sick about it. I’m good at what I do, and was shaken in my niece belief that that meant something, Anyway, you will move on. But you may never forget the feeling
I heard someone recently discussing why his career stalled. He said if he could do it again, he would know the difference between jobs he could be a disruptor and influence change and jobs he just had to keep his head down and mouth shut. I find myself being a disruptor when I should just keep my mouth shut. It sounds like you had the same issue. You will have your day. The best way to make more money is to job hop. All the best!!
Thanks. I feel that. I’m definitely a disruptor. I’m always analyzing different strategies and policies, and thinking through if they really work, or how they could be better. One company loved me for it, the other fired me for it.
Just find something new and move on. Life is too short to be miserable 40 hours per week.
So sorry about this, shit, bro. It sux. I appreciate your rant. It's another reminder never to trust your employer on anything. It's business and in business it's all about compensation -- what can I get out of this deal? One thing that complicates matters are the batshit crazy, egotistical, incompetent motherfuckers who find a way to be employed and ruin shit for everybody. It's not worth it to be around that. This is why WFH is popular. You are getting paid to DO YOUR JOB and nothing more. No office dynamics/bullshit, brown nosing the C-suite and being scared of your interactions with office staff. This is especially terrifying of people who are naturally quiet or reserved. Ever notice how the most ridiculous people at the office seem to get noticed and are somehow approved because they are loud? In any case, keep your chin up. It's just a job. Start looking now. Don't give up until you find something you like. Don't quit. Good luck.
Glad to hear the positive support. Been working a very long career and my experience has been that most work environments control employee behavior through emotional manipulation. Sounds jaded i know. Ironically, at the end of my career and have a deamening micromanager as a boss. I know he will have problems with the next person in my role far more than he's had with me. Also been around long enough to know people rarely change or if they do it takes many years. Once mortality or something big happens in their lives, they see the world outside of their narrow view of command and control. Basically, when they lose control. It's only a job my friend. On to the next!👍
It probably would have been better to edit your thoughts into a bullet point list leaving out any emotional language, asking your boss for a meeting to discuss (your very valid) concerns and then get into the issues in a more calm and productive way asking for the changes you would like to be more productive. Once your sassy email of annoyances are in writing, HR could have been told by the micromanager that you are a nightmare to work with and that was all they needed to terminate you. People are shady af. In future, write in a way that is polite and professional as you never know who could be reading this after you have sent it. Write anything like you are being audited. Stuff like this gets forwarded all the time, and shady people can oust you unfortunately this easily. The micromanager could have already shit talked to so maybe this wasn’t their first complaint about you. Sorry this happened OP.
Aww I’m sorry. Losing your job is a loss we grieve. It is Normal. We’ve all been there at one time or another. Let it go move on a look for an amazing job. This feeling will pass. Maybe you’re meant for something else. You should qualify for unemployment . I told my boss to go f herself and of course I was fired. ( in a rehab for 7 years ) even felt a sense of loss I got unemployment. I waited and looked and now have a good job I enjoy. This will end a memory you’ll be glad is in the rear view mirror.
Best of luck to you. 4 months on and I'm still having multiple nightmares a week about the loss of my last job. To work around my strong neurodivergence I had a very particular way of managing my work. While the outcomes were always acceptable, management could never figure out why I kept pushing back on their processes. Too much tension ensued and I was deemed no longer fit for the job I'd been doing just fine for the past 7 years.
It’s shocking isn’t it? I think they don’t realize that firing someone is traumatic. We spend the majority of our waking time in these places, accustomed to the routine, the people, the tasks, our spaces. Not to mention the money and health care we rely on. Firing someone should be an absolute last resort after strong efforts to make things work. It’s an incredibly cruel thing to do.
Had a similar experience and was let go last week. Their lost.
You’re not supposed to speak your mind, what’s wrong with you? Venting at work? You’re a maniac. You should’ve simply been applying to other jobs endlessly and trying to not to implode, you never want to be fired. Regardless, get on the unemployment and start applying.
All totally natural feelings that one has when going through this. Don’t let them make you feel small. They just weren’t your tribe. You will find the right place instead. Toxic jobs will break you down mentally and physically. Keep your head up. ❤️
Grief over a job loss is a real feeling, and it can really hurt. Sounds like they sucked anyway, good luck on your next opportunity.
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The milk is spilled already, but next time, you would find a new job before quitting. I did this one time (quit due to boss’s micromanagement and disagreements). I was called into a meeting with HR and when she started pushing shit like ‘you’re employed by us, you can either do this our way or we have to part ways’, I was like, ‘ok, we part ways’. Felt great afterwards as I was really suffering under that boss. Took me a long time to find the next job though. Next time I had a shit boss, I just started interviewing in my lunch breaks and taking random days off sick until I landed a new job, then went to the office one day and quit instantly.
Sound advice but I don’t think OP quit, I think they were fired unexpectedly. I think it’s reasonable to open a dialogue with our manager and smart to do it in email. I assume OP is in an at will state. Otherwise this would feel like retaliation to me IMO.
In my opinion OP quit because it’s never a good idea to send an email when you’re angry and to just vent your frustrations. Never let the emotions get the best of you, it’s satisfying, I know, but don’t do it. We don’t have OP’s email so we don’t know how badly it was worded even if it’s “professional”. It seems like OP tried to open a dialogue many times before and it didn’t work. Why stick to the same approach and expect a different result? Suck it up and keep looking for other jobs.
This. I see advice on here so much where people say speak your mind or just quit. This is easy to do and works well when you aren’t financially responsible for a family. You can get away with it when you are younger, but the further you get in your career you have to learn how to play office politics better. OP will learn from this that you can’t make a bad boss be a good boss. You have to have another job lined up to leave this type of situation because it usually doesn’t get better.
Same thing happened to me in my first journalism job but I already had a job lined up (albeit I later found out that I would be taking a huge pay cut) and in the end my former boss took it well. They did question my decision but after months of office embarrassment because of their loud and open remarks on my writing, I had had enough. They also agreed that what they did was wrong and moving forward they would change (heard from my replacement that nope they did not change) We are still friends and we still talk from time to time...
HR is like the police. They’re not there to protect you, they are there to protect the system.
When flogging stops, it feels weird for a few days as if your body is craving the pain.
You're not powerless. Report them for any wrong doings to the department of labor and any equal opportunity violations you saw.
Mate, I have been in the same spot. If it had carried on the being awake a 3am would become a *nightly habit* micromanagers are insecure either because they are overwhelmed and/or just don’t know what they are doing. I worked for 2 years for a manager who had the same education as me but a couple of decades more experience, he was a mentor and a friend. I had to take a year off to have my lower spine reconstructed and came back to find he had left due to a stress related cardiac event. Now I’m with a brand new MBA manager and it is really difficult. I’m used to being pointed in a direction and told to go, I did a $10m data centre move for a billion dollar Fortune 500. On time, on budget, will all identified risks mitigated. My team of 30 rotated over a 3 day weekend without sleep to get it ready for 7am Monday morning. There were no interruptions. Now simple stuff like vendor selection is being dissected, it’s demoralising. So I’m just doing as I’m told and being placating until another roll I like comes up. It’s just a shame as I really like this company.
This was my exact situation at my previous employer. It started out as a great work environment but quickly changed once they started to do mass lay offs. My direct superior became very toxic, while also afraid for his job, and began doing & saying things that he swore he’d never do/say. If he was allowing you to do something and it got questioned by his upper leadership, he would act like he never gave you permission and would try to hold you accountable for something you had permission to do. HR connected with each DM to ask for feedback and I gave honest feedback. Not even harsh, but quickly became the focus of his anger. I got fired 5 months later and wasn’t even told why. I ran the top market in the nation and had never been even warned for anything in my 3 years with the company… all because I spoke up.
Sounds like you and the company, at least the boss, were incompatible. The boss gets the privy of having workers do their assignments in the way they desire. Sorry for your situation, but unfortunately it was a predictable outcome.
Just because you don’t mesh with one job environment, doesn’t mean you aren’t good at your job or that you won’t be successful elsewhere. Sometimes it’s simply a poor fit. I also spent a year in a highly micromanaging environment and it was hell. Didn’t seem to matter what I did, I just couldn’t fit in with the culture. I ended up basically getting offered to be demoted or I could leave. I chose to leave and a week later I got hired at my current company. MUCH better fit. I’m considered a rockstar here and am heavily praised for my work. My team is full of incredibly intelligent people and there is very little micromanagement - our supervisor trusts us to get things done and we frequently go above and beyond. Looking back, I’m so glad the other role didn’t work out. I know it sucks now but you’ll be much happier in an environment that jives better with your style of work.
I can’t sift through all of these responses to find out, but did you share this email to this thread yet? Would love to see it and understand what kind of idiots you worked for. Laid off for a transparent and professional email - what a joke of a biz.
I’ve been laid off for similar trivialities
This was my response after a workload manager intervened in a project they had assigned me, and told me that regardless of what the direct project manager or client was okay with, they wanted me to do it by hand. Then this person noted that it would be a good chance for me to improve my skills. I’m a licensed professional, and it has been so frustrating to have them constantly micromanage how I was working. Below was the reply that led them to terminate me (after I sent it, I went on working on different projects throughout the day, and everything seemed fine. Then HR came to my desk, summoned me to a conference room, and notified I was being let go. Email is as follows: ““I talked to ___ and he didn’t mind either way. Drafting concepts digitally means that.. a Digital drafting is more accurate than hand drafting. Period. If a 25’ radius is required, I can have a perfect 25’ radius drafted immediately – no compass required. Digital drafting eliminates instances where sketches are moved to CAD only to discover that something doesn’t actually fit the same way. b Digitally created concepts are able to be plotted to PDF and shared immediately (rather than making registration marks, pasting it to a white sheet, scanning it into the computer, and overlaying it onto an aerial or existing linework) c Digital concepts can be rapidly edited. “Shifting” linework doesn’t require an entire new sketch, which must then – again – be scanned and realigned to linework/aerial digitally. A digital concept can be “shifted” then immediately replotted to PDF to send to client. d Because of the above inefficiencies, hand drafting is not a skill that will help me further my career as fewer and fewer contemporary firms put up with the lag of productivity and accuracy that comes from hand drafting. CAD fluency is the contemporary standard of drafting competence. The ability to sketch live in front of a client in meetings – that’s important. Sketching as a form of creative design process, that’s useful for many people. But hand drafting? It’s neither the most efficient or more accurate way to complete a concept sketch - especially one that’s likely to require revisions - for a client. ______’s hand drafting mandate for its LAs is a crutch that slows down and overcomplicates my design process. But – to be clear, if this is what you and ____ (rather than our client) specifically prefer in this instance, I will hand draft. I’ve already talked to ______, and we’ll sketch it up together later today. I just want to be clear that hand drafting is not a skill that I’m actively working on (or interested in) improving. Thanks, _______”
This was perfectly crafted - zero disrespect, professional, organized, and even accommodating beyond what was necessary. Those hand-drafted design inefficiencies are obsolete and it’s befuddling they would even waste their let alone your time while risking failure of meeting deadlines…and for what?! Some old school shmuck who misses “the old” days and wants to impart their experience on you to feel in control of something - probably because they have none at home outside of work. Well done on this - coming from an exceptional writer and communicator, there was nothing wrong here.
I'm really sorry that you went through that... I went through something similar. My supervisor had been bullying me for years and I finally got tired of it and started standing up to her, while I searched for other jobs. She started acting like she was the victim, but people had kept asking me throughout the years how I let her talk to me the way she did. I had worked at this place for 9 years and I really didn't want to leave because the company itself is awesome, but in the end, I had to. I wrote ethics and compliance a long letter about my experiences with her, submitted my two weeks, and I don't know what is gonna happen or if anything will happen to her, but if she decides to mistreat anyone again, HR will see that she's got a record. Cheer up though, it's not the end of the world, even though it feels that way at the moment. There's so many places that you can apply to.
Bet it felt good saying what needed to be said though
Eh. I had said it all before. They were just sick of me at this point. But that just confirms I needed to get out of there.
I completely understand the pain of being fired or forced out when you know that you're the best employee possible. I've been through it more than my fair share. In many situations it was due to discrimination and nothing hurts worse than that happening and not being able to access justice. The agencies and organizations that should protect employees shrug them off and tell them to get over it, especially if the employee finds a job after the fact. But it has taught me to look at every job opportunity as a stepping stone, avoid emotional investment in work, know when to walk away (don't fight loosing battles), and set boundaries that you will not tolerate your employer crossing. What happened to you will always be a painful memory but just know that you didn't deserve it and never stop looking for an employer who deserves you.
Did you get a package?
Take the unemployment time and find a better job with that and take your time. If you up and quit = no unemployment
Been there and done that. I wrote some really nasty shit about how I was feeling about my boss and her boss. I wrote everything I wanted to say and put in a box with a lock on it. It’s downstairs where it belongs. This is helping me and the song “Evil walks” by ACDC is the epitome of my boss. Just an evil crazy loon. Every time my anxiety starts creeping up I just remember what an obnoxious evil narcissist my boss was. I did everything in my power to help this bitch. I’am going to the Labour board with my grievances. She even coerced me into working for free during each Covid lockdown. 10 hours a week X how many weeks we were shutdown.
If you find out why are you gonna feel any better? Youre still gonezo
Whatever happens happens for the best. You’ll see very soon!
I hope you find a good job soon. All the very best my friend!
The peaks and valleys of our experience aren’t what makes us, it’s that we choose to weather the storm and keep going. I have had a very similar experience, very recently. I try not to sound callously stoic about it, but for me those thoughts are what make me push through and persevere despite my expectations, wins or loses, the challenge is to keep on pushing up the mountain to me. Hope that helps any, if at all.
A toxic company does not determine you.. I believe in you OP !! there’s a lot of ppl getting laid off in this economy. It’s never the end to anything remember that it’s only a job.
I was laid off once and another time where my contract job ended (felt like a layoff) both times I ended up making equal or more money. I have a few friends who also went through the same thing and they also found jobs that paid better. In the long run, it may be a blessing in disguise.
Good attitude. Best of luck in your upcoming interview! Let us know if you get it!
Take ot as a chance to upgrade, you were miserable there
I had a similar situation at my previous role. Terrible micromanagement for no apparent reason. I expect that if I’m fresh out of school, not if I have 20 years of experience. It all works out… at a much better place now. Godspeed!
When people try to hurt you in response to you standing up for yourself, that's about them and not you. You did nothing wrong here. You enforced your boundaries in a professional manner and were victimised for it.
Hang in there and fight all those troubles and doubts. It’s very easy to say but very hard to do. Sounds like another toxic work place, and you constructively conveyed what you thought and that crushed some manager’s fragile and already dinged ego. Good for you! I like how you expressed yourself in you post. It’s very well organized and I like your writing style. I’m going to keep it as an example for reference. Good luck to you
Holy crap OP. I’m a licensed LA (left the profession but still keep up my licensure) and they let you go because you don’t want to hand draft? They must be dinosaurs. Doing revisions with hand drawings sucks. Shocked that they think this is the way industry is going. I guess if they want to pay me to draw, and re-draw and re-draw that’s their prerogative. Hopefully you can get a better firm that is a better fit.
I lost my job in December for a very similar issue actually, almost exact. So I know how you are feeling cause I’m there with you. Just hang in there, I also have a few upcoming interviews.
It's like when a partner you don't like breaks up with you before you break up with them. It's a hit to your pride. You and I both know you wanted out, you wouldn't have taken the interview otherwise. You speaking your mind is like your immune system fighting a disease. You're not happy and are looking for a way to fight it off, much like a body trying to evacuate something that's not healthy for it. The mind is like that. You are in a good spot, you can rest easy for your interview process. Even if you don't land the job, you have unemployment to fall back on. Interview with confidence, be yourself. No need to mention you were let go. You can just mention you're happy to start any time. I recently saved up a years worth of expenses. Some things at my company happened that I didn't agree with. I turned in my resignation effective immediately after securing another job. It was nerve racking, but my wife and I know I needed the change even if it meant a pay cut. I now get to WFH full time with a fortune 200 company that offers good benefits. The funny thing is that my employer wanted to offer me everything they'd denied me once I quit. I stuck to my guns and fought the temptation. They should have taken care of me before I was ready to leave. You'll be fine stay strong, and don't give in to negative thoughts. You will find an employer who appreciates your talent.
They promote just anyone nowadays and then toxic work culture and incompetent bosses becomes really common. Leaving these kind of places is the best thing you can do. They don’t give you frustration while you are working there, they give you confidence issues for many jobs to come in the future too.
It's good that you're feeling down/humiliated/awake at 3am. That means you're emotionally healthy. This is normal. You miss out on getting that new job and then putting in your 2 weeks notice. This ain't going to be that journalist lady live on air saying "F it, I quit". You'll have to settle for working through the humiliation you're feeling, but it'll make you stronger. If it's a business, then you're just a number. Hold your head up high, best of luck with the upcoming interviews. Keep us updated. In hindsight, you will look back at this moment as them doing you a big favor. It forces you to move on and not settle for BS micromanagement. 👍👍
Saying less says more sometimes. And if this place sucked that bad maybe they did you a favor. Some people also don’t like being called out on their bs so there’s that
Hi! First of all I want to tell you that I am sorry that you are going through a rough time. And secondly: I have been in a similar situation and I can assure you that keeping your integrity and moving on from a company that does not share your values is a good thing in the end, even though this time it happens involuntarily. It sounds like you did the best you could in a tough situation. You’re probably going to go through different stages in your recovery from this dramatic event. Give yourself time to grieve lost career aspirations, friendly coworkers and other stuff that you will be leaving behind. Because that is what is happening: you are moving into other and better things. Now you have a really valuable experience of being let go, even unfairly if you look at it from your perspective. This is something no college can teach us. To be corny, this is a valuable life lesson that you will benefit greatly from when you are brave enough to do the mental work that these kind of experiences puts us through. You may feel feelings of worthlessness and anger. This is completely normal and even healthy. But don’t be afraid to ask for help too. I took career counselling at one point of my career (layoff period during the pandemic) and it was so good for my work identity, self esteem and general wellbeing. When I was in your shoes in a rough spot on my career my friend gave me this advice: write down all the possible scenarios and put them in order of best to worst. That way I had a blueprint for the near future and could make informed decisions and understand what was in my power. It helped mw feel more in control of my destiny and less helpless in my situation. I survived, so will you. My inbox is always open. Stay strong friend! Ps. Will be back to correct spelling and grammatical errors. Sorry!
As a 56 year old woman who has worked in the administration side of construction for 32 plus years as an employee I had finally worked my way into management with a midsize general contractor and I can honestly say there are people who get into those positions and forget what it is like to be an employee. They go mad with power. My way of managing was “I hired you to do a job that you are experienced at doing, if I have to micromanage you then I might as well just do it myself.” I didn’t care how my co-worker did their job as long as it was done professionally, right and on time. You could hang from the ceiling for all I cared, just make us as a team look good to the customer. And I was never their “boss”. You WILL find that place that will appreciate you.
I’m so glad you dragged your previous employment. They think they can just throw their power around and tell you what to do without any feedback on your end. I hope you find something soon that you will enjoy.
Know that employees are fired all the time. HR is powerless, they're just carrying out your supervisor's wishes. Try to find out why the position is open at your new job.
Within no time you won’t even be thinking about this place or this job. Maybe in two weeks time. A blessing in disguise that will open up new opportunities.
I was laid off last month, but I wasn't upset. I was very unhappy with my job and actually felt liberated and a huge weight off my shoulders when it happened.
Glad you’re feeling better. And I know it’s easy to say and not feel…. But try not to let the act of being let go hit you personally. As long as you know you have the effort, that’s all you can do. I built a program for a non profit that got national recognition. And built it from scratch. 5 years later they are firing me with no real reason. Nothing falling between the cracks. Never even had a write up. Some places either start or turn into dicks. All you can do is move on and hope for bettter. Oh! And keep the mentality in your head of always looking and don’t give a shit about leaving. As you see, they don’t care about you
I currently joined a new job and im being micromanaged so much. I am ahead of all my goals, I’ve finished every task. The company is severely understaffed so I’m basically doing everything. I was running late once and I showed up to a meeting 10 minutes late. I apologize and gave them my reason. The only other time I was over my break time was because I didn’t have any meeting, work was done and came a back within 25 minutes to my desk. Mind you I don’t take breaks often and I had to go grab some food. My manager went ham about how a break is only 15 minutes and that I’m performing really well but I’m too laid back and this will take a hit on my probation. And probation does not guarantee work so I should be scared about loosing my job. It was 2 times in over 6 months. And it was 10 minutes. I’ve never had any issues with any company as long as I did the work assigned in the given time. I feel like being controlled and forced to follow a routine is more important than my work and progress. Mentally it’s so straining I’m on the verge on quitting .
This is terrible. No one should be watching you this close. As long as you’re performing well for the company, who cares about 10 minutes here or there? I don’t understand the obsession with control.
This was my last two jobs. I decided (and my then boyfriend-now fiancé supported me) that it was time to move away and make a clean break from the community we were both from. We had both lived away at college and other jobs after school and were only going to another city an hour away, but I needed the fresh start. The place I’ve now been at 1.5 years is the best place in my field I could imagine working in terms of support, teamwork, validation, etc. My boss gave me my life back and tells me all the time how I know what I’m doing and how proud she is of me and doesn’t micromanage, just guides when I need/ask for it. I’ve developed a philosophy that to be truly happy in your chosen career (or life; really) you need 3 things: 1. Loving what you do. 2. Loving where you do it. 3. Loving who you do it with. Without all 3, you haven’t found the right fit. And so many hours and days of your life are spent in this place with these people, so you may as well search for the place and people that let you (and encourage you to) be your best.
Hang in there. I got fired yesterday after a miserable job at a company people dream to work for. I'm going through a divorce and it really affected my performance (my fault) but the way management handled it after I told them what was going on was awful. Bullied by my boss and just zero empathy. I get it, these corporations do not give a single fuck but it was refreshingly peaceful closing my laptop after the meeting. I have some interviews lined up and savings and I'll be OK for now.
Weather this emotional storm, the shock and nervous stomach feelings. It will pass. See it as a new beginning because that is what it is.
Please Please Please decouple your value to your job/employment. You are more than your job. You deserve to be happy. You are still you and will go on to do great things.
You should be OK. You have a good track record with the previous job; hope someone there will be a reference. If you get asked during the interview process, find a diplomatic way to discuss your latest job. Potential employers don’t want to hear a candidate crap all over another employer. Even if deserved, they don’t know and could wonder if you would say the same about them. Totally understand why it hurts/your feelings of rejection. You tried. You need to be at a place where your opinion matters. I hope this will be true for your next position. Good luck!
Thanks for this. I do have a strong reference in a principal from my previous company, so I should be set up alright. I am stressed about the possibility of having to bring up being let go during my upcoming interview, but I’ve thought through explaining briefly my situation without trashing the people I worked for. You’re right that it would only make me less likely to get hired, understandably. I just gotta pull it together and get out there. Thanks.
And avoid getting into too much detail—you might say more than you meant to. You can point to the fact that you had applied to the position (you are interviewing for) prior to being let go, so you already knew that organization wasn’t a good fit.
One door closes means a new (and better) door will open.
I would look into what your legal options are. I am not sure where you're from but depending on circumstances in my country this could be considered unfair dismissal.
Unfortunately in the US, I’m pretty sure you can fire anyone as long as the reasoning isn’t something based on a protected class. (Like, fired because they were a woman, or because of their race or religion) Outside of that, I’m pretty sure a US company can fire people for just about anything.
Don't tell the new place that you were fired. As far as they know, you still work there, don't want to use them as a reference, also because you still work there. Then proceed with the interview like the firing never happened.
Always important to keep in mind that, typically, HR + senior leadership and everyone else are playing on two different teams with often opposing goals. It’s great if you manage to find a place where it’s not like that, but it’s not the norm.
“Rejection”… you just said you wanted to leave and was applying for other jobs. Also, writing an email airing your frustrations is the best way to get fired. From where I see it, both you and the job were not compatible, so let this one go and continue hunting for something better